Fearless Creative Leadership

Are you selfish? Kerry Sulkowicz is the President of the American Psychoanalytic Association. He's also a leadership advisor in his own right. It's a role that requires the ability to look beyond the public-facing image that most leaders feel they need to present, so that we can see the person within. Leaders often have a difficult time making themselves a priority. It's not hard to understand why, given the pressure that leaders face on an hour-by-hour basis. There's the pressure from above. Because, as Marc Pritchard, the CMO of P&G, said to me on an earlier episode, leadership is a weight-bearing position and demands that you help lift the people that work for you. There's the pressure from all the people in front of you, those in the many audiences you face, who expect you to show up as a thoughtful, confident leader - perhaps even as a thought leader. And there's the pressure from the people behind you, the board and the shareholders, who expect you to drive business performance forward, regardless of the circumstances. And that's without mentioning the pressure that you place on yourself. The pressure to succeed. To not fail. To overcome the imposter syndrome and the self-doubts. In the middle of all that, it's easy to convince yourself that it would be selfish to take care of yourself first. Except, as Kerry explains, it's not. Taking care of yourself first is a requirement. A necessity if you are to become a leader capable not only of withstanding the pressure, but using it as a catalyst to drive the business upwards, into the future. Only once you have taken care of yourself can you then, confidently and at scale, take care of everyone else.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. Are you selfish? Kerry Sulkowicz is the President of the American Psychoanalytic Association. He's also a leadership advisor in his own right. It's a role that requires the ability to look beyond the public-facing image that most leaders feel they need to present, so that we can see the person within. Leaders often have a difficult time making themselves a priority. It's not hard to understand why, given the pressure that leaders face on an hour-by-hour basis. There's the pressure from above. Because, as Marc Pritchard, the CMO of P&G, said to me on an earlier episode, leadership is a weight-bearing position and demands that you help lift the people that work for you. There's the pressure from all the people in front of you, those in the many audiences you face, who expect you to show up as a thoughtful, confident leader - perhaps even as a thought leader. And there's the pressure from the people behind you, the board and the shareholders, who expect you to drive business performance forward, regardless of the circumstances. And that's without mentioning the pressure that you place on yourself. The pressure to succeed. To not fail. To overcome the imposter syndrome and the self-doubts. In the middle of all that, it's easy to convince yourself that it would be selfish to take care of yourself first. Except, as Kerry explains, it's not. Taking care of yourself first is a requirement. A necessity if you are to become a leader capable not only of withstanding the pressure, but using it as a catalyst to drive the business upwards, into the future. Only once you have taken care of yourself can you then, confidently and at scale, take care of everyone else.

What are you going to preserve? Madeleine Grynsztejn is the Pritzker Director of the Museum of Contemporary Art Chicago. She sees society from a distinctive vantage point, through the lens of an organization that exists to generate inquiry. Her work is to encourage communities to learn from themselves and from each other. To help us examine our past and be intentioned about our future. Leading a creative business demands that we look ahead, vigorously, bravely and relentlessly. Where are we going, how will we know when we get there, and who's joining us on the journey? We hold on to the past at great risk. Risk to our success and sometimes to our survival. But Madeleine's point frames the future through an important question. Because, while we must fight the status quo, our future is built on the pillars of the past. You can't build a monument to modern thinking on sand. You need substantive foundations and platforms. You need to bring lessons from the past forward with you, so that we don't make the same mistakes twice, and so that we have something to lean on that we can trust. Which parts of the past do you need to let go of? And which parts are you going to preserve?

Edited highlights of our full conversation. What are you going to preserve? Madeleine Grynsztejn is the Pritzker Director of the Museum of Contemporary Art Chicago. She sees society from a distinctive vantage point, through the lens of an organization that exists to generate inquiry. Her work is to encourage communities to learn from themselves and from each other. To help us examine our past and be intentioned about our future. Leading a creative business demands that we look ahead, vigorously, bravely and relentlessly. Where are we going, how will we know when we get there, and who's joining us on the journey? We hold on to the past at great risk. Risk to our success and sometimes to our survival. But Madeleine's point frames the future through an important question. Because, while we must fight the status quo, our future is built on the pillars of the past. You can't build a monument to modern thinking on sand. You need substantive foundations and platforms. You need to bring lessons from the past forward with you, so that we don't make the same mistakes twice, and so that we have something to lean on that we can trust. Which parts of the past do you need to let go of? And which parts are you going to preserve?

