
Sounds of SAND
Sounds of SAND invites listeners into a contemplative journey through the infinite cycles of existence - from its raw beauty to its deepest mysteries, from its intricate complexity to its profound wonder. Through intimate conversations, thought-provoking interviews, poetic readings, and carefully curated music, we weave together ancient wisdom with lived experience, creating a tapestry of sound that honors the great questions of being
Latest episodes

Feb 15, 2024 • 1h 1min
#73 Bloodlines: Sulaiman Khatib, meital yaniv & Rae Abileah
From a SAND Community Gathering in January 2024.
You can watch the full video of this Community Gathering here: scienceandnonduality.com/event/bloodlines/
As many of us grapple with feelings of disillusionment, outrage, impotence and grief at the horrendous tragedy unfolding in Gaza, we gathered as a SAND community for an intimate conversation with meital yaniv, an ex-israeli soldier / ex-zionist fighter and Sulaiman Khatib, Palestinian co-founder of Combatants for Peace.
With meital and Souli reflecting on their personal journeys of loss and transformation, we uncovered ancestral legacies of trauma and coping, belonging and indoctrination, individual and collective grief, awakening, and resilience. Their dialog was facilitated by Rae Abileah, a Jewish faith leader, social change strategist, and writer. Through sharing our stories, and engaging in open and compassionate conversation, may we find collective healing.
Sulaiman Khatib is the Co-Founder of Combatants for Peace. Nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, he has been recognized internationally for his contributions to promoting peace, social justice and equality for all. In 2006, he co-founded Al-Qud’s Association for Democracy and Dialogue, a program which works with youth in order to create effective and sustainable projects focusing on the promotion of peace, democracy and civic participation in the Palestinian Territories. For the last twenty years, he has been a committed advocate for peace in the Middle East and an active member of various programs aiming to promote a peaceful solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. He is the author of In this Place Together.
meital yaniv was born into a sephardic and ashkenazi lineage of in/famous war heroes and pillars for the state of israel, meital is the author of bloodlines, an epic and intimate dive into the israeli apartheid regime from the perspective of an ex-israeli/ex-zionist soldier. In the book, meital yaniv traces their paternal family narrative from surviving the Holocaust of the second world war to migrating to Palestine and their subsequent indoctrination as zionist colonizers and defenders of the state of israel. yaniv directs our attention to the cycles of history and how genocide not only repeats but grows monstrously in the crevices of state belonging. They see themselves as “a death laborer tending to a prayer for the liberation of the land of Palestine and the lands of our bodies.”
Rae Abileah (she/her) is a Jewish faith leader, social change strategist, writer, and facilitator. For the past two decades, she has worked with nonprofits and social movements, from volunteer to executive director.
Topics:
00:00 – Introduction
00:24 – Introduction with Gazan Musician, Haneen Sabbah singing Reem Banna (The Absence one)
04:16 – Introduction from Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo
06:52 – Rae Abileah Introduction
12:12 – Sulaiman Khatib
17:32 – Sulaiman’s Time in Jail
33:18 – meital yaniv’s Story
48:16 – Healing the Land Through Ancestors
SAND's Helpful Resources on Israel/Palestine
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Feb 6, 2024 • 1h 15min
#72 Ancestral Song: Vuyi Qubeka
Vuyi Qubeka is a seer, artist, multidimensional storyteller, & a transformative healing practitioner whose work is anchored by the wisdoms of indigenous knowledge systems and unconditional love.
Vuyi considers herself a SoulSongSage and creates a container for individuals to remember the song of their soul through identifying the blockages keeping them from expressing their true nature by re-patterning childhood conditioning and trauma. Vuyi weaves together sound, ceremony, movement, visual art, and prose to conjure memory, activate healing and inspire truth seekers, creatives & pioneering leaders from all walks of life. Her work explores both feminine wisdom & the Mother Mind while confronting individual, familial & collective traumas, with a focus on sexual trauma, for our shared restoration.
Vuyi offers one-on-one soul healing sessions, storytelling & speaking immersions, rites of passage ceremonies, retreat facilitation, workshops and explorative collaborations. Vuyi's long term intention is to create a rehabilitation oasis for child trafficking survivors, a home within nature where small people can restore their innocence, joy, dignity and reclaim their essence.
Website: www.vuyiqubeka.com
Instagram: www.instagram.com/vuyiqubeka/
Email: vuyiqubeka@gmail.com
Topics:
00:00:00 – Introduction00:11:54 – Shamanism00:17:39 – Ancestors00:20:52 – Healing with Sound00:22:11 – Connection with Nature00:24:46 – The Authentic Self00:30:14 – South Africa and Gaza00:34:14 – Vuyi’s Message to Gaza00:39:39 – ”Don’t Die with Your Music Still Inside You”00:42:21 – TED Talk Excerpt00:50:44 – We Are the Song00:53:42 – ”Ancient Dreams” (AxisZulu Natural Mix) by Vuyi Qubeka01:01:16 – Coming Up for Vuyi01:13:12 – ”Moon Chant” by Vuyi Qubeka
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Feb 1, 2024 • 1h 24min
#71 Beyond Algorithms: Edward Frenkel
Join mathematician Edward Frenkel as he explores the fallacy of computationalism and determinism. Discussing the nature of reality, consciousness, and the limits of knowledge, Frenkel challenges the misconceptions of 19th-century science and advocates for updating our worldview with 21st-century paradigms. Dive into the fascination with mathematics, the illusion of free will, and the relationship between AI and human consciousness. This mind-expanding dialogue delves into quantum theory, linear time, and the celebration of AI's usefulness while embracing its challenges.

