Fearless Creative Leadership

When was the last time you admitted you were wrong? In this episode, we’re going back in to the archives for a conversation I had with Mark Thompson, early in 2019. Mark was the Director General of the BBC before becoming CEO of the New York Times in 2012. One of his many claims to fame is that he brought both institutions into the digital age, establishing the New York Times as one of the most successful digital news platforms in the world. To me, his leadership is marked by a self-effacing honesty and personal courage. Early in our conversation, Mark talked about walking towards the gunfire. Literally. He was a journalist before he became a leader of institutions. Most of us, hopefully, won’t be asked to demonstrate courage of quite that level during our leadership lives. Leadership is complex. It’s like playing four-dimensional chess as we try to find the places of intersection between what is needed of us by a host of moving parts, and our own ability to provide them. For almost every leader, saying ‘I was wrong’ challenges our essential sense of who we are and what leadership is about. It’s not easy to find that place on most people’s leadership chessboard. But, as the nature of leadership changes, as people come to demand less defensive behavior of their leaders and more humanity, finding the courage to say ‘I was wrong’ will be the surest test of your leadership potential. Think of it as the leadership equivalent of walking towards the gunfire. And if you turn and head in the other direction, what does that say about you?

Edited highlights of our full conversation. When was the last time you admitted you were wrong? In this episode, we’re going back in to the archives for a conversation I had with Mark Thompson, early in 2019. Mark was the Director General of the BBC before becoming CEO of the New York Times in 2012. One of his many claims to fame is that he brought both institutions into the digital age, establishing the New York Times as one of the most successful digital news platforms in the world. To me, his leadership is marked by a self-effacing honesty and personal courage. Early in our conversation, Mark talked about walking towards the gunfire. Literally. He was a journalist before he became a leader of institutions. Most of us, hopefully, won’t be asked to demonstrate courage of quite that level during our leadership lives. Leadership is complex. It’s like playing four-dimensional chess as we try to find the places of intersection between what is needed of us by a host of moving parts, and our own ability to provide them. For almost every leader, saying ‘I was wrong’ challenges our essential sense of who we are and what leadership is about. It’s not easy to find that place on most people’s leadership chessboard. But, as the nature of leadership changes, as people come to demand less defensive behavior of their leaders and more humanity, finding the courage to say ‘I was wrong’ will be the surest test of your leadership potential. Think of it as the leadership equivalent of walking towards the gunfire. And if you turn and head in the other direction, what does that say about you?

Are you happy? Nils Leonard is the co-founder of Uncommon London. Nils has been on the podcast before. I ask him back pretty regularly because every one of our conversations expands my understanding of leadership. I think he keeps saying, “Yes,” because each time he learns something about himself. In this week’s episode, we covered a lot of new ground. In truth, I could have highlighted a number of areas as worthy of close attention. But this is the one that really stands out for me. Life is short. Careers are shorter. I find myself saying this quite often these days as a reminder that within the maelstrom of running a business, we are also, and more importantly, living a life. Leadership comes at you hard and fast. It is demanding and unrelenting and it is easy - very easy - to get swept along in the expectations that are placed on us. Managing those expectations are hard when they come from other people. But the more important and consequential challenge is to manage the expectations we have of ourselves. The first and critical step is to define what you mean by success. In all its forms and attributes. Personally, I believe that one of those definitions should include the word ‘happy’. Too many people think doing that makes them selfish. But in my experience, the people that are clear that they want to be happy are also the ones who have given the most thought to what that means to them. Often, most often, it includes the desire to help others unlock their potential. So, are you doing something that makes you happy? And how do you know?

Edited highlights of our full conversation. Are you happy? Nils Leonard is the co-founder of Uncommon London. Nils has been on the podcast before. I ask him back pretty regularly because every one of our conversations expands my understanding of leadership. I think he keeps saying, “Yes,” because each time he learns something about himself. In this week’s episode, we covered a lot of new ground. In truth, I could have highlighted a number of areas as worthy of close attention. But this is the one that really stands out for me. Life is short. Careers are shorter. I find myself saying this quite often these days as a reminder that within the maelstrom of running a business, we are also, and more importantly, living a life. Leadership comes at you hard and fast. It is demanding and unrelenting and it is easy - very easy - to get swept along in the expectations that are placed on us. Managing those expectations are hard when they come from other people. But the more important and consequential challenge is to manage the expectations we have of ourselves. The first and critical step is to define what you mean by success. In all its forms and attributes. Personally, I believe that one of those definitions should include the word ‘happy’. Too many people think doing that makes them selfish. But in my experience, the people that are clear that they want to be happy are also the ones who have given the most thought to what that means to them. Often, most often, it includes the desire to help others unlock their potential. So, are you doing something that makes you happy? And how do you know?

Edited highlights of our full conversation. Are you happy? Nils Leonard is the co-founder of Uncommon London. Nils has been on the podcast before. I ask him back pretty regularly because every one of our conversations expands my understanding of leadership. I think he keeps saying, “Yes,” because each time he learns something about himself. In this week’s episode, we covered a lot of new ground. In truth, I could have highlighted a number of areas as worthy of close attention. But this is the one that really stands out for me. Life is short. Careers are shorter. I find myself saying this quite often these days as a reminder that within the maelstrom of running a business, we are also, and more importantly, living a life. Leadership comes at you hard and fast. It is demanding and unrelenting and it is easy - very easy - to get swept along in the expectations that are placed on us. Managing those expectations are hard when they come from other people. But the more important and consequential challenge is to manage the expectations we have of ourselves. The first and critical step is to define what you mean by success. In all its forms and attributes. Personally, I believe that one of those definitions should include the word ‘happy’. Too many people think doing that makes them selfish. But in my experience, the people that are clear that they want to be happy are also the ones who have given the most thought to what that means to them. Often, most often, it includes the desire to help others unlock their potential. So, are you doing something that makes you happy? And how do you know?

