Sustain

Guest Lisa Caywood Panelists Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re very excited for our guest today! Joining us is Lisa Caywood, who’s the Senior Principal Community Architect at Red Hat OSPO, and has a podcast about cheese, which we’ll learn a little more about. Today, our discussion revolves around managing open source communities, determining their strategic value, and gracefully ending relationships when necessary. We’ll also hear about telco industry’s shift towards open source code, and the importance of community health and strategic alignment with Red Hat’s objectives in deciding whether to continue investing in a particular community. Also, there’s a discussion on the challenges of managing relationships between corporations and open source projects. Download this episode to hear much more! [00:01:32] Lisa shares that Red Hat’s OSPO focuses on outbound open source engagement, ensuring healthy and well-governed communities, and advising on engagement strategies. She tells us what a Senior Principal Community Architect does. [00:04:04] Lisa emphasizes the importance of community health and strategic alignment with Red Hat’s objectives in deciding whether to continue investing in a particular community. [00:05:59] The discussion revolves around managing open source communities. [00:08:15] We hear the challenges of parting ways with communities, and Lisa offers insights into managing both individual and corporate transitions. [00:15:06] Lisa explains the challenges of managing relationships between corporations and open source projects. [00:17:30] One key issue is how to communicate with project leaders about sponsorship or support, which requires a nuanced approached. [00:19:37] Networking and telco are discussed as examples of industries where open source communities play a crucial role. Lisa touches on the need for projects to address interoperability pain points and ensure the different pieces of the stack are able to talk to each other in a cohesive way. [00:22:31] Lisa discusses the telco industry’s shift towards open source code, with AT&T leading the way bringing a big chunk of their proprietary project into the open source world, and she mentions the ONAP project. [00:27:02] The scale of projects and problems being tackled in the telco industry is talked about since it’s so exciting to Lisa, who has always been a big-picture person. [00:31:30] Lisa talks about when leaving a community, it’s important to document and take the knowledge and mindset shift towards open source with you to the next community. [00:32:37] Find out about Lisa’s podcast and where you can follow her on the web, Quotes [00:07:13] “The individual has to decide it’s time to leave, but the company also to decide it’s time to leave. Those are two different levels of how to say goodbye.” [00:09:39] “If you’re an individual who’s coming to the project leadership with a proposal or a plan for how you hand things off to other people, is the best thing you can do.” [00:16:06] “It’s more how do I address the feeling and continue to make the sale. That’s a different personality and different skillset.” [00:20:02] “It took a long time for Kubernetes to understand that there’s a little wire on a diagram that connects your apps and that helps different components talk to each other and that’s called the network. You need to include networking people in your community to make this all work and it eventually got there.” [00:21:44] “The number one thing that keep telcos awake at night is I can’t have anything break. The conversations that we have with these companies span many different communities because we’re not talking about one single type of technology.” [00:23:49] “We’re all moving towards the same basic model. We’re all going to be doing 80% of this stuff, so let’s figure it out together.” [00:26:02] “The scale of Chinese telcos dwarfs AT&T in terms of number of users.” [00:30:56] “As a software person in a hardware company, you’re always the odd duck out.” [00:32:05] “It’s important not just as individuals, but as a company to be conscious of what you’ve learned in a community, perhaps documented that these are the useful things that we got from working in this community. Let’s make sure we take that with us into our next community so we can take the best things forward.” Spotlight [00:34:03] Amanda’s spotlight is a research paper, Name-based demographic inference and the unequal distribution of misrecognition (2023). [00:34:56] Richard’s spotlight is the Master and Commander series. [00:35:21] Lisa’s spotlight is Christina Warinner, who looked at gut microbiomes of nomadic herds in Mongolia, which helps from a cheesemaking perspective. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Amanda Casari Twitter Lisa Caywood Twitter Red Hat Into the Curdverse Podcast Into the Curdverse Twitter ONAP Name-based demographic inference and the unequal distribution of misrecognition Master and Commander by Patrick O’Brian What Bacterial Cultures Reveal About Ours by Virginia Gewin Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Lisa Caywood.Support Sustain

Guests Russell Keith-Magee | Uriel Ofir Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. Our first guest is Dr. Russell Keith-Magee, who’s the Founder of the BeeWare Project and Software Engineer at Anaconda working on BeeWare in the OSS team. Russell talks about starting the project, the challenges of transitioning from an author to a maintainer, and the role of Anaconda in the Python ecosystem. Then we’ll have a conversation with our next guest, Uriel Ofir, who’s the Founder and Manager of Ma’akaf, an open source Israel community. Uriel tells us all about Ma’akaf, the importance of members being serious and proactive in contributing to the community, and how they encourage participants to contribute and improve their skills through an “open source party.” Hit download to hear much more! Russell: [00:01:40] Russell explains his role at Anaconda and being the Founder of the BeeWare Project. [00:03:43] The role of Anaconda in the Python ecosystem and the company’s open source offerings is discussed. [00:04:15] Russell discusses the process of starting the BeeWare project. [00:08:03] We hear about the funding problem in open source and how development is something that needs to be looked at. [00:10:15] He tells us the challenges of transitioning from an author to maintainer. [00:11:51] What’s hard for Russell as a maintainer? He mentions struggling when you don’t see progress and the difficulties of finding maintainers with the necessary skillset. [00:14:35] There’s been a lot of effort trying to document the onboarding process and making it smoother for new contributors. [00:15:21] Russell’s excited about the prospect of iOS and Android becoming officially supported platforms in C Python and the progress they’ve made after nine years of work. [00:16:28] Find out where you can follow Russell and read about his work on the web. Uriel: [00:18:23] Our next guest, Uriel Ofir, joins us and he tells us about Ma’akaf. [00:22:28] He explains the community currently has around 350 members and four active projects. [00:26:09] He started the community even after he got a job and manages it by delegating tasks and empowering members to take responsibility for projects, and he emphasizes the importance of members being serious and proactive in contributing to the company. [00:29:48] Uriel shares how they encourage participants who may be hesitant to contribute to their open source community by hosting an “open source party” where everyone is welcome to introduce themselves and ask for help or advice. [00:31:43] Uriel tells us where people can join this group and follow him on the web. Quotes Russell: [00:02:08] “The Python ecosystem is only successful because of the open source component of it.” [00:06:51] “I made some challenge coins that we would give out to anyone who made a contribution.” [00:08:22] “Open source has a funding problem. There are big problems that don’t get solved unless you have someone working on them full-time.” [00:11:22] “Having to create the project was an inconvenience before I can get to the point of having other work on it with me.” [00:11:29] “Open source really is a community. The whole thing is built around people working together for a greater good.” [00:15:05] “The more you can remove every possible obstacle to someone getting that first contribution, the more likely they are to contribute, not necessarily more likely to hang around long term.” Uriel: [00:28:33] “The most important thing about open source is to be serious.” [00:32:07] “I really want people to contact me around the world because this idea is scalable, and I would be happy to help you with that.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Richard Littauer Mastodon Russell Keith-Magee Mastodon BeeWare BeeWare GitHub Sustain Podcast-Episode 64: Travis Oliphant and Russell Pekrul on NumPy, Anaconda, and giving back with FairOSS Uriel Ofir Twitter Uriel Ofir GitHub Uriel Ofir LinkedIn International OS Party Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Russell Keith-Magee and Uriel Ofir.Support Sustain

Guest Serkan Holat Panelists Richard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorn Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Richard and Leslie are hosting today, and they’re very excited to welcome our special guest, Serkan Holat, who’s a Freelance Software Developer, with over 20 years of experience in researching finance, open source ecosystems, and digital public goods. He advocates for financing open source software with public money and setting up dedicated public funds called Agile Public Funds. Today, we’ll discuss with Serkan, the need to allocate funds to support and publish critical open source software, the importance of sustainability on open source software, and the lack of understanding of the industry’s risk profile. Also, Serkan gives us all the details on an experiment he recently started to increase awareness about using public money to finance open source. Download this episode to hear much more! [00:01:47] We start off with Serkan telling us how the tax cause is going. He proposes introducing an open source tax on proprietary software sales, with the revenue going to public funds for distribution to the open source ecosystem. [00:06:11] Serkan explains how he’s