The Resilient Recruiter

What if you could swap 100 cold calls a day for content that reaches thousands? In this episode, Justis shares how going digital didn’t just scale his reach, it nearly doubled his revenue. Justis Pederson is an award-winning recruiter and the CEO of the Pederson Group of Companies in Winnipeg, which he has grown from $500K to $1.8M in revenue. His group of companies includes recruitment, media, and real estate. On the recruitment side, they specialize in construction & engineering. I’m excited to learn that Justis complements his recruiting business with his media business. They have turned video production into a differentiator, specifically leveraging video and digital marketing as a key differentiator. Justis serves on two boards and is a member of the Pinnacle Society, a collective of the top-performing recruiters in North America. Episode Outline and Highlights [02:57] How Justis got into recruiting - from door-to-door salesman to becoming a top recruiter in construction. [11:33] Justis’ insights on critical attributes that differentiate a great recruiter. [13:19] The story of how they shifted from mainly cold calling to primarily digital marketing. [26:10] The ROI of hiring an effective marketing person. [31:22] The three pillars of content. [34:55] The hiring process of a good marketing person. [37:39] Strategies and systems to start posting content. [43:18] Discussion on the hows and whys of building a brand. [47:30] Shifting to a retained business model. [51:38] How to get business ‘without asking for business’. [53:02] Justis shares his personal story of resilience. Shifting from Cold Calling to Digital Marketing If your primary source of leads is through cold-calling, would you consider shifting to digital marketing? Justis realized the benefits of doing so, as cold-calling usually limits him to reaching 100 people a day, but with digital content, he can demonstrate their subject matter expertise to thousands. “So we started posting content online. And instead of going from one to one cold calling, it's one to many: one to 1,000, one to 10,000, one to 20,000 plus people. So what you're doing is you're actually just demonstrating what your subject matter expertise is. Instead of on the phone to people that already know you, you're doing it online to a larger population of people that do not know you.” How did they transition from pure cold calling to digital marketing? When Justis first started at Hayes and later running his own recruitment business, it was all about cold calling. But like a lot of recruiters, he hit that point of burnout. You can only hear “no” so many times before you start asking, Is there a better way to do this? They began putting their expertise online, mainly on LinkedIn, aiming to reach not just dozens, but thousands. Then came the big move: hiring Cass in 2022 as their first team member, not another recruiter, but a full-time content and social media manager. Instead of hiring another 360 recruiter, Justis placed his bet on the potential of digital marketing. Eventually, it paid off. They started producing all kinds of content—videos, thought pieces, scroll-stopping visuals—all tailored to their niche in construction and real estate. And people started paying attention—not just candidates but clients, too. Inbound leads started rolling in. The ROI of Hiring an Effective Marketing Person Was there a return on investment from the step that Justis took? That is, focusing mainly on being top-of-mind via digital content? There was! “To quantify that, when I first hired Cass in our first year, we did about, I think it was about $500,000… And in our second year after hiring Cass, we did closer to a million. So, just simple numbers there. Like, we almost doubled our billings.” Justis, however, reminded us that hiring an effective marketing person is not an instant result-generating move. You also have to invest time, like what she did with Cass. He spent at least a year working with her, and it took almost two years to see actual results. “But it did take like a lot of time to get there. Mark, I don't want your listeners to think like, oh, you hire a marketing person and 30 days later you're going to be getting all these inbound leads, because that's not how it works. And a lot of people are wired to think, you know, 30, 60, 90-day return. But this was something that happened for two years. Not 30 or 60, 90 days. Like when I hired Cas, the idea was, okay, we'll give it a year and see how it does.” The Three Pillars of Content and How to Start For Justis, there are three pillars of a well-curated, quality content: Graphic Design Video Writing Justis elaborated on these three pillars and how they emphasized the importance of writing as the basis of videos and graphic designs. He also shared strategies on posting at least 4 pieces of content a week, and why spreading too thin on different social media platforms may not always work. He also shared that to start and build a brand, you don’t even need a high budget. Justis shared, “But I think what I would say is it doesn't have to be an extremely high-budget effort. Like you can do this with a low budget effort.” Justis Pederson Bio and Contact Info Justis is an award-winning recruiter as well as President & CEO of the Pederson Group of Companies. His group of companies includes recruitment, media, and real estate. The Pederson Group recruitment specializes in a very niche market - construction & engineering. Outside of running the day-to-day operations of the businesses, Justis sits on two boards and is a member of the Pinnacle Society. Justis on LinkedIn The Pederson Group of Companies website link People and Resources Mentioned Pinnacle Society Loomly Monday.com Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn, Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

Brandon Glyck, CEO of Quantum Search Partners, leads a top-ranking recruiting firm known for its innovative approaches. He shares how relentless follow-ups and nurturing relationships can build a sustainable referral stream, even during economic downturns. Brandon reflects on adapting strategies during the 2008 recession and the recent tech downturn, emphasizing a shift towards diverse sectors. He also discusses the importance of maintaining authenticity in business and balancing tech tools with personal connections in recruitment.

