VO BOSS

Sometimes we get so wrapped up in doing what we love that we forget that our work is still just work (even if it’s the most fun job in the world). This week, Anne & Lau are joined by special guests Aria Lapides, Carol Alpert & Daniel Marion to discuss how & why community support is so important. Building a creative family includes building support systems outside of your professional circle. This may include your family, friends, and even other voice actors who you can count on for help. The voice-over industry is a small world, and it’s important to build relationships with fellow actors and creatives. They will help you grow, learn, and encourage you when things get tough. It can be hard to separate our egos from our projects but being able to do this allows us to accept criticism more easily. Tune in to join this VO Family… Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Vo BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and today I am excited to bring back my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you? Lau: Hey, I'm great, Anne. How you doing? Anne: I'm doing amazing. We have a VO Family with us today. I am very excited. . Anne: Well you know, I think having people that support us in our businesses is so very important to our success. And I don't know honestly where I would be if my husband in the beginning had not given me his full support in launching our business. For an entrepreneur, launching a business, especially coming from a corporate background, I was used to getting that check every other week. And I had a very stable, I was gonna make this amount of money, and I was dependent on that to pay the bills. And going into the entrepreneurship of my VO business, all of a sudden things became very woo, I don't know what's happening today. I don't know what's happening tomorrow. When's my next job coming? And I'll tell you, the support of my husband was just invaluable and the support of my family too. I mean, I know there's so many of my students who will tell me stories about their families don't support them or -- I myself had my mother, God bless her. But she would say to me every once in a while 'cause she didn't understand exactly what I was doing. And she would say, you know, honey , when you get a real job, I think it's gonna help. You know? And I would be like . I would be like, It's okay. Mom, I'm an entrepreneur. And it was funny because it was hard to explain to people who don't understand the entrepreneurship lifestyle. Thoughts? Lau: Uh yes. And it's almost unexplainable. I mean you cannot -- it's truly a lifestyle business. It's one that you live and you experience and you have to be suited for it. Not everyone is suited for it. Many people want a nine to five job. They want Benny's, they want pension, and God bless them, and I'm happy that they know that. Like I'm one of those people that knows I don't want that. So you have to be okay with not being okay a lot. It's really important. Remember that famous book from the 70s, "I'm Okay, You're Okay," that famous psychology book? Well, we're not always okay. And so that's the little edginess, that's the little on the edge of the cliff that a lot of us love the dopamine kick and get excited by the risk taking of it all. So yeah, you have to be cut out for it, right Anne? Anne: Absolutely have to be cut out for it. Or if you're not cut out for it, you gotta get used to it pretty darn quick. It's always one of of those things. There's a lot of highs. There's a lot of lows. For me getting used to the lows and kind of driving through them, and we've talked about this on previous podcasts, really is a mental exercise in pushing good energy out there so that you can survive. So let's introduce the VO Family that we have here today. Now Lau, these are part of your VO Family, so let's have you introduce them. Lau: Oh, I would love to. So I have Carol Alpert, who we were talking about on another podcast. I don't think Carol was here. So I love talking about her when she's not here because then I can kvell, which is Yiddish for like just give her honors and awards and accolades and kudos, because everyone needs a Carol. Like if you could buy a Carol, you would buy it, put it on layaway. It doesn't matter how much it costs, it's so worth it, because she is my friend, my family, my support system. She's a sister I never had, so I can't say enough about Carol. Carol: Thank you. Lau: Professional actress and VO talent herself in her own right. And I'm thrilled to have her as part of our Family going in our 14th year. And we have Dan Marion with us from Texas who is just the bestest of the best, fantastic person. And you know, we haven't actually known Dan too, too long. I don't know, maybe a year, year and a half. But yet there's always this feeling with people that come into your non-blood related family that you've known them forever. And he's like one of those people that even across the Zoom waves and even across the states, we feel like he's part of us and one of our family, and that we support 100% in every way. Pro VO, part of our MCVO division family as Carol is as well. So that's thrilling, and he's a wonderful coach as well as has technical prowess as well. And then Aria Lapides, who is in the house and she is my everything. Anne: She's in the real house. Lau: She's in the real house 'cause she's like, I call her my better half. She is my daughter but has turned into my business partner and my best friend and really just a spiritual little fairy cohort for me to keep me floating, and to keep me imagining, and to keep me together in this whole crazy business we've created. And in her own right is now a professional actress and filmmaker and photographer and is really incredible visual and performance artist. And so she's a big part of our Family. Anne: Fantastic. So you have coworkers, you have two coworkers and a family member. So first of all, let's talk -- Aria. Being a member of the family, what's it like for you being a part of the business and being part of the support for your mom and in this voiceover industry? Aria: Oh wow. That's a big question, especially 'cause it's not just voiceover, it's so many things. It's all in acting and everything that you guys said is so true, the importance of having people to support you. Because in this industry, it's so blind. Like when you're sending a voiceover audition or a casting audition or a acting audition, it's blind. So all you have is your support team and how much they're pushing you and how much they're being truthful with you. And I could say that, you know, even though it's like I'm supporting my mom, which I do, of course, it's like she's supporting me just as much if not even more. Like she supports me in everything. And it's so important because there's so many different aspects from technical to the actual acting values that have to be there to, well what happens when I do get the job? Like what do I do? Yeah, I would say that it's a really amazing because I've been able to grow up in an industry that's very creative, very cool. Like really, really cool. Um, I know some people have family businesses that are a supermarket. So it's really cool to be in one that's very creative. Things are very open, you can coach, you -- I mean I've dived into filmmaking and producing acting reels and working with actors and, and I gotta say, it, it is really so cool to see like my mom every single day like have new ideas and new things that she's doing all the time. Like she's always so active and she's, she's right. It's a lifestyle business. She's almost never not working, which is wild. Lau: And you know, Anne, what's really amazing here is that both of my children, my son's Sage, who's incredible -- he's not in the industry, he's in a totally different industry -- were homeschooled. And so I was bringing them up as I was starting the business and running the business, which was crazy. Like it was crazy town. You can't imagine. So who knew this crazy little girl who was like throwing legos at me one day, it would kick in that she would be coaching clients and she would be directing a film shoot and she would be voiceover auditioning for Pixar. And it feels like that happened overnight. Like that just happened overnight. It's like how you and I feel about our clients. Anne, it's like you see the grooming of that throughout the years of the rapport, the relationship, the trust, the back and forth. And then all of a sudden it kicks into something in high gear that you see all of your hard work and investment in your business come alive. And I've seen that in Aria literally since a little tiny girl to now like the business has just created this whole human being that knows so much for someone who's only 19. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Incredible. Anne: Now, I'm gonna ask do you two disagree at times? I mean -- Lau: Yes. Anne: -- family wise or work wise? Lau: Yes. Anne: And how does that play out? How does that interact with your businesses? Aria: Can I start on this one? Anne: Of course. Aria: 'Cause it's so funny that you say that because, yeah, because like especially in like let's take filming for instance, it's so hard. And that's so interesting that you asked that 'cause me and my mom were having this conversation last night of like being able to let go of control and knowing that you are not your work. Like even my mom's business is not her. I mean me and my house is separate from me filming, me acting, me doing anything that's a separate entity from who I am. And there's like this level of separation that you have to do to be able to give over the control to a director or to your mom or to a casting agent to be like, that's a beautiful image. That's a beautiful take on this, but it's completely different, and we need you to do that. And it's like separating your ego from your work. And it's a really, really tough thing to do, especially from a young age, 'cause you're like, wait a second, I thought my ego was the thing that was driving these creative things that are happening. But it's like, no, no, no, no. It's just an idea. It's constantly shifting and changing. So the more that you are flexible with it, the more you can get better at it really. Yeah. Lau: Anne, I wanna jump in on that one 'cause that's a fantastic question. I'm actually gonna answer that super straightforward because Aria recently secured new agency representation, really big out of LA. And one of the meetings they had with me because I'm her momager, and for those people who don't know what a momager is, it's a manager, a legit manager who's also a mom. Or it could be a dad, like a dadager. But I'm a momager. One of the first questions they asked of me in private was, do you guys fight? And he comes from the, literally the school that I come from where we're in the same program together. And I looked at him and I said, yep, 'cause I'm also her coach for all of of her auditions. And he said, how does that play itself out? How do you guys remedy that, whatever. And are you honest with her? See this is good for the VOs to be listening to because if they deal with the manager or if they're dealing with a family member, they have to like start having these lines of demarcation. Like what works for their personal relationship and what works for their professional relationship. And I leaned over and I said, yep. Because I tell her the truth, because I want her to be the best. If, if she sucks, I'm gonna be the one to tell her before anyone else does. And he said, great, I'm glad to hear that. So we'll probably take her on then. Now if I had said no, she's the best thing since sliced bread, I would never fight with her. In fact, she needs to be a star. In fact you -- they wouldn't have taken her. They would not have taken her. And this is like the deal for all VOs when you're dealing with agents and and managers and the like. It's like be honest. Like be honest. You don't wanna be the person who's a difficult person, who is always causing conflict. And we're certainly not that. But you wanna be honest and transparent about, yeah. When you're working hard on your craft, there's a lot of rocky road, there's obstacles, there's just agreements, there's arguments. Yeah. There is, and how do you work through it? How do you problem solve it? That's what we're hiring you for. That's why we wanna work with you. Not because you're sitting in a place where you're angry or you're not talking to each other, it's not working out. But a place where you go through that wall and you get to the other side of it. And I believe that's what Aria and I has done through the years to be successful. Anne: I just wanna say congratulations and kudos on that. And what you said I thought was so important was getting to the other side, right? Because you're friends, you're work partners, you're family, there's going to be times where there's probably going to be arguments, there's going to be anger, there's gonna be hurt. And you have to be able to get to the other side of that so that you can move forward. And I think that was such an important point that you bring up, Lau. Absolutely. Lau: Yes. And there have been many times, and I'm sure parents who are listening to this right now with their children who may be in the industry, or they're in the industry, or they're both in the industry, sort of swimming through those very muddy waters thinking what do I do? What do I do? And I've been advised many times by pro saying, Lau, you need to not work with her. It's really important. Don't work with her. Don't bring her into the business. Don't manage her because you wanna have a good relationship with her. And I said, no, no, no, no, no. If all the families through all the generations could work together, we can work together. It's just going to be a little bit more challenging, but we gotta be able to problem solve that. 'Cause your family and your Family should be the most trustworthy people that you surround yourself with. Not that you can't get awesome friends in the world, but they're the people you come back to and home to and confide to. And so you don't wanna lose that. You don't wanna cut that off just because we are blood-related. Anne: So let me just direct a question back at you, Lau. How has Aria helped you grow? Lau: In every way. I mean like it's immeasurable. I can't even tell you just from the idea of being, or the fact of being her mother has opened up so many doors in me as a person, as an actor, as a woman that I would not have experienced if I had not experienced her. Not easy, very difficult road, but very, very, very spiritual. The path less taken in a lot of ways, in how we melded this whole thing together, and adjust my stroke of luck I think that I had a daughter who had such immense talent in these fields. Because just because someone grows up in the industry and on a Hollywood set or wherever doesn't mean they have talent for it. It means they're connected. So she has immense talent, and much of which has nothing to do with me. Like she's a visual artist. I'm not a visual artist. She's an amazing visual artist. Aria: Even if you are talented, that's just such a small part of it. Because if we were all just talented, then you know, we would all be in Hollywood. But it really takes that group of support. I mean, you know, Carol came to the studio for me to help shoot one of her tapes, and then I'll ask someone to help you reader. And it's because we've got such a tightknit -- I mean even the new talent inner circle membership that's created a completely new community of people, of voiceovers and people who are actors and stuff. To have a community of people, to reach out, to ask what do you think about this, And ask different questions, it's so important. Because I'll say this, when my mom's not coaching me, my agency can tell. Anne: Mm, okay. Aria: They can tell. Lau: That is true. I do wanna say though, based on Anne's question, which I think is a brilliant question and a hard one to answer, is that she echoes back to me what I have taught her and given to her through the years. So I know that it actually happened. So there's a documentation that happened, and she teaches me all sorts of things that I didn't teach her that I need to learn. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So it's now an -- Anne: That's wonderful. Lau: -- reciprocal relationship professionally and personally that she authentically knows so much more than I do in so many ways, that I'm growing constantly as a person, as an artist, as a business person, just learning. 'Cause I think it's a myth that we're not, not learning from our kids or not learning from youth. It's really we're learning so, so much from them, we're just maybe not aware of it or we're not acknowledging it. Right? So I'm very aware of it, that there's so much that she and others in that generation as well are giving back and teaching that -- Anne: Oh yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Lau: -- going back. So it's measurable, it really is. I would say she's singlehandedly brought the business to a whole other level that it may not have gone to without her. Anne: That's fantastic. So now, Carol. Carol: Yeah. Anne: You have a professional and a personal relationship with Lau. I'm not sure which happened first. So let's talk about your story. What about prior to meeting Lau and prior to working with Lau, how was your support system? Did you have a support system? And then what happened when you connected with Lau and how has that helped you? Carol: Sure. Sure. And it's funny, I was thinking about that before. So I had a very long career in the airline industry. I worked for about 22 years, and then I had left, I took an early retirement. They were offering that -- it was Continental Airlines, they were offering at the time. I was a sandwich. My sisters and I are sandwiched. So there was a little bit of taking care of the parents. My, my kids were younger, the whole thing. And you know what, you just went and had and did it. And I'd always thought about voice over work. And so I did a little bit of that, did some dog care too because it was easy enough. I'm like, Oh good now at least there's that cushion. And then I, I met Lau. We live one town apart and there was a different location of the studio. It's still in the same town. She was offering a Meisner class. Now when I first started voiceover work, now mind you, I don't have an acting background. And so I'd learned all the technical stuff. I had done a demo, but I wish I knew Lau then and learned what I learned then of what I know now. 'Cause it's just leaps and bounds. So I had gone in, done the master, then I really realized how, gosh, there is just a universe of things that I need to know. And so from then on I had joined the studio, and you know, like they say the rest is history. This is what, 14 years now, Lau, 13? Lau: A long time. Carol: The studio was about a year old. The studio was about a year old when I came. And so it's been a long time. And then -- Lau: How old was Aria, Carol, when you came in? Aria and Sage, how old were they? Carol: So you know what, 'cause she's the same age as my daughters Juliana -- they're friends. So I don't know. She was what? Six maybe? Lau: Six. Six. Carol: Something like that. Six, yeah. Lau: Wow. Carol: So that was kind of the same thing too. So my, I was still involved with school too. You know, you were doing everything with that. And my husband's freelance too. He's a strength coach in fitness. So we were both doing freelance things, but it worked out. You make it work. Like you said, you have your family support. You have your expectations. Anne: I was gonna say, so you had good family support. That's fantastic. I just know it makes it dif -- my husband has a corporate job and I left my corporate job to go into my own business. And so that was a different kind of support relationship. But that's fantastic. I mean your husband kind of already knew what it was like to work freelance. And so I think you had a good support system there because if you were going into just from the beginning trying to build up your business, it takes some time. I mean, right, there may not be work right away. And I think that that is the critical moments in those low points, right? When you're, did I get the gig? Am I good enough? I mean all those questions I think we ask ourselves in the beginning of our careers, is this really for me? I know that's what I asked myself all the time. Had, had I not had the support of my husband kind of saying, it's okay, I believe in you. Just keep plugging away at it, I think I might have quit early on. Carol: Yeah. And that's why I said to myself, let me just get something else on the side too. 'Cause I needed to know that I was doing that as well. But it was the opposite. I was the one with the corporate job before and everybody in my family, we were independent. They're like, oh, how could you go in? You know, wasn't nine to five. 'Cause it's the airlines and there's no set hours -- you know, the hours are everywhere, but you just knew that you wanna do it. And it's just, the timing was good with that as well. And so all these years. But one thing that Lau had said too, you know, you're right. You go to the audition, what do I do? There is a huge vacuum of like, oh yeah, you can learn how to do voiceover work. That's such a surface thing. There isn't a lot, except from people like you, people like Lau who say, look, when you get in, well before Covid, when you go to the recording studio and you're asked to do the audition or if you're at home and you're doing this, what is the etiquette? What do I do? What are my expectations? One of the first times -- 'cause I did on camera as well, and I was getting work with on camera more than voiceover. So I didn't do as much. I always used to say, I said, gee, I wonder how I did? I was craving feedback. And I'm like, you know, where's Simon Cowell when you need him ? I was like, if I don't, if I stink, I stink. I didn't have that. And now when I first got it with Lau, I'm kind of like, am, am I in the right business? Because I wasn't used to it, but I was craving it. And then I realized I really needed it. And you may not wanna hear it, but let me tell you something. You grow and you grow and you grow. And so you really need that. And I think there's a little bit of a, of a misstep or a failure out there right now. 'Cause you know, everybody's so internet, you go on YouTube , you know, Yeah. YouTube's great for a lot of things, but you know what? You really need that guide and the trust. The trust that someone's gonna say to you, no, don't submit that audition. Yeah. That is not a good audition. Anne: Lau's not gonna pull any punches. That I know. Carol: Exactly. Anne: That I know about her. I don't know her as long as you do, but I know she's not gonna pull any punches. Carol: . No. Anne: She's gonna be truthful and honest, which I think that's so important, you know, coming from a source within the industry that can give you reliable feedback. And your family members, they might be trying to say it's okay, you know, I thought it was great. That kind of support. That's a different kind of support, right? At least you know they're on your side and they're not saying, well we gotta pay the bills or I thought you were gonna make all this money. Or there's lots of different family support out there. . Carol: But you know Anne, it's funny you said with the support. So my husband would like, sometimes I'd have to have him just hold the camera. I'm like, just record. Or how does this sound? No, it sounds fine. Not my daughter though. She'd be like, what was that? You know? She's the same age as Aria, and they're kind of the same on that too. But thank God. But I wanted to also say it's also finding people that you can trust. See, I may not be having a good gig or I may not be having a whatever, but I'm trusting the people that are giving me the feedback because they're not doing it. They're not making it about them; they're making it about me. And that's the crucial point. Like they're not gonna say, like Lau's not gonna say, Oh you're just starting voiceover. Let me give you five lessons. And you don't do this either, Anne, but how many are out there where it's the snake oil, and it's just like, no, you are not ready. You need to do this. Your breathing's off or whatever the thing is. So the trust is crucial. Lau: I wanna jump in Carol. I wanna say something about Carol ,again talking about her as if she's not here. I love doing that. . So the thing about Carol that made her very unique, first of all, she was very recognizable to me because we had a similar background in the way in which we grew up, and we were at the similar stage of raising children as well. So we had a lot in common. So it went from a client-coach relationship fairly quickly into a friendship, which much of the time doesn't happen for many reasons. And I wanted that. I accepted it, I wanted it, I welcomed it. But what I noticed about her work ethic, which I had not seen in most people I had met, where she has a conservatory style work ethic. And even some in conservatory don't have it. That is, she works like just a horse. Like, and that's part of our background. We both come from a Jewish background, grandparents who had nothing, came from the old country with nothing in their pockets, didn't expect a thing, and worked their tootsies off. So she came in with this work ethic that she did not want anything. She did not deserve anything. And if she didn't earn it, she's not gonna take it. And she was that everything person that would do anything at any time for anyone. And I'm telling you, even to this day, I can count on one hand the people that I know like that. Because most are very self-centered, self-driven and think about themselves first. Carol is very selfless and comes from a high work ethic of let me put someone else before me and let me fix it and get it done. And if I don't know how to do it, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it for you and I don't care. And I'm telling you, that is priceless. It's worth more than any diamond that you could find in your lifetime because that's the person you trust, you love, but also the person who comes straight from the heart, and that's something we're missing in our world. I'll be honest with, we're missing a lot of that in our world. That's self-centered, lack of narcissistic kind of, let me think about my community around me and do as much as I can for them before I do for myself. Anne: Well, I think honestly that just creates the good karma. It just comes back around. And I think that that can be very much a part of your success in your career, in life. This VO BOSS podcast was part of a giving back. And I hope that, you know what I mean, it becomes that sort of a thing that it becomes support. It can become a Family, so to speak, for the community. And it can just be something that can just continue to give back. And I get so much from it myself, from people that I've met that have listened to the podcast, and I've gained some wonderful relationships and some wonderful members of my Family. So. Lau: And that's why we adore you, Anne, and we completely support you in this. We're all working right now together. We're not getting paid. It's a Saturday. It's -- Anne: I know. Lau: Because we love what we do. We love each other. Carol: I'm so excited -- Lau: We love what we do. Yeah. Carol: You were one of the bigger names I first heard about. I'm like, Anne Ganguzza! Anne: Aw you guys. Thank you. Lau: So great. We gotta get Dan in here. I wanna hear from Dan. Anne: Yes. Lau: Dan. Anne: Let's talk to Dan. Dan, tell us your Family story and then how you got involved with Lau. Dan: Well, this is interesting because if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be involved with Lau. When I first started, I contacted you, and you listened to my demo. And the biggest thing that I had was whether or not I was good enough, whether or not I had the right sound, whether or not I had any talent whatsoever. And especially considering, and I know this is taboo in many circles, so slap me around now -- but I produced my own demo. And you were shocked at the quality of that home produced demo. But you gave me so much positive feedback, it encouraged me to submit to a few agents, and Lau was one of the first ones I submitted. Anne: There you go. Wow. Dan: So if it wasn't for you, this is karma coming around as far as trial. Okay? Anne: I did not know this story. Aria: This is literally full circle. Dan: You're welcome. Anne: Wow. Yeah. Dan: And part of that apprehension, you know, I know what you and I had discussed during our consultations that we had, and you were very patient with me. Thank you very much. But it came into a fear on top of that, when you're first starting out, it's a money issue. Am I to the point where I consider anything I do an investment or an expense? And that's a big thing when you're an entrepreneur. Right? Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Dan: I was so petrified that everything was going to be an expense and not an investment, and I wasn't smart enough then. So being with Lau, one of the nice things is she gives me that kick in the ass when I need it. And I do, 'cause I was always the one giving the ass kickings in everything that I did. Everything. I ran construction crews, on the shop floor, airport security, Lau enforcement, I was a training officer to running large scale global projects for a defense contractor. So I was always the alpha male. When you worked for yourself and you're unsure, that alpha male gets diminished. I don't care who you are. Anne: What a good point. Yeah. Dan: It gets diminished. Anne: Yeah. Dan: So it's not necessarily validation, but you need a shoulder and a support system to help you. And sometimes we get stuck on high center, so when you get stuck on high center, you need somebody to push you over that ridge and get you the rest of the way. Right? And that's what it was. And you've talked about it on your podcast too, where diversification is huge, especially during the down times. Like right now I'm going through a downtime now for me. So I took it upon to get marketing coaching. So that's prompted me to open things up. Video and and audio production. That's something else I can offer when VO is lagging behind. So all those things I get encouragement from, from the entire VO community, but especially the ladies here, 'cause I know I can be open and honest with them. And I'm gonna get open and honest feedback. But they expect the same outta me as well. Anybody who's coached with me knows that I'm gonna tell you how it is. I won't sugar coat it, because there's no point -- to me that does more damage. Anne: Sure. I agree. Dan: But Lau also opened that door for me for coaching. She let me sit in, offer opinions on, on several things, and once you get me going, I don't shut up . So I think that was part of it too. But now I coach regularly for her. And I also continue to coach because it should be a cradle to grave learning experience. I should never stop learning until I'm dead. Anne: Yep. Lau: That's right. Dan: But the most rewarding thing about the coaching is watching somebody else flourish in what you have helped them do. Anne: Sure. Dan: And I don't know if you've read lately, but there's a lot of back and forth about some of the coaching posts, and one of the things is you have to be able to have that fulfillment. It can't just be the snake oil salesman where it's just I want, I want, I want. It has to be a total giving experience, completely because we lose money when we coach. Coaching gigs pay a lot less than VO gigs. Anne: Yes. this is true. Dan: So, it has to be a passion. So yeah. But being a part of the Family -- and that's why it was so great when Lau told me about today. I said, Oh, this is a unique opportunity because for me today it has come full circle. It really has in in that aspect of it as far as Family goes. So thank you all. Lau: And Dan is a really gifted coach. I mean like talk about having talent, like talent does play a part in our success. Everyone has different levels of talent. It's incredibly subjective. And it's in the ear or the eye of the beholder. But there's no question he's a very gifted person in this industry, both technically and emotionally. And we love having him with us. And I wanna share one moment, Anne, of the personalization that you and I have spoken about for the past weeks and how important it is in building the relationships with each other. And that is my son, who's a US Marine, is going into law enforcement. And I'm constantly trying to find mentors for him, which isn't always an easy thing. And early on when I first met Dan and I had learned about his background in law enforcement, I said, oh, I'll ask Dan, maybe he could meet with him on Zoom for a few minutes just to give him a little bit of wisdom. He was just right there. He had no problem doing it. He was excited to do it. He was looking forward to that. And you know, this is a teenage kid he doesn't even know. And when he did that, when he was connecting in that way, I said, this is a father, this is a grandfather, this is what we say in Yiddish -- a really good, full-hearted human being. And those are the people that we always wanna be connected with in our universe. Because those are the people, whether you're working or not working, whether you're coaching or not coaching, whether you're making a lot of money or not, they're the people that build you up in your heart and in your spirit. And that goes a long way, much farther than money oftentimes. It goes a long way into why we live this life and why we stay together and connect. And he's just one of those people . Anne: And when I talk about success in your business, we're not just talking monetary success. It's success all around. And I do believe that having that support, having that love, having that openness and overwhelming, what I've heard today is honesty and willing to give -- I think that is one of the most important characteristics we can have, and be for someone to fully support them in this industry, and help them reach success in so many ways. So BOSSes out there, if you are struggling right now, find your Family. We're here at VO BOSS to help, and I'm here to help. I can connect -- I know a few people, I know a few good people that are sitting right here that I can help connect and anything that I can do, and I know you guys, it has just been a wonderful conversation. I thank you so very much for everything that you guys have contributed to today's discussion. I think it's so valuable. I love this Family. I love this Family. All: We love you. We love you. Anne: Thank you. Lau: And I should say one more thing before we go, and that is, just remember everyone you help, everyone you work with, everyone you connect with in these ways, a little tiny piece of you lives inside of them and goes where they go. And so we think, how do we fix the world? How do we help people? How do we do it? Just do it one person at a time. Because that person is gonna hold you inside of them if you're meaningful to them. And boy, will that explode over the universe, and it's one person at a time. Anne: Yeah. And speaking of making an impact, guys, if you would like to contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that you never thought possible, take a look at 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. I'd love to give a huge shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. Here we are connecting like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much, everyone. Carol: Thanks, everyone. Aria: Thank you, adios. Lau: Thanks, Dan. Carol: Good week. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Self-sabotage. We are all guilty of it. You can either fight it or embrace it. If you're not sure what sabotaging behaviors look like, Anne & Lau are here to call you out for everything from minimizing your accomplishments to chronic procrastination. When you're a small business, entrepreneur or creative, your inner voice can often get in the way. The good news is once you recognize the signs of self-sabotage, you can catch yourself & change the outcome. It is easy to feel imposter syndrome. It is easy to push tasks off. But nothing about success comes easy. Having a plan in place to overcome self-sabotage is what will help you beat it, and BOSSES, Anne & Lau have the tips to get every BOSS there. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series, with my guest co-host Lau Lapides. Lau, hey, how are you today? Lau: I'm fabulous. Ready to rock. Anne: Ah, Lau. I love recording our sessions. The thing about it is, BOSSes out there, of course we don't do this live. A lot of times Lau and I are doing this on Saturday. So we are working beyond the five day work week. And for me, I'm kind of a self-professed workaholic. Now there's sometimes where I feel that's a good thing. And sometimes where maybe it's not such a good thing because I really need to get out and refresh and get my creative spirit back. But I thought it would be a good time to talk about growing your business work ethic and how some people -- I know there's a lot of, a lot of my students are like, I don't know what's going on. I'm not getting any work. So what can I do? It's almost like they sabotage themselves before they've even begun. So that whole self-sabotage thing, Lau, what do you think about that? Lau: It's a big deal. I'm telling you, it's a big deal. It's a culprit. And I see it in every other person I work with that's self-sabo -- we'll call it the SS, the self-sabotage. It's so common. And unfortunately, many a time, the person is innocent. They really don't know they're doing it. They're not aware. Anne: I agree. Lau: They need to have an outside source, help them identify like, what is going wrong? What's going off? What are they doing? And what are they not doing that's getting in the way of really achieving their goals. Anne: Sure. And I'll have to say that a majority of let's say students that come to me and say, I hate marketing, or how do I get work now? And so I'll be like, well, you know, you, your marketing has to be an effort, a concentrated, strategized effort by you. And I find that there's an awful lot of people that don't necessarily either know that they have to put as much effort into it as they might in the beginning to get some traction in this industry, or they hate it so much. And they're like, well, I'm gonna take another classroom. I'm gonna get another demo produced. But in the meantime, the other work that needs to get done to really grow their business kind of sits. And it's almost as if they wait and they're like, well, why isn't work coming to me? I've been taking all these classes. I've got my demos. What do I do? And so I think part of it is an education for here's what it takes to really grow your business. And I mentioned earlier that we are here on a Saturday. We're here on a Saturday. And unfortunately, you know, I work six days a week. The one thing that I love about this business is if I need to take time to do something on a Saturday, then we know we'll record at a different time. But the fact is is that I know what has to go into it in order to get results. And unfortunately, sometimes it's a whole lot more than I want to think that goes into this. Yeah. To be successful. There's a lot more work. Lau: And unfortunately, I think the mindset that you just brought up earlier about I'm in school and I'm training and I'm doing demos. Why aren't I getting work? Well ask yourself this question. Am I going to hire a dentist who's in school to pull my teeth? Am I gonna hire a carpenter who's in school to build my $2 million home? Anne: Right. Right. Lau: Not to say, I don't want a mistake for the listeners you shouldn't be taking classes or training. We're always in professional development. Literally. I'm in professional -- you're in professional. Anne: Yep. Always. Lau: But it does not take the place of the exposure energy that you have to put into the world from a marketing standpoint to let people know who you are, what you do, what you provide, and do that on a consistent basis. It's not either, or it's both simultaneously. Anne: People can't hire you if they don't know you exist, you can't just expect to sit in your studio and wait for work to come to you. When I got into it, in the beginning, I mean, I did not judge the fact that I would have to market as much as I did, and sometimes to really get a good traction and get some consistent clients coming back, it doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen in a week. It may take years, just being real. And I really truly believe that the people that stick it out -- there's so many people that get their demos, and they're beautiful demos, but then they don't realize everything else that's required. Lau: Yeah, what you have to do with it. Anne: Right. And then if somebody will mention to them, you know, you need be concentrated effort in marketing. They'll make maybe a halfhearted attempt, and they don't go far enough to realize how much it really does take. And in that respect, they are sabotaging themselves. They're sabotaging what they invested all that money into to get the coaching, the demos, and then all of a sudden to not get any work like they're expecting, that is a version of self-sabotage. If you are not willing to put in the effort as much effort as you possibly can to make this a success. And I don't wanna make people think that it's not something that just happens overnight. It's not easy. There is somewhat of a work ethic you have to have to put into it. You get what you put into it, right? You get out of it. What you put into it. Lau: I say that all the time, you just took the words outta my mouth. I mean, it really is your investment of your time, your energy, your mindset, your work, everything has to be in it. Another one, another very popular one is the time management piece of really not understanding what your schedule is. Like I said, let's go to a chart, go to a chart, make a chart, make a block chart. Do something that makes it very tangible what I do Monday through Sunday. Like make it very real, like go to your studio, go to your office space, go and make sure you work X amount of time in your day. Because that habit, that consistency, that commitment that you make is gonna help obstacles move out of the way. Because it's very easy to say, but I gotta be with my kids and I gotta go to the birthday party and I have to get this, and I have to -- there's tons of stuff that we can let get in the way and really justify it and say, well, I have to get this done. I have to do this. This has to be a top priority if this is going to be a career for you. Anne: Absolutely. I think there has to be a commitment, a commitment to all pieces of the business. And again, we talk about this so much. It's not just about the performance. It's not just about doing auditions. It's really about the entire, the entire business. And even if -- I feel like I've become a queen of outsourcing only because I keep wanting to grow my business, and I feel like I cannot grow my business until I can offload some of the tasks that I have to do on a day to day basis to other people. And right now, literally, I mean, I'm not bragging about that, but I have nine people. I have nine people that specialize in what they do, helping me with my business. And I outsource that so that I can do all the things that I wanna do in my business and grow. If I do not hire these people, I will not be able to grow because I physically don't have more of myself to give. So thankfully for this podcast, just as an example, the time that I spend with you in here in our booth recording, the episode is what I put into that. Everything else gets outsourced. I have an editor who edits the episodes afterwards. I have someone who transcribes it. I have two people that do social media. I have a person who works on video clips. So there's literally so many people that are involved in this. I would not be able to put this together or be successful if I did not put the effort into it. And I feel like there's so many people that say, well, I started a podcast, but I don't really have any listeners. So how do I grow the podcast. Again, it's one of those things where you sit down and you say, okay, this is what it's going to take to be successful. And you also have to not sabotage it by understanding that yes, there are these many pieces and components that it will take to be successful. You can't just exist on being a great voice actor. There has to be the other parts of the business that come into play. And so in terms of sabotaging, there's also, I'm gonna say, let's talk about people who are new to the industry and then are afraid to charge a fair amount for their services. Right? And they're like, well, I don't have the experience. So therefore I'll accept this job for $50. Or I'm only gonna charge $50 because I'm new. Let's talk about that. That is a form of self-sabotage. Lau: Yes. And you know what? I just wanna recap what you just said, which was brilliant that the negating of delegating, like the importance of delegating and being unafraid to delegate and being unafraid to pay for that delegation in saying that's an investment -- I'm not spending money. I'm investing in my business and I can't do it all. Like, yeah, we wanna be superheroes. And to some degree we are, but there's only so much time in the day we have to function and then to grow our businesses. So having that realization that if I wanna grow to the next level, I do need to delegate. I do need to have help. And I do -- Anne: I need help. Lau: I do need to pay for it. Anne: I need help! Lau: I need to pay for it. Anne: Oh my God. Such a wonderful point that you brought up, and I'm gonna say myself even in the beginning, I'm a control freak. Is that a surprise? No. Lau: No. And I'm a control freak. Anne: I'm a control freak. Lau: Surprise. Anne: You don't know what it took for me to hire somebody. Lau: Anne, you were in the syndrome that we were all in that's just like, oh, I'll just do it myself. Anne: Yes, Lau: No, I'll just do it myself. I'll do -- Anne: You want it right -- Lau: -- I'll do it myself. Anne: Yeah. If you want it done right, you do it yourself. Well, guess what? That is a form of self-sabotage as well. Right? Not being able to let go of control and outsource those things. Right? Lau: Oo I love that, I love that. Anne: Right? So that was a form of sabotage that I, myself early on in my career, when I was like, no, I can do it. I can make my own webpage. I can do this. It was, I used to work in technology. I can do it. And honestly, it was not serving me to be the control freak. And it took a lot. And I love the fact that you brought up the money. Money is a huge self-sabotage for a lot of people. Number one, not charging enough or not feeling that you're worthy of charging what somebody who's been in the industry for, you know, 15 years -- you are worthy of that. You've made an investment in your coaching and your demos. People want to pay you for your voice. You are worthy of what I charge, 'cause I've been in the business for 15 years. So you're worthy to charge what I charge. And also feeling worthy to make an investment and spend the money, that really is a form of self-sabotage as well, that whole money thing. Right? Oh, I didn't wanna invest. I don't have the money. Right?Well, so many people, I don't have the finances. What can I do to get a professional demo? I don't have the money. Well, okay. Here's what you gotta do. You've gotta strategize. Sit back, take a look at it. Understand that you're gonna have to invest in your coaching, in your demos in your business for you to get something out of your business. You're gonna have to invest. And that is, if you do not admit that or put into action, something that will maybe put savings away. Right? So that you can afford to get a professionally produced demo. Lau: Beautiful. Beautiful. Anne: No, I'm gonna do it myself. And again, that is a form of sabotage. I've just like rambled on. Lau -- Lau: I love it. This is like, listen, honey, this is therapy for both of us because the truth is we practice what we preach and we've experienced everything we talk about. Anne: Yeah. It's true. Lau: I'm not that godlike. I am a human being and I've experienced all of what Anne is talking about here. And that's how we learn. Okay. But if we don't learn, if we don't take the lesson -- as one of my business advisors to me said Lau, if you don't stop your resistance, I can't help you get to that place you wanna go. Anne: Oh yeah. Lau: And that's the humility. I don't know if you call it therapy or just revelation, whatever you call that, of saying, I'm not a god, I'm not a deity. I'm not, not anything other than a person in the world who is learning and working hard and reaching higher levels. But that doesn't mean that I am not resisting getting to the next level of things, whether it's -- oh, let's talk about fear. How about fear? Anne: Oh my God. Fear is so here. Fear of success too. I don't mean to say fear of being rejected. Fear of not being good enough, but fear of success. Lau: Fear, fear of failure. Anne: And fear of failure. All of that is a form of self-sabotage. And gosh, I think you just go on all day, but I know for me, I've always been that person. I'm like, I'm just gonna work, work, work, work. I mean, I've always had that kind of a, a work ethic. You know, if I work hard enough, it will come. And that's just my personality. Lau: Mine too. Anne: But some of that was also self-sabotage. If I didn't, I said, well, I could just do my own website or I can just, then all of a sudden it became like, well, I'm the only one that can do it right. And so again, that was, I want it done this way. And so nobody else will be able to do it, and giving up that control, which was a big self-sabotage for me. Lau: Big. Anne: Huge. Lau: It's a humility factor too because we all have to have a sense of pride and ego in what we do just to pull us through the really tough moments where we feel or perceive we're getting knocked down, or it's not that easy, or we're not making -- we have to have that sense of humility that says that's okay. That's part of your process. You're not gonna be above that. That's something you have to go through and you have to experience. And I get another one for you. How about procrastination? Anne: Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah. Lau: I promise I'll get to it tomorrow. I will. I absolutely will. Yeah. Then I don't. Anne: And that is a form of self-sabotage. I'll tell you what. I am not immune to procrastination myself. Lau: No one is. Anne: In certain parts of my business, yeah, I'll procrastinate. Let's talk about taxes. If you wanna talk about procrastination, right? Lau: Oh yeah. Anne: I know for a fact that I would procrastinate until the very last minute. And then it became like, this stress-induced hell for my business because I, I hadn't experienced it. You know, when you're first running your own business, you have never done your taxes. You've never -- somebody else did that. You know? And so it was like, oh my God, I have a business now. Now what do I need to learn? And it just became overwhelming. So that also, the fact that it was overwhelming, it was scary, the fear, right, of not knowing what to do or how to do it. So then I procrastinated, which then was also sabotaging, right, my success. And then at the end I just was a, a stress ball of anxiety. And yeah. So I would never say to you BOSSes that, oh, I knew it all coming out of the gate. God no. I learn, I'm scared every single day I learn. I try not to sabotage myself by being scared and we fail a little bit. We learn, we try to just get up, move that, bump it up higher. Right? And just keep growing. Lau: Yep. How about this one, Anne? How about sitting with all the stress, the fear, the anxiety, the whatever, and not knowing how or not allowing yourself to release that? So whether that's going into play mode, whether that's actually just getting things done, whether that's getting your latte, whatever that is, establishing daily and weekly what I need to do to be in my mindset of success. And if I don't do it, then I'm sabotaging myself. Anne: Well, yeah. And that sabotage can take many forms, by the way. I'm just gonna say. Physical illness is one of them. If you're gonna sit there as like a stress ball and not relieve it or not try to do something right to rectify that or whatever that is, self-care, meditation, exercise, eating healthy, taking a few hours off, again, that stress can be sabotaging as well. So many things. Lau: It's like endless, right? Like we could go on forever, unfortunately in this category. It's so vast how much we -- and then of course you had mentioned it earlier that imposter syndrome, that feeling, that deep, deep, deep feeling. A lot of women suffer from this just in general of like, I really don't know if I'm worth everything that I'm doing in my life. And you know, Harvard did a lot of studies on that through the years 'cause Joan Rivers, the comedian, was the first one to uncover that publicly and found that ironically the people through the years who have suffered mostly from imposter syndrome being women who are high achievers. Anne: Oh how interesting. Yeah. That would make a whole lot of sense. Yeah. Imposter syndrome. I still get it. Do you know what I mean? I admit it, it still happens once in a while. I find that I try to just work it off. . Work off the imposter syndrome. Lau: Take a run. Anne: And again, if I'm not scared, right, I don't think I'm growing. It's just one of those things. Right? And yeah. Am I good enough? You know, can I do I think a lot of it, it's not so much, am I good enough at this point? But it's a different question I ask, is it okay? Am I ready to make this next move? Like, am I at the point where I should be making this next move? I think I question like, okay, what am I gonna do? How am I gonna grow even bigger? Right? That's my question every day. How do I grow even bigger? Is there a point where I'll be satisfied ever? And I don't think I ever will be. And maybe that's, maybe that's a form of it or not or -- Lau: Isn't that okay though? Like, isn't that a good driving force? Anne: Well, that's what I like to think. Lau: What are -- Anne: -- really goes through. Lau: Yeah. Like what keeps you going? What keeps you waking up every morning and doing what you do. You have to have a sense of that. You have to have some sense of doing that and saying, oh, I need more. I wanna build more. I wanna envision more. I wanna concoct more ideas. I think that, I think there's a fine line between a visionary, a pioneer, and someone who's like insane. Someone who just drives themselves crazy to the point where they break down and they can't function. I think that there's a very fine line that we have to find, you know, between those two and that fear factor, which can get in our way is also a driving factor too in what you're doing in your level of success as well. And how about this one? I got one more for you. Anne: Okay. Lau: How about ignoring, and sometimes intentionally ignoring, your celebrations, like really saying I'm not gonna celebrate anything. it's not necessary. It's not that good. I'm gonna move on to the next thing, and really ignoring your credits, your credentials, your accolades, as they happen? Your people that are -- Anne: That's a great one. Lau: -- being successful? Yeah. And so I'm really guilty of that. I'm like, oh, that's great. I love that. Okay. So what's next? And I'll have people stop me and go, you need to stop doing that because a lot of what you do, Lau, is for that moment and you're just passing it over. Anne: Right, right, right. Don't want to acknowledge -- Lau: -- pass it over. Anne: Right. Lau: And celebrate it, really actively celebrate it. You can't celebrate every single thing 'cause as a success, you've got a lot of things going on. Anne: Sure. Lau: But take a moment every day where you stop and you breathe, you take 10 or 15 minutes. You go -- Anne: I love it. Lau: Oh my gosh. That person that I directly worked with landed this gig. And I am just loving this moment. Anne: So here's my Panda planner. . And my Panda planner is a place, it's this hard copy, is a place where I can write down. I love that. You said that I can write down accomplishments and I got this beautiful one, the BOSS lady right here in my studio. Right? Lau: That's gorgeous actually on -- that looks beautiful. That's from your east coast sister. Anne: Thank you. Thank you, Lau. This beautiful, beautiful piece is from Lau. And I have a journal where I can write down my accomplishments. Because I remember I did a study like way back when I first got into the voiceover industry, and I, well, I was a scrapbooker. Okay. And as a scrapbooker I said, why don't I document my year of VO? And so I had pictures of like meetups I had been to and all of that stuff. And, and I had documented all of the jobs that I auditioned for and then the ones that I had booked, and I made a little scrapbook out of it. But in that scrapbook also was accomplishments. And I wrote the accomplishments down as they happened throughout the year. I realized that once I started writing them down, I was like, wow, I have come so far. And it was a wonderful benchmark, and it was a wonderful, like motivator for me to say, wow, I have really grown. And I have really improved and I'm proud of myself. And it motivated me to want to grow even more. So -- Lau: What a powerhouse, so smart. Anne: -- huge, huge fan of writing, writing down those accomplishments and reading them, writing them down to cement them and then read them. So. I love it. Lau: And how about speaking them? Anne: Yes. Lau: We're always afraid of like boasting and being too full of ourselves and being rude. But to your people that you have real relationships with, they wanna know what are you celebrating. What did you do? You're working so hard. They wanna know what you've accomplished. And to say, you know, three of my people today, and they got awards, and they got national gigs and they -- isn't that cool? I'm so excited for them. There's no shame in that game. I think we need to do that. We need to take the time to do that, to reward them, but also to reward ourselves -- Anne: Yeah. Lau: -- as well. Anne: And we need to acknowledge, I think acknowledge people celebrating their victories because I really believe that we can celebrate each other and really drive inspiration, motivation for all of us to do better. And again, there is a crowd out there that feels that that's not necessarily like awards. I mean, we could have a whole 'nother podcast on awards. Are awards necessary? And you know what? I tend to really love that they can help to validate us from somebody outside of ourselves. Because again, we can sabotage ourselves like the whole imposter syndrome, which is that fear that you're not good enough. It can really inhibit you from doing more from even continuing in the industry. And I feel that awards can be really good if you can look at them in the fact that we're celebrating other people's victories. We can even celebrate our own victories. And it's a way for validation outside of ourselves and outside of our friends, who I know people who will be like, I know, but you're just saying that because we're friends, and you really need that. You need that external validation to make you feel good. Again, like in the corporate world, we just wanna be loved. That's what I tell everybody, I just wanted to be loved when I worked in the corporate world. I wanted to be acknowledged. I wanted to be thanked for the work that I did and told that I did a good job. Lau: Yeah. I think since we're little kids, we want recognition. We want, you know, an award, a sticker, a rank or recognition, a pat on the back. Like as human beings -- Anne: I worked for those stickers in school. You know? Lau: I did too. Anne: Those like stars and the smileys. Lau: Yes. On the head. Remember they used to put it right on your forehead, the little goals? Remember that? Anne: I used to get -- Lau: They used to put it right on your head. Oh, oh my God. Anne: Award papers. I loved it. I loved it. I don't know. They don't do that. Lau: Oh my God. Anne: Is there paper anymore in schools? I don't. Lau: I don't know. I don't know. That's terrifying. I go to Apple. They go, what's paper? I don't know. Go on your -- did we talk about money at all? I honestly can't remember. Did we bring up the money factor? Anne: Well, I think we talked about the worth factor. Like, are you charging what you're worth? Lau: Okay. I got another angle. There's another angle of that. The other angle is, are you spending and investing what you need? Anne: Yes, the investment. Absolutely. Lau: Because I always find if it's not ignorance or just the fact that you're not educated, and that's fine, that's okay. We all have to educate, but once you're educated, and you wanna be cheap and not spend dime on your career and what you're doing, I just think of that as self-sabotage. Because there is no career that I can think of that you're not investing a lot of money in to get the future out of that, to get the return out of that. So. Anne: And that's not just investment in coaching, it's in, in all aspects of your business. And of course I would say yes, investing in your demos and in your coaching, I'm all for that, 'cause I'm coach. Right? And I produce demos, but also investing in those things like me, the queen of outsourcing, like you can really give up that control and don't be afraid to invest. And I, I will say, I said this multiple times, I put money away specifically into my business savings account. I have a business credit card. I have a business banking account, and I have a business savings account. So I was able to put money a little bit away each week or whatever it was, I put money away. And I finally got to the point where I had a substantial amount in savings. And boy did that help me to really grow. The fact that I didn't have the money in savings or I didn't concentrate on putting money in save -- doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be a ton of money. Just put a little bit of money away each day, each week, whatever it is. When you get to that little nest egg, that makes you feel secure and confident, it's gonna be an amazing thing because it's gonna allow you to invest in your business, to help you to grow so that you can spend the time getting those customers, making more money, growing your business. Lau: And a lot of people, Anne, they really don't realize once they do realize if they start to reach a level where they realize, oh wow, I have to spend money on this. And then I have to spend money on that. And they refuse to. They're resistant to do that. Anne: Yes, yes. Lau: That's the sabotage because the truth is -- Anne: I don't have the money or I can do it myself. And -- Lau: That's an investment that they have to have the belief system that that will come back to them. They have to have that leap of faith. That's where a little bit of your magic, your imagination has to be in there. You know what I mean? Like... Anne: Yes, thank you. Lau: I had someone say to me yesterday, like literally Lau, I need to know, I need you to tell me, when will it come back? When will it happen? I said, I can't tell you. I can't tell you when you'll meet the man of your dreams. I can't tell you if your kid is gonna love you or hate you. And I can't tell you if your car is gonna start this morning. Why would I be able to tell you when that's gonna come back to you? You have to take a leap of faith. Anne: Leap of faith. What a wonderful note to kind of end this podcast. Because I think when it comes down to that, like really what else do you have? Right? If you're based on fear and you're not feeling good enough for all of this self-sabotaging, you're not growing your business, take a leap of faith. My mother said to me once -- you know, I remember when I was, I had moved out of the house and was on my own living in a different state. And I was renting my first apartment and all on my own. And I said to my mom, I don't know, I've been working the budget and what if I don't have enough money? Or what if I, I, I don't know if I can do this. And she said, you know, honey, sometimes it all just works out. Just have a little bit of faith. And I took that to heart. It was, she said it so long ago. It was so simple. It's like something that everybody seems to say, have a little bit of faith, but yeah. Guys, BOSSes have a little bit of faith. I think that honestly, when you've lost all your other avenues of being brave, take a leap of faith and it will work out, but take a smart leap of faith, but definitely have to have that leap of faith. Lau: Yeah, yeah. You definitely do. And you have to just know the only thing that's constant is change, and you have to welcome change and like literally money change, but also change in the universe. And if you can welcome both in, you're gonna move that self sabotaging tactic out. You're you're just gonna be by the laws of attraction. You're gonna be much more successful. Anne: How wonderful. Well, thank you, Lau, as always for you had another amazing discussion. Lau: Yay. Anne: BOSSes, you guys, as individuals, you know, sometimes we don't know if we can make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how you can make a difference. Also big shout-out to ipDTL. You too can network and be BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week. We love you, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye! >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

It's the holidays! The time of year when we all get to relax, catch up on our tasks, and spend time with friends and family. But what if you've been so busy working that you didn't even realize it was the holidays? Or what if you're stuck in the booth and can't take a break? If you’re going to take time for the holidays, be sure to book out with agents & clients. This way you don’t have to worry about missing out on new business opportunities. For all the workaholics out there, the holidays can be a peaceful time to catch up on work. And don’t be afraid to take time away! You'll come back from this little vacation refreshed & ready to tackle anything the new year brings. And don't forget that this is a great time for planting seeds for 2023. Send out thank-you cards, small gifts, and mementos to those who have helped make 2022 amazing for you! Still feel like the holidays are a stressful time filled with family obligations, work commitments, and personal commitments that all need to be balanced? Don't worry: we've got some tips for how to BOSS through the season… Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with my very, very special guest, cohost Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey everyone. Hey Anne. Good to see ya. Anne: Here we are for our business superpower series, which is one of my favorite series, The Business Superpowers. And speaking of business superpowers, the holiday season is upon us and there's a lot of things that go on during the holidays. And so I thought it would be a good opportunity to talk about how we can still be the biggest, best BOSSes throughout the holiday season because there are changes that happen. Sometimes things slow down, and we get nervous. Sometimes we have a lot of work and it's tough when you're trying to celebrate the holidays with your family. So let's talk about how we can have BOSSness for the holidays. Lau: I love BOSSness through the holidays, and everyone has their own ebb and flow. Some people, as you said, get super busy. They can't even think straight, and others are dead in the water and they don't know where the work is and everything in between. I do think one of the things you just mentioned, Anne, which is so important, is the celebration factor. So whether it's within the work itself that you're celebrating -- it could be the copy itself is holiday copy. It could be your clients that maybe your handpicking particular clients that you wanna send gifts of gratitude to -- whatever the case may be, you are celebrating. There's a celebratory tone and feel and mood. So you wanna make sure that you balance that to some degree, that you not only have time to celebrate with yourself and your family, but you also celebrate that you have a business, you're running a business. And how do you pay attention to all the many celebrations that are happening around you? Right? Anne: That's an excellent point. I think that it almost comes to like, what's the balance, right? That family, friends, holiday balance with work. If you're crazy busy doing a bunch of work -- now, the one thing that's good about the holidays is I find advertising agencies like to, to get ahead. Right? So, I mean, I'm already like towards the end of the summer starting to record things for the holidays, and so it starts early. Kinda like when they put the Christmas or the holiday, Hanukkah stuff out when it's like August or September in the stores. Lau: Yeah. Retail is like retail two, three seasons ahead. Anne: They are way ahead. So I think that with some planning, right, with strategic planning, BOSSes can really, I think, continue to do wonderful things throughout the holiday season and get the opportunity to spend a good amount of time with their friends and family. I mean, I like to book myself out between, for me, it's Christmas and New Year's. I like, I book myself out and I, I find that to be a relatively safe time for what I end up doing in my genres of work that I typically work in. Usually works well for me. What about you, Lau? Lau: Actually, it's so funny you say that. I don't know if I've ever really formally booked myself out. I feel like I've always, and this is my choice, I have a lot of colleagues that don't do this at all. I'm always kind of available for clients. Partly because, and I'll be honest with you, Anne, I'm like a workaholic. Okay, let me just get that out there right now. So I, I love what I do and I'm sort of addicted to it, and I always do it, you know, so it's like -- Anne: I'm right there with you. Lau: Yeah. I mean arguably so yes, a lot of folks are taking their vacations and booking out and doing all of that, but I always find there's work to do. There's catch-up work, there's my planning for the new year, what I wanna get done in quarter one, quarter two. So always find tons of stuff that I wanna be working on. And I have a different mindset during the holiday season. It actually for me isn't as stressful as when we're outside of holiday season. Because I know everyone's off and running and doing their thing. I get to catch up. So that's really exciting for me. But yeah, to steal some time and make sure that you're relaxing and getting enough rest and taking care of yourself and exercising, you know, all of that is great during the holiday season. Anne: I love that. And I identify, I identify with you, and I don't know if this is something to be proud of, but I mean I am a workaholic and I have been for a long time. And I think one of the reasons why I make it a pact with myself to try and book out as much as possible -- right, it's not that I won't read my email right during those days. However, I try to make sure that I'm not doing any necessary recordings for my clients, but my brain, my brain is never off, right? So there are times though, because I work so hard during the year that when I decide to say I'm off, thankfully I can shut the majority of that off. The good thing about me is that I not only work hard, but I play hard. And so when I decide that I'm going to take that time for reflection and refreshing my energy, I make it work for me because I know that after I take that break, I'm going to be better for it. Lau: Yes, I agree. I think just from the health and wellbeing of your mindset, you do need to have downtime that's scheduled in. Holidays are easy because most people are taking some sort of downtime. So you almost get permission to do it because so many people are doing it as well. I also find too, it's a great time for me to think about how I wanna connect, reconnect, and confirm and thank all the folks that I've worked with throughout the year. So it's a time where I'm sending out maybe gifts or letters or emails or e-cards or whatever it is, saying this has been amazing, love the experience. Let's do this next quarter. So I'm planting seeds. I find I'm planting seeds with people that I've either worked with or haven't worked with of what I'd like to do for next year. And they may not get to it for a month. They may not get to it right away, but it's there. It's like sitting there, it's like a little seed that I know is gonna sprout in a couple months. Anne: Mm-Hmm. For me, yeah, people would always say, well what do you send out gifts? What do you do for your clients over the holidays? And I like to send out e-cards, uh, notes, especially wishing a new year of happiness and prosperity and health and that kind of thing so it doesn't land during the holidays, which I think is a very busy part of the holidays for a lot of my clients. They're probably getting a lot of notes, a lot of gifts. And so I always like to say, well, let me stand out a little bit and I'll send something for the new year. And that way it'll come at a time that maybe they'll be able to spend more time and and see it and not be inundated with other emails, cards, gifts, that sort of thing. So I like the whole celebrate the new year, looking forward to working with you again in the new year, and that sort of a thing. So for me, my attention towards my clients is from a new year perspective and a happy holidays because that would encompass all of the holidays, we hope, that people celebrate 'cause there's just so many of them. Lau: So true. And actually we would think you and I would think 'cause we're from that timeframe where everyone would get gifts, the casting, the agents, whatever -- but you know what I've noticed in the last five or 10 years, Anne, many of them don't get as many as we think. And I know this because they'll write back to me, they'll say, oh my goodness, that was so thoughtful of you. That was incredible. If I send, let's say I send an edible arrangement. And they say, our office is gonna love this, Lau. It's just so thoughtful. You know, we don't see many of these, you know, whatever. Anne: Not like it used to be. Lau: Not like it used to be. No. It's very different now. You know? Anne: And in the corporate world too. I mean it used to be very, very different. And I think the pandemic might have had a lot to do with that as well and the economy. And so I think for me it turned into what can I do that's more meaningful? Right? I think before it used to be like, let's send a gift, let's send this and then what would you send? And is it a personal gift? Does it showcase thought or is it just -- for me, I really try to think about the relationship that I have with my clients and make it something special, something personal. And again, it doesn't have to cost a lot of money. I think that even just a personalized note, or a lot of times I'm a decent baker. Lau: Ooh. Anne: I can bake. I know everybody knows Jerry can cook, but I can bake. And I did when we were first dating, by the way, I did bake him something to impress him, and little did I know at that time he was like a gourmet chef. But I was like, here, I need you a carrot cake muffin for Valentine's Day. I mean carrot cake muffins in a basket. And, and I was like, ooh. I think 'cause it's a really great recipe. And little did I know that he's like a gourmet chef, but I'm like, here have a muffin that I baked. Lau: Oh my God. So you are actually like Kristin Wiig in Bridesmaids, remember that? Where she baked her boyfriend that carrot cake, and it was in the shape of a carrot and then the raccoon ate it? Remember that? Anne: I did, I, I baked a carrot cake. Lau: I was gonna ask you what your favorite gifts are. Like what's your favorite gift that you've either received or that you've sent out? Any come to mind? Anne: So for me it's handmade. It's gotta be handmade because so much of my life with my husband is revolved around his gourmet foodiness. There's lots of things, like every year we give out handmade this or that. And like last year it was handmade salad dressing. And that's really cool. I mean, I buy the bottle, I designed the label. My husband, we make Sicilian lemon olive of oil and that kind of thing, dressing. And we give that out. And that's something that I don't hesitate sending to my clients and that it's handmade, because if they know me at all, which I try to make sure that they do, they know that I come from that background, and that my husband is pretty much a, a gourmet anything. So I find that that makes a really nice gift. And it's something that is not gonna cost a ton for me. And I do, I have to say, I do love Amazon gift certificates. Lau: Oh, totally. Anne: Because yeah, that just takes care of everything for let's say, I have a lot of people that I hire, my assistants, and I feel like I wanna give them something as a gift and not something that's just, of course money is always appreciated, right, a bonus, that kind of thing? So I do that. Or if they do something that's special, and this is at any time, I might give them a gift certificate to Amazon. Lau: That's a good thing. Anne: That really tends to be my favorite thing or anything that's special. So for example, another one of my clients who I share love of animals, you know, my cats or my dogs -- it will be a gift for their cat and it's so funny -- or a gift for their dog because they almost appreciate it more, right, because it shows like a deeper connection. Lau: Yes. Anne: If I get a gift for their dog. Like wouldn't it be cute to get matching sweaters, like, oh, dog sweater and sweater? But again, it has to be specific to the client. What about you? I'm excited to hear your, your favorites. Lau: Yeah. Well, I mean there's standard stuff that whether you know this or not know this -- I mean, most people would know about Edible Arrangements. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: I really like Sherry's Berries too. So if you don't know about Sherry's Berries, that's really fun. Like hand dipped berries and fruit. That's awesome stuff. Anne: Yep. Lau: But we've done some interesting things in the past. I mean, my daughter is a visual artist, so she could draw like nobody's business. Anne: Oh, that's nice. Lau: Through the years, there were times -- I didn't wanna impose on her because it can take time to create art -- but there were times where we would have a, a special relationship with a casting or an agent, what have you, she would either draw them or she would draw something in the industry and send it to them. And that was like an incredible gift. Anne: Sure. Lau: You can also do promotional items that represent you or your company. And then give it a little personal twist. Like for instance, you know, we have some books that we published and then we'll, you know, add some photos to it or sign them or what have you. So you've got your promotional in there, and then you've got the personalized twist, and you've got a little note in there, a little gift card in there, a little something in there. Those have been some of my favorites. Another regular thing that I used to do with in studio events, when I hold events, I would do gifts, like literal gifts, not as much for the men. If I did anything for the men, it would be a gift card. But for women, I would literally get them jewelry. And I almost never went wrong with jewelry. Almost never. They loved it. And you don't have to spend a lot of money on it either. Like you can get beautiful jewelry, and sometimes they would be thoughtful for what that person is. Like for instance, if I knew their birthdate or if I knew something about what they were celebrating, I would take the color of the stone or I would take their name or something like that and I would put it right into the jewelry. Right into the gift. They love that. They love that stuff. Anne: Personalization. Lau: Yeah, personalization. Anne: Absolutely. And I was actually noticing your earrings earlier, and I was like, I really like those earrings . See, you can't go wrong with jewelry, I don't think for a lot of women, but that's me, of course. But yeah, I think that however you can personalize, it really makes just like any gift that you give to someone, right? However you can personalize it makes it really nice. And I also think in terms of promotional gifts, I try not to do just a promotional gift. You know what I mean? Even if I'm sending a card. Lau: Oh yeah. Anne: It's not gonna be like -- I'll say, I'm grateful, thank you so much. I loved working with you this year. But it's not gonna be all about like a big branded gift. It's really just gonna be thanks so much. And even if I got them a present for their dog, I'm not gonna brand it. Lau: Right. Anne: Because I think that it's similar to like the VO BOSS podcast where I'm always telling people, it doesn't have to be -- like, for me it is about voiceover. But my primary purpose with this podcast was to, I wanted to educate. I wanted to give back, right? And if people get value from it, then it's a gift, right? It's a gift that I wanna give from me to the community. And I feel like that's the way it should be for your gifts, really. And that's why it doesn't have to be like, oh, it's all about my voiceover business, when you're trying to connect with a client and give them a gift for the holidays. It really, I know just the simple fact that you're showing a personalized, something that's deeper than just a, oh, here, I did this job for you and you paid me for it -- I think if you show thoughtfulness behind that, you do not have to brand that thoughtfulness. Lau: Not at all. Anne: In order to be effective at all. Lau: No, because remember, you're a person first. You're a human being first. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: And it doesn't always have to be around the business. Anne: And I think it's more memorable, to be honest with you. Right? It's gonna be more memorable if I get somebody a present for their cat than a branded pen. And I could throw that branded pen with the the cat gift as well. Lau: That would be funny. Anne: It wouldn't be be all about the branded gift, because I know before it used to be like, oh, what should I get? I'm gonna brand it with my logo. I don't think it's about that anymore. I mean, it used to be a thing where people, that's what they did. But I think these days, it's gotta be more meaningful. And I kinda like that trend. I really like that trend. I think the last few years that have been a little tough on us as a society, I'm hoping that things get back to more meaningful, simpler, thoughtful gifts for celebrating. Lau: Yeah. I think the days of extreme swag are kind of gone where you gotta have a t-shirt, you gotta have a pen, you gotta have a -- Anne: Right. Lau: I think that's passé now. But you know, I have to tell you one time -- Anne: I do like a pen. I do like a good pen though. Lau: I like a good pen and I like a good pencil. I actually have a bunch of branded pencils, but I have a talent who's in MCVO and he's a working guy and he's wonderful. One year around Christmas time, he sent me his cup, his travel cup. And it had his business on it. Right? So it was clearly promotional. Right? But the thing when I, I looked at it, and it was so heavy and so well made and so intense, like the metal was so thick. Yes. And it came from one of the nicer stores in New York City. Right? I was like so impressed by that, that he would send that to me. I'm sure he is sending out a bunch of those to other people as well. I was like, my God, he probably spent 25, $30 on this cup. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So I'm not telling people to do that. You don't need to do that. I'm just saying, it took me aback that he valued our relationship so much. Anne: Right, to give you one of those. Yes. Lau: And at that time, I hadn't even booked him. I hadn't booked him on anything. It was just he was valuing and faithful about, you know, what was to come and excited about the future and this and that, and I thought gee, that was a lot to invest in a gift for someone, you know, who's new. I never forgot it. . Anne: I'm a big proponent about swag in not making it cheap swag. I think that no swag is better than cheap swag that is not useful. And so for me, like I say, I like a good pen right. Now, recently I had, and I don't have one in here to showcase, but I recently got, you know, the multicolor pens that have the green, the blue, the black -- Lau: Oh yeah, I love those. Anne: -- and the red? Okay. Yeah. So I just got pens, multicolor pens with Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions on it. So I send it to everybody that orders from me, that orders like my vocal spray. And I'll take it to every conference. And more than likely when I send out gifts, they're gonna get a pen just because they're fun. I mean, who doesn't love writing with different colors? Lau: Right, I'm with you. Anne: That kind of thing. But I think if you make a substantial investment, and I'm a big one about cups too, right? This was actually, so this Miir cup, when my husband went to a conference, he got one that was white and it was from one of the companies, and it was made from Miir. And we love that cup so much that I went and bought another one because it was such a good quality cup, like you said. So I feel like if you're going to create swag, make sure it's a good quality swag. And I always like to really think about, is it going to be useful? Lau: Yes. Anne: Not just trendy, but is it going to be useful for the person that you're going to give it to? Otherwise, I don't know if it's worth the investment. Lau: That's exactly it, Anne, and I actually thought I thought of one more that I used to love and give out. I don't know where they are these days, but I'm sure you can find them. I love these. They were the pens, thick pens that light up. And I love them because I was a director for many years. And so I would be in a dark room, a dark theater or a dark studio, and I just love the fact that I could write and light it up. Anne: Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Lau: Oh my goodness. That was like, I gave that out for years. I gave those pens out for years. So things that are utilitarian and very useful I think are so important if you can find them. Anne: So yeah, I think BOSSes, when it comes to gift giving and the holidays, I think the more thoughtful, right, the more personal, the better. Obviously you don't have to spend a ton of money, but if you're gonna make it swag, I say make an investment into decent swag. And then also let's talk about, are you busy? Are you not busy during the holidays? Should BOSSes worry if they're not busy during the holidays, Lau? Lau: No. No, not at all. I would never worry about that. I always say, you know, if you work in advertising agencies, if you work with talent agencies, if you work in casting, you would know this, that there are really down times. There are dead times, there are down times. You know, it's like a ghost town. And you have to just accept that. That's true in every single business, in every industry. You're just not gonna be making money every day. You're not gonna be making profit every day. You're not gonna be booking in closing every day. You just have to accept that. That was hard on me, you and I as addicted people to our work, it was really hard to be like, is something wrong? I went four days and I haven't booked anything. Oh yeah, because there's an ebb and flow. And each quarter is different and every year is different. So you just have to pay attention to that. Anne: That little piece of valuable, like that was just so valuable, Lau, that you said that as well. I say that a lot to my students and just, there is an ebb and flow. And as freelancers, this is something that is probably one of the hardest things to get used to when you come from, let's say, a corporate background and you're used to getting that paycheck on a consistent basis. Now all of a sudden there could be days that go by when you don't have a job. And it's okay, even for the veterans in this industry, right? Even for those people that are posting on social media where they booked 20 jobs this week, I want you guys to know that it's , it's an ebb and a flow. And so the times that you might see somebody post that they got a ton of jobs that week, well, maybe the following week, they aren't getting as many jobs. I don't know one person, unless you're on a roster or you're on a consistent basis or contract with someone that gets work every single day, it's very tough being that consistent, unless maybe you're doing promos and you know, you're under contract for doing -- you're on a roster, you're doing these specific jobs on a daily basis, but getting new jobs every single day, mm, I don't know anybody. . Lau: No, it's not a realistic. No, no, no. Anne: It's not realistic. Lau: You just have to pay attention to your, your stats. You just have to pay attention to those long ways. I mean, that's not to say you may not be working every day. Anne: Exactly. Lau: You may be working with clients every day catching up, do this, adding on, upselling, whatever you're doing. But when you're talking about closing or booking -- Anne: Yeah, right, booking, that's a different job every single -- Yeah. Yeah. That's just, yeah. And during the holidays is no exception really I would say a lot of times. I think it becomes even more unpredictable during the holidays, unless you're very used to doing particular jobs for the holidays and then in between the holidays. So yeah. BOSSes, it's okay. I think that we should all take the time to enjoy your holidays with your families and friends. On that downtime, if you want to work, well, maybe just take some time to reflect on what are the great new things that are gonna happen in the new year? How -- strategize what you're going to be doing in the new year, and take that time to re-energize. Lau: Mm. Absolutely. If you can, re-energize, rejuvenate, and re-envision everything that you're doing and just enjoy, like enjoy that time of year. Enjoy the weather, enjoy the family, enjoy, and inspire your business in a new way as you go into the new year. Inspire yourself. Anne: Love that. Love that. So yeah, BOSSes, happy holidays, BOSSes. Go and refresh and get inspired, and hope you have the most wonderful holiday season, from the BOSSes to the BOSSes. Great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipDTL.com. And also 100voiceswhocare.org, you can use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. So find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. You guys, have a great week and we'll see you next year. Bye! Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

In this extended episode, Anne chats with Landon Beach, the author of Narrator, and Scott Brick, the narrator of the novel, to find out what makes a great narrator-author relationship. If you're a writer, you know your characters, you understand their motivations and their goals. Creating a standout audiobook means trusting an actor to take the story to new heights. That's why we love audiobook narrators! They bring our characters to life with their voices, and they do it so well that we feel like we're coming along for the ride. Landon spent months learning everything he could about Sean Frost, the protagonist in "Narrator" He researched Sean's hobbies, his interests, his personality—even his favorite color! Many details of Sean that didn't make it into the novel became essential for developing his character in Scott's voice. We discuss how Landon's deep research into the character of Sean Frost led him to fully embody the role, and how Scott's experience as a voice actor informed his understanding of the subtleties that make this story great. We also talk about how you might be able to use your skills, interests, and background to add new textures & experience to your work as a voice actor. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. And today I am so excited to have two very special guests on the show. Welcome Landon Beach, author of the psychological thriller Narrator, which is available now wherever fine books are sold. Landon previously served as a naval officer and was an educator for 15 years before becoming a full-time writer with six titles, the latest being Narrator. Welcome Landon. Landon: Hey, Anne, thanks for having me on. Anne: We also have the actual narrator of the book Narrator and award-winning narrator who has more than 800 books to his name -- maybe there's more by now -- 600 Earphone Awards, a Voice Arts Legacy Award, a Grammy nomination. Welcome Scott Brick to the show. Scott: Hey, hey. It's so good to see you all. Anne: I know! You guys, thank you so much for joining me. I'm so excited to talk to you today about this book, which is amazing, BOSSes. So if you don't mind, I'd like to start with just a little bit of a preview, if you don't mind. I'm gonna play this and hopefully you guys will be able to hear it. Here we go. >> Why do authors have to kill off characters we love? I, Sean Frost, sit in my darkened recording booth and stare at the final paragraph of the novel I am narrating. Almost there. Finish it. Finish it right, finish it with a flourish. But I can't, not right now for I am crying. The main character, Nehemiah Stone, died two pages ago in a self-sacrifice that I had not seen coming. The book, The Paris Sanction, is author M. Scott Sal's fourth Nehemiah Stone thriller, which I have waited patiently for two years for the chance to narrate. Five years ago, Simon and Schuster thought I was the perfect narrator for the job when they contacted my agent, David Killian, whom I affectionately refer to as Killy. Anne: . I would love to play all of that, but I'm gonna leave the BOSSes in suspense . Wow. So you guys, for me, I mean, having read the book and listened to the audio book as well, it's amazing. And so I'd love to talk to you about the process. So let's start with you, Landon, after being an educator -- thank you very much for your service, thank you -- what was your thought process in becoming a writer? Landon: Well, I've always written ever since I was young, and I had a wonderful English teacher in high school who really encouraged me. And then it kind of went away for a while. As you said, I went off and served, but I don't think I ever lost the passion for reading or the itch. And so fast forward many years later, and Scott and I started working together and developed a friendship. And I had an idea that I had been tossing around in my mind for 20 years because I've always loved the entertainment industry. I love to watch movies and study film. And finally it came to me one day after Scott and I had finished I think three books together. I thought, I think I have a way to tell an entertainment comeback story that has never been done before with an audiobook narrator as the main character set within the framework of a psychological thriller. So that's where the idea came together. It wasn't until I started working with Scott and got to know a little bit about the audiobook world before I saw the opportunity that was in front of me. And then I shoved all other books to the side and just immersed myself in that world. And here we are today, . Anne: So I guess I should ask you then, how did you find Scott? So then Scott kind of contributed to the idea of the book for Narrator after you'd worked with him? Landon: He did not contribute to the idea at all. I shocked the heck out of him when I presented it to him. Anne: Oh, awesome! Landon: Yes. Now after that, yes, he was very helpful and had so much, you know, generous feedback. And the book, whatever success it may have, is in large part, of course, not only to his narration, but just his extreme kindness and professionalism, talking about the industry and seeing what worked and what wouldn't work in the book. And if we were gonna break some rules, to knowingly break them, so that it would be authentic and that the research would be impeccable. So that not only the common fan for 99% of them would not know where we're bending the rules or not. But it was important to us for maybe the 1%, the people that are in the industry that Scott and I both love, would appreciate the nods and winks and the Easter eggs. Anne: Oh, yeah. Landon: And just the fun of it that it hadn't been done before. So in terms of how I found Scott, I had placed in a few writing competitions for my first two novels, and I had written a third novel, and I was discussing with my wife how we might expand the business. And audiobooks were exploding back then and continue to explode now. But this is around 2019. And to make a long story short, I had been a fan of Scott's for years. Didn't know him at all. But I thought, well, if there's one person that I would love to narrate all of my books from now until eternity, it would be Scott. And I saw that he was an entrepreneur, and his ahead of the game, was already working with some indie authors at that point. And so I contacted his amazing production manager, Gina Smith, and reached out and asked if, you know, he'd be interested. And through a process that we went through, we ended up doing a three-book deal. And then it led to later books. So that's sort of how we got together on this. Anne: Well, I love the fact that you've continued to have Scott in your books. And so Scott, I imagine you had some collaboration after the surprise of finding out that he wrote a book about an audio book narrator. Talk about the process of collaboration with Landon. Scott: I will. I'll be happy to. But Landon, I just want you to know, thank you for the kind words, but you've only got 45, 50 minutes. I'll give you 50 more minutes to say good things about me. . It's very kind. Thank you. This was a marvelous surprise. Landon I got to know one another through letters, through emails, cards that we would exchange, and found out that we're both huge fans of Old Hollywood. I probably can't tell that I love old Hollywood, 'cause the books behind me. And at one point, I guess when he had this idea, he asked if he could maybe get some feedback. You know, essentially it was like an interview. He wanted to interview me about how audiobooks are made. And I remember him saying that he had this idea and very broad terms. Now, I wasn't really privy to what was going on in the story. I just told him about the process. And about six months later, he goes, oh, by the way, here you go. And I went, holy shit. Okay. Well, I guess he did. People say they're gonna do things all the time; it doesn't always happen. And then he asked me to read it ahead of time and just give him feedback. I mean, he was talking about like the rules that we break. You know, there's one thing about the audio book industry. It's very gender and ethnicity centric, right? If a black man writes a book, they're gonna hire a black man to narrate it. Same thing. People ask me why I work so much. I'm like, well, there's a lot of old white guys writing books. Right? And in the book at the very beginning is the Audie Awards. And Billy D. Williams has his memoir come out, and there's a woman who is nominated for best narrator of the year for having done that book. And I was like, hey, Landon, I'm sorry to tell you. But you know, they would hire a guy to do that. And , I just love the fact that the way that he addressed it was just talking about the elephant in the room. He said, you know, at one point Billy D. Williams says, you tell me that woman can't read my book? Are you kidding me? You know, and again, it just, address the issue and then move on. The collaboration, for lack of a better word, I was just primarily giving feedback like that as well. It's just that first interview. I remember days before the book was coming out, he emailed real quick and said, is it appropriate to say, I hit the record button? Is there an actual button that you hit in the studio? And I said, Well, no, not really. I mean, I'm not using hardware, I'm using software. So I have a shortcut. I hit the number 3 button on my keyboard. And he goes, But do you use that terminology? "I hit the record button." I said, No, I typically say I hit record. Okay, great. And that's what came about. And you know, they're small things, but Dan Musselman, who's one of my favorite people of all time, he gave me my career, basically. And he always said, you know, most books are a 100,000 words long. You could get 99,999 of them right. But if you pronounce one of them wrong, it will ruin the experience for the listener. And this is a similar thing, if you get the terminology wrong, it would take some of us right out of the experience. Anne: Absolutely. Well, absolutely. And I was just mentioning before when I was speaking in to Landon, how at home I felt with everything, everything was like, it was familiar to me. It was at home. Like, you grabbed a cup of tea for your throat, and you're at the award ceremony, and all of it just was so comfortable and just so wonderful and amazing. And I can't say enough good words about it, but I imagine that this was a little more collaborative than most audio books. Like Scott, talk a little bit about the process when you're hired to narrate an audio book, and how much interaction are you having with the author, or what does that look like? Scott: You know, it all depends on whether you're working directly with the author or through a publisher. Um, publishers really like to curate the relationship, for lack of a better word. They like to limit the amount that you really get to interact with the author. Then again, I have authors I've worked with for 20 years, and it's like, there's no way we're not gonna talk about it. You know, I'm like, okay, he's coming over to my house for a dinner. Am I not supposed to talk to him about his book? And if it's a Dune book, I've done all of those, I think 25 of them now. I call the author , and we go over all the pronunciations for the made up names, phrases, and whatnot. That's typically what will happen. I'll reach out to, you know, Nelson Demille. He puts in real people's names in the books that he writes. Because they've made charitable donations. Well, I wanna make sure that I'm, is it Carns or is it Kerns? They deserve to have their name said right. That's typically the way it works with an author. But when you work directly with an author like I've been blessed to do with Landon, he'll tell me, this thriller was inspired by this movie. He even sent me a copy of it on DVD. I'm blanking on it now. The Gene Hackman film. Why am I blanking? Landon: Night Moves. Scott: That's it. Exactly. So I watched that the night before, and it just helps get you into the mood. If anything else, the relationship that I've had, this working relationship with Landon, which is thankfully for me, become a true friendship, has informed my work on his books. It's nice to know when he sends me an email saying, you know, I got this character. I was inspired by this film, by this actress, by this actor -- it's really nice to know that kind of thing. Nobody listening will realize, oh yeah, that was Gene Hackman who inspired that character. Anne: Sure, sure. Scott: And yet, I know, and it makes it different for me and hopefully more layered and textured for the listener. Anne: So I guess my question would be is when you take on a character, right, you fully envelop that character. How do you prepare for that? And also, I'd like like to ask Landon, was it a surprise when Scott interpreted the character in the way that he did? Landon: So for this one, Anne, you read it ahead of time, Anne, which was wonderful of you to do that, because I wrote this in first person present tense. I felt that I had to know Sean Frost better than any character that I've ever written before. And I am not exaggerating here. I spent months working on Sean. I have 60 or so handwritten, two-sided loose leaf pieces of paper with notes about Sean Frost, his backstory, where he was raised, the toys that he played with when he was young. You know, millions of things that will never get into the book. And a lot of that was inspired by a book that had come out just recently, Character by Robert McKee. And it can be really intimidating to go through his books, but they're so worth it because the journey he takes you through in the -- he asks the hard questions. And so I told Scott this beforehand, I said, my biggest fear when the book was to come out was that someone would get to a place -- like you said, you know, if you get one word wrong, like he's talking about with Dan, is that someone would say, Sean Frost would never say that. Or Sean Frost would never do that. And that's scary and intimidating because you don't want something to take the reader or listener out of the experience. And so I felt comfortable after putting all that work in that I knew who he was, at least to start writing about him. And to add into the research before I say about, you know, Scott's interpretation of Sean, one thing that our relationship has developed far enough along where we're comfortable sending each other things and suggestions. And so this has a lot of pop cultural references, but it also has, I always have a soundtrack for all of my books, and it's, you know, songs that inspired me while I was writing. And if someone listened to all of those that say, how in the heck did you get Narrator out of all of those or the nonfiction books that I read? But there's something about it that I know as Scott, as a performer, as an actor, they're hungry for information. And let me see what I can do with this. And it's always on, you know, I always kinda say a volunteer basis -- he could use nothing that I give him, and we'd be completely fine. But because we're friends and we've had exchange of ideas, and in a lot of points in Narrator that made it better, it was the, let's let the best idea win here, no matter who came up with it. And so I was happy to, to go along with that. But I sent him an email for Narrator that was just massive, but it had every single pop cultural reference in Narrator. And there are points where, as you know, Sean acts them out in his mind and he's thinking about them. And so I thought, well, what if I sent those to Scott ahead of time? And so when he got to that part of the book, he could, he could look at that and work into the scene. And like, like he said, no one else would know that he watched Michael Douglas yelling to Sean Penn in The Game before he actually acted that out. But it keeps things fresh and, you know, energetic. And so that's what I would say about his performance is that, oh my gosh. I mean, just delighted. And I don't know a ton about the industry, but the respect that I gained in the year to year and a half of research before I approached him, I'm surprised I kept it a secret that long, but I was so intimidated before going because I wanted to make sure that I had done my job. But what I did realize is that there are interpretations and decisions -- he's making creative choices of taking that character on sometimes in every line or every word with what you're gonna stress and whatnot that I never noticed before. I always say that Scott and other wonderful performers, they make it seem easy where, oh, I'm just listening to this great audio book. I'm completely in there. But the decisions that you have to make to have that come alive. So yeah, absolutely. To see that hard work pay off, and to see the directions that Scott took it as an artist and creator in his own right, I couldn't be happier. . Anne: That's awesome. So Scott, tell us a little bit about the process, about how you got yourself into character. Scott: So funny, because in acting circles, you're either method or you're not, right? Maybe you're more of a technique actor. God, what's that grape line by Spencer Tracy? He's, you know, his approach to acting was memorize his lines. Don't bump into the furniture. I'm not a method actor, and yet I really like to prepare my mood. We have to prepare the text, make sure everything is pronounced correctly. I have a researcher who handles that for me, but I want to make sure that my head is in the right space. So, yeah. I will watch Night Moves, the Gene Hackman film. Before Narrator, I watched Misery because they're similarities, you know? Somebody who's being held against their will and forced to create basically. What I find really interesting is, I'm going through all the pop culture references that Landon sends me, is sometimes I find some that really work elsewhere. For instance, he was talking about this, and as you heard in the preview, this character, Nehemiah Stone. Well, that's a character who was very much, I think in the same vein as Jack Reacher. And I'm all also blessed to work on that series. I got 'em all right up there, just right behind me. And Landon emailed me and said, you know, while writing this part of the book, I was listening to the theme from The Incredible Hulk in the 1970s, The Lonely Man that marvelous piano music at the end. It's heartbreaking. That actually used to be my ring tone on my phone, but it was so silent that I couldn't hear my phone ring. So I had . But now a month or two after I did Narrator, I did the most recent Jack Reacher novel, which was called No Plan B. And I watched that video. I listened to that music every day before getting started. And nobody who's listening to either Narrator or a Jack Reacher novel is gonna go, wow. Sounds like he was listening to this, to the Incredible Hulk theme. But audiobooks is a type of storytelling where subtlety plays, and if it affects my performance just in a little way, then wonderful. Anne: Yeah. And I felt that absolutely while listening to it, so many subtle, tiny things. I felt close from the beginning, really to the character, which I thought was just phenomenal. So I imagine that because you guys had so much correspondence back and forth, Scott, this is different for you in other books, sometimes. You don't have as much collaboration with the author, right? And so then what other things do you have to do to prepare? As you mentioned, some of your publishers don't necessarily want you to collaborate so much. So what do you do to prepare for those characters and for those books? Scott: I have a real keen sense for genre. Look, I love certain genres that I work in simply because I'm a book fan. That's the reason I got into this industry. I'll give you an example. We just, I was working with Penguin Random House and the estate of Raymond Chandler, and his family wanted the whole Philip Marlow Omnibus rerecorded. And they wanted to add music. And so they were looking for a new voice for Philip Marlow. And they hired me. Now, sadly, Chandler passed away, and I want to say it was the late 50s, early 60s. There was no way I was gonna be able to have any interaction with him other than reading books that he wrote about writing. So what I did is, every single night -- there were eight books, seven novels, and one book of short stories. We recorded them over the course of a year, and every single night, the night before I would record, I would watch, maybe it was The Big Sleep, an actual Philip Marlow story. Maybe it was Double Indemnity. But I was watching film noir constantly, just to put myself in that mood, in that mindset, that hard boiled detective meeting the, you know, the femme fatale. Sometimes that's all you got. I've done that while doing the horror novels. I've watched Shining the night before, or The Ring. Yeah. I've done the same thing when I was recording Somewhere in Time. I watched time travel romances just to put myself in the right mood. Landon: Anne, if I could add something about the character and what Scott was able to bring to the table, I was asked in a recent interview, how did you pick Scott to do this? And, and I said that even if I would've had five different narrators before writing Narrator, I said, of course I would've gone after Scott because I knew it was first person present tense. But also it's so much in the mind of Sean Frost. And when I listened to Scott's work where he does first person -- one, if you identify with that character, at some point you're listening and you think, I'm that character. I'm going through this. Which is a wonder of fiction. But also two, you become immediately immersed in the narrative and the novel. Anne: Oh yeah. Landon: And Scott is great at that. It's kind of what they said about Tom Hanks when they picked him for Robert Langdon, is that they thought that without speaking, he is a fantastic actor of someone who's thinking, and less is more. And I like to think of Scott in those terms of when someone is speaking inside of their head and that internal monologue was a natural choice. And the caveat that we joke about is that, you know, Scott is not Sean Frost , but I thought he was perfectly suited to play that role. Like, and some people have asked me, they're like, they're like, Scott is Sean. I'm like, no, he's not. Anne: I was gonna say, can you identify -- Landon: But he was perfect for it because he's a conglomeration of all the narrators that I researched. All their methods and stuff are kind of melded into this one character. So yes, there is some of Scott that is in there, definitely. But some of the routines that Sean have are completely different than what Scott does. . Anne: Well, that's kind of good in a way. . Scott: All of my colleagues, all the narrators who've gotten back to me and said, I love this book. They don't ask about like abuse issues. They don't -- but anything like that, what they wanna know is, do you really make as much money as Sean Frost does? And I of course say, yes, I do, even though I don't . Anne: Landon, I wanted to say like the first person writing a novel in the first person I thought was really for this novel, I just thought it was really wonderful. Again, like you said, you picked Scott because you thought for him to do it in the character in first person was just, I think a phenomenal choice. Landon: Oh, thank you, Anne. That means a lot. Anne: But is that a choice as an author? Like, okay, when you sit down, you've got an idea to start writing. Like what makes you decide whether it's first person or how you're going to present that? Landon: Well, for this particular case, this is the first time that I've ever written first person. Scott knows from my other books, they've been the third person closed, third person omniscient. But coming up in getting ready to write this book, it really, a lot of it had to do with the fact that I'm trying to dramatize and make a psychological thriller about someone who stays in a really confined space, in a booth. And I empathize with that in terms of an author. I mean, I'm in my office right now, Anne, for 12 hours a day. It's really, really boring and lonely and hard work. And that's why I look forward to these calls, one, to see my buddy here because, you know, we need this as, as creators to touch base with each other every once in a while. And I always leave energized and enthused. But I thought it's gotta be a psychological thriller that's the route to go with making this so that there, I can bring in suspense and reliable narration, unreliable narration. And it opens up a different menu of things to play with the audience's mind and wonder what's real and get as many reversals, authentic reversals, not just cursory ones as we can throughout the entire book to keep people on, on the edge of their seats. So I thought for this one, I had to go all in on this one character. And I say this a bit tongue in cheek, but not, I miss him. I, I, I'm miss writing Sean. I really do. For that one intense period, and I think Scott would agree that when we got to the actual recording, I mean, it was like we were living in the same house next door to