Transforming Work with Sophie Wade

Mark Ma, a research professor at the University of Pittsburgh, studies social and economic issues including Return To Office (RTO) mandates, AI, and tax evasion. A working parent during the pandemic, Mark describes how personal and community experiences initially generated his interest in researching remote work options and hybrid policies. He shares his discoveries that stock market declines generated RTO mandates but not improved corporate results. Mark discusses the dynamics of executives’ control, power, and distrust affecting work policies. He advocates for workplace flexibility—giving employees and teams choices.       TAKEAWAYS   [02:23] While Mark’s parents advised him to study accounting, he found it fascinating.   [03:01] For his PhD, Mark explores financial analysis, and his tax avoidance research is cited.   [03:45] Passionate about research, Mark pursues academia, also appreciating the flexible lifestyle.   [05:09] Parental challenges during the pandemic fuels Mark’s interest in remote work options.   [05:50] Noticing neighbors’ complaints about returning to the office, Mark attends a conference and hears about working from home research.   [06:41] Mark gets tenure and explores risky research projects that help improve people’s lives.   [08:25] In late 2022, Mark starts collecting data on companies’ return-to-office mandates.   [09:25] Leaders say remote workers aren’t working hard, while employees keep performing.   [11:06] Return-To-Office mandates often happen after a stock price crash—but why?   [12:00] How remote work gets blamed—without evidence—for poor performance.   [14:36] RTO mandates also result from executives’ loss of control and not trusting employees.   [15:40] Companies may also use RTO policies to easily/cheaply lay off employees.   [18:16] Male and powerful CEOs—with higher relative salaries—issue more RTO mandates to assert control.   [21:38] Employee and team choice is recommended combined with intentional office time.   [22:32] Mark needs data from companies offering employee choice to confirm the best approach.   [24:58] Amazon’s shifts to 3-days/wk then 5-days/week RTO has caused employee dissatisfaction and departures.   [25:50] One example of Nvidia’s flexible policy enables it to benefit from Amazon’s rigid one.   [26:59] Mark finds no evidence that RTO mandates help firms’ performance or stock price.   [27:43] Should productivity be measured appropriately and over what time period?   [29:12] States level data shows structured hybrid work reduces depression and suicide risks.   [32:00] Fully remote workers often self-select which fits their lifestyle and social setup.   [32:50] Companies going fully remote need regular off-site engagements to mitigate isolation.   [34:18] New research explores RTO mandates’ affect turnover, especially in finance and tech.   [35:20] Initial findings show higher turnover, especially among women, follows RTO mandates.   [36:48] After RTOs announcements, turnover increases quickly as some people can’t go back to the office.   [39:06] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: “First, allow flexibility so employees have choice. Second, promote flexible team leaders to signal that people working from home will not be penalized. Third, for new graduate hires who want to work at the office, ensure mentors are present to support them.     RESOURCES   Mark Ma on LinkedIn Is Workplace Flexibility Good for the Environment? Research on Return To Office Mandates Mental Health Benefits of Workplace Flexibility     QUOTES “The more powerful CEOs and the male CEOs are more likely to impose return-to-office mandates.”   “You should allow team choice plus employee choice. That means teams decide when they want to come to office together. And on those in office days, those meetings should be intentional.”   “We clearly do not find any evidence that Return To Office mandates help firms’ performance or stock price.”   “Five-day in-office work is not necessarily good for your mental health.”   “A lot of top executives, when they do not see the employees in the office, they do not trust the employees. They feel they have lost control of the employees.”   "Firms are telling their employees, you can work from home, but you will not be promoted. That's not a good strategy because your good employees will leave."   "By promoting flexible team leaders, you will send a signal to those people who want to stay remote or hybrid that there is a clear career path for them."