Karolina Willis shares her remarkable journey building Intercare Recruitment from a struggling startup to ta hriving healthcare staffing firm. After relocating from Dubai to the US, she faced rebuilding her business in an unfamiliar market while raising two young children.Despite reaching a breaking point where she nearly abandoned her entrepreneurial dreams, Karolina implemented strategies that fueled explosive growth in just six months. She reveals how she created unique differentiators that justified retained contracts - employing former nurses as recruiters, offering comprehensive immigration services, and maintaining relentless face-to-face business development even when facing multiple rejections.This episode offers practical insights for recruitment agency owners looking to scale their businesses through genuine market differentiation and strategic team building across multiple countries.Karolina is a seasoned recruitment professional with 19 years of experience in the healthcare recruitment industry. As a CEO and Founder at Intercare Recruitment, she specializes in matching top-tier healthcare professionals with leading medical institutions, ensuring that both clients and candidates find the perfect fit.Episode Outline and Highlights[01:53] From Poland, the UK, Dubai, and the US - Carolina’s recruitment journey.[07:27] The mindset that helped Karolina be successful in a short space of time.[10:16] How to generate candidates by organizing events.[13:39] The initial challenges of going solo and starting a recruitment business. [28:02] Relocating to Florida, relaunching their business, and overcoming a breaking point.[37:23] How Karolina approached the market differently in the US.[40:34] Key differentiators as a boutique company.[46:30] Strategies for growing her team.[51:59] Overcoming the recruiter paradox - how to identify potential members of your recruitment firm.[57:35] What would Karolina have done differently when looking back at her career?Overcoming a Breaking Point and the Challenges of Launching a Boutique FirmKarolina excelled quickly in her first recruitment role in the UK with the NHS, which became a solid foundation for her when she launched Intercare Recruitment in Dubai. Like many recruiters who aspire to build their business, she faced initial struggles and challenges along the way.Karolina faced significant challenges when launching her recruitment firm in Dubai. Although finding candidates was relatively easy due to her strong existing network, the complexities of navigating healthcare regulations and business development were major hurdles. Karolina and her husband had to secure clients from scratch. Their strategy involved relentless, in-person business development—visiting hospitals unannounced, persistently requesting meetings with HR directors and CEOs. Despite initial rejections, her research-driven approach, industry connections, and sheer determination eventually led to success, with her 13th hospital visit yielding their first major contract. However, cash flow management became another major struggle, as collecting payments from clients was a slow and challenging process. The legal system in the UAE made it difficult to enforce contracts, ultimately influencing her decision to explore opportunities outside the Middle East.When she moved to the US, the true breaking point came in 2022 when, after years of working for others, Karolina could no longer ignore her entrepreneurial drive. She had gained the necessary industry knowledge and confidence, but stepping away from the security of a full-time job was a daunting decision, especially as a mother of two young children with a mortgage to maintain. Despite the fear and financial pressure, she knew she had relaunched Intercare. With the unwavering support of her husband, she leaped, marking the start of Intercare’s second chapter in the U.S.Building Key Differentiators as a Boutique FirmI wanted to focus on Intercare Recruitment's unique approach to providing the best solutions for its clients. Their service offering is retained and involves recruiting nurses internationally. “So what I call ourselves, we are kind of boutique companies, small, quality-focused, concierge type agencies. We really go beyond with our services. We really get on side with our clients.Here are some of their differentiators:International Nurse Recruitment Expertise – They have an extensive referral-based network in the Philippines and partnerships with nursing schools, allowing them to source top-tier talent efficiently.Comprehensive Candidate Support – Unlike most agencies, they assist candidates beyond job placement, handling immigration, flights, onboarding, Social Security, and even driving licenses to ensure a smooth transition.Nurse-Led Recruitment Team – Their recruiters are former nurses, which helps build trust with candidates and ensures a deeper understanding of the industry’s needs.Retained, Upfront Payment Model – Instead of working on contingency, Intercare secures exclusive, retained contracts where clients pay upfront, covering immigration costs and reducing hiring risks.Extended Guarantee Period – They offer a 12-month guarantee, which is longer than industry standards, ensuring clients have long-term confidence in their hires.End-to-End Immigration Management – They fully integrate legal and immigration services into their process, partnering with immigration attorneys to handle all necessary paperwork.What are your key differentiators as a recruitment firm? How do you stand out from the competition? The key to getting retained clients is to show a unique solution that solves your client’s problems that they can’t get anywhere else.Overcoming the Recruiter’s Paradox - Finding the Right Member of Your TeamKarolina shared best practices in her approach to building her team. She has now expanded to 10 members - 5 in the US, 5 in the Philippines. This growth allowed her to grow her revenue from $5K/month to $300K/month in six months! What are her key techniques in finding great team members?