VO BOSS

Are past mistakes holding you back from achieving voice over success? Join Anne & Lau on this episode of VO BOSS, where they discuss how to turn missteps into valuable learning experiences. From investing in a voiceover demo to navigating social media mishaps, discover the importance of apologies, accountability, and self-compassion in personal and professional relationships. Learn how admitting to our mistakes can elevate connections with others and avoid the pitfalls of impulsive responses on social media. Tune in to embrace growth, mindfulness, and self-compassion on the journey towards success. Bosses, don't let past mistakes hold you back. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey, hey everyone. (audio blip) VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my BOSS co-host, Lau Lapiedes. Hey, Lau. Lau: Hey everyone. Anne: Yay! Lau: So good to see you, An Happy Saturday. Anne: Yes, Lau, happy S-- (audio blip) Lau, guess what happened to me this week? Lau: What happened, Anne? Anne: Lau, I made a mistake. Lau: Oh no. You never make mistakes. Anne: Well, no Lau, actually, I make mistakes all the time. (laughs) Lau: Don't believe her -- Anne: (audio blip) Do. And you know what? Of course, nobody wants to make mistakes, but I'm glad I made this mistake because I learned a whole lot, Lau about how I can maybe not make that mistake again, or take (audio blip) when I was making the mistake and make it better and improve it. And I get students that come to me, new students that come to me quite a bit, that say, gosh, I wish I knew then what I know now. And I would never have done that. I'd like to address that because let's take one example. One example is students that come to me and say, I never should have made that demo. And I had somebody listen to it and they said, no, no, you were not ready to make that demo. And they just come to me with all (audio blip) shame and remorse, and I get that, but I don't think it's worth anyone beating themselves up over, because honestly, we learn, you know, if we always take a look at what we do in life, and we learn and we made a mistake, (audio blip) so you know, so much better (laughs). And you can then progress and move forward. And so I want all of those students who ever, ever came to me or ever came to Lau and said, oh God, I wish I hadn't have done that. I spent all this money and it was just a waste of my time. And (audio blip) don't beat yourself up over it. Because honestly, I think that there is such a value of information, just such a value in it. And consider it, like we were talking before, Lau, consider it an investment in the real grand scheme of things. (audio blip) been a few thousand dollars. But if I were to sit back and look at where have I spent a few thousand dollars in my lifetime, house, car, those kinds of things, I mean, honestly, consider an investment. Lau, what are your thoughts? Lau: I couldn't agree (audio blip). I would even argue is there such a thing as a mistake? Because when you really think about that, we give a name and label to something that happens from us, to us, with us that is superbly uncomfortable and then (audio blip) toward us in our perception, it punishes us. But was that thing an actual mistake? Anne: Sure. Lau: I don't know how to answer that because I do feel there's lessons to be learned in the process of the, I'll give it air quotes, the mistake (audio blip) more painful than others, but really, really necessary as we journey through life. Like if we didn't do that, we wouldn't know what rewards really are. Anne: Right. Lau: We wouldn't know how to really build our business. We wouldn't really know that. Right? So comparatively speaking, (audio blip) and oftentimes as you know, when you make those mistakes, they're fantastic. Like you're hired for them, you're celebrated for them. It's like, whoops, I did that in my business. How could I have thought that? Oh my, wow. People love that. They want that. Right? (audio blip) I would venture to say, take a step back and really say what is a mistake and what are the mistakes in the mistake that make it a mistake? That's really important. But getting back to your investment on demo, I'm with you all the way. I do not (audio blip) corner and cry over a demo. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Process, process, process. Your first demo, your first demos -- Anne: Yes. We all started somewhere. Lau: They're never gonna be super, super high level pro because guess what? You don't have the experience yet. You're moving towards getting that experience. (audio blip) Like if you went to college or grad school or trade school or you were an apprentice, you are working on working. So the working to get the working is never a waste of time. It's always, what are you putting into it? What are you getting out of it? How has that (audio blip) work for you? Rather than saying, oh, everything's got to be about that one demo. It just isn't. It's like a work in progress. Your whole life, your whole business is a work in progress. Anne: Right? And it's very much like you don't know what you don't know. And so you cannot (audio blip) blame yourself for something that you didn't know. Now, maybe if you're just starting out and you're lucky and you're listening to our podcast, the BOSS podcast, you'll hear this discussion and you'll say, oh, okay, so maybe I'll wait a little bit before I make that demo. (audio blip) truly believe that sometimes when you make an expensive mistake, it's a mistake that you are not apt to repeat ever again or quickly. That is for sure. I know sometimes, like I used to pay money to a personal trainer, right? Because it was the only way I knew (audio blip) go and work out right and do the things that I really needed to do to move forward and to progress forward and to really improve myself. So in a way I was like, yes, I'm gonna pay to kind of get a little beaten up. So, it's okay. It's okay. And I just don't (audio blip) into this to, to ever feel regret about anything because there's always those lessons as you mentioned that you learned. Maybe you learned about a process that did not work for you. Right? And so now you'll move forward and you will (audio blip) to work with longer so that you can improve upon your performance before you go ahead and record another demo. And again, like I said, when it comes to demos on our performances, we're always improving. We're like those continuous students, like the never-ending student (audio blip) learning our craft and enhancing and improving it. And so at any point, you're never quite as good as you'll be today. So unless you're gonna make a demo every single day to keep yourself refreshed on that, I would say take it with a grain of salt. Take it as a lesson. And (audio blip) also maybe it was a demo that did not represent the genre very well, or it was maybe a, a demo that didn't have today's standards or current relevant scripts. Or it just might have been something (audioblip) done it and had somebody listen to it and they commented on it. Guess what? That's another learning experience. So. Lau: And guess what? Doing a demo as one example is like a little work of art. It's a vocal portfolio. Anne: Yeah. Lau: So there is artistic vision. There's (audio blip) no matter who you're working with, whoever your team is of engineers and coaches, some care, some don't care. Some are experts, some are not experts, and there's everything in between. It's like working with an expert painter or working with an expert dancer. There's all (audio blip) that go into unlocking your potential, unlocking your talent. Maybe they're great at that, maybe they're not great at it. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Maybe they're mediocre. Whatever the case may be, it really is on us you meaning you to put (audio blip) to your process. Because when you walk away, it's your process. It's not really theirs. Anne: Right. Lau: They're not gonna claim it anymore. It's your process to say, what did I do? Did I put it in time? Anne: Sure. Lau: Did I rehearse? Did I practice? Did I take it serious (audio blip)? Did I do all the due diligence boxes and check that off to bring out the best outcome? Or was I learning how to do that? I wasn't quite there yet. As a lot of people in school, in college, in grad school; sometimes they don't show up. Sometimes they fail tests. Some (audio blip) and they're learning how to discipline themselves, how to commit to a process and who they're identifying as a talent. What is a talent, what is a business person, what is a VO? I mean, they're learning all of that. So you gotta give your (audio blip) to learn. Anne: Yeah. Lau: You can't be perfect. You can't know everything. There's gotta be space. And as you said, we're students over a lifetime. Anne: Yeah. Lau: We're not just students for a first demo. We're students. And if those of us who own a business, and I know many listeners own a business, you are always learn (audio blip) that one. Just when you think you know as much as you need to know, then the whole script flips on you. Anne: Yeah. And you know, I don't mean to make light of people's investments, so I don't want any of the BOSSes out there to think that I'm making light of a few (audio blip). But I will say that when you compare that to, you've beaten yourself up over and over and over again. And maybe it even deters you from getting into what it is that you've always wanted to do in your lifetime (audio blip) that's a higher price in a lot of ways. And I think that of course, before you make any investment in anything, not just voiceover, I think that you have to come at it with an educated point of view. You have to educate yourself as much as possible before you make that inve- (audio blip). Just, I think if we all kind of take that lesson, right, with anything, I think it at least helps us, so that we know that we've investigated what other common mistakes in voiceover. Maybe people buy the wrong equipment, right? Or they (audio blip) doesn't suit their voice. Well, this is why you can return a lot of things. So if you made the smart investment, if you've educated yourself and purchased with a vendor that allows you to return within a certain amount of time, then you have that option. If it does not work (audio blip) that you can then return it to get your money back. And there's always selling. I mean, I made many mistakes with my equipment, especially my travel equipment. I tell this story over and over again. I bought every new gadget that there was that was tiny and small so that (audio blip) I could have a convenient, tiny little mic. And whenever I would go, I could never get it to sound worth anything. I could not do that. And I spent so much money. But here's the deal. I spent the money, but then I was able to sell the equipment that if you (audio blip) I was then able to sell it or donate it. And so lesson learned. Lau: Lesson learned. And there are even much more sophisticated mistakes that we think we're making. And that is in human communication. Now, I won't even say the business of it. I'll say the com- (audio blip), that's in the emails you're sending and receiving. Anne: Oh yes. Lau: That's in your invoicing, that's in your sales, you're building of rapport when you're live at a conference. All of that stuff has layers of nuance and layers of sophistication to it. (audio blip) if you are present and focused, when you've said something that just doesn't land right on someone. Doesn't mean you're offending them. It doesn't mean it's inappropriate. It just means you're not tracking, you're not on the same track. And how do I fix that? How do I -- Anne: Yeah. Lau: — turn around and pivot from that. I don't believe it's a mistake, but in your perception, it feels uncomfortable. Like, why did I say that? Or why did I respond in that way? Or how come I didn't get back to them in seven days when they wanted me to get back to them in a day? Anne: Right. Lau: You know what I like to do, Anne? Very uncomfortable. And then I learned how to do it. Just fix it right away. Anne: Yes. Lau: Just like you're gonna gimme a shot at the doctor's, you're gonna do whatever that's uncom- — just do it. Just do it. Don't hold off and think about it. Right? Anne: And when you do it, be human about it. Something you said didn't land right. Say, for me, I'm always like, you're human. Right? I'm sorry. Lau: Yeah. Anne: Maybe I should have said it this way. Lau: Yeah. And you know what? When I apologize like that, which I do a lot because I perceive that I did something wrong -- Anne: Yeah. Lau: Oftentimes the response is, please (audio blip) sorry, Lau. You were busy and rightly so, and I'm not first on the list. And sometimes it brings out the humanity in other people, when you're, you're not lowering yourself. You're actually hiring your vibration by saying, I am a (audio blip) I'm a person that is far from perfect. Anne: Yes. Lau: But I'm a person that wants to connect with you authentically. So if you can understand and forgive that perception of something that wasn't done that was comfortable for you, then we can continue on. And nine times outta 10, they're not(audio blip) of it. They love you for it because if you're being real with them. You're not saying, well, I didn't know, I didn't do anything wrong. I'm taking accountability. I'm not a -- no. I want them to feel like I'm like you. I'm not better than you. I'm like you in a lot of ways. And that means (audio blip) oh. Anne: Right. Lau: Like what the right thing is right now. Could that be a mistake? I don't know. That's all in the perception, I think, is that a mistake or am I learning from that? Are they learning from that? Anne Right, right. Lau: Are we deepening the relationship and communication? I'd like to think we (audio blip) really a mistake. It's more of a mishap. Anne: Yeah. And if there is a mistake that has been made like that, and you have offered an apology or an explanation, or your attempts to fix it did not fix it, then I think sitting back and then just trying to take a deep breath, and (audio blip) maybe that wasn't meant to be in this particular timeframe, or maybe it just wasn't meant to be. I mean, I've had relationships where I don't know what happened. I've tried to go and be human and apologize and just work (audio blip) just didn't work out. Lau: And that's okay. Anne: And that's okay. I mean, that's going to happen. And I think what we need to really focus on is not necessarily the fact that it happened, but how can we move forward? How can we grow? How can we feel okay? I think (audio blip) oh, I either feel bad or I feel ashamed, or I feel stupid for a lot of that type of emotional baggage and beating up, that's where I want to feel better about myself. What do we do then? Lau: Well, I'm a big fan of express. I think expression is so, so important. It sounds a little silly to say that because our whole field is about expression, but so much of the time, especially as performers, will mask up who we really (audioblip) official thing versus say, let me quickly get in touch with how I'm really feeling, and maybe have a sounding board. So if I have a few safe people that I can talk to about it, that can sound me out quickly. Like, get me in my right mind again, so to speak. (audio blip) move on from it quickly rather than holding onto it and letting it fester. And I find solving it relieves the stress. It relieves the heaviness. Like, why did that go wrong? I was terrible. It was a -- no, let's just fix it and let me talk about it and express it to the right (audio blip) who can offer me sound advice, no pun intended. Sound advice. Anne: Yeah, yeah. And I think also, when we're talking about perceived mistakes in either face-to-face networking or relationships, but also on social media, did I post something? Oh my gosh, that was (audio blip). I can't erase it. I can't take it back. I, I can't delete it. Lau: Yep. Anne: How do I backpedal, or how do I recover from that? I think that the written word, we've all been using it long enough that we have to approach that type of communication with a little bit (audio blip) forethought. Right? Lau: Yeah. Anne: A little more thoughtfulness before we type, before we press that enter key, just stop, take a breath. I've had to really learn to do that in the last 10 years, I would say. Because there have been times on social media where I've been triggered (audio blip) to like type something is a fast response and, and I literally have to just get up and walk away. And I find that that is the best cure for me is to get up and walk away. Take a big deep breath. And a lot of people, as you know, have chosen, they, they get off the platform for (audio blip), and I think sometimes that's a very smart thing to do in terms of before you type something that you might not feel good about later on. Lau: Agreed. Anne: And there are ways though too, if you have to try to type your way back into good graces, I (audio blip) ways that you can do that. But you have to be careful. And sometimes it's best to just get up and walk away. And then give it a few hours, a few days, whatever, take a breath and then go from there. Really. Lau: I agree. I think the time that we spend beating ourselves up (audio blip) mistakes is time not well spent. It's really, if you wanna reflect, if you wanna say, I'm gonna journal about this, I'm gonna express this, and work it through, and come to something that's meaningful, something that's useful, and something that is potentially fixable, that's (audio blip) versus sitting there and stewing in, oh, I'm upset, I'm uncomfortable. It was awful. And they don't feel -- and oftentimes, here's the funny thing, you and I spoke about this recently. Oftentimes that thing, that circumstance is turned around quicker than you think (audio blip) together again. All of a sudden they're asking you about whatever is, if it never happened, and you think, wow, did we have that conflict? Wow. Were they upset about this? Because all of a sudden they're coming to me for something else. So sometimes our perception as creatives is (audio blip) proportion. It's very histrionic, it's dramatic. It's larger than life. And someone on the other end does not perceive it that way oftentimes. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: It's much lighter and less to them. Now if they go over the top, and they're crazy in histri- (audio blip), you're noticing that you're saying, okay, there's a lesson in that this may not be the right client relationship, colleague or friend. Anne: Sure. Lau: Because this circumstance does not warrant that response. Anne: And I think you bring up such a good point, especially when we are dealing with (audio blip) to us in our voiceover bubble, right? Lau: Yes. Anne: We have certain things that are very important to us, right? Things that like I need to hear back. When will I get paid? All of those. There's lots of those things. When in fact, a lot of times your client (audio blip) things on their plate. And so if you're not hearing back any feedback, if you're not getting paid within a certain amount of time, there are usually things that are going on that we are very unaware of. And I know that a lot of times, I'll have to even sit back and just (audio blip) -- there are some clients, believe it or not, that you think you didn't get paid and that was a mistake, and you wanna make sure that that is made right. But in reality, they have a 90-day net terms. And so really I think that it's one of those things that if you can (audio blip) and communicative, that will absolutely help anything that might lead to a mistake, or you just saying something that, or accusing that they haven't paid you and it's unjust. I think that that is something that we all need to just sit back, take a break (audio blip) and communicate. Lau: Thank you for saying that one, Anne. That's brilliant. Don't assume the worst in people. Anne: Yes. Lau: Assume the best in people. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And even if it is the worst, live in that great river that in Egypt we all love. And that's "de Nile," a little bit in denial. Willie Wonka land and Wizard of Oz teaches us something. It's like, assume people are good. They're not evil, they're not out to get you. They're busy, they're crazy, they're forgetting, they're this or that. Now what if they are pulling something into (audio blip) what? It's okay. Forgive them, move on. It taught you something. It taught you don't work with them. That's what it taught you. It taught you to look for signs in others that they taught you what those signs are of danger, of unsafety (audio blip) ever. God forbid, nothing serious happens to your person, if they're cheating you outta money or whatever. It's a bad thing. It's not to lessen or lighten that. And it's a terrible feeling to feel victimized in that way. But move ahead of it and say, okay, that made me feel bad (audio blip) and unethical, but what did I learn in that, that I can then install in my business, in my tactics, in my profession, and teach others so that that doesn't happen as much as possible? It happens once in a while, but we can alleviate it (audio blip) in the signs of it. Anne: And you know what, Lau, in my over 15 years of working in voiceover, I have never not gotten paid. And so always trusting the good in people. And also, when I vet my clients, I do have a, a certain set of standards that I (audioblip) make sure that there is somebody at the other end that I'm communicating with. And it's not just a person through email that is inquired, how much will this job cost? Or can you do this job by tomorrow? Here it is. I have policies that I have in place where I demand payment upfront (audio blip) clients that are new. And what's so interesting is when I have that in my terms of services, that I demand full payment upfront, I get it. (laughs)I've gotten paid within the first five minutes of securing a job before I've even recorded it. (audio blip) I've been very fortunate, I would say, but I also have been what I consider to be, well, I've taught myself to be savvy in terms of who my clients are, in making sure that I'm gonna be working with someone that is going to reciprocate. If I provide (audio blip) they will reciprocate and give me payment. And so thankfully and gratefully, I can say that I've not encountered any mistakes because I think I've always been open with my communication, and I think that's an important thing. And had I not been open (audio blip) communication, I would've found out right away things might be different. Lau: And that's experience. That's time. It's being seasoned, it's experience. And it takes most people, including myself, time to work through that, learn that, (audio blip), see what the best practices are for you. See if you can be a psychologist and really listen to people, watch people, watch for cues. Focus in on it. Don't just get lost in your own head or your own services, your (audio blip). Listen, because oftentimes you can pick up these cues before something bad actually happens. Anne: Yes. Lau: And oftentimes the mistake is simply like, I'm just not paying attention. Anne: Paying attention. Lau: Yeah. Let me be honest. I could have caught that if I was really in (audio blip) with what they were saying and doing. But what I was doing was, and women are notorious for this, I was lying to myself. I was saying, oh, it'll be okay. Oh, that didn't happen. Oh, they mean this. Oh -- I was interpreting it in a whole way that it (audio blip) way, and then when the boom hit, and I said, wow, that really happened, I look back and I say, well, could I have caught that earlier? Most of the time it's yes. Most of the time it's me sugarcoating the situation. So there's that. There's that in that mis- (audioblip) to happen because I need to learn that lesson. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Be good to them, but also don't sugarcoat things too much and see them for what they are when they reveal themselves to you. Anne: Exactly. Exactly. Lau: Right? Oh, fantastic. We're turning into psychologists. (laughs) Anne: Mistakes are good. Mistakes can be very good. Mistakes are learning experiences. And I think really, BOSSes out there, I think to become even better BOSSes, right, we need to make mistakes. We need to learn and we need to grow and move forward. (audio blip) else do we want for our businesses? Right? Lau: There it is. Anne: There it is. Lau: You wanna learn and grow and thrive. And we have to go through that process in order to do it. Anne: Good talk, Lau. Lau: The best, as always. Anne: Ah, you know, BOSS (audio blip) mission, big impact. 100 voices, one hour, $10,000. What is Anne even talking about? Oh, four times a year. By the way. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. All right. Big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You (audio blip) can connect like BOSSes, like Lau and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and go ahead and make those mistakes, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: See you next week. Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne is joined by special guest, Ian Russell, a multi-award-winning voice actor. They discuss his career in the voice over industry, including his journey to success. They talk about the importance of social media and authenticity in character creation. He advises aspiring voiceover actors to be careful not to violate non-disclosure agreements and to use social media to support their profiles. Anne and Ian also discuss the importance of respecting specified ethnicities and the limitations of casting notices. They highlight that authenticity and believability are essential in video game casting, and that having an acting background is a serious advantage. Tune in to hear the full conversation. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: All right. Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to bring very special guest Ian Russell to the podcast. Hey Ian. Yay. Ian: Hey, Anne. Anne: welcome. For those of you BOSSes out there, we'll tell you a little bit about Ian, and then he's gonna continue on telling us about his journey, he is a, a multi-award winning, seasoned voice actor working in commercial, corporate, video games, audiobooks. His voice can be heard for companies including Coca-Cola, MasterCard, Nestle, Heineken, Club Med, Phillips, and a bunch more. He was the recipient of the One Voice Male Voice of the Year 2020 award. And also in that year, he was also best character performance. Is that correct? Ian: Animation, yeah. Anne: And then continuing in 2021, he won Gaming Best Performance for One Voice Awards. And in 2022, the SOVAS Outstanding International Audio Description, Museums and Cultural Sites. Wow. That is fantastic. Ian, so honored to have you here on the show to talk about your journey and your wisdom. So , let's start. Ian: Well, good luck with that. Anne: Well, let's start telling people about your journey. How did you get into voiceover, a little bit about yourself and how you got into voiceover. Ian: It's a long and winding road, which is a Beatles reference, but the first ever voiceover I ever, ever did was for a radio station in Liverpool. And it was a friend of mine worked at the radio station, and they had a pre-recorded interview for Paul McCartney when he bought and set up the Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts in Liverpool. It was his old school. And rather than having a boring interview where it was just Paul McCartney and some radio guy , he asked me. I was, we were in a local acting thing together, and he asked me to be the voice of Paul McCartney's teacher. Anne: Wow. Ian: When Paul McCartney was a kid. So we linked the questions, you know, and it was like, oh yes, that McCartney he was always playing around with a guitar. He'll never amount anything. So it was that kind of -- we made it funny. I didn't even know what voiceover was, but I did it anyway. And it was fun. I didn't get paid or anything. I was doing it for a mate, but I still have the magnetic cassette tape, shows how long ago it was. Anne: Yep. There you go. . Ian: And then 30 years go by, and I get married, and my wife's stumbling around for what she can buy me. And we, because you know -- Anne: What happened 30 years though? That was a long time. Ian: Oh, sorry. I, I went off and got a real job. I was, I was working in sales and sales management in the northwest of England and in Belgium and Holland and in and around Oxford. Anne: So International for sure. Yeah. Ian: Yeah. That's a whole other story, which we could get into another time. But that would use up our 30 minutes, would be nothing left . So anyway, so my wife's like, oh, well what do I buy him for Christmas this year? And I had done a bit of sort of community theater stuff as a young man, just explained with the Paul McCartney thing. And so she found a one day introduction to voiceover. Anne: Uh-huh. Ian: In London. It's a place called the Show Reel. And she bought me that for Christmas 2012. It's 10 years almost to the day. Anne: Wow. Yeah. Ian: And then two years later, we've had the credit crunch and the bank -- I was working for a bank at the time and they were trying to offload people, and I had to reapply for my own job multiple times. And in the end I'm like, I volunteer as tribute . Let me go, you know, I'm done here. I'm older than all these young guys. I don't want to be rushing around half of the UK seeing multimillionaires coming home at night, barely seeing my kids, writing reports 'til midnight, and then doing the same rinse and repeat tomorrow. I'll have a heart attack and die. Let me go. And two years later, they eventually let me go. And so my wife's American and we said, well, what are we gonna do now? ? Well, let's sell everything and move to America. Be near my dad, says my wife. So that's what we did. Anne: I love that. Let's do it. Ian: And I said, well, what am I, what am I gonna do? Anne: Let's sell everything and move. Ian: I'll give that voiceover thing a go. And I went to the guy in London and I said, does anybody get hired for this? And he went, yeah. And I said, would anybody hire me? And he went, I don't see why not. And that was the ringing endorsement that I had to come off and start. So 2014 I started properly, I would say. Anne: Wow. Wow. And so when you started, what was it that -- I assume you, you got coaching, you got a demo, and then you started working, and so you started working and were successful in which genres? Ian: I think I'm a product of the internet age. You know, I live in the metaphorical middle of nowhere. And everything I do is via the internet, pretty much. So I started probably the way a lot of people start. I didn't know anybody and I didn't know anything. I had some experience, life experience that helps for sure, the sales and having done a bit of community theater and all that. But I knew no one and I knew nothing. So I started searching on the internet, and I paid money down to online casting and, and started throwing mud at the wall. And I think in that market you do a lot of explainers. You do a lot of corporate. You do a lot of e-learning, e-sort of things that, that sort of thing. Anne: And of course in the States now, you know, that accent of yours doesn't hurt you. I had a very good friend when I started and she was hired all the time for e-learning. Because I think for us listening, and you gotta have some sort of interesting -- like an American accent is, we hear it all the time. But a British accent might be something that, oh, that makes it more interesting. And so she was high in demand for e-learning and, and those explainers and corporate things. And she was always so wonderfully like natural and conversational about it. And it was just a pleasure to listen to her all the time. And I remember thinking, gosh, I wanna aspire to be that relaxed and that friendly in my voiceovers. And so I can totally see where that just, it lends it. It's also a very large market. And so everybody kind of gets there, and it's a good, good place to start off. And I know a lot of students that I work with, they start off in corporate or e-learning. Ian: Yeah. There's masses of it. And it's relatively easy to find. Anne: Exactly. Ian: You might not get the best rate, but it's relatively easy to find. Anne: Now, you won these awards, but these awards were not for corporate or e-learning. It was for gaming and character performance. And so let's talk about, 'cause I know when people start out, they're very concerned about you know, what's my niche? Like, where do I start and how do I know what I'm good at? You evolved into becoming an award-winning voice talent in gaming and characters. Ian: Yeah, I know. Anne: So let's talk about that. Ian: How does that happen? Anne: Yeah. How does that happen? Ian: I'm gonna say I got lucky, but we all know that that's hard work meets preparation and all of that. But in 2015, so a year after I'd started, I booked a role in a significant video game called Payday 2. And the role is utterly -- it's this South African mercenary. He speaks like that, he's Locke, his name is Locke. And I have been performing Locke for Starbury Studios for seven years now. Anne: Oh wow. Ian: And it was the performance of Locke that won me the video game award last year. And we're still making content. And at the end of this year, we have Payday 3 coming up. Anne: Ooh. Get ready, BOSSes. Ian: And so there's a lot of chatter around who's gonna be in Payday 3. You know what it's like with a lot of -- Anne: NDAs. Ian: -- casting for voiceover. It's -- Anne: You can't tell -- Ian: -- NDAs -- Well, well, if I knew something, I'd be able to tell you, but voice over casting often happens right at the end. So nothing, I can't say anything. I don't know anything. So. Anne: So seven years. Ian: I'm like a mushroom. Anne: Wow. Ian: Yeah. So, so that was my first video game thing. And I think a lot of younger folk, they're growing up now with video games and animation and it's a very aspirational genre for people to get into. And I think I got one, and I'll keep the story very short, but Locke, the character, has his own Twitter account, which now has almost 12,000 followers. Anne: Do you have input into that account? Ian: It's mine. Anne: Okay. Okay. Ian: It's all mine. Anne: Now, was that something that maybe was requested of you through an agent or the company or -- Ian: No. Anne: -- you just created it? That's a very interesting marketing um Ian: Well, it was suggested to me because I went on a charity stream as Locke for Payday, and the guys that were running it said, you might want to set up a separate account because you don't want your personal account flooded with teenage boys -- Anne: Yeah, that makes sense. Ian: -- swearing at you. Frankly. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Ian: Asking you about Locke, you know, what's your favorite color, that kind of thing. So I set up a separate Twitter account for him then; that was 2017-ish. And that, that's kind of just grown from there. And I don't just use it for Locke. I use it for Locke. But I, all my video game stuff I promote on there because they're all video game players. So they're interested. Anne: I love that I'm talking to you about this right now because I wanna know, is the content monitored at all by the game company or the people that hire you at all? Or if you were to say something that maybe wouldn't be appropriate for your character, I would imagine that that's kind of a line that you walk. Ian: For sure, it is. I'm pretty sure there have been several occasions where I've written something, and I've had the wherewithal to go, no, don't do that. Don't say that. That would be silly . The only thing that Starbury said is, because they own the character, they own the IP of the character, that I can't monetize it for myself. I have run charity fundraisers and things like that, but if I'm gonna do anything out of the ordinary, I go through them and say, hey, I'm thinking about about this; what do you think? I don't think they've ever said, no. Anne: That's something that's so interesting for those BOSSes out there that are thinking about getting into video games or character animation. I mean, there really becomes -- it can have a celebrity attached to it, and that becomes more than just voicing. Right? That is voicing. And then also it becomes a marketing effort. It becomes something that is outside of your voiceover persona that is of concern, I would think, for you to make sure that you're not gonna say the wrong thing or make sure you're not gonna do something that spoils any new things coming out or disturbs any NDAs. Ian: Yeah. I just basically assume that everything I've ever done is under NDA until it's public. Anne: That's very wise, very wise. Ian: I really don't, you know. It's just, it's easier to do that than to go, oh, I've been cast, I can't... Anne: I think no matter what we do, we should consider that, even doing a lot of corporate work and e-learning, it really all should be considered. Ian: It is one of the challenges with video games, because whilst we get cast often towards the end of the process, it can be months before the game is actually shipped. And I have got the list, but I've got games coming out this year with my voice in them, and I am burning, burning up with desire to tell people because I am so excited about it. And I just can't. And it's just really, really one of the hard things, you know, that you have to bury that. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. So you got hired for this one game, it became something -- Ian: Yes. So the thing about the Twitter was, so a little while after that I had auditioned for a role in a Warhammer game called Inquisitor Martyr for one of the -- there were only gonna be three player characters. It was one of the player characters. And I got shortlisted, and they asked me for a second audition and I did that. And then they came back and they said, okay, it's down to two people, so can you do a third audition? I'm like, I almost didn't want to know. You know, me or the other guy. And if I don't get it, I know the other guy got it. And I'm like, I was so close. But , what I did say was, look, you must make the right casting choice for your game. But please know that I have a Twitter account with 10,000 followers who are all game players. And I promote any game I'm in on that Twitter account. So I just want you to know that. Anne: I like that. Ian: Don't let that influence your casting decision in any way at all, but know that I've got it. Anne: Hey, that 27 years in sales, I think it served you well. I think it served you well. That's fantastic. I love that. Ian: So I booked that. I don't know that, that's why I would like to think it was just because of my awesome acting talent. But it taught me a lesson that you can use these things to help support your profile, particularly in a high profile thing like animation or like games. You see like the anime guys that are doing that; they're always at cons promoting themselves. And you know that the anime companies are loving that. Because that sells more anime. And the video games is the same. So. Anne: Now would you say that your award also was something you were able to use as a marketing for more characters and more work? Ian: I'm gonna put it the other way around. I can't draw a direct line to -- I won this award in August last year in video games, and then suddenly I get cast in a lot of games. What I think happens, this is what I think happens, a lot of casters in video games are younger people. I mean, there are older ones as well, but they're very tech savvy. And I think that you --they get their auditions in, and if you get shortlisted, and you may not know you've been shortlisted, but they're gonna create a shortlist, and I think they pop over onto Instagram or onto Twitter -- Anne: Oh yeah, absolutely. Ian: Right? Anne: And look at your profiles and -- Ian: They wanna, who's, who is this guy? Is he an umpti or whatever. And they see the awards and they see the interaction with a game community from my case. And they go, oh, he knows what he's doing. He's obviously done it before. You know, and you can say that til you're blue in the face in a pitch proposal, but nobody reads them, I don't think. But when they see it on Instagram or they see it on Twitter, it makes a difference. Anne: Yeah. It's validation for them. Ian: Yeah. It's that whole trust. Anne: Right? That maybe they're picking somebody that has that little bit of trust. Yep. That you've got these experience. Ian: Well, and you think how many -- as, as the game studios get bigger, how many multimillions of pounds they've got invested in a game. And it has to ship successfully, otherwise the company goes pop. Anne: Absolutely. Ian: That narrative story to a two or three talent generally telling the story is a big decision for them. So I do think they check. I have no evidence directly for it, but I absolutely think they check. Anne: Especially I think as a lead character. Right? I mean, there's more responsibility than just the voicing of it, because like I said, there's a persona attached to it, that can be attached to it, and the potential for that character to be able to sell more game, new releases of games. Ian: I kind of figure if I can help sell 10 or 20 or 30 copies of the game, I'm getting out someway towards paying my own fee. Anne: Now -- right? Now, lemme ask you though, in terms of, let's say compensation for games, right? What are your thoughts about that? I mean, do voices for big games get paid better? There's really no royalties, residuals, like that kinda sucks. Ian: No. It does. Yeah. If I was being paid union royalties for Payday 2, I'd be a wealthier man. Anne: Yeah. Ian: It's just the, that's the way it is, Anne. I don't have any control over it. So all I can do is negotiate the best fee I think I can for each individual one. But that's the other thing you've got, if you like AAA games at the top of the feeding frenzy, and they can afford to pay a great deal more. And at the bottom, you've got one guy with a 40-watt light bulb who's making a game, and he wants to get a voice in it, and he just doesn't have the budget. So you have to ask yourself then, is this a game that will further my profile? Do I want my -- you almost, you talk about the celebrity element of it. Do I want my name attached to this game? Anne: Absolutely. Yeah. Ian: And there are games I want attached. There are a lot of games out there that the content is marginal, should we say? Not safe for work is the phrase. . And there is no value to me as a talent in attaching my name to a game like that, because it would impact -- if I wanna be in a big AAA adventure game, I think it taints a little bit, my profile. So I, there are games that I will avoid and I will ask. There's one game I'm in and they have a safe for work version and they have a non-safe work version. And I said, uh, nothing to -- if you want this character in both versions, count me out. But they said, no, we can just write you into this one. So, they did that. Anne: That's great. Look at that. That, you know, and that's interesting that you bring up these things that I never would've thought of, because obviously I'm not doing video games, but I love that you brought that up. Ian: But you could, Anne. Anne: Well, I could if I wanted to. I mean, you did it. So what made you, I'm gonna say, what made you audition for that first game? Did somebody suggest it to you? Did they say, oh, we're looking -- Ian: The Payday one? No, it was an open audition. It said South African mercenary. Anne: And you said, oh, I can do that. Right? Ian: Yeah, absolutely. I was so naive that I thought I could do everything. Anne: So you said, I could do that. Ian: Yeah, I can do that. Anne: Okay. So I have to tell you my little story. Ian: They cast me so great. Anne: That's fantastic. I have to tell you my story. My story was a long time ago, like when I first started, I was on one of the pay-to-plays and they had a audition out, and they said it was for a phone system and it was for a British accent. And I thought, well, I can do that. I was naive , and I got it. And literally I worked for that company for 10 years. And it wasn't until like I actually spoke to somebody on the phone, because we had communicated, got jobs from them all the time onto this. And then it became not a cool thing to do because what accent am I doing? And it started to become that sort of a thing. Well, you're not a native. They didn't know. They said, oh my God, we thought you were native -- Ian: Oh, really? Anne: -- British. And, and it was because I just, I didn't know any better, and I made the mistake. I didn't read that where it said they wanted native. And I said, oh, I can do that. I'll give it a shot. I'll throw my audition in. And I got it. And they employed me for a good 10 years before it was like, oh, now Anne, we just need your English. You know? Not, not your British. So, but it's so interesting that you kind of on a whim just did it. And I think that really speaks to having the confidence to kind of just put yourself out there, and even for things that you don't think you're good at, because they think when people get into this industry in the beginning, they're so concerned about, oh my God, I think I should do this, and I'm no good at character, or I'm no good at -- and I think that really, you don't really know until you try. Ian: Well, let me share another quick story for you. Anne: Sure. Ian: So I auditioned for another game called Road Redemption, which is a motorcycle game. And you drive along the road and you have an iron stick and you're trying to hit other people off their motorbikes. And I auditioned with a sort of a Ray Wins, yeah. Come over, we all gonna hit you with a steel bat, you know, that sort of thing. And I thought, yeah, that'll work. And they decided that they liked my take on the character. So we got together on Skype . Who remembers Skype? And we are chatting, there's three of them, and there's me here. And they're like, what's your Australian accent like? Alright, where's that, right out of left field. Anne: Where'd that come from? Ian: Where'd that come from? And he said, because it's this sort of Mad Max kind of feel to the game. And they said, you know, what's your, and I said, very bad. I said, any Australian will immediately notice. You know, I can put another prawn on a barbie kind of thing. But everybody will, they will know, he's not from Australia anyway. So then we're on Skype and you hear tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. And they've sent me a line on the, in the chat. Read that in your Australian accent, whatever it was. Hey, I'm gonna hit you in me iron bar, mate, you know, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Read that one in your Australian -- yeah, this shrimp's gonna really get you, you know, anyway. And at the end of it, they said, yeah, okay, we're gonna use you for the game. And I said, okay, do you want the Ray Winston thing or do you want this? Oh, we want the Australian thing. Okay. Well, I, like I said, they went, yeah, but Australia's such a small market for us. We're not worried about that. Anne: We're not worried that people in Australia are gonna complain . Well, it's true. Ian: Right. And Locke's the same thing with his South African. And where it led me to in my head was video games, even if they're sort of set in an earth-like environment, are fiction. And I think a lot of game makers now particularly, but certainly back then as well, the acting performance of the character outweighs -- Anne: Is more important. Ian: -- the absolute accuracy of a given accent. Anne: Very interesting. Especially now because now it's a casting thing. Are they casting a native UK or a native Australian? And I think that we are all in a spot, like are we going to audition for that? Ian: Well, with that rider of there are accent issues and there are ethnicity issues. Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Ian: You know, I absolutely would not put myself forward for a British SWANA or MENA or -- I can't say African American because that's American. Anne: Yeah, no, I get, I get that. Ian: British Black, I think. Anne: I think if they're, if they're specifying -- yes. If they're specifying ethnicity, then I think, yeah, absolutely. It's something that we respect. Ian: PGM, person of global majority. Anne: Yep. Absolutely. Ian: That's, that, that works well for me. So there are things that I just will walk past now that maybe 10 years ago would've been acceptable. Anne: Sure. Yeah. Things have definitely changed over the past just a few years. Ian: This could be quite controversial, but I've seen casters ask for a minority ethnicity, and then in the sides it makes reference to, I don't know, America or Great Britain or whatever. And you're like, the ethnicity of of this character does not match the character in the script that you are portraying. And I fear a little bit, what's been the motivation for that? Anne: You know what, interestingly enough, I know that you say that that's a very inter -- I had that with an e-learning, believe it or not, they had the characters, it was a character based e-learning, and they were all different ethnicities. And mine was a mixed ethnicity, but then they said, don't perform it in any kind of accent. And so I thought, well what is that there for then? You know what I mean? And that was a few years back now. I would kind of hope that if they're specifying ethnicity, that they try really hard to get that so that there can be authentic and genuine. Yeah. Ian: Yeah. And at the top end, some casting directors at the top of the market will challenge that sort of thing. They'll go back to the studio, they're in a strong enough position to go back to the studio and go, really? Does that work? Are you sure? And they will challenge that if you like the mass market, often the person hiring the voice and directing the voice is a part of the studio itself. So. Johnny at the back, go and get a voice actor, will you, for this character. I think a lot of that is kind of left to the voice actor to work out for themselves. If you have an any kind of an acting background, and you are auditioning for particularly indie video games, you are already streets ahead because the guys in the studios have never hired anyone before. They don't know who to hire really. It's kind of like, we'll know it when we hear it kind of thing. So if you can make a performance, if you can create a character that's believable within the universe of the game, you are already streets ahead. Anne: It's very interesting that you bring up the casting directors for video games. And you know, it's not necessarily, I think, the talent agents of today that you think of for commercial and broadcast. For video games, you do have to make it authentic and believable. And these people may only be casting for their game, and maybe they've never cast for another game, or they don't have a lot of experience . But that's a great point. And so I think that even more so now, the marketing that you employed, having followers on Twitter, maybe putting your awards on your website so that it's out there and it's known, that definitely has an impact. Because your casting directors may or may not be as experienced as somebody who's casting like 10 commercials a day. Right? That's all they do. That they listen for voices and they cast, whereas games, they're so into their game that they know their characters, and they're listening for just that character to come alive, what they believe the character is like. Ian: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. I had a beautiful testimonial from an indie guy, he put on Twitter, it was on Twitter, his casting notice. And he said, the character is 60 and British from the southwest of England, and he's got early signs of dementia. And he said, but there aren't many older British actors. You know, I've always found it a struggle to cast older actors. So when I wrote to him, I said, , I am 60. Anne: I'm old. . Ian: So anyway, so I got cast of that surprising, surprise me though. He actually cast me as a second character that he was struggling. I said to him, you said you were struggling to cast this. Have you've got anything else that you're struggling to cast? So he sent me, said, yes, I'm struggling to cast this. And he sent it to me, and I thought, I can have a go at that. So I sent it back and I said, do you mean something like this? So I didn't put it as though I was auditioning. I just said, do you mean something like this? And he went, oh great. Was that you? And I went, yes. He went, okay, yeah, you are hired. Anne: I love it. I love it. Ian: I booked two characters. But he said, you might just, it's a real kind of bigging myself up, but you might be, he said, the best actor I've ever auditioned. Anne: Awesome. Ian: And I'm like, aww. Anne: What a wonderful, what a wonderful compliment. Ian: Oh. That is on my Instagram. If you check -- care to go. Anne: Yeah. There you go. . So I love that. Ian: Oh, and I know, what did I wanted to say about, you talked about casting directors. So Bianca Shuttling, who's one of the big casting directors in LA, she goes looking on Instagram. She's very open about that. If she's not got someone in her little pool of people where she goes, she gets -- she doesn't go to agents, she goes to Instagram. Anne: Wow, there you go. Ian: That's where she goes. Anne: There you go. I love that. Ian: There, you learnt it -- you heard it third or fourth here. . Anne: So let me say, because I really think that there's that business savvy that you have, which, BOSSes out there, do not discount the value of being business savvy and marketing savvy. Because I think that that's gonna get you opportunities that otherwise you would not already have. But I do wanna address the acting part of it because you don't just get these roles over and over again if you're not a great actor. So what do you attribute your acting prowess? Have you, just because you've been doing it for years, have you been working with coaches or what do you attribute it to? Ian: I owe it all to my mum. Anne: Ah, okay. Well, there you go. , I'd like to thank my mom and my . Ian: Well, yeah. But in this case, my mom was a very prolific community actress herself. Anne: Got it. Ian: So my first living memory is a smell, and it's not the smell of the grease pain. It's that kind of musty damp wood smell that you get backstage in an old theater. And I have the image that follows it, but -- and I must have been maybe around two or three years old. There's no words involved in this memory. So I basically grew up -- Anne: In the theater. Ian: -- in the backstage. Yeah. One of those things. So it was happening all around me all the time. And I did try and become a proper professional actor as a young man, but I couldn't figure out how to earn money doing it . So. Anne: Same thing when you start off doing voice acting, right? It's kind of hard sometimes. How do I even get money? How do I even get started? Yeah. Ian: Yeah, yeah. It took me another 27 years of sales and management -- Anne: Well, there's your overnight success. Right? And I love telling that to people. They're like, you're so successful. Like, how did you do it? And people think it's overnight, but I think obviously you've evolved so nicely into your success, and it well, well deserved. Ian: And now it pays two -- pays me and I hired -- my wife works for me now. Anne: There you go. Ian: So that Christmas present 10 years ago has employed both of us now. Anne: Yeah. So that 10 year overnight success in voiceover, I mean actually, actually it was a little less than that. Ian: Yeah, that's interesting. Because I got my first nomination, and I was -- Anne: In 2020, right? Ian: -- 2019, I got nominated. I didn't win anything that year, but I thought I was ahead of the curve at that point. You know, and then it all went a bit quieter after that. But the last two years, so years nine and ten, or if you count it from 2014, years seven and eight, really have my career, iIt just looks entirely different now. And it is for the people out there, the BOSSes out there, you know, if you are three, four, and five years in and you're making your way, keep going. Because it is my view that in another two or three years, if you are booking regularly, suddenly something will click, something will change, and bam, away you go. Anne: I was just gonna ask you what's your best advice? But I'll tell you what, that was a golden nugget of wisdom right there . I think so many people, they give up so quickly, and they get their demos, and they're like, well, why am I not working? And they get so frustrated and down and yeah. Ian: Took me three months to get my first booking. I worked for three months for nothing. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Ian, it has been such a wonderful pleasure having you in here. Ian: Are we done? Anne: Yeah. Ian: Already? Anne: Well, I, I can probably talk to you for another three hours, for sure. But I appreciate you coming and sharing your journey. I think ,BOSSes out there, you can learn a lot from this wonderful gentleman. And thank you so much for being here with us today. Ian: You're very welcome, Anne. Anytime. Anne: I'm gonna give a great big shout out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and work like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And then also I'd like to talk to you about 100 Voices Who Care. It's your chance to make a difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. All right, you guys, have an amazing week. Ian, thanks again, and we'll see you next week. Bye-bye. Ian: Bye-Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne and Gillian discuss setting up a home studio space and the necessary equipment for it. A home studio space should have proper sound absorption, emphasizing the need for high-quality audio recording equipment and internet connections for efficiency & consistency in their work. They mention the importance of finding a quiet area with proper sound absorption to minimize noises from in & outside of your home. Anne & Gillian also discuss the importance investing in a good computer, as it is a foundational technology that helps run your voice over business. For more insight and recommendations, tune in! Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey guys, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to welcome back once again to the show audio engineer, musician, creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode for our BOSS Audio series. Hey Gillian, how are ya? Gillian: I am good. How are you, Anne? Anne: I'm excellent. So I thought we had a great conversation about picking your home studio space. And I think we should expand upon that a little bit in this episode and maybe get into a little bit about the equipment that we have into the space for our home studios. Gillian: Yeah, I think totally a necessary point at the conversation because if you didn't listen to last week's episode or whenever it was, the last BOSS audio episode, you gotta go back and catch up because we talked about finding a space in your home for your voice setup. We talked about a little bit about treatment and how to get your space sounding a little bit better, whether you're at the pro level or if you're a beginner. And then we also had the conversation of what's it like to work in a professional studio versus home studio. And now we're gonna dive into getting that home studio, what you need for it and perfecting the sound a little bit. Anne: What you need and what you don't need necessarily, right? Gillian: Yeah, definitely. Anne: Especially because of your experience working in professional studios where I get overwhelmed looking at the equipment there because I'm like, ah, I'm just a voice actor and (laughs). Gillian: I'm just a voice actor. Anne: I'm just a voice actor. I'm not an audio engineer, but I do audio engineering. I know what I know, and I know just what I need to know for that. And I'm very happy, Gillian, to give people like you my business when I need something more from my engineering. So just a little bit backtracking on the absorption factor or the sound factor of your studios. We had talked about finding a quiet area in your home, in an area that maybe isn't near a window or open doorways or places that you can't close off from external noises. So there's external noises coming into your booth, and then we've got the noises within your booth possibly, right, that get reflected back into your microphone. So there's external and then there's internal noises that we want to protect against and have some sort of absorption. And one thing I did wanna mention, and this was a misconception that I had, is that, is there a way to 100% soundproof anything (laughs)? Gillian: Yes. You know, it's so crazy. This is a slight tangent, and I don't know the details so it's gonna be a half story, but there is a room -- Anne: I know where you're going with this. Gillian: There's this room where they've completely soundproofed it. And supposedly, I mean, I, I just got out -- Anne: You could go crazy in five minutes. Gillian: You could go crazy in it. And I feel like I'm in a quiet space right now, and my Apple Watch is telling me that there's 73 decibels of sound going on. Anne: Oh my God. You have that on your -- see, you are absolutely an audio engineer. Gillian: I love to know. Anne: I cannot tell you how many decibels right now on my watch, no. Gillian: I can tell you from my watch because it's important to -- oh my gosh. We could do a whole episode on ear health and keeping your ears because that's very important. Anne: I agree. Gillian: Which is why I have it on there 'cause -- I wish Apple would sponsor us, 'cause I just talk about them all day. But there's a ton of ways to check and make sure that your hearing's not being damaged both by -- Anne: Oh, fantastic. Gillian: — what you're listening to and the environment you're in. That's super interesting and really important to me, near and dear to my heart, because this is my livelihood, like your voice. Anne: Absolutely. Gillian: The way you care for your voice, I care for my ears. But there is a place where they completely soundproofed it and supposedly people can't stay in there for more than five minutes. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: It's so uncomfortable. It's so quiet -- Anne: Yeah. Gillian: — you can like hear your blood moving in your body. Anne: So I'm sorry I have to tell you about this. So a while back, my ear got perforated. I had a head cold, and I went to a doctor who wasn't the best doctor, and they said, well, we can't see in your ear because you have a buildup of wax, so we need to take care of that. And they took a syringe to clear out my ear and I said, well, that typically doesn't work for me because I've really tiny eardrums. And they're like, no, no, no, no. And so they flushed my ear out and proceeded to poke a hole in my eardrum when that happened. And it was really scary, number one, because my equilibrium just got completely thrown. I had to sit down for like 45 minutes, and I should have, this could be a whole 'nother episode, I should have probably sued them (laughs) because I told them not to do it. And so, they punctured my eardrum and I know because I could taste the fluid going down my throat once the syringe went. I know it's gross. Sorry. But anyways, I will tell you about the recovery period. So when you have a hole in your eardrum, your eardrum performs many, many important functions, right? Keeping sound out and also sound in. And so when you have a hole in that (laughs), the sounds that you hear are incredibly different. So for a good year after that happened, if not longer, I would hear wooshing sounds in my ear because it was literally fluids in my body that I could now hear. And it was like I could hear when I had sinus issues. I could hear when it was an allergy day, and it would get very loud. And this white noise I call — like it wasn't a white noise 'cause I couldn't stand it. It was like whooshing, whooshing in sounds that were constantly, I couldn't go into a room full of a lot of people talking because my brain couldn't process all of the sounds. And it made me very confused and very foggy. It was very upsetting. So for a long time, while my ear was healing, and it still hasn't completely healed, my brain had to get used to the fact that I could hear noises both from inside my body and outside my body. So it does not surprise me that if you had 100% pure quiet in a room — and by the way I think that's like miles like below the earth, that room that you go down into, and they've soundproofed it -- it makes a whole lot of sense that you would go crazy, because I was able to hear all sorts of noises, my heart beating. It was incredible. Gillian: Uncomfortable. Anne: It's very uncomfortable. Very unsettling. Gillian: Yeah. Anne: So (laughs) in terms of -- Gillian: No, you should not want to get a completely soundproofed room. Anne: Yes. But, and that's why also they have signs in studios, shh, recording. Because you cannot possibly really 100% soundproof. Like if you're gonna run screaming down the hallway in a studio, I think still you'll be able to hear some of that sound coming through a door. Maybe not, depends on how loud, you know, you still don't wanna make any extraneous noises that you don't have to. Gillian: Well, it is interesting because a lot of the studios that I work in, there are certain things that will really help. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: And I learned in school about the things that you do. You do floating floors, which is like the regular floor and then another one. So that -- Anne: On top of it. Gillian: And then just basically rooms within rooms, which is what -- Anne: Oh, I was gonna say -- Gillian: — a booth is. Same thing. Anne: A room in a room. And that's the protective like walls on the outside that protect the sounds from coming in. Gillian: Well, they also, when they build them, it's like double paned everything. And the doors are really heavy. I mean on important rooms that need like the control room where we blast music doors are, they've gotta be like a hundred pounds of those doors just to, and solid wood to keep everything out. Even the glass, there's like double paned glass and it's slanted, like kind of like we talked, you don't want complete parallel surfaces anywhere, 'cause that just creates for reflections everywhere. Anne: And what's interesting is that I've not had a window on any of my booths. Now I know a lot of the booths that are pre-fabricated, you can buy with a window, and it and it's cool looking and it's pretty. But when it came time to designing this particular booth, I said, oh I want a window. 'Cause I never had a window. And Tim Tippetts said to me, do you really want a window (laughs)? He said, did you have a window in your last booth? I'm like, no. And he goes, so the window kind of brings up a whole 'nother set of things that you have to protect against because it's a different surface. Right? It's not the same as a wall. And so it's a pane of glass so you also have to protect that. So when I was recording he said, really you need a sound panel to put over it when you record to keep all of the noise out. So I just said, you know what, I don't need a window. I really don't. And my door, by the way, which has always been a really heavy part of my booth -- I have double doors here. So not only do I have double walls, but I have double doors, and that's to help keep noises from the outside from coming in. And now in terms of inside, I also have sound that's traveling inside this booth. My booth is probably built at a very tiny angle. It's not like a huge angle, it's not visible at all. But the walls are not completely perpendicular to one another. And also I have these panels that are the acoustic panels that are on the walls. Again, any of the sound that right now is in my booth will bounce around and get absorbed by these panels. And I mentioned before that they're slightly offset from the wall. So like by a quarter inch maybe? I'm looking right now. They sit off the wall a quarter inch so that if it hits that wall, it has space to travel back through the back of the panel and then get stopped again before it could travel back into this microphone. And that's typically what you're trying to do is to stop the sound from reflecting and reverberating off the walls and coming back into the microphone as feedback or some sort of echo. So that's a little bit more on the absorption part. But now once we're in the studio, (laughs) and we're recording -- Gillian: Once we're in the studio that you've built and whatever says… Anne: — there's equipment. And of course we could probably talk about microphones all day. But I, I really think that there's other pieces of equipment that I wanna focus on today, and maybe this will even go into another episode, in regards to what's important for voice actors. I'm gonna start the conversation with your internet connection. Gillian: Yeah. And we kind of talked about this a little bit last time. Like internet computer, without those two things, you don't have a job. You can't connect with anybody. Anne: So true. Gillian: I mean it's different when you're in a recording studio 'cause that's all there for you and you don't think about the fact that they have the computer, they have the recording equipment, especially since as a voice actor just standing in front of the mic, putting on the headphones. Like those are things that you think about. But we worry about that all the time, and less the internet connection, which we've had to do that and configure things to be on Zoom with people to send audio that way. But it's definitely very important. And my computer is my, I don't wanna say baby, but kind of (laughs); more important than my phone, it is the most important thing in my professional life, and I spent a ton of money on it to get the most updated one and it, it hurt. Anne: It's an investment. Gillian: It hurt a little bit. Anne: (laughs) There was some physical pain when you invested -- Gillian: Emotional pain. Anne: — but it's an investment. Gillian: I have someone that I work with that we talk about this all the time 'cause we both have, you know, brand new Macs, iPhone. What -- I don't have the newest one, but when I upgraded I got pro Macs, the best phone. Because why would you not invest in something that you use every single day and that you use every single day for work? Anne: Yeah. Gillian: Like you're paying to have less trouble issues, be faster. I think that's a worthy investment. Anne: Well, I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna backtrack a little bit because I'm adamant about the internet. I love the internet and it's always been said that I would marry the internet if I could (laughs). Like, like Vince Surf is like one of my heroes, okay, the inventor of the internet. And so I guess my point is I have some people that say when I'm connecting to them for their sessions and I use ipDTL to connect exclusively with my students for their sessions because of the fact that it's a high quality audio connection. It allows me to hear them better so that I can direct them better. We can record our sessions. There's lots of wonderful advantages to using ipDTL. Also source connect, all the other methodologies that people use to connect to each other, to their clients and to studios, you need to have a quality internet connection. And sometimes when I have students say, well, my connection -- yeah, well, I think we have like a 300 connection, 300 speed. Most people don't necessarily know what speed connection they are connecting to the internet. And I think that it's important for you to know as BOSSes, first of all, what speed is your internet connection? And if you have the capability of getting a gig or a faster speed, why not choose the top of the line speed for that internet connection? Because your business, not just your audio and connecting with clients, but your entire business runs on the internet and the communication. Because we are pretty much an online business. Right? And we're connecting globally to people. So why on a daily basis -- I probably am on the internet, oh goodness, 8 to 10 hours a day, possibly more. Gillian: An embarrassing number of hours a day. (laughs) Anne: Well, yeah, because we watch our televisions now, which are, you know, everything is fed through the internet. And so if you can get the fastest speed, absolutely, it's an investment in your company. I just say that over and over again. And as a matter of fact, when I said this before on an episode, when I moved here to my new house, I actually checked and said, what speeds are available in my area? If I cannot get fiber to my house, I will not move here. I will not move here. You know, it's one of those things they say, oh, fiber's coming, fiber's coming. But you know, if it's years until fiber's coming, and I know how important that connection is to my business, the livelihood of my business, I actually chose where I was going to live based upon my internet speed. Because again, until I retire, guys, this is it. This is where I make my money, and I know how important it is. So, alright, I've stepped down off my soapbox for the internet, but get the fastest speed, guys. It's an investment in your business and write it off. Right? It's your business. Okay. Now Gillian onto the computer thing. So. Gillian: Well no, no. I feel like this doesn't get, and maybe it does get talked about. I'm not hearing it, so we're talking about it (laughs), but like -- Anne: I'm rambling on and on about it. (laughs) Gillian: Computers, XLR cables, like these are not exciting purchases. A microphone is an exciting purchase to some degree. Anne: Well, I think they're exciting. Gillian. I'm sorry. I was gonna marry the internet, remember? Gillian: That's true, that's true. That's true, in love with the internet. But I think that there's a ton of things that make your space great that are not flashy -- Anne: A microphone. Gillian: Or exciting. I mean, unboxing my computer was like a spiritual experience. I loved it. It was like so awesome. I just, when I got my Apple Watch last week, I took a video of the unboxing because I was like, oh my gosh, it's so aesthetically pleasing. (laughs). I mean -- Anne: Wait, did you say that to yourself? This is so aesthetically pleasing. I love that. Gillian: I said it in my head. Yeah, of course. Anne: I love it. I love it. Gillian: Everything with Apple. I made my boyfriend hover above and take the video while I unbox it and I was like, don't move. Anne: Wait, wait. Get the lighting. Get the lighting perfect. I would do that too though. I'm such a geek about things like that. I really am. Gillian: You only open an Apple box once. Once it's opened, it's not the same. Anyway sorry, little BOSSes; you're listening to us ramble about Apple. All of you PC lovers, I'm sorry. Anne: Yes. Gillian: You just will never, never understand (laughs). Or maybe you will. Anne: Well, they have their own unboxing, so that's absolutely fine. You can get excited about -- but I know a lot of people that build their own computers, and that's exciting. Gillian: Oh yeah. That's an activity. That's fun. Anne: That's definitely a very cool thing to do. So your computer, again, it's part of your livelihood. Now there are people out there that say for voice acting, you don't need to have a very powerful computer, and no, you don't necessarily for the actual physical audio recording of one track perhaps. I'm gonna say that, yeah, you don't have to have a billion megabytes of RAM or, or a ton of space. But honestly, everything we do combined together along with the audio recording -- I am connecting with clients. I am looking things up on the internet, I'm researching, I am doing so many activities on that computer for my business, marketing, connecting with clients, audio recording, audio editing — why wouldn't I want it to be as optimal as it could be? And so there might be people that are using multiple computers. Like one is just for recording my audio. That's fine. Whatever works works there for you. However, there's still -- I think Gillian and I were discussing this a little bit earlier, and we can continue this discussion about the speed of your computer, when you're recording, your audio does play a factor in the quality of what you're getting out. And you certainly don't want your computer to be an ancient piece of equipment that can't handle your interface or it keeps crashing. Like I know for a fact -- Gillian, you use Adobe products? Gillian: I do. Yeah. Anne: Right? I mean, just any Adobe product for me has always been a little bit of a memory hog. And so if you've got Adobe Audition running in the background and you're recording and you've got it on a kind of an older computer and you don't have a lot of RAM or you're running out of space, whatever it is, it can cause that to crash and cause many, many frustrating problems. So as good as your performance is, right, if your DAW's gonna crash time and time again… Gillian: And there's nothing worse than being in the middle of an edit, and it crashes and you lose all of your hard work on an edit. That's happened -- I mean, not as much with ProTools. There's always like automatic save. So I'll just go back to previous version, but it's happened enough -- Anne: Or a good take. Right? You could be actually recording like, and you've got the best take of your life, and then something, you know, happens. I mean, that would suck. Gillian: Yeah. So it's interesting because computers become important when you're doing everything off of it. Kind of like we're saying, you're sending emails, you're uploading auditions places, you are, I don't know, creating your post for social media in Premiere, you're recording, you're editing, you're -- all of these things, they take up space and why would you not — obviously don't go into debt for a computer. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: I mean, do what you want, but -- Anne: But it's an investment. Gillian: Again, it's a worthy investment, and I think people always -- from my experience of talking with voice actors, people would be much more willing to jump to buy another microphone or another, something that's, in air quotes, fun versus, you know, really splurging on the super important things. Anne: So true. Like a foundational technology that helps you run your business. You're absolutely right. And not to say that microphones aren't important, but again, no, you don't need like the U87 (laughs). Well, I kind of want one, but(laughs), I still am holding off on that one. But microphones like, I feel like the microphone technologies, they last a little bit longer than — you don't have to worry about updating them. It's not like you're upgrading the OS on your microphone, right? Gillian: No. Anne: Or upgrading the RAM, uh, microphones, they work and they just work unless you're gonna beat it up. Gillian: They're completely different. Anne: And pour water into it. Yeah. It's a completely different, it's a piece of hardware that… Gillian: It's a piece of hardware. I mean five years and who knows, but five years down the line, at least for me, I'll trade in my, yeah. Mac for another Mac through Apple. That'll be great. But if you have a microphone, you can sell that at any point. If anything, it's probably gonna go up in value the longer you keep it and take care of it. And yeah, I mean, I'm kind of a U87 hater. I don't like them. I don't like them at all. Anne: That could be another episode. I'm not sure how many people would disagree with you there. Jilian: I think, I don't know. I don't know how much of it is just, it's a -- I mean I've used it, I've done shootouts with mics for myself for other things where you just line them all up and you sing into them. And the one that I'm using now is my favorite from a lot of mics that I've tried within my budget. My favorite mics are like $20,000 ones that I can't afford and don't need to afford, because why would I? But producers, clients, nobody's gonna know what your gear is. They just care about how you sound. And so I don't personally think that everyone needs to spend upwards of thousands of dollars on gear. I think there's really smart ways to make less expensive gear sound great when you're starting out. But then the expensive gear is room to grow within your business, within your voiceover experience. And isn't that like something to look forward to or know that, you can resell your gear to someone who's starting off and then upgrade to something bigger, and just all of these big purchases are investments. And they are important. Anne: And another thing that, I'm just gonna say that like equipment that you don't think about for your voiceover business, your online storefront, hello, your website. Oh my goodness, I cannot tell you how many people want to -- and I'm not saying you can't do it on your own. However, look, I worked in technology for 20 years. I did websites back when they were easy. Okay? They're not -- when you could write HDMI Notepad and it was simple. And then all of a sudden like CSS came out and I was like, I was overwhelmed. I was like, okay, no, I just know what functionality I want in the backend of my website. I'm not a graphic designer. I'm a functional person, so I know what I want, and I know what functionality I want. And so at some point I said, okay, I am not making my own websites anymore because it is a face of my business. And so I wanna pay someone who actually does this eight hours a day, if not longer. And that's what they were trained to do. And a lot of people try to skimp on that. And I hear that constantly from voice actors. And I guess my question is, back in the day when there was more brick and mortar things, like actual studios, Gillian, you know, you go to them all the time — you used to have to front the bill for leasing once a month. If you had a store, you had to stock it with inventory so there were all these like monetary investments you would make. And then all of a sudden when things became easy from technology and easier from technology and online, all of a sudden people think that, well, it's so easy, I can just do it and cheap out on it. It frustrates me. Like that mentality -- I understand that yes, doing anything online at home is a great business to start, but you have to still invest in it. And there's so many worthy things to invest in, and your storefront, if it's not brick and mortar, it's online. The impression you make is so, so important in order to be successful in this industry. Gillian: And there are just ways to -- I love my website. It's very important to me. I've gotten like compliments on it that it looks really professional, and I didn't make it. I hired someone to make it for me. Obviously the content that I fill it with is mine. I do that. But I would've never been able to make the website that I have now. Both from how it looks and a functionality standpoint, I feel like people are not really using their websites in a functional way where you could, you know, manage contacts and, and communicate with people that way. But for me, I mean, I work with voice actors, I do sessions with them. Every once in a while I will have to look someone up and the first thing I look for is a website. And if I can't find a website for someone, I kind of don't know what to do. I'm like, if I can't find you and listen to your demo right away — and if it's not easy for me, and especially like if you could get your demos online, easily downloadable for anybody in casting, anybody working at a studio that kind of gives you a leg up. It really like, it just does because you're easier to work with, you're easier to find. And I kind of know who you are. I'm like, okay, this person is a legit voice actor. Which might not be the right answer, but it's what I do. Anne: Well, and a professional voice actor. Right? So, again, there are people who, well, you know, do I need to buy a domain? Do I need to, you know, I can do my own website right now, and I can upload my files to a pay-to-play. But honestly, when I shop and I shop a lot online, hello? Gosh, I can't remember the last time I was at a mall. Although I do love getting out and seeing people. But honestly I do a ton of online shopping. And so for me, the trust factor and the value factor has everything to do with the website. And when I first get an impression of somebody, when I go to the website, right, I can tell, oh, are they trustworthy? Are they professional? And if you've got a website that you made and you don't do that for a living, right, it's gonna look homemade. Here's an old school thing. I always talk about business cards, right? If you walk up to somebody and they hand you a business card, which still happens these days, not as much as it used to, but then that business card was printed on a printer in your home versus something that was professionally made, you can absolutely tell the difference. Same thing with a website, right? You can absolutely tell the difference, but there's just a level. It's like a movie and a B movie, (laughs). It's like, it's absolutely a level of professionalism that comes with something that's been professionally designed. Gillian: And unfortunately it's kind of all the aesthetic versus, and that analogy is incredible. I mean, I've never really lived in a business card world. I know (laughs), but when I was like 10, I had professionally made business cards for my babysitting business. Anne: There you go. Gillian: So I kind of did. And those were -- Anne: It made a difference, right? Gillian: I, I don't know, I still have them, but I got work probably 'cause people were impressed that a 10-year-old had business cards. Anne: Right? Gillian: But for me, I mean I'm in my 20s, I first look at people's website, and off the bat there's just a different pro versus not pro vibe that I immediately, it just goes off in my brain. And same thing. And then if I can't find them immediately, the next thing I look for is Instagram. And if I can't find you and see that you're doing any sort of voiceover work, then I'm kind of confused. You know, if you have a great voice, I'll email you, but it's a different world. Anne: So that's interesting. So you go Instagram, what about TikTok? At what level is TikTok or other social media channels for you? Gillian: Um, it really is for me. I use my Instagram, it's like professional now. Everyone that I meet on a session, artists that I work with, I connect with everybody on Instagram. And that's like the way that I keep up with what people are doing and what people are up to. I personally don't really use LinkedIn. I did when I was in less creative field, but nobody that I work with uses it. Anne: Right. But our potential clients do. That's why I'm just gonna say that for us. Gillian: Well, yeah. I think it's different for what I do versus what you guys do. But I, I think I'll go to LinkedIn as a last resort if I can't find somebody. But for the most part, like Instagram and websites. TikTok, I don't really use for work. That's like fun for me. I would never like look for someone on TikTok or like look for voice actors on TikTok. But I do know that there's definitely -- Anne: But if there were creative voice actors, I was gonna say if there's creative voice actors that are doing something entertaining on TikTok, you'll take notes. Gillian: Yeah. I'm also not a client. I'm coming at this from a strictly studio perspective. I do, every once in a while some voice actors will come up on my feed, or I know there's some people that I know that are like voice actors and musicians and they talk about stuff like that. Um, so I can't say that I know too much about it, but yeah, Instagram is like the thing for me that I can check if someone's legit or not. Anne: I think the last little, I'm gonna call these the soft equipment requirements. I'm gonna talk about how before it was a voice actor, always, well I've got a face for radio, that kind of thing. I loved voice acting initially because there weren't the requirements of being on camera. I thought, well, I can act and I can be behind that microphone. However, it has evolved and times have changed. And I do believe that there's a video element and there's a face element because people wanna connect with humans. And so for us as voice actors, there are the times when we need to connect with others as humans. And a lot of times I'll have live sessions where they'll wanna connect and watch me via Zoom. I don't always have the camera on. Sometimes I will always to say hello. For obviously my podcast, yes. I do this and I do some, if you were going to do some social media posts, I have a YouTube channel called my Teachable Moments. So the other equipment purchase that people don't necessarily think about is a good camera and good lighting. And then also I hire a video person to help me to actually create videos and edit videos. So again, it can present to my online clients. My online presence can be of a more professional nature. Again, I don't do video production, but I do know lots of people that do. So I think camera and lighting so that you can look professional. And then if you have videos that you upload, make them look professional and have people who do video editing. And so what a good conversation. And we didn't even get to the hardware yet, really. Gillian; I know, I'm sorry, guys. There's one more -- Anne: Or the microphone or the headphones and, and all that. So that's for our next -- Gillian: Sorry, guys. Anne: That's for our next episode. Gillian: But I got, one more thing I got for you. It's so interesting because obviously I'm learning about the voiceover industry. I know about audio; I record it, but learning the ins and outs of the industry or what people are doing, sometimes it's confusing to me because sometimes stuff goes like against what I would think or things that I think are obvious, people aren't doing. But for voice actors, I feel like, and this is my take, you can tell me if I'm wrong, I feel like it'd be easy to be yourself on social media because anything that you do with you talking, just being yourself. It's your voice. And that's -- Anne: Uh, yes, it's true. It's so true. Gillian: Wouldn't that make so much sense? I'm on social media a decent bit. I'm on TikTok. People are always like, this is my morning routine, this and that. All these videos with voiceover. And when I make my tos, I do voiceovers. I don't do voiceover, but you know, I'll talk in them, but really, I hear a lot of people getting hung up on like, I have to be talking about my booth or voiceover. But really anything that you're doing -- Anne: Anything you're doing. Gillian: — using your voice is showing off your voice -- Anne: Who you are and your brand. Gillian: Yeah. But then if, if you're being yourself, then it's kind of like sneaky, you know, it's like I'm just being myself. People are getting to know me, and they're realizing that I have a great voice and a great sound. So that's what I always think about and I don't see a lot of. Anne: Yeah. And people buy from people they know, like, and trust. And I've always said this podcast, I have gotten so much work from this podcast. There's so many people that come up to me and say, oh my gosh, I feel like I've known you for years because I've been doing this podcast for years and, and I'm pretty much myself on this podcast. And ultimately that is a really wonderful way to get your brand out there and to have people know, like, and trust you. And then, when they do come to you, they're ready to purchase. And that just becomes a really cool thing. So yeah, guys, so this has been a great talk about the soft technologies. I don't even know what to call them. The soft technologies or the technologies that most people don't think about, right? The hardware people don't think about. Gillian: Or just things that people don't think about that are not the -- Anne: It's not the microphone -- Gillian: — exact gear. I'm sorry, guys. We're just leading you on. I'm so sorry (laughs). But there's just not so much to say. Anne: Next episode. All right, well, thank you, Gillian. It's been fun. We're gonna talk next time about maybe some equipment that people have been thinking about. Well, what about my headphones? Gillian: I know. Anne: So good stuff. So BOSSes, as individuals, it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to learn how. All right. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Gillian: Bye. Anne: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Anne & Lau answer a question many have about the voice over industry: "how long will it take?" The truth is, becoming a successful voiceover artist takes time, discipline, and dedication. There is no set timeline for success, and it is important to have realistic expectations. Investing in coaching and training is essential, but it is equally important to be selective about where and how to invest. Building a recognizable brand identity and having a viable business is important. Respecting the voiceover industry as a business is crucial. Hard work, commitment, and effort increase the chances of success, but there are no shortcuts. Success is not only measured financially but also in time and commitment to your voice over business. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here today with the lovely and most wonderful BOSS, co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey BOSS. Lau: Hey BOSS. How are you? Anne: I'm doing great. How about yourself? Lau: I'm doing good. Feeling BOSSy today. Anne: Today I think we should answer a very common question that is asked, I think, both of myself and you, I can imagine. And that is for people just starting out in this industry, how long will it take for me to become a voiceover artist? Or how long will I have to spend coaching or training so that I can do voiceover? Lau: Hmm. Gotta get my calculator out for that one. So I can just do different variables, different scenarios, right? Anne: Yeah. Lau: Variations on the theme. That's a biggie. Anne: Is it gonna take me, okay, in three months I wanna be able to make $10,000 a month, and I want to be able to secure 20 new clients, right? So it's very hard for people when they're first starting out. Again, we had another podcast all about this, like, you don't know what you don't know yet. So how long will it take? Well, let's see. Where's my crystal ball? Lau: (laughs) Where do you start? Where do you start? Anne: Where's my crystal ball? How do even I start? Lau: Where do you start? Anne: Boy, it depends on so many things, Lau. Lau: Mm. There's tons of variables involved with that. That's not even possible to answer that question. One could Google and look up, okay, voiceover talent, 2023, North America, what's the average? But it's really not going to tell you what is going on in individual scenarios and situations that can cause a tremendous amount of loss and a tremendous amount of gain. Anne: Yeah. Well, maybe let's start with how long will it take if somebody's just starting out in the industry, right? Lau: Wait, can I do my theater moment? Can I do my like, wait, give me six months. I gotta do jazz hands. I will give you a VO career. Anne: Woohoo! Lau: Did you like that? Did that sound credible to anyone? Anne: Wait, I'm sorry. I couldn't hear you. I was running fast and far away from that. Lau: (laughs) Anne: From that claim. Lau: You know, I had a colleague one time, he told the greatest stories, and he said, listen, would you go to a dentist who did a weekend workshop? Or who even did a one-year certificate program to become a dentist? Would you do that? And everyone laughs at that. Anne: Would you get your tooth drilled from that dentist? Mm. Lau: Probably not. Probably not. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Because not just about the physical pain of it, but the idea that, how could they become a dentist in six months or one year? There's a lot to learn. There's a lot to delve into, right? Anne: Oh my gosh, yes. Absolutely. Such a great point. And I think that's like one of the first things that I'm always saying. My gosh, we go to school for years to learn a craft. Like doctors go for eight years minimum, I think, right? Dentists as well. And maybe not even doctors and dentists. I mean, just back in the day, okay, now I'm starting to sound my age, but I had a four-year program in college that I went to for a bachelor's or a two-year program for an associate, whatever it is, right? We go to elementary school for so many years to learn all of these things. So why is voiceover any different? Like, I'm not saying we need to spend 12 years, but in reality, we probably are continually honing our craft and spending our entire lives being a student. But why would you think it would only take two months or three months even, or even a couple of sessions before you're ready to make that demo? You have to just sit back and does that make logical sense? Lau: I think it could only make logical sense if I am really invested in the media blitz of our society and having very quick images and sounds about being in entertainment, being in the entertainment industry, which looks to us on the outside as very fast and very polished and very rich and very quick. When we know on the inside, on the other side of it, it takes years and years oftentimes to get to that place of what you're seeing in that media image. Anne: Sure. Lau: So I mean, that's kind of like the collateral damage of being in this whole entertainment industry under that umbrella is that you have whole generations now that think and feel like, if I jump on TikTok or if I jump on this social media channel, I'm instantly this, I'm instantly that. It's like stir and mix, you know? Pull it off the shelf, stir and mix, and you're instantly a star. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: We have to combat that because we know for longevity in careers, it's just never that. It's always a, an investment, a creating, a recreating, a re-envisioning throughout your life. This is a craft. Anne: Yeah. And it doesn't happen overnight, for sure. Does not happen. If it looks easy, well, yeah, it probably took us, what if that overnight success was 40 years in the making? Lau: Yes. We were a 40-year overnight success. You like it? (laughs) Anne: And everybody is different. Now, of course, you might have a different story. Maybe you've been an actor all your life, and you've turned to voiceover, and you got hired because maybe you're a little bit of a celebrity, right? And people know you and they know your brand, and so you were able to lock in a big video game right away, or a national campaign. And so that is where I think people, they look at it and go, oh my gosh, I should be be able to do this. You know, if I set my goals, I should be able to do this in three months or six months. But honestly, BOSSes out there, I mean, to really be a BOSS, I think that there has to be some longevity. There has to be some due diligence. There has to be some hard work, some sweat, blood, tears, mistakes. We just had a whole podcast on mistakes -- that really make that career a possibility. And it does not typically happen in two to three months. So with that being said, the other question is, how much is this going to cost? Well, it's going to cost, right, whatever you're going to invest in your coaching and training. And I don't mean to be impatient, but it's so many times I get people who come to me thinking that it'll cost them much less to get that demo so that they can get working and be successful as a voiceover actor. And somehow they're thinking, well, just a few hundred dollars, maybe a thousand, and I'll be good to go, and I'll be able to make some money. Lau? Lau: I almost don't know what to say to that though. We always have to have something to say to that. Anne: Right? We do. We do. Lau: One of the first things I always say is, what you put into it, what you invest is exactly what you're going to get out of it. So be careful how you invest. And how much you invest and what you invest. You have to really sit down with a master plan and think, okay, maybe I don't know much. I'm in my first year. Now I'm in my third year. I know a lot more. And you have to invest and reinvest in, what are my goals per quarter? What do I want to achieve? What is achievable? What is realistic? I always joke with my clients and say, I may want to be a 22-year-old Scandinavian supermodel, but that ain't happening. Anne: (laughs) Lau: Can I just say? And I'm glad it's not happening, 'cause that leaves me room to be what I can be, what I want to be, and what is possible for me. Anne: Love it. Sure. Lau: So I don't look at that as a limitation. I look at that as opening the door to spending the energy and time and everything that I should be investing in. Anne: Yes. Lau: Just because I have money and I can invest doesn't mean I should invest in that. I have to be very specific. I have to be very goal-oriented, and I have to be reasonable. I have to be realistic and pragmatic in my goal. There's a difference between a dream and a goal, right? Who is the famous person who said this? I have to look this up. A goal is just a dream with a deadline. But it's more than that. It's something that is realistic for my talent, for my skillset, for my time, for my money. It's like a whole portfolio. You sat down with a financial advisor, they're not just gonna say, hey, how much money do you have? No. They're gonna look at you and build a portfolio on who you are, what your background is, what you're capable of, what you want, and really come up with scenarios and variables that are reasonable in terms of it not being a gamble, but being an investment, a calculated risk. Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like we say this so much, but I feel like we, we need to say it. There is an investment here. There is an investment here. It's not going to come — can you learn voiceover on YouTube? Can you learn voiceover from reading books? Can you learn voiceover from Googling? There's a lot that you can take from that. But then there's also so much more that you can garner by investing some money into a good coach. This is all about you and your voice and your acting. And so it really helps to work with someone who specializes in taking your voice and teaching you techniques and principles of acting so that you can showcase the very best for your potential clients. And so that's going to cost money. And I always think, if you are invested enough to want to create a business selling your voice, well, you have to also understand that as a business, you respect other businesses, right? Other businesses, coaches are out there. They have to charge for their services. It's not like I can exist just on my good heart, which I do have a wonderful heart, and Lau, you too. Lau: You do. You do. Anne: I can't just spend my hours every day giving away voice lessons. And so there has to be some semblance of a business there. And I always have to say to myself that I need to present a good example of a voiceover business. I've got policies. If they can't make their lesson, if they don't notify me in a certain amount of time, I can't fill that spot again. So that costs me money. So there are things that need to be enforced in business, which I think as a student, right, or as somebody entering into this industry, wanting to be a business, that you also have to learn about and also respect and understand. Lau: You said a total mouthful too, when you said, you know, respecting the businesses that are in your business. I mean, we wanna respect everyone in the world, but when we're talking about our industry, like be respectful of others' businesses that are working alongside you, with you, and for you to help you create and grow a business. Their time is valuable. Their time is money, in essence, right? We don't like to think of it that way, but we never wanna apologize for having value monetarily. You have to have value. Sure, you can do pro bono work. Sure, you can do projects without getting paid. Sure, you can do all of that. But it has to live alongside a paradigm of career and really building something that is viable, meaning I'm getting my return, and I'm also investing, and I'm also having some luxury of profit. And that is called building a business. And so when we come out to people, we say, oh, well, how much is this gonna be? Well, that's expensive. Well, I can't afford that. You're automatically unintentionally disrespecting that person's not just time and effort, but their education. You're paying for their history, their value -- Anne: Their experience. Lau: -- their schooling, all the connections they have and know, their studio. I mean, on and on it goes. You are paying for that. It's not just about a product; it's about a a process. And so really just making sure people understand that. If you feel like someone is charging you too much money, that's fine. Then walk away from it and don't spend it. But just know they're basing their value off what they think their value is based in all those areas. It isn't just, oh, I'm slapping on a price tag of this. It's like I'm bringing this to the table and guess what? I'm not 20 or 30, I'm 50, I'm 60. So I'm bringing you all those years of knowledge and wisdom. Anne: Experience. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, respect the business. Respect the people that are in the business that are helping you get into the business. And also expecting things to be easy or cheap, I would say educate yourself enough about the industry to know that with anything, right, you're going to have to make an investment. I wish that there weren't people out there selling the dream, but I think you're gonna have that for just about anything, not just voiceover, right? There's gonna be, I'm gonna sell you the dream. Gosh, there were so many and there probably still are infomercials on, come to my seminar. You too can flip a house and make thousands of dollars, and you can make thousands of dollars in, in a short amount of time. So that whole selling the dream, if it seems too good to be true, typically it is. Lau: (laughs) Anne: And so that's something to be aware of. So how long will it take me? This is the other question, how long will it take me to get a return on my investment? Lau: That's a really tough question to answer. It really is. And I, I just have to say to your point for people to remember --I had a colleague that gave me this really adorable sign one time from my birthday. It was like a mechanic with this old fashioned truck, and he was fixing the truck, and it said on it, good work ain't cheap and cheap work ain't good. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And I never forgot. Anne: Yep. I love that love. Lau: I don't know if I have the signs still, but I never forgot that. I thought it was funny and kitchy, but it's so true. Like you get what you pay for oftentimes. You really, really do. Not always, but much of the time, that principle is really true. And to be perfectly honest with everyone and all your peeps, I'm gonna be honest with, I don't feel I can give you an answer to that question of what am I gonna make and how much time I'm gonna make it in, and when am I gonna be successful? That really is an individual's journey and choice as to how much time, effort, investment, heart, soul, blood, tears, whatever you're gonna put into this. The harder you run at it, the more you put into it, the more you focus and intensify, the more opportunities tend to come because there's that work breeds work kind of energy that you're putting into the world. Like, I'm working, I know you're this way, Anne. If someone says, are you busy? Are you bored? Say there's no such thing. Bored is not in your vocabulary. Anne: Never, never. Lau: Because you're always working, you're working. Whether you're being paid or not, you're always working. And that energy, that mystical energy goes into the world, and people are attracted to that. There's an attraction to that. It's not just being busy, it's being engaged, it's being excited. It's being enthralled by things. People want to magnetically latch onto that. So I would say in order to get that success, whatever that is that you're looking for, get busy. Get busy on being busy and get engaged. And the more you're engaged, the more potential outcomes that are pleasing you are gonna happen. Anne: Well, I think return on your investment, okay. So investment, usually when people say that to you, or they're asking you that question, when will I get a return on my investment? They're talking about their money. And in reality, what you've just wrapped all into, besides the money, is your effort. Right? And your time and what you put into it. So in reality, when you're asking me, when will I get a return on my investment? Well, I will come right back to you and say, well, how committed are you to investing your time, your energy into making this a success? And a lot of it does depend on you. Now, if you're gonna sink a few thousand dollars into some coaching and a demo, then you expect to get a job how long after? A lot of times two people will say, all right, now that I got my demo, how long will it take for me to get my first voiceover job? And again, that really shows up into your effort in terms of how are you going to go out and get that job? Because you can have the best voice in the world, you have the best demo in the world, but if nobody knows about it, they can't hire you, and they can't pay you for it. Lau: And aren't you and I constantly breaking down the map biology of, okay, I will answer that question with a question, which no one likes, but okay, let's break down your day. Can we break down your week? Can we look at actually what you're investing day to day and week to week? And then all of a sudden, the door opens of knowledge, and sometimes it's like what you don't wanna see of Pandora's box coming out. Like, oh, I'm only doing this. I don't have time to do this. Or this is harder for me. Anne: Or I don't have time to do the homework. I give my students homework. And I'll be like, okay, so I saw that you were able to record a couple of pieces of copy , and I'll just say it like that. Okay. So they'll be like, well, okay, so am I ready for my demo? And I'll say, well, I noticed that you only recorded two out of your 20 pieces of copy. And so if I'm giving you too much homework, you just let me know. But I will say that you need to invest the time in doing this, and I give you homework not to make you cry or not to overwhelm you. It's to kind of get you in a discipline where you can be working. This is what it's going to be like to be working every day. This is what it's going to take for you to record this, edit it, prep it as if you were doing an audition, and just store it in that Dropbox and name it appropriately. Right? So all of these things that I'm giving for homework are really lessons in, here's what a voiceover artist does in their day. I'm submitting an audition, I'm naming it correctly, I'm uploading it on time. And so, most of the time I'll come back and say, I really need you to put in this time. Or they'll reschedule lesson after lesson after lesson, and then it will be like six months before I see them again. And I'm like, we've lost the momentum. Lau: That's right. And it's like, can you see the forest through the trees? Anne: Yeah. Lau: Like is there logic to your line of, is there reasoning even to your line of thinking? Anne: Yeah. Lau: Like one of my coaches recently, an anecdote, one of my coaches said to me, I'm frustrated because this person wants to get on the demo track and wants to do the demo and is quickly, doesn't have money, da, da, da, but is not doing the homework and is coming to the table and just using a lot of excuses as to why they could not prepare for the session. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: And he said, said simply, he was frustrated, but he said, do they realize they're going into voiceover? Do they even know what that profession is? And I said, no, they haven't made that connection yet. It's for us to do the teaching moments and making the connection that what you're going into is extremely demanding, and very fast, and crazy hours and blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. But a lot of our clients, Anne, I think you could say the same thing, right? They're not seeing the forest through the trees where they're seeing this overview of what they think the industry is, but the weeds, getting really into the weeds of what it is the coaching is simulating, trying to simulate what a work experience might be like. So if it's hard for you to do your homework, then it'll be near impossible for you to do the auditions and jobs. Anne: Yeah. Oh, I teach a lot of long format narration, right? So when I give homework, they are the full spots. They'll be two to four minutes, sometimes even longer if it's e-learning. And they'll say, okay, but that was a really long spot. And I'm like, well, that's the reality of it, right? And so I need to make sure that you as an actor are completely committed to that script three quarters of the way through. Three minutes in, are you still as committed as you were in the beginning? And I want you to edit that entire thing as if it were an audition. So they're like, well, do I have to edit? And I'm like, I'm kind of giving it to you all at once so that you can understand what it takes, right, to put out a job that is a four-minute job. How long will it take you to edit that? And I want you to get better at it. I want you to get faster at it. Lau: It's a simulated journey of -- Anne: Exactly. Lau: It's a journey that you pay for to invest so that you can go with very little to no stakes. Right? To go into a high stake situation. Anne: Yeah. And if you're working with me, right? And you wanna know how long it will take before you can do voiceover -- I mean, if you're just gonna meet with me once a week, then that's an hour out of your week that you've spent doing voiceover. You're gonna progress an hour at a time. And if you're gonna ask me 10 weeks later, I'm like, well, you've spent exactly 10 hours with me. And in a given workday, we might work eight hours a day or 10 hours a day, or we work a 40-hour work week. You've only worked with me for 10 hours total of your lifetime, and you wanna know if you're ready for a demo. Now, does that make sense? Does that make sense? Lau: There's no sense to it. But then again, there's no understanding of the logic of what actually goes into it. Right? Like they literally may not get just yet what goes into building a career and building voiceover. And if someone is coming to me, which I get a lot; a client saying, I'm frustrated Lau because I'm already doing an hour or two a week of this. I can't put any more time into it, this is where I have to be kind and say, um, I get that. And you're busy and you work full-time, you have — I get that. But just continually regroup. And is your vision clear, understandable, and realistic about what you're going into? Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Lau: Because what you're going into is going to demand that you give as much as you can to it. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. It is the hardest thing. And I will be the first to admit, because when I worked part-time and voiceover when I was working a full-time job, a family, a full-time job, and voiceover is tough. There's so much focus that has to go into voiceover. Because remember, people, this is our business. It is. We are entrepreneurs. And unless your full-time job is your other full-time business, and it's yours, you are typically also navigating an unfamiliar world of, oh, I have my own business. I have to generate my own business. I have to market myself. I have to put on a trillion different hats. And so there's more than just getting in the studio and recording and editing. Now there is all the marketing, there's all the --I've gotta have a website. I've gotta be able to do auditions so that I can present myself with opportunities so that I can get work. So there's a lot, in addition to just doing voiceover in your booth. Lau: We're like one man bands. One woman bands. We really are. It's like putting on hats, hats, hats, hats. You have to own a lot of hats to be in this profession, because you're always gonna be shifting your hat. Any kind of business owner, if you're a solopreneur and you work alone, you're always shifting the hats. I think also too, Anne, we're fighting against the new mantra of teaching business leaders or teaching people who wanna be BOSSes that you can work for two or three hours a week and then sit on a beach for the rest of that time. That's like this new mantra that's out there in marketing. Like make six figures, make even seven figures. Lay on that beach with your children and just work a couple hours a week. Anne: Couple hours a day. Yeah. If that, yeah. Lau: I'm not gonna say it's a lie. I'm not gonna say that, but I am going to say there's a slight fabrication, maybe even an embellishment in that, because I know for a fact that even the tech billionaires are working all the time. And why are they working all the time? Because people who own stuff, run stuff, and lead stuff are innovators. They're inquisitive, they're interested. Whether you like what they do or agree with it is another thing. I'm just saying, they're invested in it. Their whole life is that. Even after they sell it sometimes. Anne: Entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs, that is the definition. Lau: Entrepreneurs. Anne: Of an entrepreneur, Lau. Lau: Yeah. We have a very, very well-known furniture company in New England that has been around for ages like 40 years. And they were run by two brothers, and they were constantly on TV together, constantly. The face -- Anne: Oh, who? Do I remember them? Lau: Jordan's Furniture. Anne: Oh yeah. Okay. Lau: One of the brothers sold his piece years ago. Well, guess what? We never see the brother that owns it. We only see that brother on tv. And he's constantly there. And I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe he's the one who still has the shares. I mean, they sold the whole company now. They've been in business for a long time. But the point is, I still see him. He's on all the time because he's the face of the company. He's the feel of the company. He's much older now. He still does all the commercial campaigns. He could say, hey, I'll be on the beach. Good luck. Good luck. He made his money, he made millions. Anne: That's true. Lau: Doesn't matter. His heart and his feel as a human being is to wanna stay connected to the company, to wanna stay connected to where it's going. So my point is, is like, are we ever laying back doing nothing to build a company? No. That's false. Anne: Yes. Yeah. My return on investment, I mean, honestly, right? Investment is so much more than money. So I want you guys to really think in terms outside of money -- blood, sweat, tears, effort, practice, and of course money when you're investing money too. But that investment falls not just in your wallet, but in your time and in your commitment. And how long will it take? I think that that really is entirely up to you, (laughs). How long will it take to get a return on investment? And will you get a return on your investment? I wish I could guarantee people things. And I always say, honestly, if you put the work in and you're committed, and as long as I can understand what you're saying, right? There's so much out there. Do I have the voice for voiceover? We all do. We all have our own unique voice, and it's beautiful, and it's beautiful to people in different ways. And so yeah, sure. It's not about the voice, to be honest with you. It's not really about the voice. Lau: And sometimes there's just no real rhyme or reason. You could call it fate, you could call it mystical, you could call it whatever you want, as to what jobs are coming to you. In the same day, I mean, when I do my agent work, I'll get a $400 job in perpetuity with nothing residual or whatever, and okay. And then in the same day, I'll get a $15,000 job, which doesn't take a whole lot more time to record or a whole lot more effort. It's just the nature of it is very, very different. And the usage is very different, and the client is very different. And how they came to me and us, sometimes it's just fate. And other times it's the hard work of your branding, your marketing, your staying with it year after year that your name just floats into the universe and they get it. Anne: Sure. And it just becomes a known brand. Yeah. So how much will I make (laughs)? Will I get a return on my investment and how long? BOSSes, it's up to you. It's up to you. So, and we have all the faith that you can absolutely do it. So, ah, good conversation. Good conversation. Lau: I love that. I love that. So empowering. Anne: So BOSSes, here's a chance, not only to be a BOSS at your own business, but here's a chance for you to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. And a big shout-out to our favorite ipDTL sponsor. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Lau: See you next week, bye. Anne: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

To create a successful voiceover performance, authenticity is key. This can involve using props, physicalizing the script, and infusing in personal experiences to deliver a realistic & engaging read. Anne & Lau emphasize the importance of intention, nuance, and understanding the corporate story & mission. Just as a chef must gather and prepare ingredients before cooking a delicious meal, hard work and effort are necessary before reaping the rewards.Want to improve your performance? Try taking notes, emphasizing key words, and using aids like pictures & videos, and of course, tune into VO Boss! We'll guide you through it. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my amazing special guest co-host, BOSS lady Lau Lapides. Lau: Hey, hey. Hey, Anne. Anne: So Lau, I am very excited that it's early morning, and I have my coffee. Lau: Me too. What would we do without it? Anne: I know. So many people have contacted me and said, it sounds like you and I in the booth in our podcast are just sharing a cup of coffee and shooting, shooting the breeze, having a conversation, Lau: High balling the water, which you gotta do in between the coffee. Anne: That's right. That's right. Lau: Just to wash the vocal folds out. Anne: Let me share — there's my big old water bottle with the coffee. Lau: And then I'm gonna show everyone, I think everyone already knows this about us. Watch this. We're gonna do this as well. Anne: (laughs). I love your lipstick. Oh, so here's mine. Lau: Wonder Twin powers activate! Anne: Right? Wonder powers activate. So, yeah, my red. But you know what, guys? Maybe one of these days I'm gonna switch it up. Lau: Hmm. Ooh, you should. You should. Anne: Oh gosh. Lau: Naked lips. Let's see what naked lips look like without the red. That would be fun. Anne: I feel like I'm so pale. (laughs), but I feel like I'm so pale. Lau: You are pale. But that's your beauty. Anne: Pale without my lips. Well. Lau: But you know what I just noticed, Anne? You know what I just noticed? Literally, I just observed this, that we just used like three props. Three props. Anne: Oh my God. Lau: In our world. Anne: We totally did. Lau: And we were talking all the way through that, as we always do. And we had no problem using the props, talking and connecting, getting our points across. And that suddenly just dawned on me, like, that's a part of our world in finding connection -- Anne: That's what we do. Lau: — and authenticity with each other. Anne: That's what we do in the booth. Interesting. So let's chat about this. Let's take this apart, because you know, I do this a lot when I'm trying to talk to students about being authentic and believable with the script. And I think what just throws the whole wrench into it is that we've got these words in front of us, and all of a sudden we don't know how to make them a part of us. And interestingly enough, like we just demonstrated, and BOSSes out there, you just heard it, even if you're not looking at us on YouTube, we were able to pick up objects and share ideas, and have a conversation, engage with one another, and not miss a beat. And we weren't even thinking about it. But what I want you guys to do is let's take a look at, a more in-depth look at this to kind of figure out how we can take what we do in real life and translate it into the booth to be believable and authentic. Right? Bring that real life into the booth. Now, one thing, I think that was first and foremost, we talked about props, right? Ah, I always have my trusty lipstick or my cup of coffee, or probably most of you have one of these, a phone or even just a mouse (laughs). Like you must have something in your booth. Lau: I mean, it's endless what we have really with us. And doesn't that make us feel comforted and taken care of? And we identify with that brush in a lot of ways. It's part of our life. Anne: I'm bringing all my makeup out. I've even got jewelry in here, but (Lau laughs), in case I -- Lau: I think a man's gonna pop up all of a sudden. (laughs), Anne: Gosh only knows I have tons of these, the headphones in there. So now, if you're trying to sound authentic and believable, one thing that we've covered multiple times in our podcast is there's not a perfect voice. Right? There's all sorts of imperfection in our voices, and a lot of that can translate -- I mean, not that — everybody has a beautiful, wonderful voice all on their own. You don't have to perform behind the mic, right? It just is beautiful when we're engaging. And so props can help us to bring that scene to life, right? I know I just had a really wonderful workshop with the amazing Ellen Dubin, and she was talking about video game acting, and all of it was about blocking, get up, move around, change your position. Do that, because that's gonna add that reality. And I'm always telling people physicate behind the mic, because that's gonna make our vocals not perfect for some reason. If we sit silent and straight behind the booth, and we just read these words, hello everyone, and welcome to the VO BOSS podcast, and the BOSS Superpower series, right? So I'm just reading, but I'm not moving, that physical part of having a prop, having somebody to talk to 00 expressing, expressing with our bodies. Lau: I love this. You know, you had me physicate. Like I have never heard anyone use that word. So I'm stuck on physicate. But yeah, I would love voice actors to take it a step farther and just Johnny Depp it out. Like take their script and go somewhere. Go to a store, go to a Starbucks, go to a library, go be in your car, and I want you to deliver that. Deliver the line as part of your universe. Anne: What a great idea. Lau: Yeah! Anne: Yeah. Lau: Right? Doesn't the booth at times sort of pen us and it becomes boxy to us in our minds where we can literally move it outside, move it, and see how it flows and works, and physicate in that environment. Like, if I'm ordering a drink or I'm getting food, or I'm sitting at a table, or I'm da da -- how would that line live within that universe versus only within the universe of the booth? I mean, ultimately, we can't do that on every script, but as part of your actor's work, it's well worth the time to do that so that you can bring that imagination back into the reality of your beliefs. Anne: Sure. Lau: And relive that, you know, relive those moments. Anne: What I like is, even if, alright, let's say you've got a very dry corporate narration script, right? Maybe a company talking about their corporate responsibility, which may not be the most exciting stuff that you'll ever hear in the world. So for me, I'm always telling people, in order to kind of make it sound conversational, and it may not be written conversational at all, or authentically, or it's basically like here, this is stuff that you would typically read. You wouldn't necessarily say it out loud. You would typically just read it and then understand it as information that the company has provided to you. Take that script and put it into your own words. So you might have this long run-on line that's talking about corporate responsibility and all of these things about what we are doing to promote corporate responsibility in the workplace. And so take that, those words, and just put it into your own words. And when you can take that sentence, which sometimes most of the time is a run-on sentence and formulate your own speech about it, or your own personal conversation about it to someone else, explain it to someone else, that's gonna give you the idea behind the melody and the point of view that you wanna take. And then all you do is, when you get in the booth, replace it with the words. But you have the intent, you have the point of view, you have the thought of, here, it's this idea, and then this idea, and then I'm gonna combine it with this idea. And then that's the finished sentence. So it's kind of allowing you to regroup the information that's presented in the sentence in a very structured way and creating it in your own authentic way. Lau: That's right. And you have to think of your work like you're layering a cake. You have the cake; to some degree, you have the cake. Even if you're at the beginning of your career, you still have some sort of cake. It might be a demo, it might be a beginner level studio, whatever it is. But I have to layer that over time and make it more interesting. So for instance, if I were to take my pen, my trusty prop, and talk about my corporate responsibility script, I might take a note on that. Because if I'm working in corporate, I'd be writing down minutes, I'd be taking notes as I went. And that puts me in a mindset, a frame. It gives me a framework to work by that when I'm corporate -- and this is just my choice, it's not the right choice, it's just my choice — when I'm corporate, I always tend to write a few notes. I tend to take a moment to write things down. That changes my sound, it changes my pace, it changes everything. Anne: So that physical action of writing something down — also, the fact is, is what would you write down? Right? If you had that big, long run on sentence, right? What are the notes that you would take? Right? Typically, those notes are the most important parts of the sentence, right? Those are the notes that you as an actor want to probably linger on a little longer. So when we talk about being authentic, and Lau, and I, when we're speaking, our pacing isn't the same. Sometimes I, I pause, like I just did, and sometimes my words are longer. And usually the ones that are are longer the ones I want her to hear more. And so when you're creating those notes, right, you're creating, this is an important point that I wanna express to someone. So that word can be a little bit longer than maybe the word the (laughs) or the word at the beginning. At the, at the, or just tiny little words that connect. Beginning is an important word. So at the beginning, notice how at the becomes almost like a, I don't know, a 16th note in melody if I was speaking vocally, but in the beginning, beginning is an important word, so I'm gonna linger on that. Lau: We can emphasize, you need to linger on that, right? If every word is the same, and every word is important, nothing's important. (laughs). Anne: Right? It sounds monotonous and robotic. Lau: Like what's important if every word is important, right? Anne: Right. Lau: But if I take that pen -- and to me this is a corporate moment or a business moment, or whatever you wanna call it-- I think maybe I'm gonna do bullets, how I would do in my life. I'd take a sentence, I'd take a thought, and I'd pull a word or two out of it that are my emphasis words, my bullets, and do like little bullets. and say, wow, out of that sentence, I got coffee. That was the word of the day for me, coffee as a bullet. So that when I go back and I review that for my speaking, I can remember, I can mark that coffee, that the word coffee or the name of the coffee is really an emphasis for me. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Lau: This helps me with that. Like, because then I'm gonna say coffee, like Starbucks coffee. Anne: Right. Lau: And I'm gonna use this. Anne: And the other thing too that I think is super important to remember is that we talked about you taking the script and going out into the real world with it, right, and start practicing with it and playing off of maybe someone else. Notice how you said, well, let's play off of someone else. I mean, when we started this podcast, you and I were talking to one another. We were engaging with one another. Lau: Yep. Anne: Well, when we're sitting here in our studios behind the mic with a script, you cannot be alone (laughs) just saying. In your head, you must be the person that is speaking. And you must also have your imaginary friend that you are speaking to. And so you want to make sure that you are engaging with that audience member or that listener. And so you must talk to them, and they will have reactions for you or questions or comments. Right? And you cannot just start talking to them like, oh gosh, have you ever had a friend, Lau, that you can't get a word on edgewise? Like, and it's basically all about yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, ya. It's all about them. Right? All about their monologue. And so when you're behind the mic, don't let it be all about your monologue. Let it be about you engaging with your listener and allowing that listener a beat to acknowledge, to respond, to have a question, whatever that is. And I'm not talking about you have to time things, but that's an imaginary beat where I've said something, and now Lau, I'm looking for you to respond, right? You just shook your head, right? You just went, mm-hmm. So that's where I think we need to also invite that into our script, right? And invite that real life into our script. Lau: You have to do it. It's so important. And have cheaters if you have trouble reaching that at times. Like in our daily life, we're not always great conversationalists, or we're not always in the mood for a talk or whatever. So you have to have those cheaters, whether you're talking to your kid or your dog, or a photo or a video or something that stimulates you into thinking, this is part of my daily experience. This is part of a reality of my life that I can connect to right now, that I can make real. Because I may not be in the mood or in the mindset every single day to connect to that particular audition or to connect to that particular product. Anne: What I love is like literally like now that I've sat here, and I'm taking notice and, and BOSSes out there, really, let's watch the YouTube video on this, because I was just watching you, Lau, and everything you said, you had your hands, everything you said, and I was responding. I was shaking my head, I was going, mm-hmm. So that's the parts that you have to play in your script. And believe it or not, even in a mundane medical narration script or in a telephone prompt, believe it or not -- I'm always imagining, here I am and I'm talking to the listener and they've got their thoughts about me (laughs). Because maybe they don't wanna listen to an automated attendant. Maybe they're angry, maybe they're frustrated. But yet I will still talk to them with a tone where I'm like, I know you're frustrated. I know that you don't wanna listen to my voice, but let me help you. Okay? And so that point of view, that intention — all of a sudden, I'm speaking about intentions so much lately -- I think that intention, before you even approach voicing or opening your mouth, I think your intention is so very important. Lau: So very important. And you know, in the script, in this context, it would be an actor's intention because you're in a false reality. You're not in your real reality; you're in this technical reality. Anne: Sure. Lau: But then you have intentions or purpose, or whatever you call it in your daily life and thinking about, wow, how much do I care about things? How much do I connect? How much do I try to make action happen and go well? Well, I have to bring that intention into the booth. I have to bring that into the booth. And I think if we were honest, we would say, in our daily life, half the stuff we do is crap. It's like chores. It's like, I have to go to the dump because I have -- Anne: I don't want to go to the dump. Lau: -- bring my trash. Right? (Anne laughs). But how do I have a joyous life still being able to go to the dump? Well, I keep the intention alive that it's not about me hating to go to the dump. It's about me wanting to have a clean and wonderful household. Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: That's really what it is. So it's the same with the script. if I have a disdain or I have a dislike for the delivery or for the language, or for the content -- Anne: Or the message, maybe. Right? Yeah. Lau: — then I'm skirting the intent. What's the intent? Oh, the intent is to get you to understand how this new product worked, or, or how the new program is gonna help your lifestyle. That's really what it is. It's like a, in acting, we call this the super intention, the super objective. Anne: Maybe this is the wrong way to phrase it, but I think intention can change throughout the script. So you don't come at the script in the first couple of sentences with a particular intention and it stays that same intention. Because a lot of times, right, we're there to tell a story. And so intention point of view changes along with the storyline. And if you're not necessarily reading that, right, or understanding that, then you're not doing a good job at telling the story. Lau, at the beginning when we were talking about coffee, I was like, oh, thank God, coffee. I was, was that sense of relief. And then we started talking about, well, my lipstick, I get excited, right? Lau: Yeah. Anne: So I have a different, and it may not be an extreme change in my emotion, but I talked about my lipstick. I'm like, it made me smile. Right? And so that was a different intention. And as we flowed with the conversation, our point of view changed. Our intention changed to help us to go along and flow with the storyline. Lau: Yeah, exactly. And I think that if you BOSSes listening in can have fun, you know, treat it like a board game, have fun with your actor friend, or your accountability buddy, or even with your husband — have fun and take a few minutes and say, okay, what are all the things I'm using in my world here that can be helpful to the delivery of the read? But, oh, wait a second. What's the intention? What's the intention of this? Why do I take a moment and put this on? There's a reason for it, there's a purpose for it, whatever that is. Why do I pick up my water bottle and drink it? Sure, it makes me feel good and it's delicious. But the intention is what, to hydrate. Anne: To be healthy. Lau: To to be healthy, right? Why do I drink my coffee cup if I'm delivering a script, right? It's not just for Anne to see that I'm drinking coffee. It's for me to feel energized, to feel warm, to feel connected. Coffee's a big psychological connector for a lot of people. Right? Anne: And notice all of the emotions that go along with that. I mean, that is something to really think about. I think that, you know, I'm always telling my students that there's a purpose for every word. Even if you don't agree with all of the words that are there, there's a purpose for them being on the paper. Somebody somewhere at some point thought about what they wanted to communicate, and all of those words have meaning. So to just read through them as if they didn't have meaning or any point of view, I think is a disservice. It's a disservice to the copy. It's a disservice to the story that you're telling. And so, no matter how nuanced it is, right? You don't have to be like, oh my God, I'm so happy! And then, oh, I'm very, very -- you know, it doesn't have to be that to be dramatic. Nothing has to be dramatic. As a matter of fact, the more nuanced you are, I think, the more you, you can really connect. And the people that are listening, they'll get that. And sometimes I feel like nuances mean more. I really believe that. Lau: Nuances are life. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: Right? Anne: And it can really, really have meaning. And so I say look for the meaning in the point of view. And the point of view to me is synonymous with bringing yourself to the copy. Bringing an emotion to the copy that is reflective of how you feel the company would like to bring that emotion out to the potential client. Lau: Anne, hold on one second. Hold on. I'm coughing. (laughs). Anne: All right, no problem. Lau: I love nuances though. I wanna say something about that. My intention (laughs). Anne: Now see, there's a real world moment there where Lau is actually having a little bit of a coughing spell and(laughs), see, and I've reacted to it. Show a little bit of concern. Lau: I don't mind if you show that too, Anne; I don't mind if you keep that in, because the intention sometimes changes with the same item. So we don't have to stay static on our intentions, is exactly what you saying. The nuance of being hydrated is important. We do it and we know it's important. But see how my intention changed? I had to get myself out of the coughing fit by dealing with the vocal folds quickly so that I could continue the conversation. So it deepened, the stakes got higher. It became much more important that I drank the water. Anne: Oh yeah. Absolutely. Lau: So the prop in itself changes. It changes, the intention gets deeper. You change it. You have the power, you have the superpower to take your environment and have it utilize it in your favor to solve your problem or to fill your need. Anne: And I think also -- so it goes beyond just like a surface — here are some words on a piece of paper. Let me read them and let me try to figure out what this company is saying. Like what we've done is we've actually brought in so many components of our real world experiences to help us to tell this story better. And I think it warrants, BOSSes, it warrants a little bit of time from you before you run in your studio and do your audition. I say this all the time, I feel like there's this, I don't know, a long time ago, there was like, somebody said, you must do this many auditions in a day. And all of a sudden we become like, I must get 60 auditions out a day in order to be successful in voiceover. And in reality, like getting 60 auditions out a day probably does nothing for your performance in terms of, if you're just so intent on rushing through them, and you're not thinking about what's the story? How am I going to bring this to life? And I believe it takes a few minutes of your time -- not a ton. You don't have to spend hours breaking apart a script. But you do need to spend a few minutes really kind of reading, rereading, trying to find out what is the true message. And again, I'm always saying, sometimes we will get auditions, and I'll be like, I have no idea what this is even talking about. Now when that happens, that means that Anne has to look at the script again and again, and really try to read those words. Do my Google, Anne GanGoogle, do my Google to find out what I can, if the product is listed or the company is listed, or even any phrase that seems like it might be a tagline, Google it. God, we are so lucky, right, to have that? Lau: So lucky. Anne: And to just try to understand what is the story? Because again, somebody was paid probably a good deal of money to sit down and write that story. And you just may not be privy to what product it is or what company it is. But you have to understand what that story is. And I think a lot of times, it's probably purposely vague because they wanna see who the actors are. (laughs). They wanna see who can bring those words alive and tell the story. And that requires our imagination. And every time I ask somebody to think about corporate and what's your moment before when you're gonna do this corporate responsibility -- everybody's like, what? Like, what do you mean? What's my moment before? Why would I ever say this? And you really must, because to somebody at that company, it's their heart. Like they're responsible, like their corporate responsibility is, this is their purpose. This is something probably that came very deep within, or I wanna say this, I mean, unless you're an evil company, right? I mean, but (laughs) for most companies, like my company mission, my company purpose, come from a very deep, deep within my soul because I formed that company because I believe that I had a product that would help someone. And that's what I like to believe about all corporate scripts. And that helps me, by the way, to get into a purposeful and positive mind frame, to be able to voice just about any corporate script. Because that's how I, I assume every founder or owner of a company must feel at some point like, I'm gonna form this company 'cause I have this great idea. This is gonna help people. And yeah, of course, maybe I can make some money too off of it. But I like to always consider the heart mission of a company or a product that. Lau: Love that. Because it's so easy to flatten out and just perfunctory-ize -- I think I just made up a new word. Perfunctory-ize, meaning just not come with any sense of joy, energy or imagination to something that you don't care about or you don't know about. But to understand, and this is to me the true empathy factor of nuance. Like to me, the more nuanced person -- like you're a tremendously nuanced person because you have a depth of understanding and knowledge and empathy -- Anne: Empathy is huge. Lau: — and what someone else is going through and living through. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And you don't have to necessarily know or have experienced it yourself. You just have the knowledge and the history behind you to know it is a truth. It is their truth. And so I have to take a little bit of time to find intention to represent their truth. And that's nuance right there. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I feel that. If somebody asked me what's the most important component as a voice actor that you can have? Or what's the most important thing to think about as a voice actor to be authentic and believable and real when you're voicing a script? I would say empathy. And empathy toward your listener. Who is your listener? What are their joys? What are their pains? How can you help them? And how can what you're saying make them feel better, look better, I don't know, make more money, make them healthier — whatever it is, come from a place of service?I just really believe that empathy is the one word that everybody should just have in their back pocket for a great read. Lau: Well, the more you give the more you do get. And sometimes the get is really like this inner true feeling, whatever that feeling is, that you then connect to the experience. And so you can bring that back to the experience. And so that's why I believe, you know, as actors and as vocal actors, we get addicted to the work, because we get addicted to the feeling of that authentic getting back. So the more we give, the more we potentially can get back. But we have to give true and authentic intention. And if we don't, then it's flat and it's kind of boring, and we fizzle out quickly; we get exhausted. Anne: Sure, sure. Lau: It's actually depleting. Anne: And I think, you know how I can always tell I have, I have a really great read is when I feel it. When I feel it. Lau: When you feel it. Right. Anne: But I feel it. Lau: Right. Anne: Because sometimes things just happen and it's just like, I don't know how that happened, but it just did. Lau: It just did. Anne: It was amazing. Right? Lau: That's the magic. Anne: That's the magic. And I wish that I had that for every single read that I do. And I think that as an actor is what I try to achieve, right -- Lau: Yeah. Anne: — is the feel it felt right. It felt good, it felt authentic and it felt believable. So I always try to tell people to just feel and not listen. And it's so hard to not listen because I think from a very young age, when I got behind the mic and all of a sudden my voice was amplified from that mic, right? Then I felt like, ooh, now I have to sound even better. And interestingly enough, that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for just the you that is amplified louder by a device that sits in front of you on a day-to-day basis. We're really just looking to connect with you. Lau: That's right. And I, I would say be careful of chasing the high. 'Cause a lot of people come in and whether it's the money or the feeling of excitement or whatever — don't get addicted to chasing the high or the dopamine kick. Just know it will be there at times for you. But you gotta like -- think of my analogy of like, you gotta take the trash to the dump. There's a lot of work, there's a lot of groundwork that happens in order for you to come back to the clean home and go, ooh, smells fresh. And I'm feeling good. So you can't get one without the other. You can't get the reward without the real work put in. Anne: Absolutely. What a great analogy, Lau. Like honestly, like we could just, just all go home now. Like take it to the dump (Lau laughs). BOSSes, take it to the dump, then come back. Lau: Take it to the dump. Anne: Take it to the dump and come back refreshed. I love it. Lau, what a really cool discussion. Thank you so much. Lau: My pleasure. Anne: BOSSes as individuals, you know, sometimes it can seem difficult to make a huge impact, but of course we've been talking with Lau today and how we can make an impact. Well, if you ever wished that you could make more of an impact with your communities in ways that you never before thought possible, find out at 100voiceswhocare.org. And thank you so much to ipDTL that allows Lau and I to connect and have these amazing conversations. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Are you looking to create a standout voiceover demo? Look no further! Anne and Lau provide insights into the process, emphasizing the importance of custom-written copy, a team approach, and a unique story. They explore the significance of target marketing your demo for different types of work and also discuss the ideal length for different types of demos and the value of breaking them into individual segments on your website for easy navigation. They also discuss the importance of keeping demos contemporary and relevant to current trends and emphasize the need for a strong opening and a range of styles throughout your demo. Interested in learning more? Don't miss this episode... Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Lau: Hey Anne. Anne: Hey Lau. How are you? Lau: I'm awesome. Great to be back. Anne: Ah, it's good to have you back Lau. Lau: Okay, here's the situation. Ready? Here we go. You just bought a car, and you're picking it up for the first time. They even sprayed that new car smell. And it's shining and gorgeous. Had a little bow on top. Give me a moment of pre-life. Like what's the exclamation you make before you speak? Anne: (screams) Oh my God, I'm so excited! I can't wait to get my car today! Lau: Oh, and I would do this. I would go, ooooh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to get my car today. Anne: I think it was important. I had some good physicality back there behind my mic here. Lau: We both did. We both were like exploding. Anne: So what is that, BOSSes? What are we talking about? Mmm? Lau: Mmm, I think that's improv city right there. Improv. Anne: Improv. So, so important to everything we do. I'm gonna say so important because, it really helps us. Would you say Lau, 90%, if not more, of casting specs are calling for believable, authentic, real? And I think honestly, in order for us to be real (laughs), improv is so very important to be able to create what's happening in the scene, your reaction, your emotion. I mean, that's really what makes us stand out from all the other people auditioning. Right? Lau: Right. I mean, speakers in the larger world outside of our industry, call it impromptu speaking, being able to think off the cuff, think on your feet, being able to think on the fly. Every time you hear someone say that, we know it's a tough skill for people. We know it's not a natural ability for most people to be under these unnatural circumstances and just think on the fly. Right? But it's a great tool, right, for voiceover talent to be able to do that. Anne: And you need it for everything. Guys, I don't want you to think that this is just for, I don't know, video games or character animation. You need improv for everything you do, including medical narration. Just saying. I'm like the biggest proponent of being in the scene, because we are so used to -- I think, those of you that just got into voiceover and you don't necessarily have acting experience — we're so used to picking up a piece of paper with words and reading the words out loud, and listen to what I just said. We're used to taking a look at the piece of paper and reading the words out loud. And that's what you don't wanna do, right, as a voiceover actor. You want to be in a scene. You want to sound as if you are there and speaking authentically and naturally and believably. And so you can't just pick up a piece of paper with words that you've never seen before and just read them from left to right. You always have to put yourself in a scene. And that includes -- gosh, when I'm doing telephony script, and I'm saying thank you for calling. Like I put myself in a scene. I want people to really feel as though I'm thankful that they've called me (laughs). And improv helps me do that. Lau: Yes. And you know, a lot of times people will say to me, but Lau, I don't get it. Like, I can't improv as a voiceover talent. Everything is scripted. They're never gonna ask me to improv when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing a gig. So why do I need to know this? I say, well, wait a second. What about all your prep time? You and I were just talking about this, Anne, how important it is to think of yourselves as an actor. You're a voice actor; you're acting a role. So when you're acting, you have to have technique, tools and technique to call upon to find your character development. How do I find that? So improvisation is a tool that helps us find the authentic, true character, sound, connection, quality, tones. It helps us find that. And then once we find it, we can pull it out like just outta your toolbox. You can pull it out whenever you wanna use it. And just that exercise we just did right now, the pre-life of exclamation, just that can potentially book you a gig. Anne: Oh gosh, yes. And it's so interesting because I tell my students all the time, I'm like, okay, what's your moment before? Right? And I could be referencing a script that is the driest corporate narration script in the world. And it makes no sense because in the real world, I would never say these words. And that's what I constantly get from -- I would never say these words in the real world. But okay, we're not in the real world. Okay? We're acting. And we need to create the world in which those words would sound natural. And even if they're not written naturally, you have to create the scene. And that I think, is so important. You're not preparing the script to sound a particular way. You can read the specs, and they're like, oh, we want youthful, millennial, or maybe sound with gravitas. Stop preparing that sound. What you need to do is to prepare the character, prepare the scene, prepare what's happening that's going to make you react, right, in such a way. that might portray those characteristics that are being called out. And I have so many students that get frustrated. I'll say, what's your moment before? And they'll be like, uh, I have no clue. Like, doesn't say anything in the script. Guess what, guys? Here's where you got — your imagination comes into play, right? Lau: Yes. Anne: So important. The imagination in developing a scene, develop a scene that makes sense to you. Lau: Yes. And improv is an acting tool. It's an actor technique. And it's very challenging to do improv and be lazy. Like you can't be lazy and do improv well, because you're talking imagination. It has to kick in and connect. And oftentimes that requires energy, focus and speed in order to do that. And it's hard to do it if you're not engaged, if you're tired, if you're lazy, if you're disconnected. We oftentimes will get feedback for an actor from like casting that will say, ah, I don't like it. They feel disconnected, they don't feel connected somehow. And I always think of improv, 'cause improv is a wonderful source of connection to another person. How do we credibly and authentically connect to another person? Well, we practice it. It sounds like an oxymoron. You have to practice improv, but you do. You do. Anne: You do. Absolutely. Lau: You have to practice that skill. Right, Anne? Anne: Absolutely. And the improv doesn't just happen at the beginning of the script. It's not just something you do to give yourself some pre-roll. Okay? Because if you start a script, and I say this constantly, especially with long format narration, when you are voicing something for a long period of time, you're in a scene, you need to stay in that scene. You can't just create the scene and then just read. Right? Because all too often people will create the scene, they'll be at the start of it, and then they will do a monologue. It becomes a monologue where they forget that there might be other things happening in the scene, or there might be other people in the scene that they're acting with. And just because they're behind the mic, right, and they're not physically there -- like if they were on stage, it would be easy to see that you're with somebody, right? And you're bouncing ideas off of somebody, and it's a back and forth, like a real improv class or a workshop. But behind the mic, I think we tend to forget that there's other people in that scene with us. There's other things happening. There's movement. And if you are in a monologue, right -- I feel like monologues, unless they're extremely well written, right, are not as engaging (laughs) unless they're extremely well written. There are a lot of scripts that are not necessarily written for monologue. Right? It's like, here's my speech on this product, and you know what I mean? Like, here's my monologue about the product. Now how engaging is that? Right? If somebody's not interested in the product, you have to get them interested in the product. It has to be a story. And that story has to happen in between the sentences too. Right? You cannot stop just at the beginning. Lau: Okay, I have a great improv. I have a great improv based off what you just said. All right. Peeps, listen in. Sell the product, whatever it is that is on your script. Sell the product or service. And do it completely in your own words. Like get rid of the script. Completely re-envision it. But remember, it's not just about saying the words or the lines. You have to persuade us. Like you have to make it feel like this is something that's super important to you, that you believe in and that you want us to know about. Right? So whether it's like a blouse or a car, or a cheese, or whatever it is, I would love to hear you talk about that from your own perspective, your own point of view, and really connect to it. And a lot of times, I know you get this, Anne, in coaching too, "but I don't, I don't eat cheese," "I don't wear blouses; I'm a guy," and"I don't drive cars." Especially like that. Anne: Yeah. I don't care much about the brand. I always get people that say, yeah, no, I don't really worry about brands. I'm like, okay. But for a living, you might be selling a particular brand. And so it's important, right, that you're educated about the brand, or you have to have some interest in it. You have to have some passion in it. And by passion, I don't mean overextended passion or over the top passion, unless it's called for, right, in the script. Because a lot of times for us to be believable and authentic, we have to sound authentic. So am I constantly like, oh my God, this product is amazing! I mean, I can't be that. Right? I can't. But I need to be as authentic as I can in my improv, right, in selling that product. Lau: Well, you know, we should do, Anne? We should demo, we should do a quick demo. We should take something like a, an object, a simple object. We should have like a a 15 or 30-second conversation about that object. Anne: Okay. So I always (laughs), I always have my lipstick. Okay. I always have my product here. Lau: Okay. And the listener, maybe someone who doesn't wear a lipstick or doesn't care about lipstick, or maybe you're a man listening in, you don't ever -- okay, that's fine. But we're gonna have a conversation right now, Anne, about that. And it's all improv, right? Anne: Okay, okay. So Lau. All right, so this Chanel, okay, typically inexpensive brand, right? Typically, most people will say, oh, it's way — this, this lipstick might be way overpriced. However, for me, I love this lipstick. I love this lipstick because I only have to put it on once. And so to me, the savings of time for this is amazing. I don't have to continually reapply my lipstick. I can drink water, I can eat, and I don't have to put it on over and over again. And it just stays on and it looks good. What are your thoughts? Would you, would you pay, would you pay $34 for this? Lau: I would pay more than that, because I'm looking at it on your lips right now, and it's gorgeous. I love the gloss, I love the staying power. The color matches your skin tone perfectly. Anne: And look, I can drink. Lau: I love it. And you can drink, right? And it probably doesn't even leave residue on the cup. Anne: And it's still there. And it doesn't feel dry. Lau: It's still there. Anne: It doesn't feel dry. Lau: And I think it's economical for what it's offering you. Anne: Well, right? Lau: I would get it. Anne: My time is worth money, right? And if it, and if this is gonna save me time, right, from reapplying lipstick, or if it's gonna give me confidence because I feel like, oh God, you know how some lipstick will just kind of, you know, come off your lips, and you'll only have like a portion of on your lips, and then all of a sudden you get in the car and you look at yourself in the rearview mirror and you're like, oh my God! (laughs), my lips look horrible. Lau: They're gone. Anne: Why didn't, why didn't my best friend tell me about that? So this, I don't have to worry about that. And so the ease, my mind being eased that I don't have to worry that it's come off and it's flaked off and it looks weird, or it's, God forbid, it's on my teeth. (laughs). No, it doesn't happen. Lau: You took the words right outta my mouth. I was gonna say, your lipstick is never on your teeth. I'm impressed by that alone, and the fact that it's not all over your face like mine can be, by the end of the day, my lips are all over, you know, everywhere. So I, I just think that it's very cool for you to hold on to this and not go to other products, but really stay with it. Because it works, right? Anne: Have I convinced you? Lau: Now here's the thing. It's like, we do this in our daily life, right? We do this every day in our daily life. Anne: That was improv. That was -- by the way, BOSSes, that was improv by the way. Lau: That's all improv. Anne: And that, I think if you are absolutely thinking about how would I sell this product? Like how would I voice this product? I mean, you can just riff (laughs), you know, I really love this product because it's amazing. And the funny thing is, is that Lau, you and I had a back and forth. And I think for improv, you have to also improv, if you don't have anybody with you and you are trying to improv your audition, I think you create that second person that you're having the conversation with. It's very much a technique that I use to sound conversational and just sound natural or believable, is to actually play a part with somebody else. Because that's what you would do -- if you had a script and you were on stage, you'd be able to bounce your ideas back and forth. There would be an acknowledgement or a smile, or a nod or a conversation between two people. And so you have that movement, you have that scene that you can then improv, right? And once you improv, your voice takes on, especially like with you and I, it takes on the emotion and the point of view, which really, really brings out a script versus a read. This lipstick is wonderful, right? Versus, I mean, I'm like a robot saying that, but when I'm really like, oh, this is amazing, this is wonderful — it completely shows up in my voice. And so the fact that I've created in my mind this improv back and forth with my imaginary person that I'm telling about this lipstick is really makes all the difference. Lau: It does. It does, Anne, because that's the power of improv. It's the personalization of it. When you're gonna say to me, but I don't use lipstick, Lau. I don't wear makeup -- I'd say, that's okay. Now let's engage your imagination. What if, — the magic "what if," right? Stanislavsky's magic if -- what if you did wear makeup? What if you did wear lipstick? You know, when you were a little kid, you thought that way. And you weren't wearing lipstick or makeup (laughs).That's the irony, right? Anne: And here's the deal. Transfer this lipstick into, let's say, a Halloween costume, right? You put green on your face if you were gonna be be the Incredible Hulk or, whatever that is, right? So consider that, make that part of your imaginative world, right? And how did that make you feel? I think there's always that, like, did it make you feel confident? Did it make you feel good? Were you excited to go show that off to your friends? And how does that translate in your voice? How does that make you sound — first of all, it's gonna make you sound connected, right? Because when you're disconnected from the material, right, there's no emotion flowing in that voice. There's no emotion in that word. There's so many technical things that happen to words when you inflect an emotion onto them, or a point of view, right? So it's like, this is amazing. Like just the fact, amazing. Like I, it's not like I didn't say, this is amazing. No. I said, this is amazing. And so the rhythm changed, the intonation changed, so many technical things changed about my voice. And that is something when a casting director is listening to you, right? That is going to hit their ears and go, ah, there's an actor. And I swear to God, right? We know, for the first few words out of the mouth, we know if you're acting. Lau: Oh, yeah. Anne: Right? Lau: Oh, yeah. And start with something that is known to you, personalize it to you, like give yourself a quick scenario that you lived, that you know, if it's possible. So let's go back to the lipstick, Anne. Let's say I'm a man, right? Or someone who doesn't wear lipstick or whatever. Okay. But my favorite aunt wears lipstick, and every time she would kiss me, I would literally smell it. I would smell the lipstick, I would notice the color of it. I always think of that color when I think of my aunt. So I'm personalizing it into something I know, and something that means something to me so that I can go into other scenarios that are a bit farther away from me. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: But if I don't start with any frame of reference at all, then I get that falseness, I get that falsehood of like, let me just sound like I love lipstick. Anne: This lipstick — yeah, exactly. And I think that voice actors, if you're just getting into the industry and you're not realizing just how important this is to really make your auditions stand out and make you connect with the copy -- it's incredibly, incredibly important that you spend time. Like I know so many people are like, oh, I did 60 auditions today, or I did a billion auditions today. Well, I want you to take five minutes before you start, before anything comes out of your mouth (laughs). And I want you to first of all, research the product. If you know what the product is. Sometimes you don't know what the product is. Sometimes the script is obscure and you're not exactly sure what it is. And that makes it even more challenging for you to improv, right? Because you're trying to figure out what is this even talking about? And I know that's just the case for a lot of audition scripts that come along and we don't know what it's even talking about. So then what we have to do is look at that script even closer. Every single word on that script has a meaning. And it may seem that you have no idea what it's talking about, and it's ridiculous. But honestly, somebody was paid probably a lot of money (laughs) to sit there and write every single word to create that brand message or to get that brand message out. And you need to really look at those words and think, what do they mean? What could it mean? And can I improv a scene, right, so that they would sound logical and realistic and have meaning and create emotion? Lau: Absolutely. And let's say you don't do this at all. Let's say you say, I can't do improv at all. I can just do the lines --do this. This is a very famous actor method. Do substitution. Like how do I get to something personal? Let me take this little thing of lipstick. I have my own on my side, lipstick on my side. And this is no longer a lipstick. What this is to me is an EpiPen. So this EpiPen can save my child's life when she has a problem and get stung by a bee. And you say, well, how does that work? It's lipstick. I said, well, I can still do an improv with Anne and talk about this as if it's an EpiPen, but it'll sound like, I can't live without this. I really can't live without this. I always have this in my cabinet ready to go. Day or night, it goes with me. And you'd think I was talking about the lipstick. But I'm really talking about the EpiPen. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Lau: Try that in terms of your improv in your daily life, when you need to connect with someone's situation, someone's stuff that they're bringing up that you don't really have any idea about. You haven't lived through it, you don't use it. You don't know about it. And you ask them questions about it. But think about what that is to you in your life. What's the substitution in your life that connects to what they're talking about? That's how powerful improv can be. It can make you friends. It can win you jobs. It can make you a lot of money. Anne: And something else that can help you -- I feel like I see this every episode, Lau — Google is your friend. Anne GanGoogle, right? Google is your friend. Like if you, if there's any indication of what you're talking about in the script, or there's words in there that you're not sure what it's even about, Google. I mean, I can't tell you how helpful it is to --if you're not familiar with the brand and the brand name is there, you can go to the website, and you'll get a great visual representation of what that is and who they might serve. And that will also help you to place your improv and place your scene in a place that's logical. I mean, it has to be logical, right? I mean, you want it to sound natural and believable. And so you should have a little bit of education about the product or the company, or maybe what's their demographic? Are they selling to young people? Are they selling to a more mature audience? And that can help inform the scene for you that you are going to create. But you must, you must use your brain. And it's not easy, right? It is sometimes it is. Like I rack my brain trying to figure out what is this saying? Like I don't even know. This is so ethereal and so out there that I don't even know what this is saying. But I, I find that if I keep rereading the lines, somewhere along the line, if I look at the important nouns, if I look at the objects, if I look at the emotion of it all, I can really read more into it to try to figure out, okay, this would make sense. Now, if this was a storyline where somebody was upset that something wasn't going right, and this product -- like the EpiPen, right -- was truly meaningful and could really help save a life. And so I think if you just continually look at the words, see how the words fit together, and then if you have any clues whatsoever in the script, go ahead and Google it. And that's gonna help you find out maybe what the brand is. What do they actually do? Do they serve multiple demographics? What are the colors? I mean, you can just go into like the visually, what are the colors on the website? What is their tone of voice on the webpage? You know, the verbiage on the webpage? How do they approach their clients? And I think that will really help to help you build the scene that you must improv. Lau: Yeah. And if you go to their YouTube channel, you're gonna see visuals of what the culture is like, what the sound, feeling, environment is like. I mean, put yourself in that environment. That's the old actor Johnny Depp type exercise where the method actors would always go to the place that their character is in and just feel what the place feels like. Well that's kind of important because if I'm doing a lot of corporate work, and I'm getting a lot of corporate narration or corporate scripts, and I've never worked in corporate America, and I have no idea what it's like, just go somewhere, be in a big tall glass building with people who wear suits and see what it feels like, right? See what they eat and drink, hear how they talk. Or just go to a Starbucks. You'll see 'em in Starbucks, hear how they talk. So that you're not necessarily mimicking them, but you're getting an essence, a suggestion of where you wanna head towards that may be very different from your world and your existence. You wanna talk the lingo, have a sense of that. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. You wanna be able to align to the environment, right? And I think, Lau, if I said to you, is improv important in promos? Lau: Improv is important in everything, Anne: Right. So why? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm thinking my students would be like, yeah, but you don't really need to improv in a promo, or you don't need to improv when you're doing a phone system. And I would tend to disagree with you heartily. I think improv is needed everywhere. I'd like your take on that, Lau. Lau: I agree. As I said, I think it's an immense tool to find your interpretation. Like if I'm gonna give more than one take, or let's say I'm just dealing with an in-house client. I'm not auditioning; they're just calling me and I'm giving them takes, I'm gonna say, wait a second, who's calling? Like, who are the people that are calling? What if I have an impatient person calling going to the system, right? I have a person who's a seller or pitcher calling? What if I have a young teenage person calling the system? How am I coming across to them? How would I speak to them differently and what their different needs are? That would be an improv tool that I would start to be utilizing in that telephony or whatever system. Anne: And if you're a voice for a healthcare system, right? Okay, somebody's calling for an appointment, right? They're nervous, they're not feeling well, or you know what I mean? They want the results of their test. Understand who it is that you are going to be talking to, right, and then talk to them. I always say that when I read the back of pharmaceutical labels, I do medical narration, and I want to be able to speak to that person who is nervously looking at the back of the bottle and saying, oh my God, I have all of these symptoms. That's me, by the way. I have every single symptom ever known. And who do I call in case I die? That kind of thing. I'm taking that lightly, but I really do think about the person that's going to be looking at this bottle and what I'm voicing and I'm improv-ing, right? I'm playing that scene out in my head so that I can voice it better. And so that's for medical narration, and for promos, you know, tonight, like if you're doing like a television promos, right? Still, you've gotta get into the mindset of who's the audience that watches this show, and how can you -- hey, oh my God, did you catch the latest episode of — that kind of thing? You've got to get into their mindset 'cause you're talking to them. And that is where improv will come into play, right? Know that network, know that show. Be the person that watches that show and talk to them. Lau: And if anything, if you don't believe in anything we're saying, just talk and listen to people talking because that's one big, huge improvisation. Conversation is just one big, huge improv. Life is one big, huge improv 'cause we don't really know what's coming up next. So you don't have to perform, you don't have to act, you don't have to do anything other than listen, observe and communicate. Because then you're improv-ing. Anne: And I will tell you that every other month, or at least once a quarter, if you join the VO Peeps, we do have a workshop that covers improv. We do it. I think it's necessary to continually just keep your skills up. And I know, Lau, I'm sure you have something is part of your group as well? Lau: We do. We have a Monday night improv mania that runs. It's a lot of actors, a lot of VO talent. A lot of people come in, even just people who are in business come in and they just want to -- Anne: And it's so much fun. Lau: Fun. Yeah. They wanna free themselves, wanna be free. Anne: And that's the thing. Yeah, improv should be fun. It shouldn't be stressful. And the only way that you're gonna make it fun is by doing it really. And just getting yourself used to it and getting those responses quicker and quicker and quicker. And thinking off the cuff. And it will always help you especially — I've just had a conversation with Dave Fennoy talking about video games. You know, the storyline and video games is constantly evolving and changing. Improv is huge. You may prepare your character for one set of scenes, and then when you get to the studio to record somebody's changed the script on you. And that could be for video games, that could be for commercial, it could be for any script where you might have last minute changes. So I think it's so important, guys, that we are well-versed in improv, know how important it is and go out there and practice it. Lau: I love it. Here we go. Ready for the improv of life. Anne: The Improv of life. You guys, I'm gonna give a great big sponsor shout-out to ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also want to give a shout-out to 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Thanks so much, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

If you're new to the voice over industry, there's a lot to learn. Luckily there are plenty of resources out there that can help you get your bearings and start building your career. Anne is joined by special guest Tracy Lindley, a voice actor & expert on utilizing LinkedIn as a marketing tool for voice actors. On LinkedIn, it's all about relationships—and not just with other actors. Remember to focus on fostering genuine connections and optimizing your online presence to attract potential clients. With persistence and the right strategies, you'll be well on your way to establishing a thriving career in voice acting. Stay engaged, keep learning, and watch your network—and opportunities—grow. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm excited to bring very special guest, Tracy Lindley to the podcast. Hey Tracy. Tracy: Hey Ann. How's it going? Anne: It's going great. So a little bit about Tracy. Tracy's been a full-time voice actor since 2014 -- we are kind of twinsies on that one -- and regularly voices projects for clients like Hewitt Packard, Realtor.com, iHeartRadio, Health.com, and many others. She is a well known expert in the field of LinkedIn and finding clients and is also a mom to four kids, ages 7 to 13, who also do voiceover. And she lives in the Midwest area where it's very cold right now. Tracy: Yes, I'm bundled up in a sweater. Anne: Well, Tracy, I am so excited to finally have you here on the show. I feel like we're like ships that pass in the night because I've been following you for such a long time, and I've seen you at conferences, but we've just kind of like passed each other by. Tracy: I bet I've been following you for longer because I remember when I was first starting out, you had a great interview on VO Buzz Weekly that I watched. Anne: Oh, I remember that. Yeah. Tracy: Yes. It was a wonderful two-part interview and I learned so much, and I was like, man, she is just dropping truth bombs on here. Anne: Well, thank you that I'm very honored about that. My goodness. But you, I mean, my gosh, you are just blazing this path to the stars with your career, and really in the last couple of years, you are absolutely the known person outside of being great in voiceover and talented, but also all about marketing and LinkedIn. And so I'm excited to talk to you about that today, because I was much more involved in LinkedIn a few years back. And then my business kind of, I have separate paths. Now, I'm not as able to keep up as much as I'd like on LinkedIn, so I'm getting ready to learn a whole lot, and BOSSes, I think you're gonna learn a whole lot from this wonderful, wonderful talent here. So let's get going. Before we talk about LinkedIn, tell us a little bit about your journey into voiceover. Tracy: Well, it started out with me just hanging out, washing dishes in my kitchen, listening to VO Buzz Weekly and other great podcasts like VO BOSS, which is on the resource page that I have on my website to recommend to other talent that are learning. Anne: Thank you. Tracy: Because you are always giving us value and you have since the very beginning, and I've learned so much from you. You are a wiz at marketing yourself and a great person just relationally. You know how to connect the dots and how to communicate very well. Anne: Well, thank you for that. Tracy: Oh, well you're welcome. I mean, part of the fun of being on podcasts is getting to tell people how much I enjoy them personally because I'm very relational myself, and I think think that if someone was just starting out in the industry, I feel like the best way to get started is to research. And that's what I tell everybody. Research, research, research. Read the articles, listen to the podcasts, watch the vlogs. Do all of those things. And there are some great paid courses too. I recommend all of that stuff because you can't just learn in bits and pieces so much. Sometimes you need to kind of put it all together, and we all connect those dots as we're going along in our journey. But I can't remember now what your original question is. Oh my. My journey. Anne: Your journey. Yes. Your journey. Because you've been doing this a long time. I think we started around the same time actually, and I was working part-time for a little bit before I went into it full-time. Were you always in it full-time or did you? Tracy: No. Anne: Okay. So you started part-time. Tracy: I was a claims adjuster for an auto insurance company. And I know you were, from your story, you were working on installing telephone systems, right? Anne: Yep, absolutely. Tracy: And that's how you got your start was hey, they needed a voice to be on the systems. And for me, I have a communication degree, and when I was in college, I had an internship at a cable company and one day the producer just handed me a piece of paper and was like, hey, you have a nice voice. Will you read this? I'm like, okay, sure. . So I read it, I get in there, it's no more than a small closet with foam in it in a microphone, right? So it's nothing fancy. So I go in there and I read it, and I just found that I have this natural sense of timing. I knew what 30 seconds should be. And that goes back even further to me just reading out loud to kids at the library when I was like 12, 13, 14. I just volunteered my time, and I was always like the babysitter that everybody wanted to come and hang out with their kids. So I have read to kids out loud several years of my life and still love reading out loud to my own kids. Reading out loud is such a skill that we don't realize we need to develop. Because when we're reading a book, you know, we're not gonna typically read out loud to ourselves. So sometimes it feels weird and it feels strange, but that's one of the best skills that we can learn when we're getting into into the industry. Anne: Oh yeah. That's like cold reading skills right there. And I remember myself as a youngster, I would always be that person that would raise the hand -- who wants to read out loud for the class? Tracy: Yes. Anne: Me. And I wrote books too when I was really young. When I was in kindergarten, I learned to write, and I started to write books and I read them to the first graders, and it was all about Nibbles the Bunny. But I think that maybe that was so long ago though. Tracy: Okay. I feel like -- Anne: That was like my start . Tracy: -- we have got to publish these books. The world needs to see Nibbles the Bunny. Anne: I'm telling you -- Tracy: Have you considered that? Anne: ? I wish. I wish that I had a picture of it or a record of what it was that I wrote, but I vividly remember drawing the bunny. I illustrated too. And then I wrote the books, and I was so proud to read them, and all of my career, and I know yours too, I think a lot of voice actors when they get into it, they're good cold readers, or they've always been like excited to read or perform in front of an audience. And it's wonderful for your cold reading skills. And then I think what happens is, as we really get into the acting of voiceover, then it becomes something where you don't wanna use that as a crutch. You wanna use it to get yourself to quickly get into the story, but then you need to act. And then if you're reading too much and then it's gonna sound like you're reading too much, but I digress. But I think it's a wonderful skill that everybody needs in order to just, you know, be quick on their feet. Once you get those script changes that come in like at the last minute, you've gotta be able to do a quick cold read and understand and comprehend that story so that you can then tell it back while you're voicing it. Tracy: Yeah. Yeah. And it's really important to have that -- that child doesn't have those inhibitions that we do as adults. So I feel like if we could just tap into our inner child, we wouldn't be scared of it, you know, because we can all get performance anxiety, especially the more and more and more people come into the room to listen to us perform, it just becomes so scary. So it really all comes down to just reading out loud, having fun with it, telling a story. That's what we're here for. Anne: Absolutely. Now this is a little earlier than I was gonna get into it, but you're a mom of four kids, so big family. I'm also one of four in the family. Actually through the pandemic I became one of six and that's just a whole 'notherpodcast where I found out I had a brother and a sister, which is a wonderful thing. But I loved being a family where we're close in age. Tell me about your family, 'cause they're also doing voiceover, and I love how you just talked about how we need to be kids, we need to feel uninhibited. And so do you work with your kids and then also learn from them as well or be reminded of that as well? Tracy: Oh gosh, I'm always learning lessons from them. And a lot of those lessons involve being patient and being a good communicator, breaking down what I need from you and saying it nicely. . Anne: Oh yeah. And hey, that works in marketing too, right? . Tracy: Yeah, that's true. I mean direct communication, but doing it kindly is I think a big key to marketing effectively. Anne: Yeah. Tracy: But my kids are always teaching me stuff. Like last night, my daughter, she's nine, she's the middle daughter'cause I have a son and then three girls. Anne: Okay. Tracy: So the middle daughter is right in that sweet spot. You see a lot of auditions that come through 8 to 10, 8 to 10. So she's right there. She's also recently started taking vocal lessons. They do coach as well. Martha Khan is an excellent teacher for kids. Love her, my kids love her. But my daughters, all four of the kids actually take piano lessons, so -- Anne: I did too. Tracy: Oh yes. It's great. We need that musicality. Anne: It's so wonderful. Yes, absolutely. And I use that musicality when I coach as well because there's a melody to conversation. There's a melody in which most people are trying to achieve that natural, conversational, authentic, and there's a melody to it, believe it or not, if you break it down, so. Tracy: Were you a vocalist as well? Or are you still? Anne: Yeah, I mean I don't sing professionally, but you know, I sing in the shower, but for the longest time I was in choir for all four years of high school and went to the all-states and the all-counties and absolutely. I still love, love to sing. And it is something that, and playing piano, understanding where your notes are and being able to read music, it greatly helped breaking down the performance of a conversation. And so yeah. It's the basis of how I teach a lot actually. 