VO BOSS

  BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides dive into how to cultivate hope and resilience in the ever-evolving voiceover industry. Their inspiring conversation explores discovering your strengths, overcoming challenges, and taking action to achieve your dreams. They emphasize the importance of self-love, nurturing your community, and understanding your true purpose to remain joyful and hopeful. Anne and Lau share practical strategies for educating yourself on industry trends, adapting your marketing approaches to reach diverse clients, and even exploring self-production to build your skills and discover new passions. By embracing change and leveraging your entrepreneurial spirit, they empower voice actors to not just survive, but truly thrive and build the best year ever in their careers.   00:02 - Anne (Host) Hey, are you looking to unlock a better you? My Life Transformation Coaching Services are here to help. We'll work together to discover your strengths, overcome your challenges, and achieve your dreams. Let's take that first step towards your best self today. Visit anneganguzza.com to get started. 00:23 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 00:42 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with my absolutely wonderful friend and lovely co-host, Lau Lapides. Hey, Annie. Hello, I'm excited to be back. Hello Lau. I love chit-chatting, and you know what, it's been so long. I know, and we're here at the top of another year. Well, actually, a few months into another year, and I'll tell you what, it's been a little turbulent in a lot of ways. Gosh, I've had a lot of friends who have had some health issues. It's a new administration out there. The voiceover industry is still fighting against synthetic voices and AI, and I think let's talk about what's happening in the industry and what maybe our predictions are for this year, because I am determined and committed to have the best year ever. 01:33 - Lau (Guest) Oh, I love that. I mean, I just went to see a theater show, a professional theater show, in Connecticut. That was a big topic of conversation: how do we have hope? How do we still have hope in what we do as people in the world and also in our professions, and really coming in with that mindset, despite all odds, despite what's happening, despite whatever oppression you're feeling and moving through, how do we find hope in what we do? I'd love to hear, you know, start out with some of those mechanics of like how do I wake up and get hopeful about our profession? I love that. 02:10 - Anne (Host) What a great way to start. I love that. So I think that, now more than ever, we need self-love, right? We need self-love, we need to find the things that we're grateful for in our lives, and we need to have our community, and that, I think, is going to help us continue to have hope. I mean, I feel like those are the three necessary things that I need for me to remain joyful and be hopeful and continue to see progress in everything that I do and have a purpose, right? I really think that understanding what is your true purpose in life, finding your true purpose—which I think might be a lifelong search—but I have a good idea of what I think my purpose is and what I want to do in my lifetime, and I try to keep my eye on that mission, and that keeps me, along with people who I love and who love me, and that keeps me hopeful. 03:06 - Lau (Guest) That's great. I also feel like the next step for me is to start with that and then to take action. Because for me, I'm very much an action-based, execution-based person. So I wouldn't be happy staying in a zone where I have a thought, I'm excited about the thought, or I'm connected to something larger than myself. I'm really investigating that thought, but now I want to do something. 03:34 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and in that action, now you have to execute. Now you have to execute. I love that. I think that's a natural progression for anybody that wants to realize their goals is that you can write them down. All you want, right, but you've got to take steps and have action. You've got to take steps. 03:49 - Lau (Guest) So in our industry, that is the question: how do I go ahead and take a step every single day, whatever is going on in the industry? We see a lot of moves and changes in the industry. How do I take a step every day towards being hopeful and towards being optimistic and towards really something that's action-based? That's the question of the day. 04:12 - Anne (Host) Well, I think number one, if we step back and we take a look and we realize that we are indeed not just creatives, but we are entrepreneurs, we are business builders. First of all, take solace and give yourself props and be prideful in the fact that you are a business entrepreneur. And bar none, if the voiceover industry dropped tomorrow, right, you are an entrepreneur, you are a business owner, you know how to take something from nothing and build it, right? Because that's what you're doing now, building your voice acting career. And wherever you are in the journey, you just have to realize what an entrepreneur you are. And so, no matter what it is that you do, right, you can build your business and move forward in it, or move forward in it. There are always choices. 04:59 And so that's number one: stepping back and looking at it, I think, from the larger perspective and the fact that we have built skills, not just in our voices, not just in acting, but in our business acumen, and that is helpful, right? And so if voice acting kind of takes a dip, right—and I don't honestly, it's not—I really believe that, I don't think that it's going anywhere, I think it's right where it always has been and might even be more important this year. But for whatever reason, we always have to have like what's our plan B? I mean, this is why I always like to have like my different side hustles, side gigs. We've talked about that multiple times. So looking at that picture and there's my hope, right, I've got skills beyond voice acting that can help me to survive no matter what happens, right? 05:46 No matter what happens, no one can take that away from me. No one can take away my education, no one can take away my intelligence, no one can take away my work ethic, right? And that, to me, gives me hope. 06:00 - Lau (Guest) You go, girl. I love that, my resilience. You know, I think you're talking about too, Annie, something that's really important, and that is when we hone in and we GPS into our career. I think we do forget that we're whole people. Yeah, we're whole people that have a lot of skills. 06:16 - Anne (Host) We don't just have one skill. A lot of craft, no, no, no, we can do an awful lot of things. Now. 06:25 - Lau (Guest) We love to call it side hustle, but it may not be a side hustle. It may be an integral part of your life, your business, your world, that makes you feel whole, that makes you feel stabilized. You know, oftentimes with actors, we'll call it a survival job, but it may not be that. It may be something that helps you build your world. So I think that's important. I also think you should be looking at the market. You and I are always like, what's happening? 06:46 What's competition doing? What's this one doing? What's happening here? What are the trends? 06:51 - Anne (Host) Right, very important. 06:53 - Lau (Guest) But what's important about doing that, besides the logistical stuff, is to inspire yourself, sure. 07:01 - Anne (Host) If. 07:01 - Lau (Guest) I can't think of anything else. Like I am really out of thoughts today. I feel burned out, which is very common now. Entrepreneurial burnout. I don't have any more to give. I've been doing this a long time. I don't know what's going on. Ah, let me go into the world and let me see what others are doing to inspire me. 07:17 - Anne (Host) Oh yeah, I love that. Get outside my bubble. 07:19 - Lau (Guest) Goodness, there's. So not to be a copycat, but to feel like there's a lot of options, there's a lot of ways of thinking about what we do. I'm just stuck like a writer. A writer gets writers, they get stuck, writer's block, writer's block, right, and they have no more ideas, or so they think. And then some action gets them unstuck and opens up the floodgates. 07:40 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. Go on a vacation, go people-watch in New York City or, you know, that kind of—I used to do that all the time—to step outside of your bubble, and that will help you to really get that mind going. So I'm going to say that number one, there's so many things that we can do for ourselves to continually see success and find fulfillment in what we do. Continually see success and find fulfillment in what we do, and I think if voice acting is it for you, right, don't forget about continually building up your business skills and don't forget about, like as we just talked about, educating yourself and really going out there and understanding what the trends are. Now there's been a big shift in the administration, right? How is that going to affect sales of companies? How is that going to affect advertising? There's so much we can go out there and learn, right, and we don't know it all right away. I don't know it all right away, but I can certainly see that there's probably going to be trends. 08:34 Now, depending on what we're talking about, in the corporate world, we're going to be talking slightly differently. A few years ago, what was a big trend was DEI, and no matter what you think about DEI—diversity, equity, inclusion—how are people going to be talking about that today? How are people in the energy industry going to be talking? Is it going to be sustainability these days? Is it going to be alternative energy or is it going to be fracking? And again, like I'm saying, understanding—you don't always have to be in agreement with these things—but understanding where the trends are going and how companies are speaking. 09:08 If you want to work in that world, right, you have to at least be educated on how that world wants to talk to its clients or potential clients, because you will be representing that world with your voice. 09:21 And so, again, I'm not suggesting that you have to agree with any of it. But again, that's also like what is your moral compass? Would you work for a company that maybe is no longer concerned about sustainability or that's not in their agenda? I mean, there's so many people going back and forth on different companies that, based upon their policies, right, "Oh, I don't want to buy from this company anymore because they no longer support this particular idea or this particular policy," and so that's okay. I've had so many people are like, "I don't want to look, I can't," and they want to like shy away, but I'm going to tell you, look enough so that you can be educated, right, because you got to survive. You got to survive in this world, and I'm very, very confident that you will be able to survive in this world. But you have to remain educated and informed. 10:04 - Lau (Guest) Great advice, Annie, great advice. And you know, it's interesting, I had a talent I was coaching the other day and she said, "I'm very interested in medical, I want to do medical work, I'm interested in that, I have a background." I said, "Great!" I simply hopped on Google with her. I hopped on Google with her and I looked up and, sure enough, and she said, "I can't get into it. It's very hard to get into. I've been trying to knock down the doors. I don't know how to direct market. I'm stuck." Now. That is not my forte. And I was honest with her. I said that's not my forte. But let's have fun together, let's go on Google. We looked it up and what did we find? We found two sites, sort of like an Indeed ZipRecruiter-type site, specifically for voiceover, for medical narration. And she started in that rabbit hole and she went down. She said, "Oh, my goodness, that was like the simplest thing to do and I had already self-talked myself out of it before I even tried the most basic things." And she got into it and it was a casting site and da-da-da, da-da-da. And then that opened up her whole world to potential clients. 11:08 So why not go for a genre that you want to be going for and take new angles to how you find your information out? Don't go the same route you go every day. Try a new route. That's the feng shui of the soul, isn't it? They say if you drive to work this way, take a new route so that you can feel differently. If you drive to work, or you drive anywhere, take a new route. Well, this is the same thing. If I'm marketing and I tend to do the same thing all the time because I know it and I'm comfortable, go a different route. 11:37 - Anne (Host) And shameless plug, because medical is one of my specialties. There are ways that you've got to be seen by the people who can hire you, people who can hire you, and I do have a VO Boss Blast that has specific lists that can cater just for agencies and companies that work in healthcare and in pharmaceuticals. So there are lots of ways that can help and so just I'm throwing that out there. So if anybody's interested in medical and wants to find out how to market to them, I can absolutely chit-chat about you. 12:03 - Lau (Guest) And right, but I think the point is is like yes, you found a new way, Google. 12:08 - Anne (Host) I love Google, and I'll tell you what. I will be completely—a Chat GPT, sorry, Chat GPT, is a great answer of hey, tell me what's trending, but you have to have a professional version because it's now up to date or it can be as close up to date, so it's becoming a search engine. But Google is wonderful. 12:32 - Lau (Guest) Again, that's why they call me Anne Gang Google. You can Google anything. 12:33 - Anne (Host) I didn't know. They called you that. That's funny, Anne Gang Google, that's great. 12:35 - Lau (Guest) I love it. 12:35 - Anne (Host) So that's a wonderful thing. So, yeah, make sure that you educate yourself and stay informed. Don't stay in your little bubble, because that's going to help you. I mean, long ago, when I worked in technology, it was one of the things that you had to just be out there educating yourself on all different styles of technology, whether you like them or not, or thought they worked or not. It just was something. So it's always good to be more educated. So, so, absolutely, so important. That's the one thing that I have when you say to me, "Okay, Anne, when you've lost all hope, what do you have?" Well, I have my community. Lost all hope. What do you have? Well, I have my community, I have my family, I have love, and I have me, I have my intelligence and I have my desire to want to know more and to learn more, and that nobody can take away from me, right? 13:15 - Lau (Guest) And there's one more thing that's important, and I always bring this up. Mama always brings this up. You got to work your fanny off. Yes, because I'm tired of hearing people whining and complaining and being victims like, "I'm not getting anything and there's enough work." I'm like, no, you're not working hard enough, because there's plenty of work out there. You got to find it, you got to get it. You got to work at it, right, Annie? You have to go after it. They're not going to come after you. You have to go after it. 13:44 - Anne (Host) And the stories you tell yourself also. They're a big deal. "I can't, I just can't. I'm not, I'm not enough, or I'm not good enough, or I don't know where to look, or I can't." All that negative self-talk does not help you at all, believe it or not. I mean? 13:59 - Lau (Guest) And what if you are on Annie Gang Google's search site and you look up voiceover talent in your area or not? Either way is fine, and they are in your range. Maybe they're female, they're in a certain age range, and you look at them and you see what they're doing and you see who their clients are, because you can go right to their websites and you're going to go and you're going to go, "Oh, I want to do that, I want to work in that. I never would have sat here and thought that up on my own, but now I see this fabulous woman that I found somewhere in Texas is doing all the things that I want to do," and then you make a list of all the companies she's worked with, and then you create a fabulous letter for those companies. And then you look up all the email addresses at that company, and then you send that fabulous letter to that company. What are the chances that someone from that company may ping you back and say, "Hey, yeah, we kind of work with voiceover talent. Who are you?" 14:56 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. Well, and I know, marketing is never an easy task, guys. It just isn't, and again, remember. 15:03 Remember, there are multiple ways. How is marketing changing this year, right? And it's funny, because I did a lecture for a college class the other day and I said to them, "How do you like to communicate? If you were in voiceover today and you had a business, how would you like to find your potential clients? Or how would you communicate or reach out to your potential clients?" Not one of them. They said, "Well, we hate email, text." And I'm like, "Okay, that's fine for you and maybe everybody else. 15:28 Your age, however, you got to realize where are these potential clients? Some of them are older than you. Some of them have different methods of communication that they prefer. I mean, ultimately, in 20, 30 years, you'll all be the same age and you'll all—we'll all evolve to that method of communication. 15:43 But right now, if you're trying to get work in the corporate world and you're trying to get in with a company that has someone who might be, you know, in their 60s managing the company, they might prefer email. 15:56 They might prefer a method of communication that's not just text or pick up the phone are something that I think that every voice actor needs to understand and get on board with, that you are dealing with people in business who are very different. 16:15 There's lots of people that, yes, they do a lot of work via text, but a lot of people do work via groups, Microsoft Teams, Zoom meetings. There's so many ways. 16:25 Pick up the phone, talk to somebody, and, really, if you are uncomfortable with one method and you want to work in an area where you might be working with people from all different ages, all different styles, you need to get familiar with those methods and that, I think, is important again for you to stay afloat this year to be able to communicate with all different types of people, with all different styles of communication and hiring, really, and hiring methods, and so that is something that if you're not on board with, if you're like, "Nah, I don't want to email," or "I hate email and I think it's stupid," honestly, there's a bunch of people that still use email quite a bit, and especially now that maybe social media is kind of scattered everywhere. 17:12 Now it may not be as easy now on social media. Remember, we lost TikTok for less than 24 hours and the world panicked, right? All these people who had put all their eggs in one basket. So don't put all your eggs in the texting basket if you're young, right, as a means of communication or getting work, right? There's multiple ways that you can get work, multiple ways you can communicate and make your product known to people. 17:36 - Lau (Guest) That's great advice. It's so client-centered, which I love about it, and I think whole generations of people need to keep that aware of that. The mode of communication you need to keep open, whether it's a telephone, a text, an email, a DM. You need to keep that open and what your client or your rep is comfortable with is ultimately what you have to get comfortable with, and most agents do not want you texting them. They're going to work on email. 18:01 If you don't want to work on email, you're not going to be able to get reps. It's as simple as that, right? If you don't check your email. 18:07 - Anne (Host) You could lose out on jobs. If you don't check your voicemail, believe it or not. I mean, I have people that leave me voicemail still, and it's one of those things. I'm like, "We've gotten so much. We've been bombarded." Email, voicemail, text, and spam, right, because people are trying to get in touch with us, and so make sure you're checking your spam as well to make sure somebody hasn't reached out to you that wants a potential connection to maybe offer you a job, and not only that, but if you don't like email, you're really in trouble, because agents will expect you to answer within a reasonable amount of time, which is a matter of hours, not days, on email, so you can miss out on that job. 18:55 And you have to be adept at utilizing technology when you're submitting auditions. You have to make sure that you understand how to submit an audition. We've run our audition demolition multiple times. I'm running now a scholarship submission where people are like, "I don't know how to submit," and I'm like, "Well, you've got to read the instructions." So, guys, get yourself familiar with all different styles and ways of communicating and handling files and audio and that sort of thing. Now, Lau, we talked about first of all, like making sure that we're educated on different styles, on different trends. What do you think is going to be big this year? Is there a genre that's going to stand out? Are they all going to be similar to how they were last year? What do you think? 19:34 - Lau (Guest) That's a really good question. I think one of the things that I've seen more and more of as a commercial agent is I've seen more and more really fun and creative advertising campaigns that have come in the last, even in the last couple of years, that I would gather are going to come this year as well. Like, for instance, I've seen more animation. I've seen more of that character style come into the commercial world, which is really interesting because it's so oppositional to what we've been saying about be real, be relatable, be this, be that, which is predominantly, yes, still there, but we're also seeing these characters come in. 20:10 Like, if you notice, watch commercials, you'll see a lot of animals, tons and tons and tons and tons of animals. In commercials, the animals typically have personas of people, have personas of people, and whether they're speaking in their natural, everyday voice or whether they're doing a character sound, there's just a lot of it. There's more of it. So what's coming across my desk is just more character and more animation. Even in the pharmaceutical world, we're seeing a lot more exciting, dancey, musical animation, moving stuff, colorful stuff. 20:45 - Anne (Host) They're vying for our attention in the pharmaceutical. They're vying for our attention, so we want actors. 20:50 - Lau (Guest) I'll use that word, actors. We want actors that can shift from just a real, down-to-earth sound to playing that duck or playing that pigeon. 21:00 - Anne (Host) Well, I'm going to say, medically speaking, because medical is one of my favorite genres, is, I also feel like, because there are changes this year with administration and how they're dealing with healthcare funding—a lot of it—and so I think that healthcare companies, which have always been very traditionally corporate America, money-centric, I think, are going to be vying for our business, and so I do feel like there's going to be a lot of competition between hospitals and medical products that are looking to get us as consumers to buy into it, because their funding might be less than it was and I think for a while it's going to make them compete more with each other to get the business and the money that they are used to having. Where they might have gotten some money in funding before, now they might, who knows? I'm not even going to speculate about prices, but I feel like, because it's going to be more competitive, it might work to our advantage for a little bit. It may not be regulated. I mean, I would hope it's somewhat regulated, but as a breast cancer survivor, I will say that I don't love the fact that it's been defunded or that kind of a thing. 22:08 I feel like certain things are important to be funded in this, but without getting political, but just know that, right, I happen to know that is one of the things that I have been hearing, so I'm like, "Okay, so how is that going to affect those companies that ultimately relied on that funding to operate?" 22:25 Right, are they going to now transition into healthcare and so maybe there'll be more demand in hospitals, right, so hospitals can get that money easier? So now maybe the context and the content of what we're going to be talking about will be slightly different or more centric on hospitals versus organizations, slightly different or more centric on hospitals versus organizations. So that's just something to be aware of and to know. And, again, like I say, I try to remain a little bit neutral on it because, again, if you want to work in those genres and you want to work for a company that is going to be in America in the next years, right, figure out how things are changing for them and then figure out how your voice and how their voice brand is going to change and then evolve with that or not. Choose to not evolve with that if you don't agree with it, yeah, and I don't know. 23:11 - Lau (Guest) I can't really predict, Annie, what's going to happen in the pharmaceutical market, because that's a really, really moving and shaking industry right now and everything is being shaken up with that. But there was a time that I remember that it was not legal to advertise on TV pharmaceutical products. 23:27 I remember that when that came in, that that was passed, that it was legal. Suddenly, we saw 24/7 advertising of pharmaceuticals, which is a very controversial issue for many people, but I'm just going to speak on the side of our industry and talent. It was a virtual candy land. It was a Disneyland of opportunities for both actors and voice talent that they were and still are auditioning for pharmaceuticals all the time. Will that change? I don't know. It could. 23:55 - Anne (Host) And will there be more? I mean, in the pharmaceutical side, yes, the commercial aspect of things, that corporate side, but there's also the educational side, right? Again. How is that going to evolve? How is that going to change? And so, keep your eyes open. That's I think my best advice would be for talent, to keep your eyes open and to really be as educated as you can, without suffering consequences of maybe getting too much division or toxicity from your news source or your social media, wherever you get that from, but make sure that you're educated and I think that, honestly, if you can again prove to yourself. It's like when the pandemic hit, right? How did we evolve as businesses? Here we are with another large kind of transition or, you know, maybe change that might be happening that can affect our industry. How can you, as a business, evolve along with that? 24:46 And I think you'll be fine. I mean, I really believe there's still a necessity. Nobody's saying that voiceover is illegal. 24:53 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I'm just going to say it like voiceover is not illegal, so therefore the opportunities are endless, right? 25:00 - Anne (Host) Just if you step back and kind of look at the humorous part of it. It's not illegal to do voiceover, right? So guess what, the opportunities are what we make of them, right? We can create as many opportunities as we want, right? Again, it's up to us. We are the entrepreneurs, we are the creators of our businesses and of our destiny. I can't lose hope in that. 25:21 - Lau (Guest) And, of course, we're always going to need human beings. We're always going to need human voices. It may shift and pivot in different directions, but the industry does that anyway. It really has done that the whole way through. And I want to throw in one more before we wrap, Annie, I want to talk about self-producing. I think it's very important that people feel empowered to self-produce their own work. Like maybe you say, "I always wanted to do this. I haven't gotten hired." Well, produce your own, write a script, create it, clean it up, throw some music in, put it on YouTube, put it on your channel, make it known that you want to do this work by doing the work, right? That's the power of a demo. The demo is demonstrating the kind of work that you want to do. 26:05 - Anne (Host) But I am going to say, as a demo producer, Lau, that again, you've got to be careful, you've got to be really careful. I mean, yes, you can create samples, you have to be careful. 26:13 - Lau (Guest) But I'm not saying to create a full demo. I'm saying if I want to do animation and I have no work under my belt and no one's going to be looking at me, I want to say, "Hey, I want to do a 15-second spot," and produce that and see what that's like. 26:28 - Anne (Host) But make sure that you have the license for the music, make sure that everything is legal on that end of things, because, again, there's a lot of DIY going on in the animation world and there's a lot of again. Remember, what you do speaks volumes. Yes, right, and yes, DIY is great for education, absolutely. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and I think you can learn a lot by doing that and, as a matter of fact, it's probably a great way to get to know better what you want. Ultimately, when you have the money to invest in a professionally produced sample or demo. 27:06 - Lau (Guest) So if you do it yourself, you know what's involved in it. Yes, and that is so great that you brought that up, because I'm seeing so many talent getting into audiobooks, which is fantastic because it's such a wonderful world, but I see so many talent getting out of audiobooks because, guess what? They're doing it and many of them don't want to do it and they don't realize they don't want to do it until they do it, until they do it. And then others do it and they say, "I have fallen in love, this is it. I didn't even know how wonderful this is." Absolutely, and this is really my calling. So the point is, I think what I'm trying to say is, of course, work under qualified coaches, work with demo teams. Of course, what I'm saying is dabble your toes in water of doing the work to see how you feel about it. 27:47 You know, the idea is different than the reality. 27:50 - Anne (Host) Agreed, agreed, and I don't think there's anything wrong with a DIY that educates you. Yeah, really, always, because, like I always try to learn from when I create videos, I'm trying to learn my video editing software. Does it mean that I'm a video editor for reals? Right, I mean, but I want to be able to know the steps and what's required so that I can direct somebody else that can maybe do it for me, right? 28:11 - Lau (Guest) So yeah, there it is. There it is. There's a plethora of actions you can take and go with the trends and pay attention and see what your competition is doing and see where it leads, but also create your own path. 28:23 - Anne (Host) Pioneer your own way. 28:25 - Lau (Guest) That's the best entrepreneur, isn't it? 28:28 - Anne (Host) The future is bright and I'll tell you what, I'm excited. And again, I am excited for evolving, I'm excited for changing if I need to, and I'm excited to see. I mean, honestly, you have to embrace the change. You have to embrace evolving along with change and allow it to be something that ignites you and excites you. And I have all sorts of positive thoughts about this year and for you guys, for bosses out there, positive thoughts. Absolutely. All right. Thumbs up, big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too, can connect, network like bosses, and move your businesses forward. Find out more at IPDTL.com. You guys have an amazing week. Lau, thank you so much. We'll see you next week, guys, see you next time. 29:13 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere dive into the essential digital toolkit for today's voiceover professionals. Their lively conversation spotlights practical solutions for safeguarding valuable audio, effortlessly showcasing your work, and leveraging the power of AI to streamline your workflow. They unveil their go-to platforms for reliable cloud backups, easy video conversion for portfolio building, and AI assistants that can help with everything from crafting professional communications to generating content ideas. By sharing their tried-and-true tech arsenal, Anne and Tom empower voice actors to work smarter, not harder, and confidently navigate the ever-evolving digital landscape of the voiceover industry. 00:02 - Anne (Host) Hey, if you're looking to take your podcast to the next level, my podcast consultation coaching services teach you how to sound more authentic, develop smart strategies, and market your show effectively. Let's elevate your podcast together. Visit anneganguzza.com to get started. 00:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level: the BOSS level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like1 a BOSS—a VO BOSS. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.2 00:42 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Real BOSS Series. I'm here, Anne Ganguzza, with my good friend, Mr. Tom Dheere. Hello, Tom Dheere, how are you today? 00:53 - Tom (Guest) I am good. Anne Ganguzza, how are you? 00:56 - Anne (Host) I am relieved. 00:58 - Tom (Guest) Relieved? Want to know why? Yes, why? 01:01 - Anne (Host) Well, I had a scare this week where I all of a sudden went to go access one of my audio files to send to my client, and it said, "No, there's no drive." And I went, "Oh my God, I lost my drive!" And that's one of those things—I don't know if you're on an Apple Mac or any kind of computer—when all of a sudden the drive doesn't show up, you're like, "Oh my God, let me unplug it, let me replug it, let me unplug it, replug it," and you wait to hear it spin up. And back in the day, when I used to work in technology, it was a thing. Like your backup plan had to be solid because you could not lose any data, and it used to be very complex where you would have RAID systems and you would have dual backup systems, and you'd pay a lot of money to have systems backing up to other things. And I'll tell you what I got. 01:45 So, paranoid, I unplugged my drive, plugged it back in. Nothing. Same thing, did it multiple times, unplugged it from the cord, I rebooted my computer. Nothing happened. But I'll tell you, I was saved by my favorite tool in the world, which is called Backblaze, which backs up all of my data onto a cloud, and I was able to restore the data that I needed to send to my client to another external drive that I have and do it within the next couple hours. It was actually a few terabytes, right, because my drive... I put everything, Tom, and I think we can talk about this—I have, since I worked in technology, I put everything that's important on an external drive, and that drive gets backed up multiple times. And that way I don't ever have to worry about like, "Oh gosh, if I need to update my..." I never put anything important on my main computer drive, always on an external drive that gets backed up. 02:36 - Tom (Guest) Because it's easy. I think this leads into an extremely important lesson that we could just start right off with. For all you BOSSES out there: do not be 100% cloud-dependent with your data, and do not be 100% external hard drive or internal hard drive-dependent with your data. But back them up, back them up. 02:54 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Make sure that they are backing each other up. 02:57 - Tom (Guest) What I have is I have Norton 360, which is generally... Norton is known for its antivirus software, and Norton 360 does that. But what it also does is it backs up my hard drive every single day up to one terabyte. And, like you, I have very little actual data on the hard drive of my desktop computer itself. I also use Google Drive's Google Workspace. 03:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) If you have a Gmail account or a Gmail address. 03:23 - Anne (Host) Same thing. Yep, you can use Dropbox as well. 03:25 - Tom (Guest) Yep, you can use Dropbox as well. 03:27 You can use OneDrive, you could use Box, you could use CrashPlan, you could use Carbonite. I used to use Carbonite for a very long time, and I was very happy with it, and then I realized I had Carbonite, Box, Dropbox, OneDrive, and Google Drive, and I realized it was so redundant. So my primary cloud-based data storage is a combination of Google Drive with Google Workspace and Norton 360, and I also have an external hard drive which I will actually occasionally hook up and physically back everything up and put it away. So I've got like three—two cloud-based and one drive external hard drive-based—home base for all of my data, in case something bad happens with one or, heaven forbid, two of them. 04:17 - Anne (Host) It's been a lifesaver, I'll tell you what. So Backblaze—just my favorite. By the way, I'm an affiliate, guys. I'm going to put a link for you. What I love about Backblaze is that basically, you just set it to work and it works seamlessly in the background. It will always... it backs up every minute of the day. It backs up, and it doesn't take a lot of resources on your system. So every time you create a file, it's just going to be backing it up to the cloud, and then you just... it's really simple. You go to your account on the cloud and you restore it, and it basically just keeps the most current backup. 04:45 You can keep different versions of backups. If you have version one of a file, version two of a file, you can keep all the versions of your backups for up to a year. It just really depends, and it is super reasonable. I think I pay $99 a year. So I use that in combination with Dropbox. I have like three terabytes for Dropbox, and I keep all my student data on that, and that way I can share my drive with my clients and my students, and that is my Dropbox, which is always backed up, so I don't have to worry about that data either. So I use the combination, and I also have a Google Drive. So those are my cloud-based: Dropbox and Google, and then my Backblaze, which is my backup for all my drives that I have on my computer, and I only put important stuff on my external drives. That way if I need to update my operating system, I don't have to worry about restoring all the other data onto that main drive on my computer. 05:36 And you can... even with Backblaze, you can order, like I had, a four-terabyte drive or a five-terabyte drive. If the entire drive goes—which drives do, I mean, they have a lifespan—you can actually just order a replacement drive, and it ships out within two to three days. It's an encrypted drive that you can actually just plug in via USB, and then ultimately you have that mirrored drive so that you don't have to restore the data through the cloud, because sometimes if you do have five terabytes of data—let's say if you have video—it could take an awfully long time to restore through the online version, and so you can just order a drive, and I've done that two times. So that's one of my favorite tools, Tom. So what are some of your other favorite tools that you have to run your business? 06:18 - Tom (Guest) Like I said, I do use Google Drive regularly. If you have a Gmail account, I think you already get 15 gigs of storage space, but with Google Workspace, you get two terabytes for like $15 a month, and I also use it to synchronize my email. Actually, that's really exciting—the ability to synchronize my email in Gmail with my phone, my desktop, my laptop, and my tablet, so I can access my emails anytime I want. But other tools that I've really been enjoying lately: this is something that comes up a lot. Voice actors of all parts of their journey desperately want to get their hands on the finished product, which is, most of the time, the finished video of a voiceover that they did, most of the time commercials or explainer videos or things like that. 07:07 So I have a two-pronged system. Number one, I go to YouTube once a month. I'm on YouTube every day, who am I kidding? But I mean, for this exercise, I go to YouTube, and I have a list of all the voiceover jobs that I did in the previous quarter or previous month, and I look at all the front-facing stuff, all of the commercials and explainers, the things that would be normally exposed to the public—not like the e-learning modules and the internal corporate stuff—stuff that has been published publicly. 07:34 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Published publicly, exactly. 