The Resilient Recruiter

Andy Dunne thought other agency owners were the enemy. They'd steal clients, poach candidates, copy ideas. Sound familiar?Then he joined Team in 2014 just to save £130 a month on job boards. Eleven years later, he's their managing director, overseeing 500+ agencies that split over £6 million in fees last year.What changed? Andy learned that protecting everything actually kills more business than it creates.In this episode, you'll discover:Why 80% of Team's agencies went from generalist to specialist since 2014 (and why the generalists are getting crushed)The market intelligence strategy that makes prospects call you instead of you chasing themHow two specialist agencies split £40,600 by collaborating on out-of-niche rolesThe mental health reality of running an agency alone - and why Andy champions this causeWhy your real competition isn't other agencies, but AI and managed service providersAndy shares the quarterly report strategy that made one agency owner "untouchable" with prospects, the collaboration mindset shift that's transforming the industry, and why the isolation of solo agency ownership is something that can't be ignored.Whether you're a solo agency owner or leading a team, this conversation challenges the "protect everything" mentality and shows how collaboration can transform your business.Andy Dunne is Managing Director of Team, the UK's largest network of independently owned recruitment businesses. With over 20 years in recruitment, including running his own agency, Andy is passionate about collaboration and community. Since joining Team, he's helped agencies save millions in job board costs and connect through an active network that shares over £6m annually in split fees.

What if you could run your recruiting firm on autopilot while launching a completely new business? Brian Gabay has mastered this balance—his 5-person team makes placements without him while he builds a tech startup.Brian founded Brian Simon Associates (BSA) in 2016, specializing in PR and marketing recruitment. He built systems, transforming his business from constant attention to running independently. This freedom allowed him to launch Arrange AI, eliminating interview coordination, which consumes 70% of recruiters' admin time.Brian reveals his framework: getting your entire team on client calls, his "hire two people" strategy, and the mindset shift to step away from daily operations. Plus, surviving a 6-month placement drought taught him the resilience needed to juggle multiple ventures.Episode Outline and Highlights[7:19] The reality TV opportunity that came at the worst time[8:11] How a 3-year kidney donor search taught him resilience[19:50] Why are placed candidates overlooked for new business[20:27] Daily LinkedIn habit: One new connection PLUS one reconnection[23:40] Surviving the drought: First placement took 5-6 months[26:14] The 6-month cash cushion rule for going solo[36:35] Hiring strategy: "If you like two people, hire them both."[44:27] Why 70% of recruiting time is wasted on scheduling[50:18] Game-changer: Getting your entire team on client calls[52:58] Building systems: "Placements happen without me"Building Through SetbacksBrian's approach to adversity was forged through personal crisis. With his father on dialysis, Brian applied recruiting skills to find a kidney donor."I wasn't a blood match. Neither were my sisters. He's type O... I searched for three years. There was a dark world out there. People wanted money... My dad's life is on the line."The breakthrough came through Jennifer Wolf, who responded to his outreach "just like we would do on LinkedIn." When Fox discovered his YouTube video and offered him a spot on "Home Free" to compete for a house for Jennifer, the timing couldn't have been worse.The 6-Month RuleBrian's practical approach began with planning: "I saved enough to pay rent for six months. That was my cushion... I need to make a placement within six months. If I can't, then maybe this is not for me."His advice emphasizes transparency: "If you're starting your own firm and leaving your current one, have a transparent conversation... Even if these are connections you made yourself, it was created under someone else's umbrella. Leave on good terms."From Solo to ScaleAfter three years solo, Brian began building a team. When he discovered an employee ignoring candidate emails, instead of retreating, he refined his approach:"Out of 10 people, if there's two you really like and you're on the fence, hire both. If one doesn't work out, you still got a really good one."The transformation came from one change: "Having them involved in all client