Sexvangelicals

This week we highlight a few of the reasons we began Sexvangelicals and what is to come in the following weeks. We will be doing a Summer Rewatch Series highlighting three of our favorite episodes, which include new content at the beginning of each episode. It is important to reflect and realize how we have grown and evolved and we want to share that with you. In this mini-episode (or trailer) we reflect on some of the reasons we started this podcast to begin with and what episodes we will be covering in the next month! Relationships and Deconstruction (6:00):  “Our focus within the sexuality and deconstruction sphere is on the relationships that have survived a church exit or the relationships that are forming for the first time without the rigid confines of the dictates of purity culture.” Jeremiah talks about their work within the sex and deconstruction sphere is centered around what happens to relationships after you leave the Church and a big portion of this podcast is dedicated to exploring that question from multiple angles.  Julia adds: “Building flourishing partnerships and sexual relationships after leaving an Evangelical Mormon or Pentecostal community, or as Jeremiah has coined, EMPish religious structures are uniquely hard work.” These organizations make it so that it is hard to leave and just jump into fulfilling relationships, and friendships, and just have a healthy sex life in general.  Deconstructing the ‘Right Way’ (6:30): “I’ve noticed that folks leaving EMPish communities put a lot of pressure on themselves to deconstruct the quote “right way” and transition smoothly to a whole new way of engaging themselves in the world.” Jeremiah notes this idea that there is only one way to deconstruct and that it is linear, clean, and simple. None of that is true and that is another motivation for this podcast, to highlight different deconstruction processes, to show that it is inherently messy in nature and that’s not a bad thing.  Positive Sex Ed (7:30): Engaging in positive and pleasurable sexuality takes time to build and develop, especially if you received sex-negative messages for years and maybe even decades of your life. Something that we talk about in our interview with Amber Wood several months ago. What happens when you haven't received good relational and sexual health education until sometime in your adulthood? So you might be for me, 27 - 30. Operating in some ways with the sexual resources of a teenager.  So that's part of what I mean when I say, oh, I was 28, but perhaps engaging with sexuality for the first time.” Julia shares how because of the system under which she grew up she was working under the sexual resources of a teenager as an adult when she left the Church. It is essential to give ourselves space and to reflect on the resources we have been given and not shame ourselves for not being “ahead” because there is no such thing, there is only our journey, our pace, and our lives. 

We are continuing our summer series called Partnership Building, where we discuss how sexual health is relational health, and relational health is sexual health. We’re talking about seven principles of healthy relationships, according to relationship experts John and Julie Gottman. Last week, Luke and Lauren from the amazing podcast Filled to Flourish talked with us about the ways that Purity Culture encourage turning toward God, and as a result, away from oneself and one’s partner. This week, they discuss the ways that they learned to turn toward each other, and the ways that protected the relationship as larger systems began to turn against them. This is a really sad, difficult episode, but also a celebration of their relationship and a source of encouragement to others who may be actively experiencing something similar. We discuss: Unconditional Positive Regard (9:00): Lauren describes, “Gottman uses this idea of unconditional positive regard. We saw each other in the best light and we knew we were doing the best we could amidst all the dysfunction unhealed trauma we were still swimming in. We had this regard for one another, and that helped us to weave this beautiful tapestry versus imploding.”  Messy Work (17:00): Jeremiah sets realistic expectations around the work of deconstruction and relational healing: “Problems tend to begin three to four years before the beginning of couples therapy Shifting and development of new interaction patterns takes a lot of time. This isn't just something that happens overnight. You walk out of the church. You leave the church, whew, thank god that's over. And then I can live and skip into a new life. There's a lot of work that happens after that and it sounds like y'all did a lot of coming back to each other, getting messy, coming back to each other, getting messy, coming back to each other. I think that that's really important to name that that's a realistic part of the process.” Turning Toward Each Other (25:00 - 29:00): There are a few horror stories throughout the episode, including the involvement of a missionary organization criticizing Luke and Lauren for not enacting traditional gender roles. Luke summarizes, “Where I think the starting of us turning towards each other and not feeling safe and saying like, babe, I'm safe with you, but I'm not sure we're safe here.” He notes that this rejection led them to turn towards each other because the Church labeled their relationship as “bad,” and when they both knew that was not the reality, they chose to be with each other and on each other sides, instead of playing the blame game.  