Mika Cross is a Workplace Transformation Strategist at Strategy@Work. She discusses her military career and years federal government agency experience including talent management, workplace flexibility, and wellness. Mika shares her approach to distributed teams, performance management, and work-life balance. She describes how flexible private sector workforce management policies, informed by public sector successes, foster engagement, retain talent, and meet the diverse needs of the modern, distributed workforce. Mika describes how remote work options allow us to reimagine veterans’ and civilians’ working lives and communities.     TAKEAWAYS   [02:39] MIka works wants to be a journalist then has to take a break in her studies.   [03:17] A mentor suggests military service so Mika can complete her education and serve nobly.   [04:26] Mika has some job options from Uncle Sam after finishing top three in her officer training class.   [05:35] Mika is attracted by inclusive workplaces that support the whole soldier and family.   [06:32] Working for a rapidly deployable unit, Mika must support distributed teams holistically.   [07:33] The military is facing shortages, how can retention be improved using flexibility?   [09:15] How to share knowledge across agencies while dealing with confidential information.   [10:31] What does employee experience look like in the federal government?   [11:49] The power of communication to enable effective policy implementation.   [13:41] Managers want discretion and information to make the right decisions for their teams.   [16:11] With deep knowledge of federal regulations, Mika takes an integrated systems approach.   [17:44] What are the blocks to effective equal opportunity?   [18:37] Mika finds some workplace flexibility policy options blocked by supervisors.   [19:50] Mindsets can prevent advancements or enable cultural transformation.   [21:26] How to measure the impact of policies including cost savings.   [23:04] Taking a multi-pronged approach with broad buy in and incentivized training.   [24:25] Celebrating wins, measuring engagement, and saving on leases.   [25:34] The benefits of getting multiple share stakeholders on board.   [26:36] The USDA gets recognition and rewards as one of America's best workplaces.   [27:25] Achieving savings of $8 million per year through telecommuting.   [31:00] Negotiating work policies with 92 unions!   [36:34] Enabling veterans’ smooth transitions into civilian jobs requires many types of flexibility.   [38:20] Mika explores upskilling, reskilling and benefits.   [40:14] Veterans often returning to Hometown USA find few jobs after years of rural brain drain.   [41:20] Three ways to provide thriving healthy supportive workplaces to veterans.   [42:43] Military spouses need remote work options as they support transitioning veterans.   [45:01] The wild opportunity to reimagine the nation, rebuilding Hometown USA.   [46:58] The importance of soft skills -- or success skills as Mike calls them.   [48:18] Mika believes in career readiness skills so workers learn how to work.   [49:14] Moving to a skills-based talent economy.   [50:27] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: If you don’t include flexibility in your work policies and turnover increases, recognize the burden on employees who stay and the loss of skills and organizational knowledge. Instead, extend a little trust and autonomy first, hold people accountable second, and teach flexible open mindsets.     RESOURCES   Mika Cross on LinkedIn Mika’s website MikaCross.com     QUOTES   “I ended up seeing the power of inclusive workplaces, supportive workplaces, policies, procedures and programs that supported the whole soldier in order to get the best out of our troops, especially when they are deploying into conflict and being separated from their families and having to support the other half of that equation, which is their spouse, their families, their children, their loved ones.”   “It really helped me to inform, regardless of what my work was or what projects I was working on, how are people interpreting even the wording in these policies to be able to implement them successfully the way we intended.”   “The Secretary of Agriculture had included telework work life and wellness as a component of his vision for cultural transformation and had monthly metrics to which he reviewed and held his sub cabinet committee accountable for each and every month.”   “If you have jobs that are suitable to be done in a remote capacity, could you be leveraging those remote jobs for the purpose of attracting and hiring an amazing skillset of talent from either military spouses or transitioning veterans?”   “We're looking at wild opportunity for our nation to rebuild and put emphasis in areas of the country that sort of have been left behind in the past.”   “When you consider older workers staying longer, trying to continue working, this can really create opportunity not just for employers, but for those communities where they live. If they're able to continue contributing their tax base, to the infrastructure, and re-imagining what our Hometown USAs can look like all around the country.”   “What we used to call soft skills; I like to call them success skills—skills that any worker needs in any industry and occupation. These are what can set you apart from someone else. Things like critical thinking, autonomous work ethic, conflict resolution skills, interpersonal, and intergenerational skills.”