16 snips
Jan 25, 2024 • 57min
#70 Jungian Black Holes: Timothy Owen Desmond
Without form, without figure, without resemblance am I;
Vitality of all senses, in everything I am;
Neither attached, nor released am I;
I am Consciousness, I am Bliss, I am Shiva, I am Shiva.
—Adi Shankara, Nirvana Shatakam, Hymns 3–6
Timothy Owen Desmond, aka Tod, is a philosopher and author. He majored in Philosophy and Political Science at Boston College University. Dedicated to a life of study, his unconventional path led to a Ph.D. in Philosophy and Religion from CIIS. Desmond explores the intersections of holographic string theory and Jungian psychology, detailed in his 2018 book, Psyche and Singularity. In 2023, he launched an online course, "Immortality and the Unreality of Death," integrating insights from Joseph Campbell and Ernest Becker.
Tod’s Course: Immortality and the Unreality of Death: A Hero’s Journey Through Philosophy, Psychology, and Physics
Takeaways:
The intersection of Jungian psychology, physics, and string theory offers a comprehensive understanding of the nature of reality.
Near-death experiences and mystical experiences provide insights into the ultimate nature of existence.
Plato's cave allegory and archetypes reveal the shadowy nature of the material world and the existence of higher forms.
String theory and the holographic principle suggest that the universe is an inside-out black hole, and information is recorded on a two-dimensional surface.
The concept of psyche as a singularity implies that each individual is a point of infinite density and contains the entire universe within.
Exploring these ideas can lead to a deeper understanding of reality and the nature of consciousness. Understanding the eternal nature of the soul can help address the fear of death.
Belief in God and performing heroically for God is important for the development of the human psyche.
The journey towards singularity involves a ladder of understanding that leads to a belief in the ultimate idea of the good.
Future explorations in physics, philosophy, and artificial intelligence can further deepen our understanding of the psyche and singularity.
Topics:
0:00 – Introduction
5:50 – Jung’s Near-Death Experience
16:08 – Nondual Experiences: Dissolving Separateness
20:20 – Jungian Archetypes
23:46 – Platonic Philosophies
28:04 – Why there are seashells in the mountains?
33:30 – String Theory & Black Holes
43:16 – Infinity, Emptiness & Form
50:38 – Exploring the “why” of all of this?
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Jan 18, 2024 • 55min
#69 Rethinking Attachment Towards Relational Wholeness: Linda Thai
While Attachment Theory has offered many valuable insights, its foundations reflect certain limiting assumptions. Originally formulated based on white, Western nuclear family structures, Attachment Theory is rooted in White cis-het settler-colonizer patriarchal paradigms that hyper-emphasise dyadic relationships within a nuclear family. Yet we humans participate in relationships far beyond just our early caretakers.
Many of us feel profound connections across generations – to ancestors, spiritual traditions, and cultural lineages. We also bond deeply with the living world around us, from animals and plants to rivers and forests. And in today’s complex global society, our close relational circles extend to friends, chosen families, and communities near and far.
When we experience trauma, secure attachment with a handful of early caregivers alone cannot suffice to heal our deep relational wounds. We need a more expansive vision – one that engages the full web of relationships anchoring our lives. The connections we share run far deeper than any one theory can capture.
What would it mean to reconceptualize secure attachment more holistically? How might embracing the relational richness of our multi-layered lives help transform isolation into belonging?
These are some of the questions we will explore with Linda Thai, mental health clinician, storyteller, and educator.
Topics:
00:00 – Introduction
01:20 – Orienting
07:45 – Linda's Journey
15:50 – Attachment Theory
22:00 – Grief
31:21 – Song at the Heart of Healing
47:40 – Ancestry

