VO BOSS

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by Tom Dheere to tackle a topic many voice actors fear most: marketing. In this episode, they break down the essential difference between direct marketing (you go to them) and indirect marketing (they come to you). The hosts discuss how to make both strategies work for you, offering a powerful, actionable roadmap for building a sustainable voiceover business. 00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anneganguzza.com.  00:25 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:44 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Real Boss series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with Mr Tom Dheere. Hello, hello, hello, the Real Boss, Tom Dheere.  00:56 - Tom (Guest) Hi, I'm seeing the light ring in my glasses. I'm going to change. I want to change these.  01:01 - Anne (Host) Wait, I thought you said I'm seeing the light.  01:03 - Tom (Guest) I'm seeing the light. Well, yeah, no, but the light was seeing me and my glasses, so I'm switching over. I have, like different pairs of glasses for where I'm at.  01:11 - Anne (Host) No, really. So like these are better. I hear that. I hear that Yours are part of a marketing strategy.  01:18 - Tom (Guest) Mine are purely because my eyeballs are decomposing. I can hear them.  01:22 - Anne (Host) But me too, though, I need them as well, and I figure I might as well make them part of a marketing strategy. And speaking of marketing, yes. Great segue, isn't it? I think it's one of the most feared things for any voice actor is to actually think and do marketing, and so it's a great topic to talk about, because, I mean, we could talk like multiple podcasts about it, but let's talk about marketing Indirect marketing, direct marketing. They're both important.  01:49 - Tom (Guest) Yes, absolutely.  01:50 - Anne (Host) Let's distinguish the difference.  01:52 - Tom (Guest) Right, and this is the thing that when most people come into the voiceover industry, they think and their instinct is correct, so I need to market myself. What does that mean? For most people, it's slamming into social media sideways and talking about what they had for breakfast, or it most often means cold calls and cold emails. Now, you can clearly lump all of that stuff together into marketing, but there's a lot more to it. It's a lot more nuanced than that.  02:18 - Anne (Host) You say the word cold calls and I think people go cold. I know they do. They're like oh no cold calls now.  02:25 - Tom (Guest) So the way I talk about it is that there is direct marketing and then there is indirect marketing, also known as active marketing or passive marketing. So direct or active marketing is when you are seeking out specific potential clients and you are basically grabbing them by the lapels and saying, hey, you give me money to say stuff out loud.  02:48 - Anne (Host) Here I am. Hello, this is me.  02:50 - Tom (Guest) Hello, right Now that's a cold call, that is a cold email. There's also follow-up emails and getting your seven touches.  02:57 - Anne (Host) And that's direct, because it's direct contact with a potential client.  03:01 - Tom (Guest) Exactly. And then there is indirect marketing, which is where you're kind of like doing your thing over here in hopes that people or robots will notice you Right and come to you Right. So, for example, working on search engine optimization on your website, that's a form of indirect marketing or passive marketing, because if somebody's searching for you, hopefully your website or your content will rank higher on Google, bing, yahoo and they'll be like, hey, who's this person? And then they reach out to you Right.  03:30 - Anne (Host) Or they're seeing you on social media.  03:32 - Tom (Guest) Social media, exactly, is another perfect example of indirect marketing. So that's where you're kind of like demonstrating your value, your progress, your humanity as a voice actor and a person, in hopes that it will get voice seekers' attention and be engaged with your content and hopefully you'll stay top of mind for future projects.  03:50 - Anne (Host) An easy I would say an easy way of thinking about it is direct marketing. You go to them In direct marketing. They're coming to you.  03:58 - Tom (Guest) Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly right.  04:00 - Anne (Host) I think, equally terrifying for voice actors yes, yes, I think that it's great that we made the distinction now between the two.  04:09 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And.  04:09 - Anne (Host) I think the one that really causes people probably the most terror is the direct marketing part of it, because they have to reach out to someone who is a complete stranger to them and that we are a complete stranger to them and they're a complete stranger to us. And so direct marketing, I think, requires, I think, a little more knowledge, so it makes it a little less scary.  04:29 - Tom (Guest) I think so too.  04:36 - Anne (Host) That's the way I see it, and what I try to explain to a lot of my students who talk about marketing and their fear of marketing is, of course, all the indirect methods, which they're probably much more apt to do, because they can create a blog, they can go on social media, they can create a video, they can do things like that, and that to them, I think, is more of a concrete path than oh my God, I got to go find someone. Who do I reach out to, what do I say and how does that work? And so I think the first distinction that I want to make with direct marketing is to make it less terrifying. Is that I want to make with direct marketing is to make it less terrifying is just an understanding that people have needs. How many times can I bring up the Chanel lipstick, right?  05:09 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) How many times it's a great example.  05:10 - Anne (Host) I just keep going back to it where here's the Chanel lipstick. It is part of my brand and I want to work with this company, chanel, and so ultimately, they don't know who I am. I mean, I kind of know who they are, but I don't know exactly who I should contact. And so when does Chanel have a need for voiceover? Right, when they have a campaign, right when they have a campaign and when maybe they have a voiceover and they want to replace that voice, and so it's very much based on need and when they need voiceover, a voiceover.  05:41 It's not that. Oh, I'm going to reach out and I never heard back and therefore that's a bad lead or it didn't work or I'm done. I failed. You cannot think that, guys, because it's all on a timely basis, so when I need a new lipstick, I'm not constantly searching for a new lipstick, but when I need one, then if an email comes my way or a social media ad comes my way talking about a new shade of red, I'll be like, oh, I need that, let me look into it.  06:10 And that's the same thing that, as a voice actor, you need to understand about direct marketing.  06:14 - Tom (Guest) Right, put it another way. And what are the client's pain points? How can you cure what ails them? How can you solve their problems? So I'm going to take your Chanel lipstick example and I'm going to continue it. So let's put it in voiceover terms Chanel wants to advertise that lipstick. So they want to make advertisements of some sort. It could be print, it could be digital, it could be TV, radio streaming or whatever. Right, chanel?  06:42 - Anne (Host) Look to me, Chanel. I talk about you all the time. I'm just saying In my podcast Please make Anne a compensated endorser for your lovely products.  06:51 - Tom (Guest) So Chanel usually would have to hire a marketing agency or an ad firm or something like that to come up with whatever. The concept would be. Okay, well, this is Chanel, it's this type of lipstick, we're targeting this type of audience, or they?  07:04 have it in-house or they have it in-house and they'll say, okay, well, our demographic is women of this particular age range.  07:19 Okay, so we need to make sure that the content and context of the advertisement is making sure that we're targeting that particular demographic.  07:22 It needs to appeal to them on a visual or an auditory level or some other combination of that. Maybe we need to get an influencer in here or a celebrity or something like that, but we still need a voice actor to do whatever the radio or streaming or TV is. So they come up with a concept, they write the script. Now they need to get a production company to turn this script into reality and then the production company now this is where they have choices. They can go to a casting director and a casting director and the casting director can then reach out to agents and managers to find the voice actors. They can post that casting notice on a casting site like a Voice 123 or a VO Planet or a Badalgo, or they can have their own roster of voice actors that every time a casting notice comes up, they go through their own list of voice actors. That every time a casting notice comes up, they go through their own list of voice actors and then send the casting notices out to the appropriate voice actors to collect auditions right.  08:12 - Anne (Host) Before you continue, I'm going to intercept and say all right, let's talk about how often do they need this right? That is something that is the big unknown right. How often are they needing a new campaign? And that is something that I think is the most ambiguous, maybe, to the voice actor, because we don't know we don't work for the company, we don't know how often they need these new ads. So what I don't want people to expect, and I think what a lot of people do expect, is like well, I reached out to them and they don't want me. Well, they don't have a need for you Yet. Yeah, and I don't think it's appropriate to think that any one company needs a voice actor 24-7.  08:48 - Tom (Guest) Unless you're Joseph Riano.  08:50 - Anne (Host) But that's a different genre, right. That's promo, that's a different genre, that's promo and that's actually a network right.  08:55 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Right.  08:55 - Anne (Host) That, yeah, you're required to do these ads because things change all the time. Chanel lipstick how often are they coming up with new colors? How often are they coming up with new colors? There's seasons, right? How often are they coming up with new lipsticks? Right? That is not necessarily a daily. Companies don't come out with new products every single day, so therefore they may not have a need. So please keep that in mind, guys, because I think a lot of people get discouraged when they don't hear back. Marketing is the long haul. It's a marathon, not a sprint.  09:21 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, getting auditions from your agents and managers and getting auditions from online casting sites. Those are short term. There's an audition right now. You audition for it right now Because they've had a need Right. Using direct and indirect marketing strategies is a long-term investment in developing relationships with clients Big distinction. A lot of people argue oh, agents are better than this and this is better than that, and none of that is true.  09:46 All of it's extremely subjective, based on the genres of voiceover that you want to do and the marketing methods and comfort level that you have with technology and interpersonal stuff. Like some people will be like I'll make cold calls all day. I love doing it. And some people are like I'm terrified of talking to people. I will only post stuff on social media and I will only talk about in a very narrow way and all of that is fine. But to Anne's point. Well, first off, we're thinking about them a lot more than they're thinking about us.  10:13 - Anne (Host) Oh my God, yes, amen, amen. That is so very true, because we want to be hired by them.  10:19 - Tom (Guest) Right, of course, and to Anne's point, they don't need any voiceover for a product or service or brand at this moment in time, and when they do, it may not necessarily be you and a lot of the times they don't have any control over the product or service or brand and what the demands there are from the end client or the ad agency or the marketing firm or the campaign that dictates the quality and quantity of the demographics of the voice actors that they're needed for that particular campaign. Right, and with a campaign that dictates the quality and quantity of the demographics of the voice actors that they're needed for that particular campaign.  10:48 - Anne (Host) Right, and with a campaign, typically they want to have, like in any kind of a brand, consistency right. Typically, if there's a product and you're the voice of that product or that brand, it typically is something that will be recurring for a certain amount of time. It's not like today's ad is going to feature my voice and tomorrow it's going to feature somebody else's voice. They want to work in a little bit of consistency for that brand and that includes the voice. So understand that they're not having a need for a new voice actor every single time they're airing the ad or putting it out there on social media. That may be.  11:19 You are a voice for a campaign which runs for a certain length of time, which is why we base our rates especially when it's broadcast right on where it's being played and for how long Because we are a voice for that particular time, for that particular campaign. Now, if they want to extend that right, they will pay to extend that or they'll find a new voice if they're looking for that.  11:42 - Tom (Guest) Right, we love the rebuys where you narrate something and it's good for a certain period. I got that phone call two weeks ago. I did a social media ad and for a six month term, and they literally called me on the phone. They're like, hey, they want to do it again, bill us, yeah, and I just build them. And they're like, oh, and we have two more spots. That's the wonderful part.  11:59 - Anne (Host) But the thing is is like for that particular brand, right Voice actors. If you're going to reach out to that same company and say, hey, I'm a voice actor, hire me. Well, they've got Tom right For reasons within the campaign. If his voice is working and that's what they want, they're going to continue to have Tom. So don't take it personally, don't beat Tom up.  12:19 - Tom (Guest) Tom is like sorry not sorry, Sorry, not sorry Sorry not sorry, sorry, not sorry.  12:22 - Anne (Host) I think we just have sometimes a very narrow view of what it's like on the other side of the glass and to have that need and that desire to create a campaign with a voice, and so you have to be understanding of the way it works.  12:34 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, another point on that is that late last year a voice actor posted on Facebook an infographic that I want to say it was. An explainer video producer posted an infographic. They tracked the amount of hours that it takes to produce an explainer video, which obviously includes concept writing, storyboard, budget, legal department, music and all of that stuff, and the amount, the percentage that involved the voice actor, was 1.5%. Yeah, 1.5%. So often we as voice actors are an afterthought.  13:06 - Anne (Host) Yeah, we're the last part of the journey there.  13:08 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, and sometimes I'll just ask around the office, or their niece, who's a musical theater major, and they just give it to them and that's it.  13:15 - Anne (Host) But yes, obviously casting notices are posted everywhere all the time and it's so funny because I mean, when I'm doing oh, it's funny because I'm dabbling a little bit in fashion and when I'm creating videos, I mean my main thing is that I'm talking about the brand or I'm showcasing the brand, but a lot of times the videos don't even require the voice. Unless I'm directly talking about the brand, I can put music behind it. And it's funny because in my process of creating the video right for, let say, the brands that I'm working for the last thing I put in is the voice. It's the last thing I do, unless I'm doing a direct-to-camera like hey guys, this is an amazing product. Then it all happens together, right, and then the video editing happens and my voice is already there talking about it.  13:57 But a lot of times I'm not necessarily, or I'm doing a voiceover after the fact, and so, yeah, we become like the last part of the project, and so that's something to also be aware of. It's not that we're not important, we're very important, but you have to understand where in the chain of events that it happens. That's why people, when they cast, they want to cast typically like quickly, right, they want to find that voice and just put it into the video that's already been done, and then music and sound effects, because, again, like Tom you mentioned, we're typically the last part.  14:31 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, and from what I've noticed in my casting notices over the past decade or so is that the turnaround time for casting is usually about 48 hours, and then from the recording of it is probably another 48 hours. Sometimes it's even quicker than that. So usually that means if this project took six weeks or two months or whatever that means at most not. I'm not saying a week is spent on the voiceover, it's just that everything that needs to happen regarding the voiceover is probably a handful of hours within one week, and then that's it.  15:04 So the point is, bosses, is that if you are engaging in direct marketing strategies, like cold calls or emails, and you're doing your follow-up emails and reaching out on social media, like directly in sending the messages and stuff like that you have to manage your expectations. I was reading a study that since 2014, the return on cold calls and emails has dropped by 10% every year for the past 10 years. And guess what? 10% times 10 years equals 100%. So it doesn't mean they're not effective at all anymore. But now the expectation of them actually getting your email or answering your phone call and responding positively is between 1% and 3%. It is a very, very small percentage, which means also this is a numbers game.  15:49 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, but it's not impossible.  15:52 - Tom (Guest) No, it's not impossible. You want to be smart about it.  15:55 - Anne (Host) Yeah, what I'm always telling people because I have a Boss Blast product and I know you also do a lot of educational courses on direct marketing. It's something that you need to understand. It's definitely a marathon, not a sprint, kind of a game, and the good thing about it is that once you do connect and once you're in front of the eyes of someone who has the power to hire you and award you the gig, typically you want to stay top of mind, and that's when you're talking about marketing. Staying top of mind is always a good thing. You're talking about marketing. Staying top of mind is always a good thing. That's when they'll call you and say, hey, we want to extend this for another 13 weeks or we want to extend this again. So once you hook them, hopefully you keep them, and that's where the challenge is.  16:36 You know auditions. You know there's a need already. You audition and they cast because they're at that stage in the project where that's what they need. Right, they need that voice. But when you're direct marketing and you're reaching out, they may not have that need right away. They might think about you and say, oh okay, I like that voice. I don't have a need for her right now, but maybe let me put her to the side and let's when another campaign comes up that I think she's good for and I get that all the time when I'm on a few different rosters They'll contact me directly and say, hey look, I think you'd be a perfect voice for this campaign. Can you send me an audition? And typically, boom, that's good because it's a cold lead that turned into a warm lead and that is nice because I didn't have to really do much effort because I'm on his radar.  17:18 So when you're direct marketing, tom, the other important thing to understand is not only how it works right and understand and the expectations. It is how do you know who to contact right? And how do you contact them without being spammed? Because, guess what? We all get spam every single day. I get phone calls still that I don't pick up the phone. I get emails that are scammers, that are just junk email I don't even bother to look at. I see the subject line and I'm like nope, so I'm not going to be spamming. In today's world where it is getting increasingly hard. How do you do it right? That's the question, that's the golden question, right? How do you do it? How do you get their attention?  17:55 - Tom (Guest) Well, I've learned a couple of just some just brief bullet pointy bits of advice is be concise, be brief, be professional, but be you as much as you can If you have a very formal subject line or a very prim and proper paragraph. Hi, my name is this, I do this, I do that, I can do this, and every sentence starts with the word I Delete Immediate turn off.  18:21 - Anne (Host) It's about how you can help the company.  18:23 - Tom (Guest) Yes, it's how you can bring value to their company. It's not about you Solve their pain point. Exactly, solve the pain point. What can you do for them? But don't make it I, I, I Make it about. You need this, you need this. Your problem is this your problem can be solved with my services as a voice actor, but at the same time, be you as much as you can be you, be as personable as you can. Funny goes a long way and showing that you know about them.  18:54 - Anne (Host) Yes, because it becomes like these are two strangers meeting in the night, right? So what makes that meeting more agreeable? Well, if I have done my homework, it's kind of like God the olden days, tom, when I used to go on interviews for like corporate jobs. Right, you wouldn't go into a corporate interview for a job and not know anything about the company that you're applying to.  19:15 Right, I mean that was the biggest no-no was no. You've got to understand what does the company make, what are the products that it makes and what is it that is attracting you to this company? So if you can offer some insight into their company and why it is that you feel it would be a beneficial partnership, then definitely reaching out with how you can solve their pain point and showing that you're interested in them and not just like I, I, I and I'm a great voice actor and listen to my talent. It's not about you at all. It's about how you can help them right to sell their product or to sell their brand.  19:48 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, your job is a problem solver. Yeah, don't treat them like a cash register and your email is a crowbar.  19:54 - Anne (Host) Oh, I like that, that visual.  19:57 - Tom (Guest) You know he's kind of like give me the money to say the things have you said that before?  20:00 - Anne (Host) Did you just grab that from there? That was great.  20:02 - Tom (Guest) I've said it in various permutations of that over the years. But yeah, yeah, I've also said we try to treat voice seekers like ATMs. Yeah, because we only see them as these machines that can give us money. Yeah, absolutely. These are people that have their own needs and challenges.  20:17 They are human beings that have their own struggles creative, logistical, financial, cultural struggles. And if voiceover is 1.5% of their thought processes in any given project, 5% of their thought processes in any given project, you want that 1.5% to be maybe the easiest and most entertaining, 1.5% to make everything a little bit easier.  20:38 - Anne (Host) Don't give them homework. That's what I always say. Don't give them homework, Don't make them try to research you. Don't give them homework. Just be there to let them know that you can help them and that you have a genuine interest in their company, in their product, in wanting to serve them and to help them, to make their jobs easier. Really, I think that's the point, and anybody that's worked in the corporate world knows that they want their job to be easier. They're working for someone, typically, and they have a lot on their plate. They don't want to be bogged down by, oh my God, a big, lengthy email that is going on and on and on and self-serving.  21:14 I know that when I get emails and I like to talk a lot. I think that's the problem, Tom. As voice actors, we like to talk right, and sometimes that transcribes right into our emails. I used to write these emails that were like paragraphs, paragraphs. Nobody has time for that and I would love to write paragraphs of an email and I would spend so much time.  21:32 I remember when I broke down what I did in my corporate job. I spent the majority of my time writing customer service emails and they were long emails and the funny thing is, I would get offended if people three quarters of the way down, if I put an important fact and then somebody wrote me back and then asked me a question about that fact, I'd be like how could you not have read that email? I spent so much time on it Because people don't have the capacity right to read a big, long, horribly boring email and also you are encroaching upon their time. I get so many emails a day, Tom, we've talked about this before. I have like a million some odd unread emails in my Gmail on purpose, because I want to see the marketing. I want to see the marketing that people are doing, and you just have to understand that you're taking up a part of their day, and so I think you need to like, deserve that.  22:18 And you need to prove that you're worthy of that 1.5% of their time. And so that means, if they don't want to hear from you again, if you've presented yourself in a way where they don't have a need for you, or maybe you I don't know, maybe you're all self-serving and they're like I don't need this they need to have a way to not get those emails from you ever, ever again. So there are legal ramifications of you reaching out to somebody unsolicited, typically in any direct marketing. That is the next thing that I want to bring up.  22:46 Tom, in any direct marketing you have to have permission to send an email. And if you don't necessarily have direct permission, you have to offer them a way to opt out of the emails that you send to them. And that includes, when you send that cold email, something at the bottom that says if you would like to unsubscribe to these emails, give them a way to opt out of that. And you also must provide and this is just good business measure you have to provide legally an address of your company on your emails. So when you send those emails out, you have to give them a way to opt out of the emails and you have to give them your business address.  23:23 - Tom (Guest) Absolutely, because you don't want the internet to give you the ban. Hammer if you're sending out hundreds or thousands of these emails at the same time. Manhammer if you're sending out hundreds or thousands of these emails at the same time. So I've heard recently that the era of spray and pray is over, but it's not just for all the marketing value pain points provide value stuff, but it's also because of the internet, as we as a people has just had it with all of these spammy carbon copy templaty desperate has just had it with all of these spammy carbon copy templaty. Desperate, aggressive, obnoxious, self-aggrandizing emails that we're getting over and over again, because we can't tell what's real and what's fake anymore when the phone rings or when an email comes in or when we see a social media post. So people are cracking down and being like we have no tolerance for this. I would rather send less emails that have more value than more emails that have more value than more emails that have value, and hope for the occasional hit.  24:13 - Anne (Host) And again, if you are sending out mass emails and that's a whole nother thing with direct marketing, not many people have the provision to send out thousands of emails at one time because most, unless you're paying for that service, which I do for the boss blast I pay for that service. I am able to send out lots of emails at a time. It's done through a server which doesn't do it all at once. And also the people that I'm sending it to have already opted in to me, marketing to them, and still, at the very least, I have to put. Here's a way to opt out and here's my business address and they only allow from my domain, the, and they only allow from my domain, the VO Boss domain. So anybody that buys a Boss Blast, you are actually getting a list that has already opted in to be marketed to and they have all the legal rights to opt out if they want.  24:58 Most people don't, because they've opted in for a reason, but it's something that I would say most voice actors can't afford because you typically pay by the contact. So my server, which is ActiveCampaign, I pay by the contact, so contact. So my server, which is ActiveCampaign, I pay by the contact. So I have a few hundred thousand contacts that I pay for in order to be able to send emails out to that, and that's not something necessarily that every voice actor has the budget to do, which is why I offered the Boss Blast.  25:22 And this isn't all just about the Boss Blast, but it's anytime you're talking about doing direct mail, quality over quantity unless you have the provision to send out quantity, which is something that I pay thousands of dollars for, and I also make sure I got all the legal ramifications for people to opt out if they need to. But you need to do the same thing on a smaller scale, and direct marketing, I feel, is one of the methods of marketing that needs to be implemented so that in combination with indirect marketing. And you've got to do it. Gosh Tom, how much percentage of your time would you say? I would say 80%, if not a little bit more when things are lean.  25:58 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, when things are slow I immediately go to market, absolutely. But when things are busy, I have learned also to keep doing my marketing. So there, aren't as many slow periods.  26:09 So, yes, direct marketing can and should be part of a balanced breakfast. That is, every voice actor. If you can get quality representation audition through your agents and managers, if you understand how to feed the algorithms of online casting sites, use them to keep the flow of auditions coming in. Direct marketing with thoughtful, value-driven emails. Indirect marketing with thoughtful, value-driven emails. Indirect marketing with thoughtful value-driven blog posts, blog entries and social media posts. You should be doing, ideally, some combination of all of these as often as you can to maximize your opportunities to get the voiceover auditions that you desire.  26:47 - Anne (Host) And always be cultivating your next client, even if you're super busy. I think that's the most important thing that I've learned over the many years that I've been in the business here is always be cultivating your next client, because your clients, even if you've had them for years and years and years, they're never guaranteed. And the best in the business will say the same. So good conversation, Tom. I think we could talk about marketing in 500 more episodes.  27:10 But I think this is a great start guys to understand that it is a necessary evil and it's not scary. It's really not scary. You need to embrace the challenge that is marketing and, again, I like to look at everything as a challenge. That's what gives me joy in my business and also one of the reasons why I did create the VL Boss Blast was because I didn't have a ton of time to do the indirect marketing, although I do that a lot too. So everybody needs a balanced breakfast of both indirect and direct marketing. And, tom, thank you again for always being such a golden nugget of wisdom in my podcast.  27:42 - Tom (Guest) Thank you, I love it.  27:44 - Anne (Host) I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Yes, you too can be a boss, a real boss and find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next time. Bye.  27:59 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes, get ready for an electrifying conversation with a true entertainment icon. In this episode of the VO Boss Podcast, Anne Ganguzza is joined by the legendary Rolonda Watts, an Emmy-winning, talk show host, actress, and award-winning voice actor. Rolonda's career is a masterclass in professional reinvention. From her groundbreaking syndicated talk show, The Rolonda Show, to her powerful voice acting work on Professor Wiseman in Curious George and her on-screen roles in Mind Your Business and Survival of the Thickest, she embodies the art of pivoting with purpose. The hosts discuss how her journey from journalism to entertainment shaped her, why listening is the most important tool for any communicator, and the life philosophies that have guided her to become a true BOSS.   00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey, bosses, Anne Ganguzza, you know your journey in voiceover is not just about landing gigs. It's about growing both personally and professionally. At Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions, I focus on coaching and demo production that nurtures your voice and your confidence. Let's grow together. Visit Anneganguzza.com to find out more. 00:48 Visit anganguza, hey. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'mGanguzzayour host, Anne Ganguza, and I have something amazing for you 00:53 , bosses, today.  00:55 Today's guest is a one-woman entertainmentRolondaempire. She's done it all award-winning journalistRolonda daytime talk show host, actor, stand-up comic, best-selling author and one of the most recognizable voices in voiceover. You may have heard her as Professor Wiseman on Curious GeorgeRolonda in the Proud FamilyRolonda kung Fu Panda and now Invincible Fight Girl. She's also the annoucer and promo voice of the Sherry Show, where Sherry Shepard calls her a daytime talk show legend, which I happen to agree. Rolanda Watts is currently lighting up the screen on Bounce TV's hit comedy Mind your Business which I always get to see all the shorts on the Facebook feed, by the way where she plays Lucille, the sharp, sassy family matriarch that keeps it real with tough love and somehow I feel like that just echoes your character to a T. And she I feel like that just echoes your character to a T, and she's also appearing in the upcoming season of Netflix's Survival ofRolondathe Thickest, and was recently inducted into the prestigious Silver Circle by the National Academy of Television Arts and Sciences at the 2024 Emmys, recognizing her lifetime of groundbreaking work in television.  02:04 Bosses, please welcome the incomparable Rolanda Watts, thank you. Thank you, rolanda. I have to tell you, you know I'm a big fan. I mean, I've said this to you before, but, bosses, I am the biggest fan of Rolanda. I actually know Rolanda from watching her on daytime talk TV, and that was a while ago. I want to say that daytime talk shows had just kind of come into like being, and you're one of the first that I watched and I just I just you, your personality, just everything about you was just amazing. It's just magnetic, and so I am so excited to be able to interview you, a talk show host. So I was like, oh man, how am I going to prepare to talk to you? But you are just so gracious and wonderful, and so that kind of gave me a little bit of of hope that I wouldn't completely flub it up today, rolanda.  03:05 - Rolonda (Guest) I don't think you would do that, Anne.  03:08 - Anne (Host) My goodness. So for the bosses, who you know don't really know your story and how you started off, I mean, my gosh, you're a media empire, so I don't even like we could have like five days worth of interviews with you, but it all started as broadcast journalism correct interviews with you, but it all started as broadcast journalism correct?  03:28 - Rolonda (Guest) Yes, Tell us about that. Well, I grew up in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, and I, you know, I went to well, it's a long story about how I became an actor, but it all started with being 12 years old and going to Broadway with my family and seeing Guys and Doll and I was just like, oh my God, I love the stage and that's what I Anne do. So I went to Spelman and majored in theater arts and then there weren't a lot of roles when I got out of college. There just wasn't a track for folks who looked like me in the acting world, and so I fell in love with journalism, went to Columbia's Graduate School of Journalism and I was a news reporter and investigative anchor woman and producer for many years for New York WABC, WNBC Inside.  04:16 - Anne (Host) Edition, and that's impressive. And all of a sudden. Well, yeah, I was an investigative journalist. I mean you just said it like it came so easy. But I Anne imagine at the time. I mean you must have had to really work to get yourself in that space.  