watched the space grow, and he talks about the Digital Public Goods Alliance that recognizes open source software as a new type of digital public good, and the Sovereign Tech Fund. [00:08:35] Serkan tells us why there shouldn’t be any obligations on the developers and what we should do. [00:10:23] We hear Serkan’s thoughts on the Sovereign Tech Fund in Germany, an excellent initiative that he supports as a blueprint for other nations to follow, but scalability will become an issue. [00:12:39] Free Software Foundation Europe has a fantastic campaign. Serkan’s explains the idea of using public sector collaboration. [00:13:56] There’s a discussion on the challenges of implementing public sector collaboration and there’s a suggestion of creating a social contract to increase funding for open source software. [00:16:43] What’s wrong with the market we currently have? Serkan elaborates on this. [00:20:19] The conversation shifts to Richard, Leslie, and Serkan touching on the role of security in financing open source software, they discuss the allocations of funds to support and publish open source software, the need for sustainability in open source software, and the lack of understanding of the industry’s risk profile. [00:28:41] Serkan shares his thoughts on how he’s trying to convince software companies to produce open source software. [00:30:31] Richard wonders how a tax on proprietary software to help out open source communities, is going to lead to a more equitable environment, or all people building open source software. [00:32:45] Serkan advocates for the creation of public funds to finance the open source ecosystem, and he’s been experimenting with this approach for the past 15 months. He chooses three projects from Open Collective each month and distributes money based on their criticality score. [00:34:11] Find out where you can follow Serkan and all his writings on the web. Quotes [00:02:51] “My proposal on that area is to introduce an open source software tax on proprietor software sales.” Spotlight [00:37:13] Leslie’s spotlight is the Chaos Computer Club. [00:38:22] Richard’s spotlight is the Feminist Bird Club, Northern Vermont chapter. [00:39:04] Serkan’s spotlight is an announcement made by Minister Alexandra van Huffelen, at the EU Open Source Policy Summit 2023. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Leslie Hawthorn Twitter Serkan Holat Twitter Serkan Holat LinkedIn Serkan Holat Mastodon Roads and Bridges: The Unseen Labor Behind Our Digital Infrastructure by Nadia Eghbal Digital Public Goods Alliance Sovereign Tech Fund Open Source Project Criticality Score-GitHub Open source public fund experiment by Serkan Holat Ecosyste.ms If it’s public money, make it public code!-FOSDEM’23 Public Money? Public Code! Free Software Foundation Europe Switch to open source alternatives in Munich Chaos Computer Club Northern Vermont Feminist Bird Club- Instagram Dutch Digitalisation Minister announces creation of an OSPO Ministerial Address: Alexandra van Huffelen (YouTube) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Serkan Holat.Support Sustain

Guests Bob Killen | Navendu Pottekkat Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about what their experience is of maintainership and open source. Today, we’re very excited to have two guests joining us. Our first guest is Bob Killen, who’s a Program Manager at Google, serves the Kubernetes project as a Steering Committee member and chair of the Contributor Experience Special Interest Group. Bob talks about the mentoring cohort approach the Kubernetes community has, the importance of titles, and the value of a defined contributor ladder to recognize and motivate contributors. Our next guest is Navendu Pottekkat, who’s a Maintainer of Apache APISIX, the Cloud Native API Gateway. Navendu tells us about his experience in contributing to building, scaling, and maintaining open source projects, his involvement in mentorship programs, and the importance of people focusing on balancing the code with the community aspect. Download this episode now to hear much more! Bob: [00:02:00] Bob’s role at Google encourages him to contribute and to be active in the Kubernetes community and being part of the OSPO, where he’s focused on maintaining the overall health of the project and keeping track of various services. [00:03:02] He’s been in the open source space since mid-2000s and was already working on Kubernetes before joining Google. [00:04:16] We hear about the Contributor Experience Special Interest Group, what Bob does there, and the mentoring cohort approach the Kubernetes community has to help grow people into maintainer roles. [00:07:56] Since Kubernetes avoids private Slack channels, Bob explains how he asks questions in an open place. [00:08:45] Bob finds it challenging to maintain his role in special interest groups while working full-time, as there is always an endless backlog of issues and prioritizing and triaging can be difficult. [00:09:45] What keeps Bob working there? Well, he enjoys the people he works with and going to KubeCon events has helped him connect with so many people. [00:11:45] Something Bob is looking forward to doing is stepping down from some of