
Sounds of SAND
Sounds of SAND invites listeners into a contemplative journey through the infinite cycles of existence - from its raw beauty to its deepest mysteries, from its intricate complexity to its profound wonder. Through intimate conversations, thought-provoking interviews, poetic readings, and carefully curated music, we weave together ancient wisdom with lived experience, creating a tapestry of sound that honors the great questions of being
Latest episodes

Jan 18, 2024 • 55min
#69 Rethinking Attachment Towards Relational Wholeness: Linda Thai
While Attachment Theory has offered many valuable insights, its foundations reflect certain limiting assumptions. Originally formulated based on white, Western nuclear family structures, Attachment Theory is rooted in White cis-het settler-colonizer patriarchal paradigms that hyper-emphasise dyadic relationships within a nuclear family. Yet we humans participate in relationships far beyond just our early caretakers.
Many of us feel profound connections across generations – to ancestors, spiritual traditions, and cultural lineages. We also bond deeply with the living world around us, from animals and plants to rivers and forests. And in today’s complex global society, our close relational circles extend to friends, chosen families, and communities near and far.
When we experience trauma, secure attachment with a handful of early caregivers alone cannot suffice to heal our deep relational wounds. We need a more expansive vision – one that engages the full web of relationships anchoring our lives. The connections we share run far deeper than any one theory can capture.
What would it mean to reconceptualize secure attachment more holistically? How might embracing the relational richness of our multi-layered lives help transform isolation into belonging?
These are some of the questions we will explore with Linda Thai, mental health clinician, storyteller, and educator.
Topics:
00:00 – Introduction
01:20 – Orienting
07:45 – Linda's Journey
15:50 – Attachment Theory
22:00 – Grief
31:21 – Song at the Heart of Healing
47:40 – Ancestry

Jan 11, 2024 • 1h 4min
#68 Listening Heart: Katie Gray
"If we knew how important it is to listen, to listen to our hearts, to listen to our loved ones, to birds, to animals… it’s the ability to listen that reconnects us to the all, the great spirit”—Katie Gray
Katie Gray is an author, singer, counselor, and elder caregiver devoted to helping people connect with feeling, presence and Self awareness. Inspired and compelled by her own self-recovery from a 17 year addiction to food and bulimia, Katie utilizes the gift of her voice and wisdom to help others unravel from shame, insecurity and suffering. Her work, The Empowered Heart, is a methodological approach that helps assist people through the process of identifying and healing emotional wounds and is the basis of understanding that infuses her work as an author, counselor, and facilitator.
Her new book is The Empowered Heart Guidebook
Topics:
00:00 – Introduction
03:08 – Connecting with SAND
07:03 – Listening
10:54 – Path to the Empowered Heart Guidebook
16:40 – Writing Process
19:34 – Circular Map
26:24 – The Rhythm of the Path
32:24 – Rushing Towards Solutions
40:20 – Remembering The Heart
48:38 – Healing in Community
53:22 – Empowered
Support the production of the Sounds of SAND podcast by becoming a SAND Member

Jan 4, 2024 • 1h 1min
#67 The Dreaming Path: Uncle Paul Callaghan and Uncle Paul Gordon
Join SAND co-founders Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo in conversation with Aboriginal elders and authors Uncle Paul Callaghan and Uncle Paul Gordon for a colorful community conversation, “On the Dreaming Path,” where we’ll explore some of the profound teachings shared in their latest book.
"Uncle" Paul Callaghan is an award-winning author and accomplished speaker. He has qualifications in a very diverse range of disciplines and a PhD in creative practice. He is also an Aboriginal story teller from the land of the Worimi people who has spent many years “out bush” listening and learning. He has life experience in many industries, Aboriginal culture and heritage and Aboriginal community services.
"Uncle" Paul Gordon is a Ngemba man. Born in Brewarrina, he grew up on the Barwon River in Northwestern New South Wales, Australia. Since 1983 he has spent most of his time with the Old Men learning about country and lore. Uncle Paul has dedicated his life to teaching and working with communities throughout Australia to support learning through lore and culture. For the past 15 years, he has been leading camps and workshops for Indigenous and non-Indigenous people to reconnect to culture. As a traditional knowledge holder and custodian of Aboriginal lore, he continues to share as part of his obligation to thousands of years of Aboriginal culture.
The underpinning foundation of the book is his journey through depression and the role Aboriginal culture, spirituality and philosophy had in not only enabling him to recover, but also empowering him to live life by his truth rather than everybody else’s expectations. The book has a number of exercises and models based on his experience aimed at assisting people from all walks of life to build the courage and skills to live a life of purpose, choice and wellbeing. You will find it is a combination of styles including textbook, self help, Aboriginal history, Aboriginal philosophy, Aboriginal spirituality and an autobiography of his journey through depression.
The Dreaming Path: Indigenous Thinking to Change Your Life
Topics:
0:00 – Introduction
4:33 – Dreamtime
13:00 – Aboriginal Lore
20:26 – A Dreamtime Story
32:16 – Importance of Relationality
41:26 – 2023 Australian Indigenous Voice Referendum