04:33 - Rolonda (Guest) Well, it was a crazy time because it was the 1980s. There weren't a lot of women in investigative news reporting, not in New York City, and so it was a groundbreaking time for women and and there was so much in the news, especially in New York, it was the big gang wars, the mob wars. You know, gotti hadn't even come into into play yet, so it was murder and mayhem. I was covering, wow and yeah, an inside edition. I was more murder and mayhem.  05:04 - Anne (Host) I remember that.  05:06 - Rolonda (Guest) Yeah. And then a man by the name of Roger King, who in heaven remains the number one selling as human being in television, asked me if I would like to do my very own syndicated talk show. So for four years I did the Rolanda show and then, when that was over let's loop back to the 12 year old who wore the subway token around her neck as a good luck charm. I said I'm not going to be on a porch when I'm 80 years old, going I could have, would have, should have. I am going to take my chances and go for my lifelong dream and make that 12 year old inside of me happy.  05:41 And I took off and went to Hollywood and that's where I became an actor and a writer and a producer and had my own production company and stumbled into voice acting and all of these things were part of what so many people call me the reinventionist. But I have had to reinvent my life for so many reasons and so many times. But I believe that isRolondamany different things that I've done and it's all around one thing and that's what we do as voice actors Good storytelling.  06:13 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. And it's so interesting because before I had really come into like knowing you again, after you know, watching your talk show, and then knowing you as in voiceover yeah, the Anne and promo voice of the Sherry show, how interesting. Like you started to talk show, you're like a legend and talk show in my, in my brain. I'm like Rolanda, that's so awesome, like you. And now you kind of came full circle back to it a little bit Right, being the Anne and the promo voice.  06:46 And I was watching a clip of you the other day and Sherry was saying something. She was going on. She was gushing about you, which I get that. She was gushing about you and it was so interesting. She was giving you this credit about talking about your talk show and how wonderful you were and you turned it right. The conversation went right back to her about how wonderful she was and I was just blown away by how gracious that was and I just thought, well, no wonder. Well, no wonder you made such a great talk show host, such a great communicator, such a great actor and stand-up comedian and everything, because you just have this wonderful way of connecting with people.  07:29 - Rolonda (Guest) Well, you're awfully sweet, Anne. I'm going to receive all of that, but I thank you for that. You know it's, it's it. I, you know I was. I get blown away too, because Sherry does not hold back about what. What do the folks say? Giving me my flowers? And it's nice to receive them when you can smell them. You know, you know, know, it's really interesting because we did pave the way for sherry and and kelly and and drew and tamron all of them and I also know the hard work that those ladies are doing.  08:04 This job called talk is not easy. The politics that go on, the struggles day to day, the whole idea that the show is bigger than you as a human. It's very trying and you're out there by yourself. So I of course give her her flowers back because you can hand over the baton, but if the person can't run with it it really doesn't count. So to be able to see that continuum is a beautiful, beautiful thing.  08:29 And you know what's really funny is that Sherry's executive producer, who you see on the show all the time, John Murray. John was a college student when he first came to see my show and that's when he got the TV bug. He was bitten by the TV bug and so I would invite him back. In fact, one time I put him on the show so he could come and see how the producers worked and the behind the scenes working Skip to him becoming the executive producer of the Sherry show, and he said there's no other voice that we would have introduced, Sherry, and pass on the legacy than you. So it's really good. I mean, you got to be nice to kids, because they're coming up and they'll be your boss.  09:10 - Anne (Host) Right. Isn't that the truth?  09:12 - Rolonda (Guest) It is, it's like full circle.  09:13 - Anne (Host) You've, really you've done so much and you are.  09:15 I feel as though you've got. I feel like, look, I know how busy I am and I do a lot of stuff, but I feel like you, you're, you're doing it all. I mean you're, you're in that sitcom and I see, I'm thankful. I see the clips that you're posting on Facebook and it's so funny how the Rolanda that I know right, that I had a conversation with at VO Atlanta, I mean I feel like it is just so true to your character. Tell us a little bit about that role. I feel like you're just having the best time doing it.  09:44 - Rolonda (Guest) Oh my God, Lucille Williams, or Lucille is just one of the most wonderful characters. I mean, she's just great. And this coming weekend she's going to break off into her cougarlicious life, I know, oh wow.  10:05 She and her besties. They call themselves the silver sneakers. The nieces have convinced them that they need to give up the old guys, who just need a nurse and a purse, and go and get some of the young guys to go get some cool you know, be cougars and so we see how that works. But it's very, you know, it's fun to play her. She's sassy, she's the matriarch of the family, but at the same time we're writing storylines that give her a full bodied woman-ness. At this certain age, absolutely, absolutely.  10:42 - Anne (Host) I love that.  10:43 - Rolonda (Guest) But Mind your Business is a wonderful sitcom. It's one of those wonderful family sitcoms. It's produced by Bentley Evans, who did Jamie Foxx and Martin, so you're going to get that kind of zany funniness, but it's. But my character is lost her business almost during covid and calls on her family to come in and help save the business. And so she moves in with the family to save some money and all hell breaks loose. They need more of a referee than they do business partners. Now.  11:14 - Anne (Host) I love it. Now, if I'm correct, you're on season two, is that correct?  11:20 - Rolonda (Guest) We're on season two. That's right.  11:22 - Anne (Host) That's right Will there be more seasons. We certainly hope so. I hope so too.  11:25 - Rolonda (Guest) Listen, we're depending on you to watch and binge and love it. We're on Bounce TV or the Brown Sugar app and you Love it.  11:32 - Anne (Host) We're on Bounce TV or the Brown Sugar app and you can go look up where you can watch it. Yeah, I love that. Well, ok, so All right, we have to. Now we have to come to the voiceover aspect of things. So you actually have been doing voiceover since you came to LA, right?  11:46 - Rolonda (Guest) And well, you know what's so crazy, Anne, is that I was doing voiceover work, promos and Anne and voiceovers, and I didn't even know I was a voice actor, because I was doing all of that stuff for my show. I mean, had I known I was a voice actor at that time, I would have had a very different contract, trust me. But but it let meRolonda you know. But, just being a news reporter for so many years in New York City and on Inside Edition across the nation, people just knew my voice. And when, when I moved to LA and gave up the whole news and talk business to come out here and be an actor and a producer, nine months into the game the writers went on strike and instead of hosting an internationally syndicated talk show, I was on the picket line serving pizza to the striking writers.  12:39 And I was like what am I going to do? And I had to eat, I had to pay my rent, I mean what, what? And it was like I'm not going back to news, so what am I going to do? And I remembered that I used to call 411 back when you used to get information and the operator even knew my voice. They would go is this Rolanda. And so I said well this, I know I've got a voice, I'll go do voice acting. And I could not catch a cold because I didn't understand what the business was about. I had a voice and I had a microphone, but I had no idea what voice acting was about. I had a voice and I had a microphone, but I had no idea what voice acting was about.  13:14 So I went over to Calumson and Calumson over there in Burbank and I took a class and that thing saved my life because those that was the one of the that was the well, it was one of the longest strikes in Hollywood nine months and by that time I had created a whole new career and the voice actors weren't on strike. So I said this is a great backup for my physical acting and there are times and when my voice works more than my physical acting and now that I'm becoming a woman of a certain age those roles aren't coming in as quickly. But, honey, I can play a hot 30 year old.  13:53 - Anne (Host) Well, my voice. I love that you're using the woman of a certain age because, as a woman of a certain age, as well, what are you?  14:02 - Rolonda (Guest) going to do.  14:04 - Anne (Host) Exactly. I mean, I say use it Right, I mean absolutely. And so let's talk just for a brief moment about what. So acting and voice acting, same, different, what? What would you say are the key differences? Because you said, oh, I had to go to Kalmanson and Kalmanson, right.  14:22 - Rolonda (Guest) So there are some things, yeah, oh, absolutely.  14:25 - Anne (Host) Bosses need to know that are different and I absolutely always tell people yes, you should, you should, you know, take acting classes. But also there are some, some differences.  14:35 - Rolonda (Guest) Yeah, I find that there there's. It's just a different set of muscles, I think that's what you would say. One is just strictly your imagination and I think, well, for me, one helps the other. Well, for instance, the character I play we talked about Lucille, lucille talks like this she's got a little quiver in her voice and she just real high pitch, like that. So some of those tricks that we learn in terms of texture and pitch and pacing and all of that that we do as we imagine our characters, I do the same thing when I see the character on the page and I say how does that voice, what? What is it about her voice that's going to make her stand out. And they know that's Lucille, that's part of her, because she doesn't have cause. That character doesn't have this voice, not my voice. So I think that that that helps me find my characters In fact.  15:29 In fact I did a play and I had I did three plays at one time. Craziest thing in the world never been done Did three plays at one time, playing 10 different characters, from a nine-year-old girl to a 76-year-old grandmother, and all of those are different voices. You know, one was a journalist, one was a, you know, grandmother one, a, a little girl who grew up in mississippi. I mean, those are just such different voices and I also have bring my physical things, like when I'm thinking of a character in my voice, acting. I think what would they wear?  16:04 Shakespeare said, the clothes make the man and the woman too. Are they wearing a cape that they sold over there, you know? Are they carrying a sword? Does she have really tight bobs in her hair? I mean, does she have a mustache? So there are all kinds of things that I think. If I'm in my prop room or my wardrobe room and it's just my imagination, what can I do to help bring those things to light? Just the way, when they put the wig on and the clothes and the heels on for stage or screen, you could become that character. You do the same in your imagination, yeah.  16:37 - Anne (Host) I love that, I love that parallel.  16:40 That makes so much sense, actually, and it's interesting. So, for voice actors, who have not necessarily acted, what sort of tips would you have to for them to be better actors? Let's say, because it's funny, I do a lot of the stuff that people don't think you need to act for in terms of voiceover, like corporate narration or e-learning, and they think that you don't need to act. But in reality you're always a character, and so when I'll say to my students, envision that scene, it's just to them they're like what, why? Why do I need to do that? Why don't I just read the words? You know why?  17:20 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) I hear it. Yeah, exactly, you know why?  17:22 - Rolonda (Guest) Because we're not looking for readers, we're looking for actors, and I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that folks make who don't become a VO boss is because they don't understand what this industry is about. It's really not even about your voice. It's not about I mean, everybody has a beautiful, unique voice, because there are no two voices alike but it's the acting that's going to make you so different. It's those subliminal things under those lines. Sometimes you have a whole commercial that tells a whole life story in four lines and they, they fought over those lines. Attorneys, 50 people made all those lines. So they mean something. What is the story we're telling here? Right, and who am I in this story and who am I talking to? You know all of those questions. Where am I? Why am I even this story and who am I talking to? You know all of those questions. Where am I? Why am I even talking about this toilet paper? You know, and I'm a bear.  18:21 Why am I. Even I'm a mama bear. I mean why? You know why am I, and I'm not going to act like a bear, but I'm going to act like a mom who's concerned about her kids not wiping themselves. And that's just real stuff. So how do you tap into the authenticity? How do you make it human? Because what our job is is to connect with another human being. That's something that folks down there on Madison Avenue, the big advertisers, can't do in their suits, so they depend on us as actors, to be human, to be just plain old ourselves and human. No bravado, as we're hearing so much in our copy and in our instruction and directions as actors. Authenticity, throw it away, just give it to me. No salesy, no Anne, and I got to tell you that's the hardest thing in the world to do. Even for us seasoned actors, it's sometimes hard to shake off the the, the formality and just get real with it. You know and feel comfortable and confident with that.  19:21 - Anne (Host) Can I ask you to repeat that, can you that you said, you said what you said. It was hard, it's hard, it is hard, right. It is so hard Like I love it because you create that scene Right. It is so hard, like I love it because you create that scene Right In which those words make sense, right.  19:36 And tell a story and sometimes those words are really we don't know. We don't know that, Like I, have some people that are almost indignant that they don't have a storyboard or they don't. They don't understand the words. So therefore, if they don't, they're just kind of well, let's just say them then.  19:58 - Rolonda (Guest) Right In a melody that I think they want to hear. Rolonda, that's great, then they'll have a melody that they just heard, but they won't have the commercial.  20:03 - Anne (Host) I love it, so yes, so you said it's hard, rolanda says it's hard, it is.  20:09 - Rolonda (Guest) I go on record as saying the hardest thing I've ever had to do whether it was talk, tv or vocal or physical acting is being myself. Now in life, I have no problem beingRolondaauthentically Rolanda. What you see is Rolonda you get. But it's something that happens when we pick up that script and that microphone is in front of us and, all of a sudden, things start changing and happening. We're just not ourselves. I don't sound like myself. I don't like toRolondahear my voice. It takes, it's really acting. When you hear people who sound like how did they get that job? They don't even sound like a voice actor. It's because they are turning themselves Rolonda a virtual pretzel justRolondato sound like that, to sound so normal.  20:58 I remember when I first started doing my talk show um, the, the demand of being a, an actor I mean not an actor, but a talk show host with a talk show called rolanda was that you had to be Rolanda. You couldn't be the news reporter anymore. That was crucial to the success, and so it was very hard to even do it then, and I can remember my bosses and my partners calling going get that news reporter out of there, bring back Rolanda. And I said but I've got this crazy laugh and a raspy voice and I, you know, I'm a Southern accent and that's everything that makes my brand. I mean, it's crazy, but that's Rolanda. When you say Rolanda, that's what you hear. So whatever that is about you, whatever that quirky, crazy thing that you think is your fault, that's going to be your greatest asset. You know, when I was a little kid, they called me froggy and I always played all the guys in all my all girls school plays and I thought that was a real fault of mine. And now I can play women, men, little boys, pirates, anything in this industry of voice acting, and there's no limitation. The only limitation is your imagination. It's not about the equipment, it's not even about your voice. It's about your brilliant imagination and what you bring to that character, not even the microphone, what you bring to that character that nobody else thought about. That made that animator go. Oh, I can't wait to draw this character, um, and to make the casting director's job easy. They want you to win, they want you to get this job, so give it to them, show them your special sauce.  22:43 But I think it takes real practice, practice, practice. Like carnegie hall, they say. You just don't walk up into carnegie hall and start playing the violin. No, you got to learn how the instrument works. You got to learn how to maintain it, take care of it, how to make love to that instrument so it delivers that God given art and craft that you've put into it. You've got to do the work. And a lot of people think, well, I can just go pick this up and read. And the sad thing is, and they don't take classes and they have no idea what they're doing wrong. The worst thing that can happen is you go years and years and years building on the wrong stuff because you never took the time to learn the right stuff. You don't know what you don't know. Yeah, that's so.  23:29 - Anne (Host) I'm.  23:29 - Rolonda (Guest) I'm real big on training and classes so that you get the education and the acting experience and you understand how to break down scripts, you understand the vocabulary of this industry and how to network and and and use your resources that are right there at your fingertips.  23:46 - Anne (Host) Well, I think I think you're probably very much a VO Boss on using those resources and networking throughout your whole career. That's absolutely something that I feel that you've you've done so successfully. What would you say is probably the most important thing tip that you could give to to ensure success in this industry? Because it's a evolving industry and, yes, being the the queen of reinvention, right, you've had to reinvent yourself, and reinvent yourself not only in, you know, voiceover, but in, like all the media and how it's evolved over the years. So what would be your, your best tip to ensure success? Don't quit there. You go.  24:26 - Rolonda (Guest) I like that. The only people who don't succeed in voice acting are people who quit. I like that. You know, even the greatest ones. And you know, when we're at the VO Atlanta conference and we're with the greats I mean we're with Bob, who's Porky the pig, and we're with Joe, who's every network's Anne and when you hear these, these, these major vo stars and pros say, man, I do 50 to 100 auditions and may not nab the job a lot of us went whoa.  24:59 - Anne (Host) thank god, it's just not us, because yeah, I mean I can show you a stack in my head. I'm like oh, thank god, because, yeah, I, I just did a ton, I know, yeah, and look, listen I hear some auditions from this month okay yeah, am, I, am, I am I booking every one of them?  25:16 - Rolonda (Guest) no, but that's but. But you have to change your mindset. Every time I show up that microphone and I'm doing an audition, I'm not going up there. Well, I'm not going to get the job anyway. If you've got a bad attitude like that, it's time for you to jump into a classroom and just realign yourself, because this is a long game. And let me tell you what's going to happen when you get great you nab that job, you go and do that commercial. One hour it's gone and you're right back to auditioning again. So don't put all of your emphasis on just the job, but the but, the practice, the maintenance of it. Uh, going to conferences like the VO Atlanta conference, vo Dallas conference, sosa look up these places. That's a good place to hobnob. This is a very solo business. You're a solopreneur, you're by yourself, you, your microphone, your computer and your imagination. That's it. So get out and join memberships. Like Anne. You can come and take my class, the voice acting masterclass with Rolanda. In fact, I'm going to offer your listeners a very special deal if they're interested.  26:29 But that's another way that we build community and you learn what's the cutting edge. Right now we're dealing with AI. What does that mean? Staying on the cutting edge of things that are going to affect your career and really take it as a business. This is not just a hobby. Understand how your taxes work, understand the legalities and understand the questions to ask when you're signing a contract. Now just don't run out there all willy-nilly and not ask the right questions or your voice will be used forever and you not get paid. You know the video game people just had a strike and got some. Where are we moving forward in the business?  27:10 Be able to talk intelligently about the business. So when you're out there meeting people, they know, oh okay, this is somebody really serious. This isn't just somebody who just got a microphone on amazon and call themselves a voice actor, because there's a lot of that. But I say that um, really, just don't quit and understand that every time you show up in front of that microphone, it's another opportunity to show you a special sauce. And if the casting director doesn't get you into this particular job and that's not their decision, it's the producer's or whoever the client is. If you don't make it then, then at least they've heard you. I get a lot of times where they're. Rolonda same client will keep calling me back and I know I've impressed them in those other auditions I've done, so I know they're looking for something for me, so I just keep showing up, doing the best that I possibly can and finding ways to make it different. Because they've heard the same audition 50 million times, sometimes 500 times.  28:12 So what can you do to make it a little different and still stay within the parameters? So there's Ganguzza kinds of tricks and strategies and all kinds of things that you can do to stand Ganguzza and also how you market yourself like anything else. This is a brand Just because Rolonda have a microphone. Anything else this is a brand. Just because you have a microphone doesn't mean you have a brand. So reallyRolonda you know, that's one of the things I tell my students all the time. Once you get the breaking down the script and understand how the microphone and the vocab let's, let's talk about marketing, social marketing. How do we brand ourselves? How can you be one name like Rolanda and people immediately know what that means, and so that's really knowing your stuff and knowing your own voice too, that's so interesting because for a while, when I first started, I had different names.  29:00 - Anne (Host) I mean I, of course I started VO Peeps, I have VO Boss, and then I have Anne Ganguza brand and I'm like I really just need to wrap it all up into the Anne Ganguza brand. So finally, people say I need an Anne Ganguza, like I need a Rolanda. I need an Anne Ganguza, and so I love that that you have that brand and you build on that brand. But, rolanda, let me ask you a question, because I saw the stack of auditions. Do you I mean still, do you get, still I say still do you get an imposter syndrome?  29:31 - Rolonda (Guest) I think I'm pretty much. I'm pretty much at this time in my life. I know who I am. You know I'm not trying to. I've done enough and achieved enough and have enough confidence in myself. I think you know what I think this is. The other thing about this industry is confidence, because you can hear I can hear through a microphone. If you're not confident and you don't even believe yourself, if you see it, I'm going to see it. If you believe it, I'm going to believe it. And that's half the battle, I mean, and that's also part of the practice of this art and this craft, is learning how to still your nerves. Breathing is so much a part, warming up is so much a part of it and it's a full body job. This is an inside job because your beautiful vocal cords are right here in this body encases it. So you got to work out, you got to stretch. You know I love this. Old morgan freeman used to say that the secret to his great voice was a good, deep yawn.  30:29 Absolutely, you know because it just loosens up everything and these 41 muscles up here need to be worked out. A lot of people just jump right up, start reading, don't even warm up their mouths.  30:40 - Anne (Host) As evidenced by your. I think it was yesterday when I saw you on Facebook and you were like all right, I'm going back to the gym.  30:48 - Rolonda (Guest) I know. I messed up.  30:50 - Anne (Host) That's it. I'm going back.  30:54 - Rolonda (Guest) I'm a hot mess but.  30:56 - Anne (Host) I think that warming up I mean it helps, it absolutely does. Just a physical walk, you know, if you go to the gym, a physical warmup does absolutely help. Now, we did talk, we touched upon the confidence issue. We did talk, we touched upon the confidence issue, and one thing that I'm really excited about is that in let's see, is it in September, on the 17th, we are going to have you doing a guest directorship for the VO bosses on improv to improve your confidence and connection. So we will be talking about how bosses can remain confident or stay confident or get confident in the booth, and I love that.  31:35 You said that we can hear. We can hear that confidence and it's really interesting because even if you're telling a story and it may not be the story that ends up being on the video or the commercial right or the commercial right If we're auditioning and we're telling a story and we're convinced of it and we are confident in it, then the people listening, the casting directors, the people that will cast us, will believe it as well, and I think that's one of the telltale signs that they say, ah, shortlist, or that's what's gonna get you the gig.  32:05 - Rolonda (Guest) I think confidence and that's really believing in yourself and being able to take chances and risks. Because you know, think about it. The casting director is hearing 500 people say the same three lines. What are you going to bring to that story that's going to make a difference? I'll give you an example.  32:23 I did an at t commercial and it was about it. It was a very little short commercial and it was about a young girl who sees her mother, who has gone out for girls night at a salsa club, and she says mom, is this you on social media? And the mother goes oh, yes, honey, we were out with Raul last night and we were just dancing and then I something happened. And I said and I just to world. That was not even a line in the script, but I just had this imagination, cuz I used to go out salsa with my girlfriends in California and, honey, when Eduardo would ask us to dance, we would to world. And that just brought that into that like an aunt Lucille, and that's what got me the gig. And it was, and it was just that little button that we say, you know, because they've heard 500 times that people say the same thing yes, I went salsaing with my girlfriend, but nobody twirled but me, nobody's.  33:26 - Anne (Host) nobody else is twirling except for Rolanda. Nobody else is.  33:29 - Rolonda (Guest) honey, that's how much fun I had, which lets you know what that video must have looked like, that the girl saw.  33:36 Absolutely, absolutely, and listen and the fact that these old ladies were even on social media, lets, you know, those boys were young. They taught him how to tick and tock and twirl, you know. So I'm having a whole imaginative thing about going out with my girlfriends and then my girlfriend, my daughter, catching me. Oh please, child, we had a good time. You know, we don't care about what people think at this age. So bringing all of those things, even my own wisdom at this age, like I don't care, honey, I'm twirling with Eduardo because the guys my age don't twirl, so I'm bringing all of that fun into it, you know.  34:11 Another example was when I did judge Joe Brown. You know I was the Anne for that show and when I was doing the audition we had to, you know, was a promo, so I would have to read the line and then listen to the sound bite and then read the line in between. And listen to the sound bite, read, read the line. And I was so big. Judge Joe was such a crazy, freaking judge show. I would say, coming up today on Judge Joe, I'm going to slit your tire and I'm going to beat Shaniqua Mary can't stand, john and then I'm going to cut your other tire and then I would be.  34:46 And then one time I just went, whoa, the next Judge, joe. Honey, they fell on the floor. I was so busy listening that I was reacting like an at home person and I was like, ooh, on the next Joe. I was so irreverent that they created a little animation called lady justice and it was a little bug and I made up this whole story that lady justice was in love with joe just like the daytime audience was gone. Joe, tell them, joe, that's judge, joe, you know because I know the daytime audience. Yeah, so that's the other question we asked who are you talking to?  35:30 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) absolutely, this wasn't the inside edition audience. This. Don't be afraid to take that risk.  35:53 - Rolonda (Guest) You can do a straight one on the next Judge. Joe and Shanique was going to go, but honey, one time let it rip and show them that you can have fun. Fun is the main key. If it's not fun, don't do it.  36:05 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I agree, I think if you can make, if you can make someone laugh, if you can, if you can, if you can bring a smile to that casting director, that person listening to you, oh my goodness. And speaking of because normally I try to make this, you know, a 30 minute podcast, but I do want to touch upon. I do want to touch upon the fact that you are a stand up comedian as well, and we had quite a conversation at VO Atlanta on that, and so I feel like that's just all embedded in your personality and I think you were always a funny person, like from maybe a young girl. But talk to us about being at stand up comedy is tough.  36:41 - Rolonda (Guest) Oh, it's really tough.  36:42 - Anne (Host) But you know something that's a rough audience.  36:45 - Rolonda (Guest) Know your audience. Who are you talking to? That's true. And you know something Lunell taught me that she said know your audience, be able to switch on a dime, whatever. But I'm going to tell you just, VO bosses, that comedy helps immensely. It helps your timing, you know. So much of comedy comes in threes. So when you're doing animation or even some fun commercials, what's that third line where the funny ABC?  37:10 - Anne (Host) read right Where's that?  37:11 - Rolonda (Guest) Where's that? Third line where the funny? Or they want an ABC. Read Right, where's that? Where's that? Where's the funny? And that also gives you the confidence and the imagination and and I tell you funny, joan Rivers told Sherri Shepherd funny girls always work, funny women, funny girls always work, funny women, funny women always work. So adding a little humor to something I think makes you stand out. But I love the craft of comedy. I'm uh got uh some comedy shows here in New York at the comedy village comedy in Harlem, and then I'm going to go out to flappers in LA this winter December for the holidays and I'm opening for Lunell and that's really exciting so yeah, I'm getting my comedy on Awesome.  37:58 - Anne (Host) Look out for me on Netflix one day. I do not doubt it. Well, rolanda, it has been such a pleasure. I wish I could talk to you for another. Well, another five episodes.  38:07 - Rolonda (Guest) Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute Speaking of Netflix. I got to do this and we're talking about Michelle Boutot's show survival of the thickest.  38:15 - Anne (Host) I'm on that one as well on Netflix. Awesome. Oh, and before and before we actually go, talk to us a little bit about September 17th improv to improve your confidence. A little bit about what we're going to, we're going to be diving into in that class.  38:30 - Rolonda (Guest) Oh, I can't wait to that class because improv is such a great way to gain your confidence, to loosen up and to have a whole bunch of fun. The beautiful thing about improv is there are certain rules that we go by, but it's just fun and it's going to help you tap into your authenticity. One good example we improv every day in life. You talk to your lover very different than you do to your boss, and don't let your best girlfriend call you in the middle of the day, and then, when your mother calls, listen to all the different voices that we have, and that's a lot of improv too. Improv also helps you listen and much of acting is about listening and I think you will surprise yourself, and part of the improv to improve your confidence is finding your own voice and discovering things through this exercise about your own experiences and about your being able to to react on a dime and have fun and laugh about it. Then when you you get those scripts, you can improv in your head.  39:32 I always do a little role play before I start, something Like if I have to play an old grandma, then I talk like an old grandma. Okay, I spin and rush them out. Our teeth don't fit too well. You got a little pain in the rats every once in a while. So you keep building these wonderful things that help you. Listen, you may not get that job, but you know you're going to doggone. Put in the effort because you've done the work. You know you. You will be so surprised, all the places that your voice will take you. And improv too. I mean there are times you're going to meet strangers, a new boss, and going to have to improv too. I mean there are times you're going to meet strangers, a new boss and going to have to improv too.  40:13 So improv is going to be a fun exercise for us. We're going to then take scripts, break down those scripts and do some acting. I'm going to teach you about Uta Hagen's nine questions. We're going to talk a little bit, a bit about Sandy Meisner's techniques, and these are just little things that you can put in your hip pocket that will help you. When you go out into the world and you're in that booth by yourself and you look to the right and the left and there's nobody there but padded walls, what are you going to do? You're not going to freak out, because we're going to learn about warmups and what we do with all this body when we're nervous and behind a microphone, because I can hear nervousness, I can hear it. So let's uh, let's work on that rolanda, did you hear my nerves?  40:57 - Anne (Host) did you hear my nerves when I was interviewing you are so not nervous listen, you need to make it easy.  41:05 - Rolonda (Guest) You've got the ganguza method, that's it there you my own method. I want to be gangouza'd. I love it.  41:12 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) I love it oh my gosh.  41:14 - Anne (Host) Thank you so so much. It has been such a pleasure talking to you today.  41:19 - Rolonda (Guest) You know how much fun we have. We get together and start talking and the sun can come up.  41:23 - Anne (Host) So true, so true.  41:23 - Rolonda (Guest) Thank you, thank you so much.  41:25 - Anne (Host) I so true, thank you. Thank you so much. I'm so excited for you, for our class in September. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses, like Rolanda and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom.  41:42 - Rolonda (Guest) I just wanted to add this that if any of your listeners wanted to check out my voice acting masterclass voice acting masterclass I'm going to offer 50% off if they use the code VO Boss 50.  42:01 - Anne (Host) Oh, I love it. Vo Boss 50.  42:01 - Rolonda (Guest) I'll put that on the show notes, guys. Thank you so much, Just for your listeners. 50% off. Vo Boss listeners go to Rolandacom.  42:08 - Anne (Host) Awesome Thanks. Bye bosses. Thank you, Rolandacom. Awesome Thanks, Bye bosses. Thank you, Rolanda. Bye.  42:13 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipdtl.   

Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble dive into a crucial topic every voice actor faces: Return on Investment (ROI). In an industry that combines both tangible equipment and intangible skills, the discussion examines which investments are truly worthwhile. From starter microphones to a full-blown studio, and from coaching to building confidence, Anne and Danielle offer a fresh perspective on how to measure the success of your financial decisions. They emphasize that in a creative industry, ROI is not always about money—it's also about personal growth, confidence, and building a sustainable business.   00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, we now have events, so don't miss out. Our VIP membership gives you exclusive discounts to events and access to workshops that are sure to boost your voiceover career. Find out more at voboss.com.  00:16 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:35 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the Boss Money Talks series with my good friend, Danielle Famble. Hey, Danielle, hey, how are you? I'm good, how are you? I'm good, Danielle. I just got an email from Amazon, oh, and the subject said you might like this, or we found something you might like, which I think is such a marketing tactic. It is a good opening line. Works on me, yeah for sure.  01:08 - Danielle (Guest) It works on me. You definitely opened the email, didn't you?  01:11 - Anne (Host) Yeah, because it's based on my previous you know, either browsing or my previous purchases, and so those of you that have ever perused the VioBoss website know that I have a Studio Gear page where I put all the recommendations for Studio Gear, and so I was updating that page and, of course, everything that they sent to me was Studio Gear related, and I was like, oh, look at that shiny new interface, look at that shiny new pair of headphones. Yeah, you know, new colors, new colors. Yeah, it leads me to think about Danielle what Vio expenses are actually worth the ROI? I mean, that is something that I think every voice actor needs to consider when they're spending money and investing in their business. So which purchases are actually worth it?  01:58 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, and there are lots of little things that you can invest in in your business and some of them are tangible, like you're talking about the headphones or the interface, and then some of them are intangible, like when you're investing in your education or you're investing in yourself with coaching. So I think that that's such a personal question and it also will change as you progress in your VO boss journey. Agreed, the things that are great returns on investment as you progress in your VO boss journey? Agreed, the things that are great returns on investment when you're earlier on in your career? You may not invest in those again when you're 10, 15, 20, 30 plus years in the game. Right, yeah, that's a fun little question.  02:38 - Anne (Host) I mean we could start with the obvious. The obvious would be most people think, well, okay, I want to be a voice actor, so what do I need? I need a microphone. So there are microphones and there I think microphones are an investment that if you're just starting out and you're not sure if this is really the thing that you want to do or you're going to, you know this is a long term investment for you. Maybe just a starter microphone works. That's a few hundred dollars and I think that that would be worth an investment to just get your feet wet, get you know, dip your toes in the water and find out if this is a career choice that you are going to stick with.  03:12 But if you kind of know that in your heart and you've done enough research and maybe you've gone ahead and done some coaching and you're fairly certain, I would say it's absolutely worth your investment to invest in a good microphone. I mean because I think microphones are one thing. We may use them every single day, right, but we're not like handling them too much. We're not, like you know, dropping them on the ground. God forbid, hopefully not. You're. A good microphone is going to last for years and years, like my 416 and my TLM 103, I have had them for already, like going on 15 years, like, literally there's no signs of slowing down. However, at one point they will, but I've certainly made back the money that I've invested in them, absolutely. What are your?  03:56 - Danielle (Guest) thoughts. I agree, I'm kind of more of the grow as you go kind of mentality. So when I started I was using the Synco Mic D1, I think, or something like that D2. And it was billed as the knockoff 416. And then when I actually had the 416, I was able to listen to them side by side. And it is not, but it worked out for the time being. It was what I could afford at the time and then the additional money or the money that I had that I could have spent on the 416 at the time, I put that money into coaching. I put that money into getting a good demo. I put that money into investing in sort of the soft skills needed to win and do well in this business and really in business in general.  04:45 So I think that the ROI, again, like you, can sort of start with what is the starter, and maybe the starter is a certain dollar amount and I don't think there is a dollar amount, but it's the dollar amount that is comfortable for you. That maybe isn't the 416 or the TLM 103, something like that and then you use some of that money to then invest in the soft skills and invest in your coaching, invest in your website or things like that.  05:16 - Anne (Host) I started off with an AT2020 and I graduated to a Rode MT1A, which is not necessarily what I would recommend today, but those were only a few hundred dollars, and I still remember when I actually got my very first like major investment in a mic was a good 10 years after I had. I had been because I made good money with that Rode for at least six, seven years, and then and it just didn't occur to me because I had a great studio at the time, right, and I didn't hear a need or nobody Everybody said, oh my God, you sound great, and so I didn't feel a need that I had to go experiment with microphones. Now, some people are gearheads. You know we've all got our thing, kind of like me investing in lipsticks or in clothing. You know they have to try it all Totally.  06:08 I remember, though, when I did invest in my TLM 103, I actually heard the difference, but I could not have been able to tell the difference. Probably, I think, when you're first getting into the industry, it takes a minute for you to get an ear. Develop your ear For your sound, for your microphone yeah, we don't talk enough about that and maybe that's fodder for another. You know another episode. But developing your ear in voiceover for performance and for good equipment, it takes time I mean years and it took experimentation. It took, you know, trying, and I think it took me, after years of being in the industry, of hearing the difference with a good quality pair of headphones, with a good quality mic in a good quality studio, and so all of those were were back the ROI.  06:55 - Danielle (Guest) That also increases as well. You know things like investing in your booth, investing in where you're going to record. I started recording in my closet and like adding extra pillows, and I was taking pillow cases off of, like my bed, from the couch cushions. I was taking anything that was soft and just bringing that into the closet with me to record and I, you know I did quite a bit of work that way for a good amount of time and then, you know, time progressed and I got a different booth and then I upgraded to the booth that I'm in currently. So if you, I think, if you can grow as you go, you might be getting more of an ROI because you're developing that, your ear, you're developing your business sense, your business savvy, you're understanding, you know what you bring to the microphone, what you bring to the business, and all of that is how you increase that ROI for sure.  07:53 - Anne (Host) You know, and we should talk about ROI Is ROI always positive financially based?  07:58 - Danielle (Guest) No, I don't think so. No right, I think it can definitely be the intangibles as well. It can be exactly how comfortable you feel attacking commercial copy. It can be how quickly you're able to adjust from in a session when you're given differing opinions on how you should, you know, read a line or something like that. It's your ability to speak up for yourself and ask for what you want and negotiate all of those things.  08:22 - Anne (Host) That's such a good point of this topic because ROI, especially in our industry, when our voices I mean our voices are so much more than just physical voices for our product, it has everything to do with who we are, what got us here, our life journey and confidence right. So if a new microphone can make you feel more confident, can make your performance better, that's going to make your product better. So ROI, I think in our type of industry, when it's a creative industry, really can be almost as much intangible as it is tangible.  09:00 - Danielle (Guest) It's what you're pouring into the product that you're offering, which is tangible. It's what you're pouring into the product that you're offering which is yourself. It's what you're pouring into your physical instrument. It's what you're pouring into your heart. It's what you're pouring into. I love the confidence aspect, because that is a huge intangible.  09:17 that is incredibly important, oh my gosh yes, helps you feel good in your booth, in your read, it's what gives you the confidence to go to conferences and put yourself out there, reach out to new agents. Yeah, like that is the product. The voice is the conduit to it, but you, the human being, are the product and so, whenever you can pour into yourself and make sure that you are operating at your best and highest vibration, you're going to get that ROI back because you're putting out a one-of-one, a very unique commodity, absolutely.  09:52 - Anne (Host) You know, not everyone can just get Spoken from the girl who loves to talk about money. I love that, right. I love that. It's just as important, right, I think, for the ROI to be intangible as it is to be tangible. Now, if we talk about the tangible aspects of it, how do you measure? How do you measure the ROI? How do you look at the hard-cold numbers for an investment in a microphone? I mean, are you looking at it on a monthly basis? Are you like, okay, I invested you know a thousand dollars in this microphone and how have I made it back? Right, Are you looking at the jobs you booked? Are you looking at, you know, an agent you just got? And again, how do you track that? Really, in cold, hard numbers? Sometimes you can't Right.  10:36 - Danielle (Guest) Sometimes you can't, but some things you know, for example, like like a microphone or an interface. You know, I look at things pretty clearly in terms of can I afford it or not? That's sort of the start. And if I cannot afford it right now, how long will it take me to be able to afford it? Should I utilize other tools? Should I use debt? Should I put it on a credit card? But I know that I've got some invoices that are going to be paid by the end of the month and so I can pay for it. Can I afford this thing? And then I look at is this thing, let's say a microphone, is it replacing something that I've already used that needs to be replaced? Do I really need it? Or if I'm a gearhead and I just like it, that's fine too. But know that you know before you just acquire new things and then, do I know how to use it? Yeah, that's sort of the intangible.  11:25 - Anne (Host) That's a good. That's a good, that's a good point Can.  11:27 - Danielle (Guest) I use it, you know, with, with. Can I use it how it needs to be used, or do I need to invest in education to learn how?  11:35 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) to use it.  11:35 - Danielle (Guest) For example, I got a new interface and I wanted to make sure I knew how to use it. Can I afford it? Yes, I bought it, great. But then I didn't really know how to use it. So then I invested in coaching with an audio engineer who explained what it was to me and how I could use it. And so then the ROI actually made sense, because when someone said, hey, can you turn up your gain or turn off that 4K button, or we don don't really. We need this, this and this. Can you tell us what your interface is Like? I could speak to it with confidence, because I had put in the time and energy to, yes, buy it, but then learn how to use it. And for me, then, that's how I look at the ROI.  12:15 - Anne (Host) Sure, well, you know, I get a lot of students because obviously I'm a coach and I get a lot of students because obviously I'm a coach and I get a lot of students who will say, well, I want to be able to work in the industry and then be able to pay for my demo or my coaching, my additional coaching. And so that's a tough one, because that's like what came first, the chicken or the egg, because in reality you kind of have to figure out, you kind of have to make an investment in the coaching aspect of things and, of course, the demo too, because I'm a big believer that demos are what helps market that voice, so that you can get the jobs, so you can then reinvest it in your business. And so what are your thoughts about the intangible investments like, well, investing yourself with coaching and with, let's say, demos.  12:57 - Danielle (Guest) I think those are probably, as you're starting out, that's probably going to be what's going to get you the highest ROI. Are those intangibles. It's the coaching, it's the demos, it's the website, it's the marketing materials, it's knowing how to market yourself, it's knowing what genres you want to work in and that you're good at and that it's fun for you that you're finding the joy, that it's fun for you that you're finding the joy. So those things. I think that's really where I would spend more of my energy and my money trying to really invest in those things. But to your point, you need one to beget the other. The work begets work, but you've got to have something to show who you are, what you do and how well you do that thing Exactly.  13:42 So sometimes that may need to be going into a little bit of debt so that you can purchase that, or it is utilizing your nine to five to fund your five to nine. It's having to sort of figure out what is it that I'm trying to get let's say it's a demo or a coaching package, for example and how much is that going to cost me? How long will it take me to save up for it? Or what do I need to do to make that happen, because then, after a certain period of time, I usually say give yourself like six months to a year to try and get that money back. Yeah, yeah, it's a long enough time, if not longer sometimes.  14:22 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and maybe even longer. I think in the beginning sometimes it could take longer because, you know, I remember telling people my first year I made a decision to go full time when I decided to move across the country and I thought for the first couple of months I would look for a job in education. Because I came from education and I was like, so I had worked so hard in my other job, I took a few months off. Well, I actually couldn't have afforded at the time the few months off, because that was that was like the crash of 2008. And so, in reality, yeah, I basically was not successful in getting in the door really for my, my full time job, just because it was a new area and you know I was specializing in technology and so there were lots of factors in that. And so I just decided to pour all of my energy into going full-time in VO and, as hard of a worker as I am, I still, the first year maybe made $1,200. It was really something that I was learning lots of things. I mean, it was a new area. I was trying to get to know new people, new local studios and trying to figure out marketing, because now I was doing it full time and so there was a lot of investment that I made in my own education and in improving my voiceover, improving my getting new demos and that sort of thing. So it did put a lot of money out for that initial investment.  15:49 And so sometimes it can take a little bit of time to see the return on investment and again, like we were talking about before, sometimes you don't recognize it because in this business you kind of have to develop an ear for a lot of things. You have to develop an ear for your studio sound. You have to develop an ear for a microphone Does it fit you? You have to develop an ear for, you know, for your auditioning really, and that's kind of a soft skill right that incorporates coaching and incorporates just doing it and practicing it. So those are so difficult in the beginning, I think, to justify a return on investment. And I think if you're just getting involved in this business you have to kind of expect those things to take more time than you would like them to Absolutely and also know what not to do.  16:37 - Danielle (Guest) So I always try to look at it as what am I doing to get to my very first dollar and anything outside of that Maybe I don't need to be focusing my money on it because I'm not going to get that return on investment as quickly.  16:50 - Anne (Host) I like that.  16:50 - Danielle (Guest) So it may be those things to get to your first dollar are the coaching.  16:55 It's your, it's your marketing materials, it's your demos, it's your learning how to utilize your, your, your DAW or your interface, like it's your demos, it's your learning how to utilize your DAW or your interface, like it's learning about those things. But maybe it's not. Maybe it's not getting like the super fancy website, maybe it's not business cards, maybe it's not. You know all kinds of other things that seem like oh, this is what I should do for the business purposes, a CRM, you know, like just everything that you do for business. It may not be what you need to be doing now, but what can get you to your first dollar the quickest? Because that's a proof of concept that it's working. And if you can get to one dollar, you can get to two. Then you can get to four, six, eight, whatever. So I would, I would look at it like that of where? Where am I putting my energy, my effort?  17:39 - Anne (Host) I know it's probably going to take a bit of time, but I'm driving towards getting to my first dollar and that's how you'll get the snowball going of the ROI and they hang it up like when they open their business, like I don't know if people do that anymore, but in reality, like that becomes like such an important concept, like what are you doing to make your first dollar? And you're right, sometimes it doesn't happen immediately and I think one thing that people just have to understand is that it does sometimes take time, right, but once you make the first dollar, as you said, then comes the second dollar, then comes the third dollar, and I notice it happens over and over in this business where it's like success begets success.  18:29 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, it does.  18:30 - Anne (Host) And so once you start booking jobs, right outside of an occasional lull right, which happens like seasonally in this industry, and that's something else that you have to get used to Then there's always the capability and the confidence to get to dollar number two and then to get to dollar number three and typically it happens more frequently and then comes the confidence, which I don't think there's a price on that, to be quite honest, because once you have confidence in yourself, in your product and in your business, I don't think there's anything stopping you from being successful, for sure, totally. Let's talk about other things. That, because you mentioned a website and I don't want to let that go, because I think that a website investment is a whole lot more important than some people think, because, again, I'm going old school, right, when people used to actually make their first dollar and then frame it and hang it up in the place of their business. Well, the place of our business now is our studio, and so we really need to be thinking about where you know we're going to celebrate those wins, right, and we want to think about how are we opening our storefront right, where is that storefront? Because it's not physical, it's online, and so that impression that storefront is where people go to buy things.  19:47 I mean, I buy things online every day and I think we all do that. Storefront is important and I think that that is a worthy investment. Now, do you need to make that right away, before you have a demo or before you have right any samples to put up there or even a thought as to what your brand is about? You can always start creating a website on the back burner of things, because as you grow, it develops kind of like your studio, right? You evolve, you change, you grow. I think your website is one of those things. Your storefront grows with you.  20:19 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, absolutely. I think it's important to have you know you, to place your digital shingle up so that people can find you, because in this day and age, so many people are finding you on your website or digital presence in some way, and then they're coming to speak with you via email. So they need to know how to reach you. So I do think that's important, but some things do. The great thing about a website is that it can change and evolve and sort of that's the point. Can change and evolve, and sort of that's the point. So you start with what you have, and if what you have is just this is my name, this is my picture, this is what I sound like and this is how you can reach me, those basic things are all. That's what a website should entail, anything else showing what you do.  21:04 - Anne (Host) A way to purchase.  21:05 - Danielle (Guest) A way to purchase a product, a way to purchase a product that is really like. It's the gateway to how to get to purchase the product of my voiceover services, me as a person, and how we can work together me, you, the client. But other than that, I don't think that it serves you to wait to put that digital shingle up until you're ready, because there's time that could go to making your first dollar, absolutely Even if that digital shingle is not the way that other people's digital shingles look. But I would say, put the website up and get that out there as quickly as possible. That has the basic information about how to find you, how to purchase your product that you're selling, how to pay you, how to pay you Exactly you have to be able to get pounds so that you're selling how to pay you, how to pay you Exactly Like.  21:54 - Anne (Host) You have to be able to get pounds so that people can hire you and then pay you, and that, I think, is so, so important.  22:00 - Danielle (Guest) And those things will grow and evolve as time goes on. But you don't need to wait until all of these things are in place and perfect to put it out there so that people you know this is the get to your first dollar. It's got to be scrappy.  22:15 - Anne (Host) I agree with you. Now, what about the other things? Like OK, so you've, how are you going to make your first dollar? So then the next biggest question, or I would say one of the biggest questions I always get, is like so how do I get work? How do I get work?  22:29 So there are multiple ways to get work Right and there are investments that you can make in order to get work Right. You can invest in a pay to play. You can invest in you know management. You can invest in a marketing company that can help you to market. You've decided you're going to hang that shingle out and you're going to do it.  22:53 Well, now you've got to make money right. Now you've got to see that return on investment that you've made, and so you've got to make money. So how do you make money and how do you determine what products or what avenues to invest in so that you can find opportunities? Because that's really what you're doing. You're paying to find opportunities, and whether you're paying somebody to help market you in social media or maybe you're doing that yourself, that's really cost of your time, right, which is a cost you got to calculate, and we have a great episode on what's your hourly worth, right? How much do you get paid per hour? So figure out what that is worth. But let's talk about do you see pay-to-plays as being a worthy investment?  23:35 - Danielle (Guest) It can be a worthy investment, depending on the genre that you want to be working in. If you want to be working in a certain genre, that pay-to-plays are more often than not posting jobs for, absolutely yes, and usually those pay-to-plays have tiers.  23:53 - Anne (Host) Yes.  23:53 - Danielle (Guest) And usually those pay to plays have tiers. I started on a pay to play at the lowest tier as a proof of concept to make sure that I wanted to do this, that it made sense for me and was I going to be making my money back. And I found in one or two jobs I made that lowest tier, that I paid for the year I'd made that money back. So it made more sense to consider upgrading to higher and higher tiers and I think that's the way that you can sort of stair-step it. I agree.  24:14 But, if you know that you're wanting to go into a certain genre, that maybe a pay-to-play is not going to be as beneficial for you, then I would make it so that you're getting the best return on your investment of time and money as possible. But then you spend more of your time going into the spaces where that genre is more marketed and maybe that's not a pay to play. Maybe it is an agent, maybe it's not an agent, maybe it is your own time, maybe it's looking on social media sites for different types of work opportunities. So knowing the genre that you're trying to work in will then tell you where you should put your time and your energy and your money. And if you're trying to work in, will then tell you where you should put your time and your energy and your money and if you do want to work in both broadcast and non-broadcast right.  24:57 - Anne (Host) That, to me, separates out the you know which genres there's. Broadcast and non-broadcast. Broadcast require. You know you're going to have an agent and maybe a manager. You're not going to have to invest in an agent, by the way. You don't have to invest money in an agent, but you have to invest money in a demo that will attract an agent and auditions and or jobs that you've booked on, maybe pay to plays or rosters that attract an agent to want to put you on their roster.  25:20 - Danielle (Guest) That's number one and they would probably need to see it on your website or see, like where those types of jobs that you've done or your demos.  25:26 - Anne (Host) Absolutely.  25:26 And I do want to just make one point about the pay to plays, because there's so many many people that that's always the biggest. I think is one of the biggest topics of discussion is pay-to-plays and what tiers and what's worth it. Back in the day when I joined, there was only one tier and it was like a few hundred dollars a year. And I, what I, even if you join on that first tier right and just to dip your toes in the water, remember, to me it's an education because you're starting, because if you have never worked in voiceover, you don't know what real jobs are out there. You might have worked with a coach that gave you scripts they were practice scripts, they weren't actual jobs that maybe had casting specs or a quote. You know like, oh, here we're going to pay you this amount of money and here's the audition I want you to do, or here's the actual size of the job. And so you're really I think if you're even just on a bare bones level of those pay to plays, you're paying for education to find out what jobs are current out there, who's hiring and what types of jobs are they hiring. So I always say a first level investment is always good for people kind of looking to dip their toes in the industry to find out if this is something they really like, because then they could see here are the types of jobs that are being offered out there, and here's what an actual corporate narration looks like, or here's what an e-learning module looks like, and so I think that's a very worthy investment. Then, yes, there are different tiers. Now there's always back and forth about is this tier worth it? Is the most expensive tier worth it? And, of course, I think that just depends on the timing of things and your ability to audition well and timely Agents.  26:58 Don't ever pay for an agent. If you have to pay for an agent, you need to like run. But managers, in terms of return on investment, if you do get a job through an agent, you're typically paying them a fee, a commission, and so that, yes, is a good return on your investment for the most part, unless you've got an agent who's unscrupulous and maybe not, you know, paying you, which actually does happen Something did just happen recently which is unfortunate and then a manager of which you're paying a certain percentage of every job, whether or not you got that job through them. So that is. You know that's another discussion which we actually had a podcast on that, Danielle because you do have a management company and for you it's a very worthwhile investment. Again, depending on the genres that you work in, a lot that is going to determine if it's worth the ROI.  27:49 So one last thing I want to talk about is ROI in terms of marketing. What should we consider a good return on investment for our marketing efforts? Should we hire, should we buy a CRM? Should we hire a marketing agency? Should we, you know, pay a social media manager to get us out there? I mean, there's so many different options and this could be like again like part two of an episode. You know what are those options and how do I determine the best ROI on that? And marketing is tough Marketing is tough Marketing.  28:22 - Danielle (Guest) I even consider, like my agents and managers, part of my marketing budget, because me doing all of these auditions through them and being associated with them on their websites or on their marketing materials is also marketing, and marketing is one of those that it can be that you really are playing the long game. You could be marketing to a potential client for years and years and then finally a job comes your way through them. Well, that's a worthwhile return on investment because you've been consistently reaching out to these people and, as time has gone on, they know you, they can trust you and they want to work with you. And you know the stars aligned where they had something that was a good fit for you. So it really the thing about marketing is that it is a long-term investment in the growth of you and your voiceover business.  29:19 So the ROI with marketing is a little bit more like. It's kind of like when you are consistently investing money into your savings account or into the stock market or into your retirement account. It's harder to track sometimes. It is hard to track sometimes, but you're doing it knowing that you're not necessarily trying to get an immediate return on investment. You're basically investing in the long-term health of your business, because then you're diversifying yourself from the pay-to-plays, from your agents, from your SEO expenses for your website, All of those things, your SEO expenses for your website, like all of those things. It's really just diversification, and that one is harder to track.  29:58 - Anne (Host) And also, you know, it can be a combination of any or all of the above that we've spoken about today and I mean I really appreciate it can be a combination of your investment in yourself and your performance and your auditioning techniques and investment in you know, refreshing your demos and investment in evolving or getting a new website. Investment in you know, maybe paying somebody to help you market yourself, and investment in you know a pay-to-plays and a management company. So all of these things together and as you evolve right, your investments and your expenses evolve. I mean that's really called growth? Yes, it is, and hopefully it spurs in a positive direction.  30:39 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, you can always also ask yourself you know if it's something that you're going to be putting your financial investments in. Can I afford it, yes or no? Right, how long will it take for me to be able to afford it? And what do I need to do to purchase it? What tools do I need to use to be able to purchase it? And then, what am I trying to gain from it? What does it look like if this were to be successful? What am I trying to get out of it?  31:04 And it can't just be I just want to book a job. That's a little too nebulous. It could just be something more like I want to feel more confident when I walk in my studio. That's a direction that you can go and then you can say, okay, return on investment, I got it, because now I feel a lot more confident. Check the box, but know what is it going to cost me? That could be money or not. And what am I trying? What is the outcome? What's the cost and what's the outcome? And then, when you can figure those two out and you're very clear about it, then go for it, because you'll know when you've had that ROI.  31:37 - Anne (Host) Love it, love it. And the one thing my takeaway is that ROI is not always financial. No, not always financial, not always easily measurable, so bosses out there lots of things to consider, Danielle, as always, what an amazing conversation. Thank you so much. Yeah, this was conversation. Thank you so much. Yeah, this was fun. Thank you for bringing it up.  31:54 Absolutely. I am going to give a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys have an amazing week and you know, you guys are absolutely worth our ROI. Absolutely have a good one. Bye, bye. Absolutely have a good one, bye, bye.  32:11 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. 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BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides join forces in this episode of the VO Boss Podcast for another installment of their Boss Superpower Series. They tackle a topic often considered taboo in the voice acting industry: voiceover as a hobby. This discussion explores whether pursuing voice acting without the pressure of a full-time income carries a stigma. The episode delves into concerns about hobbyists "taking away" jobs, examines the true meaning of commitment, and highlights how to embrace a voiceover journey for pure creative joy, whether it's a primary career or a cherished passion. Listeners will discover why being a BOSS means defining success on one's own terms. 00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne from VO Boss here.  00:03 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VO Boss. Vip membership, now with even more benefits.  00:10 - Anne (Host) So not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP plus tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself.  00:21 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best Voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you.  00:32 - Anne (Host) Join us guys at VO Boss and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit voboss.com slash VIP-membership to sign up today.  00:43 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:02 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the Boss Superpower Series with the one and only Lau Lapides.  01:12 - Lau (Guest) Hey, Anne.  01:13 - Anne (Host) And Lau 01:14 - Lau (Guest) Love being here, as always. Love it, oh, Lau, it's so good to see you. What would a Saturday be without being in the booth with Anne?  01:22 - Anne (Host) Really, I know, right, I mean it would not be a Saturday, I know right it wouldn't, but sometimes on Saturdays I have other hobbies that I like to do, actually, because now it's actually horse show season and every once in a while I have to go out of the studio and go watch my horse shows, because back in the day.  01:39 - Lau (Guest) I used to own a couple of horses and that was like a passion and a love of mine.  01:46 - Anne (Host) Are you a derby girl? Do you get into the Kentucky Derby? I'm not a derby girl, I'm a horse show girl, a jumper. So, yeah, I mean, I can watch a race, but I'm much more enthralled by watching horses jump over things.  01:56 But speaking of hobbies and alternate passions and other passions we talk about voiceover as a full-time career all the time. Passions we talk about voiceover as a full-time career all the time, but there's a taboo topic about voiceover as a hobby. Maybe we should discuss that, laura. How do you feel about that? Is there a stigma around voiceover as a hobby in our industry?  02:19 - Lau (Guest) I think there is and it took me a while to actually let it come to the front of my brain that that was a real thing that people were distancing themselves from the notion of well, I'm in it to win it. I have to do it full time, I have to make a living and I have to do it like now, and the options are really there on the table for you, whether you would call it a full-time or full-time contractor position, whether it's a part-time and fills the holes in your schedule, in between your other lives, or whether it's a hobby, something creative, something joyful, something you love to do, but it's really not about money.  03:01 - Anne (Host) Well, okay, so let's just talk about the elephant in the room, right? Those that do voiceover as a hobby, right, could potentially be seen as taking away jobs from those people who do this for a living. And so those are the people that I think I see other people talk about them in different groups and Facebook groups and forums about how, oh, are you doing voiceover for a career or a hobby? Because if it's a hobby, then poo-poo, and so there's usually kind of a look of disdain upon those people doing it as a hobby. But I like how we're entertaining the thought of it because, I mean, there's lots of reasons why you want to get invested in voiceover, and not all the time is it to make tons of money and pay the mortgage. I mean, sometimes maybe you're in retirement and you just want a creative outlet, or maybe not even retirement, you just want a creative outlet. And do you feel, Lau, that this is taking away jobs from those of us who do it full time? What are your thoughts on that?  04:01 - Lau (Guest) No, in fact I got to be honest with you, Anne that didn't even come to my mind. It didn't come to my mind because I feel like best person wins the game.  04:10 And if you're in the game to win it and you're serious about it, there's going to be work for you, there's going to be jobs for you. To think about people who are not earning money or living as taking away your work to me is very strange, because it's like, well, it's a capitalistic market. It's like I have to train, I have to have my tools in place, I have to have my protocols and etiquette, I have to know everything that I can know to compete. But can I control the market? Can I control who's in the market? No Right, absolutely. That's true of every industry. I mean, how many times? Let's be honest.  04:43 - Anne (Host) And that's a really good point, laura, wait, wait, I got an honest point for you.  04:46 - Lau (Guest) How many times and listeners, be honest with yourself have you had a problem with your light bulb and your Uncle Harry, who's a retired electrician maybe, is going to fix it for you? Okay, well, you say, of course, let him fix it, sure. Well, he said, of course, let him fix it, sure, I don't even have to pay him. That's really great, wonderful. Well, the reality is is he took away a job from an electrician who's on the market right now. Who would love to get that job? Sure. But the reality is it's like we're built on relationships. We're built on the history of knowing people.  05:19 So not everything is going to be about a competitive job.  05:21 - Anne (Host) Such a great point. I mean and we talk about it in casting all the time I mean, sometimes they choose to go a different direction. Well, what is that other direction? Well, maybe their niece or nephew does voiceover, or maybe it's a friend of theirs that wants to give it a shot, and so, in reality, we don't really have control over that aspect of it. As to the decision of the casting, Again it's like who gets the job?  05:46 I mean is it always the best that gets the job? No, not really. No, sometimes it's just the most convenient or the one that's the cheapest.  05:53 And that is not necessarily our decision or under our control, so I love that you brought that up. I'd like to discuss the fact that I've had students who have tried voiceover and they've tried different genres. Of course you know I have specific genres that I work on and they've decided. You know what. I'm not so sure that voiceover is for me because they find out maybe it's not quite as enjoyable as they thought, or maybe I'm given homework, so maybe they're like I don't want to do Anne homework, so you know what I don't think I'm going to do voiceover anymore, but sometimes you don't know until you explore the path of creative journey.  06:29 - Lau (Guest) You just don't know.  06:30 - Anne (Host) And then all of a sudden, it's like you know what? I don't love it as much as I thought I was going to and therefore, maybe they have a great voice and we would be, maybe, as coaches, saying oh my God, you have a fabulous voice and you're natural at it and maybe they're just like you know. Okay, if I get asked to do it, so I mean there are all sorts of reasons.  06:47 - Lau (Guest) It isn't an all or nothing type of a trade. And besides, if you equate it to any other arts that are out there, like, does that mean I can't paint a painting without selling it? Does that mean I can't create a pot without selling the ceramics? Does that mean I can't dance without getting a job at dancing? It sounds kind of silly when you put it that way, but a lot of us consider it not just a trade but an art form. So to do it as an art form for the creative force of strengthening your voice and communicating and doing all the things that we do in voiceover, I think it's a missed opportunity to not do it because you think it is only meant to be a job and make money. It's also an art form.  07:31 - Anne (Host) And again, yeah, I'm a big believer about it's all about the journey, really not about the end point. Sometimes there's a lot of self-discovery in voiceover because it is a creative. Actually, I think all jobs are creative for the most part. Or they can be made creative or they can be thought of as creative. You can construct them as creative if you want, and so some are just a little more. I would say they lean more towards the creative field where you have more freedom of it. But I think a lot of times it's a journey and that's a wonderful journey to be on. I think we all go through some sort of a creative journey in our lives.  08:08 Absolutely and this is one that can really help you get in tune with yourself, because it is something that is directly in tune with ourselves, our voice.  08:17 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, and not only is it a fun challenge, but it is just that it can be just pure fun. If you get in the booth and you're doing, let's say, an animation character and you love character work, you may be doing that for the sheer benefit of doing it, the process of doing it, sharing with others that you've done it, listening back, enjoying the fun factor of it. You may or may not book that, that may or may not be a job for you, but it is part of that. You used the word journey that you can really have in yourself for other things Like what if you're a teacher? What if you're an educator? What?  08:53 if you are someone who is, or a therapist, or even a doctor, well, you would take these pop moments in your life and you can use them as part of your story, to connect with your audience, to connect with your customers, whoever they are.  09:09 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, and you know our journeys as we go along and I talk about this frequently is I use every part of my life experience in voiceover, and so voiceover is also a part of my life experience, and so I can use that in many ways other than just voiceover. I can, just as you mentioned, to be a better communicator, to really learn more about myself and to evolve, and so I really think that voiceover as a hobby is absolutely something we can entertain. And hey look, who's the pot calling the kettle black? Is that the phrase?  