07:34 - Tom (Guest) And then what I'll do is I'll find all of them, find the ones that I can. I will save them to a playlist in YouTube, and I have a playlist for every genre of voiceover that... 07:46 - Anne (Host) I've done. Yeah, me too. 07:46 - Tom (Guest) But this is where the tool comes in. I download the YouTube video. There is a specific software that I use called Any Video Converter. We'll put the link down there. It's absolutely free. I think it's just anyvideoconverter.com. And then you download that free software, and all you do is paste the YouTube link in, and then it says, "Do you want audio only, video only, or audio and video?" You download it, and it downloads it to your computer, and then you can save it. And this is why this is really important. It's important for two reasons. Number one, a lot of us want to use professional samples of stuff that we've done to add to our demos. Yes, and we want to use it to add to our online casting site profiles, our sample lists and playlists on Voice123 and other places. But here's the other thing: YouTube videos don't necessarily stay there forever. 08:45 - Anne (Host) They're not necessarily evergreen. 08:47 - Tom (Guest) I have had multiple videos over the years where I went to go look at it, and it was gone. 08:52 Or it was linked to my website, tomdheere.com, and the video was just not there. There's just gray static, or "this video is no longer there." So what you can do is that if you keep that video by downloading it using Any Video Converter or any software of your choice, you can then upload it back to your website, right, or maybe even upload it back onto YouTube and continue to have it as part of your portfolio. 09:15 - Anne (Host) I just want to make sure that it's noted that you have permission and that it's public-facing to begin with. So make sure that it's public-facing. Sometimes, if you don't have permission from the company, it's always nice. I mean, I always, as part of my, "Thank you so much, it's been wonderful working with you," I always say, "If you have a link to the final video, I would really appreciate it. I'd love to see the final product. It was so great working with you." But a lot of times people are busy, and that doesn't happen. 09:40 And so, yeah, if it ultimately shows up on a YouTube, then ultimately it's public-facing. 09:45 And then I am assuming that it's public-facing, it's public property, and that I can take that Any Video Converter and download it. And, yeah, now you own it; you can put it back up on YouTube if you want. It's a video that's not going to disappear all of a sudden off your website if you happen to embed it. But yeah, that's a great tool, and it's wonderful to be able to show not only your demos but work that you've done, and you want that work to exist. So, yeah, that's a great. 10:08 I love that, Tom, because you actually go and actively seek it out, because sometimes I lose track of the jobs that I do, and then it's like, "Oh darn, I wish I had that job to showcase, right? Here's an example of what my voice sounds like in this particular job," or "here on this website." And I used to actually post the link or embed the YouTube link from their site onto my website, but, you're right, it disappeared from mine after a while. Sometimes people just don't keep those videos up on their YouTube, so having it for your own is a wonderful, wonderful tool, and that Any Video Converter, yeah. 10:42 - Tom (Guest) Definitely, and that task is on my monthly action plan. 10:46 - Anne (Host) It is one of the things that... 10:47 - Tom (Guest) I do every single month. It's in the tools section of my monthly action plan: "Download new YouTube videos and save to playlists." 10:54 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Wow. 10:55 - Tom (Guest) This also applies to Vimeo as well, so you could also look around, because there are some clients that prefer Vimeo over YouTube, which—it's a great platform. I love Vimeo, but YouTube just has so much more SEO clout. Well... 11:06 - Anne (Host) I love Vimeo because I use Vimeo. I have a Vimeo account as well as YouTube, but I have a Vimeo account because if you want to password protect, you can do that on Vimeo. So that helps me when I do my VO Peeps events, and people are requiring access to the videos. I password protect them. 11:23 - Tom (Guest) Well, I'll bounce the ball back to you, Anne: what is another tool that you enjoy using? 11:27 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, there are so many. Let's see. I'm going to say I'm going to go the AI route, and I'm going to say I have a couple of AI tools that really, really help me in crafting emails to my clients that are super fast and efficient. And they help me just... First of all, I have a professional version of ChatGPT, which I think is well worth the 20 bucks a month, and I also have CopyAI, which I pay for on a yearly basis. It uses ChatGPT, but it also has different features kind of built in. So, depending on what I want to do, it has a little more marketing aspect to it, so it can create more marketing funnels for me. If I want ChatGPT, I can ask it just about anything. But again, both of them are the premium versions, and I use it for—gosh, I use it for anything. 12:09 Sometimes I'll just ask questions and I'll say, "Hey, craft an email response to my client that includes the following points," or I'll have started a particular email, and I'm like, "You know, I just don't have the time to word this professionally." So let me cut and paste it, and I'll say, "Just reword this professionally and in my voice." So you can train your little ChatGPT AI bot to have your voice in it. And so I use it constantly for crafting professional emails and basically doing a lot of web writing that I might have to do. If I want to craft my bio, I need to create a nice bulleted course list here and that sort of thing. I'll say, "Go to this webpage and tell me what are the major points, what are the summary points of this particular course that I can then utilize." So it's just training your robot, like training your dragon, is really a wonderful thing. 12:58 - Tom (Guest) Cool. Well, I also have two favorite AI tools, both of which are parallel to the ones that you just recommended. You're a paid user for ChatGPT. I am a Gemini fan myself. Gemini is the Google-powered version of OpenAI's ChatGPT. You do need to pay for it, but if you have a Google Workspace account, like I just talked about a few minutes ago, that I use to get more drive space and synchronize all of my emails and all of my devices, you also get access to Gemini. I've been using it very heavily for the past three, four months or so. And what do you use it for? What sorts of things? I use it professionally and personally. I ask it all kinds of questions, looking for statistics or data, potential voiceover leads. And what happened was, a few months ago, I'm here in New York City. I was invited by a Google Wix co-production talking about Google Gemini and then how to use Google Gemini to write blogs in Wix—not necessarily write them for you, but like to just kind of help you come up with ideas. 14:08 Spark ideas, maybe give you some outlines, and then you can put your own creative flair and writing style in it. I will give a quick AI prompt tip. Two things. Number one, always tell your AI who they are before you ask the question. So like, if you have a question about social media, you always say, "You are a social media expert." Then you ask the question. I don't pretend to understand how any of this works, but I do know that if you kind of put them in the, for lack of a better term, "frame of mind," it will give you more accurate answers. 14:43 - Anne (Host) Give me a more professional answer, give me a friendlier, give me more conversational. Yeah, you can absolutely, and... 14:50 - Tom (Guest) Oh, I refine them constantly. What's nice about Gemini is on the left side, it has a link to every single conversation that I've had, and I refer back to them regularly. The other tip is always say please and thank you. For some weird reason, they have noticed that—and this may be a little scary—that the nicer you are when you're asking questions, the better quality you're going to get. I know that's a little creepy. 15:15 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, you don't want to be angry. I mean, a lot of times people are like, "No, that's the wrong, you stupid idiot." You know what I mean. You should not talk to Alexa that way either, by the way. Just saying. 15:24 - Tom (Guest) Right, no, you don't want to do that either. 15:25 - Anne (Host) No, because you want them to treat you right. 15:57 - Tom (Guest) I believe there are different tiers, like there are with a lot of these programs. I just started my affiliate partnership with them, so I'm exploring all the wonderful things that it can do, but Warmy.io—that's my other favorite AI tool. Wow. 16:07 - Anne (Host) I've got one more. 16:08 - Tom (Guest) I've got one more that I use, and that's Podium. For a long time... 16:11 - Anne (Host) I've used Podium for a good year or two now, I think. Podium takes my VO BOSS podcasts and it crafts out my notes, it crafts out my show notes, it crafts out takeaways, and I found that that works the best. I mean, I can put anything into ChatGPT, but the cool thing about Podium is I can feed it an MP3. So I can take a final MP3 of my episode and I can say, "Craft out 10 takeaways from this." And ultimately I do have to go through everything. I think it's always advisable, no matter what. 16:39 If you're working with AI, you always have to go through it. You always need the human touch, right? You need to like... sometimes it'll come up with some weird things, but for the most part, it does the best summaries, and it's the only one that I have that will take an MP3 or a video and transcribe it, and then it can create a blog out of it as well, which is super powerful, because once you can get from there to the blog, then you can tweak the blog. So it really has done a lot to help me. And so that's Podium, and yes, I'm an affiliate of Podium too. 17:08 So, guys, BOSSES out there, if you find tools that you like, you can always create a little affiliate membership with that, because, I mean, even if it's a few cents a month, it's a few cents a month, and I have people who follow me that I don't steer them wrong. I'm not going to be an affiliate of a product that I don't love and that I wouldn't recommend. And so that's the way I really feel that I've gotten people who follow me that trust my recommendations and these tools that Tom and I love. I mean, we recommend them wholeheartedly. It's not something because affiliate memberships don't, I don't think, make you enough money to... you know. I mean, I'm not just going to sign up for everything and become an affiliate. 17:42 It's only going to be the stuff that I absolutely love and the stuff that I'm going to talk about. And I actually got a little key fob the other day so that people can scan the key fob, and I can become an affiliate of that, so that they can scan the key fob and go get all my contact information, go to every website that I have, and it's really a lot of fun, and I'll be testing that out at VO Atlanta, so that's going to be really cool too. So all these tools that Tom and I are talking about are stuff that we've tested and stuff that we recommend. And so, BOSSES, that's another part of your income journey really, is thinking about products you love and maybe thinking about becoming affiliates of them. Any other tools, Tom, and I've got one more that I'm going to talk about that I love. 18:21 - Tom (Guest) It's funny because I wanted to... 18:23 - Anne (Host) It might be the same one. 18:23 - Tom (Guest) Well, I wanted to say that we are recording this right now using a fabulous tool called Riverside. Yes, and I've been guest hosting on the VO BOSS for a couple of years now, and she's been using Riverside, and I think it's a fantastic program. The one that I use when I have guests, when I am doing recorded video chats, is I use StreamYard. 18:43 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) They're both very similar. 18:44 - Tom (Guest) They have their own sets of bells and whistles. Both of them are fantastic. So if you're looking to start a podcast or if you just want to record conversations, Riverside or StreamYard—both of them are fantastic. 18:55 - Anne (Host) And here's one that I think we both have in common, Tom, I know that you use it, and it is... it is my graphic wonder, Canva. 19:03 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Ah, Canva! I love Canva. 19:04 - Anne (Host) Canva changed the game, I'll tell you what. And I'm not saying that I'm a graphic artist, because nothing would ever replace my web designer, because my web designer is an amazing graphic artist. There's something about being able to see and visualize graphics and where they go and putting them together and making them look good. But if you're just a beginner and you need to do a few social media graphics, you need to do certain things like remove a background. You cannot go wrong with Canva. I've been using Canva for years. It is an absolute favorite tool of mine. 19:33 - Tom (Guest) I use it constantly. I mean, for those of you who have watched any of my how-to videos or have been in a workshop with me where I'm doing a presentation, I use Canva, I'm pretty sure. 19:43 - Anne (Host) Anne, you also have the... 19:44 - Anne (Host) Canva Pro. You have the paid version, Canva Pro. I do. 19:48 - Tom (Guest) So do I. I mean, it's got so many functions. You'd be shocked at the amount of things that it can make. I mean, I primarily use it for my how-to videos and presentations, but I also use it for making thumbnails for my YouTube videos. 20:01 - Anne (Host) Social media graphics. 20:03 - Tom (Guest) Yep, it's got a great library of content, and you can upload all of your content as well. 20:07 - Anne (Host) And also, I'm going to give myself one other plug. 20:09 - Tom (Guest) I'm going to give myself one other plug. There are a bunch of apps that you can have called up on the left side of your Canva. There is one which is to add an AI voice to your presentations, and one of my AI voices is one of those voices. So, yes, you could actually click on that. You could have me voicing your content. 20:27 - Anne (Host) Tom, I'm going to add you to my next presentation. I'm going to add Tom Dheere voice to my next presentation. But that's awesome. I love Canva and the Canva Pro. And remember, Tom, back in the day when you were creating, let's say, a website or a social media graphic and you would subscribe to these places where you could buy the rights to the graphics? Because you need to be legal about these things. You can't just be stealing graphics and downloading graphics. Canva has a great—and the Canva Pro version has a great—amount of graphics that you can use that are built within it and licensed. So you don't have to pay for another tool to get your graphics. So you can get professional graphics. If you need, like a studio graphic to put in the background of one of your social media posts, you can download it from Canva, and the license is there, and you're clear. 21:13 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, what's very interesting is that you can just run searches in their library to find graphics and stuff like that. And then, if you have the Canva Pro account—I don't know if you've noticed this, Anne—is when you click on stuff and you use it, it'll say, "You just saved this amount of money." 21:27 - Anne (Host) Oh, yeah, right. 21:28 - Tom (Guest) Right, because if you didn't have a Canva Pro account, you would have had to pay à la carte for all of these graphics, but as part of the Canva annual fee, you can get access to all of those graphics for free, and you are using them legally and lawfully. 21:40 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love knowing that I'm using them legally and lawfully, because that used to be a worry for me. I mean, I used to be like, "Oh my God," and each graphic I would pay. Even sometimes I'd go to those websites. I think I had an Envato Elements account that, you know, I could go and get the graphics and use those for my social media. And it's just nice because it's built into Canva already, and everything that you use these days has AI built into it. 22:04 Guys, there's really not much that I think you're going to be using tool-wise that isn't going to have some sort of AI built into it. So, again, it's one of those things where I know we need to be careful of it for our voices, and we need to make sure that we're getting compensated. Make sure that any tool that you're using that has AI built into it, that you're within the confines of your own ethical thoughts and what you think is right and fair compensation. And, Tom, you're getting paid for that voice that you have in the middle of Canva, so that's good. And so tools that are ethically sourced, right, that are using AI, I think it's just going to be so embedded into a lot of our tools these days that we're not even going to notice anymore, and it's going to be like... you know, I always tell people with Voice over IP, back in the day I used to install Voice over IP phone systems, and people were like, "Oh no, it'll never work." 22:52 But honestly, that's all we use these days. There's not one phone call you make that isn't going over an internet or a network, a data line, and there are no more POTS lines that are installed. Back in the day, they were Plain Old Telephone POTS lines, P-O-T-S. And so nowadays, all of your communication goes over data lines, and that is Voice over IP. Really, same thing with AI. It's going to be embedded in just about everything that we do. So just be careful and be thoughtful. But these tools are something that I can't live without now. I mean, really. 23:23 - Tom (Guest) Me too. I don't know where I'd be without Canva and all the tools we just talked about today. 23:27 - Anne (Host) I don't know where I would be without my Alexa telling me how many ounces are in a tablespoon or how many... you know, when I need to do some simple conversion. I mean, we're talking like everyday life. So yeah, these are just some of our favorite tools. Tom, I'd love to do another episode in a few months from now to see if we've come up with any other favorite tools. 23:44 But I love sharing tech, geeky gadgets, because you're kind of a tech girl. I think we've come up with a really great list, and, guys, we'll list all of that in the show notes for you today. And thank you so much, Tom, for yet another wonderful, enlightening episode. 23:59 - Tom (Guest) Thank you, always glad to be here. 24:01 - Anne (Host) Big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL, which I use every single day, by the way, guys. IPDTL, I use for all of my student communications. I love it. It's wonderful, people can record, it's super easy, and you can find out more at IPDTL.com. Guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. 24:21 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry-revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a3 BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via4 IPDTL.

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and George the Tech unveil a powerful collaboration designed to equip voiceover professionals with essential technical prowess. Their discussion highlights the evolution of VO BOSS to include comprehensive tech support, recognizing that pristine audio and a smoothly running studio are fundamental pillars of your voiceover business success. They introduce the new VIP + Tech membership tiers, which offer direct access to George's expertise through monthly meetups, personalized sound checks, and an innovative AI-powered knowledge base, the "George the Tech Bot." By democratizing access to top-tier technical guidance, Anne and George empower voice actors to overcome studio hurdles, optimize their sound, and ultimately elevate their professional presence, ensuring they can confidently navigate the technical landscape of the voiceover industry.   00:04 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne from VOBOSS here. 00:06 - George (Guest) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VOBOSS VIP membership, now with even more benefits. 00:13 - Anne (Host) So not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP plus tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself. Enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself. 00:27 - George (Guest) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best: voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you. 00:35 - Anne (Host) Join us, guys, at VO Boss and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit VOBOSS.com/VIP-membership to sign up today. 00:46 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent1 today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now2 let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 01:10 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited today to have one of my favorite human beings on the planet here with me, and that is George the Tech, George Whittam. George, thank you so much for being with us today. 01:23 - George (Guest) Oh, it's great to be here. It must be the East Coast vibes or something, you know. We're from the same sort of corner of the country. 01:30 - Anne (Host) I think so. I think so. Gosh, bosses, if you are not familiar with George, you should be, number one. I'm so excited to talk to George today because we have come together in a collaborative effort, so to speak, and we're excited to kind of talk about that and talk about how you can boss up your tech and your audio in your studio and in your business. So, for those people that don't know George, gosh, since 2005, George has dedicated, and in George's bio it says that you've dedicated your career to serving the technical needs of voice actors, podcasters, and recording studio owners. 02:08 Guys, actually, George has dedicated probably his life, not just his career. I mean, since I've been in voiceover, George has helped me umpteen billion times, and he has been the audio engineer technician to the stars, to all of my voiceover heroes. And literally, if you've got a tech issue, George can solve it. And so I'm just excited that he's here to talk to us about things that we can do to boss up our studios and boss up our audio. And in 2017, you launched georgethetech.com, which expanded your business like a boss, from just yourself to an entire team of people which can assist anybody with training, studio design, audio processing, stacks—anything you can think about it. You're a '97 graduate from Virginia Tech, woo-hoo, East Coast, with a bachelor's degree in music and audio technology and a minor in communications, and that's pretty darn awesome, because not only are you a geek, but you can talk to people about it. 03:15 - George (Guest) I can communicate, that's right, that's right. 03:18 - Anne (Host) And gosh, if you haven't ever heard of... well, it was E-Webs and then it was VOBS, the voiceover body shop, George and Dan Leonard. For 13 years now, I've had a podcast for gosh, going on nine now, but 13 years they ran their podcast and video. Actually, what did we call it back then? 03:39 - George (Guest) It was a podcast, but it was a vlog, podcast, live stream, live stream. Yeah, it was all of it. 03:45 - Anne (Host) But all of that amazing content is still on YouTube. And now you are the co-host and producer of the Pro Audio Suite, which is wherever your favorite podcasts are located, right next to VO Boss. So after that long-winded introduction, George, I am so glad to have you. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. 04:10 - George (Guest) Absolutely, and believe it or don't, that was definitely the abridged version. There are very, very long-winded versions of that that I've described on many podcasts if you want to hear more about all of the background. 04:24 - Anne (Host) But yeah, it's just so much. 04:26 - George (Guest) I mean, yeah, you're my people. Voice actors are my people. I love working with creative talent, and I have found that, through a test that I took not so long ago, that I'm exactly split left and right brain. 04:37 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, I'm right down the center. That's why we get along, I'm quite sure, because I feel that I'm left and right brain too, 50-50. 04:44 - George (Guest) Yeah, yeah, so there's this ability to balance those two worlds, and you know, we brand ourselves as performer-friendly techs because we feel we get actors and performers and that we're not here to talk directly to tech engineers. We have helped engineers solve problems, but that's not our main tribe. Our main tribe are creatives, actors, podcasters—well, creators, people that have to deal with technology to do what they do, and we just enjoy working with folks like that. You are our people. 05:18 - Anne (Host) Well, I like being your people. So, George, let's talk a little bit about your business right now, George the Tech, and what it is that you do. And I mean, obviously you serve the voice acting community, but you also serve anybody that has an audio need or a tech need. Tell us a little bit about your business. 05:38 - George (Guest) Yeah, George the Tech is framed around supporting voice actors, and now we've added into that tribe. We've brought in the tent to now really include content creators and podcasters, because we've been dealing with more and more podcast-specific studios. But how we do that is in many different ways, from one-on-one consulting time with me, which is really kind of like—I wouldn't say the first place to start, because it's the most expensive to work with me one-on-one, but because it's going to be always the most expensive to work with the CEO—we have a tremendous number of services at much more friendly price points, down to the most popular and, I would say, best value bang for your buck service, which is called a soundcheck. And so soundchecks are where we listen to the audio. Oh, really, me? I'm still hoarding all the soundchecks. 06:29 I don't let anybody else do the soundchecks. I personally listen to every sample that comes in and I give notes. I'll look at your pictures of your studio. I'll even look at a video of how your room is set up. I want to see you at your microphone. I want a selfie of you at the mic so I know exactly what you're doing with your mic, and I evaluate all of that stuff with you. There we go. Selfies! Need a selfie on the mic, it's really important. Selfie on the mic. 06:53 And I don't mean a selfie like cheesing at the camera like this. I mean, I want you to be on mic and I want you to send me a picture of you at the mic in the position you read your scripts. It's so critical, and I'll look at all that. I'll listen to the audio, and I'll even listen to your processed audio if you do that in the production workflow as well. I'll take all of that and give back my notes about how you're doing and what could be improved, and if everything's great, I'll tell you everything's great, and all that under one price. Great, I'll tell you everything is great, and all that under one price. So that is now something that our members that we're going to talk about are going to get access to, among many other things. So we provide sound checks, and then from there we have more technical services like processing presets. So when you're doing an audition and you want that audio to sound a little more polished, it's the perfect nail polish, it's the French tip, it's just the right smoky eyes. 07:48 - Anne (Host) Now you're talking my language there, George, I love it. Oh my gosh, I must have it now. 07:56 - George (Guest) It's having just the right touch of all those things for the kind of work that you're doing. That's appropriate for the kind of work you're doing. I like to say you don't want to show up in theater makeup for your first date unless you're dating another theater actor. 08:10 But otherwise, you want to show up appropriately, and so these processing settings are very much custom to your voice. They're not cookie cutter, they're not templates. They become a template you can use, but of those templates to your voice, the sound of your room and your studio, and the style and genre of voiceover that you're actually working. So the kind of processing I'll do in an audiobook is going to be very different from the processing I'm going to do on a commercial. So that's what the processing presets are all about. 08:44 - Anne (Host) I love that. I'm going to add to your story here. So back in, I'm going to say 2010, maybe it was, maybe it was 2009. George, my father had built me a studio. I had moved to the West Coast and my father had built me a studio, and at the time we didn't really know anything about what was required in building a good sound studio. So we did what we could and it was passable. But I needed to upgrade and I needed it to sound better, and so I found George, and George paid a visit to me back in Irvine, California, and really helped me to level up my studio with a lot of things. And I ended up after your assessment, and we took your advice and we put everything together, literally. I had engineers that were like, they were like, "Oh my God, your studio sound is just amazing," and I had so many compliments on that studio, which basically was my father's studio. But then it was blessed by George and enhanced by George, it was juiced. 09:47 - George (Guest) It was juiced. 09:48 - Anne (Host) With, like you did, the French tip. So it's like we added acoustic panels, we added a bunch of things. We had, I remember, the studio clouds, and so all those things made my sound so good that I for years after that would have people complimenting me, asking me if I had like a studio brick studio or—because this was before—asking me if I had like a Studio Bricks studio or because this was before. 10:07 - George (Guest) Some fancy brand name. 10:08 - Anne (Host) Yeah, this was actually before those were even a thing. 10:12 And not only did you help me with my physical studio, but you helped me with stacks, and I remember I think I wrote you a testimonial back in the day, like you saved me like 50% of my editing time just by those stacks that you created for me, because I was able to take those and process my audio that I was sending to my clients and literally half of my work was done for me already, like a little bit of EQ, some compression, getting rid of some of the breaths, and that was back in 2010. 10:41 And so literally, George, I still have—like, I have a new studio and I got one more set from you, but literally I used those for years. I was in the same studio, had the same mic, and honestly, like they just worked amazingly well for years. And so they're very, very valuable, those sound checks and the stacks that you created and any sort of help. And it amazed me because, even though you came to see me in Irvine, when I then moved and then created a new studio, you could do everything remotely. I mean, what you can do remotely is really wonderful, like you can listen to somebody's audio and then you can make recommendations based on that. And you said you want selfies of "where's your mic, what does your studio look like," and so, based upon all that, you can actually just do consulting from remote. 11:28 You don't have to actually be on site, although you could be if it was local, right? And I guess, if the client wanted you to just come and do a full-scale like build of studios... yeah, once in a while we do that. 11:39 - George (Guest) Yeah, once in a while it happens. 11:40 - Anne (Host) So I mean, I firsthand have had George for the longest time helping me with my audio, and also back in the day, and this goes into what we're going to be collaborating with. When I started VOPeeps, bosses, I don't know if you've heard of VOPeeps—hopefully you have—but I've run VOPeeps since 2010. And in 2010, I created a networking group that was physical, like people came to my house. 12:03 - George (Guest) Can you imagine? 12:04 - Anne (Host) Yeah, people came to my house for meetups, for meetups, and ultimately first it was just a bunch of voiceover actors and, you know, it was a get-together and we kind of like—we either had a little potluck and then it turned into something a little more extravagant where my husband would start making food and kind of catered it for us, and ultimately it was like-minded people getting together. And then I decided that I wanted to branch out and make it even bigger, and so I started inviting all my heroes, all my VO heroes, and I would interview them in my living room. I would interview mine in the living room, and ultimately people would come to the house and it would be a really cool local networking meetup. 12:44 - George (Guest) I remember helping to figure out some of the tech and stuff to make that work. It was quite an adventure. 12:50 - Anne (Host) I started streaming back in... 12:52 I want to say 2010 for sure, when streaming technology was just beginning, and I had had some experience working in technology from my previous job, and so I first started streaming those meetups live on the internet from my laptop computer on my coffee table with a blue snowball microphone and a little, I think it was a Logitech webcam. But the cool thing was is that I now went from a local meetup to a global meetup. And then, as we grew and I did these gosh, once a month for almost six years, and as we grew, I said, "Who's the person that can help me to really make this stand out and have great audio and stream my networking meetups over the internet?" Well, who better than George? So I hired George to come stream my meetups on the internet and take care of all the video recording and the audio. And it was great because you came with all your equipment and I had equipment. You helped set it up, and gosh, we had a good time, didn't we? We did. 14:00 - George (Guest) We did. It was such great memories. 14:02 - Anne (Host) Yeah, they grew and grew, and so that's pretty much my VO peeps. I have lots of great memories of it being physically in my house, and I think in 2017—was it 2016 or 2017—was when, finally, once a month, it became a lot because they grew. I had up to 55 people in my home that my husband was making themed meals. It was packed. 14:23 - George (Guest) It was sold out all the time. Themed drinks. 14:25 - Anne (Host) We started selling tickets to it, and gosh, we would definitely stream it live. We would have Zoom. We would have people working out via Zoom, and so we would actually have them piped in, piped in. We have Zoom piped in to my TV. 14:40 - George (Guest) It was sophisticated, it really was back in the day. I mean, you know, it was the closest to like having hybrid training where you've got people in the room and you've got people online, all at the same time. Yeah, it was very, very ahead of its time. 14:53 - Anne (Host) All across the globe. And so George was that tech geek that was there to like, put it together and help me. And I'd be like, "I want to do this." And George would be like, "Okay, let's—we can do this, we can do this." And so if you guys need outside of just audio—I mean George, the tech, right—any kind of tech, and I know bosses, as

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble tackle the often-overlooked financial realities of building a successful voiceover career. Their candid conversation reveals that achieving "overnight success" is typically the result of years of dedicated work and strategic sacrifices. They emphasize that time is a crucial financial asset and discuss the importance of making deliberate choices about where to invest it, alongside monetary resources. Anne and Danielle share personal experiences of delaying immediate wants to prioritize long-term business growth, highlighting the need for patience and a willingness to explore various income streams, even those outside one's primary passion. Ultimately, they empower voiceover professionals to take control of their financial journey by making informed sacrifices and defining their own path to sustainable success in the voiceover industry. 00:02 - Speaker 1 (Caller) Hi Anne, this is Jen Keefe from Real Women's Work Podcast. I just wanted to come on and say thank you, thank you, thank you for the series you're doing on AI and voice. I've listened to VO Boss Podcast for a few years now and it's always been informative and helpful, and not only is this series not an exception to that, but it is just the cherry on top. It has been so comforting and helpful to learn about this industry and I just thank you for taking all of the time you must have taken to research and understand, to know what questions to ask so that we're all better informed. It is just awesome, awesome, awesome. I feel excited and confident going forward into the future in the VO industry, all because of this series that you're doing. So thank you.  00:46 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's that season again. Are you feeling that tickle in your throat? Don't let a cold or flu slow you down. Combat your symptoms early with Vocal Immunity Blast, a simple and natural remedy designed to get you back to 100% fast. With certified therapeutic grade oils like lemon to support respiratory function, oregano for immune boosting power and a protective blend that shields against environmental threats, your vocal health is in good hands. Take charge of your health with Vocal Immunity Blast. Visit anganguzza.com to shop. 01:31 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza of.  01:45 VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 01:47 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talk series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to be back with special guest co-host Danielle Famble. Danielle, yay, hey, glad to be back, Danielle, it's been a while.  02:03 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, it has.  02:04 - Anne (Host) And you've been traveling.  02:05 - Danielle (Guest) I have. I have been traveling. Me too, I just got back from the JMC Euro Retreat in Dublin, which was amazing. I went a couple days early to go shopping and had a really great time Speaking of shopping, I really like your shirt.  02:22 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, Well, thank you. I really really resonated with your shirt. Oh my gosh, Well, thank you. I really really resonated with the shirt. I also happen to be traveling in Europe and happen to go back to Amsterdam, which I absolutely love that town, and I saw this in the store no sacrifice, no success and it just had all these really positive, like motivating messages on it and I said, wow, I just really resonate with that and I must have it, and so I bought it and I wanted to wear it it.  02:44 And I said, wow, I just really resonate with that and I must have it. And so I bought it and I wanted to wear it today, and I think there's a message for all of us bosses. No sacrifice no success. Let's talk about sacrificing as it relates to the Money Talk series and financials.  03:00 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, no, that's a huge part of financial success is sacrificing, sacrificing for your business, sacrificing the short term for your financial goals that are probably long term. That's a huge part of it. And I think that on the other side of that sacrifice, as your shirt says there is some level of success, because you need to be able to delay gratification sometimes to be able to get to success in what you're hoping to achieve in life.  03:27 - Anne (Host) Yeah, that's an interesting point that you bring up delaying gratification. You're absolutely right like I want this and I want it now because I feel like it's that kind of a I don't know. I feel like we're in that kind of culture these days where things are coming at us fast and we want things fast and a lot of times success does not come fast and so we need to kind of step it through. I was actually talking to one of my students the other day about like the steps I took to ultimately achieve my overnight success which, as I've said before on the podcast, took how many years.  03:59 I mean it took close to 10 years for that quote unquote overnight success.  04:05 But it took a lot of sacrifices, and not just financial, I mean. I know that this is the money talks, but financial can also mean your time, because your time is in essence money, especially when you're talking about your business.  04:17 - Danielle (Guest) Oh for sure, when you're talking about your business, there's parts of it that you just need to sort of stair step up.  04:23 So, you're probably front loading a lot of the education in the very beginning and that's a lot of time and it could be a lot of money, but it's mostly time intensive. And then from there then you can kind of take what you've been learning in that education phase and then implement it. But if you want to go from new to pro and you want it to happen quickly, if you try to go for like speed, you're going to be missing some things along the way. So the sacrifice is probably going to be sacrificing your time, it's probably going to be sacrificing your money and it's going to be making some difficult decisions. I mean, even with our business.  