
The Ongoing Transformation
The Ongoing Transformation is a biweekly podcast featuring conversations about science, technology, policy, and society. We talk with interesting thinkers—leading researchers, artists, policymakers, social theorists, and other luminaries—about the ways new knowledge transforms our world.
This podcast is presented by Issues in Science and Technology, a journal published by Arizona State University and the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. Visit issues.org and contact us at podcast@issues.org.
Latest episodes

Jan 30, 2024 • 28min
Zach Pirtle Explores Ethics for Mars Landings
NASA's ethics for Mars landings and living in space, Zach Pirtle's journey from engineering to space ethics, importance of science policy in agencies, challenges of balancing safety and scientific goals, cultural considerations in space activities, and ethical dilemmas in space exploration.

Jan 10, 2024 • 31min
Turning a Policy Idea Into a Pilot Project
Erica Fuchs shares the journey of her policy idea becoming a pilot project, collaborating with academia, industry, and government contributors. The podcast explores the need for a national technology strategy, better data and analytics, and the importance of asking the right questions to optimize resource allocation. It also discusses building support for a national technology strategy and the attractiveness of a stand-up capacity for target technologies. Additionally, they delve into the process of turning a policy idea into legislation and finding another opportunity through the National Science Foundation.

Dec 12, 2023 • 30min
Science Policy IRL: Apurva Dave Builds Connections Between National Security and Climate
Apurva Dave, climate policy expert at the National Academies of Sciences, explores the intersection of climate change and national security. He discusses the complexities of science and policy, the objectives of the Climate Security Roundtable, his day-to-day responsibilities, and his unconventional journey to his current role.

Nov 28, 2023 • 31min
A Venture Capitalist for Better Science
Stuart Buck, a venture capitalist for better science, discusses how to make reforms in science more efficient and accountable. He explores the role of metascience in fueling reform and the need to assess scientific reforms. The podcast also delves into improving science infrastructure, the influence of evidence-based policy and medicine on better science, and the challenges of measuring scientific progress and implementing changes in science funding.

Nov 14, 2023 • 31min
Science Policy IRL: Quinn Spadola Develops Nanotechnology With Soft Power
Since 1984, Issues in Science and Technology has been a journal for science policy—a space to discuss how to best use science for the benefit of society. But what is science policy, exactly? Our new podcast series, Science Policy IRL, explores what science policy is and how it gets done. “Science” is often caricatured as a lone person in a lab, but the work of science is supported by a community of people who engineer its funding, goals, coordination, and dissemination. They include people in legislative offices, federal agencies, national labs, universities, the National Academies, industry, and think tanks—not to mention interest groups and lobbyists. In this series, we will explore the work of science policy by speaking to people who have built careers in it.
For the first episode in this series, host Lisa Margonelli is joined by Quinn Spadola, the deputy director of the National Nanotechnology Coordination Office, a unique office that coordinates the development of nanotechnology across the entire federal government. Spadola, who has a Ph.D. in physics from Arizona State University, now uses “soft power” to bring groups together to coordinate their efforts so that taxpayers get the most from their investments in science. In practice, she brings all of her life experiences to bear on the task of shaping technology so that it benefits society.
Is there something about science policy you’d like us to explore? Let us know by emailing us at podcast@issues.org, or by tagging us on social media using the hashtag #SciencePolicyIRL.
Resources
On science policy:
- Harvey Brooks, “Knowledge and Action: The Dilemma of Science Policy in the ’70s,” Daedalus 102, no. 2 (Spring 1973): 125–143.
- Deborah D. Stine “Science and Technology Policymaking: A Primer,” Congressional Research Service, RL34454 (May 27, 2009).
On nanotechnology:
- The website of the National Nanotechnology Coordination Office.
- National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, A Quadrennial Review of the National Nanotechnology Initiative: Nanoscience, Applications, and Commercialization (Washington, DC: The National Academies Press, 2020), https://doi.org/10.17226/25729.

Oct 31, 2023 • 27min
Sustaining Science for the Future of Ukraine
After Russia invaded Ukraine, hundreds of scientists fled the country and hundreds more remained behind. Those scientists who stayed are trying to continue their research and engage with the global scientific community under often difficult circumstances, with the ultimate goal of being able to help rebuild Ukraine when the war ends.
Since the early days of the war, Vaughan Turekian, the director of the Policy and Global Affairs Division of the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, has been leading efforts to support Ukrainian scientists and their research, enlisting the help of international science academies and philanthropic partners. Turekian has spent much of his career in science diplomacy. Before joining the Academies, he served as the fifth science and technology advisor to US Secretary of State John Kerry and was also the founding director of the Center for Science Diplomacy at the American Association for the Advancement of Science.
In this episode, recorded on October 5, Turekian joins host Molly Galvin to discuss efforts to support Ukrainian scientists and why such efforts are important for the future of Ukraine.
Resources
National Academies, “Supporting Ukraine’s Scientists, Engineers, and Health Care Workers.”
Interview with the president of the Polish Academy of Sciences, Jerzy Duszyński, “What I’m Mostly Afraid of Is That There Will Be Two Sciences—Democratic Science and Autocratic Science,” (Issues, Summer 2022).
Daniel Armanios, Jonas Skovrup Christensen, and Andriy Tymoshenko, “What Ukraine can Teach the World About Resilience and Civil Engineering” (Issues, Fall 2023).