09:40 I have lots of different divisions of my business because I follow lots of different passions and that doesn't mean that voiceover is part-time for me. I mean, my main function here is voiceover. But there are lots of passions that I follow and, for example, my little foray into fashion. There's lots of fashion influencers out there that do it full-time. That might think, oh, who's this girl? Every once in a while I see a post from her and she's not really a fashion. I don't even like to say the word influencer. I just say I want to share my passion for fashion and hey, if I can make a little side income that's cool, but if not, it's not a big deal. I love the creative aspect of curating outfits.  10:19 - Lau (Guest) To me, what it comes down to is the gestalt of how much just as human beings, unfortunately we still love labeling.  10:26 We're very much designer in that way. We want to label people. We want to label what they do, what they have, what they are. We want to type them quickly so that it's easy for us to know oh, this is the girl that does that, this is the guy that does that, whatever. And the labeling can be very detrimental to us, because I see this all the time, with new voiceover talent coming in and actors coming in saying, oh, but this coach told me I need to do that and I need to be invested in this way and I need to be put in this net. And I said well, wait a second.  10:57 That is someone's interpretation of what this career is, based on their own subjective frame of reference. It has nothing to do with you. You've got to figure out your life. You've got to figure out your level of commitment, how you feel about it. In copy, we call it point of view. What's your point of view about this? It's sort of like we want to come in and it makes it easy for us if someone can label us. If they can label us, then we can follow the cookie cutter path of what we're supposed to do. But it's not that kind of career. Artistic careers are not that kind of career.  11:33 - Anne (Host) And again along those lines, is there a path to being a part-time voiceover talent? Is it a requirement that they get training, that they get a demo, that they do all of those things? That typically what we would suggest and recommend that they do for full-time?  11:49 - Lau (Guest) I honestly don't think anything is a requirement. I think it's only a requirement if you're trying to reach a particular level of your craft or career, and then you kind of have to do the due diligence of research. Oh well, if I'm going to use this as a career, then I know I need a demo of this kind. But if I'm not, if that's not my objective and I'm honest about that, I feel really good about that I may or may not need that, I may or may not. Right, it's a different level. I mean, a hobbyist has a different level of everything compared to a professional, sure, and the expectations can be very different as well.  12:26 - Anne (Host) Well, I'll tell you something that my level of commitment to back. When I was younger, riding horses right. It wasn't a job for me. I wanted it ultimately someday to be a job.  12:36 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) You loved it, but I loved it.  12:38 - Anne (Host) I followed my passion and I spent hours. I mean hours and hours and hours. I mean thousands of hours, tens of thousands of hours riding and practicing, and so I don't think you can put a label on oh, you're part-time, so it's a DIY demo. They're not training, they're getting their instruction on the internet. I hear a lot of talk like that and it's really it's negative talk. I'd like to say hey, guys, if you want to explore voiceover, if you have other passions that you want to pursue and you just want to do voiceover part-time, it's absolutely okay. There's no straight path to get there. There's no. You have to do this, you must do this to become a part-time voiceover talent. There's only recommendations on what might work for your journey to evolve and to get better.  13:24 - Lau (Guest) Absolutely. I think that's true of probably every profession that's out there. I think it applies to anything that you want to do. It's like as you move up the ladder, as you go level to level, you learn more about what the expectations are, what the industry standards are, what your competition has and utilizes to book work. But to come into it and to have this false or artificial notion of, oh, I should be doing this, I want to be, that Everyone told me I should be doing this. Well, listen, do you want to be in the cool kids group? Do you want to be in the cool clicky? You know everyone is cool or do you want to be true to yourself?  14:04 - Anne (Host) Right Like do you want to be?  14:05 - Lau (Guest) literally true to your own voice is the question. Yeah, absolutely. You can have many experts and professionals helping you along the way, but it's not about being in the cool kids club.  14:15 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and you know, what's so wonderful about that is that it's freeing, right? If I think about my alternative hobbies, that I do, right, I don't care what people think about me when I'm doing my hobby, I mean, and that allows me to experience more joy. I think Sometimes, oh, I've got a dedicated path to a full-time career and therefore here's what I should do in order to achieve that path, and then I can be judged. But when I decide I'm going to just do this for my own fun, for the creative journey of it, guess what? I tend to not think about what other people think of me and that, oh my gosh, as full-time voiceover talent, if we could, as actors, if we could just employ that attitude where you don't necessarily care what other people are saying about you, especially if it's negative, then I think that's a wonderful thing.  15:03 - Lau (Guest) You know, it brings us back to kids being kids, and like I don't mean kids at 10. I mean no, I mean younger, I mean like the under five crowd. It's like they're just not aware of what someone else thinks in regards to their playtime.  15:20 They're so invested in their imagination and their moments in their mind that they can shift and pivot to. I can be a king, I can be a dog, I can be a truck, I can be right, Like the possibilities of the magic. What if right? I can be anything I want to be and I don't have to worry about the outcomes of it, Like we're not into outcomes yet at that stage of the game. If we could have a moment of going back to that and just honestly play and be present and enjoy those moments without worrying about the outcomes, what people are saying, what people are thinking, then you're really going to free yourself to do your best work, yeah.  16:00 - Anne (Host) It just makes me think of like the judgment sometimes that I see that has passed on a part-time voiceover or voiceover people that are not necessarily studying under a coach or they're doing their own demo or they're auditioning for jobs that pay low. And if you're doing it as a hobby and typically if it's a hobby you're not always needing to make money from it. It's really just again, it's your creative expression, it's your enjoyment, your joy. You're not necessarily having to make a huge salary off of it. So then we kind of get to the point where, okay, are they bottom feeding the market? Are they bringing down the value of what it is that we do? Full time Lau.  16:44 - Lau (Guest) I don't know how to answer that, because I think the world is so large. Do full-time Lau? I don't know how to answer that, because I think the world is so large and the compartmentalization of all the different genres, all the different budgets, all the different potential clients are vast. They're huge. So I don't think there's one answer to that.  16:59 One of the biggest problems that I see as a coach is people coming in who are really hobbyists, who are treating it like they're going to make a living at it and really starting to unpeel the onion and decipher. Well, wait a second, can we be honest about this? This is not your career. Why? Because I'm looking at the time you commit, I'm looking at your level of investment, I'm looking at your strategy. I'm looking at your strategy. I'm looking at your talent. I'm looking at all these things that are the pivotal markers of a career person.  17:33 Right, they're not there yet. You're still in hobby mode. Do you realize that? Right, like, well, wait, can't I write this off on my taxes? Can't I get all of that? I said yes, if you work. Yeah, yeah, absolutely yes. If it becomes a business for you, have income against it, right? So I think the bigger issue in my mind not to divert away from your original question, but the bigger issue is that gap in people's minds between what they think they should be doing and want to be doing and what they're actually doing. And what they're actually doing quite oftentimes is what a hobbyist would do.  18:09 - Anne (Host) And then there's a lot of people I know that are like well, I want to be able to pay for my investment. So if they're coaching or if they're, even if they're doing it part-time and they're going to get a demo, they're like, well, I want to work so I can pay for this demo. And that is where I think that gray area is, because it's difficult for people unless they have a certain level of talent that's just innately without coaching or without having a great produced demo, because, you know, I always put my stamp of approval on that, you know, being transparent as a coach and demo producer. But there's a lot of people who don't necessarily. They want to be able to work so that they can pay for their investment in their hobby, because hobbies can be expensive, right, hobbies can be expensive.  18:55 - Lau (Guest) Exactly, exactly. But I asked the question and I always put it in another context because when you're too close to something, you oftentimes can't see it right. So if I say, okay, that makes sense. Now, if you're going to become attorney and you're going to be in Lau school for three or four years, why don't you work as an attorney and make the money so you?  19:14 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) can pay for Lau school. They say well, that's kind of crazy.  19:17 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) They're not going to let me do that.  19:18 - Lau (Guest) I haven't passed the bar. I don't have any credits. I said right, Are you going to work as a dentist as you go through dental? It's the same thing, Exactly.  19:27 - Anne (Host) That mindset, that's a great analogy.  19:29 - Lau (Guest) I'm like this should be easy for me to do. I should be able to get it so I can pay for my coaching. Say no, the investment in the education comes first. Yeah, and then you go out and look for the work, yeah, and it's like any good hobby.  19:41 - Anne (Host) I mean gosh, so many hobbies I had. But when, I think about when I was a young girl riding horses right? Well, I had to pay for my lessons, I had to pay for my own saddle, I had to pay for my riding outfit, I had to pay entry fees into the shows that I was competing in, and so my hobby was competitive. My hobby was I really dove deep and it was expensive, and my parents didn't let me forget that. But, I was so fortunate.  20:08 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I always tell people.  20:08 - Anne (Host) well, I worked at the stable so I could work off my lessons, and so that took care of maybe a portion of the payment.  20:15 But my parents knew that I was invested because I was like, oh, and I spent all my time at the stables. I mean I shoveled enough manure to get some good background and investment into my passion, yeah. But I mean, in reality, I mean I invested as much, if not more, I think, into my hobby and then kind of knowing, when I got old enough to go to college, well then I had to go study for a real job.  20:39 But times have changed now right A little bit, so it's just gotten to the point where I love that I've always been able to follow my passions. Not everybody is there at a young age or can follow their passions throughout their life. I've always been fortunate, I think, that I've had this kind of gut to follow my passions in lots of different ways and figure out how I can still pay the bills while I do that, but you were very always pragmatic in understanding that you needed a survival job, exactly you needed to be hustling throughout.  21:09 - Lau (Guest) So, whether it was in your field or whether it was something totally unrelated, that was like a given to you. You were taught that you understood the work ethic of that, so that, I think, separates the hobbyists from the professionals in that.  21:22 - Anne (Host) But the good thing is is I feel like I have always been able to follow a passion where the money can help me pay the bills. And so, however, I fixated on that passion, like, for example, I was good at school, right, so I went to college and I studied engineering because people told me I should, right, but then I got into a job where I was designing creative, three-dimensional artificial hip and knee prostheses, and that creative like, oh, I got to be an engineer and that creativity was like it was my passion, right, following a creative, following something that allowed me to be creative and then ultimately getting into teaching.  21:58 After that right, sharing my love of I'm so excited about this, let me share it. And that was following that passion. And then I was able to teach. And so I think there are people at different stages of their life that all of a sudden say, oh, I need a creative outlet. Where they haven't really looked at where is their creative outlet now.  22:18 And I think people always have a creative outlet. They just don't expand upon it if they can or think about it in terms of it being a creative outlet. But at any given stage of life they get to a point where they say I want to be more creative. That's the majority of people that come to me that say they want to learn voiceovers. Gosh, you know, I'm just looking for something. I hate my job or I'm just looking for something that allows me to expand my creativity and that is following a passion. And at whatever stage you're at the passion and at whatever stage you're at, I don't think it matters whether you decide to do that full-time or part-time. It is a journey of creative experience for you.  22:52 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, I just think one of the bigger mistakes that I see happen and it happens all the time as I meet people is that they mistake the idea that they can quit their day job and leave their life and leave everything and just become a full voiceover.  23:06 Talent and as a contractor. It's just not going to happen that way. It really just isn't. It's not going to happen as any kind of a contractor, let alone this kind of. So you really have to be honest about that. And, like I, have a talent who has worked for a company, an insurance company, for like 10 years or a long time as their spokesperson, as their voiceover. She does nothing else. She does nothing else. She does nothing else. She just had a baby. She'll probably have another baby. She aspires to do more, but in my heart of heart I know she won't. I know she won't because when she hits the level of time and energy that it would take to do that, she stops. She can't go past that and I say be happy, be happy, be fulfilled, be okay with that. If that's what you can do and what you want to accomplish, don't keep pushing for the moon and the stars when the reality is is you're not wanting to really do the work to get to the moon and the stars.  24:05 - Anne (Host) I love that you say that, because some people don't realize it. Some people don't realize it that they don't want to do the work and they say they want to and they, but they don't. But they really don't, they really don't. And here's the deal, guys. I mean, I got out of a corporate job, right. I got out of it and you think oh, it's going to be easy.  24:23 Right, this should be easy. Now, if you're performing and you're being the actor and it feels easy to you because I want to make a distinction here and it feels easy, well, you've probably put in the hours and you're definitely in that moment where you are acting and it seems like it's easy. But in reality the amount of hours you had to put in probably to get there may or may not have been easy. That's right. When it becomes easy and it feels good, then you know you're in that creative moment right where you're expressing your creativity. But to get to the moments where you can do that more often than you have to actually run the business because we talk about that's the work.  25:02 A lot of the work that has to go into it is the business aspect of it, which is why we have this podcast right. There's the whole business aspect, which requires more work than I ever put into my corporate job and I put in a lot of work in my corporate job. I worked three jobs, probably overtime, but I put more work into this full-time voice acting gig than I ever put into my corporate job and I put a lot of work in my corporate job.  25:27 - Lau (Guest) Because you love it. Because you love it, there's a passion, there's an honesty about it. You love it, you want to do it right. It's there for you. I got to tell you I'm a little jealous sometimes of the lives lived gone by that I had as well, where we were doing like community theater, we were doing things that had no money involved, no end game involved, other than the actual experience of doing it and just loving it, just like being, and we were rehearsing every night. We would do it for three, four months and then we would do one weekend of shows you know what I mean and I say, oh wow.  26:04 Sometimes I really miss those days, Anne, because that was the most honest, yeah most honest moments of I want to do this, I love doing this, I love being with the people and I'm doing it. That has ever been in many lives. Once we get tainted a little bit with oh, I have to make, money, I have to make money.  26:26 - Anne (Host) We got to pay the bills right. We got to pay the bills. If we didn't have to pay bills in our lifetime, wouldn't it be nice. We've got to pay the bills right, we've got to pay the bills. If we didn't have to pay bills in our lifetime, wouldn't it be nice. What would? Our world look like if we didn't have to pay bills, If we could just do what it was that we felt was our calling and have creative exploration.  26:42 - Lau (Guest) I also think though, if we're being honest, we do use money as a marker.  26:46 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) As a motivator. It's a motivator too it's incentive.  26:49 - Lau (Guest) It also feels really good when you earn money for something you love to do or do. Well, it feels really good. There's a rightness about it. Should it be all about that? Probably not. Yeah, probably not, because I think you can lose the luster very easily of why you came into it in the first place.  27:09 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I feel like the money is a good motivator. And it's interesting because I say to people like for me, I love the business of voiceover, because I love to see how I can make money, like in many different ways. And it's not necessarily that I well, I love money. I can say I love money but it's not important that I have to have a ton of it, but it's the creative challenge of making money. That's a whole other show, Anne. That's a whole—we've got to do a show on that.  27:35 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) How much do you love?  27:36 - Lau (Guest) money, because I'm telling you, this is like one of our top ten taboo lists that we're creating. Yeah, absolutely, the hobbyist on the taboo list Money. It's okay to love money on the taboo list. There's probably other stuff too that we'll think of along the way, but it's like we're trying to dispel this. It's not even a myth. It's true that you are made to feel this way in our society and it's not accurate. You don't have to feel that guilt. You don't have to feel bad about loving to do something and not wanting to make money at it, absolutely.  28:08 - Anne (Host) Or even if you want to make money at it, you don't have to feel bad. And so you guys bosses out there. You don't have to do full-time voiceover to be a boss. You can absolutely pursue part-time voiceover and be a boss and be the best boss that you can. So great conversation, laura.  28:26 - Lau (Guest) I love that we fixed that one.  28:28 - Anne (Host) Yeah right, that was a goodie. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. See you next time.  28:44 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes, get ready for an inspiring conversation with a true powerhouse of performance. In this episode of the VO Boss Podcast, we welcome the incredibly talented Stacia Newcomb, a veteran voice actor and performer who has been lighting up the mic and screen for over 20 years!   00:01 - Speaker 1 (Announcement) Hey bosses, if you're ready to start that demo journey, let's craft your professional demo together. As an award-winning professional demo producer, I'll collaborate with you to showcase your talent in the best possible light. From refining your delivery to selecting the perfect scripts to showcase your brand, I'll ensure your demo reflects your skills and personality. Let's create a demo that opens doors and paves the way for your success. Schedule your session at anneganguzza.com today.  00:33 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the Boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a Boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:52 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I'm here with a very special guest who's been lighting up the mic and the screen for over 20 years. Who's been lighting up the mic and the screen for over 20 years?  01:09 Stacia Newcomb is a powerhouse voice actor, performer and creator whose work spans just about every medium, let's say television, radio, video games, audiobooks and even puppetry. You might recognize her as the star voice See what I did there and fuzzy face of star from the Good Night Show on Sprout, where she's brought warmth and comfort to bedtime for kids for over a decade. Not only that, but she's voiced characters for Disney, nickelodeon, pbs, kids and Cartoon Network. And, of course, you've heard her in campaigns for brands like Geico, verizon, subway and Dunkin'. She's made her mark on stage and screen from a memorable appearance on 30 Rock, which I found to be quite interesting We'll talk about that in a minute to sold-out off-Broadway comedy shows like Can I Say this? I Can Shit Show and Potty in the USA. I can't say that because it's my podcast. Yes, these days she's running her own studio in the Berkshires Sound and the Furry where she produces family-friendly content and helps other performers find their voice. Welcome to the show Stacia.  02:12 - Stacia (Guest) Wow, thank you. That was quite the intro.  02:15 - Anne (Host) I'm like wow, I was like wow, I don't think 30 minutes is enough time for us, Stacia, to go through everything that you've done. Let's not, then We'll talk about whatever we want to. It's just, it's so amazing. I mean, so you've been in the industry for over 20 years, which actually to me, I've been in it just the voiceover aspect for like 18. And so 20 years feels like it was yesterday to me. But talk to us a little bit, talk to the bosses and tell us a little bit how you first got into performance. I assume performance was before voiceover.  02:50 - Stacia (Guest) Yeah, yeah, hey, bosses. Yeah, I started as an actor. I wanted to be an actor for as long as I can remember, I mean when I was little. My mom still tells a story about how I performed for all of my five-year-old friends at my fifth birthday party, which sounds like still a good party to me, right? So, yeah, so I started as an actor and through that I tried to just branch off into any direction that I could, to be living a creative life and be able to continue performing in whatever medium I could. You know.  03:34 - Anne (Host) So what was one of the first things that you did? Performance wise, professionally, yes, professionally.  03:38 - Stacia (Guest) So I this is so random, but there is. I'm from Massachusetts, that's where I grew up. In Newport, rhode Island, which I don't know if there are any Gilded Age fans out there there was a mansion, the Astors Beachwood, and the Astors Beachwood was owned by the Astors at the time when I graduated high school. At the time, for about 10 or 15 years, I think they had. They hired actors from all over the country to live there and perform as both aristocrats and servants of the 1890s the year was 1891. And we yeah, it was all improv, like some days I'd be an aristocrat and some days I'd be a little housemaid.  04:22 - Anne (Host) Wow, that sounds so interesting. Now you said Massachusetts. Now see, I'm originally a New York State girl, right, and I've been up and down the East Coast, so Massachusetts would suggest that you have an accent in there somewhere. Yeah, I sure do.  04:37 - Stacia (Guest) It's right there.  04:38 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and of course I feel like, because I had a very New York State accent which was kind of similar, believe it or not, not quite as I don't know, not quite as accented as, not as ugly. Is that what you're trying to say? Oh no, because I would say things like car and water and it would be like really flat with my A is water.  05:01 And when I moved to New Jersey, oh my gosh did they make fun of me, and so I should not make fun of you?  05:04 in New Jersey, in New.  05:04 - Stacia (Guest) Jersey, they say, they say water.  05:05 - Anne (Host) They say water, what's water, and so I literally like and I think you're, I think possibly at the time this was before voiceover I said, oh gosh, all right, so let me try to tame that, and so I did my own taming of my own accent and then ultimately, I got into voiceover.  05:36 And back when I got into voiceover it was a thing to neutral, to quote, unquote, neutralize, whatever that means, neutralize your accent. And I said it was in a pink envelope and I brought it to the backstage door and so I heard myself say that and I was like and so from then on I just I started pronouncing my R's and have never looked back.  06:02 I imagine once you do, you have family that's still in the area.  06:05 - Stacia (Guest) Yes, in fact, we just moved my mom out of the area.  06:08 - Anne (Host) Yeah, when you go to family reunions and I think that when I get around my you know, my family in New Jersey, like we all start talking quicker and then we start, you know, well, let's talk about you know, we just like get into that accent and it just happens inadvertently but outside of the accent. So that's a really cool first gig. And so then did you go to school for theater?  06:33 - Stacia (Guest) We did OK. So I had done a little dinner theater and then I but I had been auditioning in New York. I had a big callback when I was like 18. I was called back for Les Mis and it didn't happen, unfortunately. But it's cool because it led me on other adventures.  06:52 - Anne (Host) Sure, that was one of my first shows by the way that I saw that. I saw that. I was in a show. No, yeah. No, I can't claim that, but but a callback for Les Mis is really awesome.  07:01 - Stacia (Guest) Yeah, it was a big deal, I and I, so I always. The plan was always to move to New York City, but it just takes a while to get on your feet and New York City is very expensive and a little scary when you're you know, sure is Absolutely Very scary.  07:15 Yeah, and so I ended up getting there eventually. But I did go to college and then I quit college because I realized at some point, like I'm getting a degree in musical theater and what am I going to do with that degree? And I'm spending so much money, but when you're 19 years old you don't realize what you're signing on the dot. You're signing your name on the dotted line for thousands upon thousands of dollars and it's the program itself ended up falling apart. And there were all these promises that were made to me, like you know I, because they gave me a bunch of credits because I'd already been working as an actor, and then I was going to go to London and then they were going to give me my master's so I should have had my master's within five years master's in theater performance. They also had a program where, like I would get my equity card and they do theater during the summers. But it was a small liberal arts Catholic college in Minnesota and the program sort of fell apart and I escaped. I was like this is not.  08:21 - Anne (Host) I had to get out of there. I escaped. That was a lot of that was a lot of words, and I'm not going to make this political at all, but that was a lot of words when you said Minnesota Catholic theater. Coming from a Catholic girl.  08:35 - Stacia (Guest) So I get that. Yes, so it was run by these two incredible gay men who were. They were amazing, but as you can imagine the politics at the time and just yeah, they were amazing, but as you can imagine the politics at the time and just yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, and so all right.  08:48 - Anne (Host) So you quit college. And then what? I quit college.  08:53 - Stacia (Guest) But I got a job before I left, so I needed the impetus and the excuse to get out, which so I ended up working for Goodspeed Musicals, which is in Connecticut and they're a really pretty famous like regional theater. They'd won a lot of awards at the musical Annie started there, so I went there to be an intern in costuming and then I left that because I was like this is not what I want to be doing, I want to be performing. But it got me back east, which was great, and then from there I ended up taking like odd jobs, living with my parents for a little bit until I landed a show that took me on tour as a one person it was actually two different one woman shows for this company that's an educational theater company, and so I did that for like five years and while I was doing that I was able to make enough money to move to New York City and just keep going.  09:47 - Anne (Host) Now, what shows were those that you did that? The one woman shows, because that's quite a thing to do, a one woman show.  09:53 - Stacia (Guest) Yeah, and they're educational. So we would go to I would go alone really, I would travel all over the country, and one of them I played the fictional best friend of Anne Frank, and then the other one I played this young Irish girl who came over during the great wave of immigrants in the early 1900s. So I would go to, like schools and libraries and small theaters, and it was.  10:16 - Anne (Host) It was really incredible, an incredible job for a learning experience Now, at any given time at this point in your life. Did your parents or anyone ever say to you well, okay, so when are you going to get a real job? Do you know what I mean? Is it that? Was it ever like that for you?  10:35 - Stacia (Guest) I mean, yeah, I mean, I think probably in my own mind I thought not real job, but like when's the real, when are we gonna you know, and certainly when I would do my? You know, when that really happens is like around March or April, when you start doing your taxes and you're like exactly, theater doesn't pay, and so yeah, but I didn't get pressure like that from my parents. I got, I was lucky to get their support.  11:05 - Anne (Host) Yeah, that's wonderful.  11:06 - Stacia (Guest) I mean, they didn't have to support me financially and that's, I think, all that mattered to them.  11:10 - Anne (Host) Well, that's actually huge.  11:12 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And.  11:12 - Anne (Host) I love that Because you had support to be able to go out and follow your creative dreams, which, I mean, my gosh, you, you've actually I mean you have the gamut of of creative things that you've done, and I imagine that just gives you such wonderful experience, because you're so rounded in all the areas that would make it important for you to be successful in any of those business areas.  11:38 - Stacia (Guest) Thank you, I think it's it's. It's also like trying new things and being new at things and, um, trying to not get be stagnant. You know, like just um, and and even always in my voiceover career, it's like I have to remind myself to uh, like that I get to do this and that that this is what I love, and just to to make it. How do you make it fresh when you've been doing it for so long?  12:08 - Anne (Host) For so long, absolutely.  12:11 - Stacia (Guest) And it's a different thing when you look at whatever you're about to experience or do with fresh eyes or like beginner eyes or like from a beginner experience, because you immediately are like, whoa, I love this, you know, and sometimes I think that can easily bring back the magic to whatever you're working on.  12:34 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah. So, these days are you mostly doing voiceover, doing voiceover and performing.  12:41 - Stacia (Guest) Yeah Well, so the pandemic changed a lot of things for me. We, because I've been in New York City and you know I'm still. We still have our apartment in New York City, but I'm mostly up at our house in the woods in the Berkshires. Yeah, I am still auditioning, I am still doing voice, a lot of voiceover. So yeah, I'm kind of all over the place and sort of open to whatever happens. I'm not I think I haven't been fully steering my own ship. I've kind of been like I don't know where are we going to go, Whatever you know, and just being open to whatever.  13:15 - Anne (Host) And there's so much good to be said in that though.  13:18 Yeah kind of allowing it to happen. I, I think for me and I don't know, I don't know what to call it, but for me I've always followed my gut or my intuition, and a lot of times, if things don't come right away, I know they will at some point, but I don't. I try not to rush myself to get to any specific spot, because I know that if it's going to happen, it's going to happen, and and the time it takes to kind of evolve the solution or the you know, to actually say okay, yes, now I know I have more, I have more direction, and now I'm heading in this direction. So I love that you said that. I love that Because you're not always sure right, you're not.  13:55 - Stacia (Guest) You're not. And you know the business has changed so much over the last, you know, over the last five years. I mean it's. It's kind of crazy. It's a new world and it's different. Navigating it is different, even though I'm with the same agents, even though I'm, you know, still in the business and I know the casting people or the producers that I know and have worked with. It's just, it's different. Approaching it like, hey, yeah, I don't have to rush. I really love that, Anne, because I feel like there is a rush.  14:30 - Anne (Host) There's always a rush I want it now. Yeah, no, I agree, I think so many of my students are always. They want it, they want it now, and I'm like, well, there's something to be said to letting it marinate and letting it evolve and letting it happen.  14:43 - Stacia (Guest) And also like looking in the other direction or seeing what else you know, I think. I think a lot of times, artists, especially if you're focused on one particular medium, you just focus on that one thing. And I, I recently started painting. Am I good at it?  15:01 - Anne (Host) No, I love it. I love it, but I don't think anybody could ever accuse you of not like experiencing or exploring different mediums, but it keeps you alive, it keeps you like, creative and happy, and that's what I want.  15:14 - Stacia (Guest) It'd be exactly that like lightens you up and it opens you up to when you are approaching commercial copy or whatever. It is Right Because you're, because you haven't been like. Why am I not looking? Why am I not? What am I? Who do I?  15:31 - Anne (Host) need to be for this piece of copy and you're just, you're just letting it, you're letting it happen. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Oh my gosh. So what? Before I actually talk to you about, let's say, some character, I want to. I have some character questions to ask you, because I think you're always a character in voiceover and no matter what genre you're working on. But I do want to talk about puppetry and what got you into that?  15:51 - Stacia (Guest) I had been doing Pokemon. I was very lucky. When I moved to New York I worked as a cater waiter when I wasn't doing the that one of those one woman shows and a friend had introduced me to the studio that that at the time was recording Pokemon. So you know how it's like things trickle Around. That same time this show was off Broadway it was called Avenue Q and then that musical came to Broadway, which is where I was finally able to get tickets, because you could not get tickets to it and it was crazy and it was such a special show. It's just so funny. The music is great and touching. It has so much heart to it. I mean it's a little dated now, but at the time it was, it was just extraordinary.  16:38 - Anne (Host) And it's still yeah.  16:39 - Stacia (Guest) So in that show for anyone who any of the bosses out there that that haven't seen it or don't know about it in that musical you see the full-on puppeteers playing the puppets on stage and it's so revealing. And me, as a young woman, I always loved puppets. I had puppets as a kid. I had like an Alf puppet from Burger King. I had a Kermit the Frog puppet. I loved puppets. Never thought that it could be a career, never thought in a million years. And when you think about it there aren't a lot of. It seems like there aren't a lot of female puppeteers. There are and there are more, but as I was growing up it was all men really, and then you would have like even the female characters. I mean Miss Piggy's, like one of the most famous women female characters of all time. She's played by a man and so you know the idea of being able to play a, be a puppet. It just was not. It never, you know. And so I saw that show and it was just incredibly revealing to me. It was like a light bulb moment. So I immediately got a puppet and started training.  17:52 I actually was so lucky that I got into a class that John Tartaglia had been teaching at that point in the city and I got to study with him, which was amazing and he's a beautiful human being, and so from there it was just kind of magical. Somehow this show was uh happening. I did another little uh on camera thing, but then this show the good night show happened. I auditioned for it and I had already created this little four-year-old girl character. They wanted me to change it up and make it a boy character. Well, those voices are going to be very similar, because a four-year-old boy and girls can sound pretty similar oh yeah yeah, Actually I was listening to it, I was trying to figure out.  18:35 - Anne (Host) You know, I felt like it could have been either yeah, right, right, because it's so young.  18:41 - Stacia (Guest) So yeah, so I auditioned for it and I booked that job and it became a huge part of my life. I ended up creating a part of the show and writing for the show and helping create the spinoff of the show, and so there's your, there's your acting, your puppetry, your your voiceover.  19:00 - Anne (Host) I mean you're, I mean production, I mean it's all aspects.  19:04 - Stacia (Guest) Yeah, absolutely yeah that's, that's amazing. It was, it was a really it was a really special show and a beautiful community and even now I, michelle who, michelle Lepe, who was the host on the show she still gets messages about, you know, from the kids who grew up with it, just like how much it meant to them, which is very sweet. I don't because no one, because I don't look like this.  19:29 - Anne (Host) Well, you know, I can say something similar because I was a teacher for 20 years and so I watched my kids grow up and I literally had one of them contact me just recently on LinkedIn thanking me for setting them on the path, and I was like, oh my gosh, like that just meant the world to me, and so I think that's beautiful.  19:49 Right, and that's one of the reasons why I love doing any educational voiceover. Sure, because I feel like there's, and not just e-learning, but like medical, like I mean anything that educates an explainer that can help someone, and even corporate. Do you know what I mean? Because you're always come at it from an aspect of how can I help you, the person that I'm talking to, you know, look better, feel better, be better, you know, and really that's commercial too, because it really should be about how you're helping the person that's listening to you, yeah, and connecting in that way, and not necessarily what you sound like while you're doing it, yeah.  20:31 Let's not get wrapped up in that, yeah, no. And so with that, it's a good segue to start talking about characters, because you've done so many characters, but you also have done commercials. So when it comes to characters in voiceover, let's talk a little bit about that. How is it that you prepare for any given piece of copy? Is it always a character?  20:56 - Stacia (Guest) Is it always a character you mean like with?  21:00 - Anne (Host) character copy or what you mean, or any kind of copy. Do you create a character for any type of copy, any type of copy, I think?  21:06 - Stacia (Guest) for me, my approach to commercial copy is it depends on the spot but it also is like how you know the age old question how would I talk to? A friend about this sitcom, you know, like whatever it is, but I and so it's just about bringing my authentic self to it. But also there's a there's. I think there is a musicality to it, but also it really depends on what's on the page right or what we're selling, you know do you ever envision?  21:37 - Anne (Host) do you ever envision yourself as the um, the, the? On camera the zip cream or the character zip cream or the. The person on camera. The character Zipcreme or the person on camera.  21:47 - Stacia (Guest) Sure, yeah, I think I mean I love when you get any kind of visual or if they give you the break of what is gonna be on screen and then you can kind of I love visualizing. I think visualizing because what it does for me is it brings my imagination to life, which immediately I'm having way more fun in the booth yeah. Yeah, and it's enjoyable, even when the copy is like maybe a little like dry or sad or whatever, like liven it up by visualizing what's happening.  22:26 - Anne (Host) Yeah absolutely Believe it or not. That's a big thing. Even if I'm doing e-learning, I'm imagining that I'm the teacher, because I was a teacher for so long and so I can draw upon that experience, and it's better for me to talk almost like a one-on-one coaching with a student. And if I try to envision myself in front of the class, even when I was a teacher, I was always looking at one person at any given time. Yes, so it made it much more personal, of course, and so for e-learning, I'm a character Corporate narration. I'm a character because I work for the company and I'm trying to provide a solution that is going to help the person that I'm talking to, which makes it a whole lot more interesting than if you're just reading about it to someone.  23:15 - Stacia (Guest) Totally yeah, or sound, trying to sound like someone who reads these kinds of things. Right, it's like, because it's a really I think what it comes down to is connection and we, as actors, need to connect right copy, which means I probably need to understand it. That's, that's excellent.  23:25 - Anne (Host) So yeah, so how? What are your steps for connecting to copy?  23:28 - Stacia (Guest) It really depends on the piece. Recently I had to do what was pretty lengthy and I had to do the spot in 15 seconds and it was like okay, I don't usually read things over and over and over again because they feel like there's an element of um, uh, over overdoing it you know, I agree I agree.  23:52 So my booth is here behind me. That's why I'm pointing behind me, in case anyone's wondering Um, and so sometimes when I get in there, I will run it a few times like that particular spot because it had to be so quick. But at the same time, of course, they're going to want it to sound like I just talk, like that, you know, and so it's like it's marrying those two things right when I want it to come off like it feels like me. I'm just sort of having this talk, but I'm also. It's very quick and rapid and it falls within the 15 seconds. Yeah, so my approach is not always the same thing. It really depends on what I'm working with, and sometimes there isn't enough time, like in that 15 seconds, there's not enough time to visualize or do this. It's wall to wall copy and it's also I'm talking about this cool thing that you're going to love, and so it's just about like who sometimes I like playing with? Who am I talking to? Where am I? Proximity is such a fun thing to play with too.  24:57 - Anne (Host) You can do that in a minute or two, totally Right. Yeah, and that's the thing I always try to emphasize to my students is that it doesn't take a whole lot of time to figure out who you are and who you're talking to and maybe set a scene up, yeah, and to get yourself rolling on that. I mean it's nice if you have the entire scene as it progresses through, because that allows you to help tell the story. But if you don't have all the time in the world, but a lot of times we're auditioning in our studios. I mean, we're not live auditioning as much as we used to. Gosh knows that's the case, right? Um, and unless we're like in front of a, we're being live directed. That's a different story, right, but if we've got the time before we go into the studios, I mean, what do you take five minutes?  25:37 - Stacia (Guest) if you put different scenarios on it, because you're probably sending more than one read on this commercial copy and we don't know. But the thing that I've loved playing with recently is I really love doing a take. That's for me what do I want?  25:53 to do with this? How do I want to bring myself to this? Because I think that what makes us viable, that what makes us marketable, is us. We are not disembodied voices. We are human beings with lived in experiences, and so we're not just bringing our incredibly gorgeous voices. We are human beings with lived in experiences, and so we're not just bringing our incredibly gorgeous voices. We are bringing ourselves to this copy and what our lived experiences and our lives, and so that that's really fun to to, just like I would. I would, I would encourage everyone to just do one for you. What do you want it to sound like?  26:29 - Speaker 1 (Announcement) Exactly.  26:30 - Stacia (Guest) Because that's the most empowering feeling is to be like I want to do this with this, and that's when you're collaborating too Sure sure, and is that the take that you submit first?  26:42 - Anne (Host) Not necessarily. Is that take one, or is it the second take?  26:46 - Stacia (Guest) Like lately I have been exploring it and I just feel like I just want to be a little more playful, yeah, and so, yeah, I mean, I say not necessarily.  26:56 - Anne (Host) The truth is I lean towards that one, unless I've worked with the people before.  27:00 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Yeah, and I know what they're looking for. You know what I mean then I'm gonna just give them what they want.  27:04 - Anne (Host) But uh, if I don't know, and it's not like a critical like I, I always think like it's kind of like gambling for me, right, sure we're all gambling.  27:13 - Stacia (Guest) We're just all right, we're all gambling, right.  27:15 - Anne (Host) So I'm just gonna like, well, you know what, I'm just gonna do my best and I'm gonna, and I'm, and I'm gonna, just, you know, send it and forget it, that kind of thing. So I'm not gonna put so much stock in like, oh my god, did I do the right thing? Did I give them what they wanted? Am I going to get this? I try never to like hope and wish in that way for any job.  27:35 - Stacia (Guest) If you're saying I want to do this and that's where I'm like no, both of those takes are for me. It's not that it's for me, but it's like I'm going to give you what I want to give you, and then I'm going to give you another take of something different that I want to do with this.  27:53 And of course I read all the specs and of course I read and I'll even, you know, watch other spots that they've done to get an idea. Like we got to do our homework right, but then it's like you asked me to do this. I'm going to got to do our homework right, but then it's like you asked me to do this. I'm gonna do it my way. See, it's fun. I'm gonna have fun with it. I'm gonna. It's so much easier to let go when you like, because if you hold on to what you like, if you, if you don't give the what you want to do with it, read, then it's like you might live with regret yeah, you know, or like it sounds like everybody else's yeah right  28:29 at the end of the day maybe even they're all gonna sound somewhat the same, anyway, you know, but it's like at least you know you had fun with it. You felt like your authentic self and you and you played yeah yeah, you know.  28:43 - Anne (Host) So, being a singer, which I, that was the other part of the medium that I didn't really talk to you about, but I mean, I can actually hear just your talking voice, although I've never heard you sing. Except I did, I did go, you know, I did my homework, I did my, I did my YouTube. You have a gorgeous voice.  28:58 Oh, thank you, but I can hear that.  29:00 I can hear that in your voice as you speak to me, and it's so funny because I think that no one should have to try, right.  29:10 I think that no one should have to try right to create a voice that somebody thinks they want to hear. Because when we're connecting right and I actually listened to quite a different number of songs that you did in different styles, and one was from your potty show, and so you had such a range there and what was so cool is that you were just undoubtedly yourself and just like in all aspects of yourself, and that was just so cool because it was connecting and that was what I was looking for as a human being. I was looking for that, that connection in the voice and while you were on stage and while you were communicating to me, and I feel like it's the same exact thing. It's the same exact thing for voiceover, right. It's all about like your voice is beautiful, no matter what you're you know what I mean, no matter what you're doing, you don't have to try and so just connect with me, and that's really what I'm looking for as a human being, and I think that's what most casting directors are looking for.  30:04 And they tell me over and over again, that's really what they're looking for. Is connection, not necessarily the sound.  30:11 - Stacia (Guest) I think we get caught up in the sound. The sound or I flubbed on this, or I you know this or that, whatever it is, and it's like I. I don't want to be listening and I am because it's so hard when you're doing this yourself.  30:28 - Anne (Host) It is hard not to listen.  30:30 - Stacia (Guest) You have to take off the director hat while you're the actor, and then you have to take off the engineering.  30:39 - Anne (Host) You know you have to compartmentalize, because if you don't, and you don't because you'll, and then when you come back, Because if you don't and you don't because you'll, and then when you come back and you're the engineer slash director and you listen back and you're like, oh, as an actor, I really loved that last take, that's weird. I don't like listening to it, like I don't. I don't have that feeling brought this up because it's hard. It's hard for us to separate the ears, right. It's like you have to develop an ear, right, you have to develop an ear as an actor, you have to develop an ear as an audio engineer and you have to be able to separate them.  31:13 And it's funny because I've always maintained back, when I was really, you know, moving on this in this career, I was in a place where they were doing construction outside my home and I had, when I was in my studio, I had my headphones on. I had to keep them on because I had to make sure that there was none of that sound coming in, and so I had my headphones on a lot of time. And if, if you get good at it, I always say the headphones are just amplifying your voice, and so if you can not listen to your voice and just you know what I mean, like you can record with your headphones on. I mean, right, you got to do it when you're live directed anyways. So I'm always saying people are saying, oh, I don't wear my headphones because I try to listen to myself.  31:53 I'm like I could listen to myself with my headphones off. Do you know what I mean? But you've got to be able to compartmentalize, and I love that you said that, because that is a skill and it's a skill that I think takes a little bit of time for for people to to really really get to be able to to say, okay, this is my, this is my actor ears. Yeah, versus what do I sound like?  32:16 - Stacia (Guest) right, it's that constant like don't listen what you sound like and it's. It's also like there's because there is that judgment that comes in you and that when you are wearing cans, if you aren't telling your self limiter I talk about this a lot and we'll talk about it when when we work together with everyone, but if you aren't challenging them and saying I don't need you here right now, it's very powerful to send them away, to send that voice to me. For some reason, it's right here.  32:48 - Anne (Host) It's just very like right, that's like the magic secret Stacia, I mean I love that it works for me. So, I want to say that we are going to be having you as a VO Boss workshop guest director, so, and and we are going to be talking character creation. So will we be discussing, talk a little bit about what we're going to be talking character creation. So will we be discussing, talk a little bit about what we're going to be doing in that class.  33:08 - Stacia (Guest) What I would love to do is see where everyone's at, what they want to play with, and, of course, do that, but also, I think, for everyone, I would love to share the self limiter and what I, what I do to get rid of that sort of you know, it's a, it's a protection right. That's what that voice is doing. It's trying to help you, but it's not helpful. I love that.  33:34 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, that's like secret sauce.  33:36 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Yeah, yeah, I think so.  33:38 - Anne (Host) I know how hard that I mean. It's just, it's so hard. I mean, and you do have to, you have to be able to, you have to be able to separate it, you have to wrangle that?  33:46 - Stacia (Guest) Yeah, because that that voice that's trying to protect you inevitably is is keeping you safe. It's keeping you safe, it's doing its job and you don't. You do not want anyone keeping you safe when you're in your booth. Yeah, it is not a place for safety.  34:04 - Anne (Host) It is a place to play.  34:06 - Stacia (Guest) If you're playing safe and you're in a dramatic role for a video game and you're, you know you're about to I don't know shoot up some monsters, or you're afraid for your life or it, or you're, you know, some silly little kid like you got to be a little kid, you got to be playful and you know, or you got to be scared of those monsters or whatever's on that page. It is not a place for you to be protected or be playing it safe.  34:33 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, I love that. Did I just get on a soapbox? I think I did. I think that, no, I love that and and all right. So, from a different perspective right, I mean a different perspective, it the way that it hit me, but I love that. You teach that because I am.  34:47 You know, I've had health issues, right, I had cancer, and before I was diagnosed, I was like so worried about what I was sounding like and what. You know how the audition went and did. Should I have done it this way? Should I have you know? And then all of a sudden, it was like whoa, like what was I? Like that just didn't seem important anymore. I shouldn't be.  35:09 Why was I so worried about what I sounded like when, in fact, I just, you know, I'm fighting this disease right now, and so it gave me such a license to permit myself to be free. Yeah, just not worry and not have that self-judgmental voice on me all the time. It was an amazing thing that happened to me and unfortunately I mean well, I mean fortunately I'm here and everything's good, you know. So nobody, nobody, has to worry about it. But in reality, it was one of the best things that could have happened for my performance, for my actor, my actor self, was to say what the hell was I so damn worried about? What was I? What was I trying to be? You know what? Just screw it Like, isn't it incredible?  35:47 - Stacia (Guest) how? So empowering? So it's like grief is off. Grief is awful and we all, as humans, live through it and the way that it can have some magical elements and empowerment in it is really incredible. Talking about that and how you're like I don't care, Like I don't. Why am I going to concentrate on what I sound like? That was not a priority.  36:16 - Anne (Host) No, Well, what I sounded like is not a priority anymore.  36:19 - Stacia (Guest) No, no no, it was amazing, because it's like a reminder of who you are, who your soul is Like. You want to connect with people and that's what you do. I love it.  36:29 - Anne (Host) Oh, my God, I'm so excited, so excited for you to join us. So, bosses, make sure that you check out the show notes and I'll have a link to the VO. Boss, or just go right to the VO Boss website.  36:41 - Stacia (Guest) Is it down here? Is it? Should I point to things?  36:45 - Anne (Host) I'll be putting it in the post. So it's on VeoBosscom. You guys check out the events and sign up for Stacia, because it's going to be an amazing class. And, stacia, I just want to say thank you, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for joining us.  36:59 - Stacia (Guest) It was a pleasure.  37:00 - Anne (Host) Yeah, it's been wonderful Really getting really getting to know you even better. I'm so excited.  37:05 - Stacia (Guest) Back at you. You're an incredible interviewer. It's really what a joy.  37:10 - Anne (Host) Thank you Well thank you, I appreciate it. Well, look, bosses. I'm going to give a shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses, like Stacia and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses have an amazing week and we'll see you at Stacia's class right. Yay, in August. I'll be there and we'll be with you next week with another episode. Thanks, so much.  37:33 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a Boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere dive into a lively and often debated topic for voiceover professionals: industry awards. Prompted by Anne's multiple Award nominations, they explore whether these accolades are simply vanity projects or powerful marketing tools. This episode delves into evolving perspectives on awards, the true meaning of a nomination, and practical strategies for leveraging any recognition to propel your voiceover business forward. They emphasize understanding the subjective nature of awards and how to use them for credibility, even beyond winning.   00:40 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with real boss, Tom Dheere. Woo-hoo, hi, Tom Dheere. I feel like there's pomp and circumstance for you, Tom Dheere, because it's that season again. Do you know what season it is? Deer season.  01:00 - Tom (Guest) Get it Tom Dheere, Deer season oh my God, that is really funny actually. That was terrible. It was not funny.  01:04 - Anne (Host) Well, okay, in addition to being deer season, right, it's award season. Woo-hoo, that's right it is award season. And I know there's always there's always always discussions about awards, and I've had discussions about awards before. I think we've probably talked about them before, but let's talk about them again, shall we? Because I think it's an ever-evolving thing and there are some people who are really for awards and some people who really detest awards.  01:32 - Tom (Guest) Yes, the reason why we're having this conversation, Anne, is because you got nominated for how many One Voice Awards.  01:41 - Anne (Host) Five why,thank you.  01:43 - Tom (Guest) Yes.  01:43 - Anne (Host) Why, thank you.  01:46 - Tom (Guest) I'm very excited about that. Wow, this is exciting and it's for all of the amazing work that you have gotten out of your students.  01:54 - Anne (Host) Yeah, for demos. 01:55 - Tom (Guest) That's amazing. Congratulations to you and all of your students. I'm very excited.  01:59 - Anne (Host) Yes, thank you, thank you. I like awards. I am one of those people that I actually endorse awards and I know some people think they're a vanity thing and in reality, for me it's always been about the marketing aspect. Tom, what are your thoughts?  02:15 - Tom (Guest) I used to be part of the anti-awards crew. I thought it was an exercise in vanity. I thought it was a money grab by the voiceover organizations that were hosting the awards, and my thoughts have evolved on the subject. Okay, I'd love to hear that. Well, I really do see now that it is truly a marketing tool and that is okay. All awards in all industries, from the Oscars all the way down to, you know, dog Catcher of the Year, these are all marketing. It's all about marketing. Is it about recognition? Yes. Is it a celebration of the industry in question? Yes. Is it to shine a spotlight on excellence, either from an individual or a group of individuals or a company, or whatever? Yes, is it to shine a spotlight on excellence either from an individual or a group of individuals or a company, or whatever? Yes, all of that is good and it should be supported. Is it an exercise of vanity? Yeah, sure, it's okay. There's nothing wrong with wanting to get dressed up and have people applaud you. There's nothing wrong with that, it's totally cool, it's totally cool.  03:22 - Anne (Host) Any excuse to get dressed up.  03:24 - Tom (Guest) Well, especially as voice actors who are stuck in closets in our pajamas all day,  03:27 - Anne (Host) Exactly exactly.  03:28 For me, it's always been marketing. First, because we have this whole conversation that awards are subjective. Right, I watch the awards, I watch the music awards, I watch the Emmys, the Oscars, I watch them all. Some people just they have so much to say about the awards, but honestly, I enjoy them if there's entertainment involved and I actually feel like it's wonderful when people get recognition that I feel deserve recognition. But of course, there's always the times where you're like I don't know how that person won or I don't know how that person didn't win, and so it is so very subjective and I think, first and foremost, we all need to remember that that is a fact. Right, it is very subjective and if you do not win an award, it has no bearing whatsoever on your worth or your quality at all, absolutely.  04:17 - Tom (Guest) It's interesting because the prism that most people look through all awards through is the Oscars. Right, and it's like Billy Crystal said it's an evening for three hours where millionaires are handing each other gold statues, which is pretty funny and accurate. But here's the thing I just realized about all this is that if you are a member of the Academy the Film Academy and you get your screeners, you know that Daniel Day-Lewis is up for best actor and you're watching the movie, or whatever excerpts of the movie that they sent you for you to cast your vote for him or somebody else.  04:50 - Anne (Host) Right or anybody else in any other category, or if you're not a voter right, you're a person going. Oh, hmm, somebody thinks that movie's credible, maybe I'll go see it. Guess what that resulted in Purchasing right, purchasing right, purchasing a ticket to go see that movie. So marketing, it worked, so marketing.  05:05 - Tom (Guest) But here's the interesting Anne that I just realized when it comes to the One Voice Awards which we both got, I got nominated for a little one, just one, yay, congratulations.  05:13 - Anne (Host) Tom Dheere.  05:13 - Tom (Guest) The commercial category.  05:14 - Anne (Host) Oh, that's right. That's right, Tom, that's awesome.  05:25 - Tom (Guest) So for your performance, but it's really nice. It's just being like, hey. But here's the thing about it is that when you submit, it's my understanding that when they listen to these demos that you help produce or these voiceovers that I did, they don't know who they're listening to.  05:41 - Anne (Host) Yeah, theoretically.  05:43 - Tom (Guest) So it's theoretically, I mean.  05:44 - Anne (Host) In a closed industry. Sometimes, like I know Tom De're listening to yeah, theoretically, so it's theoretically, I mean In a closed industry. Sometimes, like I know Tom Dheere voice.  05:48 - Tom (Guest) Well, that's exactly what I was about to say. I would like if there were three or four or five, if there were five people who were listening to these, I think that maybe two or three of them would probably be like that's Tom.  05:58 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, but they don't talk to one another.  06:01 - Tom (Guest) But they don't talk to one other so it's generally anonymous and it's generally done in isolation.  06:06 - Anne (Host) I can say that for certain because I've been a judge prior.  06:09 - Tom (Guest) Right, oh, okay, so.  06:10 - Anne (Host) I can say for certain that it is closed and that you do not know who the entry is. You don't know who submitted it, right, and it's isolated.  06:18 - Tom (Guest) So for the five lovely voice actors whose demos were nominated that you produced. They didn't know who they were and they didn't know that necessarily that it was you that produced it. I mean, after a while, if you listen to enough demos, you can be like that's a Chuck Duran demo, that's a Nancy Wolfson demo because there's just like styles, there's styles you know what I mean, but for the most part they're not going to know who these voice actors are, who are nominated for any of these or for the demo.  06:43 So I think it's more of a pure. There's a level of purity in it that there isn't in the Oscars, for example.  06:48 - Anne (Host) Yeah, there's a combination for that particular category of not just the demo but the performance in the demo and hopefully, if you have created that demo and produced that demo, that has lent itself to a wonderful performance. And just being nominated, I want to say to anybody out there, just being nominated is a win. It doesn't matter, honestly, if I win, and I've been entering awards for years now. There's been many, many years where I didn't win and so I have to like always talk to myself and talk to my students to make sure that if I don't win it doesn't mean that I'm not worthy, it doesn't mean that that nomination wasn't really a win, because you can still believe it or not, you can market a nomination just like a win.  07:28 - Tom (Guest) Absolutely, and the Oscars— it sounds pretty darn similar. The Oscars do it all the time.  07:32 - Anne (Host) Mm-hmm. Award-nominated versus award-winning.  07:35 - Tom (Guest) Right. Did you ever watch the Secret Life of Walter Mitty?  07:38 - Anne (Host) That's the one that Ben Affleck wrote, and directed and starred in.  07:42 - Tom (Guest) I thought that movie was exceptional and I swore I was going to get all these nominations. It didn't get a one.  07:48 - Anne (Host) And.  07:49 - Tom (Guest) I don't know if it's because they didn't think it was off to snuff, if it was too past the deadline, or if they just chose not to submit it, because that's the other thing. We choose to submit ourselves for these awards. Now for actors in Broadway and television and film. They have their production companies or networks or whatever deciding to do these. Oh, we think these people have the best chance and they still have to pay submission fees as well, application fees for the nominations, just like any other nomination, which I think is-.  08:16 - Anne (Host) Well, there's a cost to running an award show. There's a cost to having people judge the awards. There's a cost for people's time, absolutely. So paying to enter yourself into an awards is. I don't find anything necessarily wrong about that.  08:33 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) No.  08:33 - Tom (Guest) Maybe how much you pay, I don't know I mean if it's a for-profit scheme, then you know, okay, I mean people who organize awards. Should they or do they deserve to make a profit, Like I don't know if, like the Oscars, if that's a nonprofit situation where they don't make any money off of it, they just want to celebrate the industry and recognize people for it, and they don't make a dime. And they make the fees just enough to cover the cost to produce the show and print and, you know, make the gold statues.  08:59 - Anne (Host) Well, it becomes a marketing effort for the venue. It becomes a marketing effort for the people who put stuff in the swag bags. It becomes a marketing effort for so many things really. And it's like it's not always obvious, but in reality it really does lend itself to marketing quite a bit.  09:17 - Tom (Guest) One of the other questions. One of the anti-award swath of the voiceover industry says winning award isn't going to book you more work. And for the Oscars? We know that's not true, because when actors or actresses win an Oscar, they get a lot more scripts on their desk. They've all said that they just get more acting opportunities. So in that context it's 100% true. Is it true for voice actors? I'd say it probably isn't, because your typical explainer video production company has never heard of the One Voice Awards. But that's not the reason that you do it. But yeah.  09:52 - Anne (Host) However, let's just go beyond it, because if you market yourself as an award-nominated voice actor or an award-winning voice actor, right, if somebody happens to find you or find your website, right, it lends some credibility. I believe it lends some credibility to who you are. So if I'm a person and I don't know the voices and I have two equal voices that I like if I see that one has won an award or has a history of winning awards or being nominated for awards, I'm going to feel like, oh, maybe they've been in business a little bit longer, maybe they're considered by others to be top of their field, and so I would maybe sway toward an award nominated or award winning. And again, it really depends on how people, given equal circumstances, award winning, award nominated versus maybe not.  10:42 - Tom (Guest) I think that's a very fair point. Now, where my mind was going where Tom Dheere, the VO strategist, business and marketing guy, was going is what's the SEO value of?  10:53 - Anne (Host) the terms award-winning.  10:55 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Like how is that what's the?  10:56 - Tom (Guest) score. Yeah, what's the keyword score? You know what I mean. So actually, I want to make a note of that. I want to look that up when we get off of this.  11:03 - Anne (Host) I'll tell you, when I look for a company to purchase from right, what's the criteria? I want to make sure that that company's been in business for a while. I want to make sure that they put out a quality product and I want to know that there's testimonials of other people who have used that product that are actually saying yes, it helped me, it was wonderful, it was quick and painless. And think about that. This could be right. Anybody who might have won an award and has testimonials on their website. Right, If you've award winning, then that gives it a little bit of credibility that maybe other people have listened to this person. They're definitely a professional in the industry, right? You don't submit for an award unless you're a professional, so sometimes you just don't know who you're working with. It can help people, I think, to get to know you a little bit better, or really, I think, put that credibility forward first when people are making a buying decision.  11:58 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, I mean, and now that I'm thinking about it as we're talking about it, what's a better testimonial than an award nomination? Right, yeah, I mean, and now that I'm thinking about it as we're talking about it, what's a better testimonial than an award nomination?  12:04 - Anne (Host) Right, yeah, I mean really.  12:06 - Tom (Guest) Right, what's a better endorsement?  12:07 - Anne (Host) That was kind of my point right, it's a wonderful way. So if I buy because of they've been in business, they're not going to just go out of business and take my money and steal it. They're credible, right? They have a good product, right? Well, if they're award nominated, award-winning, that lends me to think that when I look for a beauty product, hello, I'm going to go back to you know award-winning award-winning formulas.  12:28 If I have no knowledge whatsoever of the product, right, I'm going to tend to look there first and after I look there, right, I'm going to look for it. Actually, if I do my shopping on Amazon or I do shopping on anything, right, I'm looking for the number of stars, the ratings, right, A lot of times they go hand in hand. Right Ratings and reviews.  12:46 Ratings and reviews and so award nominated best beauty product of 2024 by Elle magazine, that kind of thing. That kind of means something to me. I'm like, well, somebody did their research right and so therefore, if it's talking about a voice talent that's award-nominated and award-winning, I would feel like, oh okay, maybe there's some credibility there. Now I can go ahead and listen. Let me listen to the voice and see if it's something that I want.  13:10 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, yeah. And of course the capitalist in me thinks oh and if you're an award-winning voice actor, maybe you can charge more.  13:18 - Anne (Host) Well, I right, that's very true, but I also know like if people come to me for a demo, right, they're like I want to win an award. I always try to say to them well, that shouldn't be like I really have people say that to me.  13:28 That shouldn't be the goal. However, they're like I want an award-winning demo. What are they saying to me? They're saying to me that they want the absolute best demo that is valued by the community or valued by others in the community. So they want a valuable product. That's what they're saying to me and I'll kind of say, well, okay, I don't design demos to win an award. However, I want to design a demo to get you work right and if it wins an award, that's a great bonus. And they're like yeah, I know, but I still want an award winning right? People will say that to me, so it's kind of human nature, I think, to want to lean toward a product that is award-winning.  14:05 - Tom (Guest) Right, Because nobody says I want to eat something that's been not approved by the FDA. Yeah right, Exactly, I will never. I will eat at no restaurant that's ever won a Michelin star. I refuse, it's like no, that's ridiculous.  14:17 - Anne (Host) Because it's not just the recognition, it's what the recognition represents. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely so. For me that's where the awards have always sat and I did have issues for years until I explained to my students who I said I think you should enter this into the awards. I will always say, hey look, I think it's an award worthy product, right. And so they're like oh really, and that gives them like a sense of worth or a sense of like pride. Hopefully I wouldn't say it if I didn't think it had a chance of getting some recognition.  14:52 So if I say that to someone, then I've given them a sense of accomplishment, I'm giving them confidence in their product so that they can then represent themselves and sell it better, and that's basically how that'll work. But I will always explain to them look, if you do not win, remember awards are very, very subjective. There have been some amazing, just like there have been some amazing movies that didn't win the best picture of the year. There have been some amazing actors that have not won best actor or best actress, and so you know, you have to really make yourself aware, even though in your heart you might be disappointed if you don't win right or don't get nominated. But you do have to realize that it is very, very subjective especially if you've got an award show that it doesn't cost anything to enter. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. You're not losing out on anything really by submitting.  15:46 - Tom (Guest) I mean, take a chance. It's like playing the lottery, right. Take a chance, Absolutely. So, with all that in mind, what do you do from a marketing stance? And I've got my own ideas too, about how we could tell VO bosses. You've got a thing, whether it's a spot that I did for a college or if there's a demo that you produce with a student.  15:59 - Anne (Host) What are the?  16:00 - Tom (Guest) steps to use it, to use the award, nomination and hopefully the win, as a marketing tool.  16:05 - Anne (Host) Well, absolutely put it on your website right.  16:08 Absolutely throw it on YouTube, put it on your website. Label it as being award nominated, award winning, like. Make sure the text is in there, because that's SEO value. Make sure that it's on your website, make sure that it's on every single profile, make sure that it's in every single description, make sure that it's literally like SEO optimized. And then make sure that wherever you're describing it as an award nominated, right, award winning entry or whatever that might be, make sure that you're also giving information about the industry that you're in best performance voice actor, corporate narration, right or whatever, or best performance demo, reel, animation so it then allocates the other words that are important. So when people are searching for animation, voice, right and then all of a sudden, this will come up, as I'm so excited that my award-winning entry or award-nominated entry or whatever if something comes up or shows up in their search, that's going to lend its credibility and also hopefully lead to your website so that they can then inquire further or get an audition from you or find out more and contact you.  17:14 - Tom (Guest) Yes, I'll layer on top of that, like, for example, when I found out I got my One Voice nomination, I wrote a blog about it.  17:22 - Anne (Host) Yep, that's wonderful.  17:24 - Tom (Guest) So what that does is a number of things. Every time that you write a blog, you publish a blog, it adds another page to your website and All of the content on that particular website is saying voice over, this voice acting, that voice talent, this voice artist, that. So it's got all of the keywords that would further enrich the search engine optimization of your website, to make it more searchable and for it to rank higher. So just writing about it is extremely important on a technical SEO level. However, you don't want to turn it into a self-aggrandizing. Oh, look at me. It could be about a number of things.  18:05 - Anne (Host) It could be about the company that created the one voice in this situation, or about the company that you voiced for.  18:11 - Tom (Guest) Or about the company that you voiced for exactly. So a couple years ago I got a one voice nomination for a public service announcement I did for the Humane Society. Remember those 4,000 beagles were rescued from a lab in Virginia. A few years ago.  18:25 And then the American Humane Society got all 4,000 beagles adopted. So I auditioned and booked the voiceover for the public service announcement announcing that all 4,000 beagles were adopted. So when I blogged a few years ago back then about hey, I got this award nomination, it wasn't about the award, it wasn't about the nomination, it wasn't about me, it was about bringing awareness, it was about the beagle puppies. That's what it was about. I made it about the puppies.  18:53 - Anne (Host) And that's wonderful, because what's a better draw than animals, your fur babies, right?  18:59 - Tom (Guest) Yes.  19:02 - Anne (Host) Which is I lead all my award nominations with my cats there you go.  19:04 But that's an actual great idea, like somehow, let's just say, my Bengal Manx mix Sebastian, who everybody's gotten to know because they have their own Facebook and Instagram and TikTok right. So we could just say, oh, they're in my studio listening and then all of a sudden you can silently incorporate or just in the back end, incorporate that performance or that particular working on a demo for blah blah, blah blah blah For me on my website, because I advertise that I do demo production. Under the demo page, the landing page, I have all the awards and nominations that I've ever done and received, and for the VO Boss, because we've won awards for the VO Boss podcast and nominations. I also have it on my VO Boss website as well, as well as writing a blog on VO Boss about it. So absolutely trying to garner an award-winning podcast.  19:49 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, the other thing that I do is I make sure that I reached out to the production company that cast me for it, so my nomination this time was for North Idaho. College just a real tiny, tiny little postage stamp-sized college in the Northwest of our country and that one got nominated and it's a great. It's a great ad. It's beautifully shot, the editing is just superb. The music is perfect. You know, I'm probably the worst thing about the whole thing.  20:16 - Anne (Host) I love how generous you are. I think that's the way you need to approach it. They could just break apart and say it's your voice, but in reality, when you're presenting a product or a piece for an award, it's the whole darn shebang. If you think about it, that helps with that presentation. It's the media, the music behind it, the voice. It's all like a beautiful symphony in reality.  20:36 And so paying it forward and having gratitude for the other parts of it that helped you to win that award or that nomination, I think is a wonderful way to not appear to make it like a vanity thing, because you're showing appreciation for all of the components that help make it happen. I mean, whenever I make an announcement by the way, the other thing that I do to market is on social media, right so I'm highlighting the demo clients of mine that their voice has been nominated, and I'm also giving thanks to my audio engineer and in reality, it's like I could not have done it without you, to be quite honest, and so that then lends it to be a little less vanity ridden or sounding, I should say.  21:16 - Tom (Guest) Right, I mean in the Oscar Awards, do they go up there, accept the award, thank themselves and then get off the stage?  21:21 - Anne (Host) No, they're always thanking the people that helped them make it possible, really Exactly Also just from a technical and SEO perspective.  21:28 - Tom (Guest) Another reason why I like to let the production company know is because now they have the opportunity to use this nomination as marketing fodder for their own campaigns on their website and social media and newsletters and things like that.  21:43 So it's just paying it forward also on a marketing level. So the production company just has because all the voice seekers are as desperate to come up with quality content to put on their website and social media and their communications as us voice actors are. So to give them saying, hey, here's a free nugget of marketing gold that you can go do something with it helps everybody.  22:05 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. I actually got a statue. I got one of the awards for one of my partners on the podcast and shipped it. When I won this podcast I'm trying to think a couple years ago I also ordered an award for the person that I interviewed on that show and I shipped it, and that was actually for Alex Srdjak from Respeecher, so I shipped it to. Ukraine.  22:27 So I literally and that's how grateful I was. And it was really cool because when he received it, of course, what did he do? He took a picture of it with him, right, and then he used it for his own marketing, which I thought was really wonderful. So it kind of was like it all works for everybody involved.  22:42 - Tom (Guest) See, haters. There are so many great things about a voiceover award nomination and a win. There's so many great things that you can do, not just for yourself, but for the people that made the nomination possible.  22:53 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. You know what do you say to the haters? I mean you don't have to enter and you don't have to watch. I mean you don't have to enter and you don't have to watch awards and you don't have to participate. If you don't agree with it, that's completely fine. It's completely fine in reality, but for those that do, there's value to it beyond the award. Really, it's beyond the award and, like I said, even if you don't get nominated, if your coach or somebody says you should submit that for an award, consider that a win. Really. If you have a colleague that listens to this and say, oh my God, that was amazing, you should submit that. Right, there is an award for confidence, for somebody believing in you and believing in your work and thinking that it is worthy of an award, and that, to me, is a win right there.  23:36 - Tom (Guest) Absolutely.  23:37 - Anne (Host) So good stuff. Tom Dheere, Congrats on your noms.  23:42 - Tom (Guest) Congrats on your noms.  23:43 - Anne (Host) Yeah, thank you. And bosses out there, utilize this for good, for marketing efforts. And even if you just want to submit your work to your colleague and say, what do you think right, consider that your award submission for a job well done. And if you don't win, don't let it affect you. It has nothing to do with your worthiness, with your performance. It basically is something that you know. What if you don't win, try, try again. What is it If you don't?  24:09 - Tom (Guest) If at first you don't succeed try, try again.  24:12 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, well, if you don't win, try, try again. That's what I say. I always think there's something good in a little bit of competition, right? That keeps us motivated and keeps us inspired to want to be better and do better. So allow that to help you further your career. So, whether or not you win an award, allow it to inspire and motivate you. So good stuff. All right, Tom, thank you so much. I'm gonna give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and be award-winning bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Tom, thank you so much, and bosses have an amazing week.  24:54 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) We'll see you next time. Bye, join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipdtl.   

