

The Other 22 Hours
Michaela Anne, Aaron Shafer-Haiss
"Artistry flourishes in shared conversation."
Everyone struggles with self-doubt and motivation in their careers. The Other 22 Hours Podcast features conversations with renowned musicians and artists, sharing tools for resilience, helping you feel more inspired, connected, and confident in your creative journey.
Hosted by music producer Aaron Shafer-Haiss, and singer-songwriter Michaela Anne, these are artist-lead conversations - not your typical outsider journalist interviews.
Everyone struggles with self-doubt and motivation in their careers. The Other 22 Hours Podcast features conversations with renowned musicians and artists, sharing tools for resilience, helping you feel more inspired, connected, and confident in your creative journey.
Hosted by music producer Aaron Shafer-Haiss, and singer-songwriter Michaela Anne, these are artist-lead conversations - not your typical outsider journalist interviews.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 10, 2024 • 53min
Eliot Bronson on surrendering to circumstance, bottom up growth, and being the movie screen.
Eliot Bronson has released 6+ records over the past 12 years, both independently and via labels - with a handful produced by Dave Cobb - and he has also won numerous acclaimed songwriting competitions such as Kerrville and Chris Austin contest at Merlefest. Ditching the traditional label/publicist/manager route, Eliot has established a vibrant path that is 100% DIY, community-focused, and as he explains - more fulfilling than ever. We talk at length about that process and how he found himself there, debate the necessity of a whole label or publicity team, explore the idea of the artist in the center of the crowd versus up high and removed on stage, mindfulness practices, and more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Eliot Bronson30A FestivalEp 45 - Glen PhillipsEp 46 - Mary Chapin CarpenterCBS Saturday Morning'That Thing You Do'Sam Harris - Waking Up'Zen Mind Beginners Mind'Patty GriffinEmmylou HarrisChris Austin Song Contest (MerleFest)Gillian WelchTelluride Troubadour Songwriting ContestKerrvile Songwriting ContestMelody WalkerRocky Mountain Folks FestClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Jul 3, 2024 • 57min
Rhett Miller on deserving vs entitlement, envy, and spinning plates.
Rhett Miller is the lead singer for The Old 97's, a solo artist, a podcast host (Wheels Off, with almost 200 episodes), an author and a mental health advocate who has released records via labels such as Elektra, ATO and Verve, worked with artists such as Jon Brion, Rosanne Cash, The Decemberists, and Tori Amos, and fronted The Old 97's for over 30 years. We talk about the difference between feeling deserving and entitlement, navigating envy traps, diversification for creative pursuits and financial fear, authenticity and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Rhett MillerThe Old 97'sWheels Off PodcastParson's School of Design/The New SchoolLittle, Brown PublishingDan Santat'This Is What I Do'Rounder RecordsElektraNick LoweNeko CaseDavid BowieRosanne Cash'Big Brown Eyes'Click here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Jun 26, 2024 • 44min
Chris Smither on self motivating, learning when to grip the reins, and books.
Chris Smither has released 20+ records so far in his 58 year career, had his songs recorded by the likes of Bonnie Raitt (who had a hit with his song 'Love Me Like a Man', and whom he's had a long working relationship with) and Emmylou Harris, and as you can imagine, he's seen all of the ups and downs and twists and turns in almost 6 decades of this career. We talk with him about all of this hard earned wisdom and experience, his zest for practicing, learning when to grab the reins and when to ride, his myriad hobbies including a voracious appetite for reading, and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Chris SmitherClub PassimBetsy SigginsCharles River Valley BoysBonnie Raitt'Love Me Like a Man'David GoodrichStephen BrutonCS Lewis - 'The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe'Lord of the Rings Trilogy (book)Ep 46 - Mary Chapin CarpenterClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Jun 19, 2024 • 45min
Ruby Amanfu on owning your truths, prioritizing personal connection, and swimming to depths.
Ruby Amanfu is a singer, songwriter, activist, chef, and actress who has been nominated for Grammy's (song of the year) for her work with H.E.R as well as Brandi Carlile and Alicia Keys, she was a member of Jack White's band, is producer and songwriter for the ABC series "Queens", has placed songs on ABC, CBS, MTV, amongst others, worked with Patti Labelle, Norah Jones, John Prine, Sara Bareilles, and was part of Beyonce's 'Lemonade' album. We chat with her about owning your truth, prioritizing personal connection before professional, balancing the need to earn with your passion, showing up in integrity, the parallels between cooking and creating music, activism and using your voice and creativity, and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Ruby AmanfuSam & RubyPorter's CallAndy LittleMusiCaresLeanne WomackWillie NelsonLove RisingBeyonceClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Jun 12, 2024 • 56min
Jim Sonefeld (Hootie & the Blowfish) on learning by doing, life after the peak, and honest reflection.
Jim Sonefeld is best known as the drummer (and songwriter) for Hootie & the Blowflish, but he has also released a handful of solo records and written a memoir title 'Swimming with the Blowfish - Hootie, Healing, and One Hell of a Ride'. We talk with Jim about the start and rise of Hootie, how having the 10th best selling US record of all time impacted his writing and creativity, their fall from prominence and the addictions that followed, finding sobriety and reinvention, lessons learned throughout this roller coaster, and a whole lot more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Jim SonefeldHootie & the Blowfish'Swimming with The Blowfish' bookAtlantic RecordsDavid LettermanDarius RuckerR.E.M.Francis DunneryDean FelberThe Rolling StonesClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

