Economics has often been accused of making inferences about human behaviour without any real understanding of how we actually make decisions, choose between options or act against our stated interests. Behavioural economics combining economics and psychology started to accelerate its development in the 1980s, but its roots can be traced back to the 18th century economist Adam Smith. In this episode of The Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Scott Allender talk to Matthias Sutter, one of the world’s leading behavioural economists about his (often) counter-intuitive findings, and how they can help leaders create fairer, more inclusive organisations.Behavioral Economics for Leaders (Matthias Sutter, 2023)www.youtube.com/@evolvingleader3.10 Give us a summary of your journey as an economist and the areas that you are most intrigued and excited about5.11 How do you approach this work and how is this field evolving?7.05 In your book your write about how economic outcomes are shaped by hidden biases. Can you unpack what's going on there?11.13 Can you share some of your findings around the value of these social skills and how they translate into financial benefits for organisations?14.24 What's the missing convincing component that we need to tap into?17.03 You have said that when you are trying to find a job, it's the weaker connections in your social network that are most important. Why is that?18.37 Something else you point out is that having more women in a start-up is a predictor of longevity. Tell us about this21.32 What happens when companies become more transparent with salaries?25.34 There are parts of the world that require transparency. What are some insights that will help leaders manage that double edged sword?27.36 You said that employees who don't support company mission statements are 50% less productive. Can you unpack that?31.18 Moving to the need for quotas to encourage more gender equality. Why do we need quotas?34.54 The underlying assumption is that being competitive is a core part of being a good leader, but you're saying that there is more to it than that37.01 Your research suggests that women leaders can earn more revenue per employee when they are on the board. Can you elaborate?39.57 What have you learnt about trust?44.43 Do you have any other insights or advice on how leaders might build or accelerate a sense of trust in their teams?47.14 Can we talk about decision making and money?50.55 Can we talk about your research into teenager's and children's decision making? What are you doing in that area? 53.33 What's the most powerful that helps children and teenagers to build that muscle of differed gratification?55.09 What have you learnt on what encompases or inhibits ethical behaviour amongst individuals and teams?Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderYouTube           @evolvingleader The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

In this bonus episode of the Evolving Leader podcast, host Jean Gomes talks to Matt Mayberry. Matt is a thought leader on business development and culture, author of the Wall Street Journal bestseller ‘Culture is the Way’ and former NFL Pro linebacker for the Chicago Bears.  0.00 Introduction1.01 Let’s start with a pitch for your book “Culture is the way”.2.26 What’s the case in terms of what culture is, why it’s important and what I can do about it?6.44 The middle manager might think of this topic as not being in their remit. What’s in it for them and why should they be doing this?8.44 Give us a high-level view of the framework that you outline in the book.10.45 What are the things that you are encountering in your work that stand in the way of this being adopted at scale?12.41 Why is this so important to you?14.52 What else should I be asking you about your work and the book?16.23 What’s the best way of finding your book and contacting you? Social: Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderYouTube           @evolvingleader2271 Books written by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender:“Leading In A Non-Linear World” (Jean Gomes, 2023)“The Enneagram Of Emotional Intelligence” (Scott Allender, 2023) The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

In this episode of the Evolving Leader, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Emma Sinclair talk to Vaughn Tan. Vaugh is a consultant, author and professor of strategy at University College London School of Management. He studies innovation and adaptability in the context of uncertainty with a focus on processes for hiring, goal setting and motivation at the team level. References from the episode:The Uncertainty Mindset, Innovation Insights From The Frontiers of Food Project on not-knowingidkWhat makes us human for now?0.00 Introduction3.29 At a party, how would you explain what you do?5.09 You’ve spent long periods of time observing some of the world’s most famous chefs. How is uncertainty used strategically in that environment?8.11 Organisations are built to de-risk, not to imagine or embrace uncertainty. What is your experience of how leaders in these organisations are starting to accept the need to embrace uncertainty and accept the need for imagination?12.45 You identify the two categories of people who understand that there are forms of ‘not knowing that are not risk’. Do you think it’s possible to have a natural aptitude for not having to know?14.59 Thinking about individuals who are at different ends of the scale for the need for closure and then putting them together as a team, what have you been learning about that environment mix?21.06 Have you got a practical takeaway that you can give us around starting that loading that you can do with a team?24.51 How do innovation teams motivate themselves to do uncomfortable, unfamiliar innovation work’. How do you take this idea of building a muscle of discomfort into innovation teams and what have you learnt from that?28.59 What have you observed from the way that either individuals or teams get closer to the feelings of actually doing this? How do you make sense of the emotions that are linked to this sense of uncertainty and disruption?35.20 You’ve said that anything that is fully knowable becomes routine and can be done by a machine. How does not knowing play into human value creation in a world of automation?39.47 Can you give us your thoughts on what that might lead to in terms of jobs, role, new competencies that don’t currently exist in the workplace?43.47 What are you working on at the moment? What’s next for you? Social: Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderYouTube           @evolvingleader2271 The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