Paul J. Zak is a Professor and Director of the Center for Neuroeconomics Studies at Claremont Graduate University. Paul is the Founder of Immersion Neuroscience a company that enables measurement of immersion in experiences in real-time. He has authored books including Immersion and The Trust Factor. Paul emphasizes customer lifetime value and the effect of creating extraordinary experiences for customers and employees. He discusses the neuroscience linking trust, psychological safety, and employee engagement to improved business outcomes. Paul highlights emotional fitness and how leaders creating empathetic, trust-based cultures enable employees to flourish, boosting their satisfaction and well-being.     TAKEAWAYS   [02:43] Paul studies mathematics, biology, and neuroscience to understand human behavior.   [03:21] ‘Why are we nice to each other?’ has been a core area of study in Paul’s lab.   [04:00] Humans are naturally group-oriented and thrive when working collaboratively.   [05:35] Creating extraordinary employee experiences is key to engagement and performance.   [06:52] Paul focuses on Customer Lifetime Value (CLV) supported by strong employee engagement.   [07:40] Improved customer service helps customers and can boost employee satisfaction too.   [10:12] Businesses must focus on retaining talent by fostering employee growth and satisfaction.   [11:15] Paul advocates for a coaching model of leadership that encourages autonomy.   [12:06] Trust with psychological safety allows employees to be comfortable and burn less neurologic energy.   [13:46] Leaders must create environments for people to flourish, not expecting consistency.   [14:39] The "Whole Person Review" is forward-looking focusing on professional, personal, and spiritual growth.   [16:56] With empathy and trust closely related, leaders best recognize employees as humans with emotions and personal lives.   [18:12] Paul enjoys daily huddles fostering team connection and alignment at work.   [19:04] Leaders benefit from in-person interactions to build and sustain relationships.   [22:04] What experiences do people value? Offer the office as a social emotional hub.   [24:24] Six peak immersion moments per day lasting three minutes build emotional fitness.   [24:56] Adding a social layer to any experience increases neurologic immersion and satisfaction.   [25:32] Video conference interactions achieve 50- 80% of the value of in-person interactions.   [28:35] Leaders need to understand brain responses to nurture psychological safety.   [29:20] Teams of 15-20 perform better because individuals can maintain strong connections.   [30:09] Creating an environment where people can flourish and be fully engaged at work and outside work.   [32:18] Eight factors generate peak immersion moments so employees can adjust assignments with their supervisor.   [33:09] A Google employee finds she loves coaching and moves to Facebook to mentor developers.   [34:38] Crafting jobs that challenge people—to do what is hard to master but achievable.   [35:40] Conversations about investing in professional development—a key trust factor.   [37:50] Train extensively then delegate generously to give people control over their work lives.   [38:41] Autonomy and job satisfaction improved when hospital nurses had more decision-making power in patient care.   [41:12] Leaders should model behaviors they want to see.   [43:52] Stress is not bad—manageable challenges can stimulate engagement and bonding.   [44:42] Paul’s skydiving experiences and his oxytocin and stress levels inverted over time.   [46:05] Challenges at work enable employees to perform at their best and achieve satisfaction.   [47:02] Create environments where employees can flourish, be safe, have immersion moments, and connect with each other.   [49:14] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: For a longer happier life, invest time in things that excite and engage you to build up emotional fitness and resilience. Emotional fitness motivates people to exercise more, eat and sleep better which improves health and extends life span.       RESOURCES   Paul J. Zak Ph.D. on LinkedIn Paul’s company Immersion’s website Paul’s books “Immersion”, “The Trust Factor”, “The Moral Molecule”       QUOTES (edited)   “If employees do not love what they're doing, they're just not going to perform as well. So how do I create this environment where employees can really flourish and share that with customers?”   “You have this kind of inverted pyramid where leadership is at service of the individual--employees who are creating value. Then you see this great connection with the company's purpose.”   “If we can create an environment where employees have this real sense of mission, they're connected to the purpose of the organization, they're working in an environment where they really can flourish professionally, then when they come home, they actually are more satisfied with their lives outside of work.”   “If I understand an employee as a leader—you're not human capital, you're a human being—you have emotions, you have a personal life. Hopefully, you love what you do here, you feel like you're fairly compensated and you're excited about how we improve our customers' lives. If I recognize all of that, then I'm going to be much more of a guide or a coach and less of a top-down micromanager.”   “I have to have this empathy of intolerance for the kind of weirdness of human beings!”   “Am I creating this environment of psychological safety where people are sufficiently comfortable, so they have the brain bandwidth to be fully in on the tasks they're doing?”   “From a psychological perspective, when people have control over their work lives, they have greater job satisfaction. They don't get burned out as often. And when an employee is trained, then they need some discretion on how they execute their job.”

Kelly Monahan, Ph.D., is Managing Director of Upwork’s Research Institute, with research published in applied and academic journals. Kelly is the author of “How Behavioral Economics Influences Management Decision-making: A New Paradigm.” She shares insights from studies of strategic leadership and organizational behavior. Kelly urges executives and managers to rethink their approach to work and leading a distributed, blended, and AI-augmented workforce. She emphasizes accessing versus acquiring skilled talent enabling businesses to be agile and compete.     TAKEAWAYS   [02:21] Kelly misses a human element in her business degree so gets into strategic leadership.   [03:10] Kelly aligns with Edward Deming’s thinking that systems are the issue, not the people.   [03:57] Leadership feels broken. As part of her Ph.D., Kelly researches how people learn.   [04:55] Kelly discovers business philosophy is founded on the assumption that people are lazy.   [05:50] Kelly focuses on how leaders can appeal to people’s intrinsic motivations.   [06:31] Early in her career, Kelly works as a media planner during the financial crisis.   [08:55] In 2015, CEOs 3 big worries: more distributed work, blended workforces, AI taking jobs.   [12:05] Leaders struggle to manage distributed and cross-functional teams.   [12:35] Leading through influence, not hierarchy, requires the new power skill, empathy.   [13:13] Most leadership theories derive from the military and don’t translate well for business.   [14:37] Kelly finds more emphasis on empathy in the military than business leadership.   [00:15:19] At Accenture, the pandemic lockdown stops Kelly from announcing a new people-first approach.   [00:17:27] During the crisis, Kelly stress-tests the framework and sees employees’ needs evolve.   [00:19:40] Kelly joins Meta, excited about the possibilities of VR/AR in shaping the future of work.   [00:20:28] Tech companies have location-centric cultures so what is distributed work going to look like? [21:20] Hands-on, Kelly tries to understand how leadership norms and careers will evolve.   [22:00] Relying on local talent will not be sufficient as engineer must be hired further afield.   [22:50] How Ready Player One expresses some of Kelly’s technology-related fears.   [23:28] Meta focuses on bringing social presence and connections into digital environments.   [24:53] Kelly is bullish about personal connections and realistic human presence in virtual space.   [26:05] Virtual environments could democratize access to learning, but there are trade-offs.   [26:45] Kelly goes to Upwork seeing the urgent need for companies to access skilled external talent.   [28:58] Over 2-3 years, Kelly predicts companies have a more blended talent mix to be more agile.   [31:16] Freelancers tend to stay competitively upskilled compared to full-time employees.   [32:14] GenAI is disrupting tasks, causing leaders to rethink how work is done and by whom.   [35:05] HR strategies do not align with Gen Zers’ desire for diversified work to have financial stability.   [37:05] Kelly advocates more dynamic “talent access” rather than “talent acquisition.”   [39:00] Using an abundant mindset rather than a scarcity ‘war for talent’-type mindset.   [41:00] Kelly highlights NASA which successfully uses external talent to solve big problems.   [42:56] Kelly believes connecting business performance with new ways of working is key for businesses survival.   [45:15] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP:  Rather than thinking of a job when analyzing work, consider ‘what’s the problem I’m trying to solve for?’ Then what are the skills you need to achieve the project and how can AI and skilled freelancers be incorporated as part of the solution?      RESOURCES Kelly Monahan on LinkedIn Upwork Upwork’s Research Institute Care to do better Research     QUOTES (edited)   “The true power skill today of how people lead—it's not through formal structure, it is through their ability to empathize and move people to move in a direction they otherwise wouldn't.”   “Whether it's transformational leadership or servant leadership or authentic leadership, all these different theories, they really didn't translate well into the business world because so much of it was actually still from a transactional, top down driven approach.”   “Today's need, urgent need, is to help leaders begin to realize that there's really skilled outside talented, that they need to learn how to capture and create the processes and leadership styles and environment to actually bring in this talent in order to continue to navigate the turbulent times we were in.”   “I think the next wave of innovation is going to come from a much more disciplined approach of how companies are organizing their talent, in particular, and beginning to really right size the mix that they need. Skills change too quickly to continue to keep really large, full-time core up to date. It's nearly an impossible task.”   “Freelancers tend to be at the bleeding edge of their skilling. When your livelihood depends on it, you make the time to upskill and learn. We're seeing that with generative AI as being the most recent use case—freelancers are much more ahead of this technology curve.”   “How much is this [Generative AI] actually disrupting work at the task level itself, which is going to cause leaders to rethink ‘How do I actually really need to get this work done? Is it a full time employee or is it a combination of a freelancer and AI working together to get this work delivered?’”   “Leadership and talent in HR strategies have not kept pace with the way that the social contract has changed. When you ask the majority of Gen Z'ers today in particular, ‘Where do you find the more stability? Is it that one to one relationship or is it the one to many?’ The majority of Gen Z are telling us it's the one to many is where they actually feel more stable and they feel more in control of their career.”   “The majority of executives have been taught 'I'm in a war for talent'. When you have that mindset, it's very much a scarcity mindset. Because we're dealing with people and human beings, I encourage much more of a collaborative ecosystem, an abundant mindset as opposed to a scarcity mindset.”

John Hopkins PhD is Associate Professor of Supply Chain Management at Swinburne University of Technology. He is also Founder of WorkFLEX which helps people transition to new ways of working. John discusses how his academic involvement in supply chain dynamics and traffic congestion led him to investigate flexible working. He highlights the long-term sustainability of hybrid work, emphasizing its potential to reduce supply chain bottlenecks and improve work-life balance. John discusses Australia's new “Right to Disconnect” law and other countries introducing healthy work boundaries. He predicts work time reduction is the next big work topic.     TAKEAWAYS   [02:08] John starts his working career with a mechanical engineering apprenticeship.   [02:37] John studies mechanical engineering with management, focusing on supply chains.   [03:15] Learning about global business flow working at a car parts supplier.   [04:10] John’s PhD on e-commerce explores emerging virtual marketplaces.   [05:35] A UK defense project John works on uses technology to support fast decision-making.   [06:34] Researching traffic flow, supply chain challenges relate to office-centric work culture.   [07:30] John questions why people are commuting each day to the office.   [08:55] Employees’ tools are no longer city based.   [09:50] John and his partner travel around the world, love Australia and pledge to go back.   [11:40] John’s interest in technologies enabling supply chain communication and collaboration.   [12:20] John wins an innovation fellowship and uses his research on flexible working to launch WorkFLEX.   [13:30] The pandemic hits and John develops online course content to help people adapt.   [15:20] #1: Companies wanted flexible working and reacted quickly given enough motivation.   [16:23] #2: Attitudes and behaviors adapted rapidly as well.   [17:20] #3: 2024 has been a seminal year as hybrid is firmly embedded in Australian work practices.   [18:24] John finds the hybrid compromise to be a win-win.   [19:57] Most companies are not implementing hybrid well, not customizing the model.   [22:00] We need to discuss with employees what work they are doing and where = how.   [24:50] How the pandemic shone a light on the supply chain.   [25:30] John was Mr. Toilet Paper for a while in 2020!   [27:40] Research that combines supply chains and flexible working.   [30:32] Lack of effective risk management in supply chains was highlighted during the crisis.   [32:35] Cities were designed based on people flow—e.g. where water processing is needed.   [33:40] Some of the return to office push is related to investment in city infrastructure.   [36:19] Scale is the biggest issue with supply chains.   [37:10] Technologically sophisticated supply chains are patchworks of thousands of moving parts.   [38:22] We take for granted the relationships that enable us to have easy access to so much.   [39:25] Trust is essential to make the supply chain work.   [41:28] The new “Right to Disconnect” law in Australia comes into effect in August 2024.   [42:25] Before 2009, we actively needed to “connect” to access work outside office hours.   [44:44] The norm of being connected was never specified, so the law is a first healthy boundary on work practices.   [47:40] France’s similar law in 2017 did not reduce productivity and emergencies are excluded.   [48:22] Giving workers confidence to not respond and reverse unhealthy behavioral norms.   [50:04] Governments may not need to create more mandates; flexible work is already in process.   [50:38] The Right to Request Flexibility laws in Singapore and the UK.   [51:25] Next step may be the Four Day Workweek, now ‘work’ is being discussed broadly.   [52:50] The intensification of work combined with longer working hours.   [54:04] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Keep it simple. Go to the basics. Make decisions based on ‘would the customer care’?       RESOURCES   John Hopkins PhD on LinkedIn WorkFLEX Australia John Hopkins PhD press on the “Right to Disconnect”       QUOTES (edited)   “We need to start thinking about what the work is that the people are doing and how often they should come together based on that, not based on anything else.”   “I feel that one thing the pandemic has done is that it's allowed us to have discussions about anything to do with work.”   “Trust is a really big thing. So in terms of supply chain, you need to be able to trust that you are going to get from a supplier what you need when you need it, in the quantity that you need, and the quality that you need.”   “We've got this intensification of work because we have all these tools that do things quicker and quicker for us. We're working more hours and doing more per hour.”   “Let's not have these mandates that just say two days or three days or whatever, with no further thinking or justification behind that. That's going to upset everybody.”   “Looking at flexible and remote work and flexible work arrangements and how that can impact and benefit supply chains. Let's remember that almost every organization has a supply chain. So everybody's got some support in a supply chain somewhere along the line.”   “My big prediction in terms of what will happen next in this whole kind of field is more about work time reduction.“   “It was never written into a policy that I'm aware of where we would say, you will be available to do this, you will be available to do that. It’s a societal norm that has evolved.”   “What this law is doing, or it's certainly taking the first step towards achieving, is putting a boundary around work time and rest time.”   #fourdayworkweek #timereduction #supplychain #hybridmodel #righttodisconnect #australia #bottlenecks #flexibility #flexibleworking #congestion #trafficflow #worklifebalance

Dan Smolen is the host and executive producer of the "What's Your Work Fit?" podcast and a veteran executive recruiter. He explores how talent dynamics are evolving in the modern workplace as recruiters shift to focus on candidates' ability to adapt, learn continuously, and work collaboratively. Dan shares his insights on early talent’s new definitions of success, their emphasis on work/life balance, and preferences for flexible working. Dan describes how these changes are reshaping recruitment strategies and the critical role of empathy in modern hiring practices.Top of FormBottom of Form     TAKEAWAYS   [02:03] Dan chooses his college based on his interest in broadcasting.   [03:02] The Watergate scandal stimulates Dan’s passion for journalism at high school.   [03:44] Dan's goal was to become a news producer as he loves the news!   [04:53] An internship at Qube during college helps Dan realize broadcasting isn’t a good fit.   [06:16] Mentored by a legend in advertising, Dans focuses on marketing.   [07:31] During his early career, Dan works long hours and deals with difficult creative talent.   [09:04] Dan soon manages significant revenue for a top ad agency.   [10:56] While achieving early success, Dan’s workload impacts his well-being.   [11:57] Offered an interesting and lucrative opportunity, Dan transitions to recruiting and loves it.   [15:51] Recruitment requires deep understanding of both client needs and candidate fit.   [17:15] As clients recover from 9/11, Dan adopts a more human-centric approach to recruiting.   [19:50] LinkedIn's launch in 2003 fosters Dan's consultative recruiting approach.   [23:26] Dan goes deeper into clients' organizational issues and achieves more success.   [25:34] Situational interview techniques better match candidates with new job realities.   [27:28] Fast-paced marketplace changes require recruiting adaptable, lifelong learners.   [29:11] Companies shift from seeking specialized skills to valuing generalists willing to learn.   [32:26] Dan notices the benefits of proactive recruitment, engaging talent before roles open up.   [34:52] Early engagement with prospects helps companies build better, longer-lasting teams.   [37:17] Dan uses a "rent to own" model for testing candidate-company fit when necessary.   [39:53] Dan predicts more entrepreneurship as young people seek flexible work arrangements.   [42:54] Traditional office-based arrangements roles are less appealing to younger generations.   [43:50] Dan decides to end his recruiting career and pursue his passion for podcasting.   [46:22] Dan's relationships with talent were a key driver for his recruiting success.   [47:42] "What's Your Work Fit?" podcast explores what makes work meaningful for individuals.   [49:34] Each guest is asked, "What makes work a wonderful part of your day?"   [51:24] Dan believes people are increasingly seeking meaningful work that balances with life.   [54:03] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Your success is what you make of it. You don’t know where you’re headed. Don’t worry. Put on a good pair of shoes, strap on your backpack and enjoy the journey. Even savor the screw-ups, the mess ups and the learning opportunities!   [55:32] Dan emphasizes the importance of hobbies and diverse experiences for a fulfilling life.   [56:04] Engaging with people and creating serendipity are key to living a balanced, inspired life.     RESOURCES   Dan Smolen on LinkedIn “What’s Your Work Fit?” podcast Dan Smolen’s website     QUOTES   “The opportunity that we have before us is to impart to workplace entrants like our children's ages, is to say to them that your success is what you make of it. Don't let others define what it means to be successful".   "You don't know where you're headed. You don't know where it's going to lead you. You don't know the milestones along the way. Don't worry. Put on a good pair of shoes, strap on your backpack, and enjoy the journey“.   “Savor the screw ups and the mess ups and the learning opportunities, because without those, you're not going to end up in a beautiful place. You've got to have the learning that comes from pain and disappointment and longing in your career so that you grow as a person."   “They look at that and say, that's not a life. I want to have a day where I'm doing work, I'm doing things that I really enjoy, but I may want to do blended things.”   “For the first time that I can recognize, talent look at the day where work is a beautiful part of it.”   "If you don't know how to work on a team now, if you don't know how to be part of something bigger than yourself, I think it's going to be very difficult ongoing.”

Annie Dean, Vice President and Global Head of Team Anywhere at Atlassian, discusses her transformative work in modern workplace experiences. She shares insights on rationalizing meetings and fostering productivity through asynchronous collaboration. Annie highlights the importance of empathy and values in supporting distributed work and how flexible practices emerged pre-pandemic. She reflects on her journey from law to workplace transformation, advocating for a culture that embraces change, driven by data and technological advancements.

Daan van Rossum is Founder and CEO of FlexOS where they are building a 21st Century work experience that enables people to learn, grow, connect, and thrive at work. He also hosts and runs the “Lead with AI” podcast, course, and community. Daan shares his tech-driven early education and jobs that underpin his emphasis on AI and integrating AI teammates and advisors effectively. He explains his proactive career steps working internationally, developing cultural understanding and tapping into ‘What If’ creative energy to achieve more fulfilling work experiences. Daan describes his learning journey and how we can all intentionally engage in meaningful work and achieve greater happiness.     TAKEAWAYS   [02:28] At 15 years old, Daan decides he prefers working to being at school.   [03:17] Daan persuades his parents and the government and gets an exception to leave school.   [04:22] Daan begins his career at an ISP help desk then an early online food delivery business.   [05:59] After producing a family ‘newspaper’, Daan’s online help page gets attention and lands him a digital media job.   [09:13] The transition to Ogilvy is motivated by a desire to land a ‘real job’!   [09:54] After moving to New York, Daan wins an internal talent competition asking ‘What If?’   [12:36] Daan makes proactive internal moves at Ogilvy to Chicago, then Singapore.   [14:00] Using his strategist skills, Daan transitions internationally learning about local cultures.   [15:15] Daan is entranced by Vietnam’s young society and optimistic, high energy.   [16:20] How Singapore developed fast integrating behavioral psychology nudges.   [16:53] Daan moves to Vietnam and discovers the two-world experiences of young employees.   [19:17] Co-founding a venture, Daan focuses on workplace happiness, fulfillment, and wellbeing through storytelling and courses.   [22:13] Daan studies wide-ranging topics relating to happiness, psychology, leadership, and more.   [23:13] The happiness-related content business is not viable in a developing market.   [23:55] The monetizable model integrating well-being content into coworking spaces.   [25:54] Key learnings about happiness to incorporate into DreamPlex's workplace offerings.   [31:16] Ensuring services align with what Gen Zers want in Vietnam.   [33:00] A 4-month pandemic lockdown in Vietnam affects Dream Plex and how they got through it.   [34:55] The challenges of hybrid working models in Vietnam compared to Singapore which was highly-digitized before 2020.   [38:35] Transitioning from agricultural to professional work settings and trust issues at work.   [42:10] The opportunity to align personal goals with organizational needs.   [43:15] The importance of intentionality in career and life decisions, especially now.   [45:30] Creating happier, productive workplaces by listening to employees and optimizing workflows.   [48:15] Self-awareness surfaces personal work preferences allowing alignment with job roles.   [52:20] Understanding how companies work reduces misunderstandings and misplaced entitlements.   [53:45] Optimizing time at work and using AI to not waste valuable hours.   [55:40] AI as your senior advisor, especially when no one else is around!   [56:15] How/what kids are learning differently now and AI’s potential future role/integration.   [58:12] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: To improve work experiences, go back to the core. What you are doing and why. Are you doing it well? Do you believe what you are doing is meaningful? Practically, empathize and listen to your team members discovering the joy and toil in their workflows to map out and solve issues together.       RESOURCES   Daan van Rossum on LinkedIn FlexOS.work Lead with AI podcast, course, and community Laurie Santos Martin Seligman books     QUOTES "Could we ask 'What If' more? Instead of trying to focus on all these new channels trying to be innovative. Could we make this even better? So it was really more about the core of creativity and about curiosity." "You have to find your happiness in the here and now. If you slow down and look around, all your conditions for happiness are already here…Happiness is very makeable. It's not something that either happens to you or you're born with it. It's something you determine almost 100% yourself." "If two years from today someone makes a movie about your life, what would it be called? What would it be about? What would they showcase as your journey and what you've achieved?" "There’s this concept called the hedonic treadmill... once you have [achieved a goal], there may be a temporary moment where you feel good. But the deeper sense of happiness has to come from something bigger." "See AI as a coworker that first and foremost can take over all the parts of your job that you don't like doing and are not getting you closer to your goal." "AI can start to be a senior advisor. It can be someone that co-creates with you, especially in those moments where you're on your own and need guidance or a second opinion."  

Corinne Murray is Chief Strategist and Founder of Agate, an organizational transformation and workplace strategy consultancy. Corinne brings her formative experiences in commercial real estate, workplace strategy, and pre-pandemic implementations of remote and hybrid work models. She shares the benefits of empathizing with employees’ and executives’ different work experiences and explains how experiences inform culture. Corinne advocates for incremental, measurable steps to reduce workplace friction, improve performance, shift mindsets, and build momentum to effect change.     TAKEAWAYS   [02:18] Corinne studies religious studies and philosophy learning about different cultures.   [03:31] Leaving college at the end of the Great Recession, Corinne starts in real estate.   [03:53] Corinne focuses on market research and repositioning older buildings at CBRE.   [05:22] It’s déjà vu with real estate trends!   [05:34] Moving to American Express, Corinne shifts to workplace strategy and culture change.   [06:37] Amex facilitates workplace flexibility and remote working in 2013-2014.   [08:14] Corinne help employees transition to remote work addressing home setup challenges.   [10:22] The Blue Work program aims to create consistent brand experiences in all Amex offices.   [12:09] Post 2008, real estate strategy focuses on efficiency and densification.   [13:32] Workplace design and environments are adapted to different teams’ needs.   [14:10] Desk booking capabilities are implemented to reduce friction and improve flexibility.   [15:12] Reinstituting Blue Work with user-friendly changes and active listening.   [16:16] Desk booking is eliminated having caused—rather than eliminated—friction.   [17:39] Neighborhood seating naturally supports teams and flexible desk usage.   [19:15] Corinne join Gensler to explore the external advisory role.   [20:48] How UX/UI is applicable to workplace strategy.   [21:31] Joining WeWork, Corinne helps prepare the company for the Future of Work.   [24:16] The holistic employee experience extends beyond the physical space.   [25:07] The importance of good employee experiences to increase productivity.   [26:32] Frameworks for improving workplace environments through UX principles.   [28:23] Ensured basic workplace needs are met to reduce mental load and enhance productivity.   [29:58] Joining RXR Realty in February 2020, the pandemic impacts Corinne’s intended work.   [31:42] How Activity-Based Working supports different work activities.   [33:06] Corinne’s understanding of city dynamics changes her view of Central Business Districts’ viability.   [36:24] How reduced foot traffic affects commercial real estate.   [38:02] Corinne recognizes the shift in employee sentiments and work-life balance priorities.   [41:55] Executives different work experiences lead to their challenges with hybrid models.   [45:06] Millennials are driving change because of where they are in their careers and need for balance.   [52:02] Executive resistance to hybrid work can be reduced emphasizing data and gradual change.   [55:36] Corinne encourages an incremental approach to effect organizational change.   [56:20] “Hybrid work is broken” — what does Corinne mean by that?   [58:03] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Consider the dynamics of hybrid work and why it happens rather than just where it happens. Sequence and shuffle the puzzle pieces to figure out what needs to be decided first.     RESOURCES   Corinne Murray on LinkedIn Corinne’s company Agate’s website   QUOTES (edited)   "We can't decide what a culture is. We can decide what an experience is and what that collective experience amounts to is the culture."   "We are getting stuck focusing on where things happen, not why they happen, or how they can be done better."   "Executives lived experience is so radically different than everyone else in their organization, and yet they're the ones who are dictating how everyone else should be behaving."   "If we just assume that everyone wants to be productive, even if everyone's definition of it is different, how do we get stuff out of the way so people can do more of it."   "Hybrid is broken....Our application of it is what's broken. And why it's broken is because we have been almost exclusively focused on where hybrid happens rather than what are the dynamics of hybrid work."

