Sexvangelicals

Over the last four years, we've written podcast episodes about the sex education the church didn't want you to have. One of the most threatening things for a high-control religious system is a goodbye, which results in actual transitions away from these groups that are secretive, forced, and avoidant. In this episode, we describe an intentional, proper goodbye, from the perspective of how we structure intentional final sessions with our clients. Also, this is the last official episode of Sexvangelicals. We ask these six common questions to help us reflect on our Sexvangelicals journey: Where did we start and why? What did we learn? How have we grown? What did we do well? What do we wish we had done differently? What is the unfinished work? Specifically, we talk about: Transitions (2:30): Jeremiah kicks us off, " Relationships are full of transitions, big and small, and these transitions almost always include some sort of goodbye." Opportunity to Say Goodbye (2:50): Julia adds, " Even the more mundane transitions like a schedule change or rearranging division of household labor include some sort of goodbye. You are doing something or something was a part of your life and now it's not, or it's different … give yourself and your relationship the opportunity to say goodbye." Who You Were Before the Goodbye (13:00): Julia notes, " As you are considering your own goodbye right now, take a mindfulness practice and go right back to the beginning of it. Think about what was happening in your personal, professional, and relational lives. Think about the broader community and social context. Consider who you were at the time, which is, or was probably different than you are right now." Be Kinder to Yourself (14:00): Jeremiah follows up: "Being able to give hugs to that younger version of ourselves, Being easier on the younger versions of ourselves I think is a really helpful part of the process." The Beginning of the Podcast (19:00): Jeremiah shares: " the podcast also happened in the first two years of our relationship. The first two years of a relationship is about bonding. Discovering interests and ethics that you have in common … I think Sexvangelicals became a way for us to come together and discuss a first draft of what happened to us. We trauma bonded with people other than us." Reflection (24:00): Julia shares: " Probably in this transition process, in this goodbye process, you are probably reflecting on what you learned in the context of your partnership or some other relationship, right? … I learned a lot about working together with you." Growing & The "Fuck You" Phase (28:00): Julia discusses, " The fuck you transition of deconstruction isn't as relationally helpful. We primarily decided to take off the first 50 episodes because we wanted this to have a more cohesive, professional structure, and we recognized that those episodes didn't actually reflect the maturity that we gained in the years following. And I think that talking about this is actually the most vulnerable area of growth for me to name. We weren't ready emotionally and we weren't ready practically. And that's a hard pill to swallow when that occurs in a public context." Hustle Culture (35:00): Jeremiah says, " As an entrepreneur, there's no way of fully escaping hustle culture. But I think I fell into the trap of believing that in order to be taken seriously as an entrepreneur than 21st century, you have to develop a lot of content and produce it in a particular consistent manner, as opposed to saying it takes a few years for a business owner or owners to figure out what specifically it is that they're offering, and then to develop procedural practices and then create and market specific products for the public." Ms. Frizzle (40:00): Julia shares some beloved words: " Quote, one of my favorite fictional characters. Take chances, make mistakes, get messy." Taking Chances (43:00): Julia adds: " What I can say about what we did well is that we took a chance and yeah, we did something scary and we did something new. And while there is so much that I wish we had done differently, I think it's important to note for so many of your goodbye transitions." Highlight of the Work (45:00): Jeremiah notes, " This might sound a little narcissistic as well, but I don't think that there are many people in the religious trauma or post evangelical space who are asking some of the questions that we are." Check In with Each Other (54:00): Julia says, " When building something new, create structures in which you can check in with your partner or partners throughout the process and be open to the feedback from your partner?"

Natasha Helfer, a licensed marriage and family therapist and a certified sex therapist, dives into the complex question of whether body count matters. She discusses how societal norms enforce gendered shame and the harm of quantifying sexual experiences. Natasha emphasizes the need to redefine sex beyond just intercourse, promoting solo sexuality and pleasure. She also explores the impact of religious trauma on sexual development and encourages a shift from quantity to quality in sexual relationships, focusing on ethics and mutual growth.