each other, and then it breaks away, and you go months without talking to someone. But that was so intense and we had to collaborate and work on a few issues that it was, I don't know, it's, it's like nothing I've never experienced before. Scott: Also, just from my perspective, what it allowed me to do was -- I don't wanna use the word improvisation, because this is a book. It's written, it is scripted. And yet there are those moments where you can improvise in terms of your performance. Not change the words, but like, he asked me about my own particular method of recording it. And for many years I've used a tally clicker. And I can demonstrate to you, you know, it's one of those things that click when you're going in and out of a venue, you see the guy who's counting heads. You know, how many people do we have inside now? Okay. It's technically called it tally clicker. But when I just use the words tally clicker, people always say to me, what? And I'm like, well, so I have to explain. Anne: Got one right here. Scott: Anything that makes the noise. Landon: There it is. There it is. Scott: Anything that will spike the wave form the waveform. Okay, well it's one thing to hear about it and then it's another thing to actually hear it. So I reached out to Landon, and I was like, how about -- 'cause this happens at the very beginning as I'm talking about the tally clicker -- how about I leave one of them in? And I had to call my, my edit my post house to say, I want all of them taken out except that one because it's the one that illustrates. As I'm talking about the tally clicker, I just went up to the microphone and just hit it four or five times. Oh, okay. Great. It'll help the listener. There was four or five things like that that, and I would always email Landon and say, is it okay if I put this in? At one point, I'm literally dabbing my lip balm on. He talks, you know, Sean, he's swishing his mouth with water. I left it in , you -- why not? Anne: I was at home, I'm telling you. Landon: It was so perfect. It was like special effects for a few parts. But it was those kinda layers that I think made this special in my opinion. Especially the time that he goes through Sean's routine, 'cause he goes through it a few times. But Scott picked the perfect moment because it's right at the climax, and here he is, you know, triumphant from let's just say some obstacles that he's had to climb over. And he's like, I dab this and you can hear it. And then I take a swig of water, and you can hear it. And I'm like, that is so perfect. I never even would've thought of that. Anne: I am in the booth. I am in the booth. Landon: I was there. Right there. Scott: The shape of your lips, it changes the sound coming out of it. And I was like, darn right. You know, and people were asking, my buddies were asking me, were you just like dabbing it with your finger? Hell no, I'm using -- Anne: Oh my gosh. Landon: Michelle Cobb was texting Scott back and forth and who is emailing me. And she was talking about it on the podcast, and she's just, you know, having a blast with the whole concept of Sean Frost. She's like, Scott, he's in a tuxedo. But I said, you know, the character that he was narrating in this book listened to me was -- and so I said, well, let's let Sean as a professional get into a little bit of method and do that. And so, yeah, I'm glad that some people like those moments and found them -- Anne: Loved them. Landon: -- entertaining and humorous. Anne: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Landon: It was fun. Anne: Absolutely. So is there a movie in the future? I don't know, I just Landon: I tell you what, I, I would absolutely love to see this made, and I was a screen writer before I was a novelist, and that's where my degree is in, my master's is in screenwriting. And so a lot of this, when I got to the end of it, I said, gosh, I can just, I can see it. So fingers crossed. Hey, anybody listening to this podcast, please reach out to Scott and myself . Anne: Yeah. Fantastic. So I asked that, but what's in the future for you next, Landon? Another book? What's happening? Landon: Yep. So I'm in the final editing stages of a murder mystery, and that's going to come out a month from now, right around Christmas. And I just found this out the other day that the first book in the series, Huron Breeze for thebestthrillerbooks.com won mystery of the year for 2022. Anne: Congrats. Landon: So I'm just excited, humbled, surprised, but it's gonna be neat to release a sequel when all of that gets shared. And so what Scott and I have talked about is that at some point, we'll do our pre-recording conference for Huron Nights, because we're gonna take the main character into a complicated place, because it's part of a trilogy. So usually this is kind of the Empire Strikes Back episode of a trilogy where everything goes to hell, and then they've gotta come back in the third one. So I look forward to that, and I have some, some interesting ideas of some things that might inspire him as he gets ready for his performance. And then I'm collaborating too with Susanne Elise Freeman on a novella, which is gonna take place in between books two and three, and it's going to be an assassination, spy, espionage short. And so we've already talked over Zoom, and I'm thrilled to be working with her. She's gonna of course play the main character in this one. And then we'll wrap up this trilogy with Huron Sunrise. And then finally I'm gonna get to the end of the Great Lake Saga, which is book five in that saga. I have a book on every Great Lake, and so I have four of them, but the last one has taken a backseat just because once Narrator got into my mind, I mean, the seas parted and it was all I had to get that out. And then of course the mystery, that's kind of taken on its own life. It was only planned as a standalone, but so many fans liked it and wanted more, I was like, well, I, I'll have to think about it. I did not plan to write anymore about that. Anne: Yeah. Well count me as one of those. Landon: Busy year coming up. Anne: Yeah. Well, it sounds like so much fun, all your projects coming up. Scott: You know what I, what I love about it is that when we were doing the first book in that series Huron Breeze, and there's this moment where there's a book within a book, right? There's a, a woman writer at the center of it, and she has written this wildly successful book, and they talk about how the audio book was narrated by Susanne Elise Freeman, my girlfriend. And I, and there was like a line or two in it that she actually says, and I said to Landon, you want me to have her come down to the booth and just have her say that? And so we had her do the, the opening credits too, so you -- her voice wouldn't come as a surprise. And then Landon gets this idea that like, oh, maybe I'll write the book within the book. And so he's having Suzanne narrate it; I just love it. It's become a cliche to, to talk about thinking outside the box, but that's where growth comes from. That's where industry norms become, you know, stretched and we expand and grow. And I just love the fact that he is open to, great, let's do something a little different. Anne: Well, I have to tell you, I'm not an audiobook narrator. I've, I've narrated one a long time ago, but I'll tell you what, you guys just make it sound so wonderful and delightful that, BOSSes out there, I'll tell ya, you guys are inspirational. And I really, really appreciate you talking to us today. And I had all these questions, but the whole conversation, I just love the direction it took and I appreciate. Scott: No, I was, and I was gonna have to cut you off from saying nice things. Anyway, that another 15 minutes. That's it. Anne: Well Scott, tell us, outside of working with Landon, is there anything else going on in your future that you'd like to let the BOSSes know about? Any other exciting projects? Scott: Yeah, I've got some wonderful books I've been working on recently. Just finished a historical thriller. It's non-fiction, but it was about the plot to kill Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin at the conference in Tehran, the first of the two times that the three of them met during World War II. The Nazi, it's called The Nazi Conspiracy. And that was really just a brilliant book. I'm also working on a couple of podcasting projects, scripted podcasts about the history of LA, the history of the entertainment industry. You can tell from books behind me, I love the silent film era, and I have an idea that I would love to just share with anybody who's like-minded and fascinated. Anne: Yeah. I'm already intrigued by that. I think that sounds like a fabulous idea. Scott: Awesome. Anne: Absolutely. So tell the BOSSes how they can get Narrator and any other book. Landon, where is it available, at Amazon, on your website? Where can they go to find out more? Landon: So there's links to all of my books on my website, LandonBeachBooks.com. But the Kindle version is exclusively on Amazon, but the paperback, you can get at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, anywhere pretty much. And the audio books are wide, so anywhere that audiobooks are sold, you can get a copy of Narrator in 30 seconds. Anne: Fantastic. Yes. So any last, I'm gonna say tips for the BOSSes out there for them to be BOSSes and be successful in their voiceover endeavors or their writing endeavors? Scott: I would say, from my perspective, don't be afraid to reach out to the author because you never know what can happen because of it. Be willing to do something that you might not ordinarily do in the booth. Years ago, there was a book I was doing where one character had an entire package of chewing gum we wanted in his cheek, and it actually spoke about how it changed the sound of his voice. And I knew it wouldn't sound right if I was just doing this. So I reached out and I said, would it be okay if I record all those lines separate and they get edited in later? I checked with the editor, with the publisher and I recorded the whole freaking thing with a, a wad of chewing gum in my mouth. And never in my life before or since have I brought chewing gum into a booth . But that was the time it seemed appropriate. So dare to think differently. Anne: Yeah. That makes the difference. Landon? Landon: Yeah, so I would say an idea that you might want to consider, I know that a lot of audiobook narrators, they will put some of their background and their history of what they did before they became an audiobook narrator. But I would encourage them to list as many things as they were involved in before because you never know if an author is writing about a specific subject -- we can use Narrator as an example. But of course I was looking for someone who had not only audiobook narrating experience, but performing arts experience, which was another reason it worked out perfectly to go with Scott on this. But maybe there is an opportunity of, I don't know, if you were a trucker or something else before you became a narrator, that you might be able to lend a unique experience and voice to that project in a realm that you're already really well versed in with audio books. So I would say, you know, not to run away from your previous background. It might lead to an interesting book that you're a part of. And the other part is just that, yes, there are some authors, and I can say this, they don't really wanna have a relationship. You know, they're like, I did this, you know. The narrator doesn't exist without me because I wrote the book. And you know, obviously those are not gonna be the kind of relationships that would work out like Scott. But with us, there might be an opportunity to really have a unique kind of collaborative environment, not like a total collaboration, which we've said, which is, you know, I have my turf and he has his. But yeah, there could be something that you did not know or expect. I never saw this coming until we became friends, and I, I really can't see Narrator without it now, if that makes sense. So. Yeah. Anne: Absolutely does. Well, gentlemen, it has been such a joy talking to both of you. Thank you so, so much for your words of wisdom and inspiration. And BOSSes, go get Narrator. I'm telling you, go out and get it now. In less than 10 seconds you can click and have this experience for yourselves. Gentlemen, thank you so much. I'm gonna give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and work like BOSSes. Find out more at ipDTL.com. You guys, have an amazing week and I'll see you next week. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Gratitude is not just a feeling. It's a practice, and it can change your life. This week, Anne & Lau discuss bringing gratitude into your life and biz. They dive into what gratitude can add to your life - a sense of purpose, community, & fulfillment. Take a moment to think about how grateful you are for your life, your family, and the people around you. What if you added just one more thing to that list? What if you took stock of what you're grateful for every day? A grateful mindset makes you easier to work with. It helps people feel good around you + attracts people & opportunities your way. So if you're ready to start crafting gratitude into your life, tune in! Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited as always to have with me my special guest co-host Lau Lapides for Business superpowers. Woohoo! Lau: Hey! Anne: Hey Lau. Lau: Hey Anne. So great to be back. Anne: It is wonderful, wonderful to have you. So I was noticing, Lau, lately, it's the holiday season or the holiday season is upcoming. And I have been seeing a lot of talk about gratitude and thanks and people have 30 days of thanks. And I think it's a wonderful thing. I love being able to express gratitude. I think it's healthy for us personally, and I also think it's healthy professionally, but I also think we should be practicing gratitude year round . And I think that gratitude can be a wonderful springboard for growth for not only yourself personally, but for your business. What are your thoughts? Lau: I could not have said that any better. And actually you took the words right out of my head. Anne: I did? Lau: Yes. I was just working with -- Anne: Great minds, Lau. Lau: Yes. I was working with some clients and we were saying, you know, this particular talent, whatever, they should be thankful for having this particular opportunity because it's so interesting, it's so unique and it's so hard to get. And I thought, oh my goodness, it's so true; having gratitude, being thankful every single day, like writing it down, speaking it to someone. Not just thinking it. Right, Anne, 'cause when it's in our head, it's not always as real as when we're doing something actively. Right? Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: So if I'm thankful, I'm gonna show an action based on that. If I'm really grateful for something, I might tell someone that I'm grateful, and that action is so important to do every single day of the year. Anne: I consider it a springboard for so many good things that can happen from the start of just thinking of being grateful. It turns your mindset around from, let's say, complaining about something . Like for example, it's been cooler now in Southern California. I for one, love the cooler weather, but sometimes that means, well now I gotta turn the heat on. And so therefore now my heating bill is gonna go up. Whatever it is, I'm just gonna be thankful that I have a change of seasons here in California. And I don't have to turn my air conditioning on. So I think it's a mindset switch from the thinking part of it. And then I think like as you were saying, I think putting things into action, telling people about what you're grateful for or telling people, like I'm grateful, Lau, that you are here today with me doing this podcast. And I'm grateful for all of the episodes that we've done so far. And I'm grateful for all the ones that are going to be coming up because I think it's just done wonders for me personally to get to know you. And I have gratitude for you as a friend, but also as a professional partner. Really. Lau: Well, I am so grateful that you thought to even ask me to be on the program. In fact, I'm gonna go back before that. I'm grateful that we were on a panel together, right? The gods of the panel conferencing universe put us together. I'm grateful that we're assertive business women. And we're unashamed and not frightened to reach out to each other, even though we didn't know each other at all. And say, hey, let me celebrate you. Let me work with you and bada bing, bada boom, as they say, I mean, it's like, wow. All of a sudden project, you thought to invite me to your podcast, which has been an incredible experience. And it's just that journey. I'm thankful for the journey of going on the process. Anne: That is what is so cool about -- you're right. It's not just a one time thought of gratitude. It becomes this journey which can evolve into so much more. So one single thought of gratitude can evolve into much more. And that thought of, wow, we were on that panel together. Wow, this is great. This woman is amazing. Like I really like, let me reach out to her and let's see if we can form a partnership and see if we can work together in some way. We worked together. We now have this wonderful series of podcast episodes, and I have grown personally and professionally. So many opportunities have now opened up for our relationship that we've developed. Right? Opportunities to meet other casting directors, to meet other people, to meet wonderful VO family. And it makes me connect to my East Coast roots. I mean, there's just so many good things that have happened from the one thought of grateful in my brain. So I love the action where you can not only think about what you're grateful for, but put it down on paper. I love the whole people putting what they're grateful for on Facebook or on Instagram, whatever your social media platform of choice. I think if everybody could just put what they're grateful for, like every single day, wouldn't that just be a cool thing? Lau: That's a great action to do. It's what I call making sparks. If you can make sparks, then you can make fire. And making fire is really about -- they used to say in business, you know, I'm setting the world on fire. not in any negative way, but like I'm awakening territory that I want to inspire new relationships, new fertile grounds for business, for not only business, but also for friendships, also for social relationships. Like you have to have that action inside of you so that you can do the spark, so that you can catch fire a little. You can't always rely on other people to do that for you. Right? Anne: Yeah. Lau: And that one little spark, that one little thing you make could do a whole lifetime, could open up a whole lifetime of a trajectory of business and friendship and joy and health for you. And you go, oh my gosh, if I hadn't done that, all of this other stuff would not have happened. Anne: I just saw that happen with a client that I had worked with, and I had the opportunity while I was at a conference to meet in person with them. And I remember -- you wouldn't think that I'm a nervous type , but sometimes, right, especially if this client -- this client was very well known, CEO, president of the company, that kind of thing. So when it comes time for me to just meet face to face for the first time, I'm a little bit like, oh my goodness. You know, I've done some work and I've had some association, but not direct all the time. Lau: Yeah, yeah. Anne: And meeting this person and expressing my gratitude, being able to work with them and how much I enjoyed it, how much I admired and respected their work really led to this relationship where I felt great about it. But not only that, but I just got another invitation to do some more work for this client. So I believe that it truly led to other work. And it doesn't mean -- now look, I think there's so many things that go into creating a good relationship with a client. It's not always about, oh, Anne Ganguzza has the best voice. Right? It really becomes, oh, she's got an amazing voice. But also she is wonderful to work with, she's easy to work with, she's reliable. And so those things all come into play. And when you're paying gratitude or respect to your clients, I truly believe that it will come back to you like threefold. Lau: That's exactly it. And there's a, you know, doing the checkbox is like, it just makes their life so easy then you are a great package. You do know what you're doing, you're well prepped, you're professional. They don't have to worry about the trust factor. But there's so much more in all of that. There's almost like a mystique, like a mysticism of how people come together, how gigs get done, how process takes place. There's -- is something very mystical about that. You can't always explain every single step. Like how were we in particular invited to that panel? How did we notice each other and then reach out to each other? I don't know. There's kind of like an unspoken truth that we may not know what that is and it's okay to not know. But then is that makes it exciting a little bit. It's not completely predictable. All we know is we have the ability to assert ourselves and to put our best foot forward. That's like all we know. And then if it doesn't work out, we're eloquent about saying, okay, it's not gonna work out now. Hopefully in the future it'll work out. But being the fire starter, making that spark is really important and not waiting for someone else to do it. Anne: You know what else is interesting? And this is making me think now in terms of, I said, well, it's not always about your voice. Right? It could be the whole package. I truly believe, especially in these times where we want authenticity, we want believability. I truly believe that you, that you bring to the party, that unique part of you, if gratitude is a part of that, I think it's an attraction, right, for other people. And so, even though you might be reading somebody else's words from a script, that gratitude is part of your personal makeup. And that personal makeup is part of that you that you're bringing to the party. And I believe that the positivity, I think there's a lot of positivity around gratitude, that comes with just you being authentic and then bringing that authentic you to the script -- even if it's like behind, let's say, a character that's an evil villain or whatnot, there's still a part of you that you're bringing to it that cares that you're entertaining or cares that you're connecting. And I think that, like you said, that kind of part that you can't touch or feel it, that part is an important part of your voice and the package that you bring to the table. So I think that gratitude is one of those personality traits or one of those emotions that I think can really come out and affect your physical voice as well. Lau: No question. I think it affects everything, not just your mindset and your voice. It affects your body and how you move in space and how you make people feel. I always feel like, whether you're at home in your home studio, or whether you're at an office or going to someone else's rehearsal place or place of business, how do you make people feel at home? How do you host them in your space? And I, I always feel like if I come from a place of acceptance and gratitude, and thankfulness, and joy, and appreciation, they feel that. There's a pathos in that, there's an emotional pathos that they just pick up immediately that is not a self-centered, narcissistic kind of overly focused on myself kind of thing. But it's like, how are you feeling? Are you warm in this place? Are you comfortable? Do you have what you need? What have you. That I always feel comes out of knowing what to be grateful for. I don't think it's enough just to be grateful. I have to be specific. Just like my vocal delivery. I have to be specific on what am I thankful for? What am I grateful for? Let me write that down. Let me talk that to someone. Let me tell them. I mean, I don't know, it's kind of spiritual, isn't it? If I tell you, like you just told me, I'm so thankful for you, Anne, to have you as my new friend, my colleague, someone who's an inspiration in my life. Oh, I just got goosebumps. My eyes got a little watery on that because -- Anne: Me too. Lau: -- it's emotional. It kicks up those muscles in you as an actor that go right into your muscles that are holding emotion, right? You see my eyes got a little watery when I said that. I'm not upset or sad. Anne: So it can make you a better actor. Look at that. I love that. I love that. Right? Some of the good things that come from feeling that emotion, and so much more moving forward energy than, let's just say, there's a lot of complaining going on in some of these social media circles. Right? And I feel like it's one thing to, if you have something that you're unhappy about, maybe, I don't know, either getting it out, writing it down, whatever it is. But I think a constant rehashing and circling and it's like some ball of negative energy. I don't think that that's necessarily healthy. So I think that the more positive things that you can spin and then encircle yourself with and discuss and tell and talk with and -- I think the more forward we can move. I'm always about moving forward and not like staying in a pool of negativity. . Lau: I agree. I agree. Anne: Right? Lau: And you know, now that I think about it, you know, I'm in the commercial market as an agent, I'm thinking that probably 80'% to 90% of the copy that we see for talent is copy that you would describe as warm, friendly, healing, paternal or maternal, inclusive -- all these terms that you think, okay, I'm an actor. How do I get that out? How do I do it on the spot? How about this, one tactic is to do exactly what we're saying and be grateful. Write down what you're thankful for. Really pay attention to it in detail, emotionalize it and feel it. So you can call upon that when you're doing that next healthcare read. You can call upon that when you're doing that next parental read to say, wow, okay, I remember, I can recall -- actors recall. I can recall what that actually feels like as me a person. Then I can put that into my read. And now it becomes much more authentic and realistic to me as a person. 'Cause that conversational thing throws us all the time. Anne: It does. Lau: What is conversational, you know? Anne: And you know what's so interesting? So I'm gonna see that commercial and I'm gonna -- corporate copy, which honestly, if you think about it, it's the same end goal, right? Commercial, selling a product or selling a brand, same thing with corporate copy. Even though you might be delivering information like, here's our corporate governance, or this is who we are as a company, or this is a product that we're talking about as a company -- it's just a longer format, but still the same end result, right? Companies want you to be on board with their product and with their brand so that ultimately you'll buy from them. But I always like to go all the way back and say, look, when I worked in the corporate world, I remember, and I think I mentioned this to you, I was employee number 246 , um, at the company that I worked with out of school. And I loved the product, I loved the company, I loved what we did. I was passionate about it. I felt like we were helping people. I want everybody that's voicing a piece of commercial copy or corporate copy or whatever it is that has a product to think about that company. Ultimately, I wanna look at the good and say that, well, whoever formed this company, let's say, I'm speaking on behalf of, I don't know, Hope Hospital or whoever that is, there was a good inherent in the formation of that company or that product because they wanted that product to help someone. And that's what I like to think in terms of when I'm going into a piece of copy that there's always a good for this product that's going to help people. And when I think that way, that brings out that positive, that gratefulness, that thankfulness, and that becomes the real and the authentic part of me voicing copy from that. So it goes beyond just, well, let's say I remember that feeling from being grateful here, but here, let's put ourselves in the scene. Let's be an employee of the company, and let's be grateful that we are offering something that can help others to do their jobs better, to be faster, whatever. Lau: And that's that deep dive empathy factor that we're all kind of going for. We may not use it all the time, but we wanna have access to that when we need to have access to that. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: And yes, it's not enough to say, oh, I understand it intellectually. I get it. I'm thankful intellectually that's the beginning. But I think the deeper dive is I can feel that I can live that with you. I can go through the hardship of it. I can understand the problem solving, the need filling, the care taking of that. I can get there and because I can get there, there is that true authenticity to that kind of read, whatever that read is, I would venture to say you could put that into anything, whether it was corporate or audio book -- Anne: Character. Lau: -- eLearning, right, character. There's gotta be a little nugget of something that, you know, what reminds me of Anne? Remember in all the famous sitcoms, like all of our favorite sitcoms from the past, they always yak-yak-yak-yak-yak. They had their studio laugh traps. Funny, funny, funny, funny. And then there was this one moment would land the entire episode where everyone would get quiet in the studio and you'd find yourself crying and you're like, why am I crying? It's like The Brady Bunch. Why we crying? It's like MASH. Why? Why did I feel that? Because they knew that. The writers were so smart, they knew how to take humor. And all of a sudden landed in such a way where we started to feel like, ooh, this is a real person and this is a real problem that we have to solve. And we're using humor to solve it in this case. And in the case of a sitcom, well, we're using all different kinds of tactics to solve our client's problems. Not just humor. We're using a lot of tactics. But the baseline is I have to land it. I have to feel what you feel. I have to move through it with you and I have to solve it. Anne: That's so interesting. And you said a word that I use a lot. And that's empathy. So empathy, when you are connecting with the copy and you are speaking to the person, right? You're speaking to a person who you wanna empathize with. What are their pains? What are their joys? What are their frustrations? And I think that there's so many emotions that play into the grateful, thankful part of it that we tap into. And I think what came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first? Empathy or thankful like . Do you know what I mean? I think they all can lead into a whole series of emotions. I think you can be thankful for just about everything in your life. I mean, I've always been that person that has tried to take what most people would consider a negative event and turn it into something that I'm grateful and thankful for. And one of those, and I've said it multiple times and I'll delve a little bit into it, is my cancer diagnosis. Right? I always, always had a passion for living and being grateful, but actually being diagnosed with cancer and then facing my mortality really made me a billion times more grateful for everything that I had and everything that I have now. And it's funny because I'm continually reminded in a way, because sometimes they say your journey is continual. Right? I still go to the doctor, I still get checked up, and every time I go to get checked up, you don't think I check, what am I grateful for? What am I thankful for? I'm thankful that I got through another test. I'm thankful that so many things. And in a way that's a blessing for me . And I can only see it as that because it helps me to always remind myself of what is wonderful in my life. What am I grateful for? What am I thankful for? And being in the booth, doing what I love, of course I was always thankful for it. But boy, am I thankful for it now because it's something that I was able to do literally two weeks after a major operation, I was be able to get in my booth and do something that I loved, which I was thankful for, thankful that I was able to do that and thankful that I was still there to do it. Lau: And you are not just a survivor now you're a thriver. Anne: Yes, yes. Lau: Right? Because you're really utilizing this journey as one big tool of knowledge to understand how do I unlock, how do I unlock that chest of deep emotion? Like deep feeling, deep empathy. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: And that to me is like, that's the ultimate truth. And even for the listeners who say, oh, I can't do any of this, I don't get the, any of this. Even from your business standpoint, just from your business standpoint, it allows you to come outside of yourself so you're not just self reflecting all the time. Anne: Right. Lau: And open up the gestalt of your world. Really just see the full map of what's around you when you have that moment of thankfulness. It just makes you remember that, oh my gosh, I have a mother, or I have a a husband, or I have a child, or I have a dog that I love so much. What would I do? What would I do without that dog? Anne: And that all contributes to not only your personal, but even your professional because of what we do, which is so I think part of our person, it's so personal, and it's so gauged on how we can be real and authentic. And that is, that's a privilege to be able to get paid for that. You know, to be able to get paid, you know, as an actor, right? To get paid for being able to bring those emotions to life and feel and express. And I think when it comes to being thankful and grateful that the action, again, I love the action, write it down what it is that we're thankful for. But also let's express it. Let's take it one step further, right? So how can BOSSes benefit from being thankful and grateful? Well, I'm gonna say outside of your own personal growth and your business growth, extend that to your clients, right? Extend your gratefulness to your clients to really secure -- I mean Lau, you and I have talked about securing relationships and nurturing relationships. I'll tell you that's one thing that will nurture your relationship with your clients, express to your gratefulness, to your clients. And don't just do it once a year, you know, at the holidays or twice a year. At any given point, just a simple note. It makes you feel good too, right? It does. But email or you, you pick up that phone and you're just like, Thank you. I am so thankful for the opportunity to work with you. I really appreciate it. And I think that that just extends goodwill. And it can help you grow your business. Lau: Anne, I had a new colleague, a co-producer in New York that I'm working with now, who said to me when we, not when we very first met, but within the first few months, he had come to one of my events, and he wrote back to me, I'll never forget this, he wrote back to me, he said, I'm so grateful to be a part of your life and your studio family. Thank you for including me in that. Just the way he said that, and that was on email, just the way he said that. I kept it. And I never forgot. I just thought that was the sweetest, kindest, most beautiful moment. As someone that I didn't know really a stranger, at all, who felt like he was so included. And I knew in that moment, you know in that moment when someone says that to you, Anne, not only are you doing your job, but you're also being a really progressive and thoughtful human being. Anne: Mm. Yes. Lau: You know what I mean? Anne: I love that. Mm-hmm. Lau: 'Cause it can't just be about business, right? It's gotta be about human, human people and what we're doing and giving to one another. That's really what it is. No matter what holiday you celebrate, if you don't celebrate any holidays at all, every day is kind of a holiday. Remember Madonna, Holiday, celebrate. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: Every day should be a little bit of a holiday for you to celebrate life and what life is offering to you. Anne: Mm-Hmm. I totally agree. And I think extending that gratefulness and that thankfulness to your clients, I think that is the epitome of maybe not every single day, but absolutely that email. And I think also because we are so isolated in our studios -- I keep going back to like when I was in the corporate world and I would go into the office every day, and I would be surrounded by people or you know, when I first started in voiceover and I would go to an audition, I would be in a room full of people who are auditioning. I mean, it's kind of like being at the water cooler. And I feel like the gratefulness and thankfulness needs to be even more so because we are so isolated these days from the pandemic -- well now, we're getting more back into face to face where I think that makes an even more meaningful contribution when you're thankful and grateful and you're there. 'Cause you can see it, you can feel it. But if we are in our studios a lot of the time, I think we need to go an extra mile to showcase thankfulness and gratefulness to our clients. Because it's not so palpable for not like with them physically. Lau: Mm-Hmm. And on top of that, I mean, I think we would be off track if we didn't mention that every day you're gonna get something that gets boomerang; it's going be thrown in your path, a little obstacle, a little problem, a little something that doesn't go well. Be thankful for that. Anne: Yes. Lau: Be thankful because those are opportunities for you to learn and grow and feel hardship and feel fear and feel insecurity because that's what your client is feeling. That's what your colleagues are feeling. That's what people around you are feeling like -- Anne: That brings the empathy. Lau: -- understand that. Yeah. I wanna be able to live that a little, not all day long, but I wanna be able to be in that and understand it so that I don't think, oh, everything's gonna be smooth sail. Everything's gonna be easy going. No, I have to be thankful for the moments that teach me things that I didn't know, that I wasn't willing to look at or learn and now I see it. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. And being grateful for those moments, the moments when they're not all shining and rosy just again turns that into a positive moment. And, and of course positivity is a springboard for so many wonderful things. So, I love this conversation. I talk about gratefulness like every year right around this time because everybody's grateful and I talk about it, but I love the way that we deep dove into gratefulness and thankfulness and how it can positively affect you BOSSes out there by practicing it every single day. So Lau, thank you so much. Really. Yeah. I am grateful for this conversation. I loved it. Loved it. Lau: I'm grateful for you and how we unpacked this today. Anne: Right? Lau: It was really quite amazing. So thank you for that. And I'm grateful that this has recorded so that we can reflect on it over and over again. Anne: Well yes. Absolutely. So I am going to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and show gratefulness and thankfulness with other BOSSes and clients and colleagues. Find out more at ipDTL.com. And also guys, if you want to give back and have a chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference and give back to the communities that give to you, visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. We are grateful for you. We love you and we'll see you next week. Take care. Lau: Take care. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