BOSSes, are you ready to nail those voiceover auditions? In this episode of the VO Boss podcast, Anne Ganguzza talks with special guest Kelly Moscinski, owner and head of casting at The VoiceCaster. Kelly, who oversees thousands of auditions, reveals what truly stands out to casting directors and how you can stop being predictable to book more jobs. Get ready to transform your approach to commercial auditions with invaluable insights straight from the source!   00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguzza Productions, I specialize in target marketed coaching and demo production that gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at anneganguzza.com.  00:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a vo boss. Now let's welcome your host and gang guza hey everyone, welcome to the vo boss podcast.  00:44 - Anne (Host) I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am thrilled to welcome very special guest, Kelly Moscinski. Kelly, the owner and head of casting at the Voice Caster, which, very impressively, is the oldest voiceover casting house in the country, established in 1975. So, with almost 20 years of experience in voiceover and even more in entertainment, Kelly casts and directs all things voiceover. She's also a coach for voice actors, teaching group classes, private coaching, and I am so excited that she's going to be teaching a VO Boss workshop coming up on July 16th, which I am super excited for. She is also the founder of the VoiceCaster Lab, a digital VO training and community platform offering a variety of learn-at-your-own-pace courses, seminars, a membership community and other resources dedicated to giving voiceover artists the chance to learn from the casting perspective, which is so, so important. Kelly, it is absolutely wonderful to have you here today. Thank you so much.  01:43 - Kelly (Guest) Thank you so much for having me.  01:45 - Anne (Host) I am just excited to chat with you. It's been I feel like it's been not so long ago that I saw you, but, like we always, we're like we kind of just pass each other because we're always like on these schedules which are insanely busy, and I always think that you know, I think I'm pretty busy in this industry, but my goodness, you're doing an awful lot over there at the Voice Caster with your classes and you've got all sorts of fun new things that I've seen you come out with this year. So for the bosses who are not familiar with you, let's let's kind of start at the beginning and tell us a little bit about how you got started in the industry and your casting journey. What led you to the voice caster?  02:24 - Kelly (Guest) For me it was, you know I did. I did drama club, you know theater in high school. When I went to college I originally went to school for pre-med. I wanted to be a psychiatrist, so I was focusing on psychology and then from there it was just. I was so involved in the theater department and eventually, after, after a little hesitation, I decided to get my degree in theater instead of following the pre-med path I had.  02:51 And then I got my master's degree in writing and you know it was kind of while I was working on that that you know I had friends. I was doing a ton of directing. So I just had some friends who were like working at local radio and TV stations. They'd ask me for advice on an actor. You know I need this kind of a voice for a spot, you know. So I was starting to do some voiceover before I even really realized what I was getting into. And then I moved out to Los Angeles and you know I had actually interviewed in the same week at voice caster and at a talent agency the same week at VoiceCaster and at a talent agency. Talent agency wanted to bring me on as an agent and VoiceCaster wanted me to come on as a casting assistant and I was like you know what I feel like casting is my calling. You know, I get to, I get to cast, I get to direct. You know there were opportunities to teach. You know, like, all of the things I wanted were kind of all in one with VoiceCaster. And, you know, as soon as I walked into the office, I was like, yeah, this is home. And so I kind of knew right away. And then that was in 2009.  03:55 In 2013, the previous owner, huck Liggett, came to me and said I'm retiring, I'm gone in two weeks. Do you want to take over? I've had other offers. Yeah, he's like. I had other offers, a lot of money, he's like, but I don't want just anyone to take over. Wow, and so he's like, if you don't want it, we're closing down the doors. Wow, yeah.  04:20 - Anne (Host) And wow, what a compliment.  04:22 - Kelly (Guest) That's amazing, wow, yeah yeah, and it's funny because I actually had just gotten back from a week vacation when he came to me on that Monday and like he's like pulled me aside. I thought I was getting fired, I was like oh no, what's going on?  04:36 Like what did I do?  04:37 What happened while I was gone? It was only a week. Who knew it was going to be the next big step in my career? And yeah, so, within, within within two weeks, I took over completely, so it was a very quick transition but, like I said, as soon as my foot stepped in that office, I just knew that this is where I was going to going to be.  04:59 - Anne (Host) You know it's, isn't that? Isn't that funny. It's like when you step into a home, when you're buying a home, and all of a sudden you're like, oh yeah, this is it. I have so many questions because you seem to just go from like, oh, I went to school for, and then I went into education and then went into voiceover and did you get any pushback from people in your life that said, hey, it's obvious that you have multiple talents, and there's always those people, kind of the naysayers, that are like, really Like theater or the arts. There's always those people, that kind of the naysayers that are like really like, yeah, theater, or you know the arts. And so tell us, did you have any pushback from, let's say, you know, family members or loved ones about that?  05:53 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. You know, it's one of those things where I I originally was like, oh, I can't just go into theater, so maybe I can, maybe I can teach theater. So I decided to take the education track, kind of in between that and within like three semesters, I think I I basically I had all of the classes I had needed for an education degree. I just never did the student teaching, so I could have gotten my education degree as well. But instead I was like no, I just I want to commit to this, this is all I can see myself doing. So why? Why have the plan B? You know, it's like when you have plan B, you fall back on plan B and it's like I don't, I'm not, yeah, that's it.  06:36 - Anne (Host) That's a really, that's a really great perspective.  06:38 I like that Because you, you felt it and I think you and you went for it and that's that's so.  06:45 I love that because I feel like I'm kind of that person too, like, if you feel so strongly about it, I feel like, well, that's where I'm supposed to be and that's where I should be, and I feel like my work ethic was there to drive it to the place where it needed to be. And I think a lot of times I never second guess my work, my intuition, my gut feeling I feel like that might be the same thing for you, absolutely, absolutely. So then, along the way right to becoming like, first of all, to have someone say to you I'm going to close the doors if you don't take over First of all, that's what a compliment. And and so obviously I mean there was, there's just a ton of talent there, did you have? Have? It sounds like you had no hardships a long way, but I feel like you might have, like I definitely did so tell us about maybe you know a hardship or something that was a challenge for you.  07:42 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, yeah. So I mean, first of all it was, you know, through through college my dad was battling leukemia and so it's like he was actually in a hospital in the same city that I was going to school, and so you know I was going over there every day before rehearsals, after classes, you know, anytime I could kind of sneak in, I would go over to the hospital and see him.  08:05 You know, and it's like he couldn't come to my graduation, he couldn't come to some of our shows because just too many people. And you know, and it's like he couldn't come to my graduation, he couldn't come to some of our shows because just too many people. And you know, when you're going through cancer treatments you have to be careful of that Part of I stuck around to get my master's degree. I think I would have probably left after my bachelor's degree, but I stuck around to get my master's degree. I started dating my now husband and so I was like I guess I'll stick around for this guy, I'll stick around for my family, you know.  08:33 And I was originally going to go to New York because I wanted to work in the Broadway world, you know. And then he actually convinced me, my husband, travis, convinced me to come to LA. So we moved to LA with nothing and it took me. I sent out back in the day when you send out, you know, cover letters and resumes through the mail.  08:54 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I remember those days, Not email.  08:56 - Kelly (Guest) I do remember those days I sent out over 350 just different casting offices, talent agencies, knowing like this is where I want to be and I can be a very determined person. It can be challenging and, you know, it's like we went through all of our savings, like we had nothing. And it was very much one of those things where I'm like okay, I took a theater job here, I took another job here. It's like I started to work, you know, retail customer service it lasted about three days and then a theater job, you know, and then a theater job fell in my lap.  09:33 They weren't willing to work with my theater hours, so I was like, well, I'm going to take the lower paying job because it's what I want to do. And that's actually how I met Catherine originally, and you know so it's like I was just taking all these things that I could stage, managing, you know things like that. It was like we have to do something to make money and it's like sure, luckily, you know, my husband was like he does construction as well. So he ended up working for a couple of TV shows where he was building sets. And then Huck called and he was like I have been hanging on to your resume since I got it last June and just waiting for an opening. So it's like he kind of knew this was perfect.  10:13 It came at the perfect timing. You know, it's one of those things where I'm like I always feel like things fall into place exactly when they're supposed to. You know, when they're supposed to, we yeah, we were in that limbo of like are we really going to make it here? You know, like we're going to have to start borrowing money from family or something soon. Like what, what are we doing? Like this is crazy. So yeah, then, then you know, voice caster fell into place and there's that determination.  10:43 - Anne (Host) I think that that came through. Yes, yeah, that's so interesting because I mean I have a little bit of a similar story when we moved out west, I mean from the East Coast, and you know, we moved out for a job for my husband and ultimately, nine months later, he got, like you know, he got laid off. And so then everybody said, well, when are you coming back? And I'm like, no, no, no. And I was like, oh, by the way, I quit my job in education and said, oh, I'm going to try to do this voiceover thing full time. So, Jerry, you're going to have to, like you know, float me for a little bit. And, interestingly enough, we just determination. I was like I am not going back because I love the weather too much and I really was starting to love.  11:23 California, I was like I don't want to go back to the snow and the property taxes, but I did love the East Coast but yeah, and it was like I was just determined to make that work. So, yeah, good for you. I mean wow. And so let's talk a little bit about casting and your love for casting and you said in your bio connection beats perfection every time. I'd love to hear you elaborate on that in terms of, you know, casting either a voice talent or just any kind of talent.  11:58 - Kelly (Guest) Honestly, that is kind of my theory in life. You know, I mean it's in voiceover, it is just in life. You know, it's one of those things where so often I feel like we all strive for some sort of level of perfection. I'm guilty.  12:13 - Anne (Host) Yeah.  12:13 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Oh, me too.  12:14 - Kelly (Guest) Me too, and it's something that we set for ourselves. You know, it's like we set this bar for ourselves. Nobody else is telling us what perfect means, you know. So it's like we're putting these things on ourselves. And you know, it is one of those things where I always say 70% perfect is perfect. It does not have to be perfect. You know, done is better than perfect. Connection over perfection is my way of saying. I would much rather hear you connected to the script and connected, having a point of view, having an intention having an audience.  12:56 All of that versus every word being perfectly articulate. A few weeks ago I actually just I cast somebody in in a in a. It was a commercial and she actually slurred a word. Most people wouldn't even submit that audition, right, it's like Ooh, I got to clean that up. No, it was one of those things where so often now I am hearing clients say we want to hear the humanness, we want to hear the imperfections, we want to hear the flaws. So it's not about being perfect. They'll make you perfect in the session If you want to book the job. It is more about having that connection and that's something that we can hear in those first three to five seconds that we listen to.  13:30 - Anne (Host) Oh gosh, yes, I love that and I love that you say that, because I mean I always in my, in my, in my genres that I'm that I'm kind of known for in corporate narration and e-learning everybody thinks articulation is, you know, they have to say it perfectly. I'm like, please don't, because that's super robotic and super boring and it just it's not something that that people like to listen to for any length of time, maybe for a few words. I can handle it if you do something articulately. But I'm that teacher that will say, please, I mean, don't. I mean I just need to understand you, but you know, slur it a little bit, like jam those words together.  14:06 I don't, I don't need to hear perfection at all. As a matter of fact, please don't. I just I can't, I can't listen to more than a sentence of it. And so I love that you say that as well, because I think really and you also, you know, talked about hearing that from the very beginning, like from the first words of the script you can hear it if somebody is not connected and you can hear it if they're just kind of glossing over the words or reading the words. Let's talk a little bit more about that the importance of, because in in our workshop, which I'm going to have you talk about in just a minute, I mean it's all about auditioning for your, for commercial genres, and so what is it that gets listened to? What is it that that books the gig or gets them shortlisted?  14:47 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, it comes down to personality. It comes down to you know? Do they sound like they have an opinion? Do they sound like they're connected to the copy? Is there something else going on besides? I'm reading a commercial script. You know so. We hear so many commercials. You know we have all heard thousands and thousands of commercials that when we look at a script, we know what it's going to sound like. Yes, it's like there's a melody in our head that we play. Oh, it's such a battle then to get out of it, yeah.  15:16 But really like that's not the read, that's going to book the job right it's going to be the thing that is just uniquely you, where it's like oh wow, the final spot would never be like that, but you showed the personality, you made the choices, you had the commitment and that is what stands out. That's what books you the job. And then you get into the session and that's when they're like okay, well, let's clean this up, let's smooth this out, let's inflict, and all of a sudden it sounds exactly like you heard in your head, but you will not book the job if you give that read.  15:47 - Anne (Host) Because it's boring. Can we just? Let's just say that one more time for the bosses out there, Because I've had so many students say, but that's not what I hear and I'm like, but that's not what I'm teaching. I'm teaching you to audition and get the job first, and then whatever happens happens. I mean you don't need me as a coach to tell you what it sounds like in your head. We all hear it and I think we all innately know what that melody is and you don't need me to coach you, but you need me to coach you how to be an actor so that you can get the job. And then ultimately I love that you said it does A lot of times it will end up sounding like what we heard in our head. But to get the job you've got to show the people that are listening, or at least get their attention, because everybody else hears that same melody in their head. And if you're listening, tell us what it's like to listen to 200 auditions in a row with the same melody, with everybody just being predictable. I think it's the person that you know.  16:42 And let's talk a little bit more about point of view, because I think sometimes people don't understand what point of view means, and especially when it comes to commercial. Well, shouldn't I have a point of view, that is, of the company that I'm working for? Or how do I have my own point of view, and why does that matter? And so people would ask me that as well. Why should I have a point of view when it comes to e-learning? Why should I have a point of view when it comes to corporate? Why should I have a point of view for an explainer? Let's talk about point of view.  17:07 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, so point of view. There's a few different parts to it. So first of all there is. You know what point of view are you coming from? Are you coming from the company point of?  17:18 - Anne (Host) view.  17:18 - Kelly (Guest) Are you the pro? Are you the expert? Do you know what you're talking about? I can tell you that you know for certain products, you have to be a certain level of expert on the product, otherwise, you know, how are we going to trust you?  17:33 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) when you're talking about.  17:34 - Kelly (Guest) You know medical or pharmaceutical, or you know something like that, where it's like we need to be able to trust you. However, there's also the other side, where it's you are the user. Did you just discover this and you're excited to share it, or have you been using it for a little bit and you want to share it with your friend or you know? So it's like you can either be the expert or you can be the real life user of the product. So usually, especially if we're sticking into the conversational zone, then you're going to want to be the user. You don't want to, even if the script says our product blah, blah, blah, or we do this, blah, blah, blah or we do this, like when it's very clearly from the brand point of view, you still need to. Your point of view should still be more personal than that.  18:16 - Anne (Host) Exactly.  18:22 - Kelly (Guest) You know the product, you love the product, but also having an opinion, you know, and it's like not just the anticipated opinion or the typical opinion, it right. It's like if there's something in the script that is like, wow, this is really cool, like then let us hear how cool you think, that is Like that's something that's going to stand out. It's going to be different when other people do. You know, it's like so many commercials they have three product features, right, and so it's like some people say, oh, we'll build each of those or give each one a little bit of a different. You know coloring or you know things like that. And it's like my thing is which is your favorite? Yeah, absolutely, tell me which one is your favorite.  19:03 - Anne (Host) That's going to stick with me more than anything else from a company standpoint, unless you're in some sort of a parody or a character dialogue right where you're going to be angry about it or you're going to be mad about it, or you're going to be crying about it or you won't like it. Right, for the most part, you have to come from that place of authority. You have to like the product, you have to believe in it, and I think that's where the shades of the point of view of you can come through. That and you can make that choice. Like I like how you said, like some people will be like OK, there's different shades of your point of view for different features, but I think as an actor, you make that choice. You make that choice about what do you think is a little bit more important than the other. Not that they're not you know, features are not important but like, maybe one you like a little bit better than the other. No-transcript, no-transcript in front of you, I think.  20:15 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, yeah.  20:16 - Anne (Host) Point of view, I think is so, so important, and especially coming in with a point of view in the first few words or the first line. And so let me ask you, out of so many auditions that you would get, how often do you listen to the entire audition, do you? I mean, can you just yeah, like you know right?  20:34 - Kelly (Guest) away, I know. So everybody gets about three to five seconds, you know, and that is also why I say like lead, lead with your riskier, take your bolder take the one with the personality, because you only get three to five seconds. You know, on any given project, I have usually between 400 and 1200 auditions.  20:53 - Anne (Host) Wow, that's a lot it gets crazy.  20:56 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, yeah. So it's like I can't give people more than three to five seconds. So then from there I'm sorting all of the auditions. Once I narrow it down, then I will look at the people that I, you know, passed on to the second round, and usually by that point I have like 100 left, maybe 150.  21:13 - Anne (Host) Wow, and then I will listen to. I'm just thinking. I'm taking the lower number right 400 auditions and you give them five seconds a piece. How long is that I mean? How long does it take you to? You know what I mean? Is it a day? What does that break down to? Hours?  21:27 - Kelly (Guest) Start to finish in a project like that, I mean I can. There are some projects I mean on the lower end. It's like I can knock them out in a couple hours. Yeah, yeah yeah, so that's a lot to listen to in a couple hours.  21:38 - Anne (Host) Yes, so that's why leading with the riskier one, leading with the one that is even. Sometimes I'll even say it's got to be a different melody.  21:52 - Kelly (Guest) But I don't want you to think about it as a melody, right? Think about it as a different point of view that drives the fact that it sounds different. Yeah, yeah, you emphasize a different word because you have a different intention on that take, or you know, yeah, things like that and I love that.  21:59 - Anne (Host) you said like I. Actually, you said that there was a slur on somebody that you cast. And the funny thing is is I have a favorite corporate corporate video that I play when I speak at places and I talk about corporate and how it really is storytelling. And one of my favorite corporate videos is voiced by an artist that has a rasp and a lisp and she slurs her words a little bit and it's the most beautiful take because her point of view is nuanced and it actually brings you along this journey throughout this two minute, this two minute video, and you don't even have to watch the this two minute, this two minute video. And you don't even have to watch the video, you can just listen to it.  22:38 It's so nuanced that I thought to myself gosh, I usually will give somebody the script and I'll say well, this, this is super easy to just say conversationally, right, but she had so many different notes of so many different points of view that she just really told the story and I think that that is the most important thing. And when it comes to commercials, let's talk about stories in commercials. Are you a believer that every commercial has a story to tell?  23:07 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, yeah, you know it's one of those things where it's like there is the commercials happening because there is something either new or improved right, so it's like there's always a problem and solution. And so, you know, the problem is because things are happening to real people, so it really is figuring out the story and that's why, you know, having that point of view, but also an intention you know, your intention is obviously not to sell, right? I mean, of course it is, it's a commercial.  23:36 - Anne (Host) But I have to sound like you're selling.  23:37 - Kelly (Guest) Exactly, exactly. You're either getting them excited or you're reassuring them, or you're informing someone, or you know there's so many different things that you can play that are not to sell. But yeah, it's absolutely telling that story. You know, even even in the short scripts, you know there's still something behind that.  23:55 And part of your job as an actor is what is that? What is that pre life? You know, it's like I always say a commercial should be thought of like a slice of life. It is mid conversation. Something is happening before this that prompted you to say this to somebody. Something is going to happen after this.  24:12 - Anne (Host) And there's pre life, I think, for every genre. Somebody, something is going to happen after this. And there's pre-life, I think, for every genre for every script really Absolutely.  24:17 And I think there's pre-life also which I try to teach, because if I'm doing longer format narration, you can't forget about life in the middle of the script or life three quarters of the way through the script, because a lot of times people will just slip back into that kind of melody and it's really hard to keep someone engaged. I mean, you think it's hard to keep someone engaged for 60 seconds, right? I mean, try to keep them engaged for a couple of minutes and that is. I think that the pre-life can happen before many sentences in that script and I think that it's important to consider that as you go through the script, that it's important to consider that as you go through the script. So what would you say is the biggest mistake that voice actors make in their auditions?  25:07 - Kelly (Guest) Either just is an immediate dismissal or sometimes angers you. So two things come to mind. First thing is labeling following the instructions. First thing is labeling following the instructions. Like it sounds so basic, but out of 400 auditions I'll usually have at least 20 or 30 who aren't even labeled correctly. So I don't even give, I don't even give them five seconds, they just instantly are like nope, I'm done. They couldn't follow instructions. So that's number one.  25:30 - Anne (Host) Isn't that funny. That's your number one.  25:31 - Kelly (Guest) I know, I know.  25:34 - Anne (Host) Yeah, follow instructions. I'm like that too. I'm like my God, if you can't even name it right, yeah, yeah, because that's. I feel like I will take that as a personal insult to my time, because I literally, if I can't 400, you said 400 to a thousand. Yeah, oh, my goodness, I can't imagine, like, handling a thousand files and if they're not named correctly, right, and you can't like organ. I mean, it's so, organization is so important when it comes to, you know, figuring out who am I, you know, who do I like? Here's my shortlist, here's, you know, who are you going to recommend? And I think, yeah, file naming is so, so darn important, and I don't understand why it's so difficult sometimes that's how I am too.  26:17 - Kelly (Guest) I'm like oh, I try to keep it so simple in our instructions.  26:20 - Anne (Host) you know and you know but okay, so file naming is one, what's another, what's another?  26:25 - Kelly (Guest) The other one is trying to be who you think we want you to be, giving us the read that you think is the right read or the read that we want, I will tell you that we don't know what we want. The client doesn't know what they want. It's like they might have an idea, but sometimes they hear something different and they're like oh, that's brilliant, and so don't try to be what you think we want you to be. You have to be yourself, because what we want is you as you are you?  26:57 - Anne (Host) know authentic unapologetically, you and I think sometimes would you say that the creative process is not complete yet. A lot of times we think we're the last, we're the last to be hired. And so I feel sometimes when people are like, well, I didn't expect that, you know, I auditioned for that and I did not expect that one to book the job, when I feel like, even if the casting specs, if it's something completely different than the casting specs, so would you say that if somebody writes the casting specs nine times out of 10, does it turn out to be different than what they're looking for?  27:28 - Kelly (Guest) or yeah, or some variation of it, because you know, you've seen the specs where they're like, oh, we want it really like mellow and laid back, but it has to have high energy and be upbeat. And it's like, you know, the specs contradict each other and so it's like, well then, what do they want? Typically, that's because there are multiple people in these meetings and it's like, oh okay, one person wants it laid back and mellow, another wants it upbeat, with high energy, and so those get kind of mushed into one. So that's kind of you know, you don't know what they want, because there are six people deciding and they all want different things.  28:05 - Anne (Host) Ah, yeah, right, so it's not always just one person that's deciding. And let's talk about the copywriting, because there's a lot of times when the copywriting doesn't match what the specs really want, like, they'll say, conversational, but yet the writing will be very silly. And so what? What is your best advice for voice actors in that case?  28:27 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, so a couple of things. First of all, I always recommend recording a couple of takes before you even look at the specs. You know. So it's like you do whatever, whatever your instinct is, and then look at the specs and see you know how that changes. That might be a different take, it might be you scrap all the other stuff you know all together.  28:48 But it is tricky when it is written as an announcer script introducing the all new blah, blah, blah, you know, and it's like, oh, but we want it conversational, super casual you know. So it is a matter of you know. I always say subtext first of all, so instead of introducing, it's like hey, check this out, or you know kind of substituting that in your mind Making sure I think the biggest thing when they're asking for conversational authentic is making sure that you are still connecting, you still have that point of view.  29:20 You still have that intention. It's really easy to lose when you have a word like introducing or something that's very selly.  29:29 So it's kind of, you know, still keeping that story, keeping all of the, the acting elements in there is key. And then if you find like, ah, I can't get out of this, it's just sounding so silly, it's sounding so announcer-y, then honestly lean into that and do a take or two like that, because then you have it out, you have it there and you're not fighting yourself. So it's a little easier, once you get that out, to then try to try to just bring it in a little bit more and personalize.  29:59 - Anne (Host) Would you, would you then recommend to maybe have that take as the second take? Yeah, like, and if you are encouraging people to do more than one take per audition, absolutely.  30:10 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, if it's your only take to send, I wouldn't do it because they're going to be like I didn't follow directions. But absolutely, especially if you know, a lot of times we ask for two or three takes, that'd be a great second or third take, you know especially if you know it felt good as you were doing it, Then yay, and you're going to be doing a VO Boss now, because VO Peeps is now merged into VO Boss.  30:37 - Anne (Host) but you're going to be doing a VO Boss workout for commercial auditioning, so talk a little bit about what we're going to cover in that class.  30:44 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah. So one of the things going back to these three to five seconds, that is something that I want to make sure that we cover. So I am actually putting together, I'm stringing together three to five seconds of multiple auditions, 5060 auditions so you can hear what I get to hear on the casting side.  31:02 - Anne (Host) So love that.  31:03 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, so you it. That's. That's a gem. You'll be able to hear if if people are connected or not. You'll be able to hear I love that everything that you can hear. And then I'll play the final. You know, I'll play the audition that booked it and then the final spot so that you can kind of see, you know, how things change throughout the process. But I think kind of giving you a glance into the casting side.  31:26 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that.  31:27 - Kelly (Guest) Will help you realize like, oh, okay, it's like I can say it a million times, but until you hear it it's not going to stick. And then you will never look at the opening sentence of your auditions the same again. You know it's going to transform how you read and what you submit.  31:44 - Anne (Host) I feel like that is probably one of the most important things is that very first sentence and I always talk about.  31:50 I talk about it in terms of like melody, in terms of singing, like if you just start with the first word and you don't have a pre-life, it all starts pretty much on the same note and I feel like that's not, that's not necessarily in starting it in the right way or starting it in the way that's going to showcase the fact that you are, have a pre-life and that you're connected and you have a story to tell and a purpose, and so that's very I'm very excited about. Wow, that's going to be really, really valuable for our listeners, so very excited about that. Bosses, I'm quite sure, by the time we air this, that we may be sold out. I'm not sure, but you can always check out vobosscom and we'll be having audit tickets as well as participants. So I'm so excited, Kelly, that you're going to be doing this and tell us a little bit about because we kind of do similar things. I mean, we have a membership, we have a community, we coach classes. Tell us a little bit about your classes and your community.  32:50 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. Through VoiceCaster, we have all different levels of classes, beginning to pros. We do commercial, we have animation and video games, we have an accent class. All of those are live classes that we do. Most of themover learn at your own pace course, as well as our signature Finding your Authentic Voice course as well, and you know so. Those are both learn at your own pace kind of a thing. And then, on top of that, we also have our VoiceCaster Insiders membership, which is an online community. We do weekly workouts open to all members. We do monthly calls for any. You know q&a, all of that. We do monthly challenges where you can, you know, working on different parts of the business, performance, business mindset. You know all of that. And we do prizes at the end. And then nice.  33:53 Yeah, and then we have daily things. So we have like our Monday motivation, our take action Tuesday, wednesday wisdom, you know. So it's like we're doing things seven days a week and yeah, it's just, it's been a great community for people just to kind of have a place to go as a sounding board and you know, doing, doing the workouts and you know all of that, sure. So yeah, that's that's been a lot of fun for us, as well as the workouts and you know all of that, sure, um, so yeah, that's that's been a lot of fun for us, as well. As the members and myself, ben and katherine, are, you know, active in there every day. So yeah.  34:23 - Anne (Host) So I'm gonna ask you what people ask me. How do you do it all? I don't sleep yeah, I hear that I hear that, yeah, that's lot, that's a lot.  34:35 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, it is, it is a lot and it's, you know, it's really prioritizing my days. You know, kind of figuring out as much as I can, because you also know like we're in a business where things change real quick and it's like hey, I need to get somebody in for a session. Hey, I need this casting done by yesterday. Hey, you know putting out fires but trying to, you know, have have my set schedule as much as possible as well.  35:00 - Anne (Host) Well, oh my gosh, it's been so, it's been so nice talking with you.  35:04 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I really really enjoyed this conversation.  35:06 - Anne (Host) I'm very excited about our workshop that's coming up guys July 16th and check that at VeoBosscom and, I guess, leave us with your one best piece of advice for anybody new coming into this industry. What would you recommend?  35:22 - Kelly (Guest) Be you, be uniquely you. Whatever makes you you. Be that and always you know in everything that you do. I mean that's life advice, but it's also voiceover advice. You know it's like, just be yourself. You know, if you are determined, if you have the passion, if you have the love for this industry, then show up as yourself, and that is going to take you further than anything else.  35:50 - Anne (Host) Love it, love it. Thank you so much again, bosses. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Thank you, Thanks.  36:08 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble tackle a crucial and often uncomfortable topic for voiceover professionals: money and debt. Prompted by Danielle's recent experience with an unexpected studio investment due to a flood, they delve into whether voice actors should go into debt to fund their careers. This episode explores personal relationships with debt, strategic financial planning, and the importance of financial literacy in building a sustainable voiceover business. They emphasize distinguishing between impulsive spending and calculated investments, advocating for a data-driven approach to financial decisions.   00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguzza Productions, I specialize in target marketed coaching and demo production that gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at anneganguzza.com.  00:21 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:40 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and you are here with the Boss Money Talk series, and I am here with Danielle Famble. I am so excited, Danielle. It's been so long I feel like it's been an age since I've spoken to you. Hey.  00:56 - Danielle (Host) But it was just last month. Yeah, I know it hasn't been that long, but it's good to be back.  01:01 - Anne (Host) Yay, and you know talking about. One of our favorite subjects is money, money, money, money. And speaking of, I noticed you're in a sparkly new booth there, oh, this whole thing it looks like a.  01:12 - Danielle (Host) Studio Bricks. To me this is a Studio Bricks One Plus booth and I've had it for a little while now and, yeah, it's great.  01:23 - Anne (Host) Well, having investigated those studios myself, I do know that's quite an investment it is quite the investment.  01:31 - Danielle (Host) It is an investment that I took quite a long time to get to. It was not an impulse buy, but it was a purchase of necessity.  01:41 Sad news is my apartment flooded and I lost my previous apartment and also booth along the way, and so it was time to get a new booth, and I knew exactly what I wanted to get. Is there insurance for that sort of thing, like for my apartment? And so it was. My previous booth was reimbursed essentially the cost of that booth, but it was not. It was a less expensive booth than this one, obviously, so there was a delta that I had.  02:16 - Anne (Host) So you do have. Yeah, so you did. You did have some, you did have some recovery money for that but you know, it, it. It poses an interesting question. You know you, it seems to, I did yes voiceover talent. Or should you know people that want to get into the voiceover industry go into debt to pay for something like a booth or to pay for their entrance into the industry? I think that would be a good topic to chat about.  02:54 - Danielle (Host) Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, you hit the nail on the head for me. Obviously, my apartment flooding was an unexpected expense, so therefore, the emergency fund really came to be used for its intended purpose. And I you know that's a really good question, because not you don't always have the money to go after the necessities of your dreams. You know, a booth like this is quite a big investment, or even things like your demos or your equipment microphones, coaching, all of those things.  03:28 It costs quite a bit of money. I, because of my personal experience with debt and getting myself out of debt, I am pretty debt averse, so I choose to have my emergency fund pay for the things that are knowable expenses when it comes to building a life and building a career. That's what I try to do. But I can see a reason why there are ways to use debt to your advantage if you know what you're doing. But for me personally, I try to not use debt, especially if I know that something big is coming. Obviously I didn't know that I needed to get a studio bricks, you know when my apartment flooded and also moving and those kind of costs that were incurred and the stress of it all. I was living in a hotel for three weeks because I did not have a place to live. So obviously those things you know. If you don't know and you can't incur those costs because you can't predict it then debt is a tool that can be used.  04:31 I'm just debt averse, and so I try to use other tools before utilizing the lever of debt. But what do you think, Anne?  04:39 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I mean, I think really, it a lot of it has to with and we had talked about this before if you have any type of money blocks, if you grew up with a certain set of beliefs about money. Yeah, I think that I also have been in a position where I've had debt, I've had to pay off, and I don't like to be in a debt situation. Sure, and, if possible, I really encourage everybody to just create that savings account and we've talked about this before the high yield savings account, which I think is really great. But you know, I mean, banks have business loans for a purpose, right, because we are a business. Now, I think, because we are a business that sells our voice, right, we tend to think it's much lower upfront cost, right.  05:26 Then, some businesses, when you have to invest and buy God forbid, you have to rent like a storefront and then you have to buy inventory. So, I think, with the advent of technology and online businesses, people have maybe, maybe it's come to be like a false sense of, hey, it doesn't cost a lot of money to invest in. Let me just open an online business, which is where voiceover tends to fall. However, there's, there's costs that you know you incur in this business and we've talked about that. I mean, there's absolutely your equipment, your studio and, of course, your voice is a cost, because you've got to be able to get jobs with your voice, and so in order to create the best product out there, you've got to train that voice, You've got to have products that showcase that voice, like coaching and demos, and so website and things like you know yeah, and so I am initially adverse.  06:25 However, I think there are, as you mentioned before, calculated strategic ways that you can invest in your business and make other people's money work for you. And you know, one thing comes to mind where my husband took out a loan because there was an offer of a 0% interest, which you know I mean gosh back when we did have some debt. I mean we were great at juggling those 0% interest cards, right, because we didn't have to pay our money in interest. And so he saw an offer and because he wanted to have some extra cushion in the overdraft account, he said let me take out a loan and so let me let me open this credit card, right, so for a certain amount of debt. And and there it sat, and all of a sudden I noticed that my credit score kind of dinged down like a point. I went, hey, what's this? What's this new credit card where there's a certain amount of debt in there and not that had been used, but there was a certain. It was just a new credit card. And he said, oh yeah, I took that out just for overdraft protection, which I think is absolutely fine.  07:33 However, I didn't like my credit score being dinged. But either way, I said well, look, because I had such a good experience with a high yield savings account, I said why don't you just take that chunk of money and throw it into a high-yield savings account? Because, first of all, you're not going to get charged any interest for about a year. So if you calculate the going rate on a high-yield savings account, which right now is about 3.75, I think mine was up at 4.35 at one percent at one point, but I mean it's still really good. And if you have even a few thousand dollars right that you can invest into or put that into the high yield savings account, you leave it in there for a few months and you don't use it. That generates money for you. And that's the thing.  08:16 I kept seeing this credit card and he wasn't using it. He was just using it for cushion, to just sit there. And I'm like well, have it sit there in a high yield savings account so that in a year, once it starts, you know, charging interest, we can have made a few thousand dollars and then way we can pay off the small amount of, you know, credit card debt that we have right now. And to me that would be a strategic way and, believe it or not, like he and I I mean we. I mean, one of the reasons why we're still married after all these years is that we very rarely have financial fights.  08:45 I truly believe that to be the case, but we always we had our own accounts. We, you know, basically have just remained that way throughout our marriage because, you know, we got married a little bit later in life, so I always had my own account, I had his account, and we just created a new account where we pool the money in for, like vacations, and so, you know, we basically live our lives trying to be debt free, and so this is just one of those things because he's really good at finagling those zero percent credit card rates, I'm like, well, at least put it in a high savings yield account. I think that that's a great way to strategically use maybe the bank's way of making money right to generate money that we can pay off our own debt, and I think that might be a strategic way.  09:29 - Danielle (Host) I like that.  09:30 - Anne (Host) Because that might be able to fund your next booth or fund your next microphone or fund your next demo Right.  09:37 - Danielle (Host) Right, right. What I appreciate about that is you were using cold hard facts, right. You were using logic, you were using numbers and you were able to calculate what makes the most sense. Let's just say I need to take out a loan for $10,000,. Let's just say and I've got a 12% one-year interest-free amount of time Okay, I know that it's $10,000. I know that I've got a year to pay it back. Can I reasonably pay back the full $10,000 in the 12 months?   10:33 that's $3,000 to $4,000. You can invest in a. With data. I say go right ahead. But on the flip side of that, if you're looking at this from a place of like scarcity fear, you're not really sure if you can pay it back. Then you're likely putting yourself in a long-term revolving door where you'll need to open up another line of credit to then pay off that line of credit and then you're not building money. You're actually a victim of the bank, instead of using the banks in the way that they're using us, which is to use us to make money, you know, and interest in everything else. So you know.  11:10 For that reason, yes, but that means you have to be super dialed into the logic and the data and the numbers and the facts, and I feel like I fear that some people don't do that, and then they enter into these with, like the hope that they will be able to pay it off, and hope is not currency.  11:28 So that to me is oh that's the words of wisdom right there Hope is not currency.  11:33 - Anne (Host) I love that, Danielle 11:34 - Danielle (Host) Hope is not currency and I feel like if we're, if we're trying to hope our way by using debt as a tool, that is a recipe for disaster. But if you know that you can keep yourself financially in a good place and even actually in a better place where you can make money on other people's money, go right ahead.  