Dec 21, 2023 • 1h 33min
#66 Silent Light
Welcome to the Sounds of SAND podcast and our final episode of the year. Today we present an Anthology episode culling poetry, song, talks and conversations from this podcast as well as Science and Nonduality conferences and events from the past decade.
As the world around us quiets down and a blanket of stillness descends, we find ourselves at the heart of an ancient cultural and spiritual celebration – the winter solstice. People through out time have revered this moment of deep winter for its mystical powers of regrowth, healing, and hope that it’s always darkest before the light returns.
Indeed many ancient civilizations noticed that the days were getting longer in the days just after the Winter Solstice. They celebrated the coming of longer days, the return of the sun in ancient Greece and Rome, Pagan religions and even the birth of Jesus in the Christian Religion all occurring in late December.
These days with the polycrises of environmental collapse, cultural fragmentation, economic inequality and the brutal violence of wars in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and Sudan we are all entangled in the dark blanket of shared grief.
We’ll hear from SAND speakers like Maya Luna, Lama Rod Owens, Gabor Mate, Adyashanti, Mirabai Star, and Michael Meade who touch into themes of the dark night of the soul, silence, and a prayer for light to return to our collective consciousness.
You can find the full list of speakers with timestamps in the Topics section.
Please join us and settling in as we take a sonic journey as the season of silence is upon us. If you’re listening in the Southern part of the world, where the long days of summer are now expanding, I hope this episode finds you when deep winter arrives in June.
Thank you for listening and being the shared light of awareness.
Join SAND to support the mission and production of this podcast:
TOPICS:
00:00:00 – Introduction
00:04:44 – Joan Tollifson
00:09:42 – Pamela Wilson
00:16:48 – Adyashanti & Gabor Maté
00:24:48 – Lama Rod Owens
00:26:30 – Vera de Chalambert
00:38:58 – Fred LaMotte
00:47:32 – Mirabai Starr
00:58:50 – Maya Luna
01:04:36 – Amoda Maa
01:24:06 – Michael Meade

Dec 14, 2023 • 52min
#65 Emptiness & Grief: Francis Weller
A live recording from a recent SAND Community Gathers (Sept. 2023) hosted by Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo (co-founders of SAND). Along with their guest, Francis Weller, they explore themes of emptiness, individualism, self-help, separation, religion, belonging, relationality, and Francis's deep work with grief.
Francis Weller, MFT, is a psychotherapist, writer and soul activist. He is a master of synthesizing diverse streams of thought from psychology, anthropology, mythology, alchemy, indigenous cultures and poetic traditions. Author of The Wild Edge of Sorrow: Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief; The Threshold Between Loss and Revelation, (with Rashani Réa) and In the Absence of the Ordinary: Essays in a Time of Uncertainty, he has introduced the healing work of ritual to thousands of people. He founded and directs WisdomBridge, an organization that offers educational programs that seek to integrate the wisdom from indigenous cultures with the insights and knowledge gathered from western poetic, psychological and spiritual traditions.
Support the Sounds of SAND Podcast by becoming a SAND Member
Episode Topics:
0:00 – Introduction
4:00 – Emptiness & Individualism
9:00 – Religion & The Original Trauma
13:43 – Self-help & Separateness
18:22 – Belonging
23:46 – Grief & Emptiness
28:57 – Rationality vs. Relationship
34:32 – Joy & Grief
44:20 – Buddhism & Emptiness
46:48 – Guided Meditation from Francis

Dec 7, 2023 • 1h 7min
#64 AI & the Global Brain: Peter Russell
Peter Russell is on the faculty of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, a fellow of The World Business Academy and The Findhorn Foundation, and an Honorary Member of The Club of Budapest, and President of Science and NonDuality.
In 1982 he coined the term "global brain" with his 1980s bestseller of the same name in which he predicted the Internet and the impact it would have.
Peter Russell Interviews his AI Clone
Peter’s new book, Forgiving Humanity: How the Most Innovative Species Became the Most Dangerous
Peter’s Course on SAND, Enjoying Meditation
Topics:
00:00 – Introduction
03:23 – Peter’s AI Clone
08:56 – The Black Box
10:21 – Non-linearity
11:17 – The Global Brain
13:18 – Usefulness of GPTs
15:52 – Forms of Intelligence
17:38 – The Unexpected
29:00 – AI & Consciousness
31:32 – Digital Reality and Consciousness
35:42 – Importance for Society
50:48 – AI and Inequality
53:57 – A Digital Dark Age?
01:01:12 – The Future of AI