In this episode of the Evolving Leader, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Scott Allender talk to serial entrepreneur, engineer, inventor and pioneer in artificial intelligence Peter Voss. Peter spent more than 15 years studying what intelligence is, how it develops in humans and also the current state of artificial intelligence, resulting in the creation of a natural language intelligence engine designed to “adapt and grow” with the user. During that time Peter was part of a group that coined the term AGI (artificial general intelligence) and is now focused on commercialising the second generation of an AGI-based conversational AI technology called Aigo. His mission is to provide “highly intelligent and hyper-personalised assistants for everyone”. Reference in this episode:Aigo.aiPeter’s articles on Medium 0.00 Introduction3.31 How did you get into the artificial intelligence space?4.57 Can you give us a simple definition of AI?9.37 So when we look at these systems, why is it different this time?12.24 There’s a lot of excitement and a lot of fear surround AI. How will AGI solve problems that need to be solved, and what are the risks?15.06 With this radical abundance, there is always a flip side. With every technology, human nature does what it does, good or bad. What are the ethical and/or moral challenges facing us with this technology?18.02 How in your mind would AGI stand in the gap between psychology and AI?20.38 The current investment that is being placed into all technologies is dependent on the current ways that the global economic system works. When we unleash this abundance, it changes some of the basic assumptions about how capitalism works. What are thoughts regarding that disruption and how is it going to change the fabric of our society?22.49  Are we at risk with getting to a level of AGI in every facet of our lives where people will struggle to find their human purpose other than depending on this technology?24.19 Where does AI start to harm us and how to prevent that existential crisis?26.07 Turning to what our audience should be doing to prepare for this AI revolution? Is there something that they should be thinking about and doing now?29.32 If you were advising a CEO on how to ready their organisation for the next decade, what would your checklist of top priorities be in getting them to think about things?30.52 What are the moral considerations to make sure that we can advertise to people but not take over their independent thinking in how they live their lives or what they want to buy?34.24 The reason why we’re lured into this is that it’s seemingly free. How do we break that economic cycle?35.52 Coming back to the fears, how do we ensure that the personal assistant is secure, that it won’t flip and reveal all of our secrets to the world?39.39 How is the area that you’re working in playing out compared to the big model systems?44.42 Can you set a time frame for us? What do you think the next 5-10 years holds in terms of what you’re doing? When will it really start to change our lives?47.00 Your day job is commercially utilising this conversational AI technology and there are huge opportunities there. 49.36 So what is standing in your way to accelerate this?50.37 How can people get in touch with you? Social: Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderYoSend a message to The Evolving Leader team

In this episode of the Evolving Leader, co-hosts Scott Allender and Jean Gomes talk to Kerry Cullen. Kerry is a business psychologist who has been coaching for more than 20 years. Working with both the public and private sector internationally, her focus is to create a coaching environment where people can come home to themselves. Kerry loves to explore and train in polyvagal theory and in 2022 she launched a polyvagal course for coaches.References from the episode:KerryCullen.comPolyvagal InstituteDeb Dana’s Rhythm of RegulationSomatic Resilience and Regulation, Stephen Terrell 0.00 Introduction4.48 Can we start with you sharing your journey and the challenges that you’ve faced?5.55 Can you give us a definition of resources?6.44 Can you give us a beginners guide to polyvagal theory?8.12 Is neuroception synonymous with interoception?12.47 We have this constant unconscious monitoring system that isn’t grounded in our perception, but when it’s activated it does quickly engage the brain into an interpretation. How does this play out in how we make sense of things?16.21 If you are someone who is stuck in a disconnected state, how does our nervous system see that as a way to protect us? 19.03 How does this help people who have experienced trauma?23.23 How does this thinking work in the leadership space?26.06 There’s a big narrative around psychological safety amongst leaders and teams. What are your thoughts around rupture and repair as the underlying mechanism of psychological safety?29.33 You quote Stephen Porges “If you want to improve the world, start by making people feel safe”. Do you think he’s meaning that the best way to improve the world around us is for us to find our own healing? Is that your North Star?31.52 Kerry guides Jean, Scott and our listeners through a system developed by Stephen Tyrell that offers regulation to the nervous system as a way of bringing a sense of safety and connection. 47.08 For people who are listening to this, how does this differ from mindfulness and meditation practices that they may have tried in the past? 48.58 What’s next for you?49.30 Is there a central resource that our listeners can go to if they’d like to explore this further? Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderYouTube           @evolvingleader2271 The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