'cause there's a lot of people who are musical that come into this industry. So piano's wonderful. Tracy: Yeah, they really have an advantage. I took lessons, uh, piano lessons for seven years as well. And I definitely see a lot of legato, staccato. Anne: Yes. Tracy: Those are pretty big themes in what we do. Anne: Yeah. Tracy: And also understanding how to translate what the client is saying. I actually see sort of musically in my head. Anne: Oh yeah, there's a rhythm. There's definitely a rhythm to it and a beat. And also the emotional part of it too, right, the emotion that gets put into it and the passion that gets put into it. Words are notes and really it's phrasing is very similar, right? We don't breathe in the middle of our phrases when we talk. It's not like I'm going to talk to you like this. You know, , it's, yeah. There's just a whole composition to it and, and I believe in my demo production too, it's a storyline from beginning to end. So it's amazing how much music plays into, at least how I identify and can work within voiceover and also coach it. Tracy: Yes. Imagination too. We've got to again tap into that inner child where we're able to let ourselves go into the story and become the character. Anne: Oh yes. Tracy: My daughter and I both have -- my older daughter, my 11-year-old, she loves like fairy tales, princess stories, anything that involves, you know, that kind of fantasy world. And right now I cannot get her nose out of this book that she's reading. It's the Ella Enchanted author. I can't remember -- her last name is Levine. Anyway, caught her reading by the light of the nightlight last night when she's supposed to be sleeping. But that kind of joy for the story Yeah. Is what we need as adults. And that's another thing that I was talking to my daughter last night with the auditions is that --'cause they needed her to do some giggles. And sometimes it's hard to get kids to laugh on command, and I'll tickle 'emand I'll do whatever I need to, but I'm just like, pretend you're having fun with your friends. I want you to think about the best day. I want you to think about when you do your gymnastics and you just, you love life and let it bubble up and come out of you. So she's still working on that. She's a little nervous in front of the mic still. But it's all part of the journey. So I do learn a ton from my kids. That's a great question that I don't think everyone's ever really asked me before. Anne: Oh, and you know what's so funny is that when I was teaching, of course I worked in high school, I learned so much, probably more from the kids than they might've learned from me. I mean, my hope was to inspire and motivate them, but boy did I learn a whole lot from them. It's why I coach today because I really feel that give and take, and I can completely understand when you're working with your children. Like it's such a wonderful give and take when you're experiencing that together, and you're learning together and you're guiding her and hopefully getting her super excited to just excel at voiceover, and so great for you. Now how do you find the time? There's the, the question probably everybody asks you, because I was part of a four child family and I know how busy my mom was. She was constantly carting me everywhere to my piano lessons or whatever that was. I also rode horses, but it was a crazy busy time for my mom. So how do you do it all? Tracy: I just really think time management's important, but also just understanding boundaries. I have worked for many years without my kids being away and with having really limited childcare hours. Because I love my kids and I want to spend time with them. So everything I teach, I say do it in the cracks of life. There's always little windows and bits, and if you can take that, you can actually concentrate it and do more in that time. I've found that since my kids, all four of them, are in school full-time, I have to really reign myself in and plan my day more consecutively to where I'm using it more effectively. Because when I just had two hours and a day to work during nap time, boy, I really hustled. And I really focused on marketing on LinkedIn. That was the thing that I needed to do. I have not enjoyed endless auditioning. That's not something that really floats my boat. I don't love it. Anne: I don't either. Tracy: I do auditions. Yeah. And actually, actually I joined Bodalgo. Anne: Did I say that? Yeah. Don't either. Tracy: We have to do what we have to do. Anne: I know. Tracy: But I don't hardly audition on Voice123 because there's just so many and there's so many people. But I do love of course agents, I will audition everything that I feel is appropriate -- Anne: Yes. Absolutely. Tracy: -- for my -- absolutely. So agents, current clients that maybe they need three choices to send to their end person. Yeah. Or some of the different production houses that I'm part of, they'll need auditions and Bodalgo. But really that's it. Most of the time it's directly communicating with the client 'cause that is where I really enjoy. Anne: Yeah, I love that. And you know, that's so interesting 'cause I feel that we're kind of like soul sisters in that area because right now, the way that I have -- I'm doing a lot of things. I mean, I'm doing this podcast, I'm doing a VO Peeps group and I also coach and I do voiceover, so I don't have a ton of time to devote to auditioning. And so for me it was more about the direct marketing. One of the things that I developed because I didn't have a ton of time, was the BOSS Blast, which was a direct marketing to a list. And that makes total sense that for you, you would go and use LinkedIn or use whatever social platform that worked for you to get those jobs directly because that kind of bypasses a lot of times the need for an audition. And also I, I would imagine, I'm gonna talk to you about that, like what search engine optimization has to do in LinkedIn that helps you get found, and people maybe reach out to you, and then if they hear your demo or you've got samples up there, I would imagine that then they just say, have an inquiry and say how much would it cost to do this? And for me that's the time saver where I don't have to audition. And it's not that I won't audition, but it's just that I don't have a ton of time. So I had to get more efficient at my marketing. So then let's talk about LinkedIn. Now, why LinkedIn, first of all for you and not some other social platform? Tracy: Well, I mean the other ones are fun, but when people think about business, they think about LinkedIn. It is the number one most widely used business social media platform. So naturally that's where I was gonna go because I'm not interested in getting followers and being popular online. I'm just here to build those business relationships and grow my business. And I did it. I mean, I would market to as many people as I could. My goal was 20 people per day, new people that I would reach out to. As a young person in my career as a young mom of little kids, I knew my time was limited, so that's where I focused. I said I'm gonna market to 20 people per day. And I kept like a little, just a paper, like a written, handwritten notebook where I would write down names and dates, and then I would, you know, make a note back if someone contacted me back. But it was just a visual tool to show me that I had actually accomplished something that day. And now I have a resource in my LinkedIn marketing course, the VO Edge, that's called Five Daily Reach Outs. Because 20 is a lot, and I realize that's a lot. So, but five, anybody can do five. And that's why over the years I've learned from people like you, people like Natasha Marcheska, people that know how to break a big task into little tasks. If you do that, you can accomplish so much more because you're not gonna get discouraged. And to have a plan. I guarantee that you don't wake up wondering, I wonder what I'm gonna do today. You know what you're doing because you are super organized. Anne: Well, I think you have to be, right? And especially for us to be successful and to continue to grow in our businesses. I mean we have to be, because we've got a lot of things that we're doing. I mean, you're a mom of four, you're a voice talent, you're running a online -- is it an online course and is it live as well? Tracy: No, it's just online. Anne: That's a lot -- okay. Tracy: It's online only. And I did that to save myself time. I really put a lot of thought into planning out the different modules and lessons and I tightly edited them so there's no wasted time because I don't like my time to be wasted. And I didn't wanna do that to anybody else. So it's about two hours of content overall. And I also do like a little introductory pump up video to kind of get people excited and motivated to do that module and that lesson. But yeah, it's totally, anybody can do it in their own time. It's on demand, and you can go revisit it anytime. It's all videos and there's some downloads too. Anne: And I imagine 'cause creating curriculum, of course being an educator, right, for the longest time, I mean, it takes time to create good content. So for you to keep that up to date and keep that as a successful online course, congratulations. First of all, I know how much time that takes and how much effort it takes to get really good content and a really good course online that people can really get value out of. Now do you do any special coaching? I'm sure people are coming up to you and go, please, can you just help me with my profile, or do you do any type of individual coaching as well? Tracy: Yeah. I'll do one-on-one and so I'll do like a private consulting session for an hour, and we'll go over, typically we'll start with the profile. And I always ask, Hey, please send me any questions in advance, the things you really wanna know because I'm not gonna waste your time and we're gonna go quickly during this hour. Anne: Good. Tracy: But I don't do a ton of that because the course is so comprehensive that most people get their questions answered through that. Anne: Awesome. Tracy: And I really do direct them towards the course because then it doesn't take up my time. Anne: Right. Tracy: But I love working with people as you know, it's so much more fun to get to know people individually during that hour. So I mean, I made a friend by the end of the hour and I love that. Anne: Yeah. It is. The only thing is, is that as you keep trying to -- and for me, I'm, I'm very business minded, right? And for me, if I'm not growing then I'm stagnating and that's not necessarily where I wanna be. And so personally in my business, I'm always looking to grow in one way or another. And so every week, every month, every year, I'm looking at how can I grow my business? And so your personal time is probably the most precious time that you have. And so for example, I can't coach any more people. I cannot do any more one-on-ones because I'm one person, and I simply don't have the hours in the day to do everything that I wanna do. So it is important to be efficient. So let's talk a little bit more about the LinkedIn. You're using the free version of LinkedIn, right? Tracy: Right. I've never done the premium. Anne: Okay. You've never even tried it? Tracy: No. Anne: Okay. Tracy: It's just so robust, I don't need it. Anne: Okay. Tracy: You do get limited on the number of connections, but what I've taught people is that you can put your searches in and then bookmark it. And that way you can just keep going back to that page, and it doesn't keep ding you for additional searches. Anne: Oh, got it. Tracy: So that's a big secret that a lot of people. Anne: We can go home now. That's it. That's a . That's it. That's the nugget. Tracy: But I mean, what you mentioned earlier about optimizing the SEO, so let's talk about that. Anne: Yes. Tracy: That is one of the key things. And you're great at that on your website. I know that. Anne: Oh, thank you. Tracy: Well, you come from a tech -- Anne: It's lot of work. Yeah. Tracy: -- background. Yes. Yes. And it's additional content. Anne: But it's worthy. Tracy: Yes. Anne: It's definitely worth it to spend the time on the content because it brings people to your site. And I imagine people on LinkedIn searching for voiceover talent, like you want them to reach your profile. Tracy: Right. Anne: So yeah, let's talk about what do you do to enhance your SEO for that? Tracy: Well, so there are three steps in what I teach with LinkedIn. And the first step is optimizing your profile. So that's where you must start. Do not start reaching out to people if you haven't completely shined up your profile and made it the best it can be. So obviously that would be the base step in step one. So step one involves just putting yourself forward authentically. One of the things that I really harp on is how there's so much inauthentic, spammy marketing, and you can stand out by being authentic. I consider my life messy. People know that I have four kids and I don't hide it. I put all over my Instagram, I just posted one recently about going Christmas shopping with the kids, and it was just, I did not wanna go. It starts off with me making a face, you know, like I don't wanna do this. And I used like the circus theme because sometimes that's how I feel like I live in a circus. So I allow people to get a glimpse into my messiness. And I feel like that's actually been a boost to my brand, because I'm relatable and we all have messes. So why pretend to be perfect? So when you create your profile, though, you are your most businessy self on LinkedIn. So I'm not nearly as messy there. I will be all kinds of messy on Instagram and Facebook. But here on LinkedIn we're a little bit more put together. We wanna make sure that people know we can handle the work. We're not gonna flake, we're dependable. So key words that emphasize those kinds of business ethics are key. And also speaking from a one-on-one perspective, don't make it sound like, Tracy Lindley is a full-time voice actor, that kind of thing. You wanna say I am. So you're speaking to the first person. I tell people to look at it as if you were at a networking event and you're meeting someone for the first time and they say, what do you do? So you've got a big picture back here where you're giving an overall view of who you are, 'cause they asked, and if they're visiting your profile, that's kind of like asking what do you do? Let me get to know you a bit. And then when you get down to the experience section about being a voice talent, then that's when you get into more of the nitty gritty like clients, agents, those kinds of things. Anne: Do you put examples and demos on there as well in your profile? Tracy: Oh yeah. That's key. Anne: Media? Tracy: I mean, why would you wanna hire somebody that doesn't have any examples at all of their work? Anne: Right. Tracy: And don't make 'em go looking on your website. That wastes their time. Everything that we do needs to be client-centered, and it wastes the client's time to take them to your website or some other source. You should put it right there on LinkedIn. Put all your best examples. And a lot of times people are starting out brand new. Like if you've coached someone and they've just created a demo, and they have no body of work, they can take that demo that you've created with them and turn it into a video and display that on LinkedIn. Anne: Videos are effective. Tracy: Yes. And you can't really do an MP3 on LinkedIn. You have to do some sort of video. So sometimes people do SoundCloud, but I don't find that very effective 'cause it's just a static picture. And I think even a very simple video is fine. Some people do make it look like all these clips of commercials, which is really cool, but it's also costly. And if people are bootstrapping their business at the beginning, it's really easy to create a very simple video with your picture and just a few things, contact information on the back. Contact information is huge because that's our call to action is contact me. Anne: What about your feed on LinkedIn? Are you posting to the feed on LinkedIn? Are you creating content? Because I know a big thing, gosh, a couple years ago when I was looking back into it was creating content and posts like short blog posts in LinkedIn. Is that still, is that effective? Is that, what are your thoughts on that? Tracy: You know, video's really taken over. Blogs are still fantastic and also they can link back to your website, which boosts your SEO, but really video is king right now, and those are the things that are gonna get the most engagement. But you can't just get on camera and talk about nothing. You have to give people something of value. And you have to to keep it short. So when I post videos, I try to keep 'em less than two minutes, 90 seconds if I can. You know, it just depends. I'll do it in one, two, no more than three takes. And if I can't get it in three takes, just forget it. I'll come back later. Because mm-hmm. I want it fresh, I want it off the cuff. Anne: Yeah. I agree. Tracy: I want it to be as authentic as possible. Anne: Yeah, I agree. And so the big question is, and I know most of, a lot of students will, well what do I post? Or what do I talk about? Like what do you talk about? Do you talk about voiceover? I don't think the intent is to do a hard sell on hire me, I do voiceover. What are your thoughts on creative videos that would bring value? Tracy: Well, I'd say touch on things that make us human, touch on things that make us a business person. So one of the best videos I ever did was talking about how I am extra, and at my kids's school I was doing the announcing for the volleyball game, and I was told after that, hey, you know, you don't need to commentate so much about the volleyball game, you know, just do the sponsors and say something at the end of the match. Okay. But I didn't, I just would say something after like every point. I think it did get a little annoying. I did learn from that, but my point was I just couldn't sit there with this microphone and not say things. So I just realized I am extra and I made a little video out of that and about rejoicing in being extra. And so -- Anne: I love that. Tracy: Yes. So many people relate to that. And that kind of thing that brings us together as humans. it makes us who we are. And I was the kind of girl that went door to door selling cookies in the neighborhood and asking if I could rake your leaves and things. I've always been a go-getter and I know you are too, Anne. And when you're a go-getter in this industry, you can't just sit back and do the minimum. Anne: Yeah. Agreed. Tracy: That was my video. Anne: Agreed. Well, I love that. So now outside of LinkedIn, right, and of course BOSSes out there, I totally encourage all of you just go take the course, just do it. LinkedIn is just one of the best resources for getting work that I can think of. I guess my last question before I ask you, the big question, which is I will get to that, is let's talk about templates or how do you reach out to somebody in a cold contact? I feel like cold contacting people is difficult. That I know. And so how do you wrangle that in reaching out and not being considered spammy? Is there a tip or two or three that you have in reaching out to people? Tracy: Sure. My biggest tip is to look for anything that you can use to find common ground. So when people are just starting out using LinkedIn, one of the best ways to reach out is by geographic area. So you could reach out to folks in LA, I can reach out to folks in Kansas City, and that way we have that in common already and we know that. And that's an easy thing to put into the search terms when we're using the search features of LinkedIn is geographical area. So that's one thing. But another thing, I encourage people to look through their profile and find something that they can relate to. Maybe they mention a cat or a dog or kids, or I like to watch the Chiefs, whatever. Find something. If they've written any kind of personal about section, usually you can find something interesting there to comment about. But as far as templates, I am pro templates within reason, I do think that it's good -- if you're gonna kind of write similar things each time, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. So I do encourage people to write templates, but personalize like the first sentence and always say that person's correctly spelled name. Anne: Oh yeah. . Absolutely. Tracy: Like I bet people spell your name A-N-N. And you're like, uh... Anne: Yes. All the time. All the time. They do. Tracy: And I always get, yes, T-R-A-C-E-Y is how people end up spelling my name. I'm like, there's no E. . We don't like that. Anne: There's no E. Absolutely. Well, what wonderful advice. Now in addition to LinkedIn, what would be your best business tip for people just getting into the industry on how to establish their business or get work and be successful? Tracy: I would say the best thing is to start local. Start with who you know. I think I'm hearing from your story that people who were your first clients were people you actually knew in your life, and they were in mind too. So when you are truly ready to hang out your open for business sign, which means you've got a great website, you've got a great professionally produced demo, you have enough training to where if someone says, I need this, you can give it to them-- your sound quality has to be top notch, you have to have a low sound floor, no buzzing, no echo, all that stuff, and you know how to use your equipment, including source connect. If you say that you have source connect -- okay. If you have all that stuff, then you are ready to start hanging out your sign and telling people on Facebook and Instagram and whatever that you're doing voiceover. And chances are there's someone in your life who needs voiceover, especially if you have a decent personal social network. And that's kind of how it happened for me was I was personally connected to someone that owned a marketing firm, and he was one of my first clients. My alma mater hired me to do a short documentary. There were some little IVR things that I did, and it just kind of snowballs. Anne: Absolutely. Tracy: Yeah. And then I felt confident. I'm like, okay, I have a little bit of work here that I can showcase. It may not be any brand names that are super sexy, but it's work, and it sounds good and it looks good, so let's put it out there. So that's what I started doing. It builds on each other. Anne: It's amazing how important local can be in establishing relationships. Also, relationships that keep coming back as you nurture it. I have so many repeat clients that I've had for years because like you say, communication is key, and nurturing those relationships are key. And a lot of them started off locally. And I think that that is something people don't think of. And that also locally helps when you're advertising like where you are voicing from, like voicing from Southern California or Orange County, California or Los Angeles area. Even just putting those words on your website help for people to find you because most of the times when people are searching using Google, it's automatically got localization turned on. And so if they're searching for voice talent, it's gonna search locally first. And so you wanna be up at the top of that search. So, great advice, Tracy. I wanna thank you so very much for joining me today. Yay. My bucket list checked off. Tracy: Oh, me too. This is so fun. And I'll see you at VO Atlanta in March. Anne: I know, I'm very excited. How can people get in touch with you and where can they go to get that course again? Tracy: Okay, so my website, if people wanna check out me or my work or whatever, that's tracylindley.com. And the course is @thelinkedinedge.com. Or if you wanna just look at the one for voice actors, it's thevoedge.com and it'll take you right there. Anne: Perfect. Tracy: And I'm happy to answer questions. Contact me on Instagram. My handle is @TracyLindleyVO, pretty much everywhere. Anne: Awesome. Tracy, thank you so much again for joining me. I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also, I want you to understand about your chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to commit and find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. Tracy, thank you again, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Tracy: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this episode, Anne and Gillian stress the importance of having a high-quality home studio for voice actors. The hosts discuss the technical aspects of setting up a studio, such as having a good computer, fast internet, and a reliable microphone. They also emphasize the need for soundproofing, with Anne sharing her DIY approach to creating acoustic panels for her studio. Additionally, the hosts talk about the importance of isolation and how it can be achieved through building panels or using reflection filters. Overall, the episode provides valuable insights for anyone looking to set up a professional-grade voiceover studio. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show audio engineer, musician and creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode in our BOSS audio series. Hey Gillian. Gillian: Hello Anne. How's it going today? Anne: I'm doing good. Gillian, I love talking all things audio with you, especially because for a voice actor, our home studios are so very important. And I work mostly out of my home studio, and I know that you kind of do both. You work out of professional studios and your home studio. So I thought we should discuss the important aspects of what voice actors really need and how they can fine-tune their home studio to sound their best, 'cause that's an important component of today's voice actor. We need to have great sound. Gillian: Yeah, I definitely agree. And I'm home. This is like my working station, but when I'm really working I'm always just bopping around to different studios. So I understand why your booth is so important. It's like your second home or -- Anne: Yeah. (laughs). Gillian: You know, you spend all your time in there. Anne: We spend — oh yeah, we spend a lot of time in our booth. So first of all we have to be confident that it sounds amazing, that we can deliver amazing sound to our clients. And then also it's gotta be someplace where it's comforting for us because we do spend an awful lot of time in here. Gillian: I definitely agree with my personal setup that I have here. I have like all my little mementos that I wanna see, and I have my mic of course for just meetings and talking. But really professional studios are so different than a home studio, because for me I'm always going different places. There's a ton of different gear, a ton of different stuff that we swap in and out for different uses, different clients, but really you guys are just focusing on your voice. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: A lot of the work that I do is just to get creative sounds, different sounds, but with voice acting you want it to be consistent and you wanna show up in the booth to do, I guess, revisions for something that you did six months ago and you need to be the same Anne that you were, which is so crazy to me. Anne: Yeah. And even longer than that, actually I had a client just the other day that I had to provide pickups on something that I had done close to five years ago. And interestingly enough, I've actually transitioned from one studio to the next. So having I think the good bass sound, right, that you can get out of your studio area and also your mics make a big difference too in terms of the sound. And so I had to make sure that I could match it because I literally moved from my studio in Irvine, which was a different setup, a studio that my father built, to a custom studio that Tim Tippetts built here right before the pandemic. Oh, and in between I had a temporary studio, I forgot to mention that set up at an apartment that we were staying at until our new house was built and ready. So that was a different studio. So all through those three different studios, thankfully I had the same mic, so I at least knew that I could get the same sound as long as I had a decent environment to record that in. And then also I will give props to myself because I had the audio files from five years ago. So I'm a big proponent of backing up your stuff and keeping an archive of it so you can listen and see what your performance was like, see what you sounded like and then be able to match it. Gillian: Yeah, that's crazy. And so incredible that you have those files and I think that's one of the most important things for me personally too, just to keep everything backed up and know what's going on. But enlighten me, because I really don't know, like did you spend a lot of time working in studios before the pandemic? Like what was your experience like? Anne: Oh, good question. So I started, gosh, I started back in the early 2000s doing voiceover, and that was when a home studio was like just a thought. It was not a requirement, it was just a thought. And you used to go to local studios to record things, and you would get your jobs based upon auditioning with either studios, or you could audition and then you would select a studio and you would rent space there, or you might be on a roster for a studio. So it's very interesting because as technology evolved and online became a thing and online casting became a thing, then all of a sudden home studios became a thing. Actually back in the day with Don LaFontaine, right, having to travel LA traffic all the time, he became, I think one of the first proponents of doing things remotely in a studio using ISDN technology. So that I think really spurred everybody else on to start to get home studios because there's so many variables when you record in a studio. But the good thing about recording in a studio is that you go there and everything is beautiful, everything is sound -- everything is, well maybe not sound proof, but everything is optimized for recording so you didn't have to worry about it. And so for me, all of a sudden having to create a home studio or a space for me to record and sound good -- I'm not an audio engineer by trade, I didn't really study it in school. So for me that was a big hurdle in the beginning of my voiceover career. And I know it still is for voice talent that are coming up through the ranks, because that's not necessarily what we studied. We didn't study audio engineering. And of course it's a whole field. So (laughs), it's not an easy field. And to set up a space in your home so that it can sound as good as a professional studio is really tough. So in the beginning when I went to studios to record and do my jobs, it was great, except for there was always the stress. Can I book the time in the studio? And if I had the time booked for me in the studio, that was great. All I had to do was make sure I got there on time. And then that became a stressful thing for me because of possible traffic. And back in the day, I didn't live in the LA area, but I did live in the New York area. And so traffic anywhere, just the stress of getting to the studio on time, 'cause that's the last thing. You know, that was the one piece of advice that everybody gave to starting voice talent was that don't be late, don't be late to your studio time. You wanna make sure that you show up and you're professional. But you certainly didn't have to stress about anything other than just performing in front of the mic. And I think that was a big plus for going into studios. And people still go into studios today. And I know I love it when, even if I'm remotely connecting to a studio, I have the engineer taking care of all the sounds and levels and the files, and there's just so much to think about when you are at your home studio. And I'm rambling on here, but it's also a thing that when we are in our home studios, we have to think about things like, okay, well, it's our time to open those files, save the files, upload the files, send the files to our client, edit those files. And so that's something that when you don't go to a studio is now the responsibility of the voice actor. Gillian: Well, that's crazy (laughs). I mean obviously a lot of these things I know to some extent and it seems like there's so many pros and cons for both. I mean, just hearing you talk about it, obviously we know showing up to record and not having to record yourself, it takes a burden off of it. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: Because I record myself. I mean, I'm not a voice actor by any means, not at all. But I've been working on my music for my whole life, and I think when I was like 12 or 13 I got a little ProTools CD and like a tiny interface and that was what started it and the convenience of being at home. But really it is such a treat to go into a studio. Anne: It's a luxury. I think I consider it a luxury. Gillian: But also hearing you talk about it, I feel performance-wise, it's gotta be easier to deliver when you're not stressed about getting there on time, you're not stressed about, you know, needing to be in front of other people. I know for myself, I love recording myself, especially when I'm doing singing or vocals because it's super vulnerable and sometimes I don't wanna have to do that in front of somebody else, especially someone I don't know, a stranger. Like, it's a little bit more difficult. But it is interesting because I work at a lot of music studios, so we don't do a ton of voiceover, but whenever we do, we always apologize to the voice talent, 'cause we have this entire gigantic beautiful studio, and we're like, okay, we're gonna give you one mic, we're gonna stick you in the corner 'cause it has the best isolation and close the door, and that's where you're gonna get to go. 