This summer, we're reflecting on the ten most common questions we hear from our relationship and sex therapy clients. We often hear folks talk about their sexuality in negative ways, comparing their sexuality, consumption of porn, and masturbation practices to that of addiction. We self-diagnose as sex addicts, or we diagnose our partners as sex or porn addicts. And in doing so, we eliminate the opportunity for curiosity, to learn about our fantasies, our curiosities, our erotic templates, and our hopes. In this episode, we talk with Dr. Eric Sprankle, author of DIY: The Wonderfully Weird History and Science of Masturbation, about what we miss when we rely on the language of "porn addiction": Porn & Masturbation (12:00): Jeremiah kicks us off, "One of the reasons that we wanted to start with masturbation as a way of moving into a conversation about pornography is that masturbation and porn are very commonly linked from our perspective. There's a lot of negativity around masturbation, self-pleasure that's connected with pornography." Historic Roots of Anti-Masturbation (16:00): Eric shares his research: " I didn't realize how identical that is from a historical perspective as to what's going on right now. And it's just the language that has been updated. So people are online today spouting nonsense, like masturbation causes depression. Well, 200 years ago, 250 years ago, Dr. Kellogg was saying that masturbation causes melancholy. Same thing, right? People are saying that masturbation causes acne today." It's Not The Porn (20:00): Eric explains, " Porn can definitely be a problem for people and in their lives and in their relationships. No one disputes that. But the reason it becomes a problem has more to do with the individual or the relationship that they are in than the porn itself. And that's the part that gets missed." Talking to Adolescents About Porn (23:00): Julia discusses, " We had several folks in our presentation ask about adolescents and how to talk with adolescents about explicit material, especially porn. And the conversation that Jeremiah and I had was, well, this is actually an opportunity to talk about media literacy. It destigmatizes porn because most people are engaged in media to some degree, whether that's intentional or just living in the world and looking at billboards." Dealing With Disgust (27:00): Eric says, " We certainly do not want to like over-pathologize sexual interests that don't harm anybody. We certainly don't want to institutionalize people for having kinky sexual fantasies or behaviors if it's not hurting anybody, like we have done in the past. But this idea of dealing with disgust, I think, objectively, there are a lot of sexual behaviors that are objectively disgusting. And so I think it's fine and normal. I think we can validate that emotional response of like, oh, gross." Masturbation As A Scapegoat (31:00): Julia notes, "Often objections to porn are really a scapegoat to something else. And within conservative religious groups, one of the reasons, probably among many, that masturbation is so demonized is because a person is considered sinful. If they have any kind of fantasy or desire for someone outside of a very exclusive partnership, that would be lust, that would be sinful. And then if you masturbate to whatever that fantasy is, that is even extra, extra sinful." Breaking An Agreement (36:00): Jeremiah says, " That relationally speaking … really highlighting the secrecy and that the breaking of the agreement isn't really about the porn, it's about the privacy and then also the potential ensuing attempts to hide." Privacy Not Secrecy (39:00): Eric continues, "Privacy is acknowledging that this behavior exists that I'm not necessarily a part of, but I don't need a full accounting of everything that's going on. I can have a certain degree of privacy around it. So for a relationship where porn and masturbation were allowed and private, not secret, but private, it would be like, yeah, I know my partner Masturbates, I don't really know the last time they did it." Pornhubs Rewind (42:00): Jeremiah discusses, " They start that by talking about kind of the 10 trends that we notice … and the pornhub people don't say that but if you're decently engaged in like current events, current politics, like you can make connections pretty quickly. They almost always have to do with something that is actively going on, some sort of active social trends." Porn Literacy (47:00): Eric notes, " Porn literacy is kind of like getting into like behind the scenes as to why some of these porn scenes are shot in the way that they are, or why certain body types are selected more than others to work better on film, but also to separate that. You know, it can just be fantasy. Right, and that we can be aroused by more than one type of stimulus." Diversity of Attraction (50:00): Julia says, " We're talking about media literacy, we're talking about solo sexuality, and we're talking about the diversity that we all have in being attracted to all different types of people. Just like if we go to an art museum, well, maybe we like modern art and also we like photography, and those don't have to be threatening to each other. Maybe there's actually something cool about having multiple, multiple different interests."

