Sustain

Guest Karthik Ram Panelists Richard Littauer | Abby Cabunoc Mayes Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. In this episode, Richard and Abby are joined by guest Karthik Ram, a research scientist at UC Berkeley’s Institute for Data Science and Berkeley Initiative for Global Change Biology, as well as co-founder and director of the rOpenSci Project, and lead at URSSI. Karthik’s journey from field ecologist to data scientist has propelled him into roles that advocate for sustainable scientific software and open science. He currently manages projects, fundraises, and mentors while also overseeing initiatives aimed at developing best practices in software development, advocating for supporting policy, building user and developer communities. He emphasizes the significance of reproducibility and sustainability in research software and offers an empowering approach to maintaining academic software. Hit download to hear much more! [00:02:00] Karthik explains what he does as a senior data scientist, and he tells us that he views himself as an “engineering manager” rather than an individual contributor. [00:03:01] His transition from a field ecologist to a data scientist was triggered by handling large amounts of data and developing software to work with it. [00:06:21] The conversation turns to the JOSS, the Journal of Open Source Science, and Karthik shares the origin story for the software review process. [00:09:03] Karthik dives into the UC Berkeley’s Science Institute, he tells us how it started, and what his role was there. [00:11:11] Karthik’s involved with the URSSI, where they aim to collect and disseminate best practices in software development, advocate for supporting policy at a national level, and grow user and develop communities around their projects. [00:12:55] One of the projects coming up in the fall for URSSI is they’re going to run a school for research software engineering. [00:15:16] Karthik and Kyle assembled a course focusing on the best practices for developing sustainable research software by drawing on topics from past workshops and classes they’ve conducted. [00:17:12] We hear about the commonalities between scientific software sustainability versus normal open source software sustainability, and Karthik explains that scientific software sustainability is unique because it caters to niche groups, making it expensive to build and maintain. [00:20:20] Karthik tells us about a project he’s working on with Patrice Lopez and James Howison, to identify what tools researchers use in various domains, how their usage evolves over time, and which clusters of tools drive research in certain areas. [00:23:34] As part of this project, Karthik and his team are using a tool called, GROBID, to process structured documents to XML, extract entities, and analyze the usage of software mentioned in scientific papers. [00:28:23] Karthik highlights the difficulties researchers face in keeping with best practices for code hosting and archival copies and discusses the misconceptions about GitHub being a permanent archive and the need for a safer, more reliable repository like Zenodo. [00:31:31] Richard brings up the issue of measuring the impact of code repositories and whether a similar system to academic journal impact factors could arise. [00:33:02] Karthik details an approach for maintaining academic software. [00:38:02] Find out where you can learn more about Karthik and his work on the web. Quotes [00:07:43] “They would bring their puppy and ask us to adopt it.” [00:15:45] “Even today, we do not have a good appreciation for research software and the role that it plays in driving research on all the things that we care about.” [00:16:21] “Another pet peeve that I have is that people think money is the solution to everything.” [00:16:38] “If we teach more projects about best practices, it’s very likely that software that integrates those best practices will actually continue to exist.” [00:17:51] “The challenge with research software is there’s a lot of software that sits on the long tail.” [00:28:39] “I think the challenge is that we don’t really need to invent anything new.” [00:36:14] “Part of the work we want people to do is invest community early on.” Spotlight [00:38:47] Abby’s spotlight is Governing Open by Shauna Gordon-McKeon. [00:39:15] Richard’s spotlight is Bertram Ludäscher and William Michener. [00:39:43] Karthik’s spotlight is Patrice Lopez. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Twitter Richard Littauer Mastodon Abby Cabunoc Mayes Twitter Karthik Ram Website Karthik Ram Twitter Karthik Ram GitHub Karthik Ram LinkedIn rOpenSci The Journal of Open Source Software Arfon Smith-Chatops-Driven Publishing DJ Patil Berkeley Institute for Data Science URSSI (US Research Software Sustainability Institute) Software carpentry Report from the URSSI Winter School pilot Kyle E. Niemeyer, Ph.D. Science-miner GROBID James Howison-Associate Professor Issuing a persistent identifier for your repository with Zenodo-GitHub Docs Governance of Open Source Software by Shauna Gordon-McKeon Bertram Ludäscher William Michener Patrice Lopez Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Karthik Ram.Support Sustain