his leadership roles and mentoring others to replace him. [00:13:15] Bob shares some advice to his potential replacement, and he discusses the importance of titles in helping people understand the time investment and leadership responsibilities of being a maintainer. [00:16:12] He explains the value of a defined contributor ladder to recognize and motivate contributors. [00:16:50] Find out where you can read more about Bob and his work on the web. Navendu: [00:19:29] Our next guest is Navendu, and he tells us about APISIX. [00:21:03] Navendu talks about how he got involved in open source and how he mentors students and new developers who are interested in building stuff in the cloud. Also, he tells us about being a part of the Linux Foundation mentorship program. [00:23:35] We hear about Navendu’s involvement in mentorship programs like Google Summer of Code and the Linux Foundation mentorship program. [00:25:30] There’s a discussion on the importance of stipends for students and how mentorship is an important aspect of open source projects. [00:26:42] Navendu mentions that it’s easy to convince him company and the APISIX community about the importance of mentorship and community in open source. [00:28:24] What’s hard about open source for Navendu? He mentions that working on open source projects can be overwhelming especially when there are always issues that need to be addressed and pull requests that need to be reviewed. [00:30:11] We hear some tips for people to step up to take of the community, and Navendu encourages users and community members to get involved. [00:32:20] Find out where you can learn more about Navendu and APISIX online. Quotes Quote from Bob: [00:14:23] “That title winds up being a much bigger thing because it’s easier to explain than hey, I’m a lead of this.” Quotes from Navendu: [00:23:11] “Being online 24/7 is taking a toll on my health and is not sustainable.” [00:26:52] “There is always some aspect of mentorship when you’re working on open source projects.” [00:29:46] “If you have people focus on community it helps.” [00:30:41] “At some point, some maintainers have to step up and take care of the community.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Richard Littauer Mastodon Bob Killen Website Bob Killen Twitter Bob Killen Mastodon KubeCon 2023 North America KubeCon 2023 China Navendu Pottekkat Website Apache APISIX Apache APISIX-How to Contribute Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Bob Killen and Navendu Pottekkat.Support Sustain

Guests Nick Vidal | Masae Shida Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is roaming the halls at FOSS Backstage 2023 this week, and you just never know who you’re going to bump into. He grabs Nick Vidal, the new Community Manager for ClearlyDefined, which is an open-source project that aims to bring clarity to licensing information for open-source projects. Nick is trying to reach out to different communities to work together, such as OpenSSF and Open Research Toolkit. Nick and Richard discuss the licensing issues related to AI, particularly regarding chatbot models like ChatGPT. They talk about copyright issues related to gathering data, images, and texts from the internet and feeding them into proprietary models. His next guest is Masae Shida, a Senior Program Manager at VMware. Masae is in Berlin to talk about why Asian participation in open source is not as significant as it should be. She talks about how Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) are important for companies as they lead to higher productivity and innovation. However, in open source, she has noticed that the number of Asian participants is much lower than expected, even though there are large populations in Asian countries like India and China. Masae aims to identify the barriers preventing Asian participation in open source and find ways to overcome them. Download this episode now! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Nick Vidal Twitter ClearlyDefined Open Source Initiative Open Source Initiative Mastodon Masae Shida LinkedIn VMware VMware Twitter Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Masae Shida and Nick Vidal.Support Sustain

Guests Sarah Boyce | David Blass Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing actual maintainers of open source code to talk about what they do, how they like it, and what they need to keep going. Today, we’re very excited to have two guests joining us. Our first guest is Sarah Boyce, who’s a Backend Developer at CheMondis and member of Django’s review and triage team. She talks about her role, her contributions to Django, her experiences on the review and triage team, and shares advice for those contemplating becoming a maintainer. Our second guest is David Blass, who’s a full-time JavaScript open source developer and Founder of ArkType, which is a TypeScript validation system. David discusses community feedback, improvements in the new release, the potential monetization of the project, and the TypeScript market and potential for growth of ArkType. Press download to hear more! Sarah: [00:01:13] Sarah tells us about her work with Django, ways it overlaps with her work at CheMondis, and her