This summer, we're reflecting on the ten most common questions we hear from our relationship and sex therapy clients. Growing up in a high control religious space means that queer people often have to repress their sexuality, and may not come out until their late 20s, 30s, or later, which has significant impacts on sexuality and relationship development. We are thrilled to have Dr. Joe Kort, host of the Smart Sex, Smart Love podcast and author of Side Guys, to talk with us about how Evangelical, Mormon, and Pentecostal communities negatively impact the coming out process. Joe talks with us about: Shame & Self-Acceptance (6:00): Joe kicks us off, " I believe that when you tell children that they have to oppress their sexuality, erotic orientation, sexual orientation, romantic interests, and role play, and then people don't discover this until later in life because they believe as children, that I'm straight, that I'm cisgender, that I'm whatever, you know you have attractions, you know you have interests, but you're being shamed out of them." Culture Of Trauma (7:00): Julia notes, " Sometimes I'll have clients come to therapy and they will say, "Well, I grew up in this very negatively sexual religious space, but I wasn't abused by my pastor or my youth leader, or I don't have this explicit incident of trauma." However, what I hear you describing and what I and so many of my clients have experienced is that the culture around some of those religious spaces, especially around queerness, is in and of itself a culture of trauma and abuse." Coming Out Later in Life (10:00): Jeremiah discusses: "There's a 2006 study, The average age of coming out to others was 27 for women, 24 for men. So for the sake of our conversation, let's consider later in life to be after the age of 25. Even then, later in life is still a large span of time, and a person who comes out as a late 30-something millennial, let's say, may experience different psychological and social reactions compared to a Gen Z or a boomer who comes out." Building Community (14:00): Joe shares, " I might say to them to get online and build community, do it anonymously if you can do that so that you don't have to worry about your identity or that you'll be outed prematurely … Get out there and go to the centers, go to the affirmative places. Really get an understanding of all the different types of ways to manifest being not straight." Losing Privilege (18:00): Jeremiah notes, " You're holding onto all of the secrets, the manifestations of shame. You have the loss of heterosexual privilege that you experience when you come out later in life." Making Up For Lost Time (20:00): Julia discusses, "Jeremiah and I have noticed that when folks have grown up in a community that demonizes queer sexuality, and then they come out later in life, whatever that later is, they've experienced some sort of developmental loss. They didn't get to explore the way that other 15, 16, 21-year-olds did, and so they might be 35 and to have an advanced degree and have met other significant developmental milestones. But then they're in these relationships trying to catch up doing the work that some 13-year-olds have done." Stages of Coming Out (23:00): Joe says: " There's stages of coming out. I show it to them, stage five of coming out, and help them. Because they'll even think they might be a sex addict. And the religious community likes to put that label on them, right? … It's like a teenager. If you tell 'em to stop, they're not gonna stop … But I help them see that this isn't gonna last, but that they're going to meet some disappointment during that time. They'll have lots of pleasure, but they're gonna meet some disappointment too." Grief (26:00): Julia notes, " Some of the grief that a formerly religious person might have is, "Oh, well. I don't get to be seen as my full authentic self." Now on one hand, the straight presenting relationship might protect them from some oppression, and they still might feel a certain sense of closetedness." Client Questions (29:00): Joe shares, " You're gonna have to start from scratch, right? You're gonna have to do your own sex education … Can you strengthen yourself to recognize that when you say certain things, being an open marriage, non heteronormative interests, like can you tolerate the fact that people are gonna wanna judge you? And if you're gonna have a reaction to the trauma of being judged from your religion?" Misunderstanding Kink (32:00): Joe discusses, " We have really good research now that show there's no more or less trauma in somebody who's not kinky. So I point them right to the research and then even if it is from trauma, and I tell my trauma clients. All over the board, you can go from trauma reenactment and trauma repetition to trauma play." Finding an Affirmative Therapist (37:00): Joe continues, "An affirmative therapist isn't gonna say alternative lifestyle, right? Because for me, straight life is an alternative lifestyle. We're not gonna use the term homosexual because homosexual is only used by anti-gay religious zealots who say there's nothing gay about being a homosexual." "Side" & Grindr (39:00): Joe shares his proudest career moment: " Side is mine. Nobody taught me that side was just me coming out as a guy who doesn't like intercourse and only likes outer course. And the reason it became popular is I became brave about it at gay men's workshops in the two thousands … Then I wrote about it on Huffington Post in 2013 … it caught the attention of people at Grindr and then somebody said, I wanna start a Facebook group … then Grindr people, we got their attention … And then one day I woke up my name was everywhere, and it was attributed to side" Substack, Lisa Diamond, & Sexual Fluidity (43:00): Jeremiah shares the research, " In the subset article we reflected on, I think Lisa Diamond has like four different processes by which sexual fluidity commonly happens and, and talks about the importance of context situational, getting back to what you were talking about regarding, erotic attraction and the circumstances and situations that might derive that." Finding Humor in the Serious (44:00): Julia highlights Joe's social media impact: " I wonder, even for folks who are listening who are unsure how to connect with their values, they can go to your social media, you ask a lot of amazing questions. Yeah. And you also have some good playful content because sexual health can be pretty serious, and yeah. It is serious for a reason. We also need some giggles along the way, and Joe, you provide that."

