We Want Them Infected Podcast

Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent take a deep dive into the controversial Great Barrington Declaration, a document that has stirred significant debate in the public health community. This declaration, penned by Dr. Sunita Gupta of Oxford, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford, and Dr. Martin Kulldorff of Harvard, proposes a pandemic response strategy centered on achieving herd immunity through natural infection, particularly among younger, healthier populations. The Underestimation of COVID-19 At the heart of the episode is a critical examination of how the declaration's authors may have underestimated the severity of COVID-19. The hosts reflect on early pandemic opinions, including those from John Ioannidis and Dr. Scott Atlas, that influenced the declaration. They discuss the implications of pursuing herd immunity without a vaccine and the potential risks to public health, especially considering the virus's impact on different age groups. Ethical Concerns and Scientific Debate A significant part of the discussion focuses on the ethical dilemmas posed by the declaration. The idea of intentionally allowing a segment of the population to be infected raises serious moral questions. The hosts challenge the notion that young people have an obligation to contract the virus, likening it to a "war" against COVID-19. The Role of Dr. Scott Atlas Dr. Scott Atlas, a prominent figure in the Trump administration's COVID-19 response, is also discussed. His support for natural infection as a pathway to herd immunity is critically examined, with the hosts highlighting his statements from various interviews and articles. The Impact of Herd Immunity Without Vaccination The episode does not shy away from discussing the historical context of herd immunity and its effectiveness in managing pandemics. The hosts argue that without vaccination, achieving lasting herd immunity may be an unattainable goal, citing examples from the history of diseases like measles and smallpox. Final Words In conclusion, the episode provides a comprehensive critique of the Great Barrington Declaration, emphasizing the need for a nuanced, ethical, and scientifically sound approach to pandemic management. The discussion underscores the complexities of public health decision-making in times of crisis and the importance of basing strategies on robust scientific evidence and ethical considerations.   Resources mentioned The Great Barrington Declaration Interviews and articles by Dr. Sunita Gupta, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, and Dr. Martin Kulldorff John Ioannidis's Stat News article from March 17, 2020 Dr. Bhattacharya's Wall Street Journal article, "Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say?" Dr. Martin Kulldorff's article, "COVID-19 countermeasures should be age specific" Dr. Scott Atlas's article, "Reentry After the Panic" Tucker Carlson's Fox News interview with Dr. Scott Atlas Twitter account @hypoautomatic Various scientific studies and data on COVID-19 mortality and transmission rates   Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com  The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

Dr. Jonathan Howard, in the absence of co-host Wendy Orent, explores the misconceptions and risky propositions around achieving herd immunity through natural COVID-19 infection. He references an article by Drs. de Souza and Dowdy from Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, highlighting the true meaning of herd immunity and its relation to vaccination. Howard critiques various early claims and redefinitions of herd immunity during the pandemic, stressing the dangers of using children as 'human shields' in the quest for herd immunity. The episode underscores the importance of vaccination in preventing serious diseases like measles, mumps, polio, and chickenpox, and debunks myths about natural immunity being beneficial for children.   List of Resources Mentioned Article: "What is Herd Immunity and How Can We Achieve It with COVID-19" by Dr. de Souza and Dr. Dowdy, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health (April 16, 2021) Article by John Ioannidis in Stat News (March 17, 2020) CNBC Article: "Sweden resisted a lockdown. And its capital Stockholm is expected to reach herd immunity in weeks." (April 22, 2020) Article by Dr. Vinay Prasad and Alison Crew (February 2022) Article: "COVID-19 And children and university students" by Dr. John Ioannidis Editorial in the BMJ discussing childhood vaccination and herd immunity The Great Barrington Declaration   Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com  The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

