The Resilient Recruiter

What if you could swap 100 cold calls a day for content that reaches thousands?That’s exactly what award-winning recruiter Justis Pederson did. In this episode, Justis shares how going digital didn’t just scale his reach—it nearly doubled his revenue.Justis is the President & CEO of the Pederson Group of Companies in Winnipeg, which he has grown from $500K to $1.8M in revenue. His group includes recruitment, media, and real estate, with a recruitment focus on construction and engineering. He's also a member of the Pinnacle Society, an elite collective of top-performing recruiters in North America.Rather than hiring another recruiter, Justis made an unconventional move: he hired a full-time content and social media manager. This decision reshaped how they marketed, grew their brand, and attracted inbound business.🎯 Episode Highlights:[02:57] From door-to-door sales to top recruiter in construction[11:33] Traits that separate average recruiters from great ones[13:19] Shifting from cold calls to digital marketing[26:10] The ROI of hiring a full-time marketing person[31:22] The 3 pillars of strong content: writing, video, design[34:55] How to hire a marketing pro—and what to expect[37:39] Posting content consistently with simple systems[43:18] Building a brand without a big budget[47:30] Transitioning to a retained search model[51:38] Getting business without asking for business[53:02] Justis shares a personal story of resilienceWhy They Switched to Content-First MarketingCold calling limited their reach to 100 people a day. Content marketing allowed them to showcase their expertise to thousands. By posting regularly on LinkedIn, they moved from one-to-one calls to one-to-many digital influence.In 2022, Justis hired Cass—not as another recruiter, but as a dedicated content and marketing lead. They began producing short videos, graphic designs, and thought leadership posts tailored to their niche. The result? Inbound leads started flowing, and revenue nearly doubled in a year.The ROI—and Patience—of Hiring a Marketing Person“When I first hired Cass, we billed around $500K. A year later, that was nearly $1M,” says Justis. But he emphasizes: this wasn’t an overnight win. It took nearly two years of collaboration, trial, and learning to gain traction.He cautions listeners not to expect results in 30, 60, or even 90 days—but to commit to the long game.The Three Content PillarsWritingVideoGraphic DesignWriting forms the foundation of their messaging and underpins both video scripts and visuals. Their content strategy is simple but effective: post four pieces per week, focus on one or two channels, and don’t overthink production quality.“It doesn’t have to be a high-budget effort,” Justis explains. “You can start small and still get results.”About Justis PedersonJustis is an award-winning recruiter and CEO of the Pederson Group of Companies. He specializes in recruitment for the construction and engineering sectors, and complements his business with a media division focused on content and video strategy. He sits on two boards and is a member of the Pinnacle Society.People & Tools Mentioned:Pinnacle Society | Loomly | Monday.comConnect with Justis:LinkedIn | [Pederson Group Website]Connect with Mark Whitby:Free Strategy Call | LinkedIn | @RecruitmentCoach on InstagramIf you’ve been enjoying The Resilient Recruiter, please take two minutes to leave a review. It helps us reach more people and support more recruiters like you!

Brandon Glyck, CEO of Quantum Search Partners, leads a top-ranking recruiting firm known for its innovative approaches. He shares how relentless follow-ups and nurturing relationships can build a sustainable referral stream, even during economic downturns. Brandon reflects on adapting strategies during the 2008 recession and the recent tech downturn, emphasizing a shift towards diverse sectors. He also discusses the importance of maintaining authenticity in business and balancing tech tools with personal connections in recruitment.

After relocating from Dubai to the U.S. with two young children, Karolina Willis found herself having to rebuild her recruitment business from scratch. Facing overwhelming personal and professional challenges, she reached a breaking point—when walking away felt like the only option.But instead of giving up, Karolina doubled down. What followed was a period of six months of explosive growth.In this episode, Karolina shares the mindset shifts, business decisions, and key differentiators that helped her scale Intercare Recruitment into a thriving international healthcare staffing firm. From winning retained contracts to building a remote team and offering full immigration support, Karolina’s story is filled with practical insights and inspiration for recruiters who want to build something global, resilient, and values-led.🎯 Episode Highlights:[01:53] Karolina’s journey from Poland to the UK, Dubai, and the U.S.[07:27] The mindset shift that helped her bounce back after hitting a wall[10:16] Hosting live events to build a pipeline of quality candidates[13:39] Starting over solo—and the early challenges of launching a firm[28:02] Relocating to Florida and facing a pivotal breaking point[37:23] Her U.S. go-to-market strategy and how she built credibility fast[40:34] What helped her win retained business in a competitive market[46:30] Managing and growing a fully remote, international team[51:59] How she identifies and mentors recruiter talent[57:35] What she’d do differently if starting all over againScaling Across Borders with Heart and StrategyKarolina built Intercare Recruitment to specialize in placing top-tier talent in nursing, allied health, and executive healthcare roles. What sets her apart is a blend of deep industry knowledge, personal investment, and standout service.She shares the importance of:Hiring former nurses as recruiters to ensure empathy and insightOffering full immigration support for international candidatesStaying hyper-focused on relationship-building, not just transactionsFrom Survival Mode to Sustainable GrowthKarolina opens up about the emotional toll of moving countries, raising kids, and starting a business from the ground up. But what kept her going was her purpose and a deep belief in service-driven recruiting. Within months of recommitting to the business, she began to see results—securing retained contracts, expanding into new regions, and building a global team.Her story is a masterclass in:Personal resilienceStrategic positioningBuilding credibility in a new marketLeading with empathy and authenticity👤 About Karolina WillisKarolina is the CEO and Founder of Intercare Recruitment, with 19 years of experience in global healthcare recruiting. She launched Intercare in 2011 and has placed top healthcare professionals across the UK, Middle East, and U.S. She’s known for her hands-on leadership, mentorship, and ability to scale teams across borders.She holds a Bachelor’s in Human Resources Management, is PHR-certified, and is based in Greenville, South Carolina, where she’s also a proud mom to two daughters.🔗 Connect with Karolina:LinkedIn: Karolina WillisWebsite: Intercare Recruitment🎙️ Connect with Mark Whitby:LinkedIn: Mark WhitbyInstagram: @RecruitmentCoachTwitter: @MarkWhitbyFacebook: Mark Whitby🎁 Free Resource:Book your FREE 30-minute strategy call👍 Enjoying the show?Leave a review to help more recruiters discover The Resilient Recruiter.

Focus is a superpower every recruiter needs, especially in a harsh market with tough competition. How do you keep yourself organized and focused despite multiple expectations that you have to deliver to your clients, candidates, and if you are a business owner, to your team?Jenny shares the Jenny Diaz Day Plan and how it helps her stay organized and focused every day. She also shares how basic daily tasks help her business navigate this tough market while navigating growth and expansion.Jenny Diaz entered recruiting in 2015. In late 2021, she, Ryan, and another former colleague, James, founded Apex Recruitment Group, a firm that specializes in construction management recruitment throughout DC, Virginia, and the Carolinas. While Jenny has worked in various industries, she has focused on construction management for the last several years. Through her recruitment career, Jenny has had the opportunity to participate in relevant non-profits that make the tough days in recruitment easier. She is currently the Vice President of one such organization, Career Confidence.Episode Outline and Highlights[03:31] How Jenny got into recruiting from studying Hebrew, traveling, car washing, and working on a dude ranch.[12:29] Discussion on “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.”[17:25] Launching Apex Recruitment Group and overcoming initial hurdles.[23:19] The added value of meeting people in person.[27:39] What is it like being married to your business partner?[30:09] Keys to getting her first million.[33:10] Going through challenges and things they would have done differently.[43:34] Jenny shares their growth plans.[48:03] Zooming in on Apex’s business culture.[54:37] Business development and client acquisition in a tough market.Jenny’s Day Planning ProcessFocus is the super power that recruiters need for sure. Successful business owners and recruiters have a daily hack on how to organize their to do’s and make the most of their days. Jenny is no different, and she gladly shared the “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.” “So I have this Microsoft Word doc… I print it out, I take a pencil because the day will change, and I write down whatever's on my Microsoft calendar. I have a list of follow-ups that I'm people I'm going to follow up with. That's usually like five to 30 people depending. I have my three main goals, I have my two jobs. I'm going to work that day if I get it. I have things I'm grateful for, that I've learned.”To summarize her methodology, here are the takeaways:Jenny meticulously plans each day using a printed Microsoft Word document with hourly blocksShe writes her plan in pencil to allow for adjustments throughout the dayHer day plan includes follow-ups, main goals, jobs to work, things she's grateful for, and long-term goalsWriting plans physically rather than digitally creates a stronger commitmentThe planning process helps combat distractions and provides focusJenny maintains this day-planning routine for approximately 90% of her workdaysDo you have a similar approach to being focused and organized?Going Through Setbacks and Valuable Lessons LearnedLike all business owners, Jenny and his team have had a few setbacks that can be considered teachable moments. 2023 was a challenging year for them as they expanded too quickly into new geographies while the market was getting softer. They also hired four additional people, which created financial pressure and eventually forced them to scale back after the overexpansion.Jenny shared critical learnings and adjustments they had to take to avoid reoccurrence. They learned the importance of tracking KPIs over different time periods (weekly, monthly, quarterly).“So one thing I have done this year, just with the team member I'm working with, and he probably hates it, but I'm telling him, listen, every week you're going to fill out this form and you know it's more than just KPIs.”They also used color-coding systems to track performance patterns.“This is what we're doing. Are they green, yellow, or red? I actually have them. I have them, Mark, green, yellow, or red? And you know, if last week was all red, but you're trailing six months are green. Like, let's get back at it if it's all red for six months. Well, this is a story, right?”Lastly, Jenny appreciates how partnership was crucial during tough times as partners talked each other ‘off the ledge’.“But I think the partnership was really helpful in that because we could look around and say, no, get back. Like, come back. Like, we've all been there. You're gonna get over it. You're gonna have a great month soon. I don't know when it is, but like just get back at it.”Business Development and Client Acquisition Tactics in a Tough MarketI also enjoyed the part of our interview where Jenny emphasized the importance of getting back to the basics on business development in a tough market.“But it's, it's the basics. I think we are still big on cold calls. We do business development calls that are cold. We try to do a little bit. I try to do a little bit on LinkedIn or a lot, as much as I can.”Their business development tactics include:Cold calls - the team targets 50 meaningful connections per week.LinkedIn EngagementDatabase management.Jenny Diaz Bio and Contact InfoJenny has partnered with firms of all sizes to successfully recruit entry-level professionals to C-level executives. Since 2017, she has focused on engaging construction management talent in the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast. She stumbled into recruitment through seemingly unrelated experiences that began with working and studying in Russia and Israel and then ended on a dude ranch outside of Yellowstone. She has learned that the people you meet along the way are anything but chance encounters.Jenny on LinkedInApex Recruitment Group website linkPeople and Resources MentionedGuerrilla Marketing for Job Hunters 3.0 by David PerryConnect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy callMark on LinkedIn, Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitbyMark on FacebookMark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoachSubscribe to The Resilient RecruiterIf you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

What separates top billers from everyone else in recruitment?In this episode, DG Recruit co-founders Dandan Zhu and Grace Marlin reveal the strategies they’ve seen consistently drive high performance across the industry. Their rec-to-rec agency gives them unique insight into what elite recruiters do differently—and how you can replicate it.Dandan and Grace share three core themes that make or break recruiters today:Maintaining a deep, diverse client pipeline beyond a few accountsMaking strategic relationship investments with long-term ROIPerfecting your MPC outreach to grab hiring managers' attention fastWith Dandan’s experience as a top-producing recruiter who achieved financial independence by 28 and Grace’s 6.5 years helping launch and elevate recruitment careers, this episode is packed with field-tested insights for scaling your billings and building long-term success in agency recruitment.🎯 Episode Highlights:[01:28] How Dandan and Grace began working together[04:00] Market trends in the recruitment space[06:40] What top billers do consistently[15:06] Why “thinking big” leads to big returns[20:37] The “Golden Loop” approach to BD and retention[27:26] Blueprint for an effective MPC strategy[33:30] Adapting to changing markets and technology[37:22] Learning more through DG Recruit’s platformsWhy Top Billers Never Stop Building Client PipelinesMany recruiters became complacent with just a few accounts. But when the market shifted, they were left scrambling. Top billers consistently build relationships using webinars, panels, and niche content.Dandan emphasizes, “All the playbook is there—but who’s actually running the plays?” Grace adds that success often comes from “who’s willing to go one or two steps deeper” and invest months into client relationships before seeing ROI.The ROI of Relationship-Driven BDFrom rooftop events to curated gatherings like pottery painting, Grace and Dandan invest in creative, niche-specific client events. These efforts may take years to pay off, but they create stronger trust, brand awareness, and higher placement odds.Grace points out how few recruiters take the time to do even a couple of things differently—and that’s the opportunity. This relationship-first approach results in client loyalty and referrals that competitors miss.MPC Strategy: Sell Your Talent, Not Your AgencyToo many recruiters waste the first few seconds of outreach on introductions. Dandan’s advice? Lead with your candidate. Immediately.Hiring managers don’t care about your agency—they care about solving urgent problems. Skip the small talk, craft a compelling candidate profile, and confidently deliver value. That’s how top recruiters cut through the noise.👤 About Dandan ZhuDandan is the Founder of DG Recruit, a top rec-to-rec firm, and the Agency Recruitment Academy. She achieved financial independence by 28 and now helps senior producers and leaders scale their success. She’s also the author of Agency Recruitment 101 and host of the DG Recruit Podcast.🔗 Connect with Dandan:LinkedIn | Instagram | Twitter: @dandanzhudg👤 About Grace MarlinGrace is Co-Founder of DG Recruit and Recruiter Prep. She’s helped shape the careers of top-performing agency recruiters and is passionate about the autonomy and upside of agency life. She co-created an intro course to help new recruiters break in successfully.🔗 Connect with Grace:LinkedIn | DG Recruit website | DG Recruit Podcast | Facebook | YouTube📚 Mentioned in This Episode:Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion – Robert Cialdini🎙️ Connect with Mark Whitby:Free Strategy Call | LinkedIn | @RecruitmentCoach on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter: @MarkWhitby

In this engaging conversation, Leo Hewett, Founder of Core3, shares his inspiring journey of building an ethical recruitment firm focused on finance and accounting. He discusses the influence of his mother in shaping his commitment to community impact. Leo reveals how purpose-driven initiatives attract top talent and foster team dynamics. He also offers insights on nurturing past professional relationships and the importance of a personal brand on LinkedIn. The discussion highlights challenges faced during growth and strategies to overcome them while maintaining a strong company culture.