05:01 When I first started, I wanted a really expensive booth. I wanted the booth that I saw everybody else had on Zoom, and at that time I did not have that booth money. I just didn't. My business was not bringing in that much income and instead of just going after what it is that I wanted immediately, I chose to stair-step it and I chose to sacrifice what I wanted at that moment for the greater good of spending the money on coaching and spending the money on demos and things like that. And through that, for me success has come and I can afford that booth at some point. But now my goals have changed and the booth is not really the main thing that I'm wanting now. I'm wanting more education, maybe buying different mics or computers or peripherals to bring into the booth. So once you delay that, then you can kind of give yourself the time to recalibrate and readjust in your business.  06:00 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that you talked about like you're evolving, like because it does you stair-step it, but then your goals change and so even myself, I mean it's always, I think, an ever-growing, especially if you want to grow your business. Because I find myself I'm looking to diversify and to get into other things. As you know, everybody knows, I'm like a serial entrepreneur, but I like getting into other aspects of the voiceover business or other genres, getting into other aspects of the voiceover business or other genres, and so I've been actually spending a lot of time of which I don't have a ton studying and educating myself and taking classes.  06:31 And it was funny because, like last weekend, I literally I wasn't recording a VO Boss episode which is really odd for me because typically I do that on Saturdays but I found myself spending the entire day learning a new software so that I could see what were the capabilities, how could I implement this in the next step of growing my business. And that required me to sacrifice my entire Saturday and, of course, my happy hour and everybody's like you work so much. But I'm like, honestly, I really believe that doing the work now and getting the education and doing it during the times when I have available, I think it's going to and then commit to what they're going to do to get to those goals and figure out what sacrifices they're willing to make to get to those goals.  07:33 - Danielle (Guest) That's kind of the part of building and growing your business and scaling the business is that you're probably going to be making a lot of turns along the way, and are you okay with that and are you okay with the sacrifices that you're going to need to make in order to achieve those goals? So for you last week it was a sacrifice of time, but that time sacrifice is going to reap huge dividends later on when you know how to use that software. So really was the time sacrifice like that much of a sacrifice for you, or?  08:02 - Anne (Host) Is it something that was?  08:02 - Danielle (Guest) Really just an investment into your future.  08:05 - Anne (Host) And, interestingly enough, it was an investment into software, which I don't anticipate doing myself. I was looking into a new video editing software so I can create more content to get out right, so that I can again, like, get my brand out there. And so will I ultimately be spending all my time creating or editing videos? No, ultimately I'm going to be hiring somebody to direct them, but I want to know enough about this software to be able to intelligently direct them. And I think also, it's something to mention that, like you spoke about in the very beginning, we have to take sacrifices and maybe not get everything that we want immediately. Like our ultimate goal, I think, in voiceover is let's do something that brings us joy and let's make money at that. And ultimately, I think, along the way of achieving that goal, you might have to do things that may not bring you joy but will bring you income while you are trying to achieve that growth.  08:59 So I know for a fact when I was getting into voiceover and I went full time and I think I think I really speak to the people who are like they're part-time, maybe considering full-time, or they're part-time, considering dedicating more time to it that maybe they don't have and they've got a full-time job and they really hate their full-time job and they don't ever want to do anything like it again.  09:19 Well, I'll tell you what those skills are, what you have in order to ultimately, right, possibly, bring income in on a steady basis. So there might be an interim time where you might have to do consulting in something that you're really good at right. That can maybe help people so that you can bring in enough money to continually like reinvest that money into the growth of your career. And so I wanted to just say it may not be immediate gratification, like the society I think is these days, like I know myself, like I want it right away. I'm impatient, but I do believe that those steps to success and financially and when we talk financially we talk investing your money, having the money to invest as well as your time, which ends up turning into being money for you- oh, for sure, I always think that you need to follow the dollars and do whatever you can to get to your next dollar in business.  10:14 - Danielle (Guest) And if that is education, then follow that. If that is consulting, so that you can have additional money coming in, so that you can use that to channel into your business, then do it. Figure out how you can bring in resources and revenue so that you can use that to then grow your business. And I've said it before, I'll say it again it is totally okay to have your side hustle be what can fund your main hustle until it's time Like that's totally, totally fine, because there's no glory in being a starving artist.  10:52 I really don't think that that's the way that is going to be a long-term measurement of success for you to sort of take away from your current in the hopes of a possibility of a future when you could be doing things along the way to help like infuse capital into your life and your business to help keep you going for longer.  11:12 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. I mean, when you've got a family that might depend on that income, right, so it becomes more than just I mean really depends on where you're at in your life and who's depending on income coming in to pay a mortgage or to support a family. And so in reality, I'm always when my students are asking me should I go full-time into voiceover and they have a family and children, I'm like, well, you've got to really think about this because you need to be able to secure steady income coming in to be able to support, and it's wonderful and I get it. I mean, I think we all get to this point, or a lot of us get to this point, when we've been in a corporate job for a long time and we just it becomes toxic, we hate it and we're like we just want to do what we love full time.  11:55 Well, that may not be achievable within a day, obviously, or even a week, or even a year, because, as I mentioned before, it took me a good oh, I'm going to say maybe eight years before I really got a return on my investment when I went full-time. And so make sure you have that financial cushion to be able to support whatever it is that you need to support yourself, other family members, and it doesn't matter if you're an Uber driver or maybe you're taking the skills that you have during your day job and creating a side hustle business out of that in order to make the extra income. And I always try to say, well, let's make my side hustle. Something I love to do Doesn't necessarily have to be voiceover, and so I love podcasting, so I'm looking to expand my podcasting, consulting that kind of a thing. So how can I do that effectively? Right, how can I get the message out? And, gosh Danielle, after I figure out, like, how I want to grow, guess what comes next? I've got to market myself.  12:53 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, and there's probably going to be more sacrifice in order to get to where you're going and also the sacrifice is looking at what is and figuring out what is or isn't working. So you're looking at your business, the landscape of your business now, and voiceover is working. The other things that you're doing are working, the podcasting is working, and so you're thinking, all right, well, all of these things are working, what else can I do and how else can I build it? And that's great. But also, if something's not working, then you really should look at that and say, all right, well, do I need to keep going down this path? That isn't working.  13:30 Maybe it is keeping a day job that you don't love and don't feel fulfilled with, but maybe you still need to be bringing in an income because you've got people to support and yourself to support.  13:40 Maybe it's just finding a different job that can help bring in income while you're working toward growing your voiceover business. Maybe there are certain genres that you really like, but you're not making a lot of money in and so maybe it's looking at all right, I do enjoy this particular genre, but I'm making a ton more money in a different genre. Let me keep cultivating that, but have the passion working in this genre that I love. That maybe isn't paying as much. Those kinds of hard questions are really the sacrifices I think that we're talking about here, not necessarily just financial, but understanding that to get to the level of success that you're wanting to get, whatever your measure of success is looking at the decisions that need to be made and making the hard choices and making those sacrifices, be it financial or otherwise, to then get you to where you're trying to go in your version of success.  14:35 - Anne (Host) I love how you brought up the different genres too, because it's something else to look at. When you're doing a genre, there's so many people that want to do, let's say, character voices or animation or promo, and it's something to be said that, while you're working toward that goal right, you can also financially invest yourself and your time into other genres that can be bringing you money in. While that happens and of course, that happens to be one of my specialties happens to be the corporate market, and I'm always trying to explain to people that it may not be the most glamorous and it may not be the one that brings you the most joy. However, when you talk about market share, you've literally got so many opportunities for corporate narration compared to maybe, let's say, animation, because there's only so many animated shows out there. However, I upped my number, I've now researched and my number is now 33.2 million registered companies.  15:28 It used to be 30.4. Now it's 33.2 million companies that are registered with the SBA in the United States, and so that's just a lot of opportunities, a lot of potential opportunities, because you've got those companies that probably have a website and they probably have a YouTube channel and they need a voice at one point or another to be able to talk about those products and services.  15:48 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, that's a really great point, because there's part of this industry that can be purely just economics. It can just purely be about what pays the bills. And then there's other parts of it as actors, but figuring out what it is that you can do that pays the bills and also fills your soul. And it may not be the same thing, but how can you put your time and your energy and your efforts into creating as much money and fulfillment as possible in your day, in your life, in your business?  16:31 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. And it's so funny because I'm always like with corporate narration, people just think it's so boring and a lot of people just think it's so boring and I'm like, wow, I completely don't think that, because to me it's just challenging. It's challenging to be able to find the story in some of the corporate copy. It's not that it's necessarily to me boring, but I love the challenge. As an artist, I love the challenge of where is the story here and how can I tell it in the most interesting way. And also, just again, looking at the absolute size of the market that is out there and also understanding and keeping my eye on all sorts of other things happening in the industry. And so, while I have my eye on that, making sure that if I love being an entrepreneur and I love being a boss, how am I going to continue to bring in money when, let's say, maybe times are slow in the industry, Like there are also slow points in the marketplace Right now? Certain genres I think are busier than ever, like political.  17:33 And of course anybody that's doing commercials for the holidays, right? I mean, they've been busy. But maybe during the holidays there are certain other genres that aren't as busy, right? Maybe corporate narration isn't quite as busy, maybe e-learning is not quite as busy during that time. But understanding the fluctuations in the market and when those happen, for you I have the genre I always want to do character work, and so I'm continually working towards that. But to supplement my financial income, I'm going to do some corporate or I'm going to do some e-learning, or I'm going to do some telephony, whatever that is. And then understanding where the fluctuations are in the marketplace, and so if there is just no work coming in, then invest your time in figuring out how you're going to grow that business. And again, which translates to your time is money.  18:18 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, and that is the measure of entrepreneurship, that is the measure of being the VO boss. That's what it means to look at. Okay, what's going on in the industry, what's going on with the things that I do well or genres that I would like to do well in, and how can I maneuver myself to be able to take advantage of all of it? Maybe not at the same time, but be able to move laterally into and out of genres when they're at their high points, or maybe moving out of something if there's a strike, for example. You know that's happening right now. Or figuring out, like, what's going on in the market and how you can maneuver your business to be the best positioned that it possibly can be. Like that's the name of the game. It's not just about what you do and how you show up in front of your mic. It's really about figuring out how you can position your business to win, no matter what the circumstances are as much as they say.  19:17 - Anne (Host) This is not a competitive industry, because every voice is unique. In reality, I'm competing against myself so that I can continually progress forward and win. I love it that you said win, because, danielle, I'm not competitive at all, right Me either.  19:32 - Danielle (Guest) I'm not competitive at all.  19:34 - Anne (Host) Not at all, but yeah, but really yeah, how can you win? How can you win? And, like you were mentioning earlier, what is your definition of success? Because there are some people that financial is not necessarily the definition of success and I know that we're going to actually have an episode coming up on like determining what is your hourly rate, like what is your hourly worth? Right In trying to determine what's working and what's not. How are you determining? Okay, I'm spending an hour learning this and what is that time worth? Versus if I get a commercial, I can make this amount of money. How does that translate into my hourly rate? If I do a corporate narration and I get paid once, how does that translate into my hourly rate? If I do a corporate narration and I get paid once, how does that translate? So you can kind of decide how you can move forward in your business and what you should work on, maybe what you should focus on or what goals you can set for the next level.  20:24 - Danielle (Guest) For sure I love that.  20:25 I think, then, that also brings a lot of ability to the individual voice actor to be the person who is choosing what winning and success looks like, and it's got nothing to do with what you're seeing in these Facebook groups or how other people are running their business.  20:40 It's got everything to do with what you have chosen, what you've decided, and it gives you something to do. I feel like sometimes it feels like so many things are out of your control. When it comes to running a business, when it comes to being a VO boss, it really is like, okay, well, I did this audition, did someone choose it or not? Have I been chosen? Are all these people, these gatekeepers out there? Is it working in my favor or not? But when you have something that you personally can do and you can take ownership of how you are running your business, it's empowering and really what you were just talking about is the individual business owner and entrepreneur and VO boss being able to empower themselves and choose what is your definition of success and what can you do to make sure that you get there. And then it's got nothing to do with anyone else choosing you or not choosing you. It's got everything to do with what you've done to make yourself the most successful that you can possibly be.  21:38 - Anne (Host) I love that. I feel like that could be a completely separate episode too, talking about what is it that you own, right? What is it that you own? There are things that we don't control, like do we get picked, do I get feedback? And that's the stuff I think a lot of voice actors get preoccupied with, like oh okay, so why am I not getting picked? Or I audition, but I never hear back, and so they spend all their time worrying about that.  22:02 But I think what you said is just absolutely on point, like what is it that you can do to control right? That you take control of what it is that you can control and that's going to be what moves you forward and that's what's going to keep you, I'm going to say, out of the mindset of self-sabotage or imposter syndrome. And so I can't control whether somebody picks me or not necessarily for my audition, because there are so many elements that aren't in my control. But I can control my performance. I can control how good I am right. I can control my performance. I can control how good I am right. I can control getting coaching if I need more. I can control marketing in my business, right. I can control researching what's happening and what trends are happening now. So those are things I can do.  22:44 - Danielle (Guest) You can control your audio quality. You can control how much money you're saving and reinvesting in your business. You can control who you work with. You can say no to working with certain clients and certain jobs if it doesn't serve you or the rate doesn't serve you or the subject matter does not serve you. There are so many things that are in your control that owning that and really living in the peace of the ownership of that really can be what helps you feel like you're actually doing a little bit more every single day to be the VO boss that you ultimately want to be.  23:20 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and your mention of how empowering that is, I mean that is so empowering. I mean I know that, me the control freak. Maybe that's why I'm a serial entrepreneur, I have no idea because I can control that, I can control the education, I can control the direction that I'm moving and if it's not necessarily moving the way I want it to or expect it to, I can move it again and I can change it again. And so that keeps me the control freak, which it can be a good thing, it can also be a bad thing, but I think for me, I utilize that personality trait that I have of always wanting to have control in a positive way to help me grow and then still understanding that I have these things under my control and then understanding, almost more importantly, what it is that is not under my control and not allowing that to affect me in any way in terms of my mental state.  24:06 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.  24:09 - Anne (Host) Wow, what a great conversation. So yeah guys, no sacrifice, no success. I am a big believer in really taking the ownership, making the sacrifices that you need, and that sacrifice doesn't necessarily need to be money. It could be your time, your dedication, your effort, your spirit, right, all of that. Whatever, it takes that kind of go-get-em sort of boss attitude that just goes for it and just tries things. If it doesn't work, try it another way, right, and really tries not to allow any of that to get in the way, or even yourself to get in the way.  24:45 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, I love it.  24:45 - Anne (Host) Danielle, I love it. Great, great conversation. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTL.com and, guys, you have an amazing week. Go out there and make those sacrifices, because we know you guys are going to be great successes. So have a good one, guys, and we'll see you next week. See you later, bye.  25:13 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides delve into the expanding role of on-camera presence for voice actors. Their conversation highlights how versatility across different media is increasingly vital in the entertainment industry. They explore the shift from on-camera work being a side hustle to becoming a fundamental aspect of a successful voiceover career. Anne and Lau emphasize the power of authentic connection, both vocally and visually, and discuss the importance of building supportive online communities. They also touch on practical aspects of self-presentation, including beauty, fashion, and the impact of confidence, ultimately encouraging voice actors to embrace their full presence to thrive professionally and personally.   00:02 - Anne (Host) Hey, bosses want to be that well-rounded talent that's always in demand. I offer coaching in a variety of genres, including commercials that grab attention, medical narrations that educate, corporate scripts that inspire and e-learning modules that engage. Find out more at anganguzza.com.  00:24 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:43 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I am here with my lovely host co-host. I don't know Host and co-host. Look at you, Lau, I called you my host.  00:57 - Lau (Guest) I could be called first things. I'll tell you what, right yeah.  01:01 - Anne (Host) I'm here with my lovely co-host, Lau Lapides. So wonderful to see you. It's been a little bit it has.  01:08 - Lau (Guest) It's awesome to be back. I'm excited 2025.  01:11 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I apologize. I was a little bit late, Lau, because, as you know, I had to do the hair and the makeup because we do video things now I'm so glad.  01:20 - Lau (Guest) I'm so glad you finally took the time to look appropriate. I'm so glad.  01:22 - Anne (Host) I'm so glad you finally took the time to look appropriate for camera. I'm always such a slob on camera, oh we're divas.  01:27 - Lau (Guest) You know that we're divas, we're fashionistas.  01:31 - Anne (Host) Well, it did take us five minutes prior to pressing record to finish putting our lipstick on. I think what's so interesting, Lau, is that there's like all sorts of parallel careers with on-camera and influencer marketing that can complement your voice acting career.  01:50 - Lau (Guest) And that is amazing because I never thought of it and I know a lot of listeners may not have thought of it, but you're actually involved with it and this is like something we have to talk about today is your on-camera appeal as a voiceover talent. I think it's been a long time that we haven't really faced that. No pun intended, we really have to face our face.  02:12 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I mean, I agree and I'll tell you what I know.  02:15 We had an episode prior to this where we talked about on-camera and how it was a great additional side hustle, but not really, it's not even really a side hustle, right, there's a lot of agents out there that really look for people that can be on camera as well as do the voice acting, and I think that, besides the traditional on camera, slash, theater, slash voice acting, I think there's also this whole other world of I hate to say, influencer marketing, but there's essentially your presence online that can help to get you and your brand known, and some of it may be influencer, some of it just may be.  02:54 You're creating those videos that other people see, and I'm kind of for this year, because social media is a little bit chaotic and I know there's a lot of people who are kind of fleeing social media, but I think that at some point here's my prediction right my prediction is that people will still form those safe communities, and those safe communities because we've been globally connecting with one another, especially in our industry, right, because we don't have an office, we all go into and meet and talk by the water cooler.  03:23 We are all online, and so I think we're all going to be in our communities wherever they may be, whatever platform they may be, and maybe not even on a platform, maybe just our own Zoom meetings, our Zoom water coolers where we can work with one another and talk with one another and also work with our clients and potential clients, and so I think it's important to talk about what's involved in kind of preparing yourself for this, because for so many years there have been people who want to be voice actors have always thought, well, I don't want to be on camera and that's why I want to be behind the mic, and that's what I love about that. But I think that we really need to kind of open our minds to thinking about our on-camera presence.  04:04 - Lau (Guest) Gosh, there's just so much to unpack about what you just said. We're going to break that up into segments. I think the first one is, of course, as an agent. The first thing I'm thinking about is and I just work with voiceover talent but I'm thinking about do you do on-camera work? Do you also do on-camera work? Because whether you're facing a boutique agency or you're up for representation in one of the bigger hubs, that's one of the first things on their mind is what do you do across the board? Do you do print work? Do you do modeling? Do you do on-camera ads? Do you do, of course, voiceover?  04:36 No longer are we compartmentalized into just being a voiceover talent. Now we're going to work with clients and reps that really want to know wow, could you be the face of this product, like you are? Could you be the model for what we're putting out there? And I'm being unafraid because I hear oftentimes and I know you do too oh, I got a face for radio and you know it isn't even funny anymore, because it's far from truth, it's far from accurate. We don't want you hiding behind a microphone. We don't want to not see you, we want to see you.  05:09 - Anne (Host) Yeah, it also plays into again, guys. I know that, like I said, we covered a lot of this in another episode, but I think it's really relevant and timely that we talk about it again today, because you know, we're talking about people wanting, needing that human connection right Again. We've got chaos right now, social media division everywhere and I think that human connection with like minds and I think that that's so important, that we establish that and on camera, helps that. It totally helps that, that we are representing ourselves as the human beings who have a voice, and not just a voice but a face as well, and we're real. We're real and we want that real connection.  05:53 - Lau (Guest) And we know that in the entertainment industry, seven out of ten jobs are going to go to real people, real looking people, real sounding people, real, authentic personalities Like. We know this for a fact. If you don't believe us, turn on media, go to a movie, listen to the radio, you'll hear what we mean. Right, we just don't hear as many announcers. We don't see as many announcers unless we watch the Super Bowl. So we really want to kind of be aware that, as real people, we're getting a lot more work these days. Real people were getting a lot more work. These days. They're super gorgeous, super model, super of what we think we should be on camera. But that's not accurate. For what today's market?  06:32 - Anne (Host)  Exactly and like even though we kind of were kidding around Lau and talking about putting our lipstick on for you know, for five minutes, that for me it's something that I love, that for me, five minutes, that for me, it's something that I I love, that For me, that's something that I am so passionate about. For myself, anyways, it's certainly not a requirement. I mean, my gosh, look at the celebrities out there that are beautiful without makeup, without the filters. I mean, that's a whole vibe, that's a whole thing.  06:59 So it's not necessarily, guys, that you have to put makeup on it's all about representing yourself and who you are, and I happen to find a very creative artistry in makeup. It's like a newfound passion of mine after so long of when I was behind the mic and not necessarily going out so much, where I didn't really think about it, but now it's like you know what, let me just get a little zhuzhed up for the camera, and I find that I really enjoy it. However, one thing that I have to say, and this is because, guys, I am dabbling a little bit in influencer marketing. I mean, I don't like to call myself an influencer, but I do work with a few brands where I will talk about the brands and put myself on camera and display the product and tell people what I think about that product, and so there's a certain presence and I have to prepare for that. That is something that doesn't come. I'd like to say, it came naturally to me, but there's practice involved and there's preparation time involved in that.  07:58 And it's funny because I do a lot of things Lau and this is like yet another thing on my plate and people are like, well, what are you influencing now? And I'm like, well, not really, I'm just basically doing something I'm passionate about and, yeah, I'm getting paid. I mean, hey, if I can get paid for it, that would be fabulous. And so I am working with a few select brands that I love, and so, because I can be real and human and tell people how much I love them, I can get a little kickback. It's like affiliate marketing. I'm very much on board with that. So I've been doing that and I'm excited to say that I'm on a couple different platforms now. And no, I'm not giving up voice acting. No, I'm not giving up my coaching or demo production business, but it's something I do on the weekends. But Lau, it takes me, like for me to get ready before I present on camera. I mean, it's an event.  08:44 This hair is an event.  08:46 People that have seen me at VO Atlanta. Know, I mean, I love hiring makeup and hair for VIO Atlanta. For me it's like going to the spa, but it is an event, so you have to really put your time in and it's also a different way of marketing yourself. And so there's a whole different world, a whole different way of doing it, and I have to educate myself on how to do that.  09:05 - Lau (Guest) And I'll tell you, you do this brilliantly. I think you need to move yourself forward, whether you're a male or a female, in a very unapologetic way. So if that is part of your jam, and that's what you do, and that's what you love, or that's what you want to get into the fashionista side of our industry, then go for it. There shouldn't be any explanation.  09:25 There shouldn't be any exposition about why you're doing it, or are you leaving, right? You just love it, right? So that's how we're motivating people to be thinking about this. I also want to talk about Annie. I want to talk about the regular people, the real people who get up, they get into their booth, they're behind their mic all day.  09:43 - Anne (Host) I'm a regular person.  09:45 - Lau (Guest) But I mean someone who authentically does not want to be in front of the camera. They don't like dressing up, they don't want to put on makeup. I get that.  10:01 That's probably most people to be honest with you and I'll tell you something. But that's also very real and very engaging and very like. It's like reality TV. Yes, I just want to say a shout out to those people because we love you, we appreciate you, we do. All we're saying is show up as the best you that you can put forward. And if you we just had a conversation about this last night In corporate it's very much the same way.  10:18 If you have a meeting in corporate on WebEx, half the people show up. They don't even turn their videos on in, they don't Show up. Turn on your video, Feel good about the way you look, Feel good about how you're presenting, Own your little square Right. Or if you're going into an office, come in and command the space and feel at home. Feel good about that. That's going to change your physical presence, right. And it's amazing when we look at actors, especially on-camera actors, and we say this actor isn't a particularly aesthetically beautiful person. But boy, are they sexy. Yeah, right, why are they so sexy? In fact, Hollywood always had a name for that. They call it sexy ugly people.  11:01 - Anne (Host) Because they have a confidence.  11:03 - Lau (Guest) They were just real people, regular people, but they were so confident. This is me, you know, yeah absolutely yeah, and they just come in and be like, yeah, this is me and that's you, and I'm excited, we're here, right, let's do some stuff. And that is the beauty of the mind, right? The aesthetics of the spirit that is coming along along with your gorgeous makeup color and your hair, and whatever you choose to do to embellish whether you do that or not, it's got to come from the inside. It's something internal, right?  11:35 - Anne (Host) It's all in how we talk to ourselves, right, it's all in the stories that we tell ourselves. And it's interesting and here's a shameless plug, Lau, I don't know if you're aware, but I did launch a new podcast in January called the Myth of you Self-Awareness in a Digital Age, and we talk about common myths that you might believe about yourself and we talk about the hero's journey. Believe about yourself and we talk about the hero's journey and we talk about how your experiences and how you can learn from your experiences and how you can rewrite your story. You can choose to tell yourself that you're beautiful, whether you feel that or not, and then ultimately really hopefully progress and move forward and be happy, successful.  12:11 All that good stuff and the fact is is that your mind is such a powerful, powerful tool, how you speak to yourself, and we talk a lot about those things. And I'm just so ecstatic to kind of delve more into that area because we've talked about it here as well, because being an actor, being a voice actor, it's very much a mental game, it's very much self-sabotage, the imposter syndrome. All of that is very real and this is such a cool podcast where we really explore that even further. You really need to talk to yourself. And it's funny even in my Pilates class the other day in my head we were doing center and balance class and of course we were on the BOSU ball and I was completely off balance because I feel like I don't know what happened to my balance as I got older.  12:51 But in my head.  12:52 I was going God, I suck at this. And at the time that I said that in my head, I swear to God, my Pilates instructor said now, guys, you may think that you're not good at this, but it's all in what you say in your mind. So remember that if you continually say I suck at something, right, I suck at balance, she goes. Don't say that to yourself. You need to manifest that you're good at balance.  13:13 You're good at center and balance.  13:15 - Lau (Guest) And ultimately your body will follow. And when someone says I don't look good or I'm not excited about getting on camera or I don't really want to offer, you know.  13:26 What are they really saying, like there's a subtext there. Yeah, they're really saying I'm not ready to show up and be present, I'm not ready to put forward who I am, and that's different than what you do. I think a lot of us work so hard and so much, annie, that we self-identify as our work, as our business, which isn't a bad thing, but we lose the sense of the separate self, and a separate self has to feel good about just being and showing up and being present.  13:57 - Anne (Host) Well, how interesting is that? Because when we talk about voice acting right and we're always talking about bringing yourself to your acting, to your read that is really allowing yourself to show up and be present, because, human to human, I connect. Well, I connect to you because of your personality, because of who you are, not because I think you look pretty or I think you sound good. Exactly.  14:15 It's all about bringing your personality, and that's what I try to tell people in. Voice acting it's not so much about how you sound really at all, I mean. How many times can we say that?  14:25 - Lau (Guest) I mean I feel like every coach in the world forevermore will be like voice acting really isn't about how you sound, I mean it's about the connection Right and if you can get out of yourself of your way to the other right to really pay attention and to be curious, to be authentically inquisitive like a child. Like what is that? What is she saying, what is she doing? Why is she? That is what is sexy and attractive and compelling to an audience, is an audience wants to be taken in by curiosity.  15:01 They want to feel that they're interesting. Right, if you can make someone feel that they're interesting because you're interesting. Make someone feel right Make someone feel right.  15:12 - Anne (Host) Isn't that like what it's?  15:12 all about Make someone feel Make someone feel.  15:14 - Lau (Guest) That's the reason why I listen or watch or pay attention to anything, really Okay so, listen, how do we connect this now to this base of your fashion, your branding, your look, your feel? When you get up in the morning, annie, and you think, okay, I'm going to get dressed, I'm going to do my makeup, I'm going to do my hair, I'm going to do my ritual, how do you select, how do you choose where you want to go with that, based on what is going to unfold in your day?  15:40 - Anne (Host) Well, honestly, I mean I just make sure that I get up and do things for myself that are going to make me feel good. Because if I can feel good, right, feel awake, feel healthy, feel alive, yeah, and feel like I've cared for myself, like self-love is not selfish at all, and I've learned that a lot in the past few years, especially because when I had gone through a lot and gained a lot of weight, I'd lost a lot of my confidence. I had a lot of inner dialogue that was not good, and now I said I need to make sure that I make the time to have self-care, because self-care for me really sets the tone, sets the day for everything that happens next, whether I am working with a student, whether I am working with a client. If I feel good about myself, then I can feel good and portray and project that in everything that I do and to everyone that I'm with.  16:38 - Lau (Guest) So, in essence, what you do as your choice, certain things aren't your choice, Like our age, is not our choice. It just happens and that's natural and we move through it. But our choice in everything else we do and how we put ourselves together. Our choice then ricochets and affects other people's choices because their perception of you shifts based on your choice. That's really powerful when you think about that, how much empowerment you have within you, but how much power it has for someone else's potential change for their future, absolutely.  17:14 - Anne (Host) And everything that you say to yourself and do for yourself is a choice. Right, there's always a choice. You always have a choice. Like I just took a great course on happiness. Happiness is a choice. Happiness, joy is a choice. And if you choose joy which I'm always talking about choose joy, do something that makes you joyful, then that will ultimately not only help you but also affect everyone that you are in contact with in every thing that you do, work-wise, personal-wise.  17:42 - Lau (Guest) It's a domino effect.  17:44 It's a domino. So how does someone let's say we take someone who's not accustomed to this way of thinking and just kind of gets up, grabs a coffee and goes to work or does what they need to do, gets up, grabs a coffee and goes to work or does what they need to do? What are some of the steps that we can offer? To revisit and again, I'm not just talking about your business brand, I'm not just talking about your persona in your business, I'm also talking about your personality and persona in your life how do they go about re-envisioning that and making new moves in that direction?  18:17 - Anne (Host) Well, first of all, as we were chatting about earlier, get enough sleep. That's part of self-care right.  18:22 Get enough sleep because.  18:23 I was recently very, very tired I'm kind of recovering from a cold, you can hear that and I had quite a few sleepless nights, while my husband also had a cold and was coughing, and I just was jolted awake multiple times a lot of times because I was worried. But anyways, running on little to no sleep does not help anything when you're trying to start your day out right. So I would say that, and again, it's got to be like how can you start the day? I know a lot of people say this, but I will say honestly what are you grateful for? How can you start your day on a positive note? Because when I was overtired, any little thing could go wrong and I just let it upset me Like I ended up being angry, I ended up crying, I ended up eating more. It was horrible. It was like this cascading sort of trauma.  19:09 - Lau (Guest) Bad choice. Yeah, it was a bad choice fondue.  19:12 - Anne (Host) Yeah, right. So if you can again start the day with figuring out what are you grateful for, what are you happy for? I mean, I know it's been a tough start to the year. I know a lot of people have suffered health issues, it's been chaotic out there in social media and politically, and turbulent in the world, and I think that we need to have our safe spaces where we can still acknowledge and no one can take that away from you by the way.  19:34 - Lau (Guest) I love that, no matter what. I love it.  19:36 - Anne (Host) No one can take your joy away from you. No one can take your inner state right and your choice of joy and gratefulness away from you.  19:46 - Lau (Guest) Yes, yes, amen, sister. And we know this Again my tattoo that says resilience, resilience. So many people live in horrors, yeah, horrors, yeah. So many people live in horrors, horrors, but still make the choice to have joy in their daily life.  19:58 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely Because joy is small.  20:00 - Lau (Guest) It's very, very minute. It's a minutia choice to see things in a joyous way. I'm all for that. I'm going to give a practical and pragmatic one. Sure, okay, in the morning look at your closet. If you have more than one, go to your different closets. Look at your closet and make a concerted effort to choose something you haven't worn in the last six months and it's going to feel very uncomfortable to you because a lot of those clothes in there I guarantee you are for when you get thinner, are for when you feel younger are for that special occasion, or for when you feel younger, or for that special occasion or da-da-da-da-da, but you refuse to get rid of it because you've got some hopes and dreams and memories connected to it.  20:41 - Anne (Host) I have a sparkly shirt, mom, I'm going to challenge you.  20:43 - Lau (Guest) I love it. I'm going to challenge you. I got up and wore the sparkly shirt. Choose one of those. And here's the challenge. If you're not willing to choose it, I need you to give it away.  20:52 - Anne (Host) Oh yeah.  20:53 I need you to give it away I like that Because it's actually holding back your joy.  20:57 - Lau (Guest) It's holding back your beauty. It's holding back your full measure of confidence, Because there's something in there that says oh, someday I'll wear it, Someday I'll look good in it. Someday. It sounds small, doesn't it? But that's like a huge feng shui move. Oh absolutely.  21:11 - Anne (Host) There's like a whole science behind cleaning your closet. A whole science? Yeah, absolutely, and I'm that person that you know. I had clothes of every size in my closet Small for when I lost the weight, and large, and it's funny because after this last round of losing weight, I literally took everything that was sized larger than I was at the time and I said that's it, I'm donating it.  21:35 - Lau (Guest) That's right, let someone else enjoy it, Let someone else live in it and appreciate it and have a life in it, and it's not yours anymore, right?  21:44 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Annie, it's not yours anymore.  21:45 - Lau (Guest) I got another one. Go to anywhere Go to Sephora, go to Mac, go online, go anywhere you like and get a new palette for yourself of color. It could be makeup, it could be wardrobe I love that. It could be hair accessories, it could be props whatever you want it to be. If you're a man, you might choose something that you're going to carry every day. Whatever. What's important about that is it's fresh, it reflects you today and it's hopeful. There's optimism in that right, that little moment of re-envisioning they used to have. They don't have as many now, but they remember Annie, the days where they had a lot of makeover shows Like every show was the makeover show.  22:26 They don't have as many of those anymore, but I mean, the idea of makeover is something I think internally that as human beings we need a couple times a year. We need to make ourselves re-envision, reinvent, so that we don't get static and held down and stale by the past.  22:44 - Anne (Host) Well, we don't want to talk about my makeup collection.  22:48 - Lau (Guest) I kind of do because you have the best makeup. It is large, I kind of do. It is a large collection. Build-a-beans we want to know, annie. It is a large collection.  22:56 - Anne (Host) Still the beans we want to know, annie, it is a large collection which I actually have to go through because they tell you, you know, after six months you need to dispose of your lipsticks your eyeshadows, tell the truth.  23:03 - Lau (Guest) I have a ton. How many?  23:03 - Anne (Host) closets? Do you have full of makeup? Well, I don't have closets, but I have lots of drawers.  23:12 - Lau (Guest) Wait, let me guess I'm going to say six.  23:15 - Anne (Host) At least three, but they're big drawers. They're big, they're like double-sized drawers. Don't believe her, it's got to be six. But there's a point, though, when you can't have too much and you've got to go purge, and so when you purge, that also is a wonderful feng shui cleansing ritual. But I like the fact that I have every color palette in the world, I feel. But then it's funny, because if I watch somebody like a video on Instagram and I see somebody with a different color, I'm like, ooh, I like that color, and so it's something new. It doesn't even have to be a makeup color. It can be like maybe just like a new product, and the product does not have to be expensive. I kid around about my Chanel lipsticks, but honestly, I have found much more cost-effective lipsticks lately in different colors that are amazing.  23:57 - Lau (Guest) Okay, Now I'm going to come from the real world too, because the real world would say, okay, that's fantastic and those are great products, good quality products too. But let's say I don't want them, I can't afford them, they're not for me. I might go over to the dollar store. Oh, absolutely.  24:11 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I might go over to CVS In fact I might go over to CVS.  24:12 - Lau (Guest) In fact I might go online, so there's a lot of places you can get very similar.  24:17 - Anne (Host) Just watch your ingredients right, Make sure you don't have allergies that you're going to break out. Oh, there's a brand that I use. That's very drugstore cheap for facial products I mean. I used to buy it. Can you say what it is? Can you tell us ELF, elf.  24:32 - Lau (Guest) We love Elf.  24:33 - Anne (Host) I mean, it's good stuff, and I've been actually I replaced my entire. I do a lot of makeup from them and I also do skincare as well. I love it. I love it, so I'm not spending a ton of money on it either, and so you don't have to spend a lot of money.  24:47 - Lau (Guest) And again, it doesn't have to be makeup, but if it makes you feel good, absolutely I think you need to move it out too within a certain amount of time, just for, like, cleanliness and bacteria. Yeah, absolutely that, if you are using it within what is it, annie? Six to eight months, or something you're supposed to get rid of it?  25:03 And the other thing, too, is we all know don't double dip, right. So get your one-time applicators whether it's your eyes or very sensitive areas Don't double dip, because then all the bacteria is going into your makeup. These are things like that a lot of folks don't think of, they don't know that are so, so helpful, right what?  25:22 - Anne (Host) other tips? What other? Okay, so what sort of tips can we give for people that are not wanting to wear makeup? Let's say, maybe it's not makeup related, All right, I got one.  25:30 - Lau (Guest) I got one. This is for everyone, but men love this and you're seeing this more with aesthetics lines is taking care of your skin. So at any age, it's really important to hydrate, to exfoliate, to stay out of the sun or get a little vitamin D but not too much and really be careful with your skin, not just because of skin cancer and those types of things, but also because you want to have this inner radiant feel. You don't want to feel like a saddlebag, you don't want to feel like you know you've been worn down.  26:01 - Anne (Host) You know what I?  26:02 - Lau (Guest) mean Like someone's going to sit on you on a horse. You know what I mean. Like you want to feel fresh. You know? One of the things I love is I love humidifiers and a manicure pedicure can help anybody, I don't care who you are.  26:15 - Anne (Host) Thank you, can I? Tell you how many times my husband will be like, hey, do you want to come with me? Just to like keep me company. And oh, he'll be like, well, okay, but I know he enjoys it. Are you kidding me? How can you?  26:25 - Lau (Guest) not, I mean it's incredible, you know it's incredible.  26:31 - Anne (Host) What about a facial Massage?  26:33 - Lau (Guest) Oh my gosh, get a massage.  26:35 - Anne (Host) I am a big believer in massage. I feel like it moves fluids and it gets rid of toxins. Big believer in that.  26:42 - Lau (Guest) Now what about changing out one piece of your wardrobe? Because we all get comfortable. We have comfy clothes. We tend to wear them every day. You and I do similar things with the glasses. We tend to switch out our glasses just because we get tired of wearing the same glasses. It's part of the fashion, it's part of how you feel, it's part of how you look on camera. That's a very simple thing to do. To have I wear cheaters. I'm not into prescription just yet. I need the prescription.  27:10 No, I don't mind saying to people, I'll go to the dollar store, I'll get 10 pairs of glasses. I'll put them in all different places that I know I need to use them. I just went up. I think I'm like a 2.0 right now, or 2.5 or whatever it is, and that's enough for me. I don't need any stronger than that. And that way, every time I put them on, I have a slightly different feel, because it maybe matches the outfit or maybe matches the occasion. Maybe it just feels differently to me.  27:36 - Anne (Host) Right, let's see One there. You go Right here in my two. Wait there you go. I have three different pairs of glasses right here, so like I've got a tortoise shell.  27:46 - Lau (Guest) I love and I love your glasses. I've got black. I love your glasses. One more thing I want to mention too. I think I've got a red in here too. Who doesn't? I mean, red is the best, red is a power color.  27:57 - Anne (Host) This is my original boss glasses. They're gorgeous, Gosh.  28:00 - Lau (Guest) I love them. What about? Let's talk about jewelry for a second.  28:03 - Anne (Host) Oh, I love jewelry.  28:04 - Lau (Guest) So now a lot of folks might say I don't wear jewelry or it's too expensive, it breaks. I'm telling you go costume, go costume, oh God yeah. And think about how that jewelry reflects a piece of who you are. For instance, it might be culturally based, it might be a particular designer that you like, where they're from internationally. It might have a symbol that you care about. It might be a locket with a photo in it.  28:33 - Anne (Host) There's so many ways you can wear jewelry right. Amazon has a lot of great costume jewelry.  28:36 - Lau (Guest) That is reasonably priced. Just saying I wear costume a lot more than I wear the real thing.  28:41 - Anne (Host) A lot of this is Amazon costume yeah.  28:45 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, I wear a lot of beads. I really just am in love with beads because they break. You give it a little wish and a prayer and then you go on. I don't worry about it at all. You just don't worry like you'd worry about a very expensive piece. It's just fun. There's a fun in wearing different watches.  29:02 - Anne (Host) Well, it's kind of like I wear a lot of bling and it's funny because a lot of this is like vintage, a lot of it is my mother's and people will be like, well, wow, you're wearing a lot of diamonds there and I'm like, well, here's the deal. If they're not on my finger, they're in a safe and it doesn't make me feel close to my mother.  29:17 It's not that I'm trying to like say, oh, look at all the diamonds or look how sparkly. I mean I just want to feel close to my mother, and so that to me. I made that decision a few years ago. I said you know what? I am not going to the time, annie, with actors.  29:30 - Lau (Guest) Figure out your hair already. You know what I mean. Like a lot of people, are like well, I'm going white and I don't know if I want to go white. I've got red in it and then I'm like listen, it's fun, it's fashion, you can change it. It shouldn't be something that you feel married to or that you hate.  29:53 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I've never felt married to my hair, although lately, I mean, I have long hair. Should I cut?  29:58 - Lau (Guest) it. Can I take your hair? I love your hair. I'd like to see what I look like with long blonde locks.  30:03 - Anne (Host) But it's funny because I for a very long time had very short hair and so it really just depends. Oh, I didn't know that, oh yeah. When I was growing up I had very short hair. I had kind of like that pixie cut, and so I never had long hair until later on when I decided to let it grow and then it was just the thing, and then sometimes a little bit of it fell out when I was sick.  30:26 So then it grows back. Hair does grow back, that's right.  30:29 However, it is just hair and gosh Lau. There's always a wig, I know Right, there's always a wig. I know Right, there's always a wig.  30:37 - Lau (Guest) As we started this conversation by saying most things are choices, most, not all. My age is not my choice. It is what it is and I work with it, but most other things are my choice. My height is not my choice.  30:49 - Anne (Host) right, right, my voice is not my choice either. No, but as you train your voice. Yes, exactly, is not my choice either.  30:56 - Lau (Guest) No, but as you train your voice and you find different ways you can find different shades of your voice, then that's a nice choice to make is what can I do with my voice and where can it go? That does become a choice. So, wow, this conversation could go on and on, couldn't it?  31:09 - Anne (Host) I feel like we need to have more coffee and chit chat about makeup. I know, Bosses believe it or not, this does have a lot of relevance to you and, even though we were talking about fashion and makeup and influencing it, really, guys, get yourself out there because and show your humanness, show who you are in all aspects of your career. Really, I think that's one thing that's going to keep us moving forward in turbulent times and keep joy in our hearts and really, I mean, help us to maybe even propel our businesses.  31:38 - Lau (Guest) I love it and I'll leave everyone on this. Don't forget to smile, because we use that as a technical tool in voiceover but aside from that, it makes you feel good and younger and connected and happy and joyous, and so that is just your little technical tool for the day. And a lot of people say you look nicer, prettier, more warmer, younger, like all those fun stuff we love to hear just by smiling.  32:04 - Anne (Host) Well, great conversation, Lau. Thank you so much. It was wonderful to get back together with you and I'll give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. A great big shout out to our sponsor IPDTL. You, too, can connect and chit chat about cool things like makeup and hair and fashion and voiceover and on camera things. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  32:30 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes Anne Ganguza and Tom Dheere examine the state of the voiceover industry a few months into 2025. They discuss the direct impact of political and economic events on booking trends and content. The conversation explores how corporate messaging is adapting to cultural and policy changes, the ongoing role of authenticity, and the evolving, perhaps less threatening, landscape of AI. Ultimately, they offer a message of adaptation, education, and resilience for voice actors navigating the current climate.   00:03 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, are you new to voiceover and not sure where to start? Join the VOPeeps VI Peeps membership and get access to over 350 hours of pre-recorded classes, a 15% discount on all VOPeeps, guest workshops and free monthly workouts. This membership is perfect for those wanting to get started in the industry. Find out more at vopeeps.com. Slash join dash now.  00:32 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. And successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today Rock your business like a boss a VO boss.  00:54 - Anne (Host) Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguza. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I'm here with the one and only Mr Tom Dheere. Hello, hello, hello, hi, tom. Oh goodness, tom, we're a few months into 2025, and it's been quite a year so far, wouldn't you say I would say yes, it has.  01:13 Lots of disruption going on in the world in so many ways I would say economically, socially, I mean. It's a new administration and I know that we spoke earlier about setting your goals and starting off on the right foot for 2025 and finding out who you are. Now that we're a few months in, I think we should go back and readdress what's happening. What's going on? How are you feeling about the state of things? Let's maybe open it up with the state of our industry, the voiceover industry. How are you feeling the state of voiceover is a few months into 2025?  01:49 - Tom What's interesting about it, Anne, is that your emotional state when you are watching the news or doom scrolling on social media is going to make you feel a certain way about how everything is going and, depending on your political inclination, you may think everything is going wonderfully or you may think everything is going terribly.  02:12 But then there's that pesky little thing called reality, which is the reality of how many auditions am I getting, how often am I booking, how much money am I making? Where are those voiceover bookings coming from? And, based on what's going on in the world, how much of that is directly or indirectly affecting our individual voiceover businesses?  02:39 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, and because we're service-based right. It affects us very much. Right, it affects us because companies are hiring us to, for the most part, entertain or sell. Right, and, depending on how the companies are feeling and companies are reacting to the issues that are going on in the world today, may have a direct impact on our business.  03:01 - Tom Yeah, so just as a point of reference, let's look at 2024. Our business? Yeah, so just as a point of reference, let's look at 2024. One of the major things that happened that had a huge impact on voiceover work was the presidential election, because, distressingly late in 2024, we weren't sure who was running for president on either side of the aisle, much less who their running mates were. That had a massive effect on corporations when it came to advertising budgets and what the content of the advertising would be. So last summer, 2024, july August there was a huge dip in voiceover work across the board because companies didn't know where to put their money.  03:46 - Anne (Host) Except in political maybe.  03:47 - Tom  Except in political.  03:48 And then when September, October, hit, the political campaigns all went crazy and a lot of the advertising got stopped up because so much ad space was being taken up by political advertising.  04:02 There was a noticeable drop in commercials for television and radio because all the political ad buys were taking up all the real estate. So that is one pretty clear, direct example about how what's going on in the real world affected what was going on in the voiceover industry. So let's look at spring of 2025 of what's going on right now is since there's virtually no political ads, as in campaign ads. I mean, there's a smattering of them here and there and a smattering of issue ads, but I didn't notice any more than there usually has been, which means the void that the political ads left got immediately taken up by commercials, left got immediately taken up by commercials. So there seems to be as much work as there was at any given time in recent voiceover history. I agree with you there. But the question is, what is the content and context of the ads and other voiceover genres and what are the casting demands and what are the performance demands for?  05:09 - Anne (Host)  Now also, we're thinking, I think, right now, commercial broadcast style voiceover. When we think about that, I agree with you that, yes, there's as much work, I think, as there ever has been. However, it's the content that might be changing and the context. You're absolutely right, but also there might be in terms of industrial content, like the industries that are advertising, the industries that are hiring voice talent that may or may not be broadcast. Maybe we're talking e-learning, we're talking corporate, we're talking all the different non-broadcast style voiceover. I think, in that realm where I'm seeing I'm not seeing a drop necessarily, but I'm seeing companies looking very carefully at what they're saying and what they want their brand message to be.  05:54 - Tom Yes.  05:54 - Anne (Host) And that is very key for somebody like myself if I produce demos, to make sure that the content is reflective of the culture and the society of the times.  06:06 - Tom Yes, culture definitely has an influence on advertising broadcast and it also has an influence on internal content, e-learning content, corporate industrial content. Actually, I just realized last year I had narrated an app for a large governmental organization, let's just say, and it was about harassment in the workplace and it was a big project and I did it all and the client was thrilled and I got paid and everything was great. Just a few days ago, the client wrote me and said hey, as a result of all of these executive orders that have been stripping away DEI policies and verbiage, I had to record a decent chunk of it all over again with the new policies and whatever we'll call it, awareness of it in mind.  07:01 - Anne (Host) Yeah, that's the biggest thing that I am seeing and, again, we're not here to be political. However, the two of us need to take a realistic look as to okay, so what are companies having to do to maybe adhere to policies? Because companies that maybe depended on support from the government may have to rewrite some policies. They may have to rethink how they're speaking, and that directly impacts a lot of the corporate work that I've done and also corporate training as well I do. The majority of my work in the e-learning aspect is through corporate.  07:34 I do some educational, which I think that also can be touched, but not in such a direct manner Like, let's say, dei or I'm just trying to think like, what other types of topics and support and safety and environmental. Let's think about environmental changes. Right Before, in a lot of corporate, there was a lot of talk about sustainability, talk about climate change. There was a lot of talk about sustainability, talk about climate change. Companies wanted their audiences to hear that they were supporting these things, because that's what mattered to the majority of people, that they wanted to be on board with them. Now, is that a thing when we're talking about alternative energy right, alternate energy are we going to now be talking about drilling and fracking versus, you know, solar power or those types of things.  08:18 - Tom  Yeah, absolutely, and top-down policies are going to have a trickle-down effect, but also, as in if federal laws are changing or being enacted or being repealed, that's going to have a big effect on a lot of the policies of the companies, because they have to be compliant with local, state and federal law to be able to run their business legally and effectively. So, yeah, it will definitely have a top-down effect. The other thing is economic.  08:47 - Anne (Host) Yes, we always have to look at the economics.  08:49 - Tom You always have to look at the economics of it, and we're still seeing what the full effect of all of these tariffs are going to be on multiple countries, which is going to the majority of economics say, regardless of your political bent, that this is going to create an increase in prices of many, many items. Or some items just may not be available in the United States to be imported and there's some based on reciprocal tariffs. There may be items that the United States manufacturers that cannot be exported.  09:23 - Anne (Host) Well, absolutely, and in terms of hiring, and in terms of hiring. In terms of hiring. I do know that I heard from one of my students, canadian students, that is it favorable now to be an American voicing a Canadian brand at this point?  09:38 Or vice versa, or vice versa, and so we have to think about that or any global brand. So it's interesting to really see. I think a lot of us are so in our studio bubbles that we forget how this impacts the industry, and it impacts our jobs. It can directly affect our jobs, and so it's something that we need to keep our eyes open to. And even though I know a lot of people are like I'm off social media or I you know, it's just sometimes it's difficult for people to watch the news I do think that we have to keep ourselves in touch enough to understand where the trends are going and what things are happening if we want to keep our businesses afloat. And now I guess the next question, Tom, is are we doom-scrolling our voiceover industry at this point? I mean?  10:27 - Tom How do you feel about it? There's a lot of hysteria and confusion and frustration and fear and anger on every social media platform that I have seen. Some of it is a healthy discourse, some of it is fear and hate-mongering. Some of it is a healthy discourse. Some of it is fear and hate mongering. Some of it is a cry for desperation and comfort and commiseration. It's a combination of all of those things.  10:44 So the question is do you shut off all of your social media and go take a walk? Sometimes that's a very, very good idea. But, just exactly to your point, anne, we need to keep an eye on what's going on. Also, all of the social media groups that we're on, they're national or international, so we can keep an eye on what's going on in other parts of the country and other parts of the industry and how it may or may not affect us. Like, for example, I just saw recently a social media post Somebody was talking about well, what happens if there's a recession? How is that going to affect the voiceover industry? Now, I don't know if you remember, but 2008, 2009, the great recession oh, I do. I did not remember and I went back and I looked at my numbers. I didn't notice any effect, noticeable effect, on it.  11:29 When COVID hit March of 2020, there was a noticeable dip, but then April it went right back up and 2020 was a pretty good year for me. But paying attention to things like that and you know, instead of being in your own little bubble, about being terrified about everything, but when you're actually doing your own research off of social media and looking for intelligent discourse on social media to find actual facts, and listening to people who've been around the block a few times, like you or I, who was like, yeah, no, the recession was not a big deal and oh, yeah, covid, things bounced back really quickly and, like I said, last year's, well, the strikes, the SAG-AFTRA strikes, the interactive strike, which is still ongoing, unfortunately, but hopefully they'll be able to fight for their rights and protect all of us. When it comes to AI and other bad practices, the voiceover industry seems to be relatively pliant and relatively resilient. Yes, because, no matter what, people are still trying to sell things. People are still trying to buy things.  12:28 I love that. You said that People still need to teach things. You know what I mean.  12:31 - Anne (Host) I mean, we are a company ourselves, right, we want to stay afloat.  12:34 We're right now looking at and if you aren't, you need to be right Always, you need to be looking at how are you going to stay afloat, how is your business going to continue to show progress, move forward, be successful?  12:46 And it just basically comes down to we're evolving. We're evolving with the times, right, and I think that I agree with you wholeheartedly that I don't think there's going to be any less of a demand for voiceover because, as you mentioned, companies still want to exist, they still want to sell a product, and so part of that sell is including a voice to speak the brand and to communicate that sell to others. And so I don't think it's doom scrolling, but I do believe that we need to educate ourselves on what the trends are, and not just the trends on the style of voiceover, although I think that it's good to understand, like, what's out there? How is that message being told? I always maintain that the best performance trend, the best voiceover performance trend to follow, is just be an actor, be a damn actor, right, because if you're an actor, you evolve, you can evolve and change, just like you need to do with your business.  13:44 And I think that you kind of touched on synthetic voices and AI Again, if we were to talk about how do you feel that that's affecting the industry these days? I can tell you, in my opinion, right now, I think that things are working themselves out, hopefully on a more positive note, and I don't think that the fascination is there for me. I'm not seeing the fascination there with voiceover jobs being stolen by AI. I believe that more of the focus needs to be on let's just protect our voices so that they're not being used without our permission and being developed into a synthetic voice. Or, if we have a synthetic voice, make sure that we're getting compensated for it. What are your thoughts?  14:22 - Tom  I generally agree, because everyone who decided that AI is the devil and decided not to get involved in any level of critical thinking or investigating about it, they have not changed their minds. The people that jumped in with both feet are probably still jumping in with both feet. What I think to your point you're saying is that everybody that wanted to give it a sniff, that wanted to try it out, test the water, has done it not just once, but maybe twice, because ChatGPT rolled out November 2022 and now we're in mid 2025. So I think there's been like At least from my observation, there's been like two rounds of companies giving AI a try. The first one was just to, oh, let's see what this is all about.  15:03 And then some were like, oh, this is great, this is perfect. Others are like, no, this is awful. And then there's others who, a year or so later, is like you know what? It's probably gotten two years better. Let's give it another try. And then same thing happens. Some thought, oh, okay, it's good enough now, or it's not good enough now, or making whatever decision. But yeah, the fervor from the consumer end, I think, has settled.  15:26 I think so too, and I think the terror from the voiceover end I think for the most part is settled. There's still questions about it.  15:33 - Anne (Host) Sure, and we've got great organizations fighting for us as well. Nava has been doing a phenomenal job in that regard, and if you're a business and you're not using AI in some capacity to manage your data, you're missing out. You're missing out on the boat, and we did talk about that previously in an episode, tom, you and I. It's just getting better and better at that, but it's not necessarily getting better at speaking your voice synthetically. But data management, I think, is just leaps and bounds and it's integrated in a lot of the products we're using and you may not even know it. It's kind of like.  16:07 I think I mentioned this to you before Back in the day I installed voice over IP phone systems when they first came out and people just said oh my God, they sucked, They'll never work, They'll never last, and ultimately, that's what we do today. I mean, it's all voice over IP. Everything that we're doing is we're communicating, Our phone lines are over data internet lines and it's just that's what's happening. Now. We have voice over IP and we don't even know it. It's seamless. So I believe that the AI data management is being built in seamlessly into things that we use like Google or I think you're using Google Workspace.  16:36 - Tom  I am using Google Workspace and Google Gemini is my favorite AI, google Gemini.  16:39 - Anne (Host) I have ChatGPT. I have a couple other products that do some automated things for me that are under the ChatGPT, and I continually look for tools that can help me to run my business more efficiently. So I don't think that in the voice realm of things. Oh my God. I just said a company.  16:54 - Tom  Naughty, naughty.  16:54 - Anne (Host) I didn't even know In the voiceover world. I don't know if synthetic voices are quite the terror and the scare that they were in the last couple of years.  17:03 - Tom  I still think the same thing is exactly what you and Andy said on that wonderful narratorlife interview that you did, which you said garbage in, garbage out. Good actors are going to make good AIs, bad actors are going to make bad AI are going to make bad AI. And the relevance gap I still think is growing, of people that are lacking in talent or training storytelling training, that are trying to enter the world of voiceover, are just not going to be able to get in. So I think that still stands.  17:28 - Anne (Host) And everybody I talk to we're talking about. Like anything today, if you want to capture someone's attention, right, marketing, wise, right it's all about authenticity. It's all about authenticity. It's all about give the human aspect to you. Even when I write a newsletter, it's like give somebody that vulnerable part of yourself that talks directly to them and doesn't just try to sell them or doesn't just try to, like, promote things. And give that authenticity. And I really believe that, as humans, that's who we are and that's what we have and that is just our strength. And when we are performing voiceover and we are voice actors, I think the more that we can be authentic in whatever genre we are voicing, the better off we are and the more successful we will be.  18:08 - Tom I agree. I had another thought about. Something that we were talking about a little earlier is that unemployment seems to be rising because of all of these federal layoffs.  18:19 Layoffs, yeah, and then as a result of tariffs.  18:20 if prices are going up, they have to maintain profit margins, so sometimes they need to cut labor. So what's been interesting in voiceover is that, as a result of AI, there has been less of the entry-level, lowest budget voiceover work, which means there's less opportunities for people who are entering the voiceover industry, and that may mean some people are not able to have a sustainable voiceover business model, so they're leaving the voiceover industry. However, if employment does keep going up the way that it does, does that mean more people are going to come back who want?  18:55 - Anne (Host) to give voiceover a shot. Yeah, exactly that was my experience when COVID happened.  19:01 And people, how many of my coaching business, I mean I had like tripled business with people who were using the time to learn voiceover and to get into voiceover and to utilize their voice for something good. I mean, I think that's still like. The desire of most people that get into this industry is they want to use their voice to do something good and, of course, make some money. Sure, that's always a key element to be successful in voiceover business. But what other aspects, tom, have we not covered here in this few months, now that we're in 2025? We've talked about, I mean, really, how dependent our industry is on the economy and the message that is out there, the brand that is out there.  19:50 - Tom Right. Yeah, it's dependent and it's independent at the same time, when we are getting into what seems to be a very interesting year on a sociological, social, cultural, political, economic level, what can we as voice actors do? So what should us bosses do? It's the same answer all the time, anne Right.  20:11 - Anne (Host) What do we do? Keep training, keep learning.  20:13 - Tom Keep growing, keep marketing, keep marketing. Keep following industry trends. Continue to have conversations with fellow voice actors. Continue to have conversations with your current and potential clients. Pay attention to what's going on on social media, but don't get sucked in by it. But pay attention, learn, grow, adapt, evolve and educate Educate yourself and educate each other.  20:33 - Anne (Host) Educate, adapt, evolve. I love that. Educate, adapt, evolve. I think that really should be our mantra for this year Educate, adapt, evolve and I think everything will be absolutely fine in this voiceover industry. And also just one thing that I want to make mention is that during those lean times where you may not be finding work or work slows down, it's always important to kind of go back and listen to other voiceover podcast episodes that I've had with Tom, of course, about your business and how to build your business and be successful, as well, as I've had a money series with Daniel Fambul, which talks about the fact that if times are lean for me or I'm considering investing more in my business, which would mean maybe I'm going to get coaching, maybe I'm going to get a new demo, maybe I'm going to get a new website which, by the way, I've done all those things and I've had to make a lot of investments this year, and so it's important to have the mindset right, the mindset of being willing to invest.  21:32 I think that's important being willing to invest in this career If you love this career and this is what you want to do and you want to grow, having the mindset of being willing to invest, and I, right now, in my own business, I've transitioned over to a new website, I'm doing a lot of new things that are on the scary side of things for me. I mean, I think if you're not scared every day, you're not taking a risk every day. And, by the way, this risk is not just a risk performance-wise or strategy-wise, it is a risk financially-wise, because I'm investing in a part of my business that I want to grow, and so it's not easy and it's scary, but it's something that I believe every boss needs to really take a look at and be willing to take a little bit of a risk. Take a look at and be willing to take a little bit of a risk, and I'm thankful that and, tom, we've talked about this I'm thankful that I have a little bit of a nest egg that I can make these investments yeah.  22:26 - Tom So my new mantra will now be if you're not taking risks, you're not trying, and if you're not scared you're not trying hard enough.  22:33 - Anne (Host) Oh, I like that a lot. Yeah, Tom. So I admit that I'm scared. Are you scared? Are you scared every?  22:39 - Tom  day. Am I conscious? Yes, of course I'm scared.  22:41 - Anne (Host) Yeah, what things scare you? I'm just curious what things scare you in running your business?  22:46 - Tom Well, I mean just as a basic normal, semi-normal neurotic human. I still have my imposter syndrome. I hear you I still have my FOMO.  22:55 I'm still afraid that 30 years later, that clients are just going to be like well we don't just like his face anymore and they're just not going to book me and they come back. They all come back, as in you know, most of them come back for all good reasons and other people don't come back for whatever other reason. 99% of the time has absolutely nothing to do with me. But my biggest fear is the fear of being irrelevant, and I've had a couple of times in my voiceover career where I, as a result of very poor business decision-making, I made myself less relevant.  23:28 The jumping off of Voice123 in 2013 and then being off it for seven years made me less relevant as a voice actor because I wasn't paying attention to what was going on in the industry. I was up my own you-know-what about it and making decisions based on fear, ego, insecurity and arrogance and ignorance.  23:47 - Anne (Host) Oh, my God, I just love that. You just you were so authentic with that. That's really wonderful. I mean, I love that you're sharing that with us because that's something that I think everybody can take and really learn from myself included taking these risks that have not always worked out and, yeah, a lot of it is because I was stubborn. I have a little bit of a stubborn streak. I'll admit to you that mine would be stubborn in feeling like what I was doing was the way and there was not another way to do.  24:18 It was the way and there was not another way to do it. And that stubbornness and not allowing myself to open my eyes, especially when because I hire a team of people right, and trying to do everything myself, thinking I was the only person that could do it, being that kind of a person, that control freak which I am that held me back. It was scary to me. I was scared that if I didn't control it myself, that I would lose control and that I wouldn't be able to grow the business. But quite the opposite happened. After all, that, when I allowed myself to be open to collaborating and working with others and it's one of the reasons why I love to collaborate with you, tom, because there's so much power in collaboration together and that is one of the basis is for when you want to run a strong business. I'll never forget Gary Vaynerchuk said hire people who are better than you to do those things and don't be afraid of that. Don't be scared of that and treat them right, because that's going to help you all grow and move forward.  25:07 - Tom Absolutely Surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you is another mantra that I've heard over the years, and it's really really true.  25:14 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, I love it, tom. Thank you so much. I think that last nugget was the best of all out of this episode. I really love talking with you in these podcasts, so thanks again. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like real bosses. You can find out more at IPDTL.com. Bosses have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  25:41 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes Anne Ganguza and Tolulope Kolade, a leading voice from Nigeria's vibrant voiceover scene, connect to explore the sonic tapestry of Africa's storytelling. They unpack Tolulope experiences building a career and community within a dynamic market, offering a window into the unique challenges and triumphs of voice acting on the continent. Listeners will discover the crucial role of genuine expression in connecting with audiences, gain understanding of the industry's growth in Africa, and appreciate the power of shared narratives across borders. Anne and Tolulope also discuss practical pathways for aspiring voice talent and the evolving nature of the global voice landscape.   00:01 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Anne changed my life a few years ago while coaching me for my commercial demo. Since then, I've been traveling throughout Europe and the UK and I never miss a VO Boss podcast. It's just how I start my Wednesday, no matter what country I'm in. I love that I can stay connected with her and continue to learn about VO even from across the pond. Love you, Anne.  00:23 - Speaker 4 (Ad) Hey guys, it's that season again. Are you feeling that tickle in your throat? Don't let a cold or flu slow you down. Combat your symptoms early with Vocal Immunity Blast, a simple and natural remedy designed to get you back to 100% fast. With certified therapeutic grade oils like lemon to support respiratory function, oregano for immune-boosting power and a protective blend that shields against environmental threats, your vocal health is in good hands. Take charge of your health with Vocal Immunity Blast. Visit anganguza.com to shop.  01:00 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguza.  01:22 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey guys, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and today I am honored to have a very special guest with me today, all the way from Nigeria, Tolulope Kolade, also known as T-Code, which is such a cool, I love that name. He is a Nigerian voiceover artist, podcaster and coach, and a 2024 Sova's Award nominee for Outstanding Commercial Best African Voiceover. As the creator of Nigeria's first voiceover podcast, Everything Voiceover's, the African Perspective, and the creative partner of the Association of African Podcasters and Voice Artists, APVA, T-Code champions the African voiceover industry, mentoring new talents and collaborating with top brands to bring impactful storytelling to life. I love that. I love that so much. T-code, it is so nice to have you on the show. Finally.  02:13 - Tolulope (Guest) Finally, Thank you so much.  02:15 Anne.  02:16 It's been years of listening to you over the seas and I can't express how excited I am right now to share the same podcast with you being a guest. Oh my God, I feel so great.  02:29 - Anne (Host) Well, I'll tell you what. You sent me, oh my gosh, years ago, a really lovely audio testimonial about my podcast. And I just recently if obviously you've been listening to the podcast, you know that I never really did any ads or anything and I finally decided, gosh, I should do some ads for my own podcast for however many years. And so I started featuring some of the audio testimonials from people, and I featured yours and then, all of a sudden, I got flagged in this amazing video that you created for me and bosses out there, if you ever want to do a testimonial that will get the attention of a potential client right, this is a very boss move. I love this .T-code Create a lovely video that does a nice shout out, that expresses gratitude, and it was a lovely video and I was so touched that you took the time to create a video and, by the way, the production value was just amazing.  03:20  kudos on the production value of that. I mean it was insane, and I was just so excited that you were excited and I wanted to talk to you. I mean, with all these accomplishments, you are quite a VO boss, and so I was only too happy to ask if you would be on the show, and my apologies because bosses out there. I don't know about this time zone slash day but I completely messed up the first time that we were supposed to get together, so I'm just so glad that we're finally here.  03:48 So glad to have you on the show.  03:50 - Tolulope (Guest) Thank you so much.  03:51 - Anne (Host) Yeah, so let's talk about your start in voiceover, because I think a lot of bosses here we know what happens in our own little bubble here, but it's difficult to really find out what's going on in other countries. And how is voiceover? How is it doing in Africa? And you're championing it. So I think it's a wonderful start to talk about how you got started.  04:14 - Tolulope (Guest) Okay, so I'm going to talk about how I got started and then we talk about the industry in Africa. I got started officially in 20. So there was the 2016 version of me getting into voiceovers and there was the 2016 version of me getting into voiceovers and there was the 2020 version of me getting into voiceovers In 2016. It was more of broadcasting. As a broadcaster, I worked on radio and that was where I got introduced to the world of recording audio.  04:40 Prior to that time, well, even while I was in university because I graduated from the university in 2015, I did a bit of radio stuff and that was actually the first time that I would do a voiceover. I wasn't a presenter at the time, but someone heard my voice and said, oh, would you like to come to the university radio station? Which I said okay, yes, I did. And I got there and they said oh, said oh, okay, what stuff have you got? So the radio station's name was something around Versity Radio at the time and I just said you're listening to Versity Radio, something around that, and they were like whoa, that was great and they allowed me do the voiceovers for the radio station, the audio branding and all of that at the time, but then I wasn't schooled about voiceover. I didn't really know what it was, so I continued my radio journey.  05:29 2016. I would go to other radio stations and do the same thing for the radio stations and the presenters on the radio. Then, 2017, I started understanding what voiceover was because I was officially working on radio at this time.  05:43 - Anne (Host) Did you have your own radio  at this time, and did you have your own shows at that time? 05:47 - Tolulope (Guest) Yeah, I had a show on radio, but I was more on tv because the establishment was a tv and radio station combined. Okay, so I was doing more of tv, but they would call me to do some of the promos for some radio and tv shows and I would do all of those at a time. But I still didn't understand what voiceover was until fast forward to 2019. I was working in another radio station. The demand for my voice had increased and some money started coming in, but very little at the time. So I started getting curious to how the industry in voiceover was at the time. So I started asking questions, I took online courses and 2020 was when I got into voiceover officially. So there were different versions of that.  06:40 But late 2019, I took a bold step to find anybody who would need my voice on the internet. So I went on youtube and I found some youtube channels by africans who were doing voiceovers on their youtube channel as to narrate stories on the youtube channel. But they weren't professional voiceover artists. But compared to what I was doing at the time, I could read better. So I would respectfully reach out to them and say Hi, I'm a radio presenter and a voiceover artist here in Nigeria and I don't know if you don't mind, I would love to record your voiceovers.  07:14 At the time I didn't have any idea of exactly how the industry worked, but I just wanted a platform somewhere to put my voice out there. So I reached out to a couple of youtubers and one of them reached back to me and was willing to offer me some stipend monthly for recording voiceovers for a channel, and that was how it started. So the moment I got to realize that I could earn a living from voiceovers and there was opportunity for me to improve and grow my skills, I took it so serious and I started looking for resources and I think it was 2020 and 2021,. I discovered your podcast and it was just a whole new height for me because I was connecting to the voiceover industry globally and that really just opened my mind to more about voiceover. So that's the story of how I got into this.  08:05 - Anne (Host) I love that. So prior to that you were full time in radio.  08:08 - Tolulope (Guest) Yes, radio and TV. I did that for about six years.  08:11 - Anne (Host) Got it. Got it Radio and TV. So where did we're going to fast forward to the podcast? Because you've been doing your podcast for a while now and now you realize that it's a labor of love. It is something that does require like a focused, like passion to creating content that goes out there on a consistent basis. Talk to me about what drew you into the podcast. Were there other podcasts, voiceover podcasts, let's say, specifically in your area, that talked about African voiceovers or voiceover in Nigeria? What prompted you?  08:43 - Tolulope (Guest) Okay, so my first foray into podcasting wasn't because I wanted to podcast at the time, and this was in 2019. So I was working on radio. I needed a medium to save my radio shows right, because people would listen. And radio is a medium yeah, radio is a medium where people just listen once and you can't rewind, you can't listen again on the go. So I had that program I was doing on radio and I wish to archive it. So I was looking for ways to do this on the internet for free, and that was how I stumbled on podcasting, because, of course, you could just upload an audio and it's there.  09:22 Right, right, right. So that was how I started I love that that's so interesting.  09:24 So that was how.  09:24 I started. I love that.  09:25 - Anne (Host) That's so interesting because I have to tell you that I wanted to get into radio but I wasn't, and so I said, well, let me create a podcast  09:32 So it's very interesting, and that was my radio. 09:36 - Tolulope (Guest) Oh yeah, it still feels like radio because I resigned from radio. In 2021 to face Voice of Us full time. Oh, okay, in 2021 to face voiceovers full time.  09:44 Oh, okay, yeah but back to the question of how the podcast came to be. So, prior to the time I was entering into the voiceover industry, there was no voiceover podcast that I had heard of. And 2020, I took a course at the voiceover workshop. That's one of the few voiceover training institutions we have in Nigeria, so I realized that there was more to this. People did this full time. There was an industry around this, so I was curious to know more. Podcasting was already getting more popular at the time, so it just made sense that there should be somebody on the internet podcasting about voiceover. So a friend shared a couple of podcasts and then I saw this article the top 10 voiceover podcasts in the world. Your podcast was a part of them, with a couple of other podcasters that I respect a lot.  10:37 - Anne (Host) Wow, I didn't even know that. That's awesome. 10:40 - Tolulope (Guest) Yeah, and then I checked it out and I just fell in love with it because the style of the presentation you were so real, so relatable. It felt like you were trying to help people, just groom them, feed them and you break down the stings. So I'd stalk to your podcast and I'd listen and listen. And I checked the African space. At the time there was only one lady from South Africa podcasting about voiceover and it was quite refreshing to find her at the time, but not in Nigeria. I didn't find anybody in Nigeria. So I wanted to start because I felt it would be so great for voiceover artists in Nigeria to share their stories.  11:22 So people can know what we're going through, because a lot of things needed to be restructured in the voiceover industry at the time, in my opinion. But there was nothing like that. So from 2020 the idea came, but I had this imposter syndrome because I was like, oh, you're just young into the industry, how do you expect to be the guy to host people and just talk about voiceovers? So I delayed the idea till 2022. And in 2022, nobody was doing it. I'm like, well, you have to do it. So I started the podcast. Prior to that time, I had the experience of podcasting. I'd worked on radio, I understood how to record a deed and put things together, upload a podcast. So I just took all of that knowledge and I started the Everything Voice of Us podcast, the African Perspective, which was for Africans, by Africans, to tell African stories.  12:16 - Anne (Host) I love that, you know. What's so interesting is that I don't know if it's a prerequisite or a requirement to be the expert if you want to start a podcast, because for me, I remember, before I started the podcast I started my VO Peeps group because I had moved across the country and I wanted to kind of get to know the people in my industry, and so I basically started to interview my heroes. I didn't necessarily present myself as the expert at anything, but I was absolutely interested in sharing resources and educating the community, and I think that that is a great way to look at any type of a podcast that you want to start out there, bosses, so that you can share and educate, and I think that is a really great angle to come upon it. And so I think for you, you do a lot of interviews in your podcast and I'm sure people are very eager to get their voices heard as well, and so it's kind of a win-win for both, for both of you?  13:15 - Tolulope (Guest) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.  13:17 - Anne (Host) Yeah, what would you say has been your biggest I don't know your biggest takeaway from now starting and having a successful podcast. What would you say is your biggest takeaway from now starting and having a successful podcast. What would you say is your biggest takeaway?  13:29 What's your biggest gift from the podcast?  13:29 - Tolulope (Guest) That's a huge question, 13:30 - Anne (Host)  And what's the biggest challenge?  13:33 - Tolulope (Guest) Okay, so first the biggest gift from the podcast and then the biggest challenge.  13:38 I think the biggest gift from the podcast has been connecting me with the world.  13:43 Like the world is so big and there are people waiting to be heard and people wanting to hear more, so my biggest gift is that I've been able to connect with the world and share that network, or the stories that I learned across the way, with people.  14:02 Because of the podcast, a lot of people know me and because of the podcast I can also access a lot of people from different parts of Africa and even outside Africa, and it has helped me to grow such network that many prominent things happening in the voiceover and audio creative space in Africa. I am often involved in most of these things and it's just a very humbling experience for me. So the network is a powerful gift that I've gotten humbling experience for me, so the network is a powerful gift that I've gotten. I think the biggest challenge for podcasting, as you've said earlier, anne, is that it's a should I use the word thankless job, or it's a service, it's something it is. Yeah, it's a very sacrificial thing to do because literally I don't know how it works over there, but we don't get paid in Africa for podcasting.  14:52 - Anne (Host) No, we don't get paid here either, and to get sponsors is very difficult.  14:57 - Tolulope (Guest) It is. It is so. It's something that if you are not convinced, if you are not passionate and selfless, you're going to burn out real quick. So I have invested my time, my energy, my money into this. I had to create a team. I mean, for the first two seasons of the podcast, I was doing this independently and since, in theory, I took on some boss moves. To be honest, you inspired me as well on this episode you did, where you talked about podcasting and you I think it was the beginning of this year you said something about how much you spent on podcasting the previous year.  15:34 It's not cheap, was it like $15,000 or something. It was like $10,000 to $15,000,.  15:39 - Speaker 4 (Ad) Yeah, yeah, and when I heard that I'm like guy, you can do more. People at the top do a lot to get to where they are. So I decided, okay, I'm going to invest more into this. And they are. So I decided, okay, I'm going to invest more into this. And my focus was to help him build a better voice of our industry. That has always been my inspiration to doing many of the things that I do. So, yeah, that's my gift and the biggest challenge, the fact that you're just doing it on your own. But, yeah, it's still a blessing at the end of the day, Right?  16:10 - Anne (Host) Now you mentioned that you thought there needed to be restructuring or you were wanting to be active in restructuring the voiceover industry in Africa. Tell us a little bit more about that. How has it evolved and what do you want to do to restructure that?  16:24 - Tolulope (Guest) Interesting. So, interestingly enough, yesterday I had a conversation with one of the very respected voiceover artists in Nigeria top voiceover artist on my Instagram page where we talked about the evolution of voiceover in Nigeria and I see something very similar to that in Africa. Voiceover for the longest in Africa, has been heavily associated with broadcasting. I believe it's almost the same thing every other place, but the difference is that for a lot of African countries that I have observed, voiceover is still somewhat glued to broadcasting, meaning broadcasters are the ones who officially do voiceovers.  17:04 Not many people come to claim the career to be voiceover artists. It is still being viewed as a part-time side hustle, right. So when I was coming in, of course it started as a part-time stuff for me as well, but I met a few nigerian voice actors, like eric maximus, who I was just referencing, e, and a couple of people like that. These people stood out as full-time voice actors Chilu Lemba, you know, femi Bakes these are my colleagues and I was inspired and also, listening to you, I realized this was possible. So the things that I felt could be restructured is that I needed people to see this more as a business, more as an industry and, gracefully, some people as far back as 1999, 2000 in Nigeria had realized this is what we needed to do, so they created an association in Nigeria at the time called the Association of Voice Over Artists in Nigeria.  18:08 Oh, okay, yeah.  18:10 And this association has been for about 22 years. But unfortunately the growth of the association has seen a lot of challenges because technology came quicker the old era of voiceovers, where everybody had to go to physical studios with the agencies and directors and all of that had gone, but a lot of people here were stuck in that era. So the new era of having a home studio, you know, and working with international rates and how things are being done live sessions, directed ones these things were into the norm over here and I felt that we needed to do better. Our rates weren't standard, as it were, very low at the time when I came, and just the attitude of people towards voiceover is just like a side hustle. People didn't respect the craft. So these were the things that I wished could change.  19:06 Also, if you look at the American space, you had organizations that would fight for voiceover artists and you had resources for voiceover artists the coaches. There were people who had written books, there were award shows and things like that. We didn't have so much of those here. You hardly would find any book written by anybody about voiceover If you go to the internet, any book written by anybody about voiceover. If you go to the internet. There were no like very scanty.  19:35 So I felt like people needed to own this craft, people needed to build the industry, and I had to do what I had to do. There were a few companies, like training institutions that existed already at the time, so I just had had to contribute. I joined the association, joined another association called the African Association of Podcasters and Voice Actors, and together we started forming the policies and the building blocks, creating resources for voiceover artists, for podcasters in Africa, creating events like award shows. So we have the APVA Awards, we have webinars. We started creating these things and I must say it's been an interesting journey, a challenging one as well, but quite an interesting one since then.  20:17 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely.  20:18 It's kind of like you're building it from the ground up, which I think is really amazing, and that is something that having knowledge of building things, being a kind of a pioneer in building things as the technology evolves and as our space voiceover industry grows.  20:33 It's a lot of thankless things, a lot of donation of your time, and so I think it's wonderful that you have really kind of gotten in on the ground floor so that you can help to develop policies and guidelines and then also you have a platform that's able to broadcast that out to the world.  20:51 And what I love is, and what I'm hoping, is that our connection here can also help you to be even more globally known, because that, of course, as I mentioned multiple times on my show, the podcast actually cost me money, but it also gives me a lot back in terms of people know who I am, lot back in terms of people know who I am, and so I think we know, and I think you must also know, that that is one of the most important things when you're trying to get your voice out there and when you're trying to become known as a business as well, so that you can survive full-time on voiceover.  21:23 Would you say that you are able to survive full-time on voiceover now, or is it still something that you are building? I know that it took me a few years to do that and you've been working already at it for a few years. Is it something that is a realistic goal for, let's say, I have been thriving as a voiceover artist full-time and I have colleagues who are also doing the same full-time, but we're not so many compared to the US, and the reason for?  22:01 - Tolulope (Guest) If you look at those of us who are doing voiceovers full-time, we are multi-skilled. We are able to record, we're able to edit and produce, we understand acoustics, we have learned about voiceover, we understand marketing as well. So it takes all of the skills to be able to stand and say, oh, I'll do voiceovers full-time, but majority aren't able to do that. Also, looking at the economic challenges and the reality surrounding what it takes to be a full-time voiceover artist, where in a country and largely in many parts of the continent, we don't have stable electricity, so you could be working and you run out of power, and that affects your work, especially if you're In your livelihood.  22:48 Exactly Right. So there's also the challenge of being able to erect or build a home studio for yourself, and also the fact that the equipment could be very expensive. Looking at our exchange rate, when we convert this equipment that costs some maybe $500 or $200 into Naira, whatever currency, it's a lot. So it's very challenging to decide to go full-time into voiceover, but for the few of us who are able to do it, it's also rewarding, especially and I must say, the fact that we get to work with clients out of Nigeria, especially clients from the us, using platforms like voice one, two, three and other pay-to-play sites. They open us up to opportunities with foreign clients and getting paid in dollars has its own advantage. So, yes, it's quite rewarding to work as a full-time voiceover artist, but it's also very challenging for a lot of us.  23:48 - Anne (Host) So what would be your best advice? That you would give aspiring voiceover talents in Nigeria Africa if they're looking to get into the industry. 23:57 - Tolulope (Guest) All right. So for people who are looking to get into the industry, the first thing that I recommend they do is to acquire knowledge. A lot of people still think, oh, you could just record voiceovers on your phone and I'm like, no, it doesn't work that way. So you need to learn, and I'm grateful that we have voiceover institutions in Nigeria and also other parts of Africa. We've got one in South Africa. That's the South Africa Voiceover Academy. In Nigeria, we have Voiceover Workshop Voiceover Academy. There are a couple of them and they've been able to come together to gather the body of knowledge needed for young voice artists to start. So I recommend. Second thing I recommend is podcasts. Listening to podcasts helps to develop the required skill in a sense, because you're listening to experts in the field. Now, I've been learning from you for many years and we had never met and it's been free, so that's the beautiful thing about podcasts.  25:01 It is a beautiful thing, isn't it? Yeah, it's absolutely free.  25:05 So I encourage people because you might not be able to afford hundreds of dollars to have Anganguza or any other top voiceover artists, so listen to podcasts. I recommend that as well. The third thing is to practice and take the big step, because I've also been coaching people in voiceover for a while. I realized that oftentimes they come, they train but they don't implement. There's this fear and imposter syndrome of calling yourself a voiceover artist. They hardly make the bold steps, they don't do demos and put themselves out there. They're waiting to be perfect, they're waiting to get it all figured out. So they compare themselves to someone like me or other colleagues of mine or people ahead of me and they're like I don't have what it takes, I don't sound like you just yet. So I always encourage them Start now, when nobody even really knows you so much. Make the mistakes Grow, because we all started somewhere. We didn't start perfect. So these are the things that I'll encourage them.  26:07 - Anne (Host) And I also think and this is kind of my big thing when I have students that say, well, I don't sound like I'm not there yet I'm like in reality and I think you must know, because you've had such a lengthy experience in being on camera and also in radio and podcasts when you connect with someone, nobody's really listening to how you.  26:27 I mean, yeah, we can sound good, but in reality that is only like a temporary, fleeting thing, that, okay, it sounds good, it sounds clear, I understand you, but when we connect, we connect on an emotional level and that really comes into the storytelling, that comes into that point of view that we're able to express. And I think that podcasting helps us to do that, like, especially if it's a conversation between you and I. But I use those skills in my voiceover to connect with that theoretical client and that's really where it becomes the most important. So how important would you say the connection in storytelling is for, let's say, the current trend and styles that are happening in your area? I mean because globally, I think we all need to be able to tell stories. But I'm just curious in terms of locally, when people hire you, are they hiring you for that big, deep, booming voice? Or are they also hiring you for that storytelling capability?  27:18 - Tolulope (Guest) That's a very good question, because in the continent, especially in Nigeria, I'm going to take Nigeria we have been very influenced by the Western cultures the things we see from movies in hollywood, the cartoons that we've seen growing up, so these has heavily influenced how we tell our stories in the media. There's still a lot of true storytelling, I must say, but when people think about voiceover, a lot of young people think about Disney, they think about all the Cartoon Network stuff and what that affects is the accent. So they're tempted to want to sound like the kids they watched growing up. They think that's what voiceover is. And it doesn't mean that's not what voiceover isn't. It just means the people you see on your screens.  28:14 They're telling stories that are relatable to them. It's their local stories. The animation you watch, even though it's fiction, but the communication, the nuances, you know all of those expressions. They're very akin to wherever they come from. Over here there's a way we tell our stories, the way we crack our jokes, the lingua. It's very local. So it's a lot of work to try to explain to upcoming talents that see, your accent is good enough yourself.  28:50 The way you sound is good enough. It's good enough you are enough.  28:54 You don't have to sound like barbie. You don't have to sound like right.  28:58 - Anne (Host) I'm so glad that you like this. It gets me emotional actually. I'm so glad that you like this. It gets me emotional actually, because I'm so glad that you said that, because it's important for not just locally you, it's important for us, it's important for the world to hear those stories. Right, it's important for us to understand you and how you tell stories, because it may be different than how I tell the story, but it's certainly very interesting to me.  29:19 You know what I mean.  29:25 And it's something that I feel I could benefit from hearing and I could enjoy it and it could be educational, it can be entertaining and I think just getting that experience and that culture and that storytelling is so important to a global audience.  29:35 Yes, absolutely, which I?  29:36 think is important to your business, which?  29:38 is so important to your business, so I think for anyone and I love how you talk about the imposter syndrome, which I think we all have.  29:44 I think that's a global thing, right? Everybody has imposter syndrome I still think, at the very heart of it, the fact that we can share and that we can communicate and we can connect with one another, that is something that is very much wanted and desired.  30:03 It may not be, as, let's say, marketable in certain places yet. Right, because even in America there's a lot of places that say they want the conversational connection, but yet a lot of times what you hear on television turns out to be something different because of whoever's directing you, whoever is hiring what they hear in their head. Right, Because they could have grown up with those kind of announcer kind of broadcast sort of sound and that's who ended up directing you and that's how the commercial sounds or that's how whatever it is that you're doing sounds. But I do believe that when it comes to people that really want that connection, that engagement with their brand, that they're going to hopefully continually go more and more into the storytelling aspect and it becomes less about your voice and more about how you can reach that person that's listening to you at the other end of the mic in reality.  30:52 So, yeah, I think it's all about the connection. So let's talk a little bit about any type of, let's say, memorable story or project that showcased your unique storytelling. Is there anything that you can talk about that is out there on a global level that can really speak to your unique storytelling?  31:14 - Tolulope (Guest) Now that you say memorable, I've done a couple of voiceovers for different brand. I think the most recent that I did was for coca-cola. So I've done a couple of voiceovers for different brands. I think the most recent that I did was for Coca-Cola, so I've done a couple of them. I think the two most memorable would be getting cast on one of the biggest animations to come out of Nigeria, which would actually be out next year, 2025. And that animation is called Iyanu. It's going to be on Cartoon Network on.  31:42 Showmatch in Africa. So I'm one of the cast and it was such an honor to be on that because it's not just a cartoon for the world to enjoy, but it captures African stories. The entire cast were Nigerian, so we spoke the true Nigerian accent. It was quite a mix of traditional and youth, friendly and young. You know all of that, so I'm happy to be on that. I play a character called Shiju, which people would come to find out much more about later. Then the other one would be.  32:16 Recently I did a voiceover for a friend. She started this podcast and I recorded the voiceover and I just something about that voiceover stood out for me. It's on a podcast anyway, so, um, it's memorable to me personally. It's not like it's for a global brand of some sort, but it's just something that when I think about that particular voiceover maybe because the way I read it it was just so real and I just felt everything in that script Very powerful story, very touching experience. It's titled the First and Last Time I Saw my Parents Dance and that story was just so powerful. So, yeah, that works for me too. It's on podcasts and platforms.  33:02 - Anne (Host) Awesome. Well, I'll be connecting those links up in the show notes for any of those bosses that are looking for more information. So tell us what's next for you Any exciting projects on the way or other goals that you're working toward. Any other associations you're going to pioneer. Any other associations you're going to?  33:21 - Tolulope (Guest)  Next up for me is my youtube channel. Already I have the podcast running on youtube, but I am planning on creating a youtube channel where I talk more about voiceover extensively, particularly for Nigerians and africans my extension, so that is going to be coming up next year. I also am working on some online courses. Although right now I teach voiceovers, I mentor people one-on-one. I also teach voiceovers with other voiceover institutions of learning in Nigeria, but I realized that there's a lot of demand out there and I can't always be physically there to teach over and over and over. It's very demanding. So I'm putting together an online course that will be available, and my website is also in the works. So by January 2025, everything will be ready. So these are the things I'm working on.  34:13 - Anne (Host) Well, that's quick, that's like next month. Yeah, I love it. So tell our bosses where they can find you, where they can learn more about you. Follow you on socials.  34:25 - Tolulope (Guest) Okay, so my Instagram handle is tcode70. That's T-C-O-D-E underscore 70. My YouTube channel is I am tcode70. So you can find me on YouTube and on TikTok I'm also tcode underscore 70 TikTok. Tcode underscore 70. On X, which is formerly Twitter, my website will be out really soon will be, I mean, launched so my website is iamtcode.com Iamtcode.com.  34:57 - Anne (Host) Love it, love it. And that's coming January, January 25. So now I'm hoping that I myself am releasing a new website that is supposed to be out in January of 2025 as well. So it's just a little refresh of my brand.  35:10 So  oh my gosh, it has been so much fun chatting with you and I am keeping my fingers crossed for Sunday, which is coming up in a few days, to find out about that Sova's nomination. But the way I feel if you're nominated award nominated is just as good as award winning in my book, and actually even that is subjective. But yeah, my fingers are crossed for you and I'll be listening. I've got a couple nominations myself that I'm going to be you know. We'll see if that works out and in the meantime, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you and I want to actually check up with you next year again so that we can reconnect and see what other amazing things you've done, because you are definitely a VO boss for sure, and it's been a pleasure chatting with you today.  35:56 - Tolulope (Guest)  you so much, and it's been a pleasure chatting with you too, and thank you for inspiring me and millions of others, because, yeah, a lot of people are still going to listen to this. Podcast is a platform that people can listen to many years to come, so thank you so much, Anne.  36:12 - Anne (Host) No problem, all right, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses, like Tico to myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, bye.  36:28 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes Anne Ganguza and Andy Roth delve into the nuances of voice acting from the perspective of a seasoned casting director. They explore strategies for success in auditions, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and making genuine choices. Listeners will gain insights into the casting process, understanding the client's vision, and the significance of following instructions. The episode addresses the impact of AI on the industry while reinforcing the irreplaceable value of human connection and unique interpretation. Anne and Andy also discuss practical advice for creating compelling auditions, handling limited information, and cultivating a resilient mindset in the face of industry challenges.   00:04 - Anne (Host) Hey, what's up bosses? Join our VI peeps today and gain access to over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops designed to enhance your voiceover skills. From industry insights to practical techniques, our workshops cover a wide range of topics. As a VI peeps member, you'll also receive a 15% discount on current workshops and free monthly workshops to keep your skills sharp. Don't miss out on this opportunity. Sign up for VI Peeps membership now at vopeeps.com    00:39 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguza.    00:58 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and today I am so excited to have a very special guest Andy Roth with me here today. Andy has a career that has spAnned three decades and he is an award-winning casting director, voice director, producer and writer and is known for you Would Do it Too, too Hot to Handle Valeria, the Animal People, the Forest, my gosh this list Andy is going on and the Peculiar Adventures of Willoughby Starr. He's also served as casting director on over a thousand commercials. That is a lot of commercials. So welcome to the podcast, Andy. It's so wonderful to have you.    01:40 - Andy (Host) Thanks, I'm excited to be here. Thank you.    01:43 - Anne (Host) Gosh, I met you not so long ago and I'm not quite sure why it took so long for me to meet you, but I thank Jessica Blue for introducing us because I feel like I've known you forever and you're just amazing and I want the bosses to know how amazing you are as well. And so let's talk about you and your long, spanning career of gosh over a thousand commercials and all these productions. It's amazing. How did you get started?    02:11 - Andy (Host) Honestly and yes, I think I have worked on more commercials than any human being should probably ever really be exposed to. I got started in this business actually back in 1994. A friend of a friend heard about an opening for an assistant at a talent agency which was called CED at the time. Now it's called CESD and it was in the voiceover department and so I became an assistant there, did that for several years, then became their in-house casting director and did that till 2007 and then left on my own and I actually I didn't even know when I started that voiceover was its own thing.    02:49 - Anne (Host) I was going to ask you, did you get the experience on the job as you were casting?    02:53 - Andy (Host) Yeah, like I mean, of course I always knew about commercial voiceover and animation and things like that, but I didn't know how vast it was until I was really in the heart of it and I just I fell in love with it.    03:05 - Anne (Host) I can't imagine. I mean and so how has the industry changed and evolved over the years?    03:10 - Andy (Host) for you, Well, it's gotten bigger. So many changes I mean, it's been 30 years since I went through a couple of strikes. It was the explosion of the non-union entity, which has become a whole other thing, of the non-union entity, which has become a whole other thing. Yeah, it's become its own area of the business. I've discovered that voiceover is anytime there's something new. Voiceover is the first thing there. Oh, how interesting. Anytime there's a new piece of technology, somebody wants to put a voice on it. Siri's a voiceover. Yeah, Alexa is a voiceover. Holograms have voiceovers. Augmented reality, virtual reality. When I started in this business, it was basically 13 chAnnels and people really mostly only cared about four of them. Yes, yes.    03:58 - Anne (Host) I hear you on that.    04:00 - Andy (Host) And then cable became a thing and you had this box with three numbers on it so you could have 999 chAnnels. And now with streaming, it's just icons. I mean it's unlimited. It goes on forever. And people have discovered content from other countries that's exploded and become a thing and voices are everywhere. We are the first area of the business to adapt and change and we're sticky Once we're in a place voiceover is just going to be there.    04:32 - Anne (Host) I love that. I love that, and especially because you've been in the industry for so long and we talked about, you know, the explosion, like the technology explosion too, I mean, with first it was all union, then non-union kind of came aboard, because of the pay to place, I'm sure, and the online casting, and now we're under the threat of AI. But I guess I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, because here you are with all these wonderful, hopeful things that you're saying about voiceover, which I love and I like to tell my bosses out there as well. I mean, I think there's always a place for human voiceover.    05:00 - Andy (Host) What are your?    05:00 - Anne (Host) thoughts on that.    05:02 - Andy (Host) I think there are certain areas of the business that may be a little safer from AI, especially animation. People love to go to cons to meet the voice of their character. You can't really replace that with AI. Is it 100% safe? Maybe not, but there are people dealing with it, fortunately, and AI does a lot of good things for the world too. I mean, I've seen programs where people who have no ability to speak can speak because AI helps them. It helps search engines. I mean there is definitely a place for AI. But as far as the possibility of replacing humans in this business, there are people out there that are concerned about it, that are helping, and fortunately they've been on it since it really became apparent it could be a thing. I'm optimistic. I'm realistic in that there will be some areas where AI is going to be there. It already is, but I'm very, very optimistic about protections.    06:02 - Anne (Host) Me too, me too.    06:03 I really am. There's a lot of people fighting and, with the strike going on, which you know, fingers crossed, people are listening. I mean, I think what it is is we have voices and hopefully they're being heard, because a lot of people out there, like back in the beginning, when I got into voiceover, like what is that? Even, and even when you said you started, like what is that? Even. I think bringing awareness to the global community about voiceover and what we do as creatives and how important the creative process is, I think is really impactful in helping get us protections as we move forward. And I am a tech girl and I believe there is a lot of space for AI in the world, but I also believe there's a lot of space for human and human engagement and human creativity and I think that people crave that, no matter how good. And let's talk about this because an AI voice is perfect, and so you and I also with my students, we talk a lot about like I don't want a perfect voice when I'm directing my students.    07:02 I mean I want to hear that imperfection because that makes it real and that makes me engage and connect with it. Let's talk a little bit about that, about really, what should voice actors be doing now to really separate themselves from the crowd and also from AI?    07:19 - Andy (Host) Well, honestly, being a presence having a discussion, you don't connect to AI the way you connect to another human when it reaches its pinnacle and it's really ready to go, which it's not totally now. But the good thing about AI is it's going to do whatever you ask it to do whenever you ask it to do it. The bad thing about AI is it's going to do whatever you ask it to do whenever you ask it to do it. There are some moments that have come out of projects I've worked on. I mean, I've voice directed I think like 22 shows now that are on the air. The great thing is you give a direction and the human being interprets it their way, and sometimes you're right on the money and you're really simpatico and it's exactly what I asked for. Thank you. Sometimes we figure things out together. Sometimes they come up with something they thought was what I asked for but was actually a lot better.    08:13 When you get two independent minds with human experience, with a life, with a history of interacting with other human beings, there's a thought process there that, at least at the moment and honestly, in my opinion, for the foreseeable future, can't really be duplicated. I mean, ai is intelligence, but it is artificial and we cast based on human interaction. We connect with roles we direct. This whole industry is built on human interaction. So, to a certain point, yes, ai can get things going and smooth out maybe some of the bumps, but it's not really going to be the base on which this industry is built for human beings to connect to other human beings. That being said, not everybody sees it this way, so be vigilant and be aware of it. But as far as how people can stand out honestly, the best way for people to stand out is to be themselves. There are a lot of people I know that send me auditions that I can hear they're trying to be what they think the right thing is. Yes, absolutely.    09:19 And if I've asked you to audition, you're already the right thing. I don't know if you'll get the job, but I know that you can do the job. And I've had auditions that people didn't book lead to other jobs that they didn't even audition for. That actually just happened on a show I am on right now. I cast somebody and he was like did I audition for this? I'm like well, sort of you auditioned, like two shows ago.    09:43 - Anne (Host) I love that. Yeah, I think that's very encouraging for those actors out there who it's such a personal thing, right.    09:50 When you submit an audition, it's so hard not to get personally attached to it or feel like, oh gosh, like I really, really want this, and but then you don't hear anything or you may never get feedback and then ultimately that is, I think, when people are first starting out in this industry. It's something very hard for them to kind of let go of because it is such maybe a personal connection. But I love that you're talking about bringing yourself and the human element to the audition, because that's really what makes you unique. I'll even tell my students, because I do a lot of work in the long format narration like corporate and e-learning, and most people feel like that shouldn't have like a point of view or a feeling, but most absolutely it does, because I tell people to think about like okay, if you're going to do an e-learning module like what was it when you were going to school that made someone your favorite teacher?    10:37 Like did you have a subject that maybe you hated, but then all of a sudden, the teacher was amazing and then that's what made it interesting. And that's the type of voice that I want to come out. And there's always a point of view in that, believe it or not, it's a point of view that says I care about you as a student, that I care that you learn, and so that comes through in the voice and if you're just reading the words, or even if you're just reading the words in the sound in which you hear them all the time, which typically is very robotic for a lot of e-learning, I go on and on about why that happened for so many years. Because nobody chucked us on it and nobody was an actual teacher.    11:09 And I say that because I was a teacher in front of the classroom for 20, some odd years. But still, even if you think in what you hear, I have so many students that say, but I hear it on the commercial, it sounds like this and I'm like, yeah, but that might not have been what got them cast. It might be at the moment that someone directed them to be. And even you, if I ask, if you're directing someone, do you not only sometimes have to like talk to the client to see?    11:33 if that's what the client is thinking is good, and even what you might be like, this is great. This actor's got it nailed. The client might want something different.    11:41 - Andy (Host) Well, I work with the actor for the client. The actor is sort of the most profound connection artistically. That's the relationship that ultimately creates a thing. But I do work for the client and ultimately what they want.    11:57 I kind of think of it like this: this is a hive mind and there's a queen bee somewhere in an office with a checkbook and the rest of us are workers trying to make sure the hive is ready before it rains. So I very, very much listen to the client, want to do what the client says. I'm very much back and forth with the client. If it's a dubbed show that I'm directing, I am constantly because I could get a read that I'm like that's brilliant, that's amazing, I love it. And then I'm like that's brilliant, that's amazing, I love it. And then I'm like let's compare it to the original, because if it doesn't match or do the same thing, I'm like I love it, but we have to shelve it and we have to do what the client wants.    12:34 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) But at the end of the day.    12:35 - Andy (Host) The client has built a container that they want filmed with humAnness and it is my job to fill it up, and that happens just through us connecting. Part of what I listen for on an audition is do I get you? And I don't mean like, are you a Pisces? Or something like that. I mean Long walks on the beach, right exactly Pina coladas getting caught in the rain, not that I have a problem with pina coladas or getting caught in theaters, or long walks on the beach.    13:05 - Anne (Host) Long walks on the beach.    13:06 - Andy (Host) Let's be fair, but I do feel like I want to feel like there's a human there, because that makes me feel like I know what's going to happen in the studio, and I don't want any of us to do more work than we absolutely have to do. I want us to connect, do something, play with it, do it again, move on, and it needs to be within the container that the client has given me to fill. Does that make sense?    13:29 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely so. Then if there are casting specs, and someone is paying attention to the casting specs, which a lot of times. Casting specs sometimes seem fairly generic and sometimes not. How much should they be paying attention to that and trying to like create that versus bringing their most human self to that read?    13:49 - Andy (Host) Well, I will say this about casting specs and yeah, sometimes they kind of suck and I'm sorry about that, but they are designed to help you. They are coming from somebody's mind to kind of get you to the place where you can be you in the relevant context. Sometimes they're just not actable, sometimes they are a little generic, sometimes they're not understandable, but more often I think they are. And even if we don't realize every nuance, just reading them often will get us to an emotional place where we can be ourselves, because happy you is very different than sarcastic you or sad you or angry you. I say, always pay attention to them, always read them. But If you can't make a choice based on them, then maybe sort through or throw them away, but they are always there to help you.    14:42 I mean, I do know some people that are like, oh, I never read the specs. I don't think that's the best way to go. Sure, yeah, always. But I mean again, you don't have to be beyond completely throwing them away. They're garbage or they're just completely not you, but they weren't paying attention to. Also, sometimes we put things in there like naming conventions, if I say I want the file named role underscore full name.    15:12 And I get something that's named a different way Well before I've even listened to it. You've told me you don't really care what I have to say. So yeah, I would say, always pay attention to them.    15:21 - Anne (Host) I like how you turned that into the message right.    15:24 So a lot of people I'll be like I don't understand why I will have my students name files a particular way, because they submit their homework via Dropbox and they have to name it a certain way. And if they don't, I spend half of their session looking for their file and what happens is they seem to think I'm insane for asking them to name it a certain way. And I'm like, in reality, there's a method to my madness here. I mean because if you audition, you're going to have to name that file specifically the way they're asking, otherwise it's going to get tossed to the side. I like how you mentioned that. Yeah, you've already shown that you have respect for the process by naming the file correctly, and it shouldn't be a task to do that. And if it is a task, then I think maybe you should get some computer training that can help you to do that task and to pay attention, because that's part of our job when we're submitting.    16:14 - Andy (Host) I mean, you're going to name it something.    16:16 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly, why not name it what we're asked?    16:19 - Andy (Host) You're not just going to send me a file with nothingmp3. Also, I find that some of these rules, although they may not be the creative process, they may not be the most fun thing, they actually do help their creative process. I was talking to somebody who is an on-camera person. They're working on their own project and it's great. And I said have you ever interned or worked at a studio? You know, it's California, there's no shortage of them. If you can't intern, well, I think that that would get in the way of my creativity and I don't want to. And it's like okay, I understand that, because you'll be in their world with their creativity, but nobody writes a screenplay and says I can't wait to gaff this.    17:08 I'm so excited to hire security and craft services. Working at a place where all of these things are just laid out, where, okay, I have to get security, I have to get craft services, I have to go file permits, I have to do all this. Working at a place that's going to make the part you don't really want to do easy, is going to free you up to focus on the creative and it's actually going to make you creatively freer because, whether it's a horror movie or a romance or a comedy, getting a permit is getting a permit. It's the same and getting used to saying, okay, I know how they want to do this. It's the reason I have people name certain things is because often I want all characters grouped together.    17:44 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely yeah. There's a good reason for that, yeah.    17:47 - Andy (Host) Right, and if yeah, like you said, if I have to go searching through it, you made my job harder finding you than it was for you. To just name it what I asked you.    17:55 - Anne (Host) Don't give you homework, like I shouldn't be giving you homework.    17:58 - Andy (Host) If I'm submitting an audition, it should not be homework for you to find it and to listen to it, and yeah, absolutely, and I just may not do it.    18:06 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly Because you know you're that student that sits in the back of the class. I mean, I already know this about you, having met you briefly, but those are the most fun students.    18:18 Those are the creative ones that usually you know they're geniuses in the back because they're causing all kinds of trouble, but you don't want to give your talent agent or your casting director or whoever it is you're submitting your audition to. You don't want to give them homework. So what other things would you recommend are strategies for maybe creating a great audition or getting to the humAnness and the point of view that you're looking for in terms of this is the actor I want to cast.    18:45 - Andy (Host) Don't try to get it right. Don't deliberately get it wrong, like if the role obviously needs you laughing. Don't cry uncontrollably to stand out, because you will stand out.    18:55 - Anne (Host) It's got to make sense.    18:56 - Andy (Host) Yeah, you will stand out, just not necessarily in the way that you want to, but being free. So many people hang so much on every audition it's like, oh, this is the job, and if I don't get this job I failed. And that's not true. Every audition can get you more auditions. An audition is really a way to establish or reaffirm a relationship, and you'll get opportunities and jobs in this business. For one reason Somebody wants you to have that opportunity, or that job.    19:30 It's not who you know in this business, it's who knows you. Ah, I like that in an audition. I mean there's nothing anybody can teach you that's going to guarantee you're going to book everything. But being yourself making simple choices, Okay, the first line is oh my God, I'm so happy, I'm going to make a simple choice, I'm going to smile, I'm going to be happy, I'm going to listen back to it, see if it needs more or less, maybe something else, but trying to be like what did they mean by? You know, let me stand out, let me get? You don't know enough at the audition point to stand out. You haven't heard the other auditions. You don't know about the conversations the casting director's having with the client. You don't know who else is cast. You don't know. You don't know any of the parameters. Sometimes somebody wants somebody who's done a million jobs because of a time frame or there's a relationship.    20:22 Sometimes we specifically don't want that person because that person has been heard on eight other projects. You don't know any of that. What you can know is that if we've reached out to you with an audition, it's because there's already something there that lets us at least believe we know who you are. I don't need some weird ethereal happy, I just need your happy. It's also not about not needing to be directed. It's about us getting you so we can ask can you be?    20:52 - Anne (Host) happier. Can you be less happy?    20:53 - Andy (Host) Yeah, keep it simple, there's a thing.    20:57 I call the four disagreements yeah, if you want to serve the script, don't worry about serving the script. If you want to get it right, don't worry about getting it right. If you want to play the moments, don't worry about playing the moments. And if you want to make the casting director happy, don't worry about making the casting director happy. Make the choice or choices that you feel are right for the script, for the context and any other information you may have.    21:23 Was somebody that I felt was really, really right for a role. I thought they were great, they were perfect for it. I read them, I gave my little write-up about why I thought they were terrific, sent it off. The director really, really liked them and it came down to that person and one other and the other person ultimately got it. That's what the director was feeling and it was a great person. I mean, the person who got it was terrific and I liked them and I worked with them all the time. But I was like, not the way I would have gone, but fine. So season two.    22:08 I ended up directing season two and I called this actor and I said do you mind if I submit you? And they said sure, what do you want me to read? I said I don't. I want to resubmit your audition from last season. And they said but it didn't get me the job. I said no, but there's different brains involved now and we'll see. And the person who booked it last time can't do it again because they did it last time and it's a different role. And I resubmitted it with the same write-up and they ended up getting a lead role. So we hang so much on everything that we micromanage, we microanalyze. Don't look for information you don't have and not going to have. Say this is what I feel is right. I'm not an idiot. I know the business, I know my choices are right. I sometimes book. I get asked to audition again. Do them, and I'm not going to say forget about it, because that's not always how brains work.    23:03 - Anne (Host) Try to forget about it. Yeah, exactly, don't let it mentally hassle with your yeah yeah, don't schedule an extra therapy session for it or anything. Yeah, exactly.    23:12 - Andy (Host) Yeah, I mean it'll be in your head and it's fine, but know that your audition is out there working for you. Just be you. Make simple choices, things you know you can do, things you feel are right and do them.    23:24 - Anne (Host) Now here's a question which I know is on a lot of people that are just getting into the industry, or students that are just getting into the industry. It's about the lack of. They're like the words are on the page and they don't make sense to the student, because they're talking about some visual that's probably already been done or it's in the process, or the person that wrote the copy knew what visuals were going to be along with it. But yet here's the copy, but yet no storyboard. There's no other information except for maybe like casting specs about oh, we want female age, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so then they're like well, how do I interpret this? How do I even because I'll okay, who are you? Who are you talking to? You know, create that scene. And when I'm just like well, look, as long as you're committed right, you're committed to those words and they make sense, you can make up whatever scene you want that allows you to be authentic and genuine with it.    24:15 And sometimes I'm very surprised at stuff that I've done. When I look at what comes out afterwards, I'm like whoa, okay, I didn't expect that. So why is that? Are we a step in the process where we don't get fed more information, like is there a reason why there's not more storyboards or there's not more you know what I mean information given at the time of the audition, or just curious?    24:36 - Andy (Host) I never asked anybody this and I will say this. It sometimes is as frustrating for me. I would love for the actor to have everything the actor needs, but sometimes you can't. Sometimes projects are secretive. Sometimes there actually is a storyboard. I'm just not allowed to tell you. Sometimes there's information about what show it is or what the product is. I remember when Apple first started advertising the iPhones and we were casting in person because it was a long time ago and we weren't even allowed to put iPhone on the door. We weren't even allowed. It would be secret product, you know, and people would be like oh, a phone that does stuff.    25:17 - Anne (Host) But we weren't allowed to say it.    25:19 - Andy (Host) So there'd be like on the door it would say like jet plane or freezer burn or just some random word, so you would know where you should go. I worked on a show recently where there were these athletes going to this really important game and one of them is looking out the window and it's starting to rain and he's nervous and he's like, wow, it's raining out there. And the coach looks at him and goes, yeah, but it's raining for the other team too. Whatever information you don't have, neither does anybody else.    25:54 Whatever problems you have, everybody else it's raining for the other team too Sure.    25:59 - Anne (Host) Sure, I love that. It's so nice for you to validate that you know, what.    26:03 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I mean.    26:03 - Anne (Host) Because I think a lot of times people are like but why, how? Come I don't know anymore. Why can't?    26:07 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I.    26:08 - Anne (Host) I said it's very rare in any of my jobs in all these years that I've ever gotten a storyboard. I mean after. I get it maybe I'll get a storyboard. There'll be times I'll get storyboards with a commercial audition, but I think it's gotten less over the years. Yeah.    26:23 - Andy (Host) You get what people feel you need, and they're not always right.    26:26 - Anne (Host) And a lot of times they change again. Yeah.    26:30 - Andy (Host) And it's very much. You get what you get. You don't get upset, but you will always have everything you need to do your job. You may not feel it, it may not be as much as you want, but it is enough to get you to a place where you can come up with specifics. Even if you make them up, you can come up with a.    26:50 - Anne (Host) I'm happy, I'm sad. I'm a wise ass.    26:53 - Andy (Host) This business. We do everything we can to give you everything you need to do your job and only be as specific as you can. Don't go to a place where you're making up a whole scenario so you can feel more complete as a performer that I'm not going to get. Does that make sense?    27:12 - Anne (Host) Yeah.    27:13 - Andy (Host) Know that when we send this out, we are ready to fill in these blanks in the job Right.    27:19 - Anne (Host) And usually, if I'm not mistaken, the voiceover is probably one of the tail end of the things to be filling in, or no Is? That not a correct Like. Usually the media is finished, the things have been written. Usually there's visuals somewhere along the line that have been made and then the last thing to be cast is a voice, but maybe not when we're talking on camera. I mean, that could be. That's a different part of the process.    27:40 - Andy (Host) Yeah, well, I mean, I would say probably, I mean anytime there's an actor involved. A lot of work has been done before. Yeah, before we even start talking to actors, and a lot of work's going to be done after the actors are gone. So, yeah, on camera, yeah, of course you're on set for a little bit longer probably than voiceover, but, yeah, often things are in place and we do our best to ask is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah, but there's a lot that happens before anybody asked me to do anything.    28:12 - Anne (Host) There's a lot that happens before the mixer's involved or anything yeah, yeah, I think it's good to know that we're only one tiny piece of like an entire project and sometimes, I think, in our own little worlds. We tend to forget that in our booths right. We're like oh the voiceover is like front and center and in reality there's so many other components to probably creating this project or commercial or movie or whatever it is.    28:38 There's so many other parts and we get so wrapped up in just our part of it that I think we have to realize that we're just a cog in the wheel so to speak, it's an important cog I mean, the machine won't work without it. Exactly.    28:50 - Andy (Host) But we do mesh. It's a great analogy, metaphor simile, simile, it's a great simile. Yeah, right, I thought I was an English teacher. There you go, simile, there you go. Oh, I love it. I love it, it's a great, yeah, simile.    29:10 Yeah, because, like I said, we're all worker bees yes, yeah, I know that we have a lot of the same issues too. There's stuff I can't know, there are things I'm not allowed to be a part of, and there's a lot of processes. So, yeah, just do your job. Don't worry about what we want or what somebody else is looking for or somebody else is hiding. We're not, we're not hiding anything. We just need you to be you, to know what that cog is.    29:26 And again, I have anxiety attacks when I get a job, sometimes because there's just so much stuff I haven't gotten to sit down with it yet. I haven't seen a script, I don't have a cast. Sometimes I don't have all the episodes of a show or all the spots in the commercial campaign. There's a lot I don't know either. And I understand it can be isolating. It could feel lonely, you know, when you're alone in your booth it could feel like everybody's working more than you, everybody's auditioning more than you, everybody in the industry does have that. It's been a few weeks. Am I ever going to work again?    30:02 - Anne (Host) Do I belong in this industry? It just becomes very dramatic sometimes.    30:06 - Andy (Host) I state something. I offered a potato chip. Did that offend somebody? And we spiral out. Every single person involved does it. Oh, nice to know, I'm not alone, right, I mean, because even after all these, years.    30:20 - Anne (Host) Sometimes it's so hard not to get those thoughts in the way. I swear that, like everything that we do, sometimes it's so hard not to get those thoughts in the way I swear that, like everything that we do, is sometimes it's not a God given talent.    30:28 Well it is, but it's the most important thing, is our mental state about it all, because it can affect so much I mean the fact is is that we can just like let those feelings and ideas spin around in our head and be like oh my God, did I do something to offend? Am I good enough? Am I? You know all that talk in your head is the stuff that I think is probably some of the most dangerous talk and things that you could have as a voice actor.    30:52 - Andy (Host) Yeah, it's. It's like Schrodinger's audition the audition is simultaneously good, bad and not submitted. There you go.    31:02 - Anne (Host) I love it. Oh my goodness. So then I would say, with the thousands of commercials that you have directed or produced, what? Would you say, is the cast that you've cast? What's the best thing a talent can do? In hopes of maybe getting cast. And what's the worst thing that you've seen a talent do that wouldn't get them cast?    31:22 - Andy (Host) Yeah, I don't know that I'm going to say the worst thing.    31:24 - Anne (Host) Or yeah, maybe not a smart thing. So yeah, that kind of tends to be pretty specific to a person.    31:30 - Andy (Host) And if it's the worst thing I've seen, it means probably only one person did it and so I'm not going to tell, I would say, the most probably impractical thing that.    31:39 I've seen people do is be like, okay, I'm going to be the person who is going to get the job. I'm going to try to fool you into thinking that I'm the person you're really going to hire, and so I'll get a read and somebody's clearly doing this and it's like well, I know it's a car commercial, but I didn't ask for that and that person is available and they work for what you work for.    32:04 If I reached out to you, I don't want an impression of that person or people that change their voice into a better version of you know, it's like if I called somebody because they have a certain depth to their voice.    32:19 - Anne (Host) This is my voiceover voice, right, yeah?    32:21 - Andy (Host) And if I haven't asked you to do that and I might I mean there are things but if I haven't asked you to do that, don't do that. It may even turn into that at the end of the day.    32:32 - Anne (Host) Isn't that the truth, right? It may turn into that at the end. That's what. I end up getting is people be like. But I listened to the commercial and it sounds just like this and I'm like but that doesn't mean that that performance got you the job.    32:43 - Andy (Host) Yeah, I've had people come up to me. Andy, I heard that spot, I could have done that. Why didn't you ask me to do that? And I'm like is it your first day in the business, have you never? It's like nobody did that. The person who booked it didn't do that and the client liked the director is directing and they call the client and the client's like can we hit this word a little bit more? And I feel like we're not pushing.    33:07 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and I always say that the person who's actually making decisions like it depends on, like what they hear in their head, right. And maybe they're a 65 year old person that's been listening to announcery commercials all their lives and that's what they hear in their head. And that's what ends up getting directed, or whatever it is. I think our voices become a product of the years and years that we've had and your musical, I know this right Of hearing things right.    33:31 And so that's why when we go in and we say this is what we think you want to hear, because we're mimicking over a period of years that's why in our head there's a certain melody Also. I think there's a certain melody also. I think there's a scientific and tell me and if you think I'm right, I think there's a scientific like reason why people, when they read words, they read them in a melody. That's very expected, because I can tell you exactly like.    33:52 Here's a paragraph, I can mimic exactly what you're going to do. If you're not thinking about like acting and you're just thinking about reading along a melody, I know that melody already and it's funny because I'm right like 99.9% of the time with that melody. And what is that? That's a scientific study that you read words in a certain melody.    34:11 - Andy (Host) Well, I'm not a neuroscientist, Damn it Andy, why? Not, you're everything else. That was my fallback, that was plan B, just in case yeah, I mean you've got that medical background. But the brain doesn't think in words, the brain doesn't think in images. The brain thinks in little synaptic flashes, billions and billions and billions of them. You're sounding like a scientist, thank you.    34:36 Thank you very much For anybody who's like questioned me on that, which, fine, by all means question. My answer is what's the word that keeps you balanced? What's the word that keeps your heart beating? What's the? Your brain doesn't need words. Your brain just does little flashy things like a microchip. Your brain's basically a macrochip, holds, I think, about 10 terabytes of information and it processes it certain ways. So when you look at a word, it doesn't actually see a word, it sees an image that sparks a whole sequence of synaptic flashes. The people that organized those words in the form of a script or a book or whatever learned the language. The way you learned the language. They learned it by hearing it. And even if it's your second language, yeah, okay, maybe there's some schooling, but at the end of the day, you're really learning it conversationally, by hearing people do it. So your brain doesn't just process. Okay, this is this sequence of words with a dot or a line at the end of it, or a squiggle or something.    35:36 It actually processes the whole thing as a rhythm. The rhythm that was born into it will probably be the rhythm that comes out. And yeah, is it 100%? No, sometimes there's typos, sometimes things are weird, but it's also why, like, there's this thing online where there's a whole paragraph and every word has first, last and middle letter in the right place, but the rest of the words are just jumbled.    36:03 - Anne (Host) Oh yeah, and we know what that.    36:04 - Andy (Host) yeah, I've seen those and you can still read them, you can still get the rhythm, you can still do all that. So acting is a physics term is one of the things I say in my class. Acting is doing something that has an effect on a receiver. You say something, it affects somebody else. It hits a series of triggers. A script is the same thing. A script is a series of things that will trigger you in most cases, which?    36:30 is why somebody leaves a word out of a line. You often may not even notice that word's not there. Your brain's just going to put it in. So, yeah, exactly like you said, you're going to be right most of the time, because it is how your brain now thinks. And sometimes you won't be. But those are flukes. Those are rare. They do happen. They're. Certainly those will be the ones that we look at and focus on, because they're messed up and we'll use them to define ourselves. Oh, I'm terrible. How could I have made that mistake? But the truth is, usually things go right, and so trust yourself. It's why one of the four disagreements if you want to get it right, don't worry about getting it right.    37:11 Yeah, don't worry about getting it right, absolutely yeah, read it listen to it and, to be honest, if it's terrible, throw it away. Nobody's going to hear it.    37:18 - Anne (Host) Right, it's so funny. I remember when I was teaching in front of the class and I would get so excited. Sometimes, like my brain, I'd be like, oh, and I want to tell them about this, and then what would come out of my mouth sometimes didn't follow, because I was so excited, but the funny thing is is that I never once had a classroom that didn't forgive me for that, do you?    37:35 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) know what I mean?    37:36 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, because I was so intent on sharing, and excited and passionate that they forgave the mistakes I made, and I truly believe that that's how you need to approach your copy, because it's more about how you're making me feel really. And, like you said, it's a series of synapses or reactions or the words are there to trigger something and so the acting is reacting, kind of thing.    37:59 And so that really needs to be built into all of your auditions, all of your performances in some form or fashion. And yeah, worrying about making it perfect is spending too much time worrying about making it perfect and not enough time worrying about how are you going to make someone feel or how are you going to engage with them and tell that story.    38:17 - Andy (Host) Yeah, it's not your job to not have a problem. It's your job to have a problem in a way that nobody else thinks it's going to become their problem. It's your ability to deal with it. Yeah, exactly, we worry about so much One of the things that I tell you have to do a do you can't, do a don't. I'm going to be happy. That's a do you can do that, I'm going to talk fast.    38:39 That's a do. I'm going to talk slow. I'm going to talk with an accent. I'm going to be really big or I'm going to be really small, I'm going to whisper Any of these things. These are things you can do. You can't do a don't. I don't want to be wrong is not a choice. I don't want to mess it up is not a choice. I'm trying to not be too fast, or I'm trying to not.    38:59 Those are not choices, those are don'ts. I would rather have you be too fast and ask you to slow down which is an inevitability of our relationship as director and actor anyway than have somebody who's delivering at the perfect pace but the copy is sounding like this and there's no humAnness to it. Cool, we learn more from our successes than our mistakes. HumAnness to it. Cool, we learn more from our successes than our mistakes. Everything you're good at, you've gotten good at by doing it right over, over, over, over over and sometimes messing it up, but being able to fix it because your brain knows what the right is. So whoever's listening to it or interacting with you in an audition is going okay. When they stumble, it's not going to be a big deal.    39:44 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly, we'll move on yeah.    39:45 - Andy (Host) Yeah, nobody cares.    39:46 - Anne (Host) I want the intent.    39:47 - Andy (Host) Yeah, nobody cares if you screw up, I mean, and the reality of it is is.    39:50 - Anne (Host) I mean unless you're being live directed right. I mean we're all human. Everybody understands that. If you're not and you're doing it later on, I mean good Lord, we can just edit it.    40:01 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I mean, so if you stumble on a word.    40:03 - Anne (Host) I mean, we all do it. I'd love to speak perfectly 100% of the time, but I certainly don't. And so, yeah, we all make mistakes and so it's just you fix it. And so when I'm having somebody read for me live, I don't care if they stumble, I want their acting, I want to hear their acting. And if they stumble, it's okay because inevitably they're going to get it right. If I'm paying them $10,000 for the job, I mean they're going to go do it until they get it right.    40:25 And so if you're going to stumble in front of me, that's fine. I just want to feel you and hear you.    40:30 - Andy (Host) Yeah, just don't have a meltdown in front of me about it, don't beat yourself up, don't apologize. I want to be a director. I don't want to be a therapist.    40:39 - Anne (Host) You probably are for most of the time.    40:41 - Andy (Host) I don't want to. I don't want to do that. Yeah, I mean like people can go bleh, you know, and do a pickup. I don't mind a blip, that's huge. But I've seen people really like beat themselves up and feel like they're less than or feel like they're stupid I mess up words that I'm making up.    41:00 - Anne (Host) I mess up words when I talk in everyday conversation.    41:03 - Andy (Host) Yeah, yeah, and I don't even have a script, I'm just making that up. Yeah, exactly.    41:07 - Anne (Host) That's brain to mouth.    41:09 - Andy (Host) Oh, I screwed that up, yeah there's a lot that happens between synapse and noise and there can be a problem at any step of that process, so worry less about that, bosses. Yeah, worry less. There's a phrase that I hate practice makes perfect.    41:26 - Anne (Host) I mean, I don't know, if you say it, I'm sorry if you do, I probably. No, I don't okay. Good, I mean because it's never happened.    41:30 - Andy (Host) I mean, how long does something have to not happen before we stop acting like it's going to? The purpose of practice isn't to become some theoretical idea. The purpose of practice is to make you comfortable with the inevitability of your imperfection.    41:48 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I like that.    41:49 - Andy (Host) Yeah, you'll be reading a sarcastic role, or a happy role or an angry role. You'll be selling hamburgers or beer or a car. Scripts will change, attitudes will change, voices may change, but messing up a word and dealing with it doesn't. Yeah, yeah, you know that's the same. A typo, that doesn't change you. Getting mush mouth or dry mouth, that doesn't change. So the purpose of practice to get you comfortable with the fairly limited number of ways you're going to have a problem yeah, yeah, yeah yeah so that it's not a big deal.    42:23 I like that.    42:24 - Anne (Host) I'm always saying if there's a mistake in the script, and especially well, for me it makes sense because typically long-format narration scripts go through rounds and rounds of approvals, through like corporate hands and even like your stuff, I'm quite sure, goes through many hands of approval and so like, if you're going to be that actor that's going to point out a mistake in a script, no, don't be that actor.    42:44 Be the actor that reads it exactly the way it is but makes it sound like there's no mistake you know what I mean, that's your job is to make it sound beautiful, like, even if a word's missing or I mean if it's really really obvious then you just graciously. Hey, here's an alternate take, just. But don't ever like point out the mistake. Goodness gracious, no, nobody wants to be that person.    43:03 - Andy (Host) And if you have an opportunity to ask say is there a missing word? Sure, by all means, but sometimes you just don't have that opportunity. Sometimes you don't have an answer it's raining for the other team too.    43:14 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that. It's like that's such a great takeaway. That's such a great takeaway, that and just not worrying right and not worrying about being perfect, and I think that that has just been a wonderful takeaway and I feel like we need to have part one, two and three of this interview.    43:30 I would love that it's so wonderful. Thank you so much for chatting with me today and imparting those words of wisdom. Are you available, Like if people want to find out more about you? I mean, do you have a website? I mean, is it one of those things that people can reach out to you?    43:47 - Andy (Host) I do have a website. I have Andyrothcasting.com.    43:51 - Anne (Host) Okay.    43:52 - Andy (Host) Yeah, that is my website. I can't really always talk about things I'm working on, Of course. I mean almost everything is NDA, but things I've done are there. If I do have a class coming up or something, it's listed there.    44:03 - Anne (Host) And speaking of though, we do have a class coming up. I'm going to have you for my VO Peeps guest director guys. So boss is coming up.    44:11 Make sure you sign up, and I will say that when I met you at Mavo, you were doing a couple of classes and people were just raving about you and so, and they were really like taking a lot away from your classes. So I can't wait, I can't wait for you to be and you're going to be in. What did we decide? It was, oh my gosh, it's like May, may, march.    44:34 - Andy (Host) April, april or April or May, I don't know.    44:36 - Anne (Host) Peeps check the calendar because he's going to be here and Andy Roth, make sure you sign up, and I'm so excited for that.    44:44 - Andy (Host) Me too, me too. I'm really excited, and every opportunity to hang out and talk with you. Yay, I will take every one of those opportunities, awesome.    44:52 - Anne (Host) Well, hey, I can't wait to do this again. Thank you so much, thank you For being with me today, and a big shout out to my sponsor, ipdtl. You too, can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, you have an amazing week. I just sounded Jersey. I think it's because I'm talking to you, Andy. I said bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, guys.    45:16 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble discuss the critical role of marketing in the voice acting industry. They explore various marketing strategies, including the importance of having a professional website, effective SEO practices, and the role of direct marketing. Learn about the impact of high-quality demos, the significance of direct marketing, and the potential returns when executed correctly. They touch on direct marketing services like VO Boss Blast, emphasizing targeted marketing without the spammy aftertaste. The BOSSes further explore the roles of online casting platforms, agent representation, and direct marketing, emphasizing the importance of diversifying marketing efforts and understanding the financial commitments involved. 00:01 - Rick MacIvor (Ad) Hi, this is Rick MacIvor with the VO Video Village YouTube channel. You know, when I started doing voiceover, I listened to the VO Boss podcast religiously. It was my go-to source of information about the industry and I still listen to it to this day. Every week there's an amazing new guest and Anne is able to really get some great information. I just love it. So thank you so much, Anne, looking forward to next week's episode.  00:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, amazing voiceover talents. Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my VO Boss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand the VO Boss Blast. Find out more at voboss dot com.  01:00 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series.  01:28 I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am ecstatic to be here once again with the one and only lovely Danielle Fanbel. Hey, anne, so good to see you. Thank you for having me back on the podcast.  01:37 Awesome. Oh my God, it's such a pleasure talking money with you.  01:41 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Oh, I love it, I love it.  01:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love money. I love money. I still have that segment when we talked about say it along with us bosses.  01:48 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I love money.  01:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, speaking of money, we've talked a lot about investing money and receiving money and saving money, saving money, but one thing that we haven't really delved into so deeply is investing in money in the market, right? Because, in reality, we can't make money if we don't have a market to sell to, and we really need to be able to get in front of people in order to say hey, I'm here, I have a product and you are absolutely able to buy. Yeah, marketing your services, yeah are absolutely able to buy.  02:23 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, marketing your services.  02:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, marketing your services. So, yes, it is absolutely related to financials, because you need to invest in marketing yourself money and time, and so I thought it'd be a good time to talk about the different types of marketing that are out there, like how is it that voice actors acquire jobs? I think there's four. Is it that?  02:46 - Danielle Famble (Guest) voice actors acquire jobs, I think there's four, four ways, right, Danielle? Yeah.  02:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's direct marketing. We'll go over all of these as we go through the podcast. So there's direct marketing there's pay to plays Sure, yeah, there's agents Okay.  02:59 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah.  02:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And there's one of my favorites, which actually just happened. The other day I got a direct inquiry on my website from someone that was looking to hire a voice my voice because they'd come to my website and they listened to my demos and they asked me what would it cost to do such and such, and so that would be your website slash SEO, which one of my favorite types, because I really didn't have to work hard.  03:23 I had to work hard to get the SEO, so that I could be found, but it's nice when people find me because they've already listened to me, and so that is what I consider a warm lead.  03:33 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it's actually one that you have so much more control over as well, because you can choose what you put on your website. You can choose how much SEO marketing that you do, how much money you put into your SEO marketing, and then, when it's out there, people find you and they know a lot about you because you've already put a lot of time and energy into cultivating and curating what they see when they come to your website.  03:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, yeah, I mean, since we're already on the topic, right, let's delve deeper into that.  04:02 Because when I ask people like, what do they have money to spend on, I mean it's almost like a last ditch effort.  04:07 I feel like that voice actors say, oh well, I've got to get a website up, but I don't think they understand the importance of having that online storefront because, honestly, that works for you 24 seven. If you have people finding you on your website, that is your marketing investment that is available day in, day out, 24 hours a day, and the cool thing about it is is that you can showcase your product with a good demo. By the way, when you showcase that product and they listen to that demo and then they inquire and you make it easy for them to inquire about your product, then I say that you haven't had to audition. You know it's a warm lead and that lead is usually quite effective because then, once they inquire, you can ask for more information and then start a negotiation process which, again, is absolutely under your control, and it's probably, I would say, one of the easier. Once you've got your website up and running and you've done the work to get good SEO, it's one of the easiest ways to acquire work and to get paid.  05:08 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Oh yeah, and it comes directly to you. So you're not there's no friction of having to speak to your agent or your representation or going through a portal on like pay-to-play sites. I mean, it really is just direct and you can really cultivate how that relationship how you want to. You can ask them if they want to do directed sessions with you so they can see your process a little bit more in depth. You control, like, how quickly you are or are not responding the negotiation process huge. But, yeah, having them be able to find you and typically that is finding you via, like a Google search or that's finding you through social media, if you've done any social media touches as well. They could even find you on certain websites that you are on, for example, like a pay-to-play website.  05:53 But then you have your demos. You also have your email address, your website, so there are different ways that you can sprinkle around the essence of who you are and your digital storefront, hang your shingle out there and you can point it back by using SEO. You can guest blog, you can be on podcasts, you can do so many other things that bring awareness to who you are. That points a potential client to you, to your website, and then, when it's there, then they can take a look and see everything that you've curated for them to see about you and possibly working with you.  06:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. And so think about it, guys, when you shop online, right. So these are important things to know right about your website. When you shop online, what is it that you're looking for? Or when do you shop online? Right, you shop online when you have a need, right, and so, typically, people that are searching at the Google prompt or they see something that you might have curated on social media, they've been sparked because they have a need, and this is the very essence of marketing, right, because you need to contact those people. They need to be ready, right, or they need to be preparing to be ready, or they need to be researching the buy, and you are there in front of them, and that is probably half the battle, if not the majority of the battle is to get there in front of them, and then, when they have the need, they're going to buy.  07:13 So I'm always talking about well, I shop for fashion, for lipstick, and when I have a need, I will go to the Google prompt or I will go to a website that I know, right, a brand that I know and I trust and I've purchased from before. So that's always a good reason to have a website, right, people who you've worked with before they'll go to your website again. They might be showing your voice to somebody else. They might just be coming to contact you again to get your email address, but having people come to you is, I think, the majority of the work, and so make sure that your website is easy to navigate, make sure that you have your product displayed promptly and like right up at the top so that they can hear your voice, and also all of your contact information so that they can get in touch with you.  08:02 - Danielle Famble (Guest) They know how to find you.  08:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and you don't have to do the audition. That's what I say. You don't have to be like it's 24-7, because a lot of times the other types of marketing we're going to talk about is your pay-to-plays or your auditions, because you have to do a little bit of work first and then you get cast, but with your website it sits there, available and it works for you, and so make sure your SEO, which is your search engine optimization, is up to snuff on there. And it used to be that people paid for SEO. I don't know, do people pay for SEO much anymore?  08:33 - Danielle Famble (Guest) It became almost like a scam at one point.  08:36 I do. I actually pay for SEO. I've paid some people to help me navigating, like acquiring backlinks and making sure that anything that is out there on my website or pointing to my website is something that Google likes and can help someone find me. If there are certain keywords that I want to be found for, if someone's searching in Google, I want to be able to make sure that I rank high for those. So it is definitely something that you can definitely invest money into and I would say, probably hire someone who knows how to do that, and that is a wise use of your investment. If that's what you choose to do, you can absolutely do that, and you can also just take care of what is on your website.  09:18 So make sure that your brand is exactly what you want people to see, and you need to reverse engineer it. Think like a buyer. Think like if I'm looking for a voice actor who sounds like this particular type of brand. Make sure that you've showcased that that's what you do and showcase it in a way that is easy to digest and that people can take it for what they need. For example, make sure your demos are downloadable. If they need to like, take off demos off of your website. If they know how to reach out to you, make sure your email address is on it, not just a contact form. Make it so that if you were a person who was looking for you, they would know how to find you just on your website.  10:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And make it quick.  10:03 - Danielle Famble (Guest) And make it quick Make it quick and painless.  10:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Quick and painless right. You don't want to make it hard on your potential clients, so we could probably have an entire episode and I know I have had previous episodes on websites and how important they are, but in terms of the marketing of you, they're critical. So don't leave that to be like the last thing that you do or the thing that you don't want to invest your money in. Because I'll tell you what, for me, when I shop, a website literally is the clincher for me, because I want to make sure that that website looks professional, that it looks trustworthy and it has the things that I want on it, that I can see I can get the information quickly, because I don't have a lot of attention span and I don't have a lot of time, right.  10:46 - Danielle Famble (Guest) And it's not a set it and forget it kind of thing too. It's something that needs maintenance, which also requires money and time, because certain plugins need to be updated, your hosting needs to be updated, and maybe you even need to refresh what's on your website. Maybe it's that your demos get updated, or any videos or social proof of what you've done needs to be updated as well. So this is not a set it and forget it. This is something that requires maintenance, and that maintenance does require time and money investments Exactly.  11:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let's talk about, like I said, we could go on forever about this, but let's talk now about the second method, and these are in no particular order. I'm just having to be thinking of pay-to-plays and online rosters, right, yeah, and there's lots of different places out there that can help you to write a great profile. If you are unfamiliar or you're scared about writing about yourself. Lots of places out there that have helpful hints on how to write a good profile and also have your products ready to upload or be on display, right. So have those demos and make sure those demos are. You know, again, that's your product, so make sure those demos are good demos, or those samples are good samples, and that they make you shine. Okay, not just like oh, I created a sample, let me upload it, because, again, you're going up now against other people At this point.  12:08 You're on a website that has other people that have products as well that are displaying, so you want your product to be the best product, right? You want your product to look the best, you want your product to sound the best. It's all in like the display, like if I'm working in retail and in clothing and if you walk into a store and it's just real pretty and it's got a good feng shui about it, then you're like, oh, I'm more apt to buy. So if you've got a demo and it just kicks butt, I mean, people, I think, are going to be impressed by that. And there's so many differing opinions on like, do you need a demo these days? Well, I think you need something that absolutely exemplifies and showcases your voice, and it's very best. And so a lot of times when you're beginning and you're just starting out, you don't know what you don't know and you don't have an ear for it.  12:52 So that's when you trust a good coach demo producer. But the pay-to-plays are an investment, right? Your demos, your product is an investment. Your online casting, well, pay-to-plays for sure are an investment, because there's typically a membership involved in that and online rosters can be an investment. It can absolutely be an investment of your time, maybe, I don't know. I don't know any online rosters, though, except pay-to-plays, that ask you to pay a membership fee. Do you?  13:19 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Danielle Right? No, I don't really know of any online rosters that ask you to pay a membership fee. That sounds to me more like a pay-to-play. But the idea of making sure that your marketing everything that you're offering on your portion of the pay-to-play is professional and showcases what you do well is really important, because you are, if you think about it, like being in a grocery store and you're in like the ketchup aisle. There are several different brands of ketchup.  13:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There are so many ketchups, yeah.  13:46 - Danielle Famble (Guest) So what are you choosing and why? So you really want to make sure that, like your portion of the digital landscape that you're taking up on, that pay-to-play represents who you are and the branding of it, like ketchup label, for example really showcases what it is that you do and what you do well, and again, how people can contact you. If it's through that pay to play, cool. If it is to your website, then that's sort of a second link to making sure that there's consistency.  14:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, now, in terms of marketing, right, what's important in the marketing of that, right? So, on your website, it was important that you had SEO, so people knew where to go, right, they know how to get to your place, they get to your online storefront, and that's done through the actual verbiage that you have on your website as well as, let's say, social media and emails that drive people to your website. Now, with online casting and pay-to-plays, right, online casting and pay-to-plays, they're doing a lot of the marketing for you as well, because their SEO already includes a lot of voice actors. So, when people are searching for that voice actor or corporate narration voice or whatever they're searching for, because they have a series or a bunch of voice actors on there, their SEO is already working in their favor. Plus, they're probably doing their own marketing because they want to get clients in.  15:01 I mean, that's like one of the roles of an online pay-to-play is to get clients in because they have a need, right. So at this point they have a need and now they go to the pay-to-play or the online roster and now they have to choose right, and again, like you said, just like in the ketchup aisle, you want to make sure your ketchup is the best and your ketchup stands out and that your brand is really represented well. And so the marketing investment there is your investment in that membership, as well as the investment of, let's say, your product right to have a great product so that it stands out, and the way that you're writing that description right, and the things that you can control on the pay-to-play or the online roster.  15:39 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, and recognize that you are in that particular marketing instance. You are attaching your business on the back of another business, exactly so making sure that you agree with how that business is running. Maybe you don't choose a particular pay to play because you don't agree, but know that you are attaching your business to another business, so that business's success is also your success. But you need to make sure that it's not the only way that people can find you, which is why, like this four-prong approach I think is really smart, just making sure to diversify.  16:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, you're right, don't put all your eggs in one basket, right? I've seen that around. You know you want to make sure you don't put all of your time and all your investment in just a pay-to-play, because there's lots of different ways to acquire work, and so that was the second way, and again, we could have a whole podcast episode just on pay-to-plays, which we might do. But our third one that we're talking about is agent representation, maybe management right and management right. And so in that marketing instance, right, the agents have a relationship right, or the managers have a relationship with either other agents or with potential clients, and those clients depend on the agent or the manager mostly the agent right Because the choices to them by just searching at the Google prompt are overwhelming.  16:57 There's a lot of voice talent out there, and so they might have worked with an agent for many years and they trust that agent, and that agent is the one that probably gets them the short list right. They have dependable, qualified voice actors on their roster. They have an audition which they'll give to the agent. The agent will then distribute it to their roster and then at that point they'll get back those auditions and the agent will shortlist, for the most part the agent will shortlist and then send that shortlist to the client and that kind of keeps the client's decision-making process make it a little bit easier, not as overwhelming- yeah, it's a little bit more of a curated way to get what you're looking for and again, that's connecting that to another business.  17:43 - Danielle Famble (Guest) So as long as that agent or manager or whomever has these robust relationships with potential buyers, then you're riding along on that relationship. So it also then means with your marketing is making sure that your agent knows everything they need to know about you, and so it's managing that relationship with your agent and making sure they have what they need. They have your most updated demos, they have your most updated work. They know if you have conflicts and you can't audition for certain things. It's making sure that you have watered that relationship and you managed until the garden of that relationship, because it's not just with your demos or what you've done, it's also making sure that that interpersonal relationship is healthy.  18:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, and so your financial investment with an agent or a manager right is usually going to be a percentage of the job that you get. So you're going to have to have number one to get a good agent, you probably need a really good demo. There's going to be the investment in getting a really good demo. Especially because agents and managers typically work in the broadcast part of the industry. You want to make sure that you have a tip-top demo because they're very busy people. Typically that's going to be like your demo is going to get you in the door. That in the recommendation probably.  19:01 So there's the investment in that. And then there's the financial responsibility. If you audition for the gig, it's going to be your time in auditioning right for your agents. And also, when you get the gig, it's going to be a percentage anywhere from 10 to 20 percent. And then managers typically are nurturing relationships between you and an agent, and then you're paying a manager as well a certain percentage. So there's your financial investment in that leg of the marketing.  19:28 And then finally, we have, after that, we've got the SEO. We talked about your investment, which was investment in your website, in your product, and then your negotiation skills, your pay to play or your online rosters, is your investment in the membership, in the investment in having a product that stands out and, again, having a great demo, having a way to make sure that your brand stands out for that. And then we just spoke about the agent manager. Right, your financial investment is going to be the percentage, it's going to be your demo and it's going to be your percentage that they're going to take once you get the gig. And what is our last one?  20:02 I've been cracking my brain like, oh God, what is the last one? We?  20:05 - Danielle Famble (Guest) have four. I was looking for the last one.  20:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was like I hope she pulls it out because I can't SEO pay to plays, SEO pay to plays managers, agents, oh, direct marketing.  20:15 Yes, absolutely so, and one of the reasons gosh, I should know that is direct marketing. I think is probably one of the most unpredictable and probably difficult, but can be really, really a great payback if you invest in it. So there's probably the most, I would say, unknown investment in direct marketing, because direct marketing is you contacting a potential client, and so how did you get those leads? It's either leads that you've curated yourself right Through mining the internet, linkedin, getting contacts at companies.  20:51 And yeah, and so you're reaching out to them directly, and so there's a whole issue of, okay, you got to be careful to not be spammy. So there's your time investment with that and you have to be careful that you're not spamming, because how many of us have gotten an email from somebody we didn't know that?  21:06 is peddling their services and we kind of get upset right and we say I didn't ask for this. So you have to be very careful, be spam compliant, which is why I created, by the way, the VO Boss Blast, and I don't want this to turn into a whole VO Boss Blast marketing effort by me. But I'll tell you why I created it. Because I didn't have a ton of time to do auditions right. I auditioned for my agents only. I didn't have time to be on a pay-to-play to audition 10, 20 times a day.  21:34 So I created a direct marketing product called the Boss Blast, which basically just gives me a list. I purchased a list that is curated by another entity and basically is continually updated. So that was not a cheap list. I don't sell the list to people, but what I do is I use a portion of that list and I market to that list for you.  21:56 Now, the one advantage of the direct marketing on that list, as opposed to just mining the internet and sending somebody an email saying, hey, I'm a voice artist and if you need my services I'm here and blah, blah, blah, which could be considered spam is that the people on this list have already agreed for the VO Boss domain to market to them.  22:14 So therefore I market for you on behalf of my domain and so they've already said it's okay to market. So I've got about 90,000 creatives on this list, and it's not that you couldn't buy that list either, but I spent thousands of dollars on the list, so I mean you can certainly make that investment yourself as well. The other thing that I invest in in order to send that email or to send out lots of email at one time, is investing in a mail service and I use ActiveCampaign, so I spend thousands of dollars on that as well. So in order to recoup those costs, I offer it to a small percentage of the voiceover community if they want to market and use a portion of that list. But the most important thing about direct marketing is understanding. So the investment is you're going to pay somebody to direct market for you or you're going to spend the time curating the leads and then that's not like something you can do overnight and you can't send to a thousand people at once.  23:06 However, you're investing your time in that, and typically in a marketing class too, because you want to make sure that you're not being spammy, and a lot of people need help marketing A direct marketing product like VioBoss it is a paid thing. We market for you. The one thing that you have to understand about direct marketing it's very effective. However, you have to understand that timing is everything on a direct marketing campaign, because I tell people like this I have a need for shorts when the summer comes around and I subscribe to the Old Navy list, I always use Old Navy. I don't know why, but I subscribe to many lists, but Old Navy sends me three to four emails a week. I've agreed to allow them to send me emails because I made sure I checked that box that they can send marketing emails, but I don't buy right, every time they send me an email, I do not buy. As a matter of fact, the only time I buy is when I have a need, right, do I have a need for shorts? Well, I've got 20 pair of shorts that I just bought this past season, so do I need another pair. I don't know. Maybe what will convince me that I need another pair is if I maybe figure out oh, but these are cute and they're the right, price, right or whatever it is. However, they've been packaged in that email to say, hey, either there's a sale and I'm not suggesting that voice actors create a sale, but I mean theoretically you could. I mean I have knowledge. I have knowledge that there's a new season, it's summer and these cute trending shorts are at Old Navy. I must have them right. So I have a need.  24:32 I click on the email right that says Old Navy's got new summer wear and I look at what's on that email and I have an interest and now I click right because I might want to consider buying. When I click and I go to that website, I want to make sure that website is trustworthy. I want to make sure. Well, old Navy, I already bought from them, so I trust them. But it could be a new brand. But when it's a new brand and I'm not familiar and I haven't purchased before, I make sure that that website looks legit, not familiar and I haven't purchased before. I make sure that that website looks legit and I do research to make sure that they're legit and then, if everything happens and the timing is right, I click to buy your voice acting product. Your voice is the same exact way. So I ask you, danielle, how many times does Old Navy need a voice to sell a product? Is it every day? It may not be every day.  25:21 - Danielle Famble (Guest) They might want to change their marketing once a season or every couple of years, you never know, but it's not daily.  25:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's not daily. So you have to understand when you're paying for direct marketing or your direct marketing on your own right. If you send one email to a thousand people on a list or no matter how that gets accomplished, you may not even get somebody. People might open the email but you may not get a purchase. So you cannot expect from direct marketing because it is such a timing related thing, you cannot expect that. Well, I paid someone to market for me and I sent out a thousand emails. I didn't even get anybody that wrote back to me. Well, do you write back to Old Navy when they don't? You know what I mean.  26:04 - Rick McIvor (Ad) Old Navy sends me emails three, four times a week Do.  26:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I write back to them to say no, I have no need, I'm sorry. Or hey, do you have shorts? Like no, I just don't. I look at it, I open it. Maybe I go to the website and click. So just keep that in mind when you are direct marketing.  26:22 And, by the way, for my VO Boss Blast, we do go over who opens your email because we can track that, because I purchased these services. My ActiveCampaign server actually tracks who opens the email and it tracks who clicks on email. So if we put a click in an email saying go to your website, I'll know that they went to your website. Now do I know if they purchased? No, I don't. Only you know that, only you know if they've sent an inquiry. Once they've gotten to that website, which was the very first marketing method we talked about right, they've looked at your website and if you're unknown to them, they look at it. They see something and it sparks trust and they listen to your voice. It's accessible and they like it. So then they get to know you by seeing your brand, which you've represented on your website. So they know, like and trust and that will give them a reason to buy.  27:11 - Danielle Famble (Guest) And what I like about your Old Navy example is, for a lot of people, and myself included, I've been personally really afraid of direct marketing because it feels like it's such a heavy lift and you've always got to be doing it and there's just so much to do and how do you have the time to send out you know a thousand emails or what have you.  27:31 But the point that you're making and the point that I'm receiving from what you're talking about is really that this is sort of the engine that is constantly running in the background to bring more leads into your business, or at least more eyeballs on your brand, so that they can see who you are. When they are ready, then they will be reaching out to you. But you have to constantly be doing it and it can just be a little bit at a time, but just one touch is not enough. So you have to continually put in the energy and the effort for it and then, going back to the finances of it, recognize that you will either be paying with your money or with your time. You can outsource these things and it is something that is possible to outsource that somebody else is doing it, which is exactly what the VO Blast is yeah, and people will say and my blast.  28:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you decide, after you send out an initial blast which introduces by the way, it introduces you to the list that I've created for you, and then after that, it becomes top of mind, just like you said, continually, they've got to be reminded, like I forgot, oh, I forgot, that Old Navy has got a new. If I don't see it in front of me, I might forget. So I need to be reminded. So, even if I don't open the email, I need to see the email coming through my inbox, right, that it's coming from Old Navy and the subject line will say, right, summer sale or summer fashion. And then I'll be reminded. Yes, now the time is right, let me click, let me go, let me see if it has what I want and I will buy if it, you know, if it suits all of my needs. So just know that reaching out to someone once a month, which is what we do in reality, I could be reaching out for you a couple times a month and I've thought about changing up my product offering to allow maybe two times a month. That is not spam, that is absolutely not spammy and I, by the way, I want to make sure that we're not spamming people, because if you yourself have been spammed, you know how off-putting that can be and that can take a promising lead and just kill it forever, because I've had people who have reached out to me trying to sell their services and I've been completely turned off and I basically blacklist them. So, as a provider of this sort of service, I have to be careful that VioBoss is not sending spammy messages. So keep in mind, if you ever are interested in that, you can find out more at that. Vioboss is not sending spammy messages. So keep in mind, if you ever are interested in that, you can find out more at the VioBoss website. It's called the VioBoss Blast and I can also talk to you about the specifics of it.  29:48 But I am very protective of my domain. I make sure that we're not spamming. Your email goes through my eyes every single time, so I want to make sure that I'm protecting my brand as much as I'm protecting your brand. But yeah, so your financial investment there will be in your time curating leads yourself right for direct marketing and then being careful that you're not spamming or investing and outsourcing it to someone like a VO Boss Blast like myself or somebody else to do your marketing for you. Be careful.  30:16 I will just say, if you're buying a list because I'm selling you marketing to a list, I'm not selling you a list. The list, I happen to know, is a reputable place that constantly updates their contacts so that if somebody doesn't work for the company anymore, they're taken off the list. I don't send emails to a stale list and I don't give you a list because of that Number one. You don't know how long that list has been around. You didn't verify those people and you didn't find out from those people that they've allowed you to send them email. You've not gotten permission.  30:47 So I'm the one who has permission based on the list that I am curating for you and then sending email out on behalf. So your investment there is, whatever it costs, to outsource the marketing and the generation of that email to a permission-based list. So, wow, so that was a lot. Yeah, that was a lot, but it's so important, bosses, that you understand that without people having a need for your product, for your voice, your business, won't exist for your product, for your voice, your business won't exist.  31:19 - Danielle Famble (Guest) And that marketing is a huge way to keep your business flowing, because either you are doing the direct marketing yourself or you are connecting your business to other businesses. But it does require a time and financial commitment to keep all of this up and it has to be done on a daily basis, and even including auditioning. Auditioning is marketing. So auditioning on all of these different platforms and your own is ways to market yourself as well. So this is just. It's got to constantly be happening in order to bring your business continual revenue.  31:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, and so there is a financial investment everywhere. It's so funny, danielle, because this series on money. It's funny how much people don't necessarily want to talk about it, but it's in every single aspect of our business, of our performance, of our auditioning, of our it's your time or your physical money that is involved and we have to be conscious of it and we have to be educated about it and we have to be accepting of it, right.  32:18 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, absolutely.  32:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Which is what our series is attempting to do for the bosses out there, danielle, and I'm so grateful that I get to talk to you about it, because, god, you just bring so much to the table. Thank you so much.  32:28 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Thank you so much, anne. I love talking about this and I think that having an open and honest dialogue about money, about how we can have it, make more of it, make it grow, how we can bring it into our lives and our businesses, is really what helps us impact the world around us, because it requires money and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's wonderful and, as we always say, I love money and I love talking about it.  32:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right, bosses, we love money. Go out there and market. Thank you again, danielle. This has been a really great episode. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week. Go out there and market yourself, and we will see you next week. Bye, bye.  33:16 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

You're not just a voice - a high-quality headshot can boost your marketing, branding, and online presence. In this episode, the BOSSes share expert tips from their experiences collaborating with headshot photographers to ensure a session that captures your true essence. From selecting the right outfits and makeup to incorporating signature looks, we provide insights on creating headshots that capture your brand. Authenticity is key, and with the right preparation, you can showcase your uniqueness and connect with your audience more powerfully. Remember, your unique features are assets, not hindrances, and capturing them authentically can lead to professional success. 00:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, through nurturing coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at Anne Ganguzza.  00:37 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm here with my lovely, lovely co-host, Lau Lapides. Hi, Lau Lapides, how are you? I'm great, how are you? I am wonderful, wonderful. So, Lau, this week it's funny how many times I usually ask my students for their headshots so that I can help promote their demos that we've just finished and I produced and I like to put them in my YouTube channel, and I like to put a headshot with demo and testimonial. And it amazes me how many voice actors don't really have a good headshot or don't have one. They're like, well, I'm waiting to get my headshots or I haven't thought about getting headshots yet. Or can I just give you this picture, and it's funny because I think headshots are so important for our careers, and so maybe we should talk about why do we need headshots and what goes into a good headshot.  01:51 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love that, annie. It's such a long time coming too, because I hear so many clients and some of my talent actually most of my talent now are really on the headshot wagon for their websites, for their whatever they're doing.  02:03 A lot of them are actors on IMDb, on Actors Access, on Casting Networks, you name it. They're kind of all over the moon, and so one of the things we talk about all the time is you have to have great headshots, not only for your marketing, your PR, for your business, but also it's important if you're ever going to do on-camera work, and some of them do really want to do on-camera work authentically. They're excited about doing industrials or training videos or whatever, and so we have to have industry standard, professional demos. I think one of the biggest problems we see, annie, is people going to their mother's brother's first cousin to shoot their headshots, and it's always bad when they do that, because you're doing that to save money and we have to be careful of that.  02:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that there's a lot to be said for a really good shot on your iPhone, because you know the cameras are getting better and better. However, there's a lot to be said for going to get a professional headshot, and I am a big believer in that, and anybody who just goes to my website or has ever gone to my website knows how much I utilize my headshots in my website for like every other page and it really helps in my marketing, in my branding, I mean.  03:19 - Lau Lapides (Host) And we get so tired. Annie, god bless you. I know you and I, who use our shots all the time. I get so tired of the same shots. Yeah, me too. I myself did three headshot shoots last year alone. I did three and I'm like, oh my gosh, it's like I'm an A-lister. No, I'm just a business owner. I'm a business owner that wants to have different feels, looks, appeals for different kinds of things, yeah, that work for different instances, and I'll tell you what.  03:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So my last headshot right, when we talk about what goes, it may be prepping for your headshot, but what goes into it, because I've been doing this for so long and I have the same headshot photographer that I've had for probably 10 years and she knows me very well and I know her very well. And this last time, when I went, I literally brought at least 10 different changes of clothes and that is kind of excessive. But I knew what I wanted, right, I knew the different types of shots that I wanted and it took me weeks to curate my outfits, but it really worked for me, right, it really worked for me.  04:18 And I got a variety of different shots and literally we shot probably the entire day, which you know it was not necessarily a cheap thing, but I have gotten so much use and so much footage out of these headshots that it's been really incredible, I mean honestly. And she even did video, and the video helped too, because I've got video that's on my website as well. And me in action me behind the mic, me doing different things. So let's talk about first of all. Tell me why you think it's necessary these days to have a good headshot.  04:50 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, 100% airtight, you need a headshot. I would even say that if you're not a performer, I would say that if you are working in banking, if you're a real estate person, if you're an attorney, you need excellent even for your LinkedIn Like that's become a big thing shots for your LinkedIn, but still the shots are not great that you're seeing in corporate America. They just really are not great. So I would suggest that you look up you Google or you go to your coaching team and say I need excellent photographers in my area within this radius that are actor headshot photographers, not business photographers, not wedding photographers, not child photographers, but they understand the sensibility of a professional headshot and I need to have that because I'm going to be putting out my photo everywhere, whether I'm doing it in my own advertising, whether I'm working a project and they want me to send them shots for that project.  05:47 I mean, there's so many Social media. Put your great shots on social media. There's so many reasons why you have to have it now right. That's one of the biggest mistakes I see happen. Just to save a few bucks is to go to someone who's inexpensive or go to a family member or try to do it yourself. I think it's very difficult because there's a certain sense that a headshot photographer has about lighting you, about your makeup, about knowing what translates on camera.  06:16 Yeah, I mean it's really everything, and it's the sensibility of making you look like you, not a glamorized version of you, but you on an awesome day.  06:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, back in the day, like the Sears or JCPenney.  06:30 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, glamour shots. No that you would just go and they all had the same background.  06:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I love those, but they were all very much like a similar style, right, and so I think what we need to do as creatives and entrepreneurs is, no matter who you are actually, I think the more you can showcase your personality through your headshots, the better and more effective they will be, and so, for me, when I was picking out my outfits, I was trying to figure out okay, who am I, what aspects of my personality do I want to showcase, and where am I going to use these headshots? And so I knew that I would use a lot of them for my website.  07:04 I knew that I was going to use a lot of them for social media advertisements about what I do, so of course, I needed props. Right, and props were. I brought every single pair of glasses, by the way, and on my Ann Genguza coaching page you'll see a video shot of me with about 12 different pairs of glasses, because that's just part of my personality, right I?  07:22 love it. And also I'm hoping that some eyewear company will say oh Ann, please be a brand ambassador for us because I love glasses. But I did. I brought like 10 different pairs of glasses.  07:32 It was something I literally had to plan when I was going for my shot and I had to make sure that she knew that I had at least eight different looks that I wanted to shoot and that usually they charge based upon how many looks and then they charge on how many digital.  07:47 Because she gave me all digital shots and because I've known her forever, I'm like just give me all the shots, right, and then I'll pay you to edit the ones that I think I'll use ultimately. And that is a time consuming process, but it was definitely well worth my time and I paid for makeup and hair on the day and I wanted to make sure I had three different hairstyles as well. So that is like okay, when am I going to take the straight hair shot? And then we have to have time to curl my hair and when am I going to take the curled hair headshot? And then what am I going to do? Am I going to keep it all in front of me? Am I going to maybe put half of it back. So there's all sorts of different looks that I was curating for those headshots.  08:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely. I think those are all important points, and you're a pro and you've been doing this for years and years and years, and so you're at a point where you're doing really a pro shot. You're doing a pro shoot. That's really also full body shots, and that's something— I did full body shots as well. I think there's a couple steps that I think the early entry person needs to follow so they don't get overwhelmed, and the first one is finding a photographer and finding someone within a geographical distance that you're willing to travel, and finding someone within your budget. So you have to understand what your budget is and what the market rate will bear and put those people by your coaches so that they can okay it for you, so that you're not going to a charlatan or someone who really doesn't have a gallery of actual headshots, but really more of a wedding photographer. You have to be careful of that right. So it's really selecting the right photographer for you and also knowing am I doing headshots only or am I doing full body shots?  09:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) as well.  09:22 - Lau Lapides (Host) And that's another decision to make, which will cost you a lot more money to do that.  09:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's more of an investment to do that and, for the most part, most professional photographers have a website where you can look at their portfolio and see the type of shots that they've taken before and get a cost estimate. And I will say that this is something that you have to prepare for. You have to actually say I am going to make an investment in my headshots because they are important for my business.  09:47 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right, they are important and don't avoid it, don't treat it like the plague, don't say oh.  09:51 I hate it, I don't want to do it. That's not a good start. You want to really discipline your mind to say I need this because I'm reaching out to my audience, I'm reaching out to potential clients and they need to see me, they need to see who I am. So once you select that photographer and you figure out what your budget is and decide am I doing headshot, which is typical, like a bust-up shot, or am I doing a full-body shot? Right, and you can discuss that with your coaching team easily. Now you have to kind of figure out what am I going to bring and I would say for a headshot.  10:23 What you said was not excessive. I say you bring the 5 to 10 tops.  10:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It took me three trips from my car to the studio with all of my stuff oh, it takes a lot of trips and shoes, because I knew I was doing full body shots. I had to do shoes. I had boots and then I had jewelry. I brought my entire jewelry like case. I had packed that because I wanted to switch out jewelry as well. Yes, exactly, and ultimately it was a long day. I was exhausted. However, it was amazing. And then I did another photo shoot with the same photographer. That was a different style. It wasn't four headshots for my website or my business. It was Jerry and I, and it was Jerry and I at the beach. I always wanted to do a shot at the pier with Jerry and so I said well, let's make it a full day. And again, I curated outfits and I actually took photos of myself in the outfits and then got people's opinions or looked at myself, because sometimes what you think looks great and when you take a photograph of it, sometimes it doesn't look the same way.  11:21 And so I highly recommend that, if you can, you can get like a really inexpensive like stand, a really inexpensive set of lights, which I do for a lot of my marketing for brands that I work with for clothing, and your iPhone right, I mean, that's how I do all of my shots for that and a really good editing software that you can have on your phone, which I have all of these things, by the way, linked on anganguzacom in my shop section, because I love them and I feel like for any voice actor it's good. Like the lighting that I have in the studio is important. Lighting is, oh my gosh, almost everything, and you also have to be considerate of where's the studio. Are you going to do it inside or outside? And inside do they do it with natural?  12:06 I think natural light is the very best lighting, and so if they have a studio that has a lot of windows, that you can be facing the windows, because that's your best light on your face, and so you can practice on yourself and take lots of different pictures and figure out what sort of positions, do I have a good side, do I have a bad side, do I have preferences that you can then communicate to your photographer and also, like I said, curate some outfits and take some pictures of yourself in those outfits to see how they look in a photo, and then maybe you can even send, like, here's a look that I was thinking of.  12:40 You can even send those to your photographer ahead of time to see what they think. That's just because I have a really good relationship with mine, but it does help a lot to get their professional opinion and she knows where to go with that camera to get the best picture of me, because she probably took, I think, on that day, maybe a thousand shots and I think I ended up with 500 of them, but I'm using maybe 50. So, but still, that's a lot of shots.  13:06 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's huge. That's a lot of shots, I would say, for folks listening in who are going for their first time, or maybe their second time, but their first time in. It's scary it is. It's a scary. You've got to get comfortable in front of the camera. It can be upsetting, psychologically demanding, to look at yourself and you want that photographer to work with you and show you what they are shooting, as they're shooting it.  13:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely, and ask to see those photos as they're shooting them, deal with what you see, and that's something that you've got to do.  13:42 - Lau Lapides (Host) Whatever you need to do, meditate, drink water, see a therapist, whatever you need to do, do not unload on the photographer. They're just there to shoot you and make you look great. But the psychological hurdles that you're going to need to overcome with dealing with your age, your weight, your style I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be transparent. Mom is going to tell you the truth. It's going to be hard, it's not going to be easy.  14:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's like looking in a mirror and it's hard. And if you hate yourself in the mirror?  14:13 - Lau Lapides (Host) Most people do not like it. They do not like the experience, they do not like looking at themselves. So it's just like listening to yourself, right, annie? You have to do it a lot and get used to it and know that that's kind of a necessary part of our industry. I would say start out simple, like, just start out with doing a headshot, having some great tops, layer it, bring in some jackets, some sweaters, right? Nothing busy. Don't make sure you don't have words, sequins, shiny things on your clothes. See what I'm wearing today. It's awesome, but not great for a headshot, because it's too busy looking, unless it's what we call a personality shot. Yes, so a personality shot is not a standard headshot. It is different.  14:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's what I'm going to talk about. I think the personality shot almost always sometimes looks better.  14:59 - Intro (Announcement) I mean there's a place for each right.  15:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, the personality shot is like what is it that makes you you? What is it that makes you laugh? What is it that you're passionate about? Like, do you have a hobby that you're passionate about? I mean outside of voiceover. Right, for me it was, you know. I'm just trying to think what I did. I mean because I loved. Well, I did the whole family shot by the ocean, because we love the ocean. I loved horses.  15:20 So you know what I mean. I have different aspects. I have my cowboy boots. I always do a business shot.  15:26 - Lau Lapides (Host) I always do a corporate shot right. There's a mom shot. There's different roles you're thinking about, of what you give off, what you play, whether you're an actor or you're not an actor, like what's your perception of what you give off to the world, and you want to match that for sure. So, starting with the headshot, I think is great, annie, to just start sort of simply like that and thinking about how do I wear my, how do I want to wear my hair? Do I like it down? Do I?  15:49 - Intro (Announcement) like it up.  15:50 - Lau Lapides (Host) How do I like my makeup? You know, having that makeup artist in hair is so important, because you translate so differently on camera than you do in real life.  15:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, even for, let's say, guys who are not necessarily wearing makeup, or is that something that they should consider when taking headshots?  16:07 - Lau Lapides (Host) No, honestly, I don't recommend men to have makeup. I just say listen, have a good powder on hand, have some great chapstick.  16:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, because you don't want the shine.  16:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, they can do it in.  16:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Photoshop. I will say something about glasses, because you have to be careful about the angle. So, like right now, you can see as I look up towards the light. You can see the reflection in my glasses. Right, right. So the photographer needs to know the angle right of the lighting that they have in there and that it's not reflecting off the glasses. There are a lot of times you can get frames without any lenses and sometimes this is the best solution Actually the photographer Fig.  16:42 - Lau Lapides (Host) Good, See, this is the difference, you guys Listen up, Between a wedding photographer, a child photographer and an actor photographer. One of my photographers was so pro, he gave me his own glasses, his props, and he popped out the lenses and he said here you go. And I said, really, you don't want the light. He's like no, no, I don't want any reflection, I just need the rims, Because they have to try to get rid of it in the end.  17:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And for me, I need my glasses. I cannot literally read or see without them, and so they are prescription and, the funny thing is, Lau. If you look really closely, you're going to see one of my eyes is bigger than the other, and that's because one of my eyes is much worse than the other and my lens is thicker, so it's magnifying my eye. Now for me.  17:24 - Lau Lapides (Host) I thought you were going to say you have a fake glass eye and you're going to plop it out For me. I was like, oh my God, I didn't know that.  17:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For me, I call my other eye the droopy eye because it looks like it's drooping, like this one looks like it's drooping and now that I've just pointed it out for everybody. But when I do my Teachable Moments videos, I will have days when I'm tired right and my one eye really droops more, and also the angle of the camera has a lot to do with it. So if I'm looking like this, you're not going to notice that this eye is bigger, but if I look this way, you're going to notice this eye is much bigger than this eye. That's fun.  17:53 So it is a thing, and it's only because the lens is thicker, the magnification is thicker, and you know your angles too.  17:59 That's how much I've been on camera and you know you are very aware and that's something you can communicate to your photographer. But even If they're good, they're going to make you look good. They know the angle, they know where to come, they know where to place you within the light. They're going to make you feel good about yourself. So, if you can find Now, I have been all different weights, I've felt all different ways about myself and I've needed headshots, and so she has gone through my lifetime with me. I feel the last 10 years she's been with me through heavier times, thinner times, and always that affects how I feel about myself and how I feel about myself in front of the camera, and she has always. I've trusted her with my life because she's always been able to make me look good or feel good about myself. That, to me, is priceless right, that she is worth every penny because she knows me and she knows how to take a good picture of me.  18:50 - Lau Lapides (Host) So you know, Annie, what you're saying, I think, is so treasurable, because and you may only meet this person once and not see them again or not see them for a long time but how that photography team makes you feel about yourself is so important. You don't want them to be overly critical, you don't want them to be rushing, rushing, rushing, rushing. You don't want that factory approach, you want a personalized approach. So I would say listen, talk to them first. Get a quick Zoom meet, get a quick in-person meet, if you can.  19:20 - Intro (Announcement) Sure, absolutely To get engaged.  19:22 - Lau Lapides (Host) Do they want to spend a little time with you? Are they going to rush you in and out of the door and not care which? A lot of photographers like that too. Right, Annie, you've met them here's the thing right.  19:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think there's a special skill in smiling right, in smiling for a camera, right, my husband for the life of him. Like every time I tell him to smile, he's like and it's like, really fake. Yeah, it's really fake. Like so many people don't understand how to smile for the camera. Now, it is not a natural thing. I think most people just feel like they have to put on this particular look.  19:51 Now a good photographer and or their assistants are going to be able to make you smile, a natural smile, Because sometimes they'll just say, okay, smile, and you'll be like you know, and that you're not going to like any of your photos because it's not real, so maybe they can tell you a joke and then take multiple pictures while you're laughing Right, and that's usually the good, almost candid shots that I think are always like the award-winning headshots, when you're just like you're like right in the middle of a natural emotion.  20:19 - Lau Lapides (Host) Great minds think alike. That conversation, you know this is so funny. There's so much bridge into what we do as voiceover talent. It's like are you authentically real, Are? You talking to the photographer as a person. Are you having conversations, are you?  20:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) talking about life. Can I just say this? This is absolutely parallel to when we tell people to smile when they're reading copy. Right, there's a difference between smiling like hi, I'm Ann and I'm going to read this copy with this fake smile Notice how I have a fake smile and it's a fake smile and it doesn't sound good because my mouth is like in a position that is not making me sound.  20:53 - Lau Lapides (Host) I can see it in your eyes too, your eyes.  20:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly For me. I'm happy and bubbly anyway, so I can just think a smile. I don't always have to form my mouth in a smile, but if I tell some people to smile, it'll make them sound a little less serious. So notice how, if I'm just like oh my God, like Lau, you just made me laugh, right, that's such a better smile. So what we try to tell you in voiceover when we're saying I want you to smile, I want to hear that smile in the copy. I don't want to hear a fake smile, just as in photography. We don't want to see a fake smile. We want to see a real smile. We want to see real emotion. We want your personality, your heart to be shown and your happiness and your joy.  21:29 - Lau Lapides (Host) And I would use hacks like bring in a prop or have like I have my coffee in my hand right now, because my coffee is kind of like connected to me by the hip you know, I always have a water or a coffee in my hand.  21:40 It just makes me feel like a person. It makes me feel like I'm living life. It's just me, right? But what makes you feel that way? Maybe you'll have a little teddy bear in your hand, or you have a little stress squeezer. We're not going to see it on camera, yeah, just like we don't see it in your voiceover, but maybe I need that so that I can make myself laugh or talk to the photographer about you know, I'm kind of nervous, I'm kind of stressed.  22:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A lot of people are, and a good photographer will be able to like either make you laugh or get you to be more natural or more relaxed and comfortable. I can't how many times did we go for those school photos?  22:16 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh God, I was thinking about school photos. I can't believe you said that, annie. Do you remember the days where we had the little clip-on animals for our collars.  22:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They were a thing.  22:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) So, like my fourth grade shot, I have a clip-on raccoon. It was like yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we're still kind of doing that when we get in front of a camera. We're still kind of like deer in the headlights. You have to be careful about that.  22:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I would say even warm up, like my husband, who has the best smile ever when he gets in front of the camera. And, by the way, I will tell you my husband, I got him. He's now hired to work alongside me with one of my brands as an influencer. He's hysterical, he's really great on camera. But whenever I say when he wants to pose to do photos, right, I mean they're like okay, now smile and he'll go and it'll be like the most stiff. I'm like no.  23:02 - Intro (Announcement) Jerry, just like say something.  23:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let me just tell you a joke, Jerry oh my God. Remember the other day when we did this, and then I'll get him in the middle of a smile and it completely changes the photo. Yeah, so it's something that how many times can we do a selfie? Right, we can take selfies, we can practice. You can see what you look like when you fake smile. So really, just practice as well, and it's not a bad idea to get yourself a tripod and a remote control little.  23:30 Blippi, that works via Bluetooth with your iPhone or Android so that you can click a picture when you're standing there right and do a pose and then just do multiple pictures and figure out. Oh okay, I like myself when I'm angled like this or when I smile, I can't lift my head up too high, or if I put my chin down just a little bit, right, you can really learn what works for you and I think there's some valuable information in spending 20 bucks and getting that tripod and getting that little clicker, which I think costs $20, if not less, and connecting up via Bluetooth with your phone and, boom, taking the picture, taking multiple pictures and getting lighting, by the way, which won't cost you more than I'm going to say. The lighting that I have won't cost you more than a hundred bucks.  24:12 - Lau Lapides (Host) Put those on tripods, you could even get just a ring light.  24:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Just get a ring light right, I don't love ring lights because I have glasses and I think the ring lights show like they're very obvious. So I have lighting, like I have in my studio, which are like kind of the soft pillowy LED lights that have the big what do they call those? The big puffy like white coverings over them.  24:33 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, they're like a soft box kind of lighting. Yeah, that's it.  24:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have a soft box, I have two soft box and I make sure that I'm standing in front of a window, because then you have the three areas of light which and I make sure that I'm standing in front of a window because then you have the three areas of light, which is critical for good lighting.  24:46 - Lau Lapides (Host) Now I get your secret, Annie. Now I know why you look like you're 18. That's your secret. It's good lighting. Why does she look like she's 18?  24:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What is going on with her lighting? Yeah, Awesome. By the way, links. I'll link that in the show notes.  24:57 - Lau Lapides (Host) Love it Eyelines. That's something that know about on-camera actors. Vo talent don't know about that. It's important for you for when you do your photo shoot and that means where my eyes are focused. So in a headshot shoot, they are focused directly at the camera. But the caveat is especially for VO talent, who you're showcasing your business as well. I would suggest you bring to the studio your microphone, your headphones, because they're easy to throw in a bag, you don't have to worry about it and take some of those shots.  25:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Take a cable too. Don't forget the cable, because if you take a photo without the microphone, with a cable, it's very obvious to all of us.  25:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) Unless you're a podcaster and you're sitting down, so that's up to you. But yes, take a cable and be in action, and you may not be looking at the camera. You may be looking at your script, you may be in an action shot, which is really great, but your eyeline is going to give away. Are you directly involved in what you're doing or are you not involved with what you're doing? A headshot for an actor should be direct address to the camera, but for a voiceover talent, you'll have that, but then you'll have. You know, maybe I'm talking, maybe I'm doing this, maybe I'm doing that, and that's kind of cool for people to see you in action you know, Good photographer will be able to tell you where to look.  26:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what's interesting is, remember we talked about my droopy eye. Okay, so because of my droopy eye, which became so much more noticeable as I needed a thicker lens, my photographer, she's like okay, normally you are looking right in the camera, but I think I need you to look above the camera slightly because you've got that eye and I'm like yeah, so you'll notice. Right now I'm looking at the camera, laura, right?  26:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) I never knew this. This is news to me.  26:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Watch me, now I'm looking at the camera Now I'm going to look slightly above the camera, and it makes a difference, right? Oh my God, that's crazy. Right, it makes a big difference See.  26:45 - Lau Lapides (Host) I have known you for how long? A couple years.  26:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I never knew that. See, now everybody's going to be looking at my eye. They're going to say, oh, droopy eye, no no, it's because it's a choice.  27:04 - Lau Lapides (Host) It's all your choice. Oh, I love it. Talk about strategy.  27:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And guys, I mean here's the deal. Like I so much put myself in front of the camera every day when I was young and I had a very severe case of lazy eye where I was almost blind, so my eye was in the corner, this bad eye, the one eye that looks bigger, it was very much in the corner, and when I get tired, right still, my good eye does all the work, even with glasses. Oh, how interesting, because it's been trained since the year three yeah, the year three of my life, since I've worn glasses since I was three and so even with glasses, my good eye does all the work.  27:36 So when I get tired this eye, it will tend to kind of go a little bit in the corner, and I notice it all the time. A little bit in the corner and I notice it all the time. I mean, I used to get made fun of it and so you may think I'm completely confident in front of the camera. But I know, like I know okay, my eye will tend to drift if I'm tired or I might have to like really like pay attention to look a little brighter. That's right, but it's good to know yourself.  27:57 It's good to photograph yourself sake of vanity, but for the sake of knowing you and feeling good about yourself in front of the camera. That, I think, has done wonders for me over the years, because before I did a bunch of on camera teachable moments and those sorts of things, stuff that I put out in social media I wasn't on camera a lot and it was something that I had to practice, that to get much better at. And talking to the camera is something that is important for your headshots. Addressing the camera and it's kind of like really thinking about hi guys, you know I'm looking at the camera and like you're really speaking to somebody, just like we do behind the mic. Right, we think about speaking to someone as we're behind the mic. So think about speaking to someone behind the camera and that will engage your face, it will engage your personality, it will engage your heart and it will help you take a better photo. I am convinced of that.  28:48 - Lau Lapides (Host) God, what a great convo this is. I wish I had this convo for myself 30 years ago. One more thing I want to make mention. This is great how you figured out how to like cheat all the insecurities and all that stuff.  29:02 But I do want to say, I do want to say to all the folks that are like, yeah, I don't know how to do that, or I don't know if I'd get over it, or I have this or I have that, we love imperfection. Yeah, we love it. In fact, we look for it, we hire it and we work it. So if you have anything that you consider to be outside of a norm or outside of a convention, whether whatever it's a lazy eye or whether it's this or that, don't feel the need to hide it, don't feel the need to put it aside, shout it from the rooftops.  29:32 Now we're actually looking for people I have droopy eye who have all these so-called imperfections right which are real person stuff.  29:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that can be a really great thing it is and hopefully that's relatable to some. I mean, maybe not everybody has droopy eye, but there's so many people are like you're always so together.  29:52 - Lau Lapides (Host) I'm like, really I got a droopy eye.  29:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know I try to be but I got a droopy eye, but that's okay. Yeah, but they don't care, they don't care, they're attached to it. Here's my imperfections, guys. I mean I don't want to. I don't want to be a picture of something that I can't ever achieve. That kind of thing you don't want. A goal that you can't ever achieve.  30:09 That's a good way of putting it Like let that photograph, let that headshot bring out the best in you, showcase the best in you, because every one of us has a beautiful, beautiful quality, every one of us is beautiful. And have that confidence, like remember you were talking about that?  30:23 Hollywood had a term for it Ugly beautiful people, the beautiful ugly and I don't even think I think everybody's beautiful, I don't even like the word ugly. I think everybody's beautiful. They all have a beautiful quality, everybody has a gorgeous voice. They have a unique quality that connects us together as human beings and connects our hearts together. And so, guys, you are beautiful and you are absolutely a face for photography and a face for a headshot and a face for VO, absolutely.  30:49 - Lau Lapides (Host) And there's many companies out there that really exploit that. They really celebrate that. I can think of an amazing agency in New York Funny Face Talent, real person talent. There's probably a bunch of them out there that they want you to think, oh, I have a weird face or I'm not beautiful looking. Oh well, we're going to get you a lot of work because a lot of people relate to you. Right, there was an actor, annie, who was this actor. He was very big In the early 2000s, he was a heavyset guy and he had this eye condition where his eyes fluttered up and down.  31:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I'm not sure.  31:26 - Intro (Announcement) And you saw him in a lot.  31:27 - Lau Lapides (Host) He was a regular on X-Files, huh, and he was a fantastic actor and his eyes fluttered up and down. It was amazing to watch him work in different roles and how he utilized that condition to go right into his roles and to sort of infuse the energy in his role. Some of his roles were scary. Some of his roles were demonous. Some of his roles were good. Some of his roles were like fatherly, but he always used it in his favor. He never tried to hide it.  31:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I thought that was it. I mean, that was cool. Be out there and be confident, guys.  32:02 - Lau Lapides (Host) Just technically. One more thing I want to throw in, and that is when someone shoots you, a professional headshot photographer should be giving you everything they shoot. They'll go ahead and get rid of all the shots that are like the in-between shots, the blurry shots, the shots that really like you're not in position but they really like Annie was saying she's kept 500 shots, maybe they did 1,000 shots.  32:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I keep them.  32:30 - Lau Lapides (Host) I can do a little cropping myself. Yeah, one of the mistakes, annie, I see people make is they'll show me what their shoot looks like and I'll see watermark on everything. And I say be careful of that, because when they shoot you now it's changed they used to own those, they no longer own those. So when they shoot you and you get 200, 300 of your best shots, those are yours, those should be yours. Now, if they're going to edit you and you're going to pay to have them edit which a lot of people do then they're going to charge money for that, as they should at their time. But otherwise, those are your shots and you should be able to keep those shots Absolutely.  33:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Your property and they should be up in color. You don't do black and white anymore. Guys. Make sure you get all the shots if you want them, and they are yours. All right, excellent conversation, La. I loved it. Guys, I'm going to give a great big shout out to IPDTL. You too, can connect and share like bosses, and find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week, bosses, and go get your headshots, and we'll see you next week. Bye.  33:28 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.