Jun 5, 2024 • 1h 2min
Lori McKenna on holding the work in gratitude, carving space, and sign posts.
Lori McKenna is Grammy-winning singer songwriter who has released 12+ records on Warner, Signature Sounds, Thirty Tigers, and written countless songs that have been number 1 hits for the likes of Faith Hill, Tim McGraw, Taylor Swift, Little Big Town, Lady Gaga, Maren Morris, Thomas Rhett, The Highwomen, and Mandy Moore, to name a few. All of this widespread acclaim started later in life for Lori (at 36, with 5 children), so we talk with her about that experience, how being in Boston vs Nashville has impacted her career, how and if her success has affected her process, her thoughts on touring and the requirements of an artist career beyond the songs, and much more, all well soaking up her immense gratitude for it all.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Lori McKennaEp 14 - Mark ErelliEp 27 - Mary GauthierWarner RecordsKris DelmhorstBarry DeanCourtney HartmanLiz RoseHillary LindseyGuy ClarkJustin VernonAaron DessnerBig Red MachineBecky FlukeEp 43 - Gretchen PetersEp 3 - The Milk Carton KidsHardly Strictly Bluegrass FestivalBrandy ClarkClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

May 29, 2024 • 46min
Tyler Ramsey on finding the right venue, patience in waves, and release releases.
Tyler Ramsey - former guitar player for Band of Horses - has released 5 solo albums before, during, and after his stint in the band. We got to chat with Tyler about everything from surfing the seasons of creativity with patience and acceptance, his decision making process behind both joining Band of Horses (leaving a solo career) and leaving the band (private jets, selling out arenas all over the world), finding the right venue for your music, not just your ego, demonstrating a creative life path to your children, and so much more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:Tyler RamseyBand of HorsesPhil EkJim Carrey dad clipBe Here Now - AshevilleLeo KottkeMadison Square GardenRed RocksBon IverFleet FoxesCoachellaBonnarooNewport Folk FestEp 7 - BJ Barham (American Aquarium)Nick Cave's Red Hand FilesClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

May 22, 2024 • 49min
The Secret Sisters on leveling out, non-linear trajectories, and play.
The Secret Sisters are a Grammy-nominated (sister) duo from Alabama who have put out 5 records, and navigated a rollercoaster of highs and lows from being signed to Universal records and produced by T Bone Burnett, getting dropped, to lawsuits with a manager, bankruptcy, opening for (and being produced by) Brandi Carlisle, and onto a Grammy nomination. We talk about that ride, the lessons learned and experience earned, motherhood, doing the hard internal work and how that improves your creativity, putting the play back in music, and more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:The Secret SistersRay LamontagneGregory Alan IsakovEp 57 - The Brother BrothersEp 4 - Emily Scott RobinsonYuval Noah Harari"Sapiens"Ep 50 - Sierra HullEp 46 - Mary Chapin CarpenterClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

May 15, 2024 • 49min
The Brother Brothers on authenticity, autonomy and validation, and traveling.
The Brother Brothers are identical twins who have released 5 records together, as well as touring/collaborating with Courtney Marie Andrews, Lake Street Dive, Big Thief, Sarah Jarosz, Keb Mo and being part of the early incarnations of Hadestown the musical. We chat with them about how authenticity lasts in this industry, the theory that everyone (musician/artist) just needs autonomy and validation, following the momentum, economics, and we share some good old tour horror stories.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:The Brother BrothersAmericanaFestAnais MitchellHadestownEp 10 - Joe PugEp 12 - Leyla McCallaStephane GrappelliTaylor SwiftZach BryanLevi TurnerClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.

May 8, 2024 • 1h 4min
Guster on running toward fear, trying to fail, and green lights.
Guster formed in 1991, and has since released 9 records, had a Top 40 hit, a gold record, played Woodstock 99, started the label Ocho Mule, and is still growing today. We sat down with lead singer Ryan Miller, who is also a film composer, sometimes writer for The Atlantic, budding Broadway composer/writer and a former host on Vermont Public TV. We talk with Ryan about managing so many spinning plates, running towards fear, parallels between a music career and entrepreneurship (iterating, failing, learning, improving, and then repeating), managing personalities and wants over a 33-year career, and so much more.Get more access and support this show by subscribing to our Patreon, right here.Links:GusterRyan Miller"Making Friends with Ryan Miller" - Vermont TV"Bardo" - Vermont TVReverb (non-profit)Ryan's Atlantic ArticleJoe PisapiaEp 45 - Glen PhillipsPJ Vogt - Molly RingwaldNicole AtkinsEp 38 - John DoeMike GordonNoah KahanGrace PotterBonny Light HorsemanClick here to watch this conversation on YouTube.Social Media:The Other 22 Hours InstagramThe Other 22 Hours TikTokMichaela Anne InstagramAaron Shafer-Haiss InstagramAll music written, performed, and produced by Aaron Shafer-Haiss.
Become a subscribing member on our Patreon to gain more inside access including exclusive content, workshops, the chance to have your questions answered by our upcoming guests, and more.