White Saviorism (35:00): We have a side conversation about transracial adoption—Jeremiah is a transracial adoptee, and Luke and Lauren have adopted children of color. The elections of 2016 and 2020 enabled Lauren and Luke to speak out against racism and sexism, which the Church did not like. Lauren explains, “So it wasn't so much I started questioning gender roles. But what happened was my outspokenness prior to this was more of a value to a lot of folks, family included, because it was their agenda and their narrative. So I think this is the very confusing thing about outspoken women in the church.” Luke and Lauren chose to turn towards each other because the Church and their families did not agree with their ideas.  There is no Hate like Christian Love (40:00): Luke describes, “I was healing and so I started getting more of a voice and speaking out and having more conversations and being more educated. And every person that we had a conversation, invited a conversation. It became hostile, angry, and abusive. We got stuck in America for Covid. So 2020, we were in America and we ended up losing 25% of our support because we were speaking against racism and our church told us to stop talking about it or they were gonna stop supporting us 'cause we were missionaries and we represented them and they didn't agree with us. […] We didn't feel welcomed at the church anymore.” This encapsulates the Church perfectly: We love you until you don’t agree with us. Lauren expands, “We were no longer the tool that we once were. And as soon as you're not a tool in a system of power that only uses people, you are invaluable to them. Your inherent dignity and worth as a human is not a consideration. It's irrelevant and everyone thinks that they are exempt from that.” When the Church deems you not useful you no longer have a community or support or anything. They push people out who have their own thoughts and ideas.  Again, a huge thanks to Luke and Lauren for their vulnerability and wisdom. Please check out their business, Flourish Therapy. Let’s heal together!

We are continuing our summer series called Partnership Building, where we discuss how sexual health is relational health, and relational health is sexual health. We’re talking about seven principles of healthy relationships, according to relationship experts John and Julie Gottman. In the first four episodes of this series, we’ve discussed two foundations of healthy relationships: curiosity and admiration/appreciation. In the next two episodes, we’ll talk about the third principle of healthy relationships (according to the Gottman’s): turning toward each other. And we have amazing guests, Luke and Lauren Smallcomb from the brilliant podcast Filled to Flourish. Luke and Lauren are the founders of Flourish Therapy. They live in Chiang Mai, Thailand with their kids and 3 cuddly dogs. Luke and Lauren talk with us about: An Unquestioned System (6:00) The Unforgivable Sin (14:00) Eroticism (20:00) Lack of Freedom (25:00) Falling Back on Gender Roles (34:00) Good and Bad (49:00) Luke and Lauren will talk more with us next week about how to turn toward each other when your systems of origin begin to turn away from you. You won’t want to miss it!

We are continuing our series on Partnership building by comparing the messaging from a classic relationship book in Evangelical/Mormon/Pentecostal (EMPish) circles, Love and Respect, by Emerson Eggerichs, alongside the work of couples researchers John and Julie Gottman, and their principle of nurturing fondness and admiration. As we talked about last week, practicing this principle can be challenging when you've grown up learning that admiration and fondness exist along problematic gendered norms of the Love and Respect model. Julia explains, “Admiration roughly translates to respect, which women show through deference to male authority and obligatory sex based on socially conditioned standards for male pleasure, love roughly translates to affection and emotional intimacy. Which is good, but in manifestation, often coddles women dismissing their intelligence and erasing their sexuality. All under the guise of love.” We also talk about Earning Respect (12:50) God Made You This Way (18:00 / 26:00) Gendered Lines (28:40) Surviving a Gendered World (35:24) Power Dynamics (53:00) For those of you who have read Love and Respect, what are some parts of the book that stood out to you? What are you trying to unlearn. For those of you who haven’t read Love and Respect, we highly encourage you not to. Let’s heal together!