Dr. Jonathan Howard and expert Wendy Orent explore the contentious topic of a novel virus's origins. They examine the evolution of infectious diseases and the likelihood of laboratory involvement in the virus's emergence. The discussion revolves around the complexity of virus transmissibility, the historical context of virus outbreaks, and the challenges in pinpointing the exact origins. The conversation also addresses common conspiracy theories and the importance of scientific evidence over speculation.   Resources mentioned: SARS, Plague, Smallpox, and Ebola: Previous viruses that Wendy Orange has researched and written about. Biological Weapons: A focus area of Wendy's work. Vincent Roccaniello: A virologist mentioned in the discussion about virus transmissibility. Aron Fouchier and Nishihiro Okawa: Scientists referenced in relation to research on virus adaptation and transmissibility. Michael Warabi: A scientist whose work on virus origin tracing is discussed. Alison Young: Investigative reporter mentioned in relation to lab leak theories. Dr. Fauci: Referenced in the context of email communications regarding virus origins. Emily Kump: A writer with a viewpoint supporting the lab leak theory. Igor Domoradze: A scientist with whom Wendy worked closely, mentioned in the context of virus engineering. Dr. Parr: A scientist who co-authored a study on virus lineages.   Looking for something specific? Here you go! 00:04:41 Origin of virus still uncertain. 00:09:56 No takeaway. 00:13:04 Origin of virus still uncertain. 00:16:23 Lab leak theory debunked. 00:24:11 Lab leak theory lacks evidence. 00:24:50 Lab-origin of virus unlikely. 00:33:14 Origin of virus likely from market. 00:34:33 Lab leak theory debunked. 00:39:45 Lab leak theory lacks evidence. 00:44:10 Bats have unique immune systems. 00:51:16 No conclusive evidence for origin. Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com  The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent discuss various aspects of the COVID-19 pandemic, including the initial underestimation of the death toll by Dr. John Ioannidis. They address misconceptions such as the belief that people were dying with COVID, not of COVID, and the skepticism surrounding COVID-19 death certificates. Dr. Howard counters these claims by highlighting the challenges faced in the early stages of the pandemic, including limited testing availability. The discussion also touches on the impact of lockdowns and the belief that they caused more harm than good.    Furthermore, they challenge the notion that only elderly individuals were affected by COVID-19, emphasizing that the virus had a broader impact, even on younger individuals. The podcast explores the evolving nature of the virus and the long-term consequences that remain uncertain.   Looking for something specific? Here you go! 00:00:49 COVID death toll not inflated. 00:06:10 Lockdowns did not cause excess deaths. 00:12:29 Lockdowns caused harm but not mass death. 00:23:13 COVID-19 has long-lasting consequences. 00:24:42 COVID consequences still largely unknown. 00:31:11 Ventilators not causing high mortality. 00:40:08 COVID deaths may have been undercounted. 00:41:52 Underreporting of COVID-19 deaths 00:48:08 Misinformation can have real consequences.     Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com      The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

In this episode, the hosts critically examine COVID-19 misinformation, focusing on the widespread myths that persisted during the pandemic. They discuss the controversial stance of Dr. John Ioannidis and others who underestimated COVID's impact and compared its dangers to everyday activities like driving. The episode highlights the serious consequences of these misconceptions, including the false notion that COVID only severely affected the elderly with pre-existing conditions, and addresses the damaging claim that doctors contributed to fatalities through premature intubations.    A list of resources mentioned: Stat News Article by Dr. John Ioannidis (March 17, 2020): An article by Dr. Ioannidis which discussed COVID-19, its impact, and the reliability of data surrounding the pandemic. Interview of Dr. Ioannidis with Fox News' Mark Levin (April 2020): A notable interview where Dr. Ioannidis expressed his views on COVID-19 and its relative danger compared to everyday activities. Autopsy Series from 2016-2017 on Elderly People Who Died of Flu: Research cited by Dr. Ioannidis in his argument regarding the cause of death during the pandemic. Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) Publication: A publication referenced for discussing COVID-19 deaths in Italy and the challenge of attributing deaths to SARS-CoV-2. CDC Guidelines and Investigations into COVID-19 Deaths: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's approach to recording and verifying COVID-19 deaths, including the analysis of death certificates. Perspectives on the Pandemic 4 (Interview dated April 17, 2020): An interview featuring Dr. Ioannidis, where he discusses the pandemic, particularly focusing on the risk to younger people and the role of underlying health conditions.  Study on COVID-19 Risk Comparison to Driving: A study or analysis conducted by Dr. Ioannidis comparing the risk of dying from COVID-19 to the risk of dying from driving. Data and Reports from Italy and the United States: Various statistical data and reports from Italy and the U.S. were mentioned to highlight the differences in COVID-19 death rates and the presence of comorbidities. Reports on New York City's COVID-19 Death Toll and Management: Specific references were made to the situation in New York City, including the handling of COVID-19 deaths and the challenges faced by the healthcare system Accounts from Frontline Healthcare Workers: Personal experiences and observations from doctors and nurses dealing with COVID-19 patients were discussed, providing firsthand insights into the pandemic's impact.      Looking for something specific? Here you go! 00:00:00 COVID myths and misinformation persist. 00:06:45 Questioning the impact of COVID-19. 00:14:04 Risk of virus is manageable. 00:19:39 COVID-19 deaths can be inaccurately recorded. 00:25:20 Two conflicting views on COVID. 00:31:52 Death certificates accurately reflect COVID-19. 00:37:57 COVID death toll undercounted   Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com     The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.  The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