What terrifies you? Marcel Marcondes is the Global Chief Marketing Officer for AB InBev. Becoming the successful Global CMO of any major brand is a life's dream for many people. If you're one of the few to make it, it's easy to get caught up in the gestalt of the thing. The public adulation that comes with the buying power and influence that you suddenly wield. But for the very best of them, being a Global CMO brings out the human being in you. I'm not conscious that I've ever heard prominent leader publicly use the phrase, 'sometimes it's also terrifying'. There are three points to make coming from Marcel's memorable use of that phrase. One - that business is in great hands because it's being run by someone who's conscious of the responsibility and is also conscious that he needs to be courageous to keep it moving forward. The fastest path to letting the status quo win is to believe that what you should be doing next doesn't require courage. Two - more talented people will want to work for Marcel because he is honest about the size and the consequence of the challenge. And if there is a single truth that I've learned, it's that creative people want to make one thing more than anything else - a difference. And three - leadership is a constant battle between fear and courage. It has to be. If you feel afraid a lot, you're probably on the right path to making a difference. If you sometimes feel terrified, you definitely are.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. What terrifies you? Marcel Marcondes is the Global Chief Marketing Officer for AB InBev. Becoming the successful Global CMO of any major brand is a life's dream for many people. If you're one of the few to make it, it's easy to get caught up in the gestalt of the thing. The public adulation that comes with the buying power and influence that you suddenly wield. But for the very best of them, being a Global CMO brings out the human being in you. I'm not conscious that I've ever heard prominent leader publicly use the phrase, 'sometimes it's also terrifying'. There are three points to make coming from Marcel's memorable use of that phrase. One - that business is in great hands because it's being run by someone who's conscious of the responsibility and is also conscious that he needs to be courageous to keep it moving forward. The fastest path to letting the status quo win is to believe that what you should be doing next doesn't require courage. Two - more talented people will want to work for Marcel because he is honest about the size and the consequence of the challenge. And if there is a single truth that I've learned, it's that creative people want to make one thing more than anything else - a difference. And three - leadership is a constant battle between fear and courage. It has to be. If you feel afraid a lot, you're probably on the right path to making a difference. If you sometimes feel terrified, you definitely are.

Edited highlights of our full conversation. What terrifies you? Marcel Marcondes is the Global Chief Marketing Officer for AB InBev. Becoming the successful Global CMO of any major brand is a life's dream for many people. If you're one of the few to make it, it's easy to get caught up in the gestalt of the thing. The public adulation that comes with the buying power and influence that you suddenly wield. But for the very best of them, being a Global CMO brings out the human being in you. I'm not conscious that I've ever heard prominent leader publicly use the phrase, 'sometimes it's also terrifying'. There are three points to make coming from Marcel's memorable use of that phrase. One - that business is in great hands because it's being run by someone who's conscious of the responsibility and is also conscious that he needs to be courageous to keep it moving forward. The fastest path to letting the status quo win is to believe that what you should be doing next doesn't require courage. Two - more talented people will want to work for Marcel because he is honest about the size and the consequence of the challenge. And if there is a single truth that I've learned, it's that creative people want to make one thing more than anything else - a difference. And three - leadership is a constant battle between fear and courage. It has to be. If you feel afraid a lot, you're probably on the right path to making a difference. If you sometimes feel terrified, you definitely are.

