The Copywriter Club Podcast

Ken McCarthy, also known as the “World’s Most Secretive Copywriter” and “Mr. Internet,” is the guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, jammed full of great advice for any copywriter who wants to grow beyond simply writing for clients. Ken may be the only guy who can talk about speed reading, the origins of the internet, Johnny Rotten, making soup, Tested Advertising Methods, and of course, copywriting—and have it all make sense in the end. Listen and learn: •  how Ken become the “world’s most secretive copywriter” •  what you have to do to “get good” at copywriting •  Ken's recommendation about how to grow your business beyond copy •  the “stone soup” method for creating a product •  how to avoid the “me too” trap—perhaps the biggest mistake people make online today •  the marketing secret Ken learned from a punk rock drummer •  the books he recommends to give you an unfair advantage over the other copywriters Told you it was jam packed with good stuff. It's all here in episode 36. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Ben Settle Eugene Schwartz Tim Ferriss AIDA Mark Graham Mark Andreessen Jim Clark Ted Nicholas The link to Ken’s interviews (updated) System Secrets Martin Atkins Nine Inch Nails Johnny Rotten Scientific Advertising Tested Advertising Methods The Robert Collier Letter Book Gary Halbert Ken’s Copy Clinic My Life in Advertising Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you can hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 36 as we chat with Ken McCarthy, who’s been called the world’s most secretive seven-figure copywriter, about how he has built his business from internet pioneer to where he is today, the most common mistakes writers and other business owners are making online, the books and courses he says will give our listeners a competitive advantage over other writers, and whatever else comes up as we talk. Kira: Hey, Rob. Hey, Ken, how’s it going? Ken: Hey, good. Rob: Ken, welcome to the podcast. Ken: Thank you very much, glad to be here. Rob: We’re excited to talk with you. You’ve got a wide range of experience, and I think we could probably go on for hours and hours, but since our time’s a little bit limited, let’s start with your story, where you came from and how you became the most secretive copywriter in the world. Ken: That’s a really interesting headline or tagline. That was written actually by Ben Settle. He wrote it for me, and he’s a great copywriter, and it was written to actually promote a copywriting info marketing course that I have. He wrote it based on having taken the course. Rather than me write the letter, one of my students wrote the sales letter based on what he learned from me. Now that being said, Ben was already a really good copywriter when I met him. I didn’t teach him everything he knows. He was already really good, but the letter that he wrote was based on the learnings that he got from the course. Anyway, that’s how I became the most secretive seven-figure copywriter. It’s fairly accurate. In fact, it’s exactly accurate. Very few people think of me as a copywriter, which shows how good my copy is. They just think I’m this guy who does things, but it’s all driven by copy. I wouldn’t have been able to accomplish anything without my ability to write copy, I mean, nothing.

Copywriter (and photographer) Misha Hettie is in the Copywriter Club studio to talk copy and Facebook Live this week. Kira and Rob asked Misha about her business and she shared a ton of great advice, including her thoughts on: •  the importance of branding yourself as a copywriter (and not looking like everyone else) •  how she became a “brand story evangelist” •  what beginners should do to get started on Facebook Live •  what is the biggest mistake people make on Facebook Live •  her “big rock method” for creating content for Facebook •  her “don’t-miss-it” advice to everyone seeking balance in their lives As usual, there’s a ton of great information in this episode. If you’ve ever thought about using video in your business, this is don’t miss advice. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Misha’s website Misha’s about page Silicone Valley Title Generator Joanna Wiebe Todd Herman 13 Reasons Why Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about the successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s was Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the Club for Episode 35, as we chat with copywriter Misha Heady about using social media in her copywriting business, and what other writers could be doing better there. Juggling her time as a parent, writer, photographer and coach, how Facebook Live has impacted her business and spending an afternoon taking photos of Rob and me in San Antonio. Rob: Hey Misha. Kira: Hello Misha. Misha: Hey guys, how are you? Rob: We’re great, how are you? Kira: Thanks. Misha: Yeah, I’m okay. I’m having a bit of a morning here, and I don’t know if you can her my dog in the background, but I apologize if you could. Rob: We did hear a