Guests Yan Minagawa | Christian Paul Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is at FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin, where he has two guests joining him, Yan Minagawa and Christian Paul, from the Matrix Project. Today, they talk about what the Matrix Project is. The project has 80 million users and around 10,000 home servers. We also learn that Christian works on developing bridges for the Matrix project, and Yan is part of the team and works as a Solution Architect, specifically in the public sector in Germany. Also, Yan and Christian are involved in organizing meetups and podcasts about the Matrix. Download this episode now to find out more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Yan Minagawa LinkedIn Yan Minagawa Email Christian Paul Website Christian Paul Mastodon Matrix Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Christian Paul and Yan Minagawa.Support Sustain

Guest Daniel Stenberg Panelists Richard Littauer | Leslie Hawthorne Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. On this episode, Richard and Leslie are super excited to have as their guest, Daniel Stenberg, Lead Developer of the cURL project. Today, Daniel shares his journey of how he got involved with cURL, its development over the years, the community behind it, and funding the development. Our conversation also touches on the upcoming release of cURL, the future of cURL, Daniel’s desire to grow the project, the benefits of people to collaborate with and provide support, and the role of cURL in the broader landscape of internet protocols and digital infrastructure. Press download to hear more! [00:01:24] Daniel shares the story of how he became involved with the cURL project. [00:03:55] We hear about the community behind cURL and the number of maintainers involved. He mentions having over 1,100 commit authors in the current repository. [00:05:29] The discussion shifts to funding cURL’s development. He tells us for the first twenty one years he had it as a spare time project while having a separate job. [00:06:28] He explains the challenge monetizing a free software project but emphasizes the value he provides to customers in terms of support and expertise. [00:08:40] Leslie raises the topic of Daniel’s positive and generous attitude despite giving away free software and not always receiving equal support in return. He explains as long as he has enough customers to sustain his work, he remains calm and relaxed. [00:11:46] Daniel discusses the development of his mindset and how he acquired a positive outlook over the past 25 years. He attributes his confidence to proven success, test cases that validate code functionality, and feedback form the large install base of cURL. [00:12:45] Richard asks Daniel about his plans for the future of cURL, and Daniel expresses a desire to expand the team and highlights the benefits of having additional people to collaborate with and provide support. [00:13:56] Leslie takes the opportunity to promote wolfSSL, the company Daniel collaborates with to support cURLS’s growth and provide services to more users, and he explains why he’s working with wolfSSL. [00:17:02] Richard raises the topic funding individual maintainers with the broader open source ecosystem, and Daniel acknowledges that his support contract model might not work for all projects, as it requires a certain project size, importance, and ecosystem. [00:19:04] Security issues, particularly zero-day exploit is brought up, and Daniel emphasizes the significance of security and mentions that maintaining cURL involves devoting a considerable amount of time to fixing bugs, addressing support questions, and handling security concerns. [00:20:32] We hear how cURL fits into the wider landscape of internet protocols and digital infrastructure. Daniel talks about the importance of maintaining backward compatibility in cURL, and how he sees cURL as a tool that enables users to transfer data over the internet effectively. [00:22:53] We hear about Uncurled, which is a book by Daniel. [00:24:32] Daniel tells us what many companies would rather not say, such as companies that choose not to disclose their support or donations to cURL. They prefer to remain anonymous and keep their contributions private. [00:28:02] He acknowledges that extracting significant value solely from donations can be challenging and offering support contracts provides a way to generate more revenue and provide additional value to companies. [00:29:19] What’s hard for Daniel? He attributes his optimistic and positive mindset to his personality and outlook on life, but he also mentions facing struggles. [00:34:24] Find out where you can follow Daniel on the web. Quotes [00:07:35] “My biggest way in is when my customers run into a bug. So, I have this weird incentive to not do it too good.” [00:10:32] “When you’ve been around for a long time and you know if things go well, I can be around for a long time further as well.” [00:21:24] “We haven’t done a breaking change in 16 years.” [00:30:09] “The hard part is the humans, the community, interacting with others, all the cultures, languages, and people.” Spotlight [00:35:03] Leslie’s spotlight is The Swedish Internet Foundation. [00:35:47] Richard’s spotlight is WC and Cat. [00:36:10] Daniel’s spotlight is Valgrind. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Leslie Hawthorne Twitter Daniel Stenberg Website Daniel Stenberg Twitter Daniel Stenberg Mastodon cURL wolfSSL Uncurled Everything curl The Swedish Internet Foundation wc (Unix) Valgrind Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Daniel Stenberg.Support Sustain

Guests Omotola Eunice Omotayo | Jan Ainali Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Today, Richard’s live at FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin, and on this episode, he’s joined by two guests. His first guest is Omotola Eunice Omotayo, who works as a community manager and organizer for Outreachy, which is a fellowship under Software Freedom Conservancy. She gave a talk about “Contributor engagement and monetization opportunities” at the event. They discuss the number of applications Outreachy received, the number of interns, and how she manages to keep up with social media and meetings with each intern. Finally, we learn about the HUGE open source community in Africa and OSCA. Richard’s next guest is Jan Ainali, who’s here to discuss a card game. Seriously! The Governance Game is a card game designed to encourage discussion about governance in open-source code bases. The game was created by publiccode.net, which helps public organizations collaborate on developing software for public purposes. The game includes starting states, bugs, and scenarios that are based on calamities observed in the real world. Jan also talks about the Foundation for Public Code, what they do, and how they are funded. Download this episode now to learn more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Omotola Eunice Omotayo Twitter Omotola Eunice Omotayo LinkedIn Outreachy Open Source Community Africa (OSCA) She Code Africa Jan Ainali Twitter Jan Ainali LinkedIn Jan Ainali Website Foundation for Public Code The Governance Game Signalen Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Jan Ainali and Omotola Eunice Omotayo.Support Sustain

Nahuai Badiola, a freelance WordPress developer and part of the WordPress Sustainability Initiative and the W3C Sustainability Working Group, discusses the importance of sustainability in various contexts. They talk about efforts towards sustainability, challenges of translating environmental and social issues to the digital space, and their project called Doughnut Economics. They also touch on their fellowship work with The Green Web Foundation.

Guests Wolfgang Gehring | Ana Jiménez Santamaría Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Today, Richard is joined by two guests from FOSS Backstage 2023 in Berlin. His first guest is Wolfgang Gehring, OSPO Head at Mercedes-Benz Tech Innovation. Wolfgang discusses the importance of open source at Mercedes-Benz. He mentions the company's recent FOSS convention, explains his role in getting people to work together, and talks about the challenges of de-risking and softening legal requirements. Richard asks for advice on how other large industrial companies can get started with OSPO. Finally, Wolfgang discusses his involvement with the Eclipse Foundation and their efforts to revise the Cyber Resiliency Act in the EU, and a great conversation about how large industries use and evangelize open source. Richard’s next guest he has another great conversation with is Ana Jiménez Santamaría. She discusses her work with the OSPO community and the importance of sustainability in open source ecosystems. Richard and Anna discuss a survey done by the TODO Group. Also, Ana talks about the importance of educating non-tech audiences on open source, and her new YouTube channel helping teach open source in an easy way to those not familiar with the tech stuff, particularly in Spanish, where there is a lack of content. Download this episode to hear more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Wolfgang Gehring LinkedIn Open Source Mercedes-Benz Mercedes-Benz Group GitHub Eclipse Foundation Ana Jiménez Santamaría Twitter Ana Jiménez Mastodon Ana Jiménez Santamaría LinkedIn Ana Jiménez Santamaría YouTube TODO Group Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Ana Jiménez Santamaría and Dr. Wolfgang Gehring.Support Sustain

