VO BOSS

In this episode, Anne and Gillian stress the importance of having a high-quality home studio for voice actors. The hosts discuss the technical aspects of setting up a studio, such as having a good computer, fast internet, and a reliable microphone. They also emphasize the need for soundproofing, with Anne sharing her DIY approach to creating acoustic panels for her studio. Additionally, the hosts talk about the importance of isolation and how it can be achieved through building panels or using reflection filters. Overall, the episode provides valuable insights for anyone looking to set up a professional-grade voiceover studio.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I'm excited to welcome back to the show audio engineer, musician and creative freelancer Gillian Pelkonen for another episode in our BOSS audio series. Hey Gillian.    Gillian: Hello Anne. How's it going today?    Anne: I'm doing good. Gillian, I love talking all things audio with you, especially because for a voice actor, our home studios are so very important. And I work mostly out of my home studio, and I know that you kind of do both. You work out of professional studios and your home studio. So I thought we should discuss the important aspects of what voice actors really need and how they can fine-tune their home studio to sound their best, 'cause that's an important component of today's voice actor. We need to have great sound.    Gillian: Yeah, I definitely agree. And I'm home. This is like my working station, but when I'm really working I'm always just bopping around to different studios. So I understand why your booth is so important. It's like your second home or --   Anne: Yeah. (laughs).   Gillian: You know, you spend all your time in there.   Anne: We spend — oh yeah, we spend a lot of time in our booth. So first of all we have to be confident that it sounds amazing, that we can deliver amazing sound to our clients. And then also it's gotta be someplace where it's comforting for us because we do spend an awful lot of time in here.    Gillian: I definitely agree with my personal setup that I have here. I have like all my little mementos that I wanna see, and I have my mic of course for just meetings and talking. But really professional studios are so different than a home studio, because for me I'm always going different places. There's a ton of different gear, a ton of different stuff that we swap in and out for different uses, different clients, but really you guys are just focusing on your voice.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: A lot of the work that I do is just to get creative sounds, different sounds, but with voice acting you want it to be consistent and you wanna show up in the booth to do, I guess, revisions for something that you did six months ago and you need to be the same Anne that you were, which is so crazy to me.    Anne: Yeah. And even longer than that, actually I had a client just the other day that I had to provide pickups on something that I had done close to five years ago. And interestingly enough, I've actually transitioned from one studio to the next. So having I think the good bass sound, right, that you can get out of your studio area and also your mics make a big difference too in terms of the sound. And so I had to make sure that I could match it because I literally moved from my studio in Irvine, which was a different setup, a studio that my father built, to a custom studio that Tim Tippetts built here right before the pandemic. Oh, and in between I had a temporary studio, I forgot to mention that set up at an apartment that we were staying at until our new house was built and ready. So that was a different studio.    So all through those three different studios, thankfully I had the same mic, so I at least knew that I could get the same sound as long as I had a decent environment to record that in. And then also I will give props to myself because I had the audio files from five years ago. So I'm a big proponent of backing up your stuff and keeping an archive of it so you can listen and see what your performance was like, see what you sounded like and then be able to match it.    Gillian: Yeah, that's crazy. And so incredible that you have those files and I think that's one of the most important things for me personally too, just to keep everything backed up and know what's going on. But enlighten me, because I really don't know, like did you spend a lot of time working in studios before the pandemic? Like what was your experience like?    Anne: Oh, good question. So I started, gosh, I started back in the early 2000s doing voiceover, and that was when a home studio was like just a thought. It was not a requirement, it was just a thought. And you used to go to local studios to record things, and you would get your jobs based upon auditioning with either studios, or you could audition and then you would select a studio and you would rent space there, or you might be on a roster for a studio. So it's very interesting because as technology evolved and online became a thing and online casting became a thing, then all of a sudden home studios became a thing. Actually back in the day with Don LaFontaine, right, having to travel LA traffic all the time, he became, I think one of the first proponents of doing things remotely in a studio using ISDN technology.    So that I think really spurred everybody else on to start to get home studios because there's so many variables when you record in a studio. But the good thing about recording in a studio is that you go there and everything is beautiful, everything is sound -- everything is, well maybe not sound proof, but everything is optimized for recording so you didn't have to worry about it. And so for me, all of a sudden having to create a home studio or a space for me to record and sound good -- I'm not an audio engineer by trade, I didn't really study it in school. So for me that was a big hurdle in the beginning of my voiceover career. And I know it still is for voice talent that are coming up through the ranks, because that's not necessarily what we studied. We didn't study audio engineering. And of course it's a whole field.    So (laughs), it's not an easy field. And to set up a space in your home so that it can sound as good as a professional studio is really tough. So in the beginning when I went to studios to record and do my jobs, it was great, except for there was always the stress. Can I book the time in the studio? And if I had the time booked for me in the studio, that was great. All I had to do was make sure I got there on time. And then that became a stressful thing for me because of possible traffic. And back in the day, I didn't live in the LA area, but I did live in the New York area. And so traffic anywhere, just the stress of getting to the studio on time, 'cause that's the last thing. You know, that was the one piece of advice that everybody gave to starting voice talent was that don't be late, don't be late to your studio time. You wanna make sure that you show up and you're professional.    But you certainly didn't have to stress about anything other than just performing in front of the mic. And I think that was a big plus for going into studios. And people still go into studios today. And I know I love it when, even if I'm remotely connecting to a studio, I have the engineer taking care of all the sounds and levels and the files, and there's just so much to think about when you are at your home studio. And I'm rambling on here, but it's also a thing that when we are in our home studios, we have to think about things like, okay, well, it's our time to open those files, save the files, upload the files, send the files to our client, edit those files. And so that's something that when you don't go to a studio is now the responsibility of the voice actor.    Gillian: Well, that's crazy (laughs). I mean obviously a lot of these things I know to some extent and it seems like there's so many pros and cons for both. I mean, just hearing you talk about it, obviously we know showing up to record and not having to record yourself, it takes a burden off of it.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Because I record myself. I mean, I'm not a voice actor by any means, not at all. But I've been working on my music for my whole life, and I think when I was like 12 or 13 I got a little ProTools CD and like a tiny interface and that was what started it and the convenience of being at home. But really it is such a treat to go into a studio.   Anne: It's a luxury. I think I consider it a luxury.    Gillian: But also hearing you talk about it, I feel performance-wise, it's gotta be easier to deliver when you're not stressed about getting there on time, you're not stressed about, you know, needing to be in front of other people. I know for myself, I love recording myself, especially when I'm doing singing or vocals because it's super vulnerable and sometimes I don't wanna have to do that in front of somebody else, especially someone I don't know, a stranger. Like, it's a little bit more difficult. But it is interesting because I work at a lot of music studios, so we don't do a ton of voiceover, but whenever we do, we always apologize to the voice talent, 'cause we have this entire gigantic beautiful studio, and we're like, okay, we're gonna give you one mic, we're gonna stick you in the corner 'cause it has the best isolation and close the door, and that's where you're gonna get to go.    'Cause it really is true. You need a good mic, you need a good setup. But voice actors don't need that whole setup. And so I guess the question or conversation is gonna be about how do you take the pros of a pro studio and incorporate them into your home studio setup and make it so that you don't wish you were at the studio. You have everything you need right there.    Anne: Yeah, yeah. It's a journey, for sure, for a voice actor, because again, I don't have the audio engineering education that you do. I know how to perform behind the mic. And so I just remember for me setting up my initial home studios --and I didn't have an ear either for it. I think when you first begin, you just don't have an ear for what good sound sounds like, and I would record and I didn't think anything of it and sent my file off to someone and they're like, mm, yeah, no Anne, that's not gonna do, that's not acceptable. And I was mortified and then it was like, wow. So what do I have to do to make my studio produce sound that is viable for my client?    Gillian: Yes, definitely an interesting conversation and thought just because it's true, like voice actors, they do have to fill the role of the audio engineer. I do believe that. But I also don't think that all voice actors need to be audio engineers.    Anne: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.    Gillian: You need to know how to record yourself. You need to know how to see if you're clipping, if you're too quiet to hear, a little bit of distortion or hear if your voice just isn't sounding right. And obviously, you know, with auditions you have to edit, you have to make it sound comparable to the other auditions and maybe a final product. But really I feel like if you tell someone who's not an audio engineer, or if you told me five years ago before I was really an audio engineer, you have to do this, it's so overwhelming. So I feel like talking about what people actually need to know, versus what you hire a professional for, or what you just kind of say, okay, this is a setting within my DAW that does not pertain to me. I don't need to be using this to get proper file delivery -- I feel like that's really important for people to just, I think make peace with. Because if you spent all your time trying to learn how to be an audio engineer, you would have no time to be a voice talent or to be doing what you actually wanna be doing.    Anne: So true, so true. So then I think maybe starting from square one, if BOSSes out there are just getting started, and I know I work with people who are just getting started in the industry, and they'll connect to me for their sessions in an office with a headset, and there will be no studio whatsoever, and they will be okay, I'm building my studio. So for me, I will always say to them, well, I certainly have a ton of people that I can recommend to you that can help you build that studio.    But there are certain principles that I know, like I can now hear if they have good sound or not. And I think the first thing to consider is, in your home, like where is a quiet area? And I know that's such a lofty question to ask, but in reality what I've learned is that if you can go somewhere inside your home that's maybe on an inside wall, maybe something that's not necessarily externally connected or near windows or near doorways or near sounds that can turn on — I mean I thought I was really great in the beginning going into my office closet, but unfortunately I found that it was very close to where I would hear water when the toilet flushed upstairs. So it was like one of those things I kept hearing noises. And so I think the first thing is to find that spot in your home that is quiet and also yet convenient to a place where you can put a microphone and also your computer, 'cause you do need your interface, your computer and your microphone.    So where can you put that and set that down so that you can record in a space and also have the functionality of being able to record into your computer, and then obviously hit the start record, stop, record, and all that stuff. And also wear a pair of headphones in the beginning so that you can kind of find out what your sound is like. All those things that people don't think about, they're like, well, I'm gonna put my studio here in my closet, but then all of a sudden their desk is like at the other side of the room, and they don't have a long enough cable.    It could be that simple, right? (laughs) They don't have a long enough cable for their headphones, and then they're like, well what do I do? Or they don't have a long enough cable for their interface is sitting on desk completely across the room, and then well do they bring the interface into the room? So it becomes all these different questions. But I think understanding that your spot in your home I think needs to be in a quiet area first. Maybe not near a window or not near anything that's within a wall that could be making noise like a heater or air conditioning or a generator, that kind of thing. What are your thoughts on that, Gillian?    Gillian: It's so funny 'cause the like doing vocals in a closet or whatever, it's a cliche because it works. Having the padding of the clothing and typically that ends up being a quiet spot in your house, but it's not sustainable to work in your closet forever. And all those things that you mentioned are totally important. You have to have a computer, all of those things. And don't take me for an example if anyone's watching the video; I'm in my office. I don't do recording in here, but I'm like by a window by a ton of noise. It's terrible. But I think finding the right spot to get set up in is totally important.    But the most important thing I think, and you can let me know what you think, but for the most part for doing voiceover work, obviously you need a microphone, but your computer, your internet connection, those are like hugely important things because how fast your computer is, how good it is at processing audio speeds, how well it connects to your interface — like all of those super technical things within — I know I have like a brand new MacBook — those are gonna really matter for how your audio sounds when you deliver it to clients. And you can have the nicest setup in the world, but if you don't have internet, or I know a lot of people also do like ethernet connections, you're not gonna make it to the job. Obviously if you're just auditioning and sending it later, that's a different scenario. But I mean, how important is it to you to obviously be able to connect to clients? That's like the number one.    Anne: Well, I think that's probably one of the most overlooked aspects of being a successful voice actor is your internet. And especially now with needing to have high capacity audio recording features like Source Connect or ipDTL or whatever connection you might be using to get to a studio — that's if you're connecting to a studio -- you need to have a reliable internet connection. And I remember I very much was adamant when I came to my new place here, because it was being built, I specified that there were three specific ethernet jacks placed on the wall, on each wall. So literally I made sure that I had ethernet hardwired, connected before I moved in because I knew it was gonna be easiest to do it then.    Because the people who move into homes, and they don't have ethernet connections, then they usually have to hire an electrician or somebody that can find out that they can run the wire through the wall to get to their modem or their router, or they have to move the router into their office and then other things become a problem. So ethernet and your hardwire connections are so important. And I don't see the technologies advancing anytime soon. Like wireless technology is great and convenient, but it's still not as great as a straight wired connection. I mean you cannot beat an ethernet connection or a fiber connection to your router that gets your data there fast.    Gillian: I think it's just sturdiness. It's true, wifi goes out or it's finicky sometimes. So those are are really important things. And obviously having the foresight to know that you need to have ethernet and all those things installed is really important. But for the people that didn't think about this, are already living somewhere, don't know what to do, find a spot where you feel comfortable, find a spot that's kind of away from extraneous noise. And I personally don't think, if you're just starting out in voiceover, you need to splurge on a booth or anything right away. I think there's a ton of DIY options that we can talk about, but I think that's also a lot of pressure, or at least from what I'm hearing. I'm also like half in the voiceover world, half out of it. So there's a lot of questions that I'm probably gonna have for you about like why people say certain things. And I know kind of random but kind of on the conversation is a lot of audio people that I know are very adamant about not updating your computer or having really, really old hardware. I understand the processes --   Anne: To support the equipment, right?   Gillian: -- behind it. Yeah. But I personally don't live that way. I update my computer. I have new stuff and there are times, like when I, I updated to a newer version of ProTools or a new version of Mac, like the Mac OS that was not supportive of ProTools, and I had a couple weeks where it was having a little bit of bugs, which is frustrating. But definitely for security of myself and all of the other things going on in my life, I don't think that you need to be using a 2010 computer.    Anne: Well, I agree. Normally I would agree with you 'cause I worked in technology for like 20 years. I would always say --   Gillian: No, no, tell me.    Anne: Update. Update.    Gillian: I'm not saying that right. This is just the way that I work. (laughs)    Anne: Update, and I love being updated to the latest and the greatest 'cause I figure it's getting rid of a lot of bugs. However, sometimes when Apple doesn't update, because I work with Apples, it's not conducive to working with my hardware for my studio. So my Apollo, which is my interface, and I have backup interfaces, but right now the latest release of Mac OS is not compatible with it. And I can't afford to struggle for two weeks. I need to have something that allows me to connect and record. And so I will wait on the update until I find out -- I usually check all the -- there's a lot of great groups out there on the internet that talk about should you update your hardware for this new release? Is it compatible with the latest release for the Apollo? And I think it's wise to keep your eyes on that.    I don't think you should be 10 releases behind for sure. But (laughs), I do think that before you upgrade, to just take a look and ask around to see if things are compatible. That's important, especially if you're required to record every day in your studio, and you don't wanna have to go to your backup recording. And that's the other thing too is that I'm very much into having a backup recording setup, because I've had things happen to me enough times. But people just starting off getting into voice acting, they probably don't even have their first setup (laughs) set up, let alone a backup set of equipment.    Gillian: So let me just talk to you on that for a second. I personally don't have any Apollo, Apollo or UAD stuff for that reason because I'm so nervous to be stuck without it. And I totally agree with you, because when I updated my computer without realizing that ProTools -- I mean I'm fortunate enough that I have five or six other places that I can go use ProTools. It wasn't like -- and it was working. It just, there were certain plug-ins that weren't working. But that's not the end of the world.    Anne: Right.    Gillian: But the lesson that I learned from that was, oh my gosh, never update without checking because it's true all the programs that you're using -- and I think within Apple they will say what is compatible and what's not compatible with these new releases, and that is totally smart person way to do it. And you get burned to realize that you can't do it, which is what happened to me and I'm sure has happened to you.    Anne: You only have to get burned once. Right?    Gillian: You get burned once and then you're like, this sucks. I'm so dumb, I have my features and now I can't do my job.    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: Which is sucky.    Anne: Exactly.    Gillian: So learn from our mistakes, don't make your own. But there are some people, and I've met them, people that I work with too -- I mean one of these studios, we had a 10 years old ProTools rig, and when you get into the large professional studios, they are upwards of like $10-, $20-, $30,000 for new ProTools rig like expensive.    Anne: Oh yeah. And I'm sure that's why they don't upgrade to the latest and greatest all the time.    Gillian: Well, the old system was super sturdy, was working really well. And then we upgraded and there were some glitches and bugs and things that come with updating. I don't know why. I just heard people that I work with grumbling like, ah, you know, the old system was so great, now we have the new system and it keeps crashing. And so the, there is this conversation about not upgrading for like 10 years. I don't know if you've heard that within audio engineers.    Anne: That's a long time. Yeah.    Gillian: So if anyone is giving you that advice, I'm just gonna give you the counter-advice so that you can take both of them and make an educated choice about what you wanna be doing. You don't need to be doing what I'm doing and have the newest stuff. If you have an Apollo, you definitely can't always have the most updated, because it's a little bit behind and everything that's not within Apple will always be a little bit behind. But just make your own choices, people. (laughs) Listen to us, gather the info and make a good choice.    Anne: Yeah. Make an educated choice. And I, and I agree like there's always that fine line of when do you update your technology, like when does that happen? And I'm very used to just from my previous jobs -- I mean I was always living on the edge. I was always trying the new stuff. And so I'm very bold when it comes to trying new stuff. But I'm also smart enough, I've been burned enough times to know that I need backups of everything and then backups of the backups. And so I'm actually really thankful for that experience. And BOSSes out there, I say backups of backups, backups of your files, backups of your equipment, backups of your internet connection, because the one time will come when you really need it, and you won't have that backup. And that only has to happen once. I'm so old, it's happened to me multiple times.    So I feel good that I've learned from it. And so while I feel as though I'm really close to the edge on everything I possibly can be, I'm also smart about when to get on that edge with equipment and stuff that I need on a day-to-day basis. So yeah, absolutely. So when you're looking for that space in your home, that quiet space, that space that's comfortable for you and also hopefully quiet for you, right, for that home studio, then you start preparing it, right, acoustically. So Gillian, what can people do to prepare their home studios acoustically? What sorts of things can they do to have sound absorption? Like if they're in a closet, obviously they can have their clothing which is a great absorber of sound. What other things can they use?    Gillian: There are a ton of things that you can use. I know there's a few DIY boots in the sense that they're not thousands and thousands of dollars. They're like some PVC pipe and some packing blankets that will kind of isolate you, which is great.    Anne: Sure.    Gillian: I think the issue with the way that homes are built versus how sound works is you get the windows, you get all the boxy walls, and you have all these parallel surfaces, and you talk, and all the sound just bounces from side to side to side. So the whole point of having treatment on the walls and treatment around you is to stop all of that reverberation --   Anne: Reflection.    Gillian: Yeah. And the reflections. And just capture it. And really a lot of studios will be built with like diagonal walls and all of these things to just go against it. I have never built a studio, so I can't say that I've done it, but I've been in a lot of places where I'm like, that wall's really weird. Why is it like that?    Anne: Yeah.    Gillian: And of course it's not for aesthetic, it's for sound. So just making, making sure that you are blocking yourself from any windows are really reflective, just any sort of padding on the walls would be really -- I mean I see yours, all of your stuff in the background. For anyone who's watching, Anne has all those nice little --   Anne: Panels.    Gillian: Yeah. The sound panels that just absorb everything. And there's also these things that we use in studios that I haven't seen any voice actors use, so I'm gonna have to ask you about it. They're like reflection filters. Have you ever heard of them?    Anne: Does that go on a mic?    Gillian: It goes on a mic stand.    Anne: Yes, I have. I have.   Gillian: Have you seen I them?    Anne: Yeah, I have seen them and I have not had good success with them, and I actually hate them. I hate them with a passion.    Gillian: Okay, tell me about it because I'm just curious.    Anne: I think that they can work nicely in a studio that already has some acoustic absorption built into it. And then if it's in a large area, if it's in a large space and you need a little bit more, I think that they can work nicely. However, what most voice actors try to do is use it for their studio and then it just becomes the only thing that is used, and it becomes very close to the mic. And first of all, they're really bulky on the stands. I had something called a reflection filter and I paid a good amount of money for it. And like 300 some odd dollars and that was 10 years ago.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: And it was very bulky. It weighted my microphone stand in a way that kept falling over. And then also it did not create the kind of sound absorption that I liked because it wasn't enough. It just wasn't enough. And then it became inhibitive in a way because I felt like I had something like right here in front of my face. It was very close, and I feel like it just didn't do a good enough job 'cause I think your absorption material needs to be thick.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: And so when they make the reflection filters, it's either thick or even if it's not thick, then it's not enough absorption, I don't believe. One thing that I learned through the years of going through, I'm gonna say, three or four different versions of a home studio is -- and by the way, the window, believe it or not, my studio right now is built in an office. It's a room within a room and right in in front of me.    Gillian: Great.    Anne: A room in a room is great.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: Right in front of me is a wall that had a side window on it. And we actually, before we built the studio, we frosted the window so it wouldn't look silly because we had a studio in front of it, and people would just look at a piece of plywood or (laughs), you know, so it wasn't attractive. So we frosted the window and then we actually put Rockwool insulation and then a drywall on the out. So we created a whole encasement for the window.    Gillian: Wow.    Anne: So that that blocked any potential sound that could potentially get in. And then we put the studio right up against it. And so that's how we blocked our window. So we made sure there was absolutely no way that sound could get in from the outside on these walls. So it's a room within a room. And so my acoustic panels are four inches thick. And they have Rockwool insulation and that's something you can get at Home Depot. It's awesome. It's really cost effective. It's not expensive. And these were all DIY panels that were made. And I'm gonna give a big shout out to Tim Tippetts. He's got a great YouTube video on how to make them. They're all four inches thick and they sit just slightly off the wall.    Gillian: Yeah.    Anne: So that way you have a little bit of spacing in between the panels and the wall for the sound to kind of just -- if it bounces on that wall, it'll come back in through the panel, which is four inches thick. So that you get I think the highest amount of sound absorption that you can using the panels. And if they aren't using the panels and they're using blankets, again, those blankets are giving you a certain level of absorption. Not quite as much I think as the four inch thick panels with Rockwool in there, but again, it's your choice. And I hang them everywhere. I have a ton of them in here. I also have clouds that are up above me with the same kind of thing. And then outside of my studio, because I want the outside of my studio to be quiet as well, I also have panels hung out there as well.    Gillian: See, that is just like an impressive setup, and thank you, Tim Tippetts. I know he was the previous BOSS audio guest, and that's awesome that he did all of those things for your studio. And that's just what I would say the difference between a Pro VO setup and a beginner VO setup. You gotta start somewhere, and I think that isolation is really important. And obviously, any advice we give, and this will be what I keep saying on the series, is just take what we say and apply it to your situation. Because unless we're working one-on-one, like either Anne or I working with you, there's no way to know exactly what your situation is.    But when you're starting out, I think that — I mean even if a few people built those things that Tim has a video on it and built those panels and just had them in your home office, behind you, around you, it'll help. You don't need to start with a room within a room, even though that's an amazing setup and it sounds great. And all studios are built with rooms within rooms and floating floors so that there's no sound coming from the outside world. But yeah, I think we got a really good foundation of home studio verse pro studio, how to get your space set up. And I think on the next episode, we should really dive in for the BOSSes on like what you need for a beginner home studio setup. What do you think?    Anne: Absolutely. So guys, when you are thinking about getting into voice acting, you must also think about where in your home is a good place for that studio, because you can have an amazing voice, but if you can't deliver the audio, a good quality audio to your client, you're not gonna be a very successful voice actor. So absolutely very important. But one thing I will say to give you all hope, in case you're overwhelmed at this point, is that once you get a home studio setup, like I have a home studio setup, you're pretty much good to go. I mean, your stress is over. You don't have to worry about it much after that, outside of your equipment failing, but your space, if your space is set up, it's set up, right?    Gillian: The investment is forever.    Anne: Right? Yeah. Foregoing any kind of natural disaster, right, or emergency, it stands and it will absorb your sound appropriately, and you won't have to worry about it again. So that's what I love (laughs).    Gillian: Yeah. And I love, Anne, all you shared with me because obviously I work in all these big studios, but I can't say that I've been given a tour of anyone's booth yet (laughs). So you know, hearing how you set it up and all of those things, I think it'd be great for BOSSes to know, and you taught me a little bit today too.    Anne: Awesome. Well, Gillian, thank you so much. I'm looking forward to our next episode. BOSSes, simple mission, big impact, 100 voices, one hour, $10,000 four times a year. BOSSes, visit 100Voiceswhocare.org to join in. All right. Also, a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes, like Gillian and I; find out more at ipdtl.com. Thanks so much, guys. We'll see you next week. Bye.    Gillian: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Long before you lay eyes on your next script, you should be thinking about how your improv skills can help you stand out. Anne & Lau share their practical advice for integrating improv into your voice over work + act out some improved scenes for the Bosses! Improv is about being in the moment and responding to what is happening around you. Rehearsed speech sounds unnatural and stilted because it doesn’t reflect the way people actually speak. If a script is written the way you’d like it to be written, great! But if it isn’t written that way, then it is still your responsibility to make it believable. Improv requires imagination & creativity, which are both important elements of succeeding as a voice actor. Bosses, your voices are vehicles for storytelling, emotion, and world building.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I have with me my very special guest co-host Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey Anne.    Anne: Hey Lau. How are you?    Lau: I'm awesome. Great to be back.    Anne: Ah, it's good to have you back Lau.    Lau: Okay, here's the situation. Ready? Here we go. You just bought a car, and you're picking it up for the first time. They even sprayed that new car smell. And it's shining and gorgeous. Had a little bow on top. Give me a moment of pre-life. Like what's the exclamation you make before you speak?    Anne: (screams) Oh my God, I'm so excited! I can't wait to get my car today!    Lau: Oh, and I would do this. I would go, ooooh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to get my car today.    Anne: I think it was important. I had some good physicality back there behind my mic here.    Lau: We both did. We both were like exploding.    Anne: So what is that, BOSSes? What are we talking about? Mmm?   Lau: Mmm, I think that's improv city right there. Improv.    Anne: Improv. So, so important to everything we do. I'm gonna say so important because, it really helps us. Would you say Lau, 90%, if not more, of casting specs are calling for believable, authentic, real? And I think honestly, in order for us to be real (laughs), improv is so very important to be able to create what's happening in the scene, your reaction, your emotion. I mean, that's really what makes us stand out from all the other people auditioning. Right?    