“I see people's motivation and ambition rather than skills. You can teach skills, but you cannot teach attitude.” Aside from doing a DISC assessment, they invest time in researching the candidate, from social media, LinkedIn, and conducting three to four steps interviews.Once the team member gets hired, they focus on empowering and coaching them. Extensive training and tools for recruiters are provided while providing all the support needed for them to succeed. Karolina Willis Bio and Contact InfoKarolina Willis is a seasoned recruitment professional with 19 years of experience in the healthcare recruitment industry. As a CEO and Founder at Intercare Recruitment, she specializes in matching top-tier healthcare professionals with leading medical institutions, ensuring that both clients and candidates find the perfect fit.Karolina launched Intercare Recruitment in 2011, bringing with her a wealth of knowledge and a passion for the healthcare sector. Her deep understanding of the industry's unique challenges and requirements has made her an invaluable asset to the team. She has a proven track record of successfully placing candidates in a wide range of roles, from nursing and allied health positions to senior medical and executive roles.Karolina's approach to recruitment is characterized by her commitment to building strong, lasting relationships with both clients and candidates. She takes the time to understand the specific needs and aspirations of each party, providing personalized guidance and support throughout the recruitment process. Her meticulous attention to detail and her unwavering dedication to excellence have earned her a reputation for reliability and integrity in the industry.In addition to her professional achievements, Karolina is known for her leadership and mentoring skills. She plays a key role in training and developing new consultants at Intercare Recruitment, sharing her expertise and fostering a collaborative and supportive work environment.Karolina holds a Bachelor's degree in Human Resources Management and is a certified Professional in Human Resources (PHR). Outside of work, she is an advocate for mental health awareness and actively participates in community outreach programs aimed at improving healthcare services.With her extensive experience, deep industry knowledge, and a passion for making a positive impact, Karolina Willis continues to be a driving force behind Intercare Recruitment's success in the competitive healthcare recruitment landscape. Married and mother of 2 daughters, 5 and 8 years old. Lives in Greenville, SC.Karolina on LinkedInIntercare Recruitment website linkConnect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy callMark on LinkedIn, Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitbyMark on FacebookMark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoachSubscribe to The Resilient RecruiterIf you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

Focus is a superpower every recruiter needs, especially in a harsh market with tough competition. How do you keep yourself organized and focused despite multiple expectations that you have to deliver to your clients, candidates, and if you are a business owner, to your team?Jenny shares the Jenny Diaz Day Plan and how it helps her stay organized and focused every day. She also shares how basic daily tasks help her business navigate this tough market while navigating growth and expansion.Jenny Diaz entered recruiting in 2015. In late 2021, she, Ryan, and another former colleague, James, founded Apex Recruitment Group, a firm that specializes in construction management recruitment throughout DC, Virginia, and the Carolinas. While Jenny has worked in various industries, she has focused on construction management for the last several years. Through her recruitment career, Jenny has had the opportunity to participate in relevant non-profits that make the tough days in recruitment easier. She is currently the Vice President of one such organization, Career Confidence.Episode Outline and Highlights[03:31] How Jenny got into recruiting from studying Hebrew, traveling, car washing, and working on a dude ranch.[12:29] Discussion on “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.”[17:25] Launching Apex Recruitment Group and overcoming initial hurdles.[23:19] The added value of meeting people in person.[27:39] What is it like being married to your business partner?[30:09] Keys to getting her first million.[33:10] Going through challenges and things they would have done differently.[43:34] Jenny shares their growth plans.[48:03] Zooming in on Apex’s business culture.[54:37] Business development and client acquisition in a tough market.Jenny’s Day Planning ProcessFocus is the super power that recruiters need for sure. Successful business owners and recruiters have a daily hack on how to organize their to do’s and make the most of their days. Jenny is no different, and she gladly shared the “Jenny Diaz Day Plan.” “So I have this Microsoft Word doc… I print it out, I take a pencil because the day will change, and I write down whatever's on my Microsoft calendar. I have a list of follow-ups that I'm people I'm going to follow up with. That's usually like five to 30 people depending. I have my three main goals, I have my two jobs. I'm going to work that day if I get it. I have things I'm grateful for, that I've learned.”To summarize her methodology, here are the takeaways:Jenny meticulously plans each day using a printed Microsoft Word document with hourly blocksShe writes her plan in pencil to allow for adjustments throughout the dayHer day plan includes follow-ups, main goals, jobs to work, things she's grateful for, and long-term goalsWriting plans physically rather than digitally creates a stronger commitmentThe planning process helps combat distractions and provides focusJenny maintains this day-planning routine for approximately 90% of her workdaysDo you have a similar approach to being focused and organized?Going Through Setbacks and Valuable Lessons LearnedLike all business owners, Jenny and his team have had a few setbacks that can be considered teachable moments. 2023 was a challenging year for them as they expanded too quickly into new geographies while the market was getting softer. They also hired four additional people, which created financial pressure and eventually forced them to scale back after the overexpansion.Jenny shared critical learnings and adjustments they had to take to avoid reoccurrence. They learned the importance of tracking KPIs over different time periods (weekly, monthly, quarterly).“So one thing I have done this year, just with the team member I'm working with, and he probably hates it, but I'm telling him, listen, every week you're going to fill out this form and you know it's more than just KPIs.”They also used color-coding systems to track performance patterns.“This is what we're doing. Are they green, yellow, or red? I actually have them. I have them, Mark, green, yellow, or red? And you know, if last week was all red, but you're trailing six months are green. Like, let's get back at it if it's all red for six months. Well, this is a story, right?”Lastly, Jenny appreciates how partnership was crucial during tough times as partners talked each other ‘off the ledge’.“But I think the partnership was really helpful in that because we could look around and say, no, get back. Like, come back. Like, we've all been there. You're gonna get over it. You're gonna have a great month soon. I don't know when it is, but like just get back at it.”Business Development and Client Acquisition Tactics in a Tough MarketI also enjoyed the part of our interview where Jenny emphasized the importance of getting back to the basics on business development in a tough market.“But it's, it's the basics. I think we are still big on cold calls. We do business development calls that are cold. We try to do a little bit. I try to do a little bit on LinkedIn or a lot, as much as I can.”Their business development tactics include:Cold calls - the team targets 50 meaningful connections per week.LinkedIn EngagementDatabase management.Jenny Diaz Bio and Contact InfoJenny has partnered with firms of all sizes to successfully recruit entry-level professionals to C-level executives. Since 2017, she has focused on engaging construction management talent in the Mid-Atlantic and Southeast. She stumbled into recruitment through seemingly unrelated experiences that began with working and studying in Russia and Israel and then ended on a dude ranch outside of Yellowstone. She has learned that the people you meet along the way are anything but chance encounters.Jenny on LinkedInApex Recruitment Group website linkPeople and Resources MentionedGuerrilla Marketing for Job Hunters 3.0 by David PerryConnect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy callMark on LinkedIn, Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitbyMark on FacebookMark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoachSubscribe to The Resilient RecruiterIf you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

Dandan Zhu and Grace Marlin, co-founders of DG Recruitment, share tactical insights to help recruiters achieve top biller status in today's competitive landscape. Their rec-to-rec agency has given them unique visibility into what separates elite performers from the rest."To succeed in sales, you need to understand that everyone is extremely focused on their own needs," explains Dandan. "And hiring managers' primary need is that they suffer when it comes to hiring."This episode dives into three game-changing strategies: maintaining robust client pipelines beyond just a few accounts, making strategic relationship investments with measurable long-term ROI, and perfecting the MPC approach to immediately capture hiring managers' attention.With Dandan’s background as a top-performing recruiter who achieved financial independence by 28 and Grace's 6.5 years helping launch and elevate recruitment careers, they offer a powerful perspective on building sustainable success in agency recruitment.Episode Outline and Highlights[01:28] How Dandan and Grace started working together.[04:00] Insights on what is currently happening in the recruitment space.[06:40] What do top billers do consistently?[15:06] The ROI of thinking big and going the extra mile.[20:37] The concept of the “Golden Loop.”[27:26] What an MPC strategy blueprint should look like.[33:30] The value of adapting to rapid changes in market and technology.[37:22] How to learn more from Dandan and Grace’s online platforms.Top Billers Never Stop Building Client PipelinesWhile many recruiters became comfortable with just a few accounts during good times, Dandan Zhu observes these recruiters were "scrambling" when markets changed. To maintain a robust pipeline, top billers consistently build relationships through webinars, panels, and content creation.Dandan questions why more recruiters don't implement proven strategies: "Go out and set up a webinar for your network, for your niche. Go and set up a panel and invite your clients to be part of that as a BD tool." He notes that "all the playbook is there" but few recruiters convert theory into practice.Grace adds that success comes from "who is willing to go one to two steps deeper than everyone else" with investments that might take "six to eight months to really start getting there." These consistent efforts ensure you'll never be left claiming "nobody's paying fees" during downturns while competitors continue closing deals.The Long-Term ROI of Strategic Relationship InvestmentDG Recruitment hosts rooftop events and specialized gatherings like pottery painting sessions targeted to client demographics. Though measuring immediate return is challenging, Grace notes these investments create "much higher odds of placing candidates" and develop "closer relationships with more trust.""That year I met that person, two years later, that became a placement." Dandan explains their events were specifically designed for their target audience - "middle-aged women with kids in the Jersey pharma belt" for pottery painting, and New York recruiters for rooftop gatherings.These strategic relationship investments help recruiters stand out in an industry with reputation challenges. Grace observes it's "very easy to do better" than competitors by "just doing a couple things differently." While others focus on transactions, this approach builds a foundation of trust leading to higher placement odds, client loyalty, and valuable referrals.MPC Strategy: Skip the Intro and Sell Your TalentMost recruiters waste time on company introductions when contacting hiring managers. Dandan recommends a more effective approach: "Sell the NPC right away. Boom, boom." This direct method recognizes that hiring managers prioritize solving their problems over hearing about your firm.Hiring managers focus primarily on addressing their own challenges. A refined approach that immediately demonstrates candidate value shows respect for their time while positioning you as a solutions provider. Dandan emphasizes creating compelling candidate profiles with a confident, engaging tone instead of a nervous or disinterested delivery.In today's competitive landscape, the first few seconds determine client engagement. Leading with immediate value helps bypass typical screening filters, significantly increasing your chances of meaningful engagement and placement success.Related Podcast You Might EnjoyTRR #110 - Why Top Billers Don’t Want to Join Your Recruitment AgencyDandan Zhu Bio and Contact InfoDandan Zhu launched her agency recruitment career at the age of 23, quickly excelling as a full-desk headhunter specializing in a technical niche and eventually executive search for the pharmaceutical and life sciences industry. Through high commissions, obsessive saving, and aggressive investing, a method she calls “The Millionaire Trifecta”, Dandan achieved financial independence by 28, transitioning into full-time entrepreneurship.She is the founder of DG Recruit (est. 2018), a leading R2R (recruiter-to-recruiter) firm serving top billers and recruitment agencies, and Agency Recruitment Academy (est. 2024), where she provides training and guidance to senior producers and recruitment leaders.Dandan is also the author of Agency Recruitment 101, a comprehensive guide offering insights into the recruitment business model, commission structures, and industry best practices. She hosts the DG Recruit Podcast featuring top voices in the recruitment industry and showcasing top sales and recruitment strategies and tactics.An active speaker and trainer, Dandan collaborates with go-getters and leaders in the recruitment industry to elevate their skills and results. Her mission is to share the knowledge she gained as a headhunter, sales leader, and entrepreneur, empowering others to achieve financial, career, and life success.Dandan on LinkedInDandan on InstagramDandan on Twitter @dandanzhudgGrace Marlin Bio and Contact InfoGrace has been servicing the agency recruitment industry for the past 6.5 years as the Co-Founder of DG Recruit, a US-based agency-to-agency rec2rec firm.Throughout Grace's time in the industry, she has helped launch, elevate, and track the careers of top performing recruitment and staffing sales professionals which has provided her a keen vantage point to understand what it takes to be a successful agency recruitment professional. She is passionate about the unique earning potential and autonomy that comes from a successful career in the industry, so she solely focuses on the agency side, NOT HR/internal recruiting/TA roles.Grace routinely shares industry-related content on LinkedIn and is a champion for leveraging social media marketing as a cornerstone of your recruitment practice since it's still an underutilized tool for current and aspiring top billers.In addition to her work at DG Recruit, she co-founded Recruiter Prep which offers an "Intro to Agency Recruitment Course" that teaches aspiring agency recruiters everything they know to break into the industry with the highest probability of having a successful first year.Grace on LinkedInDG Recruit website linkDG Recruit Podcast link DG Recruit on FacebookDG Recruit on YouTubePeople and Resources MentionedInfluence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert B. CialdiniConnect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy callMark on LinkedInMark on Twitter: @MarkWhitbyMark on FacebookMark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoachSubscribe to The Resilient RecruiterIf you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.

In this engaging conversation, Leo Hewett, Founder of Core3, shares his inspiring journey of building an ethical recruitment firm focused on finance and accounting. He discusses the influence of his mother in shaping his commitment to community impact. Leo reveals how purpose-driven initiatives attract top talent and foster team dynamics. He also offers insights on nurturing past professional relationships and the importance of a personal brand on LinkedIn. The discussion highlights challenges faced during growth and strategies to overcome them while maintaining a strong company culture.

What if your next training session became the highlight of your recruiters' week rather than just another calendar obligation? We explore how innovative recruitment leaders transform traditional onboarding into engaging experiences that drive performance and retention. In this episode, a tenured recruiter and recruitment business owner shares his experience in training hundreds of recruiters in this career. For David, “training and developing people is fun!” David Bloxham is the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David is passionate about connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward.  In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has expanded globally with a team of 100 consultants and 7 offices including London, Reading, Amsterdam, Berlin, Dublin, Orlando and Philadelphia.   Episode Outline and Highlights [02:12] How did David get started in recruiting? [04:30] Has productivity in recruitment remaining relatively constant over time? [13:08] Effective and efficient team structure to increase productivity. [20:23] Hiring and developing hundreds of people over the years, what key training elements David wishes to share? [36:05] David and his team use tools and technology for reports and gamifying objectives. [40:27] Core focus of recruiters despite technological advances: telephone first and networking. [49:31] Discussion on David’s Management Buyout (MBO) experience and learnings. [56:53] Should your recruitment firm get an investment from a Private Equity?   Training and Developing People is Fun!   David started in the recruiting industry in 1996, and both of us agree that training back then was almost as simple as “here is a phonebook, and a phone, start calling.” We both understand the value of effective training as a key ingredient to successful recruiting results.    Having hired and developed hundreds of recruiters over the years, what is David’s approach to training, especially in this age where technology can overwhelm the human factor of a new recruiter? For David, it is about going back to basics and focusing on what a recruiter really does. Phone first, and building a network. He utilizes existing technology and tech stack, especially when monitoring and gamifying performance as part of training and development. Most importantly, his mindset says a lot about his success, “Training and developing people is fun!”   Below are some of the takeaways he shared on this topic:   Passion for Teaching – He genuinely enjoys training people, seeing them "get it," and watching their progress. His enthusiasm makes training engaging and impactful. Gamification and Fun—He introduces friendly competitions, small challenges (like mentioning random topics in calls), and a team environment that keeps training lively and engaging. Hands-On Learning – He believes in learning by doing, allowing trainees to make calls early, experience rejection, and develop resilience. Focus on Fundamentals – Despite industry changes, he emphasizes that the core of recruitment remains the same: connecting clients and candidates. Creating a Supportive Environment – He fosters a collaborative setting where trainees can share wins, struggles, and experiences. Emphasizing Resilience – He prepares recruiters for the challenges of the job, especially handling rejection and navigating modern recruitment complexities. Adapting Training to Modern Challenges – He acknowledges changes in recruitment (e.g., difficulty reaching candidates, compliance hurdles) and tailors training to address these new realities.   What Does a Recruiter Do? Despite technological advances in AI, David strongly believes that focusing on the human factor by understanding what a recruiter does is still the key success factor in this field. He believes that two things are essential: Telephone First Building a Network   Regardless of what AI or other tools can do to improve your recruitment process, it is still a recruiter’s human factor of connecting with candidates and clients that drives the decision of whether you will win the business or not. As he puts it,  “And, and that's really where I kind of come to with, with what does a recruiter do? What a recruiter does is it has the human interaction, the human touch, right? And if we can really get that into the heads of recruiters, this is where your value is. This is what you do, right? You meet people, you talk to people, you network, you find out things.”   Indeed, recruiters who rely too much on automation risk becoming replaceable. But those who master the human side of the business—building relationships, influencing decisions, and adding personal value—will always be in demand.   Learnings from an MBO (Management Buyout) As one of the first employees at GCS, David was deeply invested in the company’s growth. When it reached an eight-figure valuation, the decision was made to exit certain owners and transition leadership. Since David didn’t have the capital to buy out the founder, they sought backing from nGAGE, an investment company that specializes in recruitment businesses. The process involved intense due diligence, financial scrutiny, and planning to make GCS an attractive investment.   David's learnings also apply to recruitment business owners who plan to exit and sell their business through acquisition. You may be interested in the following topics that David elaborated on:   Know Your Numbers Focus on Profitability & Efficiency Investors Want Focus & Justification Culture & Brand Matter The Shift from Employee to Shareholder   David Bloxham Bio and Contact Info   David Bloxham is a seasoned recruitment professional and the CEO of GCS Recruitment. With over 30 years of experience, David has a passion for connecting innovative technology companies with the expert talent they need to drive their businesses forward. In 2017, he led a successful management buyout (MBO) with nGAGE Talent, further solidifying his leadership in the industry. Under his guidance, GCS Recruitment has grown significantly on a global scale, helping clients to "Employ the Future to Create it." David's expertise in the recruitment industry and his dedication to fostering strong client relationships have made him a respected figure in the field.   David on LinkedIn GCS Tech Talent website link GCS Connect Leaders podcast nGAGE talent website link   People and Resources Mentioned   LinkedIn Recruiter Lusha Crunchbase Daxtra PowerBI   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter   If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  

Melanie De Beer, Director of Full Circle Selection, has over 25 years of experience in recruitment and specializes in finance and engineering. She shares her transformative journey from top recruiter to strategic leader, highlighting the crucial mindset shift needed to scale her business. The discussion focuses on effective delegation, increasing pricing for quality, and building a self-sustaining team. Melanie emphasizes the importance of leadership, continuous improvement in recruitment practices, and empowering others to foster growth and success.

Would you be apprehensive about adding a recruitment bot in your hiring process at the risk of losing the ‘human’ factor? Our special guest, Betsy Robinson, explains how they utilize AI trends and other tech stacks to enhance their client and candidate experience.   Betsy Robinson is the Founder & CEO of Tier4 Group, a woman-owned, diversity-certified talent acquisition firm headquartered in Atlanta.    The company specializes in connecting exceptional talent with top-tier employers for technology and executive roles, combining advanced recruitment automation with a personalized approach.    Under her leadership, Tier4 Group has achieved remarkable recognition, including six consecutive years on the Inc. 5000 list of fastest-growing companies (2019-2024) and five appearances on the Atlanta Pacesetters list.   Episode Outline and Highlights   [03:03] Recruiting out of college - beginning of Betsy’s 20-year recruitment journey. [07:05] How she ventured out alone - discussing high points and challenges. [18:31] Fostering a culture of feedback and how it elevates the quality of output. [24:19] Incorporating recruitment automation, technology, and AI. [33:35] Would you include a digital recruiter in hiring your process? [41:15] Betsy reveals their tech stack and AI trends. [47:28] The value of using note-taking AI tools. [51:52] Creating a culture of strong team collaboration.   Incorporating a Digital Recruiter in the Hiring Process   Would you consider incorporating a recruitment ‘bot’ in your hiring process? A lot of recruitment business owners might be apprehensive about doing so, as it poses the risk of diminishing the ‘human touch’ in the process.    On the other hand, Betsy's team is leveraging a "digital employee," specifically a digital recruiter, to enhance their hiring process. This AI-powered recruiter can call and chat with candidates, helping to screen large volumes of applicants more efficiently while maintaining a personalized experience. Unlike traditional chatbots or automated emails, this digital recruiter has a live voice and engages in real conversations, making it feel more human-like.   Some of the outlined advantages of this investment include:   Speed & Efficiency – The digital recruiter can process large volumes of candidates quickly, helping the team sift through hundreds of applicants without delays. Candidate Engagement – One of the biggest complaints in recruitment is ghosting—candidates never hearing back from employers. A digital recruiter ensures consistent communication, so candidates stay informed. 24/7 Availability – Unlike human recruiters who work business hours, the digital employee can operate around the clock, allowing candidates to engage at their convenience—whether during a lunch break or late at night.   Tech Stack and AI Trends   Betsy and I also talked about the tech stacks they are using and the recent trends in technology that recruiters can use to either improve and simplify their processes, improve candidate and client engagement, and manage performance and KPIs for their employees.   We have listed below some tools that you may already be familiar with or others you might consider exploring:    Applicant Tracking & CRM Systems Loxo – Legacy ATS/CRM system  Tracker – New ATS & CRM for front/middle office operations with better API integrations AI-Powered Communication Tools CloudCall – AI-driven text and voice communication for candidate and client interactions. Digital Recruiters (AI Recruiters) – AI-powered virtual recruiters that conduct initial screenings via calls and chats. Note-Takers & Meeting Assistants Otter.ai – AI-powered transcription and meeting summarization. Fathom – AI note-taking with advanced meeting insights. Fireflies – AI transcription, summarization, and team collaboration. Copilot (Microsoft) – AI assistant for Teams meetings and documentation. Quill – AI-driven note-taking tool specifically for recruiters. Gong – AI-powered call analysis and coaching for sales and recruiter conversations. AI-Driven Data Management & Automation VMS Integrations – Automates job order creation and updates within the ATS. AI-Powered Contact Management – Automatically updates candidate and client contact information. AI for Remote Team Collaboration & Coaching AI Call Coaching (via GPT or Gong) – Analyzes recruiter and sales calls for performance improvement. Remarkable (Digital Notepad) – Converts handwritten notes to digital format for easy CRM integration.   These tools collectively enhance efficiency, automation, and candidate engagement in recruitment businesses.   Creating a Culture of Strong Team Collaboration   Despite being tech-heavy, Betsy and her team still invest in ensuring that their connection and culture as a team is as collaborative as can be. With a team of 30, mostly working remotely, seamless collaboration and teamwork are essential.   This is how she summarizes their collaboration:  “We, I will say, first of all, we welcome all ideas. It doesn't matter if you are someone who's been on our team for one week or someone who's been on our team for one year or you've been our first employee who's been here 10 years. Everybody brings unique at different perspective perspectives. And I would say we are much more collaborative in our decision-making.”   She also added the value of transparency: “We also communicate to the best of our ability the why behind a lot of our decisions that we're making.”   Lastly, she emphasized the value of accountability: “So we're also working on a culture of, you know, pure accountability.”   The key factors are critical in Betsy’s successful culture-building. Do you have similar values in terms of your business culture?   Betsy Robinson Bio and Contact Info   Betsy Robinson is the Founder & CEO of Tier4 Group. Headquartered in Atlanta, Tier4 Group is a woman-owned and diversity-certified talent acquisition firm specializing in connecting exceptional talent with top-tier employers seeking to fill technology and executive roles. By combining advanced recruitment automation with a personalized approach, Tier4 strives to identify the best fit for both the customer and the candidate.   Tier4 Group has been recognized for six consecutive years (2019-2024) as one of the fastest-growing companies in the nation on the prestigious Inc. 5000 list, as well as being named for a 5th time in 2024 to the Atlanta Pacesetters list of the fastest growing privately-held companies in GA. Additionally, the company is a four-time Bulldog 100 Honoree. The Bulldog 100 recognizes the 100 fastest-growing businesses owned or operated by UGA Alumni.    Betsy was named LGBTQ Businessperson of the Year in Georgia in 2023 and recognized to the inaugural Inc Magazine 30 Under 30-ish list in 2023. She was also named to the Atlanta Business Chronicle’s 40 Under 40 Class of 2019. Betsy holds a B.B.A. from the University of Georgia’s Terry College of Business. She is an active volunteer with Women in Technology (WIT), currently serving on the Board of Directors. Betsy has also served on the Board of Directors for the Technology Association of Georgia’s Diversity & Inclusion Society, as well as the Business Advisory Board for ITT Technical Institute.    Outside of work, Betsy is active in outreach within the community as a volunteer supporting several non-profits. Her most important jobs are as a wife and mom. On weekends, you can find her cheering on her son on the soccer field, boating on the lake, or cheering loudly in the stands for the Atlanta sports team as well as the Georgia Bulldogs.   Betsy on LinkedIn Tier4 Group website link Retained Executive Search (a division of Tier4) website link WIT (Women in Technology) website link   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn,  Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.  

