We Want Them Infected Podcast

In this powerful and deeply unsettling episode, Jonathan and Wendy take listeners on a guided tour of the growing dysfunction at America’s top public health agencies. They expose the political entrenchment of ideologues like Vina Prasad and Marty Makary, the purging of veteran FDA scientists like Nicole Verdun, and the accelerating efforts to rubber-stamp drug approvals without oversight. Along the way, they dissect the roles of Jay Bhattacharya, Monica Gandhi, and others who—whether through naïveté or complicity—helped usher in a new era where science is optional and public health is performative. With deeply personal reflections, biting critique, and raw concern, they highlight a chilling truth: the institutions once trusted to safeguard health are now tools of political theater, and those who warned us early are watching their worst fears materialize. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/  The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

Join Jay Bhattacharya, a controversial figure at the NIH, as he navigates through the chaos surrounding America’s health infrastructure. The podcast dives into the NIH staff rebellion fueled by budget cuts and questions on accountability. They also tackle the troubling intersections of misinformation and vaccine advocacy, emphasizing the urgent need for transparency and reform. Bhattacharya faces scrutiny for his lack of awareness during Senate hearings, while the hosts confront the real implications of the dismantling public health policies amidst a wave of skepticism.

Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent tear apart David Zweig’s controversial book on school closures during the COVID-19 pandemic. Orent, who penned a scathing review, joins to dissect Zweig’s misleading statistics, glaring omissions (like Delta and Omicron), and his cozy alignment with figures like Jay Bhattacharya and Marty Makary. The conversation dives into how public health history is being rewritten in real time—and the real-world harm it causes, particularly for children, pregnant women, and public trust in science. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/  The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

When the loudest critics of COVID mitigation take power, their tune changes—but not for the better. In this episode, Jonathan and Wendy unravel the contradictions and consequences of new booster guidelines championed by Drs. Makary and Prasad. Once RCT absolutists, they now admit boosters are vital for the elderly—but block access for the rest, citing shaky rationale and misrepresented international comparisons. With NIH Director Jay Bhattacharya abdicating leadership and RFK Jr. laying groundwork to question childhood vaccines, the stakes are no longer theoretical. This isn’t about science—it’s about control, and the cost may be millions of unboosted, unprotected lives. Let me know if you'd like a thumbnail caption, social post, or edited quote card next. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/  The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.  The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent unpack the deep ironies and ethical contradictions behind recent appointments at the NIH and FDA. From once-demanded randomized controlled trials now deemed “not always necessary,” to the political operatives now at the helm of America’s public health infrastructure, the duo explores how power rewrites principles. They dissect statements from RFK Jr., Vinay Prasad, and Jay Bhattacharya, drawing attention to the chilling real-world consequences of politicized medicine—especially for vaccines and children’s health.   Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/  The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent examine the alarming elevation of wellness influencer Casey Means as Surgeon General nominee, despite lacking a medical license or conventional medical credibility. They delve into Vinay Prasad’s appointment as head of vaccine regulation, scrutinizing his past critiques of RCT deficiencies—and the impossible standards he now sets for himself. The episode also investigates the troubling rise of an autism registry, likened to authoritarian categorization, and NIH’s internal collapse under Jay Bhattacharya, whose leadership is marked by mass layoffs and denial of responsibility. With science policy veering into cronyism, dismantling, and performative governance, the episode argues that we’re witnessing a historic erosion of public health leadership—led not by scientists, but social media provocateurs. Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/  The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.  The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information. The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content. The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content. Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer. Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.

Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent return to discuss the alarming direction of U.S. public health, focusing on RFK Jr.’s misinformation campaign about vaccines, the threat of COVID booster access disappearing under political pressure, and the erosion of CDC authority.  They critique the hypocrisy of figures like Marty Makary and Vinay Prasad who now call for new randomized controlled trials while simultaneously undercutting access to vaccines.  The conversation also highlights the troubling revisionist COVID narratives being pushed by mainstream journalists and the dangerous implications of gutting pandemic protections—particularly for vulnerable groups.   Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/  The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

In this episode, Jonathan and Wendy reunite to unpack an overwhelming cascade of public health failures. From the misuse of "soft eugenics" rhetoric to justify vaccine hesitancy, to the measles outbreaks being minimized and blamed on migrants and past COVID policies, they trace the unraveling of scientific integrity under the new administration. They highlight how figures like RFK Jr., Marty Makary, and Jay Bhattacharya have normalized misinformation, degraded public trust, and allowed preventable diseases to resurge. Despite some isolated bright spots, the episode paints a stark portrait of how ideology, not evidence, is now driving federal health leadership.   Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/  The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

On this week's episode of We Want Them Infected, Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent dive into the apocalyptic headlines coming out of U.S. public health agencies. From mass firings at the NIH and FDA, to the appointment of anti-vaccine ideologues like Jay Bhattacharya and Marty Makary, this episode chronicles the rapid unraveling of institutional science under RFK Jr.'s administration. The duo unpack the performative contradictions, gaslighting statements, and political interference now shaping federal health policy—and ask, how bad can it really get?   Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/  The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.  

In their most urgent and emotionally charged episode yet, Dr. Jonathan Howard and science journalist Wendy Orent confront the accelerating unraveling of public health institutions in the United States under the RFK Jr. administration. They open with a flood of disturbing headlines: Peter Marks, the nation’s top vaccine expert, has been ousted. Measles is surging in Texas, and children are arriving at hospitals with liver failure after being treated with toxic vitamin A overdoses—recommended by RFK-aligned influencers. The CDC and NIH are being gutted: funding pulled, scientists fired, and research into vaccine hesitancy and mRNA technology halted. David Geier, a disgraced figure with a history of chemically castrating autistic children, has been tapped to lead a new federal vaccine safety study. Howard and Orent don’t hold back. They rip into this dystopian reversal of public health, where disinformation peddlers are now calling the shots. They highlight the sheer absurdity and danger of putting figures like Jay Bhattacharya, Scott Atlas, and Geier in positions of power—people who have spent years sowing distrust in vaccines, downplaying COVID, and demonizing public health measures. The episode draws a brutal contrast between the lived reality of frontline doctors and essential workers—many of whom died in early pandemic waves—and the self-styled martyrs of the anti-lockdown movement, who now paint themselves as victims. One particularly enraging example: Bhattacharya’s claim that he felt “unsafe” on Stanford’s campus after a flyer was posted with his own quote alongside Florida’s Delta wave death tolls. This, while over 20,000 Floridians died in that wave, many unvaccinated due to the policies he championed. A major target of their critique is the book In COVID’s Wake, which they say rewrites history by glorifying the authors of the Great Barrington Declaration and ignoring the real human toll of their misinformation. Orent and Howard dismantle the book’s central claim—that these anti-lockdown figures were treated unfairly—pointing out that many of them became media darlings, got promoted, or were appointed to powerful roles. Meanwhile, real scientists and doctors who fought on the frontlines were ignored, censured, or worse. They also expose the cynical “woke-washing” by these same figures—claiming to champion the poor and marginalized while promoting policies that left essential workers unprotected. Their concern for “equity,” Howard and Orent argue, was nothing more than rhetorical cover for libertarian, laissez-faire ideology. As the episode barrels toward its conclusion, one message becomes chillingly clear: We are watching the active dismantling of public health—science silenced, disinformation rewarded, and truth replaced by ideology. And as Dr. Howard puts it: “If we had predicted these headlines six months ago, we would’ve sounded insane. But now, they’re reality.” This episode is a searing call to action. For scientists. For journalists. For anyone who still believes in truth, public health, and protecting the vulnerable. Because as Orent warns: “The wild horses of the plague apocalypse are descending... and the party’s just beginning.”   Connect with us further on https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/author/jonathanhoward/  The Fine Print The content presented in the "We Want Them Infected" Podcast and associated book is intended for informational and educational purposes only.    The views and opinions expressed by the speakers, hosts, and guests on the podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the creators, producers, or distributors. The information provided in this podcast should not be considered as a substitute for professional medical, scientific, or legal advice. Listeners and readers are encouraged to consult with relevant experts and authorities for specific guidance and information.   The creators of the podcast and book have made reasonable efforts to ensure that the information provided is accurate and up to date. However, as the field of medical science and the understanding of the COVID-19 pandemic continue to evolve, there may be new developments and insights that are not covered in this content.   The creators are not responsible for any errors or omissions in the content or for any actions taken based on the information provided. They disclaim any liability for any loss, injury, or damage incurred by individuals who rely on the content.   Listeners and readers are urged to use their judgment and conduct their own research when interpreting the information presented in the "We Want Them Infected" podcast and book. It is essential to stay informed about the latest updates, guidelines, and recommendations related to COVID-19 and vaccination from reputable sources, such as government health agencies and medical professionals. By accessing and using the content, you acknowledge and accept the terms of this disclaimer.   Please consult with appropriate experts and authorities for specific guidance on matters related to health, science, and the COVID-19 pandemic.