Lau: Right. I mean, speakers in the larger world outside of our industry, call it impromptu speaking, being able to think off the cuff, think on your feet, being able to think on the fly. Every time you hear someone say that, we know it's a tough skill for people. We know it's not a natural ability for most people to be under these unnatural circumstances and just think on the fly. Right? But it's a great tool, right, for voiceover talent to be able to do that.    Anne: And you need it for everything. Guys, I don't want you to think that this is just for, I don't know, video games or character animation. You need improv for everything you do, including medical narration. Just saying. I’m like the biggest proponent of being in the scene, because we are so used to -- I think, those of you that just got into voiceover and you don't necessarily have acting experience — we're so used to picking up a piece of paper with words and reading the words out loud, and listen to what I just said. We're used to taking a look at the piece of paper and reading the words out loud. And that's what you don't wanna do, right, as a voiceover actor. You want to be in a scene. You want to sound as if you are there and speaking authentically and naturally and believably.    And so you can't just pick up a piece of paper with words that you've never seen before and just read them from left to right. You always have to put yourself in a scene. And that includes -- gosh, when I'm doing telephony script, and I'm saying thank you for calling. Like I put myself in a scene. I want people to really feel as though I'm thankful that they've called me (laughs). And improv helps me do that.    Lau: Yes. And you know, a lot of times people will say to me, but Lau, I don't get it. Like, I can't improv as a voiceover talent. Everything is scripted. They're never gonna ask me to improv when I'm auditioning or when I'm doing a gig. So why do I need to know this? I say, well, wait a second. What about all your prep time? You and I were just talking about this, Anne, how important it is to think of yourselves as an actor. You're a voice actor; you're acting a role. So when you're acting, you have to have technique, tools and technique to call upon to find your character development. How do I find that? So improvisation is a tool that helps us find the authentic, true character, sound, connection, quality, tones. It helps us find that. And then once we find it, we can pull it out like just outta your toolbox. You can pull it out whenever you wanna use it. And just that exercise we just did right now, the pre-life of exclamation, just that can potentially book you a gig.    Anne: Oh gosh, yes. And it's so interesting because I tell my students all the time, I'm like, okay, what's your moment before? Right? And I could be referencing a script that is the driest corporate narration script in the world. And it makes no sense because in the real world, I would never say these words. And that's what I constantly get from -- I would never say these words in the real world. But okay, we're not in the real world. Okay? We're acting. And we need to create the world in which those words would sound natural. And even if they're not written naturally, you have to create the scene.    And that I think, is so important. You're not preparing the script to sound a particular way. You can read the specs, and they're like, oh, we want youthful, millennial, or maybe sound with gravitas. Stop preparing that sound. What you need to do is to prepare the character, prepare the scene, prepare what's happening that's going to make you react, right, in such a way. that might portray those characteristics that are being called out. And I have so many students that get frustrated. I'll say, what's your moment before? And they'll be like, uh, I have no clue. Like, doesn't say anything in the script. Guess what, guys? Here's where you got — your imagination comes into play, right?    Lau: Yes.    Anne: So important. The imagination in developing a scene, develop a scene that makes sense to you.    Lau: Yes. And improv is an acting tool. It's an actor technique. And it's very challenging to do improv and be lazy. Like you can't be lazy and do improv well, because you're talking imagination. It has to kick in and connect. And oftentimes that requires energy, focus and speed in order to do that. And it's hard to do it if you're not engaged, if you're tired, if you're lazy, if you're disconnected. We oftentimes will get feedback for an actor from like casting that will say, ah, I don't like it. They feel disconnected, they don't feel connected somehow. And I always think of improv, 'cause improv is a wonderful source of connection to another person. How do we credibly and authentically connect to another person? Well, we practice it. It sounds like an oxymoron. You have to practice improv, but you do. You do.    Anne: You do. Absolutely.   Lau: You have to practice that skill. Right, Anne?    Anne: Absolutely. And the improv doesn't just happen at the beginning of the script. It's not just something you do to give yourself some pre-roll. Okay? Because if you start a script, and I say this constantly, especially with long format narration, when you are voicing something for a long period of time, you're in a scene, you need to stay in that scene. You can't just create the scene and then just read. Right? Because all too often people will create the scene, they'll be at the start of it, and then they will do a monologue. It becomes a monologue where they forget that there might be other things happening in the scene, or there might be other people in the scene that they're acting with. And just because they're behind the mic, right, and they're not physically there -- like if they were on stage, it would be easy to see that you're with somebody, right? And you're bouncing ideas off of somebody, and it's a back and forth, like a real improv class or a workshop.    But behind the mic, I think we tend to forget that there's other people in that scene with us. There's other things happening. There's movement. And if you are in a monologue, right -- I feel like monologues, unless they're extremely well written, right, are not as engaging (laughs) unless they're extremely well written. There are a lot of scripts that are not necessarily written for monologue. Right? It's like, here's my speech on this product, and you know what I mean? Like, here's my monologue about the product. Now how engaging is that? Right? If somebody's not interested in the product, you have to get them interested in the product. It has to be a story. And that story has to happen in between the sentences too. Right? You cannot stop just at the beginning.    Lau: Okay, I have a great improv. I have a great improv based off what you just said. All right. Peeps, listen in. Sell the product, whatever it is that is on your script. Sell the product or service. And do it completely in your own words. Like get rid of the script. Completely re-envision it. But remember, it's not just about saying the words or the lines. You have to persuade us. Like you have to make it feel like this is something that's super important to you, that you believe in and that you want us to know about. Right? So whether it's like a blouse or a car, or a cheese, or whatever it is, I would love to hear you talk about that from your own perspective, your own point of view, and really connect to it. And a lot of times, I know you get this, Anne, in coaching too, “but I don't, I don't eat cheese,” “I don't wear blouses; I'm a guy,” and“I don't drive cars.” Especially like that.    Anne: Yeah. I don't care much about the brand. I always get people that say, yeah, no, I don't really worry about brands. I'm like, okay. But for a living, you might be selling a particular brand. And so it's important, right, that you're educated about the brand, or you have to have some interest in it. You have to have some passion in it. And by passion, I don't mean overextended passion or over the top passion, unless it's called for, right, in the script. Because a lot of times for us to be believable and authentic, we have to sound authentic. So am I constantly like, oh my God, this product is amazing! I mean, I can't be that. Right? I can't. But I need to be as authentic as I can in my improv, right, in selling that product.    Lau: Well, you know, we should do, Anne? We should demo, we should do a quick demo. We should take something like a, an object, a simple object. We should have like a a 15 or 30-second conversation about that object.    Anne: Okay. So I always (laughs), I always have my lipstick. Okay. I always have my product here.    Lau: Okay. And the listener, maybe someone who doesn't wear a lipstick or doesn't care about lipstick, or maybe you're a man listening in, you don't ever -- okay, that's fine. But we're gonna have a conversation right now, Anne, about that. And it's all improv, right?    Anne: Okay, okay. So Lau. All right, so this Chanel, okay, typically inexpensive brand, right? Typically, most people will say, oh, it's way — this, this lipstick might be way overpriced. However, for me, I love this lipstick. I love this lipstick because I only have to put it on once. And so to me, the savings of time for this is amazing. I don't have to continually reapply my lipstick. I can drink water, I can eat, and I don't have to put it on over and over again. And it just stays on and it looks good. What are your thoughts? Would you, would you pay, would you pay $34 for this?    Lau: I would pay more than that, because I'm looking at it on your lips right now, and it's gorgeous. I love the gloss, I love the staying power. The color matches your skin tone perfectly.    Anne: And look, I can drink.    Lau: I love it. And you can drink, right? And it probably doesn't even leave residue on the cup.   Anne: And it’s still there. And it doesn't feel dry.    Lau: It's still there.    Anne: It doesn't feel dry.    Lau: And I think it's economical for what it's offering you.    Anne: Well, right?   Lau: I would get it.    Anne: My time is worth money, right? And if it, and if this is gonna save me time, right, from reapplying lipstick, or if it's gonna give me confidence because I feel like, oh God, you know how some lipstick will just kind of, you know, come off your lips, and you'll only have like a portion of on your lips, and then all of a sudden you get in the car and you look at yourself in the rearview mirror and you're like, oh my God! (laughs), my lips look horrible.    Lau: They’re gone.   Anne: Why didn't, why didn't my best friend tell me about that? So this, I don't have to worry about that. And so the ease, my mind being eased that I don't have to worry that it's come off and it's flaked off and it looks weird, or it's, God forbid, it's on my teeth. (laughs). No, it doesn't happen.    Lau: You took the words right outta my mouth. I was gonna say, your lipstick is never on your teeth. I'm impressed by that alone, and the fact that it's not all over your face like mine can be, by the end of the day, my lips are all over, you know, everywhere. So I, I just think that it's very cool for you to hold on to this and not go to other products, but really stay with it. Because it works, right?    Anne: Have I convinced you?    Lau: Now here's the thing. It's like, we do this in our daily life, right? We do this every day in our daily life.    Anne: That was improv. That was -- by the way, BOSSes, that was improv by the way.    Lau: That's all improv.    Anne: And that, I think if you are absolutely thinking about how would I sell this product? Like how would I voice this product? I mean, you can just riff (laughs), you know, I really love this product because it's amazing. And the funny thing is, is that Lau, you and I had a back and forth. And I think for improv, you have to also improv, if you don't have anybody with you and you are trying to improv your audition, I think you create that second person that you're having the conversation with. It's very much a technique that I use to sound conversational and just sound natural or believable, is to actually play a part with somebody else.    Because that's what you would do -- if you had a script and you were on stage, you'd be able to bounce your ideas back and forth. There would be an acknowledgement or a smile, or a nod or a conversation between two people. And so you have that movement, you have that scene that you can then improv, right? And once you improv, your voice takes on, especially like with you and I, it takes on the emotion and the point of view, which really, really brings out a script versus a read. This lipstick is wonderful, right? Versus, I mean, I'm like a robot saying that, but when I'm really like, oh, this is amazing, this is wonderful — it completely shows up in my voice. And so the fact that I've created in my mind this improv back and forth with my imaginary person that I'm telling about this lipstick is really makes all the difference.    Lau: It does. It does, Anne, because that's the power of improv. It's the personalization of it. When you're gonna say to me, but I don't use lipstick, Lau. I don't wear makeup -- I'd say, that's okay. Now let's engage your imagination. What if, — the magic “what if,” right? Stanislavsky's magic if -- what if you did wear makeup? What if you did wear lipstick? You know, when you were a little kid, you thought that way. And you weren't wearing lipstick or makeup (laughs).That's the irony, right?    Anne: And here's the deal. Transfer this lipstick into, let's say, a Halloween costume, right? You put green on your face if you were gonna be be the Incredible Hulk or, whatever that is, right? So consider that, make that part of your imaginative world, right? And how did that make you feel? I think there's always that, like, did it make you feel confident? Did it make you feel good? Were you excited to go show that off to your friends? And how does that translate in your voice? How does that make you sound — first of all, it's gonna make you sound connected, right?    Because when you're disconnected from the material, right, there's no emotion flowing in that voice. There's no emotion in that word. There's so many technical things that happen to words when you inflect an emotion onto them, or a point of view, right? So it's like, this is amazing. Like just the fact, amazing. Like I, it's not like I didn't say, this is amazing. No. I said, this is amazing. And so the rhythm changed, the intonation changed, so many technical things changed about my voice. And that is something when a casting director is listening to you, right? That is going to hit their ears and go, ah, there's an actor. And I swear to God, right? We know, for the first few words out of the mouth, we know if you're acting.    Lau: Oh, yeah.    Anne: Right?    Lau: Oh, yeah. And start with something that is known to you, personalize it to you, like give yourself a quick scenario that you lived, that you know, if it's possible. So let's go back to the lipstick, Anne. Let's say I'm a man, right? Or someone who doesn't wear lipstick or whatever. Okay. But my favorite aunt wears lipstick, and every time she would kiss me, I would literally smell it. I would smell the lipstick, I would notice the color of it. I always think of that color when I think of my aunt. So I'm personalizing it into something I know, and something that means something to me so that I can go into other scenarios that are a bit farther away from me.    Anne: Absolutely. Absolutely.   Lau: But if I don't start with any frame of reference at all, then I get that falseness, I get that falsehood of like, let me just sound like I love lipstick.    Anne: This lipstick — yeah, exactly. And I think that voice actors, if you're just getting into the industry and you're not realizing just how important this is to really make your auditions stand out and make you connect with the copy -- it's incredibly, incredibly important that you spend time. Like I know so many people are like, oh, I did 60 auditions today, or I did a billion auditions today. Well, I want you to take five minutes before you start, before anything comes out of your mouth (laughs). And I want you to first of all, research the product. If you know what the product is. Sometimes you don't know what the product is. Sometimes the script is obscure and you're not exactly sure what it is. And that makes it even more challenging for you to improv, right? Because you're trying to figure out what is this even talking about? And I know that's just the case for a lot of audition scripts that come along and we don't know what it's even talking about.    So then what we have to do is look at that script even closer. Every single word on that script has a meaning. And it may seem that you have no idea what it's talking about, and it's ridiculous. But honestly, somebody was paid probably a lot of money (laughs) to sit there and write every single word to create that brand message or to get that brand message out. And you need to really look at those words and think, what do they mean? What could it mean? And can I improv a scene, right, so that they would sound logical and realistic and have meaning and create emotion?   Lau: Absolutely. And let's say you don't do this at all. Let's say you say, I can't do improv at all. I can just do the lines --do this. This is a very famous actor method. Do substitution. Like how do I get to something personal? Let me take this little thing of lipstick. I have my own on my side, lipstick on my side. And this is no longer a lipstick. What this is to me is an EpiPen. So this EpiPen can save my child's life when she has a problem and get stung by a bee. And you say, well, how does that work? It's lipstick. I said, well, I can still do an improv with Anne and talk about this as if it's an EpiPen, but it'll sound like, I can't live without this. I really can't live without this. I always have this in my cabinet ready to go. Day or night, it goes with me. And you'd think I was talking about the lipstick. But I'm really talking about the EpiPen.    Anne: Sure, absolutely.    Lau: Try that in terms of your improv in your daily life, when you need to connect with someone's situation, someone's stuff that they're bringing up that you don't really have any idea about. You haven't lived through it, you don't use it. You don't know about it. And you ask them questions about it. But think about what that is to you in your life. What's the substitution in your life that connects to what they're talking about? That's how powerful improv can be. It can make you friends. It can win you jobs. It can make you a lot of money.   Anne: And something else that can help you -- I feel like I see this every episode, Lau — Google is your friend. Anne GanGoogle, right? Google is your friend. Like if you, if there's any indication of what you're talking about in the script, or there's words in there that you're not sure what it's even about, Google. I mean, I can't tell you how helpful it is to --if you're not familiar with the brand and the brand name is there, you can go to the website, and you'll get a great visual representation of what that is and who they might serve. And that will also help you to place your improv and place your scene in a place that's logical.    I mean, it has to be logical, right? I mean, you want it to sound natural and believable. And so you should have a little bit of education about the product or the company, or maybe what's their demographic? Are they selling to young people? Are they selling to a more mature audience? And that can help inform the scene for you that you are going to create. But you must, you must use your brain. And it's not easy, right? It is sometimes it is. Like I rack my brain trying to figure out what is this saying? Like I don't even know. This is so ethereal and so out there that I don't even know what this is saying. But I, I find that if I keep rereading the lines, somewhere along the line, if I look at the important nouns, if I look at the objects, if I look at the emotion of it all, I can really read more into it to try to figure out, okay, this would make sense. Now, if this was a storyline where somebody was upset that something wasn't going right, and this product -- like the EpiPen, right -- was truly meaningful and could really help save a life.    And so I think if you just continually look at the words, see how the words fit together, and then if you have any clues whatsoever in the script, go ahead and Google it. And that's gonna help you find out maybe what the brand is. What do they actually do? Do they serve multiple demographics? What are the colors? I mean, you can just go into like the visually, what are the colors on the website? What is their tone of voice on the webpage? You know, the verbiage on the webpage? How do they approach their clients? And I think that will really help to help you build the scene that you must improv.    Lau: Yeah. And if you go to their YouTube channel, you're gonna see visuals of what the culture is like, what the sound, feeling, environment is like. I mean, put yourself in that environment. That's the old actor Johnny Depp type exercise where the method actors would always go to the place that their character is in and just feel what the place feels like. Well that's kind of important because if I'm doing a lot of corporate work, and I'm getting a lot of corporate narration or corporate scripts, and I've never worked in corporate America, and I have no idea what it's like, just go somewhere, be in a big tall glass building with people who wear suits and see what it feels like, right? See what they eat and drink, hear how they talk. Or just go to a Starbucks. You'll see 'em in Starbucks, hear how they talk. So that you're not necessarily mimicking them, but you're getting an essence, a suggestion of where you wanna head towards that may be very different from your world and your existence. You wanna talk the lingo, have a sense of that.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely. You wanna be able to align to the environment, right? And I think, Lau, if I said to you, is improv important in promos?    Lau: Improv is important in everything,    Anne: Right. So why? I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'm thinking my students would be like, yeah, but you don't really need to improv in a promo, or you don't need to improv when you're doing a phone system. And I would tend to disagree with you heartily. I think improv is needed everywhere. I'd like your take on that, Lau.    Lau: I agree. As I said, I think it's an immense tool to find your interpretation. Like if I'm gonna give more than one take, or let's say I'm just dealing with an in-house client. I'm not auditioning; they're just calling me and I'm giving them takes, I'm gonna say, wait a second, who's calling? Like, who are the people that are calling? What if I have an impatient person calling going to the system, right? I have a person who's a seller or pitcher calling? What if I have a young teenage person calling the system? How am I coming across to them? How would I speak to them differently and what their different needs are? That would be an improv tool that I would start to be utilizing in that telephony or whatever system.   Anne: And if you're a voice for a healthcare system, right? Okay, somebody's calling for an appointment, right? They're nervous, they're not feeling well, or you know what I mean? They want the results of their test. Understand who it is that you are going to be talking to, right, and then talk to them. I always say that when I read the back of pharmaceutical labels, I do medical narration, and I want to be able to speak to that person who is nervously looking at the back of the bottle and saying, oh my God, I have all of these symptoms. That's me, by the way. I have every single symptom ever known. And who do I call in case I die? That kind of thing. I'm taking that lightly, but I really do think about the person that's going to be looking at this bottle and what I'm voicing and I'm improv-ing, right? I'm playing that scene out in my head so that I can voice it better.    And so that's for medical narration, and for promos, you know, tonight, like if you're doing like a television promos, right? Still, you've gotta get into the mindset of who's the audience that watches this show, and how can you -- hey, oh my God, did you catch the latest episode of — that kind of thing? You've got to get into their mindset 'cause you're talking to them. And that is where improv will come into play, right? Know that network, know that show. Be the person that watches that show and talk to them.    Lau: And if anything, if you don't believe in anything we're saying, just talk and listen to people talking because that's one big, huge improvisation. Conversation is just one big, huge improv. Life is one big, huge improv 'cause we don't really know what's coming up next. So you don't have to perform, you don't have to act, you don't have to do anything other than listen, observe and communicate. Because then you're improv-ing.    Anne: And I will tell you that every other month, or at least once a quarter, if you join the VO Peeps, we do have a workshop that covers improv. We do it. I think it's necessary to continually just keep your skills up. And I know, Lau, I'm sure you have something is part of your group as well?   Lau: We do. We have a Monday night improv mania that runs. It's a lot of actors, a lot of VO talent. A lot of people come in, even just people who are in business come in and they just want to --   Anne: And it's so much fun.    Lau: Fun. Yeah. They wanna free themselves, wanna be free.    Anne: And that's the thing. Yeah, improv should be fun. It shouldn't be stressful. And the only way that you're gonna make it fun is by doing it really. And just getting yourself used to it and getting those responses quicker and quicker and quicker. And thinking off the cuff. And it will always help you especially — I've just had a conversation with Dave Fennoy talking about video games. You know, the storyline and video games is constantly evolving and changing. Improv is huge. You may prepare your character for one set of scenes, and then when you get to the studio to record somebody's changed the script on you. And that could be for video games, that could be for commercial, it could be for any script where you might have last minute changes. So I think it's so important, guys, that we are well-versed in improv, know how important it is and go out there and practice it.    Lau: I love it. Here we go. Ready for the improv of life.   Anne: The Improv of life. You guys, I'm gonna give a great big sponsor shout-out to ipDTL. You too can connect and network like a BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And I also want to give a shout-out to 100 Voices Who Care. This is your chance to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. 100voiceswhocare.org to commit. Thanks so much, guys. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

There are very few things in life that are black and white. The world is full of nuances, nuances that can be challenging when they come up in business. Anne & Lau dive into the emotions & decision making process that happens when you make a decision to protect the ethics of your business. Most people don’t want to talk about ethics in business. They are uncomfortable with the topic and don’t know how to approach it, but discussion is one of the only ways to bring awkward subjects into the light. No decision is without trade-offs. It usually means losing something, whether that's time, money or energy. When faced with a tough decision, ask yourself how this feels in your gut? Is it the right thing for you? For the future of your business? Remember, there are no right or wrong answers. Only decisions that feel right or wrong for you at this moment in time.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am excited today to bring back to the show Lau Lapides.    Lau: Hey.   Anne: Yay. Hey Lau. Here we are. The BOSS Superpower series. I'm so excited.    Lau: Me too. I feel like it's been a long time since I saw you.    Anne: I know, right?    Lau: I just came back from vacation.    Anne: Well, and I, of course I'm working over here like a dog (laughs), and I need a vacation now. But I have to say I encountered something that was difficult for me and my business while you were having fun in the sun there. And I thought we could talk about it today. And it's all about ethics, and ethics in your business, and what you can do to get through a situation that is not easy to deal with, especially when it comes to your moral ethics in terms of will you work with a client. So I had a client. And they asked me for something that did not sit well with me, Lau. And it made me feel icky. (laughs).    Lau: Gotcha. Oh my gosh.    Anne: Yeah. And it was one of those things where the opportunity was great. There was gonna be opportunities for more work, and this was a very well-known brand. And I really struggled, and it was one of those things, and I thought, well, is it worth it, right, to align myself with this brand when I'm kind of feeling icky about what they're asking me to do, because it could mean more work if I maybe choose not to work with this client? Will I be seen as somebody that's not easy to work with or difficult to work with and will they tell other people? And so it just became, ugh, such a difficult decision, Lau. And I know that in our businesses, I like to think that everything's easy, and all the clients are easy and I get to choose what clients I wanna work with.    But every once in a while, a client can also kind of flip on you (laughs). So typically I think I'm a good judge of character, and I can say this is gonna be a great work relationship, and I'm gonna be able to work with this client. But sometimes those clients, maybe the company changes hands or you're working with somebody else from the company, or the rules change or the policy change or whatever it is. Or the script changes. This actually didn't really have to do with the script, Lau, but I also think this applies to any potential job that talent have the opportunity to voice that maybe they don't agree with the copy, with the script.    Lau: Right. I'm telling you, as long as I've been alive on this earth, I can tell you that the longer you're in business, the more often you're going to experience this kind of thing. And, and it is to be expected. And as uncomfortable as it is, and it is really uncomfortable, and I, you know, I'm trying to put on my empathy face right now, I also have that feeling that yeah, it's to be anticipated, it's to be expected. And I always like to think of it as like a magic carpet ride. You've got this beautiful carpet, you created it, you're floating, you're flying, you're moving in the direction you wanna be moving in. You're going fast, you're high.    Anne: I was flying high, Lau.   Lau: Flying high. You feel really secure. You got your seatbelt on. Then all of a sudden the carpet gets pulled out from under you and then you fall. And you feel like you're falling, you feel like your credibility's falling, your hopes are falling. The perception of your audience is falling. You feel like you're losing something. And it's scary 'cause you don't know how it's gonna land. You don't know, am I gonna survive this? Am I gonna get out the other way and get up and run? And you always do. You always do. You're most resilient person I know. Like you're gonna get up and run after it. But to go through it is really like, what would you call it? Like the milestone of moving through life and moving through your business and saying when difficult things happen, that's when I build my character. That's really how I react to that and how I stand my ground, and how I build my character is really, I'd like to say what it's all about at the end of the day. And I think you're amazing in the choices that you're making. And so you're making choices about this, right?    Anne: Yeah. Oh yeah.    Lau: The path, which way you went.    Anne: I have to say I made the tough choice, and I chose not to work with the client. And after that, Lau, I had days, I had days where I was second guessing that decision, thinking what would be the ramifications and how would it affect my business, in all aspects. Because I thought, well, this might become something that other clients will know 'causethis client knew a lot of other potential clients that I've worked with. And so it became a thing where I had to sit back in a quiet space and just ask myself how does my gut feel? And I, I know we've talked about this is I, I like to run my business by my gut, and I usually listen to my gut, 'cause for me it's usually the right thing. But I'll tell you, I was back and forth with this and once I made my decision, then I second guessed myself again for days.    I mean there was no way, once I had made the decision to cut the relationship; I mean, I couldn't really go back. And so then I just sat there and worried and I thought, oh no. And again, you think that being in business all these years, maybe it would be easier. Or I would be able to get through it quicker. But I think maybe sharing my experience with the BOSSes out there, I can at least share my experience and, and talk to people about here, it happened to me. This is how I felt. Like how did I feel? I felt like once I was given the opportunity, and it was presented with a job, I was initially like taken aback and was so surprised. And then I thought, oh, that doesn't seem right. (laughs) That just doesn't seem right. And so I asked a couple of close friends and colleagues of mine what they thought if maybe I was misreading something. ‘Cause I wanted to kind of have another set of eyes on it.    And of course this was with people that I trusted and of course I wouldn't wanna shout this on social media or on the rooftops because again, it was a private connection between me and my client. And so I kind of got other people's first initial reactions, which were similar to mine from a lot of people that I spoke to. I then sat with it for a while, and I couldn't get it outta my brain. It was one of those things that, until I said something, we were gonna be working together. It was just gonna be a wonderful thing and a great relationship that was gonna continue on, and I was just gonna continue to work with this client, and things were gonna be lovely, and my business was gonna be accelerated by this. But I kept thinking and feeling in the back of my brain and in my heart that something just didn't sit well.    And so then I made that tough decision to cut ties with the client, and then there's the ramifications of the back and forth because I cut the ties with the client through an official email. Right? I had to do that. I would've liked to have actually maybe had some, I don't know, some Zoom time or maybe a phone call. But I had to cut the ties via email. And that was tough. I mean, because trying to go back and forth on something that it's a little more than a, than a negotiation on a job, it's tough to do through email, through text or email. And I was hoping that I would have an opportunity to further, I don't know, either talk to the client and maybe -- I didn't burn any bridges. I didn't wanna burn any bridges. And that was important. So I think that when that happens, BOSSes, you have to really consider, I don't wanna burn bridges. That's just kind of who I am. Although you may not be able to do it without burning a bridge. What are your thoughts, Lau, with all of your years and and experience in the businesses that you've built? It's happened to you.    Lau: Oh my goodness. Yes. That's the thing. And you and I talk about this all the time, Anne, you can't get through life completely unscathed, as much as we would like to because we're positive minded people. We wanna think the best of our connections. We wanna give the best, we have the best intentions. You're dealing with human communication. You're dealing with behaviors of human beings that have this whole frame of reference that has nothing to do with you. They're coming to the table with a whole life, a whole mindset, a whole viewpoint that has nothing to do with you.    