Nov 30, 2023 • 54min
#63 Ancestral Constellations: Efu Nyaki
SAND co-founders Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo join Euphrasia “Efu” Nyaki for a community conversation on holistic healing from trauma. Efu has developed a method that integrates ancestral wisdom from her Snail Clan in Tanzania, somatic therapy, and family constellations. Her approach helps resolve PTSD, depression, addiction, chronic illness, and more by releasing trauma at the physical, emotional, and spiritual levels.
Euphrasia (Efu) Nyaki was born and raised on the slopes of mountain Kilimanjaro in Tanzania, where she gained the essence and vital healing energy from her ancestors. The strength of her ancestors lead her to earn a Bachelor of Science degree, train as a science teacher, and later to train as a healer using holistic methods. Efu enjoys helping others and for this reason joined an International Catholic Missionary community called Maryknoll sisters of Saint Dominick. Having arrived in Brazil as a missionary in 1993, Efu worked for 5 years with women who suffered from violence using mental health programs in the periphery of the city of João Pessoa, Brazil. In the year 2000 she co- founded two NGOs, and in the past 20 years, Efu has offered bodyworker and herbal medicine trainings for community leaders. For the past 10 years Efu has been teaching Family Constellation (trans-generational trauma healing) and Somatic Experiencing® (SE™) for trauma resolution in Brazil and other parts of the world. Efu was also asked by Dr. Peter A Levine, the developer of SE™, to join his Legacy Faculty to assist him and teach his Master Classes.
Efu’s new book:
Healing Trauma through Family Constellations and Somatic Experiencing: Ancestral Wisdom from the Snail Clan of Tanzania (Sacred Planet)
Support the Sounds of SAND Podcast by becoming a SAND Member

Nov 23, 2023 • 1h 1min
#62 The Dreamer’s Dream – Éric Baret
Without either diploma or culture, Éric Baret has no special competence. Touched by the non-dual tradition through Jean Klein's teaching, he suggests that one turn towards listening, free of any notion of gain. Nothing taught, no teacher. Meetings for the joy of being nothing.
Let the Moon Be Free: Conversations on Conversations on Kashmiri Tantra
Articles and writings from Éric on SAND’s Website
Topics:
0:00 – Introduction
3:26 – Lineage
5:18 – Jean Klein
11:53 – Guru / Student Relationship
23:46 – Arc of Awakening
29:56 – Sleep
38:38 – Dream Consciousness
42:56 – Body
50:44 – Listening
57:33 – Let the Moon Be Free
Episode Transcript

Nov 16, 2023 • 33min
#61 Roots Run Deep: Gabor Maté
No statement, no words can speak to the immense human suffering, the devastation and the horrendous humanitarian crisis intensifying in the Middle East. The current tragedy is awakening existential fear, acute grief and deep despair. Unspeakable atrocities have left many in a state of deep shock and in need of support.
Gabor Maté, M.D. is a renowned speaker, and bestselling author who is is highly sought after for his expertise on a range of topics including addiction, stress and childhood development. Rather than offering quick-fix solutions to these complex issues, Dr. Maté weaves together scientific research, case histories, and his own insights and experience to present a broad perspective that enlightens and empowers people to promote their own healing and that of those around them.
Roots Run Deep Resources for Palestine / Israel
Full Video Recording of this Episode
Part two of this Roots Run Deep series live online with Dr. Gabor Maté, Dec 15, 9am PT

Nov 9, 2023 • 1h 1min
#60 Spiritual Warriors: Lama Rod Owens
Lama Rod Owens is a Black Buddhist Southern Queen. An international influencer with a Master of Divinity degree in Buddhist Studies from Harvard Divinity School with a focus on the intersection of social change, identity, and spiritual practice. Author of The New Saints: From Broken Hearts to Spiritual Warriors and Love and Rage: The Path of Liberation through Anger and co-author of Radical Dharma: Talking Race, Love and Liberation, his teachings center on freedom, self-expression, and radical self-care. Highly sought after for talks, retreats, and workshops, his mission is showing you how to heal and free yourself.
Topics:
0:00 – Introduction
2:34 – Global Wars
6:29 – Self-Care at the End of the World
8:57 – Fierce Compassion
14:45 – Ma Tara
20:59 – New Saints
28:03 – Evangelism and Bodhisattva
41:05 – Do We Need Modern-Day Saints?
45:05 – Inclusivity
48:49 – Secular Buddhism and Liberation
55:29 – Prayer