journey doing open source work and getting involved in Django. [00:03:04] Sarah talks about her contributions to Django and the Python ecosystem, as well as her experiences being on the triage and review team. [00:04:35] We hear about the supportive and friendly community of Django. [00:07:07] Despite being unpaid, Sarah explains how her open source work has helped her gain personal and professional benefits. [00:09:54] We learn how Sarah manages her time effectively with all the extra volunteer work, badminton, painting, and work. [00:11:34] Why Django? Sarah fills us in on why Django was interesting to her. [00:12:26] Sarah tells us what she’s looking forward to, such as meeting other contributors and maintainers of Django. [00:13:26] The hardest thing for Sarah was the anxiety around doing the first jump and raising the first PR. Also, dealing with people who disagree and get contentious can be challenging. [00:15:09] Her advice to someone contemplating becoming a maintainer is to do some research first, double-check that the repository has a code of conduct, and check the vibe of the conversation before jumping in. [00:16:59] Find out where you can follow Sarah on the web. David: [00:19:07] Joining us now is David Blass. He tells us about ArkType, which is a validator for runtime data that mirrors TypeScript’s syntax for defining types. [00:20:50] David explains TypeScript and how it offers a developer experience. [00:24:51] We learn about David’s passion with ArkType and his community of contributors. [00:26:50] David discusses the funding model, how he’s looking for VC funding and is open to other funding models that allow the project to continue as a purely open source project if that’s viable. [00:27:52] David has another core maintainer that work with him, and he tells us what he does. [00:29:10] ArkType is still at the alpha stage and has not been broadly adopted in production yet, but David plans to make a push in the next couple of months. [00:32:26] What is the goal of ArkType? [00:34:09] Richard and David discuss the TypeScript market and the potential for growth of ArkType. [00:35:58] David shares some final thoughts about the potential monetization of the project, such as using the validation system for instrumented code that checks code that checks code execution for validity and suggests that investors could contact him if interested. [00:37:34] Find out where you can follow David on the web. Quotes Sarah: [00:05:26] “Everything we do is very much in the open and we want to keep it as much in the open as possible, so we don’t have a group of people who have access to information that other people don’t have access to.” [00:11:39] “Django found me; I didn’t find Django.” [00:15:25] “Before you make your first PR, double check that they have a Code of Conduct. It’s a good sign if it is there.” [00:15:46] “[Before contributing], I would look on a couple of the issues or PR’s and check the vibe of the conversation.” David: [00:21:37] “The more you scale a project the more important it is to have static types and clean interfaces.” [00:26:10] “Just to have people who are so deeply engaged with what you’re doing and invested has been such a rewarding thing for me.” [00:26:23] “It’s one thing to know that something’s theoretically important, but it’s another to just have the day-to-day sustenance and engagement you need to feel like you can give it your all.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Sarah Boyce LinkedIn Sarah Boyce GitHub CheMondis Django DjangoCon Europe 2023 David Blass LinkedIn David Blass GitHub David Blass Twitter David Blass Email ArkType ArkType GitHub TypeScript Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: David Blass and Sarah Boyce.Support Sustain

Guests Chris Baker | Stephen Jacobs Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman | Abby Cabunoc Mayes Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, we are excited to have as our guests, Chris Baker and Stephen Jacobs, who work at RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology). Chris is the Assistant Director for the Open@RIT Program Office, and Stephen is a Professor at RIT and the Founder of Open@RIT. Our conversations today focus on how academia is trying to integrate open source into traditional academic practices, and how OSPO’s are creating standards and best practices. Stephen and Chris also discuss how to help students deal with diverse incentives in open source and academia, the importance of role diversity in software development, and Stephen advocates for policy change to recognize the value of open work and to give credit to those who do it. Download this episode to hear more! [00:01:39] Chris fills us in on Open RIT where they’re working to build open community and foster collaboration in the open space. [00:03:19] Stephen tells us about RIT having an open source department that teaches open source classes, offers an academic minor, and has an experiential education program. [00:07:50] Abby wonders if OSPO’s are creating more career pathways, and Stephen explains they hope to create more opportunities in open source work in the future. [00:10:19] We hear about The Boyer’s model of scholarship, and a classification system of four types of scholarship, and Stephen mentions the classic “Einstein Eureka” model being one of many, and he brings up Open Work Definition that RIT and a couple of other collaborators put out. [00:15:06] Stephen talks about The Sloan Foundation and why they’re so interested in the research space of open source. [00:17:37] Open@RIT was founded by Stephen, Chris is the Assistant Director, and Mike Nolan is the Associate Director, and we’ll hear about their responsibilities. [00:19:03] Chris explains how he’s helping students deal with diverse incentives in open source and academia, and Stephen adds there’s a need for educating on open science practices. [00:23:45] Stephen believes that policy need to change to recognize the value of open work and to give credit to those who do it. He also discusses the importance of role diversity in software development and how it can lead to more DEIA friendly projects. [00:27:10] What successful alumni came out of the Open@RIT? How about Justin Flory Jenn Kotler, and our very own Django Skorupa. [00:29:29] Chris and Stephen talk about other avenues they’re pursuing to help teach open work outside of the university, and the FOSSY conference is mentioned. [00:33:59] Find out where you can learn more about Open work at RIT and where you can follow Chris and Stephen on the web. Quotes [00:04:25] “We became the second university with an OSPO.” [00:19:42] “We’re taking students given their backgrounds, whether it be full-stack developers, or graphic design, and using that to produce the structure for open work inside of research.” Spotlight [00:36:49] Justin’s spotlight is the 988 Crisis Lifeline. [00:37:23 Abby’s spotlight is GitHub + Slack Integration open source project. [00:37:45] Richard’s spotlight is getyourshittogether.org and Brain Donor Project. [00:38:28] Stephen’s spotlight is Software Freedom Conservancy FOSSY Conf. [00:38:55] Chris’s spotlight is the young ladies in rural high schools who are standing up to passive and aggressive sexism. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Justin Dorfman Twitter Abby Cabunoc Mayes Twitter Stephen Jacobs LinkedIn Stephen Jacobs RIT Chris Baker LinkedIn Chris Baker RIT Open@RIT Rochester Institute of Technology Boyer’s model of scholarship Open Work Definition Alfred P. Sloan Foundation-Technology The Journal of Open Source Software Sustain Podcast- Episodes featuring Mike Nolan Sustain Podcast-Episodes featuring Justin W. Flory Sustain Open Source Design-Episode 27: Jenn Kotler on Astronomical Sonification and Designing UX for Science & Open Data 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline GitHub + Slack Integration Get Your Shit Together Brain Donor Project Software Freedom Conservancy-FOSSY Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Chris Baker and Stephen Jacobs.Support Sustain

Guests Smera Goel | Dotan Horovits Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2023 that is held in Berlin every year. Today, Richard has two guests joining him. He meets up with Smera Goel who was featured on Episode 3 of our Sustain Open Source Design Podcast. Richard catches up with her and what has been going on the past year and a half. Smera is a Product Designer and an Outreachy Mentor for Fedora. She is also the Mentor Project Representative for Fedora, in charge of looking after the participation of Fedora in different mentorship programs such as Outreachy and Google Summer of Code. Smera works for a startup in Berlin that has some open-source offerings, and she got her job from an open-source design job board. Richard and Smera discuss mentoring mentors and mentees in the context of software sustainability. Richard’s next guest is Dotan Horovits, who’s the Principal Developer Advocate at Logz.io. and he tells us about his own podcast called "OpenObservability Talks." He explains the dominance of closed-source vendors in the observability space, which has led to a siloed and vendor-locked situation. They also discuss how observability is important for cloud-based web applications and large production systems and how open-source projects should have an open door to the CNCF and how collaborations between different foundations can be beneficial. Download this episode to hear more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Smera Goel Website Smera Goel LinkedIn Fedora Sustain Open Source Design Podcast-Episode 3-Smera Goel on Designing in the Fedora Project, Outreachy, and India Dotan Horovits LinkedIn Dotan Horovits Twitter OpenObservability Talks Podcast Logz.io OpenObservability Talks on the podcast apps OpenObservability Talks on YouTube (videocast) Is “vendor owned open source” an oxymoron? Open Source for Better Observability Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Dotan Horovits and Smera Goel.Support Sustain

