VO BOSS

BOSSes, are you ready to nail those voiceover auditions? In this episode of the VO Boss podcast, Anne Ganguzza talks with special guest Kelly Moscinski, owner and head of casting at The VoiceCaster. Kelly, who oversees thousands of auditions, reveals what truly stands out to casting directors and how you can stop being predictable to book more jobs. Get ready to transform your approach to commercial auditions with invaluable insights straight from the source!   00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguzza Productions, I specialize in target marketed coaching and demo production that gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at anneganguzza.com.  00:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a vo boss. Now let's welcome your host and gang guza hey everyone, welcome to the vo boss podcast.  00:44 - Anne (Host) I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am thrilled to welcome very special guest, Kelly Moscinski. Kelly, the owner and head of casting at the Voice Caster, which, very impressively, is the oldest voiceover casting house in the country, established in 1975. So, with almost 20 years of experience in voiceover and even more in entertainment, Kelly casts and directs all things voiceover. She's also a coach for voice actors, teaching group classes, private coaching, and I am so excited that she's going to be teaching a VO Boss workshop coming up on July 16th, which I am super excited for. She is also the founder of the VoiceCaster Lab, a digital VO training and community platform offering a variety of learn-at-your-own-pace courses, seminars, a membership community and other resources dedicated to giving voiceover artists the chance to learn from the casting perspective, which is so, so important. Kelly, it is absolutely wonderful to have you here today. Thank you so much.  01:43 - Kelly (Guest) Thank you so much for having me.  01:45 - Anne (Host) I am just excited to chat with you. It's been I feel like it's been not so long ago that I saw you, but, like we always, we're like we kind of just pass each other because we're always like on these schedules which are insanely busy, and I always think that you know, I think I'm pretty busy in this industry, but my goodness, you're doing an awful lot over there at the Voice Caster with your classes and you've got all sorts of fun new things that I've seen you come out with this year. So for the bosses who are not familiar with you, let's let's kind of start at the beginning and tell us a little bit about how you got started in the industry and your casting journey. What led you to the voice caster?  02:24 - Kelly (Guest) For me it was, you know I did. I did drama club, you know theater in high school. When I went to college I originally went to school for pre-med. I wanted to be a psychiatrist, so I was focusing on psychology and then from there it was just. I was so involved in the theater department and eventually, after, after a little hesitation, I decided to get my degree in theater instead of following the pre-med path I had.  02:51 And then I got my master's degree in writing and you know it was kind of while I was working on that that you know I had friends. I was doing a ton of directing. So I just had some friends who were like working at local radio and TV stations. They'd ask me for advice on an actor. You know I need this kind of a voice for a spot, you know. So I was starting to do some voiceover before I even really realized what I was getting into. And then I moved out to Los Angeles and you know I had actually interviewed in the same week at voice caster and at a talent agency the same week at VoiceCaster and at a talent agency. Talent agency wanted to bring me on as an agent and VoiceCaster wanted me to come on as a casting assistant and I was like you know what I feel like casting is my calling. You know, I get to, I get to cast, I get to direct. You know there were opportunities to teach. You know, like, all of the things I wanted were kind of all in one with VoiceCaster. And, you know, as soon as I walked into the office, I was like, yeah, this is home. And so I kind of knew right away. And then that was in 2009.  03:55 In 2013, the previous owner, huck Liggett, came to me and said I'm retiring, I'm gone in two weeks. Do you want to take over? I've had other offers. Yeah, he's like. I had other offers, a lot of money, he's like, but I don't want just anyone to take over. Wow, and so he's like, if you don't want it, we're closing down the doors. Wow, yeah.  04:20 - Anne (Host) And wow, what a compliment.  04:22 - Kelly (Guest) That's amazing, wow, yeah yeah, and it's funny because I actually had just gotten back from a week vacation when he came to me on that Monday and like he's like pulled me aside. I thought I was getting fired, I was like oh no, what's going on?  04:36 Like what did I do?  04:37 What happened while I was gone? It was only a week. Who knew it was going to be the next big step in my career? And yeah, so, within, within within two weeks, I took over completely, so it was a very quick transition but, like I said, as soon as my foot stepped in that office, I just knew that this is where I was going to going to be.  04:59 - Anne (Host) You know it's, isn't that? Isn't that funny. It's like when you step into a home, when you're buying a home, and all of a sudden you're like, oh yeah, this is it. I have so many questions because you seem to just go from like, oh, I went to school for, and then I went into education and then went into voiceover and did you get any pushback from people in your life that said, hey, it's obvious that you have multiple talents, and there's always those people, kind of the naysayers, that are like, really Like theater or the arts. There's always those people, that kind of the naysayers that are like really like, yeah, theater, or you know the arts. And so tell us, did you have any pushback from, let's say, you know, family members or loved ones about that?  05:53 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. You know, it's one of those things where I I originally was like, oh, I can't just go into theater, so maybe I can, maybe I can teach theater. So I decided to take the education track, kind of in between that and within like three semesters, I think I I basically I had all of the classes I had needed for an education degree. I just never did the student teaching, so I could have gotten my education degree as well. But instead I was like no, I just I want to commit to this, this is all I can see myself doing. So why? Why have the plan B? You know, it's like when you have plan B, you fall back on plan B and it's like I don't, I'm not, yeah, that's it.  06:36 - Anne (Host) That's a really, that's a really great perspective.  06:38 I like that Because you, you felt it and I think you and you went for it and that's that's so.  06:45 I love that because I feel like I'm kind of that person too, like, if you feel so strongly about it, I feel like, well, that's where I'm supposed to be and that's where I should be, and I feel like my work ethic was there to drive it to the place where it needed to be. And I think a lot of times I never second guess my work, my intuition, my gut feeling I feel like that might be the same thing for you, absolutely, absolutely. So then, along the way right to becoming like, first of all, to have someone say to you I'm going to close the doors if you don't take over First of all, that's what a compliment. And and so obviously I mean there was, there's just a ton of talent there, did you have? Have? It sounds like you had no hardships a long way, but I feel like you might have, like I definitely did so tell us about maybe you know a hardship or something that was a challenge for you.  07:42 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, yeah. So I mean, first of all it was, you know, through through college my dad was battling leukemia and so it's like he was actually in a hospital in the same city that I was going to school, and so you know I was going over there every day before rehearsals, after classes, you know, anytime I could kind of sneak in, I would go over to the hospital and see him.  08:05 You know, and it's like he couldn't come to my graduation, he couldn't come to some of our shows because just too many people. And you know, and it's like he couldn't come to my graduation, he couldn't come to some of our shows because just too many people. And you know, when you're going through cancer treatments you have to be careful of that Part of I stuck around to get my master's degree. I think I would have probably left after my bachelor's degree, but I stuck around to get my master's degree. I started dating my now husband and so I was like I guess I'll stick around for this guy, I'll stick around for my family, you know.  08:33 And I was originally going to go to New York because I wanted to work in the Broadway world, you know. And then he actually convinced me, my husband, travis, convinced me to come to LA. So we moved to LA with nothing and it took me. I sent out back in the day when you send out, you know, cover letters and resumes through the mail.  08:54 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I remember those days, Not email.  08:56 - Kelly (Guest) I do remember those days I sent out over 350 just different casting offices, talent agencies, knowing like this is where I want to be and I can be a very determined person. It can be challenging and, you know, it's like we went through all of our savings, like we had nothing. And it was very much one of those things where I'm like okay, I took a theater job here, I took another job here. It's like I started to work, you know, retail customer service it lasted about three days and then a theater job, you know, and then a theater job fell in my lap.  09:33 They weren't willing to work with my theater hours, so I was like, well, I'm going to take the lower paying job because it's what I want to do. And that's actually how I met Catherine originally, and you know so it's like I was just taking all these things that I could stage, managing, you know things like that. It was like we have to do something to make money and it's like sure, luckily, you know, my husband was like he does construction as well. So he ended up working for a couple of TV shows where he was building sets. And then Huck called and he was like I have been hanging on to your resume since I got it last June and just waiting for an opening. So it's like he kind of knew this was perfect.  10:13 It came at the perfect timing. You know, it's one of those things where I'm like I always feel like things fall into place exactly when they're supposed to. You know, when they're supposed to, we yeah, we were in that limbo of like are we really going to make it here? You know, like we're going to have to start borrowing money from family or something soon. Like what, what are we doing? Like this is crazy. So yeah, then, then you know, voice caster fell into place and there's that determination.  10:43 - Anne (Host) I think that that came through. Yes, yeah, that's so interesting because I mean I have a little bit of a similar story when we moved out west, I mean from the East Coast, and you know, we moved out for a job for my husband and ultimately, nine months later, he got, like you know, he got laid off. And so then everybody said, well, when are you coming back? And I'm like, no, no, no. And I was like, oh, by the way, I quit my job in education and said, oh, I'm going to try to do this voiceover thing full time. So, Jerry, you're going to have to, like you know, float me for a little bit. And, interestingly enough, we just determination. I was like I am not going back because I love the weather too much and I really was starting to love.  11:23 California, I was like I don't want to go back to the snow and the property taxes, but I did love the East Coast but yeah, and it was like I was just determined to make that work. So, yeah, good for you. I mean wow. And so let's talk a little bit about casting and your love for casting and you said in your bio connection beats perfection every time. I'd love to hear you elaborate on that in terms of, you know, casting either a voice talent or just any kind of talent.  11:58 - Kelly (Guest) Honestly, that is kind of my theory in life. You know, I mean it's in voiceover, it is just in life. You know, it's one of those things where so often I feel like we all strive for some sort of level of perfection. I'm guilty.  12:13 - Anne (Host) Yeah.  12:13 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Oh, me too.  12:14 - Kelly (Guest) Me too, and it's something that we set for ourselves. You know, it's like we set this bar for ourselves. Nobody else is telling us what perfect means, you know. So it's like we're putting these things on ourselves. And you know, it is one of those things where I always say 70% perfect is perfect. It does not have to be perfect. You know, done is better than perfect. Connection over perfection is my way of saying. I would much rather hear you connected to the script and connected, having a point of view, having an intention having an audience.  12:56 All of that versus every word being perfectly articulate. A few weeks ago I actually just I cast somebody in in a in a. It was a commercial and she actually slurred a word. Most people wouldn't even submit that audition, right, it's like Ooh, I got to clean that up. No, it was one of those things where so often now I am hearing clients say we want to hear the humanness, we want to hear the imperfections, we want to hear the flaws. So it's not about being perfect. They'll make you perfect in the session If you want to book the job. It is more about having that connection and that's something that we can hear in those first three to five seconds that we listen to.  13:30 - Anne (Host) Oh gosh, yes, I love that and I love that you say that, because I mean I always in my, in my, in my genres that I'm that I'm kind of known for in corporate narration and e-learning everybody thinks articulation is, you know, they have to say it perfectly. I'm like, please don't, because that's super robotic and super boring and it just it's not something that that people like to listen to for any length of time, maybe for a few words. I can handle it if you do something articulately. But I'm that teacher that will say, please, I mean, don't. I mean I just need to understand you, but you know, slur it a little bit, like jam those words together.  14:06 I don't, I don't need to hear perfection at all. As a matter of fact, please don't. I just I can't, I can't listen to more than a sentence of it. And so I love that you say that as well, because I think really and you also, you know, talked about hearing that from the very beginning, like from the first words of the script you can hear it if somebody is not connected and you can hear it if they're just kind of glossing over the words or reading the words. Let's talk a little bit more about that the importance of, because in in our workshop, which I'm going to have you talk about in just a minute, I mean it's all about auditioning for your, for commercial genres, and so what is it that gets listened to? What is it that that books the gig or gets them shortlisted?  14:47 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, it comes down to personality. It comes down to you know? Do they sound like they have an opinion? Do they sound like they're connected to the copy? Is there something else going on besides? I'm reading a commercial script. You know so. We hear so many commercials. You know we have all heard thousands and thousands of commercials that when we look at a script, we know what it's going to sound like. Yes, it's like there's a melody in our head that we play. Oh, it's such a battle then to get out of it, yeah.  15:16 But really like that's not the read, that's going to book the job right it's going to be the thing that is just uniquely you, where it's like oh wow, the final spot would never be like that, but you showed the personality, you made the choices, you had the commitment and that is what stands out. That's what books you the job. And then you get into the session and that's when they're like okay, well, let's clean this up, let's smooth this out, let's inflict, and all of a sudden it sounds exactly like you heard in your head, but you will not book the job if you give that read.  15:47 - Anne (Host) Because it's boring. Can we just? Let's just say that one more time for the bosses out there, Because I've had so many students say, but that's not what I hear and I'm like, but that's not what I'm teaching. I'm teaching you to audition and get the job first, and then whatever happens happens. I mean you don't need me as a coach to tell you what it sounds like in your head. We all hear it and I think we all innately know what that melody is and you don't need me to coach you, but you need me to coach you how to be an actor so that you can get the job. And then ultimately I love that you said it does A lot of times it will end up sounding like what we heard in our head. But to get the job you've got to show the people that are listening, or at least get their attention, because everybody else hears that same melody in their head. And if you're listening, tell us what it's like to listen to 200 auditions in a row with the same melody, with everybody just being predictable. I think it's the person that you know.  16:42 And let's talk a little bit more about point of view, because I think sometimes people don't understand what point of view means, and especially when it comes to commercial. Well, shouldn't I have a point of view, that is, of the company that I'm working for? Or how do I have my own point of view, and why does that matter? And so people would ask me that as well. Why should I have a point of view when it comes to e-learning? Why should I have a point of view when it comes to corporate? Why should I have a point of view for an explainer? Let's talk about point of view.  17:07 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, so point of view. There's a few different parts to it. So first of all there is. You know what point of view are you coming from? Are you coming from the company point of?  17:18 - Anne (Host) view.  17:18 - Kelly (Guest) Are you the pro? Are you the expert? Do you know what you're talking about? I can tell you that you know for certain products, you have to be a certain level of expert on the product, otherwise, you know, how are we going to trust you?  17:33 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) when you're talking about.  17:34 - Kelly (Guest) You know medical or pharmaceutical, or you know something like that, where it's like we need to be able to trust you. However, there's also the other side, where it's you are the user. Did you just discover this and you're excited to share it, or have you been using it for a little bit and you want to share it with your friend or you know? So it's like you can either be the expert or you can be the real life user of the product. So usually, especially if we're sticking into the conversational zone, then you're going to want to be the user. You don't want to, even if the script says our product blah, blah, blah, or we do this, blah, blah, blah or we do this, like when it's very clearly from the brand point of view, you still need to. Your point of view should still be more personal than that.  18:16 - Anne (Host) Exactly.  18:22 - Kelly (Guest) You know the product, you love the product, but also having an opinion, you know, and it's like not just the anticipated opinion or the typical opinion, it right. It's like if there's something in the script that is like, wow, this is really cool, like then let us hear how cool you think, that is Like that's something that's going to stand out. It's going to be different when other people do. You know, it's like so many commercials they have three product features, right, and so it's like some people say, oh, we'll build each of those or give each one a little bit of a different. You know coloring or you know things like that. And it's like my thing is which is your favorite? Yeah, absolutely, tell me which one is your favorite.  19:03 - Anne (Host) That's going to stick with me more than anything else from a company standpoint, unless you're in some sort of a parody or a character dialogue right where you're going to be angry about it or you're going to be mad about it, or you're going to be crying about it or you won't like it. Right, for the most part, you have to come from that place of authority. You have to like the product, you have to believe in it, and I think that's where the shades of the point of view of you can come through. That and you can make that choice. Like I like how you said, like some people will be like OK, there's different shades of your point of view for different features, but I think as an actor, you make that choice. You make that choice about what do you think is a little bit more important than the other. Not that they're not you know, features are not important but like, maybe one you like a little bit better than the other. No-transcript, no-transcript in front of you, I think.  20:15 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, yeah.  20:16 - Anne (Host) Point of view, I think is so, so important, and especially coming in with a point of view in the first few words or the first line. And so let me ask you, out of so many auditions that you would get, how often do you listen to the entire audition, do you? I mean, can you just yeah, like you know right?  20:34 - Kelly (Guest) away, I know. So everybody gets about three to five seconds, you know, and that is also why I say like lead, lead with your riskier, take your bolder take the one with the personality, because you only get three to five seconds. You know, on any given project, I have usually between 400 and 1200 auditions.  20:53 - Anne (Host) Wow, that's a lot it gets crazy.  20:56 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, yeah. So it's like I can't give people more than three to five seconds. So then from there I'm sorting all of the auditions. Once I narrow it down, then I will look at the people that I, you know, passed on to the second round, and usually by that point I have like 100 left, maybe 150.  21:13 - Anne (Host) Wow, and then I will listen to. I'm just thinking. I'm taking the lower number right 400 auditions and you give them five seconds a piece. How long is that I mean? How long does it take you to? You know what I mean? Is it a day? What does that break down to? Hours?  21:27 - Kelly (Guest) Start to finish in a project like that, I mean I can. There are some projects I mean on the lower end. It's like I can knock them out in a couple hours. Yeah, yeah yeah, so that's a lot to listen to in a couple hours.  21:38 - Anne (Host) Yes, so that's why leading with the riskier one, leading with the one that is even. Sometimes I'll even say it's got to be a different melody.  21:52 - Kelly (Guest) But I don't want you to think about it as a melody, right? Think about it as a different point of view that drives the fact that it sounds different. Yeah, yeah, you emphasize a different word because you have a different intention on that take, or you know, yeah, things like that and I love that.  21:59 - Anne (Host) you said like I. Actually, you said that there was a slur on somebody that you cast. And the funny thing is is I have a favorite corporate corporate video that I play when I speak at places and I talk about corporate and how it really is storytelling. And one of my favorite corporate videos is voiced by an artist that has a rasp and a lisp and she slurs her words a little bit and it's the most beautiful take because her point of view is nuanced and it actually brings you along this journey throughout this two minute, this two minute video, and you don't even have to watch the this two minute, this two minute video. And you don't even have to watch the video, you can just listen to it.  22:38 It's so nuanced that I thought to myself gosh, I usually will give somebody the script and I'll say well, this, this is super easy to just say conversationally, right, but she had so many different notes of so many different points of view that she just really told the story and I think that that is the most important thing. And when it comes to commercials, let's talk about stories in commercials. Are you a believer that every commercial has a story to tell?  23:07 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, yeah, you know it's one of those things where it's like there is the commercials happening because there is something either new or improved right, so it's like there's always a problem and solution. And so, you know, the problem is because things are happening to real people, so it really is figuring out the story and that's why, you know, having that point of view, but also an intention you know, your intention is obviously not to sell, right? I mean, of course it is, it's a commercial.  23:36 - Anne (Host) But I have to sound like you're selling.  23:37 - Kelly (Guest) Exactly, exactly. You're either getting them excited or you're reassuring them, or you're informing someone, or you know there's so many different things that you can play that are not to sell. But yeah, it's absolutely telling that story. You know, even even in the short scripts, you know there's still something behind that.  23:55 And part of your job as an actor is what is that? What is that pre life? You know, it's like I always say a commercial should be thought of like a slice of life. It is mid conversation. Something is happening before this that prompted you to say this to somebody. Something is going to happen after this.  24:12 - Anne (Host) And there's pre life, I think, for every genre. Somebody, something is going to happen after this. And there's pre-life, I think, for every genre for every script really Absolutely.  24:17 And I think there's pre-life also which I try to teach, because if I'm doing longer format narration, you can't forget about life in the middle of the script or life three quarters of the way through the script, because a lot of times people will just slip back into that kind of melody and it's really hard to keep someone engaged. I mean, you think it's hard to keep someone engaged for 60 seconds, right? I mean, try to keep them engaged for a couple of minutes and that is. I think that the pre-life can happen before many sentences in that script and I think that it's important to consider that as you go through the script, that it's important to consider that as you go through the script. So what would you say is the biggest mistake that voice actors make in their auditions?  25:07 - Kelly (Guest) Either just is an immediate dismissal or sometimes angers you. So two things come to mind. First thing is labeling following the instructions. First thing is labeling following the instructions. Like it sounds so basic, but out of 400 auditions I'll usually have at least 20 or 30 who aren't even labeled correctly. So I don't even give, I don't even give them five seconds, they just instantly are like nope, I'm done. They couldn't follow instructions. So that's number one.  25:30 - Anne (Host) Isn't that funny. That's your number one.  25:31 - Kelly (Guest) I know, I know.  25:34 - Anne (Host) Yeah, follow instructions. I'm like that too. I'm like my God, if you can't even name it right, yeah, yeah, because that's. I feel like I will take that as a personal insult to my time, because I literally, if I can't 400, you said 400 to a thousand. Yeah, oh, my goodness, I can't imagine, like, handling a thousand files and if they're not named correctly, right, and you can't like organ. I mean, it's so, organization is so important when it comes to, you know, figuring out who am I, you know, who do I like? Here's my shortlist, here's, you know, who are you going to recommend? And I think, yeah, file naming is so, so darn important, and I don't understand why it's so difficult sometimes that's how I am too.  26:17 - Kelly (Guest) I'm like oh, I try to keep it so simple in our instructions.  26:20 - Anne (Host) you know and you know but okay, so file naming is one, what's another, what's another?  26:25 - Kelly (Guest) The other one is trying to be who you think we want you to be, giving us the read that you think is the right read or the read that we want, I will tell you that we don't know what we want. The client doesn't know what they want. It's like they might have an idea, but sometimes they hear something different and they're like oh, that's brilliant, and so don't try to be what you think we want you to be. You have to be yourself, because what we want is you as you are you?  26:57 - Anne (Host) know authentic unapologetically, you and I think sometimes would you say that the creative process is not complete yet. A lot of times we think we're the last, we're the last to be hired. And so I feel sometimes when people are like, well, I didn't expect that, you know, I auditioned for that and I did not expect that one to book the job, when I feel like, even if the casting specs, if it's something completely different than the casting specs, so would you say that if somebody writes the casting specs nine times out of 10, does it turn out to be different than what they're looking for?  27:28 - Kelly (Guest) or yeah, or some variation of it, because you know, you've seen the specs where they're like, oh, we want it really like mellow and laid back, but it has to have high energy and be upbeat. And it's like, you know, the specs contradict each other and so it's like, well then, what do they want? Typically, that's because there are multiple people in these meetings and it's like, oh okay, one person wants it laid back and mellow, another wants it upbeat, with high energy, and so those get kind of mushed into one. So that's kind of you know, you don't know what they want, because there are six people deciding and they all want different things.  28:05 - Anne (Host) Ah, yeah, right, so it's not always just one person that's deciding. And let's talk about the copywriting, because there's a lot of times when the copywriting doesn't match what the specs really want, like, they'll say, conversational, but yet the writing will be very silly. And so what? What is your best advice for voice actors in that case?  28:27 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, so a couple of things. First of all, I always recommend recording a couple of takes before you even look at the specs. You know. So it's like you do whatever, whatever your instinct is, and then look at the specs and see you know how that changes. That might be a different take, it might be you scrap all the other stuff you know all together.  28:48 But it is tricky when it is written as an announcer script introducing the all new blah, blah, blah, you know, and it's like, oh, but we want it conversational, super casual you know. So it is a matter of you know. I always say subtext first of all, so instead of introducing, it's like hey, check this out, or you know kind of substituting that in your mind Making sure I think the biggest thing when they're asking for conversational authentic is making sure that you are still connecting, you still have that point of view.  29:20 You still have that intention. It's really easy to lose when you have a word like introducing or something that's very selly.  29:29 So it's kind of, you know, still keeping that story, keeping all of the, the acting elements in there is key. And then if you find like, ah, I can't get out of this, it's just sounding so silly, it's sounding so announcer-y, then honestly lean into that and do a take or two like that, because then you have it out, you have it there and you're not fighting yourself. So it's a little easier, once you get that out, to then try to try to just bring it in a little bit more and personalize.  29:59 - Anne (Host) Would you, would you then recommend to maybe have that take as the second take? Yeah, like, and if you are encouraging people to do more than one take per audition, absolutely.  30:10 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, if it's your only take to send, I wouldn't do it because they're going to be like I didn't follow directions. But absolutely, especially if you know, a lot of times we ask for two or three takes, that'd be a great second or third take, you know especially if you know it felt good as you were doing it, Then yay, and you're going to be doing a VO Boss now, because VO Peeps is now merged into VO Boss.  30:37 - Anne (Host) but you're going to be doing a VO Boss workout for commercial auditioning, so talk a little bit about what we're going to cover in that class.  30:44 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah. So one of the things going back to these three to five seconds, that is something that I want to make sure that we cover. So I am actually putting together, I'm stringing together three to five seconds of multiple auditions, 5060 auditions so you can hear what I get to hear on the casting side.  31:02 - Anne (Host) So love that.  31:03 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, so you it. That's. That's a gem. You'll be able to hear if if people are connected or not. You'll be able to hear I love that everything that you can hear. And then I'll play the final. You know, I'll play the audition that booked it and then the final spot so that you can kind of see, you know, how things change throughout the process. But I think kind of giving you a glance into the casting side.  31:26 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that.  31:27 - Kelly (Guest) Will help you realize like, oh, okay, it's like I can say it a million times, but until you hear it it's not going to stick. And then you will never look at the opening sentence of your auditions the same again. You know it's going to transform how you read and what you submit.  