Tim Oldman is the CEO of Leesman and Founder of the Leesman Index - the world leader in measuring and analyzing the experiences of employees in their places of work. Tim is an expert in user experience of the built environment. He explains why we need to be considering whether work environments are supporting employees’ activities, needs, and satisfaction. Tim brings his wealth of knowledge to explore and reveal how workplaces—wherever people work—are tools for organizational performance and how we can measure that.      TAKEAWAYS   [02:25] Having always enjoyed building things, Tim studies interior design at college.   [02:51 Tim opts for a shorter course in interior design admitting he is impatient!   [03:22] Tim would love to study at university now with rapid prototyping and other advances.   [04:00] Encouraged by his uncle and tutor, Tim secures his first design job at 16.   [05:36] Tim first works in transport design, realizing the impact of design on bus stations and airports.   [07:06] The attention and detailed science in every aspect of airport design, including signage legibility.   [08:08] Tim wants to apply more and more rigor and science as his career develops.   [09:33] Tim discovers retail design is more numerically driven that he had understood earlier.   [11:27] The shift in retail emphasizing the shopper's brand experience.   [13:26] Tim's time at Vitra exposes him to extraordinary design history and expertise.   [14:20] It was a mind-boggling experience to work on the campus every day for five years!   [15:10] The user-centric design of a new distribution center makes Tim energized and very curious.   [17:22] Using transport examples to illustrate the importance of employee-centric office design.   [18:48] Developing the Leesman Index, Tim encounters naysayers to begin with.   [19:46] Initially provocative, “space is a tool in organizational performance” sticks.   [20:59] How space is a tool in organizational performance.   [21:48] Contrary to expectations, the design community initially resists the Leesman Index.   [23:07] A friend’s referral leads to the first successful deployment of the Index.   [23:36] The index reveals engineers’ preference for compressed, energetic workspaces.   [24:41] The facilities management industry becomes a key user.   [25:02] Executive leadership teams appreciate data-driven insights.   [26:43] Tim describes the Index's methodology and its impact on workplace design.   [27:50] The Leesman index measures employee activities and their satisfaction with workplace features.   [29:41] ‘Sentiment Superdrivers’ are crucial to accommodate to achieve workplace satisfaction.   [32:54] The importance of supporting individual focused work.   [33:29] The pandemic highlights the inadequacies of traditional office designs.   [35:52] Many organizations are now seeking to improve their offices to better support employee needs.   [36:44] The rise of video conferencing underscores the need for better acoustic and visual privacy.   [38:12] Organizations increasingly seek to create offices that employees genuinely want to visit.   [39:45] Tim’s new venture aims to help clients improve both remote and office-based work environments.   [42:31] Commute satisfaction correlates with the quality of the office environment.   [45:28] The shift towards higher-quality, more amenity-rich office spaces.   [47:40] Standard Chartered Bank exemplifies successful office space reduction while enhancing quality.   [49:24] Tim advocates for clearly articulating the purpose of office spaces.   [52:15] How Facilities Management can create more technologically advanced, smarter buildings.   [54:09] IMMEDIATE ACTION TIP: Use evidence and be real, conversational, human. Find out what impacts the human experience as the human dynamic is motivational guidance. Live a day in the life of a frontline employee, experience it yourself.     RESOURCES   Tim Oldman on LinkedIn Leesman’s website     QUOTES   "Whether it's an exhibition stand that you're building that's only up for five days, or it's a retail environment, or it's a bus station, or as we now are looking at the impact of office design on the organizational performance of the companies that we're working with.”   "I would leave work in a day feeling more energized than I arrived there in the morning. And I wanted to know why, fundamentally, I couldn't work it out. And that was really where the ideas behind Leesman and the idea of a measurement protocol started to seep through."   “It's all economics driven. Whether it's an exhibition stand that you're building that's only up for five days, or it's a retail environment, or it's a bus station, or as we now are looking at the impact of office design on the organizational performance.”   "Having thought about your day at work in the way that you have, can you tell us what you think about the following things in relation to your workplace? So, does it enable you to work productively? Are you proud of it? Do you enjoy it? Do you think it supports your organization's environmental sustainability standpoint?”    I think the bigger a workplace gets, the harder it is to satisfy everybody, because the more people are in it, the more variability there is in the work that they do and their personalities and their size and their demeanor and all the other things that make us different than individual human beings."