What role does love play in your leadership? Before we start, I want to acknowledge the death of someone who played a big role in helping Chris and I to create the film editing company that we built in the '90s and 2000s. Jim Garrett was a brilliant businessman and a gentleman. He was the founder of the award winning and internationally recognized production company, Garrett and Partners, and he worked with directors like John Schlesinger, Nick Roeg, Ken Russell and Richard Loncraine along the way. I've posted a link to his obituary in the London Times in this week's show notes. When we were conceiving our film editing company in 1994, Jim sat down with Chris and I over lunch in London, and gave us advice that formed the foundational DNA of a business which is still thriving almost thirty years later. Many of the principles and practices on which that business operates today came from that lunch. All of us who have spent any part of our careers working at the original Lookinglass or at the Whitehouse film editing companies owe Jim our thanks. His impact was and is enormous. And now, on with the show. Devika Bulchandani is the global CEO of Ogilvy. And her view of leadership includes an impassioned belief that seemed so obvious to me once she said it, but which I have never heard before. The business of running a business does not usually contain much discussion of love. You hear people say occasionally, "I love what I'm doing," or "I love where I work." You can see evidence of passion in some people, particularly business founders. But the idea of saying "I love you" to a co-worker will send tremors down the backs of HR and Talent leaders across the entire spectrum of the creative industries. And yet, as Devika asks, wouldn't the world be better by the way if we all just felt more of it? We live in a time of apparently limitless upheaval. And we will spend roughly a quarter of that time at our jobs. Shouldn't part of that upheaval be to challenge the norms under which we're working? Including the possibility that "I love you" might be a leading indicator of what it means to be a more human leader. Where do you draw the line? And why?

Edited highlights of our full conversation. What role does love play in your leadership? Before we start, I want to acknowledge the death of someone who played a big role in helping Chris and I to create the film editing company that we built in the '90s and 2000s. Jim Garrett was a brilliant businessman and a gentleman. He was the founder of the award winning and internationally recognized production company, Garrett and Partners, and he worked with directors like John Schlesinger, Nick Roeg, Ken Russell and Richard Loncraine along the way. I've posted a link to his obituary in the London Times in this week's show notes. When we were conceiving our film editing company in 1994, Jim sat down with Chris and I over lunch in London, and gave us advice that formed the foundational DNA of a business which is still thriving almost thirty years later. Many of the principles and practices on which that business operates today came from that lunch. All of us who have spent any part of our careers working at the original Lookinglass or at the Whitehouse film editing companies owe Jim our thanks. His impact was and is enormous. And now, on with the show. Devika Bulchandani is the global CEO of Ogilvy. And her view of leadership includes an impassioned belief that seemed so obvious to me once she said it, but which I have never heard before. The business of running a business does not usually contain much discussion of love. You hear people say occasionally, "I love what I'm doing," or "I love where I work." You can see evidence of passion in some people, particularly business founders. But the idea of saying "I love you" to a co-worker will send tremors down the backs of HR and Talent leaders across the entire spectrum of the creative industries. And yet, as Devika asks, wouldn't the world be better by the way if we all just felt more of it? We live in a time of apparently limitless upheaval. And we will spend roughly a quarter of that time at our jobs. Shouldn't part of that upheaval be to challenge the norms under which we're working? Including the possibility that "I love you" might be a leading indicator of what it means to be a more human leader. Where do you draw the line? And why?

Edited highlights of our full conversation. What role does love play in your leadership? Before we start, I want to acknowledge the death of someone who played a big role in helping Chris and I to create the film editing company that we built in the '90s and 2000s. Jim Garrett was a brilliant businessman and a gentleman. He was the founder of the award winning and internationally recognized production company, Garrett and Partners, and he worked with directors like John Schlesinger, Nick Roeg, Ken Russell and Richard Loncraine along the way. I've posted a link to his obituary in the London Times in this week's show notes. When we were conceiving our film editing company in 1994, Jim sat down with Chris and I over lunch in London, and gave us advice that formed the foundational DNA of a business which is still thriving almost thirty years later. Many of the principles and practices on which that business operates today came from that lunch. All of us who have spent any part of our careers working at the original Lookinglass or at the Whitehouse film editing companies owe Jim our thanks. His impact was and is enormous. And now, on with the show. Devika Bulchandani is the global CEO of Ogilvy. And her view of leadership includes an impassioned belief that seemed so obvious to me once she said it, but which I have never heard before. The business of running a business does not usually contain much discussion of love. You hear people say occasionally, "I love what I'm doing," or "I love where I work." You can see evidence of passion in some people, particularly business founders. But the idea of saying "I love you" to a co-worker will send tremors down the backs of HR and Talent leaders across the entire spectrum of the creative industries. And yet, as Devika asks, wouldn't the world be better by the way if we all just felt more of it? We live in a time of apparently limitless upheaval. And we will spend roughly a quarter of that time at our jobs. Shouldn't part of that upheaval be to challenge the norms under which we're working? Including the possibility that "I love you" might be a leading indicator of what it means to be a more human leader. Where do you draw the line? And why?