Guest John Robb Panelists Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re super excited to have guest, John Robb, joining us today. John is a Community Manager at React Flow, an open source library for building node-based UI. Today, John talks about how they’ve sustained the project without investors and valuing intentionally and autonomy over endless growth. Then, there’s a conversation around paying contributors, supporting diverse contributors, and establishing boundaries for a safe environment. Also, we’ll hear about the challenges of funding open source projects, understanding the purchase funnel, and the need for transparency and clarity around the financial aspects of open source projects. Download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:53] John tells us about React Flow and how they’ve managed to sustain the project without investors. [00:04:50] “Dear Open Source: let’s do a better job of asking for money,” is a blog post John wrote and he used the word “ramen profitable,” so he explains what it means. [00:06:44] John talks about the company values intentionality and autonomy over growth and endless expansion. [00:09:32 ] As a Community Manager, John’s interested in thinking critically about growth and what it means to have a community. [00:11:13] The conversation revolves around the tension between personal greed and the desire for growth in open source projects. [00:15:38] The group discusses the importance of paying contributors for their work and how to invite and support a diverse range of contributors. [00:18:33 ] John tells us about an experience that’s been most relevant to him while doing community management work which was at a design camp called Stone Soup that he co-organized this year. [00:21:13] They discuss the history of open source and how it began with large enterprises working together on project without violating antitrust laws. [00:23:43 ] There’s a conversation about the importance of understanding the purchase funnel and how to make it easier for individuals and organizations to donate or support open source projects. [00:25:44] The group highlights the need for more transparency and clarity around the financial aspect of open source projects. [00:33:05 ] Find out where you can follow John on the web and get in touch with him. Quotes [00:08:08] “We’ve all been raised in this business culture to seek for something bigger and greater, and to grow a company as large as one can. But the tradeoff is great.” [00:09:37] “Do we want to scale our community?” [00:09:45] “Having more contributors makes things more difficult for them.” [00:14:48] “Just talking about the number of contributors isn’t going to help.” [00:15:46] “Being able to pay people in open source is good. People being able to be paid for their work is good.” [00:16:02] “Free time is a privileged resource.” [00:19:20] “How do you invite people and how do you know who you want to bring to the event and who not?” Spotlight [00:33:49] Amanda’s spotlight is the csv,conf 2023. [00:34:39] Richard’s spotlight is the ABA Podcast (American Birding). [00:35:19] John’s spotlight is The Hippocratic License 3.0. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer-iNaturalist Richard Littauer Mastodon Amanda Casari Twitter John Robb LinkedIn John Robb Twitter John Robb Mastodon John Robb email React Flow Dear Open Source: let’s do a better job of asking for money by John Robb Juli Sikorska LinkedIn Stone Soup The Green Bottle: Personal Financial Experience sliding scale Money and Open Source by Isaacs The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community by Ashe Dryden csv,conf 2023 American Birding Podcast The Hippocratic License 3.0 Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: John Robb.Support Sustain

Guest Gregor Bransky Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! On this episode, Richard is in Berlin this week at FOSS Backstage 2023, and he is joined by his guest, Gregor Bransky, who’s an artist, hacker, and computer technician. He discussed his experiences at CCC and how they value the creation of beauty using technology as part of their "Hacker Ethics." Gregor also discusses his role as a board member for present policy of the Innovation Council Public Health, an NGO that developed digital tools to fight COVID-19. The organization participated in the Virus Hackathon by the German government in March 2020, which led to the creation of projects such as a digital waiting room for communication with public health centers. Download this episode to hear more! Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org Richard Littauer Twitter FOSS Backstage 2023 Gregor Bransky LinkedIn Gregor Bransky Twitter Inoeg-Innovationsverbund Öffentliche Gesundheit Inoeg mastaodon CCC Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Gregor Bransky.Support Sustain