So in my mind that slides into every single exchange that happens, their ethics, their behavior, their morality, their persona. That kind of goes into the mix. And we have to understand that, that when we're doing the recipe, it's not always gonna taste good. The cake's not always gonna come out the way we think it's gonna come out. And that's okay. So I think as women, we make a couple mistakes. One is we do take the brunt, we take the emotional brunt of having to make important decisions or what we perceive to be important decisions and stand that ground and feel uncomfortable with that, and take on the other's trauma, the other's mistakes, the other’s whatever. We take that on and we emotionalize that. And I think that's a big issue for us as women because we're high pathos. We're very visceral beings. That's what makes us good at our jobs. But it also is a double-edged sword because that's what makes us take on a lot of things that are not our problem. They're just not our problem.    So being able to objectify it just enough, sort of like an audition. So for those of you who are listening in who audition for a living, right, you have to care about it. You have to emotionalize it enough. You have to connect to it so it's authentic. But then when it's done, you have to walk away from it, and you have to disconnect, and you have to not make it the most important thing in your world. And that's the skill that you have, that all successful people have to cultivate is not saying, oh, I don't want things to go wrong. I don't want things to happen where the rug is pulled out from under me. No. But saying --   Anne: I don't wanna disrupt things. I don't wanna disrupt things.    Lau: Yes. It's like, are you a gentle disruptor? Are you an eloquent disruptor? Are you an intelligent disruptor? But the disruption will happen. It's just the nature of dealing with human beings, and it's the nature of business. Business is just difficult (laughs) on so many levels. It's tough. It's not easy. And I think if we could learn to objectify enough and walk away, that would be really important to do. Another thing we do too is we exaggerate situations. I noticed this in myself for many years, 'cause I was an actor. I was a professional actor for many years. And I would say, am I a drama queen? I mean, am I, what is wrong with me? Oh ah, I'm an artist. I see things in a certain way, typically emotionally first. And then it becomes larger and larger and larger and larger until it's like massive.    But to the outside world, they don't see it that way. To them, it's small, it's simple, it's almost non-existent at times. So I found that for me as a technique to save myself and sort of objectify and say, I think I'm blowing this out of proportion. I think I'm exaggerating this into something really huge when I don't think it's viable as a huge thing. I think it's just my perception in the moment of the massiveness of it. The truth is we're not a golden calf. We can be replaced; they can move on. And then sometimes it's almost as if it never happened.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I like that you mentioned the over dramatization and, and that I think in terms of feeling the way that I was feeling, right? Oh my gosh, is this going to bring down my business? What are people going to think of me? What if other people find out what happened, and that kind of thing. And I, and you're right, I think it became like for me, emotionally bigger than it should have because I beat myself up over it for a good few days and spent a lot of energy thinking about what if, what if, what if, or oh my gosh, and being stressed out about it that I feel that I probably wasted a lot of energy on that. And I think at that point, when you're going through something like that, having the support of colleagues and friends that can remind you of things like, hey look, this is okay. Do what you feel is right. We'll support you no matter what -- I think that's so important to help you through the tough times for that.    And also I think being able to talk about it with a trusted colleague is going to be very, very helpful. And just to remember those things. I mean that's something you said to me, look, why is it that you feel bad for something that has nothing to do with you? And you're right, to the outside world, like it's insignificant, right? And a lot of times we build those issues up in our brain to be larger than life, when in fact nobody's really necessarily even thinking about them or concerned about them. But for me, in my business, I was in such a dilemma. And so I think that for me, after I went through the days of second guessing myself, stress, thinking about what if, what if, what if, I now have come out the other side, and I am proud that I stood my ground and did what I believed in, and I feel stronger for the experience. And again, this is not the first time it's happened to me. And I'm sure it's happened to you as well multiple times in your business. It's happened to me before and I've come out the other side fine. And I should remind myself of those things. But I think every situation is different. And in the moment, it may seem like it's, oh my gosh, it's the worst thing in the world that could happen.    Lau: It's the worst thing in the world.    Anne: Yeah.    Lau: And also just for you to note, and I love doing this as a coach but also as a person in the world -- I love passing on what someone says about someone else that they would never know that could be like super amazing and life changing. So I passed on the generality of the situation to a dear female coach and family member of mine of many, many years, just generally speaking. And you know what she said about you, Anne, and you, you don't know her at all. She's not in the industry. She's actually a therapist. Not my therapist. But she's a therapist in the world and we have a lot of crossovers 'cause we're both coaches; she's a life coach. And she said, isn't it nice to know, Lau, that you're not only working with someone of that caliber, but there are people still left in the world that character and morality really means something to them?   Anne: Wow.    Lau: And are willing to stand their ground for it? And I thought, oh, it's so uncomfortable and upsetting to Anne, but it's so amazing. And like, I don't know what the word is, but it's so like revolutionary to the people who witness it around you, who say — it's almost like you can take a breath and say, wow, there are people in our industry that feel something real about injustice when it happens and actually do something about it, but do something in a very professional, kind, diplomatic, and thoughtful way, not a hostile, angry, violent way. Oh, I love that civility. That level of civility and diplomacy I think is to really be rewarded. And again, you don't know it, and you don't feel it in the situation, and you feel quite oppositional to that. But those around you, your circle that circles you, that witnesses that is really inspired and in awe of that. It sort of gives other people courage. It gives other people strength to say, yeah, if something comes at me, and my rug gets pulled out from under me, people like Anne, people like — are doing things to help build themselves up without getting destroyed by it. I can do that too.    Anne: Well, I appreciate you telling me that. Thank you so much. And now I feel even better about my decision and I appreciate you saying that to me. And I think it was very important and worth mentioning again, when you are handling something like this and taking a stand, especially when it's in regards to your business -- and this could just be me. I'm always like trying to be the professional, always trying to not burn my bridges. Because again, you never know where your relationship will go, how the client will react, maybe something wonderful can happen out of it. So I never choose to burn my bridges. And so I did break ties with the client as professionally and as diplomatically as I could and thank them for the opportunity to work with them and appreciated everything that we had worked on together. And yeah, I think that's an important thing to consider when you are faced with ethical decisions.    And again, this doesn't just have to be about scripts, because I know we've spoken about that before. I mean it could be like, well, what if you get a script and you have to voice something that you don't believe in? I'm strong on that one. I'm like, I don't have to voice that. Like to me, that's a no-brainer. But when it came to my business and working with a client that I thought maybe didn't align to the same goals as I did and making that tough decision, I think that the ethics, it's all around. We have to address ethics all around in our business. Not just on what script we voice. And again, BOSSes out there, I entirely encourage people that if you don't feel comfortable voicing a script, you can take that stand and turn that down.    Lau: Or even you are not comfortable working with someone. Like you don't have to justify it. It's okay. You don't have to tell everyone. But you can certainly internalize and say, why am I feeling uncomfortable? I just had this recently with a new partnership with an agent out in LA who was interviewing one of our people and said, you know, I have to be honest with you, I wasn't comfortable with him. This was on Zoom; this wasn't — I wasn't comfortable. I just didn't, I didn't like his personality. He made me feel uncomfortable. I didn't feel like I would be able to do dealings with him, and I didn't offer him a contract. And I said, well good for you. I didn't take any offense to that at all. I said if I were in your position, I probably would do the same. Because you wanna be able to have that free flow of ideas and conversation in that somewhat level of trust that you're on the same page, you're tracking kind of thing.    Anne: Yeah. Yeah. That you align.   Lau: You're tracking. I'm gonna make a prediction for everyone in the audience. Here's my prediction. My prediction is this client, Anne, is gonna come back to you for future things, whatever that is. Whether it's a recording job or whether it's uh, something else. And you're gonna have another decision to make. And that is, do I want to work with them? Because somehow how we feel like, oh, the coffin shut, the nails are in. And that's often not the case because guess what? The time goes by. They realize who their friends are, they realize who they can trust. They realize and they say, you know, that wasn't a comfortable thing that happened, but a year has gone by. Two years have gone by. I miss her. Where is she? Let me got in contact with her again. Don't be surprised if it's not the end of the relationship.    Anne: Yeah. Very interesting. Hmm. Wow. Well, it certainly was something that threw me for a loop this past week, and I'm glad I'm out the other side. But I did wanna share my experiences 'cause I thought maybe if I can help anybody — and it's funny because I'm, I'm very much a person who likes to showcase my business as being together. And every time, Lau, you and I get together on this show, I'm always going, oh my God, Lau. I've sabotaged myself. I'm feeling insecure, but I'm sharing because I'm hoping it will help people that they're not alone. This happens even if you've been in the industry for a long time, and it looks to everybody like -- I mean I like to think that I have it together, but ultimately the experiences that I go through have helped me to build my character, build my business stronger and hopefully continue to do that. I think the last thing I want, because I put so much of myself into it, is for my business to not survive something like a client relationship that I have decided not to pursue any further.    Lau: I also think too, unless you run the kind of business where you're really relying on one or two or three clients to keep you alive -- I think you're so diversified and you working with so many people, I don't think that's actually possible when you have so many irons in the fire. But I think it's that, again, it's that sort of blown out of proportion perception, that six months down the line or a year when we are talking, you'll be like, how did I take that so hard? Or why was that so important to me?    Anne: Why was that so hard for me? Yeah.   Lau: Why did I go through that? I did the right thing. But why did I, like we, we have a Yiddish word called grizsha. Grizsha. It means to sit for a week and just worry and up, grizsha and upset. Make friction for yourself because you're going through the process of it. It's like grief. It's a loss. You're going through a loss.    Anne: Yeah, that's exactly right. That it was a loss. And I always think, well, the reason why I went into business for myself is so that I didn't have to go through the stresses that I went through when I was working for people. Right? When I was working in the corporate world. And I was like, I'm not gonna be beaten by the man. And literally I'm like, this is what I love about working for myself is that I get to choose. Right? I get to choose who I work with. I get to choose the projects. And again, I think that is such a wonderful blessing, and it's such a wonderful thing to be able to build a business for yourself. ‘Cause you do have the options to make all these choices.    And I think that if you do end up going through an ethical dilemma, I think it's good for the soul, even though it wasn't pleasant going through it. And I second guessed myself and stressed out, and -- but I do think that it is one of the reasons that I think being employed or self-employed and having your own business is such an advantage. I mean, we have those choices in front of us to decide upon who we work with. And again, I don't think you get to that point in your business until you're confident and you have -- for me, it always comes back to, and this is a sad thing to say, but it's a reality is, if you have the financial stability in your business to be able to really make those decisions. And I am grateful, and I'm also proud of the fact that I've built my business to the point where I'm okay, I can say no to a client. And I think any BOSS out there that has been able to do that, wow. I mean how wonderful is that? It's just an amazing thing and you should all be so proud that you are able to make those decisions and able to decide whether or not you want to work with a client or not. That's a luxury.    Lau: It's a huge luxury. And you have to have that awareness of not being such a people pleaser, such a yes person that you're doing that at the demise of you, your business, your model, your time, whatever. Like that's an ethical dilemma for a lot of people. I went through it for many years 'cause I'm a natural-born people pleaser.   Anne: Yeah, me too.    Lau: I was brought up that way actually. And I love having that quality still. A lot of people call me Mama Lau, 'causeit has like sort of caring --   Anne: Oh yeah. That's great.   Lau: — essence to it. But at the same token, you have to be very careful because there are things you must say no to. There are things you must decline, you must whatever. And those are the hard moments, whether they're ethically driven or financially driven or whatever, that you just know in your heart, I really shouldn't be doing this. Or I really don't wanna do this or what — and you're still saying yes, that's your own ethical dilemma. That's your own saying, what is my value system? What are my principles? What do I stand for? And sometimes there's nothing wrong on the other side. It's just you shouldn't be doing it for whatever reason. You know what I mean? So I think you're awakening us all to really having a good hard heart to heart talk with ourselves and saying, yeah, what do we believe in? What do we wanna be doing? What do we wanna spend our time with? When is it okay to say no? And just set that up. Just be okay with that. Don't kill yourself because you're saying no for whatever reason.    Anne: Yeah. Good talk. Thank you, Lau.    Lau: Amazing.    Anne: Mama Lau.    Lau: Amazing.    Anne: I love Mama Lau. (both laugh) That's pretty awesome. Oh man, great discussion. Thank you so much as always. Words of wisdom, golden nuggets from Mama Lau (laughs). BOSSes out there, as individuals, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never before thought possible. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And a big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Ever wanted to know what it takes to create a TV pilot? In this special episode, Anne is joined by Scott & Miranda Parkin to discuss Comet Casino. Comet Casino is a story centered around found family. It talks about those relationships & friendships that grow so near and dear that they feel like family. Scott & Miranda voice two of the characters, but were heavily involved in the creation of the show. From planning out the story to animating, Miranda was in charge and excited about this mid-century modern tale. After two year, the pilot episode is ready & shipped out to all the right people. So what’s next for the duo? There may be more planning, creating, and meeting taking in their future…but you have to listen up to hear the whole story.    Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited and pumped to have the Comet Casino team here with us, special guests Scott and Miranda Parkin. You guys, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Yay!   Scott: Thank you so much for having me. You were an early supporter of this. (inaudible) merch on your show, you donated money, and now we're in the pitch phase. So we really owe a great debt of gratitude to the VO BOSS.   Miranda: Yeah, seriously.    Anne: Well, thank you. Thank you. I mean, it's not hard to support and love what you guys are doing. So for those BOSSes out there who may not be familiar with the famous Comet Casino team, I thought we would start with a little bit of an introduction of each of you so that the BOSSes can get to know you a little bit better. So let's start with Scott,‘cause he's older. (laughs) So Scott, I mean actor, amazing improv instructor, voice actor, I mean everything. Tell us how you got started in the industry and where it's going (laughs) and your life.    Miranda: And your social security number.    Anne: Yes.    Scott: No, that's horrible. That's horrible advice.  I'm from Sacramento, California, and I started in radio when I was in college. I interned at KCAP, the home of rock. When I was around 20, 18, 19 in that sort of range, I was able to weasel my way onto the air with a guy named Kevin Anderson. He got fired, but he made a tape of the time we were together, sent it to Tulsa, Oklahoma. They had us come out for an audition. They asked me if I'd ever been to Oklahoma. And at the time I said, uh, the furthest east I've been is the Nevada side of Heavenly Valley, dude. And that is literally how we all spoke in Northern California. You were more like this, like, are you gonna put change on your car before you go to Tahoe?    Went out there to Oklahoma and did that. And then I got fired again. Came back to Sacramento, got a gig in Dallas, was there for 11 years, got married, got — moved to Los Angeles in, I wanna say ‘98. Had a kid in 2000, got divorced in 2003, done voiceover and writing for television and acting, and I always say you gotta hit it from every angle possible, so I'll do most of the stuff that they'll pay creative wise. So Miranda's been raised on TV sets and in voiceover lobbies and all that. And she started in the business when she was about five.    Miranda: Pretty crazy.    Anne: So, yeah. So Miranda, let's talk about that because you did grow up in the business. Yeah. I'm so excited again to actually see you and talk with you. And so tell us how you kind of got started, and was this something that, because you were around it for all the time when you were small, is it something that you loved right away, or did you kind of grow into it?    Miranda: Well, I mean, I feel like I loved it first because I was like, oh, I just really love reading. Like I love reading out loud. Like that very much fun.    Scott: Nerd!   Miranda: Shut up.    Anne: That was me too. That was me too.    Scott: Yeah.    Miranda: I liked reading out loud. So when they were like, “hey, do you wanna read this thing out loud,” a little five year old? And I was like, yeah, of course I wanna read that thing out loud. So I did. And then I was like, oh, oh, they like it when I do that. That's cool. I like that. You know, I was five, so I didn't really know, but it just made me feel happy, you know? Like I've always loved reading out loud. And then I got paid to talk about SeaWorld, and I'm like, I love animals and I love talking about whales, like of course I, I'm gonna do that.    Anne: Was this when you were five or a little bit later on?    Miranda: A little bit later on because I started when I was five, and then it was kind of went until eight or nine I think. I think nine was when I, I got the --    Scott: When the hammer got dropped.    Miranda: Yeah. Yeah. I got the job of, uh, Lucy in a direct to DVD Peanuts movie. And my mom was like, no, you can't do that. So I was like, oh, alright. I really like reading out loud. I really like the Peanuts.    Scott: But her dad was a voiceover actor, and anything that had something to do with me was --   Anne: Ah.   Scott: Yeah.   Anne: Okay. So there's the six degrees here I think because you said Lucy, right? You read for the —    Miranda: Right.   Anne: Okay. So my maiden name is Lucy. Okay?   Scott: Excellent. Is that true?    Anne: Yes, it's very true. It's very, because people called me Miss Lucy when I was a teacher, and then they would sing, Miss Lucy had a steamboat. The steamboat had a bell. Exactly.    Scott: I forgot you were a teacher. My mom was a teacher for 35 years. I have I have so many teachers throughout our family.    Anne: Well, so that's number one. And number two is that when I was young, when I was about six, when I was in kindergarten, I love to read out loud as well. And here's where my claim to fame, my creative claim to fame is that I wrote books. I wrote books about Nibbles the Rabbit. And as a kindergartner, I read them to the first graders. So that's my claim to fame. I mean, I --   Miranda: Kind of a power move.    Anne: I mean, so Miranda, if I could only be half as good of, and I illustrated and wrote, and you know what I mean? Which is, that's incredible.    Miranda: That's, that's amazing.    Anne: You do everything. And so I just feel like the apple doesn't far fall from the tree there, I think; the writer, artist, voice actor, actor.   Scott: I can't draw a stick figure without uh, without help. So.   Miranda: That's true. He can draw a palm tree and a lightning bolt.    Anne: There you go. Very good.    Scott: And I can draw an oak tree too though.    Miranda: And an oak tree. Oak tree. Sorry, forgot about that. One of the three.    Scott: Yeah.   Anne: I got good at drawing a rabbit as a kindergarten. But other than that --    Miranda: Nibbles the rabbit.    Anne: — that's kind of where it stopped. Although I always was in awe of people who could draw. And so I want to actually talk about Comet Casino because that's really why I wanted to bring you here so that we can talk about the whole process. Because BOSSes out there, if you're listening, the whole concept of Comet Casino is BOSS from start to as it evolves. Because you have encompassed all areas of the creative arts, all areas of funding, of marketing, of starting something and seeing it grow and seeing it evolve. So I love the evolution of Comet Casino. So before we do that, let me show the BOSSes a little preview of what we have here. So let's do this first.    Scott: Can we set it up real quick?    Anne: Yeah. Let, we're gonna set it up right now.    Scott: This is not a trailer. There's no voiceover or anything like that. This is the first 90 seconds of the pilot, and the shuttle attendant is the lovely great Delisle Griffin. And we love it. And so you get an idea of where our story takes place, who are the principals, and what's going on in the first 90 seconds. The whole thing, the whole pilot presentation is just over 10 minutes. There you go.    Miranda: Yeah, there we go.    Anne: All right. We're gonna give you guys the first 90 seconds. All right. Here we go.    >> Attention passengers. We will be landing shortly on Luparif Omari, please return to your seats. If you've morphed during the flight, please regenerate and buckle up. Okay? And remember, as long as you look like you're gambling, they gotta keep bringing you drinks. Good luck.    >> Luparif Omari. Everybody knows it as the loop. Number one adult playground in the galaxy and the armpit of the fucking universe. Everyone is thrilled when they get here and broken, disillusioned when they leave. That's just after a weekend. I spent the first 18 years of my life here. On the loop, after high school, you pretty much have three choices: bartending school, dealer school or alcoholic gambler. I wanted something more. So I went to law school on the nearest planet. After graduation I took a really good job as a defense attorney. It's difficult and none of it comes easy, but okay, it's somewhere else, and that's all that matters.    So what am I doing back here? My dad, owner of the formerly luxurious Comet Casino passed away. How? Uh, he just stopped breathing while a guy was choking him to death, which on the loop is considered natural causes. The loop is 100 miles of casinos, clubs, and general debauchery crammed into a thin band of oxygen. Everything else is toxic. My dad used to drop off associates in the desert when it was time for them to die of natural causes.    >> Hurry. Hurry, everyone.    Anne: Haha, awesome. I love it. And can I tell you that honestly, when I first heard it, I love the beginning, right, with the introduction. But Miranda, when you start telling the story, I teach like storytelling to students for years. And you have such a beautiful, wonderful presentation of storytelling in that, like it is so damn impressive.    Miranda: Hey, I used to love reading stories out loud. Now I do it all the time.    Anne: If Scott knows me, I don't say that lightly. I love, love the performance.    Scott: That's not — this whole thing, this has been two years in the making, and we directed all these legends who are friends of ours and have always supported Miranda. And if Miranda wasn't able to hold their own with these legends, it doesn't work. All of what we've done, it just doesn't work. So.   Miranda: That was one thing that I got scared about. Like I know literally like after we like got all these people to do it, and they were like, all right, now it's time to record your part. And I'm like, oh, I have to actually, I have to go up against these — oh my God. Not, not go up against, but like work with, like be in the same cartoon as, and I'm like, oh my God, that's like a dream come true regardless of where this thing goes.    Scott: Yes. And frightening as hell. And same for me. ‘Cause Miranda actually does video games and animation. I don't do so much of either of those. So after asking these people and then having to, you know, what was really cool was that we recorded our parts at SoundBox LA with Tim Friedlander. So first Miranda and Tim directed me, and then we switched, and Tim and I directed Miranda. So that was really, it was really cool. And he's been so supportive and known Miranda for a very long time. So it was, it was just really cool to do our parts at Tim's with Tim directing.    Miranda: Yeah. ‘Cause he's such a good friend and such a great dude. And he supported it all the way through. It just seemed like a natural fit.    Anne: So let's talk about, how did it all start?    Miranda: Ooh, ooh, ooh. I've got this one.    Anne: Okay.    Scott: Keep it tight and bright.    Miranda: So essentially it started as an FBI agent gets teleported into space and works off her debt at a space casino. So that was like our initial idea. And I wanted to do something    Scott: That was all Miranda’s --   Miranda: Yeah. And then I was like, okay, well the FBI thing is kind of silly, stupid. Let's just go with a mother-daughter story about a girl that actually lives in the casino and went to the casino and like lived at the casino, and her mom was the boss and she had to come back. And then we were just like, okay, let's cut the mom. Because I don't know how to tell a mother daughter story. I know how to tell a father-daughter story. So let's make a father-daughter story about a dysfunctional --   Scott: Well Miranda, you have to be honest, Ed Jager, our head writer and 23 year veteran television writer came in and said, I'm killing the mom. There's no story there. It's a father-daughter story. It's all about the daughter. Going away. Wanting to get the hell outta home, and then having to come back and then finding out that, ah, you know what? I hate this place, but I work here. It works. I have a connection here, and I'm really good at all the jobs I'm doing. It's the Joan Didian. You can't go home but you, maybe you can kind of thing.  Does that make sense?    Miranda: See the thing is like at the beginning of it, it morphed and switched. But I always wanted to make it a space casino. Always, always, always.    Anne: But then, let me backtrack here. So you're telling me the beginnings of the story, but what's the beginnings of the idea, Miranda? Was it something that you said, I wanna create? So not many people in this industry, and I know BOSSes out there, this is the whole enchilada, this is the writing, the artistry, the production, the casting. So did you just one day say, I wanna make a show like (laughs)?    Scott: We pitch ideas back and forth and have written a bunch of stuff, but Miranda always said that whenever they go animated shows, they have an episode at a casino. But I forget how you said it, M, I'm sorry.    Miranda: So like in a lot of sci-fi media, there's always like a one-off episode with a casino. Like in Cowboy Bebop, there's a one-off episode with a space casino. In Star Wars, they go to a space casino in one of the newest Star Wars movies. In like Rick and Morty, they go to a Dave and Busters type thing called Blips and Shits. And I'm just like, why don't you stay there? There's so much potential. You have beings from all over the galaxy. You know, you have people that go to Vegas for conventions. You've got people that go to Vegas in sororities. You have gangsters and mobsters and bachelor parties    Anne: I love it.   Scott: Corporate convention. Always bringing different people. And if you put it out in space, 200 years in the future, the hell knows what --   Anne: Right. So many stories. I mean, I think so many stories can evolve from that. So yeah, there's longevity there. Yeah.    Scott: The other thing we really liked was the found family because Miranda's been, was at my house from age 16 on solo and moved out two years ago. So big on found family. At my house growing up there was always an extra person. Somebody that just got divorced or some teenager had been kicked out of their house. So we're big on found family. A found family is such a lovely story. You can take in so many different directions, and in Miranda's situation, it's right here, found family.   Miranda: But also it's relatable to everyone. Whether you have a good relationship with your parents or not, you always have friends. You know, friends are the family that you choose. I know it's cheesy, but everyone can relate to it. Everyone has a friend that you feel like you're a sibling.    Anne: So then you had this idea that you wanted to do this. The two of you were bouncing ideas and then you said, yes, this sounds amazing. Let's get a writer. Like what happened after that? Just get a writer involved.    Scott: Like I said, we've had multiple ideas, and I think they're very solid ideas, but Miranda is a voracious performer and artist. They like to keep going and going and going. So if we didn't get something with legs on it early, it got set aside and fan art and something else, or voiceover or her life just got in. But this was much more substantial. And it has something that Miranda really likes is retro futurism and 50’s --    Miranda: Like mid-century modern atomic age type stuff, Jetsons style.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Scott: They really enjoyed drawing. So it was very inspirational. And then I showed it to my buddy Ed. We had made a little video presentation and it's 1000 degrees different than that, than the thing that we first made. But he goes, this is great. We showed it to Swampy Marsh, the creator of Phineas and Ferb, who's sort of Miranda's mentor and my good friend. And then we all got together with a couple of the writers from Gary Unmarried, that show my buddy Ed wrote about my life that was on CBS, and other writers that I'd worked with on their pilots. And we all got a room and sort of hammered out a thing.    And then the found family thing, or how each of the casino employees used to work at the casino as a crooner or a fighter or something like that. And now the old man me has hired him to work on the, on the thing because they're no longer viable as performers. So we had that, and then Ed just took it off and built this great daughter goes away and comes back to save the found family sort of thing.    Miranda: And it was so well done and well-written. And we pitched on jokes, and I would be like, oh, this character probably wouldn't say that, or this and that. But most of it was Ed really. He just brought this huge heart to it.    Scott: Ed started on Roseanne and worked on Darma and Greg and so many great shows. And I was a joke guy, so you know, we were able to make the jokes crackle, and then you just crank it, crank it down, crank it down until it's tight. And then we hired Swampy Marsh and Bernie Patterson at Surfer Jack to do the staging animatics. So each time they go through, it's single line, really rudimentary, but it gives you a good idea of where everyone's going and what it will look like. I think they did four passes there. They hired Miranda to work on small projects. So Miranda got to work on her own pilot there.    And then I think after we had our thank you party last summer at Tim's, Miranda said, I want it all to be -- I have so many ideas. I want more characters, I want some different backgrounds. This would be funnier if a chop from above. And so Miranda said, I wanna do all of this. So she redid everything. And so every frame you see in the thing is her character's shirt background, a couple backgrounds. We hired her roommate Lauren to do, really wonderful stuff. But almost all of it is Miranda's vision. So there you go. And then laid in all the sound. Tim West at Rebel Alliances donated hours and hours and hours of time. So the sound design is really good. Adam Gutman, Miranda, you can talk about.    Miranda: Yeah. He's like a, he's a Disney composer. He does like all the music for these Star Wars land rides, and Amphibia, and he's worked on Greatest Showman and all these things. And I did a lot of work with him during the lockdown, and he had this like musical project, and I was able to do some animatics for him. And then after that, you know, we kept in contact and then he was like, if you don't let me do the music for Comet Casino, I will be very sad if you don't let me just do it. You know. And I was like --   Scott: Of course, of course.   Miranda: He had all these like great kind of almost hotel lobby tracks from like a Star Wars thing that he worked on. And he's just like, I can tweak this and do this. I'm like, that is so cool. It was crazy.    Anne: So a few things that I wanna point out to the BOSSes out there, because again, I think a lot of people that listen to the VO BOSS podcast they’re thinking very much in just voiceover. And again, the scope of this project is so amazing, and I'm hearing a couple of things that just keep coming back to me. Number one is having a great network, right? And having a wonderful team to help put this together. And so I think that networking is such an important thing to have a successful --   Scott: Without, without it, this wouldn't exist.    