This summer, we're reflecting on the ten most common questions we hear from our relationship and sex therapy clients. In the last few years, we've increasingly heard couples asking about play parties, sex parties, cuddle parties, and the like. Opportunities to practice touch, sexuality, and play in intentional spaces. We are thrilled to have Ally Iseman, founder of Passport2Pleasure, as our guest. Ally helps couples and communities organize play spaces, establish clear expectations for what happens at play events, and explore their own sexual styles and preferences in the process. Ally talks with us about: It's All Okay (7:00): Ally kicks us off, " We're gonna look for the next question. Every question is gonna lead to another question. This conversation is not about answers. We're looking to understand why, where the curiosity is, where the fears are, and the landscape of that. So I have a good understanding of where they're coming from and the most important part of that is regardless of what comes up … It's all okay." Healing Words (7:30): Julia adds: " Having someone tell me that I am okay. Coming from the background that I had was just healing in and of itself." About the How (9:00): Jeremiah notes: " We talk a lot about how relationship therapy is much more about the how. How two or more people decide to make arrangements and agreements, rather than the what, rather than the final destination. And I love the idea of curiosity as a driving value for building that with folks." Defining Sex Positive (13:00): Ally defines, " Sex positive space acknowledges that sex is a perfectly natural part of life. It's something we can talk about, explore, educate ourselves about. Just like any other topic." Play Party/Sex Club (14:00): Ally explains: " The crowd that you're generally in are people who have an elevated awareness of their own desires, their boundaries. They're able to communicate that they're aware of, you know, your body language and how you're coming across. It's just a heightened level of awareness." No Expectations (17:00): Julia says, " I'm glad that you gave the piece of advice around going for the first time without expectations, because when I've talked about this with my clients. Sometimes they have the assumption that going means some sort of participation. It isn't obvious to folks who might not know. The expectation is not there." Knowing How to Say No (19:00): Ally notes, " So really practicing honesty. These spaces are actually really great ways to practice saying no. And that just impacts every area of your life. Knowing how to say that, owning how to say no, and knowing that it's not, there's nothing wrong. " Sitting with Assumptions (20:00): Jeremiah checks in: " Check in and really think about what are the assumptions that you had about sex clubs and about play spaces coming into this." Aftercare (29:00): Ally discusses: Look at it like a nerd like us. Break it down. What are the elements at play? What can I learn from this? And first and foremost, above all else, know that it is okay and totally common to have that (overstimulation) experience no matter how long you've been in this space." Play Party & Inspiration (32:00): Ally notes "Really getting that inspiration again, coming from curiosity, knowing there's no wrong answer here. It's just new information like art." Opening up (34:00): Ally says, " When you're looking to open up, you don't even know what that means. So you might think you wanna open up to include other people in your relationship, but you might just wanna open up more authentically to each other. Learning about this will help you not only figure out which one of those it is, but how to do that."