calls... Now if it's a new business call, it's all five of us. They meet the client, ask questions, take notes... I've seen the ownership kick in."This freed Brian to launch Arrange while BSA operated: "Sometimes there's placements being made and I'm not involved at all."Brian Gabay BioBrian Gabay founded BSA in 2016, specializing in PR, Marketing, and Digital/Social recruiting. He's partnered with recognized PR agencies and brands nationwide. With over a decade of experience, Business Insider named him one of the top PR recruiters in the country. Earlier this year, he launched Arrange AI—a smart scheduling tool for recruiters coordinating meetings between external parties.Brian on LinkedInArrange AI: arrange.aiBSA: briansimonsassociates.comResources Mentioned"Home Free" on FoxTim Tebow on LinkedInConnect with Mark WhitbyFREE strategy call: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-sessionLinkedIn | Twitter: @MarkWhitbyFacebook | Instagram: @RecruitmentCoachSubscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Johnny Campbell, Co-founder and CEO of SocialTalent, is a renowned expert on AI in recruitment. He reveals that AI can recruit more effectively than humans, citing compelling data. As Johnny shares insights from his journey launching a recruitment agency during the 2008 recession, he predicts that many recruiters will be obsolete in the next decade. He discusses how AI excels at finding and assessing candidates while revealing interesting anecdotes like the success of a $2 billion AI startup. The conversation highlights the necessity of adapting to an AI-driven landscape.

Most recruitment agencies waste £50+ per cold call meeting. Anthony Lewis found a better way to scale from startup to 50-person team.Anthony's team made 1,500 cold calls for just 27 placements. That 1.8% conversion rate would panic most agency owners. Instead, he built a candidate experience system that turns rejections into revenue.What You'll Learn:How to build agency growth without expensive cold callingBusiness development strategies that actually workHow 86% candidate satisfaction became his competitive advantageAgency scaling secrets from startup to 50 employeesWhy treating candidates like future clients changes everythingKey Insights:9:39 Why purpose prevents fee-chasing behavior24:53 What "psychological safety" means for performance35:30 Why individual KPIs beat generic targets45:43 The candidate feedback system that drives growth50:26 How the MD personally calls every unhappy candidateAnthony Lewis Bio and Contact Info Anthony is passionate about the careers of public sector leaders, and for over a decade has supported organisations nationally to attract and hire the best talent. Whether interims, Non Execs or people into permanent roles, Anthony is never happier than when helping people fulfil their career ambitions. Anthony is Managing Director at Tile Hill, a public sector-focused executive recruitment company, and is hugely proud of the achievements of the business and those around him. From having been awarded Best Company to Work For, Best In House L&D at the 2024 REC Awards, the Best Candidate Experience category at the 2024 Tiara Awards, and most recently voted the number 1 interim service provider in the Institute of Interim Management Annual Survey, it is a reflection of the values led approach and passion that Tile Hill's team show as they approach their work every day. With an EVP of #Lovetheimpactyou make, we are all inspired to make a difference for those who are shaping the society we live in.• Tile Hill website linkAnthony Lewis on LinkedInDifferent Leadership website linkTile's fundraiser for Alzheimer's SocietyPeople and Resources MentionedDavid Weir on LinkedInLeo Hewett on LinkedIn Force24JobAdderAdecco GroupConnect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy callMark on LinkedInMark on Twitter: @MarkWhitbyMark on FacebookMark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoachSubscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Fired in 3 days, Dario Furman rebounded to bill $6.5M. Learn his recruitment growth strategies using relationships, niche focus & AI.Fired three days into his first recruiting job, Dario Furman could have walked away. Instead, a bold “second chance” email to the CEO got him rehired and launched a 17-year executive search career placing 500+ professionals and billing $6.5M at StevenDouglas.In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Dario shares how resilience, relationship-building, and smart use of AI helped him become one of Florida’s top billers. You’ll learn how he turned candidates into loyal clients, outworked his