Oct 10, 2023 • 31min
The Complicated Legacy of the Green Revolution
This podcast explores the complicated legacy of the Green Revolution and Norman Borlaug's work. It discusses the transformation of agriculture, the unintended consequences of the Green Revolution in India, and the drawbacks of wide adaptation in agriculture. The episode emphasizes the need for a more nuanced approach to agricultural development and research.

Sep 26, 2023 • 31min
Open Science: Moving from Possible to Expected to Required
The podcast explores the movement of scientific ideals towards reality, with a focus on open science. It discusses the motivations and challenges behind open science, the importance of replication and transparent practices in research, the need for diversity and customized solutions, and the advancements in open science and research assessment in the next 10 years.

Sep 5, 2023 • 40min
Blue Dreams: Connecting People With Ocean Research
There is more life in the ocean than anywhere else on Earth. Accounting for over 70% of the planet’s surface, the ocean provides habitat to millions of species, supplies freshwater and oxygen, moderates the climate, and influences the weather. But despite its importance, the ocean is largely unexplored and often misunderstood.
There is growing interest in how art can help people connect with ocean research. The National Academy of Sciences is hosting an immersive video installation called Blue Dreams by Rebecca Rutstein and the Ocean Memory Project. Inspired by the vast microbial networks in the deep sea, the installation is the product of a collaboration between an artist and four scientists. From abstract imagery to stunning undersea video footage and computer modeling, Blue Dreams offers a glimpse into the interconnections and resilience of microbes, our planet’s smallest yet most vital living systems.
In this episode, host Alana Quinn is joined by artist Rebecca Rutstein and one of her collaborators, the oceanographer Mandy Joye, to discuss their work and the rich potential of partnerships between artists and scientists to create visceral connections to the deep sea.
Resources
Register for the DC Art Science Evening Rendezvous at the National Academy of Sciences building in Washington, DC, on September 7, 2023, to meet Rebecca Rutstein, Mandy Joye, and their collaborators Jody Deming and Tom Skalak.
Download the Blue Dreams catalog to learn more about the immersive video installation on view through September 15, 2023, at the NAS building, 2101 Constitution Avenue NW, Washington, DC.
Visit Rebecca Rutstein’s website to learn more about her artistic practice. Watch her Blue Dreams video here.
Visit the Joye Research Group website to learn more about Mandy Joye’s research.

Aug 1, 2023 • 20min
Secretary Ernest Moniz on the Diplomatic Role of “Cumulative” Science
Over the last 40 years, US and Chinese scientists at all levels have been engaged in broad-based diplomacy, publishing hundreds of thousands of scientific papers together. Recently, amid tensions between the two countries and official and unofficial government actions to curtail collaboration, joint publications have fallen. Ernest Moniz, Secretary of Energy during the Obama administration, has been a practitioner of science diplomacy at the highest levels. Trained as a physicist, Moniz worked with his Iranian counterpart, Ali Salehi, on the Iran nuclear agreement in 2015.
In this episode, Moniz talks about the ways that science can provide a common language and a sense of trust during diplomatic negotiations. And he emphasizes the importance of collaboration to scientific discovery. Science, he says, is cumulative, extending far beyond the experience of a single person. If collaborations are prevented, we will never know what knowledge we failed to create.
Moniz is president and CEO of the Energy Futures Initiative and CEO and co-chair of the Nuclear Threat Initiative. He served as the thirteenth US Secretary of Energy from 2013 to January 2017. He is also the Cecil and Ida Green Professor of Physics and Engineering Systems emeritus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
Resources
E. William Colglazier, “The Precarious Balance Between Research Openness and Security,” Issues in Science and Technology 39, no. 3 (Spring 2023): 87–91.
Sylvia Schwaag Serger, Cong Cao, Caroline S. Wagner, Xabier Goenaga, and Koen Jonkers, “What Do China’s Scientific Ambitions Mean for Science and the World?” Issues in Science and Technology (April 5, 2021).
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