little bit but I think was might be able with cut most of that out. Misha: Okay, I’m sorry. I swear to God. She’s like, “Oh, you’re on a call, let me go freak out about something. Kira: It’s okay. I think it’s been one of those days for all three of us, which means this is going to be a great conversation. Rob: Exactly. Misha: Yeah. Kira: So, Misha, let’s start with, you know, where you come from. Because you are this multi-talented, creative, big personality, you’ve played a really big role in the copywriter club, so where did you come from. What were you doing before you were in the club as a copywriter? Misha: Well, Kira, when a man and a woman love each other very, very much ... okay, JK, terrible, terrible joke. So, where do I come from? I used to be a nine-to-fiver, like most people, and one day I lost my job, and I was like, I got to figure this out. It’s actually a longer story than that, but that’s, you know, the gist of it. And in that last position, I had been using a lot of social media tools to kind of grow people’s knowledge of our gallery. It was a tile gallery. This is like way back in the day when Flicker was like the hottest thing around. To grow people’s knowledge of our gallery, and at the same time I was studying photography more, so that is basically the short story of how I became and entrepreneur, because it’s not a very poetic story, but it’s the truth. Rob: Walk us this step-by-step. So, you lost your job, and then suddenly you weren’t a writer/photographer, whatever. As for as setting up your business, tell us more about that process. Misha: Oh, no. It was literally that next day. No, just kidding.

LA copywriter, actor, rapper, and comedian, Jason Pickar, is in the club for the 34th episode of the podcast. This episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast comes with a warning label (for mentions of a controlled substances that are still illegal in most states). Jason's an energetic writer with a portfolio full of engaging (and award-winning) work for his clients. In addition to his career path, Rob and Kira asked him about: • How to get on the stage at The Price is Right (and meet Drew Carey) • How Jason landed his first job (then another and another) in the ad agency world • His creative process—an idea he stole from improv • His “machine gun approach” to making sure his ideas get picked by the client • Writing 100 headlines in an hour • Why companies do “branding” • How he stays creative, and • How comedy and improv strengthen his copywriting Jason’s agency experience is different from most of the copywriters we've interviewed for the show. So load up your iPod (or other listening device) and pull out your notebook. This one's a good one. You can also click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory The Price is Right Jason on the Price is Right Deutch Drew Carey McCann Erickson MRM TribalDDB ShaveEverywhere.com BodyGroom Monologues Break Media (now Defy Media) Weber Shandwick BrandCenter The Creative Circus Miami Ad School Bookshop LA AdHouse AgencySpy Gilmore Girls Jason’s Twitter Jason’s Instagram Jason’s Facebook Freewordsfree.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at the Copywriter Club podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 34, as a chat with copywriter Jason Pickar about writing for television, working on brands like Dr. Pepper with Madison Avenue ad agencies, how acting and comedy inform his writing, and how to get on the game show The Price Is Right. Kira: Hey Rob, hey Jason, how’s it going? Rob: Hey guys. Jason: Hey. It’s going great. Good intro. I’m down with that intro. Rob: Yeah, let’s get to it. Jason: Yeah. Kira: Okay. All right. So I think, Jason, a great place to start is with The Price Is Right. First of all, everyone needs to watch the video of you on that show. I just watched it before jumping on here. It’s ridiculous, and Jason’s ridiculous, and it’s hilarious. How did you get on the show, and what was the catalyst for even jumping into that arena? Jason: You know what? That is a very appropriate question, because I appeared on The Price Is Right on the same day that I picked up my severance check from an old agency I worked at, Deutsch. The catalyst was, quite literally, that whole thing had kind of fallen apart. The creative directors, I’d gone through four of them. Finally, we landed on one. My art director had left. It wasn’t the right fit, so we parted ways after two and a half, three years or so. Then I was at home, just watching TV. I was like, “Oh, man, I’ve always loved The Price Is Right. I’m living in Los Angeles, there’s no reason I can’t go on The Price Is Right.” So I went online, I got a ticket. You go to the studio at, like, 5:00 a.m. Hours and hours and hours before you’re even supposed to be there. I was, like, the second one in line. The key is to just have extremely high energy, be extremely friendly. In the line, they put a couple ringers in there. They’re like,

Our first guest to make an encore appearance on the club podcast is Canadian copywriter, Ry Schwartz, who just flew in from Costa Rica in time to talk with Rob and Kira about: • the new “product” Ry is launching soon with his girlfriend • using masterminds to meet potential clients • how he deals with “freak out” • how he vets clients (sometimes he asks them to sing with him) • how he conducts his R&D (and what client work has to do with it) • what he does to get people to take “uncomfortable action” • how he invoices for “giving a damn” • what he would do today if he had to start over from scratch There’s so much good stuff in this episode that we’ve already listened to it three times before we released it. Don’t miss all the great advice Ry has to share. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Copy School Joanna Wiebe Marc Angelo Capalla Superhero Academy The Wonder Twins The Babysitters Club Futurism High Existence The other Ry Schwartz podcast Marian Schembari Carpool Karoke Sam Woods TGIFridays Amy Porterfield Tarzan Kay Gabby Bernstein Jeff Walker Ryan Levesque Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 33 as we chat with copywriter Ry Schwartz about what he would do if he had to start over from scratch, how he thinks through email sequences, how to focus when you’re freaking out, and vetting new clients. Joins conversation in progress... Kira: Well, maybe we can start there. We’re not doing an official intro, I don’t think. I want to hear more about your travels and where you’ve been and why you’ve been traveling and what you’ve been doing off the radar. Ry: Yes. Yes, so I’ve been really on the road since mid-February. I’ve been location-independent for three or four years right now. I never really took advantage. I get very romantic about the idea of travel, but in practical terms, I can’t leave my house without packing for Cliff Bars, just because I have this intense fear of starvation. It really took a lot to pull the trigger on that, but it’s something that my girlfriend, Sue, and I were talking about for two years, just even considering relocating to Costa Rica for the winter, because who wants to be in Montreal in the winter? Then yeah, I finally pulled the trigger. I surprised her with this three-week trip, part of it at this mastermind. A few of the things are already taken care of for us and we don’t have to pack too many Cliff Bars. Yeah, we ventured down there in mid-February. It was initially supposed to be on the backend, at the end of the launch I was doing with the Copy Hackers. We were going to launch Copy School. I was going to create my new program within in, and then we were just going to celebrate with this three-week cathartic release in the jungle. As luck would have it, our launch dates got pushed back. I was actually in the jungle trying to get any kind of Wi-Fi possible in any location possible in order to write emails for the launch and just work with that pivot. God bless Joanna for being patient with that. I’m like, “I literally am in the middle of the jungle. There is no Wi-Fi present. The only Wi-Fi providers are three hours away and they really don’t give a crap about my product launch right now.” Yeah,

This is a special "in-between-isode" with details about our new program for new(ish) copywriters called The Copywriter Accelerator. It's all here: who it's for (and who it's not for), what we're going to cover, the bonuses you'll get, how much it costs and details about the 90-day money-back guarantee. For more details, check out www.thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Click the play button below. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Sorry, no transcript for this show.

Copywriter Sarah Grear stops by the clubhouse to share how she’s built a successful copywriting business over the past five years. Sarah’s clients include course creators and entrepreneurs about to launch their products. As usual, Rob and Kira ask questions to pull back the curtain and reveal the tactics and ideas that have made her successful, including: •  The two-year process she used to identify her niche •  How she slowly priced herself out of doing websites (and what she charges now) •  Why she does “live edits” with her clients •  How she creates a copywriting experience for the people she works with •  What she did to land a speaking gig at Rick Mulready’s event and Social Media Week •  How she used networking to get 80% of her clients when she was just getting started •  Why she created a $1000 course and lowered the price since it launched •  How she takes four months off a year (and doesn't lose clients or revenue). We say this a lot, but this is another must-listen episode for anyone who wants to grow a successful writing business. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory The Copywriter Accelerator The Well-fed Writer The Law of Attraction Rick Mulready Pat Flynn Amy Porterfield James Wedmore Social Media Week Copy Camp Maggie Patterson Streak Sarah’s Giving Page 826LA Sarah’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob:Before we get to this week’s interview, we want to tell you about The Copywriter Accelerator, a new 12-week program designed to help newish copywriters get serious about their business. This isn’t a copywriting clinic. Instead, we’ll work with you to improve the business side of your business, things like your onboarding process, choosing a niche, building a brand, and being a smarter business owner. This isn’t a video course. It’s hands-on training with personal access to both Kira and me. To learn more, go to thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Now, on to the show. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 32 as we chat with freelance copywriter, Sarah Grear about writing for healers and creative souls, how she landed a speaking gig at Social Media Week, working with her coach and a team, and taking branding vacations. Kira: Hey, Rob. Hey, Sarah. Sarah: Hey, guys. I love it. Rob: Hey, Sarah. Sarah: I’m so excited. Rob: We’re excited to have you. Kira: I think Sarah, a great place to start, and this what I’m actually really curious to know, where did you come from? What were you doing before you started your copywriting venture? Sarah: Cool. Yeah. I totally want to share my story with you. Before I do that, I just really quickly want to acknowledge both you and Rob for putting together this amazing podcasting group. I just want to say when I first started getting my copywriting business going, I actually, the number one referral source for my business was other copywriters, and I don’t think that gets talked about enough, so part of the way I build my business is what you guys are creating, so I’m just so grateful for communities like this, and I just wanted to say thank you for that. Rob: Thank you. That’s nice of you to say. Sarah: Yeah. Totally. The way I got started in copywriting and where I came from, I actually went to art school.

Kate Toon joins The Copywriter Club Podcast for episode 31—all the way from Australia. She co-hosts Hot Copy, which we’ve jokingly referred to as “the second best copywriter” podcast. She casually throws out words like “scuppered” and “rubbish” and “bloomin’” as she talks with Rob and Kira about: • the backdoor she opened to land a copywriter job at Ogilvy • the “agency” skills she learned that she applies in her freelance work every day • why freelancing is so much harder than working at an agency • why creating products isn’t the path to easy street you might think it is • how she created products and courses—all while working for her clients • why she’s taking a year off from reading blog posts and articles And there’s much more in this episode to tickle your ears. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Ogilvy Mad Men The Clever Copywriting School Kate’s SEO Course Rand Fishkin Mustache wax Hootsuite Zencastr Moz Neil Patel QuickSprout Oprah Winfrey Netflix Crazy Ex-Girlfriend This American Life Ira Glass The Sydney Morning Herald The Misfit Entrepreneur (Kate’s Book) Kate’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the Club for Episode 31 as we chat with copywriter SEO expert and misfit entrepreneur, Kate Tune about creating three successful businesses without a plan, SEO copywriting, running a podcast and writing conference and how to rock a hula hoop. Rob: Hey Kira, hey Kate. Kate: Hello. Kira: Hey Rob, hey Kate, thanks for being here. Kate: Thank you for that lovely intro. Rob: We try to change it up with every guest and you’ve called yourself the misfit entrepreneur so we thought, yeah it was appropriate. Kate: Thanks, yeah. And you managed to drop the hula hooping in, as well which is awesome. Rob: Exactly. Kira: Well Kate, I think a great place to start is with how you became an SEO copywriter consultant and then we can talk about your job as a chatline operator later. Kate: Yeah, so I probably went a fairly traditional route. I’m not sure everybody’s route to copywriting is so different, isn’t it? So, I went to university and did an utterly pointless degree in history, Roman history or something like, can’t remember. And then I left and I desperately wanted to be a magazine journalist but I had racked up so much debt at university that I had to get a real job as a, pretty much a secretary. Then I worked in various jobs, in events, in publishing and eventually got hired by this weird agency that was building something called websites, way back. I’m showing my age, now. I worked there for a few years and then I moved over to Australia and managed to get a job at Ogilvy, which is a big advertising agency in America and also it’s over here in Australia, as well. From there I transitioned into being a copywriter and worked on lots of big brands, global brands and kind of hated it, kind of didn’t like the agency life and as I got older, it got harder. Then eventually I got with child and could no longer be an agency copywriter because you have to work like 70 hours a day. So I gave it all up and became a freelance copywriter. Whoo hoo! That was a potted history. Rob: Let’s unpack that jus a little bit. We talk quite a bit with copywriters who are doing freelance stuff but...

Kira Hug and Rob Marsh are back with another “guestless” episode where they talk about what they’re doing right in their own businesses and what challenges they are struggling with. Plus they recap a few of the things they’ve learned from the previous 10 episodes—like the importance of process, being willing to share and teach others without expecting to get something in return, taking time for yourself, balance and much more. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Rob’s book Rob’s newsletter The Copywriter Club Marian Schembari Pete Michaels Joel Klettke Case Study Buddy Roy Furr Tepsii Brian Kurtz Mariano Rivera James Wedmore The Copywriter Accelerator (link coming) Ry Schwartz Kate Toon The Hot Copy Podcast Sarah Grear Misha Hettie Ken McCarthy Leave a review on iTunes Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 30, as Kira and I talk about our favorite advice from the last 10 episodes of the podcast, plus what we’re doing right now in our own businesses, what we’re struggling with, and what’s next for The Copywriter Club.  Hey, Kira. Kira: Hey, Rob. How are you doing? Rob: I’m good. How are you? That’s kind of a loaded question knowing what you’ve just been through that last day or so. Kira: But how are you doing? Rob: Yeah. I’m doing great. Things are good, and I’m actually excited to chat a little bit about what we’re doing here today. Kira: Yeah. Before we jumped into this conversation and started recording I shared with Rob that I’ve been freaking out over the last 24 hours because my MacBook died on me unexpectedly. I guess you never really expect it to die. Rob: It is the nightmare scenario for ... I just can’t even believe it how bad that is. Kira: Yeah, because you do realize it’s your everything. It is your business. It’s like your brick and mortar. I was thinking, I was like, “This is almost as if my brick and mortar was just broken into and I had to shut down the business for a day.” I think just timing is never good for something like that, but especially this week. It’s two of my clients’ big launches and I’m working on another sales page, so I was like, “It definitely is not the vest week,” but that’s just how it happens, right? Rob: There’s never a good week for that kind of stuff, but yeah, this is a good reminder to everybody to back up your hard drives right now. Push pause on the podcast and go back everything up, because you will lose it if you don’t eventually. Kira: Yeah. This is really just a public service announcement instead of an episode. Back up your stuff now. Rob: Yeah, sponsored by all of the backup software out there. Kira: Seriously, all of the laptop rental companies must make out pretty well, but anyway here we are. I am excited to talk to you about what’s been happening in your business and also what we have brewing. Rob: Yeah, this is going to be I think a little bit different from most of the other podcasts that we do. We did something similar in episode 20 when we reviewed a lot of our favorite episodes from the first 20 episodes. I think we want to do some of the same today, but we wanted to start out just talking about what’s going on in our business, and what we’re doing right and maybe what we’re not doing so well. Maybe we should start with you, Kira, with what’s going right in your business. Kira: Okay. Lots of things are actually going right, although you wouldn’t know it if you talked to me.

Rock and roll copywriter Pete Michaels joins Rob and Kira in The Copywriter Club Podcast studio to talk about his personal journey into direct response writing. He shares his thoughts about: • how to conduct “deep dive” surveys and asking the MSIQ • how he learned from mentors early in his writing career (and who his mentors are) • adding consulting to his copywriting business (and how he packages it) • the “Snap Shot” he stole from Stephen King Plus Pete mentions the book that convinced him that he didn’t have time for Facebook. But you’ll have to listen to learn what it is. There’s a ton of good advice packed into this episode. So click the play button below, check out the transcript, or download it to your mobile device and get it in your ear buds now.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Vin Montello Joanna Wiebe Kevin Rogers John Carlton Jason Leister Ben Settle Ryan Leveque Ask Method Book Dan Kennedy Copy Chief Stephen King’s It Stephen King’s On Writing Essentialism Rock and Roll Copy One Good Idea (Rob’s newsletter) Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 29 as we chat with direct response copywriter Pete Michaels about his journey to becoming a copywriter, conducting deep dive surveys, adding consulting to a writer’s tool kit and what he calls snapshot copy. Rob: Hey Kira and Pete. Kira: Hey Rob. Hey Pete. How’s it going? Pete: Hey, great. Great to be here. Thanks for having me. Kira: Yeah, well thanks. Thanks for joining us and I think Pete a good place to start is your road into copywriting because I feel like you’re kind of behind the scenes. You’re not on Facebook so we don’t get to see you in the club, but you’re doing these really cool things that we’re going to dive into today. So let’s start with how you got into copywriting. Pete: Yeah, it’s a weird road. I wouldn’t even call it a road. If it was on Google Maps, if you could trace it, it’ll look like your drunkest uncle weaving around all over the place. It was a strange road into copywriting and I didn’t really get into it until I guess reasonably late. In my 30’s. Before, like immediately prior to that I was working in marketing for arts organizations and non-profits here in London where I’ve lived for a while. I’ve always written. I’ve never had a problem writing. I’ve always loved writing since I was a kid, but I think for a while I was always looking for a way to make that a craft, you know. Find a craft that could involve writing and actually, you know, giving something. Doing something of value that you could actually do rather than, you know, when you’re a kid everybody dreams of being a writer of some kind, and you’re not quite sure what that’s going to involve. I kind of almost stumbled into copywriting through a friend of mine who’s a very good direct response copywriter who was doing it a few years before me and I was kind of looking for a new change in career. Another one. I used to do photography. I used to do a lot of music photography, and events photography, and a little bit of kind of like local news and stuff like that. I was kind of combining that with a part time job working in marketing with this kind of arts organization. Yeah, I was looking for a new way to involve writing in my day-to-day and to work with people. Obviously I kind of started to learn a little about how that might work with involving copywriting through, you know, working in a marketing environment. Then kind of got talking to this, you know,

Copywriter Marian Schembari joins Rob and Kira on The Copywriter Club Podcast to share her thoughts on a long list of topics, including: • How she landed a job using social media (and why she doesn’t like SM now) • How she convinces clients to focus on the “one” reader • Her process for creating awesome About Pages • Why all copywriters should work with an editor • Dealing with depression when you work alone • How she raised her rates, an • Why storytelling is so important in copywriting This is a good one! To hear it all, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Unmistakable Creative Guerilla Marketing for Job Hunters CouchSurfing 10X Emails Copyhackers Book Passage Where Stellar Messages Come From XO Jane The Great Value Proposition Test X-Files Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Marian Schembari on how to create an awesome about page, dealing with depression and much more... Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their success and failures, their work process, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 28 as we chat with freelance copywriter Marian Schembari about landing her first job using social media, and why she doesn’t like it very much, the secret writers need to know to create compelling about pages, running a business when you have depression, and how stories are the only reason customers buy anything. Kira: Hey, Rob. Hey, Marian. How are you? Marian: Hi. Rob: Hey, Kira. Welcome, Marian. Marian: It’s super weird to hear you talking about me like that. Your voices have been in my ears like every morning as I walk my dogs, so it’s really weird to hear you responding to me as I talk. Rob: Imagine how weird it’s going to be when you’re listening to yourself as you walk your dog. Marian: Here’s the thing, though. I love listening to myself. Is that weird? I’ve been on podcasts, and I definitely listen to them, and my husband will come home and be like, “Why are you listening to an interview with yourself?” Like, “Because I sound really smart, okay?” Rob: I love it. Kira: And you’re probably learning from yourself, as well. Marian: Totally. Kira: I feel like even with this podcast, I told Rob for awhile, I was not listening, because I did not want to hear my voice. I do like listening to Rob, but I don’t like listening to myself. Recently, I did listen to episode 20, and I was like, “You know what? I’m actually learning something.” In the interview, I miss a lot of details that I catch listening the second time around, I think just because I’m trying to get ahead. It does help. That’s a great segue into the conversation with you, because I originally heard you on a different podcast. It was an interview on The Unmistakable Creative. It was around the time when your name kept popping into my world, into my feed over and over again, until I think I finally reached out to you, and was just like, “Hey, we should be friends, right?” Marian: “We should be friends. Let’s hang out.” I was like, “Yes, please.” Kira: Yes. Now you’re here, I think a great place to start would be how you got into copywriting, especially if you could speak to just landing those first few gigs or getting that first bout of confidence. I know that’s what new copywriters are really interested in. Marian: It’s a weird roundabout story, but many years ago, I guess a decade ago, when I had just graduated from college, it was really, really hard for me to find a job. I was convinced I wanted to work in publishing, and I applied to every job under the sun, and nobody was getting back to me.