A 25-year recruiting veteran! Our special guest, Jeff Cox, shares his journey and insights on how he made two transitions to up his recruitment game: From placing junior to senior roles and switching from contingent to retainer model.   These shifts can be challenging, and so it takes the right mindset and preparation for your to have the power to transition. Jeff shared how he did it!   Jeff specializes in assisting biotech and pharmaceutical companies in building transformative leadership teams.    As a member of the prestigious Pinnacle Society, Jeff is one of the top-producing recruiters in the country. But he believes success in this industry is less about the money and more about the people we impact and the life-changing projects we advance.   Episode Outline and Highlights   [02:50] How did Jeff end up in the recruiting industry after aspiring to become an actor? [06:52] Acting as Jeff’s cornerstone in his recruitment approach. [10:42] Success factors contributing to consistent improvement when starting your desk. [18:34] Why being nervous all the time is not necessarily a bad thing. [20:11] Jeff shares his experience working with his father and siblings in the business. [24:48] Transition to placing senior directors, VPs, and C-level executives. [42:36] Insights on the current market and team dynamics and how it can be challenging for [retained searches. [48:34] Switching from contingent to retained search - the power of walking away. [54:35] Going back to the basics amid a big reset in 2025.   What Success Looked Like   What would Jeff consider a success factor in his success as a recruitment business owner? For him, it is no magic ingredient.   “It's just showing up every day and being, you know, you know, like my dad says. We used to say, “Dad, I don't know what to do.” You know, pick up the phone. That's what you do. “Dad, I don't have enough job orders.” Pick up the phone. If you work every day, it works out.”   Jeff emphasized the value of being consistent and showing up every day as a key factor in his longevity and success in the recruiting field. He also shared how his background as an actor helped him learn a lot about being human - which is a key ingredient when building relationships with clients and candidates.    “I mean, I think that's the foundation, of why I'm a good recruiter. Because, you know, the most important thing to do as an actor is to listen. To listen and to live in the moment, you know, not, not to let things get ahead of yourself… I guess also the ability, you know, when you play a lot of different characters, you have to be able to jump into other people's skin. You have to be able to understand.”   On top of the above, he also had the foundation of working in his father’s recruitment firm. This led him to eventually build his desk and the rest is history. Transitioning to Place Executive Senior Roles   Jeff initially worked in lower-level positions such as associates and clinical chemists. When he started his firm, he made two key decisions that positively impacted his revenue.   Making a strategic decision to focus on higher-level positions such as directors, VPs, and C-level executives. Moving from Contingency to Retained search model.   The first item above is not an easy transition. Jeff decided to no longer accept managerial placements but rather focus on executive-level positions. Here are the two takeaways:    Making a Conscious, Strategic Shift – He decided to position himself exclusively for senior director-level and above roles. This meant actively telling the market, "No, I don't work at that level; I only recruit senior executives." By consistently reinforcing this message, he established himself as a specialist in executive recruitment.   Leveraging Long-Term Relationships – Over time, the professionals he had placed in junior roles advanced in their careers, moving into managerial and director positions. He capitalized on these relationships, using his existing network to transition into higher-level placements.   He also had the same mindset when he switched from a contingent to a retained search model. He shared that for him to have the ability to make strong choices such as this decision to switch, he had to ensure that he kept his housekeeping in order. “I made a strategic choice to live within my means. And when I made. When I made these choices, I was like, okay, you've got enough. You've got enough Runway where you can do it.”   Why Going Back to the Basics is Essential in This Market   A key topic that resonates with me is how Jeff deals with the current market difficulty in the pharmaceutical and biotech industries.     “I think the pharmaceutical and biotech industry has had a rough year and there's this balancing act that I'm going through in my brain. Do I go back to contingency when times are tough? Like, like what do you know? What do I do?”    If you can relate to how Jeff felt, I am sure you will appreciate his strong sense of accountability and self-awareness.    “And I, and I have found that I'm not, I'm not doing my job as well as I should. So it's now for me it's a time to get back to the basics. And I think that's what 2025 is. It's getting back to doing the job properly, you know, and, and you know, and I fault myself because I should have known this, but sometimes you don't see it, but really like sitting here now, it's just getting back to the basics. So I'm excited and that's exciting to me. It's like the realization is I gotta go back to the basics. I gotta start hammering out the phone calls and it's exciting.”   Such an admirable mindset!    Jeff Cox Bio & Contact Info   With over 25 years of experience in pharmaceutical recruitment, Jeff has built a career connecting top talent with leading companies. The journey began in 1995 with a first placement made in just 16 days—a milestone that set the stage for decades of success.   Starting with roles such as Clinical Research Associates, Analytical Chemists, and Regulatory Affairs Associates, Jeff steadily progressed to placing Managers, Senior Managers, Associate Directors, and Directors. Today, the focus is on VP-level and executive placements, a natural evolution earned through years of dedication and expertise.   More than just a recruiter, Jeff is a builder—helping biotech and pharmaceutical companies strengthen their leadership teams with experienced professionals who have climbed the ranks step by step. At this level, recruitment goes beyond compensation; it’s about aligning the right people with the right projects to drive innovation and impact.   Jeff on LinkedIn CKR Associates website link Pinnacle Society website link   People and Resources Mentioned   Katherine Jerald on LinkedIn Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In, R.Fisher   Connect with Mark Whitby Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call Mark on LinkedIn Mark on Twitter: @MarkWhitby Mark on Facebook Mark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach   Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter If you’ve been enjoying the podcast, please take two minutes to leave a review. Your review is greatly appreciated because it helps us attract a bigger audience and help more recruiters.