'Cause it really is true. You need a good mic, you need a good setup. But voice actors don't need that whole setup. And so I guess the question or conversation is gonna be about how do you take the pros of a pro studio and incorporate them into your home studio setup and make it so that you don't wish you were at the studio. You have everything you need right there. Anne: Yeah, yeah. It's a journey, for sure, for a voice actor, because again, I don't have the audio engineering education that you do. I know how to perform behind the mic. And so I just remember for me setting up my initial home studios --and I didn't have an ear either for it. I think when you first begin, you just don't have an ear for what good sound sounds like, and I would record and I didn't think anything of it and sent my file off to someone and they're like, mm, yeah, no Anne, that's not gonna do, that's not acceptable. And I was mortified and then it was like, wow. So what do I have to do to make my studio produce sound that is viable for my client? Gillian: Yes, definitely an interesting conversation and thought just because it's true, like voice actors, they do have to fill the role of the audio engineer. I do believe that. But I also don't think that all voice actors need to be audio engineers. Anne: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Gillian: You need to know how to record yourself. You need to know how to see if you're clipping, if you're too quiet to hear, a little bit of distortion or hear if your voice just isn't sounding right. And obviously, you know, with auditions you have to edit, you have to make it sound comparable to the other auditions and maybe a final product. But really I feel like if you tell someone who's not an audio engineer, or if you told me five years ago before I was really an audio engineer, you have to do this, it's so overwhelming. So I feel like talking about what people actually need to know, versus what you hire a professional for, or what you just kind of say, okay, this is a setting within my DAW that does not pertain to me. I don't need to be using this to get proper file delivery -- I feel like that's really important for people to just, I think make peace with. Because if you spent all your time trying to learn how to be an audio engineer, you would have no time to be a voice talent or to be doing what you actually wanna be doing. Anne: So true, so true. So then I think maybe starting from square one, if BOSSes out there are just getting started, and I know I work with people who are just getting started in the industry, and they'll connect to me for their sessions in an office with a headset, and there will be no studio whatsoever, and they will be okay, I'm building my studio. So for me, I will always say to them, well, I certainly have a ton of people that I can recommend to you that can help you build that studio. But there are certain principles that I know, like I can now hear if they have good sound or not. And I think the first thing to consider is, in your home, like where is a quiet area? And I know that's such a lofty question to ask, but in reality what I've learned is that if you can go somewhere inside your home that's maybe on an inside wall, maybe something that's not necessarily externally connected or near windows or near doorways or near sounds that can turn on — I mean I thought I was really great in the beginning going into my office closet, but unfortunately I found that it was very close to where I would hear water when the toilet flushed upstairs. So it was like one of those things I kept hearing noises. And so I think the first thing is to find that spot in your home that is quiet and also yet convenient to a place where you can put a microphone and also your computer, 'cause you do need your interface, your computer and your microphone. So where can you put that and set that down so that you can record in a space and also have the functionality of being able to record into your computer, and then obviously hit the start record, stop, record, and all that stuff. And also wear a pair of headphones in the beginning so that you can kind of find out what your sound is like. All those things that people don't think about, they're like, well, I'm gonna put my studio here in my closet, but then all of a sudden their desk is like at the other side of the room, and they don't have a long enough cable. It could be that simple, right? (laughs) They don't have a long enough cable for their headphones, and then they're like, well what do I do? Or they don't have a long enough cable for their interface is sitting on desk completely across the room, and then well do they bring the interface into the room? So it becomes all these different questions. But I think understanding that your spot in your home I think needs to be in a quiet area first. Maybe not near a window or not near anything that's within a wall that could be making noise like a heater or air conditioning or a generator, that kind of thing. What are your thoughts on that, Gillian? Gillian: It's so funny 'cause the like doing vocals in a closet or whatever, it's a cliche because it works. Having the padding of the clothing and typically that ends up being a quiet spot in your house, but it's not sustainable to work in your closet forever. And all those things that you mentioned are totally important. You have to have a computer, all of those things. And don't take me for an example if anyone's watching the video; I'm in my office. I don't do recording in here, but I'm like by a window by a ton of noise. It's terrible. But I think finding the right spot to get set up in is totally important. But the most important thing I think, and you can let me know what you think, but for the most part for doing voiceover work, obviously you need a microphone, but your computer, your internet connection, those are like hugely important things because how fast your computer is, how good it is at processing audio speeds, how well it connects to your interface — like all of those super technical things within — I know I have like a brand new MacBook — those are gonna really matter for how your audio sounds when you deliver it to clients. And you can have the nicest setup in the world, but if you don't have internet, or I know a lot of people also do like ethernet connections, you're not gonna make it to the job. Obviously if you're just auditioning and sending it later, that's a different scenario. But I mean, how important is it to you to obviously be able to connect to clients? That's like the number one. Anne: Well, I think that's probably one of the most overlooked aspects of being a successful voice actor is your internet. And especially now with needing to have high capacity audio recording features like Source Connect or ipDTL or whatever connection you might be using to get to a studio — that's if you're connecting to a studio -- you need to have a reliable internet connection. And I remember I very much was adamant when I came to my new place here, because it was being built, I specified that there were three specific ethernet jacks placed on the wall, on each wall. So literally I made sure that I had ethernet hardwired, connected before I moved in because I knew it was gonna be easiest to do it then. Because the people who move into homes, and they don't have ethernet connections, then they usually have to hire an electrician or somebody that can find out that they can run the wire through the wall to get to their modem or their router, or they have to move the router into their office and then other things become a problem. So ethernet and your hardwire connections are so important. And I don't see the technologies advancing anytime soon. Like wireless technology is great and convenient, but it's still not as great as a straight wired connection. I mean you cannot beat an ethernet connection or a fiber connection to your router that gets your data there fast. Gillian: I think it's just sturdiness. It's true, wifi goes out or it's finicky sometimes. So those are are really important things. And obviously having the foresight to know that you need to have ethernet and all those things installed is really important. But for the people that didn't think about this, are already living somewhere, don't know what to do, find a spot where you feel comfortable, find a spot that's kind of away from extraneous noise. And I personally don't think, if you're just starting out in voiceover, you need to splurge on a booth or anything right away. I think there's a ton of DIY options that we can talk about, but I think that's also a lot of pressure, or at least from what I'm hearing. I'm also like half in the voiceover world, half out of it. So there's a lot of questions that I'm probably gonna have for you about like why people say certain things. And I know kind of random but kind of on the conversation is a lot of audio people that I know are very adamant about not updating your computer or having really, really old hardware. I understand the processes -- Anne: To support the equipment, right? Gillian: -- behind it. Yeah. But I personally don't live that way. I update my computer. I have new stuff and there are times, like when I, I updated to a newer version of ProTools or a new version of Mac, like the Mac OS that was not supportive of ProTools, and I had a couple weeks where it was having a little bit of bugs, which is frustrating. But definitely for security of myself and all of the other things going on in my life, I don't think that you need to be using a 2010 computer. Anne: Well, I agree. Normally I would agree with you 'cause I worked in technology for like 20 years. I would always say -- Gillian: No, no, tell me. Anne: Update. Update. Gillian: I'm not saying that right. This is just the way that I work. (laughs) Anne: Update, and I love being updated to the latest and the greatest 'cause I figure it's getting rid of a lot of bugs. However, sometimes when Apple doesn't update, because I work with Apples, it's not conducive to working with my hardware for my studio. So my Apollo, which is my interface, and I have backup interfaces, but right now the latest release of Mac OS is not compatible with it. And I can't afford to struggle for two weeks. I need to have something that allows me to connect and record. And so I will wait on the update until I find out -- I usually check all the -- there's a lot of great groups out there on the internet that talk about should you update your hardware for this new release? Is it compatible with the latest release for the Apollo? And I think it's wise to keep your eyes on that. I don't think you should be 10 releases behind for sure. But (laughs), I do think that before you upgrade, to just take a look and ask around to see if things are compatible. That's important, especially if you're required to record every day in your studio, and you don't wanna have to go to your backup recording. And that's the other thing too is that I'm very much into having a backup recording setup, because I've had things happen to me enough times. But people just starting off getting into voice acting, they probably don't even have their first setup (laughs) set up, let alone a backup set of equipment. Gillian: So let me just talk to you on that for a second. I personally don't have any Apollo, Apollo or UAD stuff for that reason because I'm so nervous to be stuck without it. And I totally agree with you, because when I updated my computer without realizing that ProTools -- I mean I'm fortunate enough that I have five or six other places that I can go use ProTools. It wasn't like -- and it was working. It just, there were certain plug-ins that weren't working. But that's not the end of the world. Anne: Right. Gillian: But the lesson that I learned from that was, oh my gosh, never update without checking because it's true all the programs that you're using -- and I think within Apple they will say what is compatible and what's not compatible with these new releases, and that is totally smart person way to do it. And you get burned to realize that you can't do it, which is what happened to me and I'm sure has happened to you. Anne: You only have to get burned once. Right? Gillian: You get burned once and then you're like, this sucks. I'm so dumb, I have my features and now I can't do my job. Anne: Yeah. Gillian: Which is sucky. Anne: Exactly. Gillian: So learn from our mistakes, don't make your own. But there are some people, and I've met them, people that I work with too -- I mean one of these studios, we had a 10 years old ProTools rig, and when you get into the large professional studios, they are upwards of like $10-, $20-, $30,000 for new ProTools rig like expensive. Anne: Oh yeah. And I'm sure that's why they don't upgrade to the latest and greatest all the time. Gillian: Well, the old system was super sturdy, was working really well. And then we upgraded and there were some glitches and bugs and things that come with updating. I don't know why. I just heard people that I work with grumbling like, ah, you know, the old system was so great, now we have the new system and it keeps crashing. And so the, there is this conversation about not upgrading for like 10 years. I don't know if you've heard that within audio engineers. Anne: That's a long time. Yeah. Gillian: So if anyone is giving you that advice, I'm just gonna give you the counter-advice so that you can take both of them and make an educated choice about what you wanna be doing. You don't need to be doing what I'm doing and have the newest stuff. If you have an Apollo, you definitely can't always have the most updated, because it's a little bit behind and everything that's not within Apple will always be a little bit behind. But just make your own choices, people. (laughs) Listen to us, gather the info and make a good choice. Anne: Yeah. Make an educated choice. And I, and I agree like there's always that fine line of when do you update your technology, like when does that happen? And I'm very used to just from my previous jobs -- I mean I was always living on the edge. I was always trying the new stuff. And so I'm very bold when it comes to trying new stuff. But I'm also smart enough, I've been burned enough times to know that I need backups of everything and then backups of the backups. And so I'm actually really thankful for that experience. And BOSSes out there, I say backups of backups, backups of your files, backups of your equipment, backups of your internet connection, because the one time will come when you really need it, and you won't have that backup. And that only has to happen once. I'm so old, it's happened to me multiple times. So I feel good that I've learned from it. And so while I feel as though I'm really close to the edge on everything I possibly can be, I'm also smart about when to get on that edge with equipment and stuff that I need on a day-to-day basis. So yeah, absolutely. So when you're looking for that space in your home, that quiet space, that space that's comfortable for you and also hopefully quiet for you, right, for that home studio, then you start preparing it, right, acoustically. So Gillian, what can people do to prepare their home studios acoustically? What sorts of things can they do to have sound absorption? Like if they're in a closet, obviously they can have their clothing which is a great absorber of sound. What other things can they use? Gillian: There are a ton of things that you can use. I know there's a few DIY boots in the sense that they're not thousands and thousands of dollars. They're like some PVC pipe and some packing blankets that will kind of isolate you, which is great. Anne: Sure. Gillian: I think the issue with the way that homes are built versus how sound works is you get the windows, you get all the boxy walls, and you have all these parallel surfaces, and you talk, and all the sound just bounces from side to side to side. So the whole point of having treatment on the walls and treatment around you is to stop all of that reverberation -- Anne: Reflection. Gillian: Yeah. And the reflections. And just capture it. And really a lot of studios will be built with like diagonal walls and all of these things to just go against it. I have never built a studio, so I can't say that I've done it, but I've been in a lot of places where I'm like, that wall's really weird. Why is it like that? Anne: Yeah. Gillian: And of course it's not for aesthetic, it's for sound. So just making, making sure that you are blocking yourself from any windows are really reflective, just any sort of padding on the walls would be really -- I mean I see yours, all of your stuff in the background. For anyone who's watching, Anne has all those nice little -- Anne: Panels. Gillian: Yeah. The sound panels that just absorb everything. And there's also these things that we use in studios that I haven't seen any voice actors use, so I'm gonna have to ask you about it. They're like reflection filters. Have you ever heard of them? Anne: Does that go on a mic? Gillian: It goes on a mic stand. Anne: Yes, I have. I have. Gillian: Have you seen I them? Anne: Yeah, I have seen them and I have not had good success with them, and I actually hate them. I hate them with a passion. Gillian: Okay, tell me about it because I'm just curious. Anne: I think that they can work nicely in a studio that already has some acoustic absorption built into it. And then if it's in a large area, if it's in a large space and you need a little bit more, I think that they can work nicely. However, what most voice actors try to do is use it for their studio and then it just becomes the only thing that is used, and it becomes very close to the mic. And first of all, they're really bulky on the stands. I had something called a reflection filter and I paid a good amount of money for it. And like 300 some odd dollars and that was 10 years ago. Gillian: Wow. Anne: And it was very bulky. It weighted my microphone stand in a way that kept falling over. And then also it did not create the kind of sound absorption that I liked because it wasn't enough. It just wasn't enough. And then it became inhibitive in a way because I felt like I had something like right here in front of my face. It was very close, and I feel like it just didn't do a good enough job 'cause I think your absorption material needs to be thick. Gillian: Yeah. Anne: And so when they make the reflection filters, it's either thick or even if it's not thick, then it's not enough absorption, I don't believe. One thing that I learned through the years of going through, I'm gonna say, three or four different versions of a home studio is -- and by the way, the window, believe it or not, my studio right now is built in an office. It's a room within a room and right in in front of me. Gillian: Great. Anne: A room in a room is great. Gillian: Yeah. Anne: Right in front of me is a wall that had a side window on it. And we actually, before we built the studio, we frosted the window so it wouldn't look silly because we had a studio in front of it, and people would just look at a piece of plywood or (laughs), you know, so it wasn't attractive. So we frosted the window and then we actually put Rockwool insulation and then a drywall on the out. So we created a whole encasement for the window. Gillian: Wow. Anne: So that that blocked any potential sound that could potentially get in. And then we put the studio right up against it. And so that's how we blocked our window. So we made sure there was absolutely no way that sound could get in from the outside on these walls. So it's a room within a room. And so my acoustic panels are four inches thick. And they have Rockwool insulation and that's something you can get at Home Depot. It's awesome. It's really cost effective. It's not expensive. And these were all DIY panels that were made. And I'm gonna give a big shout out to Tim Tippetts. He's got a great YouTube video on how to make them. They're all four inches thick and they sit just slightly off the wall. Gillian: Yeah. Anne: So that way you have a little bit of spacing in between the panels and the wall for the sound to kind of just -- if it bounces on that wall, it'll come back in through the panel, which is four inches thick. So that you get I think the highest amount of sound absorption that you can using the panels. And if they aren't using the panels and they're using blankets, again, those blankets are giving you a certain level of absorption. Not quite as much I think as the four inch thick panels with Rockwool in there, but again, it's your choice. And I hang them everywhere. I have a ton of them in here. I also have clouds that are up above me with the same kind of thing. And then outside of my studio, because I want the outside of my studio to be quiet as well, I also have panels hung out there as well. Gillian: See, that is just like an impressive setup, and thank you, Tim Tippetts. I know he was the previous BOSS audio guest, and that's awesome that he did all of those things for your studio. And that's just what I would say the difference between a Pro VO setup and a beginner VO setup. You gotta start somewhere, and I think that isolation is really important. And obviously, any advice we give, and this will be what I keep saying on the series, is just take what we say and apply it to your situation. Because unless we're working one-on-one, like either Anne or I working with you, there's no way to know exactly what your situation is. But when you're starting out, I think that — I mean even if a few people built those things that Tim has a video on it and built those panels and just had them in your home office, behind you, around you, it'll help. You don't need to start with a room within a room, even though that's an amazing setup and it sounds great. And all studios are built with rooms within rooms and floating floors so that there's no sound coming from the outside world. But yeah, I think we got a really good foundation of home studio verse pro studio, how to get your space set up. And I think on the next episode, we should really dive in for the BOSSes on like what you need for a beginner home studio setup. What do you think? Anne: Absolutely. So guys, when you are thinking about getting into voice acting, you must also think about where in your home is a good place for that studio, because you can have an amazing voice, but if you can't deliver the audio, a good quality audio to your client, you're not gonna be a very successful voice actor. So absolutely very important. But one thing I will say to give you all hope, in case you're overwhelmed at this point, is that once you get a home studio setup, like I have a home studio setup, you're pretty much good to go. I mean, your stress is over. You don't have to worry about it much after that, outside of your equipment failing, but your space, if your space is set up, it's set up, right? Gillian: The investment is forever. Anne: Right? Yeah. Foregoing any kind of natural disaster, right, or emergency, it stands and it will absorb your sound appropriately, and you won't have to worry about it again. So that's what I love (laughs). Gillian: Yeah. And I love, Anne, all you shared with me because obviously I work in all these big studios, but I can't say that I've been given a tour of anyone's booth yet (laughs). So you know, hearing how you set it up and all of those things, I think it'd be great for BOSSes to know, and you taught me a little bit today too. Anne: Awesome. Well, Gillian, thank you so much. I'm looking forward to our next episode. BOSSes, simple mission, big impact, 100 voices, one hour, $10,000 four times a year. BOSSes, visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to join in. All right. Also, a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes, like Gillian and I; find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, guys. We'll see you next week. Bye. Gillian: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Long before you lay eyes on your next script, you should be thinking about how your improv skills can help you stand out. Anne & Lau share their practical advice for integrating improv into your voice over work + act out some improved scenes for the Bosses! Improv is about being in the moment and responding to what is happening around you. Rehearsed speech sounds unnatural and stilted because it doesn't reflect the way people actually speak. If a script is written the way you'd like it to be written, great! But if it isn't written that way, then it is still your responsibility to make it believable. Improv requires imagination & creativity, which are both important elements of succeeding as a voice actor. Bosses, your voices are vehicles for storytelling, emotion, and world building. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Lau: Hey Anne. Anne: Hey Lau. How are you? Lau: I'm awesome. Great to be back. Anne: Ah, it's good to have you back Lau. Lau: Okay, here's the situation. Ready? Here we go. You just bought a car, and you're picking it up for the first time. They even sprayed that new car smell. And it's shining and gorgeous. Had a little bow on top. Give me a moment of pre-life. Like what's the exclamation you make before you speak? Anne: (screams) Oh my God, I'm so excited! I can't wait to get my car today! Lau: Oh, and I would do this. I would go, ooooh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to get my car today. Anne: I think it was important. I had some good physicality back there behind my mic here. Lau: We both did. We both were like exploding. Anne: So what is that, BOSSes? What are we talking about? Mmm? Lau: Mmm, I think that's improv city right there. Improv. Anne: Improv. So, so important to everything we do. I'm gonna say so important because, it really helps us. Would you say Lau, 90%, if not more, of casting specs are calling for believable, authentic, real? And I think honestly, in order for us to be real (laughs), improv is so very important to be able to create what's happening in the scene, your reaction, your emotion. I mean, that's really what makes us stand out from all the other people auditioning. Right? Lau: Right. I mean, speakers in the larger world outside of our industry, call it impromptu speaking, being able to think off the cuff, think on your feet, being able to think on the fly. Every time you hear someone say that, we know it's a tough skill for people. We know it's not a natural ability for most people to be under these unnatural circumstances and just think on the fly. Right? But it's a great tool, right, for voiceover talent to be able to do that. Anne: And you need it for everything. Guys, I don't want you to think that this is just for, I don't know, video games or character animation. You need improv for everything you do, including medical narration. Just saying. I'm like the biggest proponent of being in the scene, because we are so used to -- I think, those of you that just got into voiceover and you don't necessarily have acting experience — we're so used to picking up a piece of paper with words and reading the words out loud, and listen to what I just said. We're used to taking a look at the piece of paper and reading the words out loud. And that's what you don't wanna do, right, as a voiceover actor. You want to be in a scene. You want to sound as if you are there and speaking authentically and naturally and believably. And so you can't just pick up a piece of paper with words that you've never seen before and just read them from left to right. You always have to put yourself in a scene. And that includes -- gosh, when I'm doing telephony script, and I'm saying thank you for calling. Like I put myself in a scene. I want people to really feel as though I'm thankful that they've called me (laughs). And improv helps me do that. Lau: Yes. And you know, a lot of times people will say to me, but Lau, I don't get it. Like, I can't improv as a voiceover talent. Everything is scripted. They're never gonna ask me to improv when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing a gig. So why do I need to know this? I say, well, wait a second. What about all your prep time? You and I were just talking about this, Anne, how important it is to think of yourselves as an actor. You're a voice actor; you're acting a role. So when you're acting, you have to have technique, tools and technique to call upon to find your character development. How do I find that? So improvisation is a tool that helps us find the authentic, true character, sound, connection, quality, tones. It helps us find that. And then once we find it, we can pull it out like just outta your toolbox. You can pull it out whenever you wanna use it. And just that exercise we just did right now, the pre-life of exclamation, just that can potentially book you a gig. Anne: Oh gosh, yes. And it's so interesting because I tell my students all the time, I'm like, okay, what's your moment before? Right? And I could be referencing a script that is the driest corporate narration script in the world. And it makes no sense because in the real world, I would never say these words. And that's what I constantly get from -- I would never say these words in the real world. But okay, we're not in the real world. Okay? We're acting. And we need to create the world in which those words would sound natural. And even if they're not written naturally, you have to create the scene. And that I think, is so important. You're not preparing the script to sound a particular way. You can read the specs, and they're like, oh, we want youthful, millennial, or maybe sound with gravitas. Stop preparing that sound. What you need to do is to prepare the character, prepare the scene, prepare what's happening that's going to make you react, right, in such a way. that might portray those characteristics that are being called out. And I have so many students that get frustrated. I'll say, what's your moment before? And they'll be like, uh, I have no clue. Like, doesn't say anything in the script. Guess what, guys? Here's where you got — your imagination comes into play, right? Lau: Yes. Anne: So important. The imagination in developing a scene, develop a scene that makes sense to you. Lau: Yes. And improv is an acting tool. It's an actor technique. And it's very challenging to do improv and be lazy. Like you can't be lazy and do improv well, because you're talking imagination. It has to kick in and connect. And oftentimes that requires energy, focus and speed in order to do that. And it's hard to do it if you're not engaged, if you're tired, if you're lazy, if you're disconnected. We oftentimes will get feedback for an actor from like casting that will say, ah, I don't like it. They feel disconnected, they don't feel connected somehow. And I always think of improv, 'cause improv is a wonderful source of connection to another person. How do we credibly and authentically connect to another person? Well, we practice it. It sounds like an oxymoron. You have to practice improv, but you do. You do. Anne: You do. Absolutely. Lau: You have to practice that skill. Right, Anne? Anne: Absolutely. And the improv doesn't just happen at the beginning of the script. It's not just something you do to give yourself some pre-roll. Okay? Because if you start a script, and I say this constantly, especially with long format narration, when you are voicing something for a long period of time, you're in a scene, you need to stay in that scene. You can't just create the scene and then just read. Right? Because all too often people will create the scene, they'll be at the start of it, and then they will do a monologue. It becomes a monologue where they forget that there might be other things happening in the scene, or there might be other people in the scene that they're acting with. And just because they're behind the mic, right, and they're not physically there -- like if they were on stage, it would be easy to see that you're with somebody, right? And you're bouncing ideas off of somebody, and it's a back and forth, like a real improv class or a workshop. But behind the mic, I think we tend to forget that there's other people in that scene with us. There's other things happening. There's movement. And if you are in a monologue, right -- I feel like monologues, unless they're extremely well written, right, are not as engaging (laughs) unless they're extremely well written. There are a lot of scripts that are not necessarily written for monologue. Right? It's like, here's my speech on this product, and you know what I mean? Like, here's my monologue about the product. Now how engaging is that? Right? If somebody's not interested in the product, you have to get them interested in the product. It has to be a story. And that story has to happen in between the sentences too. Right? You cannot stop just at the beginning. Lau: Okay, I have a great improv. I have a great improv based off what you just said. All right. Peeps, listen in. Sell the product, whatever it is that is on your script. Sell the product or service. And do it completely in your own words. Like get rid of the script. Completely re-envision it. But remember, it's not just about saying the words or the lines. You have to persuade us. Like you have to make it feel like this is something that's super important to you, that you believe in and that you want us to know about. Right? So whether it's like a blouse or a car, or a cheese, or whatever it is, I would love to hear you talk about that from your own perspective, your own point of view, and really connect to it. And a lot of times, I know you get this, Anne, in coaching too, "but I don't, I don't eat cheese," "I don't wear blouses; I'm a guy," and"I don't drive cars." Especially like that. Anne: Yeah. I don't care much about the brand. I always get people that say, yeah, no, I don't really worry about brands. I'm like, okay. But for a living, you might be selling a particular brand. And so it's important, right, that you're educated about the brand, or you have to have some interest in it. You have to have some passion in it. And by passion, I don't mean overextended passion or over the top passion, unless it's called for, right, in the script. Because a lot of times for us to be believable and authentic, we have to sound authentic. So am I constantly like, oh my God, this product is amazing! I mean, I can't be that. Right? I can't. But I need to be as authentic as I can in my improv, right, in selling that product. Lau: Well, you know, we should do, Anne? We should demo, we should do a quick demo. We should take something like a, an object, a simple object. We should have like a a 15 or 30-second conversation about that object. Anne: Okay. So I always (laughs), I always have my lipstick. Okay. I always have my product here. Lau: Okay. And the listener, maybe someone who doesn't wear a lipstick or doesn't care about lipstick, or maybe you're a man listening in, you don't ever -- okay, that's fine. But we're gonna have a conversation right now, Anne, about that. And it's all improv, right? Anne: Okay, okay. So Lau. All right, so this Chanel, okay, typically inexpensive brand, right? Typically, most people will say, oh, it's way — this, this lipstick might be way overpriced. However, for me, I love this lipstick. I love this lipstick because I only have to put it on once. And so to me, the savings of time for this is amazing. I don't have to continually reapply my lipstick. I can drink water, I can eat, and I don't have to put it on over and over again. And it just stays on and it looks good. What are your thoughts? Would you, would you pay, would you pay $34 for this? Lau: I would pay more than that, because I'm looking at it on your lips right now, and it's gorgeous. I love the gloss, I love the staying power. The color matches your skin tone perfectly. Anne: And look, I can drink. Lau: I love it. And you can drink, right? And it probably doesn't even leave residue on the cup. Anne: And it's still there. And it doesn't feel dry. Lau: It's still there. Anne: It doesn't feel dry. Lau: And I think it's economical for what it's offering you. Anne: Well, right? Lau: I would get it. Anne: My time is worth money, right? And if it, and if this is gonna save me time, right, from reapplying lipstick, or if it's gonna give me confidence because I feel like, oh God, you know how some lipstick will just kind of, you know, come off your lips, and you'll only have like a portion of on your lips, and then all of a sudden you get in the car and you look at yourself in the rearview mirror and you're like, oh my God! (laughs), my lips look horrible. Lau: They're gone. Anne: Why didn't, why didn't my best friend tell me about that? So this, I don't have to worry about that. And so the ease, my mind being eased that I don't have to worry that it's come off and it's flaked off and it looks weird, or it's, God forbid, it's on my teeth. (laughs). No, it doesn't happen. Lau: You took the words right outta my mouth. I was gonna say, your lipstick is never on your teeth. I'm impressed by that alone, and the fact that it's not all over your face like mine can be, by the end of the day, my lips are all over, you know, everywhere. So I, I just think that it's very cool for you to hold on to this and not go to other products, but really stay with it. Because it works, right? Anne: Have I convinced you? Lau: Now here's the thing. It's like, we do this in our daily life, right? We do this every day in our daily life. Anne: That was improv. That was -- by the way, BOSSes, that was improv by the way. Lau: That's all improv. Anne: And that, I think if you are absolutely thinking about how would I sell this product? Like how would I voice this product? I mean, you can just riff (laughs), you know, I really love this product because it's amazing. And the funny thing is, is that Lau, you and I had a back and forth. And I think for improv, you have to also improv, if you don't have anybody with you and you are trying to improv your audition, I think you create that second person that you're having the conversation with. It's very much a technique that I use to sound conversational and just sound natural or believable, is to actually play a part with somebody else. Because that's what you would do -- if you had a script and you were on stage, you'd be able to bounce your ideas back and forth. There would be an acknowledgement or a smile, or a nod or a conversation between two people. And so you have that movement, you have that scene that you can then improv, right? And once you improv, your voice takes on, especially like with you and I, it takes on the emotion and the point of view, which really, really brings out a script versus a read. This lipstick is wonderful, right? Versus, I mean, I'm like a robot saying that, but when I'm really like, oh, this is amazing, this is wonderful — it completely shows up in my voice. And so the fact that I've created in my mind this improv back and forth with my imaginary person that I'm telling about this lipstick is really makes all the difference. Lau: It does. It does, Anne, because that's the power of improv. It's the personalization of it. When you're gonna say to me, but I don't use lipstick, Lau. I don't wear makeup -- I'd say, that's okay. Now let's engage your imagination. What if, — the magic "what if," right? Stanislavsky's magic if -- what if you did wear makeup? What if you did wear lipstick? You know, when you were a little kid, you thought that way. And you weren't wearing lipstick or makeup (laughs).That's the irony, right? Anne: And here's the deal. Transfer this lipstick into, let's say, a Halloween costume, right? You put green on your face if you were gonna be be the Incredible Hulk or, whatever that is, right? So consider that, make that part of your imaginative world, right? And how did that make you feel? I think there's always that, like, did it make you feel confident? Did it make you feel good? Were you excited to go show that off to your friends? And how does that translate in your voice? How does that make you sound — first of all, it's gonna make you sound connected, right? Because when you're disconnected from the material, right, there's no emotion flowing in that voice. There's no emotion in that word. There's so many technical things that happen to words when you inflect an emotion onto them, or a point of view, right? So it's like, this is amazing. Like just the fact, amazing. Like I, it's not like I didn't say, this is amazing. No. I said, this is amazing. And so the rhythm changed, the intonation changed, so many technical things changed about my voice. And that is something when a casting director is listening to you, right? That is going to hit their ears and go, ah, there's an actor. And I swear to God, right? We know, for the first few words out of the mouth, we know if you're acting. Lau: Oh, yeah. Anne: Right? Lau: Oh, yeah. And start with something that is known to you, personalize it to you, like give yourself a quick scenario that you lived, that you know, if it's possible. So let's go back to the lipstick, Anne. Let's say I'm a man, right? Or someone who doesn't wear lipstick or whatever. Okay. But my favorite aunt wears lipstick, and every time she would kiss me, I would literally smell it. I would smell the lipstick, I would notice the color of it. I always think of that color when I think of my aunt. So I'm personalizing it into something I know, and something that means something to me so that I can go into other scenarios that are a bit farther away from me. Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: But if I don't start with any frame of reference at all, then I get that falseness, I get that falsehood of like, let me just sound like I love lipstick. Anne: This lipstick — yeah, exactly. And I think that voice actors, if you're just getting into the industry and you're not realizing just how important this is to really make your auditions stand out and make you connect with the copy -- it's incredibly, incredibly important that you spend time. Like I know so many people are like, oh, I did 60 auditions today, or I did a billion auditions today. Well, I want you to take five minutes before you start, before anything comes out of your mouth (laughs). And I want you to first of all, research the product. If you know what the product is. Sometimes you don't know what the product is. Sometimes the script is obscure and you're not exactly sure what it is. And that makes it even more challenging for you to improv, right? Because you're trying to figure out what is this even talking about? And I know that's just the case for a lot of audition scripts that come along and we don't know what it's even talking about. So then what we have to do is look at that script even closer. Every single word on that script has a meaning. And it may seem that you have no idea what it's talking about, and it's ridiculous. But honestly, somebody was paid probably a lot of money (laughs) to sit there and write every single word to create that brand message or to get that brand message out. And you need to really look at those words and think, what do they mean? What could it mean? And can I improv a scene, right, so that they would sound logical and realistic and have meaning and create emotion? Lau: Absolutely. And let's say you don't do this at all. Let's say you say, I can't do improv at all. I can just do the lines --do this. This is a very famous actor method. Do substitution. Like how do I get to something personal? Let me take this little thing of lipstick. I have my own on my side, lipstick on my side. And this is no longer a lipstick. What this is to me is an EpiPen. So this EpiPen can save my child's life when she has a problem and get stung by a bee. And you say, well, how does that work? It's lipstick. I said, well, I can still do an improv with Anne and talk about this as if it's an EpiPen, but it'll sound like, I can't live without this. I really can't live without this. I always have this in my cabinet ready to go. Day or night, it goes with me. And you'd think I was talking about the lipstick. But I'm really talking about the EpiPen. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Lau: Try that in terms of your improv in your daily life, when you need to connect with someone's situation, someone's stuff that they're bringing up that you don't really have any idea about. You haven't lived through it, you don't use it. You don't know about it. And you ask them questions about it. But think about what that is to you in your life. What's the substitution in your life that connects to what they're talking about? That's how powerful improv can be. It can make you friends. It can win you jobs. It can make you a lot of money. Anne: And something else that can help you -- I feel like I see this every episode, Lau — Google is your friend. Anne GanGoogle, right? Google is your friend. Like if you, if there's any indication of what you're talking about in the script, or there's words in there that you're not sure what it's even about, Google. I mean, I can't tell you how helpful it is to --if you're not familiar with the brand and the brand name is there, you can go to the website, and you'll get a great visual representation of what that is and who they might serve. And that will also help you to place your improv and place your scene in a place that's logical. I mean, it has to be logical, right? I mean, you want it to sound natural and believable. And so you should have a little bit of education about the product or the company, or maybe what's their demographic? Are they selling to young people? Are they selling to a more mature audience? And that can help inform the scene for you that you are going to create. But you must, you must use your brain. And it's not easy, right? It is sometimes it is. Like I rack my brain trying to figure out what is this saying? Like I don't even know. This is so ethereal and so out there that I don't even know what this is saying. But I, I find that if I keep rereading the lines, somewhere along the line, if I look at the important nouns, if I look at the objects, if I look at the emotion of it all, I can really read more into it to try to figure out, okay, this would make sense. Now, if this was a storyline where somebody was upset that something wasn't going right, and this product -- like the EpiPen, right -- was truly meaningful and could really help save a life. And so I think if you just continually look at the words, see how the words fit together, and then if you have any clues whatsoever in the script, go ahead and Google it. And that's gonna help you find out maybe what the brand is. What do they actually do? Do they serve multiple demographics? What are the colors? I mean, you can just go into like the visually, what are the colors on the website? What is their tone of voice on the webpage? You know, the verbiage on the webpage? How do they approach their clients? And I think that will really help to help you build the scene that you must improv. Lau: Yeah. And if you go to their YouTube channel, you're gonna see visuals of what the culture is like, what the sound, feeling, environment is like. I mean, put yourself in that environment. That's the old actor Johnny Depp type exercise where the method actors would always go to the place that their character is in and just feel what the place feels like. Well that's kind of important because if I'm doing a lot of corporate work, and I'm getting a lot of corporate narration or corporate scripts, and I've never worked in corporate America, and I have no idea what it's like, just go somewhere, be in a big tall glass building with people who wear suits and see what it feels like, right? See what they eat and drink, hear how they talk. Or just go to a Starbucks. You'll see 'em in Starbucks, hear how they talk. So that you're not necessarily mimicking them, but you're getting an essence, a suggestion of where you wanna head towards that may be very different from your world and your existence. You wanna talk the lingo, have a sense of that. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. You wanna be able to align to the environment, right? And I think, Lau, if I said to you, is improv important in promos? Lau: Improv is important in everything, Anne: Right. So why? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm thinking my students would be like, yeah, but you don't really need to improv in a promo, or you don't need to improv when you're doing a phone system. And I would tend to disagree with you heartily. I think improv is needed everywhere. I'd like your take on that, Lau. Lau: I agree. As I said, I think it's an immense tool to find your interpretation. Like if I'm gonna give more than one take, or let's say I'm just dealing with an in-house client. I'm not auditioning; they're just calling me and I'm giving them takes, I'm gonna say, wait a second, who's calling? Like, who are the people that are calling? What if I have an impatient person calling going to the system, right? I have a person who's a seller or pitcher calling? What if I have a young teenage person calling the system? How am I coming across to them? How would I speak to them differently and what their different needs are? That would be an improv tool that I would start to be utilizing in that telephony or whatever system. Anne: And if you're a voice for a healthcare system, right? Okay, somebody's calling for an appointment, right? They're nervous, they're not feeling well, or you know what I mean? They want the results of their test. Understand who it is that you are going to be talking to, right, and then talk to them. I always say that when I read the back of pharmaceutical labels, I do medical narration, and I want to be able to speak to that person who is nervously looking at the back of the bottle and saying, oh my God, I have all of these symptoms. That's me, by the way. I have every single symptom ever known. And who do I call in case I die? That kind of thing. I'm taking that lightly, but I really do think about the person that's going to be looking at this bottle and what I'm voicing and I'm improv-ing, right? I'm playing that scene out in my head so that I can voice it better. And so that's for medical narration, and for promos, you know, tonight, like if you're doing like a television promos, right? Still, you've gotta get into the mindset of who's the audience that watches this show, and how can you -- hey, oh my God, did you catch the latest episode of — that kind of thing? You've got to get into their mindset 'cause you're talking to them. And that is where improv will come into play, right? Know that network, know that show. Be the person that watches that show and talk to them. Lau: And if anything, if you don't believe in anything we're saying, just talk and listen to people talking because that's one big, huge improvisation. Conversation is just one big, huge improv. Life is one big, huge improv 'cause we don't really know what's coming up next. So you don't have to perform, you don't have to act, you don't have to do anything other than listen, observe and communicate. Because then you're improv-ing. Anne: And I will tell you that every other month, or at least once a quarter, if you join the VO Peeps, we do have a workshop that covers improv. We do it. I think it's necessary to continually just keep your skills up. And I know, Lau, I'm sure you have something is part of your group as well? Lau: We do. We have a Monday night improv mania that runs. It's a lot of actors, a lot of VO talent. A lot of people come in, even just people who are in business come in and they just want to -- Anne: And it's so much fun. Lau: Fun. Yeah. They wanna free themselves, wanna be free. Anne: And that's the thing. Yeah, improv should be fun. It shouldn't be stressful. And the only way that you're gonna make it fun is by doing it really. And just getting yourself used to it and getting those responses quicker and quicker and quicker. And thinking off the cuff. And it will always help you especially — I've just had a conversation with Dave Fennoy talking about video games. You know, the storyline and video games is constantly evolving and changing. Improv is huge. You may prepare your character for one set of scenes, and then when you get to the studio to record somebody's changed the script on you. And that could be for video games, that could be for commercial, it could be for any script where you might have last minute changes. So I think it's so important, guys, that we are well-versed in improv, know how important it is and go out there and practice it. Lau: I love it. Here we go. Ready for the improv of life. Anne: The Improv of life. You guys, I'm gonna give a great big sponsor shout-out to ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also want to give a shout-out to 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Thanks so much, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

There are very few things in life that are black and white. The world is full of nuances, nuances that can be challenging when they come up in business. Anne & Lau dive into the emotions & decision making process that happens when you make a decision to protect the ethics of your business. Most people don't want to talk about ethics in business. They are uncomfortable with the topic and don't know how to approach it, but discussion is one of the only ways to bring awkward subjects into the light. No decision is without trade-offs. It usually means losing something, whether that's time, money or energy. When faced with a tough decision, ask yourself how this feels in your gut? Is it the right thing for you? For the future of your business? Remember, there are no right or wrong answers. Only decisions that feel right or wrong for you at this moment in time. Transcript It's time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited today to bring back to the show Lau Lapides. Lau: Hey. Anne: Yay. Hey Lau. Here we are. The BOSS Superpower series. I'm so excited. Lau: Me too. I feel like it's been a long time since I saw you. Anne: I know, right? Lau: I just came back from vacation. Anne: Well, and I, of course I'm working over here like a dog (laughs), and I need a vacation now. But I have to say I encountered something that was difficult for me and my business while you were having fun in the sun there. And I thought we could talk about it today. And it's all about ethics, and ethics in your business, and what you can do to get through a situation that is not easy to deal with, especially when it comes to your moral ethics in terms of will you work with a client. So I had a client. And they asked me for something that did not sit well with me, Lau. And it made me feel icky. (laughs). Lau: Gotcha. Oh my gosh. Anne: Yeah. And it was one of those things where the opportunity was great. There was gonna be opportunities for more work, and this was a very well-known brand. And I really struggled, and it was one of those things, and I thought, well, is it worth it, right, to align myself with this brand when I'm kind of feeling icky about what they're asking me to do, because it could mean more work if I maybe choose not to work with this client? Will I be seen as somebody that's not easy to work with or difficult to work with and will they tell other people? And so it just became, ugh, such a difficult decision, Lau. And I know that in our businesses, I like to think that everything's easy, and all the clients are easy and I get to choose what clients I wanna work with. But every once in a while, a client can also kind of flip on you (laughs). So typically I think I'm a good judge of character, and I can say this is gonna be a great work relationship, and I'm gonna be able to work with this client. But sometimes those clients, maybe the company changes hands or you're working with somebody else from the company, or the rules change or the policy change or whatever it is. Or the script changes. This actually didn't really have to do with the script, Lau, but I also think this applies to any potential job that talent have the opportunity to voice that maybe they don't agree with the copy, with the script. Lau: Right. I'm telling you, as long as I've been alive on this earth, I can tell you that the longer you're in business, the more often you're going to experience this kind of thing. And, and it is to be expected. And as uncomfortable as it is, and it is really uncomfortable, and I, you know, I'm trying to put on my empathy face right now, I also have that feeling that yeah, it's to be anticipated, it's to be expected. And I always like to think of it as like a magic carpet ride. You've got this beautiful carpet, you created it, you're floating, you're flying, you're moving in the direction you wanna be moving in. You're going fast, you're high. Anne: I was flying high, Lau. Lau: Flying high. You feel really secure. You got your seatbelt on. Then all of a sudden the carpet gets pulled out from under you and then you fall. And you feel like you're falling, you feel like your credibility's falling, your hopes are falling. The perception of your audience is falling. You feel like you're losing something. And it's scary 'cause you don't know how it's gonna land. You don't know, am I gonna survive this? Am I gonna get out the other way and get up and run? And you always do. You always do. You're most resilient person I know. Like you're gonna get up and run after it. But to go through it is really like, what would you call it? Like the milestone of moving through life and moving through your business and saying when difficult things happen, that's when I build my character. That's really how I react to that and how I stand my ground, and how I build my character is really, I'd like to say what it's all about at the end of the day. And I think you're amazing in the choices that you're making. And so you're making choices about this, right? Anne: Yeah. Oh yeah. Lau: The path, which way you went. Anne: I have to say I made the tough choice, and I chose not to work with the client. And after that, Lau, I had days, I had days where I was second guessing that decision, thinking what would be the ramifications and how would it affect my business, in all aspects. Because I thought, well, this might become something that other clients will know 'causethis client knew a lot of other potential clients that I've worked with. And so it became a thing where I had to sit back in a quiet space and just ask myself how does my gut feel? And I, I know we've talked about this is I, I like to run my business by my gut, and I usually listen to my gut, 'cause for me it's usually the right thing. But I'll tell you, I was back and forth with this and once I made my decision, then I second guessed myself again for days. I mean there was no way, once I had made the decision to cut the relationship; I mean, I couldn't really go back. And so then I just sat there and worried and I thought, oh no. And again, you think that being in business all these years, maybe it would be easier. Or I would be able to get through it quicker. But I think maybe sharing my experience with the BOSSes out there, I can at least share my experience and, and talk to people about here, it happened to me. This is how I felt. Like how did I feel? I felt like once I was given the opportunity, and it was presented with a job, I was initially like taken aback and was so surprised. And then I thought, oh, that doesn't seem right. (laughs) That just doesn't seem right. And so I asked a couple of close friends and colleagues of mine what they thought if maybe I was misreading something. 'Cause I wanted to kind of have another set of eyes on it. And of course this was with people that I trusted and of course I wouldn't wanna shout this on social media or on the rooftops because again, it was a private connection between me and my client. And so I kind of got other people's first initial reactions, which were similar to mine from a lot of people that I spoke to. I then sat with it for a while, and I couldn't get it outta my brain. It was one of those things that, until I said something, we were gonna be working together. It was just gonna be a wonderful thing and a great relationship that was gonna continue on, and I was just gonna continue to work with this client, and things were gonna be lovely, and my business was gonna be accelerated by this. But I kept thinking and feeling in the back of my brain and in my heart that something just didn't sit well. And so then I made that tough decision to cut ties with the client, and then there's the ramifications of the back and forth because I cut the ties with the client through an official email. Right? I had to do that. I would've liked to have actually maybe had some, I don't know, some Zoom time or maybe a phone call. But I had to cut the ties via email. And that was tough. I mean, because trying to go back and forth on something that it's a little more than a, than a negotiation on a job, it's tough to do through email, through text or email. And I was hoping that I would have an opportunity to further, I don't know, either talk to the client and maybe -- I didn't burn any bridges. I didn't wanna burn any bridges. And that was important. So I think that when that happens, BOSSes, you have to really consider, I don't wanna burn bridges. That's just kind of who I am. Although you may not be able to do it without burning a bridge. What are your thoughts, Lau, with all of your years and and experience in the businesses that you've built? It's happened to you. Lau: Oh my goodness. Yes. That's the thing. And you and I talk about this all the time, Anne, you can't get through life completely unscathed, as much as we would like to because we're positive minded people. We wanna think the best of our connections. We wanna give the best, we have the best intentions. You're dealing with human communication. You're dealing with behaviors of human beings that have this whole frame of reference that has nothing to do with you. They're coming to the table with a whole life, a whole mindset, a whole viewpoint that has nothing to do with you. So in my mind that slides into every single exchange that happens, their ethics, their behavior, their morality, their persona. That kind of goes into the mix. And we have to understand that, that when we're doing the recipe, it's not always gonna taste good. The cake's not always gonna come out the way we think it's gonna come out. And that's okay. So I think as women, we make a couple mistakes. One is we do take the brunt, we take the emotional brunt of having to make important decisions or what we perceive to be important decisions and stand that ground and feel uncomfortable with that, and take on the other's trauma, the other's mistakes, the other's whatever. We take that on and we emotionalize that. And I think that's a big issue for us as women because we're high pathos. We're very visceral beings. That's what makes us good at our jobs. But it also is a double-edged sword because that's what makes us take on a lot of things that are not our problem. They're just not our problem. So being able to objectify it just enough, sort of like an audition. So for those of you who are listening in who audition for a living, right, you have to care about it. You have to emotionalize it enough. You have to connect to it so it's authentic. But then when it's done, you have to walk away from it, and you have to disconnect, and you have to not make it the most important thing in your world. And that's the skill that you have, that all successful people have to cultivate is not saying, oh, I don't want things to go wrong. I don't want things to happen where the rug is pulled out from under me. No. But saying -- Anne: I don't wanna disrupt things. I don't wanna disrupt things. Lau: Yes. It's like, are you a gentle disruptor? Are you an eloquent disruptor? Are you an intelligent disruptor? But the disruption will happen. It's just the nature of dealing with human beings, and it's the nature of business. Business is just difficult (laughs) on so many levels. It's tough. It's not easy. And I think if we could learn to objectify enough and walk away, that would be really important to do. Another thing we do too is we exaggerate situations. I noticed this in myself for many years, 'cause I was an actor. I was a professional actor for many years. And I would say, am I a drama queen? I mean, am I, what is wrong with me? Oh ah, I'm an artist. I see things in a certain way, typically emotionally first. And then it becomes larger and larger and larger and larger until it's like massive. But to the outside world, they don't see it that way. To them, it's small, it's simple, it's almost non-existent at times. So I found that for me as a technique to save myself and sort of objectify and say, I think I'm blowing this out of proportion. I think I'm exaggerating this into something really huge when I don't think it's viable as a huge thing. I think it's just my perception in the moment of the massiveness of it. The truth is we're not a golden calf. We can be replaced; they can move on. And then sometimes it's almost as if it never happened. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I like that you mentioned the over dramatization and, and that I think in terms of feeling the way that I was feeling, right? Oh my gosh, is this going to bring down my business? What are people going to think of me? What if other people find out what happened, and that kind of thing. And I, and you're right, I think it became like for me, emotionally bigger than it should have because I beat myself up over it for a good few days and spent a lot of energy thinking about what if, what if, what if, or oh my gosh, and being stressed out about it that I feel that I probably wasted a lot of energy on that. And I think at that point, when you're going through something like that, having the support of colleagues and friends that can remind you of things like, hey look, this is okay. Do what you feel is right. We'll support you no matter what -- I think that's so important to help you through the tough times for that. And also I think being able to talk about it with a trusted colleague is going to be very, very helpful. And just to remember those things. I mean that's something you said to me, look, why is it that you feel bad for something that has nothing to do with you? And you're right, to the outside world, like it's insignificant, right? And a lot of times we build those issues up in our brain to be larger than life, when in fact nobody's really necessarily even thinking about them or concerned about them. But for me, in my business, I was in such a dilemma. And so I think that for me, after I went through the days of second guessing myself, stress, thinking about what if, what if, what if, I now have come out the other side, and I am proud that I stood my ground and did what I believed in, and I feel stronger for the experience. And again, this is not the first time it's happened to me. And I'm sure it's happened to you as well multiple times in your business. It's happened to me before and I've come out the other side fine. And I should remind myself of those things. But I think every situation is different. And in the moment, it may seem like it's, oh my gosh, it's the worst thing in the world that could happen. Lau: It's the worst thing in the world. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And also just for you to note, and I love doing this as a coach but also as a person in the world -- I love passing on what someone says about someone else that they would never know that could be like super amazing and life changing. So I passed on the generality of the situation to a dear female coach and family member of mine of many, many years, just generally speaking. And you know what she said about you, Anne, and you, you don't know her at all. She's not in the industry. She's actually a therapist. Not my therapist. But she's a therapist in the world and we have a lot of crossovers 'cause we're both coaches; she's a life coach. And she said, isn't it nice to know, Lau, that you're not only working with someone of that caliber, but there are people still left in the world that character and morality really means something to them? Anne: Wow. Lau: And are willing to stand their ground for it? And I thought, oh, it's so uncomfortable and upsetting to Anne, but it's so amazing. And like, I don't know what the word is, but it's so like revolutionary to the people who witness it around you, who say — it's almost like you can take a breath and say, wow, there are people in our industry that feel something real about injustice when it happens and actually do something about it, but do something in a very professional, kind, diplomatic, and thoughtful way, not a hostile, angry, violent way. Oh, I love that civility. That level of civility and diplomacy I think is to really be rewarded. And again, you don't know it, and you don't feel it in the situation, and you feel quite oppositional to that. But those around you, your circle that circles you, that witnesses that is really inspired and in awe of that. It sort of gives other people courage. It gives other people strength to say, yeah, if something comes at me, and my rug gets pulled out from under me, people like Anne, people like — are doing things to help build themselves up without getting destroyed by it. I can do that too. Anne: Well, I appreciate you telling me that. Thank you so much. And now I feel even better about my decision and I appreciate you saying that to me. And I think it was very important and worth mentioning again, when you are handling something like this and taking a stand, especially when it's in regards to your business -- and this could just be me. I'm always like trying to be the professional, always trying to not burn my bridges. Because again, you never know where your relationship will go, how the client will react, maybe something wonderful can happen out of it. So I never choose to burn my bridges. And so I did break ties with the client as professionally and as diplomatically as I could and thank them for the opportunity to work with them and appreciated everything that we had worked on together. And yeah, I think that's an important thing to consider when you are faced with ethical decisions. And again, this doesn't just have to be about scripts, because I know we've spoken about that before. I mean it could be like, well, what if you get a script and you have to voice something that you don't believe in? I'm strong on that one. I'm like, I don't have to voice that. Like to me, that's a no-brainer. But when it came to my business and working with a client that I thought maybe didn't align to the same goals as I did and making that tough decision, I think that the ethics, it's all around. We have to address ethics all around in our business. Not just on what script we voice. And again, BOSSes out there, I entirely encourage people that if you don't feel comfortable voicing a script, you can take that stand and turn that down. Lau: Or even you are not comfortable working with someone. Like you don't have to justify it. It's okay. You don't have to tell everyone. But you can certainly internalize and say, why am I feeling uncomfortable? I just had this recently with a new partnership with an agent out in LA who was interviewing one of our people and said, you know, I have to be honest with you, I wasn't comfortable with him. This was on Zoom; this wasn't — I wasn't comfortable. I just didn't, I didn't like his personality. He made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't feel like I would be able to do dealings with him, and I didn't offer him a contract. And I said, well good for you. I didn't take any offense to that at all. I said if I were in your position, I probably would do the same. Because you wanna be able to have that free flow of ideas and conversation in that somewhat level of trust that you're on the same page, you're tracking kind of thing. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. That you align. Lau: You're tracking. I'm gonna make a prediction for everyone in the audience. Here's my prediction. My prediction is this client, Anne, is gonna come back to you for future things, whatever that is. Whether it's a recording job or whether it's uh, something else. And you're gonna have another decision to make. And that is, do I want to work with them? Because somehow how we feel like, oh, the coffin shut, the nails are in. And that's often not the case because guess what? The time goes by. They realize who their friends are, they realize who they can trust. They realize and they say, you know, that wasn't a comfortable thing that happened, but a year has gone by. Two years have gone by. I miss her. Where is she? Let me got in contact with her again. Don't be surprised if it's not the end of the relationship. Anne: Yeah. Very interesting. Hmm. Wow. Well, it certainly was something that threw me for a loop this past week, and I'm glad I'm out the other side. But I did wanna share my experiences 'cause I thought maybe if I can help anybody — and it's funny because I'm, I'm very much a person who likes to showcase my business as being together. And every time, Lau, you and I get together on this show, I'm always going, oh my God, Lau. I've sabotaged myself. I'm feeling insecure, but I'm sharing because I'm hoping it will help people that they're not alone. This happens even if you've been in the industry for a long time, and it looks to everybody like -- I mean I like to think that I have it together, but ultimately the experiences that I go through have helped me to build my character, build my business stronger and hopefully continue to do that. I think the last thing I want, because I put so much of myself into it, is for my business to not survive something like a client relationship that I have decided not to pursue any further. Lau: I also think too, unless you run the kind of business where you're really relying on one or two or three clients to keep you alive -- I think you're so diversified and you working with so many people, I don't think that's actually possible when you have so many irons in the fire. But I think it's that, again, it's that sort of blown out of proportion perception, that six months down the line or a year when we are talking, you'll be like, how did I take that so hard? Or why was that so important to me? Anne: Why was that so hard for me? Yeah. Lau: Why did I go through that? I did the right thing. But why did I, like we, we have a Yiddish word called grizsha. Grizsha. It means to sit for a week and just worry and up, grizsha and upset. Make friction for yourself because you're going through the process of it. It's like grief. It's a loss. You're going through a loss. Anne: Yeah, that's exactly right. That it was a loss. And I always think, well, the reason why I went into business for myself is so that I didn't have to go through the stresses that I went through when I was working for people. Right? When I was working in the corporate world. And I was like, I'm not gonna be beaten by the man. And literally I'm like, this is what I love about working for myself is that I get to choose. Right? I get to choose who I work with. I get to choose the projects. And again, I think that is such a wonderful blessing, and it's such a wonderful thing to be able to build a business for yourself. 'Cause you do have the options to make all these choices. And I think that if you do end up going through an ethical dilemma, I think it's good for the soul, even though it wasn't pleasant going through it. And I second guessed myself and stressed out, and -- but I do think that it is one of the reasons that I think being employed or self-employed and having your own business is such an advantage. I mean, we have those choices in front of us to decide upon who we work with. And again, I don't think you get to that point in your business until you're confident and you have -- for me, it always comes back to, and this is a sad thing to say, but it's a reality is, if you have the financial stability in your business to be able to really make those decisions. And I am grateful, and I'm also proud of the fact that I've built my business to the point where I'm okay, I can say no to a client. And I think any BOSS out there that has been able to do that, wow. I mean how wonderful is that? It's just an amazing thing and you should all be so proud that you are able to make those decisions and able to decide whether or not you want to work with a client or not. That's a luxury. Lau: It's a huge luxury. And you have to have that awareness of not being such a people pleaser, such a yes person that you're doing that at the demise of you, your business, your model, your time, whatever. Like that's an ethical dilemma for a lot of people. I went through it for many years 'cause I'm a natural-born people pleaser. Anne: Yeah, me too. Lau: I was brought up that way actually. And I love having that quality still. A lot of people call me Mama Lau, 'causeit has like sort of caring -- Anne: Oh yeah. That's great. Lau: — essence to it. But at the same token, you have to be very careful because there are things you must say no to. There are things you must decline, you must whatever. And those are the hard moments, whether they're ethically driven or financially driven or whatever, that you just know in your heart, I really shouldn't be doing this. Or I really don't wanna do this or what — and you're still saying yes, that's your own ethical dilemma. That's your own saying, what is my value system? What are my principles? What do I stand for? And sometimes there's nothing wrong on the other side. It's just you shouldn't be doing it for whatever reason. You know what I mean? So I think you're awakening us all to really having a good hard heart to heart talk with ourselves and saying, yeah, what do we believe in? What do we wanna be doing? What do we wanna spend our time with? When is it okay to say no? And just set that up. Just be okay with that. Don't kill yourself because you're saying no for whatever reason. Anne: Yeah. Good talk. Thank you, Lau. Lau: Amazing. Anne: Mama Lau. Lau: Amazing. Anne: I love Mama Lau. (both laugh) That's pretty awesome. Oh man, great discussion. Thank you so much as always. Words of wisdom, golden nuggets from Mama Lau (laughs). BOSSes out there, as individuals, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never before thought possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.