We Want Them Infected Podcast

This episode of "We Want Them Infected" features a critical examination of the role and challenges of randomized controlled trials (RCTs) in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic. Hosts Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orange discuss how the pandemic has tested the limits of RCTs, which are often considered the gold standard in medical research. They address the ethical concerns that arise when implementing RCTs during a crisis, such as the risk to participants and the feasibility of obtaining informed consent under emergency conditions. Jonathan shares his experience participating in an RCT for the AstraZeneca vaccine, highlighting both the personal commitment involved and the broader implications of such trials. The conversation also touches on the practical challenges faced by medical teams during the pandemic, including resource limitations and the psychological toll on healthcare workers. The hosts critique the weaponization of RCT rhetoric to undermine public health measures, discussing specific cases where RCTs were demanded as the only valid proof of effectiveness, despite the urgent need for timely action. They emphasize the importance of balancing scientific rigor with ethical responsibility and practicality, advocating for adaptive research methods that can respond to the dynamic nature of a global health emergency. List of Resources: Journal Articles on RCTs - Research papers that discuss the methodology, outcomes, and ethical considerations of randomized controlled trials. COVID-19 Studies - A collection of published studies specifically related to COVID-19 treatments and vaccine trials. Ethics in Medical Research - Books and articles that explore ethical dilemmas in conducting medical research during pandemics. History of RCTs - Publications detailing the development and evolution of randomized controlled trials in medical science. Public Health Policy During Pandemics - Resources that examine the intersection of public health policy, research methodology, and crisis management. Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

The focus of today's episode turned to Dr. Vinay Prasad, a once-distinguished oncologist who has become a leading advocate for the controversial pro-infection movement. Hosts Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent criticized Prasad's shift towards advocating for natural COVID-19 infection over vaccination in children, an approach they argue is both unethical and scientifically unfounded. The discussion highlighted Prasad's journey from a reputable medical expert to a figure promoting potentially harmful public health strategies. By tracing his public statements and writings, the hosts illustrated how his views have evolved, seemingly influenced by anti-vaccine rhetoric and the misinterpretation of scientific data. They pointed out the contradiction between Prasad's earlier professional achievements and his current advocacy, which includes supporting exposure to COVID-19 in children as a means to achieve herd immunity. The episode also touched on the broader implications of promoting such ideas, particularly the risk they pose to pediatric health and the potential erosion of public trust in vaccinations and established medical guidance. The hosts argued that this approach could lead to increased susceptibility to preventable diseases, not just for individuals but for public health at large. This stark transformation in Prasad's professional stance serves as a cautionary tale about the influence of misinformation in medicine and the delicate balance required in public health policy. As the debate over natural immunity versus vaccination continues, the episode underscores the importance of grounding public health strategies in robust scientific evidence and ethical considerations. List of Resources Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): Updates on COVID-19 vaccinations and health guidelines. World Health Organization (WHO): Information on global health standards and COVID-19 response. Johns Hopkins University Coronavirus Resource Center: Real-time data and expert analysis on COVID-19 trends. National Institutes of Health (NIH): Research and guidelines on COVID-19 and vaccinations. Peer-reviewed medical journals (such as The Lancet, New England Journal of Medicine): Research articles on COVID-19, vaccinations, and public health policy. Books on epidemiology and public health policy: For comprehensive understanding and historical context on pandemics and health strategies. Science Based Medicine: Critical analysis of medical treatments, including debates on vaccination and natural immunity. Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Dr. Jonathan Howard delves into the controversial tenure of Dr. Scott Atlas as President Trump's coronavirus advisor. Atlas, who lacked a background in infectious diseases, was a proponent of achieving herd immunity by allowing the virus to spread among low-risk populations—a strategy considered dangerous by many health experts. The podcast critiques Atlas's approach, which ignored the potential for severe consequences across all age groups and disproportionately impacted vulnerable populations. Howard points out that Atlas's policies were not grounded in solid scientific consensus but were instead influenced by a misinterpretation of herd immunity concepts. The episode also touches on the real-world outcomes of these policies, such as increased COVID-19 cases and deaths that could have been mitigated with more prudent measures. Additionally, Howard highlights the shift in public discourse as some supporters of Atlas's strategies attempt to reframe their past positions to appear more sympathetic towards children's education rather than admitting to their original intentions of using young people as a means to an end. This analysis is critical not just of Atlas but of the broader administration's handling of the pandemic, suggesting that a more measured, scientifically sound approach could have saved countless lives. Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

The conversation scrutinizes the advocacy for herd immunity as a response to COVID-19, highlighting the ethical and practical issues with targeting unvaccinated children and young adults for infection. It explores the aftermath of the Great Barrington Declaration, including minimized concerns for COVID-19 variants and opposition to vaccinations for children. Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent also address the negative repercussions on healthcare services and education, underscoring the dissonance between initial pandemic strategies and subsequent reassessments of those approaches. The hosts emphasize the importance of reflecting on the pandemic's handling to understand the implications of decision-making during health crises. List of Resources: Great Barrington Declaration - An open letter advocating for a herd immunity approach to handling the COVID-19 pandemic. CDC Reports - Documents detailing the impact of COVID-19 on healthcare systems and the effectiveness of vaccines. Science-Based Medicine Articles - Analyses critiquing the scientific basis and implications of pandemic policies. Interviews with Dr. Scott Atlas - Various media appearances where Dr. Atlas discusses his views on COVID-19 management. House Sub-Select Committee Report - "The Atlas Dogma" report, evaluating Dr. Atlas's influence on the U.S. pandemic response. Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent engage in a comprehensive critique of the movement advocating for herd immunity through natural infection among unvaccinated populations. They dissect the flawed arguments presented in early pandemic responses, highlighting Dr. Jay Bhattacharya's controversial statements and the backlash from the scientific community. The episode critically analyzes the Great Barrington Declaration, its implications, and its failure to address the complexities of COVID-19 management effectively. Through their discussion, Howard and Orant explore the broader consequences of misinformation and the ethical considerations in public health strategies, emphasizing the importance of vaccination and accurate scientific communication. List of Resources Great Barrington Declaration: A controversial statement advocating for focused protection and herd immunity through natural infection. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya's Writings: Articles and tweets from Dr. Bhattacharya offering a perspective on COVID-19's fatality rate and management strategies. COVID-19 Vaccine Studies: Research on the efficacy and importance of vaccination, especially in preventing severe outcomes among vulnerable populations. Public Health Response Critiques: Analyses and critiques of the various public health responses to the COVID-19 pandemic, including the effectiveness of lockdowns, mask mandates, and vaccination campaigns. Ethical Considerations in Pandemic Management: Discussions on the ethical dilemmas faced by public health officials and the general public during the COVID-19 pandemic. Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Hosts Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent critically examine the strategy of intentionally infecting unvaccinated populations to reach herd immunity. The discussion revisits predictions made by health experts in the early stages of the pandemic, highlighting how optimistic expectations often fell short in the face of evolving challenges, such as the emergence of new variants. The conversation covers significant dates and statements from various health experts, analyzing their implications and the reality of their outcomes. The hosts discuss the ethical and practical considerations of exposing children and young adults to the virus, questioning the morality and feasibility of such approaches. Reflecting on the journey of the pandemic, the episode emphasizes the complexity of herd immunity as a concept and its role in public health strategy. It calls for a nuanced understanding of herd immunity, recognizing the importance of vaccination and the limitations of natural infection in controlling the spread of COVID-19. Through this detailed examination, "We Want Them Infected" provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of herd immunity, challenging previous assumptions and advocating for a more cautious and evidence-based approach to ending the pandemic. List of Resources Articles by health experts mentioned in the podcast (e.g., Dr. John Ioannidis, Marty McCary, Monica Gandhi, Dr. Lucy McBride). Science-Based Medicine website for articles on herd immunity and COVID-19 predictions. Johns Hopkins resources on herd immunity and vaccination strategies. The Great Barrington Declaration and its frequently asked questions for perspectives on herd immunity. CDC and WHO guidance on COVID-19, vaccination, and herd immunity. Research studies on the effectiveness of natural immunity and vaccination against COVID-19 variants. Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Dr. Jonathan Howard takes a solo dive into the rationale behind some medical professionals' controversial endorsement of natural COVID-19 infection over vaccination to achieve herd immunity. Addressing a query from a listener, the podcast episode aims to uncover the motivations behind such a high-risk strategy, beyond the commonly cited reasons of greed and political influence. Throughout the episode, Howard examines the stance of several respected doctors from prestigious institutions who surprisingly supported the notion of purposeful exposure to the virus among the unvaccinated, particularly children and young adults. This approach starkly contrasts with the global push for vaccination and stringent public health measures. Central to the discussion is Dr. John Ioannidis, known for his early pandemic research that suggested COVID-19's infection fatality rate was significantly lower than initially feared, likening it to that of seasonal influenza. Ioannidis's viewpoints, including skepticism towards lockdowns and the emphasis on the severe potential side effects of pandemic containment measures, are dissected to understand the underpinning logic of the pro-infection movement. Howard critically navigates through Ioannidis's and others' assertions, contrasting them with the devastating impact of COVID-19 as it unfolded, highlighting the dangers of underestimating the virus's lethality and overestimating herd immunity's achievability without vaccines. The episode concludes on a reflective note, pondering the lessons learned from this pandemic approach and the importance of humility and adaptability in the face of evolving scientific evidence. List of Resources: Perspectives on the Pandemic, Dr. John Ioannidis Interview on YouTube. COVID-19 Antibody Seroprevalence in Santa Clara County, California - Study by Dr. John Ioannidis. The Great Barrington Declaration website. Science-Based Medicine blog - Analysis and critique of pandemic responses. CDC COVID-19 Response - Official data and guidelines. WHO COVID-19 Dashboard - Global statistics and research updates. "Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Harms of Exaggerated Information and Non-Evidence Based Measures" - Article by Dr. John Ioannidis. The Washington Post - Articles discussing Dr. Ioannidis's pandemic viewpoints. Stat News - "A Fiasco in the Making? As the Coronavirus Pandemic Takes Hold, We Are Making Decisions Without Reliable Data" by Dr. John Ioannidis. Fareed Zakaria GPS - Interviews discussing the pandemic response. Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent discuss the complex and controversial strategies surrounding COVID-19, particularly focusing on the approach to infect unvaccinated individuals for herd immunity. They critique the Great Barrington Declaration's focus on protecting the elderly and other high-risk groups through measures like testing, reduced staff rotation, and non-admittance of COVID-19 affected individuals into nursing homes. They highlight the challenges and impracticalities of these measures, citing real-world examples and expert opinions. The conversation sheds light on the broader ethical and logistical issues in managing the pandemic and protecting vulnerable populations. List of Resources: Great Barrington Declaration: Original document proposing focused protection as a way to manage the COVID-19 pandemic. Voices for Vaccines: Articles by Noah Lewis Ferdinand critiquing the Great Barrington Declaration. CDC Reports: Data and analyses on COVID-19 transmission dynamics and vaccination effectiveness. The New York Times: Articles on the ongoing challenges faced by nursing homes during the pandemic. Health and Human Services Reports: Insights into infection control lapses and staffing shortages in nursing homes. Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent tackle the controversial Great Barrington Declaration, which proposes allowing COVID-19 to spread among unvaccinated children and young adults to achieve herd immunity. This strategy, according to the declaration, would protect vulnerable populations through "focused protection." Howard and Orent explore the ethical and logistical challenges of this approach, highlighting the difficulty in segregating vulnerable individuals from the rest of the population. They question the feasibility of creating an "impenetrable wall" to shield those at risk and critique the declaration's simplistic measures such as frequent testing in nursing homes, reduced staff rotation, and the delivery of essentials to the elderly. The hosts argue that the declaration overlooks