Guest Martin Woodward Panelists Richard Littauer | Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for GitHub’s Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. We are super excited to talk to our guest, Martin Woodward, who’s the VP of Developer Relations at GitHub. Today, Martin explains the origins of Maintainer Month and discusses his role in supporting open source maintainers and helping them succeed with GitHub. The conversation also covers topics such as the distinction between open source authors and maintainers, the GitHub Accelerator program and the M12 fund, the future of maintainership and funding challenges, and strategies for setting expectations for senior management and funders. There’s much more, so hit download now! [00:01:30] Martin explains that his role involves supporting open source maintainers and helping them succeed with GitHub. [00:02:46] How does Martin distinguish between DevRel and GitHub and make sure the work he does helps people who are maintainers. [00:04:54] Martin discusses the origins of Maintainer Month, starting with a virtual maintainer summit during the pandemic, which later expanded to involve the entire community. [00:07:38] Ben brings up how Maintainer’s month seems to be evolving, and Martin tells us the event aims to provide a safe space for maintainers to connect, share best practices, and raise awareness among developers about the challenges and importance of maintaining open source projects. [00:10:17] Martin explains the different segments within the maintainer community, ranging from contributors to maintainers who set the direction and run the projects, and emphasizes the need for respect and understanding of the diverse governance structures. [00:12:32] Ben discusses the distinction between open source authors and maintainers, highlighting the challenge of maintaining projects and the need for support and resources in that role, and he brings up a resource library. [00:15:34] The conversation shifts to the future of maintainership, focusing on the funding challenges faced by maintainers and the various motivations and expectations within the open source community. [00:17:12] The discussion touches on the involvement of venture capital firms asking for open source strategies from start-ups. [00:18:54] We hear about the involvement in the GitHub Accelerator program and M12 fund, with members of their team driving the first cohort and providing funding and training to open source start-ups. [00:22:44] Martin acknowledges the importance of maintaining boundaries and saying no as a maintainer, and shares how GitHub is incorporating feedback from maintainers into product features, such as interaction limits and status settings. He also mentions personal strategies for avoiding burnout as a maintainer. [00:27:26] Richard asks Martin for his thoughts on setting expectations for people above him such as senior management and funders, regarding keeping open source sustainable. [00:32:21] Why did Martin get into open source? [00:34:56] The conversation turns to the relationship between Microsoft and GitHub, with Martin stating that GitHub remains an independent entity while benefitting from the scale and resources of the parent company. [00:37:22] Find out where you follow Martin on the web. Quotes [00:08:37] “Other people start using it and all of a sudden you find you’re the maintainer of an open source project.” [00:21:34] “Maintainers are the givers.” [00:21:55] “Maintainers build communities.” [00:25:26] “You don’t have to take everybody’s PR’s.” [00:29:17] “Open source communities value co-contribution over everything else.” Spotlight [00:38:42] Ben’s spotlight is the Merlin App. [00:39:32] Richard’s *spotlight is getting your ears cleaned. [00:40:04] Martin’s spotlight is the WLED Project. Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Ben Nickolls Twitter Martin Woodward Twitter Martin Woodward Website GitHub GitHub Maintainer Month Dear GitHub Abigail Cabunoc Mayes LinkedIn Maintainerati OctoPrint Sustain Podcast-Episode 157: Joel Wasserman on lessons learned with Flossbank Sustain Podcast-2 episodes featuring Mike McQuaid from Homebrew Sustain Podcast-Episode 149: Naytri Sramek on the GitHub Accelerator and M12 GitHub Fund Sustain Podcast-2 episodes featuring Duane O’Brien Merlin Birding in Vermont WLED Project Octolamp-GitHub Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Martin Woodward.Support Sustain

Guests Predrag Gruevski | Kingsley Mkpandiok Panelists Richard Littauer | Eriol Fox Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul. This is a special podcast and one of several in this series for Maintainer Month. We’re interviewing maintainers to ask them about their experience of open source and their experience of living as maintainers. We’re super excited to have two guests with us. Our first guest is Predrag Gruevski, who’s the maintainer of two projects in the Rust ecosystem. Predrag discusses his role as a maintainer for these projects, and he shares his motivations for volunteering as a maintainer, the value of making an impact on the community, and the importance of mentorship. Our next guest is Kingsley Mkpandiok, who’s a B2B B2C UX Designer, Open Source Design Advocate, and has contributed to projects like CHAOSS Africa and OSCAfrica Festival. Kingsley shares his journey as a UX designer contributing to open source projects in Nigeria, he discusses the challenges of onboarding designers, shares his approach to creating a welcoming environment and providing opportunities for designers to contribute