11:56 - Anne (Host) You know that's so funny. I'm so glad that you brought this home and gave that perspective, because I think it really makes a lot of sense. And I'll tell you what. It was something that I was. I never really thought about using the banks to make more money because I just was never into financial money like investigation, like that, before, until I started my own business, in which case now it became very important that I had money and that I was able to keep my money or pay you know, pay for my business, right, pay the expenses of my business, especially having you know people that work for me, and paying you know my agency and all that sort of thing, so actually having like money in and money out.  12:41 I then all of a sudden really had to take a hard, cold look at my money, which I think everybody that does this for a living needs to do, because, again, we are businesses and we Anne forget that. As easy as it sounds to have to do this right, to just get on our studios and audition and get jobs and make money and or invest some money, it's really a business and you've got to take a cold, hard look at numbers in order to make it worth your while and to make it sustainable and to grow, and for me it's something that it was like an epiphany almost. I'm like, hey, why don't we do this? Because I had a good money experience here investing this and then I thought to myself gosh banks do that to us all the time. They're making money off our interest. That's exactly how it works. I'm like why can't I do the?  13:32 - Danielle (Host) same thing. Yeah, and it's interesting because the thing is banks whenever we're like doing a loan, getting a loan with them or anything else, they are investigating into us because they have a business model that they know works, so they're utilizing their data to make sure that giving us a loan makes sense for them. We have to do the exact same thing when we're looking at utilizing debt, because a bank would never just say, oh yeah, I mean I hope it'll get paid back, I hope you'll pay us. Mean, I hope it'll get paid back, I hope you'll pay us back.  14:03 - Anne (Host) I hope you'll pay it back.  14:04 - Danielle (Host) They aren't going to do that. That's why, after a certain amount of time, the interest is so high it's so much higher than you would make on your high-yield savings account because they need to ensure that they are getting their money back, plus some. We can do the exact same thing, but it goes back to making sure that you are tracking your numbers. You know your data.  14:28 - Anne (Host) You can look at historical data and you know the risk and you know the risk. I think that's an important component of if you're going to play. If you're going to play like that, you have to know the risk. Now, for us, the risk in a high yield savings account is so much less than, let's say, the stock market. I have to keep my eye on all the time and make sure that that interest rate I mean, at one point it started above 4% and now it's down at 3.7 something percent. But keeping your eye on that and then keeping your eye on the track record, how long has it been at this?  14:51 And every month I'm checking my high yield savings account so that I can say, okay, this month I made X amount of dollars, which is really great, because I just continue. It just makes me want to put more money into my high yield savings account and there is a cap on it. So you do have to know those things as well. Right, you can only put so much money into that high yield savings account. Well, guess what? I'm opening up a second one so you know when you've gotten to that point where you're making that investment. And that's where, danielle, I feel that I'm very, very fortunate, grateful and worked very hard to feel like there's my financial cushion Should something like a disaster happen.  15:29 I mean, and I'm you know fires here in Southern California are a thing you know if something were to happen, I would have that money and also that's money that's kind of earmarked for retirement as well. But I also have a different retirement account for that, totally.  15:44 - Danielle (Host) You've got all these different buckets for as your emergency fund, but then you're using what I like about this. What you just said is that for me, anyway, using my emergency fund and then also using the money of the interest that's being made and my emergency fund it's in the high yield savings account I'm choosing to be my own bank, so I'm using the money that I'm making as the interest. Also, I'm dipping into that emergency fund because that's what it's for, and all I need to do is either just pay my loan back my loan to myself, pay that back to bring my emergency fund back, or let the high yield savings account let the interest pay that back for me over time. Yeah, so there are ways to sort of like make it work. But you know, if you don't know what the numbers and the data and everything looks like and you're not making these informed choices and decisions by using debt, it really can, you know, become a problem. But we can also become our own banks.  16:43 - Anne (Host) Money is and also when it comes time to. You know, most recently, I just invested in a new agency to do some work for for my brands, and it was a considerable investment and it was a risk. Again, it was one of those things when we talk about taking risks. It was a calculated risk and a strategic risk because I looked very closely at the amount that I was going to have to invest and for how long. So I always want to say that I need an escape route.  17:33 Right, if you invest in something and you don't want to have recurring payments, that kind of thing. Right, you don't have recurring debt. Right, just like debt, you have to pay every month and you have to pay a particular interest charge. You don't want to have recurring debt and I try to not have any of that happening at all. But if there is recurring debt that would be like oh, I'm paying off a bill or I'm paying off like a service and it goes for so many months and it's this amount of money. Well, make sure that you've accounted for that within your business and you have the money in case your business is not making the money. Right, and that is one thing that allows me to continually invest in my business take risks and then move forward.  18:14 - Danielle (Host) You have to. You have to constantly be looking at that. This is not a job, a career in any business, business, really, where you're just doing the passion, the thing that you really enjoy doing. There's this entire other operations and data management and education aspect to it that you constantly have to be investing in, and the investment isn't always financial, it is in time, it is in learning, it's in investing in yourself, it's investing in the person and the entrepreneur that you want to be in the future. And yes, money powers that, but it's not always a financial investment. So, really, just make sure that you are able to take the time to do that, to take the time to invest in yourself, and you know the ramifications of it. But debt is I'll go back to this debt is just a tool that you can use. So use your tools wisely. Maybe you need to use other people's money, maybe you use your own currency, but there are ways to grow by utilizing debt. You know, I still try to be. I try to be the bank first and then, sure.  19:24 - Anne (Host) Well, I don't like owing money. I mean I'm that person like at the end of the month, man, pay it off, just pay it off, just get. Although you know there there is, you know when you talk about it, when you take out loans like a car loan or a home loan, I mean that does establish better credit. And so you know, not having like not having credit at all can hurt you Exactly. And so not having some debt or a loan can can hurt your credit. And so it's that game of playing like paying it all off is great, but sometimes it damages your credit If you don't have enough credit open because the banks think, well, I mean it's good that they've paid. What is that? What is the mentality behind that? It's good that they pay off everything, but why is it that you need to have a credit card in order to have better credit?  20:09 - Danielle (Host) That goes kind of back to like for me. That goes back to my history and psychology with money and debt. I was just flat out told debt is wrong, Credit is wrong, it's bad, don't use it. And so when it was time for me in my mid-20s to get a credit card or at least try to make bigger purchases, I had no credit history there was no record.  20:34 So you can't show that you are credit worthy. Until you have a history, until you have credit. And it is this cycle that you really need to understand. And since I was completely ignorant of that because I was just told it's bad, don't play that game. I was at a disadvantage. So you do need to be in it to utilize it, sure, sure, but if you don't, then you're not going to be able to show that you're credit worthy.  21:05 So so, it's a, it's a it's. It's an interesting thing and I think really it should start with education.  21:10 I wish I was educated on it a little bit earlier in life so that I could have a longer amount of time to show hey, I am credit worthy, I am paying my bills on time, I am paying my debts off, and and here's my history of being able to do it it's it's interesting are ways. I think there are ways to learn about it and not get burned, so that you can have a positive experience with money and debt instead of just not knowing or having worse, having fear about it.  21:40 - Anne (Host) I think you make a valid point there and I think I personally, having come from an education background, really believe that financial education should happen in like grade school. Oh yeah, I mean in grade school.  21:53 And there should be, because there's so much, I think, fear For me. I always said it was denial Right, because when I got my first credit card I was like, woohoo, you know I can go and you know, buy this, I can buy anything I want. And then all of a sudden it's like, well, wait a minute, I've got this thing called interest, and why do I have to pay this extra money? And it was interesting because I wasn't really educated in high school about credit cards or finances or really much of any of that, and so it can get out of hand. I mean, I literally just had such a shopping spree with that credit card thinking, oh my gosh, well, I've got a job, I can, you know, I can pay this. But then it can get out of control, it can spiral quickly. You know, I think if I were educated a little bit, I think really the best education that I have gotten recently is having my own business, because for a long time and I think a lot of people might feel the same here it was denial right. I would get that credit card statement at the you know every month and I'd say, okay, all right, it went up a little bit, I can pay that by. You know, all I can do is pay a little bit more every month, and it just was one of those things where I kind of stopped looking. I was like, yeah, here, here's my card.  23:02 And I think denial is a form of fear.  23:04 Oh yes, it is a fear of really looking at the real numbers and seeing what's there.  23:10 And I think, for voice actors just getting into this industry, there are investments We've talked about this in our past episodes investments that you have to make, but they're minimal compared to, let's say, a storefront that requires inventory, but they're still investments, and so, therefore, you do have to be willing to take a risk and make an investment in your product, and that means good coaching and experience having a business.  23:36 That's also something that I think is priceless. Can you really pay for having a business experience like having a voiceover business? I think if I had really succumbed to my fears in the first couple of years, where I wasn't making a whole lot of money, I would have given it up. I would have given up my career and said I'm not making any money and so, therefore, maybe this isn't a viable business for me. So there's that, I think, that balance between taking the risk and then if I had had a financial cushion back at that time when I was taking the risk and then if I had had a financial cushion back at that time when I was taking the risk, I think I could have grown my business much faster.  24:12 - Danielle (Host) Your financial cushion we go.  24:15 You know this goes back to earlier episodes where sometimes your day job or you know other things that you are doing to make money outside of voiceover or outside of this business is your financial cushion, and that's a wonderful thing to have.  24:28 So don't look at it as a detriment. Look at it as something that you are using as another, one of those tools to be able to further your investment in yourself, in your business, in your coaching, in all the things that you would need to support yourself in this business, to support yourself in this business. There are so many different ways to fund this dream, this business, this career. It doesn't have to just be one tool, but you really do have to stay on top of understanding how to use a tool and what it's going to cost you in terms of paying it back or what you're going to gain from it in terms of you know, using the interest If you are using a line of credit, for example how you can really win. That's really what it is is. You can take risks, but it's a calculated risk so that you can make sure that you always are in the winning position.  25:19 - Anne (Host) You want to win. Win that game. Yeah, absolutely, because it's scary to not be in a winning position. For sure, that is for sure. Wow, absolutely, because it's scary to not be in a winning position. For sure, that is for sure. Wow. What a great conversation, danielle. I really appreciate it. Gosh, I love talking to you about money.  25:32 - Danielle (Host) I love talking about money, so let's keep doing it.  25:35 - Anne (Host) Oh gosh. Well, thank you so much. And, bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network and talk money like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  25:53 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

  BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides share an inspiring and candid conversation about the challenges and triumphs of leveling up your business. Anne opens up about her personal journey of growth, from small changes in her Pilates class to taking a significant leap in her company, battling the fear and discomfort that often accompany evolution. This episode offers profound insights into navigating change, the vital role of a supportive team, and the power of embracing risk for long-term success. Listeners will gain actionable wisdom on recognizing their own self-imposed limitations, the importance of strategic planning, and understanding that growth, while sometimes terrifying, is essential for avoiding stagnancy.   00:24 - Announcer: It's time to take your business to the next level—the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now, let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 00:44 - Anne (Host): Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with Lau Lapides in our Boss Superpower Series. Hey Lau, hey Anne. 00:54 - Lau (Guest): I'm so excited to be back. It's been a while, you know. It seems like it's been forever years. It hasn't been, it's been years, but it feels like that. 01:04 - Anne (Host): I'm going to say a lot has happened, and so I brought props to show you. So I have... actually, I love props. I care my props. I have actually leveled up, okay? So in many ways. So I have my three-pound weight and I have my five-pound weight. So in my Pilates class, I finally leveled up because when they say grab your light weights, I went from three pounds to five pounds. 01:26 - Lau (Guest): You're now a heavyweight. 01:28 - Anne (Host): Well... I don't know if it's heavyweight, but now, right, it's a change. I've leveled up, and while it may not seem like a lot over the long haul, guess what? It's going to mean a whole lot. And I thought it was such a great comparison for our businesses and how we can make simple little changes. And those simple little changes over time are going to make an amazing difference. And I even got like excited, and I wrote, "No sacrifice, no success." And then here's my little boot necklace to like kick myself in the butt to remind myself. 02:00 - Lau (Guest): We all need that, Annie, we all need that. 02:02 - Anne (Host): I love that, to do that, yeah. So I've taken some chances with my business, and I have done some things. I've made some changes, some not so small, but they've been coming for a while. In my head, they were small, and over time they evolved into a kind of, maybe, a bigger idea for a bigger vision for my company. And I thought it would be great to just talk about the process because it's not easy to level up. 02:27 - Lau (Guest): Oh, it's no, it's not the most challenging thing you can do. And it's funny how you have the thought, the imagination, the dream, which has nothing to do with the actual reality of doing it, right? So you're moving through that reality. 02:40 - Anne (Host): I consider the brain, right? My brain steps, my little steps over time, because I've been thinking about how am I evolving, how am I going to level up, how am I going to make these changes? And so in my head, I was making small changes, right? Until finally, I started implementing those small changes, and then kind of as a, I guess maybe a side effect or after effect of those small changes, then I needed to make bigger changes. And so now I have to say that through the process, it's been definitely a learning process, not only for... I like to say I have a clear direction of where I want to go, I know that, but also things have happened that have been, I guess, scary. They've been monumental, like growing challenges for me, but also moments where I've been... Oh, I get it now! 03:31 - Lau (Guest): Yes, let's hear, what are some of those aha discovery moments for you that caught you? 03:31 - Anne (Host): So the aha discovery, right? The aha discovery of evolving your business and always growing, and I'm always talking about that, right? I'm always talking about evolving, and I'm like, "Oh, I got an idea for this, I got an idea for that." I'm a little bit of a serial entrepreneur, but when it comes right down to it, I think that a big aha moment for me was in the process of doing this, is that I've learned a lot about myself, and I've learned where I myself get in my own way, right? I myself get in my own way, right? And I like to think that I don't, and that I'm all confident, and I'm... Yes, we can forge forward and be successful. But yet there's been some times where I'm like, "Well, am I doing the right thing?" And I second-guess myself, and then when I do that, I learn more about myself. Yes, and so it's really been a learning experience about myself and how there are ways in which I hold myself back, and how when it comes to growing your business, the team that you have in place can do a lot to support you. 04:33 - Lau (Guest): Now, before you go on, Annie, I want to know on a scale of one to 10, 10 being the most terrorizing, before you made the move, because a lot of our clients and talent ask us about this, like, "How do I make these really serious and scary moves?" How scared, terrorized, were you at the thought of that kind of change, which is semi-radical, especially when you're working with people for quite a while? How scared were you? 04:59 - Anne (Host): Terrified, terrified. I mean, terrified. It was a 10. It was a 10. Stress level eating, do you know what I mean? 05:05 - Lau (Guest): Well, thank you for being honest, I would agree. 05:07 - Anne (Host): I think it's true. Headache, neck ache. It never gets easier. No, it never gets easier. 05:12 - Lau (Guest): It's always a risk, a huge risk. 05:15 - Anne (Host): And we've talked about this. It's not like uncommon that we've talked about like taking risks and stuff like that. And even before, I was like, "Yeah, we take risks, we're bosses." And this time I took a big risk, and I think that I really challenged myself to take a big risk. And is it completely successful? I don't know yet, you know what I mean? It's evolving. 05:34 - Lau (Guest): And that's the nature of risk. If you knew, it wouldn't be a risk. 05:37 - Anne (Host): Exactly. I mean, I'm evolving with it, I'm growing with it, and I have faith that I'm determined that it will evolve into something successful for me, and so that I have. But the terror along the way has been surprising. 05:53 - Lau (Guest): Yes, yes, because it never gets easier. It never gets better. No, right? It just gets more, higher stakes, and it's funny. The stakes get higher. Yeah, and it's funny, what were the stakes for you this time around? Can you like break it down for the listeners? How did that work? 06:07 - Anne (Host): I'm going to keep going back to here, like right. So we all know my health journey, right? And my health journey took about a year and a half, right? To kind of come to fruition and get the news that, you know, I was not well, healthy, and I needed to do something about it. And then get to work, right? Focus, get to work. And so I was driven. I had a goal. I was driven. I didn't stop until I got to that goal. And then all of a sudden, I got to the goal and I'm like, "Wait, I have more goals." 06:34 - Anne (Host): And so my three-pound weight was always my weight that when the Pilates instructor said, "Go grab your light weights," I said, "Okay, three pounds," right? Three pounds is what? Before it was like one pound, I'm not quite sure if it might've been two pounds. Then I said, "All right, I'm going to graduate to three." But then just this past week I went to a five, and I said, for whatever it was, I had been thinking about it and thinking about it and thinking about it. Similar to my business. Right? I was thinking about the moves, I was stressing, I was nervous, I was like debating, I was researching, I did all the things in my head to evolve, and then finally, I took the leap. And so this past Wednesday, I took the leap, and I went to five pounds. Isn't that great? And it wasn't horrible, and it wasn't horrible. And now I know that there will be days when I'm not going to want to do the five pounds, but I'm going to push myself to do the five pounds. 07:24 - Lau (Guest): You're going to push, but there was something inside of you. 07:26 - Announcer: This is something I think the listeners have to know this. 07:29 - Lau (Guest): There was something inside of you, this little voice, that somehow knew that you could take it on. 07:34 - Anne (Host): And today was the day you could handle it, even though you felt nervous, scared, and with weights, you actually can get hurt, physically hurt, right? 07:44 - Lau (Guest): So of course you're not lifting 150 pounds, but you can still hurt yourself, right? Exactly. Well, let's transfer that now to your business. 07:52 - Anne (Host): Yeah, I mean, and it was funny because I thought about it, thought about it, thought about it, strategized, strategized, said, "Yes, I should. No, I shouldn't. Yes, I should." Today's the day. 08:00 - Lau (Guest): The back and forth, right, Annie? The back and forth. Yes, no. 08:02 - Anne (Host): And then I said, "Today's the day." Today is the day, right? And so literally, that's kind of what happened when I made the decision after I had been thinking about it, researching, going back and forth, "Okay, I'm going to do it," and then I started it, and it was like building a muscle, right? So I'm still in the process of building the muscle of my business and getting through the growth, right? So I'm going to grow my muscle with my five-pound weight. 08:29 - Anne (Host): I'm going to grow my business, right, with my growth strategy, and it's terrifying, it's uncomfortable, right? It's uncomfortable, but there are little successes that I'm seeing along the way, and that makes me happy, and that gives me the confidence to move on and to continue on my journey. And I know in my heart, right, I will make it work for me in the way that it's best. I think the one thing, Lau, which is interesting, is I always have to figure out what's the fallback, right? What's the worst-case scenario, and can I accept the worst-case scenario? 09:02 - Lau (Guest): What is the worst-case scenario? 09:02 - Anne (Host): The worst-case scenario was I'm committed to my growth strategy for a certain amount of time and a large amount of money, to be quite honest with you. 09:09 - Lau (Guest): Well, that's what I was going to say, that you lose a bunch of money that you don't feel you got any return on or any knowledge on. That would be the worst, wouldn't it? Honestly, I can't imagine that happening with you because you're going to squeeze the juice out of everything, but that would be the worst. 09:25 - Anne (Host): The confidence that I have, Lau, and I think that what we've spoken about as well in podcasts before, and I get excited about this, is that I said, "Okay, I have a certain amount of money, I can make a commitment, and I am okay if I lose this money." It's kind of like... it's like gambling. I was just going to say, I don't want to bring up gambling, but I will, because when I go to Vegas, I say, "Okay, I have a certain amount of money. If I decide that I want to gamble..." I don't really gamble a whole lot, like my gambling money is maybe 20 bucks, just to have fun. 09:51 - Lau (Guest): I don't either. 09:51 - Anne (Host): Because I'd rather spend my money on something that I know I'm getting. Like I'm getting a nice facial or a massage. 09:55 - Lau (Guest): I do too, I know. Or dinner. But doesn't that make it harder for you to make those moves because you're not a gambler? 10:05 - Anne (Host): Well, I'm not a gambler, let's say, in Vegas, but I am a gambler with my business in a lot of ways, because I know that if I don't, I will be worse off. If I do not grow, and I've said this before, stagnancy is the death of me. If I do not grow, that is the worst. And I think what was happening is I was at a place where I didn't feel like I was growing anymore, and I wanted to continue the growth. And I'm like, "How can I grow? How can I get more clients? How can I reach these clients?" And when I really researched the answers, it wasn't within my own industry, because I had my own circle already built, which was amazing, and I love my circle. I'm not giving up my circle, but I needed to get beyond the circle to bring in new people, to bring in, right, new clients, and that was, I mean, really, how was I going to reach those clients? 10:54 - Lau (Guest): So what does that translate to for you in terms of this last move that you just made? I know you can't get into too many details before your launch of it, but what did that translate to you in terms of the team you had and were working with, the new team you wanted to be working with, and the new concept that you had moving forward? What were the action steps that you really had to start taking on in order to realize that? 11:22 - Anne (Host): Well, action steps was, first of all, education and research, right, and understanding. And I was actually put in a situation where I needed to get a new team of professionals that could, first of all, handle my website, because the person that I had worked with for many, many years was not able to continue to do that. And so I was looking for more members of the team. And so in doing so, it's hard out there looking for people. I mean, we've discussed this before, like, do they know the industry? Do they not know the industry? What are their skill levels? And, to be honest with you, if people in the voiceover industry knew website development, there are a few people that do, but there's not a lot, right? 12:01 - Anne (Host): So I had to go outside of the industry to look for people that could handle the back end of my websites, because I got a lot going on. I mean, we know that the podcast here, there's a lot of products, there's lots of back-end workings in the website that set up appointments with me, that handle income and inflows and outflows and that sort of thing. So I needed to have someone that was capable in that to take over. And so in doing that was education, research, interviewing, and then also really having a hard look at the budget, because you know, I mean, I have a certain budget. And I think the one thing that sealed it for me—the go, right, the go, and go after thinking and strategizing and education—was having a certain amount of money set aside that I could risk, right, to move forward and know that if it didn't work out, I wasn't confined to a lifetime of it, right, financially or emotionally. I could get out of it if I needed to, right? And what would be the worst thing that could happen? 13:00 - Anne (Host): Well, I would lose that money. So I was just like, if I was going, I have this amount of money that I'm willing to lose, and now I'm ready to gamble. And that's really what it took. And that, just knowing that, having that security and knowing that I had a certain amount of money I was willing to invest and lose completely, completely, if things didn't go the way that I thought they were and I needed to get out, I was okay with that. And so I think that gave me the green light to go ahead and do it. And now, once I'm doing it, right, there's all sorts of like things that are like... I was not anticipating all sorts of obstacles in the path that I did not anticipate. 13:38 - Lau (Guest): Tell us about a few of those obstacles that you ran into. 13:40 - Anne (Host): Well, you know, if you're working with new people, they don't know you, right? They may or may not know your industry. These people did not know my industry, and so they need to be educated so that they can do the best job that they can. The amount of time that I spent educating it's amazing because, you know, I've been in this industry for, I don't know, 17, 18 years, and people that have been working with me have been working with me a long time, so that's a lot of years. Once you work with someone or, you know, you get to know them for that long of time, it's great, because you know the process, you know the industry, you know the person you're working with, you know what they're expecting. When you have new people, it's a whole new relationship, right? And it's like a new client, right, a new voiceover client, where I always loved voiceover because you got in and you got out quick. 14:25 - Anne (Host): A lot of times, yeah, you had a client that kept coming back. You developed a relationship, and typically it was an easy relationship because they've liked what you've done, and they were happy with it, and there was never really, for the most part, you're not having difficult moments within that relationship. This one, I am an owner of my business, right? I need to have it run in a particular way, so it's not like I'm the boss this time, right? Before, my clients, they're the boss, right? I have a skill that I'm providing, and I'm providing audio to them. They like it, they accept it, they pay me. It's great. They come back. Right, they give me new stuff. They like it, they accept it, they pay me. It's great. This, I'm the boss, right? I have to like it, I have to accept it, and I have to say, "This is great. This is moving my business forward." So I have to do a lot of assessment along the way, especially with new people who may not be familiar. 15:12 - Lau (Guest): Now I have a question about that, okay, because we get a lot of questions about this. Folks come in and feel like, "I'm working on a voiceover career or an actor career. If I need to hire people or I need to get a vendor to serve me in a particular service, they come in, they have their expertise. I pay them, they do it." The problem is they're missing the link of how much education and management you have to do when you hire a person, a consultant, a team. It's any person. It is not like, "Here, do my website, and I'm done, and I'll see you in a couple of weeks when it's done," and that's time consuming. Can you take us through, right, can you take us through a little bit of the process of how you are managing this new, brand new team of people who may or may not have the expertise in this industry? How are you managing those people? What does that look like in terms of time and in terms of effort? 16:05 - Anne (Host): Oh, it's a lot, it's a lot of time, it's a lot. It's more time than I anticipated, and I forgot. I mean, because I had gotten almost complacent because people knew me so well, right? I mean, and so now I have to educate new people, a new team, on how I want my business to move forward and who I am and certain things that I expect. And so the amount of time that was required, I did not anticipate. I thought it would be easy, but it's not. And it's interesting because it kind of brought me back to, you know, you think things are just automated and my web girl, I've worked with her for 15 years, she knows me, she knows exactly like what I love, she knows if I say I need something on my website, she could do it. I didn't have to like micromanage at all. Now, all of a sudden, right, there's a lot of time spent educating the new team on, "Here's the practices and the procedures. And this is the way that I like it, because I'm the boss, right?" That amount of time that I'm managing, and I don't like to micromanage. What I like to do is educate enough so that I can say, "Go be creative, do it." It's so funny because, no matter what they do for you, right, they have to know who you are and your brand in order to be able to help you grow your business further. 17:17 - Anne (Host): And I literally went to the boot. Again, I go back to the boot, but I went shopping yesterday. I had a gift card to spend it at this Western store, and I got a cowboy hat. I got a cowboy hat, it's really cool. And the guy branded it for me on the inside of it, and I said, "Well, I love branding." Right, I love branding. "Let's do my initials AG." You know, that's like my website, it's everything. So he has the branding AG. And then I said, "Oh, I like those stars. I'm a star, make me a star." And the way he branded me, he floured it. Like every time he put that branding iron on the hat and he picked it up, it was branded. It was like a big flourish. And I'm like, "I don't care what you do or how many stars you put on it, you're creative. He's like, 'Oh, I'm a creative person, you do your thing, I trust you. You can put as many stars on there as you want, but I'm a star.'" So he's like, "Okay." So I let him like creatively flourish with my brand. But I gave him the specs on, "Here's my AG brand, and I need it to look like this. But now you can flourish and enhance the brand." 18:15 - Anne (Host): It's kind of what I'm doing with my business, right? I'm allowing people to do what they're good at, and that's a big thing. Like to kind of give up the control to allow the people who are experts in what they do, like I'm not a graphic expert, right? I need a graphic expert to create beautiful graphics for my website or a beautiful graphic for my social media, and so that's what they do, right? So I'm like, "Here, here's my guidelines, here's the brand, here's what it looks like for the most part, but put your creative flourish on it," and I love that. That's how I want to be able to manage people. I want to be able to have people that I can say, "Here, here's your baseline, your guidelines for the business. This is how I need it to sound, this is how I want to be represented. Go ahead, put your creative flourish on it." 18:58 - Lau (Guest): Do you feel like, Annie, especially if it's a company that has never worked with someone like you or someone like this brand or even in the genre of the business, do you feel like you can trust them to go off and create? Because there are so many questions that come up about the products and services themselves, do you feel like you can sort of take that step away, or do you feel like in the first couple months you don't? 19:23 - Anne (Host): I do need to be on top of the matter for the first couple, because I, yes, and that's what I'm finding, is that I do have to say, "No, this isn't quite what I need. Let's make adjustments," and they need to be willing to make adjustments while they get to know. It's a mutual, we need to get to know each other. 19:38 - Lau (Guest): Okay, so I have a question about that. How do you determine—this is a common question of all of our talent and clients—how do you determine how to bank hours according to what you're paying your marketing team to bank hours in order to educate, collaborate, go back and forth? How do you negotiate that with your company, not really knowing how much time they're going to need to figure it out? 20:06 - Anne (Host): Well, honestly, like, no sacrifice, no success, right? I am sacrificing a lot of my hours to do all the checking and then making the corrections and saying, "No, this, not this, this." And so for me, it's a sacrifice, right? It's a sacrifice of my time. I have to make sure I allocate time to be able to do that to educate them. But the better I can educate them right in the beginning, the less time I'm going to have to spend later on. That's the way I feel, and the easier it'll be for them to get to know me. I don't think that there's any lack of content about me out there, so, like there's lots of help if people need to know who is Ann Ganguzza. 20:43 - Lau (Guest): But the question is that a lot of people are going to be wondering is what if they want to hire a marketing team? What if they want to have a marketing consultant, right, working on? How do they know how much that investment will be, not just time but money, how much that investment will be based on the kind of education and back and forth that they will need to do with that team? Even if they're in the industry, they're still going to need to do it. 21:07 - Anne (Host): Yeah, it's probably more than you anticipate. You think that you can just say, "Here, create a graphic," or "Make my website." But there's so much that, again, because we are personal brands out there, right, in this industry. We are personal brands, brands out there, right? In this industry, we are personal brands. There's so much of us that is invested in representation and what we look like, what we sound like, how we're being sold, right? There's so much of us that, if we are not able to educate a team on who we are, right, and how we need to be represented, right, you need to be able to allocate that time. So the way that it's working with my team is that services are rendered. I mean, I don't pay for every version of a graphic. They basically do it until it's right, and that's how that works. I pay a blanket fee. 21:53 - Lau (Guest): Do they give you an amount of hours that they're willing to budget in for the month? 21:55 - Anne (Host): Nope, nope, that's great. There's no, yeah, there's no, not in a contract, let's put it that way. And so that was something that actually it's a really great question, because that was something that I wanted to make sure of. I mean, when we went back, right, "Here's what I need. I need to have this, this, this and this. Are you able to provide that, right, and are you able to provide revisions, right, without additional charges?" There's no charges. I'm paying a retainer fee, and so there are no, at least in the contract. There are not, right. There are not. There is a statement of work. There are timeframes. So if I need this to be done on my website, I should expect it to take this long. 22:40 - Lau (Guest): Right. Now, I have a question about that, Annie. If they're doing socials, which they're engaging in SEO, but also an engagement for you, right? They're doing socials in terms of engagement, they're doing graphics. 22:52 - Anne (Host): They're doing some graphics. They're doing graphics. 22:55 - Lau (Guest): But do they actually go on and engage in your voice? 22:57 - Anne (Host): I'm engaging right now. Okay, the question is, though, for people who need help, they would. They would. 23:02 - Lau (Guest): Well, that's the question I have. 23:03 - Anne (Host): If I wanted them to, they would, but I want to engage with the people as long as I have the time. I want to be able. The initial like impression of me and then if there are comments or questions, I like to engage for now, until there are some questions that they can handle on my behalf. But I don't want to misrepresent or people to think that, "Oh, somebody besides Ann is answering." For the most part, I'm interacting with any engagement that happens. They just need to provide the initial wow for the engagement. 23:37 - Lau (Guest): I got you. I got you. 23:38 - Anne (Host): But they would. They said they would, and I actually... We never actually went into that, because that's not what I'm having them do right now. I'm more concerned with them getting the website SEO going, doing some SEO work. They're doing a lot of SEO work for me, which, again, I wanted to be able to expand my reach and to be found outside of the circle that I was in already. 23:57 - Anne (Host): So that requires a lot of keywords. It requires a lot of going back to content that I've produced, creating new graphics for it, creating new titles, creating new words, you know, new content, new descriptions. And so, for the most part, I am approving all of that, and if it needs to go back to the drawing board, I basically correct it and say, "No, let's do this, let's do that." Again, I'll say, "I would never have said this, right, or I would never say this. This is not the proper terminology for this industry." So that's the one thing is that they don't necessarily know the terminology in the industry, nor do they know like, graphically, like, what microphone should I represent? Like, no, do not put a dynamic microphone. 24:39 - Lau (Guest): So you're doing that kind of team, and it's good for our listeners to just know, like, why are you doing this when you could do it yourself? But the expertise of an ad team like this is not only graphics and graphic design, but it's also how to reach your target markets. 24:57 - Anne (Host): Yes, and a different perspective, Lau. That's the other thing that I want to say is, the biggest benefit of this is it's great to have people in the industry, and I still have people in the industry that are doing work for me, but also having a perspective that's outside of the industry, because, again, I need to get outside of the bubble that I'm in, right? And so how do I do that without a different perspective? Right, I want to attract corporate clients. Right, I want to attract corporate clients for my voiceover. How am I going to do that if they're not in my circles already? Right, how am I going to reach outside? 25:28 - Anne (Host): And so a lot of it was to have somebody that does that for all industries to be able to do that for me, and then also, basically, to give me the perspective, like, so that I don't get in my own way, because I've literally had to say, like, "Do you think you should put my face on that graphic right now?" 25:47 - Anne (Host): "Because doesn't that seem too assuming, you know?" And I get all like, here I am getting in my own way, and they're like, "No, no, no, no, because at this stage of the sales funnel, right, they don't know you yet, and so you need to represent your face in that confident way, blah, blah, blah, blah. Later on down in the sales funnel, when they know you, then you don't have to repeat that." So they're experts in that, and basically there's a lot that I'm learning from them, and they're learning a lot about the industry from me. And we're collaborating, and that's the one thing that I do like is that it's in a very collaborative sort of way, and it wasn't without many interviews, by the way, and what's cool about that is they become... 26:31 - Lau (Guest): Yes, you're educating them about the industry and how they need, and people are going to be seeing and thinking about you that are not esoteric, they're not in the industry, they're people that are in the universe. Corporate people, people who might hire me for a voiceover. Yeah, I just want to say, though, that that is a perspective that we all lose along the way. 26:53 - Anne (Host): We do. 26:54 - Lau (Guest): Because we get so involved in the audience that we're currently with, we think everyone is like that. Everyone sees it that way, when really it can be quite opposite to that, that they see you as something totally different than what you think they're seeing you as. 27:07 - Anne (Host): Yeah, and that was the biggest education for me and the biggest takeaway is that it's a growth experience. 27:15 - Anne (Host): Growth is not always fun. Growth is not always fun, growth is not always easy, but growth is to me a sign of moving ahead and moving forward. And so, as long as I can accept that, and I can accept the beatings along the way and the discomfort, and the discomfort, you know, you've got your triumphs and celebrations and exciting moments, but you also have, yeah, you got to work that out. 27:37 - Anne (Host): Work out my stress, work out my stress. I love it. But it's all good, guys, and bosses. I guess this whole discussion today was like really small steps can really mean large growth for you in the long term. And for me, it was a bunch of tiny steps in my head, and then it was just kind of a leap of faith, right, once I said, "What's the worst that could happen?" 27:57 - Anne (Host): Right, I have accepted the worst thing that could happen. And I remember that's so funny, Lau, because in the beginning of time, I feel like in the beginning of time when I graduated college, right, a thousand years ago, a thousand years ago, when I graduated college and I was trying to determine whether I should accept a job in New Jersey, right? Should I move my young butt to New Jersey in a place that I didn't know anybody, all by myself, right, and work for this company? And I said, "You know what? It's scary, but I'll give it a year, and if it doesn't work out in a year, guess what? I can move home." The worst thing is, I don't like it and I move home. 28:31 - Anne (Host): So I did the same thing with my business, and I'll tell you what, Lau, it really puts things in perspective. I said, "Okay, I have a certain amount of money that I can lose, that I'm going to invest, I can lose it, and I'm okay with that, as long as I grow along the way. And if I grow along the way, I have such an education." To me, I'm like, "This is great, now I can move forward." 28:50 - Lau (Guest): I'm with you, totally, I'm with you. Now, one more question: To the people who are not leveling up quite in that way. Maybe they're in an early stage, earlier stage. They say, "I need this, I love this, and I want this, but I don't know if I have the extra money, I don't know if I have the extra capital for this." What do you say to those people that are a little bit tighter on budget, a little bit more worried about paying the rent, a little bit earlier in the game, or maybe they're not, maybe they've been in it for 10, 15 years, but they're still worried about the tight purse strings? What do you say about that? 29:21 - Anne (Host): Well, okay. So tight purse strings are one thing, right? I mean, you either do what you have to do to get the money. You put it in savings, you save for as long, earn it. 29:29 - Lau (Guest): Yeah, you work at Dunkin' Donuts. You know what I mean? Beg, borrow, steal it, as we used to say. Make me my iced coffee at Dunkin' Donuts. 29:35 - Anne (Host): You do whatever you do and you put it away, and then you say, "I've got this amount of money to invest." 29:40 - Lau (Guest): That's if you actually need the cash, right? Yeah. 29:42 - Anne (Host): And if it's not just cash and you just don't want to work, do you know what I mean? Like educate yourself. Like spend the money, invest the money in yourself. If you don't have money, it's time. 29:55 - Lau (Guest): Right. Beg, borrow, steal, right? Don't. I think you're also saying one really important work ethic thing that's a bottom line too, is you got to work harder? 30:00 - Anne (Host): Not only smarter. 30:02 - Lau (Guest): You got to work harder. I don't know why people threw that out the window. "Work smarter, not harder." Well, you kind of have to do both. 30:09 - Anne (Host): You have to do both. You have to work hard and work smart, right? Yeah, you do, and that's actually, I love that you said that. You really do. I mean, people know that I work. I mean, I'm just, I'm working extra hours right now. 30:19 - Lau (Guest): I'm not calling you a slob, but you're a grinder. You know what I mean? You are a grinder. 30:24 - Anne (Host): I always have been, but more so than I really want to. But my ultimate goal is so that I'm not going to have to work so hard in the future. Right? And again, if I were stagnant, right, and I just got kind of complacent, then that's almost worse. 30:37 - Lau (Guest): Yeah, but I know you. I know you. I don't think you're ever going to retire. You're not the type. You'll be on the phone at 98 going, "Wait a second, are you saying this?" I mean, you do have too much love and passion for everything that you're doing, and you know that's what really drives us at the end of the day. It's fun, there's got to be a fun factor. 30:55 - Anne (Host): Well, I think it's like a game. It's a game I play, you know, in a way. 30:59 - Lau (Guest): I mean, there's strategy, you want to win. Exactly, it's a very creative game for me. 31:05 - Anne (Host): So I think that, bosses, we all have to play that creative game. We all have to not just want to win at our performance and be in the booth and do a great job, but also win at our businesses and play the game. I mean, play the game. It's not a bad game to play, it's a fun game if you allow it to be, right, even though I'm telling you, I have discomfort, I'm stressed, but I enjoy the journey. 31:27 - Lau (Guest): I enjoy the journey. And remember what makes it successful, Annie, is that you're the designer of the game. Yes, you get to not only play the game, you get to design it. So don't lose out on the design element. That's the beautiful thing about it, right? 31:37 - Anne (Host): We're designing our own game. 31:39 - Lau (Guest): Our businesses are similar in the industry, but they couldn't be more different in the way they're designed and executed, and that's the beauty of what we do as creatives. Is that, and any industry that you run your own business, no two restaurants are really the same. 31:53 - Announcer: There's different designers. 31:55 - Lau (Guest): So have fun with that. 32:02 - Anne (Host): So guys, do the work, do the work, Make the small changes. 32:04 - Anne (Host): Yeah, Lau it's been amazing. Thank you so much for all your love and encouragement too. You are a big part of my team and I love having encouragement that does help, because you don't feel so all alone and I'm not also like, oh my God, am I doing the right thing? So yeah, guys, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses, like Lau and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom Bosses. Have an amazing week and let's go build those muscles. All right, bye, bye. 32:33 - Announcer: Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via1 IPDTL.  

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere, your "real bosses" and co-hosts, connect to dive deep into the critical world of online security and scam prevention for voiceover professionals. They unpack Tom's recent harrowing experience with an AI voice cloning scam, offering a candid look into the crucial insights needed to navigate digital threats and build a truly secure business in today's landscape. Listeners will discover the essential role of vigilance and proactive measures in protecting their assets, gain an understanding of emerging scam tactics, and appreciate the power of community in safeguarding their careers. Anne and Tom also discuss practical pathways for secure transactions and the evolving nature of digital defense.   00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne from VO BOSS here.  00:04 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VO BOSS. Vip membership, now with even more benefits.  00:10 - Anne (Host) So not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP plus tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself.  00:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best Voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you.  00:32 - Anne (Host) Join us guys at VO BOSS and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit voboss.com slash VIP-membership to sign up today.  00:45 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast.  01:04 - Anne (Host) I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my real boss, Tom Deere. I had to think about that, Tom. We've been together so long. I was like what is our subtitle here? We are real bosses.  01:20 - Tom (Host) Yeah, we're real bosses. Thanks for having me back, Anne.  01:23 - Anne (Host) How are you doing, Tom, my real boss? Co-host.  01:26 - Tom (Host) All things considered, I'm doing okay, I had a weird experience recently which it seems like a lot of voice actors are experiencing. I got an email from someone expressing interest in wanting to cast me for a voiceover project. Oh yes, I looked at it and it was this long-form project, something like 9,000 and change words. And I looked at it and I'm like and you know I was reading the ins and outs of it and I'm like, huh, like my spider sense was tingling a little bit, but I'm looking at, I'm like this one is worth replying to and getting some information about.  02:00 So there was a little bit of back and forth about it.  02:03 - Anne (Host) So you did reply, and then there was.  02:05 - Tom (Host) There was more conversation.  02:06 - Anne (Host) Yeah, there was more conversation, which is what I always do when I'm trying to find out more information about a job to make sure it's legit.  02:12 - Tom (Host) Right Now, around the same time, maybe a couple of days after that, someone posted on a Facebook group hey, I got this email. It was saying this and this Did anyone else get it? Does it seem legit? And it looked like it was the same email that I had gotten, so I was following that it turns out.  02:28 It was posted by our friend, bridget Real, who is the co-founder of VA for VO, the virtual assistant site that helps voice actors, and we talked about it a little bit and we're both like, yeah, we're going to keep digging a little bit and see what's going on. And then her business partner, lynn, also got the email and I was getting ready to accept it just to see what would happen. And that morning I got a message from her saying hey, did you accept this project? Yet I'm like no, why? And she said because both of us accepted the project. We both got cast for the same exact project. We both got the same exact script. They sent me the script.  03:00 So then I did this. I went to Gemini, google Gemini, which is my AI bot of choice, and I did the prompts. I said you are an expert at detecting scams. Please analyze this script and let me know if you think that this script could be used to harvest a voice actor's voice to clone it. A voice actor's voice to clone it. And it did its analysis and I've got like the 2.5 advanced. So it takes a little time. And it wrote back oh, yes, it does. And here are all the reasons why this, this, this, this, this, this and this. And then I sent that information to Bridget and Lynn and they're like we knew it. We knew it. So then she created a wonderful post on LinkedIn talking about it. And then I wrote a blog with all the information and, like what happened, it was the most read blog I've had in like three years or something like that.  03:52 Yeah, it was crazy.  03:53 - Anne (Host) What's so interesting is it could have been a legit job, like for payment. You would have done it, they would have paid you for it, but they would have used your voice as an AI voice.  04:05 And so therefore, legally right in the end. Right, if you found out later on they could say, oh no, no, no, we paid you. I mean, it was a job that we paid you for and there was no extenuating circumstances or contracts to be signed which, by the way, I'm going to bring up Nava and the AI writer For all your jobs. You should be attaching that AI writer so that your voice is not going to be used as an AI voice, for sure, for sure.  04:37 - Tom (Host) So, to let everybody know, the website was GigLumin G-I-G-L-U-M-I-N. And if you do a Google search of GigLumin and this is what Bridget had figured out is that the website was only a month or two old. And there's these scam websites that you can enter the URL of a website in and it can tell you how likely that's a scam. It checked every red flag, every box, every single box.  04:56 - Anne (Host) So, yes, vo people, bosses, beware, right. So beware of emails. And you know, it's funny because it's lately, just because of the whole AI thing. Anytime I get an email with a job from someone that I don't know, right, that is just out of the blue, that I didn't audition for, where they have large amounts of words, the hairs on the back of my neck kind of stand up and I immediately, immediately check into it. And I think this really warrants a discussion, bosses, because it's very timely that you want to make sure that these jobs are legitimate. So the more research you can do. And I love, Tom Dheere, how you used AI to fight AI Again.  05:37 We had our previous episode on tools that we use. I mean, we are utilizing it as a tool to help us in our day-to-day jobs, and so I think, being aware of possible scams out there, we absolutely have to be, and I'll tell you if it's somebody that I've never heard of and they don't have a signature file. I've gotten to the point where I don't even like and it's not like from a company.com. I don't even literally take it seriously anymore. I don't know about you, Tom, what do you think?  06:05 - Tom (Host) Yes, I'm equally skeptical these days but, I, really like what you said about when you receive the email, check to see if there is a signature at the Tom of it with the company logo, website and contact information. That is one of many red flags and I don't know how much you've noticed lately, Anne, but since I would say about early April, there has been an explosion of scam attempts going on in the voiceover industry. We've had the overpayment scam. That's been going on for at least 10 or 15 years.  06:37 - Anne (Host) Gosh, at least, and bosses. If you haven't heard about it, Tom, let's talk about the overpayment scam for just a minute. Yeah, yeah, Okay so what happens is it's very common.  06:45 - Tom (Host) It's very common. It's been going on for a really long time. So basically they email you and say hey, we've got a project for you, da-da-da-da-da-da. The classic one was the game show host voiceover.  06:55 - Anne (Host) It has since evolved.  06:56 - Tom (Host) And basically they say that we've booked a studio in the area nearby. We're going to get paid or pay for the studio and then send us back the difference and something like that. And it's never a gig.  07:12 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) All they're trying to do is get you to cash that check and send them money, which is fraudulent, by the way.  07:18 - Anne (Host) And, by the way, I've gotten to the point where, if I have a new client, the only way they can really pay me is electronically.  07:25 And I figure, if you don't have electronic means to pay me immediately before the job and it's even in my terms and I've done this for years, Tom, I always have payment in full prior to job start is appreciated and other options available upon request.  07:39 But if it's a new client, I'll take that out because I must have that money in my bank account before I will even consider finishing that job or sending a file. And I'll tell you what, Tom for all of my career it's worked for me Because if people are serious about hiring you, they know that you're a professional, they know that you're going to get the job done. Of course they have to put their faith in you. But in reality and I'll even say because you're a new client I require payment up front electronically. And here are the ways that you can pay me. And so I'll send them, like a QuickBooks invoice, or I'll give them a PayPal account or however that works, and I expect that money in the account and I wait for that money and I make sure that I have the money and then I'll proceed with the job.  08:21 - Tom (Host) That's a really good idea. There's nothing wrong with even asking for 50% or 25% or just some percentage of it. The fact that they're actually going to fork over money with no expectation of an overpayment or getting it back or disputing the payment or anything like that.  08:37 Once it clears, you know that they're serious. And there's a bunch of like. I use Wave apps, for example. That's a great way to do it and I'm pretty sure they can do a partial payment. Or you can just make one invoice just for the deposit and then issue another invoice for the balance If they're a legitimate client that actually has money that they're planning on paying you with, they would have no problem with paying at least a portion of it up front.  08:59 - Anne (Host) Yeah, a lot of my clients nowadays the larger clients that used to like work off of purchase orders, and then it would be like 90 days after the job has been submitted. We'd have to wait for that check, they'd have to generate the PO and everything. You'd sign contracts like vendor contracts and that sort of thing, which I've done a lot, and so if they've got a contract for you to sign, that's vendor, nda, that sort of thing, and you know the company. It's like a well-known company. They're on the web. They've been on the web for years. I mean you can pretty much trust in that where I'll do the job and then I'll get paid. If I've worked with them before, I know that's typically how larger companies work and so that's when I'll accept a check. But even now most of those companies they're going to electronic deposit, like ACH they call it.  09:42 ACH, yeah, so it's direct deposit to your bank and most of the companies I know will do that and that's a form of payment that I trust and that would be a client that I would trust. So if it's a larger company that I know they exist on the web and they talk about, well, you're going to have to do the job first and then we'll be able to pay you once the purchase order is created, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you sign these contracts. I feel fairly good about that and I don't have to think, oh, this is a scam. But whenever I get an email without an actual signature file that comes from an address that isn't companycom, right, if it's a Gmail or a Yahoo or whatever, even a Microsoft what is the free Microsoft one?  10:20 Hotmail, hotmail, yeah, even if it's Microsoftcom, I feel like there's some sort of free sort of Microsoft. You know what I mean Like email that says that I just don't trust it and I'll immediately. The first thing I'll do is look for a website and when I get to the website I'll look for a phone number and then I'll actually try to call that phone number. What are the steps that you take, Tom, to ensure that your job is legit?  10:41 - Tom (Host) Everything that you just said. I also, by the way, I do love the ACH direct deposit because there's no fee. When PayPal, there is a fee, or wire transfer. That's really nice. Here's one thing that I've been doing lately is, if I get a we'll call it a solicitation, for lack of a better term from a company saying hey, and it'll most often be we found you on Google, we found you on Voice123 or some other front-facing thing. You know what's an interesting thing to do? Go look for them on LinkedIn.  11:11 Look for them on LinkedIn. Look for the company and look for the individual and see if you have any mutual connections. I mean, it could be anybody, whether it's a voice actor or somebody in some other profession, and you can reach out on LinkedIn and say, hey, I got an email from this company and you have a connection with them on LinkedIn. What's your experience with them? And that could give you some really quick insight. Sometimes it's just like, oh, I've been working with them for years, or it's oh, they're a huge scam. I forgot to disconnect with them. Run, run, run. Or I'd sent a rando invite, or they sent a rando invite and I don't have any information for you. But it could increase your chance of vetting them a little bit better. Another thing is that I keep an eye out, for is if they ask me to send them a W-9, the more likely that they are legitimate.  12:00 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, which I find interesting because if they were a real, true scam artist, they would want that W-9, because now they would have your social security number and now they can steal your identity too.  12:11 - Anne (Host) Well, oh my gosh, Tom, and that's scary actually, but that's why you don't put your social security number. You put your EIN number, because you're a company right, and you don't have to give up your EIN number, which is, by the way, one thing. I'm glad you mentioned that like we should all be having an EIN number. I'm glad you mentioned that, like we should all be having an EIN number.  12:30 - Tom (Host) Yes, it's very, very simple to get. It takes very, very little time. So it's a very easy get. I just reminded myself and we just talked about identity theft is that I almost had my identity stolen yesterday.  12:43 - Anne (Host) Whoa, that's scary. Yes.  12:45 - Tom (Host) How do you?  12:46 - Anne (Host) know like what happened.  12:51 - Tom (Host) Okay, so it was about a little after 10 am yesterday is when things started happening, so within a few minutes of each other, I got an email from Credit Karma, norton which, because I have my Norton 360 antivirus software package, I pay a subscription through that and Experian. For those of you who don't know, there are three major credit bureaus there's Experian, there's TransUnion and there's Equifax. I have a free account with Experian and I have a free account with Credit Karma. All three of them, within a few minutes of each other, messaged me and said that there was a hard inquiry.  13:30 - Anne (Host) Yeah.  13:30 - Tom (Host) So what that means is if you are applying for a loan, a mortgage, a credit card or something like that, the company that you're applying to will do a credit check. So they will check your credit and see if you are a safe credit risk to make the loan or to get the credit card, for this was a hard inquiry. If you get enough hard inquiries on your credit, your credit will go down.  13:55 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I know that because I'm a stickler about my credit.  13:59 - Tom (Host) Me too. My credit rating, oh my gosh. If mine isn't at least 800, something I freak out, oh my gosh.  14:04 - Anne (Host) Yeah, no, mine has to be like almost close to perfect, and when it goes down like two points, I'm like wait why? Why did that happen? Right? And it's just because you put a charge on it for a few hundred dollars, and then you pay it off next week and then everything's fine, so that's normal.  14:18 - Tom (Host) So all three of them told me at roughly the same time that there was a hard inquiry. So I clicked on all the emails and all three of them said that somebody was applying for a Discover credit card, I think in Salt Lake City, and someone was applying for a Capital One credit card in Delaware, and I was in New York City neither applying for a Discover credit card or a Capital One credit card. I certainly wasn't in Salt Lake City or Delaware at the same exact time.  14:49 - Anne (Host) You know, what's so interesting, Tom, is that, like I don't know, a few months ago I don't know if there was a discussion circulating or maybe I got an email but somebody said, and like I should have done this years ago, I mean you can freeze your account so that if you don't open up a credit card every other day which I'm certainly not right Because again, it affects my credit rating and I'm anal about that and so I'm like well, I don't need to apply for any other credit cards, so you can go and freeze that, so that you can actually reduce the risk of somebody trying to open up credit cards or identity theft.  15:19 So and it's super simple to do it, as I said, everybody should have that free account. You should log in, you should check your credit scores regularly I think they allow you once a month, I think even my credit cards. My American Express will tell me oh, your FICO score has changed, right, so they're monitoring it too, and so literally, I get lots of notifications when that rating goes up and down. But I know that I've reduced my chances of identity theft, which is a very scary thing, by freezing those accounts and it's very simple to unfreeze. So, if you know you want to apply for a credit card. You just got to go and unfreeze it for a certain amount of time so you can apply for it and then freeze it back up again. So that way it reduces the risk.  15:57 - Tom (Host) And all those emails that I got, all those notifications did give me the option to do that. I was also able to say this because it, literally, when Norton 360 popped up and it took me to their website, it literally said is this you and you can check yes or no? And I wrote no and then the whole screen turned red saying okay, we know this is a problem, we will look into it.  16:17 It did it with all those and then I called Capital One Bank. It took me a few people. It had to get escalated a couple of times to the credit card fraud department.  16:25 - Anne (Host) Well, don't you say, they give you a special number, right?  16:27 - Tom (Host) They say call this number if it's not you, or you can call this number. I just called the general number because all that was on the notification, I think, was the Capital One in Salt Lake City or something like that. So I called directly and said please state your problem. I'm like I think I'm getting my identity stolen. And then it got up there and then they manually rejected the credit card application at least for the Capital One.  16:50 And then this morning I got another Credit Karma email saying that there was a check on my Equifax report not the Experian one and I looked at the date of it. It also said yesterday. So that means Credit Karma had my back twice and Experian had my back and Norton had my back twice. Right, right, and Experian had my back and Norton had my back and everybody bosses. This is the takeaway. Creditkarmacom is free, having an account with Experian is free, it doesn't cost you a nickel.  17:18 - Anne (Host) All of them TransUnion, they're all free TransUnion, Equifax, they're all free.  17:23 Exactly and you can check your scores and, like I said, a lot of banks and a lot of credit cards are actually adding that on as like a value add kind of service, but you don't have to pay anything for it. I think there's a lot of it going on, Tom, which is kind of scary. We got to be careful about scammers, that's for sure. And anytime, even in your email, right, if you get like again, if I find something that doesn't have a signature and then they have an attachment like PayPal has been well-known scams where you get like oh, you've got a PayPal invoice, right, and you have to pay this amount and it looks legit. I mean, they've got like the PayPal logo. I've gotten quite a few of those over the last six months.  18:01 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And.  18:01 - Anne (Host) I just ignore anything. Just remember that most financial institutions will never email you for information and they'll never text you necessarily for that information either, and you should also, Tom. We should have a big discussion on having multi-factor authentication.  18:19 - Tom (Host) Yes.  18:19 - Anne (Host) This is extremely important.  18:21 - Tom (Host) It's annoying as hell or two-factor, two-factor authentication For every account that you have, especially the financial ones, you should have two-factor authentication, which means either they send you a text message and you just click on the link and you're good to go, or it sends you an email and it'll usually give you a passcode of some sort and then you go to the website. When you're trying to log on, you enter that passcode and then it'll let you do it, and most of them are only good. Some of them are only good for 30 days. Sometimes you can check a box saying this is my private computer. It's okay for a certain amount of time, or they make you do it every single time, which isn't the worst thing in the world. Yes, it's annoying.  18:55 - Anne (Host) You know what I just thought about. It is annoying but it keeps you safe. It's funny how much like value you put in that number, that phone number, in this phone which, by the way, I just got a new phone but in this number for the two-factor authentication, right Like text me at this number. So think of the power that these phone companies have right, and that is scary. I mean it used to be a thing where I always thought like the large scale communication companies were a little bit of a monopoly, depending on the area that you're in. I mean, when I lived in the East Coast it was always Verizon right, verizon everything, verizon this, verizon that. Out here it's a couple of different companies but still, if you think about it, I mean I'm glad to have the two-factor authentication and it's super convenient on the phone.  19:39 But, it's interesting to know that you wouldn't want the hackers to get smart right and then start really infiltrating the phone, you know, and impersonating a phone number.  19:50 - Tom (Host) There's a couple of things about that is that, when it comes to authentication, when you're logging on your phone, I've got it set up where I just use my thumbprint for a lot of it.  19:59 - Anne (Host) I love that, or Face ID yeah the Face ID is a great one.  20:05 - Tom (Host) There's also a thing for a lot of the websites where I have a personal PIN that has nothing to do with the PIN or the password to access the site itself. If I am using my phone to log in somewhere, I can enter a four-digit PIN that's different from everything else, so it also increases the chance of having a secure whatever. Also, just as a rule, I don't do anything financial on my phone, with the exception of like Venmo Well, I have mobile banking If I'm like sending money if, like me, and the guys are having pizza, you know what I mean.  20:31 - Anne (Host) I have mobile banking and I do have Apple Pay.  20:35 - Tom (Host) Well, I have GPay too.  20:36 - Anne (Host) Yeah, so.  20:36 - Tom (Host) I'm a Google guy but like I will unless to my bank accounts online or Wave app or Wise or PayPal on the phone, unless I absolutely have to.  20:49 - Anne (Host) Interesting. I go to them quite a bit. Actually, you're probably fine because of all the precautions that you're taking, but I'm just a little extra neurotic about it. Oh, it's constantly got multi-factor authentication, but I get that. I totally get that. Wow, yeah, being careful, and you know what.  21:02 What's interesting is, back in the day and I'm going to date myself when I was working at the school and we had text-based email okay, and text-based email, I could have something and it was all based on like the Unix systems and so like hacking into a text-based, like I don't know how to say this, but hacking into a system like that, like a Unix system, and reading your email with text-based, you didn't always have like the conditions of people attaching things that could be viral, loading a virus on your computer. So I was always proud to say that I used text-based email and I used something called a PGP signature, which was a digital signature at the time, which meant that when I sent mail out, my PGP signature, it would actually negotiate and verify with the person that I would send it to so that it could be a verified digital signature. That indeed, yes, this mail did come from me, and I think that Norton probably has something like that now right. Is that with your email or no?  21:59 - Tom (Host) Yeah, it has all kinds of functions.  22:01 And it works on my desktop and it works on my laptop and it works on my phone. The most important function that it has is when I'm not home and I'm on my phone or my laptop or my tablet is the VPN when you can turn it on to make sure that if you're using Wi-Fi at a cafe or something like that, that it's secure, because apparently there are people who just like sitting around at a Panera or a Starbucks with their laptop and just waiting for someone to have an insecure Wi-Fi connection and they can just steal their life right there through their own laptop.  22:31 - Anne (Host) Well, it's funny how this conversation has turned into a big security conversation, starting off with scamming. Which guys you got to be aware? It's one of the reasons why, for all of my years and because of my years working in technology, I like wired connections. I mean Wi-Fi. I mean it's a wonderful technology and it's convenient as anything. However, it's not as secure as a wired connection, because a wired connection is basically, you know, your digital numbers flowing back and forth along a wire, versus all this information out in the air where, if somebody is sitting outside of my home, they can possibly hack into my wireless network and then they can run some sort of a tracer to see and to actually get my passwords, which is something that you don't really want that to happen. So you should really be cautious, guys, and I think it's always a good idea that, if you are working from home, if you have the opportunity to have a wired connection to your router, I think that that's better rather than using Wi-Fi. Number one it's more stable, right, it's faster and it's also more secure.  23:32 - Tom (Host) I agree. If you have a desktop at home and you are doing any kind of recording or you're doing basically anything, you should have an ethernet connection. That yellow wire with the big old phone jack that plugs right into the back of your computer and plugs into your Wi-Fi router.  23:47 - Anne (Host) And it sounds old school, but it's still the most secure method of data transfer.  23:51 - Tom (Host) Without question so if you are recording from home. If you're doing whatever from home, you have a desktop ethernet. If you have a laptop, I are recording from home. If you're doing whatever from home, you have a desktop Ethernet. If you have a laptop, I think the newer laptops don't even have an Ethernet connection. I have to think about my laptop and whether I even have one anymore, and here's the simple reason.  24:06 - Anne (Host) Think about it. It's a wire, guys. It's a wire. It's not like data floating around in the air which people can listen to. Somehow the frequency of the data traveling in the air right? Wi-fi works on frequencies when your data is traveling via a wire like a physical cable, unless somebody like I don't even know, unless they tap into that wire, right, somehow.  24:26 I don't know how they do that, and we're talking about your wire in your house going from your computer to your router. Right, that's as secure as it gets, right, unless somebody's coming into your house and hacking into the wire and tapping into it.  24:38 - Tom (Host) You've got some foreign embassy bugging your home.  24:41 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, doing some fancy work, you're not going to have to worry about your data being transferred. So if you're working on the internet right, at least the data that's transferring from your house to your router is absolutely secure. And then it's up to your internet provider right on the router, to their routers, to make sure that things are encrypted, things are secure and for the most part I mean that's been handled right. I mean there are hackers out there that they can hack into networks. They can hack into things like that, but you want to be as safe as you possibly can, so wired is best.  25:14 - Tom (Host) Yes, it's fascinating. We talk about hard security and soft security, yes, that's hard security, that's hard security.  25:20 - Anne (Host) So, if we go back to talking about the scams that are floating around these days, one thing I wanted to mention is I think one of the best applications for groups, facebook groups and social media groups and discussion groups is for that thing, so that you and Bridget were talking to one another about this job that you both got, and then it's really wonderful that we can come together as a community and protect each other right and say, hey, look, watch out for the scam. So it is one of the best advantages, I would say, of being a part of the social media groups in that way. Otherwise, we've talked about how it's hard to sometimes they're toxic, sometimes it's really hard to be on social media. But I would say one of the best reasons to be on social media, in those groups and in those forums, would be because of the protection that you're getting of us banding together and saying, hey, watch out, this is a scam.  26:09 - Tom (Host) Absolutely, it's one of the most important things. Community is more than just about you know rah rah and whoop whoop and you know we support you and feel better if you're feeling down, but like just actual education, along with inspiration and commiseration can literally save your identity Absolutely.  26:27 - Anne (Host) Wow, what a great conversation, Tom. So bosses out there, be aware of scams. Be cautious. Research, research. Take a look at those signatures when you get emails coming in, when you get something that's asking for lots of words and a good price and it seems too good to be true, guess what it might be. So make sure that you're communicating with the community as well, checking those jobs out and attach that AI rider to every one of your jobs. Now, it's simple. It's there at NAVA and it's free. You can attach that rider to every job. If you have a new client, make sure you're very careful with the payment options. You know we spoke about that. I always make sure I get money up front, or partial money up front, first to make sure that it's a legit client. What else did I miss, Tom, in this recap?  27:14 - Tom (Host) Hardware and software VPNs.  27:16 - Anne (Host) EINs yes.  27:19 - Tom (Host) Oh yeah, VPNs, EINs, Two-factor authentication.  27:20 - Anne (Host) I love it. Yeah, Make sure you guys are implementing all of that to keep yourself safe and secure. So great topic, Tom. I like geeking out like this.  27:30 - Tom (Host) Yeah, it's fun and helpful.  27:31 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I'm going to give a great big shout out to my sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like real bosses. Find out more at IPDTL.com. Guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  27:52 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.