competition, and built a sustainable desk focused on quality, not transactions.You’ll discover:The comeback story that began with a “second chance” email.How Dario became a top 3 national biller within a year.Overcoming fear of business development and calling C-suite decision-makers.Turning long-term candidate relationships into client revenue.Why did he “MPC’d” himself into StevenDouglas?Leveraging niche focus, KPIs, AI tools, and warm introductions to boost results.Automations that enhance, not replace, human connection.About Dario:Dario connects top-tier finance and accounting talent with South Florida’s leading companies. Since joining StevenDouglas in 2014, he’s placed 387 professionals with an 8% falloff rate, generating over $6.4M in fees. Fluent in English and Spanish, he combines modern recruiting tools with an old-school relationship-first approach.People and Resources Mentioned:James Cairns on LinkedInChatGPT Herefish Quil AIConnect with Mark WhitbyGet your FREE 30-minute strategy callMark on LinkedInMark on Twitter: @MarkWhitbyMark on FacebookMark on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoachSubscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

What if your job board wasn’t just a place to post jobs—but the top of your sales funnel?In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Jordan Whilden shares how he scaled Ministry Hub, a faith-based executive search firm, by transforming a niche job board into a predictable lead generation machine. Fueled by a cold email campaign that delivers a 17% reply rate, Jordan’s model shows how recruiters can generate clients consistently—without cold calling or high-pressure tactics.We dive into the exact steps Jordan took to build a multi-service recruitment business, from his transition out of pastoral ministry to launching a proprietary ATS (MinistryHire) and leading a fully remote team. If you’re a recruitment agency owner looking to build smarter systems, offer tiered services, or grow recurring revenue, this episode is packed with actionable ideas and inspiration.Episode Highlights:From full-time ministry to launching a job board side hustleEvolving from job board to full-service search firmFirst-year lessons: underpricing, overwhelm, and early winsWhy building a custom ATS was a game-changerCreating flexible, tiered service modelsHow “serve first” creates long-term client winsCold outreach strategy: 89% open rate, 17% repliesThe tools behind his tech stack: Loxo, Instantly, Hireflix, Asana, ScribeScaling with a 3-person offshore teamOne-way video interviews and standout candidate presentationRecurring revenue through subscription-based ATSLeading with values while balancing family and business growthKey Takeaways:A job board can be more than a job board—it can be your client magnetValue-first cold emails build trust before sellingScaling is easier with systems, SOPs, and the right offshore supportServing your niche exceptionally well creates both impact and revenueAbout Jordan Whilden:Jordan is the founder and CEO of Ministry Hub, a faith-based executive search firm. With a Master’s in Theology and an MBA, he brings a rare mix of pastoral insight and business acumen. Prior to launching Ministry Hub in 2021, Jordan served churches on both coasts, including leadership at one of America’s largest congregations. He’s also the creator of MinistryHire, a purpose-built ATS and job board platform serving mission-driven organizations.Today, Jordan helps churches and nonprofits build world-changing teams—and has grown Ministry Hub into a go-to talent partner in the faith sector.He lives in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, with his wife Brittany and their son. Outside work, they love kayaking, the beach, and traveling as a family.Connect with Jordan:Jordan on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordanwhilden/Ministry Hub Website - https://ministryhub.org/MinistryHire Website - https://ministryhire.com/Connect with Mark Whitby:Get a FREE strategy call: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-sessionMark on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwhitby/X: @MarkWhitbyInstagram: @RecruitmentCoachSubscribe to The Resilient Recruiter - https://plinkhq.com/i/1489513354

Tired of the outdated “thirds” model in executive search? Andrew Mears was too. That’s why he co-founded Lead Candidate—a niche search firm serving the pharma and bio-outsourcing sector—based on a transparent, fixed-fee subscription model that’s up to 30% more cost-effective than traditional pricing.In this episode, Andrew reveals how Lead Candidate went from break-even to 133% revenue growth by rethinking everything: pricing, positioning, sales, and even internal rituals like “Tom’s Day of Bad Ideas.” You’ll hear how they grew entirely through referrals—no cold calls, no job scraping, no outbound—and why clients commit to 3–18 month subscription agreements that provide predictable revenue for the firm and budgeting certainty for their CFOs.If you're a recruitment firm owner frustrated with unpredictable billings, client churn, or the limitations of contingent search, this conversation will show you what’s possible when you lead with values, relevance, and partnership—not pitches.Episode Highlights[3:24] Why Andrew left a COO role to start over during COVID—and how a health scare changed his outlook[12:22] The broken search pricing model—and how Lead Candidate built a better one[22:30] Defining a niche within a niche: how their positioning sets them apart[31:55] Capsule vs. Scale vs. Annual Subscription: how their pricing tiers work[43:39] Why they broke even for 2 years—then tripled revenue during a downturn[56:42] How they land clients without cold outreach[1:08:06] Tom’s Day of Bad Ideas: the internal ritual that drives innovation[1:19:20] How they’re using AI tools like Quill to free up human interactionWhy This Subscription Model WorksInstead of charging a percentage of salary in staged fees, Lead Candidate scopes each project based on hiring volume, role complexity, and delivery effort. Pricing is fixed, agreed upfront, and delivered via subscription—typically 3, 6, or 12+ months.This approach gives clients cost transparency and spending predictability—especially valuable for VC-backed, resource-constrained companies—and positions Lead Candidate as a strategic partner rather than a transactional vendor.No Cold Calls, Just ClientsLead Candidate didn’t rely on cold outreach. Before launching, Andrew’s team surveyed the market, co-created their offer with prospects, and built deep trust through relevance and listening. Their early clients didn’t need convincing—they were already bought in.“We never sold. We just listened. The worst outcome was a great conversation.”This approach helped them create a high-conviction pipeline, long-term client relationships, and sticky recurring revenue—without chasing unqualified leads or relying on outdated biz dev tactics.A Values-First Growth StoryThe journey wasn’t easy. For the first two years, they broke even. But Andrew and his co-founders stayed true to their niche, hired with care, and grew by reputation. By 2024, the firm had grown 133% in revenue and 250% in headcount—without compromising on culture or delivery quality.“We built the business the market told us it needed—and just stayed true to it.”About Andrew MearsAndrew is the CEO of Lead Candidate, a search firm he co-founded in 2020 to champion talent in the global life sciences sector. He began his career in HR before moving into executive recruitment, where he’s spent 16+ years building national and international practices.Connect with Andrew on LinkedInVisit Lead CandidatePeople and Resources MentionedQuillAssistCV (by Odro)ChatGPT“Buy Back Your Time” by Dan Martell“Built to Sell” by John Warrilow“Molecule to Market” PodcastConnect with Mark Whitby Book a free strategy call Mark on LinkedIn @RecruitmentCoach on Instagram @MarkWhitby on Twitter

What does it take to build a recruiting firm that survives three recessions, operates across borders, and thrives without retainers?In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, we spotlight David Fishman, founder of Sparrow Company—a bi-national executive search and staffing firm based in both the U.S. and Mexico. David shares how he rebuilt after nearly losing everything in 2009 and developed a resilient, multi-revenue business that consistently closes $30K+ deals on contingency.With a team of 12 and placements ranging from hourly plant workers to C-suite executives, David proves that long-term success in recruiting isn’t about flashy tech or a narrow niche—it’s about grit, loyalty, smart diversification, and building client trust.Whether you’re a firm owner, solo operator, or team leader, this episode will inspire you to think bigger, act faster, and future-proof your business model.Episode Highlights:[2:30] Why David’s recruiting journey started with a family staffing business and a Coast Guard exit[7:00] How the 2009 recession nearly wiped him out—and what it took to survive[16:00] Expanding into Mexico: a single client request that changed everything[24:00] Building a binational team and training his kids to become recruiters[36:00] Why he’s not retained (yet), and how he consistently closes $30K+ fees on