beyond initial tasks. Download this episode now to hear much more! Predrag: [00:00:46] Predrag discusses his role as a maintainer of two open source projects in the Rust ecosystem: cargo-semver-checks and Trustfall. [00:01:13] He explains that semantic versioning is more critical in Rust due to the language’s auto traits feature, and breaking changes in Rust can have serious consequences. [00:03:15] Predrag talks about being a volunteer and how it provides an opportunity to make a significant impact on the community while benefiting from the value proposition. [00:06:32] We hear how Predrag values helping early career individuals break into software engineering and finding competent individuals who outperform their peers. [00:08:24] How does Predrag rule out people who aren’t competent yet? He explains how he’s looking for people who are outperforming their peers and outperforming their environment. [00:09:55] Regarding onboarding maintainers, Predrag discusses marketing mentorship opportunities on GitHub issues and being open to collaborating with students or individuals interested in Rust open source tooling. [00:11:15] Predrag acknowledges the possibility of experiencing burnout as a maintainer. He separates burnout from mentorship, noting that not everyone may be a good fit for his mentorship style. He values feedback and growth-oriented individuals and believes in honest conversations. [00:12:56] Richard brings up value propositions and Predrag tells us he enjoys solving hard problems and finding efficient solutions. The question of value alignment comes up and Predrag clarifies that he sees himself as a curator of options for the project, providing a menu of potential directions for new maintainers to choose from. [00:15:26] Predrag mentions that he plans to integrate cargo-semvr-checks into the Rust programming language cargo tool, which would further decentralize the project and make it a collective effort. [00:17:09] Find out where you can follow Predrag and his blog on the web. Kingsley: [00:20:21] Our next guest, Kingsley tells us that he sees himself primarily as a designer rather than a maintainer. He shares his experience of joining CHAOSS Africa as his first open source contribution. [00:23:31] Kingsley tells us it took him about two months to fully understand how to contribute to CHAOSS Africa, and he emphasizes the importance of designers being open to problem-solving and looking for issues to fix within the community. [00:26:16] Regarding onboarding designers and creating a more inclusive environment, Kingsley shares his experience in CHAOSS Africa and a document he created. [00:30:06] Kingsley shares that the one thing he didn’t expect about working in design was having to handle conflict resolution among design contributors. [00:31:41] Eriol asks Kingsley about his vision for change in open source projects and culture to make design more inclusive. He expresses his desire to see more designers getting involved in open source projects, and he encourages designers to see themselves as problem solvers who can contribute to various aspects of open source. [00:35:10] Find out where you can follow Kingsley on the web. Quotes Predrag: [00:04:10] “There’s been multiple prior efforts to build semver-checks in Rust that have failed for maintainability reasons. They were harder to keep going.” [00:05:28] “I felt that for a very small amount of effort, I could have a very large impact on the community.” [00:07:01] “I’m one of those people that believes that number of years of experience is an extremely poor predictor of competence, whether in software or otherwise.” [00:10:10] “I label issues as ‘e-mentor,’ so that means I’m willing to mentor someone to take over implementing this issue.” [00:14:11] “I believe in laying out a menu and saying, hey, which of these ten different things, ten different directions of taking the project are you interested in working on?” [00:16:54] “The project will have failed if twenty years from now I’m the person that has to make every single one of these decisions.” Kingsley: [00:24:58] “You can’t contribute to a project you don’t understand.” [00:30:35] “One thing I didn’t expect [about working in design] is conflict resolution.” [00:31:22] “I wish someone had told me about the need for conflict resolution skills and not just design.” [00:34:57] “There’s no future in open source without design.” Links SustainOSS SustainOSS Twitter SustainOSS Discourse podcast@sustainoss.org SustainOSS Mastodon Richard Littauer Twitter Eriol Fox Twitter Predrag Gruevski Twitter Predrag Gruevski Website Predrag’s Blog Predrag’s blog post-“Mediocrity can be a sign of excellence, and other stories” Trustfall-GitHub cargo-semver-checks Kingsley Mkpandiok LinkedIn Kingsley Mkpandiok Medium CHAOSS Africa CHAOSS blog post-“How can designers contribute to an open source project on GitHub?” by Kingsley Mkpandiok CHAOSS Weekly Newsletter Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Kingsley Mkpandiok and Predrag Gruevski.Support Sustain