What if your next training session became the highlight of your recruiters' week rather than just another calendar obligation? We explore how innovative recruitment leaders transform traditional onboarding into engaging experiences that drive performance and retention. In this episode, a tenured recruiter and recruitment business owner shares his experience in training hundreds of recruiters in this career. For David, “training and developing people is fun!” David Bloxham is the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David is passionate about connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward.  In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has expanded globally with a team of 100 consultants and 7 offices including London, Reading, Amsterdam, Berlin, Dublin, Orlando and Philadelphia.   Episode Outline and Highlights [02:12] How did David get started in recruiting? [04:30] Has productivity in recruitment remaining relatively constant over time? [13:08] Effective and efficient team structure to increase productivity. [20:23] Hiring and developing hundreds of people over the years, what key training elements David wishes to share? [36:05] David and his team use tools and technology for reports and gamifying objectives. [40:27] Core focus of recruiters despite technological advances: telephone first and networking. [49:31] Discussion on David’s Management Buyout (MBO) experience and learnings. [56:53] Should your recruitment firm get an investment from a Private Equity?   Training and Developing People is Fun!   David started in the recruiting industry in 1996, and both of us agree that training back then was almost as simple as “here is a phonebook, and a phone, start calling.” We both understand the value of effective training as a key ingredient to successful recruiting results.    Having hired and developed hundreds of recruiters over the years, what is David’s approach to training, especially in this age where technology can overwhelm the human factor of a new recruiter? For David, it is about going back to basics and focusing on what a recruiter really does. Phone first, and building a network. He utilizes existing technology and tech stack, especially when monitoring and gamifying performance as part of training and development. Most importantly, his mindset says a lot about his success, “Training and developing people is fun!”   Below are some of the takeaways he shared on this topic:   Passion for Teaching – He genuinely enjoys training people, seeing them "get it," and watching their progress. His enthusiasm makes training engaging and impactful. Gamification and Fun—He introduces friendly competitions, small challenges (like mentioning random topics in calls), and a team environment that keeps training lively and engaging. Hands-On Learning – He believes in learning by doing, allowing trainees to make calls early, experience rejection, and develop resilience. Focus on Fundamentals – Despite industry changes, he emphasizes that the core of recruitment remains the same: connecting clients and candidates. Creating a Supportive Environment – He fosters a collaborative setting where trainees can share wins, struggles, and experiences. Emphasizing Resilience – He prepares recruiters for the challenges of the job, especially handling rejection and navigating modern recruitment complexities. Adapting Training to Modern Challenges – He acknowledges changes in recruitment (e.g., difficulty reaching candidates, compliance hurdles) and tailors training to address these new realities.   What Does a Recruiter Do? Despite technological advances in AI, David strongly believes that focusing on the human factor by understanding what a recruiter does is still the key success factor in this field. He believes that two things are essential: Telephone First Building a Network   Regardless of what AI or other tools can do to improve your recruitment process, it is still a recruiter’s human factor of connecting with candidates and clients that drives the decision of whether you will win the business or not. As he puts it,  “And, and that's really where I kind of come to with, with what does a recruiter do? What a recruiter does is it has the human interaction, the human touch, right? And if we can really get that into the heads of recruiters, this is where your value is. This is what you do, right? You meet people, you talk to people, you network, you find out things.”   Indeed, recruiters who rely too much on automation risk becoming replaceable. But those who master the human side of the business—building relationships, influencing decisions, and adding personal value—will always be in demand.   Learnings from an MBO (Management Buyout) As one of the first employees at GCS, David was deeply invested in the company’s growth. When it reached an eight-figure valuation, the decision was made to exit certain owners and transition leadership. Since David didn’t have the capital to buy out the founder, they sought backing from nGAGE, an investment company that specializes in recruitment businesses. The process involved intense due diligence, financial scrutiny, and planning to make GCS an attractive investment.   David's learnings also apply to recruitment business owners who plan to exit and sell their business through acquisition. You may be interested in the following topics that David elaborated on:   Know Your Numbers Focus on Profitability & Efficiency Investors Want Focus & Justification Culture & Brand Matter The Shift from Employee to Shareholder   David Bloxham Bio and Contact Info   David Bloxham is a seasoned recruitment professional and the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David has a passion for connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward. In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has grown significantly on a global scale, helping clients to "Employ the Future to Create it." David's expertise in the recruitment industry and his dedication to fostering strong client relationships have made him a respected figure in the field.   David on LinkedIn GCS Tech Talent website link GCS Connect Leaders podcast nGAGE talent website link   People and Resources Mentioned   LinkedIn Recruiter Lusha Crunchbase Daxtra PowerBI   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter   If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  

Melanie De Beer, Director of Full Circle Selection, has over 25 years of experience in recruitment and specializes in finance and engineering. She shares her transformative journey from top recruiter to strategic leader, highlighting the crucial mindset shift needed to scale her business. The discussion focuses on effective delegation, increasing pricing for quality, and building a self-sustaining team. Melanie emphasizes the importance of leadership, continuous improvement in recruitment practices, and empowering others to foster growth and success.

Would you be apprehensive about adding a recruitment bot in your hiring process at the risk of losing the ‘human’ factor? Our special guest, Betsy Robinson, explains how they utilize AI trends and other tech stacks to enhance their client and candidate experience.   Betsy Robinson is the Founder & CEO of Tier4 Group, a woman-owned, diversity-certified talent acquisition firm headquartered in Atlanta.    The company specializes in connecting exceptional talent with top-tier employers for technology and executive roles, combining advanced recruitment automation with a personalized approach.    Under her leadership, Tier4 Group has achieved remarkable recognition, including six consecutive years on the Inc. 5000 list of fastest-growing companies (2019-2024) and five appearances on the Atlanta Pacesetters list.   Episode Outline and Highlights   [03:03] Recruiting out of college - beginning of Betsy’s 20-year recruitment journey. [07:05] How she ventured out alone - discussing high points and challenges. [18:31] Fostering a culture of feedback and how it elevates the quality of output. [24:19] Incorporating recruitment automation, technology, and AI. [33:35] Would you include a digital recruiter in hiring your process? [41:15] Betsy reveals their tech stack and AI trends. [47:28] The value of using note-taking AI tools. [51:52] Creating a culture of strong team collaboration.   Incorporating a Digital Recruiter in the Hiring Process   Would you consider incorporating a recruitment ‘bot’ in your hiring process? A lot of recruitment business owners might be apprehensive about doing so, as it poses the risk of diminishing the ‘human touch’ in the process.    On the other hand, Betsy's team is leveraging a "digital employee," specifically a digital recruiter, to enhance their hiring process. This AI-powered recruiter can call and chat with candidates, helping to screen large volumes of applicants more efficiently while maintaining a personalized experience. Unlike traditional chatbots or automated emails, this digital recruiter has a live voice and engages in real conversations, making it feel more human-like.   Some of the outlined advantages of this investment include:   Speed & Efficiency – The digital recruiter can process large volumes of candidates quickly, helping the team sift through hundreds of applicants without delays. Candidate Engagement – One of the biggest complaints in recruitment is ghosting—candidates never hearing back from employers. A digital recruiter ensures consistent communication, so candidates stay informed. 24/7 Availability – Unlike human recruiters who work business hours, the digital employee can operate around the clock, allowing candidates to engage at their convenience—whether during a lunch break or late at night.   Tech Stack and AI Trends   Betsy and I also talked about the tech stacks they are using and the recent trends in technology that recruiters can use to either improve and simplify their processes, improve candidate and client engagement, and manage performance and KPIs for their employees.   We have listed below some tools that you may already be familiar with or others you might consider exploring:    Applicant Tracking & CRM Systems Loxo – Legacy ATS/CRM system  Tracker – New ATS & CRM for front/middle office operations with better API integrations AI-Powered Communication Tools CloudCall – AI-driven text and voice communication for candidate and client interactions. Digital Recruiters (AI Recruiters) – AI-powered virtual recruiters that conduct initial screenings via calls and chats. Note-Takers & Meeting Assistants Otter.ai – AI-powered transcription and meeting summarization. Fathom – AI note-taking with advanced meeting insights. Fireflies – AI transcription, summarization, and team collaboration. Copilot (Microsoft) – AI assistant for Teams meetings and documentation. Quill – AI-driven note-taking tool specifically for recruiters. Gong – AI-powered call analysis and coaching for sales and recruiter conversations. AI-Driven Data Management & Automation VMS Integrations – Automates job order creation and updates within the ATS. AI-Powered Contact Management – Automatically updates candidate and client contact information. AI for Remote Team Collaboration & Coaching AI Call Coaching (via GPT or Gong) – Analyzes recruiter and sales calls for performance improvement. Remarkable (Digital Notepad) – Converts handwritten notes to digital format for easy CRM integration.   These tools collectively enhance efficiency, automation, and candidate engagement in recruitment businesses.   Creating a Culture of Strong Team Collaboration   Despite being tech-heavy, Betsy and her team still invest in ensuring that their connection and culture as a team is as collaborative as can be. With a team of 30, mostly working remotely, seamless collaboration and teamwork are essential.   This is how she summarizes their collaboration:  “We, I will say, first of all, we welcome all ideas. It doesn't matter if you are someone who's been on our team for one week or someone who's been on our team for one year or you've been our first employee who's been here 10 years. Everybody brings unique at different perspective perspectives. And I would say we are much more collaborative in our decision-making.”   She also added the value of transparency: “We also communicate to the best of our ability the why behind a lot of our decisions that we're making.”   Lastly, she emphasized the value of accountability: “So we're also working on a culture of, you know, pure accountability.”   The key factors are critical in Betsy’s successful culture-building. Do you have similar values in terms of your business culture?   Betsy Robinson Bio and Contact Info   Betsy Robinson is the Founder & CEO of Tier4 Group. Headquartered in Atlanta, Tier4 Group is a woman-owned and diversity-certified talent acquisition firm specializing in connecting exceptional talent with top-tier employers seeking to fill technology and executive roles. By combining advanced recruitment automation with a personalized approach, Tier4 strives to identify the best fit for both the customer and the candidate.   Tier4 Group has been recognized for six consecutive years (2019-2024) as one of the fastest-growing companies in the nation on the prestigious Inc. 5000 list, as well as being named for a 5th time in 2024 to the Atlanta Pacesetters list of the fastest growing privately-held companies in GA. Additionally, the company is a four-time Bulldog 100 Honoree. The Bulldog 100 recognizes the 100 fastest-growing businesses owned or operated by UGA Alumni.    Betsy was named LGBTQ Businessperson of the Year in Georgia in 2023 and recognized to the inaugural Inc Magazine 30 Under 30-ish list in 2023. She was also named to the Atlanta Business Chronicle’s 40 Under 40 Class of 2019. Betsy holds a B.B.A. from the University of Georgia’s Terry College of Business. She is an active volunteer with Women in Technology (WIT), currently serving on the Board of Directors. Betsy has also served on the Board of Directors for the Technology Association of Georgia’s Diversity & Inclusion Society, as well as the Business Advisory Board for ITT Technical Institute.    Outside of work, Betsy is active in outreach within the community as a volunteer supporting several non-profits. Her most important jobs are as a wife and mom. On weekends, you can find her cheering on her son on the soccer field, boating on the lake, or cheering loudly in the stands for the Atlanta sports team as well as the Georgia Bulldogs.   Betsy on LinkedIn Tier4 Group website link Retained Executive Search (a division of Tier4) website link WIT (Women in Technology) website link   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn,  Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  

A 25-year recruiting veteran! Our special guest, Jeff Cox, shares his journey and insights on how he made two transitions to up his recruitment game: From placing junior to senior roles and switching from contingent to retainer model.   These shifts can be challenging, and so it takes the right mindset and preparation for your to have the power to transition. Jeff shared how he did it!   Jeff specializes in assisting biotech and pharmaceutical companies in building transformative leadership teams.    As a member of the prestigious Pinnacle Society, Jeff is one of the top-producing recruiters in the country. But he believes success in this industry is less about the money and more about the people we impact and the life-changing projects we advance.   Episode Outline and Highlights   [02:50] How did Jeff end up in the recruiting industry after aspiring to become an actor? [06:52] Acting as Jeff’s cornerstone in his recruitment approach. [10:42] Success factors contributing to consistent improvement when starting your desk. [18:34] Why being nervous all the time is not necessarily a bad thing. [20:11] Jeff shares his experience working with his father and siblings in the business. [24:48] Transition to placing senior directors, VPs, and C-level executives. [42:36] Insights on the current market and team dynamics and how it can be challenging for [retained searches. [48:34] Switching from contingent to retained search - the power of walking away. [54:35] Going back to the basics amid a big reset in 2025.   What Success Looked Like   What would Jeff consider a success factor in his success as a recruitment business owner? For him, it is no magic ingredient.   “It's just showing up every day and being, you know, you know, like my dad says. We used to say, “Dad, I don't know what to do.” You know, pick up the phone. That's what you do. “Dad, I don't have enough job orders.” Pick up the phone. If you work every day, it works out.”   Jeff emphasized the value of being consistent and showing up every day as a key factor in his longevity and success in the recruiting field. He also shared how his background as an actor helped him learn a lot about being human - which is a key ingredient when building relationships with clients and candidates.    “I mean, I think that's the foundation, of why I'm a good recruiter. Because, you know, the most important thing to do as an actor is to listen. To listen and to live in the moment, you know, not, not to let things get ahead of yourself… I guess also the ability, you know, when you play a lot of different characters, you have to be able to jump into other people's skin. You have to be able to understand.”   On top of the above, he also had the foundation of working in his father’s recruitment firm. This led him to eventually build his desk and the rest is history. Transitioning to Place Executive Senior Roles   Jeff initially worked in lower-level positions such as associates and clinical chemists. When he started his firm, he made two key decisions that positively impacted his revenue.   Making a strategic decision to focus on higher-level positions such as directors, VPs, and C-level executives. Moving from Contingency to Retained search model.   The first item above is not an easy transition. Jeff decided to no longer accept managerial placements but rather focus on executive-level positions. Here are the two takeaways:    Making a Conscious, Strategic Shift – He decided to position himself exclusively for senior director-level and above roles. This meant actively telling the market, "No, I don't work at that level; I only recruit senior executives." By consistently reinforcing this message, he established himself as a specialist in executive recruitment.   Leveraging Long-Term Relationships – Over time, the professionals he had placed in junior roles advanced in their careers, moving into managerial and director positions. He capitalized on these relationships, using his existing network to transition into higher-level placements.   He also had the same mindset when he switched from a contingent to a retained search model. He shared that for him to have the ability to make strong choices such as this decision to switch, he had to ensure that he kept his housekeeping in order. “I made a strategic choice to live within my means. And when I made. When I made these choices, I was like, okay, you've got enough. You've got enough Runway where you can do it.”   Why Going Back to the Basics is Essential in This Market   A key topic that resonates with me is how Jeff deals with the current market difficulty in the pharmaceutical and biotech industries.     “I think the pharmaceutical and biotech industry has had a rough year and there's this balancing act that I'm going through in my brain. Do I go back to contingency when times are tough? Like, like what do you know? What do I do?”    If you can relate to how Jeff felt, I am sure you will appreciate his strong sense of accountability and self-awareness.    “And I, and I have found that I'm not, I'm not doing my job as well as I should. So it's now for me it's a time to get back to the basics. And I think that's what 2025 is. It's getting back to doing the job properly, you know, and, and you know, and I fault myself because I should have known this, but sometimes you don't see it, but really like sitting here now, it's just getting back to the basics. So I'm excited and that's exciting to me. It's like the realization is I gotta go back to the basics. I gotta start hammering out the phone calls and it's exciting.”   Such an admirable mindset!    Jeff Cox Bio & Contact Info   With over 25 years of experience in pharmaceutical recruitment, Jeff has built a career connecting top talent with leading companies. The journey began in 1995 with a first placement made in just 16 days—a milestone that set the stage for decades of success.   Starting with roles such as Clinical Research Associates, Analytical Chemists, and Regulatory Affairs Associates, Jeff steadily progressed to placing Managers, Senior Managers, Associate Directors, and Directors. Today, the focus is on VP-level and executive placements, a natural evolution earned through years of dedication and expertise.   More than just a recruiter, Jeff is a builder—helping biotech and pharmaceutical companies strengthen their leadership teams with experienced professionals who have climbed the ranks step by step. At this level, recruitment goes beyond compensation; it’s about aligning the right people with the right projects to drive innovation and impact.   Jeff on LinkedIn CKR Associates website link Pinnacle Society website link   People and Resources Mentioned   Katherine Jerald on LinkedIn Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In, R.Fisher   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. 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