Guest Dawn Wages Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. Today, Richard is very excited to have as his guest, Dawn Wages, who’s the Python Community Advocate at Microsoft, Core Team Member for Wagtail, DjangoCon Organizer, and Director and Treasurer for the Python Software Foundation. We’ll hear Dawn’s journey into how she got involved with the PSF and as a Python Community Advocate at Microsoft, she explains how to become a PSF member, as well as the benefits, since they’ve made some changes recently. She explains where she falls on the ethical source divide and dives into the AntiRacist Ethical Source License, which is her niche. Also, she shares advice on how communities can be more sustainable at navigating conflict in their communities and reveals that we should lead with empathy. If you’re looking at going to a conference this year, there’s some great DjangoCon’s and a PyCon going on that are worth checking out. Hit download now to hear more! [00:03:31] We hear how Dawn got involved with the PSF and how she became the Python Community Advocate at Microsoft. [00:05:23] Dawn shares why foundations in the open source space seem to continually have this community voting way of entering into the board, if she thinks it’s healthy, and if she thought about it when she was working on Django’s new process. [00:08:27] Both dollars and time are things which are often barriers to entry for DEI, so how does that help diversity, equity, and inclusion versus how it hurts it? Also, we hear about Wagtail and Torchbox and what they do. [00:11:40] Dawn mentioned that the PSF lowered the dollar amount and Open Collective, so now we hear the benefits it gives to an individual to become a member of the PSF, if that’s something people should think about if they’re working in Python, and if it’s possible to join on behalf of the project and not their company. [00:13:30] We hear about a tool called, Fiscal Sponsoree, with the PSF. [00:14:50] Dawn fills us in on DjangoCon 2023, the financing structure for keeping Django going, how they think about sustainability in their community, and DjangoCon Africa 2023. [00:16:51] What does a sponsored chair do? [00:19:04] Richard wonders how Dawn thinks about the return on investment for her ultimate strategy, why these conferences, and what’s the ultimate narrative arc for her seventh season open source Bajor story. Also, she explains why she’s the treasurer. [00:22:56] Richard explains what the Ethical Source Movement is and wonders how Dawn holds the tension and where she falls on the ethical source divide. [00:24:37] We hear Richard’s opinion on one of the problems with open source requiring a huge layout of upfront investment in hours and time and no guarantee that it will pay off, and the work being detrimental to mental health of people working on it. Dawn talks about the Anti-Racist License and explains the “PIES” check-in. [00:28:12] Dawn shares advice on how to help communities be more sustainable at navigating trauma and conflict in their communities without it becoming a drain on resources. [00:31:00] Listen here for a list of conferences you should go to that are Python and Django and where you can follow Dawn on the web. Quotes [00:08:58] “Open source is not accessible for everyone, and it’s not a great method for everyone. It is people who have support elsewhere somehow.” [00:26:34] “I think there are tools we can use to be able to acknowledge the humanity of the individuals contributing, and being flexible and thoughtful about the goals we are trying to meet as a collective, and the goals the individual is trying to contribute or try to receive.” Spotlight [00:33:21] Richard’s spotlight is his friend, Danielle Garber, who’s a personal coach and makes amazing hand woven things. [00:34:08] Dawn’s spotlight is Jeff Triplett, Director of PSF, and Coraline Ada Ehmke, lead organizer for the Organization for Ethical Source. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter Dawn Wages Twitter Dawn Wages Website Dawn Wages Mastodon Python Software Foundation At The Root DjangoCon 2023 (Durham, North Carolina) DjangoCon 2023 (Edinburgh, Scotland) DjangoCon Africa 2023 ( Zanzibar, Tanzania) PyCon 2023 (Salt Lake City, Utah) Sustain Podcast-Episode 75: Deb Nicholson on the OSI, the future of open source, and SeaGL Wagtail Torchbox Fiscal Sponsorees AntiRacist Ethical Source License Every Thread Handwoven (Danielle Garber) Jeff Triplett Website Coraline Ada Ehmke Website Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Dawn Wages.Support Sustain

Guest Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at the FOSS Backstage 2023 that is held in Berlin every year. Today, Richard speaks with Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz, CEO of Kaleidos, and creator of Penpot and Taiga. The episode focuses on open-source design and how open-source products can be successful. They discuss how Kaleidos started as a consultancy company, but eventually became a full open-source products company. They also talk about the benefits and risks of focusing entirely on open-source products, as well as the importance of beauty and art in technology. Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz has been in open source since 1996 and witnessed Spain's huge trend in open source. Download this episode now to hear more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz Website Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz Twitter Kaleidos Taiga penpot Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz.Support Sustain