Anne: Yeah.    Scott: I called in and asked every favor I had to get us at this point.    Anne: Yeah, absolutely.    Scott: Listen, I don't constantly work for free, but I work with friends and things I like mm-hmm and everyone liked all these people that are in this, Maurice Lamar, Billy West, Tara Strong, Luray, Newman, Mindy Sterling — all of them have known Miranda since about three years old because I was asked to be divorced when Miranda was three. So I had her with me, and they all sort of watched her grow up and watched her. So when I said, hey you guys, this is what we're doing, would you be willing? And they all said the same, some version of yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Tara Strong's like, just tell me where to talk. They didn't owe me anything, but I, we asked favors.    Miranda: And one thing that I was so happy about is they've always been, ‘cause we're, you know, a lot of us are at the same agency. So like from being a kid, like not not a kid, but like, you know, in my 20s, early, early teenage years, they were always like, if you make something, if you make something, you know, put me in it. Please. So, you know, and then we finally followed through with an idea, and now it was like, I can do that. I can ask these people and they'll say yes. And that's just a such a great feeling to have, to have such a great support network of all these incredible talented people. I'm really honored.    Scott: And Miranda designed each of the characters for each of those actors. Aunt Maisie was designed for Tara Strong. Gary Anthony Williams is Hendrix. So that's kind of a cool thing too. But you definitely have to be willing to work with -- I mean I've worked on so many pilots that got shot and didn't get to air. I don't get any money from that. I just get the experience providing and supporting. So when I have something, I call those guys and they're like, yeah, let's get together and write this.    Anne: So then yet another thing that I wanna talk about that I think is so important in the development of this is you're still pursuing this, you're still getting funding for this. And so --   Scott: We've just started this phase.    Anne: Right.   Scott: We, it's taken two years to get up to that.   Anne: Yeah. And I think that there's something to be said for the level of commitment obviously, that you have to have for this. I mean in my brain, there's no way that it can't not be successful for you guys. I mean that's the way I feel. I don't know.    Miranda: I honestly think it's successful already. I am just, I am happy to be involved with these incredible people. I'm happy to have this part of my portfolio, and I'm ready to get this, this art in front of people who work in amazing studios. Like all these studio people are going to be seeing my art. So that was like the goal from early on was to get my art in front of studios, and whether it gets made or not, it's just a step in the right direction regardless.    Anne: I love that.    Scott: The beginning premise was to get experience at storyboarding character design and backgrounds. So when we hired Surfer Jack, the idea was that Miranda would sit on Bernie’s shoulder and watch him staging storyboard. But then Swampy screwed that up by hiring Miranda before they even started on the pilot to be head of small projects there. So the idea was to get all of her stuff in front of as many people as possible. And because of Ed -- his theatrical representation is APA — they saw that 90-second trailer and called us in for a strategy meeting. So now we're actually represented by APA.    Anne: Love it. That’s huge.   Scott: They’re not only showbiz adjacent, but they represent people like 50 Cent, Mark Ruffalo, you know, that kinda people. So now, next week the pilot goes out to every animation studio and every streaming service, full support of the head of animation at APA. And they'll bug them to watch it and then hopefully take a meeting. So we already won because all of that stuff is in front of them. And Miranda -- by the way, she's like, in my early twenties — these are your early 20’s; you’re 28 (?) until next week, you know.   Anne: That's phenomenal. Miranda, I love that you said that it's already a success because it truly is in my eyes, and that's why I feel like it can't be anything but a success already. I've seen it evolve, I've seen it progress, and to me I'm in awe. I think it's amazing. I love the evolution, I love the whole creative process. And I think that it would help BOSSes to maybe wrap their heads around the whole production process of a creative project because I think it will help us to become better actors, become better business people, understanding the networking that you guys are going through and the process to get this produced and and get this out and see if — it's like a big huge audition. Right?    Scott: It is. The other thing is, I told you I don't book animation. So what we did was build a pilot and write ourselves into the pilot. So if I book animation, it'd likely be something that we wrote then Miranda drew. So I think that's a really important thing for anybody getting into it. Don't wait to be asked to the dance. Get out there and start dancing.    Miranda: I also think like the thing about networking that you said like Swampy, a friend of ours, you never know who you are going to meet or who's gonna hire you or who's gonna be your friend and let you work on their project or whatever. ‘Cause like, you know, I hired my roommate to work on some of the backgrounds for Comet. And the networking is so important in this industry, especially with animation, the way that it is right now. ‘Cause animation is very weird and not an incredible industry to get into right now. ‘Cause everything is very up in the air.    Scott: What do you mean, not a great industry? Do you mean it's uncertain?    Miranda: Yeah, it's very uncertain and there's lots of things.    Scott: Voiceover and acting --   Miranda: No, no, but like animation in particular, a lot of animated projects are getting canned. Like they took so much off of HBO Max and Netflix. Like all these animated projects on Netflix.   Scott: That happens in every facet of the entertainment --   Miranda: Right. That's true.   Anne: Ebb and flow.    Scott: It's building your house on mud and hoping for the best.    Miranda: Yeah.    Anne: Yeah.    Miranda: But you know, like you just never know who is gonna hire you. You never know who's gonna be part of your story next. So.   Scott: It's also a good reason to be nice to everybody.    Miranda: Exactly. It costs some money.    Scott: ‘Cause you never know. And that's why I always say, hey people, I know we have, we're represented by an agency, but please if I sent you the pilot and said, hey, send it to creators that you know, it's always great when something comes to the same point from different connections.    Anne: Sure. Absolutely.    Scott: Oh, this is the pilot. Oh this is the guy that Apple, the Apple guy sent me this. So I believe you gotta get as many lines in the water as you can.    Anne: Absolutely. And that networking completely helps that. And I think that it's just something that's so important for us to know as we progress in this industry because this industry's uncertain, voice acting. Oh, oh my gosh. You know?   Scott: Also the other thing is Miranda's not stopping. She's doing Comet art for the pitch deck. Should we get the meeting, I feel confident people are gonna say, hey come in. We like it. We’d like to chat, doing that. But she's also prepping a bunch of stuff to submit for Smiling Friends. She just had a meeting with the storyboard director from Mitchells and the Machines. So you know, you can't just go, well, we've got our pilot. Let's just sit back and let the money roll in.   Miranda: Not over until it's over.    Anne: That's not over.    Miranda: It doesn't start till it starts.    Scott: Ah, I like that one.    Anne: Yeah. Now lemme ask you, Comet Casino, what's next? What's the next step?    Scott: Next week. Well, Miranda's doing art for the pitch deck. Hopefully it goes out to all the stupid buddies, the the titmouses, the --   Miranda: Bento boxes, the tornates, the 20th Century Fox.    Scott: It's gonna go out to every relevant animation company and every streamer, Amazon, Apple, all of those. And then we clear our schedule because we'll be just meeting so many people and having a bidding war on the Comet scene.    Anne: There you go.    Miranda: One would hope. One would hope.    Scott: We still, did you get one of these, Anne?    Anne: I did not get a bag.    Scott: We wanna send you a bag as a gift from the Comet Casino.    Anne: Oh, I love it.    Scott: And we'll put one of the lucky chips in there too.    Anne: Oh, I love that.    Scott: I always keep 'em in my pocket when I audition and I booked three commercials with one ofthese in my pocket.    Anne: Well, thank you. So let me ask you guys, before we go, first of all, how can somebody buy Comic Casino merch? Where do they go?    Miranda: They go to the Comet Casino gift shop, and it's the first thing that comes up on Google. I'll also send you the link so you can put it in the description of whatever podcast.    Anne: The Comet Casino gift shop. And guys, I have a few things. I have a few things from the Comet Casino, but I do not have a bag, so I would love that.    Scott: We'll send you the retro airline bag.    Anne: Thank you.    Scott: Cool thing where you put the cardboard on the bottom, and they put hard glasses in the bottom.    Anne: I love it.    Scott: And then we still have a bunch of shirts. We don't have a lot of stuff. We got hit pretty hard. Oh, we do have some of these handmade pendants that are really, really cool. We only have a -- I think there's only five of those left. They're really, really, really stunning.    Anne: That's very cool.    Scott: Our friend Lori Magna is this artisan in Boston, and she made, she does all the little -- I mean --   Anne: Oh, I love it.    Miranda: Aren't they so cool?   Anne: I love it. So Comet Casino gift shop.    Miranda: Yes, indeed.    Anne: And how can someone follow you, Miranda?    Miranda: Oh, well my Instagram is Parkinart, Parkinart. No spaces, no caps, no nothing. No, no underscores or dots or dits or numbers.    Anne: Perfect.    Scott: You can see me on a Tide commercial    Anne: Ah yes.    Miranda: And his Instagram. His Instagram --   Scott: Hang on, I forgot to say we just got these, the premade --   Miranda: The booklets.   Scott: Big comic books with all the concept art. They're 22 pages, and we just got these. There was a misprint. We got to help with the pitch and they did a misprint --   Anne: Will you be signing?    Scott: We're signing. Miranda will sign. I'll sign it. It doesn't really matter if I sign it, but Miranda's gonna sign it, and then if you get other cast members to sign it, you got something there.    Anne: Very nice.    Scott: That'll be up on here very quickly as well.    Anne: Very nice.    Scott: Anne, thank you so much. So sweet of you to have us on.    Anne: Thank you, guys. It was amazing. So much fun. And I'm looking forward to interviewing you again after it gets picked up and you guys --   Scott: Absolutely. And remember, we're voice first, and we have a very long memory and we remember everybody that was so supportive and helpful. And believe me, we’ll be working hard. We don't know who's gonna buy it or what the situation will be. They may buy it outright, tell us to go away, you know what I mean? So we have no idea what that looks like. But if we have any say in it, we're gonna bring people to audition. Everybody gets up to bat, we're gonna write your names as a character, spread the wealth.    Anne: Love it. And your cat wants to say hello. I love it. You know, I have three cats, so I'm all about that. Well fantastic, guys. Thank you so much again. It was amazing. So much fun. Love, love, love what you're doing.    Miranda: Thank you so much for having us on.    Anne: Absolutely.    Scott: You’ve been so supportive, Anne. You jumped on the bandwagon and gave away merch very early on. This was an expensive proposal, right? Hiring an animation company to do four passes, and then I was sending random money to not take any other work while they worked on this thing. So it's really, really helpful to have such support. The main thing is, it's just really fun to see the cool logo and all the great art on it. It's very nice.    Anne: Absolutely. All right, well BOSSes, here's your chance to use your voice to make an immediate difference in our world and give back to the communities that give to you. Besides giving to Comet Casino, you can go to 100Voiceswhocare.org to find out more and commit. And also big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network communicate like BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye!   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The voice over industry is always changing. Pivoting for success is about preparing for that change and learning how to adapt. Anne & Lau are very experienced with pivoting professionally. How else could they keep their businesses thriving for 15 years? Pivoting is not just about immediately making changes to your process, but exploring your options. It’s about taking a step back, looking at what you are doing and asking yourself “Is this working? Is this the right thing?” There's an incredible amount of pressure to stay ahead of the curve and keep up with the latest trends & tech. If you’re not learning new things, you’re falling behind. Don't sweat it, Bosses. Anne & Lau are here to help you embrace these shifts + take advantage of bigger & better opportunities...   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the BOSS Superpower series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along here with my very special guest co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you today?    Lau: I'm, I'm doing great.    Anne: Awesome. So Lau, last night -- (laughs) -- Late at night, I had the television on, and there was an episode of Friends that came on. It's one of my favorite episodes because I don't know if you watch Friends. Oh, okay.    Lau: Back in the day, are you kidding me? We were all Friends.   Anne: So, do you remember the episode where they're trying to get the mattress up the staircase, and they're having a hard time making the turn? And Ross, Ross kept saying, pivot (laughs). Pivot. Pivot. And it totally made me think of my business, and I thought we could talk about pivoting. So question BOSSes, how good are you at pivoting and making quick changes, doing things in the moment, evolving along and changing direction? Good question. And I think we are at a point in our industry where things are changing, Lau, more than ever before.    I mean, I think things are always changing. We always have to be on the lookout for trends. But I do feel as though we are at a pivotal point, (laughs), no pun intended, a critical point too in the industry where things just may change. And if we wanna survive, Lau, as a business — and I sat back and really thought about this the other day, we have to be able to evolve and change along with that if we want to survive. And I thought, alright, let's ask myself the toughest question. What would happen? ‘'Cause this has been on the forums for good long time now — the threat of synthetic voices, right? Well, what would happen to your business? Right? Ask yourself the question, BOSSes, what would happen if you did not have voiceover anymore? How would you be able to maintain a business or stay in business? How would you pivot?    Lau: That's an excellent question. It's sort of a human question too. We never wanna think about this, but what happens if our career goes down? What happens if our house is gone? What happens if we can't walk anymore? I mean, these are things we don't wanna think about but that do happen in life to people every moment of the day. And it's not unrealistic to say, let me think of three possible scenarios that I could do if my business starts to crash and burn. Or if the pipeline for my business that I so rely upon, those 2, 3, 4 clients are gone? I actually saw one business, Anne, where there was four biggies in the pipeline for a talent, and they all went down. This was at the beginning of a earlier recession, and he had to close his business. He had to close, not because he didn't have the business, because he didn't know how to pivot.    Anne: Well, you bring up such a good point. And you know, the pandemic was a big jolt to everyone's minds in saying, oh gosh, all of a sudden things have changed. Right? And this became like, well, we better make sure our studios are up to snuff and because we're gonna now be working from our home studios. And it became a thing that if you were a talent and you didn't have the proper requirements for your studio, if it didn't sound good, if you didn't have Source Connect or ipDTL or another way to connect to your client, your business might be suffering. And so those that were able to pivot and quickly recognize this and implement that, if they didn't have it implemented already, we're able to pivot. That was, I think, one of the first jolts to, I think a lot of us in the industry, that, oops, something changed and we need to be able to pivot with it in order to be successful or remain successful.    Lau: Now, did you have one, at least one big pivot and during covid that you can recall and say, wow, that was a big shift? I changed, whatever that was? Do you have one in mind that you did during that Covid period right at the beginning?    Anne: That's a good question. Well, first of all, I know that right before lockdown, I was super excited because I was able to complete this studio before that happened. And so when that happened, the great thing was, is that I was prepared. And I know that I already had been active with my ipDTL, so I was thankful for that, right, and Source Connect. And so I technically knew how to use them, I had used them. I was able to then make sure that I had those advertised on my page to make sure I could handle new work coming in, or if people had questions, because it was becoming a requirement now in casting specs.    And so for me, it was literally making a pivot. I also had a lot of people reaching out for coaching, right? So I needed to make sure that I was able to handle the influx, which to me was a wonderful thing, right? I didn't have to necessarily worry so much about not working or losing business because more and more was coming in. So for me, it was an adjustment in terms of my scheduling and how I could fit everything in and do that. But what about you, Lau? Because you had a physical studio. Talk about that.    Lau: Yeah, I did. And I did what every other voiceover talent. I was building my own voiceover studio from home. But the big pivot for me that I didn't even recognize I was doing, besides going online with the business, which was huge — that to me was huge, like, being able to go into the global zone and reach clients that way was terrifying, but incredibly exciting. The other big pivot for me was becoming an agent. So I never, ever dreamed or thought of that or envisioned that as part of my business at all. And then all of a sudden, I was on lockdown with everyone else, and I said, I,  I --   Anne: Yeah, maybe we'll do that.    Lau: And yeah. And my husband said, do you know anything about that? Do you know how to do that? I said, uh, no. I've had agents as a talent, but I've, I've never worked in an agency. I've never worked in an office. I'll figure it out.(laughs)    Anne: I love that. I'll figure it out.    Lau: So it’s that sense of — the way I was trained. Yeah. The way I was trained, my mentors were like, listen, in business, Lau, in business, you have to set up your service. And then you have to figure out how to do it. Because believe it or not, (laughs), right? Miss control factor here, you are not gonna know how to do most things before you sell it. And that to me was outta my mind with that. Like, I had to know exactly how to do everything before I could put it on the market. And I learned that's actually not the way business really runs. Like you're upgrading your product, you're offering new services, and you're kind of piloting it and pulling it to figure out what it is through your client base. And I figured out how to do that. But the big pivot for me was going online.    Anne: That's amazing. So you created another segment of your business, or you grew another segment of your business. And I'm gonna say for me, during the pandemic, it was growing my business for coaching and demo production and producing demos online. Now, I am gonna say, for me, I am so grateful that I came from a background of technology because I was very used to having new things thrown at me and then being able to learn them and adjust and pivot. And I cannot tell you how much that experience helped me through the pandemic and pretty much anything else that as the industry grows here, being able to adjust it.    You know, in the beginning, the fact that I understood technology or I could work with technology helped me when home studios weren't a thing, and then they were a thing. So I understood that it was something I needed to do. Being online, that has always been an inherent part of my experience, and I'm very grateful for that. It's how I brought VO Peeps into light. When I decided to quit my job and then just do full-time VO, I had to really start implementing things quickly so that I could bring in some revenue. And because I had experience in technology, I thought I would say, well, I thought, well, I can create a networking group that's global and that's online. And thus began VO Peeps.    As, you know, things started to evolve. I started to offer classes using streaming technologies and then hybrid classes so that people didn't have to be physically near me to take a class or in person. They could do it online, in Zoom. And so I was able to evolve with that. And so I'm very, very fortunate and I cannot stress enough for those of you out there that maybe are afraid of technology or afraid of your computer or learning new things, I think it's fundamental, number one, to be able to take advantage of the technologies, to help you pivot (laughs) and help you grow. And I think that that's number one, that I feel so lucky that I'm — was able to pivot with the help of technology, and the fact that I knew it — and if I didn't know it, I would learn it. Right Lau, just like you, if you don't know, you're going to have to learn in order to kind of stay afloat and survive.    Lau: I think also along with that, there's this sense of who I thought I'd be or where I thought I'd be by a certain age or a stage of life. And I know a lot of people go through this like, oh, I think I'd be this, or I'd be married by this day, whatever. Believe it or not, I always thought from a young age, I would be like, a talent, full-time, professional talent, because that's what I was trained to do for the first half of my life. And then that was a massive pivot. And very difficult too, because anyone who's a talent who pivots in another direction, whether they become a producer or a director or they own an agency or whatever, there's that loss. There's a little bit of mourning in that. There's that loss of understanding that, sure, I can do a gig or whatever, but my real focus for my business is in this direction.    So that was a massive pivot for me when I opened my studio to really say, I can still do a gig if I wanna do a gig, but it's no longer my focus, it's not my focus point. My focus point is this. And to be able to concentrate and discipline myself to, to pivot in that direction is tough. It's wonderful that we're capable of doing that. But every, like, I'd say, every year, maybe once a year or so, like I just wanna cry my eyes out because I think, oh, what could have happened if I used this in my performance track? You know what I mean?   Anne: First of all, I love that you mentioned that. I wanna say that I've always been of the philosophy that I love performing, right? I love being a voice actor, and nothing beats it. Right? But I give so much credit to my ability and what I've learned over the years to build a business in regard to keeping me safe and able to pivot, right? So again, if I ask the really hard question, okay, synthetic voices are getting good, right? There will be a market for them. There will be people who will pay for them. It will be okay at some point it'll probably evolve because I've gotten used to talking to Alexa. I always use Alexa as my example, but what am I going to do when parts of my business are taken away, right, by the technology? What can I do?    And so asking the really tough question, if there was no voiceover, if the synthetic voice got so good that maybe the market just collapsed, and that could happen, what would I do? And I am thankful, so very thankful that I have the business skills, right? I've built a business and I've maintained that business for 15, longer than 15 years. And so what can I bring with those skills, right, to maybe not perform and do voiceover? What else could I do?    And so I really started to think about, okay, there's lots of kind of things on the side. I have the VO Peeps group. I call it the tendrils of my business, like it's got arms. But really I could do something more with that. Or with the podcast, maybe I could be a podcast host or I could help other people develop their podcast. There's so many things that I am grateful for, again, because I have built my business up. But I think, BOSSes out there, you've got to really, really sit down and think, what will happen if this industry changes in a way that it's not what I intended right now? And am I preparing myself? Am I training myself to be able to evolve and pivot with it?    But I think the whole business skills thing, if you guys are bored, (laughs) BOSSes out there, if you're bored, like, what should I train on next? Right? What should I do? Yes, of course, performance. But don't forget, gosh, about business, marketing -- those things, those skills will be invaluable for you as a business in order to survive whatever pivot you decide or whatever pivot you do.    Lau: Yeah. I couldn't agree more with that. I think you gotta be in the business of being in business. My dad always said, I'm in the business of staying in business, right? So I'm not gonna do something completely unrelated, because it's not within my skillset. Like I'm not gonna go all of a sudden be a nurse. I'm probably not gonna be a firefighter. Could I actually have the skills to apply? Yeah. I really could, 'cause I feel like I've been taking care of people for a lot of years, but I'm not gonna do that. That's out of my realm, but within my realm — you're building hardcore skills, these BOSSes that are listening now. You're really, you may not know it, but you're building skills so that if one area of your business goes down, you don't wanna become obsolete.    It reminds me of the services that were doing, you know, VHS movies, you know what I mean? And you'd go in and you'd rent a movie and take — you and I remember those days, you'd take that movie, you'd rewind it and bring it back. Well, they went out of business, they became obsolete and went out of business when then we went to DVDs, and now we're streaming, and now we're this. So I always wondered, why didn't they go into that area of innovation? Why did they just close down? Why didn't they pivot and shift? Why didn't they go into DVDs? Why didn't they --   Anne: Great example, Netflix.   Lau: I don't know why.   Anne: Right? Netflix, it was videos, right? It was videos that you rented and they mailed them to you. Right? Do you remember that? I feel old now. They mailed them to you for $.99 when you joined, right? And you could just keep getting videos and look at their pivot. Wow. I mean, that's an amazing pivot. Now they're one of the largest online streaming services, and I'm gonna say Microsoft, IBM. Look at these big companies that have been around for a very long time, right, and how they have pivoted and evolved. Look at, I think I was mentioning this to you before, but I had just seen something with Gary Vaynerchuk, who I absolutely love. He just was talking about the tractor. So farmers, when the tractor was invented, they were like, oh, it's gonna take away my job, it's gonna take away my job. And they would scream, and guess what? We evolved, right? So now tractors are being used to help farmers do their job. And so then we can, as humans, do more wonderful things.    So I always think — when people have a thought that, oh my God, this is gonna take my job away. My business is gonna fall out from under me -- I think we need to really think about tractors or that concept that like, okay, how can we use whatever it is that's disrupting our business? And I'm gonna use technology as an example, right, synthetic voices. How can we use that to enhance our business or expand our business? How can we use it to help us do our jobs better? And I'm telling you, BOSSes out there, if you use Positron mm, okay, you cannot be hypocritical, right? Positron uses AI to help you do your job better, right?    And yes, there's a lot of discussion about rights and and licensing and yes, that needs to be addressed. Right? Which is what I've always been talking about. If you're on the ground floor with this stuff, you have a voice to be able to make sure that that will happen. Okay? So I think really, it's going to expand us as human beings. Right? And it's not gonna take over ,because human beings invented it. Right? And I like to believe that not everybody in the world is evil, and that we will ultimately use the technology to help us to build better things and to be greater human beings. Because nothing will take away the fact that we are humans, and we humans like to engage with each other. Yeah, yeah.    Lau: And we also like to innovate. And I think once you sit back and you stop innovating, then you're stopping the whole nature of what business is. I mean, building a business needs to be built from the ground up. Even if someone is handing you a business or selling you a business, you still have to put your stamp on that. And you have to figure out from an integral source about like, how do we do things? Like the best people who run businesses know how to do a lot of the jobs. It doesn't mean they're going to, but they're gonna delegate them. But it, they know how to do a lot of what their business runs on.   Anne: They’re educated. Right? Educate yourself.    Lau: They're educated. So yeah, so the peeps listening now have to think, okay, what are three things right now that are related, directly related to my business that are my skillset that I'm learning and I'm doing that I could literally offer -- I could extend my business if this area goes down, if this area? Like I'm a really great writer. Okay. If you're a great writer, you should be able to write copy, you should be able to write particular scripts in certain genres that you love or that you're really good at. You should be able to sell those potentially.    Anne: But what if AI takes that away from you, Lau, then what? Then where's your pivot? There you go. Mm.    Lau: Well, there it is. You have to continue to -- it's like a tree. I always feel like, I know you feel this way too, Anne, in my business, my life isn't long enough to do everything I wanna do. Like I'm an idea a minute. I, I'm like an advertising agency idea minute kind of person. I'm like, oh my God, yes, I could create a library of this, and then I could do this and then I could offer this. Do I do it all? No, because you can't do it all. You have to make selections and prioritize along the way. But if three things went down, I'd take three other things and build them up. Because I feel like we are expansive. We're expansive of possibilities. There's so much realm we can do.   Anne: Yes, always think of the abundance, right, rather than what's being taken away. People who are stomping their foot and saying no, no to this technology, no to this evolution of what's happening in the industry. I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna stop AI. I'm just not as a single human being. I can have a voice and determine how I use it. Right? And how it will affect me and how it will affect my business. And for me, I am steadfastly committed to not having my business be in any sort of detriment because of it. I will use what I use to enhance my business, and that's it.    But I think we have to always be of the mindset that we need to educate ourselves in order to really think about how are we going to pivot and educate yourself continually think about what it is that you bring to the table that can be another avenue for you or another tendril of your business to start developing now. And it doesn't have to be all voiceover related, although I like to be in parallel. I mean, like you said, you're a good writer. You could write. I mean I organized events. I can organize events. We do a podcast together. How much fun to help other people do podcasts together? There's just a lot of things that I think that can happen if you really just put your mind to it.    Lau: I would love to see people really challenge themselves to take the time — if they're taking a lot of time -- they're fighting the good fight, they're fighting the battles, or they're upset or they're engaging in conversation, they're trying to work out the problems of having these innovations taking over their work, I get that. And to some degree it's necessary to do that, to process through what you're going through. But I'd also like to see people take the time that they're taking to do that to also innovate new ideas and really start to execute and implement those new ideas to see if they can be a viable source of joy and income for them. Because I guarantee you so many people are taking so much time to get angry or gossip or downtalk this or that. Number one, as you said, it's inevitable. We're not gonna stop it. Nor would we wanna stop it --   Anne: So much energy.   Lau: — necessarily, but the — yes. So much energy is going in the wrong direction.    Anne: Fighting (laughs) and trying to stop. And I think honestly -- like, I love that you said the word innovate. And I think that there are too few people that think about themselves as being innovative. Right? And we are, I mean, gosh, we are probably some of the most innovative, creative -- if you're a creative, you're innovative. That's the way I feel. Or you can be innovative if you're creative. Right? And that's where I think we need to stretch ourselves to grow ourselves as BOSSes. Think beyond the booth, think beyond the booth. How can you build your business? How can you grow your business? Doesn't necessarily have to always be within the confines of the booth. And innovate, I love that word. I think that should be like your challenge word for the rest of the year. Innovate. How can I innovate? Yeah.    Lau: How can I innovate? And there's a beautiful little piece of artwork that's in my office that I bought in my travels, and it says create the things you wish existed. And I love that. That's like one of the mottos or affirmations that I have found in my travels that really, every time I look at it, it inspires me to say, okay, I'm not gonna sit and dish(?) day and night about what I don't like and what's going wrong and why did I lose this, and how come I'm not making money at that? I'm gonna say, woo, hold on. Whoa Nellie, let's go to here and say I'm gonna do this. How can I make this work? How can I make this happen?    And that opens up the portal to a whole world inevitably that that door closes, that door opens, it opens up that whole world that if I didn't ask that question, if I didn't go down that path, none of that would've happened. If I stayed in this sort of negative vibe zone of just being really irritated that it didn't go the way I wanted it to go or I feel like something's been taken from me, or I've been violated in some way — I'm gonna empower myself to say, but wait a second, I've got all of these powerhouse sources within me that I can now grow that can take the place of that. That's how entrepreneurs really think in order to survive. Because not everything thrives and not everything lasts forever. And how they do the comeback. People like Cher and Madonna, how do they do the comeback every time?    Anne: Can I just say this? I know Madonna gets a lot of criticism. But look at a woman who knows how to pivot(laughs). She has lasted in the industry, right, for, 40 years. Right?    Lau: Right. And then great actors like Tom Hanks or whatever, how did they, how did they pivot when they physically change? They emotionally changed. How did they shift?    Anne: Meryl Streep, I'm just saying.   Lau: They’re not gonna get the same roles.    Anne: Every new role, pivoting, evolving, still remaining relevant. I mean it's inspirational really.    Lau: Yeah.    Anne: So, yeah. Yeah.    Lau: It's totally inspirational because I could sit there and I could say, I'm really upset though, Anne. I'm very sad and angry that I don't look 25 anymore. I'm gonna try like heck to look 25, and I can do that. But wouldn't it be better to say, but wait a second, I'm 40 or I'm 60, and I'm gonna bring out the intense beauty and wisdom I have now that I didn't absolutely have when I was 25.   Anne: Sarah Jessica Parker. Right? I'm going gray. I'm just --   Lau: That's what it is.    Anne: Right. Like just to continue to evolve and continue to innovate, be relevant. And really, I think BOSSes, it's something to just sit back and think when you're on vacation next time maybe, and you've got some downtime, and really think about how you may pivot as times change. And sometimes you just don't know what's gonna happen. But I like to present myself, well, if this happens, I will do this. Or maybe I'll start pursuing educating myself here, because I see things happening this way. And I think it's hard to be a visionary, but I always try to be. I do know that after working 20 some odd years in technologies, that I cannot stop it.    And I say it's over and over again. You might think I'm a broken record, but I cannot alone stop technology from happening ever. And it just became a thing. And I think once you realize and you kind of accept that, it helps you to pivot, it helps you to to be innovative. It helps you to think about how can I utilize what I've got in front of me, not just technology, but utilize what I have, who I am and what I have in front of me to grow and to become better and to maintain a successful business.   Lau: And be okay with change. Be okay with things not being the way you know them to be. That's tough. I always found that difficult ‘cause I loved things that were familiar to me and things I knew. Just be okay with the shift and change of the pivot. It’s like you're going to something new. It's not going to be replicating what you did before. And if you're okay with that --   Anne: Roll with the bumps.    Lau: — you're a little bit bravery, you're more courageous. Roll with the bumps, 'cause innovation is not always success. Innovation is trying, you know what I mean? It's taking chances. It's taking calculated risks. It does not say that you're going to be successful because you're pivoting. It means you have the opportunity to be successful.    Anne: If you are riding bucking bronco -- I always say this 'cause I rode horses as a young girl, right? And as a young girl, this was the sitting trot. Okay? And any of you horse lovers out there that rode, being able to sit a trot and be able to let go of your hips and roll — because a horse's movements are not always perfectly smooth. It's hard to anticipate sometimes. Or if a horse spooks, you have to literally be able to roll, roll with the changes so that you don't get thrown off that horse. Right? So, I don't know, maybe --   Lau: Is that where we get roll with the punches?   Anne: — the punches aren't as hard. Right? Is if you resist against those punches, right, it's gonna hurt a whole lot more. Wow. Good stuff.    Lau: Right.    Anne: Oh my God.    Lau: Right, right. I love it. It's so true.    Anne: Now we know you can do it. So I'm going to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also, I want you to imagine the world full of passionate, empowered, diverse individuals like we all are. As BOSSes giving collectively and intentionally to create the world that you want to see, a lot of what we just discussed today. You can make a difference. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. You guys, have an amazing week. We love you. We'll see you next week. Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

When you're an voice actor, growing your business is not just about booking another job. It's a whole process of making your business work. That process is full of potential risks, big investments...and even bigger successes. In this episode, Anne & Lau discuss making money, investing money back in your business, and fears surrounding money. In today's world, it's not enough to just be a great voice over talent. You also need to be a savvy businessperson. And that means understanding the basics of finance, including how to invest in your own business & make sure you're doing it intelligently. Money can be a scary topic to think about, and even scarier to talk about. You're not alone if you feel scared. It means that you care!   Transcript    It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the lovely and most wonderful VO BOSS co-host (laugh) Lau Lapides. Hey Lau.   Lau: Hey everyone. Hey Anne.   Anne: How are you this week?   Lau: Oh, fabulous.   Anne: Awesome.   Lau: As always. How are you? How are you?   Anne: I'm good, but you know what? I think it's time that we had a talk about money, and I know we spoke about raising rates before, but I think maybe it's because -- okay, so I admission, I downloaded Rocket Money for my iPhone, and I started to see like, where are my expenses going? What income's coming in? What am I paying on a monthly basis? And I'm just gonna start by saying that when you're trying to either cut your expenses -- and I wanted to start at least on that, if you find that you need to cut your expenses so that you can make a profit, right? Because, I mean, this is why we do VO, right? We are a business, we'd like to make a profit. It's good to find out the areas in which you're spending money. And it surprised me -- it, well, it didn't surprise me a whole lot because I've always said that a podcast is a labor of love. But I'm going to tell you that my discovery was that this podcast, with all the different things that I have going on and paying people to help me transcribe, edit, put out videos, do some social media stuff, cost me on average per year, just about $15,000 and that is not a small amount of money. (laugh) It's something, when you have a business, that's something you've gotta keep your eyes open and really look at and decide, is this worth my investment?   Lau: Yes. Absolutely. And that's, look, is that true of any business, not just our business? You really should be having some sort of a business model at the start, even if it's a skeletal one, having an idea of what's my growth? Where is my growth in the first three years, three to five years of my business? That's really the time, I mean, according to statistics, that most businesses do fail is within the first five years. So it is really important to say, okay, here's my basic model and here are the first year projects. Here are my second year projects. What do I think I'm going to gross? Like, where is my gross coming from? Where is my net? And just like basic financial language so that when you get to that powerhouse podcast, like what you have, you're not outta your mind going, what? How is that possible to invest that kind of money? Right?   Anne: Well, and I think it's something too though, and I spoke about this earlier this week on another webinar, how being an entrepreneur and having a, a voiceover business, it takes courage. It really does. It takes courage to get out there. And I know there's so many people that tend to get into this industry thinking, oh, I can work from home. All I have to do is go in my studio and record and I'll make my money. But nobody really thinks about the cycle of money. Right? Because there's an investment that has to happen. And I think our brains kind of shut that off when we first get started, because all we're thinking about is, oh, I just have to go in my studio and record, and I'll just make that money. But for every business to, I think, function successfully, there is money that you need to invest.   And it takes courage to invest money really takes courage to, especially if, let's say you're doing this full-time and you're just starting, and we're in that time period where maybe you're not comfortable yet or feel like you're making any kind of headway or profits (laugh) in the first few years. So Lau, I mean, you went even further than just a voice talent. I mean, you have a studio (laugh) like... and that is a considerable investment. And so what was it like when you were first investing in this like a physical studio, right? I mean, there's rent, there's (laugh), you know, there's equipment. What was it like for you when you first got involved in that in terms of was it scary?   Lau: Well, I'll be honest, as I try to be all the time, I was shitting bricks. I mean, it was terrifying. (laugh) I'm sorry, your engineer might have to take that one out, but listen, I think our audience can deal with that.   Anne: I think so too.   Lau: Yeah. I'll be honest with you, I was 40, I was not a young kid. I was already, you know, getting to middle-age, and I was offered a space -- this is how it happened for me. I was offered a space through my dad who was a big real estate owner, and he was an amazing entrepreneur unto himself in his own right. And he looked at me one day and he said, I have a space that's opening up, Lau. It's in a prime location. Location is everything, when you're looking at space, whether you're looking to live or own a business, I wanna give it to you, not give it to you, but I wanna offer it to you. And how do you feel about that?   And I remember exactly where I was. I was in a Dunkin Donuts, I know the exactly where it was, how I felt, and I could feel my heart, Anne, drop into my stomach as if you're on the edge of a cliff, like I could feel it like you're gonna jump out of a plane. And all I could say is in the most important times of my life with the biggest decisions, all I could say was yes. That doesn't mean I was like, knew what the hell I was doing. It just meant more of me wanted to do it than not wanna do it. And I knew, I knew in my heart it was now or never, that that was the window of time to do it. So taking on that level of financial investment, taking on prime territory space, all these things that we do need to think about is a leap of faith. A tremendous leap of faith.   Anne: Yes. I was just gonna say that, it's a tremendous leap of faith, and something that I think that -- you know, it's great to have a leap of faith and belief and a passion and a dream to follow it. But I think you also have to have the street smarts to do that in an intelligent way. Right? Because we're not gonna make investments if we don't have some money to back that up, of course. And before we can get to that place to where we might have money to invest, right, there might be places in our career where we can start to save a little money and put that away. And I've said this multiple times, that the most confident I was ever in my business was when I had a savings account, that I had enough money in there that I could make sure that I could pay the mortgage for the next three months, six months -- actually it was six months -- and I would feel okay if the work didn't come in, or if I needed to make an investment. That confidence led me to take the leap of faith and take the risks that was required for me to actually grow beyond where I was.   Because otherwise, I think we just sit here in our studio, and we sit there, and we try to get job after job and we audition, we audition, we audition. But where is the growth? I mean, you could audition your life away, right? But if you're not taking a leap of faith or a risk somewhere and making an investment -- and investment doesn't always have to be money. But I'm gonna say that for most of us, right, the money is like in your face, (laugh), you know what I mean? It's like, that's the kind of risky, scary stuff that it's like, oh no, I've gotta pay what? (laugh) And even if you're talking about a demo, right, or something, you're just getting started or a new microphone, it can be overwhelming, the investment, the money. And I think we're both here to say that, look, you're not alone if you're scared. Right? You're not-- or if you're nervous about that.   Lau: No, no. And you have to be, it's important to me because that level of fear, apprehension, that level of anxiety is also telling yourself that you care. You really care about what happens to you, what happens to the business, what happens to your money, what happens with safety and security. Like you're connected to that ,you care. You're not just saying, oh yeah, it'll be easy and fun. Let me just throw a hundred grand at it and let's see what happens. You're really connected to the outcomes in understanding that sacrifice is happening. You have to be ready to sacrifice to have a business, especially a brick and mortar business.   Anne: Oh gosh, yes.   Lau: Yeah. Like all of our wonderful restaurant friends during Covid really sacrificed and suffered. Well, so did we to some degree. Like we can have a home studio, which is amazing. But if you have any kind of brick and mortar, you have to be ready to sacrifice to keep that shingle up every single month. Every every month it has to be up. You can't just take six months off from it or a year off from paying your rent or your mortgage, or the heat, or I always say, you know, there's toilet paper, there's all sorts of ancillary services that you are providing if you have any kind of a brick and mortar that the public comes into. You have to have insurance. You have to make sure if God forbid, someone gets hurt, you're covered. You have to make sure that, you know, on and on it goes. Taxes are paid, property taxes, on and on it goes. So not to scare anyone, but to sort of keep it real, that even if you're in a home studio, someone is taking care of that home. Someone is paying that rental on that apartment. Someone is, and it's probably you. Right? So it is a level of sacrifice and understanding that I need to continue doing this in order to build this into a viable business, a real business that makes profit.   Anne: Yeah. And I think too, something that's very key is in terms of having the courage, right, to make investments, we're investing in a business that is very much a business about us. Right? It's very much a personal brand. This is about our voice. This is about us being able to perform a service with our voice, which is such a personal part of us. And if we see failure, I think it compounds it. It's not like, oh, I have a product here, a new formula. Right? But when it's our voice, and it's when it's all about us, and we're talking about making an investment in us and giving that money up to invest in us -- if it does not work, right, it affects us personally. And I think that is where a lot of the fear comes in for people coming into this industry.   And I'll tell you what, it doesn't go away. And I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but the bigger you get, right, the more you grow and the more you invest. And so I'm gonna say from the beginning it was just about, well, let me invest in my coaching, let me invest in my demos. Then it became, I've got to invest in, create an S Corp or an LLC or let me invest into a better studio now. And then also I have to invest in other things. Now I've gotten to the point where if I haven't grown every year, I'm looking at my growth. And if I'm not growing, I have to figure out, well what do I need to do to continue that growth? And we can talk about outsourcing, right? I pay people, gosh, for at least 10 years, I've been paying people to help me do things. And the team, I have a team and and that team again is another investment in my business and in my growth.   Lau: Yes. I mean, we can flower this out for hours, this program because we can't even get into the level of detail as you grow. Like we both have a business, roughly both of us are at like the 15 year mark. So can you stay static? Sure. Can you stay in a comfort zone? Absolutely. And I totally am okay with that and respect people who say, I'm capped, I'm at my ceiling, I'm happy with what I'm doing. I'm happy with my services, but I'm not. Like, I'm insatiable in the sense of wanting to provide more value, to educate more, to lift the level of income, to go from, as they say now in the ether, it's very big. Go from six figure to seven figure. How do you do that? Well, you do that through scaling. So everything that you're talking about, Anne, that we built our our businesses on, which is the person, the personality, the personalization, which is what we try to bring to our copy as talent. Right? How do we personalize a real person.   Also, there's a sacrifice in that too. And it's a very hard gray zone. How do I keep the personalization and keep the boutiqueness of my product and scale? Which is automization, which is about, you know, you're in the whole AI world. It's about like, how do I get into a place where things are being funneled and things are being structured in a system? It's no longer high touch. Like I don't have to be a part of every transaction. And then at the end of the day, it's not about me anymore; it's about the process or the product. And that's like to wrap your brain around that, when you start a business that's so personal and so high touch, is just a jump. It's a jump. It's a transition that a lot of us are working towards making. Keeping it personal. Keeping it real for us. Keeping it something we love and care about, but allowing our control to get out of the way so that other systems and controls can come in. And keep providing value at a much larger level.   Anne: Absolutely. And I think in terms of money, (laugh) I say money, and I don't want people to think --   Lau: I like how you said that.   Anne: -- that Anne, money, she's obsessed with money, that Anne. But here's the deal for me, like again, I always talk about wanting to grow my business. And so for me, it becomes a challenge. And I've always been a girl that takes on challenges. And so you have to feel comfortable with money, number one. And you have to feel comfortable investing money to make money. Right? And then to be accepting of that money. And again, that goes back to like, know you're worth, charge an appropriate fee so that you can make that money, so that you can reinvest in parts of your business to continue to grow, and take that opportunity to just embrace the thought of money (laugh) in abundance. Right? You're always talking about abundance, Lau. And again, I'm not gonna get too woo woo here, but I think manifesting that worth, you need to manifest that worth out to your potential clients so that they say, oh yeah, absolutely. My goodness, can I pay you more money to do what you're doing, (laugh)?   Lau: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.   Anne: That's what I want. And really that's how it comes. And I think that as entrepreneurs, you have to not just think of yourself as a voiceover artist. That's why I'm always saying, I'm not just a, a voiceover actor, a voiceover artist. I am an entrepreneur, and I am as much in tune with growing my business as I am with getting the next gig.   Lau: Yeah. No question about it. And you have to figure that out over time. You know, I became someone who became most comfortable -- here was talk about being in a discomfort zone. I was in a discomfort zone opening a business and putting everything on the line. But I figured out about myself, which ultimately became my brand, was I was much happier giving value to someone else and growing their career and seeing them flourish than for myself. And that's a pure irony 'cause I was an actor for many years. I was a voice talent for many years. But that was a level of sacrifice that I was willing to make because I had to really honestly identify what is your niche? What is your niche? What do you offer the best? What do you do the best? You can do 10 million things, but what do you do the best? And I figured out it was, I like leading I like creation. I'm the idea creator. And I like executing those more than I like doing the talent piece for myself. And that took me years to figure that out. That was a revelation. I almost felt guilty about that because I was in such an actor's mindset for so many years.   Anne: Very interesting.   Lau: And I thought, why would you give that up? Why would you stop doing that? I've had clients that say, why aren't you doing it? I'd say, okay. Because I was building a business that was giving this value to other people and that satisfied me. That satisfied me tremendously. And I figured out that that's okay. Like that's enough. And it, not only is it enough, but you've got a lot more to build.   Anne: That's like coaching and teaching for me. Right? I mean, again, it's something that -- and performing as well --but I think that inherent, I like to mentor, to inspire, to help people grow their businesses, to grow their skills. And that to me gives the joy a lot of the joy in my business. And yes, money. (laugh), again money. And I say that unabashedly and unashamedly because I need to pay the bills. I do, I need to pay the bills. But it's not the top game. It's, I've gotta have joy first and then that money will come. I believe that. Because if I'm following my business, if I'm following my gut and my intuition to how I wanna grow that business, I'm always chasing the joy and the passion. And if that happens to be in my business, then yes, I'm going to yield a profit.   Lau: Yeah. And I think it comes down to too is women in our industry and in the world at large, we're always figuring out, you know, what does value mean? What is our value in the world and in this industry? Value is many things. It's monetary, it's actual process related. It's sacrifice and charity. It's, it's a lot of things. But at the bottom line, we can't be afraid of the money, and contracts, and negotiation, and saying -- one of the more famous campaigns of L'Oreal that I always loved was get this, and I'm worth it. You know what I mean? That was a L'Oreal campaign, I thought as a kid, I was like, ooh, that makes me cringe. It's like so arrogant to say that, whatever. But as you get older and you've build your business, you have to say, here's what I provide. This is a value to you. And it's worth it. Right? There's a worth to it.   Anne: Absolutely. And it's also, there's purpose beyond profit. Right? And I think that if some people might take a look at things like with big businesses and today, the big companies out there and say that greed is at the base of all of it. But I'm going to say that for me, it's not greed, but I wanna say that as I prosper, right, again, I want to give back even more. It comes from a place of, well I personally like think that wealth is more than just money. It can be mindset, it can be time, it can be a lot of things. But as my business grows and my financial wealth grows, I am willing to donate. I'm willing to share that, be philanthropic. And so I think a lot of times when people criticize billionaires and millionaires and say it's an uneven system -- but I'll tell you, there's a lot of billionaires that do good as well as make a lot of money.   Lau: Sure. Absolutely. And I can tell you the stats now is that 99% of companies in our nation, all companies in our nation are considered small business. And I started to research what is small business? Small business is defined as 500 or less employees. So I felt so satisfied knowing I was a small business. But I was in the company of most businesses.   Anne: Yes, absolutely.   Lau: Most businesses are small. And so there's layers of this sacrifice that you're looking at to say, okay, well if I need to make money in order to survive, make it a viable business, in our industry would say tag, what's our tag -- one of the best financial advisors who I love so much, Susie Orman, used to say it's people first, then money, then things. And I love that. And I sort of live by that in my own right, because it's, for me, relationships. It's about value, it's about -- but right behind it is money because I can't keep doing that and sustaining that without financial benefit, nor can anyone. And when we go back to the origins of our businesses, Anne, and when we're starting our businesses, and you have --take your pot of gold, you take your savings.   I like you, was a really good saver. I'm very frugal. I'm not a super materialistic person. So I would tend to save the money. I would take that pot of gold, take that savings and say, I'm not spending anything. Even though it's scary, I'm not. I'm investing in something that I know is viable. And that to me is the first step of having a real business and saying, I have the belief system. I have the belief system based on research, homework, relationships, and knowledge of what my skillset is that this can work and this will work. And as they say, failure is not an option. It's not an option. Don't give yourself an out. Like keep yourself accountable. I oftentimes say I am the toughest, toughest BOSS I've ever worked for.   Anne: Oh my God. Me too. I'm a real witch.   Lau: Tough.   Anne: Yeah. (laugh). Yeah. I said, oh my God, that I do that. I'm a real -itch.   Lau: (laugh) that big. Right. What is she making me do today? Right. But that's that accountability, it's the internal accountability that I know creates sustainability. That's what it does.   Anne: And I think -- one thing I always like to bring up is I keep this in mind. Mind your own business, your own business. And that means don't let others influence you on what your business should look like, how much money you should be making, that kind of a thing. Because in reality it is your business. And honestly, nobody needs to know. And as a matter of fact, I'm always really quiet. Number one, I work a lot in the area of the market that has NDAs. And so I'm very low profile on any work that I'm doing or any gigs that I'm getting. And I don't even like to necessarily report.   Some people put money, oh, I made so much money this week and clients. And, and that for me is not the way to really talk about my business because I think in that way, some people think maybe it inspires some people, but I also think there's a lot of people who aren't talking about that, that it makes feel bad. They feel bad about that. And I don't want any of you BOSSes out there to feel bad about your business because it is your business. And that the same goes for, I'm gonna say this, whatever money you're making, I mean, yes, there are concerns I have with certain online casting sites, but I will never judge someone for running their business the way they see fit because it is your business.   Lau: Me too. And that's, of course, we all know that's the biggest, one of the bigger sources of conversation especially in the early to mid-range market of people who are in the market. It's like, should I do this? Should I be on a pay-to-play? Should I do that? And here's what I say, I simply say this as a coach, I'm putting my coaching hat on, saying Listen, you have a business that you are running, and you have to sit down with pen and paper, and you have to say, what am I reaching for this year? What are my goals and how am I going to get them? And you need to leave everyone out of that. The circle you've created are there for you to come back to, to connect to, to befriend, to help. But that's not the time. The time is your inner search. My inner search is, I want to do this. I need to do this. How am I going to do this? When you start listening to too many voices and too many points of view, you get really confused. And at the end of the day, you have to cook your dinner, you have to eat it, and you have to live with what it tasted like.   Anne: And there's nothing wrong with supplemental income while you're building your business. I mean, in any industry, we've all got our talents. And so especially for me coming from the corporate educational world into an entrepreneurship with my own business, that's night and day in terms of (laugh). Oh my gosh. Before I didn't have to worry about who's doing the accounting. I just show up, I show up to my job, but do my job. I get paid every two weeks. Now all of a sudden, that is so not what I'm doing with an entrepreneur business.   Lau: A lot of folks are coming in and they're under this delusion of like, how do I get what you have? How do I come in at the rate that you're at? I say, I said, okay, well you have to do like 30 years and you have to do this, this, and this. Like side hustle was my middle name when I -- before I opened. Before I opened my studio, I literally was what they call in in California, you know this term, a highway flyer. What I would do is I'd get in my car and I'd go to six different colleges. This was after graduate school. Six, count it, guys, six, 'cause I was adjunct. I was not a full-time. And I would teach two to three classes per college per semester. Count it. I was up to 15 classes one semester. Right?   Because I was adopting children. I had to have cash for that. I was starting a business. I had to have cash for that. And you have to have cash flow. It can't be tied up. You have to have flow ready to go. I like to say right now I loved it'cause I'm like a type A personality. So I loved all that stuff. But to the average person, that's crazy. They'd say, wait a second, how did you do all of that? And you were a performer and you were a director, and, and, and? I said, because I loved it and I had passion for it and I was working my way up the ladder.   Anne: Yep. Absolutely.   Lau: So to speak. Do I wanna do that now? No, I don't because I'm at a different place now. But I can't come in saying, oh, how do I walk into this, Lau, and how do I get all the clients I want and be at six figures? And I said, well you gotta pay some dues. You have to pay some dues and it's not bad either. I had fun doing that. I loved it. I had a ball. I was like always testing. How much can I do? Where can I go?   Anne: Yeah. I'm right there with you. And I'm gonna say the challenge to me --   Lau: I miss it. (laugh)   Anne: -- that floors me. I mean that just makes me so excited. The challenge. Right? Rising up to the challenge. But it's not that I didn't curl up in a fetal ball (laugh) every once in a while and cry, just saying, guys. There have been times when it's frustrating and it's hard, and there's nobody there. Sometimes I'm like, why? Why do I do this? I can't even talk to anybody about it. Like I could be running into these issues. And I'm like, I don't know what to do. I've never experienced this before. How do I do this? And then there's no answers. And I'm like, (laugh), why is it so hard? It's so hard. But guys, most days I like to say I rise to the challenge, but I'm also gonna completely admit to you that yeah, sometimes I'll curl up in the fetal position and cry, but it's worth it.   Lau: But you know what? You know how you get out of that position? You know how you get out? 'Cause we all do that. When you email me and you say, Lau, what we just did made a difference.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And then I keep that. I keep every single one of those. I put 'em in my little e folder, I'll print a few out. And just when I'm like sobbing my eyes out thinking none of this is worth it, I look at that and I go, oh my God. But for this person, it literally changed their life. It literally changed the trajectory of how they think. To me, there's no better work than that.   Anne: I agree.   Lau: And, and I get to make money. And I get to make my own hours and my own structure, and yes, it'll drive you crazy 'cause most of us need structure and usually expect it from someone else. But it's so wonderful to have that level of creative and artistic freedom.   Anne: Agreed. Totally agree.   Lau: I'd rather work my butt off for myself. (laugh).   Anne: I can't ever work for somebody again. Pretty much. That's the way it works.   Lau: I can't either.   Anne: Except for voiceover 'cause it's one. And you know, get in, get out real quick. I mean I have some great clients that I keep coming back to, but yeah, absolutely.   Lau: Of course, of course. That doesn't mean you can't job in for an agency or job in for this. But that's not the same as running your own biz. When you run your own shop, you don't mind working really, really, really hard. 'cause you know you're building something that's a legacy for you.   Anne: Absolutely. Woo, what a great conversation. I'll tell you. So BOSSes, money, money, money, (laugh). Don't be afraid of it. Use it wisely. Invest it wisely so that you can grow your business. Lau and I certainly have the faith, we have the faith in all of you out there that this can be done. You can be successful. So don't be afraid of money. And also I'm gonna say that when you, BOSSes, you are BOSSes out there. And if you have a little bit of extra money, maybe you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart. If you know a nonprofit that you would like to do more to help them and to give back, you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to find out more. And a big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can network and connect like BOSSes, like Lau and myself. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.   Lau: See you next week, bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Video game acting is a unique art form that requires strong acting skills & an imaginative approach to storytelling. Anne is joined by special guests Dave Fennoy & Randall Ryan to discuss all things Game VO. Voice actors must bring their characters to life in a way that's authentic & impactful for players. Believe it or not, the average age for video game players is 40 years old, and these people have been playing games for 15+ years. These players are seeking a high level of story sophistication & depth of character when playing games. For a voice actor, Game VO recording is often a solitary and non-linear process due to logistics, but it still requires a deep understanding of the character you're playing, the world they inhabit, and their relationship to other characters. Invent as you go. Know your character, the world, and how your character would react in the moment. As with any genre, it’s best not to overthink things too much before recording, but instead trust yourself as an actor and allow yourself to get creative during the session itself. And if you want to work with the pros, stay tuned for a unique opportunity to relax, recharge, and level up your game VO skills with Dave & Randall…   Transcript    It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am pumped to level up my BOSS knowledge about Game VO, and I am so excited and honored to have the best in the industry, Dave Fennoy and Randall Ryan. Dave is a renowned voice actor and instructor based in LA with a vast portfolio of work in commercials, narration, TV promo, animation, and of course video games. He's best known for his character, Lee Everett in the Walking Dead Game, and has voiced characters for more than 500 games on some of the industry's biggest titles. And IMDB has named him one of the 20 best male game voices of all time.   