In this episode of the Evolving Leader, co-hosts Scott Allender and Emma Sinclair welcome Rob Murray back to the podcast. Rob last came onto the Evolving Leader back in December 2021 (season 3, episode 12), he’s a researcher, change agent and thought leader in emotional intelligence and transformational leadership who strives for a deep level of authenticity whilst at the same time being supremely pragmatic in the realities of organisational life. Rob is co-founder and CEO of Transformed Leader, he is host of the Talk of Change podcast and in February 2023 Rob’s new book ‘Fighting For Heart’ was published. 0.00 Introduction3.55 What motivated you to write ‘Fighting For Heart’7.13 Why is this so important now?12.15 How are you defining emotional intelligence?26.37 You identify that there are six common resistances that keep leaders from investing in emotional growth. Can we start with ‘self-protection against social shame, pressure or judgements for being emotional’36.03 The next resistance is that ‘people hold a belief that leaders should not be distracted by emotions’38.33 Number three is ‘avoiding emotions feels easier, safer and more manageable’39.29 Fourth is ‘a lack of emotional modelling when growing up’43.41 Finishing up with five and six, we have ‘ignorance of any other way than performing and producing’ and ‘not justifying the time and money to prioritise emotional development’45.10 It can be difficult to know when we lose our emotional awareness. What can people listening (who don’t have the benefit of spending time with you) start to do? Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderYouTube           @evolvingleader2271 The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

Margaret Heffernan, a renowned entrepreneur and author, explores the concept of 'willful blindness'—our tendency to ignore uncomfortable truths. She shares insights on how leaders can confront this in their organizations, emphasizing the importance of open dialogue and fostering innovation. Margaret also discusses strategies for embracing uncertainty in decision-making and the significance of ongoing learning in today’s ever-changing landscape. Her reflections on personal growth and tackling self-doubt in writing add a relatable touch to the conversation.

In this episode of the Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Jean Gomes, Scott Allender and Emma Sinclair talk to Alex Zekoff. Alex is CEO and Co-founder of Thoughtful, an organisation with a mission to accelerate the world’s adoption of automation and AI so humans can solve our most complex existential problems. He believes that automation gives human workers the freedom to pursue the creative strategic work that builds companies as well as their careers. Thoughtful’s Robotic Process Automation aims to help businesses save up to 90% of their workforce’s time, increasing operational efficiency and lowering expenses.  0.00 Introduction3.31 Can you tell us about your background and why you co-created Thoughtful?6.51 Can you give us clarity on what you are selling?9.19 Can you tell us more about what all of this means and where it’s heading in the context of the future of organisations and job security?13.09 If we fast forward five years, it’s going to fundamentally change the nature of work. Have you got a sense of what the world is going to look like when that happens?16.52 You talked about health care claims and how you see that in terms of automation. Given the breadth of what you work on, I wondered if you see certain industries that are way behind the curve. What’s your view on leaders and laggers in this space?18.47 You recently wrote that to avoid a sinking ship, leaders need to approach management by cutting through the noise and focussing on first principles which are defined as a basic proposition or assumption that cannot be deduced from any other proposition or assumption. What are these first principles?20.36 We see this in action all of the time. How do you help people to get there? What’s your process?22.38 How do you help people to break through the assumptions that are holding them back?24.52 You’ve described how smart people can lie to themselves because they use their intelligence to make convincing arguments that undermine their long-term interests. You mention using a blue and a red team to disrupt that thinking. Can you talk to us about that process?27.04 If in five years we’ve brought our lagging industries forward in terms of automation and we’ve got more valuable stuff, but we’ve still got humans with a finite amount of potential skill, what will humans be doing in that space?29.35 It feels like there are broader ethical concerns here (that we must confront) if we continue automating everything.34.38 In Forbes you made some predictions about this year, and one of them was ‘Goodbye Wokeism, being woke is out in ‘23’. What’s your definition of wokeism and why is it out? 39.13 In terms of a growth mindset approach, can we still pursue wanting to make sure that we’re evolving in our language and how we treat groups and individuals while also potentially directing our attention to larger scale issues such as staying on the planet?42.27 You've said that companies building software to track productivity and KPIs precisely win over companies that aren’t measuring performance at that granular level. Can you talk to us about how you are seeing this playing out in the relationship between people and organisations?45.28 We’ve touched on the notion that AI introduces a load of peril, so what are the moral implications for leaders today as we embark on this journey? What do they need to do to prevent future disasters where AI might collapse a company, destroy a marketplace or worse?Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