This spring, Julia and Jeremiah are answering ten of the most common questions they hear from clients, exvangelicals, and the larger cultural zeitgeist. One of the most common questions is "What if I want to have sex with other people?" In this episode, Julia and Jeremiah are joined by Becs Waite and Jimmy Bridges from the practice This Space Between to talk about factors, considerations, and first steps for those interested in opening up their relationship. High Control Religions & Anxiety (8:00): Julia says, " I imagine that your excitement is really helpful when you work with couples, especially when anxiety could be high. Because for so many people, especially from high-control religious backgrounds, this is an overwhelming topic and often overwhelming in a way that can be really scary. And I think excitement and hope from your therapist could be a good." Spectrum of Options (11:00): Jeremiah notes, "One of the common concerns from church leaders was, "Our church members wanna talk about polyamory." And polyamory is one specific way of doing an open relationship, but there's also 15, 20 other types of ways that one can do an open relationship. And so one of the things that's important to start a conversation is recognizing that the spectrum of options is vast and wonder if we can start by defining some terms." Non-Monogamy as an Identity (14:00): Jimmy shares, "Non-monogamy can be painted as this lifestyle and that's something you do, you physically act out. And for some that works and that makes sense. And for others, it's a lot more nuanced, a lot more core to identity and paradigm and philosophy than just like, I'm trying this out for this summer because I got time." Tolerance (20:00): Becs explains, " I'm assessing for clarity first and foremost, wanting to see if each partner has clarity about why it is important to them, but also seeing if there's clarity, if each partner understands why it's important to their partner. That gives me a good sense of where they're at and being able to tolerate those differences. Because when we have that tolerance, we are able to consider a different perspective without feeling like our own experience is being threatened. Dismissing Myths (27:00): Becs says, "Compersion is fantasy. I mean, it's wonderful when it happens, but you know that's not accessible for all people and it's not accessible all the time. It is like a very binary way of thinking about our emotional experiences. Like either it's gonna be this "terrible thing"--jealousy--or it's gonna be this wondrous thing, and it's like what happened to everything in between and why is that now not considered and not, if it is considered, it's not good enough." Jealousy (28:00): Julia shares, " I'm even thinking about experiences that I've had of jealousy with Jeremiah … And when I've sat down and thought about, oh, what does this jealousy mean for me? And I have needed to sit with jealousy in order to access personal and relational growth. And certainly that happens around sexuality and additional relationships." Confidence (32:00): Becs offers, " If a couple is well supported, they're going to feel a lot more confident, a lot more grounded. They're gonna find more ease in tolerating those differences than a couple that is doing this in isolation. And so therapy is great, coaching is great, and also more is needed. So building that community and often folks are really excited to get on dating apps to find new partners. And I also encourage folks to think about using dating apps and other avenues of connecting for the purpose of building community." Being Realistic (37:00): Jeremiah says, " Part of prepping for it is also recognizing the natural limitations in our lives. That, you know for instance for me, I would like to conceptualize oh, sure, I'd like an open relationship. That seems like a great idea. I also know that I can really only focus on like one or two relationships at a time." Love Running Out (42:00): Jimmy adds, "What you all have just spoken to is the logistical side of like, how much love can go around. But if I think about that, bell hooks talked about this in one of her books. I'm paraphrasing the kind of concept, but love is as love does that love is not just this like amorphous thing, this idea, it's like a practice. And in that sense, yeah, mine has its limitations. And the myth that there is love does run out, but we don't necessarily think of it in this way when we think about kids. Like parents to their kids. That their love decreases for every child that comes into their family." Reality Television (44:00): Julia discusses, "That's one of the themes that comes up in certain reality dating show contests. But reality TV isn't value neutral. It reinforces all kinds of social and cultural narratives. And one of the ones that I noticed coming up so often was, how can you have feelings or how can you love … multiple people we're different." Polyamory & Parenting (45:00): Becs brings up a common myth, "One thing that Jimmy and their co-parent have done really well … but in regards to this was really in a developmentally appropriate way, inviting [Jimmy's child] into understanding that relationships can look so many different ways. And her experience of polyamory is unique. I don't think a lot of nine year olds get this experience, but it has been really normalized for her. And that's not to say she doesn't have questions that come up that are challenging as all kids do, but this doesn't feel threatening or incongruent or hard for her." Logistics (50:00): Jimmy discusses his principles of an agreement conversation, " The first is, is slowing it down. Slowing down the process, slowing down the conversation. Two is getting thorough and that means engaging with the meaning of why this agreement, this specific agreement is being asked for. Is it logistical, is it safety? Does it reflect a history like that?" Holding Nuance (58:00): Becs notes, " I think that is what I want to invite to anyone who's listening to this, who's considering opening up. I think if you can hold onto nuance, which includes our ability to experiment, our ability to hold compassion for ourselves and others, that is the resource I would want you to have is the ability to hold nuance."