31:44 - Anne (Host) I feel like that is probably one of the most important things is that very first sentence and I always talk about.  31:50 I talk about it in terms of like melody, in terms of singing, like if you just start with the first word and you don't have a pre-life, it all starts pretty much on the same note and I feel like that's not, that's not necessarily in starting it in the right way or starting it in the way that's going to showcase the fact that you are, have a pre-life and that you're connected and you have a story to tell and a purpose, and so that's very I'm very excited about. Wow, that's going to be really, really valuable for our listeners, so very excited about that. Bosses, I'm quite sure, by the time we air this, that we may be sold out. I'm not sure, but you can always check out vobosscom and we'll be having audit tickets as well as participants. So I'm so excited, Kelly, that you're going to be doing this and tell us a little bit about because we kind of do similar things. I mean, we have a membership, we have a community, we coach classes. Tell us a little bit about your classes and your community.  32:50 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. Through VoiceCaster, we have all different levels of classes, beginning to pros. We do commercial, we have animation and video games, we have an accent class. All of those are live classes that we do. Most of themover learn at your own pace course, as well as our signature Finding your Authentic Voice course as well, and you know so. Those are both learn at your own pace kind of a thing. And then, on top of that, we also have our VoiceCaster Insiders membership, which is an online community. We do weekly workouts open to all members. We do monthly calls for any. You know q&a, all of that. We do monthly challenges where you can, you know, working on different parts of the business, performance, business mindset. You know all of that. And we do prizes at the end. And then nice.  33:53 Yeah, and then we have daily things. So we have like our Monday motivation, our take action Tuesday, wednesday wisdom, you know. So it's like we're doing things seven days a week and yeah, it's just, it's been a great community for people just to kind of have a place to go as a sounding board and you know, doing, doing the workouts and you know all of that, sure. So yeah, that's that's been a lot of fun for us, as well as the workouts and you know all of that, sure, um, so yeah, that's that's been a lot of fun for us, as well. As the members and myself, ben and katherine, are, you know, active in there every day. So yeah.  34:23 - Anne (Host) So I'm gonna ask you what people ask me. How do you do it all? I don't sleep yeah, I hear that I hear that, yeah, that's lot, that's a lot.  34:35 - Kelly (Guest) Yeah, it is, it is a lot and it's, you know, it's really prioritizing my days. You know, kind of figuring out as much as I can, because you also know like we're in a business where things change real quick and it's like hey, I need to get somebody in for a session. Hey, I need this casting done by yesterday. Hey, you know putting out fires but trying to, you know, have have my set schedule as much as possible as well.  35:00 - Anne (Host) Well, oh my gosh, it's been so, it's been so nice talking with you.  35:04 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I really really enjoyed this conversation.  35:06 - Anne (Host) I'm very excited about our workshop that's coming up guys July 16th and check that at VeoBosscom and, I guess, leave us with your one best piece of advice for anybody new coming into this industry. What would you recommend?  35:22 - Kelly (Guest) Be you, be uniquely you. Whatever makes you you. Be that and always you know in everything that you do. I mean that's life advice, but it's also voiceover advice. You know it's like, just be yourself. You know, if you are determined, if you have the passion, if you have the love for this industry, then show up as yourself, and that is going to take you further than anything else.  35:50 - Anne (Host) Love it, love it. Thank you so much again, bosses. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Thank you, Thanks.  36:08 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble tackle a crucial and often uncomfortable topic for voiceover professionals: money and debt. Prompted by Danielle's recent experience with an unexpected studio investment due to a flood, they delve into whether voice actors should go into debt to fund their careers. This episode explores personal relationships with debt, strategic financial planning, and the importance of financial literacy in building a sustainable voiceover business. They emphasize distinguishing between impulsive spending and calculated investments, advocating for a data-driven approach to financial decisions.   00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguzza Productions, I specialize in target marketed coaching and demo production that gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at anneganguzza.com.  00:21 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:40 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and you are here with the Boss Money Talk series, and I am here with Danielle Famble. I am so excited, Danielle. It's been so long I feel like it's been an age since I've spoken to you. Hey.  00:56 - Danielle (Host) But it was just last month. Yeah, I know it hasn't been that long, but it's good to be back.  01:01 - Anne (Host) Yay, and you know talking about. One of our favorite subjects is money, money, money, money. And speaking of, I noticed you're in a sparkly new booth there, oh, this whole thing it looks like a.  01:12 - Danielle (Host) Studio Bricks. To me this is a Studio Bricks One Plus booth and I've had it for a little while now and, yeah, it's great.  01:23 - Anne (Host) Well, having investigated those studios myself, I do know that's quite an investment it is quite the investment.  01:31 - Danielle (Host) It is an investment that I took quite a long time to get to. It was not an impulse buy, but it was a purchase of necessity.  01:41 Sad news is my apartment flooded and I lost my previous apartment and also booth along the way, and so it was time to get a new booth, and I knew exactly what I wanted to get. Is there insurance for that sort of thing, like for my apartment? And so it was. My previous booth was reimbursed essentially the cost of that booth, but it was not. It was a less expensive booth than this one, obviously, so there was a delta that I had.  02:16 - Anne (Host) So you do have. Yeah, so you did. You did have some, you did have some recovery money for that but you know, it, it. It poses an interesting question. You know you, it seems to, I did yes voiceover talent. Or should you know people that want to get into the voiceover industry go into debt to pay for something like a booth or to pay for their entrance into the industry? I think that would be a good topic to chat about.  02:54 - Danielle (Host) Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, you hit the nail on the head for me. Obviously, my apartment flooding was an unexpected expense, so therefore, the emergency fund really came to be used for its intended purpose. And I you know that's a really good question, because not you don't always have the money to go after the necessities of your dreams. You know, a booth like this is quite a big investment, or even things like your demos or your equipment microphones, coaching, all of those things.  03:28 It costs quite a bit of money. I, because of my personal experience with debt and getting myself out of debt, I am pretty debt averse, so I choose to have my emergency fund pay for the things that are knowable expenses when it comes to building a life and building a career. That's what I try to do. But I can see a reason why there are ways to use debt to your advantage if you know what you're doing. But for me personally, I try to not use debt, especially if I know that something big is coming. Obviously I didn't know that I needed to get a studio bricks, you know when my apartment flooded and also moving and those kind of costs that were incurred and the stress of it all. I was living in a hotel for three weeks because I did not have a place to live. So obviously those things you know. If you don't know and you can't incur those costs because you can't predict it then debt is a tool that can be used.  04:31 I'm just debt averse, and so I try to use other tools before utilizing the lever of debt. But what do you think, Anne?  04:39 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I mean, I think really, it a lot of it has to with and we had talked about this before if you have any type of money blocks, if you grew up with a certain set of beliefs about money. Yeah, I think that I also have been in a position where I've had debt, I've had to pay off, and I don't like to be in a debt situation. Sure, and, if possible, I really encourage everybody to just create that savings account and we've talked about this before the high yield savings account, which I think is really great. But you know, I mean, banks have business loans for a purpose, right, because we are a business. Now, I think, because we are a business that sells our voice, right, we tend to think it's much lower upfront cost, right.  05:26 Then, some businesses, when you have to invest and buy God forbid, you have to rent like a storefront and then you have to buy inventory. So, I think, with the advent of technology and online businesses, people have maybe, maybe it's come to be like a false sense of, hey, it doesn't cost a lot of money to invest in. Let me just open an online business, which is where voiceover tends to fall. However, there's, there's costs that you know you incur in this business and we've talked about that. I mean, there's absolutely your equipment, your studio and, of course, your voice is a cost, because you've got to be able to get jobs with your voice, and so in order to create the best product out there, you've got to train that voice, You've got to have products that showcase that voice, like coaching and demos, and so website and things like you know yeah, and so I am initially adverse.  06:25 However, I think there are, as you mentioned before, calculated strategic ways that you can invest in your business and make other people's money work for you. And you know, one thing comes to mind where my husband took out a loan because there was an offer of a 0% interest, which you know I mean gosh back when we did have some debt. I mean we were great at juggling those 0% interest cards, right, because we didn't have to pay our money in interest. And so he saw an offer and because he wanted to have some extra cushion in the overdraft account, he said let me take out a loan and so let me let me open this credit card, right, so for a certain amount of debt. And and there it sat, and all of a sudden I noticed that my credit score kind of dinged down like a point. I went, hey, what's this? What's this new credit card where there's a certain amount of debt in there and not that had been used, but there was a certain. It was just a new credit card. And he said, oh yeah, I took that out just for overdraft protection, which I think is absolutely fine.  07:33 However, I didn't like my credit score being dinged. But either way, I said well, look, because I had such a good experience with a high yield savings account, I said why don't you just take that chunk of money and throw it into a high-yield savings account? Because, first of all, you're not going to get charged any interest for about a year. So if you calculate the going rate on a high-yield savings account, which right now is about 3.75, I think mine was up at 4.35 at one percent at one point, but I mean it's still really good. And if you have even a few thousand dollars right that you can invest into or put that into the high yield savings account, you leave it in there for a few months and you don't use it. That generates money for you. And that's the thing.  08:16 I kept seeing this credit card and he wasn't using it. He was just using it for cushion, to just sit there. And I'm like well, have it sit there in a high yield savings account so that in a year, once it starts, you know, charging interest, we can have made a few thousand dollars and then way we can pay off the small amount of, you know, credit card debt that we have right now. And to me that would be a strategic way and, believe it or not, like he and I I mean we. I mean, one of the reasons why we're still married after all these years is that we very rarely have financial fights.  08:45 I truly believe that to be the case, but we always we had our own accounts. We, you know, basically have just remained that way throughout our marriage because, you know, we got married a little bit later in life, so I always had my own account, I had his account, and we just created a new account where we pool the money in for, like vacations, and so, you know, we basically live our lives trying to be debt free, and so this is just one of those things because he's really good at finagling those zero percent credit card rates, I'm like, well, at least put it in a high savings yield account. I think that that's a great way to strategically use maybe the bank's way of making money right to generate money that we can pay off our own debt, and I think that might be a strategic way.  09:29 - Danielle (Host) I like that.  09:30 - Anne (Host) Because that might be able to fund your next booth or fund your next microphone or fund your next demo Right.  09:37 - Danielle (Host) Right, right. What I appreciate about that is you were using cold hard facts, right. You were using logic, you were using numbers and you were able to calculate what makes the most sense. Let's just say I need to take out a loan for $10,000,. Let's just say and I've got a 12% one-year interest-free amount of time Okay, I know that it's $10,000. I know that I've got a year to pay it back. Can I reasonably pay back the full $10,000 in the 12 months?   10:33 that's $3,000 to $4,000. You can invest in a. With data. I say go right ahead. But on the flip side of that, if you're looking at this from a place of like scarcity fear, you're not really sure if you can pay it back. Then you're likely putting yourself in a long-term revolving door where you'll need to open up another line of credit to then pay off that line of credit and then you're not building money. You're actually a victim of the bank, instead of using the banks in the way that they're using us, which is to use us to make money, you know, and interest in everything else. So you know.  11:10 For that reason, yes, but that means you have to be super dialed into the logic and the data and the numbers and the facts, and I feel like I fear that some people don't do that, and then they enter into these with, like the hope that they will be able to pay it off, and hope is not currency.  11:28 So that to me is oh that's the words of wisdom right there Hope is not currency.  11:33 - Anne (Host) I love that, Danielle 11:34 - Danielle (Host) Hope is not currency and I feel like if we're, if we're trying to hope our way by using debt as a tool, that is a recipe for disaster. But if you know that you can keep yourself financially in a good place and even actually in a better place where you can make money on other people's money, go right ahead.  11:56 - Anne (Host) You know that's so funny. I'm so glad that you brought this home and gave that perspective, because I think it really makes a lot of sense. And I'll tell you what. It was something that I was. I never really thought about using the banks to make more money because I just was never into financial money like investigation, like that, before, until I started my own business, in which case now it became very important that I had money and that I was able to keep my money or pay you know, pay for my business, right, pay the expenses of my business, especially having you know people that work for me, and paying you know my agency and all that sort of thing, so actually having like money in and money out.  12:41 I then all of a sudden really had to take a hard, cold look at my money, which I think everybody that does this for a living needs to do, because, again, we are businesses and we Anne forget that. As easy as it sounds to have to do this right, to just get on our studios and audition and get jobs and make money and or invest some money, it's really a business and you've got to take a cold, hard look at numbers in order to make it worth your while and to make it sustainable and to grow, and for me it's something that it was like an epiphany almost. I'm like, hey, why don't we do this? Because I had a good money experience here investing this and then I thought to myself gosh banks do that to us all the time. They're making money off our interest. That's exactly how it works. I'm like why can't I do the?  13:32 - Danielle (Host) same thing. Yeah, and it's interesting because the thing is banks whenever we're like doing a loan, getting a loan with them or anything else, they are investigating into us because they have a business model that they know works, so they're utilizing their data to make sure that giving us a loan makes sense for them. We have to do the exact same thing when we're looking at utilizing debt, because a bank would never just say, oh yeah, I mean I hope it'll get paid back, I hope you'll pay us. Mean, I hope it'll get paid back, I hope you'll pay us back.  14:03 - Anne (Host) I hope you'll pay it back.  14:04 - Danielle (Host) They aren't going to do that. That's why, after a certain amount of time, the interest is so high it's so much higher than you would make on your high-yield savings account because they need to ensure that they are getting their money back, plus some. We can do the exact same thing, but it goes back to making sure that you are tracking your numbers. You know your data.  14:28 - Anne (Host) You can look at historical data and you know the risk and you know the risk. I think that's an important component of if you're going to play. If you're going to play like that, you have to know the risk. Now, for us, the risk in a high yield savings account is so much less than, let's say, the stock market. I have to keep my eye on all the time and make sure that that interest rate I mean, at one point it started above 4% and now it's down at 3.7 something percent. But keeping your eye on that and then keeping your eye on the track record, how long has it been at this?  14:51 And every month I'm checking my high yield savings account so that I can say, okay, this month I made X amount of dollars, which is really great, because I just continue. It just makes me want to put more money into my high yield savings account and there is a cap on it. So you do have to know those things as well. Right, you can only put so much money into that high yield savings account. Well, guess what? I'm opening up a second one so you know when you've gotten to that point where you're making that investment. And that's where, danielle, I feel that I'm very, very fortunate, grateful and worked very hard to feel like there's my financial cushion Should something like a disaster happen.  15:29 I mean, and I'm you know fires here in Southern California are a thing you know if something were to happen, I would have that money and also that's money that's kind of earmarked for retirement as well. But I also have a different retirement account for that, totally.  15:44 - Danielle (Host) You've got all these different buckets for as your emergency fund, but then you're using what I like about this. What you just said is that for me, anyway, using my emergency fund and then also using the money of the interest that's being made and my emergency fund it's in the high yield savings account I'm choosing to be my own bank, so I'm using the money that I'm making as the interest. Also, I'm dipping into that emergency fund because that's what it's for, and all I need to do is either just pay my loan back my loan to myself, pay that back to bring my emergency fund back, or let the high yield savings account let the interest pay that back for me over time. Yeah, so there are ways to sort of like make it work. But you know, if you don't know what the numbers and the data and everything looks like and you're not making these informed choices and decisions by using debt, it really can, you know, become a problem. But we can also become our own banks.  16:43 - Anne (Host) Money is and also when it comes time to. You know, most recently, I just invested in a new agency to do some work for for my brands, and it was a considerable investment and it was a risk. Again, it was one of those things when we talk about taking risks. It was a calculated risk and a strategic risk because I looked very closely at the amount that I was going to have to invest and for how long. So I always want to say that I need an escape route.  17:33 Right, if you invest in something and you don't want to have recurring payments, that kind of thing. Right, you don't have recurring debt. Right, just like debt, you have to pay every month and you have to pay a particular interest charge. You don't want to have recurring debt and I try to not have any of that happening at all. But if there is recurring debt that would be like oh, I'm paying off a bill or I'm paying off like a service and it goes for so many months and it's this amount of money. Well, make sure that you've accounted for that within your business and you have the money in case your business is not making the money. Right, and that is one thing that allows me to continually invest in my business take risks and then move forward.  18:14 - Danielle (Host) You have to. You have to constantly be looking at that. This is not a job, a career in any business, business, really, where you're just doing the passion, the thing that you really enjoy doing. There's this entire other operations and data management and education aspect to it that you constantly have to be investing in, and the investment isn't always financial, it is in time, it is in learning, it's in investing in yourself, it's investing in the person and the entrepreneur that you want to be in the future. And yes, money powers that, but it's not always a financial investment. So, really, just make sure that you are able to take the time to do that, to take the time to invest in yourself, and you know the ramifications of it. But debt is I'll go back to this debt is just a tool that you can use. So use your tools wisely. Maybe you need to use other people's money, maybe you use your own currency, but there are ways to grow by utilizing debt. You know, I still try to be. I try to be the bank first and then, sure.  19:24 - Anne (Host) Well, I don't like owing money. I mean I'm that person like at the end of the month, man, pay it off, just pay it off, just get. Although you know there there is, you know when you talk about it, when you take out loans like a car loan or a home loan, I mean that does establish better credit. And so you know, not having like not having credit at all can hurt you Exactly. And so not having some debt or a loan can can hurt your credit. And so it's that game of playing like paying it all off is great, but sometimes it damages your credit If you don't have enough credit open because the banks think, well, I mean it's good that they've paid. What is that? What is the mentality behind that? It's good that they pay off everything, but why is it that you need to have a credit card in order to have better credit?  20:09 - Danielle (Host) That goes kind of back to like for me. That goes back to my history and psychology with money and debt. I was just flat out told debt is wrong, Credit is wrong, it's bad, don't use it. And so when it was time for me in my mid-20s to get a credit card or at least try to make bigger purchases, I had no credit history there was no record.  20:34 So you can't show that you are credit worthy. Until you have a history, until you have credit. And it is this cycle that you really need to understand. And since I was completely ignorant of that because I was just told it's bad, don't play that game. I was at a disadvantage. So you do need to be in it to utilize it, sure, sure, but if you don't, then you're not going to be able to show that you're credit worthy.  21:05 So so, it's a, it's a it's. It's an interesting thing and I think really it should start with education.  21:10 I wish I was educated on it a little bit earlier in life so that I could have a longer amount of time to show hey, I am credit worthy, I am paying my bills on time, I am paying my debts off, and and here's my history of being able to do it it's it's interesting are ways. I think there are ways to learn about it and not get burned, so that you can have a positive experience with money and debt instead of just not knowing or having worse, having fear about it.  21:40 - Anne (Host) I think you make a valid point there and I think I personally, having come from an education background, really believe that financial education should happen in like grade school. Oh yeah, I mean in grade school.  21:53 And there should be, because there's so much, I think, fear For me. I always said it was denial Right, because when I got my first credit card I was like, woohoo, you know I can go and you know, buy this, I can buy anything I want. And then all of a sudden it's like, well, wait a minute, I've got this thing called interest, and why do I have to pay this extra money? And it was interesting because I wasn't really educated in high school about credit cards or finances or really much of any of that, and so it can get out of hand. I mean, I literally just had such a shopping spree with that credit card thinking, oh my gosh, well, I've got a job, I can, you know, I can pay this. But then it can get out of control, it can spiral quickly. You know, I think if I were educated a little bit, I think really the best education that I have gotten recently is having my own business, because for a long time and I think a lot of people might feel the same here it was denial right. I would get that credit card statement at the you know every month and I'd say, okay, all right, it went up a little bit, I can pay that by. You know, all I can do is pay a little bit more every month, and it just was one of those things where I kind of stopped looking. I was like, yeah, here, here's my card.  23:02 And I think denial is a form of fear.  23:04 Oh yes, it is a fear of really looking at the real numbers and seeing what's there.  23:10 And I think, for voice actors just getting into this industry, there are investments We've talked about this in our past episodes investments that you have to make, but they're minimal compared to, let's say, a storefront that requires inventory, but they're still investments, and so, therefore, you do have to be willing to take a risk and make an investment in your product, and that means good coaching and experience having a business.  23:36 That's also something that I think is priceless. Can you really pay for having a business experience like having a voiceover business? I think if I had really succumbed to my fears in the first couple of years, where I wasn't making a whole lot of money, I would have given it up. I would have given up my career and said I'm not making any money and so, therefore, maybe this isn't a viable business for me. So there's that, I think, that balance between taking the risk and then if I had had a financial cushion back at that time when I was taking the risk and then if I had had a financial cushion back at that time when I was taking the risk, I think I could have grown my business much faster.  24:12 - Danielle (Host) Your financial cushion we go.  24:15 You know this goes back to earlier episodes where sometimes your day job or you know other things that you are doing to make money outside of voiceover or outside of this business is your financial cushion, and that's a wonderful thing to have.  24:28 So don't look at it as a detriment. Look at it as something that you are using as another, one of those tools to be able to further your investment in yourself, in your business, in your coaching, in all the things that you would need to support yourself in this business, to support yourself in this business. There are so many different ways to fund this dream, this business, this career. It doesn't have to just be one tool, but you really do have to stay on top of understanding how to use a tool and what it's going to cost you in terms of paying it back or what you're going to gain from it in terms of you know, using the interest If you are using a line of credit, for example how you can really win. That's really what it is is. You can take risks, but it's a calculated risk so that you can make sure that you always are in the winning position.  25:19 - Anne (Host) You want to win. Win that game. Yeah, absolutely, because it's scary to not be in a winning position. For sure, that is for sure. Wow, absolutely, because it's scary to not be in a winning position. For sure, that is for sure. Wow. What a great conversation, danielle. I really appreciate it. Gosh, I love talking to you about money.  25:32 - Danielle (Host) I love talking about money, so let's keep doing it.  25:35 - Anne (Host) Oh gosh. Well, thank you so much. And, bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network and talk money like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  25:53 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

  BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides share an inspiring and candid conversation about the challenges and triumphs of leveling up your business. Anne opens up about her personal journey of growth, from small changes in her Pilates class to taking a significant leap in her company, battling the fear and discomfort that often accompany evolution. This episode offers profound insights into navigating change, the vital role of a supportive team, and the power of embracing risk for long-term success. Listeners will gain actionable wisdom on recognizing their own self-imposed limitations, the importance of strategic planning, and understanding that growth, while sometimes terrifying, is essential for avoiding stagnancy.   00:24 - Announcer: It's time to take your business to the next level—the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now, let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 00:44 - Anne (Host): Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with Lau Lapides in our Boss Superpower Series. Hey Lau, hey Anne. 00:54 - Lau (Guest): I'm so excited to be back. It's been a while, you know. It seems like it's been forever years. It hasn't been, it's been years, but it feels like that. 01:04 - Anne (Host): I'm going to say a lot has happened, and so I brought props to show you. So I have... actually, I love props. I care my props. I have actually leveled up, okay? So in many ways. So I have my three-pound weight and I have my five-pound weight. So in my Pilates class, I finally leveled up because when they say grab your light weights, I went from three pounds to five pounds. 01:26 - Lau (Guest): You're now a heavyweight. 01:28 - Anne (Host): Well... I don't know if it's heavyweight, but now, right, it's a change. I've leveled up, and while it may not seem like a lot over the long haul, guess what? It's going to mean a whole lot. And I thought it was such a great comparison for our businesses and how we can make simple little changes. And those simple little changes over time are going to make an amazing difference. And I even got like excited, and I wrote, "No sacrifice, no success." And then here's my little boot necklace to like kick myself in the butt to remind myself. 02:00 - Lau (Guest): We all need that, Annie, we all need that. 02:02 - Anne (Host): I love that, to do that, yeah. So I've taken some chances with my business, and I have done some things. I've made some changes, some not so small, but they've been coming for a while. In my head, they were small, and over time they evolved into a kind of, maybe, a bigger idea for a bigger vision for my company. And I thought it would be great to just talk about the process because it's not easy to level up. 02:27 - Lau (Guest): Oh, it's no, it's not the most challenging thing you can do. And it's funny how you have the thought, the imagination, the dream, which has nothing to do with the actual reality of doing it, right? So you're moving through that reality. 02:40 - Anne (Host): I consider the brain, right? My brain steps, my little steps over time, because I've been thinking about how am I evolving, how am I going to level up, how am I going to make these changes? And so in my head, I was making small changes, right? Until finally, I started implementing those small changes, and then kind of as a, I guess maybe a side effect or after effect of those small changes, then I needed to make bigger changes. And so now I have to say that through the process, it's been definitely a learning process, not only for... I like to say I have a clear direction of where I want to go, I know that, but also things have happened that have been, I guess, scary. They've been monumental, like growing challenges for me, but also moments where I've been... Oh, I get it now! 03:31 - Lau (Guest): Yes, let's hear, what are some of those aha discovery moments for you that caught you? 03:31 - Anne (Host): So the aha discovery, right? The aha discovery of evolving your business and always growing, and I'm always talking about that, right? I'm always talking about evolving, and I'm like, "Oh, I got an idea for this, I got an idea for that." I'm a little bit of a serial entrepreneur, but when it comes right down to it, I think that a big aha moment for me was in the process of doing this, is that I've learned a lot about myself, and I've learned where I myself get in my own way, right? I myself get in my own way, right? And I like to think that I don't, and that I'm all confident, and I'm... Yes, we can forge forward and be successful. But yet there's been some times where I'm like, "Well, am I doing the right thing?" And I second-guess myself, and then when I do that, I learn more about myself. Yes, and so it's really been a learning experience about myself and how there are ways in which I hold myself back, and how when it comes to growing your business, the team that you have in place can do a lot to support you. 04:33 - Lau (Guest): Now, before you go on, Annie, I want to know on a scale of one to 10, 10 being the most terrorizing, before you made the move, because a lot of our clients and talent ask us about this, like, "How do I make these really serious and scary moves?" How scared, terrorized, were you at the thought of that kind of change, which is semi-radical, especially when you're working with people for quite a while? How scared were you? 04:59 - Anne (Host): Terrified, terrified. I mean, terrified. It was a 10. It was a 10. Stress level eating, do you know what I mean? 05:05 - Lau (Guest): Well, thank you for being honest, I would agree. 05:07 - Anne (Host): I think it's true. Headache, neck ache. It never gets easier. No, it never gets easier. 05:12 - Lau (Guest): It's always a risk, a huge risk. 05:15 - Anne (Host): And we've talked about this. It's not like uncommon that we've talked about like taking risks and stuff like that. And even before, I was like, "Yeah, we take risks, we're bosses." And this time I took a big risk, and I think that I really challenged myself to take a big risk. And is it completely successful? I don't know yet, you know what I mean? It's evolving. 05:34 - Lau (Guest): And that's the nature of risk. If you knew, it wouldn't be a risk. 05:37 - Anne (Host): Exactly. I mean, I'm evolving with it, I'm growing with it, and I have faith that I'm determined that it will evolve into something successful for me, and so that I have. But the terror along the way has been surprising. 05:53 - Lau (Guest): Yes, yes, because it never gets easier. It never gets better. No, right? It just gets more, higher stakes, and it's funny. The stakes get higher. Yeah, and it's funny, what were the stakes for you this time around? Can you like break it down for the listeners? How did that work? 06:07 - Anne (Host): I'm going to keep going back to here, like right. So we all know my health journey, right? And my health journey took about a year and a half, right? To kind of come to fruition and get the news that, you know, I was not well, healthy, and I needed to do something about it. And then get to work, right? Focus, get to work. And so I was driven. I had a goal. I was driven. I didn't stop until I got to that goal. And then all of a sudden, I got to the goal and I'm like, "Wait, I have more goals." 06:34 - Anne (Host): And so my three-pound weight was always my weight that when the Pilates instructor said, "Go grab your light weights," I said, "Okay, three pounds," right? Three pounds is what? Before it was like one pound, I'm not quite sure if it might've been two pounds. Then I said, "All right, I'm going to graduate to three." But then just this past week I went to a five, and I said, for whatever it was, I had been thinking about it and thinking about it and thinking about it. Similar to my business. Right? I was thinking about the moves, I was stressing, I was nervous, I was like debating, I was researching, I did all the things in my head to evolve, and then finally, I took the leap. And so this past Wednesday, I took the leap, and I went to five pounds. Isn't that great? And it wasn't horrible, and it wasn't horrible. And now I know that there will be days when I'm not going to want to do the five pounds, but I'm going to push myself to do the five pounds. 07:24 - Lau (Guest): You're going to push, but there was something inside of you. 07:26 - Announcer: This is something I think the listeners have to know this. 07:29 - Lau (Guest): There was something inside of you, this little voice, that somehow knew that you could take it on. 07:34 - Anne (Host): And today was the day you could handle it, even though you felt nervous, scared, and with weights, you actually can get hurt, physically hurt, right? 07:44 - Lau (Guest): So of course you're not lifting 150 pounds, but you can still hurt yourself, right? Exactly. Well, let's transfer that now to your business. 07:52 - Anne (Host): Yeah, I mean, and it was funny because I thought about it, thought about it, thought about it, strategized, strategized, said, "Yes, I should. No, I shouldn't. Yes, I should." Today's the day. 08:00 - Lau (Guest): The back and forth, right, Annie? The back and forth. Yes, no. 08:02 - Anne (Host): And then I said, "Today's the day." Today is the day, right? And so literally, that's kind of what happened when I made the decision after I had been thinking about it, researching, going back and forth, "Okay, I'm going to do it," and then I started it, and it was like building a muscle, right? So I'm still in the process of building the muscle of my business and getting through the growth, right? So I'm going to grow my muscle with my five-pound weight. 08:29 - Anne (Host): I'm going to grow my business, right, with my growth strategy, and it's terrifying, it's uncomfortable, right? It's uncomfortable, but there are little successes that I'm seeing along the way, and that makes me happy, and that gives me the confidence to move on and to continue on my journey. And I know in my heart, right, I will make it work for me in the way that it's best. I think the one thing, Lau, which is interesting, is I always have to figure out what's the fallback, right? What's the worst-case scenario, and can I accept the worst-case scenario? 09:02 - Lau (Guest): What is the worst-case scenario? 09:02 - Anne (Host): The worst-case scenario was I'm committed to my growth strategy for a certain amount of time and a large amount of money, to be quite honest with you. 09:09 - Lau (Guest): Well, that's what I was going to say, that you lose a bunch of money that you don't feel you got any return on or any knowledge on. That would be the worst, wouldn't it? Honestly, I can't imagine that happening with you because you're going to squeeze the juice out of everything, but that would be the worst. 09:25 - Anne (Host): The confidence that I have, Lau, and I think that what we've spoken about as well in podcasts before, and I get excited about this, is that I said, "Okay, I have a certain amount of money, I can make a commitment, and I am okay if I lose this money." It's kind of like... it's like gambling. I was just going to say, I don't want to bring up gambling, but I will, because when I go to Vegas, I say, "Okay, I have a certain amount of money. If I decide that I want to gamble..." I don't really gamble a whole lot, like my gambling money is maybe 20 bucks, just to have fun. 09:51 - Lau (Guest): I don't either. 09:51 - Anne (Host): Because I'd rather spend my money on something that I know I'm getting. Like I'm getting a nice facial or a massage. 09:55 - Lau (Guest): I do too, I know. Or dinner. But doesn't that make it harder for you to make those moves because you're not a gambler? 10:05 - Anne (Host): Well, I'm not a gambler, let's say, in Vegas, but I am a gambler with my business in a lot of ways, because I know that if I don't, I will be worse off. If I do not grow, and I've said this before, stagnancy is the death of me. If I do not grow, that is the worst. And I think what was happening is I was at a place where I didn't feel like I was growing anymore, and I wanted to continue the growth. And I'm like, "How can I grow? How can I get more clients? How can I reach these clients?" And when I really researched the answers, it wasn't within my own industry, because I had my own circle already built, which was amazing, and I love my circle. I'm not giving up my circle, but I needed to get beyond the circle to bring in new people, to bring in, right, new clients, and that was, I mean, really, how was I going to reach those clients? 10:54 - Lau (Guest): So what does that translate to for you in terms of this last move that you just made? I know you can't get into too many details before your launch of it, but what did that translate to you in terms of the team you had and were working with, the new team you wanted to be working with, and the new concept that you had moving forward? What were the action steps that you really had to start taking on in order to realize that? 11:22 - Anne (Host): Well, action steps was, first of all, education and research, right, and understanding. And I was actually put in a situation where I needed to get a new team of professionals that could, first of all, handle my website, because the person that I had worked with for many, many years was not able to continue to do that. And so I was looking for more members of the team. And so in doing so, it's hard out there looking for people. I mean, we've discussed this before, like, do they know the industry? Do they not know the industry? What are their skill levels? And, to be honest with you, if people in the voiceover industry knew website development, there are a few people that do, but there's not a lot, right? 12:01 - Anne (Host): So I had to go outside of the industry to look for people that could handle the back end of my websites, because I got a lot going on. I mean, we know that the podcast here, there's a lot of products, there's lots of back-end workings in the website that set up appointments with me, that handle income and inflows and outflows and that sort of thing. So I needed to have someone that was capable in that to take over. And so in doing that was education, research, interviewing, and then also really having a hard look at the budget, because you know, I mean, I have a certain budget. And I think the one thing that sealed it for me—the go, right, the go, and go after thinking and strategizing and education—was having a certain amount of money set aside that I could risk, right, to move forward and know that if it didn't work out, I wasn't confined to a lifetime of it, right, financially or emotionally. I could get out of it if I needed to, right? And what would be the worst thing that could happen? 13:00 - Anne (Host): Well, I would lose that money. So I was just like, if I was going, I have this amount of money that I'm willing to lose, and now I'm ready to gamble. And that's really what it took. And that, just knowing that, having that security and knowing that I had a certain amount of money I was willing to invest and lose completely, completely, if things didn't go the way that I thought they were and I needed to get out, I was okay with that. And so I think that gave me the green light to go ahead and do it. And now, once I'm doing it, right, there's all sorts of like things that are like... I was not anticipating all sorts of obstacles in the path that I did not anticipate. 13:38 - Lau (Guest): Tell us about a few of those obstacles that you ran into. 13:40 - Anne (Host): Well, you know, if you're working with new people, they don't know you, right? They may or may not know your industry. These people did not know my industry, and so they need to be educated so that they can do the best job that they can. The amount of time that I spent educating it's amazing because, you know, I've been in this industry for, I don't know, 17, 18 years, and people that have been working with me have been working with me a long time, so that's a lot of years. Once you work with someone or, you know, you get to know them for that long of time, it's great, because you know the process, you know the industry, you know the person you're working with, you know what they're expecting. When you have new people, it's a whole new relationship, right? And it's like a new client, right, a new voiceover client, where I always loved voiceover because you got in and you got out quick. 14:25 - Anne (Host): A lot of times, yeah, you had a client that kept coming back. You developed a relationship, and typically it was an easy relationship because they've liked what you've done, and they were happy with it, and there was never really, for the most part, you're not having difficult moments within that relationship. This one, I am an owner of my business, right? I need to have it run in a particular way, so it's not like I'm the boss this time, right? Before, my clients, they're the boss, right? I have a skill that I'm providing, and I'm providing audio to them. They like it, they accept it, they pay me. It's great. They come back. Right, they give me new stuff. They like it, they accept it, they pay me. It's great. This, I'm the boss, right? I have to like it, I have to accept it, and I have to say, "This is great. This is moving my business forward." So I have to do a lot of assessment along the way, especially with new people who may not be familiar. 15:12 - Lau (Guest): Now I have a question about that, okay, because we get a lot of questions about this. Folks come in and feel like, "I'm working on a voiceover career or an actor career. If I need to hire people or I need to get a vendor to serve me in a particular service, they come in, they have their expertise. I pay them, they do it." The problem is they're missing the link of how much education and management you have to do when you hire a person, a consultant, a team. It's any person. It is not like, "Here, do my website, and I'm done, and I'll see you in a couple of weeks when it's done," and that's time consuming. Can you take us through, right, can you take us through a little bit of the process of how you are managing this new, brand new team of people who may or may not have the expertise in this industry? How are you managing those people? What does that look like in terms of time and in terms of effort? 16:05 - Anne (Host): Oh, it's a lot, it's a lot of time, it's a lot. It's more time than I anticipated, and I forgot. I mean, because I had gotten almost complacent because people knew me so well, right? I mean, and so now I have to educate new people, a new team, on how I want my business to move forward and who I am and certain things that I expect. And so the amount of time that was required, I did not anticipate. I thought it would be easy, but it's not. And it's interesting because it kind of brought me back to, you know, you think things are just automated and my web girl, I've worked with her for 15 years, she knows me, she knows exactly like what I love, she knows if I say I need something on my website, she could do it. I didn't have to like micromanage at all. Now, all of a sudden, right, there's a lot of time spent educating the new team on, "Here's the practices and the procedures. And this is the way that I like it, because I'm the boss, right?" That amount of time that I'm managing, and I don't like to micromanage. What I like to do is educate enough so that I can say, "Go be creative, do it." It's so funny because, no matter what they do for you, right, they have to know who you are and your brand in order to be able to help you grow your business further. 17:17 - Anne (Host): And I literally went to the boot. Again, I go back to the boot, but I went shopping yesterday. I had a gift card to spend it at this Western store, and I got a cowboy hat. I got a cowboy hat, it's really cool. And the guy branded it for me on the inside of it, and I said, "Well, I love branding." Right, I love branding. "Let's do my initials AG." You know, that's like my website, it's everything. So he has the branding AG. And then I said, "Oh, I like those stars. I'm a star, make me a star." And the way he branded me, he floured it. Like every time he put that branding iron on the hat and he picked it up, it was branded. It was like a big flourish. And I'm like, "I don't care what you do or how many stars you put on it, you're creative. He's like, 'Oh, I'm a creative person, you do your thing, I trust you. You can put as many stars on there as you want, but I'm a star.'" So he's like, "Okay." So I let him like creatively flourish with my brand. But I gave him the specs on, "Here's my AG brand, and I need it to look like this. But now you can flourish and enhance the brand." 18:15 - Anne (Host): It's kind of what I'm doing with my business, right? I'm allowing people to do what they're good at, and that's a big thing. Like to kind of give up the control to allow the people who are experts in what they do, like I'm not a graphic expert, right? I need a graphic expert to create beautiful graphics for my website or a beautiful graphic for my social media, and so that's what they do, right? So I'm like, "Here, here's my guidelines, here's the brand, here's what it looks like for the most part, but put your creative flourish on it," and I love that. That's how I want to be able to manage people. I want to be able to have people that I can say, "Here, here's your baseline, your guidelines for the business. This is how I need it to sound, this is how I want to be represented. Go ahead, put your creative flourish on it." 18:58 - Lau (Guest): Do you feel like, Annie, especially if it's a company that has never worked with someone like you or someone like this brand or even in the genre of the business, do you feel like you can trust them to go off and create? Because there are so many questions that come up about the products and services themselves, do you feel like you can sort of take that step away, or do you feel like in the first couple months you don't? 19:23 - Anne (Host): I do need to be on top of the matter for the first couple, because I, yes, and that's what I'm finding, is that I do have to say, "No, this isn't quite what I need. Let's make adjustments," and they need to be willing to make adjustments while they get to know. It's a mutual, we need to get to know each other. 19:38 - Lau (Guest): Okay, so I have a question about that. How do you determine—this is a common question of all of our talent and clients—how do you determine how to bank hours according to what you're paying your marketing team to bank hours in order to educate, collaborate, go back and forth? How do you negotiate that with your company, not really knowing how much time they're going to need to figure it out? 20:06 - Anne (Host): Well, honestly, like, no sacrifice, no success, right? I am sacrificing a lot of my hours to do all the checking and then making the corrections and saying, "No, this, not this, this." And so for me, it's a sacrifice, right? It's a sacrifice of my time. I have to make sure I allocate time to be able to do that to educate them. But the better I can educate them right in the beginning, the less time I'm going to have to spend later on. That's the way I feel, and the easier it'll be for them to get to know me. I don't think that there's any lack of content about me out there, so, like there's lots of help if people need to know who is Ann Ganguzza. 20:43 - Lau (Guest): But the question is that a lot of people are going to be wondering is what if they want to hire a marketing team? What if they want to have a marketing consultant, right, working on? How do they know how much that investment will be, not just time but money, how much that investment will be based on the kind of education and back and forth that they will need to do with that team? Even if they're in the industry, they're still going to need to do it. 21:07 - Anne (Host): Yeah, it's probably more than you anticipate. You think that you can just say, "Here, create a graphic," or "Make my website." But there's so much that, again, because we are personal brands out there, right, in this industry. We are personal brands, brands out there, right? In this industry, we are personal brands. There's so much of us that is invested in representation and what we look like, what we sound like, how we're being sold, right? There's so much of us that, if we are not able to educate a team on who we are, right, and how we need to be represented, right, you need to be able to allocate that time. So the way that it's working with my team is that services are rendered. I mean, I don't pay for every version of a graphic. They basically do it until it's right, and that's how that works. I pay a blanket fee. 21:53 - Lau (Guest): Do they give you an amount of hours that they're willing to budget in for the month? 21:55 - Anne (Host): Nope, nope, that's great. There's no, yeah, there's no, not in a contract, let's put it that way. And so that was something that actually it's a really great question, because that was something that I wanted to make sure of. I mean, when we went back, right, "Here's what I need. I need to have this, this, this and this. Are you able to provide that, right, and are you able to provide revisions, right, without additional charges?" There's no charges. I'm paying a retainer fee, and so there are no, at least in the contract. There are not, right. There are not. There is a statement of work. There are timeframes. So if I need this to be done on my website, I should expect it to take this long. 22:40 - Lau (Guest): Right. Now, I have a question about that, Annie. If they're doing socials, which they're engaging in SEO, but also an engagement for you, right? They're doing socials in terms of engagement, they're doing graphics. 22:52 - Anne (Host): They're doing some graphics. They're doing graphics. 22:55 - Lau (Guest): But do they actually go on and engage in your voice? 22:57 - Anne (Host): I'm engaging right now. Okay, the question is, though, for people who need help, they would. They would. 23:02 - Lau (Guest): Well, that's the question I have. 23:03 - Anne (Host): If I wanted them to, they would, but I want to engage with the people as long as I have the time. I want to be able. The initial like impression of me and then if there are comments or questions, I like to engage for now, until there are some questions that they can handle on my behalf. But I don't want to misrepresent or people to think that, "Oh, somebody besides Ann is answering." For the most part, I'm interacting with any engagement that happens. They just need to provide the initial wow for the engagement. 23:37 - Lau (Guest): I got you. I got you. 23:38 - Anne (Host): But they would. They said they would, and I actually... We never actually went into that, because that's not what I'm having them do right now. I'm more concerned with them getting the website SEO going, doing some SEO work. They're doing a lot of SEO work for me, which, again, I wanted to be able to expand my reach and to be found outside of the circle that I was in already. 23:57 - Anne (Host): So that requires a lot of keywords. It requires a lot of going back to content that I've produced, creating new graphics for it, creating new titles, creating new words, you know, new content, new descriptions. And so, for the most part, I am approving all of that, and if it needs to go back to the drawing board, I basically correct it and say, "No, let's do this, let's do that." Again, I'll say, "I would never have said this, right, or I would never say this. This is not the proper terminology for this industry." So that's the one thing is that they don't necessarily know the terminology in the industry, nor do they know like, graphically, like, what microphone should I represent? Like, no, do not put a dynamic microphone. 24:39 - Lau (Guest): So you're doing that kind of team, and it's good for our listeners to just know, like, why are you doing this when you could do it yourself? But the expertise of an ad team like this is not only graphics and graphic design, but it's also how to reach your target markets. 24:57 - Anne (Host): Yes, and a different perspective, Lau. That's the other thing that I want to say is, the biggest benefit of this is it's great to have people in the industry, and I still have people in the industry that are doing work for me, but also having a perspective that's outside of the industry, because, again, I need to get outside of the bubble that I'm in, right? And so how do I do that without a different perspective? Right, I want to attract corporate clients. Right, I want to attract corporate clients for my voiceover. How am I going to do that if they're not in my circles already? Right, how am I going to reach outside? 25:28 - Anne (Host): And so a lot of it was to have somebody that does that for all industries to be able to do that for me, and then also, basically, to give me the perspective, like, so that I don't get in my own way, because I've literally had to say, like, "Do you think you should put my face on that graphic right now?" 25:47 - Anne (Host): "Because doesn't that seem too assuming, you know?" And I get all like, here I am getting in my own way, and they're like, "No, no, no, no, because at this stage of the sales funnel, right, they don't know you yet, and so you need to represent your face in that confident way, blah, blah, blah, blah. Later on down in the sales funnel, when they know you, then you don't have to repeat that." So they're experts in that, and basically there's a lot that I'm learning from them, and they're learning a lot about the industry from me. And we're collaborating, and that's the one thing that I do like is that it's in a very collaborative sort of way, and it wasn't without many interviews, by the way, and what's cool about that is they become... 26:31 - Lau (Guest): Yes, you're educating them about the industry and how they need, and people are going to be seeing and thinking about you that are not esoteric, they're not in the industry, they're people that are in the universe. Corporate people, people who might hire me for a voiceover. Yeah, I just want to say, though, that that is a perspective that we all lose along the way. 26:53 - Anne (Host): We do. 26:54 - Lau (Guest): Because we get so involved in the audience that we're currently with, we think everyone is like that. Everyone sees it that way, when really it can be quite opposite to that, that they see you as something totally different than what you think they're seeing you as. 27:07 - Anne (Host): Yeah, and that was the biggest education for me and the biggest takeaway is that it's a growth experience. 27:15 - Anne (Host): Growth is not always fun. Growth is not always fun, growth is not always easy, but growth is to me a sign of moving ahead and moving forward. And so, as long as I can accept that, and I can accept the beatings along the way and the discomfort, and the discomfort, you know, you've got your triumphs and celebrations and exciting moments, but you also have, yeah, you got to work that out. 27:37 - Anne (Host): Work out my stress, work out my stress. I love it. But it's all good, guys, and bosses. I guess this whole discussion today was like really small steps can really mean large growth for you in the long term. And for me, it was a bunch of tiny steps in my head, and then it was just kind of a leap of faith, right, once I said, "What's the worst that could happen?" 27:57 - Anne (Host): Right, I have accepted the worst thing that could happen. And I remember that's so funny, Lau, because in the beginning of time, I feel like in the beginning of time when I graduated college, right, a thousand years ago, a thousand years ago, when I graduated college and I was trying to determine whether I should accept a job in New Jersey, right? Should I move my young butt to New Jersey in a place that I didn't know anybody, all by myself, right, and work for this company? And I said, "You know what? It's scary, but I'll give it a year, and if it doesn't work out in a year, guess what? I can move home." The worst thing is, I don't like it and I move home. 28:31 - Anne (Host): So I did the same thing with my business, and I'll tell you what, Lau, it really puts things in perspective. I said, "Okay, I have a certain amount of money that I can lose, that I'm going to invest, I can lose it, and I'm okay with that, as long as I grow along the way. And if I grow along the way, I have such an education." To me, I'm like, "This is great, now I can move forward." 28:50 - Lau (Guest): I'm with you, totally, I'm with you. Now, one more question: To the people who are not leveling up quite in that way. Maybe they're in an early stage, earlier stage. They say, "I need this, I love this, and I want this, but I don't know if I have the extra money, I don't know if I have the extra capital for this." What do you say to those people that are a little bit tighter on budget, a little bit more worried about paying the rent, a little bit earlier in the game, or maybe they're not, maybe they've been in it for 10, 15 years, but they're still worried about the tight purse strings? What do you say about that? 29:21 - Anne (Host): Well, okay. So tight purse strings are one thing, right? I mean, you either do what you have to do to get the money. You put it in savings, you save for as long, earn it. 29:29 - Lau (Guest): Yeah, you work at Dunkin' Donuts. You know what I mean? Beg, borrow, steal it, as we used to say. Make me my iced coffee at Dunkin' Donuts. 29:35 - Anne (Host): You do whatever you do and you put it away, and then you say, "I've got this amount of money to invest." 29:40 - Lau (Guest): That's if you actually need the cash, right? Yeah. 29:42 - Anne (Host): And if it's not just cash and you just don't want to work, do you know what I mean? Like educate yourself. Like spend the money, invest the money in yourself. If you don't have money, it's time. 29:55 - Lau (Guest): Right. Beg, borrow, steal, right? Don't. I think you're also saying one really important work ethic thing that's a bottom line too, is you got to work harder? 30:00 - Anne (Host): Not only smarter. 30:02 - Lau (Guest): You got to work harder. I don't know why people threw that out the window. "Work smarter, not harder." Well, you kind of have to do both. 30:09 - Anne (Host): You have to do both. You have to work hard and work smart, right? Yeah, you do, and that's actually, I love that you said that. You really do. I mean, people know that I work. I mean, I'm just, I'm working extra hours right now. 30:19 - Lau (Guest): I'm not calling you a slob, but you're a grinder. You know what I mean? You are a grinder. 30:24 - Anne (Host): I always have been, but more so than I really want to. But my ultimate goal is so that I'm not going to have to work so hard in the future. Right? And again, if I were stagnant, right, and I just got kind of complacent, then that's almost worse. 30:37 - Lau (Guest): Yeah, but I know you. I know you. I don't think you're ever going to retire. You're not the type. You'll be on the phone at 98 going, "Wait a second, are you saying this?" I mean, you do have too much love and passion for everything that you're doing, and you know that's what really drives us at the end of the day. It's fun, there's got to be a fun factor. 30:55 - Anne (Host): Well, I think it's like a game. It's a game I play, you know, in a way. 30:59 - Lau (Guest): I mean, there's strategy, you want to win. Exactly, it's a very creative game for me. 31:05 - Anne (Host): So I think that, bosses, we all have to play that creative game. We all have to not just want to win at our performance and be in the booth and do a great job, but also win at our businesses and play the game. I mean, play the game. It's not a bad game to play, it's a fun game if you allow it to be, right, even though I'm telling you, I have discomfort, I'm stressed, but I enjoy the journey. 31:27 - Lau (Guest): I enjoy the journey. And remember what makes it successful, Annie, is that you're the designer of the game. Yes, you get to not only play the game, you get to design it. So don't lose out on the design element. That's the beautiful thing about it, right? 31:37 - Anne (Host): We're designing our own game. 31:39 - Lau (Guest): Our businesses are similar in the industry, but they couldn't be more different in the way they're designed and executed, and that's the beauty of what we do as creatives. Is that, and any industry that you run your own business, no two restaurants are really the same. 31:53 - Announcer: There's different designers. 31:55 - Lau (Guest): So have fun with that. 32:02 - Anne (Host): So guys, do the work, do the work, Make the small changes. 32:04 - Anne (Host): Yeah, Lau it's been amazing. Thank you so much for all your love and encouragement too. You are a big part of my team and I love having encouragement that does help, because you don't feel so all alone and I'm not also like, oh my God, am I doing the right thing? So yeah, guys, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses, like Lau and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom Bosses. Have an amazing week and let's go build those muscles. All right, bye, bye. 32:33 - Announcer: Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via1 IPDTL.  

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere, your "real bosses" and co-hosts, connect to dive deep into the critical world of online security and scam prevention for voiceover professionals. They unpack Tom's recent harrowing experience with an AI voice cloning scam, offering a candid look into the crucial insights needed to navigate digital threats and build a truly secure business in today's landscape. Listeners will discover the essential role of vigilance and proactive measures in protecting their assets, gain an understanding of emerging scam tactics, and appreciate the power of community in safeguarding their careers. Anne and Tom also discuss practical pathways for secure transactions and the evolving nature of digital defense.   00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne from VO BOSS here.  00:04 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VO BOSS. Vip membership, now with even more benefits.  00:10 - Anne (Host) So not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP plus tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself.  00:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best Voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you.  00:32 - Anne (Host) Join us guys at VO BOSS and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit voboss.com slash VIP-membership to sign up today.  00:45 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast.  01:04 - Anne (Host) I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my real boss, Tom Deere. I had to think about that, Tom. We've been together so long. I was like what is our subtitle here? We are real bosses.  01:20 - Tom (Host) Yeah, we're real bosses. Thanks for having me back, Anne.  01:23 - Anne (Host) How are you doing, Tom, my real boss? Co-host.  01:26 - Tom (Host) All things considered, I'm doing okay, I had a weird experience recently which it seems like a lot of voice actors are experiencing. I got an email from someone expressing interest in wanting to cast me for a voiceover project. Oh yes, I looked at it and it was this long-form project, something like 9,000 and change words. And I looked at it and I'm like and you know I was reading the ins and outs of it and I'm like, huh, like my spider sense was tingling a little bit, but I'm looking at, I'm like this one is worth replying to and getting some information about.  02:00 So there was a little bit of back and forth about it.  02:03 - Anne (Host) So you did reply, and then there was.  02:05 - Tom (Host) There was more conversation.  02:06 - Anne (Host) Yeah, there was more conversation, which is what I always do when I'm trying to find out more information about a job to make sure it's legit.  02:12 - Tom (Host) Right Now, around the same time, maybe a couple of days after that, someone posted on a Facebook group hey, I got this email. It was saying this and this Did anyone else get it? Does it seem legit? And it looked like it was the same email that I had gotten, so I was following that it turns out.  02:28 It was posted by our friend, bridget Real, who is the co-founder of VA for VO, the virtual assistant site that helps voice actors, and we talked about it a little bit and we're both like, yeah, we're going to keep digging a little bit and see what's going on. And then her business partner, lynn, also got the email and I was getting ready to accept it just to see what would happen. And that morning I got a message from her saying hey, did you accept this project? Yet I'm like no, why? And she said because both of us accepted the project. We both got cast for the same exact project. We both got the same exact script. They sent me the script.  03:00 So then I did this. I went to Gemini, google Gemini, which is my AI bot of choice, and I did the prompts. I said you are an expert at detecting scams. Please analyze this script and let me know if you think that this script could be used to harvest a voice actor's voice to clone it. A voice actor's voice to clone it. And it did its analysis and I've got like the 2.5 advanced. So it takes a little time. And it wrote back oh, yes, it does. And here are all the reasons why this, this, this, this, this, this and this. And then I sent that information to Bridget and Lynn and they're like we knew it. We knew it. So then she created a wonderful post on LinkedIn talking about it. And then I wrote a blog with all the information and, like what happened, it was the most read blog I've had in like three years or something like that.  03:52 Yeah, it was crazy.  03:53 - Anne (Host) What's so interesting is it could have been a legit job, like for payment. You would have done it, they would have paid you for it, but they would have used your voice as an AI voice.  04:05 And so therefore, legally right in the end. Right, if you found out later on they could say, oh no, no, no, we paid you. I mean, it was a job that we paid you for and there was no extenuating circumstances or contracts to be signed which, by the way, I'm going to bring up Nava and the AI writer For all your jobs. You should be attaching that AI writer so that your voice is not going to be used as an AI voice, for sure, for sure.  04:37 - Tom (Host) So, to let everybody know, the website was GigLumin G-I-G-L-U-M-I-N. And if you do a Google search of GigLumin and this is what Bridget had figured out is that the website was only a month or two old. And there's these scam websites that you can enter the URL of a website in and it can tell you how likely that's a scam. It checked every red flag, every box, every single box.  04:56 - Anne (Host) So, yes, vo people, bosses, beware, right. So beware of emails. And you know, it's funny because it's lately, just because of the whole AI thing. Anytime I get an email with a job from someone that I don't know, right, that is just out of the blue, that I didn't audition for, where they have large amounts of words, the hairs on the back of my neck kind of stand up and I immediately, immediately check into it. And I think this really warrants a discussion, bosses, because it's very timely that you want to make sure that these jobs are legitimate. So the more research you can do. And I love, Tom Dheere, how you used AI to fight AI Again.  05:37 We had our previous episode on tools that we use. I mean, we are utilizing it as a tool to help us in our day-to-day jobs, and so I think, being aware of possible scams out there, we absolutely have to be, and I'll tell you if it's somebody that I've never heard of and they don't have a signature file. I've gotten to the point where I don't even like and it's not like from a company.com. I don't even literally take it seriously anymore. I don't know about you, Tom, what do you think?  06:05 - Tom (Host) Yes, I'm equally skeptical these days but, I, really like what you said about when you receive the email, check to see if there is a signature at the Tom of it with the company logo, website and contact information. That is one of many red flags and I don't know how much you've noticed lately, Anne, but since I would say about early April, there has been an explosion of scam attempts going on in the voiceover industry. We've had the overpayment scam. That's been going on for at least 10 or 15 years.  06:37 - Anne (Host) Gosh, at least, and bosses. If you haven't heard about it, Tom, let's talk about the overpayment scam for just a minute. Yeah, yeah, Okay so what happens is it's very common.  06:45 - Tom (Host) It's very common. It's been going on for a really long time. So basically they email you and say hey, we've got a project for you, da-da-da-da-da-da. The classic one was the game show host voiceover.  06:55 - Anne (Host) It has since evolved.  06:56 - Tom (Host) And basically they say that we've booked a studio in the area nearby. We're going to get paid or pay for the studio and then send us back the difference and something like that. And it's never a gig.  07:12 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) All they're trying to do is get you to cash that check and send them money, which is fraudulent, by the way.  07:18 - Anne (Host) And, by the way, I've gotten to the point where, if I have a new client, the only way they can really pay me is electronically.  07:25 And I figure, if you don't have electronic means to pay me immediately before the job and it's even in my terms and I've done this for years, Tom, I always have payment in full prior to job start is appreciated and other options available upon request.  07:39 But if it's a new client, I'll take that out because I must have that money in my bank account before I will even consider finishing that job or sending a file. And I'll tell you what, Tom for all of my career it's worked for me Because if people are serious about hiring you, they know that you're a professional, they know that you're going to get the job done. Of course they have to put their faith in you. But in reality and I'll even say because you're a new client I require payment up front electronically. And here are the ways that you can pay me. And so I'll send them, like a QuickBooks invoice, or I'll give them a PayPal account or however that works, and I expect that money in the account and I wait for that money and I make sure that I have the money and then I'll proceed with the job.  08:21 - Tom (Host) That's a really good idea. There's nothing wrong with even asking for 50% or 25% or just some percentage of it. The fact that they're actually going to fork over money with no expectation of an overpayment or getting it back or disputing the payment or anything like that.  08:37 Once it clears, you know that they're serious. And there's a bunch of like. I use Wave apps, for example. That's a great way to do it and I'm pretty sure they can do a partial payment. Or you can just make one invoice just for the deposit and then issue another invoice for the balance If they're a legitimate client that actually has money that they're planning on paying you with, they would have no problem with paying at least a portion of it up front.  08:59 - Anne (Host) Yeah, a lot of my clients nowadays the larger clients that used to like work off of purchase orders, and then it would be like 90 days after the job has been submitted. We'd have to wait for that check, they'd have to generate the PO and everything. You'd sign contracts like vendor contracts and that sort of thing, which I've done a lot, and so if they've got a contract for you to sign, that's vendor, nda, that sort of thing, and you know the company. It's like a well-known company. They're on the web. They've been on the web for years. I mean you can pretty much trust in that where I'll do the job and then I'll get paid. If I've worked with them before, I know that's typically how larger companies work and so that's when I'll accept a check. But even now most of those companies they're going to electronic deposit, like ACH they call it.  09:42 ACH, yeah, so it's direct deposit to your bank and most of the companies I know will do that and that's a form of payment that I trust and that would be a client that I would trust. So if it's a larger company that I know they exist on the web and they talk about, well, you're going to have to do the job first and then we'll be able to pay you once the purchase order is created, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you sign these contracts. I feel fairly good about that and I don't have to think, oh, this is a scam. But whenever I get an email without an actual signature file that comes from an address that isn't companycom, right, if it's a Gmail or a Yahoo or whatever, even a Microsoft what is the free Microsoft one?  10:20 Hotmail, hotmail, yeah, even if it's Microsoftcom, I feel like there's some sort of free sort of Microsoft. You know what I mean Like email that says that I just don't trust it and I'll immediately. The first thing I'll do is look for a website and when I get to the website I'll look for a phone number and then I'll actually try to call that phone number. What are the steps that you take, Tom, to ensure that your job is legit?  10:41 - Tom (Host) Everything that you just said. I also, by the way, I do love the ACH direct deposit because there's no fee. When PayPal, there is a fee, or wire transfer. That's really nice. Here's one thing that I've been doing lately is, if I get a we'll call it a solicitation, for lack of a better term from a company saying hey, and it'll most often be we found you on Google, we found you on Voice123 or some other front-facing thing. You know what's an interesting thing to do? Go look for them on LinkedIn.  11:11 Look for them on LinkedIn. Look for the company and look for the individual and see if you have any mutual connections. I mean, it could be anybody, whether it's a voice actor or somebody in some other profession, and you can reach out on LinkedIn and say, hey, I got an email from this company and you have a connection with them on LinkedIn. What's your experience with them? And that could give you some really quick insight. Sometimes it's just like, oh, I've been working with them for years, or it's oh, they're a huge scam. I forgot to disconnect with them. Run, run, run. Or I'd sent a rando invite, or they sent a rando invite and I don't have any information for you. But it could increase your chance of vetting them a little bit better. Another thing is that I keep an eye out, for is if they ask me to send them a W-9, the more likely that they are legitimate.  12:00 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, which I find interesting because if they were a real, true scam artist, they would want that W-9, because now they would have your social security number and now they can steal your identity too.  12:11 - Anne (Host) Well, oh my gosh, Tom, and that's scary actually, but that's why you don't put your social security number. You put your EIN number, because you're a company right, and you don't have to give up your EIN number, which is, by the way, one thing. I'm glad you mentioned that like we should all be having an EIN number. I'm glad you mentioned that, like we should all be having an EIN number.  12:30 - Tom (Host) Yes, it's very, very simple to get. It takes very, very little time. So it's a very easy get. I just reminded myself and we just talked about identity theft is that I almost had my identity stolen yesterday.  12:43 - Anne (Host) Whoa, that's scary. Yes.  12:45 - Tom (Host) How do you?  12:46 - Anne (Host) know like what happened.  12:51 - Tom (Host) Okay, so it was about a little after 10 am yesterday is when things started happening, so within a few minutes of each other, I got an email from Credit Karma, norton which, because I have my Norton 360 antivirus software package, I pay a subscription through that and Experian. For those of you who don't know, there are three major credit bureaus there's Experian, there's TransUnion and there's Equifax. I have a free account with Experian and I have a free account with Credit Karma. All three of them, within a few minutes of each other, messaged me and said that there was a hard inquiry.  13:30 - Anne (Host) Yeah.  13:30 - Tom (Host) So what that means is if you are applying for a loan, a mortgage, a credit card or something like that, the company that you're applying to will do a credit check. So they will check your credit and see if you are a safe credit risk to make the loan or to get the credit card, for this was a hard inquiry. If you get enough hard inquiries on your credit, your credit will go down.  13:55 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I know that because I'm a stickler about my credit.  13:59 - Tom (Host) Me too. My credit rating, oh my gosh. If mine isn't at least 800, something I freak out, oh my gosh.  14:04 - Anne (Host) Yeah, no, mine has to be like almost close to perfect, and when it goes down like two points, I'm like wait why? Why did that happen? Right? And it's just because you put a charge on it for a few hundred dollars, and then you pay it off next week and then everything's fine, so that's normal.  14:18 - Tom (Host) So all three of them told me at roughly the same time that there was a hard inquiry. So I clicked on all the emails and all three of them said that somebody was applying for a Discover credit card, I think in Salt Lake City, and someone was applying for a Capital One credit card in Delaware, and I was in New York City neither applying for a Discover credit card or a Capital One credit card. I certainly wasn't in Salt Lake City or Delaware at the same exact time.  14:49 - Anne (Host) You know, what's so interesting, Tom, is that, like I don't know, a few months ago I don't know if there was a discussion circulating or maybe I got an email but somebody said, and like I should have done this years ago, I mean you can freeze your account so that if you don't open up a credit card every other day which I'm certainly not right Because again, it affects my credit rating and I'm anal about that and so I'm like well, I don't need to apply for any other credit cards, so you can go and freeze that, so that you can actually reduce the risk of somebody trying to open up credit cards or identity theft.  15:19 So and it's super simple to do it, as I said, everybody should have that free account. You should log in, you should check your credit scores regularly I think they allow you once a month, I think even my credit cards. My American Express will tell me oh, your FICO score has changed, right, so they're monitoring it too, and so literally, I get lots of notifications when that rating goes up and down. But I know that I've reduced my chances of identity theft, which is a very scary thing, by freezing those accounts and it's very simple to unfreeze. So, if you know you want to apply for a credit card. You just got to go and unfreeze it for a certain amount of time so you can apply for it and then freeze it back up again. So that way it reduces the risk.  15:57 - Tom (Host) And all those emails that I got, all those notifications did give me the option to do that. I was also able to say this because it, literally, when Norton 360 popped up and it took me to their website, it literally said is this you and you can check yes or no? And I wrote no and then the whole screen turned red saying okay, we know this is a problem, we will look into it.  16:17 It did it with all those and then I called Capital One Bank. It took me a few people. It had to get escalated a couple of times to the credit card fraud department.  16:25 - Anne (Host) Well, don't you say, they give you a special number, right?  16:27 - Tom (Host) They say call this number if it's not you, or you can call this number. I just called the general number because all that was on the notification, I think, was the Capital One in Salt Lake City or something like that. So I called directly and said please state your problem. I'm like I think I'm getting my identity stolen. And then it got up there and then they manually rejected the credit card application at least for the Capital One.  16:50 And then this morning I got another Credit Karma email saying that there was a check on my Equifax report not the Experian one and I looked at the date of it. It also said yesterday. So that means Credit Karma had my back twice and Experian had my back and Norton had my back twice. Right, right, and Experian had my back and Norton had my back and everybody bosses. This is the takeaway. Creditkarmacom is free, having an account with Experian is free, it doesn't cost you a nickel.  17:18 - Anne (Host) All of them TransUnion, they're all free TransUnion, Equifax, they're all free.  17:23 Exactly and you can check your scores and, like I said, a lot of banks and a lot of credit cards are actually adding that on as like a value add kind of service, but you don't have to pay anything for it. I think there's a lot of it going on, Tom, which is kind of scary. We got to be careful about scammers, that's for sure. And anytime, even in your email, right, if you get like again, if I find something that doesn't have a signature and then they have an attachment like PayPal has been well-known scams where you get like oh, you've got a PayPal invoice, right, and you have to pay this amount and it looks legit. I mean, they've got like the PayPal logo. I've gotten quite a few of those over the last six months.  18:01 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And.  18:01 - Anne (Host) I just ignore anything. Just remember that most financial institutions will never email you for information and they'll never text you necessarily for that information either, and you should also, Tom. We should have a big discussion on having multi-factor authentication.  18:19 - Tom (Host) Yes.  18:19 - Anne (Host) This is extremely important.  18:21 - Tom (Host) It's annoying as hell or two-factor, two-factor authentication For every account that you have, especially the financial ones, you should have two-factor authentication, which means either they send you a text message and you just click on the link and you're good to go, or it sends you an email and it'll usually give you a passcode of some sort and then you go to the website. When you're trying to log on, you enter that passcode and then it'll let you do it, and most of them are only good. Some of them are only good for 30 days. Sometimes you can check a box saying this is my private computer. It's okay for a certain amount of time, or they make you do it every single time, which isn't the worst thing in the world. Yes, it's annoying.  18:55 - Anne (Host) You know what I just thought about. It is annoying but it keeps you safe. It's funny how much like value you put in that number, that phone number, in this phone which, by the way, I just got a new phone but in this number for the two-factor authentication, right Like text me at this number. So think of the power that these phone companies have right, and that is scary. I mean it used to be a thing where I always thought like the large scale communication companies were a little bit of a monopoly, depending on the area that you're in. I mean, when I lived in the East Coast it was always Verizon right, verizon everything, verizon this, verizon that. Out here it's a couple of different companies but still, if you think about it, I mean I'm glad to have the two-factor authentication and it's super convenient on the phone.  19:39 But, it's interesting to know that you wouldn't want the hackers to get smart right and then start really infiltrating the phone, you know, and impersonating a phone number.  19:50 - Tom (Host) There's a couple of things about that is that, when it comes to authentication, when you're logging on your phone, I've got it set up where I just use my thumbprint for a lot of it.  19:59 - Anne (Host) I love that, or Face ID yeah the Face ID is a great one.  20:05 - Tom (Host) There's also a thing for a lot of the websites where I have a personal PIN that has nothing to do with the PIN or the password to access the site itself. If I am using my phone to log in somewhere, I can enter a four-digit PIN that's different from everything else, so it also increases the chance of having a secure whatever. Also, just as a rule, I don't do anything financial on my phone, with the exception of like Venmo Well, I have mobile banking If I'm like sending money if, like me, and the guys are having pizza, you know what I mean.  20:31 - Anne (Host) I have mobile banking and I do have Apple Pay.  20:35 - Tom (Host) Well, I have GPay too.  20:36 - Anne (Host) Yeah, so.  20:36 - Tom (Host) I'm a Google guy but like I will unless to my bank accounts online or Wave app or Wise or PayPal on the phone, unless I absolutely have to.  20:49 - Anne (Host) Interesting. I go to them quite a bit. Actually, you're probably fine because of all the precautions that you're taking, but I'm just a little extra neurotic about it. Oh, it's constantly got multi-factor authentication, but I get that. I totally get that. Wow, yeah, being careful, and you know what.  21:02 What's interesting is, back in the day and I'm going to date myself when I was working at the school and we had text-based email okay, and text-based email, I could have something and it was all based on like the Unix systems and so like hacking into a text-based, like I don't know how to say this, but hacking into a system like that, like a Unix system, and reading your email with text-based, you didn't always have like the conditions of people attaching things that could be viral, loading a virus on your computer. So I was always proud to say that I used text-based email and I used something called a PGP signature, which was a digital signature at the time, which meant that when I sent mail out, my PGP signature, it would actually negotiate and verify with the person that I would send it to so that it could be a verified digital signature. That indeed, yes, this mail did come from me, and I think that Norton probably has something like that now right. Is that with your email or no?  21:59 - Tom (Host) Yeah, it has all kinds of functions.  22:01 And it works on my desktop and it works on my laptop and it works on my phone. The most important function that it has is when I'm not home and I'm on my phone or my laptop or my tablet is the VPN when you can turn it on to make sure that if you're using Wi-Fi at a cafe or something like that, that it's secure, because apparently there are people who just like sitting around at a Panera or a Starbucks with their laptop and just waiting for someone to have an insecure Wi-Fi connection and they can just steal their life right there through their own laptop.  22:31 - Anne (Host) Well, it's funny how this conversation has turned into a big security conversation, starting off with scamming. Which guys you got to be aware? It's one of the reasons why, for all of my years and because of my years working in technology, I like wired connections. I mean Wi-Fi. I mean it's a wonderful technology and it's convenient as anything. However, it's not as secure as a wired connection, because a wired connection is basically, you know, your digital numbers flowing back and forth along a wire, versus all this information out in the air where, if somebody is sitting outside of my home, they can possibly hack into my wireless network and then they can run some sort of a tracer to see and to actually get my passwords, which is something that you don't really want that to happen. So you should really be cautious, guys, and I think it's always a good idea that, if you are working from home, if you have the opportunity to have a wired connection to your router, I think that that's better rather than using Wi-Fi. Number one it's more stable, right, it's faster and it's also more secure.  23:32 - Tom (Host) I agree. If you have a desktop at home and you are doing any kind of recording or you're doing basically anything, you should have an ethernet connection. That yellow wire with the big old phone jack that plugs right into the back of your computer and plugs into your Wi-Fi router.  23:47 - Anne (Host) And it sounds old school, but it's still the most secure method of data transfer.  23:51 - Tom (Host) Without question so if you are recording from home. If you're doing whatever from home, you have a desktop ethernet. If you have a laptop, I are recording from home. If you're doing whatever from home, you have a desktop Ethernet. If you have a laptop, I think the newer laptops don't even have an Ethernet connection. I have to think about my laptop and whether I even have one anymore, and here's the simple reason.  24:06 - Anne (Host) Think about it. It's a wire, guys. It's a wire. It's not like data floating around in the air which people can listen to. Somehow the frequency of the data traveling in the air right? Wi-fi works on frequencies when your data is traveling via a wire like a physical cable, unless somebody like I don't even know, unless they tap into that wire, right, somehow.  24:26 I don't know how they do that, and we're talking about your wire in your house going from your computer to your router. Right, that's as secure as it gets, right, unless somebody's coming into your house and hacking into the wire and tapping into it.  24:38 - Tom (Host) You've got some foreign embassy bugging your home.  24:41 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, doing some fancy work, you're not going to have to worry about your data being transferred. So if you're working on the internet right, at least the data that's transferring from your house to your router is absolutely secure. And then it's up to your internet provider right on the router, to their routers, to make sure that things are encrypted, things are secure and for the most part I mean that's been handled right. I mean there are hackers out there that they can hack into networks. They can hack into things like that, but you want to be as safe as you possibly can, so wired is best.  25:14 - Tom (Host) Yes, it's fascinating. We talk about hard security and soft security, yes, that's hard security, that's hard security.  25:20 - Anne (Host) So, if we go back to talking about the scams that are floating around these days, one thing I wanted to mention is I think one of the best applications for groups, facebook groups and social media groups and discussion groups is for that thing, so that you and Bridget were talking to one another about this job that you both got, and then it's really wonderful that we can come together as a community and protect each other right and say, hey, look, watch out for the scam. So it is one of the best advantages, I would say, of being a part of the social media groups in that way. Otherwise, we've talked about how it's hard to sometimes they're toxic, sometimes it's really hard to be on social media. But I would say one of the best reasons to be on social media, in those groups and in those forums, would be because of the protection that you're getting of us banding together and saying, hey, watch out, this is a scam.  26:09 - Tom (Host) Absolutely, it's one of the most important things. Community is more than just about you know rah rah and whoop whoop and you know we support you and feel better if you're feeling down, but like just actual education, along with inspiration and commiseration can literally save your identity Absolutely.  26:27 - Anne (Host) Wow, what a great conversation, Tom. So bosses out there, be aware of scams. Be cautious. Research, research. Take a look at those signatures when you get emails coming in, when you get something that's asking for lots of words and a good price and it seems too good to be true, guess what it might be. So make sure that you're communicating with the community as well, checking those jobs out and attach that AI rider to every one of your jobs. Now, it's simple. It's there at NAVA and it's free. You can attach that rider to every job. If you have a new client, make sure you're very careful with the payment options. You know we spoke about that. I always make sure I get money up front, or partial money up front, first to make sure that it's a legit client. What else did I miss, Tom, in this recap?  27:14 - Tom (Host) Hardware and software VPNs.  27:16 - Anne (Host) EINs yes.  27:19 - Tom (Host) Oh yeah, VPNs, EINs, Two-factor authentication.  27:20 - Anne (Host) I love it. Yeah, Make sure you guys are implementing all of that to keep yourself safe and secure. So great topic, Tom. I like geeking out like this.  27:30 - Tom (Host) Yeah, it's fun and helpful.  27:31 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I'm going to give a great big shout out to my sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like real bosses. Find out more at IPDTL.com. Guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  27:52 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Jennifer Sims, a voice actor, coach, and self-proclaimed "100% certified smarty pants," connect to explore the intricate layers of the voiceover industry. Listen in as we unpack Jennifer's unique journey, shaped by diverse experiences in acting, producing, and voiceover, offering a candid look into the crucial insights needed to navigate challenges and build a truly thriving business in today's landscape. Listeners will discover the essential role of professionalism and adaptability in connecting with clients, gain understanding of the industry's evolving demands, and appreciate the power of a well-rounded skill set.    00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey, guys, it's Anne from VO BOSS here. 00:04 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VO BOSS VIP membership, now with even more benefits. 00:10 - Anne (Host) So, not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP Plus Tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself. 00:21 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best: voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you. 00:32 - Anne (Host) Join us, guys, at VO BOSS and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit voboss.com/vip-membership to sign up today. 00:45 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO BOSS. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. 01:04 - Anne (Host) I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I have the pleasure and honor of being with a very special guest, Jennifer Sims. Jennifer, yay! Hi, hi. 01:17 For those bosses who do not know Jennifer, she is a voice actor coach and 100% certified smarty pants. I'm so jealous, so jealous of that branding. She's known for her authentic, conversational, confident, and playful delivery and has a unique perspective from both sides of the glass, and works for clients such as Hyundai, Wells Fargo, CVS, Vons—the list goes on and on and on. She honed her quirky sense of humor studying comedy and improv, which is always so important, I think, for us as voice actors, at the Upright Citizens Brigade and The Groundlings, and that helped her to land on-camera commercials for Uber, Snapchat, and WebMD. She began her acting career out of high school and basically was on her own for a short period of time in LA as a very young girl, which is great, and also as a producer, has had the pleasure of collaborating on hundreds of radio, television, and promo spots and has worked with some amazing talent along the way. And what haven't you done, Jennifer Sims? 02:18 - Jennifer (Host) I'm telling you, so much, so much. Thank you, Anne. That was lovely. Not as much as I'd like, and hopefully more. Yeah, thank you. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. 02:28 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. Well, I met you—well, I met you not like physically, but I met you through our VIP room and I was so, so impressed with your background and your wisdom and everything. So I wanted to make sure that I had an opportunity to have you on the show and so our bosses could also get to know you. So let's talk a little bit about your varied career, because I think it's super important in terms of why you're so successful now and how you started off with acting and then as a producer. Talk about that for a little bit and tell us how it's helped you become successful in your voiceover career. 03:06 - Jennifer (Host) Yeah, that's been very, like, it informs most of my career, certainly in the beginning, because when I decided to leave my director of broadcast job, I was working for an ad agency here in Los Angeles as the director of broadcast and I was bringing in a lot of voice actors for promo and commercials, etc. You know how it is when you see somebody and you're like, "Boo, why do they get to do it? I want to do it too!" But as I started my career, realizing that we're a part of the process, voice actors are part of a process, particularly in commercial, since that was my area, and when I was bringing in voice actors to record them, it comes very late in the process. Recording the voice actor for a commercial is one of the last things we do as a process in creating a commercial. 03:52 So, knowing that we're just—not just, I shouldn't say this, but we're part of a collaborative team, we're now brought into the team. We're problem solvers, we're creatives, along with the creative director, copywriter, and understanding why the copy is the way it is. I know a lot of us will—problem solvers, we're creatives, along with the creative director, copywriter, and understanding why the copy is the way it is. I know a lot of us will go, "Oh, this copy is terrible. It's poorly written," and, like, you don't know where that copy has gone. 04:12 - Anne (Host) Isn't that the truth? I love that you just opened up with that perspective because, honestly, like the nuggets of wisdom that people get out of listening—you brought them right at the front when people get for listening to a podcast or being educated. I love the fact that we are part of a process and you brought that to our attention because I think a lot of times we're in our bubble in our studios here and we forget that it's not just all about our voice, but it's part of a process and there's reasons for so many things. Right? There's reasons, and you're so absolutely right. 04:46 How many times have you gotten a piece of copy and I've heard my students, "Oh my God, this copy sucks!" Or I've read on some forum where people are like, "Oh my God, the copy sucks," and "Why does the copy suck?" But I think it's important to know that, yeah, we are part of a collaborative process and it doesn't begin and end with us, and that's an important part to understand so that we know where we fit in. And the more that I think we can predict how we can fit in best to complete the process, I think will really help us as actors. 05:13 - Jennifer (Host) Yeah, exactly, really well said and so true. It's like, how do we fit into this process? Because we do, and even now, as an actor working on my, I will sort of forget that there's a lot going on and that when I get copy and I'm like, "Oh, well, I don't know how many R&D, research and development meetings they had on this copy. I don't know what focus groups might have said about this copy." Like, big companies spend a lot of time and money making sure that their copy is delivering a message that they want, money making sure that their copy is delivering a message that they want, and a lot of things. On the ad agency side, we're looking at things—that copy, and I'm like, "Well, legal says we can't say that." 05:51 Right, or legal says we have to say this. So, you know, when we're sort of like, "Boo, the copy couldn't be you," it's like, "Well, you don't know why." Yeah, it may be a legal thing. 06:06 - Anne (Host) It may be a client directive, it may be, who knows. I always try to remember that because, like somebody, somewhere was paid money to write this copy, and they know that product, or there's an intent with that product, or there's an intent with that copy that we are not necessarily aware of, nor do they tell us, but it's something that I think that we, as actors, we need to create that story, even if they're not telling us what it is. We need to create that story so that we can connect as much as possible to that copy and fit into like what they hear in their head. Right? We need to fit that spec there. 06:34 - Jennifer (Host) Exactly, and I think it also goes to the idea of given a level playing field of extremely talented actors. Most often, I only needed one person to do the job to solve the problem of whatever problem we were trying to solve creatively. And so I think it's easy to start to feel like, "Oh, I got rejected. I don't book this kind of work." It's like, given a level playing field, just assume that somebody got selected. But it—a level playing field, just assume that somebody got selected, but it doesn't mean that everyone else was rejected. Honestly, as I was listening to actors, I'm like, I wouldn't get in all my auditions for, say, a television commercial voiceover, and I would maybe listen to 50, a hundred, and then call it down to present to my boss, my creative director and client, maybe 10. And any one of those people could have booked it. Somebody got selected, that's all. 07:27 - Anne (Host) It's just a matter of selection, and the thing of it is is that you're at the beginning of that process, listening to all of those auditions. You would narrow it down to a particular amount of people, but then, ultimately, the decision is not necessarily yours. So I think, voice actors, we forget that, that it can go to your boss and your boss is not. Maybe a casting director doesn't have an ear for it, or just this is what he had—he or she had in mind. And so the pick from then. I don't think it's always necessarily based on your acting skills. It's just like a feeling, maybe, that they have. "Oh, yeah, this sounds right." 08:02 - Jennifer (Host) Yeah, it's very subjective. Yeah, it's very subjective. 08:05 - Anne (Host) And I think we forget that. 08:07 - Jennifer (Host) Yeah, and I know that, being that it's so subjective, if you sound just not quite what they want. I had a creative director. I was presenting talent. This woman was extremely talented. I was advocating for her. He's like, "Eh, she sounds a lot like..." I forget if it was his cousin or his ex-wife or somebody. He's like, "And I don't like that person." So she just reminded him vocally of somebody in his world that he's like, "Don't like." She was very good, like perfect for the role, and, subjectively, my creative director was like, "Nope, reminds me of someone, and I don't like that person. Bye." And I'm like, "All right. Well, that's how that's going to go." Or we get replaced. I was the voice of a promo for a really, really long time. It was a great recurring gig and somebody new came in at the top. The client switched positions, new client, and they're like, "No, I want to pick the voiceover," and so, like, I was out. They felt like that was the prior stamp. 09:06 And now they wanted to stamp it with their own. 09:09 - Anne (Host) That's such a good point because a lot of times, like companies change directors, companies change in departments, and a lot of times you may be the indirect result of that or not like being let go because of things like that that you have absolutely no control over. And so that is also a big part of the process in our heads as actors. We need to remember that on any given day, that it's not always—I think that if you can come into your audition with the skills that you need—the actor skills. Everybody says, "What's trending? What's trending these days? What's the sound these days?" And I'm like, "I think just be an actor, have good acting skills." 09:48 Maybe have good acting skills, because I feel like if you have good acting skills and the person, like say you, right, that is at the initial level of listening to all of the auditions, right, you're going to be able to hear that from the get-go, from the first few words. You're going to hear, "Okay, here's an actor. Now, what I like about this actor is that I can work with this actor." So maybe they didn't give the precise read that you were looking for at the time, but you know that they're an actor and that they'll be able to be directed. Exactly. And I think that's so important—best that you can come in with in your audition, to be armed with your acting skills, to showcase those acting skills, because all the other stuff we just have no control over. 10:25 - Jennifer (Host) Exactly. Control what you can. You know, getting auditions in a timely—Anne, naming them properly, file naming. I always talk about like naming those. 10:34 - Anne (Host) Like, why is that so difficult? I don't know. I come from a technology background. It always amazes me how many times people like don't understand how to name files when here's the convention and yet somehow. Right, just copy and paste it and then write your name. 10:50 - Jennifer (Host) I don't know why, but I don't think actors realize that if they mislabel a file, it's going in the trash. That'll piss off somebody. 10:57 - Anne (Host) I mean, like me, especially somebody that I'm handling a lot of files, right, and especially like if I have control over it, like you're not hired, and if you're going to argue with me about the name of that file, or if I gave you a confusing—no. I mean, sorry, just follow the following instructions. 11:12 - Jennifer (Host) But yeah, I think that actors may not realize that if you are missing those little details, like not following the spec, or because you're just like running and gunning and just like, "I'm in a hurry, I'll just read the copy," or not connecting to the copy, or mislabeling the file, it's like that's going to get you booted out of the mix because there's just not enough time and people don't understand. "Oh, so I put my name before the client's name." It's like if you're in casting or you're producing, you're not just casting one thing. So if you put your name first before the client's name, I don't know what to do with this file. Or usually it goes into a database and so the database is just going to go, "I don't know what to do with this. Garbage." I think people just realizing like why it's so important could be helpful. So people just slow down a little bit and go, "Oh, what's the file convention?" That's it. That's my TED Talk on file name. 12:03 - Anne (Host) There you go. I like that. Well, I'm right there with you on the file—I'm on the file name, I know, because you're dealing with hundreds of files, I know, right? I mean. So I touched upon this a little bit in your bio, which I think is so interesting, is that you studied comedy. Talk to us. And improv, of course, everybody always says, "Yes, improv, improv," yes, and improv, of course, is so important. But I also think comedy, too, is important, because this is just my outside looking in perspective, right? When we're listening, right, we need to command the attention of the audience. Right? Whether we're voicing a commercial or a corporate narration or whatever it is, we need to engage the attention of the listener and that is important. And I feel like comedy is absolutely one of those techniques that can be used to get people's attention and keep it, and I think it's important that if you have comedy in your script, that you can find it and you can execute it. So talk to us a little bit about that and the importance of comedy and improv. 12:58 - Jennifer (Host) Definitely. Have you been seeing a lot of scripts or a lot of castings where it's like we want people with comedy and improv, even though they may not ask you to necessarily be super hilarious or improv, they're listening for a nuance? A nuance, exactly. Comedy is like very subtle, I think, in voiceover, because when I was producing on the agency side back in the day, comedy in commercials was a lot more prevalent. We had double copy. We very rarely have two characters talking anymore, so it was a little more like in your face kind of comedy. 13:33 Yeah, back and forth kind of. Yeah, back and forth, you could riff off the other person. Now we're pretty much just doing one person voiceover, so that comedy has to be layered in, but never steal from the actual hero—our product or our client. And I think a lot of times when we're newer as voice actors, we're going for the "yucks" like, and it's like, "No, that's going to get you also noticed for all the wrong reasons." So I think I agree with you entirely. It's got to be layered, it's got to be nuanced, and you have to be able to find it. Sometimes people when I'm coaching, they miss the joke. I'm like, "Do you see that there's like a little pithy wit here?" 14:10 - Anne (Host) They're like, "No." I'm like, "Great." Or a play on words. And here's the thing too, you know, in writing scripts for demos and for my students, comedy is tough to execute in a certain time, like comedy is tough, especially if you're doing comedy writing in a demo. It's very tough to execute without sounding like a one-liner dad joke, right? Yeah, oh gosh, so true. And especially if you need to execute that time and just in a 30-second, 15-second commercial, to execute comedy and a sale at the same time is tough. 14:38 It's tough to do, it's really tough and so it does become very nuanced, right? And corporate, like when you get into like something longer, like corporate narration, you're not going to necessarily find too much humor, unless the brand itself doesn't mind making fun of itself, right? There's not many corporate—not many companies, I know, that make fun of themselves unless they have quirky products, right? If that's our corporate culture, great, but a lot of corporate is like, "No, very straightforward." 15:02 But they might have a nuance, right, and so I love the fact that, yes, if they're looking for that nuance and that is something that is it's maybe a nuance, right, and so I love the fact that, yes, if they're looking for that nuance and that is something that is it's maybe a note, it's a wink, it's a point of view that I think if you can execute and it only needs to happen like a little instant, then that to me, I can hear it right away and people can hear it right away. 15:23 They might not put their finger on it and say, "Oh, that was funny, like ha ha, knee slapping funny," yeah, but the execution of it is really it's key, and I think that comedy and improv is wonderful for people to have as a background in their acting skills. Yeah, I agree, comedy's tough. Did you perform like stand-up comedy? 15:42 - Jennifer (Host) No, I actually took a couple. I'm like, "No, I'm a smart-ass," but that was tough. So I took—a friend of mine was teaching. She is a comic and she taught classes and I did two of her classes, and after the first class, she's like, "Okay, and you know, as you know, we're going to an open mic," and it was torture. It was brutal. Just a bar room full of people going, "Make me laugh," and I'm like, "This is hard." 16:11 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I can't imagine. I have a friend who did stand-up in Burbank. Right? Everybody's at Flappers. Everybody's at Flappers and, "Come see my show at Flappers," and if you want to feel challenged, I mean stand-up at a mic in front of an audience. That's like, "All right." 16:26 - Jennifer (Host) Yeah, like just staring at you and you're sitting with the mic going. 16:29 - Anne (Host) Make me laugh. But there's where I think, like the thinking fast on your feet is going to help you, and I think it's going to help you no matter what. I mean those of us who aren't necessarily doing comedy like stand-up comedy, but here we are in our booths and we're doing auditions, right? I think, if you have the time to evaluate and analyze your script and find the humor—I mean we have the luxury of some time of finding that humor and being able to execute upon that. I think if you can do that, if it's there in the copy, that's what you try to put up front and showcase. 17:02 - Jennifer (Host) I always say I'm going to zag. If everyone else is going to zig, I'm at least going to zag appropriately, because they also don't want to be the actors like. "Well, I remember her for the reason that she went off the rails." It has to make sense. 17:15 - Anne (Host) It has to make sense for the copy, right? And so I feel like that improv also, when I ask my students to create the scene, right? Be actors for a corporate narration that might be talking about investments or something that might sound dry. What is that story? Who are you talking to? Why does it matter? 17:31 You've got to be able to have that quick, like, let me create the scene and let me respond to it, right, and that just helps to enhance your script analysis, the speed at which you do that, and also if you're being asked live, like, "Give me an AB of that," or an "ABC of that." 17:45 - Jennifer (Host) Yeah, how are we going to do that if you haven't created exactly scenario? I always think about how, in scene work and acting, we think about the moment before. Yes, and it's always because you'll hear actors, or I've heard this in auditions lots, where I'm listening to an audition, particularly when I was producing, it's like, "I don't even know why." I hear them saying the script. Why are they saying those words? Why are you even talking? It feels like you just sort of like dropped in cold and started talking, but I don't know why. Yeah, and I always can hear an actor who's a little bit more connected to the copy. Yeah, absolutely, and that's because they created some reason for talking in the first place. 18:21 - Anne (Host) Yeah, they created a reason to say those first words. There's got to be a response or a reaction. I say that even for corporate copy, definitely. 18:29 - Jennifer (Host) Even for e-learning. 18:30 - Anne (Host) You know what I mean. Like you've got a student that just asked you a question and so otherwise, it sounds like to me, I'm always telling my students, it sounds like once upon a time I started a monologue. 18:39 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Yeah. 18:40 - Anne (Host) And it just became like, "Oh, I picked this thought out of the air and I just started saying it." 18:44 - Jennifer (Host) And there's no reason for it, and so it's weird how we can hear that, isn't that weird? It's like the microphone, sort of like picking up your thoughts, sort of like the camera records thought. That's why you've got to have something going on behind your eyes. 18:55 - Anne (Host) I think it's like you can hear somebody reading, right, because there's a certain melody and—and I know there's got to be scientific evidence, right? There's a melody that we have when we read words and I know it very well because I'm always telling people to stop reading. Start talking. 19:08 - Jennifer (Host) Stop reading. You sound like you're reading. 19:11 - Anne (Host) And so there's a melody to just reading the words, and it seems to start at the same pitch, like, "Hi, I'm Anne, I started here once upon a time." I've heard casting talk about this. 19:21 - Jennifer (Host) Voice casting agents will talk about this all the time. It's like, again, given a level playing field, the first people we're going to boot out of the running are people who sound like they're reading as opposed to talking, and it's a challenging skill set because we are literally reading scripts, but we're interpreting written speech into spoken speech, and it's a skill set. So it takes time. And I was thinking about how, whenever I'm auditioning for something, I think, well, I'd love to book it, of course, but I always think I'm not auditioning for this one, I'm auditioning for the next one, because, let's say, you know, I don't get selected for this one. I want you to remember me for the next one. So, something I do in this audition, I want to spark a little like, "Well, let's keep her in mind for something else down the road," because that's all I can control, absolutely, absolutely. 20:13 - Anne (Host) Speaking of auditioning and being an active voice actor and a woman of a certain age, and I say that, you look amazing. 20:19 - Jennifer (Host) Well, thank you, but let's face it. We've been in the business for a while, not a teenager. 20:25 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I cannot sound millennial, no matter what. 20:27 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I do, even though I have a younger sounding voice. 20:29 - Anne (Host) No, it's mostly in the attitude. But let's talk a little bit about having been in the community and been in the industry for a while. What's it like these days being a little bit older in this industry? How are you finding work? Is it plentiful? Are you finding? 20:42 - Jennifer (Host) Yeah, I mean it's plentiful, but I still think that in general we're youth-oriented. 20:49 So if you're over a certain age, 40 or beyond. Oh, let's face it, I haven't seen 40 in a minute. Yeah, me either. And look at us, we're thriving. There we go. The voiceover industry is definitely very inclusive. It's getting more diverse all the time. Like when I was producing commercials, you most definitely had to sound a certain way, be of a certain demographic, and now we're hearing all sorts of wonderful, diverse voices. I still think there's room for us to include more voices that are definitely over 40. I'm still hearing people on the air where I'm like, "You don't sound old enough to tell me about retirement or having a baby." 21:27 - Anne (Host) You sound like a kid. I always try to tell people I start with the product, because I feel like companies are going to promote their products to the demographic they can sell to. 21:38 So it starts there, right? So what sort of a product would you sell to a demographic of females over 40 or females over 50? And I feel like that's where it starts. I feel like the younger sounding. I think it's because the company is trying to expand their demographic to make more sales. I think that's where it starts anyways, because I'm always saying, "Well, the trend right now is a little bit towards more millennial, and that's just the way it is." But I feel like there are certain products that a millennial does not sound realistic. 22:04 - Jennifer (Host) Talking about like Depends, right, or retirement or certain financial instruments or mortgages or things where it's like wouldn't you have to be a little older to be getting? An elder millennial, at least to talk about that. 22:17 - Anne (Host) Go you elder millennials. It's hard to believe. I know that in automotive that was a big thing because with Uber and bosses out there, if you study like it's not hard to study, like demographics and marketing, right? I mean during the pandemic nobody was buying cars and younger people were not buying cars because they were really reliant on Uber and Lyft and the rideshare stuff. 22:38 And so car companies started really marketing hard towards younger people and that changes who they hire right to do their voiceovers, and so I think it's something, bosses, that you need to really like spend a few minutes every day studying the market that you want to sell into. Really, it's not hard, it's Google. 22:57 - Jennifer (Host) Yeah, it's iSpot, Google. And. 23:00 - Anne (Host) Google says that honestly, like you can just type in, like, you know, demographic, automotive demographics or, you know, trends, it's easy to find that out and that can help inform you educationally what you might be auditioning for, how you would respond to an audition, right? What is the company? 23:18 - Jennifer (Host) Who are they targeting their sales to, or who you're, if you're doing direct marketing, which I think every voice actor should be doing, if you're directly marketing yourself to a client. It's like, do you vibe with that client? Are you appropriate for that client? So that's basically how I'm represented. I have talent agents across the country and it's very clear to me that my reps are very good about knowing what my wheelhouse is. So I do get a lot of healthcare, insurance, tech, things like that—healthcare, insurance, tech, things like that, because that's who I vocally appeal to. 23:53 It makes sense, and women have an enormous buying power because we make most of the household buying decisions in most households, and so, even though I still think the guys are doing about 60% of the commercial voiceover work, we're at 40%, so we're catching up, but I think companies are starting to realize that women's voices are appropriate for their products and they want to market to us. So I think we're doing better all the time. So, yeah, there's a lot of content out there. 24:22 - Anne (Host) So I would say that, with all our wisdom, with all your wisdom—with our collective wisdom, with all our—no, with your wisdom. What would be your best tip for people that are just starting out today? Because the industry has evolved over the years and it has definitely changed. So today, if somebody's interested in pursuing voice acting, what do you say to? 24:41 - Jennifer (Host) Them? Brand spanking new, I'd say, and I know people are like, "But you all are coaches, so of course you're going to say this," but I would say this even if I didn't coach it: it is a skill set. And so I think you've got to start with good training, and I tell my students this all the time: Get involved in the voiceover community, get your squad together, get an accountability group, a voiceover workout group. You and I were just at the Nava Gala. Is it Gala or Gala? 25:07 - Anne (Host) Gala. 25:09 - Jennifer (Host) I think Gala. 25:09 - Anne (Host) Gala sounds more elegant. 25:11 - Jennifer (Host) Nava Gala. 25:12 - Anne (Host) We're the Nava Gala. 25:13 - Jennifer (Host) And it's just, it's a constant reminder that when we're so isolated and working on our own, if we don't have community around us, this job is hard. It is. I love the voiceover community so much, and so we have a community around us. We're learning things, we're sharing things, and so I always suggest to people, they're like, "Oh, I don't know what to do. How do I help myself in this career?" I'm like, "Well, get good training and get involved in the community so that you're constantly learning from your peers." Or at least, because we're working by ourselves, it can feel a little lonely and isolating. 25:47 - Anne (Host) Get some VO pals and get lifted up and listen to podcasts like the VO Boss podcast. 25:52 - Jennifer (Host) Yes, please. Listen to VO Boss, listen to VO Boss, guys. I've been doing this for eight years now. 25:59 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, it seems so forever. Eight years, amazing, every week. 26:03 - Jennifer (Host) I love it. Oh, my goodness. 26:04 - Anne (Host) Wow. 26:16 - Jennifer (Host) So if bosses want to find out more about you, where can they find out more about you? 26:18 - Anne (Host) I'm a busy kitty on the Instagram at Sims, my website, Sims. I'm busy there too, so, yeah, awesome, come see me. Well, Jennifer, it has been so much fun. I think we could probably talk for another hour or hours. 26:27 - Jennifer (Host) It would be a delight, but I know you're booked and busy, so we'll get on to other things. 26:31 - Anne (Host) But I thank you so much for spending your morning with me and bosses, make sure you look up Jen. Can I call you Jen? Jen? 26:40 - Jennifer (Host) Yeah, go by Jen. Look up Jen. I want to say Jennifer. Jen. 26:42 - Anne (Host) Check out Jen's website and check her out on her socials. Jen, check out Jen's website and check her out on her socials. Yes, please, bosses. 26:49 - Jennifer (Host) Yes, absolutely. 26:56 - Anne (Host) Thanks again, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTL.com. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye, bosses, you're the best. 27:06 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.

Are you looking to take control of your financial destiny as a voiceover artist and business owner? In this insightful episode of the VO BOSS Podcast, Bosses Anne Ganguzza and the lovely Danielle Famble delve into the critical importance of understanding your hourly rate across all your income streams. They share practical strategies for calculating your worth, optimizing your schedule, and confidently negotiating your fees to build a thriving and sustainable voiceover business. 00:03 - Speaker 1 (Announcement) There's a voice revolution going on between podcasts, smart speakers, voice assistants, social audio. All these things are here to stay and there's more to come. What VO BOSS recognizes are the shifts in the industry, and they always get experts on to explain what's next and how talents can stand out. 00:25 - Anne (Host) Hi, guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Are you looking to discover true happiness and fulfillment? My coaching services are here to help you find joy, overcome challenges, and live your best life. Let's take that first step towards happiness today. Visit anneganguzza.com to get started. 00:45 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO BOSS. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 01:04 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here again with the lovely Danielle Famble. Hey. 01:15 - Danielle (Guest) Anne, so happy to be back. How are you? 01:18 - Anne (Host) Oh, I'm doing good, Danielle. What are we talking about this morning? I have no clue. 01:24 - Danielle (Guest) Honestly, same. I really have no clue, but we look good and we are here to talk about money, so we can figure it out. 01:32 - Anne (Host) There we go. Well, you know, it's so interesting because if I don't schedule it in my calendar, right, it just, at this point, my calendar, I live by my calendar. I know I've mentioned that to you before, like, literally hourly. I schedule my time hourly, and it's funny because sometimes I have my students that want to get in coaching sessions with me and they get frustrated because my schedule is booked up, but if I don't put it on my schedule, like, it just doesn't get done. 01:57 And interestingly enough, my schedule has a lot to do with the hours I work and the amount of money I make per hour, and I think that it's so important because I can only schedule my coaching services for a certain amount of time a week. 02:12 - Danielle (Guest) Right. 02:12 - Anne (Host) Because at other times, I have to make sure I'm allocating that to my other income streams, right, and so I think it's always important to know, as a voice talent and as a business owner, what is your time worth per hour? Like, what is your hourly rate? How much money are you making per hour? Because that can tell you like, oh, I should spend a certain amount of time coaching and a certain amount doing voiceover, hopefully, because that's the value that we don't know. Like, that's not standard, we can't depend on that. There we go. 02:39 - Danielle (Guest) When you know, like, your hourly rate, like what you're charging for, what you're bringing in, then you actually can figure out how you can grow it. So maybe you grow it by increasing your rate, or maybe you grow it by shifting your focus in those higher hourly buckets. So if it's a different genre or things that you're doing, maybe your day job pays you more per hour than a particular side hustle that you have. 03:02 - Anne (Host) Oh, good point, yeah. 03:02 - Danielle (Guest) You know how to spend your time. I am also very guilty of being the person who always needs to look at my calendar to figure out what I'm doing, because if it is not on my calendar, it's probably not getting done and probably got lost somewhere in the shuffle. But yeah, I mean, knowing how much your time is worth and how much you should be getting paid for working an hour is so helpful to be able to financially plan for what it is that you're wanting to do and how much money you're trying to bring in. 03:33 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and as we entered into this podcast, going, hmm, what are we going to talk about? Had I not scheduled that time into deciding? Here's my schedule, right? So I need to schedule time to prepare my schedule, or to prepare, like, the topics we're talking about. Luckily, though, Danielle, you're just so easy to talk to. We can figure it out on the fly. 03:50 We can just spin off on, yeah, which is really good. But yeah, I found that it's so important. What are your highest paying income streams? Right, and so for me, voiceover, right, voiceover, depending, but what type of voiceover, right, exactly, it can be genre specific. 04:04 So that would be like voiceover commercial, right, it's the shortest amount of time that pays the highest. Next in line voiceover wise might be medical narration, right, because I have a higher rate. But then you've got to figure out, well, what's the frequency? Now, wouldn't it be great? I think a lot of times when people first get into this industry, they think, oh yeah, I want to do commercial work because I get paid the most doing that, or whatever it might be. But it's not every day that you're booking eight national commercials, if only, so you have to figure out the frequency at which that happens. 04:35 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Yeah. 04:35 - Anne (Host) And then schedule accordingly. Like, what do I get paid per hour coaching? What do I get paid per hour doing a demo? So I think that really understanding what your time is worth on an hourly basis and then being able to assemble, right, the optimal schedule that can get you the most. 04:53 - Danielle (Guest) And also building in times when maybe you're not going for the most amount of money in that time. 05:00 - Anne (Host) Maybe you're building in rest that I tend to like forget about. It's funny because I will forget to schedule or block a day, like, after a day of travel, right? Because I know that after a day of travel, my time clock is going to be all screwed up, especially in a creative sort of a way. I mean, yes, if a client says to me, can you do a voiceover right now? Yeah, I'll do everything I can to do that. However, getting that rest in so that I can mentally refresh to be the very best version and be more efficient with my time, yes, is absolutely something that you need to take into consideration is scheduling that time and scheduling, believe it or not, travel time. I'm always forgetting about travel time, especially when you have calendar systems that work for you. You can build in your buffer. Like, in between students, I build in a buffer of 10 minutes because, God forbid, once in a while I have to go to the bathroom. 06:20 - Danielle (Guest) Or like drink a little bit of water, or stand up, or like walk around. You know, you got to be a human being. 06:26 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly. So you have to schedule that time. But I found that I've had to do that and I'm always like, these days it's when I forgot to schedule in time to do this or travel time, or I forgot to schedule a few minutes for me to get back from Pilates class, right? Now, I've actually scheduled time for my health, which I think is so important. My Friday mornings I take two Pilates classes in a row and I can't start my day until a certain time. 06:52 - Danielle (Guest) Two in a row is wild, and good for you, because, well, one's a stretch class. One is a stretch class. 06:58 - Anne (Host) So I start off with like an actual Pilates class and the other is a Pilates stretch class, but it's stretching, by the way, can be very painful. 07:04 - Danielle (Guest) It's really important. It's really important, as you get older, you have to move your body and stretch your body. 07:09 - Anne (Host) And it's a workout too. 07:10 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, that's a hack, by the way, for those of y'all listening, make sure as you're getting older, don't forget to stretch. 07:17 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I think it's so important that you do physical things and you're physically fit to be your best in the booth too, because that requires mental and physical, believe it or not. I mean, especially when I talk. We've got to talk with our hands, we've got to be in the scene, and so there's a physical element to it. And darn it all, if these booths don't get hot for the most part, unless you've got that booth that has that quiet air conditioning system, which is like, I think that's something that we all as voice actors are like, ah, it's like, if only we could have, you know, and I have a nice ventilation system. 07:50 However, depending on the type of voiceover that I'm doing, I work in a certain size space and I talk, right, and that's energy that's creating, and there has to be an exhaust, right, and if you have an exhaust, then that's like a hole that external noises can come in. So there's always that delicate balance. But I digressed on that tangent. But being fit, I don't get as hot, so it helps me because I can maintain. That's a whole other podcast. But being fit can help you in all aspects of your business. 08:22 - Danielle (Guest) That's a really important point, because this year I, due to health circumstances, made sure to buffer my time and put into my calendar more time for physical fitness, for going out, just leaving the booth, leaving my apartment, even for walks in the evening, whatever it is. 08:43 I for a long time did not make sure to prioritize that and my health started to suffer. And then my work started to suffer because I wasn't resting. I wasn't able to really show up and be the VO BOSS in the booth that I was wanting to be, because I hadn't prioritized other things that maybe were not bringing in as much financial benefits, but were having huge ramifications in my business, because I had not put the time and the energy into making sure that physically I could stay in tip-top shape. So it's not always about blocking out the time for what's bringing in the money. It's also for making sure that the instrument that we use, our body, our mind, our voice, our instrument, can be as great as it can be, because we have done other things that are not necessarily bringing in financial benefits, but we are taking the time to really like, pour into our instrument and pour into ourselves. 09:38 - Anne (Host) Well, that's our product, right? So our product, because it's such a personal part of us, I mean, we're not making a physical product necessarily. Obviously, our voice is our product and so everything that goes into having a good voice and being mentally and physically prepared counts. That's got to be put into your hourly time clock for what that is, and I really believe scheduling that time is important. So then, with the hours that you have left, right, what is it that brings you a certain amount of money per hour? And then what is it that you need? So really, I think, if you sit down with like a schedule, right, and just say, all right, here I'm doing auditions, so is auditioning bringing me in money? Right, but maybe booking is bringing me money, and so it's really interesting to figure out, like, what your worth is on an hourly rate when you're deciding upon, should I invest that time in auditioning or should I invest that time in pursuing my coaching, or should I pursue my dream genre? How much time should I allocate to that? 10:39 - Danielle (Guest) Oh, I love that. I love that because you're making decisions based on data. You're making decisions based on hard numbers, and that makes it a little bit clearer, instead of what you think you should be doing or what you're hearing that other people are doing, you are making decisions, data-based decisions, which is exactly what a VO BOSS, what an entrepreneur, should be doing. 10:58 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. So you've got to take the numbers that are certainty, right, and you can guesstimate, like, if you receive jobs, like, I think that's the biggest thing that is out of our control. If we get a job, or you know what I mean, if we book the job, then we need to dedicate the time to do that. So maybe, in terms of how you're growing your business, are you going to do something else on the side, right? How much money will that bring in? It amazes me the amount of students that are coming to me part-time, right, they have a full-time job, that don't know their hourly rate, don't know their hourly rate that they get paid at their corporate job, and I'm like, you really should figure that out, because when you're trying to make those decisions, should I do this full-time, part-time? I mean, there's going to be that transition time where you're going to have to start building up business, building up repeat customers, because those would be the customers that you can depend on. Okay, this income is coming in, so my hourly rate will change for that. 11:50 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, and your hourly rate. We've already said this a little bit, but it can be genre specific. Yes, so Maria Pendolino likes to call it your pick up the mic fee. So whatever is like your baseline of what you will go into your studio, turn on your computer and like, do the work. What is that minimum? So you know, actually, if they're falling below your personal minimum pick up the mic fee, then it may not be worth your time. Maybe you can do other things like rest or doing physical fitness, or spending time with your family, or marketing or auditioning or whatever else that you need to be doing. You know the minimum amount that you would like to make her job or just at any moment to bring you into the booth. You know that minimum and then that actually helps you be able to say yes or no to projects as they come along. 12:39 But they are going to be genre specific. The amount of money that I make doing a 15 second national commercial is not going to be the same amount of money that I make when I'm doing an e-learning project, but I do know that the minimum to bring me into this booth to close the door and to like start talking and do what I need to do is X, and if it's not hitting X, then the answer for me probably is going to be no, or I know that I'm saying yes to it given other circumstances, and that's totally fine too. 13:10 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I may be different right now for you bosses out there that are only concentrating on voiceover, but when you have different avenues and you have different income streams, like, for example, everybody knows, I have the VO BOSS podcast because I'm on it. There's an income stream for VO BOSS, there's an income stream for VO Peeps, which I also run, and there's an income stream for Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions. 13:28 And so I know, for an event that I put on for VO Peeps, I want to make a certain amount of profit, and so, therefore, I have to determine what am I going to pay my guest director, what am I going to pay to my assistants to promote it, right, on social media? So there's a cost for all of that. And then so there's a number that I want to hit. There's amount of sales that I want to hit so that I can make a profit, or I can make the profit that I want to make for my monthly goal. So I literally have that, and those are actually easy to calculate, because those numbers are like, well, I know I need to make this. Now, how am I going to sell that many tickets, right? Well, I need to pay my assistants to help me market it through email, through social media, and so you just kind of run it down that way. 14:10 And then for VO BOSS, right? So I pay out a lot of money to produce this podcast, right? What do I need in order to support? You know what it costs on a yearly basis to host it on its own website? What do I need to pay my assistants to create the webpages that do the show notes? What do I pay the monthly subscription fee for, believe it or not, Riverside, which is how I record it, and Riverside does some transcripts for me. It does some YouTube shorts for me automatically. 14:39 So all of that stuff is calculatable, and so I love being able to have the different avenues of income and streams of income, because those are ones I can depend on and they're more concrete than getting a voiceover job, because that's the unknown, right? So I have a certain amount of time that I'm spending trying to acquire that voiceover job. I'm marketing, I'm doing direct marketing, I'm auditioning, and then I don't know if I get it. Then, believe it or not, that takes precedence over everything. I mean, voiceover is my highest paying per hour, and so, yeah, ultimately, if I didn't want to do all these other things like coaching and my VO BOSS podcast, I would spend all of my time marketing and dedicating myself to voiceover, because that's my highest paying per hour rate, and so that to me makes sense. However, I like to have multiple avenues in case there are those fluctuations in the market, which there are. 15:29 - Danielle (Guest) What I like about what you just said was you basically are able to reverse engineer your hourly based on numbers you are able to look at. Okay, this is how much I need to make. So therefore, I need to sell this number of seats to an event, or I need to have this much in sponsorships for the podcast, or what have you. I love that, because then it takes away from, oh well, I'm not really sure, or I'll go to this rate guide and use this number that was provided for me, because it may or may not be the right number for you, using the rate guide for an example. 16:07 It is a guide. It may be that the numbers that you see there may align with what your number needs to be that you can hit. What you can do is you can look at a lot of your expenses. You can look at what does it cost to run the business of you on a monthly or annual basis, and then you can actually calculate, okay, I want to spend this much time in the booth, or I want to spend this much time doing auditions, and you can actually calculate what you need so that that number is specific to you and then you know it. It doesn't necessarily need to be something that you put on your website, but when someone asks you how much would you quote for X, you are able to calculate your time, because your time has a lot of value, what is generally acceptable in the market, and then you can kind of give the number that is right for you and your business and your life. 16:57 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. And you know, I know that I kind of opened up that part of the discussion by saying, well, maybe I'm different, but in reality, we're all entrepreneurs. I mean, I love the different individual income streams that I have, and I encourage you, as bosses, to have those multiple income streams because, I mean, I'm not special. I mean, I literally just said, oh, I want to do this, and so, therefore, how am I going to be making money of this? If I wasn't making money off of, let's say, my other brands, then I would reconsider, well, are they worth it, right, are they worth it for me to continue? And how will I move forward from this point on? And so, bosses, man, I mean, the world is your oyster. 17:35 I mean, you are entrepreneurs. You can have any other income stream you want and really reverse engineer it just the same way I did. I mean, you could literally be like, okay, my first love is voiceover, and I want to do that. But also, you know what, I actually love shopping, like, I love grocery shopping, so I'll do Instacart, so that might be another income stream, right, or whatever other things that you love and you're interested in doing. Figure out, okay, maybe being an Uber driver is something. I know a lot of people that do that for money and they love it because they love driving, and so you can listen to lots of podcasts while you're driving, by the way, and so you could be doing double duty, like, educating yourself by listening to Danielle and I on your route. So figure out, like, okay, what am I making per hour for my Uber, right, services, and what am I making per hour for whatever my Instacart or whatever else you're doing? It doesn't have to just be voiceover. 18:23 Mine just happened to be voiceover related because they were things I wanted to do. I literally just said, oh, I want to be on the radio. You know what? The closest thing to that is a podcast. Yeah, let me see what that takes, right? And now I said, wow, it cost me money for this podcast, much more than I originally thought. How can I make some of that investment back? Right, how can I do that? And so I came up with the VO BOSS Blast. I came up with sponsorship options, I came up with ads that play, and so ultimately, it becomes a marketing venue for me. So lots of different ways, bosses, that you can work in your hourly rate and figure out what it is that you're making, and if you get so many rides from Uber, you know how much money you're making. I mean, that's concrete, it's there. 19:06 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, that's. The great thing about numbers is that it is concrete and you know how much that you can expect to make, and then you can figure out what to do with that money. Maybe it is staying within voiceover, but maybe it's looking at different genres that you're not usually working in, and you can calculate a higher hourly rate for a different genre and then use it that way to scale your business. So there's so many different ways to do it. I do love that you said to be creative and figure it out, because it doesn't have to be what you are seeing everybody else do. Your business is yours and you can make these decisions and you can choose how much you are getting paid. There's a lot of power in that. When you've taken the reins and said, okay, this is my floor, you can make so much more money in deciding how you want to diversify your time and diversify your hourly rate with maybe different genres or different ways to bring in money. I love that. 20:01 - Anne (Host) And how exciting is that? 20:03 - Danielle (Guest) Danielle, it's incredibly exciting. 20:04 - Anne (Host) Right. You said like, literally it's you, you're in control. Yeah, bosses, I want you to just sit there with that for a minute. You are in control of your business, of your destiny. Yeah, and so many people get so preoccupied with what other people are doing. This is your business. How exciting is that? You have, literally, you can do anything you want. I mean, really. I mean, if you're going to sit back in an intelligent and figure out, okay, I really would like to do this, how can I achieve income? How can I? 20:29 - Danielle (Guest) How can I achieve income? How can I? That's a really important question to ask yourself, because when you ask yourself, how can I do it, you, as a creative, will probably be able to figure it out, and you're not waiting for somebody else to give it to you. 20:43 - Anne (Host) It's so empowering. It's so empowering. I often say, having worked in corporate before and in education, honestly, like, I could never go back to working for someone again. To be quite honest, I mean, outside of working for a client for a brief amount of time, in which point I do it and they pay me and I'm out, I'm in, I'm out, I get paid. I love that. So what would be your recommendations on somebody, like, what would be their steps to sit down and figure out their hourly rate? What would you suggest they do first? 21:14 - Danielle (Guest) I would look at what you're currently working on, because again, it's probably going to be genre specific. So if you're doing a lot of non-broadcast narration, for example, you're talking about corporate narration or medical narration, figure out how much of that work you're actually currently doing and how much are you typically charging for that, so you know your non-broadcast hourly rates. And then you can also take a look and see if you're doing commercials, for example, if you're doing like TV and radio commercials, how much are you typically getting for that? And then what can you do to affect those numbers? You can raise your rates if it's non-broadcast. You can start doing more direct marketing, for example, maybe to find and bring in more clients. You can streamline your process. Maybe that is bringing in an editor. That's going to cost you money, but then you can kind of buffer and build that in. 22:08 But look at what you're currently doing, look at how much you're currently charging, and figure out what you can do about it. The easiest thing, it's not easy, easy, but it is something that you can do pretty quickly is increasing your rates. I mean, it's the end of the year. Rate increases are pretty normal for a lot of businesses. So take a look and see. Have you increased your rates in the last year, two, three years? If not, now's the time to do that. Maybe it's your cost per word for e-learning, something, anything, and you can make incremental changes that way, which will have huge benefits for your business. 22:42 - Anne (Host) Yeah, there's something to be said for the whole end of year, increasing your rates, even in times of hardship and bad economy. Right, you've also got to take that into effect, like what's the market rate, but you can increase your rate in a way that's not like obscene or it's not like a big jolt to your client. And a lot of times I'll preface, I have not raised my rates for five years and so I'm happy to have you continue as a client. However, I need to raise my rates. That is like a whole bold move, but it is something that you can absolutely do, because people raise their rates. I mean, companies raise their rates all the time. I see it, they raise their prices, and so you can do that. Just be careful, you don't want to make it too much of a price change so that it will jolt your customers into saying, I can't afford that. And even if they do say that, the cool thing about working with clients is that you can always like negotiate. 23:34 You can always backtrack and say, you know what, I've always loved working with you. Perhaps we can come to an agreement. And sometimes you do have to like. I mean, I've had it where a client says, I absolutely cannot pay any more than I am right now, and I'll say, you know what, I really love working with you, and I'll make that decision whether it's going to be worth my hourly rate to continue working with them or if it's time to say goodbye. And there have been times that I have said goodbye, and it's okay because it allows me my time back so that I can make more money per hour. 24:03 - Danielle (Guest) And if you bring in a new client that is paying this higher rate, then it kind of becomes like self-cleaning, in a way. And that's really great. It's a great way to increase your rates as time goes on. Another really great way to increase your rates is to get really comfortable with negotiating and understanding how to negotiate effectively. 24:22 - Anne (Host) Can I say that enough? 24:24 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, that's a really great way. And then you can figure out what your new hourly rate would be and you can negotiate based on what you know that to be, or, as Maria said, your pick up the mic fee. You can just make sure that you're hitting that standard minimum every single time. 24:39 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. And, like I said, concrete data is great data to reverse engineer, to understand that hourly worth. So, for example, like as I mentioned to you, commercial work for me is my highest paying work. Right after that comes medical narration, after that comes corporate narration and e-learning, because I charge the same. So I have a rate guide that I have a base knowledge of. Here's what I charge, right? And of course, I always promote GVAA rate guide and the rate guides that are out there to go for benchmarks and know that they're just benchmarks. 25:08 You can always adjust and, knowing this, saying, okay, I make the most of my money for non-broadcast narration on medical, perhaps I want to up my marketing in that genre, right, how can I get in front of the people who can hire me so that I can make that money? And so that might be. You're going to have to figure that into. Well, I might have to spend an extra hour marketing, and again, I can sacrifice that because I have my Uber on the side, which is bringing in money so that I can do that, or I can increase my Uber hours if I can't, or I can maybe rely less on one and then increase the other. So it's constantly, I think a balancing act, Danielle, it is. Right. 25:47 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) In terms of. 25:47 - Anne (Host) Okay, how can I do this? And so you should, first of all, have an idea of what you're worth. You should establish that number, right? So figure out what it is that you're getting paid the most for, and so, like, I'll do, like, a per hour rate of $1,500 to $1,700 for a medical, non-broadcast narration, right? Breaking that down, that's a pretty high yield, right? So then what is my coaching rate? Okay, so my coaching rate is $200 per hour, or you know what I mean. So how much coaching do I need to do per week? Or how much do I need to do to bring in? I usually like to think of it in terms of monthly, because I know that I have a certain figure that I like to achieve at the end of the year. Break it down to the monthly and then break it down to weekly, and sometimes weekly is tough because of the uncertainty of VO jobs, the cyclical nature of how things go, yeah. 26:33 Yeah, but then there are certain things that I know that every month, I do an event for VO Peeps and I'm going to make this amount of profit, right? Every month I have a subscription to this and so that's going to cost me this much, or I have people sending me money for a subscription, and so maybe I need to increase my marketing to get my subscriptions up, right, people subscribing to VO Peeps, that kind of a thing. So there's so many things that are good and concrete, and repeat clients are also. They're better than non-repeat clients, aren't they? 27:01 Because we can almost rely on them, we know what rate we're getting from them, and so it's easier to kind of juggle those numbers around. And then there's the uncertainty of the audition. Are we going to get the gig? And if we get the gig, do we have a client? Can we turn that client into a return client? So there's all the uncertainties. So you leave a certain amount of hours to handle that, right, to handle that. And if that's not happening in those hours, then you work towards maybe increasing your marketing to that, so it's not just like, I'm making the money. You got to have, I think, a certain amount of hours where you're spending the time working on always marketing or auditioning, trying to achieve those numbers. 27:40 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, I love that because it gives you a machine that's kind of like bringing in the next client and then you know what to do when it goes through your pipeline of actually booking or onboarding that client or trying to find more clients like the ones that you're currently working with. It gives you something that's like always working in the background and then what you're currently doing, and you can figure out how to tune your rates to maximize whatever is coming through that pipeline. That's right. 28:08 - Anne (Host) Good stuff, good stuff, Danielle, yeah. All right. Bosses, go out there and figure out what you're doing, figure out how much you're making per hour, depending on what division of your company that you're working in. So what are you making in commercial, what are you making in non-broadcast narration, what are you working in other income streams? And then plan accordingly and negotiate, yeah, and negotiate, absolutely. All right. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipDTL. Find out more at IPDTL.com. We love ipDTL. 28:41 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) You guys have an amazing week, and we will see you next week. Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry-revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via ipDTL.

  BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides dive into how to cultivate hope and resilience in the ever-evolving voiceover industry. Their inspiring conversation explores discovering your strengths, overcoming challenges, and taking action to achieve your dreams. They emphasize the importance of self-love, nurturing your community, and understanding your true purpose to remain joyful and hopeful. Anne and Lau share practical strategies for educating yourself on industry trends, adapting your marketing approaches to reach diverse clients, and even exploring self-production to build your skills and discover new passions. By embracing change and leveraging your entrepreneurial spirit, they empower voice actors to not just survive, but truly thrive and build the best year ever in their careers.   00:02 - Anne (Host) Hey, are you looking to unlock a better you? My Life Transformation Coaching Services are here to help. We'll work together to discover your strengths, overcome your challenges, and achieve your dreams. Let's take that first step towards your best self today. Visit anneganguzza.com to get started. 00:23 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 00:42 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with my absolutely wonderful friend and lovely co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey, Annie. Hello, I'm excited to be back. Hello Lau. I love chit-chatting, and you know what, it's been so long. I know, and we're here at the top of another year. Well, actually, a few months into another year, and I'll tell you what, it's been a little turbulent in a lot of ways. Gosh, I've had a lot of friends who have had some health issues. It's a new administration out there. The voiceover industry is still fighting against synthetic voices and AI, and I think let's talk about what's happening in the industry and what maybe our predictions are for this year, because I am determined and committed to have the best year ever. 01:33 - Lau (Guest) Oh, I love that. I mean, I just went to see a theater show, a professional theater show, in Connecticut. That was a big topic of conversation: how do we have hope? How do we still have hope in what we do as people in the world and also in our professions, and really coming in with that mindset, despite all odds, despite what's happening, despite whatever oppression you're feeling and moving through, how do we find hope in what we do? I'd love to hear, you know, start out with some of those mechanics of like how do I wake up and get hopeful about our profession? I love that. 02:10 - Anne (Host) What a great way to start. I love that. So I think that, now more than ever, we need self-love, right? We need self-love, we need to find the things that we're grateful for in our lives, and we need to have our community, and that, I think, is going to help us continue to have hope. I mean, I feel like those are the three necessary things that I need for me to remain joyful and be hopeful and continue to see progress in everything that I do and have a purpose, right? I really think that understanding what is your true purpose in life, finding your true purpose—which I think might be a lifelong search—but I have a good idea of what I think my purpose is and what I want to do in my lifetime, and I try to keep my eye on that mission, and that keeps me, along with people who I love and who love me, and that keeps me hopeful. 03:06 - Lau (Guest) That's great. I also feel like the next step for me is to start with that and then to take action. Because for me, I'm very much an action-based, execution-based person. So I wouldn't be happy staying in a zone where I have a thought, I'm excited about the thought, or I'm connected to something larger than myself. I'm really investigating that thought, but now I want to do something. 03:34 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and in that action, now you have to execute. Now you have to execute. I love that. I think that's a natural progression for anybody that wants to realize their goals is that you can write them down. All you want, right, but you've got to take steps and have action. You've got to take steps. 03:49 - Lau (Guest) So in our industry, that is the question: how do I go ahead and take a step every single day, whatever is going on in the industry? We see a lot of moves and changes in the industry. How do I take a step every day towards being hopeful and towards being optimistic and towards really something that's action-based? That's the question of the day. 04:12 - Anne (Host) Well, I think number one, if we step back and we take a look and we realize that we are indeed not just creatives, but we are entrepreneurs, we are business builders. First of all, take solace and give yourself props and be prideful in the fact that you are a business entrepreneur. And bar none, if the voiceover industry dropped tomorrow, right, you are an entrepreneur, you are a business owner, you know how to take something from nothing and build it, right? Because that's what you're doing now, building your voice acting career. And wherever you are in the journey, you just have to realize what an entrepreneur you are. And so, no matter what it is that you do, right, you can build your business and move forward in it, or move forward in it. There are always choices. 04:59 And so that's number one: stepping back and looking at it, I think, from the larger perspective and the fact that we have built skills, not just in our voices, not just in acting, but in our business acumen, and that is helpful, right? And so if voice acting kind of takes a dip, right—and I don't honestly, it's not—I really believe that, I don't think that it's going anywhere, I think it's right where it always has been and might even be more important this year. But for whatever reason, we always have to have like what's our plan B? I mean, this is why I always like to have like my different side hustles, side gigs. We've talked about that multiple times. So looking at that picture and there's my hope, right, I've got skills beyond voice acting that can help me to survive no matter what happens, right? 05:46 No matter what happens, no one can take that away from me. No one can take away my education, no one can take away my intelligence, no one can take away my work ethic, right? And that, to me, gives me hope. 06:00 - Lau (Guest) You go, girl. I love that, my resilience. You know, I think you're talking about too, Annie, something that's really important, and that is when we hone in and we GPS into our career. I think we do forget that we're whole people. Yeah, we're whole people that have a lot of skills. 06:16 - Anne (Host) We don't just have one skill. A lot of craft, no, no, no, we can do an awful lot of things. Now. 06:25 - Lau (Guest) We love to call it side hustle, but it may not be a side hustle. It may be an integral part of your life, your business, your world, that makes you feel whole, that makes you feel stabilized. You know, oftentimes with actors, we'll call it a survival job, but it may not be that. It may be something that helps you build your world. So I think that's important. I also think you should be looking at the market. You and I are always like, what's happening? 06:46 What's competition doing? What's this one doing? What's happening here? What are the trends? 06:51 - Anne (Host) Right, very important. 06:53 - Lau (Guest) But what's important about doing that, besides the logistical stuff, is to inspire yourself, sure. 07:01 - Anne (Host) If. 07:01 - Lau (Guest) I can't think of anything else. Like I am really out of thoughts today. I feel burned out, which is very common now. Entrepreneurial burnout. I don't have any more to give. I've been doing this a long time. I don't know what's going on. Ah, let me go into the world and let me see what others are doing to inspire me. 07:17 - Anne (Host) Oh yeah, I love that. Get outside my bubble. 07:19 - Lau (Guest) Goodness, there's. So not to be a copycat, but to feel like there's a lot of options, there's a lot of ways of thinking about what we do. I'm just stuck like a writer. A writer gets writers, they get stuck, writer's block, writer's block, right, and they have no more ideas, or so they think. And then some action gets them unstuck and opens up the floodgates. 07:40 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. Go on a vacation, go people-watch in New York City or, you know, that kind of—I used to do that all the time—to step outside of your bubble, and that will help you to really get that mind going. So I'm going to say that number one, there's so many things that we can do for ourselves to continually see success and find fulfillment in what we do. Continually see success and find fulfillment in what we do, and I think if voice acting is it for you, right, don't forget about continually building up your business skills and don't forget about, like as we just talked about, educating yourself and really going out there and understanding what the trends are. Now there's been a big shift in the administration, right? How is that going to affect sales of companies? How is that going to affect advertising? There's so much we can go out there and learn, right, and we don't know it all right away. I don't know it all right away, but I can certainly see that there's probably going to be trends. 08:34 Now, depending on what we're talking about, in the corporate world, we're going to be talking slightly differently. A few years ago, what was a big trend was DEI, and no matter what you think about DEI—diversity, equity, inclusion—how are people going to be talking about that today? How are people in the energy industry going to be talking? Is it going to be sustainability these days? Is it going to be alternative energy or is it going to be fracking? And again, like I'm saying, understanding—you don't always have to be in agreement with these things—but understanding where the trends are going and how companies are speaking. 09:08 If you want to work in that world, right, you have to at least be educated on how that world wants to talk to its clients or potential clients, because you will be representing that world with your voice. 09:21 And so, again, I'm not suggesting that you have to agree with any of it. But again, that's also like what is your moral compass? Would you work for a company that maybe is no longer concerned about sustainability or that's not in their agenda? I mean, there's so many people going back and forth on different companies that, based upon their policies, right, "Oh, I don't want to buy from this company anymore because they no longer support this particular idea or this particular policy," and so that's okay. I've had so many people are like, "I don't want to look, I can't," and they want to like shy away, but I'm going to tell you, look enough so that you can be educated, right, because you got to survive. You got to survive in this world, and I'm very, very confident that you will be able to survive in this world. But you have to remain educated and informed. 10:04 - Lau (Guest) Great advice, Annie, great advice. And you know, it's interesting, I had a talent I was coaching the other day and she said, "I'm very interested in medical, I want to do medical work, I'm interested in that, I have a background." I said, "Great!" I simply hopped on Google with her. I hopped on Google with her and I looked up and, sure enough, and she said, "I can't get into it. It's very hard to get into. I've been trying to knock down the doors. I don't know how to direct market. I'm stuck." Now. That is not my forte. And I was honest with her. I said that's not my forte. But let's have fun together, let's go on Google. We looked it up and what did we find? We found two sites, sort of like an Indeed ZipRecruiter-type site, specifically for voiceover, for medical narration. And she started in that rabbit hole and she went down. She said, "Oh, my goodness, that was like the simplest thing to do and I had already self-talked myself out of it before I even tried the most basic things." And she got into it and it was a casting site and da-da-da, da-da-da. And then that opened up her whole world to potential clients. 11:08 So why not go for a genre that you want to be going for and take new angles to how you find your information out? Don't go the same route you go every day. Try a new route. That's the feng shui of the soul, isn't it? They say if you drive to work this way, take a new route so that you can feel differently. If you drive to work, or you drive anywhere, take a new route. Well, this is the same thing. If I'm marketing and I tend to do the same thing all the time because I know it and I'm comfortable, go a different route. 11:37 - Anne (Host) And shameless plug, because medical is one of my specialties. There are ways that you've got to be seen by the people who can hire you, people who can hire you, and I do have a VO Boss Blast that has specific lists that can cater just for agencies and companies that work in healthcare and in pharmaceuticals. So there are lots of ways that can help and so just I'm throwing that out there. So if anybody's interested in medical and wants to find out how to market to them, I can absolutely chit-chat about you. 12:03 - Lau (Guest) And right, but I think the point is is like yes, you found a new way, Google. 12:08 - Anne (Host) I love Google, and I'll tell you what. I will be completely—a Chat GPT, sorry, Chat GPT, is a great answer of hey, tell me what's trending, but you have to have a professional version because it's now up to date or it can be as close up to date, so it's becoming a search engine. But Google is wonderful. 12:32 - Lau (Guest) Again, that's why they call me Anne Gang Google. You can Google anything. 12:33 - Anne (Host) I didn't know. They called you that. That's funny, Anne Gang Google, that's great. 12:35 - Lau (Guest) I love it. 12:35 - Anne (Host) So that's a wonderful thing. So, yeah, make sure that you educate yourself and stay informed. Don't stay in your little bubble, because that's going to help you. I mean, long ago, when I worked in technology, it was one of the things that you had to just be out there educating yourself on all different styles of technology, whether you like them or not, or thought they worked or not. It just was something. So it's always good to be more educated. So, so, absolutely, so important. That's the one thing that I have when you say to me, "Okay, Anne, when you've lost all hope, what do you have?" Well, I have my community. Lost all hope. What do you have? Well, I have my community, I have my family, I have love, and I have me, I have my intelligence and I have my desire to want to know more and to learn more, and that nobody can take away from me, right? 13:15 - Lau (Guest) And there's one more thing that's important, and I always bring this up. Mama always brings this up. You got to work your fanny off. Yes, because I'm tired of hearing people whining and complaining and being victims like, "I'm not getting anything and there's enough work." I'm like, no, you're not working hard enough, because there's plenty of work out there. You got to find it, you got to get it. You got to work at it, right, Annie? You have to go after it. They're not going to come after you. You have to go after it. 13:44 - Anne (Host) And the stories you tell yourself also. They're a big deal. "I can't, I just can't. I'm not, I'm not enough, or I'm not good enough, or I don't know where to look, or I can't." All that negative self-talk does not help you at all, believe it or not. I mean? 13:59 - Lau (Guest) And what if you are on Annie Gang Google's search site and you look up voiceover talent in your area or not? Either way is fine, and they are in your range. Maybe they're female, they're in a certain age range, and you look at them and you see what they're doing and you see who their clients are, because you can go right to their websites and you're going to go and you're going to go, "Oh, I want to do that, I want to work in that. I never would have sat here and thought that up on my own, but now I see this fabulous woman that I found somewhere in Texas is doing all the things that I want to do," and then you make a list of all the companies she's worked with, and then you create a fabulous letter for those companies. And then you look up all the email addresses at that company, and then you send that fabulous letter to that company. What are the chances that someone from that company may ping you back and say, "Hey, yeah, we kind of work with voiceover talent. Who are you?" 14:56 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. Well, and I know, marketing is never an easy task, guys. It just isn't, and again, remember. 15:03 Remember, there are multiple ways. How is marketing changing this year, right? And it's funny, because I did a lecture for a college class the other day and I said to them, "How do you like to communicate? If you were in voiceover today and you had a business, how would you like to find your potential clients? Or how would you communicate or reach out to your potential clients?" Not one of them. They said, "Well, we hate email, text." And I'm like, "Okay, that's fine for you and maybe everybody else. 15:28 Your age, however, you got to realize where are these potential clients? Some of them are older than you. Some of them have different methods of communication that they prefer. I mean, ultimately, in 20, 30 years, you'll all be the same age and you'll all—we'll all evolve to that method of communication. 15:43 But right now, if you're trying to get work in the corporate world and you're trying to get in with a company that has someone who might be, you know, in their 60s managing the company, they might prefer email. 15:56 They might prefer a method of communication that's not just text or pick up the phone are something that I think that every voice actor needs to understand and get on board with, that you are dealing with people in business who are very different. 16:15 There's lots of people that, yes, they do a lot of work via text, but a lot of people do work via groups, Microsoft Teams, Zoom meetings. There's so many ways. 16:25 Pick up the phone, talk to somebody, and, really, if you are uncomfortable with one method and you want to work in an area where you might be working with people from all different ages, all different styles, you need to get familiar with those methods and that, I think, is important again for you to stay afloat this year to be able to communicate with all different types of people, with all different styles of communication and hiring, really, and hiring methods, and so that is something that if you're not on board with, if you're like, "Nah, I don't want to email," or "I hate email and I think it's stupid," honestly, there's a bunch of people that still use email quite a bit, and especially now that maybe social media is kind of scattered everywhere. 17:12 Now it may not be as easy now on social media. Remember, we lost TikTok for less than 24 hours and the world panicked, right? All these people who had put all their eggs in one basket. So don't put all your eggs in the texting basket if you're young, right, as a means of communication or getting work, right? There's multiple ways that you can get work, multiple ways you can communicate and make your product known to people. 17:36 - Lau (Guest) That's great advice. It's so client-centered, which I love about it, and I think whole generations of people need to keep that aware of that. The mode of communication you need to keep open, whether it's a telephone, a text, an email, a DM. You need to keep that open and what your client or your rep is comfortable with is ultimately what you have to get comfortable with, and most agents do not want you texting them. They're going to work on email. 18:01 If you don't want to work on email, you're not going to be able to get reps. It's as simple as that, right? If you don't check your email. 18:07 - Anne (Host) You could lose out on jobs. If you don't check your voicemail, believe it or not. I mean, I have people that leave me voicemail still, and it's one of those things. I'm like, "We've gotten so much. We've been bombarded." Email, voicemail, text, and spam, right, because people are trying to get in touch with us, and so make sure you're checking your spam as well to make sure somebody hasn't reached out to you that wants a potential connection to maybe offer you a job, and not only that, but if you don't like email, you're really in trouble, because agents will expect you to answer within a reasonable amount of time, which is a matter of hours, not days, on email, so you can miss out on that job. 18:55 And you have to be adept at utilizing technology when you're submitting auditions. You have to make sure that you understand how to submit an audition. We've run our audition demolition multiple times. I'm running now a scholarship submission where people are like, "I don't know how to submit," and I'm like, "Well, you've got to read the instructions." So, guys, get yourself familiar with all different styles and ways of communicating and handling files and audio and that sort of thing. Now, Lau, we talked about first of all, like making sure that we're educated on different styles, on different trends. What do you think is going to be big this year? Is there a genre that's going to stand out? Are they all going to be similar to how they were last year? What do you think? 19:34 - Lau (Guest) That's a really good question. I think one of the things that I've seen more and more of as a commercial agent is I've seen more and more really fun and creative advertising campaigns that have come in the last, even in the last couple of years, that I would gather are going to come this year as well. Like, for instance, I've seen more animation. I've seen more of that character style come into the commercial world, which is really interesting because it's so oppositional to what we've been saying about be real, be relatable, be this, be that, which is predominantly, yes, still there, but we're also seeing these characters come in. 20:10 Like, if you notice, watch commercials, you'll see a lot of animals, tons and tons and tons and tons of animals. In commercials, the animals typically have personas of people, have personas of people, and whether they're speaking in their natural, everyday voice or whether they're doing a character sound, there's just a lot of it. There's more of it. So what's coming across my desk is just more character and more animation. Even in the pharmaceutical world, we're seeing a lot more exciting, dancey, musical animation, moving stuff, colorful stuff. 20:45 - Anne (Host) They're vying for our attention in the pharmaceutical. They're vying for our attention, so we want actors. 20:50 - Lau (Guest) I'll use that word, actors. We want actors that can shift from just a real, down-to-earth sound to playing that duck or playing that pigeon. 21:00 - Anne (Host) Well, I'm going to say, medically speaking, because medical is one of my favorite genres, is, I also feel like, because there are changes this year with administration and how they're dealing with healthcare funding—a lot of it—and so I think that healthcare companies, which have always been very traditionally corporate America, money-centric, I think, are going to be vying for our business, and so I do feel like there's going to be a lot of competition between hospitals and medical products that are looking to get us as consumers to buy into it, because their funding might be less than it was and I think for a while it's going to make them compete more with each other to get the business and the money that they are used to having. Where they might have gotten some money in funding before, now they might, who knows? I'm not even going to speculate about prices, but I feel like, because it's going to be more competitive, it might work to our advantage for a little bit. It may not be regulated. I mean, I would hope it's somewhat regulated, but as a breast cancer survivor, I will say that I don't love the fact that it's been defunded or that kind of a thing. 22:08 I feel like certain things are important to be funded in this, but without getting political, but just know that, right, I happen to know that is one of the things that I have been hearing, so I'm like, "Okay, so how is that going to affect those companies that ultimately relied on that funding to operate?" 22:25 Right, are they going to now transition into healthcare and so maybe there'll be more demand in hospitals, right, so hospitals can get that money easier? So now maybe the context and the content of what we're going to be talking about will be slightly different or more centric on hospitals versus organizations, slightly different or more centric on hospitals versus organizations. So that's just something to be aware of and to know. And, again, like I say, I try to remain a little bit neutral on it because, again, if you want to work in those genres and you want to work for a company that is going to be in America in the next years, right, figure out how things are changing for them and then figure out how your voice and how their voice brand is going to change and then evolve with that or not. Choose to not evolve with that if you don't agree with it, yeah, and I don't know. 23:11 - Lau (Guest) I can't really predict, Annie, what's going to happen in the pharmaceutical market, because that's a really, really moving and shaking industry right now and everything is being shaken up with that. But there was a time that I remember that it was not legal to advertise on TV pharmaceutical products. 23:27 I remember that when that came in, that that was passed, that it was legal. Suddenly, we saw 24/7 advertising of pharmaceuticals, which is a very controversial issue for many people, but I'm just going to speak on the side of our industry and talent. It was a virtual candy land. It was a Disneyland of opportunities for both actors and voice talent that they were and still are auditioning for pharmaceuticals all the time. Will that change? I don't know. It could. 23:55 - Anne (Host) And will there be more? I mean, in the pharmaceutical side, yes, the commercial aspect of things, that corporate side, but there's also the educational side, right? Again. How is that going to evolve? How is that going to change? And so, keep your eyes open. That's I think my best advice would be for talent, to keep your eyes open and to really be as educated as you can, without suffering consequences of maybe getting too much division or toxicity from your news source or your social media, wherever you get that from, but make sure that you're educated and I think that, honestly, if you can again prove to yourself. It's like when the pandemic hit, right? How did we evolve as businesses? Here we are with another large kind of transition or, you know, maybe change that might be happening that can affect our industry. How can you, as a business, evolve along with that? 24:46 And I think you'll be fine. I mean, I really believe there's still a necessity. Nobody's saying that voiceover is illegal. 24:53 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I'm just going to say it like voiceover is not illegal, so therefore the opportunities are endless, right? 25:00 - Anne (Host) Just if you step back and kind of look at the humorous part of it. It's not illegal to do voiceover, right? So guess what, the opportunities are what we make of them, right? We can create as many opportunities as we want, right? Again, it's up to us. We are the entrepreneurs, we are the creators of our businesses and of our destiny. I can't lose hope in that. 25:21 - Lau (Guest) And, of course, we're always going to need human beings. We're always going to need human voices. It may shift and pivot in different directions, but the industry does that anyway. It really has done that the whole way through. And I want to throw in one more before we wrap, Annie, I want to talk about self-producing. I think it's very important that people feel empowered to self-produce their own work. Like maybe you say, "I always wanted to do this. I haven't gotten hired." Well, produce your own, write a script, create it, clean it up, throw some music in, put it on YouTube, put it on your channel, make it known that you want to do this work by doing the work, right? That's the power of a demo. The demo is demonstrating the kind of work that you want to do. 26:05 - Anne (Host) But I am going to say, as a demo producer, Lau, that again, you've got to be careful, you've got to be really careful. I mean, yes, you can create samples, you have to be careful. 26:13 - Lau (Guest) But I'm not saying to create a full demo. I'm saying if I want to do animation and I have no work under my belt and no one's going to be looking at me, I want to say, "Hey, I want to do a 15-second spot," and produce that and see what that's like. 26:28 - Anne (Host) But make sure that you have the license for the music, make sure that everything is legal on that end of things, because, again, there's a lot of DIY going on in the animation world and there's a lot of again. Remember, what you do speaks volumes. Yes, right, and yes, DIY is great for education, absolutely. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and I think you can learn a lot by doing that and, as a matter of fact, it's probably a great way to get to know better what you want. Ultimately, when you have the money to invest in a professionally produced sample or demo. 27:06 - Lau (Guest) So if you do it yourself, you know what's involved in it. Yes, and that is so great that you brought that up, because I'm seeing so many talent getting into audiobooks, which is fantastic because it's such a wonderful world, but I see so many talent getting out of audiobooks because, guess what? They're doing it and many of them don't want to do it and they don't realize they don't want to do it until they do it, until they do it. And then others do it and they say, "I have fallen in love, this is it. I didn't even know how wonderful this is." Absolutely, and this is really my calling. So the point is, I think what I'm trying to say is, of course, work under qualified coaches, work with demo teams. Of course, what I'm saying is dabble your toes in water of doing the work to see how you feel about it. 27:47 You know, the idea is different than the reality. 27:50 - Anne (Host) Agreed, agreed, and I don't think there's anything wrong with a DIY that educates you. Yeah, really, always, because, like I always try to learn from when I create videos, I'm trying to learn my video editing software. Does it mean that I'm a video editor for reals? Right, I mean, but I want to be able to know the steps and what's required so that I can direct somebody else that can maybe do it for me, right? 28:11 - Lau (Guest) So yeah, there it is. There it is. There's a plethora of actions you can take and go with the trends and pay attention and see what your competition is doing and see where it leads, but also create your own path. 28:23 - Anne (Host) Pioneer your own way. 28:25 - Lau (Guest) That's the best entrepreneur, isn't it? 28:28 - Anne (Host) The future is bright and I'll tell you what, I'm excited. And again, I am excited for evolving, I'm excited for changing if I need to, and I'm excited to see. I mean, honestly, you have to embrace the change. You have to embrace evolving along with change and allow it to be something that ignites you and excites you. And I have all sorts of positive thoughts about this year and for you guys, for bosses out there, positive thoughts. Absolutely. All right. Thumbs up, big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too, can connect, network like bosses, and move your businesses forward. Find out more at IPDTL.com. You guys have an amazing week. Lau, thank you so much. We'll see you next week, guys, see you next time. 29:13 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere dive into the essential digital toolkit for today's voiceover professionals. Their lively conversation spotlights practical solutions for safeguarding valuable audio, effortlessly showcasing your work, and leveraging the power of AI to streamline your workflow. They unveil their go-to platforms for reliable cloud backups, easy video conversion for portfolio building, and AI assistants that can help with everything from crafting professional communications to generating content ideas. By sharing their tried-and-true tech arsenal, Anne and Tom empower voice actors to work smarter, not harder, and confidently navigate the ever-evolving digital landscape of the voiceover industry. 00:02 - Anne (Host) Hey, if you're looking to take your podcast to the next level, my podcast consultation coaching services teach you how to sound more authentic, develop smart strategies, and market your show effectively. Let's elevate your podcast together. Visit anneganguzza.com to get started. 00:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level: the BOSS level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like1 a BOSS—a VO BOSS. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.2 00:42 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Real BOSS Series. I'm here, Anne Ganguzza, with my good friend, Mr. Tom Dheere. Hello, Tom Dheere, how are you today? 00:53 - Tom (Guest) I am good. Anne Ganguzza, how are you? 00:56 - Anne (Host) I am relieved. 00:58 - Tom (Guest) Relieved? Want to know why? Yes, why? 01:01 - Anne (Host) Well, I had a scare this week where I all of a sudden went to go access one of my audio files to send to my client, and it said, "No, there's no drive." And I went, "Oh my God, I lost my drive!" And that's one of those things—I don't know if you're on an Apple Mac or any kind of computer—when all of a sudden the drive doesn't show up, you're like, "Oh my God, let me unplug it, let me replug it, let me unplug it, replug it," and you wait to hear it spin up. And back in the day, when I used to work in technology, it was a thing. Like your backup plan had to be solid because you could not lose any data, and it used to be very complex where you would have RAID systems and you would have dual backup systems, and you'd pay a lot of money to have systems backing up to other things. And I'll tell you what I got. 01:45 So, paranoid, I unplugged my drive, plugged it back in. Nothing. Same thing, did it multiple times, unplugged it from the cord, I rebooted my computer. Nothing happened. But I'll tell you, I was saved by my favorite tool in the world, which is called Backblaze, which backs up all of my data onto a cloud, and I was able to restore the data that I needed to send to my client to another external drive that I have and do it within the next couple hours. It was actually a few terabytes, right, because my drive... I put everything, Tom, and I think we can talk about this—I have, since I worked in technology, I put everything that's important on an external drive, and that drive gets backed up multiple times. And that way I don't ever have to worry about like, "Oh gosh, if I need to update my..." I never put anything important on my main computer drive, always on an external drive that gets backed up. 02:36 - Tom (Guest) Because it's easy. I think this leads into an extremely important lesson that we could just start right off with. For all you BOSSES out there: do not be 100% cloud-dependent with your data, and do not be 100% external hard drive or internal hard drive-dependent with your data. But back them up, back them up. 02:54 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Make sure that they are backing each other up. 02:57 - Tom (Guest) What I have is I have Norton 360, which is generally... Norton is known for its antivirus software, and Norton 360 does that. But what it also does is it backs up my hard drive every single day up to one terabyte. And, like you, I have very little actual data on the hard drive of my desktop computer itself. I also use Google Drive's Google Workspace. 03:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) If you have a Gmail account or a Gmail address. 03:23 - Anne (Host) Same thing. Yep, you can use Dropbox as well. 03:25 - Tom (Guest) Yep, you can use Dropbox as well. 03:27 You can use OneDrive, you could use Box, you could use CrashPlan, you could use Carbonite. I used to use Carbonite for a very long time, and I was very happy with it, and then I realized I had Carbonite, Box, Dropbox, OneDrive, and Google Drive, and I realized it was so redundant. So my primary cloud-based data storage is a combination of Google Drive with Google Workspace and Norton 360, and I also have an external hard drive which I will actually occasionally hook up and physically back everything up and put it away. So I've got like three—two cloud-based and one drive external hard drive-based—home base for all of my data, in case something bad happens with one or, heaven forbid, two of them. 04:17 - Anne (Host) It's been a lifesaver, I'll tell you what. So Backblaze—just my favorite. By the way, I'm an affiliate, guys. I'm going to put a link for you. What I love about Backblaze is that basically, you just set it to work and it works seamlessly in the background. It will always... it backs up every minute of the day. It backs up, and it doesn't take a lot of resources on your system. So every time you create a file, it's just going to be backing it up to the cloud, and then you just... it's really simple. You go to your account on the cloud and you restore it, and it basically just keeps the most current backup. 04:45 You can keep different versions of backups. If you have version one of a file, version two of a file, you can keep all the versions of your backups for up to a year. It just really depends, and it is super reasonable. I think I pay $99 a year. So I use that in combination with Dropbox. I have like three terabytes for Dropbox, and I keep all my student data on that, and that way I can share my drive with my clients and my students, and that is my Dropbox, which is always backed up, so I don't have to worry about that data either. So I use the combination, and I also have a Google Drive. So those are my cloud-based: Dropbox and Google, and then my Backblaze, which is my backup for all my drives that I have on my computer, and I only put important stuff on my external drives. That way if I need to update my operating system, I don't have to worry about restoring all the other data onto that main drive on my computer. 05:36 And you can... even with Backblaze, you can order, like I had, a four-terabyte drive or a five-terabyte drive. If the entire drive goes—which drives do, I mean, they have a lifespan—you can actually just order a replacement drive, and it ships out within two to three days. It's an encrypted drive that you can actually just plug in via USB, and then ultimately you have that mirrored drive so that you don't have to restore the data through the cloud, because sometimes if you do have five terabytes of data—let's say if you have video—it could take an awfully long time to restore through the online version, and so you can just order a drive, and I've done that two times. So that's one of my favorite tools, Tom. So what are some of your other favorite tools that you have to run your business? 06:18 - Tom (Guest) Like I said, I do use Google Drive regularly. If you have a Gmail account, I think you already get 15 gigs of storage space, but with Google Workspace, you get two terabytes for like $15 a month, and I also use it to synchronize my email. Actually, that's really exciting—the ability to synchronize my email in Gmail with my phone, my desktop, my laptop, and my tablet, so I can access my emails anytime I want. But other tools that I've really been enjoying lately: this is something that comes up a lot. Voice actors of all parts of their journey desperately want to get their hands on the finished product, which is, most of the time, the finished video of a voiceover that they did, most of the time commercials or explainer videos or things like that. 07:07 So I have a two-pronged system. Number one, I go to YouTube once a month. I'm on YouTube every day, who am I kidding? But I mean, for this exercise, I go to YouTube, and I have a list of all the voiceover jobs that I did in the previous quarter or previous month, and I look at all the front-facing stuff, all of the commercials and explainers, the things that would be normally exposed to the public—not like the e-learning modules and the internal corporate stuff—stuff that has been published publicly. 07:34 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Published publicly, exactly. 07:34 - Tom (Guest) And then what I'll do is I'll find all of them, find the ones that I can. I will save them to a playlist in YouTube, and I have a playlist for every genre of voiceover that... 07:46 - Anne (Host) I've done. Yeah, me too. 07:46 - Tom (Guest) But this is where the tool comes in. I download the YouTube video. There is a specific software that I use called Any Video Converter. We'll put the link down there. It's absolutely free. I think it's just anyvideoconverter.com. And then you download that free software, and all you do is paste the YouTube link in, and then it says, "Do you want audio only, video only, or audio and video?" You download it, and it downloads it to your computer, and then you can save it. And this is why this is really important. It's important for two reasons. Number one, a lot of us want to use professional samples of stuff that we've done to add to our demos. Yes, and we want to use it to add to our online casting site profiles, our sample lists and playlists on Voice123 and other places. But here's the other thing: YouTube videos don't necessarily stay there forever. 08:45 - Anne (Host) They're not necessarily evergreen. 08:47 - Tom (Guest) I have had multiple videos over the years where I went to go look at it, and it was gone. 08:52 Or it was linked to my website, tomdheere.com, and the video was just not there. There's just gray static, or "this video is no longer there." So what you can do is that if you keep that video by downloading it using Any Video Converter or any software of your choice, you can then upload it back to your website, right, or maybe even upload it back onto YouTube and continue to have it as part of your portfolio. 09:15 - Anne (Host) I just want to make sure that it's noted that you have permission and that it's public-facing to begin with. So make sure that it's public-facing. Sometimes, if you don't have permission from the company, it's always nice. I mean, I always, as part of my, "Thank you so much, it's been wonderful working with you," I always say, "If you have a link to the final video, I would really appreciate it. I'd love to see the final product. It was so great working with you." But a lot of times people are busy, and that doesn't happen. 09:40 And so, yeah, if it ultimately shows up on a YouTube, then ultimately it's public-facing. 09:45 And then I am assuming that it's public-facing, it's public property, and that I can take that Any Video Converter and download it. And, yeah, now you own it; you can put it back up on YouTube if you want. It's a video that's not going to disappear all of a sudden off your website if you happen to embed it. But yeah, that's a great tool, and it's wonderful to be able to show not only your demos but work that you've done, and you want that work to exist. So, yeah, that's a great. 10:08 I love that, Tom, because you actually go and actively seek it out, because sometimes I lose track of the jobs that I do, and then it's like, "Oh darn, I wish I had that job to showcase, right? Here's an example of what my voice sounds like in this particular job," or "here on this website." And I used to actually post the link or embed the YouTube link from their site onto my website, but, you're right, it disappeared from mine after a while. Sometimes people just don't keep those videos up on their YouTube, so having it for your own is a wonderful, wonderful tool, and that Any Video Converter, yeah. 10:42 - Tom (Guest) Definitely, and that task is on my monthly action plan. 10:46 - Anne (Host) It is one of the things that... 10:47 - Tom (Guest) I do every single month. It's in the tools section of my monthly action plan: "Download new YouTube videos and save to playlists." 10:54 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Wow. 10:55 - Tom (Guest) This also applies to Vimeo as well, so you could also look around, because there are some clients that prefer Vimeo over YouTube, which—it's a great platform. I love Vimeo, but YouTube just has so much more SEO clout. Well... 11:06 - Anne (Host) I love Vimeo because I use Vimeo. I have a Vimeo account as well as YouTube, but I have a Vimeo account because if you want to password protect, you can do that on Vimeo. So that helps me when I do my VO Peeps events, and people are requiring access to the videos. I password protect them. 11:23 - Tom (Guest) Well, I'll bounce the ball back to you, Anne: what is another tool that you enjoy using? 11:27 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, there are so many. Let's see. I'm going to say I'm going to go the AI route, and I'm going to say I have a couple of AI tools that really, really help me in crafting emails to my clients that are super fast and efficient. And they help me just... First of all, I have a professional version of ChatGPT, which I think is well worth the 20 bucks a month, and I also have CopyAI, which I pay for on a yearly basis. It uses ChatGPT, but it also has different features kind of built in. So, depending on what I want to do, it has a little more marketing aspect to it, so it can create more marketing funnels for me. If I want ChatGPT, I can ask it just about anything. But again, both of them are the premium versions, and I use it for—gosh, I use it for anything. 12:09 Sometimes I'll just ask questions and I'll say, "Hey, craft an email response to my client that includes the following points," or I'll have started a particular email, and I'm like, "You know, I just don't have the time to word this professionally." So let me cut and paste it, and I'll say, "Just reword this professionally and in my voice." So you can train your little ChatGPT AI bot to have your voice in it. And so I use it constantly for crafting professional emails and basically doing a lot of web writing that I might have to do. If I want to craft my bio, I need to create a nice bulleted course list here and that sort of thing. I'll say, "Go to this webpage and tell me what are the major points, what are the summary points of this particular course that I can then utilize." So it's just training your robot, like training your dragon, is really a wonderful thing. 12:58 - Tom (Guest) Cool. Well, I also have two favorite AI tools, both of which are parallel to the ones that you just recommended. You're a paid user for ChatGPT. I am a Gemini fan myself. Gemini is the Google-powered version of OpenAI's ChatGPT. You do need to pay for it, but if you have a Google Workspace account, like I just talked about a few minutes ago, that I use to get more drive space and synchronize all of my emails and all of my devices, you also get access to Gemini. I've been using it very heavily for the past three, four months or so. And what do you use it for? What sorts of things? I use it professionally and personally. I ask it all kinds of questions, looking for statistics or data, potential voiceover leads. And what happened was, a few months ago, I'm here in New York City. I was invited by a Google Wix co-production talking about Google Gemini and then how to use Google Gemini to write blogs in Wix—not necessarily write them for you, but like to just kind of help you come up with ideas. 14:08 Spark ideas, maybe give you some outlines, and then you can put your own creative flair and writing style in it. I will give a quick AI prompt tip. Two things. Number one, always tell your AI who they are before you ask the question. So like, if you have a question about social media, you always say, "You are a social media expert." Then you ask the question. I don't pretend to understand how any of this works, but I do know that if you kind of put them in the, for lack of a better term, "frame of mind," it will give you more accurate answers. 14:43 - Anne (Host) Give me a more professional answer, give me a friendlier, give me more conversational. Yeah, you can absolutely, and... 14:50 - Tom (Guest) Oh, I refine them constantly. What's nice about Gemini is on the left side, it has a link to every single conversation that I've had, and I refer back to them regularly. The other tip is always say please and thank you. For some weird reason, they have noticed that—and this may be a little scary—that the nicer you are when you're asking questions, the better quality you're going to get. I know that's a little creepy. 15:15 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, you don't want to be angry. I mean, a lot of times people are like, "No, that's the wrong, you stupid idiot." You know what I mean. You should not talk to Alexa that way either, by the way. Just saying. 15:24 - Tom (Guest) Right, no, you don't want to do that either. 15:25 - Anne (Host) No, because you want them to treat you right. 15:57 - Tom (Guest) I believe there are different tiers, like there are with a lot of these programs. I just started my affiliate partnership with them, so I'm exploring all the wonderful things that it can do, but Warmy.io—that's my other favorite AI tool. Wow. 16:07 - Anne (Host) I've got one more. 16:08 - Tom (Guest) I've got one more that I use, and that's Podium. For a long time... 16:11 - Anne (Host) I've used Podium for a good year or two now, I think. Podium takes my VO BOSS podcasts and it crafts out my notes, it crafts out my show notes, it crafts out takeaways, and I found that that works the best. I mean, I can put anything into ChatGPT, but the cool thing about Podium is I can feed it an MP3. So I can take a final MP3 of my episode and I can say, "Craft out 10 takeaways from this." And ultimately I do have to go through everything. I think it's always advisable, no matter what. 16:39 If you're working with AI, you always have to go through it. You always need the human touch, right? You need to like... sometimes it'll come up with some weird things, but for the most part, it does the best summaries, and it's the only one that I have that will take an MP3 or a video and transcribe it, and then it can create a blog out of it as well, which is super powerful, because once you can get from there to the blog, then you can tweak the blog. So it really has done a lot to help me. And so that's Podium, and yes, I'm an affiliate of Podium too. 17:08 So, guys, BOSSES out there, if you find tools that you like, you can always create a little affiliate membership with that, because, I mean, even if it's a few cents a month, it's a few cents a month, and I have people who follow me that I don't steer them wrong. I'm not going to be an affiliate of a product that I don't love and that I wouldn't recommend. And so that's the way I really feel that I've gotten people who follow me that trust my recommendations and these tools that Tom and I love. I mean, we recommend them wholeheartedly. It's not something because affiliate memberships don't, I don't think, make you enough money to... you know. I mean, I'm not just going to sign up for everything and become an affiliate. 17:42 It's only going to be the stuff that I absolutely love and the stuff that I'm going to talk about. And I actually got a little key fob the other day so that people can scan the key fob, and I can become an affiliate of that, so that they can scan the key fob and go get all my contact information, go to every website that I have, and it's really a lot of fun, and I'll be testing that out at VO Atlanta, so that's going to be really cool too. So all these tools that Tom and I are talking about are stuff that we've tested and stuff that we recommend. And so, BOSSES, that's another part of your income journey really, is thinking about products you love and maybe thinking about becoming affiliates of them. Any other tools, Tom, and I've got one more that I'm going to talk about that I love. 18:21 - Tom (Guest) It's funny because I wanted to... 18:23 - Anne (Host) It might be the same one. 18:23 - Tom (Guest) Well, I wanted to say that we are recording this right now using a fabulous tool called Riverside. Yes, and I've been guest hosting on the VO BOSS for a couple of years now, and she's been using Riverside, and I think it's a fantastic program. The one that I use when I have guests, when I am doing recorded video chats, is I use StreamYard. 18:43 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) They're both very similar. 18:44 - Tom (Guest) They have their own sets of bells and whistles. Both of them are fantastic. So if you're looking to start a podcast or if you just want to record conversations, Riverside or StreamYard—both of them are fantastic. 18:55 - Anne (Host) And here's one that I think we both have in common, Tom, I know that you use it, and it is... it is my graphic wonder, Canva. 19:03 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Ah, Canva! I love Canva. 19:04 - Anne (Host) Canva changed the game, I'll tell you what. And I'm not saying that I'm a graphic artist, because nothing would ever replace my web designer, because my web designer is an amazing graphic artist. There's something about being able to see and visualize graphics and where they go and putting them together and making them look good. But if you're just a beginner and you need to do a few social media graphics, you need to do certain things like remove a background. You cannot go wrong with Canva. I've been using Canva for years. It is an absolute favorite tool of mine. 19:33 - Tom (Guest) I use it constantly. I mean, for those of you who have watched any of my how-to videos or have been in a workshop with me where I'm doing a presentation, I use Canva, I'm pretty sure. 19:43 - Anne (Host) Anne, you also have the... 19:44 - Anne (Host) Canva Pro. You have the paid version, Canva Pro. I do. 19:48 - Tom (Guest) So do I. I mean, it's got so many functions. You'd be shocked at the amount of things that it can make. I mean, I primarily use it for my how-to videos and presentations, but I also use it for making thumbnails for my YouTube videos. 20:01 - Anne (Host) Social media graphics. 20:03 - Tom (Guest) Yep, it's got a great library of content, and you can upload all of your content as well. 20:07 - Anne (Host) And also, I'm going to give myself one other plug. 20:09 - Tom (Guest) I'm going to give myself one other plug. There are a bunch of apps that you can have called up on the left side of your Canva. There is one which is to add an AI voice to your presentations, and one of my AI voices is one of those voices. So, yes, you could actually click on that. You could have me voicing your content. 20:27 - Anne (Host) Tom, I'm going to add you to my next presentation. I'm going to add Tom Dheere voice to my next presentation. But that's awesome. I love Canva and the Canva Pro. And remember, Tom, back in the day when you were creating, let's say, a website or a social media graphic and you would subscribe to these places where you could buy the rights to the graphics? Because you need to be legal about these things. You can't just be stealing graphics and downloading graphics. Canva has a great—and the Canva Pro version has a great—amount of graphics that you can use that are built within it and licensed. So you don't have to pay for another tool to get your graphics. So you can get professional graphics. If you need, like a studio graphic to put in the background of one of your social media posts, you can download it from Canva, and the license is there, and you're clear. 21:13 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, what's very interesting is that you can just run searches in their library to find graphics and stuff like that. And then, if you have the Canva Pro account—I don't know if you've noticed this, Anne—is when you click on stuff and you use it, it'll say, "You just saved this amount of money." 21:27 - Anne (Host) Oh, yeah, right. 21:28 - Tom (Guest) Right, because if you didn't have a Canva Pro account, you would have had to pay à la carte for all of these graphics, but as part of the Canva annual fee, you can get access to all of those graphics for free, and you are using them legally and lawfully. 21:40 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love knowing that I'm using them legally and lawfully, because that used to be a worry for me. I mean, I used to be like, "Oh my God," and each graphic I would pay. Even sometimes I'd go to those websites. I think I had an Envato Elements account that, you know, I could go and get the graphics and use those for my social media. And it's just nice because it's built into Canva already, and everything that you use these days has AI built into it. 22:04 Guys, there's really not much that I think you're going to be using tool-wise that isn't going to have some sort of AI built into it. So, again, it's one of those things where I know we need to be careful of it for our voices, and we need to make sure that we're getting compensated. Make sure that any tool that you're using that has AI built into it, that you're within the confines of your own ethical thoughts and what you think is right and fair compensation. And, Tom, you're getting paid for that voice that you have in the middle of Canva, so that's good. And so tools that are ethically sourced, right, that are using AI, I think it's just going to be so embedded into a lot of our tools these days that we're not even going to notice anymore, and it's going to be like... you know, I always tell people with Voice over IP, back in the day I used to install Voice over IP phone systems, and people were like, "Oh no, it'll never work." 22:52 But honestly, that's all we use these days. There's not one phone call you make that isn't going over an internet or a network, a data line, and there are no more POTS lines that are installed. Back in the day, they were Plain Old Telephone POTS lines, P-O-T-S. And so nowadays, all of your communication goes over data lines, and that is Voice over IP. Really, same thing with AI. It's going to be embedded in just about everything that we do. So just be careful and be thoughtful. But these tools are something that I can't live without now. I mean, really. 23:23 - Tom (Guest) Me too. I don't know where I'd be without Canva and all the tools we just talked about today. 23:27 - Anne (Host) I don't know where I would be without my Alexa telling me how many ounces are in a tablespoon or how many... you know, when I need to do some simple conversion. I mean, we're talking like everyday life. So yeah, these are just some of our favorite tools. Tom, I'd love to do another episode in a few months from now to see if we've come up with any other favorite tools. 23:44 But I love sharing tech, geeky gadgets, because you're kind of a tech girl. I think we've come up with a really great list, and, guys, we'll list all of that in the show notes for you today. And thank you so much, Tom, for yet another wonderful, enlightening episode. 23:59 - Tom (Guest) Thank you, always glad to be here. 24:01 - Anne (Host) Big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL, which I use every single day, by the way, guys. IPDTL, I use for all of my student communications. I love it. It's wonderful, people can record, it's super easy, and you can find out more at IPDTL.com. Guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. 24:21 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry-revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a3 BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via4 IPDTL.

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and George the Tech unveil a powerful collaboration designed to equip voiceover professionals with essential technical prowess. Their discussion highlights the evolution of VO BOSS to include comprehensive tech support, recognizing that pristine audio and a smoothly running studio are fundamental pillars of your voiceover business success. They introduce the new VIP + Tech membership tiers, which offer direct access to George's expertise through monthly meetups, personalized sound checks, and an innovative AI-powered knowledge base, the "George the Tech Bot." By democratizing access to top-tier technical guidance, Anne and George empower voice actors to overcome studio hurdles, optimize their sound, and ultimately elevate their professional presence, ensuring they can confidently navigate the technical landscape of the voiceover industry.   00:04 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne from VOBOSS here. 00:06 - George (Guest) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VOBOSS VIP membership, now with even more benefits. 00:13 - Anne (Host) So not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP plus tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself. Enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself. 00:27 - George (Guest) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best: voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you. 00:35 - Anne (Host) Join us, guys, at VO Boss and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit VOBOSS.com/VIP-membership to sign up today. 00:46 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent1 today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now2 let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 01:10 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited today to have one of my favorite human beings on the planet here with me, and that is George the Tech, George Whittam. George, thank you so much for being with us today. 01:23 - George (Guest) Oh, it's great to be here. It must be the East Coast vibes or something, you know. We're from the same sort of corner of the country. 01:30 - Anne (Host) I think so. I think so. Gosh, bosses, if you are not familiar with George, you should be, number one. I'm so excited to talk to George today because we have come together in a collaborative effort, so to speak, and we're excited to kind of talk about that and talk about how you can boss up your tech and your audio in your studio and in your business. So, for those people that don't know George, gosh, since 2005, George has dedicated, and in George's bio it says that you've dedicated your career to serving the technical needs of voice actors, podcasters, and recording studio owners. 02:08 Guys, actually, George has dedicated probably his life, not just his career. I mean, since I've been in voiceover, George has helped me umpteen billion times, and he has been the audio engineer technician to the stars, to all of my voiceover heroes. And literally, if you've got a tech issue, George can solve it. And so I'm just excited that he's here to talk to us about things that we can do to boss up our studios and boss up our audio. And in 2017, you launched georgethetech.com, which expanded your business like a boss, from just yourself to an entire team of people which can assist anybody with training, studio design, audio processing, stacks—anything you can think about it. You're a '97 graduate from Virginia Tech, woo-hoo, East Coast, with a bachelor's degree in music and audio technology and a minor in communications, and that's pretty darn awesome, because not only are you a geek, but you can talk to people about it. 03:15 - George (Guest) I can communicate, that's right, that's right. 03:18 - Anne (Host) And gosh, if you haven't ever heard of... well, it was E-Webs and then it was VOBS, the voiceover body shop, George and Dan Leonard. For 13 years now, I've had a podcast for gosh, going on nine now, but 13 years they ran their podcast and video. Actually, what did we call it back then? 03:39 - George (Guest) It was a podcast, but it was a vlog, podcast, live stream, live stream. Yeah, it was all of it. 03:45 - Anne (Host) But all of that amazing content is still on YouTube. And now you are the co-host and producer of the Pro Audio Suite, which is wherever your favorite podcasts are located, right next to VO Boss. So after that long-winded introduction, George, I am so glad to have you. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. 04:10 - George (Guest) Absolutely, and believe it or don't, that was definitely the abridged version. There are very, very long-winded versions of that that I've described on many podcasts if you want to hear more about all of the background. 04:24 - Anne (Host) But yeah, it's just so much. 04:26 - George (Guest) I mean, yeah, you're my people. Voice actors are my people. I love working with creative talent, and I have found that, through a test that I took not so long ago, that I'm exactly split left and right brain. 04:37 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, I'm right down the center. That's why we get along, I'm quite sure, because I feel that I'm left and right brain too, 50-50. 04:44 - George (Guest) Yeah, yeah, so there's this ability to balance those two worlds, and you know, we brand ourselves as performer-friendly techs because we feel we get actors and performers and that we're not here to talk directly to tech engineers. We have helped engineers solve problems, but that's not our main tribe. Our main tribe are creatives, actors, podcasters—well, creators, people that have to deal with technology to do what they do, and we just enjoy working with folks like that. You are our people. 05:18 - Anne (Host) Well, I like being your people. So, George, let's talk a little bit about your business right now, George the Tech, and what it is that you do. And I mean, obviously you serve the voice acting community, but you also serve anybody that has an audio need or a tech need. Tell us a little bit about your business. 05:38 - George (Guest) Yeah, George the Tech is framed around supporting voice actors, and now we've added into that tribe. We've brought in the tent to now really include content creators and podcasters, because we've been dealing with more and more podcast-specific studios. But how we do that is in many different ways, from one-on-one consulting time with me, which is really kind of like—I wouldn't say the first place to start, because it's the most expensive to work with me one-on-one, but because it's going to be always the most expensive to work with the CEO—we have a tremendous number of services at much more friendly price points, down to the most popular and, I would say, best value bang for your buck service, which is called a soundcheck. And so soundchecks are where we listen to the audio. Oh, really, me? I'm still hoarding all the soundchecks. 06:29 I don't let anybody else do the soundchecks. I personally listen to every sample that comes in and I give notes. I'll look at your pictures of your studio. I'll even look at a video of how your room is set up. I want to see you at your microphone. I want a selfie of you at the mic so I know exactly what you're doing with your mic, and I evaluate all of that stuff with you. There we go. Selfies! Need a selfie on the mic, it's really important. Selfie on the mic. 06:53 And I don't mean a selfie like cheesing at the camera like this. I mean, I want you to be on mic and I want you to send me a picture of you at the mic in the position you read your scripts. It's so critical, and I'll look at all that. I'll listen to the audio, and I'll even listen to your processed audio if you do that in the production workflow as well. I'll take all of that and give back my notes about how you're doing and what could be improved, and if everything's great, I'll tell you everything's great, and all that under one price. Great, I'll tell you everything is great, and all that under one price. So that is now something that our members that we're going to talk about are going to get access to, among many other things. So we provide sound checks, and then from there we have more technical services like processing presets. So when you're doing an audition and you want that audio to sound a little more polished, it's the perfect nail polish, it's the French tip, it's just the right smoky eyes. 07:48 - Anne (Host) Now you're talking my language there, George, I love it. Oh my gosh, I must have it now. 07:56 - George (Guest) It's having just the right touch of all those things for the kind of work that you're doing. That's appropriate for the kind of work you're doing. I like to say you don't want to show up in theater makeup for your first date unless you're dating another theater actor. 08:10 But otherwise, you want to show up appropriately, and so these processing settings are very much custom to your voice. They're not cookie cutter, they're not templates. They become a template you can use, but of those templates to your voice, the sound of your room and your studio, and the style and genre of voiceover that you're actually working. So the kind of processing I'll do in an audiobook is going to be very different from the processing I'm going to do on a commercial. So that's what the processing presets are all about. 08:44 - Anne (Host) I love that. I'm going to add to your story here. So back in, I'm going to say 2010, maybe it was, maybe it was 2009. George, my father had built me a studio. I had moved to the West Coast and my father had built me a studio, and at the time we didn't really know anything about what was required in building a good sound studio. So we did what we could and it was passable. But I needed to upgrade and I needed it to sound better, and so I found George, and George paid a visit to me back in Irvine, California, and really helped me to level up my studio with a lot of things. And I ended up after your assessment, and we took your advice and we put everything together, literally. I had engineers that were like, they were like, "Oh my God, your studio sound is just amazing," and I had so many compliments on that studio, which basically was my father's studio. But then it was blessed by George and enhanced by George, it was juiced. 09:47 - George (Guest) It was juiced. 09:48 - Anne (Host) With, like you did, the French tip. So it's like we added acoustic panels, we added a bunch of things. We had, I remember, the studio clouds, and so all those things made my sound so good that I for years after that would have people complimenting me, asking me if I had like a studio brick studio or—because this was before—asking me if I had like a Studio Bricks studio or because this was before. 10:07 - George (Guest) Some fancy brand name. 10:08 - Anne (Host) Yeah, this was actually before those were even a thing. 10:12 And not only did you help me with my physical studio, but you helped me with stacks, and I remember I think I wrote you a testimonial back in the day, like you saved me like 50% of my editing time just by those stacks that you created for me, because I was able to take those and process my audio that I was sending to my clients and literally half of my work was done for me already, like a little bit of EQ, some compression, getting rid of some of the breaths, and that was back in 2010. 10:41 And so literally, George, I still have—like, I have a new studio and I got one more set from you, but literally I used those for years. I was in the same studio, had the same mic, and honestly, like they just worked amazingly well for years. And so they're very, very valuable, those sound checks and the stacks that you created and any sort of help. And it amazed me because, even though you came to see me in Irvine, when I then moved and then created a new studio, you could do everything remotely. I mean, what you can do remotely is really wonderful, like you can listen to somebody's audio and then you can make recommendations based on that. And you said you want selfies of "where's your mic, what does your studio look like," and so, based upon all that, you can actually just do consulting from remote. 11:28 You don't have to actually be on site, although you could be if it was local, right? And I guess, if the client wanted you to just come and do a full-scale like build of studios... yeah, once in a while we do that. 11:39 - George (Guest) Yeah, once in a while it happens. 11:40 - Anne (Host) So I mean, I firsthand have had George for the longest time helping me with my audio, and also back in the day, and this goes into what we're going to be collaborating with. When I started VOPeeps, bosses, I don't know if you've heard of VOPeeps—hopefully you have—but I've run VOPeeps since 2010. And in 2010, I created a networking group that was physical, like people came to my house. 12:03 - George (Guest) Can you imagine? 12:04 - Anne (Host) Yeah, people came to my house for meetups, for meetups, and ultimately first it was just a bunch of voiceover actors and, you know, it was a get-together and we kind of like—we either had a little potluck and then it turned into something a little more extravagant where my husband would start making food and kind of catered it for us, and ultimately it was like-minded people getting together. And then I decided that I wanted to branch out and make it even bigger, and so I started inviting all my heroes, all my VO heroes, and I would interview them in my living room. I would interview mine in the living room, and ultimately people would come to the house and it would be a really cool local networking meetup. 12:44 - George (Guest) I remember helping to figure out some of the tech and stuff to make that work. It was quite an adventure. 12:50 - Anne (Host) I started streaming back in... 12:52 I want to say 2010 for sure, when streaming technology was just beginning, and I had had some experience working in technology from my previous job, and so I first started streaming those meetups live on the internet from my laptop computer on my coffee table with a blue snowball microphone and a little, I think it was a Logitech webcam. But the cool thing was is that I now went from a local meetup to a global meetup. And then, as we grew and I did these gosh, once a month for almost six years, and as we grew, I said, "Who's the person that can help me to really make this stand out and have great audio and stream my networking meetups over the internet?" Well, who better than George? So I hired George to come stream my meetups on the internet and take care of all the video recording and the audio. And it was great because you came with all your equipment and I had equipment. You helped set it up, and gosh, we had a good time, didn't we? We did. 14:00 - George (Guest) We did. It was such great memories. 14:02 - Anne (Host) Yeah, they grew and grew, and so that's pretty much my VO peeps. I have lots of great memories of it being physically in my house, and I think in 2017—was it 2016 or 2017—was when, finally, once a month, it became a lot because they grew. I had up to 55 people in my home that my husband was making themed meals. It was packed. 14:23 - George (Guest) It was sold out all the time. Themed drinks. 14:25 - Anne (Host) We started selling tickets to it, and gosh, we would definitely stream it live. We would have Zoom. We would have people working out via Zoom, and so we would actually have them piped in, piped in. We have Zoom piped in to my TV. 14:40 - George (Guest) It was sophisticated, it really was back in the day. I mean, you know, it was the closest to like having hybrid training where you've got people in the room and you've got people online, all at the same time. Yeah, it was very, very ahead of its time. 14:53 - Anne (Host) All across the globe. And so George was that tech geek that was there to like, put it together and help me. And I'd be like, "I want to do this." And George would be like, "Okay, let's—we can do this, we can do this." And so if you guys need outside of just audio—I mean George, the tech, right—any kind of tech, and I know bosses, as

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble tackle the often-overlooked financial realities of building a successful voiceover career. Their candid conversation reveals that achieving "overnight success" is typically the result of years of dedicated work and strategic sacrifices. They emphasize that time is a crucial financial asset and discuss the importance of making deliberate choices about where to invest it, alongside monetary resources. Anne and Danielle share personal experiences of delaying immediate wants to prioritize long-term business growth, highlighting the need for patience and a willingness to explore various income streams, even those outside one's primary passion. Ultimately, they empower voiceover professionals to take control of their financial journey by making informed sacrifices and defining their own path to sustainable success in the voiceover industry. 00:02 - Speaker 1 (Caller) Hi Anne, this is Jen Keefe from Real Women's Work Podcast. I just wanted to come on and say thank you, thank you, thank you for the series you're doing on AI and voice. I've listened to VO Boss Podcast for a few years now and it's always been informative and helpful, and not only is this series not an exception to that, but it is just the cherry on top. It has been so comforting and helpful to learn about this industry and I just thank you for taking all of the time you must have taken to research and understand, to know what questions to ask so that we're all better informed. It is just awesome, awesome, awesome. I feel excited and confident going forward into the future in the VO industry, all because of this series that you're doing. So thank you.  00:46 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's that season again. Are you feeling that tickle in your throat? Don't let a cold or flu slow you down. Combat your symptoms early with Vocal Immunity Blast, a simple and natural remedy designed to get you back to 100% fast. With certified therapeutic grade oils like lemon to support respiratory function, oregano for immune boosting power and a protective blend that shields against environmental threats, your vocal health is in good hands. Take charge of your health with Vocal Immunity Blast. Visit anganguzza.com to shop. 01:31 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza of.  01:45 VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 01:47 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talk series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to be back with special guest co-host Danielle Famble. Danielle, yay, hey, glad to be back, Danielle, it's been a while.  02:03 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, it has.  02:04 - Anne (Host) And you've been traveling.  02:05 - Danielle (Guest) I have. I have been traveling. Me too, I just got back from the JMC Euro Retreat in Dublin, which was amazing. I went a couple days early to go shopping and had a really great time Speaking of shopping, I really like your shirt.  02:22 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, Well, thank you. I really really resonated with your shirt. Oh my gosh, Well, thank you. I really really resonated with the shirt. I also happen to be traveling in Europe and happen to go back to Amsterdam, which I absolutely love that town, and I saw this in the store no sacrifice, no success and it just had all these really positive, like motivating messages on it and I said, wow, I just really resonate with that and I must have it, and so I bought it and I wanted to wear it it.  02:44 And I said, wow, I just really resonate with that and I must have it. And so I bought it and I wanted to wear it today, and I think there's a message for all of us bosses. No sacrifice no success. Let's talk about sacrificing as it relates to the Money Talk series and financials.  03:00 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, no, that's a huge part of financial success is sacrificing, sacrificing for your business, sacrificing the short term for your financial goals that are probably long term. That's a huge part of it. And I think that on the other side of that sacrifice, as your shirt says there is some level of success, because you need to be able to delay gratification sometimes to be able to get to success in what you're hoping to achieve in life.  03:27 - Anne (Host) Yeah, that's an interesting point that you bring up delaying gratification. You're absolutely right like I want this and I want it now because I feel like it's that kind of a I don't know. I feel like we're in that kind of culture these days where things are coming at us fast and we want things fast and a lot of times success does not come fast and so we need to kind of step it through. I was actually talking to one of my students the other day about like the steps I took to ultimately achieve my overnight success which, as I've said before on the podcast, took how many years.  03:59 I mean it took close to 10 years for that quote unquote overnight success.  04:05 But it took a lot of sacrifices, and not just financial, I mean. I know that this is the money talks, but financial can also mean your time, because your time is in essence money, especially when you're talking about your business.  04:17 - Danielle (Guest) Oh for sure, when you're talking about your business, there's parts of it that you just need to sort of stair step up.  04:23 So, you're probably front loading a lot of the education in the very beginning and that's a lot of time and it could be a lot of money, but it's mostly time intensive. And then from there then you can kind of take what you've been learning in that education phase and then implement it. But if you want to go from new to pro and you want it to happen quickly, if you try to go for like speed, you're going to be missing some things along the way. So the sacrifice is probably going to be sacrificing your time, it's probably going to be sacrificing your money and it's going to be making some difficult decisions. I mean, even with our business.  05:01 When I first started, I wanted a really expensive booth. I wanted the booth that I saw everybody else had on Zoom, and at that time I did not have that booth money. I just didn't. My business was not bringing in that much income and instead of just going after what it is that I wanted immediately, I chose to stair-step it and I chose to sacrifice what I wanted at that moment for the greater good of spending the money on coaching and spending the money on demos and things like that. And through that, for me success has come and I can afford that booth at some point. But now my goals have changed and the booth is not really the main thing that I'm wanting now. I'm wanting more education, maybe buying different mics or computers or peripherals to bring into the booth. So once you delay that, then you can kind of give yourself the time to recalibrate and readjust in your business.  06:00 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that you talked about like you're evolving, like because it does you stair-step it, but then your goals change and so even myself, I mean it's always, I think, an ever-growing, especially if you want to grow your business. Because I find myself I'm looking to diversify and to get into other things. As you know, everybody knows, I'm like a serial entrepreneur, but I like getting into other aspects of the voiceover business or other genres, getting into other aspects of the voiceover business or other genres, and so I've been actually spending a lot of time of which I don't have a ton studying and educating myself and taking classes.  06:31 And it was funny because, like last weekend, I literally I wasn't recording a VO Boss episode which is really odd for me because typically I do that on Saturdays but I found myself spending the entire day learning a new software so that I could see what were the capabilities, how could I implement this in the next step of growing my business. And that required me to sacrifice my entire Saturday and, of course, my happy hour and everybody's like you work so much. But I'm like, honestly, I really believe that doing the work now and getting the education and doing it during the times when I have available, I think it's going to and then commit to what they're going to do to get to those goals and figure out what sacrifices they're willing to make to get to those goals.  07:33 - Danielle (Guest) That's kind of the part of building and growing your business and scaling the business is that you're probably going to be making a lot of turns along the way, and are you okay with that and are you okay with the sacrifices that you're going to need to make in order to achieve those goals? So for you last week it was a sacrifice of time, but that time sacrifice is going to reap huge dividends later on when you know how to use that software. So really was the time sacrifice like that much of a sacrifice for you, or?  08:02 - Anne (Host) Is it something that was?  08:02 - Danielle (Guest) Really just an investment into your future.  08:05 - Anne (Host) And, interestingly enough, it was an investment into software, which I don't anticipate doing myself. I was looking into a new video editing software so I can create more content to get out right, so that I can again, like, get my brand out there. And so will I ultimately be spending all my time creating or editing videos? No, ultimately I'm going to be hiring somebody to direct them, but I want to know enough about this software to be able to intelligently direct them. And I think also, it's something to mention that, like you spoke about in the very beginning, we have to take sacrifices and maybe not get everything that we want immediately. Like our ultimate goal, I think, in voiceover is let's do something that brings us joy and let's make money at that. And ultimately, I think, along the way of achieving that goal, you might have to do things that may not bring you joy but will bring you income while you are trying to achieve that growth.  08:59 So I know for a fact when I was getting into voiceover and I went full time and I think I think I really speak to the people who are like they're part-time, maybe considering full-time, or they're part-time, considering dedicating more time to it that maybe they don't have and they've got a full-time job and they really hate their full-time job and they don't ever want to do anything like it again.  09:19 Well, I'll tell you what those skills are, what you have in order to ultimately, right, possibly, bring income in on a steady basis. So there might be an interim time where you might have to do consulting in something that you're really good at right. That can maybe help people so that you can bring in enough money to continually like reinvest that money into the growth of your career. And so I wanted to just say it may not be immediate gratification, like the society I think is these days, like I know myself, like I want it right away. I'm impatient, but I do believe that those steps to success and financially and when we talk financially we talk investing your money, having the money to invest as well as your time, which ends up turning into being money for you- oh, for sure, I always think that you need to follow the dollars and do whatever you can to get to your next dollar in business.  10:14 - Danielle (Guest) And if that is education, then follow that. If that is consulting, so that you can have additional money coming in, so that you can use that to channel into your business, then do it. Figure out how you can bring in resources and revenue so that you can use that to then grow your business. And I've said it before, I'll say it again it is totally okay to have your side hustle be what can fund your main hustle until it's time Like that's totally, totally fine, because there's no glory in being a starving artist.  10:52 I really don't think that that's the way that is going to be a long-term measurement of success for you to sort of take away from your current in the hopes of a possibility of a future when you could be doing things along the way to help like infuse capital into your life and your business to help keep you going for longer.  11:12 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. I mean, when you've got a family that might depend on that income, right, so it becomes more than just I mean really depends on where you're at in your life and who's depending on income coming in to pay a mortgage or to support a family. And so in reality, I'm always when my students are asking me should I go full-time into voiceover and they have a family and children, I'm like, well, you've got to really think about this because you need to be able to secure steady income coming in to be able to support, and it's wonderful and I get it. I mean, I think we all get to this point, or a lot of us get to this point, when we've been in a corporate job for a long time and we just it becomes toxic, we hate it and we're like we just want to do what we love full time.  11:55 Well, that may not be achievable within a day, obviously, or even a week, or even a year, because, as I mentioned before, it took me a good oh, I'm going to say maybe eight years before I really got a return on my investment when I went full-time. And so make sure you have that financial cushion to be able to support whatever it is that you need to support yourself, other family members, and it doesn't matter if you're an Uber driver or maybe you're taking the skills that you have during your day job and creating a side hustle business out of that in order to make the extra income. And I always try to say, well, let's make my side hustle. Something I love to do Doesn't necessarily have to be voiceover, and so I love podcasting, so I'm looking to expand my podcasting, consulting that kind of a thing. So how can I do that effectively? Right, how can I get the message out? And, gosh Danielle, after I figure out, like, how I want to grow, guess what comes next? I've got to market myself.  12:53 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, and there's probably going to be more sacrifice in order to get to where you're going and also the sacrifice is looking at what is and figuring out what is or isn't working. So you're looking at your business, the landscape of your business now, and voiceover is working. The other things that you're doing are working, the podcasting is working, and so you're thinking, all right, well, all of these things are working, what else can I do and how else can I build it? And that's great. But also, if something's not working, then you really should look at that and say, all right, well, do I need to keep going down this path? That isn't working.  13:30 Maybe it is keeping a day job that you don't love and don't feel fulfilled with, but maybe you still need to be bringing in an income because you've got people to support and yourself to support.  13:40 Maybe it's just finding a different job that can help bring in income while you're working toward growing your voiceover business. Maybe there are certain genres that you really like, but you're not making a lot of money in and so maybe it's looking at all right, I do enjoy this particular genre, but I'm making a ton more money in a different genre. Let me keep cultivating that, but have the passion working in this genre that I love. That maybe isn't paying as much. Those kinds of hard questions are really the sacrifices I think that we're talking about here, not necessarily just financial, but understanding that to get to the level of success that you're wanting to get, whatever your measure of success is looking at the decisions that need to be made and making the hard choices and making those sacrifices, be it financial or otherwise, to then get you to where you're trying to go in your version of success.  14:35 - Anne (Host) I love how you brought up the different genres too, because it's something else to look at. When you're doing a genre, there's so many people that want to do, let's say, character voices or animation or promo, and it's something to be said that, while you're working toward that goal right, you can also financially invest yourself and your time into other genres that can be bringing you money in. While that happens and of course, that happens to be one of my specialties happens to be the corporate market, and I'm always trying to explain to people that it may not be the most glamorous and it may not be the one that brings you the most joy. However, when you talk about market share, you've literally got so many opportunities for corporate narration compared to maybe, let's say, animation, because there's only so many animated shows out there. However, I upped my number, I've now researched and my number is now 33.2 million registered companies.  15:28 It used to be 30.4. Now it's 33.2 million companies that are registered with the SBA in the United States, and so that's just a lot of opportunities, a lot of potential opportunities, because you've got those companies that probably have a website and they probably have a YouTube channel and they need a voice at one point or another to be able to talk about those products and services.  15:48 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, that's a really great point, because there's part of this industry that can be purely just economics. It can just purely be about what pays the bills. And then there's other parts of it as actors, but figuring out what it is that you can do that pays the bills and also fills your soul. And it may not be the same thing, but how can you put your time and your energy and your efforts into creating as much money and fulfillment as possible in your day, in your life, in your business?  16:31 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. And it's so funny because I'm always like with corporate narration, people just think it's so boring and a lot of people just think it's so boring and I'm like, wow, I completely don't think that, because to me it's just challenging. It's challenging to be able to find the story in some of the corporate copy. It's not that it's necessarily to me boring, but I love the challenge. As an artist, I love the challenge of where is the story here and how can I tell it in the most interesting way. And also, just again, looking at the absolute size of the market that is out there and also understanding and keeping my eye on all sorts of other things happening in the industry. And so, while I have my eye on that, making sure that if I love being an entrepreneur and I love being a boss, how am I going to continue to bring in money when, let's say, maybe times are slow in the industry, Like there are also slow points in the marketplace Right now? Certain genres I think are busier than ever, like political.  17:33 And of course anybody that's doing commercials for the holidays, right? I mean, they've been busy. But maybe during the holidays there are certain other genres that aren't as busy, right? Maybe corporate narration isn't quite as busy, maybe e-learning is not quite as busy during that time. But understanding the fluctuations in the market and when those happen, for you I have the genre I always want to do character work, and so I'm continually working towards that. But to supplement my financial income, I'm going to do some corporate or I'm going to do some e-learning, or I'm going to do some telephony, whatever that is. And then understanding where the fluctuations are in the marketplace, and so if there is just no work coming in, then invest your time in figuring out how you're going to grow that business. And again, which translates to your time is money.  18:18 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, and that is the measure of entrepreneurship, that is the measure of being the VO boss. That's what it means to look at. Okay, what's going on in the industry, what's going on with the things that I do well or genres that I would like to do well in, and how can I maneuver myself to be able to take advantage of all of it? Maybe not at the same time, but be able to move laterally into and out of genres when they're at their high points, or maybe moving out of something if there's a strike, for example. You know that's happening right now. Or figuring out, like, what's going on in the market and how you can maneuver your business to be the best positioned that it possibly can be. Like that's the name of the game. It's not just about what you do and how you show up in front of your mic. It's really about figuring out how you can position your business to win, no matter what the circumstances are as much as they say.  19:17 - Anne (Host) This is not a competitive industry, because every voice is unique. In reality, I'm competing against myself so that I can continually progress forward and win. I love it that you said win, because, danielle, I'm not competitive at all, right Me either.  19:32 - Danielle (Guest) I'm not competitive at all.  19:34 - Anne (Host) Not at all, but yeah, but really yeah, how can you win? How can you win? And, like you were mentioning earlier, what is your definition of success? Because there are some people that financial is not necessarily the definition of success and I know that we're going to actually have an episode coming up on like determining what is your hourly rate, like what is your hourly worth? Right In trying to determine what's working and what's not. How are you determining? Okay, I'm spending an hour learning this and what is that time worth? Versus if I get a commercial, I can make this amount of money. How does that translate into my hourly rate? If I do a corporate narration and I get paid once, how does that translate into my hourly rate? If I do a corporate narration and I get paid once, how does that translate? So you can kind of decide how you can move forward in your business and what you should work on, maybe what you should focus on or what goals you can set for the next level.  20:24 - Danielle (Guest) For sure I love that.  20:25 I think, then, that also brings a lot of ability to the individual voice actor to be the person who is choosing what winning and success looks like, and it's got nothing to do with what you're seeing in these Facebook groups or how other people are running their business.  20:40 It's got everything to do with what you have chosen, what you've decided, and it gives you something to do. I feel like sometimes it feels like so many things are out of your control. When it comes to running a business, when it comes to being a VO boss, it really is like, okay, well, I did this audition, did someone choose it or not? Have I been chosen? Are all these people, these gatekeepers out there? Is it working in my favor or not? But when you have something that you personally can do and you can take ownership of how you are running your business, it's empowering and really what you were just talking about is the individual business owner and entrepreneur and VO boss being able to empower themselves and choose what is your definition of success and what can you do to make sure that you get there. And then it's got nothing to do with anyone else choosing you or not choosing you. It's got everything to do with what you've done to make yourself the most successful that you can possibly be.  21:38 - Anne (Host) I love that. I feel like that could be a completely separate episode too, talking about what is it that you own, right? What is it that you own? There are things that we don't control, like do we get picked, do I get feedback? And that's the stuff I think a lot of voice actors get preoccupied with, like oh okay, so why am I not getting picked? Or I audition, but I never hear back, and so they spend all their time worrying about that.  22:02 But I think what you said is just absolutely on point, like what is it that you can do to control right? That you take control of what it is that you can control and that's going to be what moves you forward and that's what's going to keep you, I'm going to say, out of the mindset of self-sabotage or imposter syndrome. And so I can't control whether somebody picks me or not necessarily for my audition, because there are so many elements that aren't in my control. But I can control my performance. I can control how good I am right. I can control my performance. I can control how good I am right. I can control getting coaching if I need more. I can control marketing in my business, right. I can control researching what's happening and what trends are happening now. So those are things I can do.  22:44 - Danielle (Guest) You can control your audio quality. You can control how much money you're saving and reinvesting in your business. You can control who you work with. You can say no to working with certain clients and certain jobs if it doesn't serve you or the rate doesn't serve you or the subject matter does not serve you. There are so many things that are in your control that owning that and really living in the peace of the ownership of that really can be what helps you feel like you're actually doing a little bit more every single day to be the VO boss that you ultimately want to be.  23:20 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and your mention of how empowering that is, I mean that is so empowering. I mean I know that, me the control freak. Maybe that's why I'm a serial entrepreneur, I have no idea because I can control that, I can control the education, I can control the direction that I'm moving and if it's not necessarily moving the way I want it to or expect it to, I can move it again and I can change it again. And so that keeps me the control freak, which it can be a good thing, it can also be a bad thing, but I think for me, I utilize that personality trait that I have of always wanting to have control in a positive way to help me grow and then still understanding that I have these things under my control and then understanding, almost more importantly, what it is that is not under my control and not allowing that to affect me in any way in terms of my mental state.  24:06 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.  24:09 - Anne (Host) Wow, what a great conversation. So yeah guys, no sacrifice, no success. I am a big believer in really taking the ownership, making the sacrifices that you need, and that sacrifice doesn't necessarily need to be money. It could be your time, your dedication, your effort, your spirit, right, all of that. Whatever, it takes that kind of go-get-em sort of boss attitude that just goes for it and just tries things. If it doesn't work, try it another way, right, and really tries not to allow any of that to get in the way, or even yourself to get in the way.  24:45 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, I love it.  24:45 - Anne (Host) Danielle, I love it. Great, great conversation. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTL.com and, guys, you have an amazing week. Go out there and make those sacrifices, because we know you guys are going to be great successes. So have a good one, guys, and we'll see you next week. See you later, bye.  25:13 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.