Randall Ryan began his career as a musician in touring rock bands, and today is an award-winning composer and producer of gaming and commercial music scores. He co-founded Hamster Ball Studios back in 1995, where he's been directing talent and producing game audio for more than 20 years and has since contributed to numerous high profile video game titles. Also, co-host of Let's Talk Voiceover podcast and still performs the occasional live gig and thinks dogs make the best people. And I of course, think cats, but maybe that's for another podcast discussion, Randall, I'm not sure.   Randall: Who's your animal spirit podcast?   Anne: There you go. Guys, thank you so much for joining me. I am so excited to talk to you today,   Dave: Oh, it's our pleasure. Happy to be here.   Randall: Absolutely.   Anne: So what I love, BOSSes, is that I have both sides of the glass here today so that we can get a really comprehensive view of game VO as it exists today. So I'd like to start off with Randall and ask you as a casting director, can you give the BOSSes an idea of the game VO market as it stands today, let's say, compared to 20 years ago when you first started?   Randall: Well, yeah, that's almost an unfair comparison. I think what I would say is 20 years ago, games were just kind of coming into their own as even an art form. And now as I think a lot of people know, it is the gorilla of the industry. I mean, last year games sold more than film and music combined.   Anne: Wow.   Randall: Which is just amazing. And the other thing that I see that's very different from 20 years ago is 20 years ago, it was certainly the wild west when it came to voice acting. It was often like the person of the cubicle next to the developer, and they were just throwing some voices in. And if they hired actors, there was not a lot of, I don't know if I would use the word respect. It just wasn't really truly a real part of -- VO was an afterthought. And I think the difference is, is now is not only has gaming VO reached a really high place as art form, but the thing that I really see and, and it's the reason that I think you don't pay attention to game voice as your own peril if you're a voice actor, is it is changing every other genre.   Commercials are different because of gaming acting, and even for the people that don't know it that are writing copy, they've been growing up with games. They've been playing games, and they, and they also see other commercials that have been going to more gaming acting principles. And so even if they don't know that, that's where that creative is driving from -- bottom line is that is where that creative is driving from. So even if you're not going to be in games, I think it's really important as an actor to understand what it takes to be a VO game actor. It's kind of like, even if you're gonna be on film, you really need to understand theater. You need to understand all the principles of it. It's very much the same kind of thing. You may not wanna be a Broadway actor, but you don't study theater kind of at your own peril. I think it's kind of the same idea.   Anne: Well, probably if I had to count the amount of times you said acting --   Randall: Yeah. Well   Anne: Right, in that response? So acting is so very important. Not just I think to game view, but just to voiceover in general, especially now. And I'd like to ask you, Dave, let's talk a little bit about acting and your thoughts on why it's so important that voice talent today really have that acting prowess. Dave: You know, when we talk in the general world of voiceover, acting is important, but it's more important when you are looking at video games. We become a good actor in voiceover to be able to be ourselves or a character similar to ourselves for commercials and narration, or even TV promos. But we're looking for something wider range, a much wider range of who these characters are and with a different purpose. If you're doing TV promos or commercials, your job is to get people to buy a product, watch a TV show.   As an actor in a video game, your character drives the story forward. Whoever your character is, whatever it is they are doing, they are part of a story, not part of trying to sell you something or get you to do a particular act. And what the audience for video games is now, one, they're averaging about 40 years old, and they've been playing video games for 15 to 20 years. And they want an adult experience, and they don't mean adult like chicka chicka wow wow.   Dave: But they're looking for cinematic performances, which means more subtle, more real. Your performance has to fit into the world that these games are in. It's not about your voice, no matter what your voice sounds like. It's about can you let this character inhabit you and bring this character to life with just words on a page and a microphone? And there are various techniques that really are founded in acting principles that'll help you get there.   Randall: And, Anne, I'm gonna add one thing to what you said too. You are right that your primary job in a commercial is to, I guess you could say, is to sell a product. But really in essence, even as an actor, is that really your job? Your job is still to inhabit that scripts, and, and this is where I think some of the changes are coming from. And so in the same way that there are certain people who are spokespeople that the whole celebrity thing has happened, but a lot of times you're putting the celebrity in because people like them. They aren't really selling --   Dave: Because people like them and believe them.   Randall: And believe them. Absolutely. And so people are putting him in there not to actually sell. You know, did Matthew McConaughey sell Lincoln? He didn't. He drove around and said some talking. But he's playing in essence, even though it's him, he's playing this character. And I think even in commercial, to understand what that character is supposed to be that the writing is, you still have to be that character more now than you ever did before.   Dave: Which brings us back to your point, Randall, that learning to be a good video game actor or good actor will help you across the board in voiceover.   Anne: Yeah. I'm just gonna say, with my experience working with students for not just commercial, but a lot of the long format narration, like corporate narration and explainers and, and medical, I mean, even then there is a role. It may not be as dynamic or as long played out as, let's say, a video game, but there is still that acting that has to come into play. And I'm gonna talk about how important I think it is, especially now with the advancements in technology. But I wanted to ask you about the story. Okay, so the story for a video game is a lot different than, let's say, a story that's laid out in front of you.   So like a story, if you're assuming that you're gonna be in a commercial, you're gonna be selling a product, there's a character backstory you can develop. Like you want it to end up that the person agrees with you and says, yes, this is a great product for me. If it's corporate narration, it's kind of a nicely wrapped up little story about a corporate story about their brand. But with video games, it's ever changing, and it's not necessarily all laid out in front of you. And I was gonna also do the example of an audiobook where you've got the entire book and the story's laid out in front of you. But yet with a video game, do you know the entire story right away? Or is it something that develops?   Dave: Chances are you will never ever see the entire script. The video game industry is very secretive. We have all in the video game industry signed hundreds of NDAs, non-disclosure agreements, because they're very secretive. They don't want anybody to know or share what's going on in their game. So even when you audition, sometimes you have to sign an NDA before you can even do the audition or send it in with your audition. And you're gonna get a few lines of whoever this character is, maybe a little bit about the game itself, but never "this is what the entire storyline is and this is what happens." You will never see that script. If you're an actor in a movie, in a play, in a television show, you'll see the whole script. You'll know your character's arc. Being a character in a video game is much more like being who you are. You have certain tendencies, a world, a belief system. But when you walk out the door every day, you don't know what's gonna happen to you.   Anne: That's a very different skillset, I would think. Because each and every time you are getting that script or that little tiny portion of it, you're either developing the scene, the backstory, and the emotion. And so that's like constant, like I would think acting requirement for that just is through the roof .   Dave: Well, you developed the character in that audition. But when you get there, say you did five, maybe ten lines, now you've got 100, maybe 500 lines. And some of them may be paragraphs or monologues. And it's a matter of being in character and going with what is this character thinking, feeling, doing, being, who are they talking to in this particular moment in time?   Randall: Yep. God, there's so many things that that just brings to mind, but, well, what is Mark Dale's quote, a mutual friend of ours, he's a director in London. Yeah.   Dave: This is the exhaust of the acting engine.   Randall: That's one. And then he is got that little spy thing, which I think when you're talking about how do you deal with a video game character, that to me is like, yes, that's actually it.   Dave: One of the things Mark likes to talk about is the spy who is in another city, another country, another place using a different name, dressing different, pretending to be this other person. And his life or her life depends on how well they roll with the punches, roll with a different situation, somebody else asking them particular questions, and it's constant improvising in character.   Randall: Yes.   Anne: I love that. That's such a different way to look at that. Okay, so when you're talking about how to, I guess, evolve that character is sometimes the story -- well, I imagine you would know this -- developed as you also developed the character and then the story might change?   Dave: Well, you know, it's interesting. Uh, during the Walking Dead game, sometimes I would arrive at the studio, and the script got there 20 minutes before me. So yes, actually sometimes the writing is right there with you. So sometimes they wouldn't have been able to tell you anyway because certain things hadn't been written yet. Especially in something that's ongoing, episodic like that, but whether they know it or not, you as an actor are not going to see the entire script. You are gonna live this character moment by moment. So you are living in the world of, what am I reacting to? What am I thinking? What am I feeling? What am I doing? Who am I talking to? And what's that relationship? Which we do as actors anyway, but now it's moment by moment.   Anne: Now Randall. So then in terms of directing a talent, right? What is that like for you? Because you also probably don't get the script right away either, and so you're directing and so what's that process like?   Randall: Well, I usually get it a little bit sooner than the actors, but you're right. It's not like I've been sitting there with it for months or weeks or anything like that. So everybody has got a different philosophy. I guess I'll tell you mine, but I think most directors I talk to will probably tell you something very similar to this. I think this is true of other genres, but video games, it almost has to be true. You cannot go in with this voice in your head or character in your head. Like, this person is going to be like this. It has to be a collaborative process, because you haven't, as a director, haven't had time to absorb all the stuff. But even if you did, even those occasions where you do, writers write, and there has to be a translation, and that actor is coming in with sometimes, you know, you're looking at Dave says 500, sometimes you're looking at maybe 500 lines for that character. You're looking at thousands of lines of script, and we're not gonna put people together, ensemble. And there are a lot of reasons for that. I, you know, I know that's a sticking point for a lot of people, but there are a lot of reasons that's probably not gonna happen anytime soon.   Long and the short of it is I have to trust the actor. So the actor and I both have to be working together to come up with this character. They come in with an idea, I come in with an idea, the writer comes with an idea. At some level check your ego at the door. We're gonna work this out as we go. And that's a lovely process when it works well because once it starts clicking, everybody's discovering, and that's where you get this magical performance that you couldn't have scripted it like that. But that also really derives more than anything else from actors who are comfortable with this, who aren't thrown by change, who are able to invent as they go.   And I think so much of that invention is that understanding what Dave said, where are you? What happened before you got here? What are you reacting to? How do you feel the other person? These are acting principles, but I think they're also just mindset principles that you have to get into as you're observing humanity and everything else. And some people do that extraordinarily well.   Dave: You know, one of the things I find working with students is generally they don't realize how much time and effort they need to spend in discovering everything about this character and everything about a particular scene that they're gonna do. I like to tell people, well, look, we've got words on a page or screen and a microphone, and we have to stay on mic and we have to read the words. An actor on stage, an actor on set has memorized their script. They are in costume. They have another actor that they're bouncing energy off of. There is blocking, they're gonna move from this place to this place. They know what the action is that they're going to do and they can do it. Once again, we're reading words on a page in front of a microphone.   But we have to bring the same level of acting to those words that are on a page through that microphone. And the only way to do that is to put yourself in the place of that actor, say on set, on scene.what am I wearing? You know, what does it look like around me? Am I sitting, am I standing? Am I walking? This person I'm talking to, what's my relationship with this person? Where are they in relationship to me? Or where are they when there's more of them in relationship to me? What just happened, I mean, in the last couple of seconds, that I'm saying or doing what I'm doing, what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling? It's that type of preparation and using your imagination that brings you to believable performances.   Anne: So Dave, when you're creating your character, before you're going into record -- and that might evolve, right, as you do that -- what sort of steps are you taking to envelop that character in a believable way for the script that you have?   Dave: Well, just the things I was talking about, you wanna take in the whole script. Too many people I think wanna start, oh, what are my lines? Oh, is my line, my line. Bullshit. Bullshit. My line, my line.   Dave: And we wanna start with the big picture. If there is a description of what the game is, take that in. Video games are very much like movies. As a matter of fact, they're like 70-hour movies. And whatever genre you can think of, including romcom, for a movie, there is an analogous one in video game. So where does this game live? What kind of world does it live in? Then who is your character? And as much information as they give you, take that all in. Now I realize sometimes it's three paragraphs of information about your character and then five lines. You can't fit everything about that character into those lines. But you can find how this character would react in this situation. What is their worldview? Create that. One of the things I suggest to people from time to time is before you read the lines, read the character description, and then ad lib the character, talking about himself based on those descriptions. He was born here, his parents died, he was kidnapped, he was made a slave, he met a wizard. Tell your story, but without reading it; just off the cuff, improvise it based on the few things that are said there before you get into the script. And once you're in the script, you gotta pay attention to all the alternate lines besides your own and the stage direction. I'm amazed how often actors will -- they'll get their lines, but the alternate lines and stage directions they ignore. All of those are clues that you've, you've gotta take in.   Anne: Yeah. I say actually to my students that even for like something that may seem dry or boring like a corporate narration, the words are there for a reason. Somebody was paid to write those words, and every word has to have a meaning. And I think that there's so many people that just rush in to their studios, and like you were saying, just line by line, and they don't take in the whole story or try to imagine the story, that moment before. There's a moment before even I think in every piece of voiceover copy, there's a moment before. And I think if you can take the time, right, to develop that story, it will help. Let's talk a little bit about -- because I know you've got something happening, Dave, at Voiceover Atlanta, an efforts class, I think, or an X-session.   Dave: Yeah.   Anne: Let's talk about maybe not necessarily efforts, but body and how important your body is to be able to, I guess, express better acting.   Dave: Your body informs your voice. Once again, it doesn't start here. It starts with all of this. It starts with the look on your face. It starts with your honest reaction, your honest thinking, and those thoughts, those feelings will trigger a physicality that makes what you're saying come out in a certain way. Randall had mentioned something, we are translating the written word into the spoken word. They are not the same thing. I actually go so far as to tell myself, look, I'm not that into the words. They're not the most important thing. If you're crying or screaming, and there's a dialogue that's going on through it, and I can't quite understand what you're saying, for me, that's okay. Because what I really wanna understand is what this character's going through in this particular time. Now, if it's something very vital that has to be said, that leads to something else, yeah, we'll want to hear.   But voiceover 101, you wanna sound like you're smiling. What do you do? Put a smile on your face. You wanna sound like you're a little more important? Stand up just a little bit straighter and suddenly there it is. You wanna seem like you're a little bit more tired or something? Let your body relax, and there it is. How a character with a limp, or with a hunchback, or with a injury to their face, how they're gonna express themselves, or they're of a certain age and, and the voice has gotten tired from smoking and drinking alcohol -- these are what we're trying to find.   A lot of people will say, well, I'm putting on this voice, but why? There's nothing wrong with creating a voice, but why? How does this voice serve the character? What is it about this character that that voice is there? So your physicality, if you're somebody, maybe your head's off a little side from an old injury, or maybe you're that guy that's really tough and you're always got your chest out and ready for action. That's what changes your voice. Not something that you're putting on, but something that you allow to happen based on so many other things: your thought, your feeling, your action, your relationship and who you are, what your natural physicality or the natural physicality of that character is.   Randall: When you're talking about the body and you're talking about the voice -- I'll pull all three of these together, what I think at least is kind of simply -- you are acting in your emotions have nothing to do with your character voice. That voice that you put on is a filter. And where people get confused -- because historically this would happen. That voice that you're doing is somehow your character, and then that becomes caricature. That's not true. That voice is a filter. And when you talk about body parts, all the things that Dave just talked about, you could be the age you're at, and if you've got a hip injury, or you've got a limp, or you've got a lung issue, it's gonna sound a certain way.   So all you're doing after that with that voice is, it's a filter. If it's a guitar, it's, you're just turning the overdrive up a little bit on the distortion. But what you play is still gonna be what you play. It might make you play a little bit differently,'cause you got a little more sustain if we're gonna use the guitar thing. But ultimately you're gonna play what you play. And that's, I think the mental process it has to be. You are acting that emotion, you are acting that injury, you're acting that malady, you're acting that physical trait that you have. And then if it calls for it, change your voice placement, change your register, change your nasality, you know, all of that stuff.   Anne: Now Randall, you mentioned something earlier that I wanted to ask you, about when you're recording the characters, they're not typically done in ensemble format, right?   Randall: Right.   Anne: And typically the talent is recording from their studio or in a studio with you. Right?   Randall: Yeah.   Anne: Why is that? Why is there not -- because I would think if you're bouncing off other characters it might --   Randall: Yes, there would be. And sometimes you get that opportunity, but there are two reasons really. One, you have non-linear stories. In a movie and a TV and something of that nature, you have a beginning and an end. So it actually becomes very easy to say, well, we'll put these actors together -- we'll say a movie more than a tv. 'cause I think for TV set, you know, everybody shows up the same time. But we know we're gonna need you on these days 'cause you get at all your scenes that these people and they're gonna need you on these other days. When you have 50 characters that are all speaking. And when you have interactions with any and all of them, the time to actually do that, the logistic issue to do that is almost impossible. And that's one of your absolute biggest reasons right there. When it really comes down to logistics, if I'm going to have Dave come in and do 500 lines, do 1000 lines, and in those lines he's got soliloquy lines, he's got 20 that are interacting with this one person, you just can't really pull that together in the same way. And the other thing in a movie that's different than, than a video game is there's all this back end -- of course movies are more than just about filming, about having the actors there. But that is so much of a focus, where in the game there's all this other stuff you have to construct. You know, think about a movie. If you actually had to construct the world in which you live, now make it non-linear, now make it so that there're branching storylines, or that if you go this way this happens, it actually becomes logistically almost impossible to do.   Anne: That makes a lot of sense. Now, in terms of, let's say the flow of what you do as a director, once you cast something, is it mostly just when the actors available they record their lines? I mean there's gotta be so many things, I would think that the story's gotta be there, right? The game writers have to have the story written. and then you have to get all of the characters to record their lines. And then -- so tell me a little bit about that process.   Randall: Well, that's a big thing. I'll try to make it kind of short. So one of the things you really have to do is at some point you gotta lock the script down. And trust me, that can sometimes be an issue. But you just do, you have to lock the script down, and you have to get everything that you're going to get. Of course there has to be some when the actor's available, if I, if an actor not available for a week 'cause they're on set doing something else, of course you can't use 'emthen. But really that becomes the puzzle piece that comes on this end of scheduling everybody. Dave, I've got this time on Monday and Tuesday. I don't have anything till Thursday. Do any of those fit with you? Bam. You lock it down, you, you do that.   The other thing that is also different about games that -- I mean as budgets go up, maybe this will change, but at least for now, again, some of it is logistics and some of it is budget -- I cast Dave to do a role. By the way, when Dave shows up, sometimes he knows ahead of time, but a lot of times it's like, hey, there're probably gonna be a couple more, just letting you know. And he shows up and because you've got soldier numbers 1 through 10 and townsperson number 1 through 20, it's like, Dave, can you pick up a townsperson? Can you pick up a soldier? By the way, they can't sound like the character that you're actually in here to do. You know? So that's another thing that happens all the time.   Anne: Yeah. And I always like for talent to understand what happens like outside of their little bubble of just voicing something. And so that's why I think it's wonderful to have the two of you there, 'cause it can kind of see how you really have to work together in order to produce and do something successfully together. So it's good to know like what you have to do as a producer or director. And of course the talent has to really, I think, be able to perform pretty much on demand, is what I'm thinking. That's what it's sounding like to me.   Dave: Exactly pretty much on demand. . And it's interesting from my perspective, whether I'm in my home studio or I go into another studio, there will be a producer there, the writer might be there, the director might be there. And I, I think the director's job is, the director's the person who knows how to communicate with actors. The writer may be able to tell you, well this is what's going on and so forth. But they have a tendency to keep talking too much, and they're more invested than they need to be to get the performance you want, whereas the director is your guide. When you are at home doing your audition, you are your own director. You have to make choices. But when you arrive on your gig or the gig arrives at your house, and you're on camera there, now you have somebody to take some of that weight off. And maybe they've listened to your audition and said, well you know, you made a good acting here, but that was the wrong choice. What actually is happening is this, and our job as actors is to be able to create the thought, feeling, attitude, movement of a character, and if it's something different, it's up to us to just make it different.   Anne: I love that you said that cause there's so many people I know that seem to be afraid of making that decision whether it's right or wrong and committing to the acting, because they don't necessarily know what's happening and so therefore they just play it safe.   Dave: And beyond playing it safe, they don't really know. They haven't made a definite decision. And the person who is listening to that audition come in, it doesn't say anything to them. You're probably going to do better making wrong strong choices than no choices.   Randall: Absolutely. Or safe choices. Absolutely.   Anne: I love that. I love that. I got so excited that you said, 'cause I was just like totally connecting with that. Let's talk a little bit about talent that might wanna get into video game voiceover and maybe the demo, which I think is probably an important part of helping them maybe get their foot in the door. Let's talk about what's important in a game demo.   Dave: It's interesting. We were talking about this with each other just the other day. I always liken video game acting --I always tell my students, look, I want you to think of yourself as a character actor. When we think about character actors, and even movie stars who started as character actors, there's something about them, the way they speak, the rhythm of it, their look that we have a reaction to, an emotional reaction to. And every one of us has some of that. You may not feel like you are ABC to yourself, but people who encounter you, that's what they see. So we wanna find out who you are, and now we wanna display that character, that you, the truth of you in a variety of characters from a variety of times in a variety of places with a variety of points of view. So we might be in space, we might be medieval, we might be futuristic, we might be post-apocalyptic, we may be a doctor, a lawyer, a soldier, a wizard, a swordsman, a thief. We wanna bring all these characters with dissimilar energies, dissimilar worlds together to demonstrate all the things that you can do.   Randall: Yeah. Be authentic first. I mean, I like to listen to a demo. I have a 1 and a 1A. 1 is be authentic. That has to be it. I have to stop listening to you as an actor 'cause there's time for that after the demo's done. When I hear a snippet, whatever your 12 seconds or whatever the time is with that character, ideally, and I know you, you can't always do this, but ideally when that clip stops, you're like, no, wait, what happens? 'Cause you got invested in it, you know? And then the second thing is a certain amount of versatility. Now, I think unfortunately to most people, versatility they think means different voices. And it is true that that is part of it. There's no question that you have to be able to demonst --'cause if there're gonna be three characters in a game, I can't hear the same voice. So yes, you do have to be able to learn to change your register, to change your voice placement, to change accents, to do all this other kind of stuff.   But ultimately it really comes out of your attitude difference and your emotional difference. And being -- if you're hyped, if you are just in this manic place, your voice is just gonna sound different than if you are at the bottom of the well depressed, even being the same person. So find those things, not just the emotions of them, but what does your voice do when it does that? How are you delivering things in a different way when you find that? And that's where you get all this variance and you hear different people out of it. So that is definitely 1A. If you, if you're a one trick pony, if it's a good trick, you might get booked a lot, but you're just gonna up your game and up your bookings the more legitimate tricks you can show. I probably shouldn't use the word trick. The more legitimate shades of yourself that you can show, the more legitimate shades of what you do, the better it's gonna play for you.   Dave: And let me just say this, there are people who can do lots and lots of accents, lots and lots of different voices, and sometimes that can kind of hurt you on your demo. If you've done so many different things that they don't come away with a sense of who you are.   Randall: Right.   Dave: You might not remember the name of so-and-so who did all these voices. None of them were the same. They may have all been really good, but you don't remember who this person is.   Randall: Right.   Dave: So I always say, look, start with who you are and keep coming back to who you are. You may have some in different accents and different voices, but start with you and keep coming back to you.   Randall: Yep. I agree.   Anne: So is there a time period -- I know that I work with so many students that are new, and they always wanna know, well, how long will I have to study? Or how long will I have to do this before I can create a demo? If you had to give your experience, how long would it take for someone to -- I don't even wanna think that it's all about the demo because really it's about the acting. Right? And it's about who you are as a voice actor. How long should a student expect to study acting in video game VO? Is it the same for everybody? Is there a length of time that you think, oh, after five years, this will be great? Or after one year, what do you guys think?   Randall: Absolutely depends on the person. I think mentally, if you're talking to people who are getting into the business or are wanting to get into, even just, I've been doing commercial, I wanna do video games. Even if it's that, so somebody who has been working. I think if you mentally think two years of hard work, that's a good baseline. Now there are gonna be people who have all the tools that they need, and in six months they're just rocking and rolling. There are gonna be people that after two years, they're just now starting to figure it out. And it's gonna take 'em five. How do you know? But I think you need to be mentally prepared. Kinda like if you start a business up, I think this is gonna take me a $100,000 in a year. Double it or triple it and then you're probably safe. I think it's the same thing.   Dave: And in so many ways, I think people getting into voiceover and not just for video games or animation, but for the various genre, each of the genres calls for something a little different. There are some rules of the road for all of them. I just think when you get to video games especially, from the smallest whisper to the loudest shout, from characters who very much might be like the disc jockey you used to be, or to the used car salesman that maybe you remember -- you're gonna see all those kinds of characters. If you come with some characters, with some idea of playing like you were when you were a kid, when you were playing cops or robbers or spaceman and aliens -- whatever it was, you weren't judging yourself. You were having a good time. And you put yourself completely into it.   One of the big things I see with a lot of grown up people who now suddenly wanna do this, or maybe they've wanted to do it for a long time, but there's a timidity. Oh, I'm a little, I'm a little scared. I don't wanna, I don't wanna, I don't want anybody to think this is silly or -- you gotta give yourself to it and that holds people back. Your ability to read can hold you back. Because especially in video games and voiceover in general, we are reading in the moment. We've gotta take the words off the page and connect them to somebody. So I have run into people who've come to me, not often, but a couple people, I've said, look, you don't need me. You've got this. Get your demo done, you can do it with me or somebody else. But you're ready. There's some other people I've worked with for a long time, and I see improvement, but it's slow. But if that's where you really want to go, and you are getting better and getting better, stay on the road.   Randall: Yeah.   Anne: Yeah. It's a journey. It's a journey. So you guys have an exciting event coming up at the end of April I saw for Game VO. Tell us a little bit about that.   Randall: Well, this really came out of an outgrowth of Dave and I; we talk a lot. We've known each other for a long time. And one of the things that we have not seen along the way is what I would call a throughput. There's nothing wrong with this. In fact, there's some wonderful things to do this, but you go to most conferences or retreats or whatever you want to call them, and there's not a real throughput. You get the promo person, you got the commercial person. And there's, there's some real value to that, you know, especially if you're working in multiple genres. But what we don't see anybody doing is, okay, we're gonna strip this down to the basics and take you through -- you know, you don't get to cherry pick. We're gonna take you through this whole thing. Okay. You went to drama school and you're like, and you wanna roll your eyes? I don't know about going back to drama school.   