What gets you through the hard days? Purpose. It's what keeps you going when things are tough and when life seems overwhelming. Purpose is your why. Your VO biz is not just a job, it's an expression of who you are and what matters most to you. This week, Anne & Lau talk about what purpose is, why it matters (and why it doesn’t have to be all about profits), + how you can identify your business' purpose. They also discuss ways to make sure that your clients, agents, and peers can feel your passion in your presence + hear it in your voice. Finally, they talk about how clear communication of your purpose can help align you with other people who share similar visions and goals. Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. And today I'm excited to bring back very special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you? Lau: Hey! I'm awesome. I'm loving being back as always. Anne: I love this series, speaking of the business superpower series. So as business owners, we are superpowers, and one of our superpowers, Lau, has to be our purpose, right? Why did we get into this whole voiceover thing in the first place? And I think it's really important for us to understand what our purpose is and bring it to our business. I've been in this business for a long time, and sometimes that gets thrown by the wayside during the busy days. And sometimes we can maybe forget what our purpose is in the business, but I think we need to realign ourselves with who we are and who we are as a business and what is our purpose. Because people and potential clients align with that. And I think it's important these days. Lau: Yes, well said, Anne. We were just saying before that we start out with purpose when we're starting a business, but the purpose may change. It doesn't always stay the same through the years. If you're have luck and fate and love and passion, and you have a lot of longevity in your business, you become more and more purposeful and more and more subdivided in the reenvisioning and repurposing your purpose. And that, you know, that's something that all of our superheroes that we know and love have in common. They all have purpose. It's like to save the world, right, from certain destruction. Anne: Right. Lau: One of my purposes is to offer the world something specific that helps solve their pain point. What's their problem? What's their need? What is it? Anne: Exactly, what's their problem. And I'm going to say that it's important these days to have purpose beyond profit, right? There should be some element of your purpose that not only are you in business to make money, but you are also wanting to bring value to society or value to a cause that you might believe in, and something that I think your potential clients can hear clearly stemming from your business and get on board with, because I think you'll really end up with a lot of customer loyalty if you get people on board with your purpose. So it's not just to, I wanna voice a national commercial. I know that when we first start in the industry, we start with something very close to us. Well, it's a passion, you know, a lot of people getting into it. I love to create character voices, or I read to my children a lot. And so -- I've been told I have a good voice. And so I wanna be able to bring something to my career with my voice. I wanna be able to use it. So I think we need to look further and deeper into ourselves beyond that sole purpose of, yes, I'm passionate about voicing, but what else is it that you wanna bring to, let's say your business, to society that can help to, I think, elevate you and motivate you forward? And especially as you said over the years, like we kind of conquer and divide or divide and conquer and, and create more aspects of our business. And yeah, sometimes we start to really lose where that purpose -- where did that go? What am I doing this for? Lau: Hmm, yes. It's like losing an inner compass for a lot of us that start out extremely strong. I think it would be fair to say as a sweeping generalization, that many entrepreneurs, many solopreneurs start out with a high level of zest, of passion, of what used to be inserts that none of us ever knew; that was the Retzin. Like what's the Retzin in our purpose? So you gotta have that because that passion, that purpose really inspires you through the difficult days, through the tough times. You're right. It can't just be profit driven because there are gonna be many days where you're simply not gonna make a profit. And it's unrealistic to think that it's my business -- yeah, my business should be making profit all the time. I actually thought that at one point. Anne: News flash! News flash. . You may not make a profit every day. Lau: It sounds ridiculous. But it's like one of my actors, literally, literally this morning, I was talking to her and she said, I'm concerned -- she had switched agencies. And she said, I'm very concerned. I said, why are you concerned? She said, I'm not getting that many auditions. I'm getting like, whatever a week. I said, well, wait a second here. First of all, you have to examine -- I use the word intention, but purpose is great, fits right in right here -- like, what do you realistically want here? And what is your purpose in doing this? Surely it can't be that you're gonna get auditions all day long and book gigs all day long. Anne: Right. Lau: And make a profit all day long. Right? A lot of people actually do think that way. They think, well, I'm here. I'm talented. I love what I do. I'm ready. so why aren't I getting the outcomes that I'm expecting? Well, life isn't like that and business isn't like that. Business is really about relational management. How are you paying attention to the details of the client and what is their purpose and identifying it, like determining do they have purpose? And is it specific enough? Anne: Yeah. And I think that purpose probably starts when people get into the voice industry. I have so many people that I do consults with and there are people like, well, you know what, it's the pandemic, I'm at home. And I wanna be able to work from home and make money. I need to make money. And I'm like, well, okay. So that purpose is not as developed as somebody that I would necessarily wanna work with. So because their whole purpose is to simply survive probably or make money. And that's not necessarily the best purpose to come into the voiceover industry just simply because it's freelancer, and, and yeah, news flash we don't make profits every single day or maybe we do. But in order to get to that point of making a profit every single day, I think there's a lot more steps that need to be taken in terms of evolving your business and growing your business. But in the beginning, it's almost like a self-centered, I have a passion for voiceover. I enjoy it. I'm passionate about it, but I think it needs to go further than that. So it's a passion for you that you love to do, but what can it bring to your business? What can it bring to your potential clients? So for me, for example, some of my background, I worked for a short bit of time in orthopedic industry and in medicine. And so my voiceover genres have evolved into medical narration. And so I really take heart in wanting to voice something that will help people. And so my purpose, when I'm reading the back of that pharmaceutical label, it's not so that I can make money. It's my gig. I'm making, you know, $1000 or whatever I'm making. I'm imagining that I am helping someone who is frantically reading that label to make sure that they're taking the right dosage and to make sure that they're not gonna have crazy side effects and what to do in case they are, and where do they contact? What number do I call? And so I'm really thinking about that purpose, going beyond just me getting paid for the job. I wanna make sure that I'm able to bring my voice and my help and my service to people, to society. And that is just one small example. It's another reason also why I do eLearning gigs, because I feel that my purpose in life is to educate and to be -- I feel like that's really where my sole purpose is, is to really educate and bring education to other people, to help them grow their businesses or grow their voice over careers. And so for me, that love of teaching extends to my business, to my client. And so I take pride in the fact that there's purpose in that. There's purpose in this podcast. You know, this podcast stemmed from my wanting to give back to the community and have an educational resource for people that wanted to find out more about the voiceover industry. Lau: Mm that's great. I love that. What a great soliloquy and you know what? I just had a visual, speaking of branding and everything we talk about with business, I had a visual of like cleaner, like Windex cleaner or one of those cleaners. Why? Because on the front label, you almost always see the word multipurpose, on the front label. Okay, so that's the claim that they're making is that I can use it on my stove and my sink and I can use it on the windows. Right? It makes me think we need to have multipurpose as well. I think its a misnomer to think well, I just have one purpose. What's my purpose? Anne: Yeah. Lau: We're multidimensional human beings. And I can have the purpose that I honestly wanna help someone. I wanna guide them. I wanna sherpa them, if you will, but I also want them to create a viable return based business. And then I also want to lift the ethos of the company or what have you. So it's a multidimensional, multi-purpose framework that I think we can create versus this idea of, oh, I just have one thing in mind. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I was thinking about this this past week and I wanted to tell you, Lau, the one thing that I love about you, I honestly feel and I get the vibe that you are more excited even than I am to get work for me as an, as an agent. I really feel that because you reach out and you're asking me questions and then I can feel and hear the excitement. You're like, oh, I've got an opportunity. And I really believe that you get so excited about bringing opportunities and bringing job fulfillment to your roster. But I think it's more than just job fulfillment. It's about helping us to grow. And I really feel that from you. And so it's like practice what we're talking about, that makes me want to align with you even more. And so it really does my heart good to feel that from someone that I'm working with, because that makes me wanna work with you more. And I really believe that if we have a purpose that is to serve our clients, right, in the very best way, that's gonna be very obvious to them that that is what we are there. We are there to help them, to help them grow, to help them sell that campaign, whatever it is. If you are admitting that through your job, through your voice, through your interactions with them, it's very much a feel and something that makes them want to work with you again. Lau: Oh, thank you for saying that. Anne: Yeah. Lau: I deeply appreciate that. And it's all true. Anne: It's true. It's very true. Lau: And I feel like you can feel that from an email, you can feel that from a text, at least I can and you can. Anne: Yeah. Lau: I can feel the level of connectivity. Anne: In three words. 'Cause you're busy, and you send me three words and I'm like, oh God, she's excited. She's gonna get me an opportunity. I can tell -- Lau: That's right, that's right. Anne: -- from that short sentence and it's so amazing that you can do that. And it's like a magnet. And I think that that is something that we all can learn for our own selves in understanding our purpose and understanding us wanting to be more than just the profit making business. that's out there doing voiceovers. Lau: I would venture to say purpose is addictive. It's addictive. It's catchy. It's something when you're around, it influences you. You know, we talked about influencers all the time, but how do we influence our peeps, your VO Peeps and our audiences to move in a purposeful, mindful, specific and honest way is how we demo what we do, how we role play, what we do. It's hard to tell, but, but you guys should do this and you should do that. And then, then they don't see it in you. They're watching, they're mirroring psychologically. They're saying, Anne, I wanna see that in you. And when I see that in you, all of a sudden, I feel like I wanna do more. I feel like I wanna commit more. In fact, I wanna try, I wanna take more risks. Anne: It's motivational. It's inspirational. And again, if I go back to this podcast, I specifically remember, gosh, the podcast is now I'm gonna say close to six years old. Lau: Woo! Anne: That's a commitment by the way. This podcast is, is a free resource for people, my heart wanting to give something back to the community. And interestingly enough, I feel like for myself, when I got to a point in my career where I was not so frantic, but about, oh my God, am I going to make it? Am I going to be okay? And I started to feel the success, I wanted to share that and give back. And that became the sole mission of the VO BOSS podcast was to give back and to provide an educational resource. And even more so like these series, the superpower series, my AI series, you know, that's something that, again, I wanted to be kind of up front and educate myself and help educate the community on what's coming up in the industry. And what do we need to be on the lookout for? And that all comes from a place of wanting to help and wanting to provide resources so that people can use those resources to intelligently make decisions about their own businesses. And hopefully people that listen to the podcast feel that. And they, they can feel that from me as I continue to bring phenomenal guests like yourself onto the show so that we can help to be a resource. Lau: No doubt. No doubt. I do agree with you. I think even if you're not thinking in a philanthropic mindset, there is this essence, this circular, however you believe, a karmic essence, a circular that what you put out into the world -- and I teach this to my children and I try very hard to live it -- is put out exactly what you would want to get back. If it were a boomerang and I said this to someone, I did this to or for someone, would I want that for myself? Anne: Yeah. Lau: That old do unto others. But it really is true because there is a circular effect in our industry of what I'm putting out. And sometimes it's not profit driven, as we know. And sometimes we don't get paid as we know. There's always this karma effect of wonderful things that come back to you, and it could be in the form of just like a quick one liner. Someone says you change the way I think. You change the trajectory of maybe my life and you think, whoa, I love paychecks, but no paycheck can make me feel that way. Anne: It reminds me exactly why I loved education. And that's why I was in the education industry for 20 years. The fact that I had an opportunity to make a difference. And the funny thing is, is that it wasn't even about like, was I a good teacher? It was the fact that I had the opportunity to help and shape and hopefully motivate, hopefully inspire a mind that can grow and be successful, and I can be happy. And there is nothing, nothing better than that feeling of watching a student of yours go on to be successful. And I I'm gonna say I'm so, I'm so blessed, I really am, to have experienced that for so long and continue to experience. And I, I think that's why I think I was born to be an educator, which is why so much of my business is about education. Now, of course it's about voiceover as well. But like you said, there can be multiple purposes. So is there just one purpose? No, not necessarily. Right? I have that purpose of, I wanna be that voice that helps people when they're reading the back of the pharmaceutical label. I wanna be a voice that can educate others through an e-learning module. I also want to actually have something that can, you know, like my podcast or my VO Peeps group that can help the education. And again, VO Peeps was also stemmed from that same reasoning when I moved from the east coast to the west coast, I wanted to meet people who were in the industry. And I thought, well, what better way than let's create a group of people who are voiceover artists and VO Peeps began. And then I wanted to provide resources because I missed teaching. So it's funny because of course I love voiceover, but it turned into like multiple compartments of my business. And I think that anybody today in the voiceover industry, I don't know if I'd be so bold just to say this, but I think there are times as we grow, we do need to have multiple paths of income, right, in this industry. So I might not just be doing voiceover for all of my money. A lot of people it's just starting out have to have a part-time job or multiple revenue streams until they get to a point where voiceover becomes their full-time income. And that's where your purposes come in. Lau: Absolutely, Anne. I mean, that's, to me, it's a given, to you it's a given, but we do have to educate people that that is the nature of being a contractor. That is the nature of being a trades person, that you are going from job to job. And you kind of have to remember that throughout your life, but also it's okay. Like give yourself permission that whatever you call yourself, you're a creative, you're an artist. You are, whatever you call that thing in you that drives you, that gives you purpose also multitasks in different creative directions that you have to realize. A lot of times you can't be satisfied in just one direction. You have to be multi-directional -- Anne: Ding ding ding! Lau: -- multi-purposeful, right, to feel like -- Anne: Ding ding ding! Lau: -- yeah, excited and revived, a little splash in the face, 'cause you got a new project. I'm taking on a few new things right now that scare me to death, which I love. Because I haven't done them before. You do that throughout your whole life. Anne: I think as creatives, right, that's part of the whole creative mindset, is that I've always said I can't be bored, which is probably why I love to learn. Right? It's probably why I loved technology. I was in technology 'cause things change, things evolve. I liked fixing things. I was in technology. I would fix broken computers, all of those things that required me to do different creative things every single day. And thus, yes, I think as a creative entrepreneur, that's why multiple purposes can be beneficial. And for me it's so much about what can I give, and even in our performances, I'm always telling my students, it's not about your voice. It's about your connection to your listener, and what is it that you're going to do for your listener as you are servicing that piece of copy, right, for a company that's selling a product? What is that product going to do for the person that's listening? How is it going to help them? And that is where the glue is. That's where the connection is. That's where sales become successful. When you are able to help people, right, with a product that will make them feel better, look better, whatever, help them in some way. And that's what becomes the attraction, that force. Right? Lau: So, Anne, would it be fair to say that no matter where you're at in this game, that you've gotta think multi-purposeful and multidimensional that, on one hand, okay. It's a truism, I'd like to work. I'd like to be trained well. I'd like to have great equipment. Okay. We get that. But what is the higher purpose? What is the more multidimensional purpose of how -- let's say you're doing educational reads, eLearning -- how am I affecting a generation of middle schoolers as I do do this? Anne: Sure. Lau: How is my messaging? My voice, but my messaging here really taking effect? And is that an honest purpose that I have? Anne: Sure. And it can go beyond just the purpose of the effect of your voice having on let's say certain campaigns or people, but it can go on to say, well maybe I decide to take a percentage of my earnings. And I donate it or whatever that is. Or as part of my day to day business, I have a certain set amount of time where I mentor people, and it doesn't even have to be in voiceover. It could be in any sort of thing. Right? So a lot of companies have that philanthropic part to their business, because again, it's that what is a higher purpose for your company, for your business? And it's funny because a lot of people will relate it to like the creative aspect of it. What is my purpose? But in reality, defining your purpose in your business, right, it goes beyond just what is my purpose? But how does this purpose affect your business? And how is it that you are communicating that purpose? Is it clear? Do potential clients understand this about you and your brand? How are you communicating that purpose out to the world? Lau: And is it in alignment with the population or the clients that you're working with or out of you? Or are you out of alignment? I think identifying that and being honest about that -- sometimes you're just not in alignment with the people that you're working with or clients that you're working with. And then it's not a good thing that. Anne: Yeah, usually that doesn't end up working out. Lau: Yeah. I mean, you might have an organization that's highly philanthropic, and they want you to have an honest connection to the work you're doing. And you're coming in and saying, well, it's good gig. I'll add it to my resume. I'll get some money on it. It'll be good. People will hear my voice, but their vision is a lot deeper than that. And they need a lot more emotional commitment. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: You have to kind of be honest about that and say, is this a good fit? Are we spiritually aligned? Sometimes you have to think that way. Because sometimes you're not. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And we can hear that. Like we get that. We can hear that. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: I can hear that in a demo even. I can hear it demo when someone is just not aligned, not present. They're not aligned. They're not present, they're doing it. And it's more of a perfunctory exercise than having joy. Some of my closer friends in the industry talk a lot about having honest, happiness and joy in what you're doing. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: And I think that's okay to have. It doesn't have to be this heavy, serious thing all the time. Anne: Right, right. Lau: There's okay to have humor. It's okay. To have joy. It's okay. To have that level of cookiness and quirkiness 'cause you're creative. That's what creatives do. Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: Right? We get paid to be quirky. Anne: Yes. There you go. Lau: In a way, you know what I mean? Like, oh, I shouldn't do this. I shouldn't sound that I shouldn't. Well, but sometimes you get hired for that stuff. Sometimes you have long term relationships 'cause they know how quirky you are. Right? And we're both quirky. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: And sometimes that becomes kind of part of the purpose is like one of my purposes is I'm gonna stay true to my persona and my personality while I service the client in the most honest way that I can, but I don't wanna lose myself. In other words, I don't wanna lose my identity. I don't wanna lose who I am. That's a toughie. Anne: Sure. Yeah. A lot of times when we think about, okay, do you align with certain ideals? Right? Do you align with diversity, inclusivity in casting? That's a big one today, right, that all around in corporations, it's all about inclusion, diversity and that sort of thing. So is that something that you align with in casting? Are you willing to pass on opportunities if you feel that it's not the right job for you. Are you gonna pass on an audition or are you gonna recommend somebody that you feel would be better? So that goes beyond, well, I'm gonna do every single job, and it's not just about like the political genre, right? Because the political genre, that's very obvious. Right? So are you on one side or the other? And so this really just goes beyond just a political genre kind of thing in terms of like your purpose and aligning yourself with ideals and making them known to your client. It's about everything that you do. It's about how you communicate it to your client. It's embedded in your performance. That's what I love that you, you brought that back into the performance aspect. We can hear it if you are not aligned in that way. And so I think for the BOSSes out there, if you haven't sat down and just, in a quiet area and just thought about your purpose, maybe jot it down or your purposes, right, what is it that you really are trying to do with your business that can be more than just creating profit? Lau: Yes. I'll leave you on this note. My dad who recently passed away, not too long ago, he was a great businessman, great entrepreneur. And he would give me loads of wisdom, loads of gems of wisdom. And one of the ones I will never forget, way before I even started a business, he would say about starting businesses, he'd say you need to do what your plan is, what your plan of action is, do it for free, and do it for a long time to make sure that you wanna do it because once you start a business on it, don't expect to make money for a good five to seven years. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Right? And the Eastern philosophy is like 10 years. Like don't expect to really make a profit. Okay. So I always kept that in the back of my head. Don't mistake that for devaluing what you do. Oh, I'm only gonna do it for free and work for free. It's to say like, if you take that as an example, don't take it too literally. Take that as an example and say for a period of time, whether it's philanthropic or whether it's just for my own sense of knowing what my purpose is, I'm not gonna collect money on this. And these situations are appropriate for me not to collect money on this, and see how I feel about the work that I'm doing. Am I really willing to put in X amount of hours without billing X amount of hours? I found that very telling, and certainly actors who come from actor backgrounds spend years not getting paid or getting paid very low wages, and still do it, still wanna do it, still wanna continue it. Anne: And that's so interesting because if you've ever read any of Bob Bergen's posts, he's all about, I didn't start doing it for the money, and he had a purpose. Lau: Right, right. Anne: And so he's very adamant about that to the point where I think some people kind of look at him and go, okay, okay. Okay. But I've gotta, you know, pay the mortgage. Lau: Exactly. Anne: That kind of a thing, but it's the thought, right? So this is -- Lau: It's the thought. Anne: -- purpose driven beyond profit, but it doesn't mean that if you're a good business, you cannot create wealth, right? Not just, you cannot make money, wealth in so many ways, right, is that you are contributing to society in a positive manner, as well as making money doing it. And so therein lies the question. So what is my purpose? And have I stayed true to that? Or my purposes, right? And have I stayed true to that? Lau: Yes. To piggyback onto what you just said, one testament to that may be that you are working, you are having a viable business -- take on some charity projects, take on some philanthropic, take on some projects where you're mentoring or maybe you are doing something for visually impaired or what have you so that you can balance it out in your heart and your soul and say, not everything is a paycheck, not everything is an invoice, not everything is how much I can get -- but really get you off that just for a moment to say, oh, this may be another purpose for me that is a slightly higher purpose at times. Anne: Right. Right. Lau: That can feed me in a way that the other jobs may not be able to feed me. Anne: Sure. Sure. Lau: And kind of balance it that way versus all or nothing. I either work for free or I work for as much as I can get. Anne: Or if it is for a profit redistributing that, right, maybe giving back in some other way. Right? Lau: Exactly. Exactly. Anne: So sharing the wealth, so to speak. But yeah, what a great conversation. Lau: What a great conversation. Anne: I really had some time to think about it. I really enjoyed writing that blog article. It just really led me to think about, what am I here today doing, and how did I start off, and how have I evolved over the years? And I can say, I'm grateful that I'm still true to my original purpose and also my evolved purposes. So I feel like I'm staying on track. It's something that I, I don't take for granted either. So I think we should all take some time and to kind of check deep within and see if we have that purpose and if we're following that purpose. Lau: I love it. And now we can all be like the cleaners. Like we can all be like Windex and 409 and say we're multi-purpose. Anne: Multi-purpose. Lau: We're gonna clean up. But we're multi-purpose. Anne: I love it. All right. Wow. Great stuff. Lau: Good stuff. Anne: Great stuff. So I'm going to give a great big shout-out to my sponsor, 100voiceswhocare.org. If you wanna find out how you can make a difference, and this can be part of your purpose, go to 100voiceswhocare.org and find out ways that you can give back. Also big shout-out to sponsor ipDTL. I love, love, love ipDTL and networking with BOSSes like Lau. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. 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Everyone's got Imposter Syndrome. But it doesn't mean you're a fraud. In this episode, Anne & Lau dive into why we are so attached to the sound of our voice and how fixating on that can be a barrier to success. Voice is an essential part of how we are perceived, which affects our personal and professional lives. When you listen to yourself critically, it's easy to get lost in technical details. Your voice is your greatest tool, so stop doubting it. It is an instrument and the vehicle for your craft. So Bosses, love your voice. Embrace it. And if you still need some extra pointers to overcome your inner critic and use your voice to the fullest, listen up… Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and our business superpower series. I'm Anne Ganguzza, your host, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show Lau Lapides. Lau, hello. Lau: Hello. Hello. Glad to be back as always. Anne: How's your week been, Lau? Lau: Amazing. Busy, amazing, wonderful. Went on vacation. We were talking about this earlier. Went on vacation up to the Berkshires 'cause I'm in New England. Anne: Of course. Lovely. Lau: It was a workcation. Anne: Ah. Lau: Right? I never leave. I never really leave work. Anne: Yes. I try to, but you're right. I don't leave either. Although I will say that I do notify my clients ahead of time that I'm going to be on vacation and may not be as responsive, so we have that. But then there are other opportunities that I make sure that I have my travel gear set and ready to go, so. Lau: Well, you're much better than I am. I don't let anyone know. I pretend as if I'm like still -- Anne: As if you're still working? Lau: -- in my studio. And then I'm in some bathroom somewhere in Lennox, Mass during intermission turning my phone on going, yeah. Okay. So you've got a call back and you've gotta get there, and like I have to turn my phone off. I don't know. I'm not getting reception. I'll talk to you in like an hour and a half. Anne: Oh my God. I love it. Lau: . Anne: So funny. Lau: But you know what? It's our lifestyle businesses, right? Anne: It is. Lau: BOSSes know that's the lifestyle that we live. It's not just a nine to five. It's really what we love, what we do, all the time. Anne: Yeah, yeah. As long as there's a balance. Now speaking of superpowers, I wanted to bring up something this week because as you know, I coach my students, and frequently, and I know that you also are dealing with multiple students as well and people on your roster -- I wanna know if you get this as much as I do. I don't like my voice. I just don't like my voice. And I thought to myself, you know, that's so common actually. I hear that a lot from my students, especially my female students actually that they don't like their voice. And I thought it would be a really interesting discussion to talk about the psychology behind that. And why do you think it is that people don't like their voice? Lau: Gosh, I don't think your podcast is even close to long enough to even answer that. I mean, it could take centuries to answer that. I don't know. I think there's a lot of reasons why. I think first that always comes to my mind is that thing of which got really hot, really, really hot, I'd say in the last couple years, the imposter syndrome became hot and known. It was this unknown thing that really women suffered from, primarily women suffered from. And it was, I think the first one that brought it, believe it or not, that brought it out was Joan Rivers, the comedian Joan Rivers put it in her routine. And then Harvard university said, wait a second. Is that a real thing? Let's do studies on it. And then they spent 10 or 15 years doing studies on people who get hit with it. Right? Anne: Well, I think it's absolutely always been a real thing. It just hasn't been talked about, right? Lau: Yes. Oh, very real. Anne: I'm the first person to admit that imposter syndrome hits me still every day. And I always try to turn it around into a good thing where if you have imposter syndrome, it's motivating you to continually grow and excel. But this thing about voices, I'm gonna say, myself, I even went through it myself so that I can identify when a student comes to me and says, ugh, I just don't like my voice. But I always say, remember in the first place, a lot of times, the reason people get into this industry is because someone has said to them that they have a nice voice and that maybe they should consider voiceover as a career. And I've had people that told me that in the beginning, but after I started studying and started really pursuing it as a career and getting work and then falling into the, oh my gosh, am I ever gonna get hired, that kind of a confidence -- oh my God, I must not be good enough, and that imposter syndrome that really kind of hit me, I started to really criticize my voice. And I used to listen to my voice and say, what doesn't sound -- I wanna sound like this person. I want that rasp. My voice does not have a rasp. It just doesn't. And no matter how hard I try to physically create a rasp, it's difficult and it could hurt my vocal cords. So I gave up doing that, but I gave up kind of coveting other people's voices and really started to understand that my voice needed to be embraced, number one, because how would I ever sell my voice if I couldn't embrace it? And the other thing is I think that maybe people spend too much time listening to the sound of their voice, and that I feel might be the biggest barrier to acceptance because, should we really be listening to our voices in terms of technically, how does it sound? I think really as voice actors, right, Lau, you know what I'm gonna say? Right? As actors, we need to be acting and the concentration should not be on how we sound. Lau: That's right. And I know when I record myself, I can't appreciate hearing myself as I'm recording. I oftentimes will not even wear the cans. I won't even wear the headphones because I want to concentrate on the true connection of what I'm doing here. And if I'm hearing myself -- and I was never an air prompter person anyway, so I, I was never in that realm of having to be proficient at hearing myself as I'm delivering language. So I always deliver with headphones off, and I, I suggest to clients, at least for the beginning phase, don't put 'em on because I want you to make an authentic connection in what you're saying and who you're saying it to, who you're speaking to. And that's, you know, acting basics, right? 101. Anne: Sure. Sure. Lau: But I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of, Anne, talking about I'm not good enough. I won't be accepted. I'm not reaching it. Anne: I don't sound good enough. There's always that. Lau: I think that that's so primal. Anne: Does my voice have what it takes to deliver? No, it's not about your voice. It's about you. Lau: It's about, you. Anne: It's about you. You know what I mean? It's about you and your personality and what it brings to that voice. And I'm, I'm just gonna say about the headphones. Now, when I first began, I was in a construction zone, and I had to wear headphones in my booth to make sure that there were no low vibratory sounds that were coming through. So I totally understand what you're saying about taking the headphones off. But I feel that in all honesty, right, if we have the headphones off, we can still sometimes listen to ourselves. You know what I mean? We're still like, these are amplifying everything that we're saying. So for headphones I'm of the nature that yes, whatever works for people to not be distracted by their own sound. I think that if you're a true actor, you can act with headphones on and with headphones off, so. Lau: Of course, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's really how you train. Anne: It's helpful. Lau: Yeah. How you train yourself, what technique you build, that's repeatable for you that doesn't distract you away from what you're trying to do. And I always say to a client, I say it's ridiculous in the sense that if you went to Kraft macaroni, or you went to Nike shoes or you went to Toyota, would they honestly be thinking -- they meaning the advertising company, the people who are creating and producing scripts -- would they honestly be thinking right now as I deliver this to you, this sucks? Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: They may talk about it at their wine party, up in Aspen over the weekend that they don't like the product, but in the moment of pitching it, in the moment of selling it in the moment of connecting to the end user, it is the best thing in the world. Not only is it the best, you can't live without it. You really can't. Anne: Absolutely. Lau: And there's some sort of disconnect between the product, that physical inanimate object, that and us, our identity, our physical person, our vocal sound. There's a disconnect that we then become part of that product. We become part of that branding. And so for us to say, I don't know if I'm doing this well, I don't know if I'm good enough. I don't know if, what is in essence saying the product isn't good enough. Anne: Isn't good enough. Lau: The product is subpar, and that's a danger zone for us. We have to be very careful of that because we sell value. We don't wanna sell devalue. We don't wanna devalue our value, and whatever you do privately is something else. Anne: Sure. No, I love how you brought it to the product. Because in reality, remember we are the voice of the product. We are the voice of the company. And no matter what you're doing, even if you're doing, I'm just saying, if you're doing corporate narration, if you're doing explainers, again, you're still working with a product. And if you're not doing that, let's say if you're doing anything else, if you're teaching, right, you're teaching more than likely, right, you become a teacher. And you are teaching either about some product or maybe a concept. And so again, you don't wanna devalue the content that you are speaking of. Lau: Exactly. Anne: And that's such a wonderful example that you brought up. I'm so glad you said that. Lau: Thank you. And you it's interesting, Anne, it seems to be unique to us and our profession, us meaning talent. It seems to be unique quality that we see in many, many people that we don't see quite as much in other industries and other professions. It would be like, ask yourself this, if you do this, if you do this, ask yourself this. Would you appreciate going to a doctor's office? And the doctor comes in and says, I don't know if I know how to listen to your heart. I mean, I, I, I don't know if I'm gonna do it well enough. I mean, what do you think? And you'd be freaked out. You'd go running outta that office. You'd go, I don't want this woman or guy touching me. I -- Anne: Yeah, yeah. Lau: Right? If you went to a dentist, and you had to have your tooth drill, like, I don't know if I can, I don't know if you'll like what I do. I'm not sure. I mean, it sounds funny to us, right? Anne: I might make you hurt . Lau: Right? Anne: But you're right. It's so true. Lau: And it doesn't mean either that they're qualified, and it doesn't mean either they're the best at what they do. It just means it is innate within their training, within their experience, within their identity, that this is what they do. This is the product they offer, the value they offer. You're gonna pay for that service and it's as simple as that. Hopefully you won't complain about it. . Right? Anne: Absolutely. Lau: But it's so unique unto us is to take it so personalized and to say, but do you approve of me, but do you like me? So going back to your original question a half an hour ago, like what is the psychology of this whole thing? I think it does really start with us as a human being, as a person. Like where is our self-esteem? Where is our level of confidence? Do we feel good in our own skin? Do we feel ashamed or humiliated in honest connection? I mean, ask yourself these questions as a human being in the world and then try to work with it. If the answer is yes, I have a struggle with this, I have a problem with this, then work with it. Don't work against it. Don't shove it under the rug because it's gonna come out out in your next audition. It's gonna come out in your next reach out. Anne: And I think, honestly, it's again, I love how you just brought it down to that level, but it's also remember you're honoring the copy. The copy has been crafted by someone who has put a lot of thought into it, for the most part we think, right? And that there is a message that needs to be delivered. And you need to communicate that message effectively. Now Lau, when we talk back and forth, I'm certainly not thinking to myself, do I sound okay when I talk to Lau? Lau: It's funny to think that, isn't it? Anne: Right? Does my voice sound -- maybe I should talk to Lau like this. And no, because that just, it's not bringing ourselves. It's not bringing who we are, and you know, we say it over and over again. Bring yourself to the party. Right? Well, your voice and yourself, your voice is not mutually exclusive from yourself. The way you're treating it, if you're listening to it saying it does not sound good enough, then that's what you are essentially doing. You are splitting apart the voice from who you are. And I think ultimately, yeah, you have to be the one that can bring yourself to the party. When we connect as human beings, that's what I care about. I don't care, Lau, when you talk to me, what you sound like, I care about what you're saying to me and what it means to me. And I think by trying to just bring it back onto ourselves where most people might think it's an insecurity thing -- in reality, when you think too much about how you sound, it becomes more of a vanity thing or an egotistical thing, where you're not thinking about the client. You're not thinking about the product or the copy that you should be honoring. You are thinking more about what you sound like on top of that copy. And that's not where your voice needs to be. Your voice needs to be in the act, in the action of delivering that copy to the best of your ability and the most effectively on behalf of that client. Lau: I mean, at the end of the day, it's all about the messaging. We use the fancy schmancy term story and storytelling, but storytelling is about the messenger. What message is being delivered? And what is that stake here? What is the value to the audience of that message? Is it gonna fix their life, fix their health? You know, help them find a pet, and, and help them educate their child, or have a better quality health regimen? It's always something in there for the end user that will potentially better their life. Now I'm not saying that that is, that's not a truism. It doesn't actually do it all the time. I'm saying that that's the claim that is being made in the message. And if you lose the message, you lose the claim. And that is a problem. That can be a real problem. Anne: You say the word value, and that is so important. The value to the client. It's not your value. It's the value that you are bringing to the client. So it goes from a place of how can I help you, the client, not how can I sound beautiful when I say these words? It's how can I help you? And the place has to come from within you and not from just the lips and outward because sometimes when we're listening to what we sound like, that's all we can concentrate on. Lau: Exactly. Anne: And there's no story, there's no message. There's no emotion. There's no point of view. Lau: Exactly. And you brought up a great point there. You know, a number of the roles -- I call it roles, theatrical roles -- but a number of the, the voicing parts that we see in scripts now are not always clean, what we call clean or polished. Sometimes they're dirty sounding. Sometimes they're heavy sounding. Sometimes they're sad. There's a lot of doleful scripts. We see a lot of heavily poetic and weighted scripts about things that are thoughtful or lugubrious, or, you know, you've gotta hit a lot of different kinds of feelings and tones now in scripts that are not always pretty. They're not always perfect. And they're not always lovely sounding. Sometimes they're gritty and gravely and that kind of thing. So that to me reflects life as well. We don't always sound good in life. We don't always -- Anne: Imperfect. Lau: -- say the right thing. Yeah. We're not always PC or whatever. We're just not always right. So the idea of wanting to fix myself all the time, I need to be right. I can't be wrong. Did I get it right, is wrong because there is no right. It's really just according to the vision of the listener, who the listener is and what the messaging is that gives them the value that they're looking for. Anne: Yeah. Imperfect is actually perfect. Lau: It is. Anne: I really believe that. And I think because that connects to people on a very raw and real level, and that's where you get a lot of the casting specs say, make it conversational, make it natural as if you're talking to your friends, make it real. And that is probably the hardest thing for us to do as voice actors. And I think we spend our careers honing that skill of being a better actor and being more real and authentic. And like you said, their scripts are all over the place. Sometimes they're sad and doleful, and we need to be able to be in that moment and create those scenes and react to those scenes. And that is not always a pretty sound. I think one of my favorite corporate narrations that I always play from when I'm presenting corporate narration is a voice actress who, her voice cracks. And it's not a perfect sound. And I think a lot of my students, they feel like they have to be articulate, and I'm like, we're not articulate in the real world. As long as you can understand what I'm saying, contrary to popular belief, you do not need to be articulate because when you're too articulate, then it becomes something that is difficult to listen to. Lau: That's exactly right. And this idea of perfection and this idea of polished is just not where we wanna go oftentimes. It just, in fact, it's the anti that now, it's the opposite of that now. It's like, what's our largest generation now? Our largest generation is millennials in the United States. And so we wanna emulate the demographic to get an empathy factor that, oh, this is me. This sounds like me. This person feels the way I feel. They understand me. Well, I can't sound like that in order to get that feeling, right? It's a more colloquial, more chill, more like laid back, kind of feel to it. And that's hard. I think for the over 40 crowd, like my generation generation Xeer, it's really hard to say, wait a second. What happened to all of our theater acting background? What happened to all of our speech and rhetoric? What happened to, well, it's there, you have to trust it's there, but it's not always applicable to what we're doing in the script. You know what I like to do? Anne, I like to say, change the word conversational and natural, which is throws people oftentimes -- change it to environmental, change it to contextual, because we wanna hear you being somewhere. We wanna hear you involved in something. Anne: Oh I agree with that. Lau: It's not like sound this way. . Anne: Sure. And besides that, I'm always adding in, I wanna hear movement. I wanna hear movement in the scene. It's not you in a monologue. There's so many people that will do the work and say, okay, I'm Anne, I'm talking to my friend Lau, and we're in the kitchen. And they do all that setup work. And then all they do is read the words. And it becomes a monologue to them. Even if they start off talking to Lau, right, they tend to go off, and then they're speaking into the air. And I'm like, if you were on a stage and you were interacting with someone, like you should be with the listener, right, interacting, you would not be necessarily going off on a monologue, 'cause that would be impolite, right? You know, you need to let them in on the conversation. You need to check in on them once in a while. And also when you do that, if you can move in the scene, that makes your audition or your read a whole lot more impactful, I think, than just standing in the same place. Because on a stage you wouldn't stand in the same place typically for too long, right? You'd have some movement. And so that translates to so many things. Right? In the middle of the script, stop and take a look. And where are you? What happened in the scene? Did it change? Did you stand up? Did you walk across the room? Did you look at Lau and see if Lau is shaking her head in agreement or does she have a question? And so I think if you can really set those scenes up, even in something that is written very like dry, and I see this all the time in, in narration scripts, you wanna make sure that that's a more engaging script. You wanna bring that script to life. Well, how are you gonna do that when you're just standing there in the same spot and the energy is only coming out of your lips? Lau: Exactly. It's unnatural. Anne: It's unnatural. We need energy in our hands and our body movement in the scene changes. That I think is just, is so important to bring that to life. Lau: It's, it's so important. And for those folks who are listening in, who have actor training and have trained under the discipline of Sanford Meisner, Meisner's work was based in the concept that all we're asking you to do is act natural under purely unnatural circumstances. So it's, it's really okay. I'm tricking my brain into thinking this is real, even though I know it's not real, whether you're in a theater or a vocal booth or in front of a camera, it couldn't be further from real. Right? But there has to be a piece of you psychologically that stays alive that says I am doing the kind of work that I'm trained to do, that I want to be doing, that I'm enjoying doing. And I give myself permission to fall, to jump, to fail, to make mistakes, to do what real people do in real time. This idea of like, oh, I shouldn't mess up, I shouldn't make a mistake, I should get it right the first or second time -- it's not a natural way to think because natural terms in nature is real time for us. And in real time, we make tons of mistakes and stammer and we stutter and we forget information. Right? Anyone who loves SNL, love that show loved it because of all the mistakes they made. Anne: Those were the funniest. Lau: They were the funniest. Anne: Those were the funniest. Lau: They were hilarious. Right? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: It's like, you know, we always say, how do you determine the difference between an amateur and a professional? And it's easy. They both make mistakes and quite oftentimes a lot, but the amateur will fall apart. They'll melt down. They won't be able to function. The professional will do a little this and a little of that. Sorry about that. And then move on and use it, use it. Anne: People are so forgiving. They really are. And again, like I said, if all you're thinking about is what you're sounding like and having that perfect voice, and then scrutinizing and, and hating yourself because you don't sound a particular way, think again. Because I was on stage too a long time ago, but also when I used to teach in front of students, right, I would get so excited -- like I was always told that I was a great teacher because I was so excited about the stuff that I was saying. Right? I was passionate. I was enthusiastic. I wanted to share. And that was what made me a good teacher. And I oftentimes would stand up in front of the class. My brain would be going 100 miles an hour, but what came outta my mouth would be gobbledygook sometimes. But they forgave me. I did not speak perfectly. Sometimes I like, oh, wait a minute. I forgot something. So imperfect. I had students who were so much more aligned with me and who really listened to me because I was imperfect. And I was able to admit that and be honest with them. And I never once tried to say, oh, I know more than you. I just wanted to inspire and motivate. Lau: Right. Right. Anne: And that is something I take behind the mic with me. No matter what genre I'm doing specifically though, e-learning, absolutely. I give my heart. Because that is, that is what people connect with. Lau: Yes, absolutely. Anne: But I cannot afford to listen to what I sound like. Or even if I go there a little bit when I'm editing -- so sometimes when I edit, yeah. I get a little tired of my voice. But then again, that's listening to myself and being nitpicking to get rid of breaths and stuff like that. And then it's just becomes tiring because I've been doing it for three hours. So that's different than not liking the way your voice sounds. And so I think you have to just have faith in the fact that you are in this industry, people are hiring you and paying you money for your voice. And that is giving you the validation that, you know what, you're probably doing a pretty good job. Otherwise you may not make any money. You not be able to do that. So. Lau: If you're not being invited back, and you have no bookings, and no one's working with you, then you'll say, oh, I have to evaluate this, what's going on. But you know, you have to psychologically be okay with living in the world of imperfection. You have to live -- certainly in the technical world. It's a tech glitch a minute. You have to be okay with living in the world of mistakes and the mar, the scar. Like the scar makes us interesting. Like, I don't want you to cover it up. I don't want you to laser it off. I don't want you to Photoshop it. I wanna see it. It's interesting to me. It's like your experience, you know? Anne: It's that whole filter thing that's going on now, right? In social media, like are you prettier with the filter or without the filter? Guess what? You're pretty without the filter, you're pretty just as you are. Lau: And you have to measure, you have to see, how am I measuring pretty? Like, what is my measurement for that? How deep do I go with that layer? And I'd like to think as we age and we get a little older and more experienced, we go deeper, deeper, deeper below the surface of the skin. We go like really deep and say, wow. There's a lot of beauty in there that I can bring out that is not aesthetically beautiful. But that, like, I go back to Shakespeare, 'cause I think Shakespeare is everything, and the characters, especially the female characters, but the male characters as well, some of them are really dirty and gritty and ugly and -- but you can't play them until like you're 40 and you understand a little bit about life. You understand a little bit about the grit of experience. Maybe God forbid, you've lost a child. Maybe you've gotten divorced. Maybe you've lost money and then gotten money back. Like these things really can become beautiful lessons and stories in our life that we can share and message versus hide and cover. And I like to think of scripts and copy in that way. It's like, if you're a mom or you took time off, let's say you took 20 years off and you're coming back, don't hide who you are. Don't hide your history. Bring your history to the table 'cause psychologically that's gonna give you a more authentic read in what you're doing potentially. Anne: Yeah. And I'm also gonna say not to give the read that you think people expect of you. Again, what makes us interesting is our imperfections and our flaws. And so I highly, highly encourage and, and recommend BOSSes that you look beyond, like you were saying, beyond the surface, hashtag no filter. Right guys? Like we want those reads. We want those reads that are real and raw and don't have the pretty sound filter put on there. We should have a, a hashtag for that in social media for voiceover, hashtag no pretty voice or -- Lau: That's -- I love that. Anne: You know what I mean? Lau: I love that. And check, we do checks all the time. Check your psychology at the door. Check it. Like not over-analyze. You know, analysis can be paralysis, but, but really check it like, am I okay with not being perfect? And am I also okay with -- oh, here's another one, Anne. Not thinking I'm perfect. Because we don't wanna work with people that are so vain and so arrogant. And so like I did my takes. I'm all done. And if you don't like it, it's too bad. I wanna work with someone who they're 50, 60, 70, 80 years old. And they're like, I'm learning still. I'm exploring. I wanna develop. Can you share something with me? I'm not like done. I'm not finished. I'm not like a final product myself. You know, I'm a work in progress. Anne: Yeah, yeah. I don't think any of us really should think that way anyway. No matter what stage we're at. Right? Always something to learn. Lau: Well, I think it always stops you. It stops your progress and what you could potentially learn and become when you just think that you have it all. You got it all down pat and it's polished and you know it. And that's a big question I get too in coaching, Anne, is like, should I go after this, Lau? Should I go after that? And I said, well, I don't know if you should go after it. Ask yourself the question authentically. How do you feel about it? How are you connecting with it? Where is your voice right now? I mean, I think you're asking the wrong question. I think the questions are really, how do I wanna develop my vocabulary right of knowledge? Anne: How should I go after this? Or let's make a plan to go after this. And I think if the desire is there, hey, it's all part of the journey too. I'm a firm believer that, you know what? I would say to myself, well, I've never gone after animation because I don't know, for me right now, the passion is not necessarily in characters. But I'll tell you what, I'm a character in everything that I do. And I'm a character in medical narration. I am a character in corporate narration. I'm a character in commercial, and it just may not be as animated or cartoon-like, but absolutely we are all actors. We are all characters. Lau: And these days, you know in character work a lot of times, you know, in some of the largest scripts that we see coming through for Pixar and Disney -- Anne: It's real. Lau: They just want real sounds. They want real VO. They don't even want character voices. They make a big note in bold, no character voices. And they said like the leads, these are the leads because we had, you know, A-List Hollywood actors playing these leads. So we wanted to hear who Ray Romano really is, who Tom Cruz really is, who Queen Latifah really is. So that's kind of trickled down, I think in a nice way to the larger population where character now means like, well, who are you? What's the authentic sound you make? That we -- we'll consider that a character. Anne: Absolutely. I love this conversation. Lau: It's inspiring. It really is. Anne: So BOSSes out there, love your voice. Embrace it. Be real. Absolutely. All right. So Lau, I am so excited we had this conversation. I can't wait to have another conversation with you next week. So BOSSes out there, if you would like to make an impact and contribute to the communities that give back to you, find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And also a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. I love ipDTL. It allows me and Lau to connect with you. BOSSes out there, find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, guys, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Auditions can be as nerve wracking as a performance, but the best way to come out on top is to be prepared. Anne & Lau are audition experts. When you break it down, an audition is a sample of your performance, and bosses, we know you know how to perform! The best way to start an audition is with copy you feel confident reading and that showcases your acting chops. Making genuine connections with the other actors in the space and casting directors is what keeps you on their mind long after the read ends. Confidence goes a long way in audition settings. Do not shy away from live auditions, and having your 10 favorite scripts on hand will make the impromptu auditions feel more manageable. Want to learn more? Tune in for the full scoop… Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to bring back the one and only Lau Lapides to the show. Thank you, Lau, for joining me. I'm so excited to talk to you today. Lau: I'm thrilled to be here as always, thrilled to be here, Anne. Anne: Well, Lau, it's been a week. Lau: And I feel like it's been a month with how much our -- how busy our lives are, right, Anne? Anne: I know, right? Lau: I mean, it's like so much. Anne: But this week you were a part of me besides the podcast, besides the podcast. So I'm very excited to be working with you as an agent. And so you did something that I have never experienced before. You called me into a last minute audition. And I said, oh, okay. I didn't have any script. You called me into a Zoom room. And I was like, okay, is that gonna just be me and the casting director? Oh, that's so lovely for Lau to think of me like that. I'm really excited. Okay. Sure. So I joined the Zoom session and there were like, whoa, quite a few people on there. And I didn't have a script. I didn't know what was gonna go on, what was happening. Let's talk about this audition that you called me into and your process for these things. Lau: You were such a good sport. 'Cause you could have said no, I know it's not in your vocabulary to say no, but -- Anne: It's so true. Lau: -- you could have. It would've been totally fine if you said no, but I was really pleasantly surprised to see that not only you, but everyone in that room said yes to coming in the room. Now I'll set it up for you since today we're talking about auditions. This was a little bit, I would call it unorthodox. It was a little bit unorthodox the way we set this up, but that's kind of my middle name and I'm alright with that. I go with that 'cause I like to have a little fire, a little fire in life. So the premise of this audition was that our friend and producer coming in from Switzerland, Lamar Hawkings -- amazing man, amazing, who is very, very close friends with my colleague Joanne Yarrow that I work with at my studio -- invited him in to say, hey, you are doing amazing projects. I mean my friend, Joanne -- who I have to introduce you to, she's fabulous -- she's the voice now the American voice, of La Occitane campaign that he handles. And so I'll send you that. It's awesome. So I'm like, Ooh, we have a wonderful agency, MCVO. We have a wonderful membership base at the studio, talent inner circle. Why don't I invite some of our really great people with great voices to come in and do a private audition for Lamar? And he was completely up for it. He said, I would love that, Lau. I'm looking for new talent. I'm doing a new animation soon. I'm doing commercial campaigns. I'm doing this. And that. He's very, very busy. He's in Switzerland, but he's actually from the states, originally from Texas. And I said, great, let's do it. So we set it up for yesterday. Now here's the thing. A bunch of the people knew that the audition were coming because they were in the studio base, the talent inner circle studio base and had RSVPed that, yes, I want to attend this. I'm able to, I've been screened. I'm accepted in, and I'm coming in. Great. But then I had a number of open slots that I said, I've got to get more MCVO people knowing about this and coming in because this is a legit audition, and it's a live audition. It's something I really love to do and love to host. Anne: That was so different for me. I mean, I felt like I traveled into LA and went to an in-person audition again almost. Lau: Exactly. That's exactly what happened. And fun fact from the background, 'cause no one ever sees what's going on in the background, I was on vacation. I was up in the Berkshires. Like literally I'm at lunch with my husband, and I'm texting like a wild woman. He said, what are you doing? I said, you know, I'm working. It's always a work vacation for me, a workcation. I said, I'm getting more talent to come in and know about this audition, who don't know, from MCVO, and I'm texting you, and I'm texting Jay Michael Collins, and I'm texting Terrell, and I'm texting Carol, and I'm texting this one, and I'm texting Mike Pollock. And all of a sudden, all these people are saying yes and jumping in, and I didn't even have time to tell them what it was. I didn't even have time to say anything. Anne: That was absolutely the thing. And I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. And I'll admit to you, BOSSes out there, I got in the room and I didn't have copy. And I thought, am I missing something? And thank goodness that Lau, you gave me a little bit of information and said grab some commercial copy or we have some. When I got in there, I didn't see it. Maybe it was there and I just didn't know where to look. So I got off and I thought, oh, well that must look horrible. . Lau: No, not at all. Anne: I went to go grab copy. And then I came back in and then it was like, what two people left to go? So I made it just in time. Lau: And then Carol Alfred, who is facilitating, right, one of our coaches, she's texting me, ah, Anne Ganguzza is on. And then she goes, she left. What she left? Where'd she go? And I'm like, Anne, where are you? I thought maybe you were having a technical issue or you had to go and do something. Anne: I went to go find some copy because I didn't wanna be called on and then say, I don't have copy. You know what I mean? So I went to go grab some. Lau: Right. And now, you know, very rarely when we do this kind of audition, we always have copy on hand for cold reads. I know some talent don't prefer to do a cold read. So we say, we'll bring something you wanna bring that shows you off, but. Anne: I was ice cold I was ice cold, but I said to myself, okay -- and BOSSes, listen, when your agent asks you to come in and audition, it's a sign that they believe in you, number one. And that they would not have asked you to come into an audition if they did not feel that you were worthy of doing an audition. And there was no way that I was going to disappoint my agent. Lau: Oh, and I appreciated that so much. And some of the others that came in, it was hilarious. I'm gonna save some of the texts that were like, hey Lau. Uh, that was great. What was that? Where was it? Anne: Yeah, exactly. What just happened? Lau: What happened? It was, you were like, you were in some matrix. There was, there was some vortex that came through like a storm, but I gotta tell you, and this is good for your listeners to hear, every single person who came in that thought they were unprepared or didn't have copy or weren't sure what they were doing did a fantastic job. And it just reminded me what pros we all are when we get in a room. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: We have passion. We love what we're doing. There's this super connected quality of being in a room with other talent, 'cause that's unexpected as well to be in a room with other talent like that. Anne: I was gonna say absolutely. One of the other things was, oh my God. And everybody else is listening to me. It's not just the agent, the casting director. It is like 50 people in the room. I don't know how many people were in the room, but there were more than one. There was quite a few people listening. And I happened to just come in really quickly with J. Michael Collins who was reading. And then that's when I said, I don't have that copy. And so I skedaddled outta there. And fortunately you had said, just grab any copy. And I said, okay. So I went and I grabbed some copy and it was, my read was ice cold. But again, like I said, BOSSe so important to know that when your agent gives you an audition, it's because they have the faith in you that you're gonna be able to execute. And I think that that is the one thing that really saved me. And I will admit to you, BOSSes, when you're thrown into a situation like that and you're not quite sure what's happening, you're kind of running on adrenaline, and it's a little scary, I'm just gonna say, not knowing what's happening. But I think it was a wonderful lesson for me, even as long as I've been in this industry, just to trust in your agent, trust in yourself, have faith in the process and just go forth and execute. And what's the worst that can happen? I mean, well, I thought of a billion things like, I was like, when I was done, I was like, I'm not quite sure how that went, but he said, nice job. So I'm okay with that. Lau: Yeah. And I gotta tell you, Anne, that enabled me to what I debrief with him -- we're debriefing on Tuesday -- I can now go down the list and say, do you remember this person? You remember this? You had a visual, not only in sound, you had a visual. You had more than one read on a lot of people as well. you had a character read, you had a commercial read, this, that. And to be able to really discuss the performances for particular projects that he's working on -- so it's never just like this one hit wonder and go. It's always like, Ooh, I like the quality of this person, that person. Can I call them back? And I see, hear their demo? Can I, whatever; it's just like an introduction to you. Anne: And that I think is brilliant in reality, because like you have introduced your roster to a potential client and the visual, yes. Now, you know, of course I'm sure there's a bunch of people in their studios going, well, this is an audition over Zoom. And then the engineers in there will be going, I don't know if Zoom is the best quality, but honestly I think that any good casting director is gonna know from your performance, whether it's in your studio or through Zoom or whatever, they're gonna understand. And they're gonna know a good performance when they see one. Lau: Absolutely. And this particular producer, from what I know of his background, well, he has a very rich history of live performance and theater and media. Anne: And that aligns with it. Lau: He gets it. He gets that, because I had people who were in cars and bathrooms, in their workstation. They were, I mean they were coming in from everywhere. So his business brain, I'm sure was saying, oh, they're busy people. They're not just sitting in a spot waiting for me. They're working, they're running, they're traveling, they're on vacation. They're this or that. I'm thankful that they took the time to come in so I could see their work for projects. Anne: And that means a lot too, I'm quite sure. And especially again, like we're always trying to make in auditions -- and I love this episode because this is becoming so much more than just a normal audition type of episode, where we give you the tips and the tricks -- because the experience of this one was so different, and it really, I think can teach us how to make ourselves memorable in a multitude of ways, not just knowing the conditions, right, of the audition. Number one, you called us in cold or you called certain people in cold, and that can resonate well with whoever's listening for that potential client. And also again, there's that visual, and it is like the in person auditions that -- God, I used to go in and it was great. I'd see everybody in the lobby. Now the difference is that I would audition in front of just, you know, it was just me. And it wouldn't be everybody else listening to my auditions. So that added a whole other level to -- it was almost like a workshop. But in reality, if you tend to get nervous in these experiences that could even potentially make you more nervous. So again, having the ability and the privilege to be able to make that kind of impression on a potential client, I think is wonderful. And Lau, you're one of the few people I know that do this. And so I think it's a wonderful thing, even though I had no idea what it was when I was doing it, but , but now I know. Lau: Do we ever, right? Anne: But now I know. Lau: Therein lies the educational value when we talk about professional development is it really one audition or is it as you called it, Anne, an opportunity to build a relationship with a wonderful producer, who's gonna have a lifetime of stuff. That's I think it's the latter, really. It's never just one audition for one thing. It's always like, hey, you're cool. You're a cool, dude. You're a cool dudette. I like you. Right? I like your vibe. And that's where if I were to say to your listeners and also to my audience that came in, many of which were coming in from the studio membership, we're at different stages of the game. I would say one of the things I want you to really consider and remember is that when a producer meets you live, they wanna see a little bit of who you are. They wanna catch your personality and your energy and your persona a little bit. So especially him, especially Lamar. So don't be afraid -- you don't wanna take up a ton of time, but don't be afraid to just chill a little bit and have a little bit of that conversational feel to what you're doing, because you're really meeting a real person in real time. It's a great opportunity for them to know a little piece of your actual personality versus I'm just a voiceover talent and here's my read. No, I'm Anne, I'm Lau. I'm J, and this is what I'm doing and I'm, I'm traveling and I'm whatever, that's cool. People like that. It's the goal of how do I make you feel? Am I gonna make you feel comfortable or am I gonna make you feel uncomfortable? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I like the fact that you had the ability for everyone to kind of listen to everybody else's auditions. I, at the time though, because I was hunting down copy, and then I literally had another session that was coming up like after five minutes, I couldn't stay for a long time, but what I did stay for, I really enjoyed. And I heard people doing all different types of copy, and I thought, wow, this is really kind of cool. It felt to me like a combination of a showcase and an audition, an in-person audition. Lau: That's what it turned into that's and if you want to, I'm happy to send you the replay because we record those sessions and we hold those for archival purposes. If you want it -- Anne: That's wonderful. Lau: -- you could do the whole thing. It lasted about, I wanna say two hours, like a solid two hours. Anne: Wow. Lau: And we had a rotation of people coming in and out, which was amazing. I think we landed on about 30 people with the folks -- Anne: That's fantastic. Lau: -- who couldn't come, couldn't make it, no showed, new people jumping in, 30, like yourself, some of the country's top talent were there. And I was like, oh my God. We were like representing the country's top talent. I was so proud, so proud of everyone and not just the talent for what they delivered, but the kind of people that came in the room and were kind to him. No one pulled a fit. No one was a diva. No one was making excuses. That's all stuff, when we talk about auditioning, that you wanna steer clear of is like rule number one, I didn't wanna land my problems onto you. Anne: Sure. Absolutely. Lau: Anyone who's had theater training knows that they teach you in conservatory, leave your trash at the door, right? Don't take it into the workspace. Don't worry. It'll be there when you leave; you can take it with you when you go out, you know, but try not to bring your stuff in with you because you wanna come in as an open slate, a pallet of possibilities. You know, we had talked about solving a problem, filling a need, but it's more than that. It's like, does this person have likability factor? Anne: Sure, sure, absolutely. Lau: You know, would I wanna hang out with them? Anne: And you know, what's so interesting is one of the reasons a lot of people get into voiceover is because they wanna almost like hide behind the microphone and not necessarily show who they are or show their face. And so this kind of just threw that on its side. Lau: And that was great. Anne: Yeah. And that again gives such a good impression, I think, just gives it a whole different dimension to the audition so it's not just the voice, but also the, the person and the personality. And I'm the biggest fan of -- look, people wanna connect with people and not just a logo or a voice. And I really feel that that is, is effective in our profession, that if we can connect with our clients as people, that really, really does a lot to, I think, really secure and, and enhance and, and make us memorable to one another. Lau: It's huge, Anne. I'm so glad you brought that up, the visibility factor, because I could have easily said, hey, take your visuals out. All I need to see is your name or your picture, whatever. Just voiceover's fine. Get people off the hook so they don't have to put on the makeup and the lipstick, but I didn't want that. I wanted them to have the ability, and many of them wanted to come on to be seen as people, and also to see the diversity of our crowd, like our people were coming in literally from all over the world, and everyone had a different look, a different age, a different feel, a different background. I think that's important in terms of having cultivating a community that is both educational and professional level. I just think it enriched everyone else to see the level of talent that was there, that the bar was very high. Age range ranged from like teens to probably 70, and every kind of background. And I think that's very inspirational for people to feel like I'm included. This is inclusive. Like I don't have to sound or look or be someone else. I'm me. And that's who I am. Anne: Right. Correct. Lau: And I think everyone did a fairly accurate job as to their brand, their quality because they felt as comfortable as they could feel in a room full of great people. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well that was it too. I mean, the fact is, is that I think it was a wonderful experience. Even if let's say I never get cast, the fact that I had the experience for just introducing myself to a potential client in this way has given me more, I'm gonna say confidence and really more confidence in terms of, well, auditions can be anything. Right? Be prepared. It's almost like, oh, I did a quick improv session there. So, you know? Lau: Exactly. And I think, I think COVID changed it to some degree where you don't have to be in an office. You don't have to be in someone else's studio. Your studio is the world now. It's really the world. You could be in your car. You could be in a bathroom. You could be anywhere potentially meeting someone, recording, whatever, the possibilities are endless. It takes me back to even before COVID, Anne, when, when we saw interviews like corporate interviews start to happen in Starbucks. That was one of the big coffee shops that I hear someone behind me, oh, they're having an interview. I'm gonna be quiet. That was a new thing. I don't know when that started. I wanna say maybe 10 years ago or something, that was a new industry standard that you didn't need to be in an office to have an interview. You could have an interview at Starbucks, and it's now kind of the same for us. Like we could do an audition anywhere. We could be in the mountains and do an audition, which is exciting to me. Anne: Yeah. I really love the additional opportunity to connect. So let me ask you a question then. So this is not the first one that you've done or is it the first one that you've done, first audition like this? Lau: Live? Anne: Yeah, live. Lau: In this way? Anne: Yes. Lau: I have done a number of these before. Not recently. This is the first one I've done recently with someone of this caliber in terms of a producer coming in from Europe, someone that I have the inside scoop on who's producing particular campaigns that I'm interested in and animations that I'm interested in for the agency, getting into that genre, that field. And I like it. I mean, I just personally, as Lau, just as a person, I yearn for that improv energy. I yearn for that feeling of like, yeah, let's just meet. All right, a number of people know, they're RSVPing, they're coming in. But then others may not know; they're coming in now. It's like real life. It's like a party, right? You invite your guest list. but then the guests may bring someone, the guests may invite someone else, da, da, da. It's like an authentic experience of what happens in real life when people are coming together, and they're meeting, and they're showcasing their work. So when we talk about showcases, it's not all premeditated ABC. It's like life networking is life. You don't know who you're gonna sit next to on the plane. You don't know who you're gonna be next to in the elevator. You don't -- and I would say, be careful, ladies and gentlemen, when you go in the restrooms, like be careful what you say, be careful what you do because your whole world is your oyster now for meeting producers and producers can also be mom and pop shops, people who are producing their own podcasts, what have you. You wanna always treat everyone respectfully and equally as the stars that they are in their own world, because you may be collaborating and working with them. Anne: Yeah. Good advice. What other tips would you have then in terms of not just this type of audition, but auditions in general that you've seen? Because you certainly are outside the box I think when it comes to the opportunities that you're affording people, which is a wonderful thing. Lau: Thank you so much, thank you. I would say, and, and just thinking back on that experience, some of the things that I would want to change and shift for some of the talent coming through. One is, and this is like an actor's rule, always have material that is great for you, that you love and feel comfortable with ready to go. It's like, whatever you wanna call it, your demo material, your portfolio material, whatever. Have your strong suits ready to go. And it might even be an audition or two that came in last week that you did a great job. It might be a recent booking. You just have to make sure of course you either have permission to use the script or it's in house. It's not gonna be used for commercial purposes. Or just re-craft it enough so that it becomes your own and you know, it's yours. It's good. It's something you feel comfortable doing. It's where your suit lies. I would have that ready to go. And I would have at least a half, a dozen, 30-second pieces ready to go for something live when it happens. It may happen rarely. But when it happens, it happens. Anne: Yeah. That's such good advice because I literally, like I mentioned, I didn't have it. I went and grabbed something that I -- thankfully I have a large pool of copy that, you know, because I work with, with people with copy. So thankfully, and I found something that I was comfortable with. So that's really wonderful advice. Now I'm gonna make sure that I have a few pieces set aside for if that were to happen again, absolutely. Any other tips? Lau: Yeah. And I have another tip too, and this is like the actor in you. So when we talk to VOs, we say, do you consider yourself an actor? Surprisingly many VOs will say, I'm not really an actor. It's not really what I do. I voiced this. That's what I do. I always like to use the word actor because I don't necessarily mean just acting values in the character. I mean, in your life. So like all the world's a stage, right? You're acting like a pro, you're acting like a coach. You're acting like a producer. You're acting in those role like just like an acting chair of a department or, you know, an acting politician, how we would use that term. So you're acting, so don't forget your actor values. What I mean is like some of the folks that came into the room, I noticed they had to let you know that they were in a rush, or they just stole a break, or they barely made it because they couldn't get outta work, whatever. Let that go, like play the role. The role is I'm coming into this session, and I'm totally ready for this session. And I don't know what's going on in the background. There's a bunch of chaos in the background. I don't know what's going on in the background. I'm acting as the professional in this moment, knowing I'm only gonna be here for how however long I'm here. And then I go back to -- remember, I said, leave your stuff at the door? I'm gonna go back to that. That's hard for people to do, Anne. I think that there's this confessional thing in people that they feel the need to tell you the truth about everything. They wanna tell you how difficult their day was or that their tire has gone down. And I barely made it here, and oh my God, my kid and the baby sitter didn't show up. And I always say, leave it at the door because it's not pertinent to the people that are bringing you in. It's just a waste of time, really, for them. You and I talk about energy a lot, karma, like stars aligning. I really do believe in that. I think things happen for a reason. And I don't want you meaning, not you, but the listener, I don't want you guys to ruin your karma by sticking wrenches in it of things that are happening, whether they're your choice or whether they're just happening to you -- don't bring it into the space because it can't do anything positive for your audition or for your exchange in the rapport building. It just can't. It's like an obstacle that you're putting in the way, and you're qualifying something and using it as an excuse. And you don't wanna fall into the victimization compartment. Anne: Sure, absolutely. Lau: You never wanna fall into that. You wanna fall into the place where it's like, hey, I'm gonna bring you what you need. In fact, I could hire you. In fact, I could hire people for you. In fact, I could do this for you. You wanna be that person that they come to to fix the problem. They don't wanna be the person who creates problems that they don't have, If that makes sense. Anne: Oh, that's wonderful advice. Absolutely. Lau: Yeah. So I would leave that. I would leave that outside of the room, and then one more thing. as the tech queens that we are, tech meaning coaching tech, I want that warm up. Some of the folks didn't warm up, and I could tell exactly who they were, who just did not do the vocal warmup because I know the quality of the reads that they could typically do, and they were rushing into it. Whereas others came in, they were already in a session. They were already recording. They were already vocally warmed up. They were ready to go. I could tell the difference. I don't know if you could tell the difference. I could tell the difference. Anne: I could tell the people who were absolutely ready. You know what I mean? And were like, bam, they had their material and they just -- Lau: They were right there. Anne: -- they just executed. Yep. yep. So yep. I could tell. Yeah. Yeah. Lau: So that readiness that's like being on the bench, you know, as a sports player in the game -- Anne: You're ready to go. Lau: -- you're not in the game yet. You're really not there, but you're visible to the crowd. You're on TV. You're getting ready to get selected. And there's that state of readiness that you have to have so when they look at you, it's like, boom, I'm in the game. I'm ready. There is no transition time that you should need to go through. It really should just be there, present, and delivered. And that's hard. It's -- I make it sound easy. It's not it's transitions like executive functioning skill transitions a lot of people find difficult in life, is how do I pivot from this, to this? To this, to this, without any clutter in the middle of it? Anne: Yeah. I do have a question. Something that I thought, just because again, I wasn't there for the entire time, but I did hear people slating, which I think is fine, but people were slating with other talent agencies as well. And I wasn't quite sure about that. I thought why -- you invited me in, so I wasn't gonna necessarily say what other talent agencies were representing me. Oh, okay. So I was really thrown by that one and I thought should I say other talent agencies that represent me when you invited me in so generously and I just said my name? For me, it didn't seem right. But what are your thoughts on that? Lau: Yeah. And, and now, you know, in retrospect, yeah, for this one, there was no right or wrong. It was totally clean, totally open and that would be the protocol, you're right. That would be the actual protocol because there was an educational value to this workshop, I allowed and wanted to people to slate what they have on their plate to have a high ethos, to show a high ethos for themselves. And because we're not exclusive anyway. We're freelance. But I hear you. Anne: Well, because of the invite, it was just, for me, it was like, well, I could say other, and to be honest with you, I just, that threw me. And so I just said my name, 'cause I wanted to be respectful of you who invited me in as an agent. So. Lau: And actually just post, just for listeners to know behind the scenes, 'cause they would never know this or see this, when we have a meeting and we debrief, and we talk about talent behind their backs, in a nice way, I'll make it clear that if he wants to move forward with anyone, he would do it through MCVO. Anne: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Lau: He would. It would be only in the case of like they're not with MCVO. They're exclusive with someone else. I handpick them to come in. Okay. That's fine. Other than that, everyone's with MCVO or in the tick membership. And so I'm like, so we're kind of representing everyone here. So he would use us as the agent and as the liaison to help with the step by step of everything, if he wanted to really call someone back. Anne: Yeah. Then I would say, just my contribution to this episode would be if you are in that position and your live slating and, and auditioning, I would say respectfully with the agent that invited you to that, you should at least have that agency unless it's been otherwise disclosed that you can mention other agencies that you are represented by. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: Just my thoughts on that. Wow. Well, I wanna say thank you, Lau, for that experience. It's always a pleasure learning from you and talking with you every week. So I really appreciate it. It's been a wonderful conversation. Lau: Oh my pleasure. All the time. I can't wait for the next one. Anne: All right. So guys, BOSSes, I want you to take a moment and imagine yourself being a part of making a difference in our world and giving back to the communities that give to you. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. And a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network like BOSSes, like Lau and I, and find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Branding is a form of self-discovery. Your brand is how the world perceives you, but more importantly, how potential voice seekers will perceive you. Anne & Lau want you to put your best foot forward, and that starts with using your name and likeness to let the world know who you really are. Type casting, client feedback, and peer advice can all be tools to build your understanding of how others perceive your brand. But it doesn’t stop there! Look inside yourself to learn your core beliefs. What is it that makes you tick? Externalizing this will strengthen your brand and make it authentic, like you. Sounds challenging? Listen up Bosses, Anne & Lau are here to help… Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza. Welcome to our business superpower series with the one and only Lau Lapides. Hey Lau. Lau: Hey Anne. Anne: How's it going today? Lau: Oh, it's beyond awesome. I'm always thrilled to be on with you. I mean it's, it's -- Anne: Beyond awesome, I love it. Lau: -- can't wait to see what's gonna happen. Anne: I love it. Well, then I've got a question for you. Okay? Lau: Okay. All right. Anne: So this is a question I get asked a lot. So if you had to give three words to describe me, what would those three words be? Either my voice or something that would help to brand me. What would those three words be? Lau: Now, are you talking about let's qualify that, is that within the profession or is that just in general as a person from the short time that we've known each other? Anne: Well, you know what, since it's such a personal brand, like we are personal brands, I think it could be a mix of both if it needs to be. Because I think people wanna connect to the human side of Anne as well as the business side of Anne. Lau: Okay. And by no means is it just these three words, 'cause we could probably come up with you 50 words for you, but we, we only have so much time. So we'll say three for now. Anne: And hopefully they're good words. Lau: Oh. Of course. Okay. So the first one that comes to my mind that I can't dismiss is feisty. Anne: Oh, feisty! Lau: Feisty. Anne: I like feisty. Lau: Feisty always goes with like fun in my mind too, but feisty -- Anne: That's a good word. Thank you. Lau: The second one would be, I wanna say intelligent. I feel it's a little bit bland of a word. I was almost gonna say sophisticated. Anne: Oh, so feisty, intelligent or sophisticated. I'll take those. Lau: Seasoned. Anne: Ooh, seasoned. Lau: Seasoned. Anne: That's awesome. Wow. Lau: And those are three that come to my mind. If you gimme another five minutes, I'll come up with more. But. Anne: I love that. Wow. Lau: And to be perfectly transparent with our listeners, even though I feel like I've known you forever, we really have only been working together like a week. And we only met, when did we meet, a month or two ago? Right? But see, already I got so much perception of your vibe and the way you work and how you're thinking about things. And it's, it's a lot in a very short amount of time. Anne: I love that. So if I have three words for you, and this is funny, cause look, I have not thought about this, BOSSes. I sprung this on Lau like just as you heard it. So she was kind of not anticipating either. So I'm going to say brilliant. That's one for you. And I mean brilliant in not just a sense of like intelligence, but I mean like brilliant, like sparkly. Lau: Oh. Anne: Like in a sparkly way. Lau: Like how you would say about a diamond or something. Anne: Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like brilliant. Lau: Oh thank you. That's really sweet. Anne: And honestly this is something maybe you're not gonna put it on your, your webpage, but we could think of a different word for it. I mean, I think you could, but beautiful really is another, and I don't mean beautiful like visually I do mean visually, but I really mean beautiful spirit. Like a beautiful spirit. Lau: Thank you. Thank you. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: That means so much more to me. . Anne: So a beautiful spirit and gosh, you know, you said feisty and I love that word. That's a great word, but I -- Lau: Isn't that a great word? Anne: -- also feel like, like a version of feisty, a version of feisty because gosh, I'm thinking of the word, something that would resonate with -- like, no one's gonna pull the wool over your eyes. Lau: Ooh. Anne: Like you're not gonna stand for any kind of nonsense. You are forthright. Lau: Oh, I like that. Thank you. Anne: So those, brilliant, beautiful and forthright. So those would be my three words. And so BOSSes, we get these questions -- Lau and I get these questions all the time, right? What is my brand? How would you describe my voice? And I think it would be a great time to talk about branding, because branding is so difficult to do on your own because -- this is why I asked Lau, what do you think? So I was able to get an assessment from eyes that were not my own or ears that were not my own. And I think it really helps to have someone brand you, but also to have you be a part of that decision in terms of what type of a brand do you wanna be? How do you wanna be perceived out in the business world for your voiceover business? So I know that for my students, there are two different forms of branding. One is a visual branding, which could be your website, right, and how you wanna represent visually. But also vocally. I make it a point to tell students, as we go through our sessions together, I will be vocally branding them. And that really means to assess their tone, their style, and where I feel they fit within the industry in terms of what brands do you think you would represent well, and what styles and what industries your voice would resonate in. Lau: Hmm. I think that's brilliant. I mean, that's so important and that's the very thing that everyone needs, everyone's looking for. Everyone needs it. Sometimes I would imagine it doesn't always like match or it's not always on the level of what someone is self-perceiving, and that's why it's so imperative that you have great coach, great people surrounding you to sort of keep you in line and keep you realizing what is realistic in your perception of whatever your branding is. So I think that that's fantastic that you do that. It's so important, and to do it upfront versus a lot later on, so hearts are not broken you know what I mean? Anne: Well, I think that branding is a process and I think that you can also evolve your brand. You don't have to be one specific brand or three specific adjectives. As a matter of fact, like Lau, you said before, there could be multiple words that describe you. And it's not something that -- you know, it took me a minute to kind of formulate my three words for you, 'cause I was making a decision. There's so many words that came to mind, but as making a decision, how do I best feel that your brand is assessed? And so I think it's important for BOSSes to know out there that branding is not something you can do just over a night or maybe by asking a few questions. I think it's something that happens over time, and it's something that can actually really evolve along with you. I know that my brand, especially my business brand, when I first got out there, I was Anne Speak. And you know, that was like, Anne Speak. What, you know, what is that? What is Anne Speak? And Anne Speak was a very different logo and a very different look on my website. And I've evolved into something that I feel is more authentically me over the years in terms of who I am. And I, I love that you said intelligent because that was one thing that I really wanted for people to perceive about me. It could just be that a female that worked in engineering, that is one of those things that I always wanted people to see me as intelligent and not necessarily, oh, there's a female. I want just here's somebody who knows what they're doing. And some people think that that's why I wear glasses, but honestly I just need them to see . Um, but glasses have always been a big part of my brand. Lau: The truth comes out. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Anne: Well, what about you Lau? 'Cause you've been in the business for some time. And how has your brand evolved over the years? Lau: Well, you know, it's funny. When I started this business, Lau Lapides Company, the studio, I ended up keeping the name throughout. I've never really changed the name itself. I think when I first started though, I always had the mindset of an agent in my head, though it was funny. I wasn't really starting an agency per se. I was starting a studio. Right? So I had this idea of actors work, voice actors work. And so that was one of the running titles in my mind of naming a business, 'cause I wanted talent to work, and I wanted to help them get to work. That was one of -- so that was one of the original working title ideas I had. But then it went to Lau Lapides Company fairly fast and then I stuck with it. Here's the interesting thing I found, Anne, is that despite me or despite what I was thinking, it had a very large appeal. It had a large presence. That's what I'm looking for, a large presence to people on the outside that were saying, wow, you have a big company. And so I would start listening, I think in branding, how do I learn who I am? I have to listen to my audience. And so I spent a lot of time listening to how I was perceived by the audience. And I was astounded at how I was being perceived. And one was this big, large presence. And I think because the name was Lau Lapides Company, it sounded big. It had a largess. So people would come and say, wow, you have an enterprise. Wow you have this, Wow, you have that. And I was very small at the start, as most businesses are. Anne: Sure. Well, one person sometimes. And I love that you talked about your personal name because again, I'm always of the thought that we are our own personal brand. We're selling a product that is very personal to us. It's our voice. Right? It's our essence. And so I always think, well, what better name for your product or your company than your name? And it's funny because people might say, well, I have a long name that's difficult to spell or I have Anne with an E that people always forget. But honestly I'm always like, well look when I need a tissue, I ask for a Kleenex, right? So when I need a voiceover, I should ask for a Lau Lapides or an Anne Ganguzza. Lau: That's right. Anne: And so I've come from the place of abundance as you like to say. And I manifested, right? I am just putting it out there. I'm Anne Ganguzza and lo and behold, at some point people are gonna be asking for an Anne Ganguzza and it, and it will work. And so that was part of my branding, my personal branding for my name was my name. And so my legal company name is Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions. And so it's interesting 'cause you're Lau Lapides Company and I'm Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions. Lau: That's right, that's right. Anne: So I settled on that after many years of trying to figure out what should I name my company? What domain should I buy? Because I thought Anne Speaks was so cute, but we know that nobody really knows what an Anne Speak is. Um, it's not really searchable, but Anne Ganguzza is, right? Lau: Right. Anne: So I love that. And I think you wanted to see what people thought of you, right? Lau: I did. Anne: And that was the basis for the beginning of a brand. So I think any of you BOSSes that are out there and you're starting the branding journey, I think it first has to start with you and the basis of who you are as a person. because it is such a personal brand. Now maybe you're not gonna put those words out beautiful, but maybe beautiful voiceover, who knows. I mean -- Lau: Who knows? Anne: -- whatever comes to you that you wanna be perceived as. Lau: The funny part about it was, Anne, to me it was clunky. It wasn't a smooth transition or polished thing because my name was hard to say it's hard to pronounce. It's hard to spell. I got a lot of people who legitimately thought I was an Asian man. Like literally they had no idea I was a Caucasian white woman, and everyone mispronounced my name, everyone. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: And so a few of the folks that are close to me said, are you sure you wanna keep the name? Because no one's gonna get it right. and they're gonna mispronounce it. And I said, absolutely. Anne: Yes. Oh my God. Lau: That's what makes it memorable. Anne: I am so in agreement with you, so in agreement with you about that, and that's like, well, don't you think people are gonna spell your name wrong? Well, yeah. I mean, but no. People will learn it and Ganguzza, which to a lot of people think is really a difficult name to spell -- it's not, spelled the way it sounds -- Lau: It's different. Anne: But a lot of people were like, yeah. And so why would you do that? I'm like, hey, no, keep it. It's kind of one of the reasons why I kept my unique New Jersey phone number for my cell phone, because people would know if it was coming from that area code, it was Anne Ganguzza. Lau: So that's right. and as they stumble over the name and still stumble over the name and mispronounce it, it never bothers me. I love it because I know as they learn how to pronounce it or catch something, they're thinking about -- Anne: They're gonna remember it. Lau: Yes. Mm-hmm, they're thinking about, they're gonna remember -- Anne: They're thinking about you. Lau: Yeah. So I think that's a hook for a lot of folks to think about it. It doesn't have to be easy and it doesn't have to be common. It could be something a little bit unique that people remember that they have a tough time with too. Anne: Right. Now, and so let's talk a little bit about visual branding. So for visual branding, I'm assuming like visual branding would be your logo, your website. And so things that represent your store front, that would be the visual branding. It can also be the visual branding of your person. If you're a person that goes to conferences or you're a person that goes out and speaks, go to the chamber of commerce and you're representing your business. So visually branding, so it's a little bit different than vocally branding. So what are some steps that you take, Lau, to visually help brand yourself or others? Like what steps can the BOSSes take to start with the visual branding? Lau: Gosh, that's a great question, Anne, and it's like asking someone to think like a graphic designer. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Or a web designer, right, or do something that I personally am not. I am not a visual designer. I'm not a graphic designer. And yet when I was starting out with a website, I had to kind of become that in the sense of the designer would need to know, what was I going for? What was the visual I was seeing. So I had to -- Anne: Colors. I think starting with them -- Lau: -- work with them. Colors. Anne: Colors. Lau: Colors, colors. Anne: I think colors are a good start. Right? Lau: Huge. So what I did was, and I remember doing this years ago before I actually started the studio, I started asking some of my students at that time, I would say, what color do you think of when you think of me? Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. Lau: And I remember, I remember some of their responses that it was so memorable to me. One of the women that I worked with was amazing. And she said, oh, red. Anne: Yeah. Lau: It just like came right out. Just like that. I said, you don't have to think about that for a second. She said, no, no, you're blunt. You're vibrant, you're specific you're out there and unapologetic, and you're red. . Anne: Yep. I agree with that. I totally -- Lau: 'Cause I love all colors, Anne. I don't have a favorite color. Like any color you give me, I would like. Anne: Oh really? Lau: Yeah. Anne: So my favorite color is blue, right? Yes. Believe it or not, blue -- and blue is actually my brand. If you go to annganguzza.com, blue is -- but I also love red. Okay? Lau: I can see that. Yes. Anne: And so red -- yes -- red is part of my VO BOSS brand. So I got to have the best of both worlds and my favorite colors. And it's not necessarily a vibrant, bright red, but it is more of a deeper red. That is one of my very favorite colors. And so I got to have both for both of my brands. And so I think it starts, colorwise also, I think it can really describe you in a lot of ways, colors. You know, Blue's very professional calming, but for me, blue is also the color of my eyes. And it was always been my favorite color. I mean, when I was a kid blue everything, and I had blue stripes painted in my room on my walls because I love the color blue. And so that's really an integral part of who I am. And I think starting with those colors and it was something within that color palette can be a great visual representation. And I'll tell you what I do with a lot of my students, if I were helping them brand themselves is we, we actually create a, a private Pinterest board, and I have them just like a vision board, right, I have them pin everything that they love on one of a board that they call Sarah's branding board. Right? And they pin their favorite colors. And then maybe they'll go to like Behr paints and get a color palette, right? Pick their favorite colors, pick their favorite fonts, pick their favorite things, and flowers and whatever that might be and put that on a board. And what's really cool is that -- I'm not saying you have to design the website, but you give that to the person who's doing your website design. And that is a great representation of who you visually are as a brand. Lau: Oh, I love that. That's fab. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: That's fab. And you know, the other thing that comes to my mind is shape. So when I think about shape, right? I think about the first thing that comes to my mind was the documentary on coffee, the great coffee kings entrepreneurs around the world. And Starbucks had done years and years of studies about their furniture. Like what shape should their furniture be in their stores? And they went from square to rectangle to oval, to round, whatever. Bottom line they landed on more -- at that time, it may have changed -- more round than square and the reasoning being, they want the community to be connected in the circular sense than in a square sense with sharp corners and sharp edges. That's, I mean, they were really going to town with the details. Anne: That's, that's really interesting. Lau: And I learned a lot from that and I thought, gee, what shape am I? What shape am I? And my logo was very square. It was actually very rectangular. And I analyzed why I did that. At the time I was coming out of an executive speech firm that was pretty square. I mean, they were pretty corporate in the sense. Anne: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lau: I thought it was, was the right thing, the right thing to have a logo that had subliminally, I thought that had sharp, sharp, structured edges to it. Anne: That makes sense. Lau: I since created a new logo, and it's always in a, a work in progress, like everything we're always work in progress, and I didn't even think about this. I just did it, Anne. It became circular. It became circular. I like the image, but I also love the sense of just roundness and the world and the -- Anne: Softening. Lau: -- connections. Softening. Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Lau: Yeah. So I think shape plays a big part in your branding. Anne: That is so interesting. And I, I interesting that 'cause shape can define your website. You can have a curved logo or even curved edges on your website or represented in circles for me. I'm very clean. I'm gonna say clean lines, clean circles. And I'm gonna say -- that's so funny because your furniture decor can say a lot about your taste as well, right? I used it for many, many years. It was more of like a, a Tuscan Italian dark wood. And then literally just moved to this new house, which became the interpretive farmhouse. Right? And now I became all clean lines, and my backyard landscaping, believe it or not is not circular. And it's funny because I would go to my neighbors' yards as they were getting them landscaped. And I'd be like, I love the circular curved paths, but in retrospect, my backyard is very square and asymmetrical, rectangular and asymmetrical. And there's something to that as well. So I think that BOSSes think about those things in terms of visual branding, put them on a Pinterest board that you can either give to your website designer or use it yourself in terms of colors and shapes really say a lot. And fonts, I love clean fonts. I don't like fonts with curly anything. I don't like fonts that are Times New Roman like that kind of like that. I like fonts that are plain like Arial, you know, that kind of a Sans Serif, those types of things. So clean and readable and clear. And I feel that that also describes my voice, believe it or not clear and professional. And so those are my font choices. Then comes the part of the visual branding is also how you write about yourself, how you describe yourself. Do you write in the first person, do you write in the third person? You know, how is it that you're describing yourself on your webpage for your bio or for your business? But that really is a visual branding thing. And I think it can absolutely help if you start doing that and work with someone to help you to develop your visual brand. It's sometimes really difficult and know that it can evolve. I mean, absolutely. My colors when I first started were dark green. So who knew, right? I evolved my brand into blue and deep red. And now maybe it'll turn into something else. But brands do evolve. They do refresh. And I literally just had a refresh of the VO BOSS website. And so, so the colors that I had before were more brighter red and more of a royal blue. Now I've got maybe just a deep red and black. So the look is different. The website design, the logo is clearer and so things can evolve. And I think it's good for you to refresh your brand once in a while. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: Now let's talk about vocal branding. So it's something that I say that I do. And I, there's not a lot of people who they're like, oh, I love that you vocally brand me. What do you do? But I think a lot of people are vocally branded, right? When we try to describe what are the traits of my voice that you hear? I think that's definitely one, but also I think not just what are the traits of my voice, whether it's friendly, warm, whatever could be -- Lau: The qualities. Anne: The qualities of voice. But I think it's also more of a style as well. What do you think, Lau? Lau: Oh, oh my goodness. Absolutely. I feel like your personality, your persona, your inners, so to speak, do come out in the sound of your voice. Like when we're working with a client to find their voice, it's not just for voiceover delivery. It's for authentication of your identity, of your strength, of your inner soul, if you will. It goes that deep. So I think a branding is an offshoot of that. It doesn't have to expose everything about you personally, but there is that element there of how do you come across? How are you perceived on a daily basis outside of copy, outside of a booth, outside of work? And melting that into your professional life so it's not a totally separate thing. It's really a hybrid of your persona, your personality, the personification of personalization with your professional chosen life and choices that you've made. It's kind of a combination of those two. I don't believe it's one or the other. So I think your vocal branding is really every possible range of motion movement that your voice is capable of doing and really landing on what do I do most? What do I do best? What do I like doing? Anne: Right, and a lot of that has to do with like, you know, when I talk about vocal branding, you're right, it doesn't stop at the actual technicality of a vocal. It really, it becomes what styles, what do you love? What are you passionate about? Because again, that personality, that authenticity, that you, that unique you is a part of your vocal. So it's so interesting when people try to just categorize it as just being friendly, warm, compassionate, gravelly. It's so much more than that, your vocal branding. And again -- Lau: It is. Anne: -- that's something that I think with a lot of times, if a demo producer they're creating a demo for you, they'll ask you what brands do you align with? What things are you passionate about? Because it really makes sense that if you're talking about things that you're passionate about, it comes through in your voice and that becomes a style. I know that there are people, let's say if there's a male that comes to me, that has a very deep gravelly voice, what sorts of things do you think of when you think of a deep gravelly voice? I don't know, Ford trucks or , you know, maybe at Cracker Barrel, I don't know. Or, or it could be John Deere construction equipment, that sort of thing. So what sort of things with a higher pitched, young youthful voice? Well, believe it or not, a lot of times I think of finance. There's a lot of finance lately that is using young millennial youthful voices, because that's the audience they're trying to attract, not just the young voice for that, but just, it could be college spots or anything that that style or that age would be passionate about or thinking about. And a lot of the style and the content that we are shooting for is where they want to advertise to. Are they advertising to a younger audience? Are they advertising to a more mature audience? And so wherever your voice follows suit the best, I think helps to vocally brand your voice as well. You know, even though I have a younger sounding voice, I certainly cannot sound millennial. It's just not necessarily in my authenticity, right, to sound millennial. Even if I try to mimic a millennial, I think ingrained in my voice is too many years of, I don't know, just too many years. Right? So I could try to sound millennial, but will I feel authentic doing it? So for vocal branding, I'm always very much about the authentic part of you. Now, if you get into character, that's something different, right? That's a different voice. And again, that's also a different passion. I know so many people vocally that can bring out so much more personality behind a character than they can with their own voice. It's hard for them to assess their own voice and to be authentic with their own voice or realistic, I should say, because I truly believe there's a lot of people that are exceptional character actors, that they're really good at -- and I don't maybe hiding behind the voice is not a good word for it, but I wanna say they're very good at putting on another character. And sometimes when you say, well, let me just hear you because you are good enough. Your voice is good enough. That's a little more difficult for them. Lau: Oh, no question about it. And I think a lot of folks get really disappointed and let down when they are prototyped quickly or when they are thought of as, oh, you're the grandmother. Oh, you're the -- Anne: You're the mother type. Lau: -- middle-aged mother. Oh, you are the, this you're the that. Well, that's what our industry does. I mean, our industry has to do that for time sake, for expediency, for ease, you know. I can do Shakespeare. I can do a lot of things, but what do I do most of, what do I do best? What do I do easiest? What's the easiest thing for me to deliver? That's important for you to really identify that and recognize that and understand that you get -- it's not the only thing you'll get. You may get something outside of that, for sure. But if you can make the job of the producer, casting a lot easier, then you wanna do that. And you wanna listen to your audience, how they're seeing you or in this case, how they're hearing you. How do they hear you? I remember too, I got a number of times through the years, even when I was much younger, Anne, even when I was in my 20's, I was starting to get audiences say to me, oh yeah, you're like the nanny. You're like the Jewish, you know, mom, you're the Jewish mom, aren't you? And I was offended. Here I was a conservatory actress. I wasn't married. I had no children. I, I was like, all right, I guess so. I thought it was almost like a slight to me. It was almost like a backwards insult of saying, is that all you hear me as? Is that really what is all has come down to? Well, since then, I've learned that that level of familiarity, that level of maternal, maternalistic quality, that level of ethnic appeal is very gratifying for a lot of people, very gratifying, and very gratifying for me too, as an actor. And so I adopted that. I love that. I, I embrace that. But then I know I could do something totally different at another time. It doesn't really limit me, not really. It just expands the level of work that I can get, because that's what I get known for. See? Anne: Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad that you said that. And I think that there are people who hear your vocal brand as a type. I mean, I just had a student who had a really deep gravelly voice and I said, oh, we're gonna do a Kubota spot, 'cause I had -- construction equipment. He goes that's so funny because I work in it and I have no idea about construction equipment. I said, yeah. But it's something that it's associated with that type of work, and you sound great at it. And as long as you're okay with it, you know, and you can be authentic about it, and it doesn't mean you have to go out and run a piece of equipment to be authentic about it. You just have to be authentic about the message and what you're saying. And so, yeah. I'm so glad that you said that because there are perceived, you know, you sound like this type. And for me I've like, okay, you've got the professional educator because you've got that clear articulate voice. Well, I can't help -- I -- it's a clear articulate voice. And I would love to have that raspy kind of a demure kind of other voice, but it doesn't physically happen for me. So I said, okay, I'm going to accept that. And you know, if I get hired for that, of course, that's fantastic, right? But it doesn't stop me from learning other genres. It doesn't stop me from trying to vocally place my voice and do different things to increase my acting ability and my vocal ability. So it's just something, if you embrace it and then just move forward, continuing to broaden and expand your styles. I think that's, that's a wonderful thing. Lau: Yeah, it reminds me of when someone says, oh my God, you, you look like my best friend. You look like my aunt, you look like this one I know. That used to annoy me. That used to say, oh, it's like, I'm not my own identity. I'm not my own person. I look like someone everyone knows. And then I realized that's a really great thing because they already feel close to me. They feel familiar to me. They feel like they know me. Anne: What a great way to analyze that because that's the same thing with your voice. Right? So somebody is kind of saying, oh you are that voice. Well then that's great. Because they're familiar with it. They feel comfortable with it. That's a wonderful way to look at it. Lau: That's exactly it, exactly it. So don't look at is anything is limiting you. Look at it as expansion, your brand, your vocal, your visual, your inner, your outer. I think the sky is the limit, but do understand how in audience, there's like a truism, a community truism that you get in a film when you're watching a great film or when you're listening to great music. There's a community understanding of familiarity or greatness or fitting in a particular role. And it's important to just pay attention to that. So you're red, you're red. Anne: Yeah, there you go. And I can also be blue. So there you go. Lau: And you can be blue. Anne: So branding, guys, it's not something you can do overnight. Remember, it definitely helps when you have someone else, a trusted coach, a trusted circle of friends and community that can help you to understand how you are perceived. And also I think it takes a lot on your part to project what it is that you want to be perceived in an authentic manner, of course. That's gonna be your start to branding. Just know that it doesn't typically happen overnight and that you can evolve and change with it. And I think that's a wonderful thing. Lau: And it can be a load of fun. And you can learn an awful lot through the years of shifting your brand, and changing your brand, and what your perceived brand is, and really kind of just opening up and accepting the flow of what the audience and the universe is giving to you. Anne: Yeah. I would never disagree to being able to discover more about myself and learn more about myself in order to help put out a brand. So it's all good. It's all good, BOSSes. Well, thank you, Lau. What a great conversation. Lau: My pleasure, as always. Anne: Always a pleasure to have you. I'm going to give a big shout out to ipDTL, our sponsor. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Also for your voices out there, 100voiceswhocare.org. You can use your voice to make a difference. Find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. BOSSes, it's been amazing, and Lau, it's been amazing having you again. And we will all see you next week. Lau: See you next week. Anne: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Build a circle that will support, motivate, and promote your inner joy, strength & courage. Anne & Lau are breaking down fear to build up your confidence. Your confidence level can make or break your biz, but it all starts from within. Do you really want success? Are you ready to put in the work to achieve your dreams? Instead of asking coaches, peers, and friends, you have to ask yourself and answer with honesty. Creating goals that feel insurmountable is what will end your business before you begin. But with the right tools & wisdom from your favorite business superheroes, we know you can tackle any task! Transcript >> It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast in the business superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Lau, how are you today? Lau: Fabulous. Fabulous. Thank you, Anne. It's great to be back. Anne: Yeah, I am excited about our series, so excited. Lau: Me too. Anne: And the last couple of series we've were learning more and more about you. And I wanted to kind of bring into the mold a little bit about when I first started back in, oh God, this is so long ago, but not quite as long -- I think you've been in the business longer than me but -- Lau: I have. Anne: I remember distinctly, I remember distinctly when I started, I didn't come from a creative background. You know, I didn't have a job and a creative background. Well, everything can be a creative field I think if you make it a creative field, but it wasn't distinctly a creative field of voiceover. So I remember when I gave up my cushy job, my cushy corporate job or cushy corporate job in education, I was scared. I was really scared about starting a full time job in voiceover. And I was really a little bit timid and lacked a little bit of confidence because I had never embarked on something. I had never been an entrepreneur and started my own business. So, and I know that a lot of people, this is somewhat intimidating to them. So I thought we could talk about the topic of confidence, because I truly believe that the evolution of my confidence and how I manifested it helped me to really get through the first stumbling blocks and hard times. And not that there aren't hard times now, but I feel like confidence really plays a big part in how well we get through events that may or may not be everyday roses. Lau: Yeah, I'm right there with you. I think it's the bedrock of what we do as performers. I mean, if you put aside right now, the idea that you're an entrepreneur, you're a BOSS, you, you head up your own company, whether you're a DBA, an LLC, or whatever those letters are after your name, it's your own deal. It's your own shindig. But put that aside for a second, just as a person, as a human being -- we're performers and our job is to, to some degree become vulnerable, to open up to a world, something inside of us and reveal something. And how do we do that? Right? How do we get to that? How do we have that confidence to be able to expose ourself in that way and then be able to reel it in? So I think, think, yes, I think confidence is really, really just a foundation of where we start from and where we're working from and what helps define us as the, the superheroes that we are asked to become every day. Anne: And I was even talking just business-wise, like, how do I even do this thing? And you brought in the whole other aspect of performance that, yeah, we do have to show ourselves to be vulnerable. We have to really be able to bring ourselves to the copy. And a lot of times that means exposing ourselves and that is sometimes very uncomfortable for people, especially if they're not used to doing it. And so I just remember so many self-doubts flooding my brain. And I didn't have anybody to talk to 'cause I didn't know anybody that had really done what I was doing in my immediate circle. As a matter of fact, most people, sometimes my parents too, would be like -- well, my mother would be like, honey, when are you gonna get a real job? And bless her, I love her. But she would say, well, you know, when are you gonna get? And, and I'm like, but Mom, I. Lau: . Right. Right. Anne: I'm an entrepreneur, Mom. And it was funny because it took her a while before she finally, you know, understood what it was that I was doing. And so I think first of all, we have to assess the current situation that we're in, and we have to actually acknowledge that I think fear could be something that is contributing to our lack of confidence. I think that's step number one. What are your thoughts? Lau: I'm with you all the way. I think that fear is, is a huge factor. And I often talk to my clients about this, is that there's two really big obstacles that can get in our way. One is fear and one is focus, and the two of them together can be powerhouse if used wisely because the truth is we're never gonna not feel fear. That's like a double negative. But that's just, you know, we're human beings. We're, we're animalistic in a survivalist kind of way. We're built to have instinct about things, which is important. We have to listen to our inner voice as well as our outer voice. We have to pay attention when we feel there's danger or something that's not going to work for us. Right? So don't put that inner fear factor voice away, but it's really like feeling the fear, but then doing it anyway, if that's a calculated risk, if that's a risk worth taking for you, how do I manage that? I always feel like I can never really control anything as much as I would love to. I can't. I have to be able to manage the difficulties and the conflicts and the obstructions and all that stuff that gets thrown in our path. But if we think about it as oh, but I have to control my fear, I shouldn't be feeling fear -- that's wrong. I think then we're already off on the wrong path. We have to accept the fact that we're built to feel fear. You know, even our breathing as speakers, we understand what fight or flight breathing is. You know, if we go into our upper thoracic chest cavity, if we go into the clavicular area of our throat, we know we're in more of a stress fight or flight mode. Right? And it's not great for speaking, but it's meant for other occasions that will kind of save us and save our lives. Anne: Right. Right. Lau: So you are right, Anne. I think fear is important. It's necessary, but a lot of people have a negative connotation of fear and how to manage the fear. Anne: I think if you don't feel fear, then you are not growing. Lau: Yeah, and, and like, do we even care about it? Anne: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I think if you're not feeling fear, then you're not maybe pushing yourself to where I think you could be. And I think that that is something that if you can take that fear and not fear the fear but yet figure out a way to push through the fear and roll with the fear and know that it's normal and know that it's normal even for veterans like us I think that have been in the business for a long time. I still feel fear as a matter of fact, quite a bit. And I've grown to the point where I know that if I don't feel fear, that I'm not pushing myself. And I just, for me, I think to be the best entrepreneur and the best that I can be, I need to be able to feel that and push through it. But it doesn't mean that it makes it any easier sometimes. Lau: No, it doesn't, but fear can be fun. Remember the show that used to be on, Fear Factor. Anne: Yeah. Right, right. Lau: That a huge, massive audience. Like why are we so fascinated with seeing people in fear? Why is the horror genre in film or in audiobooks so massive, a billion dollar industry? Because there's a catharsis that we need as human beings that we live through that we learn, at least have the potential to learn about morality about what to do, what not to do, about how to protect ourselves, about how to build a better situation for ourselves. It's fun. And it's exciting. And there's a little, you know, frisson that comes in the back of the neck. But at the end of the day, we wanna walk out and we wanna say, hey, I kind of discovered something here. I learned something about myself or about my surroundings. And the fear was like a little bit of a, a sign saying, pay, pay attention. You know, just, just look at the details of what's happening here. And fear in a way is care. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good point. Lau: Like I care when I feel fear. Right? Anne: Yeah. Absolutely. Lau: So we have to be kind of fearless about fear. Anne: And so, you know, let's talk about what are the things that are, I think common fears when we become entrepreneurs. I'll, I'll start with, I fear that I'm not going to be able to make it or make any money and I will be, I will fail. So therefore it becomes that thought that I won't be good enough. I won't be able to make money and I'll have to go back to the corporate world and I'll fail. And that was my biggest fear in the beginning. And it was a very like blanket, like thought. And it was a very big thought that like, oh no, it will never work. I will fail. And then I'll have to go back. And that was looking at it at a, on a very large scale. I think one of the things that helped me to kind of get through that is to start to look at things in a smaller light and have little steps that maybe I could feel that I wouldn't fail, but that was number one, the fear that the whole thing wouldn't work, and it wasn't just, oh, I won't be good enough. It'll just be like the whole thing won't work. I don't know anything about starting a business. I haven't researched it really. I've never done it before. And I don't have anybody in my immediate circle that has started a business. So where do I go for help? So there was all these unknown questions. That was my -- what about you when you first started? Lau: That's a good one. Actually. That's a hard one to top; that fear of failure in is like big. I think your engineer needs to do a, some, some like good trivia music right now. Just like some Jeopardy music right now. Anne: Yeah. Right? Lau: See if I could top that one. Okay. Here's one. The fear of spending money, IE the fear of losing money. Anne: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Lau: Right. Without an ROI that's secure, if there is such a thing without knowing what my return really will be, without knowing if I'll ever get work, I'm scared to spend money. I'm scared to go broke. I'm scared to waste money. That's a big one, right? Anne: That's a very common fear I think for a lot of people just getting into the industry, it's their, they like, I don't have money to invest, but I need to get work. And it's that which came first. Right? Lau: Right. Anne: And so thankfully I think anybody that goes into this full or, or even part-time needs to, first of all, make sure they have a little bit of a financial cushion so that they can invest the money. Just knowing I didn't quit my corporate job completely blind. I did understand that I would need to invest money. And so I think that securing that knowledge that you have money to invest in your career is one thing. And that's a big thing. And that even now, as I have been in the industry for more than 15 years to continually invest in my company, because now that I have seven to eight people right now that work for me, that was a big thing, right? To be able to like, oh my God, I'm gonna pay someone, and do I have the extra money to pay someone? And so BOSSes, what's really cool about that comparison is that going from an independent, I work for myself, I'm going out to make money, and to grow to a point where you're now gonna hire an assistant that can help you because you're grown to the point so that you can continue to do what it is that you love and have other people that can do the things that maybe you don't love so much, or that you're not as good at. And so that whole first decision like, oh my gosh, do I have the money to hire someone and to spend and to invest? That's a big fear as well. And I think what gave me confidence was I did it small steps at a time. And I think that's one thing for you, BOSSes, is to think about it. What are the small steps they're gonna take you to get you to your goal and what are the achievable steps that will then give you confidence, right, to continue moving forward? Lau; Right. And, Anne, I wanna piggyback on that point , which is so necessary. It's like bottom line again, bedrock principle what you're talking about here is mindset, mindset, mindset over your matter. You really have to power up that mindset when it comes to investment and say, am I coming from a mindset of poverty or am I coming from a mindset of wealth? And I'm not only talking about physical money. I'm also talking about abundance, surplus, glass half full. Am I a hopeful positive, I'm gonna take that lemon and make it into lemonade? That to me is wealth, wealth of knowledge, wealth of spirit, wealth of fun and risk taking. So you have to be honest with yourself I think, Anne, and say, am I really in a position to do this? Because my mindset needs to be able to open up to the possibilities of success. Like I, I always say to my clients be careful what you wish for. You may get it. Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Lau: Right? Because success is difficult. It's hard. It holds you to a very high level of responsibility and industry standard and timeline and everything. Success isn't easy. Success is a challenge. Right? Anne: And there's a fear of success as well. That is absolutely a thing. Lau: Ooh, that's your number three, I think, right? Anne: Yeah. Fear of success. That's number -- and then wanting to continue and continue to grow. And I think it's a cycle. Every step, as you move up really becomes, I'm afraid. like acknowledging the fear, and then breaking it up maybe into smaller chunks. How can I get from this level to this level? And then breaking that up into small steps and then being able to manifest come from that place of abundance, and just push through until that small step is achieved. That will give you the conference to move up to the next step. Lau: Absolutely. Anne: And help you to manifest the next step. And I think that that might be a, a great process for people to work through the fear and build their confidence in order to grow their business. Lau: Yeah. And yeah, I do think you have to be as honest with yourself as possible and your crew around you, your coaches, your directors, whoever you're working with, even your professional accountability buddies in saying, do I really want success? Or do I like the idea of success? Because the reality is a job, it's work, it's time. It's wonderful, but it's work. So do I really want to put in what I need to put in to work or do I have self sabotaging patterns where every time I start getting close to something that's progressive and good, I put something in the way of it to wall it off? Which I see an awful lot of people doing, whether it's, I can't make that timeframe. Anne: I see that on social media. Lau: I'm busy with something else. Yeah. yeah. And you think, well, wait a second, isn't this your goal? Isn't this what you wanna be doing? Yes. As long as it's within my timeframe, within my structure, my context and not really realizing that you're really have to be more client centered, more audience centered, more producer centered. It's not about you in your world. It's really about what you're doing for the client. And so the self sabotage can start to take over. That's common. Anne: Yeah. That's I think a, a big thing. And I do see that on social media where there'll be forums and people will be talking about, well, how do I get work? Or how do you find success in this? And you know, well, I just can't because of this. I can't because of that. I can't because of, and so, you know, again, it's that sort of thing where you're, you're kind of putting all the things that you can't do in front of things that you can do to grow and to move up. And I think, again, it's got to start with you being honest and taking a real honest look at yourself and finding out if you're willing to do the work. You know, there's so many people, and I know you've run into this as well, Lau, that say, do I have what it takes? Do I have what it takes to make it? Lau: Right. Anne: So there's a good question, Lau. What is your answer to the people who will ask you that? Do I have what it takes? Lau: I always say, you know, when that type of question comes up, I always feel immediately, my knee jerk reaction is I think you're asking the wrong question, to be honest with you. I think a more effective question to ask would be, am I willing to set up a realistic work structure for myself, then I can adhere to on a time management basis and really hold myself accountable to that. Am I willing to do that? Because I always feel like when I went to grad school, I was in a accepted to a three year conservatory full program. And I was nervous about it, nervous, fearful, a little scared. I asked one of my dear friends who had come out of a program. I said, what do I expect? What should I be looking for? He said, listen, simple as this, what you put into it is what you're gonna get out of it. Anne: Yeah. Lau: And I said, what a brilliant answer. I've used that for years and years, because it's an individual journey. It's an individual's path. I can't predict your level of success. I can't predict who's going to perceive you as a incredible talent. I can't even predict what kind of genre you're gonna go into, honestly. I can give you my, my advice and that's what I can do. but you have to be honest with yourself and say, do I want this? Am I willing to set up a work schedule for myself? Can I invest in this? Am I willing to not be an ego and set up professionals who know a lot more than I do surrounding me to teach me? I mean, am I willing to do this? And then I can get closer to the answer to that question. Anne: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's so many people that think it takes like, well, do I have the voice for it? And honestly, I always try to tell people it's about so much more than just your voice. It's really about your connection and the ability to bring yourself to the words and be able to connect. And I believe that if you have the ability to connect with people on a day to day basis, you have the basis for what it takes to do voiceover, because everybody's looking for authenticity. And I think if you're not at the point in your journey where you can bring authenticity to your craft, then that might be the question to ask. It's not, do I have the voice, but do I have the courage to expose myself and be authentic through the art? And once I am, then does that bring me the joy that will bring the passion, the emotion to the craft, which I think is what is truly the connection with people and what people respond to. I'm gonna say the physical aspects of the voice in this whole career, like, will you be successful, I think there's a very small percentage of us -- and again, it's very subjective, right? That have a voice that has the physical characteristics that are like, oh my goodness, like the majority of people will find that beautiful. Very few. There's a lot of us out here though that have a great ability to connect with people. And that almost means more because if you have a beautiful voice and you're not able to connect with authenticity, that is only gonna buy you a certain level of success, I believe. Lau: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I think we just came up with your next episode, and that is like all the wrong questions to ask. Anne: Yeah. Right? Lau: When you start voiceover, there's really a lot -- I don't even like to use the word wrong. It's not that it's wrong. It's that it's not appropriate at the time to ask that kind of question. Anne: Yeah. Lau: Until you've really been in it for a while. Like a question like coming into it, how much money can I make doing this? It's not an appropriate or effective question to answer at the beginning stages of a career. It just, it just isn't. So that's your next episode, I think, that's the next one. Anne: Well, I, what I was hoping with that explanation was to also give people a boost of confidence so that it does help. I mean, this whole episode is about how to build your confidence up and how to overcome the fear. And I, I really believe that if you understand that about this industry and understand that about this career, again, it's so much more than just that voice, then it becomes, do you have the courage to build a business? Do you have the courage to do the work? And again, that I think if you break it down into the small steps and that's about my only solution for it is to really maybe write your goals down, which I think is a phenomenal way to really help you break down this fear, right, and give yourself confidence. And I also think, and, and I believe that we talked about this before, or I must have talked about it 100 times before writing down those small accomplishments can really mean the world to giving yourself more confidence to continue forward. And as well as the fact that you wrote it down, right, gives you a benchmark. So again, you have to grow step by step moving forward and moving more forward. How do you know if you don't compare it to where you've been? Right? You don't have a benchmark. Lau: So exactly. There's just no context for it in time, in your timeline of your life and also of your career that you're in the middle of. I, I'm also gonna add to that and say, build your circle. I won't even say network. I'll just say circle because it could be family. It could be friends. It could be whoever it could be pets. It could be anyone or anything that helps promote your inner strength, your inner joy and your courage, the word you used earlier. I think is a really smart and frightening word to a lot of people. Like, how do I get courageous? How do I get brave? How, how do I become the superhero? Well, it's just like little moments, little detailed steps you take every day. It isn't these big, massive moves of saving the world. It's like, if you're helping the environment, how do I save the world? I can't save the world. Well, just pick up the can. Anne: Well, exactly. Lau: You know, just pick up a bottle. Put it in here. Anne: Exactly. Take the small step. . Lau: That's all you have to do. Anne: That's such a wonderful example because honestly, if it becomes this all encompassing, overwhelming thing, you've quit before you've even started. Lau: Right, I can't do that. Anne: If you make it so large and so big, and it's like, oh my God, I can't possibly like, if you're beginning, you're beginning to say, well, I didn't make any money this week. And that is what deters you from, you know, the entire career, then -- Lau: Then you quit. Anne: Yeah, exactly. Lau: You've already quit. Anne: You've already quit. Lau: I got one more to throw in the mix, 'cause I hear this a lot. Especially from my crowd that's over 40, fear of technology. Very scary to a lot of people who are not digital natives. They didn't grow up on computers. They didn't grow up using a microphone. They didn't grow up on a video screen. They just didn't, right? I'm in that generation. I'm generation X. We didn't grow up that way. We learned, I mean, I didn't learn it. It was till I was in my 30's, like how to even be on a computer, you know, we didn't have cell phones. So that fear of technology I think can stop a lot of people's progress, and it's important that if you recognize you have the fear, again, it's okay to have the fear it's, it's natural. It's normal. Just how do I manage the fear? Well, one way I could manage the fear, I could delegate some tasks to some of my circle that's around me that I find overwhelming or I find scary. It could be something like, help me choose a microphone or help me, help me learn some new apps on my computer or help me whatever. And also delegating actual tasks to someone else. Like you have an engineer you hire, I have an engineer I hire, I mean that's okay once you have enough money in the pot to hire people and have them do a job that you're not proficient at, you don't have the time for, you don't want to be doing whatever. It's like give yourself permission to delegate. Anne: One of the biggest confidence builders I've found myself as I've grown through the years. Is that money in the pot thing right? So if you can put together a savings account and as you make money, right? Put some in. I mean, that sounds like my mom and dad, like from just, we save a penny. Right? But having money in the pot will help you have confidence so that when there is a low period or maybe you don't get a job for a week or two or a month, that will give you the confidence to still continue on and move forward, and also give you the confidence to help reinvest that money someplace else. The bigger that savings account is, I'll tell you once I got my savings account to a certain level, I was bold as yeah. Anything good. Lau: Yes, yes, yes. Anne: Because I was like, okay, this is okay. I was bold in everything bold in how I was gonna grow my business, bold in, you know, oh, maybe I'll try this now. Right? I was bold to make different steps. And it really changed the way that I ran my business, and it was exhilarating to me. And that gave me confidence like nothing else. I'm not gonna say money is the only thing that gives you confidence, but in this kind of an industry where you have a lot of highs and a lot of lows and a lot of fears, and a lot of the fear I think is fear of failure. And for me, because I went full time, I wanted to contribute to the household expenses, right? This was not just something that I could just enjoy for the rest of my life. I wasn't retiring. I needed to make money to pay the mortgage. And so money for me there gave me a lot of confidence. So I think BOSSes, take tiny steps to understand that there is fear. Take those tiny steps, write down those goals, celebrate those milestones, generate that confidence, and continue to grow and be BOSSes. Right? Lau: I love it. We'll call that VO bucks. Put away your VO bucks, right? Anne: Your VO bucks. I love it. Lau: VO bucks. And when someone says to you, Anne, but honestly I'm telling you honestly, Anne, I don't have the money. I can't buy a new microphone. You say, well, wait a second, wait a second. This is where the financial advisor and you start popping out and you say, wait a second. Didn't you go to the movies last weekend? Did you eat out a couple times this week? Anne: Did you buy that Starbucks? Lau: yes. Just, just be willing to sacrifice that. Do the math on, on that. Put it towards the microphone or whatever you need. And then tell me later, wow. I was able to reprioritize, redirect my VO bucks, and I somehow magically found the money. I found it. Anne: Yeah, hey, I got a part-time job as a office assistant and my mother was like, here, I came out of my six figure, you know, corporate job. And then I'm like, well I'm an office assistant, and I would never downplay any of that. But it was one of those things I did part-time while I was building up the business so that I could have the money and not feel horribly guilty. Right? That I wasn't contributing. And I was building up the business. So giving me confidence, giving me the money to reinvest. BOSSes, you can do it. We've got the faith in you. so. Lau: Everyone is the superhero at the end of the day, Anne, everyone has those powers. Anne: Business superpowers. So awesome episode. Thank you so much, Lau. It's been so much fun. Lau: So much fun. Anne: And, and I am going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also I want to let you know about 100voiceswhocare.org. You can use your voice to make an immediate difference in the world and give back to the communities that give to you. So find out more at 100voiceswhocare.org. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Lau: Bye. >> Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.