

“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies
HR Heretics
After a decade+ of “blitz-scaling” companies, HR, talent, and People leaders now face an uncertain economy that has already seen big booms and busts. What will it take to construct the next generation of incredible businesses – and where can people leaders have the most business impact?
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Hosts Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich have been through it all, the highs and the lows – IPOs, layoffs, executive turnover, board meetings, culture changes, and more. With a lineup of industry vets and experts, Nolan and Kelli break down the nitty-gritty details, trade offs, and dynamics of constructing high performing companies. Through unfiltered conversations that can only happen between seasoned practitioners – Kelli and Nolan dive deep into the kind of leadership-level strategy that often happens behind closed doors.
This show is for those who are ready to ditch conventional wisdom and figure out from first principles what works for their culture, business model, and industry, with the goal of building a resilient and enduring company. You’ll come away with real guidance for seeing around corners, building enduring companies, and carving out an impactful career – plus a newly-honed bullshit detector.
Topics frequently touched on in this season include: building high performing cultures, compensation negotiation, performance reviews, company design, equity, M&As, recruiting the best talent, and how to manage your own psychology as a people leader. hrheretics.substack.com
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 3, 2024 • 18min
How (and why!) to take time off
Exploring the challenges of taking vacations in modern HR, discussing setting boundaries for mental health and planning ahead for time off. Tips on training colleagues to enforce your vacation, deleting Slack, and recognizing false urgency.

Jul 2, 2024 • 1h 4min
From CPO to CEO: Michelle Wagner Tells All
Former Chief People Officer at AOL and Evernote, Michelle Wagner, discusses her journey to becoming the CEO of MindStrong, sharing insights on leadership transitions, challenges in engaging hybrid employees, navigating the CEO role, difficult decisions in turbulent times, post-sale expectations, and emphasizing transparency in the workplace.

20 snips
Jun 27, 2024 • 1h 2min
Navigating the Real Power Structures at Your Company
Andrew Bartlow, a seasoned HR VP, discusses the challenges across startups to Fortune 100 companies. Topics include AI in hiring, private equity dynamics, CEO-CHRO relationships, and executive compensation nuances.

Jun 25, 2024 • 30min
Scale AI's "MEI" Hiring Announcement with Richard Ni, the former Head of People
Former Head of People at Scale AI, Richard Ni, discusses the implications of the 'MEI' hiring policy focusing on meritocracy and diversity. They explore leveraging AI for interviews, balancing meritocracy and diversity, and navigating challenges in tech companies.

Jun 21, 2024 • 55min
Navigating Media, LinkedIn, and the HR Echo Chamber with Lars Schmidt
Lars Schmidt, a talent leader turned creator, discusses challenges and motivations in content creation. The conversation delves into AI in recruitment, enhancing employee engagement with WorkVivo, and maintaining authenticity in media. They explore the importance of diverse perspectives in the HR industry and the transition of leadership roles in the evolving landscape.

Jun 14, 2024 • 15min
Rippling vs. Competitors: The Ex-Employee Dilemma
Rippling's controversial HR policy of banning ex-employees from competitors in a secondary stock offering is debated. The podcast discusses the ethics and implications of this move, examining the zero-sum game, company messaging, and employee value. Regulatory implications, non-compete arguments, and the importance of understanding the 'why' behind Rippling's decision are also explored.

Jun 13, 2024 • 54min
Pendo CEO Todd Olson on Co-Founder Conflict, Hiring Slow, and Pushing Limits at a Software Unicorn
Pendo CEO Todd Olson shares insights on co-founder conflicts, unique hiring practices, and the importance of HR in business success. Topics include adapting leadership styles, CEO involvement in hiring, and elevating HR leadership for significant business impact.

Jun 11, 2024 • 15min
The Future of Management
Exploring the shift from managers to coaches in organizations, benefits of spontaneous communication, reevaluating traditional one-on-one meetings, and the importance of functional mentors in leadership development.

Jun 6, 2024 • 50min
How Big Should Your Org Grow?
Michelle Delcambre, operating partner at Felicis, shares insights on company growth trajectories, strategic HR practices, founder mistakes, pre-negotiated exits, comp strategies, and attracting top talent. They explore normalizing attrition, hiring challenges, embracing boomerang employees, and rethinking equity compensation. The podcast offers valuable advice for founders and the crucial role HR plays in building successful companies.

Jun 4, 2024 • 17min
Toxic Managers
Diving into toxic managers, they uncover shocking workplace incidents and mental health struggles, highlighting a Baidu executive's misconduct and suicides among investment bankers. They discuss signs of toxic management, prioritizing well-being, and building support networks in challenging workplaces.