In this episode of the Evolving Leader podcast, co-hosts Jean Gomes and Scott Allender talk to future of work writer and speaker, business leader, best-selling author and podcaster Ollie Henderson. Ollie believes that work life balance is a myth, and instead sees career and personal life as two opposing forces. He argues that the secret is to design an integrated approach that allows them to work in harmony. ‘Work/Life Flywheel. Harness the Work Revolution and Reimagine Your Career Without Fear’ 0.00 Introduction3.54 It’s your birthday. Which musical artist (living or dead) would you invite to your party?5.26 Tell us about your career to date?8.56 You’ve experienced burnout and trying to understand what you’re feeling in that situation is difficult for a lot of people. What kind of consequences did that have on your life?12.28 How long do you think were burnt out before you acknowledged it?13.21 So you decided to leave your job and take up writing and at the same time a pandemic hit. 19.29 People are often afraid to make changes and you say that 75% of people are wanting to make big changes to their work lives. Why is that happening?22.24 I’m interested in the data you collected. In the UK and many other countries there is currently a large focus on getting older people back in the workforce.28.13 We’ve had lots of guests talking to us about various aspects of innovation. Is there anything that you’ve learnt about how we can get people to bring more of their creative and innovative self into our working environments?32.21 Coming back to your three-year burnout, what have you adopted as practices to pay closer attention to what you are feeling and experiencing inside so you don’t find yourself going through another three year burnout before you acknowledge it?40.17 [Ollie asks Scott and Jean] How much are people talking about the relationship between their work and personal life? Is this significant or are we reverting to how life was before the pandemic?46.43 Where can people find the book and where can they find you? Social:Instagram           @evolvingleaderLinkedIn             The Evolving Leader PodcastTwitter               @Evolving_LeaderYouTube           @evolvingleader2271 The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team

In this episode of the Evolving Leader podcast, Scott moves over to the guest seat and talks to Jean and Emma about his new book ‘The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence, A Journey to Personal and Professional Success’. In addition to being co-host of this podcast, Scott is a certified Emotional Intelligence coach and Enneagram teacher, and in his new book Scott brings together these two systems to evolve our understanding of what Emotional Intelligence really is and how to cultivate the awareness we all need for success and wellbeing. ‘The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence, A Journey to Personal and Professional Success’. 0.00 Introduction3.56 Can you tell our listeners about your background and what led you to attaining these certifications in psychometrics and personality systems?6.17 Can you give us a brief overview of what the Enneagram is?9.45 Why is this book so important for you and why now?17.17 There are lots of definitions and interpretations of Emotional Intelligence. How do you define it?20.36 You mention the concepts of the true self and the denied self. What are some of the signs that your true self is being denied, and how does denying our true self actually hurt us or hold us back from future success?26.26 Can you take us through these five different components of emotional intelligence and how they unlock some of the insights that sit behind the Enneagram?30.28 In the book you identify nine types of fear, and write that acknowledging our fear is essential for developing awareness. Can you unpack that for us?33.23 There is a counter-voice in the world around all psychometrics calling them out as akin to horoscopes etc. arguing that you can see yourself in any description of personality types. What’s your take on this?36.54 The Enneagram reveals the nine personality specific defence mechanisms that will interfere with a person developing or sustaining an openness to the world. Can you tell us about those defence mechanisms and how they are attached to each of the types?43.11 Every day we see examples of people avoiding change or suppressing the things that they need to do to respond to it. Have you found quick ways of helping people to accept that and start on the journey of being more open to change?46.59 In your book you talk about ‘setting off on a never ending path of self discovery’. So what’s next for Scott Allender? Social: Instagram           @evolvingleader LinkedIn             The Evolving Leader Podcast Twitter               @Evolving_LeaderYouTube           @evolvingleader2271 The Evolving Leader is researched, written and presented by Jean Gomes and Scott Allender with production by Phil Kerby. It is an Outside production.Send a message to The Evolving Leader team