This spring, we are answering ten of the most common questions that we hear as sex therapists. This week, we're exploring the question, "What do I need to consider when I have sex for the first time?" We created six different scenarios that a person might have for the first time: A general first time sexual experience, and considering what you disclose (and don't disclose) ahead of time. Oral sex and stimulating another person's clitoris or penis A same-sex sexual experience. Anal sex. A sexual experience that involves vaginal penetration Group sex. And we've invited the amazing Erica Smith to help us process these six scenarios. Erica is the founder of Purity Culture Droput. Check out these gems from our conversation with Erica: Short List (9:00): Erica kicks us off with her shortlist of tips for folks diving into new sexual experiences, " Number one is an authentic desire to have sex … Do you want to have sex? Are you doing it because you feel like it's now time, or because your friends are pressuring you or because a partner's pressuring you?" Making Up For Lost Time (12:00): Julia notes, " I would caution you if it's motivated by. Only a desire to make up for last time versus an authentic desire for that type of sexual experience. Maybe ask some more questions of yourself to ensure that this is a good fit for you." Disclaimers (14:00): Erica shares, " I like to ask people, so why do you want your partner to know these things? And then to examine that. So if you are telling them, 'Hey, I was raised pretty religious and I don't have a lot of experience,' if you're telling them that because you feel like you need to come with a warning label, like there's this is bad about me, I'm giving you the disclaimer." Myth of Disclosing Baggage (16:00): Jeremiah says, " There's such a myth that I have to disclose either my dirty baggage, the disclaimers you talked about, or I have to prove to you why I'm worth having sex based on how many times I've had sex before … or those types of things as a way to try to market myself to market my sexuality as opposed to … what's the information that I wanna share? And then also being honest about what might be the purpose of a sexual experience at this particular time." Engaging with a New Culture (21:00): Julia says, " the lesbian community in Boston is different than the lesbian community in Minneapolis … So that means if someone is having a new sexual experience for the first time, especially if they're coming out as queer for the first time they're also engaging a new culture." Navigating Sexuality (23:00): Erica points out, " A little more context for these guys that I've talked to, they're seeing Grindr as you mentioned … there's other websites or other apps that very specifically are about hooking up with like the nearest hot person. And then in a lot of gay male culture, there's also stereotypes about how young and hot and ripped you have to be … So there can be an overwhelming thing to navigate for anyone, let alone someone who is coming from such a deeply sex negative environment." Reducing Sexuality to One Body Part (26:00 - 28:00): Jeremiah, Erica, and Julia all discuss, "I also want to recognize that one of the greatest sources of shame for men, especially in an evangelical Mormon and Pentecostal cultures, is the male asshole." Jeremiah says, followed by Erica: " Penetrative anal sex is elevated as the way that gay men have sex, and so I think it's important to provide some education that like that is not true of everybody. There are so many different ways to have sex when you have two bodies with penises together." Julia adds: " So dehumanizing to reduce someone to one specific body part, whatever that body part is." Protection (32:00): Erica highlights, " We're on the verge of a terrifying public health crisis, and so I wanna be so clear that bottoming during anal sex is actually the highest risk sexual activity we can participate in terms of HIV and STI risk. And that's not to stop anyone from doing it, but it's to say, please protect yourself." Misconceptions about Experience (36:00): Erica notes, "You are not actually sexually inexperienced if you've shared that you're doing these other things. And I hope that that can be a liberating thing to think about. You know, it's not that you haven't done anything. You've had lots of wonderful sexual experiences. You're just talking about a different item off the menu." The Hymen (40:00): Erica says, " The hymen is a very misunderstood body part … Some hymens wear away with time and age, and sometimes you might be ready for your sexual debut and you might not have a hymen. And that's okay … and bleeding isn't a sign of anything bad. You do not need to bleed upon your first penetration." Group Sex & Uncomfortable Feelings (45:00): Julia says, " When I'm talking with clients who are having, let's say, group sex for the first time, or opening the relationship for the first time … I'll often really gently warn clients that you might have unexpected thoughts and feelings come up that could be distressing because this is new for you and that's normal." Continuing the Conversation (49:00): Jeremiah adds, " if you can create systems within the relationships that you're doing this to be able to process the things that you'd wanna do differently next time. The re-engagement with the limits that we just set. Is that something that works? Should we do this again? Do you wanna do this again? The capacity to continue to return o the agreements that you make." Sex Doesn't Have to be Perfect (51:00): Erica says, " Not every sexual experience you have is gonna knock it out of the park. Nothing does. Like not every meal you cook is great. Not every time that you engage in your favorite hobby is the best thing you've ever done. It's like sometimes it just is a little disappointing and it's okay." Healing Differs (53:00): Erica notes, " In order to be healing from purity culture harm. I mean, sometimes people are like, I just wanna have a better orgasm with my husband of 25 years. And that's liberation for them and I love that for other people. They are going to kink events and sex parties and I hope that that is what is truly the best for them. But we are all so different."