Jan 11, 2024 • 1h 4min
#68 Listening Heart: Katie Gray
"If we knew how important it is to listen, to listen to our hearts, to listen to our loved ones, to birds, to animals… it’s the ability to listen that reconnects us to the all, the great spirit”—Katie Gray
Katie Gray is an author, singer, counselor, and elder caregiver devoted to helping people connect with feeling, presence and Self awareness. Inspired and compelled by her own self-recovery from a 17 year addiction to food and bulimia, Katie utilizes the gift of her voice and wisdom to help others unravel from shame, insecurity and suffering. Her work, The Empowered Heart, is a methodological approach that helps assist people through the process of identifying and healing emotional wounds and is the basis of understanding that infuses her work as an author, counselor, and facilitator.
Her new book is The Empowered Heart Guidebook
Topics:
00:00 – Introduction
03:08 – Connecting with SAND
07:03 – Listening
10:54 – Path to the Empowered Heart Guidebook
16:40 – Writing Process
19:34 – Circular Map
26:24 – The Rhythm of the Path
32:24 – Rushing Towards Solutions
40:20 – Remembering The Heart
48:38 – Healing in Community
53:22 – Empowered
Support the production of the Sounds of SAND podcast by becoming a SAND Member

Jan 4, 2024 • 1h 1min
#67 The Dreaming Path: Uncle Paul Callaghan and Uncle Paul Gordon
Join SAND co-founders Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo in conversation with Aboriginal elders and authors Uncle Paul Callaghan and Uncle Paul Gordon for a colorful community conversation, “On the Dreaming Path,” where we’ll explore some of the profound teachings shared in their latest book.
"Uncle" Paul Callaghan is an award-winning author and accomplished speaker. He has qualifications in a very diverse range of disciplines and a PhD in creative practice. He is also an Aboriginal story teller from the land of the Worimi people who has spent many years “out bush” listening and learning. He has life experience in many industries, Aboriginal culture and heritage and Aboriginal community services.
"Uncle" Paul Gordon is a Ngemba man. Born in Brewarrina, he grew up on the Barwon River in Northwestern New South Wales, Australia. Since 1983 he has spent most of his time with the Old Men learning about country and lore. Uncle Paul has dedicated his life to teaching and working with communities throughout Australia to support learning through lore and culture. For the past 15 years, he has been leading camps and workshops for Indigenous and non-Indigenous people to reconnect to culture. As a traditional knowledge holder and custodian of Aboriginal lore, he continues to share as part of his obligation to thousands of years of Aboriginal culture.
The underpinning foundation of the book is his journey through depression and the role Aboriginal culture, spirituality and philosophy had in not only enabling him to recover, but also empowering him to live life by his truth rather than everybody else’s expectations. The book has a number of exercises and models based on his experience aimed at assisting people from all walks of life to build the courage and skills to live a life of purpose, choice and wellbeing. You will find it is a combination of styles including textbook, self help, Aboriginal history, Aboriginal philosophy, Aboriginal spirituality and an autobiography of his journey through depression.
The Dreaming Path: Indigenous Thinking to Change Your Life
Topics:
0:00 – Introduction
4:33 – Dreamtime
13:00 – Aboriginal Lore
20:26 – A Dreamtime Story
32:16 – Importance of Relationality
41:26 – 2023 Australian Indigenous Voice Referendum

Dec 21, 2023 • 1h 33min
#66 Silent Light
Welcome to the Sounds of SAND podcast and our final episode of the year. Today we present an Anthology episode culling poetry, song, talks and conversations from this podcast as well as Science and Nonduality conferences and events from the past decade.
As the world around us quiets down and a blanket of stillness descends, we find ourselves at the heart of an ancient cultural and spiritual celebration – the winter solstice. People through out time have revered this moment of deep winter for its mystical powers of regrowth, healing, and hope that it’s always darkest before the light returns.
Indeed many ancient civilizations noticed that the days were getting longer in the days just after the Winter Solstice. They celebrated the coming of longer days, the return of the sun in ancient Greece and Rome, Pagan religions and even the birth of Jesus in the Christian Religion all occurring in late December.
These days with the polycrises of environmental collapse, cultural fragmentation, economic inequality and the brutal violence of wars in places like Gaza, Ukraine, and Sudan we are all entangled in the dark blanket of shared grief.
We’ll hear from SAND speakers like Maya Luna, Lama Rod Owens, Gabor Mate, Adyashanti, Mirabai Star, and Michael Meade who touch into themes of the dark night of the soul, silence, and a prayer for light to return to our collective consciousness.
You can find the full list of speakers with timestamps in the Topics section.
Please join us and settling in as we take a sonic journey as the season of silence is upon us. If you’re listening in the Southern part of the world, where the long days of summer are now expanding, I hope this episode finds you when deep winter arrives in June.
Thank you for listening and being the shared light of awareness.
Join SAND to support the mission and production of this podcast:
TOPICS:
00:00:00 – Introduction
00:04:44 – Joan Tollifson
00:09:42 – Pamela Wilson
00:16:48 – Adyashanti & Gabor Maté
00:24:48 – Lama Rod Owens
00:26:30 – Vera de Chalambert
00:38:58 – Fred LaMotte
00:47:32 – Mirabai Starr
00:58:50 – Maya Luna
01:04:36 – Amoda Maa
01:24:06 – Michael Meade

Dec 14, 2023 • 52min
#65 Emptiness & Grief: Francis Weller
A live recording from a recent SAND Community Gathers (Sept. 2023) hosted by Zaya and Maurizio Benazzo (co-founders of SAND). Along with their guest, Francis Weller, they explore themes of emptiness, individualism, self-help, separation, religion, belonging, relationality, and Francis's deep work with grief.
Francis Weller, MFT, is a psychotherapist, writer and soul activist. He is a master of synthesizing diverse streams of thought from psychology, anthropology, mythology, alchemy, indigenous cultures and poetic traditions. Author of The Wild Edge of Sorrow: Rituals of Renewal and the Sacred Work of Grief; The Threshold Between Loss and Revelation, (with Rashani Réa) and In the Absence of the Ordinary: Essays in a Time of Uncertainty, he has introduced the healing work of ritual to thousands of people. He founded and directs WisdomBridge, an organization that offers educational programs that seek to integrate the wisdom from indigenous cultures with the insights and knowledge gathered from western poetic, psychological and spiritual traditions.
Support the Sounds of SAND Podcast by becoming a SAND Member
Episode Topics:
0:00 – Introduction
4:00 – Emptiness & Individualism
9:00 – Religion & The Original Trauma
13:43 – Self-help & Separateness
18:22 – Belonging
23:46 – Grief & Emptiness
28:57 – Rationality vs. Relationship
34:32 – Joy & Grief
44:20 – Buddhism & Emptiness
46:48 – Guided Meditation from Francis

Dec 7, 2023 • 1h 7min
#64 AI & the Global Brain: Peter Russell
Peter Russell is on the faculty of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, a fellow of The World Business Academy and The Findhorn Foundation, and an Honorary Member of The Club of Budapest, and President of Science and NonDuality.
In 1982 he coined the term "global brain" with his 1980s bestseller of the same name in which he predicted the Internet and the impact it would have.
Peter Russell Interviews his AI Clone
Peter’s new book, Forgiving Humanity: How the Most Innovative Species Became the Most Dangerous
Peter’s Course on SAND, Enjoying Meditation
Topics:
00:00 – Introduction
03:23 – Peter’s AI Clone
08:56 – The Black Box
10:21 – Non-linearity
11:17 – The Global Brain
13:18 – Usefulness of GPTs
15:52 – Forms of Intelligence
17:38 – The Unexpected
29:00 – AI & Consciousness
31:32 – Digital Reality and Consciousness
35:42 – Importance for Society
50:48 – AI and Inequality
53:57 – A Digital Dark Age?
01:01:12 – The Future of AI
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