Are you selfish? Kerry Sulkowicz is the President of the American Psychoanalytic Association. He’s also a leadership advisor in his own right. It’s a role that requires the ability to look beyond the public-facing image that most leaders feel they need to present, so that we can see the person within. Leaders often have a difficult time making themselves a priority. It’s not hard to understand why, given the pressure that leaders face on an hour-by-hour basis. There’s the pressure from above. Because, as Marc Pritchard, the CMO of P&G, said to me on an earlier episode, leadership is a weight-bearing position and demands that you help lift the people that work for you. There’s the pressure from all the people in front of you, those in the many audiences you face, who expect you to show up as a thoughtful, confident leader - perhaps even as a thought leader. And there’s the pressure from the people behind you, the board and the shareholders, who expect you to drive business performance forward, regardless of the circumstances. And that’s without mentioning the pressure that you place on yourself. The pressure to succeed. To not fail. To overcome the imposter syndrome and the self-doubts. In the middle of all that, it’s easy to convince yourself that it would be selfish to take care of yourself first. Except, as Kerry explains, it’s not. Taking care of yourself first is a requirement. A necessity if you are to become a leader capable not only of withstanding the pressure, but using it as a catalyst to drive the business upwards, into the future. Only once you have taken care of yourself can you then, confidently and at scale, take care of everyone else.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. Are you selfish? Kerry Sulkowicz is the President of the American Psychoanalytic Association.  He’s also a leadership advisor in his own right. It’s a role that requires the ability to look beyond the public-facing image that most leaders feel they need to present, so that we can see the person within. Leaders often have a difficult time making themselves a priority. It’s not hard to understand why, given the pressure that leaders face on an hour-by-hour basis. There’s the pressure from above. Because, as Marc Pritchard, the CMO of P&G, said to me on an earlier episode, leadership is a weight-bearing position and demands that you help lift the people that work for you. There’s the pressure from all the people in front of you, those in the many audiences you face, who expect you to show up as a thoughtful, confident leader - perhaps even as a thought leader. And there’s the pressure from the people behind you, the board and the shareholders, who expect you to drive business performance forward, regardless of the circumstances. And that’s without mentioning the pressure that you place on yourself. The pressure to succeed. To not fail. To overcome the imposter syndrome and the self-doubts. In the middle of all that, it’s easy to convince yourself that it would be selfish to take care of yourself first. Except, as Kerry explains, it’s not. Taking care of yourself first is a requirement. A necessity if you are to become a leader capable not only of withstanding the pressure, but using it as a catalyst to drive the business upwards, into the future. Only once you have taken care of yourself can you then, confidently and at scale, take care of everyone else.

What are you going to preserve? Madeleine Grynsztejn is the Pritzker Director of the Museum of Contemporary Art Chicago. She sees society from a distinctive vantage point, through the lens of an organization that exists to generate inquiry. Her work is to encourage communities to learn from themselves and from each other. To help us examine our past and be intentioned about our future. Leading a creative business demands that we look ahead, vigorously, bravely and relentlessly. Where are we going, how will we know when we get there, and who’s joining us on the journey? We hold on to the past at great risk. Risk to our success and sometimes to our survival. But Madeleine’s point frames the future through an important question. Because, while we must fight the status quo, our future is built on the pillars of the past. You can’t build a monument to modern thinking on sand. You need substantive foundations and platforms. You need to bring lessons from the past forward with you, so that we don’t make the same mistakes twice, and so that we have something to lean on that we can trust. Which parts of the past do you need to let go of? And which parts are you going to preserve?

Edited highlights of our full conversation. What are you going to preserve? Madeleine Grynsztejn is the Pritzker Director of the Museum of Contemporary Art Chicago. She sees society from a distinctive vantage point, through the lens of an organization that exists to generate inquiry. Her work is to encourage communities to learn from themselves and from each other. To help us examine our past and be intentioned about our future. Leading a creative business demands that we look ahead, vigorously, bravely and relentlessly. Where are we going, how will we know when we get there, and who’s joining us on the journey? We hold on to the past at great risk. Risk to our success and sometimes to our survival. But Madeleine’s point frames the future through an important question. Because, while we must fight the status quo, our future is built on the pillars of the past. You can’t build a monument to modern thinking on sand. You need substantive foundations and platforms. You need to bring lessons from the past forward with you, so that we don’t make the same mistakes twice, and so that we have something to lean on that we can trust. Which parts of the past do you need to let go of? And which parts are you going to preserve?

What terrifies you? Marcel Marcondes is the Global Chief Marketing Officer for AB InBev. Becoming the successful Global CMO of any major brand is a life’s dream for many people. If you’re one of the few to make it, it’s easy to get caught up in the gestalt of the thing. The public adulation that comes with the buying power and influence that you suddenly wield. But for the very best of them, being a Global CMO brings out the human being in you. I’m not conscious that I’ve ever heard prominent leader publicly use the phrase, ‘sometimes it’s also terrifying’. There are three points to make coming from Marcel’s memorable use of that phrase. One - that business is in great hands because it’s being run by someone who’s conscious of the responsibility and is also conscious that he needs to be courageous to keep it moving forward. The fastest path to letting the status quo win is to believe that what you should be doing next doesn’t require courage. Two - more talented people will want to work for Marcel because he is honest about the size and the consequence of the challenge. And if there is a single truth that I’ve learned, it’s that creative people want to make one thing more than anything else - a difference. And three - leadership is a constant battle between fear and courage. It has to be. If you feel afraid a lot, you’re probably on the right path to making a difference. If you sometimes feel terrified, you definitely are.