contingency[47:00] How Sparrow places both plant supervisors and presidents using the same recruiting mechanics[1:06:00] David’s multiple revenue streams: recruiting projects, temp staffing, nearshore talent[1:13:00] Why impulsivity is his superpower and what legacy he wants to leave behindWhy Diversification is Non-NegotiableAfter nearly losing his business during the 2009 downturn, David made a key decision: stop relying on one industry or one type of placement. Today, Sparrow Company operates across manufacturing, engineering, mining, supply chain, and IT—placing roles at all levels across North America and Europe.Key takeaway for recruiters: Think beyond niche. Build a multi-layered model across industry, function, level, and geography.3 Revenue Streams Every Recruiting Firm Owner Should KnowTo protect against market shifts and add recurring income, David built three revenue lines:Embedded recruiters on short-term contractsTemporary staffing through a dedicated local firmContract engineers working remotely from Mexico for U.S. clientsThese offerings helped him scale sustainably, stabilize cash flow, and serve clients more deeply.“Every time we add a new service, it helps us survive another economic cycle.”How to Close $30K+ Deals Without RetainersDavid works 100% on contingency—but trains his clients to expect fewer resumes and faster, more precise matches. His firm is known for first-candidate hires and high-level execution without the upfront fees.“I’m not retained, but I’m still beating the firms that are. Because I’m hungrier.”About David FishmanDavid Fishman is the founder of Sparrow Company, a bi-national staffing and executive search firm incorporated in the United States and Mexico. With 30+ years in recruiting, he’s placed CEO, CFO, VP, Director, Plant Manager, and Engineering roles across global manufacturing, supply chain, logistics, and Tier-One automotive clients.Sparrow’s clients include publicly traded multinationals, private equity-backed firms, and international companies operating across the U.S., Mexico, Switzerland, and Germany. David is a member of the Pinnacle Society, recognized by the California Staffing Professionals Association as Staffing Professional of the Year, and frequently speaks on recruiting best practices and production hiring. In 2022, he launched a traditional temporary staffing firm serving the El Paso, TX and Las Cruces, NM region.Connect with DavidDavid on LinkedInSparrow Company WebsiteConnect with Mark WhitbyBook a FREE 30-minute strategy call: https://recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-sessionMark on LinkedInX: @MarkWhitbyInstagram: @RecruitmentCoachFacebook: RecruitmentCoachSubscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

How do you move from being a contingency recruiter to winning retained searches consistently? And how do you scale your desk without doing it all yourself?In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, industry veteran Carol Wenom shares the exact mindset shift, client messaging, and team model that helped her make that leap and increase her billings by 70% in one year.With over 40 years in engineering and technical search, Carol built a niche-dominant practice, earned preferred partner status with top clients, and served as VP and GM at Whitaker Companies. She’s also a past president of the Pinnacle Society and Knapp’s Hall of Fame inductee. Today, she trains recruiters through The Tanbark Group.Whether you’re a solo operator or running a team, Carol’s insights will help you elevate your positioning, close more retainers, and structure your desk for long-term growth.🔑 In this episode, you’ll learn:How to educate clients on retained vs. engaged vs. contingencyThe “position prospectus” that helped Carol win exclusive searchesWhat the Rainmaker model looks like in practice (including comp splits)How to qualify searches and pitch retainers with confidenceWhen to bring on a production assistant and how to structure their roleWhy niche mastery and client relationship-building drive long-term successEpisode Outline and Highlights[02:40] With over four decades of experience in recruitment, Carol describes what has changed and what will never change. [06:45] How transitioning from contingency to retained increased Carol’s revenue based on the service level. [14:54] Promoting the retained search via several differentiators. [24:42] When and how to recommend retained vs. contingency. [31:32] Exploring fee structure options when offering a retained model. [34:59] Carol explains how she adopted the “Rainmaker” model. [40:47] Team structure and compensation model in a rainmaker model. [47:39] Carol’s niche, relationship building, and business development approach. [58:48] What is next for Carol Wenom? 👤 Guest Bio:Carol Wenom is a recruitment leader with four decades of experience in engineering and technical search for the refining and chemical industries. As VP and GM at Whitaker Companies, she was a top biller and team leader. She’s a Pinnacle Society lifetime member, Knapp’s Hall of Fame inductee, and now trains recruiters across North America through The Tanbark Group.🔗 Resources & Links:Learn more about Carol: https://www.tanbarkgroup.com/Connect with Mark & access free training: https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/🎧 Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter for more insights from top performers.💬 Found this valuable? Leave a review or share with a fellow recruiter.#RetainedSearch #RainmakerModel #RecruitmentPodcast #CarolWenom #SearchFirmGrowth #ExecutiveSearch #RecruitmentBusiness #TheResilientRecruiter #ContingencyToRetained #NicheRecruiting

What does it take to transform a 500-person staffing company and restore profitability while maintaining high engagement and renewed purpose? In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, you'll hear how one leader rebuilt culture and strengthened organizational performance through people-first leadership, without sacrificing values or authenticity.After joining the company as a trainee in 2001, Matthew Wragg eventually became CEO in 2022. In this conversation, he shares the inside story of the business transformation at Gattaca PLC: removing executive offices, tying leadership bonuses to employee engagement, and launching a new cultural framework that turns values into specific, observable behaviors. We also dive into his personal lessons from two decades in recruitment, including the wins and mistakes that shaped his approach to growth, leadership, and resilience.Episode Highlights[05:46] How Matthew got into recruitment and why he stayed with one company[14:23] From trainee to CEO: lessons in ambition and internal branding[22:00] The £30M deal they lost—and how they won it back[30:55] Using culture and values to improve employee engagement[46:01] Removing executive offices and linking pay to engagement scores[49:48] How “Changing Up the Game” became a strategic reset during COVID[52:18] Aligning the team around clear, behavioral definitions of company values[59:29] How Gattaca is thinking about AI adoptionLosing a £30M Dealand Using It to Win Future BusinessMatthew shares how Gattaca lost a £30M contract despite having the experience, pricing, and capability. The reason? They didn’t take the time to understand the client. He took responsibility, re-engaged with the customer over 12 months, and eventually won the deal back—this time at a 70% higher price.This loss prompted a shift in sales culture: more discovery, less assumption; more trust, less volume. It was a turning point in how Gattaca approached strategic selling.How Culture and Values Fueled Gattaca’s TurnaroundWhen Matthew stepped in as CEO, the company was struggling with flat growth and low engagement. His first move was to prioritize people. He eliminated glass offices to flatten hierarchy and increase visibility. He began weekly internal video updates and tied 10% of leadership compensation to employee engagement.He personally reviews hundreds of anonymous employee comments each month—starting with the negatives. Over two years, this helped shift Gattaca from 58% detractors to 58% promoters, even in a tough market.How Gattaca’s “DNA Deck” Turned Culture into PerformanceTo make values actionable, Gattaca launched a “DNA deck” that defines specific behaviors tied to each value. These are reviewed quarterly and fully integrated into performance management—alongside sales and effort metrics.One example: “Be brave enough to tell the truth, but kind enough to say it the right way.” Each principle includes examples of “what good looks like” so there’s no ambiguity. No one can top-score on performance if their behavior doesn’t align with the culture.Matthew Wragg – Bio & ContactMatthew Wragg is CEO of Gattaca PLC with 23+ years in recruitment. Starting as a trainee in 2001, he progressed through senior leadership roles before becoming CEO in 2022. He has led Gattaca through an organizational reset focused on purpose, vision, and values—prioritizing sustainable growth, employee engagement, and cultural clarity.Matthew on LinkedInGattaca PLC WebsiteGattaca on InstagramConnect with Mark WhitbyBook a FREE 30-minute strategy callMark on LinkedInInstagram | Facebook | TwitterSubscribe to The Resilient Recruiter on your favorite platform.