This summer, we’re talking about seven principles of healthy relationships, according to relationship experts John and Julie Gottman. In the last two weeks, we’ve discussed the foundation of healthy relationships: curiosity. And in the next two episodes, we’re talking about the practices of admiration and appreciation. Be curious. Be positive. Sounds simple enough. Except EMPish (Evangelical, Mormon, and Pentecostal) communities identify the success of the relationship not based on the ways that people solve problems together. Successful marriages happen when men and women effectively play the gender roles ascribed to them. And no Christian resource describes this better than Emerson Eggerichs’ Love and Respect: The Love She Most Desires, The Respect He Desperately Needs. In this episode, we compare the Eggerichs’ and Gottman’s processes for exploring admiration and appreciation: Parental Models (7:00): “We talked in church spaces and school spaces about being kind and grateful and positive, but I didn't see a lot of it modeled.” Young children model after their parents, and when the models do not admire each other, we tend to mirror that in our own relationships. This episode is about initially breaking that pattern. Jesus’ Admiration (10:00): “I do have a deep hole within myself that the church told me only Jesus can fill, but perhaps the church created that hole with constant legalistic scrutiny for over two decades of my life, and now I am just constantly in need of someone telling me that I'm worthwhile and valuable. That is for my own therapy.” Julia shares how the Church created this idea that the only person that can fill your heart is Jesus. This does not actually teach anyone how to do relationships, and, when coupled with the anxiety that you constantly have to ask Jesus and an erratic God into your heart, this creates a compulsive need for validation from others rooted in a fear of never being good enough. Defaulting onto Gender Norms (11:00): Jeremiah shares, “If someone doesn't overtly teach you how to do something in a relationship, the easiest thing to do is to fall back on gender expectations. For me as a man, the most important gendered message was that men are leaders. Assume that you're gonna be in charge and that people want you to be in charge.” When admiration for our partners is not taught or modeled, people can default onto gender norms as a way to show their appreciation. Appreciation then becomes about performing the gender role as opposed to celebrating the holistic person and uniqueness of the relationship. What Does Respect Actually Mean? (27:00): Julia reflects, “I remember reading that sex was one of, if not the primary way, that men feel respected. The book also reinforced that I should be well groomed, made up, and lingerie wearing for when my husband comes home from work. Because of course I'm not working and he just needs sex for his own gratification.” Jeremiah responds, “Respect communicates a power hierarchy, and adhering to the power hierarchy means men are at the top.” The idea that women are “depriving” men of sex is a toxic idea that feeds into non-consent and un-enjoyable sex and relationships. When sex is viewed as a thing to be given and taken, it stops existing as a thing occurring between consenting people, but instead as a process of conquering. We conclude the episode with Relationship 101, where Jeremiah states, “For you and I, practicing the Gottman value of nurturing fondness and admiration requires us to develop new interaction patterns that move away from gendered scripts of love and respect, and into collaborative and non-gendered dynamics based on admiration and fondness.” The Gottman’s labeled these six practices, the 6 magic hours, and Julia and Jeremiah offer advice on how to incorporate these into everyday life: 1. Partings. The Gottman suggests learning one thing that is happening in your partner's life before they leave for the workday or whatever else they may be doing. 2. Reunions. The Gottman suggests at least 20 minutes at the end of the day for a connection point that is purely for the sake of reestablishing intimacy and closeness. Julia offers, “For those of you who may be less inclined to physical touch, or need some other forms of connection before moving into a physical space. A reunion could include going out for ice cream, a short walk, or even just a curious conversation in which you take an active interest in your partner's day. Questions beyond “How was your day?” 3. Admiration and appreciation. Be explicit about what you love and value about your partner. Jeremiah shares how because of the context in which he grew up he sets reminders on his phone to text Julia appreciation and admiration, which can be helpful for those who also grew up in similar contexts. 4. Physical Touch. The Gottman suggests physical affection every day, especially before going to bed to be clear. This is not necessarily sexual affection. There will be episodes in the future tackling the topic for people who may not be comfortable with physical touch. 5. Date Night. The Gottman's encourage a two hour date night, once a week, the setting. “So do you go to a restaurant? Do you go out for a movie? The setting is less important than the process for communication and exploring deeper things about the other person.” Julia says, and then adds that though this may not be attainable weekly for many people, even monthly or bi-monthly is great, and everyone is just doing the best they can. 6. State of the Union meeting. Jeremiah explains, “Gottman encourages a one hour business meeting each week to discuss practical and logistical aspects of your relationship, such as finances. Trips, meal planning, childcare, chores, et cetera.” The state of the union keeps the administrative part of the relationship out of the romantic part of the relationship. Healthy relationships include all six of these items; this week, focus on developing two of these in your relationship with your partner. And then, for the next month, build one item a week into your relationship building. Let’s heal together!

We are continuing our summer series called Partnership Building, where we are discussing the work of John Gottman. Last week, we discussed how curiosity is the foundation for healthy, sustainable relationships. Gottman uses the term “cognitive room”—the ability to spontaneously recall details about positive qualities about their partner and their relationship. Cognitive room is fueled by curiosity, the strong desire to learn or know something. Cognitive room is something that continually develops; after all, we continually develop as humans. I'm not the same person as I was this time last year, and neither are you. In this episode, we follow an online program of multiple randomly generated questions with everything from  “Favorite sex scene from a movie?” to “What do you want your funeral to be like?” The purpose of this game is to inspire curiosity. When we spend every day with our partner, sometimes it is hard to come up with creative and intriguing questions to ask one another and this is a great starting off point for serious and not-so-serious questions. Getting the ball rolling on curiosity is the most important thing. Listen to all the fun and unique questions throughout this episode to find out Julia and Jeremiah's biggest fears and favorite concerts! Marriage Material (5:44): Julia shares, “Ideally the initial stage of a relationship development bonding happens in the first two years. And this involves people determining their common interests and values and sexual preferences, and creating experiences to explore all of those things and more. However, in the EMPish community, the bonding period gets tainted and intensified by the questions: Is this person marriage material, Am I marriage material? And are we not having sex?” EMPish communities push the idea that we have to assess if someone is “marriage material” from the onset of the relationship or that relationship is a waste of time.  Rephrasing for the Relationship (19:00): We got the question, “Is there anything I used to do that you miss?” We both did not have an answer; however, instead of getting stumped, we tailored it to your relationship. In changing the question, Julia got to hear a wonderful response from Jeremiah. These questions are building blocks and not set in stone.  Curious but Tired (27:00):  Julia says, “Being curious about anyone takes work. And I love asking you about your day. And that is something that like takes effort. That is well worth it. And I wonder if something like this is helpful for like days or nights, not just for us, but for folks who like want to be curious but like are tired.” We all care about our partner's days and lives but sometimes do not have the energy to figure out where to start the dialogue. These questions also change up the regularly scheduled programming because they open up more doors to a discussion that may have never come up. It goes back to the main idea that curious conversation keeps a relationship sustainable and enjoyable.  Playfulness (42:00): Jeremiah shares, “It’s important for this curiosity to go beyond how are you, be as specific as you can in your curiosity games like the one that we played can help jog your creative juices and ask about things that. Plus, if you get a question that feels vulnerable or touchy, you can blame it on chance if the question came up. And then you can choose whether or not you want to answer it.” These games do not have to be 100% serious; they can just be a fun activity that is a way of bonding. We bond with our partners over serious meaningful moments and conversations, but we also bond with them through jokes and laughter. Playfulness is a great way to spice up an otherwise boring night after work. Check out the free question generator on minimizemymess.com, the app from The And, and a number of other card games with curious questions. Let’s heal together!

This summer, we’re exploring the seven characteristics to healthy relationships, through John Gottman’s Sound Marital House theory of relationships. Gottman suggests that curiosity is the root of a strong foundation for a relationship. Curiosity, according to the Oxford Dictionary, is the strong desire to know or learn something. In this episode, we talk about how EMPish (Evangelical, Mormon, and Pentecostal) communities discourage curiosity, and the ways that people can learn and practice curiosity in your relationship. We discuss: Cognitive Room (11:40): Julia summarizes, “The Gottman’s suggested that the more facts that a person had about their partner, the more likely they were to understand their partner's psychological or emotional world. They noted that cognitive room is also an ongoing process. This makes sense because the things that a person likes, wants, or needs at any given moment is likely to change throughout the lifespan like sexuality and given other circumstances. Couples who are able to update the other about the cognitive room are much more likely to have a positive relationship.” Culture Inhibited Curiosity (16:00): Julia continues, “This whole culture [EMPish Christianity] inhibited curiosity. So if grace was the only way out of an otherwise terrible world, success happens by knowing a ton of facts about God and retrieving and saying those facts perfectly.” There was no room for curiosity, only room for answers that matched exactly what the authorities say. After all, in EMPish communities, when we ask questions, we may question God, and, of course, that is blasphemous. Curiosity within Religion (23:00-24:00): Jeremiah muses, “I’m thinking about this binary that's happening in religious circles, religion versus science. Science provides this decision-making process that informs curiosity. You identify a question, you develop a hypothesis, you form a process to test that hypothesis, and you observe what the results are. Now, this process can get hijacked by our own biases. Sometimes we're looking for specific things and we can miss out on more pertinent information. But this binary also assumes that religion is inherently a non-curious process.” Julia responds: “I think curiosity requires a more mystical approach to religion, which I certainly did not receive in my growing up contexts. The mystical approach assumes that life is about discovering how the world works and allowing yourself to be surprised. Curiosity requires us to see the best in people, and every person has the capacity to teach me something new, both about myself and about the world around me.” Performing Gender (28:15): Jeremiah reflects, “The strong desire to perform gender roles shuts down any dialogue in an interaction. Performing gender roles is specifically an individual task. I do my thing. You do your thing. And any conversation about how the other person is performing gender roles can really quickly move into criticisms, sexist ones at that. I would argue that this was one of the biggest ways that I contributed to the demise of my marriage.” Julia responds:  “Performing gender roles gives a person very few options for how they choose to live their lives.”  Focusing on the Destination, not the Journey (33:00): Julia shares about our relationship, “So many questions that weren't rooted in deciding whether or not you were going to be my future husband, but were rooted purely in the desire to get to know you. My genuine curiosity about getting to know my ex as a full human being was undergirded with the expectation that I needed to know as soon as possible whether this person would be my future husband” Julia talks about how her curiosity being limited in her marriage was due to the fact that she was focused on getting to know if her ex-husband would be suited to fulfill his gendered role instead of getting to know him, while with Jeremiah she focused her curiosity on getting to know him, not getting to know if he was going to be a good husband. Missing Out (42:00): Jeremiah reminisces about a high school crush, “Now we built this connection online. Hello, AOL Instant Messenger, but there was also a fair amount of sexual tension when we were in the same space. There are all sorts of reasons that I didn't actually ask her out. I didn't have a lot of self-confidence. Oh, I was afraid that she would say no. I didn't perceive myself to be particularly confident, and I thought that she was way cooler than I was. But a major factor was that I was a Christian and she wasn’t.” Religion taught him not to be curious about what lies outside the binds of Christianity.  Next week, we’ll continue with our curiosity through Gottman’s Love Maps. But until then, Let’s heal together!

In the last six months, we had a series called The Seven Deadly Sexual Sins (According to the Church), where we answered the question, “What is the sex education that the church DID want us to have?” And then we talked about the sex education we actually wish we had, centered around the six sexual health principles described by Doug Braun Harvey. And this summer, we’re talking about seven principles of healthy relationships from John and Julie Gottman in a series that we’re calling Partnership Building: Curiosity Appreciation Turning towards your partner Positivity Conflict management Negotiation of differences Finding a shared meaning" In this episode, we talk about The Four Horsemen (16:00) of unhealthy interactional patterns in a relationship: criticism, defensiveness, contempt, and stonewalling. And we close by describing how focusing on 15 minute increments can help your relationship move out of these unhealthy dynamics. We talk about: Criticism (20:00): Jeremiah explains, “Complaints are typically comments about the relational process, about the dynamic itself. Criticisms are comments about the other person's character.” Julia gives the example: “So a criticism would have been, you don't think about my needs, you're a neglectful partner or some version of that. I'm really proud that I was able to focus on the specific behaviors and interaction processes that hurt me. Rather than targeting that frustration at you as a person.” Defensiveness (29:00): Jeremiah reflects, “I noticed that I also get really defensive because more than anything in this world, I want you to be happy and I fall into the trap. A lot of thinking that my decisions interfere with or affect your happiness, that you'll be mad at me.” Julia responds, “So often we move into these four horseman types of interactions and we forget that our partner was actually trying to help us. If I perceive that you are going to misunderstand me, I can pretty quickly jump into defensiveness by also over-explaining myself and giving reasons for why I do things, even though I don't really need to do that. I wonder if that's an interactional pattern that other people might be able to relate to.” Contempt (34:00): Julia warns, “To be super blunt, a relationship cannot survive in which contempt is present on any regular basis. Criticism and contempt have some similarities and they are a bit difficult to distinguish. But ultimately the distinguishing features are one, the prevalence of criticism and defensiveness. And then two, the sense of moral superiority that comes from contempt with a true intent to harm the other person. Contempt is like criticism but on a steroid. Contempt does come with a sense of, I want you to hurt” Contempt fosters resentment and is also a means to feel superior to your partner, and when that is present a relationship cannot and will not survive.  Stonewalling (44:00): Jeremiah shares, “Stonewalling often gets shown as dismissiveness. I’m wondering if that's kind of what my ex was referring to was the ways that I would kind of space out when, either my perception of the culture of contempt got significant, or when the actual culture of contempt was happening.” Stonewalling essentially means blocking out our partner which leads to a lack of initiation in the relationship. Relationship 101 and Antidotes for the Four Horsemen (50:00): Julia describes, “Both of us have some strong leadership energy that can conflict with each other. So I made myself these little flashcards for our next meeting. So one of the flashcards says, you are the greatest source of joy in my life. And I was thinking, I'll play that card and just put it down on the table when I'm really frustrated with you so that I can move into a space of appreciation, which is the antidote for contempt.” The antidote for criticism (54:00): “What's important with criticism is to speak from your own experience using classic I statements.” Jeremiah says, when working with criticism it is important to frame our complaints through “I feel” statements rather than accusatory “You are.”  The antidote to defensiveness (57:00): “Part of the antidote to defensiveness is taking the time to understand how something impacted you before I move into sharing my intention.” Jeremiah notes it’s important to figure out where our feelings are coming from before moving into a defensive space.  The antidote to stonewalling (58:00): “The Gottman's suggests that self-soothing is the antidote, which means finding something that can give some sort of psychological and relational relief.”  Julia talks about how self-soothing (so going on a walk, reading a book, etc.) can relieve some of the frustration and avoid stonewalling. When our minds are calmed and cleared we can re-engage the emotions and conversation at hand instead of blocking our partner out.  We’re excited to share more about the Gottman’s research this summer. Sexual health is relational health, and relational health is sexual health. Let’s heal together!

Happy Pride Month from Sexvangelicals! We kick off June by talking with our new Marketing and Communications Director, Maddie Upson, about her experiences navigating queerness inside and outside of religious contexts. This is one of the most riveting conversations we’ve had about queerness on our podcast. Check out our conversations about: Jenga Pieces (14:00): Julia uses the metaphor that deconstruction is like removing pieces of a Jenga Tower; eventually, it all comes crashing down. Maddie shares, “The first time I went to a party and someone offered me alcohol, I’ve been prepared my entire life for that. The Church said like, they're gonna try to get you to do drugs and you just gotta stand strong. And they [the partygoers] were like, okay. And they just bopped off. And I was like, well, this wasn't the spiritual haggling that I had expected as they led me to believe. And I started realizing these, like non-believers were way more respectful of my decisions than most of the Christians I grew up with.” When Maddie saw that people weren’t forcing drugs on her and her Christian values weren’t being attacked, a Jenga piece was pulled out.  Capacity during Deconstruction (20:00): Julia reflects on Maddie’s story and explains how during the deconstruction process it’s understandable and normal that she did not have the capacity to explore her sexuality. “So it is such a good point that you just didn't have the capacity to engage bisexuality or queerness and that wasn't a cop-out or, any other negative thing that was just where you were at the time and all your other capacities were utilized in other ways. You didn't have anything else left for that.” Deconstruction takes up a lot of our mind's energy and space, and there is no shame in making realizations about ourselves later in life, there is no such thing as “being late.”  Hair Cutting and Patriarchy (25:00): Maddie shares, “I buzzed my head and I was like, I'm not pretty anymore. But not in a sad way, right? Like I am still attractive, I can be so many other adjectives now. That person in the mirror belongs to me.” The Church and mainstream culture seem to agree on a few things: the idea that women need long pretty hair and make-up seems to be one of them. Of course, the amount of make-up and clothing varies, but the expectations set on women by the patriarchy are harmful and limiting to our self-expression.  Labels (39:50): Jeremiah summarizes, “Queer is all-encompassing. Whereas bisexual, like still in some ways is a word that centers around the gender binary. You're either attracted to men, you're either attracted to women. Oh, you could be attracted to both. Maddie, what you're talking about that given all these different types of attraction that happen is like my levels of attraction are situational, are circumstantial.” Labels can be constricting, and not that they are bad, they’re not, but a lot of people do not fall into the gay, straight, or bisexual labels, but find themselves identifying more with the term “queer” or just sexually fluid. It’s okay to not have a label. All that matters is practicing safe and consensual sex with whomever it may be.  Coming Out (45:00): Maddie shares, “Coming out can imply that this is something really important that you need to tell people and you're gonna have some questions and you're gonna have to be ready for them, instead of just being. It also implies that the default is heterosexuality.” Coming out shouldn’t be an expectation of queer people; nobody owes anyone an explanation for their sexuality. Coming out may be meaningful and important, however, it should not be the expectation of every queer person to inform everyone in their lives that they are queer. We do not need to divulge every piece of information about ourselves, especially with sexuality, because we may be sexually fluid, and there should not be the expectation that every time we date someone of a different gender an entire announcement has to be made.  We hope you have a fantastic Pride Month, however you choose to celebrate. Let’s heal together!

We have big news! We hired a new Marketing and Communications Coordinator, Maddie Upson, and we’re excited to introduce you to her in a two part episode. In this episode, Maddie describes her experience growing up in a homeschool connected with the Evangelical Church in Arkansas, including: Fitting into the Church (8:00): Maddie explains that her church and homeschool had one major goal: to keep people (men and women) in their “godly” roles. “You are assessed at how well you can read the implicit rules and you get rewarded if you stay within those rules and you will get kind of smacked down if you’re kind of to out the line. It's really about how well you can read the room and you're rewarded for that.” Conversations about Sexuality (14:00): Maddie describes the gender roles she learned: “For men and women, the messages specifically about gender and sexuality was more about what wasn't said. It was very common to like to talk about men and boys are visual creatures. They are addicted to porn. It's on us [women] to not just enforce our purity, but theirs as well, and how we dress, how we act.” Maddie speaks about how not only did Church leadership, but parents, expected girls to be the monitors for boys' sexuality.  Anger (23:00): Julia talks about how anger can be used and geared towards justice and is not something to be demonized.“ Certainly like any emotion, people can misuse anger just like they could misuse anything. But I wish that in all spheres, in and outside of the church, we could actually be able to embrace anger for the important role that is necessary, particularly in terms of justice. And it sounds like from a very young age, you had experiences with anger that were demonized, and then eventually you got to the point in which you said, okay, no, I'm no longer going to wait for the boys to bait me.” Anger and Boundaries (25:00): Maddie explores the power of anger when someone disrespects your boundaries. “Anger's such a powerful emotion because it allows you to carve out space and hold your boundaries in a way that shame and fear can kind of incapacitate you. While there are pros and cons, anger is one of the few emotions that really, I think, shores you up and you can push it back on things. A boundary's been violated. And so I think I came to have like a really, maybe an unhealthy, but still like very strong relationship with my anger because it protected me and it would help me create space for myself when people were trying to take my breathing room.” Anger and Changing the System (33:00): Jeremiah suggests, “While anger has the capacity to bring more immediate change or at least call for immediate change to the systems that exist that aren't working…That's something that 30-somethings, 50 something struggle with. Do I change the system? And if I do change the system, what are the consequences? And do I want to deal with the consequences of that?” Maddie responds, “I think that especially for women, anger is a necessary thing. And I honestly wish in the church, more women were able to feel free, to feel angry because there's a lot to be angry about.” The church controls our bodies, our tongues, and our “purity,” so why shouldn’t we be angry? At the end of the episode, Maddie talks with us about cheese, the black market, Boston, and her love for Wonder Woman. We’re so thankful to have Maddie on our team! Let’s heal together!