Join sex educator Erica Smith, founder of Purity Culture Dropout, as she unpacks the nuances of achieving that elusive first orgasm. Erica guides listeners through understanding anatomy, particularly the power of the clitoris, while advocating for a relaxed approach to intimacy. They tackle common misconceptions around female pleasure and emphasize the importance of self-exploration and masturbation, breaking down societal taboos. This engaging discussion celebrates diverse paths to sexual enjoyment, making pleasure a liberating journey for all.

This spring, Julia and Jeremiah are answering ten of the most common questions they hear from clients, exvangelicals, and the larger cultural zeitgeist. One of the most common questions is "What happens if sex hurts?" In this episode, Julia and Jeremiah are joined by Dr. Camden Morgante (@drcamden on Instagram), author of the new book Recovering from Purity Culture. They reflect on how to address and reduce the physical and emotional pain that a repressive situation or larger culture, such as Purity Culture, might bring to a sexual experience. Join them for a practical, empathetic conversation about: Why Psychology (6:45): Camden kicks us off, " I went to Christian college, grew up at the height of purity culture. I saw the effects on my clients, realized some of the effects in myself that I didn't know were caused by purity culture. But being able to put those pieces together, I really wanted to just offer what I had learned as a psychologist to others because I felt like I brought a different perspective than some of the other professionals." Catching up to Purity Culture (9:00): Julia notes, " Also in the field of psychology, especially sex therapy, in which we operate, We haven't quite caught up to what purity culture actually has meant for the sexual and relational lives of a generation of folks, both who grew up in conservative Christian spaces, or who might not have grown up in conservative Christian spaces." Purity Culture & Trauma (11:00): Camden says, " I conceptualize purity culture as a form of trauma for many people. It causes a trauma response in our bodies for many people." Manifestations of Trauma (15:00): Camden notes, " I think vaginismus and sexual pain disorders are a very overt manifestation of that trauma response because the vaginal walls are clenching involuntarily, literally clenching and pulling away and avoiding." Normalization of Pain (19:00): Jeremiah discusses, " There's also this really interesting relationship with pain. There's an expectation of pain, right? A normalization of pain that also exists in the divorce of the mind body split" "Dealing With it" (21:00): Camden highlights, "Gendered expectations, like "the woman needs to just grin and bear it and give her husband sex. Your experience doesn't really matter. Your pleasure doesn't really matter. It's all about him getting a release." Divorcing the notion of work (23:00): Jeremiah notes, " Coming back to something isn't something that has to be painful. Coming back to something is investing, putting effort into something. Work, so to speak. How can we also divorce that from the physical pain that often gets attributed to work, especially in like capitalistic kind of post-industrial types of ways of thinking about production" Contained Trauma (25:00): Julia discusses, "It exists in a container, so to speak, and we can do some very targeted therapy around that. However, when we're thinking about the cumulative or complex trauma of purity culture, we don't have a container around it." Sitting with Grief (31:00): Camden says, " A lot of it is allowing yourself to hold space for those emotions to give a voice to them and to validate them for yourself instead of judging them or pushing them away. There's so much theology of spiritually bypassing difficult and painful emotions and just pray about it and be happy and things like that. And instead like being able to really sit with the disappointment and the grief." Overwhelming Emotions (35:00): Julia shares, "All of our emotions could just like all be in the room right now. But let's hold onto this emotion, talk with it, spend some time with it. And I found that to be helpful too in the like onslaught that can happen when grief is present related or unrelated to purity culture or sexuality." Doing the Work (40:00): Camden talks about, " It often feels like with any trauma work: Three steps forward, two steps back kind of thing. And I also tell people like a deep tissue massage, you are not always gonna feel good when you leave therapy. You know, it may be a little bit painful to extract the shrapnel." Freedom & Fear (46:00): Camden ends us off, " Moving away from that, it is so much more spacious and expansive and so much more freedom. But that can also feel really scary."

Join a lively discussion about the balance between planned and spontaneous sex. Discover how intentionality can enhance intimacy and satisfaction. The hosts explore the cultural influences shaping sexual expectations and the importance of open communication. They delve into ageism, vulnerability, and the dynamics of sexual satisfaction. By challenging norms around spontaneity, they promote a healthier understanding of sexual experiences, encouraging partners to celebrate connection over performance.