I had a student, I shouldn't even call him a student, an extremely well known voice actor who took one of my recent two-day workshops. And when I saw his name on there, I was like, really? Well, that's interesting. I wonder why he's doing this. And you know, the thing that was really interesting is there was a technique that really truly went back to original acting. And this is a guy who's a drama school, totally trained, accredited, all this other kind of stuff. He's done so much other stuff that he literally had -- now it was easy to getting back in there, but he had forgotten to some degree like, no, you have to start here. He's got all these voices that he can do. He's a wonderful actor. You know, if you had mentioned your name, maybe he'd be like, really? Well that's the point. Somebody like that even didn't have that beginning. So all this throughput we have not seen. And so the idea that we wanna do is take people all the way through what it takes to really truly be a video game voice actor, from let's start with basics of acting all the way up to we're gonna do sessions, and you can't skip the steps along the way. You've gotta do this to this, to this, to this.   Dave: I have to echo the same thing, that I've worked with students who have been on camera, on stage. And for them, the world of voice acting is completely different. And because they're used to memorization, and being in costume, and having another actor that they're working with, they are lost all too often when it's words on a page and a microphone. And sometimes it's just coming from this genre to that genre. If you're doing promos, TV promos, you can have a style. If you're a narrator, you can have a style. If you're doing commercials, you can have a style and work and do very well. With video games, style isn't gonna carry you but so far. You have to be an actor.   Randall: It's a bigger thing. You know, it's, it's actually a bigger thing. You can't have a style.   Dave: Style can be this big, but if you're gonna be an actor --   Randall: No, that's true. It's a range. It's not just a style, it's a range.   Dave: Yeah. And learning how to connect to that, to your range.   Anne: And now, so when is this event and how long is this event?   Dave: Well, it's called Game VO Mexico 2023. It is happening in Akamal, Mexico. That's on the Yucatan Peninsula. And it's the 27th through the 30th of April.   Anne: Okay. Three days.   Randall: Three days.   Dave: Three days.   Anne: All right. Three days of intensive classes, sessions?   Dave: Intensive classes, sessions, and it's gonna be fun. And in one of the most beautiful places in the world. We were doing some location scouting a couple of months ago. I was down there with Randall, and we went to a restaurant, and that night they said, oh, come back and watch the sea turtles make their little baby walk to the sea. It's those kinds of --there's iguanas around and toucans. You'll hear the monkeys in the tree. I mean, it's, it's an amazing place and it's very much outside of your norm. I don't know about you, but have you ever been someplace, you got outside of your house, outside of your city, a different place, and suddenly you could think differently?   Anne: Oh yeah. It'll change your life.   Dave: This is gonna be one of those places, one of those events that you'll be able to shed some things that have been holding you back and embrace some things that are gonna carry you forward.   Anne: I love it. So end of April, where can people find out more information and sign up for this?   Randall: Well, it's the website. It's gamevomexico.com. So just like it sounds.   Dave: Gamevomexico.com.   Anne: All right. Awesome. And for the BOSSes out there, you guys are going to give us a special coupon?   Randall: That is correct.   Anne: Just for the BOSSes. So if you guys want to, you are definitely getting a discount.   Randall: It's a $500 discount. So it's, it's basically 10%. It's a sizable discount.   Anne: That's awesome. Woo. So a $500 discount, you guys can go to that website and enter a coupon code, VO BOSS, to get that discount. That's amazing. So gamevomexico.com. Coupon code VO BOSS to get that discount. And how can BOSSes get in touch with either one of you? Let's say Dave, if they wanna get training?   Dave: Oh, I'm so easy to find, they can email me at davefennoy@mac.com. They can go to my website, davefennoy.com and get in touch with me, and they can check me out every Wednesday at 6:00 PM Pacific for Ask Dave Fennoy anything. I promise I will talk about this.   Randall: This is true.   Anne: Yay. And Randall, what about you? How can people get in touch with you?   Randall: The two easiest places, and I say easy because I've got the long email addresses. My company, what I do the direction through, is Hamster Ball Studios. So it's Randall, randall@hamsterballstudios.com. But on the other side, the stuff that I do as far as teaching and coaching and consulting, I probably shouldn't say coaching 'cause I don't, you know, Dave's the one on one guy. I'm more big macro, big picture, hey, wow, dude. But it's randall@thevoicedirector.world.   Anne: Awesome. Thank you, guys, so very much. This was so informative, so wonderful, and we so appreciate that discount. BOSSes, check that out. Gamevomexico.com. Use that code of VO BOSS, get yourself a discount. BOSSes, I want to ask you a question. Do you have a local nonprofit that is close to your heart? Did you ever wish that you could do more to help them? Well, you certainly can. And visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. Big shout-out to our sponsor, ipDTL. You too can connect and network like BOSSes like us three today. Thank you, guys ,so much again, find out more at ipdtl.com. Everyone, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.   Randall: Take care, Anne.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

Your vocal brand is the key to getting noticed in this world of noise. It’s much more than just the sound of your voice. It's who you are, what you believe in and what matters to you. Anne & Lau discuss what goes into a vocal brand & what you can do to develop yours. Vocal branding is all about uncovering your uniqueness in order to let it shine through in every project you take on. Take time to get to know yourself. What matters to you? Why are you a voice actor? A voice is like a fingerprint: no two are exactly alike. Once you've figured out what makes your vocal brand stand out, it's time to learn how to harness it. The key here is authenticity. And it's not just what you say—it's how you say it. Figuring out how to combine all these elements into one cohesive brand can seem overwhelming, but don’t worry! Anne & Lau are here to show you how it’s done.    Transcript    It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. Welcome to the VO BOSS superpower series with the one and only Lau Lapides. Yay.   Lau: Yay. Hey Anne.   Anne: Hey, Lau.   Lau: Love being back as always. Love it.   Anne: Superpowers, superpowers. I love that we named our series Superpowers.   Lau: Because we have so many of them.   Anne: Yes.   Lau: Like we can't even uncover, identify all of them.   Anne: Business superpowers. And I think that our superpowers, it's in all aspects of our business, right? So including our superpowers to be able to stand out from the crowd. And to be unique. All businesses have competition. And I know that people talk about VO -- VO is so cool because there's competition like technically speaking, but not really, because every single one of us has such a unique product. And I think it's important that we know how to bring out that unique product and not just know how to bring that out. Also, to be able to market that. And that goes right into our brand. And so a lot of what I do with students is I will tell them that I am going to not only brand them in terms of what genre should I be in, but vocally brand them, right? And that really is something that's not just a visual brand on a website, but something that it is absolutely related to their product. Right? A vocal branding.   Lau: Absolutely.   Anne: So what does vocal branding mean to you, Lau?   Lau: Oh gosh. It's such a big umbrella. It really is. I mean, the first thing that comes to my mind, Anne, is just having the knowledge of knowing as a coach, that no one in the world has the voice you have. Everyone has a unique sound, distinctively unique sound. Okay? They may have similar qualities, but they're distinctively unique. So number one, uncovering that uniqueness in your voice through specific qualities that you could maybe even poll, like pull your group, poll your team, poll your family and say, give me qualities that describe my voice. Because when I'm gonna look at specs of a breakdown for an audition, the client's gonna break it down for you. they're gonna give you vocal qualities. So that's one of the big ones I feel that really distinguishes your vocal branding from someone else's and says, oh, I know that. That's Deb. That's Susan.   Anne: Oh, I know that voice.   Lau: Yeah, I know that voice.   Anne: And you know what's so interesting to me is I find that there's a lot of people who come to me who will try to perform and sound like they think everybody wants them to sound like, and not enough about sounding like themselves. Because I truly believe, and I say this all the time, I truly believe that we are human. We wanna connect. We want to understand who you are. And that comes through, that shines through in your voice, that very unique voice. So unless you're doing a soundalike for someone, or even a character where you're trying to sound a particular way, I think that your vocal brand needs to be brought right up there, front and center, because I think that's what truly makes you unique. And it brings the acting out.   So it's not about the sound, right? It's about how do I bring the acting out? And that becomes a vocal brand for you because the personality is intermixed. I think personality has a lot to do with creating a unique vocal sound. Right? Your personality, your, your heart, your essence. I don't know, Lau, you always have great words for this. What would you say your ethos, I dunno, the ethos of your vocal branding?   Lau: The ethos of your vocal branding.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: It's like the height. Like what is the apex of what someone is thinking about when they think about you? It's like they think about you with this word, with this adjective, with this action verb. Your name comes up. That's like, to me, that's the zenith of it all, is like, when they think of this, Anne Ganguzza comes up. When they think of that, this one comes up. And that to me is amazing. And in no way should that feel limiting to people. Like, oh, does that mean that's all I can do? Or that's all they think of me as. Well, they think of you as, as a product, as an incredible product that has this vocal branding. And that's the first and foremost that you want them to think about. You don't want them to be confused. You never want your audience to be confused. You always want them to think of you for doing the best thing. And with your vocal quality as a vocal talent, they wanna know you as something, whatever that something is.   Anne: And then whatever that something is, learn how to define that also in words because that words can translate to words on a page or words in an email that you are submitting with a demo to an agent, something that sets you apart. And it can also be different unique aspects of your voice. Like let's say an accent, right? A tone, if you have that really beautiful bass, baritone or that bright mom sound or whatever that might be. Bilingual, right? Can you sing? Like, those are all vocal qualities that can really help distinguish you from the competition. And so know what those vocal qualities are and be ready to be able to explain them to a potential client. Also showcase them. I think it's so important that these vocal brandings are basically shown or in a demo, right? So that people can hear that vocal quality. And if you have a good producer, they're going to know that and they're gonna know how to bring those vocal qualities out.   Lau: And you know, it's having a visual now of like a performer, a theater actor, a professional speaker who's in front of a crowd live, they're in front of a crowd. What's the first and foremost thing we see visually is their visual branding. So that might be a costume or wardrobe or particular visuals that we're getting on camera or on a stage. Right? Well, that's a big part of the kinds of roles they play, but that's not everything. We have to know what's underneath it. We have to know what's the internal process that they're using to bring out their personality, their persona, their humanity, the thing that we connect to. But that covering, so to speak, that like coming in and saying, I can sound like this. I can put this on, is great to have, it's just not the whole job. It's not the whole thing. You have to be able to do the internal work to really have the authentic connections to the process and then put the wardrobe on it, and then put the schmaltz as we say on it, the frosting on it. Right? But you have to have the cake first. You can't just have the frosting, even though we'd like to, you gotta build a cake first.   Anne: I'm always astounded when I work with different voices. Now, there are some voices who tonally, right, will have varying degrees of range tonally. But sometimes I think when students are just beginning, they think that that's what range is all about. And I beg to differ because range is not just a tone or I have a high pitch, I have a low pitch. I think really range for an artist an artist really comprises the tone mixed with the personality, mixed with the performance, mixed with the acting.   And so whenever people say, I want range in my demo, right, I will actually focus more on the acting first, rather than, oh, can you pitch your voice up? Can you pitch your voice down? It's so hard for people to do that because then they get so consumed with, I'm going to sound very low, or maybe I'm just gonna sound very high and I'll just do this for the rest of the copy. And so Lau, I know you've had lots of experience working with students do that.   Lau: Oh, oh my goodness, ton. And it's that what I call the over management, the maneuvering, every M word you can think of, the manipulation of sound, which of course, technically if you're a singer, if you're a rapper, if you're a speaker, if you're a vocalist of any kind, we do have to learn mechanics. We have to have a vocabulary that we can rely upon that helps with repeatability so that we can repeat deliveries for sure. But that still does not do that internalized work of understanding the language, the syntax, the cadence, the rhythm, all of that, which I believe is --   Anne: The story.   Lau: Yes. The story.   Anne: The story.   Lau: And whether you are religious or not, religious is irrelevant. There's a spirituality, there's something that we can't quite put our finger on that is larger than us. It's bigger than us that we can connect to, which creates a universal internal connection to your audience that they can't put their finger on either. It's just, it's real, it's authentic. Our friend Jim from Lotas talks about that all the time, authenticity. What is authenticity? What is that honest connectedness that we have? I'd like to think it's partly psychological, but it's also partly from the heart and the soul and the gut.   Anne: Oh yeah. Absolutely.   Lau: Right?   Anne: And that's where people, if they're nervous about synthetic voices, this is where we've got them .   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: If you can really stand true to your authenticity and bring that out in your acting and in your voice, then that is what is going to surpass any synthetic voice out there. And know that your connection and your vocal brand has very much a place in voiceover now and for the future, absolutely. And I say this after, gosh, close to 40 episodes, talking to people in synthetic voices, knowing that there is a place for that. But there's very much a place for our unique vocal brand and our unique, authentic brand, authentic voice.   Lau: Absolutely.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: And it's hard, if not impossible, to decipher exactly what it is. It's like when we see a brilliant performance, we hear a brilliant dissertation, we hear something rhetorical that moves us -- it's hard to completely put into words why we are moved to a call to action. Why we are changed, why we are cathartically shifted in a way. It's that beautiful recipe and combination of the visuals, the vocals, the internals, the connectedness to the audience that create that concoction that is so unique, that becomes persona. I mean, that's persona personified , as they say. It's, it's, that's your brand. Like your brand is how do I move you? How do I shift you?   Anne: Yeah. And I think it's one of the hardest things for people first entering into the industry to really accept and recognize. I know, I can't tell you the amount of people who don't really like the sound of their voice. They're true voice--   Lau: But yet they wanna make a living at it .   Anne: And they wanna make a living at it. And yet they're in voiceover and they wanna pursue voiceover because they think what everybody wants to buy is this performed sound that they have heard. I think we're such a product of our experience in listening for years. Right? When voiceover first came onto the scene, it was very much an announcer style. It was very much a, a unique style. And so hearing that, depending on your age, really, this does depend on your age. Kim Herdon actually in one of my workshops mentioned it too. And I thought, yeah, when you are being directed, a lot of times it is a factor how old the person is that is directing you. Because what they hear in their ears as a conversational or authentic read might differ from let's say, somebody that is a millennial that might be directing you.   And so I think no matter who's directing you, if you can bring forth the authenticity and your own unique style, I think that that is the place to absolutely start. And if you can bring that out, I feel like that's, you're at the height of your acting. It's kind of like, how many times have we watched a B movie? And it's so obvious, right, that the actors are maybe not as sincere or maybe they're not connecting with the audience. And so for those of you that are trying to figure out what your sound is, stop because it's not a sound. It's not a sound.   Lau: No, no, it's not. It's the land, what I call the land like how it lands on someone. How is it received? How is it thought of that's the most important? And the second is like great acting like Meisner exercises, like the second I'm thinking about myself -- which is natural. A lot of us will lose focus at times, think about ourself. But that's a really good gauge for us as business owners, as BOSSes, as delivery folks doing vocal delivery. The second I'm thinking about myself is the second I've lost contact with the other, the other.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: Whoever that is. It just be an admin. It could be an executive assistant, it could be whatever. But if I lose that level of focus, not only did I lose the information of what they're giving to me, but I also lost the authentic response of how what I'm saying and doing is landing on them.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely.   Lau: And then I don't have authentic queuing anymore. I lost my queuing ability. Anne: Yeah. And I think even when we're talking about niches -- again, I always talk about people starting out here and you're trying to figure out where you belong in the industry. Like, where do I fit? I think no matter what niche you're pursuing, commercial, corporate, explainer, promo, there is absolutely in every niche, there is a unique you in that. Even if, let's say promos, right? And they sound announcery. right? And oh, great, I get to be an announcer. Sure. But you've still got a whole lot of personality that's put into that announcer, and you're bringing a whole lot of you to that. Like, I'm just, makes me think of Joe Cipriano, like I could pick out his voice in a second because he brings his personality to it. It really is something that you have to be comfortable with. And I think that's a journey for a lot of students to become self-accepting and to allow -- and vulnerability, right -- that to come out in a performance.   Lau: Absolutely. And I think you have to be okay, okay, sometimes more than okay with whatever you're saying and doing, when it does land, and it's being accepted and it's being rewarded, being okay with that being enough. In other words, if I get into that mindset, yeah. But I, they haven't seen me do this and I don't love that as much as I love this da da -- take that out of the situation and say, look, they're seeing one potential within me of value. And they're loving that and they're valuing that. Let that be okay. Let that be enough. Go other places to show other sides of your voice and other sides of what you can do. But if that's okay, if that's what a big part of your branding is, because sometimes it's enough; people don't wanna know you as everything.   They don't want -- I'm sure we've all had that experience where we see a movie star that we know and love, and we are tracking them, and all of a sudden they're doing a role that they love. That's challenging to them. but we don't wanna see 'em in that role. It's like, it's almost uncomfortable to see them in that role because we don't know them as that. It doesn't seem authentic to us. It seems pushed or it seems weird to us. Does that mean they're not capable of doing the role? ? No, of course not. It just means we've compartmentalized in our brain their branding to us.   Anne: Sure, sure.   Lau: And that means something to us. I think that branding, for some weird reason can have a negative connotation like it's simplistic or superficial when it's not. It has a real lifestyle meaning to people of how they place you Sure. And compartmentalize you within their life, in their lifestyle.   Anne: I wanted to kind of tap into what you're talking about in terms of is there just one brand? Do you just have one brand and maybe not, maybe you can have mult -- I mean, I have multiple brands actually. And so each one of those brands though has a piece of me, has a piece of authentic me in that. And again, I think that that's one of the most important things that we want to emphasize here. And that vocal brand should be something that people can remember you by and then easily come back.   And that's the whole thing, right? Because we're talking about the physical properties of your voice and the physicalities of how we sound and what we can offer as a unique value proposition to our potential clients. Now, how are we going to market that? In my corporate narration world, I have a particular demo that really has my sound, my unique value pro -- I call it my unique value proposition for corporate. And I may sound different when I am doing e-learning, and in reality I am because I'm a different person, right? I am teaching when I'm an e-learning versus corporate, I'm selling, or even commercial, I'm a little bit selling. I'm trying to convince people. So because the context is different, you get a different part of me. And that part of me is still very much me, but it is also a different brand. So I think that for each of your vocal brands, you need to have demonstrations, demos that really showcase yourself in those particular niche  markets.   Lau: Right. You have to have that. That's a necessity. And from my experience, Anne, in my business, people come in, potential clients come in, prospects for a particular specific branding. Once they work with you in that, they start trusting you that yeah, you do that, you do it well. They're getting their value, they're getting what they need. They will open up to cross branding, which I call cross pollination, which means --   Anne: I love that, cross branding.   Lau: I offer, you offer three, four, five, six different services, whatever.   Anne: Hey, could you do this?   Lau: Yes. But they're not unrelated. Like, I'm not gonna clean your curtains, and I'm not gonna babysit your kids. Right? So they're not unrelated, they're all within this sphere. But they're much more open, and rightly so as I would be too, moving into those services once they are educated to understand what they need and what they want, versus coming in off the street for those services because they already came in for a particular brand.   Anne: Sure. And once they do that, I think it's important that you remain consistent in that brand.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: I think branding is just all about consistency, right? I mean, we've spoken about branding before. I mean, obviously look, I've got my headphones, I've got my glasses, I've got the whole red thing for VO BOSS. Visually there's a brand, but also there is that vocal consistency that comes to the show that you and I, we're giving of ourselves. We have our authentic selves. And that is a very important part of the VO BOSS brand. People don't listen to the podcast to look at my headphones. It's about my delivery, our conversation, our heart, our authenticity between the two of us. And that is, again, something that works in conjunction with marketing, maybe a visual. Right? And that has to be consistent for people, to make it memorable for people.   Lau: Yes. I would say it has to be consistent, but not necessarily constant.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Like we oftentimes think, oh, I have to be online all the time. I have to be posting on social all the time. I have to -- well, to some degree, yes. But do you need to be constantly doing that? Probably not. But you do have to be consistent in what you're doing so that it's gonna cause the attention that you want. Anne: I'm glad that you said that, because there's absolutely a thing of being too much into, right?   Lau: Yeah.   Anne: I actually, myself, even when we're talking about marketing and advertising, and I offer workshops, obviously the VO BOSS podcast -- how much am I going to be marketing that brand? And so you don't want it to be so much --   Lau: You're overdoing it.   Anne: -- that it becomes an annoyance.   Lau: Right.   Anne: But what's so interesting is -- I listen to Gary Vaynerchuk. I don't know if you do, but Gary is everywhere on social media. And his philosophy is that not everybody's on social media all the time. So therefore, the fact that he pushes it out so consistently and so constantly and everywhere means that at any given moment, somebody's going to be able to know his brand and understand who he is. I think you just need to be consistent in that, but not pushing on any one particular. Right? I think that can be something that's tiresome. It's like performance. Right? Anything that repeats really becomes like white noise and people will not pay attention to it anymore.   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: So whatever it is that you are giving vocally in your brand or marketing in your brand, give it authentically, and make sure it's not the same thing every single time. Because then it will become an annoyance.   Lau: Yes. And I would say too, like check your ego at the door. Check it at the door. Because none of us are so big and brash and bold that we can't be learning every moment how to make our branding better, make our value better. Here's a quick example. I do my news blast that I send out, and I'm listening to my people. Am I doing it too much? Am I doing it not enough? Da da da da. I just had someone email me, someone who I've known for a while, and he said, listen, Lau, if you don't mind my saying, he emailed me -- if you don't mind saying there's too much animation in this, things are moving, I'm nauseous. I can't read what you wrote.   Anne: I'm nauseous from your email.   Lau: Right? Like, welcome to the inside of my head. I'm thinking, you know what I'm saying? That's like the inside of my head. And I had to stop and I had to say, right, right. I didn't catch it. I didn't think about it. Da da. By Monday I'm gonna fix it. So that doesn't mean that you're always gonna agree with everything that everyone says. You're not. But if you see it's sound advice, no pun intended, sound advice, you see, it makes sense. And you see it's making someone's world harder to get to know you and get the value --   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Take out the firewalls.   Anne: Take out the homework. I always say, don't give --   Lau: Get rid of it.   Anne: -- people homework. Yeah.   Lau: Yeah. Don't be egotistical and say, well why? How could he say that to me? He doesn't like my pet -- I don't care about that. I care about him getting value from what I'm sending out.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: And if he cared enough to say that to me, I'm gonna care enough to take it under consideration.   Anne: Sure. Absolutely.   Lau: And in this case, case taking action on it.   Anne: Absolutely. I think that that's so important. And I also think it's important to not just be consistent, but also keep the market trends in your back pocket. Research them, understand what they are, and update accordingly. Really vocal trends change over the years, in a grand scheme sort of way. It's gone from announcery to authentic and conversational, mostly. And a lot of that, by the way, is driven by advertising. Right? What sells, right? Again, we don't like being told we're smart consumers. We don't like being told what to do. We like to be able to make our own decisions, and we often ask our peers.   And so that I think is the biggest reason why advertising and the vocal trends changed to a more natural talking like your friend, like, hey, I'd use this product because we don't wanna be told by some loudmouth announcer that we need to buy this product. I mean, we're offended by that. And again, it becomes how can you and this vocal brand service your potential client or your client? It's not about what you sound like. It's not about distributing the vocal noise out there. It's about distributing something that can connect with a listener and move them, inspire them, motivate them.   Lau: Inspire them.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Yes. And I would even add in technical, technique-wise over time, add a little hook for yourself in there. Something you may not always do, but you find you're doing consistently that works -- it might be a little glitch in the voice, it might be be a moment of pre-life. it might be a pick up swing on something you do.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: Add something that's yours, that's part of your signature, whatever that is. And just do it consistently. If it works, if it annoys people, they'll let you know. If it doesn't work over time, you'll know.   Anne: Right.   Lau: But do something that's unique to you, authentic to your persona, authentic to your process. And that's something that people will start thinking of you for as well. So many people don't even think, Anne, when they're doing an audition, they want it to be so clean that they don't even think a little, -- is good. Just like a little exclamation, a little moment of vocalization. You know what I mean? Anne: It's too perfect. It's too voice talent. It's too voice actors, too perfect. Yeah.   Lau: It's too edity.   Anne: I can't tell you the amount of times I would have a student, a lot of times this will happen with a male student who has a beautiful, like lower baritone, and at the end of their sentences they'll land it. And I'm like, you need to only give me that gift once in a while, and when I don't expect it. Because if you give me that gift every single word or every single sentence, it's gonna not be a gift anymore. And so you need to give that to me in an unexpected way that's going to capture my attention and not become the same repetitive. That's really what happens when people try to sound or mimic or imitate, unless of course you're doing an impression. But that's a different thing too. Like a lot of times people will be confused when I say that, but when you're a character, I find sometimes when people like character and they're character actors, they are able to bring authenticity to their characters more than they can bring to their own voice.   Lau: Yeah. No doubt about that. And sometimes their alter ego, if they consider it an alter ego, they're doing it all the time. They do it like a tic, it's great, they love it, whatever. Sometimes it can have more authentic appeal than their daily sound can, because their heart and soul is in it. They're so connected to the success of it.   Anne: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that's the thing, their heart and soul is connected to it. And so I'm always trying to convince people that like, you may not be a cartoon or a very dynamically changing character, but for everything that you do in voiceover, you are. You are a character. It's a version of you. It's an excited you, it's a passionate you, it's a somewhat confused you or whatever is called for in the copy. Right? It becomes that -- or I always say, you own the company. Right? If you're trying to talk about your product and sell for a company, then you own that company. So you're always a character.   Lau: It's like the argument we have in the acting world for actors who are not vocal actors, they're actors who are, you know, on camera or stage actors. They're saying, am I becoming someone else? Or am I opening the door within myself to other experiences that connect to my real history? Now I'd like to think it's the latter because I think that most people who are in this field, who are successful, can bring that connection, whether they do it through a sense memory, whether they do it through an extreme empathy exercises, they don't have to have experienced it. They have to connect to the experience. And that's a totally different thing. And ironically, a lot of folks who go through the actual experience can't emotionally connect the way you can as a vocal actor.   Anne: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.   Lau: Right? But you have to have that conduit, whatever that conduit is, to the authentic connection, you have to have it and find it.   Anne: That is what I think so many people, they just, they're coming in to do their auditions, they run into their studio and they're good readers, right? And they read it and then they apply a melody to it that makes it sound like they're in a scene, but they're not really in a scene or acting, reacting, that kind of thing. And so I think for every piece of copy, you've gotta be so in the scene that you're not even thinking about what you sound like.   Lau: Yeah. And then it becomes mono patterned.   Anne: Exactly.   Lau: And we're thinking, why am I feeling sing songy? Why am I feeling in the pattern of this?   Anne: Exactly. Exactly.   Lau: Yeah. Right.   Anne: So vocal branding, it is absolutely a thing. It is absolutely something that I think all BOSSes out there, you need to know. Understand your vocal brand, understand who you are within that vocal brand, and then be able to market that vocal brand. So make sure that it's defined, and it can evolve, by the way. It doesn't have to always be one way. You can evolve that, evolve multiple brands. Make sure that you are able to bring that front and center proudly. And that will help to, I think, get you those gigs. Good discussion.   Lau: And dirty it up. Like, don't be so perfect.   Anne: Don't be perfect.   Lau: You don't need to be so polished and perfect. Because emulating real life is like we do make mistakes, and we do have rough starts. And sometimes that will get you a job. Love it. Great discussion.   Anne: Ah, yeah.   Lau: So good.   Anne: All right. So BOSSes, it may seem difficult to make a huge impact, but as a group, we can contribute to the growth of our communities in ways that we never thought possible. You can find out more. Visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. And also great, big shout-out to my sponsor, ipDTL. You too, connect and be BOSSes. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Have an amazing week, guys. We'll see you next week.   Lau: Bye.   Anne: Bye.   Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.

The advertising landscape is changing. People want to connect with real people, not just faceless brands. Anne & Lau share their tips for putting yourself out there visually. What matters is that you are enhancing your natural essence, not turning into some inauthentic version of you. Share yourself on social media & your website. When clients see who you are, they feel like they really know you. It also makes them more likely to remember you and recommend you to others. If all else fails, present yourself in any way that makes you feel comfortable & shows those around you that you care about what you're doing.   Transcript   It’s time to take your business to the next level, the BOSS level! These are the premiere Business Owner Strategies and Successes being utilized by the industry’s top talent today. Rock your business like a BOSS, a VO BOSS! Now let’s welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.   Anne: Hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Business superpower series. I'm here, Anne Ganguzza, with my bestie, favorite special guest, co-host Lau Lapides. Hey Lau.   Lau: Hey, Anne.   Anne: You know, Lau, since I started with you, I made that decision to have all of our podcasts also be on video. And I have to do my hair, I gotta do my makeup . And I found myself increasingly out there on camera and in front of people. And remember back in the day, when you made that decision -- or maybe you didn't, but I did. It was always like, well, I don't wanna have to be in front of a camera. I just wanna be an actor behind a mic and nobody needs to see my face. Well, I think that's changed.   Lau: Mm-Hmm.   Anne: And I think it would be a good thing to talk about is it necessary for us to have a visual image as well as our voice?   Lau: And I remember actually, like it was yesterday, I remember the day where it was fairly detrimental to be seen because you would be pigeonholed. You'd be stereotyped. Like let's say I, I'm able to do a 10-year-old boy's voice for animation. Then all of a sudden you see me, and I look completely different than that. And now it's stuck in a producer's mind. That was the mindset back then of like, keep yourself hidden enough so that you're branding could go all over the map. And now it's like completely changed in so many ways.   Anne: Has it? See, 'cause that's the question I get these days, especially from character actors, or let's say actors that don't look like they sound. And so they're concerned about being pigeonholed if they show their face. But I am like, these days, especially with video being right up in the forefront right up and everybody's faces, it's so popular. And especially after coming out of the pandemic where people weren't in contact anymore, I do believe that people wanna connect with people. It's a human need to connect with people, to connect with faces. And I, for one, I cannot stand it when I cannot, let's say, call up a business to ask a question to get a real person on the phone. And I know this is weird. Where are my millennials? I'm sorry. My millennials are like, but I can text.   Anne: But even so, I like to call to make sure I can hear a voice on the other end. Or I like to meet on Zoom, a lot of times with new clients, kind of I validate them to make sure they're human. For me, it's a thing. I need to connect with humans. And I am always telling my business students that people wanna connect with a person and not necessarily a logo.   Lau: Yes. Yes. And here's pure irony. You and I come from a generation where we need to do that. Like I, I remember the days where when I needed to get a phone number, I'd call something called Information. Information was 411. And then I'd hear someone, usually the same woman, and she'd be like, hello, Information, how may I help you? And I loved talking to people. I still, I don't trust online booking for hotels. I don't trust online booking for air fare. I, I still have that in me to wanna talk to people, wanna make that connection, wanna have that trust. But here's the irony. In voiceover of those days, that's where we had a lot of announcer reads. That's where we had a lot of caricature style reads, especially in the commercial market. Today, today, no one wants to talk to each other. You'll always get a machine, you'll always be online filling out those fields online, right? You'll never be able to get customer service. But stylistically we want naturalism. We want to have naturalism.   Anne: We want authenticity. Mm-hmm. Authenticity, that's the biggest trend. Isn't that funny? And especially from the younger generation, right? They want that authenticity. So I believe that a visual image, an in-person or an on-camera or a, that kind of a thing really helps to bring the authenticity to the business.   Lau: It does. Like I wanna see you. I wanna see that you're a real person. You're not a bot, you're not an avatar. You're not a cartoon drawing. That's okay. Like I love seeing those, but that doesn't take the place of the person. I still wanna see the person. If I'm gonna work with you, hire you, cast you, whatever, I still wanna see that you're a person and get a sense of that.   Anne: And you know what's so interesting? It's gotten to the point where I am putting myself out there so much visually that I have a brand ,and you know what my brand consists of? Headphones, that might be red or blue or purple. Or I just got a really beautiful pair of navy blue, and I got a pair of blue glasses, . And I just ordered, do you know what I just ordered? A pair of red glasses. And I also ordered a wind sock that is red . Uh, so maybe when I'm gonna be in the BOSS booth recording an episode, I might have a red headphone with red lipstick with red glasses, with a red -- but it becomes a visual part of my brand and it becomes something that people recognize for me. And it becomes consistent. I believe that consistency brands recognition and brands, something being more memorable. And I think that in addition to your voice being memorable, connecting that with a human, authentic being on the other side and also adding some visual branding can really help to make you a memorable brand.   Lau: Yes. And anyone who has been an actor either on tv, done film, done theater, knows the power of wardrobe, the power of makeup, the power of a mask. You know, we'll call it a mask right now because it could be be for men as well, or whatever you identify as. You have something that you may utilize to initiate your branding visually, whatever that is. It could be a hat, it could be, as you said, glasses, lipstick, it could be even a pen that you use, even a prop that you use. You know what I mean?   Anne: Nails.   Lau: Yeah. Nails. Right. So that it sort of gives you a little bit of superpower. It gives you a little bit of dynamic to fall into that role, whatever that role is for you, that if you don't do it, and you don't have it, it's a tougher way to reach the role that you're trying to play.   Anne: And that includes websites too, because that's one of the biggest questions I get is, do I put my photo on my website? Because that has always been the biggest bone of contention, right? Because I'm a voice actor, they don't need to see my face, but again, online people, before they even know you, you want to make yourself as memorable as possible. Yes, it's wonderful to think that my voice alone could do it, but why not your voice combined with your authentic headshot? And I'm gonna say, even if you don't sound how you look, I can say there's value in having, on your about page, a photo of yourself.   I don't think that that is going to misrepresent you at all. And especially if we're talking about authenticity, right? Who is it behind the voice? I think that that really warrants a lot to showcase a photo of yourself. Now, for me, I've always been about visual branding, and so on my website, I've always had a photo of myself, my voiceover website. And I feel as though it doesn't hurt me at all. I think it probably helps me. I think that I probably look like I sound. I don't know, Lau, what do you think? Do I?   Lau: Yes. I think your visual branding matches everything else that you're doing. Not always the case with voiceover talent, but that's okay. For you, I think it's perfect. Perfect. Your visual matches your vocal. It's wonderful.   Anne: So then again, let's talk more in depth about if your visual doesn't match your vocal. Can it hurt you if you put your photo on your website or -- I mean, I feel like you're gonna have to interact with your clients at some point.   Lau: Well, that's it.   Anne: In some way. Right?   Lau: That's it. I think he, you can't avoid the unavoidable and you know, you may not always meet everyone in person, but you are going to be -- now that we're in post COVID, we're having many more in-person events come back.   Anne: Or video meetings.   Lau: Or Zoom. Yes. Mm-hmm. Video meetings. And do you always wanna have your video off? Do you always wanna look a little bit MIA, like you're not fully present? No. You wanna have the ability to have confidence and say, I like the way I look. I'm proud of the way I look. It's part of who I am as a business person. And if they misconstrued my sound with the way I look, you know, hey, what can I do about it? That's called living in the world. I would rather see someone than not for sure.   Anne: Exactly. Yeah. As a client, absolutely. I would much rather deal with someone that I can see visually. Now have I seen all of my clients visually? No. No. But I have usually contacted them via email or at one time or another, my repeat clients, right, I've seen them. I've been in a video meeting with them to discuss a project or I've contacted them for some reason one way or they've live directed me. Some people can put the camera off during one of those sessions. But I like to have it on just to say hi. Just to let people know, hi, I'm a real person. And now during my performance, I don't necessarily have to have it on me as long as I've introduced myself as a part of my business with my visual face.   Now let's talk about, is there any sort of code of how should I look? Remember a long time ago there used to be restrictions, I know, for in the workplace about hair, right? And about beards and about that sort of a thing where it wasn't considered corporate to have a beard or long hair or something like that. So what are your thoughts about today and, and for a voice talent, is there a code of anything really?   Lau: I think it's the best time, Anne, to be able to show your face because the playing field is so open now with what's acceptable, what's welcome. Everything's diversity. Everything is age, everything is background, everything is, you know -- when you go into, like even in Manhattan, when I go into some of the more corporatey kind of firms, they're very business casual. The younger generation is much more casual --   Anne: I love that.   Lau: -- than they were years ago. I love it too. So I think a lot more is acceptable. But that being said, I don't think it gives people a free pass of saying, oh, I'll just look like whatever. I'll just stick on whatever. I'll just do whatever. I would take the time to work with a coach, your coach, whoever is great with styling, great with image, great with fashion, great with branding, and say, listen, this is who I am. This is what I do. I don't wanna go too far away from my authentic, neutral self, but I wanna look really great for who I am. I wanna look put together, I wanna be fresh, I wanna have great colors, great fits.   Anne: Or you wanna look like you care.   Lau: Yeah. Yeah.   Anne: Look, there's a lot of casual people in California. I get that. I've lived here for enough years to know. But coming from the east coast to the west coast is, in terms of clothing and ideals about looks and how you would dress for a corporate job, it's actually quite a bit different. But the cool thing is like, I wear black, I wear leather. Everything I wore on the east coast, I wear on the West Coast. And I haven't changed because I've changed where I've lived. And the cool thing is, is that it allows me to be me. I mean California, for all their casualness, you don't have to put on fancy clothes. But I think also you don't wanna look like that you don't care about your appearance.   Lau: Exactly.   Anne: And so I think that no matter what you have, like, and I remember, gosh, I remember tattoos weren't a thing either. This is my corporate background coming in. Tattoos weren't a thing, nose piercings that -- I've always wanted to get a nose piercing, by the way. This is, this is is Anne's admission. And I think I'm going to get one.   Lau: The truth comes out.   Anne: At this age, I am going to get one, a very small delicate, 'cause I'm a, I'm a bling girl. Right? And I feel like a small bling right here would look awesome.   Lau: Do it, do it.   Anne: But, so now people are gonna hold me to it. So maybe at one point, everybody, BOSSes out there, you'll see me with a little bit of a nose, a nose pierce.   Lau: A little diamond bling right there.   Anne: Little diamond bling. 'Cause it's --   Lau: I love it.   Anne: I like the bling.   Lau: I love it.   Anne: But yeah, I do think that as long as you're showing your authentic you and it's something that your authentic you is something you care about, I think that presents -- because again, it's personal, but don't forget that our personal brand is a business brand. And so we're representing ourselves to people who might want to hire us or maybe not hire us based upon our looks. Is that a thing? True. I mean, I think if we're gonna be brave and show our face and show who we are, we have to also accept the fact that maybe people won't hire us based upon our looks. Lau, thoughts?   Lau: Yeah. If you're meeting people too, which you and I are meeting people all the time, whether we're on Zoom or we're in person, we're meeting people, you know, how do we come across? How do we look them in the eye? Do we smile, all this stuff? So I don't want it to seem like you have to put on armor to meet people. But you wanna enhance your natural beauty, your natural essence, your natural energy. It's sort of like the rule of thumb for a really great actor headshot is I don't want it to be glamorous. I don't want it to be overdone. I want it to be super natural and look like you on a really great day.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: So that's sort of the rule of thumb. And ask yourself this question, look at all the businesses out there that now have the owners or the people working in the business show their visual faces. Real estate agents, they all have their faces on cards, right. We have a lot of branding in advertising for everything from furniture to cars to on and on it goes of people who own the dealership, people who run the furniture stores, and, and you're thinking, well why? Why are they on there? Why don't they have, you know, beautiful looking talent on there that are gorgeous? No. Because people wanna see real people. They wanna see who they're creating relationship with to buy these products, but they just wanna make sure that they look good on a good day. They don't wanna roll outta bed. You know?   Anne: Do you remember Don LaFontaine for many years? We heard his voice, heard his voice, heard his voice, and then he started doing the commercials where he, he was in person? I love that. And also because you're on the east coast, oh Lau, please let me know if you -- Men's Warehouse, do you remember his voice? Oh my gosh, for years --   Lau: Oh yes!   Anne: The guy who owned Men's Warehouse had the most beautiful voice and I thought, wow, he should be doing more voiceover instead of his commercials. And then they showed him on the commercial. And so he brought his visual brand, and I loved it. I absolutely loved finding out who the person was behind the voice. And --   Lau: And now they all do it. Now they all do it. And sometimes you're looking and you're going, I'd rather they stayed behind the camera. . Like, you know, they have these deep, you know, Boston accents, you know, come on in and buy a sofah.   Anne: Yeah, yeah.   Lau: You know, what I mean? But the point is, that's what the largest demographic in the commercial market really wants. They want approachable, natural, authentic, real authentic.   Anne: And you know, just like, okay, so just like being an announcer has gone off trend, right? And whenever we get behind that mic, we feel like we have to put on that voice. Here is my voiceover voice. Hello, I'm Anne and this is my voiceover voice. Like that's a put on kind of a -- like people want more authentic. Now character, we're talking something completely different, right? Because you become that character, but you're becoming an authentic character, right? So just as, we don't necessarily like inauthentic sounding or inauthentic in social media where everything's always perfect, we like the authentic person, and that visual brand helps to bring out that authenticity. And I think that is something that can truly help elevate your business as scared as you are.   And for all of the people out there who have gotten into voiceover, because, well I got into voiceover so they didn't have to see my face. Well, I think it's time guys for you to appear and show up to your businesses and show up because we wanna connect with you. And I'm always talking in terms of performance, when I'm trying to get that conversational read, even for narration, right? I'm trying to get that engagement. It's that back and forth. That visual can help you. I'm always talking about, I want that authenticity, I want that engagement. Your visual brand can help you. And that visual brand is in person, when you meet people, your website, it can be a great indicator for your visual brand as well. Even if it's just a picture of you on the about page. I think that it's something that can bring a lot of value, a lot of value.   Lau: I agree. And I think you feel differently. You internalize your external. So you know, it's a fine line. Like we're not all about what we look like. We're not all about what externally comes out. But there is a deep connection between what I'm internally emotionalizing and feeling and what I'm externally giving out to the world. And so I think we can learn a lot from actors who are going for visual roles that they don't dress in costume, and they shouldn't dress in costume for an audition, but they should give a flavor, give a hint of the character in how they're gonna present themselves when they walk in the room.   Anne: And it's always bringing themselves to the character. Right? That really is the winning --   Lau: Yeah, you're gonna do --   Anne: It's the winning. Right? Your twist. Your unique, authentic twist to the story no matter what. Whether you're performing behind the mic, performing in front of the camera, your online storefront, whatever that is, it's helping you to bring that organic, authentic part of you to the role. And even yeah, as you say, character acting.   Lau: If you're gonna do a narration, a corporate narration gig, don't come in wearing your old t-shirt and shorts and flip flops because there's gonna be a little bit of a psychological jump for you to do to that particular job. Come in, you know, come into your booth in your home.   Anne: You're coming into it as an employee, right? In reality, if they've hired you to be the voice of their brand, you are now an employee of that company. So now, dress visually and I think emote as if you were a part of their brand, which you are. If they've hired you and they're going to pay you, you are now an employee, quote unquote, of that company. So.   Lau: Yeah, there's a culture. So there's always this culture to every gig, every client, every happening that shifts and changes. It really doesn't and shouldn't stay the same. To have the mindset of like, well they'll just accept me the way I am -- okay. Sometimes they do. But sometimes they don't. Sometimes they want to have a visual mirror as to who they are, how they're coming in, how they feel about the work. Same with your clients that are your coaching clients or demo clients.   Anne: Sure.   Lau: They wanna feel comfortable that you understand where they're coming from. And sometimes that's visual cues.   Anne: It's very interesting because I coach without visual, I do not coach through Zoom. I coach through ipDTL. Yay, love ip -- why do I coach through ipDTL? Because it's a high quality audio connection, and I need to hear those nuances, especially when I'm doing long format coaching for narration, medical, nuance is everything -- actually nuance is everything for every part of voiceover I think. But that's me. And so I need to be able to hear really well. I need to be able to hear that coming through. And it's interesting 'cause I'll coach a student 10, 20 sessions, and then I'll talk to them over Zoom when I reveal their demo. I always do a Zoom reveal so I can finally meet them. And most of the time I'm not necessarily surprised at how they look 'cause they have a presence on social media or they look like they sound. But sometimes I am completely surprised and pleasantly so. I've never been unpleasantly surprised. But absolutely when I've seen someone, I'm like, wow, I had no idea.   And so I think a lot of times when I'm coaching for voiceover, right, that is primary is voiceover is your voice and hearing the nuances in your voice. But I always wanna hear your authentic self come through in the voice. But always, especially when you're representing a company, you are the employee of that company. But I need your unique, authentic self to come through. And a lot of times that authentic self is your personality. Right? A lot of times your voiceover, I think, is made better by your personality, your unique personality that you bring to it. Because I'm here to help you, I'm here to serve you, I'm here to tell you about this great product that you're -- it's always positive. I don't think we're ever, unless we're doing character work, right? I don't think we're ever emoting things that are negative. Right? Typically we're not hired for negative sounding voiceovers or angry voiceovers, again, unless we're a character. It's mostly a positive, comes from the heart, from a helpful situation. What are your thoughts on that, Lau?   Lau: Oh, I agree. I agree. And I, I mean when you consider how many people out there that are visual learners, they literally take in information, process information and create quick output based on what they're taking in visually. Like I have to give them something to work with if I have the ability to. If they don't see me, they see nothing visual that I do, well, okay. But oftentimes they will, they'll go to my website. They'll go to your social, they'll go to something that has you on it, whatever that is, . And they'll say quickly, do I feel comfortable with this person? Happens in like two seconds.   Anne: Excellent point. And I'm glad you brought that up because whether people decide to put their picture on their website, which is the biggest question I get, or not, right, there's social media somewhere, somewhere out there, there's going to be a photo of you that someone might discover. And maybe that's not the photo that you want them to discover first. Maybe it could be a photo from years ago when you weren't in voiceover or maybe you're being crazy and you know, having fun at a party. Maybe that's not the first photo that you want your potential client to see.   So I figure if you're going to put out a photo, put out that photo that is authentic you now and not you maybe 20 years ago when you weren't doing voiceover. And that's what a lot of my argument is. They're like, yeah, but I, you know, they're not hiring me for my face. And I'm like, true. But they wanna connect with a human being. And by the way, if they really wanted to, they probably could find a picture of you somewhere out there on the internet.   Lau: Yeah. And you know, it's really interesting too. Like it's, this is on topic, off topic. It's like when we were at the conference out in LA, you and I were at that conference out in LA, which we had a fab time, and I pay attention 'cause I listen, listen, listen for cues -- this is all face-to-face in person -- when I'm going through the steps of speaking at that conference, I'm listening to comments to me and comments about me, about who I am and about my brand. And a number of times I heard sometimes from men, sometimes from women, like, oh, I'm standing next to this beautiful woman right here. Or oh, this pretty lady, whatever. Or isn't she just sweet whatever, making initial comment on my visual in the way I look.   And I take it all in because I say, well, that's what they're getting in the first 5, 10, 15 seconds of not really knowing me, just kind of knowing my brand or knowing my name, whatever, I'll take it. I'm not offended by any of it because I feel like people wanna find the quick way to make themselves feel comfortable with you.   Anne: Yeah.   Lau: Whatever it is. Maybe I look like their mom, maybe I look like their wife, maybe I look like their daughter. Maybe I have an elegant presence to them in some way. Great. I'll take it. Rather than them saying, oh, you know, she could have switched out that sweatshirt. You know what I mean? She could have put some nice --   Anne: She could have put some nice clothes. Not dirty. That would be my mother talking.   Lau: Yeah. She could've put some, you know, taken off the dirty tennis shoes to come here. You know what I mean? It's--   Anne: My mother who always, you know what I'm saying? My mother, my mother did. Your mother, my mother used to say this all the, all the time she could like if I was going on, she goes, now make sure you put clean underwear on in case you get into an accident.   Lau: Yeah. In case you're an accident.   Anne: Yes. Oh my gosh. . So, but Lau, you know what's so interesting that you mentioned that when I first met you, I think one thing that was instantly drawn to was your smile and your laugh. And that I feel is like an inherent part of who you are and your personality. And again, I feel like that was a visual before I even heard you. Because remember we met during that webinar, we met on video.   Lau: Yes.   Anne: And I just remember your smile and your laugh and I thought instantly it was an instant connection. And I feel like that's what you want to be to your clients. You want to have an instant connection with your clients.   Lau: You do. And to the point where it's so deeply psychological, they feel they know you. They feel they know you already. Like they really know you and you're thinking, I don't think you know me or they don't know me, but that's okay. That's okay. I want to know you. I'm going to know you. And if this is just a first step, then this is just a first step.   Anne: And I feel if you're on social media at all, right? Social media is so visual these days. Right? I mean if you are on social media, you're probably throwing out a picture, a picture, maybe not of you, but it could be of your family, could be of your fur babies, could be of -- you're throwing out images of your authentic self. We hope. Right? Because sometimes, as we know is the issue with social media is it becomes the fake presence. But I think if any of you are on social media at all and you've got potential clients everywhere, and they could be seeing your presence socially before they even consider hiring you, and that social impression that they get from you could be from comments that you're making or pictures that you're sharing. Everything's video now. TikTok, Instagram reels. Facebook reels. And I feel like it's almost impossible for you to not showcase your visual on social media these days.   Lau: Yeah. It is. Like you can't get away from it at all. Even if people are taking photos at an event that you attended, you're gonna show up somewhere in the photo. And they may not always be a great photo, but the point is you gotta stay at home and never leave and be super careful to not be caught in some sort of visual. And even in your branding, you have to put out some sort of visual for your branding.   Anne: And I think if your fear is being pigeonholed, I think your vocal type might be pigeonholed anyways if you have a very unique voice. Right? I think when you're talking like a very young voice for your age or any type of voice that is different than you look like, whether you put your picture out there or not, I feel like you're going to be cast in a certain role.   For example, if you have a very high pitched voice right now, although now it's becoming more commonplace, maybe you wouldn't be cast for an older personality that's buying, I don't know, bifocals. So whether your photo is out there or not, your voice is gonna be cast in that way or not based upon the sound or the perceived sound that the client is looking for. So I don't think it matters if you post a photo of yourself on your website that doesn't represent your voice because they're hiring you for the voice, and the voice is then being cast in a role as they see fit. But your authenticity comes through in that voice.   Lau: Yes. And everything's subjective at the end of the day, like you can't get away from subjectivity. That's human nature. We're based on our own frame of reference, how we are perceiving you and how we're taking you in. So I don't think we can fully control that. But there is something, I think, especially with someone who doesn't know you, there is a psychological bond that happens quickly when they perceive that you care.   Anne: Yeah. Yeah.   Lau: They perceive you care enough to put yourself together, to do that little extra whatever it is you are doing, whether it's your hair, or your materials -- or as a woman, Anne, we talk about this all the time, I get so many people who say, Hey Lau, I love what you're wearing. What's that necklace you're wearing? Or where'd you get that ring? Or da da da. Sounds kind of materialistic, but it's something that they can connect to you on. Something that they care about, something that makes them feel comfortable. And then you'll make that chitchat based exactly on, oh, where I got this or what is that? Or, and then that always leads to the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing.   Anne: Absolutely.   Lau: And so that, that's valuable.   Anne: And people who know you because of what you've put out there, like visually and/or audibly, right, becomes a point of connection that you can then use to be memorable in your brand. So great discussion. So guys, if you're afraid to put your pho -- don't be afraid to put your photo out there. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there on video. Don't be afraid to put yourself out there in person, in front of your potential clients, in front of your clients. It is a piece of who you are, it is a piece of your brand, and it's a piece of your business.   Lau: I'm with you all the way.   Anne: Well, thank you, Lau, for another thrilling discussion. I love, I love, love, love talking to you every week.   Lau: I love it too. And may I say we look fabulous today.   Anne: Yes. We thank you , because we're our authentic selves. So with that, I'd like to give a great shout out to ipDTL. You too can network, communicate like BOSS. Find out more at ipdtl.com. And also if you have a local nonprofit that's close to your heart, if you've ever wanted to help them, you can visit 100voiceswhocare.org to learn how. You guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Thanks so much. Bye.   Lau: Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host Anne Ganguzza. And take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voBOSS.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipDTL.