TCC Podcast 31: Why Freelancing is Hard with Kate Toon

Kate Toon joins The Copywriter Club Podcast for episode 31—all the way from Australia. She co-hosts Hot Copy, which we’ve jokingly referred to as “the second best copywriter” podcast. She casually throws out words like “scuppered” and “rubbish” and “bloomin’” as she talks with Rob and Kira about: • the backdoor she opened to land a copywriter job at Ogilvy • the “agency” skills she learned that she applies in her freelance work every day • why freelancing is so much harder than working at an agency • why creating products isn’t the path to easy street you might think it is • how she created products and courses—all while working for her clients • why she’s taking a year off from reading blog posts and articles And there’s much more in this episode to tickle your ears. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Ogilvy Mad Men The Clever Copywriting School Kate’s SEO Course Rand Fishkin Mustache wax Hootsuite Zencastr Moz Neil Patel QuickSprout Oprah Winfrey Netflix Crazy Ex-Girlfriend This American Life Ira Glass The Sydney Morning Herald The Misfit Entrepreneur (Kate’s Book) Kate’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the Club for Episode 31 as we chat with copywriter SEO expert and misfit entrepreneur, Kate Tune about creating three successful businesses without a plan, SEO copywriting, running a podcast and writing conference and how to rock a hula hoop. Rob: Hey Kira, hey Kate. Kate: Hello. Kira: Hey Rob, hey Kate, thanks for being here. Kate: Thank you for that lovely intro. Rob: We try to change it up with every guest and you’ve called yourself the misfit entrepreneur so we thought, yeah it was appropriate. Kate: Thanks, yeah. And you managed to drop the hula hooping in, as well which is awesome. Rob: Exactly. Kira: Well Kate, I think a great place to start is with how you became an SEO copywriter consultant and then we can talk about your job as a chatline operator later. Kate: Yeah, so I probably went a fairly traditional route. I’m not sure everybody’s route to copywriting is so different, isn’t it? So, I went to university and did an utterly pointless degree in history, Roman history or something like, can’t remember. And then I left and I desperately wanted to be a magazine journalist but I had racked up so much debt at university that I had to get a real job as a, pretty much a secretary. Then I worked in various jobs, in events, in publishing and eventually got hired by this weird agency that was building something called websites, way back. I’m showing my age, now. I worked there for a few years and then I moved over to Australia and managed to get a job at Ogilvy, which is a big advertising agency in America and also it’s over here in Australia, as well. From there I transitioned into being a copywriter and worked on lots of big brands, global brands and kind of hated it, kind of didn’t like the agency life and as I got older, it got harder. Then eventually I got with child and could no longer be an agency copywriter because you have to work like 70 hours a day. So I gave it all up and became a freelance copywriter. Whoo hoo! That was a potted history. Rob: Let’s unpack that jus a little bit. We talk quite a bit with copywriters who are doing freelance stuff but we haven’t talked to a whole lot of agency copywriters. Tell us about working in an agency and maybe even, what it takes for a copywriter to get a job at an agency. Kate: Look, I think it’s, I don’t think it’s easy. I think my route was very indirect. When I first started out, that was, you know, I was like, “Wow, I’d like to work for an advertising agency.” And I did get a job in an agency in London. Again, as a receptionist. So I had to go in as kind of like a non-creative person. But if you’ve seen Mad Men, not everybody gets to move from reception to being a copywriter. Rob: Only the best. Kate: Only the best. I was literally that character, I’ve forgotten her name now. But, so and then I left and then with Ogilvy, I just was in the right place at the right time. Australia was a little bit behind the eight ball with digital and advertising and my little experience counted a lot so I kind of got in at the ground level but again, as a producer, so I was actually managing projects. And then after a couple of years, I actually took about a 60% pay cut to be a copywriter. Because that’s what I really wanted to do. So I lopped, they took 60% off my salary. Nice. And I started as a junior copywriter and kind of started working up. If you [were 00:04:14] straight out of college, I mean, gosh it’s hard. It’s super competitive. In Australia, there are a few kind of awards and schools that you can go through to get in. I think there’s a huge amount of nepotism, you know who you know. Ii don’t know. I actually wouldn’t be able to give anybody any tips because the problem is, all your creative ideas, everyone else has got those creative ideas because they’re all creative people. So, you know, maybe a sideways route would be my suggestion. Get in there, get into the agency whatever way you can and then show your skills because obviously there’s lots of opportunities to kind of shine, if you take them. Kira: What did you learn from the agency life at such a well known agency, especially in your different roles as a producer and then a copywriter? What did you learn that really helped give you an edge in your freelance business? Kate: Lots of things. I think as a producer, I learned how to project manage, which is a huge part of copywriting, really underestimated. Being able to work out time lines, work out budgets, manage multiple projects, keep projects moving so there’s no dead time. So you can manage multiple projects and keep them all working for you, which is super important if you’re a copywriter and you want to earn a decent living. You know, you need to be able to have lots of jobs on the go. I learned to deal with lots of egos, lots of people in agencies have enormous egos and so it teaches you a lot of diplomacy, which I think is very useful when dealing with clients. And then as a copywriter, I think you know, I used to write an awful lot of ad campaigns and tag lines and one liners for animated gifts. Remember animated gifts were all the rage back then. And coming up with really simple metaphors for describing things. And patterns and systems and methodologies so that you’re never really starting with a blank page. It’s all about starting with some kind of template or structure and filling in the blanks and what you end up with isn’t perfect, but it gives you something to start working with. I think a lot of people might think that agency copywriters sit around on bean bags having epiphanies. They don’t. They’re just like you. They work with formulas, they look at old ads, they look at old campaigns. They do brainstorm, which is, I think something that we poor, lonely freelancers don’t get to do. But a lot of it is quite formulaic, you know? Kira: Well, I was just going to ask you, what type of methodologies they typically use at ad agencies because I love that idea of you’re never really starting with a blank page. Do you recall any of the processes or any tips that could help the lonely freelancer who does not have a team to brainstorm with? Kate: Yes, I mean the process would usually be, you know go and take your briefing with the dreaded account managers and the clients and then you’d go away and there’d always be a period of like, sort of self reflection where you’d sit at your own desk and try and pull something out of your bottom, which was usually not particularly fruitful. The next thing would be that you’re often partnered with a designer or an art director. So it was always a copywriter/art director because a lot of what we were doing was adverts and ads. But also even long copy, you know, can be influenced by design. But also just another creative mind. So then you would sit and you would just kind of say stupid things to each other. Like come up with ideas, like what about we use a pig? Or what about we have a hedgehog? Well, I don’t like hedgehogs. Well, and no idea was a bad idea, you just write everything down. But then in terms of cheats, as it were, I’m just remembering my own creative director would say, “There’s lots of easy ways to do ads, you know. Think of metaphors, like road sign metaphors.” And you see this done to death, like “Stop” stop sign. Or “Give Way”. Using this in your ad copy or just thinking of an overarching concept and a metaphor. So, you’re writing about, I don’t know, dentistry. But you’re going to do the whole thing relating to ice cream. This is a terrible analogy. I should have prepped a better one. So you’re going to talk about, you’re just going to use one overarching concept or idea for the whole thing and that will give you your concept. So here’s a better example, a copywriter I’m working with is coming up with a new way of branding herself. And she’s going to use a kind of makeover metaphor, like a plastic surgery metaphor. So she’s, you know, slicing and dicing copy. Once you have that metaphor,