the complexity of COVID-19 management, offering solutions that are either too vague, impractical, or have been actively undermined by its proponents. Through their discussion, they expose the declaration's failure to account for the broader social and economic implications of letting the virus run rampant among younger, supposedly less vulnerable groups. Ultimately, Howard and Orent's analysis reveals the Great Barrington Declaration as a flawed strategy, lacking in comprehensive planning and sensitivity to the realities of the pandemic. Their conversation underscores the importance of a balanced and ethical approach to public health that protects all individuals, regardless of their perceived vulnerability to COVID-19. List of Resources: The Great Barrington Declaration - The official document outlining the declaration's approach to COVID-19 management. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) - Offers updated guidelines and information on COVID-19, including measures to protect vulnerable populations. World Health Organization (WHO) - Provides a global perspective on COVID-19 management strategies, including critiques of herd immunity. Science-Based Medicine - Features critical analyses of health policies, including an article on the Great Barrington Declaration. New England Journal of Medicine - Contains detailed protocols for COVID-19 vaccine trials, offering insight into the scientific rigor of pandemic management. MedPage Today - Includes discussions and debates on the Great Barrington Declaration and herd immunity strategies. Hoover Institute - Hosts interviews and discussions with proponents of the Great Barrington Declaration, offering insights into their perspectives. Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent tackled the contentious issue of measles outbreaks in New Orleans and Florida, placing a spotlight on the unconventional public health advice dispensed by Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo. Ladapo's guidance, which diverged from traditional outbreak management by allowing unvaccinated children to attend school, sparked widespread concern among public health professionals and vaccination advocates. The discussion extended beyond the immediate crisis, addressing the influence of anti-vaccine rhetoric, notably from figures associated with the Great Barrington Declaration, on public health strategies. The episode critically examined the implications of such policies on the broader goal of maintaining high vaccination rates against preventable diseases. Howard and Orant highlighted the danger of conflating the discourse around COVID-19 vaccines with other vaccination efforts, suggesting that such debates could erode trust in vaccines more generally. They pointed out the irony in the arguments of some anti-vaccine advocates, who, despite lacking expertise in infectious diseases, have significantly influenced public perceptions and policies. By dissecting statements from various public figures and comparing the responses to measles and COVID-19, the hosts underscored the inconsistency and potential harm in minimizing the impact of COVID-19 on children while overstating the safety of foregoing measles vaccinations. The podcast served as a call to action for a more informed and consistent approach to public health, emphasizing the necessity of trusting scientific consensus over politically or ideologically motivated guidance. In delving into the complex landscape of vaccine hesitancy, the episode illuminated the critical role of trust and accurate information in combating infectious diseases. The hosts' discussion was a stark reminder of the challenges facing public health officials in navigating the delicate balance between individual freedoms and the collective good in the fight against preventable diseases. List of Resources: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC): For the latest guidelines, data, and research on measles and other vaccine-preventable diseases. World Health Organization (WHO): Provides global insights on vaccination, disease outbreaks, and health policy recommendations. The History of Vaccines: An educational resource by The College of Physicians of Philadelphia detailing the history and science of vaccination. Vaccine Confidence Project: Research and reports on public confidence in vaccines and the impact of misinformation. Science-Based Medicine: Articles and critiques on medical practices, including the discussion on vaccines vs. anti-vaccine movements. STAT News: For in-depth health reporting, including articles by Helen Branswell mentioned in the show. The Lancet: Peer-reviewed medical journal with research and commentary on health, policy, and diseases. Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health: Offers resources and courses on epidemiology, infectious diseases, and public health principles. National Foundation for Infectious Diseases (NFID): Information on disease prevention, including vaccination awareness campaigns. Immunize.org: Provides practical and factual vaccine information for healthcare professionals and the public. Connect with us further on jonathanhowardmd.com The Fine Print: The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.