In this discussion, Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent discuss the early responses to the COVID-19 pandemic and the role of Dr. John E. Loannidis, a renowned scientist. They examine his initial underestimation of the virus's impact, the flaws in his predictions, and his shifting perspectives over time. Resources Mentioned: Dr. John E. Ioannidis' early writings on COVID-19 Stat News article "A Fiasco in the Making: As the Coronavirus Pandemic Takes Hold, We Are Making Decisions Without Reliable Data" (March 17, 2020) European Journal of Clinical Investigation article "Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Harms of Exaggerated Information and Non-Evidence-Based Measures" (March 19, 2020) Stephanie Seneff's critique of the Santa Clara antibody study Statistician Andrew Gelman's analysis of the study Looking for something specific? Here you go! 0:00 - Introduction to the podcast episode discussing early pandemic responses and hosts Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent. 3:10 - Discussion about Dr. John E. Loannidis and his role in questioning COVID-19 data and his contributions to evidence-based medicine. 3:52 - Dr. Loannidis' reputation as an expert in scientific methodology and evidence-based research, along with his early recognition of Elizabeth Holmes as a fraud. 12:24 - Reference to early pandemic concerns in Italy and New York and Dr. Loannidis' initial prediction of COVID-19's impact. 12:45 - Confirmation of the severity of the situation in Italy and New York during the early pandemic and Dr. Ioannidis' early prediction of 40,000 deaths in the USA. 16:05 - Analysis of Dr. Loannidis' prediction of 40,000 deaths and its accuracy, along with discussion of the Santa Clara antibody study and its criticism. 16:07 - Details about the Santa Clara antibody study, its implications, and criticism of its methodology and accuracy. 17:50 - Introduction to a discussion on a Fox News interview with Dr. Loannidis, his background, and credentials, as well as his early skepticism about COVID-19 data and revised assessment of fatality rates.   Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com    The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

Dr. Jonathan Howard, a neurologist and psychiatrist, and Co-Host, Wendy Orent, discuss the emergence of the anti-vaccine movement, particularly focusing on doctors who have contributed to spreading vaccine skepticism. They examine the early stages of the COVID-19 pandemic, the influence of certain doctors, and the alarming mainstreaming of anti-vaccine rhetoric.     About the authors: Dr. Jonathan Howard is a distinguished neurologist and psychiatrist based in New York City, practicing at NYU and Bellevue Hospital. His extensive background in neurology and psychiatry has made him a well-respected figure in the medical field. Dr. Howard has witnessed the profound impact of infectious diseases firsthand, especially during the challenging times of the COVID-19 pandemic. He brings his expertise and experience to the forefront in his work, podcast, and writing, shedding light on crucial issues related to infectious diseases and public health. Dr. Howard's dedication to accurate and evidence-based information has made him a trusted voice in the medical community, providing valuable insights into the challenges posed by pandemics and the importance of vaccination.     Wendy Orent is an American anthropologist and science writer with a focus on pandemics, biological weapons, and the evolution of infectious diseases. She is a freelance science writer whose work has appeared in "The Washington Post", "Aeon", "Undark Magazine", "The Sciences", "The Los Angeles Times", "The New Republic", "Discover", and "The American Prospect".   Looking for something specific? Here you go! 02:15 - Early Misinformation and COVID Minimization 07:30 - Rise of Conspiracy Theories 12:45 - The Formal Movement to Infect Young People 17:20 - The Influence of Pandemic Skeptics 23:10 - Impact on Vaccination Efforts 28:55 - The Fight Against Misinformation Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com  The fine print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

We Want Them Infected is a conversation that will leave you questioning everything you thought you knew about medical experts and vaccine skepticism. Our podcast reveals the hidden side of the COVID-19 pandemic, where influential doctors played a troubling role in spreading misinformation and fear. We talk about why We Want Them Infected isn't just a book; it's a call to action.  Subscribe to the show and learn how the anti-vaccine movement went mainstream, affecting public health and trust in science. Are you ready?   About the authors: Dr. Jonathan Howard is a distinguished neurologist and psychiatrist based in New York City, practicing at NYU and Bellevue Hospital. His extensive background in neurology and psychiatry has made him a well-respected figure in the medical field. Dr. Howard has witnessed the profound impact of infectious diseases firsthand, especially during the challenging times of the COVID-19 pandemic. He brings his expertise and experience to the forefront in his work, podcast, and writing, shedding light on crucial issues related to infectious diseases and public health. Dr. Howard's dedication to accurate and evidence-based information has made him a trusted voice in the medical community, providing valuable insights into the challenges posed by pandemics and the importance of vaccination. Wendy Orent is an American anthropologist and science writer with a focus on pandemics, biological weapons, and the evolution of infectious diseases. She is a freelance science writer whose work has appeared in "The Washington Post", "Aeon", "Undark Magazine", "The Sciences", "The Los Angeles Times", "The New Republic", "Discover", and "The American Prospect".   Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com  The fine print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.  The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.