New Kinship

Tim Otto is a man of intentional commitments: he lives in intentional Christian community; he pastors a church in San Francisco; he’s also gay and celibate, while still affirming gay marriage (Side A). Tim talked with co-hosts TJ and David Frank about his book Oriented to Faith, compassionate approaches, “third way” communities and “disputable” theological differences, celibate partnerships, and the importance of close community living.Tim was a kind and engaging dialogue partner and we loved having this conversation with him! No matter where you land on faith and sexuality topics, we hope our discussion ministers to you also.About Our GuestTim Otto has lived in an intentional Christian community called Church of the Sojourners for 34 years and is one of its co-pastors. He has a Master of Theology degree from Duke Divinity School, is the author of Oriented to Faith: Transforming the Conflict over Gay Relationships, and loves walking around the Mission District of San Francisco, where he lives. You can find his recent writing on Substack at “Living in Extraordinary Love”: https://timotto.substack.comFor $10 off Revoice registration, use PROMO CODE: RevoicePod—Note: We use the terms “Side A” and “Side B” as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, we recommend listening to our episode #3, “A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality.” Here’s a quick summary:* "Side A" generally refers to the perspective that affirms God can bless same-sex marriage and sexual relationships.* “Side B” recognizes people experience same-sex sexual attraction and may describe that experience by a variety of words or identity terms while still holding to the historical Christian sexual ethic of marriage between a man and a woman, and sex within marriage.★ Timestamps(0:00) Intro(1:13) Tim's book: encouraging dialogue and love across sides(8:03) Idolatry of the "traditional family"(16:11) Taking a vow of celibacy as a side A gay man(21:38) Our takes: on the authority and continuity of Scripture(34:27) What traditionalist viewpoints do you find most compelling?(38:54) What has moved you toward an affirming position?(42:55) Are celibate partnerships gnostic?(52:56) What makes a healthy/acceptable marriage? (same-sex, polyamory, polygamy…)(1:07:18) How does San Francisco influence you?(1:14:24) Bonus question: the "common purse" in Tim's community—★ Links and ReferencesFor your easier searching…* Sacred Cows: Exploring Contemporary Idolatry by J.A. Walter* The Drama of Scripture: Finding Our Place in the Biblical Story by Craig Bartholemew and Michael Goheen* Kevin Vanhoozer, theologian* Tenderness: A Gay Christian’s Guide to Unlearning Rejection and Experiencing God’s Extravagant Love by Eve Tushnet* “Century of the Self” documentary is on Youtube* Theology of the Body by Pope John Paul’s—★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support!Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship | Patreon: @newkinship—★ CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. ★ Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe

Nate Collins has been part of the Christian conversation around faith and sexuality for decades. He founded Revoice, a conference and ministry for queer/same-sex-attracted Christians, and he’s written two books on the topic. Also, Nate is himself gay or same-sex-attracted and in a mixed-orientation marriage. We are looking forward to sharing Nate’s and Revoice’s story with you, and also encouraging you to attend the Revoice conference with us this summer!PS: at Revoice2024, come visit TJ and David at our workshop on (Re)discovering Kinship beyond Marriage. We would love to talk to you!For $10 off Revoice registration, use PROMO CODE: RevoicePodAbout Our GuestNate Collins is the founding president of Revoice, a ministry with a mission to support and encourage gay, bisexual, same-sex attracted, or other queer Christians—and those who love them—to live out the historic Christian doctrine of marriage and sexuality. He is the author of All But Invisible: Exploring Identity Questions at the Intersection of Faith, Gender, and Sexuality (Zondervan, 2017), as well as a forthcoming volume about sexuality in the Biblical Theology for Life series from Zondervan Academic. He has an Masters of Divinity and PhD from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Nate and his wife, Sara, live in St. Louis, MO, with their three children.—Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out Communion & Shalom episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠Timestamps(1:42) Who is Nate, apart from Revoice?(10:04) On "mixed orientation marriages”(23:18) Joining the faith & sexuality conversation over 20 years(47:40) Fruit of Revoice: Hope in flourishing, community(49:40) Aaand the Revoice conference promo code(50:26) Does Side B "mandate celibacy"?(54:57) Talking "Side X", pursuing change, new creation(1:01:14) Identity politics for ChristiansLinks and ReferencesHere are some resources or terms we mentioned in this episode, in case it’s helpful for your understanding and/or Google searching…Spiritual Friendship blog: spiritualfriendship.org/Nashville Statement: cbmw.org/nashville-statement/GCN=Gay Christian NetworkQCF=Queer Christian FellowshipExodus=Exodus International MinistriesIf you like this podcast, please consider…→ Sharing feedback or questions! communionandshalom@gmail.com→ Supporting us on Patreon! patreon.com/communionandshalom→ Following us on Instagram! @communionandshalom—CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ EspinozaAudio Engineer: Carl Swenson (www.carlswensonmusic.com)Podcast Manager: Elena Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe

How do we build communities of collaboration and care? Are our communities in the West in crisis? What are the “common objects of love” that we share, and how do we—average Christians who care—seek those out and build on them?We were delighted to talk with Jake Meador on some of these questions, which he touches on in his first book, In Search of the Common Good. Join us as we consider different angles on the practices we engage with that can change the imagination of our time.Jake Meador (jakemeador.com) is a writer, speaker, and editor from Lincoln, Nebraska. He writes about place, politics, culture, and the ways that Christian faith speaks to all of the various questions that those topics raise. He also wrote a thesis on Kwame Nkrumah, a mid-20th century Ghanaian politician. He’s the author of two books, In Search of the Common Good: Christian Fidelity in a Fractured World and What Are Christians For?: Life Together at the End of the World. He serves as the editor-in-chief at Mere Orthodoxy (mereorthodoxy.com), a contributing editor with Plough magazine, and a board member with the Davenant Institute.—★ Timestamps(0:00) Intro(02:23) A crisis of common life(10:21) Example: Declining birth rates as a social problem(19:07) Practical recs: asking for help, offering home(29:04) The historical church on property rights(34:16) Practices for communities: caught, not taught(38:22) Roots we don't choose(44:23) Identity is particular; Christianity is still bigger(47:31) Who's on the land, who's good for the land?(01:03:48) OK but we gotta talk about Kwame Nkrumah. Wild.—★ Links and References in This EpisodeYa’ll. Jake is a well-read man. We got a long list of books for your perusing pleasure (and easier searching).* Strangers in a Strange Land: Living the Catholic Faith in a Post-Christian World, Archbishop Charles J. Chaput (2017)* The Benedict Option: A Strategy for Christians in a Post-Christian Nation, Rod Dreher (2017)* Resurrecting the Idea of Christian Society, R. R. Reno (2016)* The Unwinding: An Inner History of the New America, George Packer (2014)* Out of the Ashes: Rebuilding American Culture, Anthony Esolen (2017)* Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community, Robert Putnam (2000)* Nancy Pearcey (author)* Kirkpatrick Sale (author)* Remaking the World: How 1776 Created the Post-Christian West, Andrew Wilson (2023)* Wendell Berry (author)—I don’t even know what to tell you, he’s written a lot.* Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution, Carl Trueman (2020)* Why Marx Was Right, Terry Eagleton (2018)* An Indigenous Peoples' History of the United States, Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz (2015)* Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants, Robin Wall Kimmerer (2015* Pope Francis on a “throwaway” society (article link)* John Paul II on a “culture of death” (Evangelium Vitae (1995))* The Cold War and the Color Line: American Race Relations in the Global Arena, Thomas Borstelmann (2003)And here are some additional resources or terms mentioned in this episode, not a resource, exactly, but it might make this conversation searchable/accessible to global listeners:* L’Abri is a “Christian residential study center ministry”* Several theologians, church fathers, and theorists talked about property rights: John Calvin, St. Basil of Caesarea in Cappadocia, John Locke, and Emil Brunner on “the inner infinity of God’s law”.—★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support!Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship | Patreon: @newkinship—★ CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. ★ Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe

Let’s talk about common pantry, ya’ll. Today we’re taking on the nitty gritty details of sharing food with people, usually those you live with. Why on earth does this even need to be talked about?Well, those of you in a “traditional” couple-with-children household probably already share food (often whether or not you want to). But any of you living alone or with other single roommates may find sharing food with others appalling, unappealing, or just plain impossible.Friend of the podcast Hannah Hiler is here to tell you differently! David talks with Hannah about why she advocates for sharing a common pantry with others—why it follows God’s call for sacrificial community, how it creates generous hospitality, and some details that can make it work or fail.Hannah is a graphic designer who is passionate about community and hospitality. She currently lives in a community house in South Minneapolis.—This is part of an ongoing series on The Commons. For more, check out a couple other episodes:Our first episode on Imagining the Commons, with Brendan Johnson (#30): https://open.substack.com/pub/communionshalom/p/30-imagining-the-commons-with-brendan-7eeA Workshop with David and Elena on Building Households and Communities Together (#39): https://open.substack.com/pub/communionshalom/p/39-building-households-and-communities-c53Joseph Pearce on Transformative Economics (#38): https://communionshalom.substack.com/p/38-economics-for-local-community-e78Timestamps(00:37) Introducing Hannah(03:28) Christian community=Living with others(8:14) “Common Pantry: Everything in the fridge is yours(25:18) Free beans and rice for everyone?(31:53) When you SHOULDN'T do Common Pantry(40:56) Single human seeking independence__________If you like this podcast, please consider…→ Sharing feedback or questions! www.podpage.com/communion-shalom/contact→ Supporting us on Patreon! patreon.com/communionandshalom→ Following us on Instagram! @communionandshalom—CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ EspinozaAudio Engineer: Carl Swenson (www.carlswensonmusic.com)Podcast Manager: Elena Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe

David’s friend Josh had a pretty radical experience of “healing”…Supernatural healing is always a complex topic, and with sexual attraction this continues to prove true. Does orientation change? Should we pray for it to change? Josh used to experience same-sex sexual attraction, and through some unusual events, he is also increasingly attracted to women. We offer his story as a provoking thought piece as we try to make sense of how God may work in each of our lives.Note: This episode briefly includes content suitable for adult audiences; listener discretion is advised.__________Timestamps(1:22) "An overwhelmingly positive church upbringing”(10:33) God makes a ... joke(18:42) Experiencing (bi?) attraction after healing(29:13) I don't prescribe theology, but don't write off healing(43:41) Has progressive theology ever been persuasive to you?__________Links and ReferencesSomething They Will Not Forget by Joshua Gibbs“A History of Romance in the West—Part 2 with Kathryn Mogk Wagner” - episode #19, published 12/8/2022Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out Communion & Shalom episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠__________If you like this podcast, please consider…→ Sharing feedback or questions! www.podpage.com/communion-shalom/contact→ Supporting us on Patreon! patreon.com/communionandshalom→ Following us on Instagram! @communionandshalom—CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ EspinozaAudio Engineer: Carl Swenson (www.carlswensonmusic.com)Voice Actor (Josh overdub): Carl SwensonPodcast Manager: Elena Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe

Schelli Cronk, Becky Hestness, and Kim Klayum work together at Transform MN, equipping Christian leaders across Minnesota to engage complex issues from a biblical perspective. They are also good friends who have personally and professionally been challenged over time to grow their love and care for LGBTQ friends and family. We are inspired by their deep convictions and equally deep support for LGBTQ folks. We got to hear a bit of their stories and how God’s been working through them in their communities.__________Timestamps(01:17) Introducing Transform MN(06:36) Personally/professionally, how do you arrive at this conversation?(26:29) Being good allies, good friends(37:29) Sharing truth, grace, and applying it equitably(44:27) Encouragement and caution: be in relationship with people__________Links and ReferencesTransform MN: https://transformmn.org/Grace/Truth videos from the Center for Faith, Gender, and Sexuality (Preston Sprinkle): https://ondemand.centerforfaith.com/courses/grace-truthRevoice conference: https://www.revoice.org/Laurie Krieg: https://lauriekrieg.com/TJ’s episode on covenant brotherhood: https://www.podpage.com/communion-shalom/on-covenant-brotherhood-with-special-reference-to-tjs-covenant/—This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out Communion & Shalom episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠__________If you like this podcast, please consider…→Sharing feedback or questions! www.podpage.com/communion-shalom/contact→Supporting us on Patreon! patreon.com/communionandshalom→Following us on Instagram! @communionandshalom—CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ EspinozaAudio Engineer: Carl Swenson (www.carlswensonmusic.com)Podcast Manager: Elena Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe

David Frank (you know him) and Elena (podcast manager) gave a workshop talk at Revoice 2023. It was pretty great, and also, predictably, hit-or-miss with sound quality. Enjoy!__________Links and ReferencesThe Life We’re Looking For: Reclaiming Relationship in a Technological World by Andy Crouch (publisher’s link)Our workshop presentation: [Link to Google presentation]Our worksheet and resources handout: [Link to Google doc]__________If you like this podcast, please consider…→Sharing feedback or questions! www.podpage.com/communion-shalom/contact→Supporting us on Patreon! patreon.com/communionandshalom→Following us on Instagram! @communionandshalom—CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ EspinozaAudio Engineer: Carl Swenson (www.carlswensonmusic.com)Podcast Manager: Elena Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe

Internationally acclaimed author Joseph Pearce discusses the importance of small localism and cooperatives in economics. Topics include distributing wealth, Mondragon Corporation, voting with dollars, and the risk of being too small. Delve into classic economic works and practical tips for supporting local communities through mindful spending.

Catholic canon lawyer Daniel Quinan works for the Catholic church, not the state legal system, reviewing marriage annullment cases for the Catholic Archdiocese. If you’re Catholic, maybe you’re familiar with this system. If you’re not, it may be totally new to you. We wanted to hear from Daniel on how Catholic understandings of justice, catechism, and canon law directly impact treatment of those in the church who are LGBT/queer/same-sex attracted. David and TJ talk with Daniel about marriage, procreation, contraception, sexual intercourse, and a bunch of other topics that are legal and technical and somehow still might make your grandmother blush. (Although… we don’t know your grandmother. Maybe she’d be fine.)Join us for our brief educational tour!About Our Guest:Daniel Quinan is a canon lawyer (JCL) currently working for the Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis. His public writing on LGBTQ Catholic matters is currently published on the Spiritual Friendship blog, and also in a number of canon law Advisory Opinions (available on Academia.edu). You can find him more informally on most social media platforms @masterjedi747, which is his old AIM screen name, a fact that stands as a testimony to his millennial nerd credentials.__________Timestamps(0:00:26) Daniel's background: Catholic, canon lawyer, side B(0:10:16) What is canon law?(0:20:39) The Catholic tradition on same-sex attraction or orientation(0:30:21) What is sex for?(0:40:23) Contraception and the meaning of marriage(0:44:31) Why can some people marry but not others (in the Catholic church)?(0:53:24) "Disordered" in the Catholic catechism(1:16:45) Celibate partnerships/chaste same sex unions in Catholic tradition and law(1:25:12) Perspectives on Father James Martin(1:28:20) A vision for queer people in the Catholic church__________If you like this podcast, please consider…→ Sharing feedback or questions! www.podpage.com/communion-shalom/contact→ Supporting us on Patreon! patreon.com/communionandshalom→ Following us on Instagram! @communionandshalom—CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ EspinozaAudio Engineer: Carl Swenson (www.carlswensonmusic.com)Podcast Manager: Elena Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe

Linden Hope's debut album comes from her collection of songs processing through her own journey of faith and sexuality. Please contribute love to the "Bees" by supporting her kickstarter by November 21st.https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lindseyhope/songs-for-the-bees-a-gay-womans-journey-of-faith*The "Bees" is a term of affection for the Side B community, LGBTQ/SSA followers of Jesus who pick up their cross and follow him in a traditional Christian sexual ethic through the difficult terrain of their sexualities.Additional Link:Switchfoot Has Never Let You Down - Common Good (https://commongoodmag.com/switchfoot-has-never-let-you-down/)(00:00) Intro song "Chosen" by Linden Hope(16:32) Song preview of "Wild" by Linden Hope(18:54) Kickstarter Description - ends 11/21 Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe