Have a New Kid by Friday with Dr. Kevin Leman

When you’re a parent with multiple children, you learn quickly that some tactics that worked on one child are sometimes completely useless on the other. In this episode, Dr. Leman explains the benefits of changing up your parenting from child to child.   **Special Offer– Dec 17 – 31: Birth Order Book ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug Terpening: So Dr. Leman says that kids are different, and therefore I have to parent differently. I think that’s way unfair. Some kids get something that others don’t. Doesn’t that seem wrong? Doesn’t it seem like kids going to be bitter. That kid A, got this, but kid B doesn’t, or kid C gets this earlier than this kid. It just seems wrong to me. But that’s the question we asked Dr. Leman. He says, if you have different kids, you have to parent differently on them. We’ll find out if he’s right or if I’m right. Doug Terpening: Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: I’m Andrea. Doug Terpening: We are so glad that you are with us. If this happens to be your first time with us, welcome and want to make sure that you know that this is for education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. So Dr. Leman, you love to say that we have to parent each kid differently because each kid is different. That seems very unfair and undoable. What do you mean by that? Dr. Kevin Leman: Yeah, I’ll get to that in a minute, but I got a comment. No wonder people like you. We are so glad you joined us today. I mean, you’re like Mr. Happy Face on this podcast. You’ll get us going in a positive direction. And, I’m Andrea and she’s right there. Oh, this cute little couple from Oregon. Dr Leman says they have pigs and chickens and whatever on that farm. They live on whatever. Dr. Kevin Leman: But, people love you and I want to say how much I appreciate you guys and you, you always start things off on a positive way and you always say, hey listen, this is for your entertainment education. If you’ve got a big problem here, go seek some help. And let me say this, if you’re going to seek help from somebody, find somebody who has a reputation for getting rid of you. Dr. Kevin Leman: What does that mean? It means look for someone who believes in short term therapy of any kind. Okay? Don’t get locked in to seeing somebody for two years and we have easy payments and please don’t go. Don’t go there. Find somebody who’s practical. Who believes that behavior is learned, and that with proper changes on your part as a parent, you can see changes in your kid’s life. Dr. Kevin Leman: So I forgot the question. Oh, I remember now. It was Dr. Leman. You say, you got to treat your kids differently. Yeah, you do have to treat your kids differently. I’ll give you a little vignette out my life. When our daughter number two was born, it was a great day. I was so excited to have another little daughter. I was so excited, I hit two little old ladies in an intersection at a red light, in their car. I should say. Drove them across the intersection. In their little Ford Pinto car, and the Ford Pinto, if you remember, was not much of a car. Dr. Kevin Leman: I was driving my aunt’s big old 4 door Chevy sedan, which was probably twice as big as this little Pinto. And I damaged her car severely, and the Pinto was not in great shape either. I was so excited to have that little daughter but I remember looking at her the very first time I looked at her and I thought, she doesn’t look like Holly. That was my first thought. Well, Hey Leman, why should she look like Holly? She’s not Holly, she’s Kristin. Her given name is Kristin. The only person that ever called her Kristin was a motorcycle policemen. We call her Chrissy to this day. She’s the mother of two kids, married to Dennis for I think 20 years now. Anyway, your kids are different, and you know from biblical days forward, the firstborn son; talk about sexist, there it is. The first born son got more than his fair share of the father’s estate. Dr. Kevin Leman: So we’ve always given preferential treatment to firstborns. And you firstborns know that you’ve been groomed for success and responsibility, because you grew up with things like, I don’t care what she did, I don’t care what you said. You’re the oldest. I expect more out of you young woman or young man. So from the right, from the get go, you’ve been blessed or cursed, with a mantra of responsibility. That’s why so many of you end up in leadership positions, because we’ve created scenarios in our home where you’re the natural leader of the cubs in the den. Yet if you look at the Cubs as they come out of the den, they’re all unique and different. That’s the magic of all this. I mean, I’m telling you, Doug and Andrea, people do not get sick of talking about birth order. It’s fascinating how these three little cubs or nine little cubs pick your number, come out of the den and they’re so different, and you hear it all the time. Dr. Kevin Leman: My sister, my brother; night and day different. We have different interests, different jobs. Once in a while you’ll see a family where there’s four kids, three of them are young men and one young lady, and they’re all engineers. Very unusual, but you see it once in a while and guess what dad was? An engineer. So you have to treat kids differently. For those of you who are believers in the creator, almighty God, let me ask you a question. Does he treat us the same? Does all mighty God treat us the same? Do they all make us look alike? They give us the same gifts? Or tendencies? How about fingerprints? That’s a good one. Gave us all different fingerprints. So yeah, I’m not a preacher, but what the Bible says is, I knew you in your mother’s womb. I know the number of hairs on your head. Now, again, some of you are not people of faith. Dr. Kevin Leman: You just forget what I said. Won’t bring it up again, just making a point. But the fact is kids are different. So it’s a smart parent, who treats their kids differently. And, It’s very natural for us. Just like I did one little Chrissy, was born to make a comparison. Comparisons get us in all kinds of trouble, and kids resent that. So firstborn, children have a need for order in their life. They’re detailed oriented. You’re going to have to meet some of those details in their life. Here’s the problem, Dr. Lehman, neither my husband or myself are detailed oriented. Uh oh, well then my guess is this little firstborn son or daughter is going to be running your life before too long. They’re going to be reminding you that we need to do this, and we’re late for that and it’ll, it’ll flush out one way or another but, just rest assured these kids are different. Dr. Kevin Leman: They see life from behind their own individual lens, and they develop attributes and again, just for fun here. Firstborns: reliable, conscientious, lists makers, don’t like surprises. They tend to thrive in anything that’s perfectionistic, oriented. Occupations: doctors, surgeons, accountants, engineers, jewelers, anywhere where precision, architects, is the order of the day, you’re going to find an ordinance amount of first barn or only born children. It’s the political season if you haven’t noticed, but I was just looking at the candidates on the democratic side. Okay. Biden, firstborn, Mayor Pete, only child, Cory Booker, firstborn, Kamala, Harris, firstborn, Elizabeth Warren, firstborn daughter, three older brothers. She’s the first one if I remember to go to college and her family. Bernie, now Bernie says, I don’t want to get too political here, but Bernie says free everything. Of course, Bernie’s the baby of the family. Amy Klobuchar, whatever, how you spell her name or pronounce her name, I’m not sure, firstborn. It goes on and on and on. Beto O’Rourke, firstborn. Dr. Kevin Leman: I mean, are our leaders okay? In the PTO, at your school, in your church council, your pastor, your rabbi, they’re firstborn children in an order at numbers. Why? Because we groomed them to be leaders in the family. Now let me give you a little hook on this. Put two parents who are very perfectionistic on top of that firstborn child. Not only are they perfectionistic, but they’re very critical. They’re always shoulding. That’s S, H, O, U, L, D, i, N, G on that firstborn. Over a period of time, they will turn that potentially perfectionistic firstborn son or daughter, into a slob, a procrastinator, one that ends up defeating themselves, and becomes very self critical as well as critical of other people. So I laid out all the attributes of the first barn. I said, okay, here’s just one variable and see how that can turn that Apple cart upside down. So this is all about relationships. Our relationships with our kids. But again, we can do a whole series probably on this topic, Doug and Andrea, because it’s got so many little nooks and crannies in it. Andrea: So Doug asks, how do we parent fairly and differently? And you’ve just said that we parent the firstborn preferentially, so what does that, is that right? Is that wrong? And what does that mean for those lost middle children? Are we supposed to treat the firstborn preferentially? I’m, just curious. Dr. Kevin Leman: I don’t think we should be concerned with parenting fairly. Andrea: Alright. Dr. Kevin Leman: I don’t think that ought to be the emphasis, let’s get that off the table. Andrea: Okay. Dr. Kevin Leman: I think what you need to focus on, is parenting differently. Some kids are talkers, some kids are non talkers. I mean, think of families you know. Think of the, first two children in a family that you know. Isn’t it true that they’re night and day different? Andrea: Yeah. Dr. Kevin Leman: Well see what happens in birth order when that second born comes in the world and they become cognizant of the world around them. Their world is very, very small, when they’re little. It’s mom and dad and older sibling, or grandma and grandpa. Eventually preschool, and so forth, but their world is very small, but even when they’re very small. They look up and they see this firstborn and whatever path that firstborn has chosen. That second born child is going to go in a different direction. That’s almost a guarantee lock. Does it happen in all families? No, it doesn’t, but in most families, overwhelmingly the second born takes another path. So, if you have little miss goody two shoes, in the firstborn position of the family, you may have very well find little Attila in the second position. Because she is going to go way out of her way to be just the opposite of what little miss goody two shoes is. Dr. Kevin Leman: Again, if you want to read a fascinating book, and I mean fascinating, read The Birth Order Book. I mean many trees died in its honor. It’s sold like crazy over the years. I revised it for those of you who read the old birth order book years ago. The revised edition, which I think was revised maybe three years ago if I’m guessing right, maybe four years ago has 70% more material in it, more material, than the original version. Why? Because families have changed so much. We have so many divorce parents, so many blended families and just the nature of families has changed so, it’s an interesting read. But to answer your question and your observation, Andrea, pay attention to parenting your kids differently and don’t worry about the fairness factor. Andrea: Okay. Dr. Kevin Leman: Because I’m telling you life’s unfair. Your 16 year old would be driving the car. Your 14 year old is going to think it’s very unfair. It’s not unfair. The state of Oregon treats 16 year olds differently than the 14 year olds. Doug Terpening: Well before I ask my question about how that feels wrong, that I actually should do fairly. I want to, since you brought it up, what’s really cool is right now the ebook promo is actually tThe Birth Order Book. So if you want the new revised version of The Birth Order Book was 70% more material. You can get it between now and December 31st of 2019 for less than a Starbucks, for $2.99. How will owning The Birth Order help me parent differently, Dr. Leman? Dr. Kevin Leman: Oh wow. I’m so glad you mentioned Starbucks. My wife misses up. Hinton goes through Starbucks is $4.24. For a Starbucks. Give me a break. You can get The Birth Order Book. That’s a $16, $15.99 book, $16 book if I remember right. And by the way, I know we’re asking you, Hey, you can download it for a $1.99. Let me remind you, this is Christmas time. If you want to give a book that’s really going to help you figure out who you are, why you are the way you are, why your spouses the way they are, why your kids are the way they are. I don’t think there’s a better book to read than The Birth Order Book. The is part of the title The Birth Order Book. Some of you know this, I’ve said it many times. The original title was Abel had it coming and the publisher said, you can’t have a title like Abel had it coming. Dr. Kevin Leman: I still liked that title. But nevertheless, to answer your question, it’s a five star rated book. It knocks it out of the park. The light will go on as you read the book. Oh, that’s why she is the way she is. That’s why I am the way I am. Wow. I never noticed that that variable of an age gap of five years starts another family. That’s why my younger brother, who’s the sixth born is a fanatic. He’s a perfectionist to beat the band. He’s an English professor and a prestigious university. Now it makes sense. And so many of the relationships that you deal with daily will begin to make sense when you read The Birth Order Book. If you’re a business person. Wow. Do people buy things differently? Do firstborn children buy things differently than youngest children? Yes. What are the implications for you in marketing your product or service? Dr. Kevin Leman: I mean, there’s so many. Like I say little nooks, crannies, angles, so many useful things in The Birth Order Book. People always say, what’s the best book I’ve ever written? And I waiver. I have to tell you I waiver sometimes, but many times The Birth Order Book is what comes out of my mouth. Other times there’s a book I did called Sheet Music, which is a pretty blunt book about marital sex and marriage. It’s a, it’s a great one. Have a New Kid by Friday, Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours, The Way Of The Shepherd, which is a leadership book. There’s a lot of pretty good books out there, but this one I’m telling you, we’re offering it for $2.99. I’m telling you this is a great Christmas present for somebody. Doug Terpening: So get it now. You only got a little while until December 31st to get this book for $2.99 between now and the end of 2019. Wherever eBooks are sold, this was Andrea’s, one of Andrea’s favorite books that she read and she learned a ton about herself through that book. So, highly recommend it. And now a no nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Kevin Leman: Let’s talk about a word purposive. That’s a word you haven’t used today. You haven’t used this week, this month or probably this year. It’s not a word that easily sneaks its way into our vocabulary. It’s actually a psychological word derived from the school of individual psychology, which Alfred Adler who was a psychiatrist in Vienna many years ago, brought to our attention. This is the say that every social behavior your child engages in serves a purpose in a child’s life. All kids start off in life as attention getters, and they’re either going to get positive attention, or negative attention. So when a kid throws a temper tantrum ,or has a meltdown, what’s the purpose of nature of the behavior? That’s what I want you to ask yourself. The nature of the behavior is to show you that they are in authority over you. That they’re the ones that run the family. Dr. Kevin Leman: And again, I’m here to tell you that there’s kids shortened a yardstick that are in full control of their families today. So the next time your kid acts up, or gives you that defiant look, and by the way, that kid that gives you the defiant look and then slams the door, and says, you’ll never let me do anything. There is your powerful child. Again, you have a powerful child. There’s a powerful parent nearby. Dr. Kevin Leman: Power does not work in bringing up children today. Being in healthy authority over them, and being a person with limits, does a lot for kids self-esteem. Kids want boundaries, so purpose of behavior, serves a purpose in a child’s life for the powerful child. He simply says, I only count when I dominate, when in control. And of course the attention getter says, I only count a life when I put other people in my service or I get attention. In fact, you don’t even want me talking about the revengeful child, and there are around many of them have hit juvenile court in teenage years. They’re the ones whose mantra in life is, I feel hurt by life, therefore, I have a right to strike out at others. Hope you don’t have one of those at home. Take care. Have a great day and watch out for purposive behavior. Doug Terpening: Okay. Dr. Leman, I’d like to come back to the issue of fairness, don’t be fair, but be different. Yet within the Terpening household, as our kids have gotten older, one of the common things that we’ve heard is the baby gets away with A, murder and B, she gets everything sooner. She, gets to stay up late earlier and she gets to do this earlier and they’re like, are we wrong? It seems wrong that people get different privileges at different times that we’re not creating competition or jealousy with our kids. Dr. Kevin Leman: Well, a guy named Alfred Adler called it striving for superiority, and it’s a little bit like kids on top of a hill trying to be the King or Queen of the hill, where you push other kids down the sand pile or the dirt pile. So you’re always going to hear that from younger children ,about older children. Or, you’ll hear an oldest say something about the baby, the family. She gets away with murder, she gets anything she wants, he can do as he pleases. Well, there’s reasons for that. We were down as parents. I mean after the fourth child, give me a break. You’re just trying to get dinner. In fact I always like to say by the time the fourth born rolls around, we worried about everything the firstborn ever ate. Fourth born comes into your life, you grab some food and throw it on the floor and say dinner’s ready. Dr. Kevin Leman: I mean there’s a wearing down, there’s a education as parents add to their quiver ,and bring another little cub into their den. So those kinds of things. I remember my all time great one-liner I use with my own kids ,because one would say, how come she got that? And I didn’t get that? Or whatever. I would say, honey, it’s because you know your mother and I love her so much more than we love you. It was obviously tongue in cheek and she’d roll her eyes and say, dad, cause she knew that wasn’t true. But, you just got to play with that stuff a little bit and realize that when a kid’s complaining about getting something, for example. Well honey, do you want me to treat you like a treat your little sister? Yes, the kid says, fine, your bedtime is now 8:30 instead of 9:00. Dr. Kevin Leman: Oh no, I don’t mean that. What do you mean? You mean literally you’re just a hedonistic little sucker, who can’t stand the fact that your sister got something that you didn’t. I got news for you in life that’s going to happen. Other people are going to get things that you’re not going to get. It’s called reality discipline. And so what I’m posing to parents is the home is a microcosm of what your kids are going to experience in life. They’re going to experience disappointment, they’re going to experience things that aren’t fair or whatever. But our job is to try to help kids to deal with those curve balls in life. I think what we do here on our podcast, helps parents become much more resilient and much more authoritative, and much more well balanced. The kids are kids. They’re going to say and do stupid things. You’ve got to remember that the way it is. You’re the adult. Doug Terpening: That’s really interesting to me in the fact that you say that we have to help our kids develop psychological muscles. And you’re saying, yeah, life is not fair. Home is not fair. Tell the kids that’s the reality of the way the world works. Mom’s not perfect, Dad’s not perfect. Build a bridge and get over it. Well you wouldn’t say that but, so you’re saying…. Dr. Kevin Leman: The flip side is we love each other, we care about each other, we encourage you, you can do this. Honey, I know it’s not easy. You know, I’ve told the story many times. I still remember being cut from the basketball team, and I got my clothes out of my locker and tucked them under my arm, and ran home with snow on the ground, crying my eyes out that I got cut. So you know, those things are still with us. My baseball coach said Leman. If he can’t play third, at least look like he can play third base and tuck your shirt in. Dr. Kevin Leman: That same coach on a Saturday morning, we’re packing our gear to take a van down to Bloomington, Illinois, where we had a double header schedule with Illinois Wesleyan University. The coach walks by my locker and there’s two guys next to me. They’re packing up their stuff and he says, Leman and I don’t think we’re going to need you this weekend. You know? I mean, ouch. Yeah. I mean I’m old, I’m near death and still remember those things. But as moon had said, my best buddy, he said Leman, you know what? The fact that you graduated right near the bottom of the class and everybody said you’d never become anything, believe me, that’s one of the reasons why you were successful in life. And he’s probably right. Doug Terpening: So you’re saying we don’t have to worry about being fair to our kids because A, we love them and we’re trying to do, right. B, you’re saying know, your kids. So know the differences. Like, you’re right, James loves order and he has said repeatedly to us when I have a family, we will be on time cause the Terpening’s are never on time. So he, it’s very funny, but know them, know those things about them. And, be aware of them, read The Birth Order Book, which will truly help you. But don’t worry about always being fair. Right? Know what your kids need and do that. And if you aren’t, it’s okay to say that’s just the way life is, for their sake actually. Did I get that right? Or what do I need to change? Dr. Kevin Leman: I’m just so thankful you just decided to do this. A podcast today and you know, birth order is so old hat to me. I mean I live it, breathe it and, we just scratched the surface today. I hope that you’ll schedule some more where we can go into a birth order. So far we’ve said, Hey, treat your kids differently. We talked about the firstborn and the leadership, but the poor middle children, they’ve said, Hey, I haven’t even mentioned as well. I just did. I just said middle children, so don’t say I didn’t say it. Andrea: I was going to ask about them. Doug Terpening: Andrea as a recovering middle child. Dr. Kevin Leman: Yeah. I’m suggesting that we, we do a podcast on middle children. A podcast all for themselves, all middle children, and then we’ll do what I’m maybe the youngest child, or maybe the only child. I think we should do several podcasts is what I’m saying at birth order. I think that would be good. I think people tend to enjoy them. That’s my take. I get a lot of feedback that “give us more on birth order”. So I’ll let you be the judge of that. You guys are the boss of me. Doug Terpening: Well thank you for that suggestion, and also thank you for freeing us from having to be perfect and always fair to our kids. And that we can tell them this is the way the real world works, and not feel like terrible parents as long as we’re not just abusing it, right? But that’s kind of freeing to say to our kids. Andrea: Well, like you pointed out, Doug, we have to know each kid and we have to know what they need and what their struggles are. Doug Terpening: And you’re great at that, Andrea. Like this morning, my lovely wife pulled me aside and said, you know what honey, I think you need to do this with the child because you’re not doing it. And I said, why? She said, I think because they need it. Right. So yeah. Thanks Andrea. Anything else? Dr. Leman as we wrap up? Dr. Kevin Leman: Well, you know what? In most, marriages, isn’t it true that one of us is more perceptive of social relationships? Doug Terpening: Yep. And that’s why it’s important to listen to each other, and know what the other person can do. Dr. Kevin Leman: Yeah. Doug Terpening: Absolutely. Dr. Kevin Leman: Yeah. Well, I hope we’ll. How much time do we have left? Are we winding it down? Doug Terpening: We are actually at the end here. We are regretfully. So we’ll have to add another one in about the middle children. How do you help parent the middle children? Andrea look at her. Andrea: We’re both middle children Doug. Doug Terpening: I’m the first boy and I was the privileged one. Andrea: Oh I see you got preferential treatment because you were the boy. Dr. Kevin Leman: Yeah, he does have some privilege. Yeah. I think it’d be good too, to talk about why it’s important to get behind the eyes of that second child, that middle child, that youngest child. Andrea: We’ll do that next time. Dr. Kevin Leman: To see how, how they see life. So if you can help remember that on a future podcast, let’s tackle that as well. Doug Terpening: We’ll do that next week. Get behind the eyes of the middle child. Well we’ll wrap this one up. Thank you guys for being here and thank you Dr. Leman again for helping us realize that we’re trying to raise adults, and not perfect children,, and that part of life is life’s not fair and don’t, lie to your kids and make it that way. And thank you. Also, Baker Books for offering The Birth Order Book for $2.99 between now and the end of the year, which is, please read it for your sake again to understand yourself and then your kids will help you out. Andrea: It’s fascinating and fun to read. Doug Terpening: It is fun to read. It is a really fun, and thank you for everyone that joined us today. We love being with you and we look forward to the next time to add to that parenting toolbox so you can love those kids more and more. Andrea: Have a good one. Doug Terpening: Take care. Bye bye.

It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman: “What do I do when my son blatantly ignores me?” Listen in to find out Dr. Leman’s insights on this child’s behavior.   **Special Offer– Dec 1 – 16: Stopping Stress before It Stops You ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript

The holidays are supposed to be a time of peace and joy, but sometimes our families just seem to ruin the holiday cheer. On today’s episode, Dr. Leman walks through navigating the holidays while avoiding resentment and bad memories.   **Special Offer– Dec 1 – 16: Stopping Stress before It Stops You ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: Woohoo. It’s that magical time of the year again, when we get together with people that we love, but we hate to be with them. How do you deal with the holidays? How do you deal with having the people you’re supposed to love, but it ends in yelling and fights, and just that awkward silence? That’s the question we get to ask Dr. Leman today. Doug: Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: And I’m Andrea. Doug: And we are so happy that you are with us today, and welcome to the holiday season. And if you’re hearing this after the holiday season, welcome to post holiday seasons, but for those of us that are listening currently, it’s the holiday season, and we get to ask Dr. Leman about this. If this is your first time with us, we want to let you know that this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or a child, please go seek a local professional for help. Doug: Well, Dr. Leman, I may have asked this question years ago, but I’m going to ask it again. Did you ever get that sweet gift when you were a kid that you’re like, “Oh, I always remember the” blah-blah-blah gift? Dr. Leman: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We were poor to begin with, okay? As a kid, we had stockings, but they were filled with things like oranges, tangerines, nuts. If there was a little goodie in there, you were lucky. So we didn’t have much in terms of things. Dr. Leman: And one of the Christmas gifts I remember best was I saw this yellow with a blue stripe down the center of it football helmet that I wanted, and I was probably eight, nine, 10 years old. But I knew my parents couldn’t afford that. But I’d walk by this sporting goods store, and I’d see it. I’d wish for it, and, again, I just knew I wouldn’t get it. But I remember that Sunday morning coming down the stairs, and seeing the Christmas tree, and flicking on the lights, and seeing this bright yellow helmet under the tree. Dr. Leman: Yeah, I think we all have those memories of little things, big things early in our childhood that surprised us or whatever. We tend to remember little things in life. I wrote a book about early childhood memories. It’s a fascinating book to read, by the way. If somebody tells me, “Hey, have you got a fascinating book to read,” I would say, “Yeah, read what your early childhood memories say about you. It helps connect a lot of the dots.” Dr. Leman: So, yeah. To answer your question, yeah. Doug: So today’s question for you is at the holiday season, we get back together with people that we love, but often it can end in yelling, or the classic silence and everybody just watches the football game, and hopes that it ends soon. And mom’s trying to make everybody happy. How do we deal with all those crazy [crosstalk 00:02:52]- Dr. Leman: You forgot drunk Uncle Harold. Yeah. Oh, gosh, I’ve heard so many stories. Dr. Leman: The Christmas season that we’re surely into is supposed to be this joyous, euphoric time, where we celebrate the Lord’s birth, and we have drifted so far away from that. We’re not even close. It’s become a sideshow in so many ways. I remember being in I think it was Costco in maybe late September, early October, and they had all the Christmas things in there, and I thought, “Oh my goodness, this is crazy.” Dr. Leman: So yeah, sugar plums are supposed to be dancing in our heads, and so many people, the stress level in their life has ramped up because it’s your husband’s turn to have his family come for the holidays, or it’s your wife’s turn for her family to show up. Dr. Leman: And all I ask people to do is to think back to last Christmas. Now, some of you have repressed last Christmas. I’m a shrink. I understand that, okay? Try to pull that up. I know you don’t want to remember it, but what was it like? Now, ask yourself this question: is there a snowball’s chance in H-E-double-hockey-sticks that it’s going to be any different this year, and if so, why? Some of you are saying because Uncle Harold passed away in June. My condolences. But, again, whatever was is going to repeat itself when it comes to getting family together because all the old rivalries, whatever they are … Dr. Leman: We all grew up in different families. What do I mean by that? Your sister, who was six years older than you were, grew up in a different family. Your brother, who was two years older than you, grew up in a different family because with the birth of each child, the family changes. And we all have our biased perceptions of what reality is, and we take that baggage, so to speak, into our relationship, and now you’re joined in holy matrimony with this man or woman, and all of their baggage comes together. We’ve said many times on our podcasts when two people marry, it’s actually at least six because you marry your in-laws. Dr. Leman: And so all these ingredients are an explosion waiting for an Ohio blue tip match to be struck, and that’s why people hate the holidays in terms of getting together with family. Dr. Leman: And one of my primary suggestions to you today is if you have family invading your home, that is one of the biggest complaints that I’ve heard about over the years, I would suggest finding an alternate place for the invaders to spend the days with you over the holidays, no matter how many days those are. Which means a hotel, and a lot of places have great specials over the holiday season because they don’t have the business traffic that they have. There’s lots of creative ways you can do that. Sometimes you just have to have some straight talk with your relatives and say, “Listen, you know what? If you recall, last year ended up with a big fight, and everybody went home very unhappy, and we haven’t talked much about it since then.” And that’s usually what happens when there’s a blowout. “Do we really want to get together this Christmas? Do you feel obligated? I feel obligated. I don’t know if you feel the same way as I do.” Dr. Leman: But I’d have that kind of a talk, and maybe you agree not to get together this holiday season. And somebody saying, “Now, wait a minute. Our mom is in her eighties, and we don’t know how much longer she’s going to be on this earth, and we think it’s important to get together.” Well, then put on the big boy pants, big girl pants, solve the problems that need to be solved, and enjoy Mom and the holidays. Find a way to enjoy it, but it might take some restructuring of how you all come together so when you’re together, you have some rest periods in neutral corners, meaning they’re not under roof for five days, or whatever it is. Dr. Leman: So that’s my initial thoughts on the topic that you’ve thrown out this morning, Doug and Andrea. Andrea: I’m thinking about it as a parent, and sometimes maybe there’s some tension between me and my sisters, or with my parents, or in-laws, but my kids, for the most part, have really good memories of being together with their cousins and aunts and uncles and grandparents. But I don’t want them to be tainted by the little explosions or big explosions that happen. So as this is a parenting podcast, and we’re talking about helping our kids, what suggestions do you have for us as parents so that we can make this positive for our kids? Because I do want them to have a relationship with their grandparents. I do want them to have a good relationship with their aunts and uncles, and have fun times with their cousins in their jammies by the fire. That’s what I’m thinking about. Dr. Leman: Well, you’ve unearthed a nugget, as you usually do, for us to think about because the reality is … See, the tension is at the adult level, and the kids, for the most part, oblivious to what’s going on. The kids get informed when you’re driving home from Uncle Harold’s house, and you start badmouthing Uncle Harold and Aunt Mabel. So the damage is done after the fact where the kids are hearing poisonous conversations about people that they love and they have fun with. Not that they have fun with the adults, per se, as much as they do with the kids, the cousins and stuff. Dr. Leman: But I remember as a kid just go into uncles’ homes and, us kids, we’d be running the whole time. We were just into one thing and another. And if somebody had a new toy, today it’s video games and so forth, we were playing those games because they were new to us. There was something that they had at that house that we didn’t have at our house, et cetera. And, again, I think kids for the most part are oblivious about what’s going on with parental friction. Dr. Leman: But, again, I caution you as parents, don’t bring that up in the car on the way home from an evening with friends, or relatives, or what have you. If you want to talk about that, talk about that in the privacy of your home without little ears listening. But I think your point’s a great one, Andrea. Thank you for bringing that up. Doug: Since Andrea has helped us think this is a parenting podcast, are there steps that we can take today with our kids so that when we’re the old folks and we’re Grandma and Grandpa that it’s a pleasant experience for them? Dr. Leman: I think the job you do, number one, as a parent today is a pretty good predictor of how close those Terpening kids are going to be someday. When you guys are old and foggy, okay, my guess is those four kids are going to be really close, and their moments that they share with hopefully Grandma and Grandpa at that stage will be cherished by them. Dr. Leman: I know myself, I get notes from my kids. “Dad, I cherish every moment I have with you.” Every moment. How cool is that? I’m telling you, parents, what you do today in rearing your kids, and we’re glad you’re listening to this podcast because we think this podcast offers a lot of practical help for parents to be good parents. And notice we’re not saying you ought to be a great parent. Just a good parent. You’re flawed to the core to begin with, so who’s kidding who? Dr. Leman: But if you have that good relationship with your kids, that’s going to come back to you later on in life, I think, Doug. Doug: So let’s play the Christmas scenario. We’re at … was it Uncle Harold’s house? Right? And all of a sudden, Aunt May and Uncle Harold have decided they’re going to do their normal fight, and all of a sudden the tension rises in the room. Help us as adults then. We’re there. It’s awkward for all of us. What should our mindset be then so that it doesn’t affect our kids? What would you say to that? Dr. Leman: Yeah, I think somebody gives the time-out sign, and usually where you’re revisiting things. You’re digging up old bones. That’s usually what happens. It’s usually not something that’s new to everybody. It’s an old bone that somebody’s digging up and throwing in somebody’s face. Some adult has to say, “Hey, time out. This is not the time to talk about this. We have lots of young ears here. Let’s talk about that another time.” Okay? In other words, don’t put the dog and pony show in front of all the kids. Dr. Leman: And that’s why I say to parents don’t talk about or bad mouth family or friends or whatever in the car on the way home, because the kids are listening and they’re taking notes. So keep the peace, let the peace flow. I think you have to bend. Everybody has to bend a little bit to make things good. Dr. Leman: And, again, if it’s every year, and it doesn’t get better, then, parents, think about maybe doing things different this year at the adult level, where you’re just not under the roof all the time. Doug: I have a question about how to get that done, but before I ask that question, I want to talk about the ebook release, which is kind of interesting because the title is Stopping Stress Before It Stops You for $1.99 December 3 through 16 of 2019. How would this book help us when we’re talking about this, Dr. Leman? Dr. Leman: Well, stress is a part of our life every day, okay? But in that book, I ask some pretty tough questions. Questions like what are your feelings going to be standing next to the coffin of your wife next Friday? What are your feelings going to be standing next to the coffin of your husband next Saturday? I ask questions in that book that help you focus in on what’s really important in life, and stress is, like I say, it’s a part of our everyday living, but lots of times we create the stress. Dr. Leman: There’s an author, Dr. Archibald Hart, who makes the point that he thinks that we become addicted to our own adrenaline our body produces because we live such a hurried lifestyle. The “busy hands are happy hands” theory. So, anyway, it’s a book that’s full of practical suggestions about taking a look at the priorities in your life, and how to deal with stress, even from a physical standpoint. Dr. Leman: I know in private practice for approximately 40 years when people were just anxious and stressed, I always said, “Physical exercise is really a good release for that,” and it is. Talk to your physician about what just a 20 minute brisk walk will do for your numbers when you have your blood work done. So physical, and then there’s emotional release by talking about things that bother you. It’s just a very handy, practical book. It’s been around forever, and so has stress, and all these books- Doug: And it’s not going away. Dr. Leman: Yeah. All these books that we offer are practical and helpful, and at $1.99, give me a break. Doug: For $1.99 to reduce stress in your life, which everybody feels in increased quantities. So get it now between now and December 16th of 2019. And now a no-nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: Listen carefully. The man who is saying what he is about to say is really not off his rocker. Just stay with me for a little bit, would you? Outside activities for kids are not good. Yes, you heard that right. Outside activities for kids. Dr. Leman: Now, Leman, Leman, Leman. There you go again. What do you mean, outside activities aren’t good for kids? My kid is in Little League. We love Little League. Okay, you got me. I give up. Both hands are skyward. So let’s go with limit outside activities for kids. And here’s the problem, folks. If you have three children, and each of them just has one outside activity, you’re going to go bonkers trying to keep up with them. You’re going to be shuttling kids from one activity to another, and at whose expense? At your expense. And, check this out, I think at their expense as well, because the more activity and the more people engaged in your kids’ lives when they’re young dilutes the indelible imprint that you get a chance to give to your own kids. Dr. Leman: I think, quite frankly, some of us are addicted to our own adrenaline that our own body produces from rushing from event to event. I marvel at how young families make it today when both of them are working and they have children, and you want to put activities on top of that? Dr. Leman: So, again, for you parents who have little older kids, it’s time for discussion around the dinner table to say, “Hey, you know what? I think we all have a little bit too much on our plate. What can we do this next year, this next semester? Any way you want to say it, this next month, to limit things so that we have more time for ourselves, more time for each other, and more time for our family?” Doug: So Dr. Leman, we’ll all be transparent on the Terpening Family side of things, clan. We historically have the same family dynamics that some adults want to watch football and some adults hate football, and some adults want to eat bad food and some adults want to eat good food, and some adults are like, “I have older kids,” and I have younger kids. And like to suggest something can create tension, let alone trying to get everybody to go forward. Dr. Leman: Let’s talk about bad food for a second. Wouldn’t it be fun- Andrea: No! No! Dr. Leman: When we have a lot of people over, okay, and my wife is Martha Stewart on steroids. Okay? She’s very creative. She presents things great. She’s a great cook. Lots of times because we have maybe 12 people over at the house, or 14, for dinner, rather than serve everybody, she’ll put everything out in our kitchen and whatever you call the counter, I guess- Andrea: The island? Dr. Leman: In the middle of the kitchen. Yeah, it’s soap something. Soapstone. I know that. Somebody asked her the other day, “Is this soapstone?” It’s soapstone, whatever that means. Dr. Leman: And I think it’d be fun to put little flags, little sticky notes, like they look like flags. I’m looking at the one I have in front of me right now. It’s like those little yellow pads, only mine says Leman Academy of Excellence on it. But wouldn’t it be fun to put little toothpicks in food and say “Good food,” “Bad food,” “Good food.” Andrea: No, they should have a particular color. Green for good, red for bad. Dr. Leman: All I’m saying, I think when you have something that’s really rich and full of calories that are fat or whatever, McDonald’s even posts how many calories in their things. I think you could have fun with stuff like that when you have people who have such diverse tastes, and if I’m hosting that, I’m going to keep that in mind because you got old Uncle Marvin that hasn’t eaten a vegetable in his life, so you better have some potatoes for the guy or he’s going to die. Dr. Leman: And so you’ve got the meat and potato person, and then you got a guy who has got celery breath he eats so much of it. You have an array. Dr. Leman: The other thought on your question is for some of us, I think you have to have this conversation between the two adults in your home. “Hey, honey, it’s only three days. And I know these are really three tough days on you, and believe me, they’re not pleasant for me either. But let’s face it, I’m a little better at dealing with your family than you are. So tell me, how can I help you during these three days that are coming? Let me know. Just tell me what I can do, and I’ll do my best to help you.” Dr. Leman: “Conversely, here’s some things you can do for me.” So there’s an even exchange of, “Okay, here’s three things you can do for me, and three things I can do for you. We switch those things. Here we are. We’re looking at it. We know what we expect of each other, and then we’re facing the enemy that is your relatives jointly on the same page.” Dr. Leman: And that’s the best I can offer. If you’re going to have them around, then you need to get on the same page. Ask each other what we can do to help each other get through this, and go from there. Dr. Leman: Activities are great. When you’re all together, you find that there’s a special down the road on horseback riding for everybody, or you name it, an activity or bowling. Get them out of the house. Let them go and do some things together. Have weird Uncle Marvin take the kids bowling, or ice skating, or you name it. Be activity driven. Dr. Leman: I always tell people when they’re nervous about dating and all that, go out on an activity. Activity gives you other things to focus on other than just the two of you. So I think that makes sense. These are difficult. There’s no lockstep, “here’s your answer wrapped with a bow.” You’ve got to be creative with these things. Doug: Well, and because it’s a parenting podcast, I want to come back to how you helped us, Andrea, keep it on point is that, A, if you can make it more fun for your kids, they’re going to have better memories of, like you said, Dr. Leman, of Christmastime. And then they’re going to want to be around with you. But if you’re always bad mouthing everybody, they’re going to think Christmases are miserable. Doug: But I got to go back to something you just said. So a couple of years ago, we did exactly what you did. We separated into multiple houses, and then sweet Mrs. Terpening planned all these activities, which upset some people, but she still planned all these activities for people. And people will tell you it was the best Christmas we had, right? Because we were out and about, and we didn’t stay inside the house. You’re absolutely right. And we even did have some bad food, good food. Andrea: Without flags. Dr. Leman: All right, so listen. If you guys need more help, write to Mrs. Terpening in care of general delivery, Oregon, and she will personally answer your letter. Doug: No, I’m just affirming to you. We just stumbled upon it, really. Yeah, you said it more succinctly and well. So that’s great news. Doug: So we hope that this helps all of you parents that as you’re jumping into this season, for your sake and for your kids’ sake, I thought that was a great question, Andrea. Don’t badmouth Uncle Harold and Aunt May for what they do, and how much you’re upset. And if you are, do it privately for their sake. And remember, the kids think it’s great. And find solutions, and don’t argue in front of the kids. Go to hotels, not all under the same roof, and do activities, and your kids will enjoy the activities. So that’s a great one. Doug: Well, thanks for being with us, and we hope this helps you as you come to the holiday seasons, and that it adds another tool to your parenting toolbox, so that you can just have a great time for the holidays and love those kids. Andrea: Have a great week. Doug: Look forward to next time. Take care. Andrea: Bye-bye.

It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman: “What do we do when our gifted 7-year-old is also gifted in meltdowns?” Find out Dr. Leman’s analysis of Anita’s question on today’s episode.   **Special Offer– Nov 12 – 30: Have a New Sex Life by Friday ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: On today’s podcast Anita tells us her child is incredibly gifted academically and has been since birth. But now at age seven she’s gifted in meltdowns. Dr Leman, help us figure out what do I do with these meltdowns? That’s the question we get to ask Dr Leman and we get to hear his answer. Doug: Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: And I’m Andrea. Doug: And we are so glad that you are with us today. It is just a joy to be with you. And we just want to let you know if this happens to be your first time, this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or a child, please go seek a local professional for help. If you’re listening for your first time or you’ve bounced around and you haven’t heard this yet, I’ll say it real quick. Go to birthorderguy.com/podcastquestions and leave us questions right there. So let’s hear Anita’s question. Anita: Hi there, Dr Leman. My name is Anita. My husband Brad and I live in central Alberta, Canada. And I just wanted to take a minute and say thank you so much for the podcast. They’re a huge help to me as well as your books. Anita: We have two beautiful daughters, ages seven and one. And I am a homeschooling stay at home mom to a very academically gifted seven year old. We have known from day one that this little girl just does everything with just that little bit extra, and to this day that includes her meltdowns. Her wheels turn just that much faster than your average kid, and then mine frankly. Anita: And my biggest challenge, especially since we are homeschooling so she can work at her own speed, is how to just consistently navigate her turbulent waters. Being a gifted child, her development is incredibly asynchronous. Her academic intelligence, I guess just progress’s that much faster than her emotional intelligence. So what is the best thing that I can be doing and my husband can be doing as her parents to navigate this challenge? Thank you so much. Dr. Leman: Well, we have a future jeopardy contestant on our hands. Little miss seven year old. Well, let me tell you what I normally tell people who have kids who are gifted, and I’m not trying to be smart or sarcastic, but I usually say my condolences, because really academically gifted children tend to have more than their share of mental problems as they get older. They can be a handful and as you said, life can be turbulent in her world and emotional meltdowns. Dr. Leman: Okay, class everybody in the podcast. What is the purpose of nature of a meltdown? What’s the purpose? Where did that meltdown come from? Did it come from the cereal seven year old ate in the morning? Was it something that mom dispensed to her one way? Or another or is it true that she created the meltdown, distributed that meltdown for a purpose? Now, sometimes that purpose is just for release with kids who are academically gifted. Why is that? Why would I say that? Because they have expectations for themselves much higher than they need to be. And so as a teacher, you’re homeschooled in this kid, I would watch my level of expectation I had for my seven year old. And to be functional with you and practical with you, when the meltdown occurs, school is over for the day. That’s it. Because these meltdowns, my guess is, are going to become worse and they’re going to be become more frequent. So you want to try to nip them in the bud as best you can. Dr. Leman: Again, kids that are academically gifted tend to be perfectionists and so the meltdowns come when all of a sudden things don’t line up the way seven year old thinks they ought to be. And she needs a good dose of reality discipline where she sees that life isn’t always perfect. I think conversations between seven year old and mom and dad along the line of things that we have learned in life where we have failed, should be highlighted conversations in your home. Dr. Leman: I think homeschooling a kid like this can really be a tall task for a mom or dad. Personally, I would not do that. I would have that kid in a school and I would supplement whatever school offers, in the home. I’m assuming your seven year old is a veracious reader, and as I’ve said on podcast many times, if your kid’s a veracious reader, don’t worry about their education, they’re going to teach themselves because they’re going to be so curious. They’re going to be going from one book to another to another. Dr. Leman: So for openers, those are my initial thoughts, Anita, about kids who are academically gifted. Andrea: Do you think that mom or dad or mom and dad are perfectionist as well? Dr. Leman: They could be, very well, yeah. Here’s what you have to hear, Anita, perfectionism is slow suicide. It guarantees unhappiness in life. The joy of life is giving it your best shot, knowing you did good, not that you did perfect. Dr. Leman: I love to use the examples of woodworkers. If you’ve ever met anybody who is a true craftsman. Now when I say craftsmen, craftswoman, craftsman, I don’t care, either sex, but people who can take raw wood and make things out of it. You talk about a gift and a talent, that’s it. But watch what happens when their display or someone finds out that they made a cabinet or a gun rack or whatever they made, people begin to Ooh and ahh over it. I’ve talked to enough of these people to know what goes inside their mind. They’re thinking, if you only knew that small flaw on the backside, you’d never say that. Because these people who are so skilled have an innate ability to find the little minute flaw. I call it the spit in your soup. It’s that one little thing, but it ruins everything. Dr. Leman: And people who are very skilled and very perfectionistic in their trade, whether they’re engineers or accountants, anywhere where perfectionist paid off, if you throw him a curve ball, most of those people do not handle those curve balls well, because they live on the all or none theory. And that might be part of what the frustration you’re little seven year old is having in your home. And if the lovely Mrs. Terpenings analysis is correct, that may be a mom or dad is also a perfectionist, that would be, I think in a longterm disastrous as you continue to try to teach her if you’re a perfectionist yourself. Andrea: So if you could paint a picture, kind of role playing almost, this little girl now has had her meltdown and it’s 10:00 AM and you said that Anita should stop school for the day. What would you suggest they do for the rest of the day now that she’s had a meltdown? Dr. Leman: I think that seven year old ought to do whatever she’d like to do. Andrea: Oh, okay. Dr. Leman: But she asked to know that for the school day, she got an incomplete. I don’t know what the grade system is in her home or if they even used one, but there should be a negative connotation that’s given to her for the meltdown because I didn’t create it as the teacher. The kid created the meltdown. Andrea: But what if this girl, what she wants to do now is to go and dive back into her math because she’s got to prove to herself and to the world that she can still do it? I could see this happening where as a perfectionist, what I want to do now is get back into school and mom’s saying, I can’t. Would there be something else like mom says we’re going to go- Dr. Leman: Yeah, school is over today. Andrea: We’re going to go to the park and you’re just going to play like a kid, get away from the books. Dr. Leman: And that’s great. I think going to the park and whatever and chill on whatever you’re doing or go to the zoo, I have no problem with that at all. But I have no problem with a kid going to her bedroom and reading or whatever. But school’s over for the day. You need a way of conveying that. I’m not going to go through this meltdown thing, because with the meltdown goes all the drama. Again, and the reason the drama continues is because somebody paying attention to the drama or that to a dissipate into thin air. And if you want to have a meltdown, I’d really appreciate it if you’d just have it in your room or depending upon where you live, of course, she lives in the middle of Alberta so you wouldn’t say, honey, go outside. It’s only 30 degrees bellow. Doug: So I’m surprised that, or maybe you did slightly say this, is that, by Anita saying my child is very or extremely gifted, you set this girl up almost for failure by already putting her at this elevated spot. And you’ve said multiple times on this podcast that most people are not truly gifted individuals. That what we labeled gifted is really not. How do we help Anita find out if this child really is truly gifted or if she’s just setting, like you said, expectations that are wrong for this child? Dr. Leman: Well, listen, Doug, that’s a good point. Sometimes parents, I’ve had parents look me in the eye and tell me their child is gifted because they can count from one to 10 backwards and the kid’s three years old. I’ve had parents say, I’m making this up. There are ways of having kids evaluated obviously through your school systems and all that. Dr. Leman: I’m just saying it can be oil and water if a parent is a perfectionistic person themselves. I think these kids need encouragement and they need a lot of time sharing life with kids their own age. Now my guess is the little seven year old doesn’t have a lot of friends her age, I’d bet anything on that. My guess is if she’s got a friend, the friend might be 12 years old for example, and she’s seven, because these kids, and I know there’s a little baby age one in the family, but she’s functionally an only child. There’s a six year gap between her and the little one. So she’s grown up an only child, which means there’s a right way to do things and perfection is paid off. And again, what she needs more than academic training is social capabilities. And the only way to develop those social capabilities is to be around other kids. Dr. Leman: So I would be looking for some things if I’m homeschooling the child or part of the curriculum, so to speak, is being in a group with other kids, doing activities of various kinds. Doug: Well before we finish with our questions, I want to make sure that I let you know about the ebook promotion that’s available right now, and actually I don’t know if I’ve ever seen this title before, so I’m very curious to find out what this book is about. So the ebook is Stopping Stress Before It Stops Yo, for a $1.99 from December 1st to the 16th of 2019. So Dr Leman, what is the book Stopping Stressed Before It stops You about? Dr. Leman: I’ll tell you, but we’re going to give Andrea a quiz first. Andrea, here’s a quiz. I know you can handle this. What’s the number one stressor in a woman’s life? Andrea: Her husband. Dr. Leman: Just one word [inaudible 00:12:05]. Andrea: What’s the second stressor in a woman’s life? Dr. Leman: Kids. Okay. What’s the third stressor in a woman’s life?You’re doing very well by the way. Andrea: Her friends or keeping up her home. Dr. Leman: Okay, that’s all good. All right. I did a survey and I surveyed woman with simple, it was a simple survey named the three stressors in life. Number one was children. Number two was husband. Number three was… Do you want to take a shot at it Doug? Doug: I would’ve thought it was keeping up with my other girlfriends, like having to appear. Dr. Leman: All right, well we’re close. It’s time. Time. Women today have a hard time finding time just to do what’s on their plate, but certainly finding time for me, as they say. Me time. So that book is about challenging women to understand that stress is a killer. It can really take its toll and stress tends to come out where? Our stomach, our back, our neck, headaches, all those kinds of things. And it’s a very practical way of getting people to see what’s really important in life. So it’s sort of a value driven book in many ways. And how to prioritize, for example, with children. I know it’s number one is stressor, but how much of the stress do you create by not keeping them responsible and accountable for what they do? It’s that kind of thing. Dr. Leman: But it’s a good little book and it’s been around for a long time. I revised it several years ago. I can’t tell you exactly when, but Stopping Stress Before It Stops You. There’s a warning in that title. Stress is not good for us. Doug: I don’t, I don’t know if I like you asking Andrea the questions because her first stress was me. I’m thinking, huh, this is a new one for me- Andrea: No, that’s not how he asked the question. He said, “What it is the women’s number one? Doug: Yeah, right. Whatever, whatever. Now that I know that I’m her biggest pain in the rear, I can move on. Thanks Andrea. Great day. Thanks Dr Leman. Glad job on our marriage. Appreciate it bud. Doug: So Stopping Stress Before It Stops You, $1.99. Dr. Leman: listen, if it’ll give feel better Doug, I’m going to give you the father of the year award. How’s that? And husband of the year. There you go. You’ve got two awards here. Doug: Oh wow. Do I get a coupon to a restaurant with it or not? So, okay, moving on. Stop Being Stressed Before It Stops You, $1.99, December 1 through 16 of 2019. And now and no nonsense moment with Dr Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: Late breaking news folks, your marriage makes a difference. In whose life well obviously in your life or your mate’s life. But how about your children? Do you realize those little suckers are taking emotional, spiritual, psychological notes every day of their life? They’re looking up at you. And so if your words are encouraging to one another, wow, that goes right into the heart and mind of that youngster. Do they hear you fight, dis put each other down? Guess what? That goes right to the heart of your child as well. Dr. Leman: Kids need to feel safe. And when they hear parents going after each other, fighting, putting each other down, that forms dissonance in the child’s life. That’s a little bit like what psychologists do to laboratory rats. They run them down a T-maze and they give them a electric shock to their feet when they turn left. So the little rat soon learns to turn right and get the pallet of food, while these sick demented psychologists then turn tables on the poor little rat tone and they give him electric shock to his feet when he goes the other way. So he figures out, wait a minute, I got to go back the other way if I want a pallet, a food. And then again, these horrid psychologists, what do they do? They give that poor little rat electric current to his feet, no matter if he turns left or turns right. So guess what? The little rat does? In utter frustration, there he is at the end of the T-maze, and he jumps up and down to try to keep away from the electric current in pure frustration. He’s like the proverbial deer with the headlights on him. He doesn’t know what to do. Dr. Leman: That’s what you do to your kids when you fight, when you put each other down, call each other names, at worse yet called them names as well. So your words matter and your marriage matters. Every day, make that conscious effort to be respectful to each other. The dividends are better than gold in your bank account. Doug: So Dr Leman, meltdowns for a child, as you said, it comes from the parents. It comes from all sorts of things around them. I would also like to say what book would help parents who are dealing with meltdowns get the broader picture so they know how to deal with them that you have written? Which one would you recommend? Dr. Leman: That’s an easy one. I think the Have A New Kid By Friday is… Parents, if you want a quick fix and you want quick ideas and you’re about to commit Harry Carey and you don’t want to do, read, Have A New Kid By Friday. It will give you hope. When you close the book, I think you’ll say, I’m ready for him. That book and Making Children Mine have sold almost 2 million copies, to give you an idea. That’s a lot of books for a reason. Doug: That’s why I was about to say. I think it’s such a great suggestion, Have A New Kid By Friday is so easy to read and so practical. Doug: Okay, so back to Anita and meltdowns. Remind us again, when a kid throws him out down, now we’re not talking about Anita, but we’re talking about just general kids, so five or seven old who throws a melt down in front of me. What do you recommend in a general term for us? A first step on how to deal with the meltdowns for that mom or dad? Dr. Leman: Well, people always say to you ignore it, well, no, you don’t ignore it. It’s hard to ignore a kid who’s having a huge meltdown in front of you, but you can say something rather glibly like, “Honey, could you have your melt down in your room?” Depending upon the age of the kid, you could take him by the hand and put them outside, depending upon where you live or what month it is and the weather and all that. You could put them in their room and give them the look. You can step over them, walk away, go to another room, go to the patty, close the door and lock it, because some kids will come after you. Not only will they throw a temper tantrum on the floor, have the big meltdown. When you walk away, they come to try to find you. Because you’ve taken the audience away from them. And that’s why it’s important you understand the concept of purpose of behavior. Dr. Leman: Are some kids wired more for that? Yeah, they are. Some kids are just more wired for it, but it doesn’t mean you’re going to let it continue in your home because it’s not good for the home. Not good for the kid. Doug: So if you’re listening to this and you are thinking, I’m going to ask my kid to go to a meltdown in a room, that sounds crazy. I’m just telling you these little things that Dr Leman suggest that we do, we’ve done with our kids like that. And the next day or like a week later they’d be like, “We do not like those. Those are Lemanisms that you’re putting on us and they are not comfortable.” So, just honestly, do stuff different and read the book so you understand why the kids are doing it so that you have the confidence to respond and not react to what the kids are doing. It’s fabulous. Andrea: I don’t know if this fits in a moment where they’re actually having a meltdown, but maybe it’s before the meltdown step comes. I like what you’ve said before about telling a kid, “This may be a big deal to you, but it really is not a big deal to me.” And I feel like with a child who’s expecting a lot of themselves in school, is there a moment where she could insert that phrase, this seems like a big deal to you, but it really isn’t to me? Dr. Leman: Yeah, there is. I think after the meltdown and whatever you do, you’ve gone to the park or she’s chilled for a while and things are back to normal, I think you say to a child, and maybe we’re missing not saying this enough, “Honey, can we talk about what happened this morning? It seems to me, and I could be wrong,” you’re not being real prescriptive here. You’re saying, “It seems to me, I could be wrong, but it seems like little things build up inside of you and then all of a sudden there’s this explosion. Can you tell me the little things that happen to you before you have this meltdown,” and trying to get the kid to articulate that those kinds of things would be helpful to say, are there some things you can develop in yourself where you can catch yourself and walk away before I have to walk away and say, school’s done, mom, I need a 10 minute break. Mom, can we take a five minute break? Something like that. Whatever. Dr. Leman: I just think to open the doors of communication. And then to answer your question, “You know honey, I understand this is a huge thing to you. I’m your teacher, I’m your mother. Nobody loves you more than me. But I got to tell you in all honesty, is not a big deal to me. Okay? This is one of the life’s little puddles in life. And we’re going to jump over it. We are going to get through it. We’ll get through it together. I just would like to see you get through it in a more positive way because this isn’t fun for you. It’s not fun for me. And this morning when you had your meltdown, you woke up your little one year old sibling and that creates a problem for me.” Dr. Leman: So, I think you’re practical, you’re straightforward, you’re trying to be understanding, but you’re trying to say, “I know from your perspective this is the biggest thing in the world. I just got to show you honestly from mine it’s not.” So we’re allowing her to have her feeling, we’re not denying her feeling, but we’re saying, but I’m not buying any of that. That’s not a big deal. Andrea: Is there anything else that Anita can do to help, if they continue with the homeschooling, to just take away some of this expectation that either Anita has put on the daughter or that the daughter’s now putting on herself, to just kind of like de-escalate the whole school expectation or academic performance? It seems like if she’s truly gifted, she’s going to get it eventually anyways, so maybe they’re pushing too hard? Dr. Leman: Yeah, she will, yeah, absolutely. In Leman Academy of excellence, we have a sign that says where learning is fun. And I think I would ask Anita to do a gut check and say, how much of our school day is fun? She’s seven years old. It ought to be loaded with fun. The whole school thing ought to be fun. Dr. Leman: And sometimes there’s other homeschooling moms around. Do you sit with them and glean ideas for them about how to make it more fun and more interesting and more playful, more interactive? And how about getting other kids involved? Coming over to the house and doing some team teaching and changing things up a little bit? It all, I think makes for a more enriching homeschooling situation. Doug: Well, Anita, thank you for your question. I appreciate it. Andrea, great questions today to help Anita out and think things through. Please pass this on to others, right? We’re doing this so that other families can love those kids and enjoy parenting, and not live in this stressed out, crazy, whacked out way. So please, on Facebook, on Twitter, on Instagram, when you’re walking with your friends, tell them, “Hey, it’s kind of weird, but we really found this great podcast,” So it’s free. Send it out there where they want to. Doug: So thank you again for today, and we love being with you. It really is a joy be with you, and we look forward to the next time that we get to hang out with you. Andrea: Have a great week. Doug: Take care. Bye, bye.

Does your kid struggle with their responsibilities? Do they just not seem to want to do anything? In this episode of Have a New Kid by Friday, Dr. Leman lays out how to deal with an unmotivated child.   **Special Offer– Nov 12 – 30: Have a New Sex Life by Friday ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug Terpening: You’re tired. You feel like you’re always doing everything. You feel like no matter what you try, the kid knows how to squirt out and not do his chores. Homework is a continual battle. Attitudes reign supreme and you’re sitting there going, “How in the world do I motivate this unmotivated child?” That’s the question we get to ask Dr. Leman How do I get a kid that actually care? Doug Terpening: Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: And I’m Andrea. Doug Terpening: We are really glad that you are here and we are so thankful that you get to be with us and if this is your first time, we want to let you know what this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Doug Terpening: Well, Dr. Leman, Thanksgiving is like next week on the calendar from when this podcast will be released. Do you guys, I don’t know if I know this, do you guys do anything for Thanksgiving around the Leman clan? Dr. Leman: Well, we always do. And you know, this I hope is an encouragement to all you parents who have young kids. Our youngest now is 27 years of age, okay? You know, all those kids, they want to be together at Thanksgiving time and every holiday they want to be together, and they really knocked themselves out to make that happen. I think we’re five for five this Thanksgiving. Sometimes we’re four for five, because those that are married have to go to the in-laws, you know, they do the every other year thing, but we’re five for five this year. But you know, it’s a testimony to all the hard work, you parents are pouring into your kids every day. Dr. Leman: And you know, here we’ve got a situation where Doug has said, “Hey, what do you do? You get homework as a continual battle in your home, getting kids to do chores. I mean, you’re just tired. You’re sick of battling.” If that’s what we’re talking about Doug, I think we can help people have a more joyous Thanksgiving by simply giving them some ways of getting them out of the warfare between themselves and their kids. Dr. Leman: For example, homework battle happens in a lot of homes. I could give you a lot of tips about when to do homework. Do you do it right after school? Do you do it after dinner? Give them a place to do it and all that kind of stuff. But to me, if it’s a constant hassle just to get the kid to do his homework, I think the smart call is go talk to teacher, say, “Hey, could you spend a few moments with me? I’d like to tell you where I am with this. Homework is a battle in our home. I’m sick of it. I don’t want to just pass the buck to you, but I’m asking for your help. If I’m not on him, he’s not going to have his homework done. And if you could build in some accountability in the classroom, that would really help.” Dr. Leman: Even the assistant principal is capable of pulling little James out in the fourth grade, and bringing them down in the office and saying, “Hey, your teacher tells me you’re not handing in homework. That’s not how we operate here. I want that homework done, do you understand me?” I mean, you have that straight talk with the kid, but let somebody else do it. Get yourself out of the battlefield, okay? Dr. Leman: And with chores, when you’ve got a kid who’s just non-cooperative and you have to tell him every minute, and when he finally does something, he doesn’t do it right, and then you try to correct him all at. Hey, stop doing that. Go back to the bread and water treatment, and without going into great deal, all of a sudden the answer’s no to everything he asked for. You don’t give him money, you don’t give him rides, you don’t give him special treats, nothing. Dr. Leman: And he, sooner or later, is going to say, “What’s going on. Okay, you’re on now mom.” And now you say, “I’ll tell you what’s going on. I’m sick of having you as a guest in our home. This is not a hotel. I’m sick of catering to you, doing your wash. You do your own wash from now on. You make your own bed from now on. I’m not doing this. I’ve got to see something coming back from you. When I see something coming back from you, you and I will sit down and we’ll have a real conversation about how things are going to be in this house because you need to know I am very unhappy.” Dr. Leman: As I’ve said many times on this podcast, kids hate it when you use those words. “Mom is very unhappy.” They don’t like it when you’re unhappy. So again, I think the take the bull by the horns approach works. Does it always work? No, not if you have a kid that’s so powerful, he’s going to show you that no matter what you do, he’s not going to do what you want, but those are kids that you know are going to give you long term problems to begin with. For most kids, 98% of the kids, they’re going to suck it up and become better citizens in their home and in school, by you just getting out of the firing line. Doug Terpening: What causes this incredible un-motivation in the kids? Dr. Leman: Well, if I have people doing things for me, get behind the kids’ eyes for just a day, and look at how his day goes. Does he have to work to have breakfast? Does he do anything to enjoy dinner? Does he have to do anything to enjoy the WiFi in his home or television or you name it? No. I mean, kids got a made today. They’re on the take. They’re the give-me generation. So it’s the smart parents that can convey to kids that, “Hey, no one member of the family is more important than the family, and everybody pitches in here.” When you turn that curve, kids tend to see themselves as helpers and not takers. They’re part of the solution and no longer the problem. Dr. Leman: And Vitamin E should reign in your home and that’s encouragement. So when kids are helpful, you’re quick to say, “Honey, I can’t tell you how grateful I am for your help. That really helped mom a lot, thank you.” That’s all. You don’t have to give him a $10 bill. You don’t have to overdo it, but that’s Vitamin E. And kids, again I say parents, listen to what I’m saying. They want to please you. Give them opportunity to please you. Doug Terpening: If we’re talking about a kid that’s at the teenage level, we’ll call him 15, 16. We’ll call him 16 years old and you haven’t been using Vitamin E and you’ve just of been an authoritarian. What would you recommend you change? You know, if dad’s the one that’s always authoritarian or mom’s kind of out to lunch, what would you say they need to change to help this kid get motivated? Dr. Leman: Well, I would have a conversation, maybe at the dinner table some night and just say to your kid, “Could I just have three minutes of your attention?” And he’s going to look at you like, “What’s this about?” “Seriously, just put down your phone. I need to tell you something really important.” Okay, so the kid puts down his phone, and as soon as he puts it down, it rings. Dr. Leman: You say, “Call him back. All right, turn your phone off. I want your undivided attention for three minutes. That’s all I ask for. Even an egg gets three minutes. Your dad deserves three minutes. Listen, I’ve been spending a lot of time lately just thinking about my relationship with you and to put it mildly, the relationship is sort of one-sided. I’d tell you what to do and you sometimes do it and sometimes don’t, and I don’t know about you, but I’m not real happy with this relationship, and I’m not happy about always telling you what to do. So you’re going to see a change in dad and if you’re asking yourself, am I apologizing for something? Yeah, I am, because I think I’ve done far too many things for you. I’ve made far too many decisions for you, and you’re going to see a change in my behavior.” Dr. Leman: “Now, with that being said, in other words, you’re going to make more decisions on your own. You’re probably going to have to go and get a part-time job to do some of the things that you enjoy doing right now, because I’m sick of being just the banker who hands money out to you on demand. We’re going to have to have a much more socially equal relationship than we have now. I think you’re going to enjoy that freedom. I think you will handle things well, sure hope you do because your life’s going to be a lot better. Well, I’m looking at the clock and my three minutes are about up, but that’s really what I want to say to you. If you want to continue this conversation after dinner, I’m available. You know me, I’m a creature of habit. I sit in the same chair every night. Come down and we’ll talk. I love you.” That’s what I’d say to my kid. Doug Terpening: Wow. What do you think, Andrea? Andrea: I don’t know. Doug Terpening: Andrea gave a very clear, “I don’t know.” A very strong. Andrea: I didn’t know how to respond to that question [crosstalk 00:08:09]. Dr. Leman: It’s one of the reasons why we love this woman. She could be a politician. Andrea: I have a really strong opinion. Doug Terpening: A super strong opinion. Andrea: I’m distracted because I’m thinking about somebody we know. It’s an unmotivated teenager, and the situation doesn’t always fit, so my brain is elsewhere. Doug Terpening: Got it. So I think it’s amazing that you’re right, that the mom would stop and engage the kid like that, to help him get over the hump. So it would be incredible. Doug Terpening: I’m going to come back and ask that same question for an elementary kid here, but before we do that, I better make sure I do the ebook promotion, and you have a little bit more time to get the one we have right now, which is, Have a New Sex Life by Friday, November 19 to 30th, of 2019 for a $1.99. Doug Terpening: Dr Leman, who is this book written for? Dr. Leman: It’s written for everyone, from newlyweds to people who’ve been married a long time. You know, there’s seasons in life, certainly in marriage, emotionally, spiritually, and certainly physically and sexually. And so it’s just such a good basic book that you can’t miss. I mean, it’s a great wedding gift for somebody, a couple who’s struggled, who’s really trying to find their way and it found the stresses of job and kids a little too much and their marriage is a little shaky. It’d be a great book for them to read, because it reminds you of how important the core relationship is, and all these other things that surround us are not. So, it’s well worth it. Dr. Leman: Any of these books that we offer, I mean Leman books across the board are built to help you in a practical way, try not to use a lot of psychological jargon. They’re very practical and you should be laughing as you read some of these books. The printed word is not always easy to put humor in. It’s much easier to speak humor than it is to put it in writing, but trust me, I try. I know some firstborn children just don’t get my humor. I read my mail. They don’t realize I said something tongue in cheek, but there they’re good books and they’re just built to help you live a better life, and those you love to build live a better life as well. Doug Terpening: Yep. It’s practical advice that you can apply and use now. So Have a New Sex Life by Friday, between now and November 30th of 2019, you can get it for a $1.99, wherever eBooks are sold. Doug Terpening: Now, a no nonsense moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: You know, you don’t have to walk very far to find a smart mouth kid these days. You’ll find them in schools, you’ll find them on a playground. This is so difficult to say to you parents. You may even find them in your home. You know, kids today view themselves as social equals. They don’t really see authority in a proper manner, and parents quite frankly don’t act in authority. They tend to be permissive and then they swing to authoritarian. We’ll discuss that one at another time, but the point is that these kids know where you are, how you operate, and I’ll tell you, they can pull your chain. Dr. Leman: The question is, when your child is really a smart mouth to you, ask yourself this question, what was the purpose of nature of that? Was it to show you that he or she is the boss? That they want to simply just diss your authority? It could be, but the point is, words hurt and you don’t have to just come back immediately. If you do, you engage in fighting, and remember fighting’s an act of what? Cooperation. So after the hurtful words, go about your business, okay? And I’m telling you, I don’t care if your kid is six or 16, it’s going to be a very short period of time, when they come to you and say, “Mommy, would you get me this?” Or, “Mom, can I go over to John’s house?” Maybe they’re driving the car, “Hey dad, can I take the car?” Well, a simple dosage of Vitamin N will get your son or daughter’s attention, but what does that mean? A simple no. “I don’t feel like getting you anything right now. Honey, no, you can’t take the car.” Turn your back, walk away. Dr. Leman: Now again, do not engage in battle. You have gold in your back pocket parents, okay? I call this parental poker. You have four aces in your back pocket as well. You don’t have to always play those cards, you just have to have the assurance that those cards are there. Quite frankly, your kid wouldn’t have underwear on right now, if you didn’t buy it for him. So who’s kidding who? You are in full authority over your children. Dr. Leman: Now here’s the fun part, I think. They’re going to dig. They’re going to say, “Mom, what’s wrong with you? You always let me go to John’s house. You always let me do this.” Let them really squirm and figure out that maybe what they said, an hour and a half earlier was very inappropriate. Don’t tell them right off the bat. Again, let them sort of guess and figure it out. And finally he or she will figure it out, “Oh, I’m sorry about what I said this morning.” “Well honey, I’m glad you can say you’re sorry. That’s really important.” “Well, could I take the car now?” “No, but we’ll revisit that another day.” Dr. Leman: That’s straight talk from good old Dr. Leman. I’m telling you this stuff works. Doug Terpening: So Dr. Leman, back to the unmotivated kid, if I have an elementary kid, we’ll put them in fourth grade that were already, so he’s nine, 10, 11 years old and he’s already an unmotivated kid. Would it be any different for that age group? Dr. Leman: Yes. Unmotivated 10 year olds, a fourth grader is usually 10 or 11, maybe you picked it on purpose, but the fourth grade’s always interesting because in most school systems, the curriculum ramps up a little bit. It begins to change. And if your kid is not motivated and not a reader, I think you need to really get some intervention for your kid. I know our schools now, I have seven charter schools, we’re breaking ground actually tonight on our seventh school. A parent pointed out to me the other day, that our third graders are doing algebraic equations, okay? Third grade, and I was using my fingers in sixth grade. Dr. Leman: In a good school, education is moving at warp speed and you don’t want your kid left behind, do you parent? If your kid’s a reader, for all you parents who have kids who just love to read, don’t worry about your kids’ education, okay? That kid is going to be okay, and then some. The one I worried about as a kid who doesn’t read, because that just leads to a lot of discouragement. Or the kid who can read, but he can’t comprehend what he’s read, he can’t hold that thought and translate it and put it on paper. Tutoring is a great gift I think to your kids. Yes, there’s a lot of professional tutors out there, there’s a lot of teachers who moonlight, so to speak, tutoring kids, but you know with a fourth grade kid, you’ve got a college kid that lives two doors down that you know, be a great tutor for your fourth grader. Andrea: Is it necessarily true that this forest grader that can’t read just has fallen through the cracks, or could they have a learning disability, if they’re not reading at that point? Dr. Leman: Oh, a lot of kids do have learning disabilities and they fall through the cracks, and the professionals don’t see them for whatever reason. But this gets back to the conscientious nature of the teacher, and how many of you as parents are always at school with those visits, when you have opportunity to talk with your teacher. Are you there or do you blow it off? So the engaged parent, who’s engaged with a teacher, ought to know what’s going on in their kid’s life. There’s test scores, you know, we have an idea where kids are. We had a kid in our school, who’s an eighth grader and he reads at the first grade level. How does that happen? Well he came into our school from a public school, but how does a kid in eighth grade, and it really doesn’t look like the kid has learning disabilities per se. He just never really learned to read, for whatever reason. Dr. Leman: It’s easy to correct things, in the early years. In eighth grade, it’s really tough. You talk to any educator about how do you turn a kid around in eighth grade. It’s like the ship has sailed and I missed it. Andrea: So you would say a fourth grader that’s unmotivated, the first thing you would look for is whether or not they’re having trouble reading or in school. Dr. Leman: Yeah, but I’d get down to that teacher, at teacher conference and I’d take a look and listen to what she sees. I’d look at his work, and if you’re suspect of a need for special services, go talk to the system principal in the school. Talk further with a teacher and try to get that kid special attention. I know at our schools, I walk through the hallways all the time, and we have professional people who are sitting one on one with kids, with headphones and computers and sometimes pencil and paper in hand, and they’re always working on things. And what we’re trying to do is to bring kids up to a level, because you know we’re a public school in essence and we take what walks in our door. What walks in the door are kids who are way above average and way below average, so we have to deal with them. Doug Terpening: So Dr. Leman, I must admit, I’m slightly surprised. I thought on the fourth grader, you would tell me, a kid is unmotivated in fourth grade, and we need to look at the parents, that they have discouraged the kids. Is that not true with a fourth grader? Dr. Leman: No. You’d find that in most of those cases, you would find situations where the parents made excuses for the kid, snowplowed the roads of life for him, just did far too many things for this kid, and the kid feels like he’s the center of the universe. So he just slides by. Well how do some kids slide by? Because they have a great sense of humor for example, or he might have some musical ability or whatever. He’s got something, you know he’s well liked by his peers. He got a lot of friends or he’s a good athlete and all those things can mask fundamental deficiencies in what the kid’s really learning. Dr. Leman: Then you got kids who have different learning styles. You’ve got auditory learners and you got, you know, the special ed people are the ones that I shouldn’t talk on great authority in that area, because I’m not a great authority in that area. But we have people now, who can really do wonderful things with kids. But early prevention, like almost all health issues, early prevention is essential. You’ve got to jump in there and intervene quickly. Doug Terpening: If the parent is the one who’s snowplowing the roads of life and they hear this and they’re like, “Well I don’t fully understand what that is and I don’t fully understand how to change that.” Is there a book that you would say, “Ah, this would help you get a little reality check on what you need to do to help you with your parenting?” Dr. Leman: Yeah, I think the first one that pops into mind is, Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours. And the principle reason why I say that folks is this. It gives you a great teaching in the difference between authoritarian child rearing, which most of us grew up with, and authoritative child rearing. And of course in that book is also permissive child rearing, and both permissive and authoritarian are guaranteed to make your kids rebel. You’re sowing the seeds of rebellion, and you could do it in a lot of different ways, but a lot of it is being too, quite frankly, permissive with the kids and letting them get away with things. I’d say the Making Children Mind book is the best one to get you that understanding. Dr. Leman: Someone asked me the other day, she said, “I’ve never had one.” This is on the internet or just a message came through to me. “I’ve never read any of your books. I’ve heard great things about your books, but could you give me a list of must reads?” And she said, “I have four children.” She gave me the ages, and they were from infancy through 12. And I had a hard time picking the four tell you the truth, but I gave her Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours, Have a New Kid by Friday. Planet Middle School, because for the middle schoolers, they’re their own unique group. And then the Birth Order Book, but there are so many others I could have in there as well. Those are good ones. Dr. Leman: So if you’re struggling and you don’t know where to start, start with Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours, Have a New Kid by Friday. I mean they’ll equip you. You’ll have new tools in your parenting toolbox, I guarantee you. And then Have a New Teenager by Friday, Have a New You by Friday. Those Friday books are awesome. There’s a lot of material out there, parents. If you’re patient enough, take the time to download the book, read the book, highlight it, share it with your mate, and really work toward oneness in your approach to rearing your kids, you’re going to end up with a pretty good kid on your hand. That’s a guarantee. Andrea: So Dr, Leman, what I hear you saying about an unmotivated child is, that really when we think we’re giving and loving our child, we’re actually hurting them by taking away their sense of responsibility, their sense of self, I don’t know, self worth because they don’t have to contribute anything, you’re actually saying, “Give them something to do. Make them feel like they’re part of the family, everybody chips in.” So it’s kind of counterintuitive to that, “Oh, I’m going to take care and make this child feel loved.” Doug Terpening: Which is why, I think your book recommendations … As you were talking, Dr. Leman, you said a phrase that I thought, “You know what, if you’ll take the time to read the books yourself, it will help you.” And I thought, you know, the hours that I wasted on frustrations with my kids before I read Having a New Kid by Friday, it’s one of those, spend two hours to read the book to save yourself 150 hours down the road, and far more emotional drama and everything else. Doug Terpening: So if you haven’t read Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours, and Have a New Kid by Friday, and the Birth Order book, read them and then come back to us and say, and I only say that just for your own sake, like I don’t get a dime for any of this, right? So it’s you, for your sake, please, please, please go get the book for your sake, to have the confidence, just with Andrea said, that you can do it. So go buy the books. Doug Terpening: All righty. Well we look forward to the next time we get to be with you, to add more tools to that parenting toolbox, so that you just love those kids more and more. Andrea: You have a great week. Doug Terpening: We look forward to the next time we get to be with you. Take care. Andrea: Bye bye. Doug Terpening: Bye bye.

It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman: “Stepson problems: How do I get my husband to parent well?” Dorthy is a stepmother struggling with her husband’s passiveness towards parenting his son. Listen in to find out what advice Dr. Leman gives her in today’s episode.   **Special Offer– Nov 12 – 30: Have a New Sex Life by Friday ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: Do you have a husband who’s passive when it comes to parenting? Who just kind of sits there like a lump? And then once the kid bothers him enough he blows up like Mount Vesuvius? Well, we have a mom who’s calling in and saying, that’s my husband. Dr. Leman, fix him for me. Let’s find out how Dr. Leman can fix him. Doug: Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Dorthy: And I’m Andrea. Doug: And we are so happy that you are with us today. Truly, I am thankful that you are here, and just want to let you know if this is your first time, this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Doug: Well, this is a podcast question that Dorthy is going to leave for us here in just a moment, and I just want to remind you, you guys can go to birthorderguy.com, birthorderguy.com/podcastquestion, or hunt around the website, and you can leave your own audio question. Also there’s resources in there. If you want to find out about Dr. Leman himself, go to birthorderguy.com. Doug: Now, let’s jump in and hear Dorthy’s question. Dorthy: I am Dorthy from Las Vegas. This is about my five year old stepson, Nathan. Upfront, letting you know I don’t discipline my stepson. His dad, my husband, should be in charge of that. He’s the parent, I’m not. Just asking this to help my husband. He says he’ll listen to what you say. Dorthy: Nathan is five. He’s an only child. He is extremely powerful. Both of his parents are powerful people, but in different ways. His mother uses reward-punishment parenting. That does not work. My husband’s very passive with occasional eruptions of authoritarianism. Nathan’s very used to getting his way. He is coddled and spoiled by both sides of the family, which my husband acknowledges. He threw power tantrums, which finally stopped after I encouraged my husband to use the techniques in your books. When he complained, nothing he did worked. Now Nathan has moved on to what I call quiet tantrums. If he’s told no or his demands are not instantly met to his exact requirements, he throws himself to the floor in a dramatic heap and lays there, or he huffs, crosses his arms, and glares at you and stomps around. Dorthy: So I guess my questions are what discipline should my husband use for the quiet tantrum? How long should that discipline be in effect? And will it even work if his mom has no interest in your advice and continues to coddle and spoil him? Dr. Leman: Wow. Thanks for the easy question, Dorthy. Well, there’s so many things in that. Well, number one, hats off to you, Dorthy. You’re a good articulator of the problem for sure. Dr. Leman: But let’s start with you. You have to understand something. That your husband, I don’t think you gave him a name. I’ll give him a name. Clem. The problem is that Clem married you because, or one of the reasons why he married you, is because he thought that you would be in charge of little Nathan, the tyrant. I mean, that’s how it is. If he’s passive, he’s saying you deal with it. I also love your diagnosis of him being a controller, because he is. He’s a powerful person. I think you said powerful. And powerful and controller are basically the same. Dr. Leman: A couple of things I would suggest. Number one, I would suggest you say to your husband, Clem, Clem, would you just tell me what a perfect day would be in your life relating to me and your son, our relationship? Just tell me what a perfect day would be like. Now, the reason, I’m sure the Terpenings right now are rolling their eyes saying, where is Leman going with this? But people who sort of lay in the weeds and they’re passive and they’re quiet, they know exactly how life ought to be. They get angrier and angrier when they see life unfold before them that is not in accordance with how they think it ought to be. We can call him King Clem, which might give you some perspective on this, Dorthy. He’s the king, and when you cross the king, he’s going to explode. So you’ve got the explosive parent on one hand, and then you’ve got coddling mom on the other hand. I mean, if there’s a disastrous paradigm for raising a kid that will be monstrous, that’s it. So as you’ve already indicated, at age five he’s already a very powerful child. Dr. Leman: In terms of you asking the question, what discipline should Clem use? Well, you’ve got the books, you’ve read the books, you know what he should be doing. The problem is he doesn’t do it. So as long as you step in and do anything, we get nowhere. So you need to go on strike. Your commitment to your husband has to be, I’m not dealing with this stuff. Now again, the question has to be asked, well, who is around five-year-old the most? If the answer is you, and your husband’s at work someplace and you’re at home with the child, and I have no idea if that’s true or not, but who was ever around that child the most is the one that’s going to have more influence on him. Dr. Leman: So when he does things like he throws himself on the floor, leave him there. I mean, please don’t try to get him up. If he wants to make it a power tantrum by pounding the floor or hitting his head or whatever kids want to do, I mean, so be it. It won’t last for long as long as he doesn’t have an audience. Again, that’s purpose of behavior. That power tantrum serves a purpose in his life. So when you remove the audience from the temper tantrum, there’s no sense to little Nathan to keep doing his dog and pony show. Dr. Leman: Now he stares at you. I can just see him crossing his arms and give you this vicious stare. I would just smile like the village idiot back at him when he does that, and then I turn and I’d leave. I wouldn’t get caught up in his power moves. He’s like the spider that’s inviting you into his web, and stay out of his web. Dr. Leman: You need to have a heart to heart with your husband and say, Clem, my man, I’m about done here. I didn’t sign up for this. We’re partners in this thing and so far you’re not pulling your share, and I’m getting mighty sick of it. And so that straight talk ought to get his attention if he really cares for you. Dr. Leman: So those are a few openers and Dr. Terpening and his wife, Mrs. Dr. Terpening, will now interject their ideas because their parents of four children. Doug: I’m going back to your… You’re right. I am scratching my chin and head and saying, why would I ask Clem what is your ideal day? How is that going to help the parenting process? Dr. Leman: Because it’s going to reveal that he does know exactly how he wants to be treated as king and how he thinks ought to be going on in his life, in his home. It gives you a roadmap to what he expects. Because see the guy that’s just going to explode, he doesn’t tell people this is bothering me, I’m uncomfortable with this, I don’t like that. He just simmers and then he gets to a boil and then he explodes. So if we’re going to have any kind of communication from this guy, we have to understand what’s a perfect day? How can I help you have a perfect day, hubby? Dr. Leman: I mean it’s almost funny to say. None of us have perfect days. But at least you get a roadmap in your mind of what he thinks ought to happen. But when he starts to share that, it certainly is a time for Dorthy to give her side of the things about how she sees it in his lack of partnership and how that’s taking a toll on their relationship, because clearly it does. Andrea: Do you think he’ll recognize that he’s treating them as though he should be king, or do you think this is more for Dorthy to recognize that? Dr. Leman: No, I think that would be new information for him. But if you look at the behavior, what’s the purpose of the nature of the explosive behavior, the yelling, the screaming, the overt action to pounding on a table or whatever? It’s sometimes just people are getting too close to me, or sometimes the situation has just got to a point where I can’t tolerate it anymore. What you want him to be able to do is articulate his feelings before they get to a blowout place. Dr. Leman: So tell me, how would you like your day to go? Now let’s just assume she’s a stay at home mom and he comes home from work and he has expectations about what should happen when the king comes through the door. Well, I’ve got news for you, every queen in America has assumptions about what happens when the king comes home. And what she wants to hear is, honey, what can I do to help? Especially if there’s a five-year-old in the house. So it gives her a platform to say, hey, wait a minute. This is a partnership, and right now I feel like I’m doing 95% of it, and much of that is caring for your son. He’s not my son. Dr. Leman: I applaud Dorthy. Dorthy sees it as it is. She sees real clearly. And the books are there. Those techniques are time tested. Things like B doesn’t start till A gets completed. What could be more basic than that? Doug: So Dorthy goes to Clem and says, Clem, listen. I’m not doing anymore. I’m taking a step back. This is your son. You’ve got to deal with it. Blah, blah, blah. And he just blankly looks at her and blinks and just kind of shuts down. And how does she deal with that? Dr. Leman: I’m calling daycare. We’re going to set something up where instead of coming home from school here, since you’re not here, he’s going to go to a daycare facility. Which we are going to pay for. Dr. Leman: Or you know what? I haven’t visited my mom in a long time. I’m out for a month. You deal with this. When you come up with a viable plan, I’ll pitch in and meet you 50-50. But I feel like I’m being taken advantage of. Dr. Leman: I think Dorthy’s got some guts and I think she will. Doug: Andrea, could you say that, do you think? I’m leaving to go see mom for a month, and when you decide that we’re going to do 50-50, I’ll come back. Andrea: I don’t think I could. But from listening to Dorthy, I think she could. Dr. Leman: I think you could, Mrs. Terpening. I think you could, and you would, if you were married to Clem. You’re lucky, you’re married to a sweet boy. Future Farmer of America, or whatever he is. Doug: What did you drink? Dr. Leman: Listen people, this is a guy that’s comfortable around pigs. Okay? He loves animals. Doug: Oh my gosh. Dr. Leman: They’ve got a barnyard out there, I’m telling you. Andrea: Yeah. Dr. Leman: They have to close the barn door when we do the podcast because you hear the chickens. Doug: Oh my gosh. Oh my God. That’s because I’m married to Farmer Andrea, right? Andrea: That is the truth. Dr. Leman: We’re going too far this morning, aren’t we? Doug: Yes, we are. We are. Andrea: Back to Dorthy and Nathan. Doug: Back to Dorthy. So Dorthy has the moxie to do this. But what about all these other ladies that are out there that are like, ooh wow, if I really stood up to my husband and said, guess what? I’m going to mom’s for a month until you decide to meet me 50-50. And that husband says, you dare leave this house and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What advice would you give those gals? Dr. Leman: You have to remember that the situation we’re talking about is a situation where this is not her child. Okay? And remember what I said. This husband, when he married Dorthy, said, oh great, Dorthy will care of Nathan. I’m out. I’m free. He’s washing his hands. Dr. Leman: And he’s passive. Now, what’s the other side of passive? What’s the word? Aggressive. So lots of times people who seem very milk toast-like are very aggressive in seemingly not an aggressive manner, if that makes sense. Andrea: Yeah. Dr. Leman: So again, ladies, if you’re in a situation, okay, and you just feel like you’re trapped, you don’t know what to do, I’ll give you a suggestion. Pick up a copy of Smart Women Know When To Say No. It’s a little paperback book by me. It costs, I think, a whole 6.99 in paperback. It’s one of those little pocket books. It’s jam packed with great stuff. It was a national bestseller, okay? That book has all kinds of great stuff. So if you’re a person who just sort of goes with the flow, and people say to you, oh, I don’t know how you do it, and might admit you have a little martyr in you and you have a hard time standing up for yourself, or if you just need a little push, Smart Women Know When To Say No is a great resource for you. Doug: It’s a great idea. We’re going to take a break because I don’t want to forget to do the ebook promotion, but when I come back, Andrea, I’m going to ask you, do you remember when you finally figured out how to say no and what happened to you? Doug: So the ebook promotion that I’m super excited about is Have A New Sex Life By Friday. November 12th through 30th of 2019 for a 1.99. While the title is fairly clear, Dr. Leman, what is this book about? Dr. Leman: Well again, you know, I think it’s interesting. I think our last offer was on the book Under The Sheets, and I noticed they extended the sale of it. When they extend the sale of something, it’s not because it’s not selling, it’s because people are buying it. Dr. Leman: So a lot of people are a little timid about going into a bookstore and picking up a copy of Have A New Sex Life By Friday, but like all books relating to sex, a great majority of that book ought to be talking about communication and how to develop that intimate connection. In fact, I wrote a book called The Intimate Connection. But as we strive to become one in marriage, there’s a lot of variables that get in your way. And a lot of them you brought from your home that you grew up in. Your prejudices, your thoughts, and your ideas, and all that. So Have A New Sex Life By Friday is an opportunity for you to examine your life in relationship to the one you love. Dr. Leman: It’s a gut check. You’ll be challenged to think through some things, and maybe see things a little bit more realistically than you do right now. It’s well worth it. It’s a fun book to read. Anytime you talk about sex, I think there ought to be humor in it, and there is humor in that book. Dr. Leman: And speaking of humor, this just jettisoned into my mind, excuse me. But early in my marriage I decided that after a shower what I really needed to do was just dance for my wife. And I thought, wow, she’s going to love this. And I’ll never forget what she said. She said, Lemy, Lemy, Lemy, that is not a good look. So you know, men, we don’t always see things accurately. Women don’t always understand us. There’s a lot to figuring out where you are in marriage, and sex is such an important part of it. Whether you’re struggling or whether you’re enjoying it, it’s a great part of your relationship. So pick up a copy, and you can do that right now by just downloading it, right? For how much? 1.99? Doug: Yes. A $1.99. Doug: Dr. Leman, we have lost Andrea for the rest of the podcast. She’s over there just cracking up laughing. You have killed her with your story. Oh my gosh. Andrea can’t- Andrea: Thanks, Dr. Leman. Doug: She’s got tears in her eyes. Oh my God. Andrea: I think it’s time for that no nonsense moment with Dr. Leman. Doug: She is ready to move on. We’re moving. Dr. Leman: It’s a visual. It’s a visual. Everybody visualize that. Doug: Oh, you’ve killed her. You’ve killed her. Okay, what am I supposed to do? Oh, I’m supposed to tell you how much. $1.99 on ebook, November 12th through the 30th of 2019. Doug: And now as Andrew would like us to go to, a no nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: Here’s one for you, and it’s not even brought to you by State Farm Insurance, but when do you let your son or daughter drive the family car? That’s the question. I get asked that a lot. Well, obviously you have to wait until they’re of age. In most states it’s 16 when they can get a permit. Some states you can get at 15 and a few months. But here’s the question I’d ask you to ask yourselves. Did that son or daughter take care of their bike? Did they take care of other things they’ve owned along the way? Or were they the ones that just threw things down, left things out in the rain, didn’t seem to take much care and pride in what you got them? If that’s the case, I’d be leery at the get go to think that I’m going to hand the keys over to a kid who hasn’t got a good track record of taking care of things. Dr. Leman: If I’m going to give my son or daughter a car, I want to know that they’re going to take pride in the fact that I believe in them, that I trust him with this automobile, that if there’s an accident it could cost me a lot of grief, time, and money. So that’s checkpoint number one. Dr. Leman: Checkpoint number two. Is your son or daughter responsible in a general sense? Do they get good grades in school? I mean, insurance companies will offer you a discount if they have a B average or above. So these are all sort of background things. Then when you come to when do you let a kid drive the family car, there has to be some rules governing the use of family car. And who better to come up with those rules than your son or your daughter? They’ll be tougher on themselves, trust me. We did this with all of our kids. Dr. Leman: And by the way, I taught four of our five kids to drive. By the time the fifth one came around, I went Mr. B’s Driving School, or something to that effect. And they did a great job and it saved me a lot of stress, let’s put it that way. If you’ve taught kids to drive, you know what I’m talking about. Oh my goodness. We have some stories in the Leman family about that wonderful adventure. Dr. Leman: But the point is, you give the keys to the car to a kid when you can really honestly look yourself in the mirror and say, you know, I really trust this son, I really trust his daughter. They’ve got good judgment. And of course, you do have to make sure they’re ready to take the wheel of that car by themselves, and obviously there’s a lot of time and hours spent with supervision before you turn those kids loose. Dr. Leman: You know, I’m well past social security age now, and I still remember what my father told me. Never make a left hand turn until you can see the complete lane. To this day, I have never ever taken a left hand turn without seeing that clear lane. That’s how you stay out of terrible accidents, isn’t it? Dr. Leman: So we all need guidance from our parents, Hey, give your kids guidance, but do you really trust them? Are they really responsible? Those are the questions only you can answer. Doug: Alrighty. So, Andrea. Andrea: Yeah. Doug: So Dr. Leman is saying smart women know when to say no. Do you remember when you finally had the guts to finally say no to me? Andrea: Yeah. I think maybe we’ve shared this on the podcast before, but you were really angry at me, and you were calling me a liar. Right? Doug: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Andrea: Yeah. And I just remember that part. What did I say? Doug: Oh, you just fired back up to me. Andrea: Yeah, I yelled at you. Doug: Yeah. Andrea: I don’t remember what I said. Doug: Yeah. Andrea: But then you started applauding me, and you were glad that I actually stood up to you. Doug: Right. Andrea: That I didn’t let you continue to run over me. Doug: Correct. But just for context, this is like six years, seven years in to our marriage, probably, before- Andrea: No, no, no. Oh, into our marriage. Yes. Doug: Yeah. So it took her a long time. But after that, what changed? Andrea: You started respecting me more and listening to what I had to say. Doug: And I went and read some books about my anger and it changed me. So Dr. Leman, for those women that hear Andrea’s story, like I live with this vicious beast and if I stand up to him, he’s just going to fire up more. What have you found is historically what happens when women finally say no? Dr. Leman: What happens is men do pay attention. We get used to patterns. If you married a pleaser who wants the oceans to lie smooth, most of those women just sort of roll with the punches, and before long you figure, hey, what I say goes around here. I’ve got it made. And in the process you start to take this lovely gift, your wife, for granted. Which is never good. And then all of a sudden whatever happens and she stands up to you, all of a sudden you take notice. You realize that maybe there’s some things in your life you should really be changing or you’re going to ruin this relationship. Dr. Leman: And if more people could do what you were able to do, Doug, and just sort of do a self examination and say, okay Lord, I’ve got to do some changing in my life here, and do so, it would be a much, much better world for sure. Dr. Leman: But hey, before I forget, I want to tell our podcast guys on November 16 and 17, those are weekend days if I remember right, I will be on The Huckabee Show with Mike Huckabee. Mike is one likable guy. He is the real deal. You’ll find him, if you’re unfamiliar, with the TBN Network. That’s the Trinity Broadcasting Network. It’s one of the Christian networks. But I have Dish at my home, and it’s number 260 on Dish. Dr. Leman: I’ve watched his show, and it’s a fun, entertaining show that has comedians, actors, actresses, politicians, shrinks, authors. It’s a fun show. Huckabee Show. It’s on Saturdays and Sundays on the TBN Network. And I’ll be there on November 16 and 17. Tune in. We’re talking about the intimate connection. We’re talking about marriage. So if you’re interested, November 16 and 17. Make a note. Doug: And look for your socks, right? The socks that you’ll be wearing, Dr. Leman. Dr. Leman: Yeah. Doug: Okay, moving on. And so you have the ebook promotion of Have A New Sex Life By Friday, but also Dr. Leman has helped you if you don’t feel as strong as Dorthy, Smart Women Know When To Say No. Highly, highly, highly recommend it for you so that you can have the confidence and see the changes in your marriage like Andrea and I saw in ours. So I highly encourage you. Doug: Dorthy, thank you a ton for your question. We love it, and we just cherish that you guys would trust us with your questions, and hopefully you’re finding the answers and solutions to the problems that you have so that you can add to that parenting toolbox and love them kids more and more. Doug: Well, it was great to be with you today and we look forward to the next time. Andrea: Have a great week. Doug: Take care. Bye-bye.

Allowing kids to face reality and disappointment from their own decisions is difficult, but it ultimately leads to their success as an adult. Listen in to today’s episode to learn more about the meaning of keeping the “tennis ball of life” on your child’s side of the court.   **Special Offer– Nov 1 – 11: Planet Middle School ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript   Doug: Tennis balls. I’m supposed to keep the tennis ball of life on their side of the court. But what if they don’t hit the ball back? What if they hit into the net? What if they flail and fail and now their entire life is ruined? They’ve missed that critical step in life and they’re going to be living on the streets. How do we as a parent keep the tennis ball of life on their side of the court without it destroying our kid’s life? That’s the question we get to ask Dr. Leman. Doug: Hi, I’m Doug Terpanine. Andrea: And I’m Andrea. Doug: And we are wonderfully happy that you are here today with us and that you get to hear this question answered. If this is your first time with us, welcome. And we ought to let you know, this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Doug: Well, Dr. Leman, since you’re the speaker, I am thinking that I want someone to come out to my company and help us figure out how to get along. How would I get ahold of you to have you come out and talk to us at the Lumbermen’s gathering? Dr. Leman: Well, you know, I do all kinds of different talks. I’m doing a fundraiser, for example, in Grand Forks, North Dakota. I’ve done several of those. I do school districts where I do in-service for entire districts. I try to do them in a compact and fun way. I do church weekends, which I love to do. Dr. Leman: For those of you in any form of ministry, if you want to grow a church today, the best way to grow a church is to bring in a guy like me, have him speak on a Sunday morning, and then Sunday evening. So do it like a sermon of sorts on a Sunday morning, a marriage thing on Sunday night, a program for stay at home moms who are largely ignored on Monday morning. Dr. Leman: Sometimes we do a business leadership breakfast early in the morning for business people, based on The Way Of The Shepard, my bestselling book. And then Monday night, do something on parenting. That’s a full weekend. Dr. Leman: Those are well worth the investment of bringing me into a church. I do many of those all over the country, always enjoy them and churches always experience a reformation, quite frankly, in their church. We get lots of positive feedback of the results of just that weekend. Plus a lot of new people are brought into the church membership just because they recognize that name, heard the topic, liked the people and decided to stay around there. Dr. Leman: The direct way … I’ll give you a really direct way, and I don’t do this very often, but I’m going to give you my phone number. And you can call (520) 797-3830, three eight three oh. 797-3830, area code five two zero. Debbie will answer the phone and you tell her you want to bring Leman your way and she’ll explain everything to you and how it’s done and she is so good at helping you plan a conference like that. She can really assist you in how to go out and promote. Dr. Leman: And of course, I do radio and TV. So, if you’re in a town that’s got a radio station, lots of times, a couple of weeks before I’m coming, I’ll get on that local radio and talk about the event, which helps attendance. So it’s real simple. Her name is Debbie and she’ll help you. (520) 797-3830. Almost gave you my zip code. Doug: I encourage you to have … he’s as fun. He’s actually, every time we hang out with Dr. Leman, it’s amazing. He will delight people, connect with them. It really is quite fabulous. So onto today’s topic. So Dr. Leman, this is a two parter. One, the historic one. What does it mean to keep the tennis ball of life on their side of the court? But then the second part I’m going to ask you is, what if they fail in life and now they don’t get into that college. Or do that wrong step and I’m so worried they’re going to fall behind and once they get in the back of the pack, then they start running with the wrong people. Then they start drinking and doing drugs and then [inaudible] Dr. Leman: Thanks for the optimistic close on that. [inaudible] I can’t wait for that to happen in my life. Thank you, Terpanine. I don’t know. He’d been drinking something this morning. I don’t know what it is. But here we go. Okay, let’s talk about the tennis ball of life. Dr. Leman: You know, you’ve heard me say that so many times, it’s just one of my favorite expressions. But let’s talk about tennis balls for just a second. You know, I could have said keep the golf ball on the fairway. I could’ve come up with all different kinds of things, but why would you come up with a tennis ball of life? Dr. Leman: Well, first of all, tennis balls are fuzzy. They’re soft, they bounce back, they go up and down. They’re yellow. I love yellow. It’s one of the few colors I can see. I’m red, green [inaudible] colorblind. So yellow is one of the … And I realize all tennis balls aren’t yellow, but a lot of them are. Dr. Leman: I like tennis balls because they’re hit back and forth just like we hit back and forth in families and banter in language. And how about that sound? You know, if you’re watching the pro tennis match on television, when a pro hits that tennis ball it’s that sound. It’s just so clear and yet, it’s a kind of mellow tone to it. Pow. Dr. Leman: So I like that whole idea of trying to keep things where they belong. We live in a society where it’s always somebody else’s fault. He’s to blame. We say things like, “He makes me angry, she exasperates me.” No, actually you exasperate yourself, you’re in charge of your own anger. Dr. Leman: And so I sort of like just the whole idea of tennis ball. I think people can identify with keeping it on the proper side. And that’s why I say keeping it on the right side of the court, over the net. Dr. Leman: And sometimes, when you try to serve that ball over the net, guess what? You hit the net. You’re not successful. And sometimes, when you hit the tennis ball, you’ll whack it way out of bounds or maybe, depending upon where you’re playing, you actually lose the ball. And I like that because that reflects human behavior and relationships and what life’s all about. Dr. Leman: So don’t own what isn’t yours. And kids are great at getting parents to own the fact that they can’t find their shoes, they can’t find their skirt, they can’t find their game. And like dummies, we jump in and become servants to our children and essentially allow them to put themselves, that is our children, and authority over us. Dr. Leman: So it’s really important that if you’re going to understand the tennis ball of life and keeping it on the right side of the court, you have to understand the principle of authority. Not authoritarianism, where you’re the dictator and the ruler and tell everybody what to do, but you have to own up for what you’re responsible for, but you have a responsibility to hold your son or your daughter what they’re accountable for. Dr. Leman: Now, again, as parents, what we tend to do is we swing from one extreme to the other. So you’ve got one parent that’s an authoritarian and you’ve got the other parent who’s reactionary because they don’t like the authoritarian mate and how he or she deals with things. So they go to the opposite direction and they become permissive, which in essence destroys the probability of us keeping the tennis ball of life on the appropriate side of the net because the parents aren’t on one page. Dr. Leman: So I like tennis balls, they’re yellow, they’re fuzzy, they’re firm, they make noise, they bounce back and forth. Any other questions, Doug? Doug: So the concept is, I’m not supposed to do for my kids what they should do for themselves. Okay, I get that concept. But, let’s be honest here. I’ll never forget our neighbor when our son was six years old and he said, “Hey, if you don’t get your kid into sports, into baseball, he’s going to fall behind. And then he’ll never be able to connect with kids at school.” Doug: And I was like, “Ah.” Right? And there’s this incredible pressure that if I don’t help my kid keep doing and being able to do all this stuff, like grades and homework or activities, they’re going to fall far behind. And once they’re at the back of the pack, everybody knows, the kids at the back fail. How do I not pick up the ball and how do I keep the racket in my hand and keep hitting it back to them? How do I convince myself this is the right thing to do? Dr. Leman: Again, your example is a good one. Somebody says something to you and like a trained puppeteer you go and get your kid signed up for this and signed up for that. No, the smart thing is to look at your kid. What’s your kid’s inclination? What does your kids seem to really like to do? He’s in love with Legos. Well, did you ever send him to a Lego camp or how do you sort of enrich what a child’s bent is? Dr. Leman: Every child’s bent goes in a little different direction. and I think through using vitamin E, wow, now you’re getting it. Good job. You seem to really enjoy music, don’t you? You begin to help cut a path for the child to be successful. A kid has to feel like I’m a somebody. And this goes back to the ABCs of accepting kids for who they are and making sure that your kids feel like they belong in your family. Dr. Leman: And the C part, I want you to listen carefully, is competence, not confidence. Competence. In other words, a kid in an early age gets messages from both mom and dad that you’re a capable person. Honey, thank you for helping mommy unload the dishwasher. Now, you’re talking to a three year old, but you’re sending messages, the tennis ball, if you want, to that child’s side of the court. Okay? And you know when you say to a kid, “Thank you for helping mommy,” and you’re smiling and you give him a hug or whatever, you are increasing or decreasing the probability of a kid helping you more. You’re increasing it. Dr. Leman: So now the child says, “Mommy, do you want me to go down and get the mail?” The kid’s three years old, she can hardly reach the thing. “Sure honey, that’d be a big help.” You know, a kid will look for more ways, and I’ve said this for years, the kids actually want to please us as parents, so let them please. But I think it goes back to the natural inclination that you see in your son or daughter’s life at an early age. Doug: So how do we deal with these tennis ball of life? I’ll give you a very real Terpanine one which, regretfully, won’t apply to many people, but it’s one that just popped into my brain. So we do 4-H and our kids raise these pigs and then show them at 4-H. we got one that was beautiful, growing and then it just literally … I’ve never seen anything like this before. The pig just stopped eating. Doug: So Andrea felt so bad because our kids have dumped hundreds of dollars into the pig and Lily, the pig is on its way to dying. But Mrs. Terpanine jumps in and starts buying yogurt and eggs and ice cream and syrup and she’s out there, every day mixing stuff up for the pigs because she feels bad for the kid. So how do we … Dr. Leman: I can see her doing that. Here’s a little rocky road for you, Miss Piggy, hope you like it. Doug: But Andrea is so thoughtful and caring, right? And I’m like Mr. Meaney. Andrea: He’s just going to let the pig die and let the child- Doug: Suffer. Andrea: Eat the $300. Dr. Leman: You know, you two oinkers are way ahead of me on this. I’m really shooting in the dark here. But, why would a little oinker all of a sudden not eat? Doug: When we talked to the vet, they had no idea. They just said they get this weird … Andrea: Sometimes a pig just does this. Doug: Yeah. Nobody can explain it, to be honest. But, how do we help parents out there that are like, “Yeah, I wouldn’t want my kid to lose 300 bucks or 400 bucks. Yeah, you got to jump in to help.” How do you keep the tennis ball of life without letting something die? Dr. Leman: You know, I think, if I’m not mistaken, I’m going way back in my memory bank, but in one of my books … I knew I liked that story about the pigs. There was a kid who went and bought two pigs and brought them home and, of course, didn’t ever ask mom and dad “Can I buy the two pigs?” And so the two pigs were … I forgot the circumstances, but the parents got rid of the pigs. And the kid suffered the consequence of making a very poor decision and that is to buy pigs and bring them home. Dr. Leman: Obviously, lived in a farm like situation, but the kid lost … I don’t know how much baby pigs cost, but it was a lot of money for a kid. I remember that. So my admonition for the moms of the world, like the lovely Mrs. Terpanine who has a heart bigger than 10 other moms, is you have to understand that part of winning in life is experiencing the reality of failure. Dr. Leman: Failure that sometimes you have no control over. And I think it helps build psychological muscles for a child to experience disappointment. And the hurt that the parent has because the kid is so disappointed and down over whatever the circumstance is, you come alongside the child and you share your disappointment and your hurt and your sorrow in the fact that things didn’t work out the way they wanted it to work out. Dr. Leman: What do you do when your grown daughter comes to you and she says, “Mom and dad. I found out my husband’s unfaithful. I’m filing for divorce.” What do you do then, parent? I’m just telling you, that’s life. There’s life at every level where you don’t get what you want. You don’t succeed. You fail. Or, as the book once said to someone, “Bad things happen to good people,” and so you come alongside. If you’re a person of faith, you pray, you ask for God’s guidance and you move along. Dr. Leman: A couple of years ago, we had to put our little Cocker Spaniel asleep and I just ruminated on that thought and how sweet that dog was and how much I loved her and the fact that we had to put her asleep. And I still have mixed feelings about that. Intellectually, we did the right thing for Rosie, but boy, it was difficult. And life’s got a lot of difficult moments in it. So we got to help prepare our kids for those stages in life where things don’t go the way we want them to go. Andrea: So you’re saying that I might hit that tennis ball onto their side of the court and it may not go the way either of us want it to go and they may experience some loss, disappointment and I should just walk with them through that, not try and rescue them out of it. Dr. Leman: But I love the idea of you pouring granola syrup, honey, ice cream into the pig’s porch. Andrea: Oh no, no, no. Dr. Leman: I’ll never forget that as long as I love. Andrea: This little pig loved the raw egg mixed into the sour cream. That was its favorite. Dr. Leman: Here comes that woman in blue jeans. I love that woman. Feed me lady, feed me. So did the pig make it? Andrea: Yes. But it never grew as fast as it should have. Yeah. It didn’t make it to fair. Doug: It didn’t make it to fair. It didn’t make it, though. It didn’t. Dr. Leman: Good bacon or bad bacon? Doug: We’re not going to answer that question. Dr. Leman: You know, really, the Terpanines could be a weekly series on TV. It’d be entertaining. Doug: There was a season of our life that it would have been very, very entertaining. Dr. Leman: Yeah, I’d follow the reruns of Green Acres. Doug: Ouch. Oh, funny. Okay. So I better do the ebook promotion and then I have another question for you, Dr. Leman. Dr. Leman: Okay. Doug: So, one of the changes that I love that we’re doing now is that we’re giving people more time to get the eBooks. So we are, again, you have another week to get Planet Middle School. You have until November 11th of 2019 to get it for only $1.99. I know Dr. Leman last week, you gave us a view of it, but can you give us like a little teaser of why we should get Planet Middle School? Dr. Leman: The one thing you really don’t want your kid to become in life is a powerful child because their mantra in life is I only count in life, only count in life, when I dominate other people, when I’m always the winner. It’s a terrible mantra to be able to take through life. And powerful children are created in the home by parents who try to play placate kids to make them happy at every turn. Dr. Leman: I’m quoting myself an unhappy child is a healthy child. There’s times your son or daughter has to be unhappy. Why? Because they deserve to be unhappy because they disobeyed you or talk back to you or rag down their brother or sister or whatever. So it’s a very practical book. Dr. Leman: My goodness. $1.99. Read it. It’s an eyeopener for most parents because they don’t always read the fact that your kid’s powerful. And I’ve said many times, a lot of powerful children appear to be very sensitive and quiet, almost mouse-like and the fact is, they make you tippy toe around them. They’re very powerful people. Dr. Leman: So read that book and get on Facebook and tell your friends about it. Or Instagram and Twitter and tell people about that good read. Our nation needs that book quite frankly. Doug: You have until November 11th of 2019 wherever you get your eBooks for $1.99. And now a no nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Doug: As you can imagine, I get all kinds of questions from people. I answered a question yesterday from West Africa. I get them from every foreign country and, of course, the funny thing is because so many of my books are in foreign languages, they write me emails in their foreign language and think that I can understand the Czech language or whatever they might be writing in. But so many times I get emails, letters, calls from people who are concerned about their kid doing well in school. Doug: And many times I’ll find out as I delve into this kid’s life that the child does not do well in life and school, is not getting good grades, but guess what? He’s a voracious reader. Wow. Whenever I say that, I find a direct, clear way of saying, “Hey parent, you need to stop worrying about your kids’ education because if your son or daughter is a veracious reader, they’re going to get an education and they’re going to do well in school.” Doug: Chances are if they’re not getting good grades, for example, there’s other issues going on that are creating that situation. Some of them might be behavioral, but some of them might be also situational in terms of the classroom, the teacher, the subject, et cetera. But I want to go back to reading. Doug: You know, from the time a kid is young, read to them, get them cloth books, get them fun, bright-colored books. If they’re musical, all the better. Any kind of entertainment that’s associated with the reading should really be encouraged. Doug: And teaching kids to read should be a very natural thing. They can pick out letters. I remember one of the funniest things that happened in private practice was a mother reported that her little guy who was ardent fan of Sesame Street came running in. He was toilet trained. He was over two and a half years of age. Doug: And he comes in and says, “Mommy, mommy, I pooped a C, I pooped a C.” I still laugh thinking about that little kid, running into mommy and saying, “Mommy, I pooped a C.” But you know, Sesame Street and other programs teach kids the value of reading and letters. And if reading can come naturally, and if you just keep the printed word around kids in a fun way, many of them are going to catch on and they’re going to read early. Doug: Now, you want to just be as helpful as you can. You want to visit libraries on a regular basis. You want to read to that child as much as possible. And more importantly, let that child start reading to you. And, by the way, if that child starts reading to you, don’t be so quick to correct everything. Okay? Doug: Many times, when kids are trying to read, we interrupt way too much, let them figure it out, let them sound it out. But the point of this little spot today is to encourage your kid to read because that is the building block for all of education moving forward. Doug: So Dr. Leman, if I do everything for my kid, so I do more than I should for my kid and my kid turns 18 and he leaves the home, what harm … Or what have I done to my kid that I will regret down the road? Because of that. Dr. Leman: Well, you set your kid up to have no confidence in the decisions that they make for themselves. You create a needy person who will be easily molded by the peer group. Now, there’s a scary thought. They leave the protective nature of your home. You send them off to work, the military, off to college, whatever it might be. And those strangers are now going to have an extreme, extreme effect upon your kid because your kid hasn’t been able to make choices. They weren’t held accountable for things they did. You snowplowed the road of life for him. You did made too many decisions for them and now, when it comes to decision time, they’re going to vacillate like a rat on an electric grid. Dr. Leman: They’re not going to know what to do. Turn left or turn right. You’ve weakened your child. In fact, you’ve ruined your child from many a vantage point, quite frankly. And that’s why it’s important that people read books like Making Children Mind and Have A New Kid By Friday and Planet Middle School and Have A New Teenager By Friday. Dr. Leman: Those are all practical books that give you the building blocks. So your kid, when they leave the home, leaves confident that whatever comes their way, they’re going to be able to deal with. Will they always deal with them in the right proper way? No. Because failure is a part of life. But, generally speaking, they’re going to be on top of their game and they’re going to profit from it. And they will someday say, “Thanks mom and dad for the great job you did in rearing me the way you did.” Doug: You know, that’s so true. You know, we’ve launched two kids now, they’re doing the gap year thing before the college thing. And just recently, one of them called and said, “Thank you for teaching me how to interact with other people and how to resolve conflict. That I have learned within myself how to deal with hard things.” And they were just saying how many people around them are struggling now that they’re having to be confronted with real issues and real problems. And a lot of it is because we changed our parenting to let them fail. Dr. Leman: Yeah, that’s sweet, that is sweet. Doug: But I was just saying, you’re right that when they leave the home, they have way more psychological muscles as you tell us to be able to do it. So parents, you’re not, when you snowplow the roads of life, as Dr Leman says you’re not helping. Well, it was great to be with you guys today. So glad that you are here with us and we hope that we are adding to that parenting toolbox so that you have the confidence that you can just love those kids and that you’re doing the right thing so you can relax. Doug: And really just see the fruits of doing it the right way. It’s just incredible. So we look forward to be with you the next time. Andrea: Go hit some tennis balls. Have a good week. Doug: Take care. Bye bye. Andrea: Bye bye.

It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman! How would you handle your 6-year-old if you knew they were leading a group of kids to treat other kids poorly? After getting complaints from parents, the school calls you to deal with it. Find out how Dr. Leman answers this question on today’s episode.   **Special Offer– Nov 1 – 11: Planet Middle School ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: Imagine this. You’re at dinner with your wife and your daughter and your two other kids, and the phone rings, and it’s the teacher informing you that your child is the ringleader of a clique that is going around and verbally pushing other kids out of the circle and beyond that, saying really mean things, and that other parents are calling about how mean your child is. What would you do? How would you respond? That’s the question that Heidi asked, that we get to ask Dr. Leman today and get the answer. Doug: Hi, I’m Doug Terpening. Andrea: I’m Andrea. Doug: We are so glad that you are with us today on this October day, or whenever you’re listening to this. We want to let you know that if this is your first time, this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter is in any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Doug: I’ve said it before and we love it. Go to https://birthorderguy.com and you can leave your podcast questions there. Http://www.birthorderguy.com. We love them, we love knowing what you guys are dealing with and answering it, and are really glad that Heidi left this one. This is a little different, about, how do I deal with the kid. So let’s hear Heidi’s question. Heidi: Hi, Dr. Leman. This is Heidi from Virginia. I have a six-year-old daughter in kindergarten who is the youngest of three and the only girl. I have just been informed by her teacher that she’s become the class clique leader and in not a good way. She gets jealous and mean when other kids want to play with her select group of friends, even saying mean things such as, “Can’t you see? We don’t care.” Heidi: Another parent has called the teacher to discuss my daughter’s treatment of their child. I’m at loss on how to deal with this. I’ve talked to her about it. I think she’s getting through, but sometimes I just feel like it’s not sinking in. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much. Dr. Leman: Wow. Let me get this straight. Little six year old, Atilla, that would be Heidi’s daughter, is verbally assaulting other kids in the classroom to the point where parents are calling teacher and now teacher’s calling and saying, “Hey listen, your kid is monster-like in the classroom.” And Heidi says, “Help Dr. Leman, Lehman, help. Dr. Leman: Well I heard the child is the youngest of three kids, right? Did I hear that right? Andrea: And the only girl. Yes. Dr. Leman: Yeah. So I asked each of us to think this thing through for a minute. Where did that domineering personality come from? The kid’s six years old. Now class listen carefully, when is personality formed in a child’s life? Within the first what? Five or six years. So if you look at children as wet cement, it’s pretty hardened by age six. My question is, how did a kid get so demanding and powerful by age six, and if she’s got a couple other brothers, it making me think that that environment that she grew up in, she either feels like she has to fight for everything. That she gets ignored or she’s been placated so much and given full reign to call the shots. Dr. Leman: Now we’re looking at the finished product of acquiescing to her power struggles. Now, what we didn’t hear from mom, is this a kid who through power tantrums, temper tantrums? Is this a kid that demanded that things were just exactly right or she didn’t proceed? Did she hold the family hostage from the youngest position of the family? When I usually see this scenario of a kid who’s really being abusive verbally and all that to other kids, usually you find them right on top of the family. The first born. Who was the closest one to the power-driven parent. Dr. Leman: Again, I make the point that she’s a powerful child. Kids don’t just get powerful without experiencing power in their home. So either mom or dad has been too authoritarian or she has just felt the weight of the two older brothers. I don’t know how successful or how compliant they are, but my guess would be that they might be compliant for boys. Dr. Leman: Pardon the generalizations here ladies, on men and young women, but they are different and to see this scenario, youngest child only daughter, is a little unusual. Now let’s get to problem at hand. Dr. Leman: Number one, you have to realize, Heidi, you are unable to control what happens in that classroom. You have to give the school full authority in dealing with your daughter. How many PTOs have you gone to parents and you heard a school administrator say something like, “We want to partner with a home. We want to work together with you for the betterment of your child.” Well, here’s an opportunity to do that. Dr. Leman: Again, you can’t control what goes in the classroom, but as soon as little Atilla begins one of her nasty snarky little tirades, she needs to be plucked from the classroom, and put in a thinking chair for lack of a better term. There needs to be a very prescriptive ABC program, how we’re going to follow up with this. In other words, when she starts, she goes to the thinking chair. After a reasonable period of time, teacher asks little Atilla, “Are you ready to join us?” She says, “Yes.” She comes back in and within two minutes she’s back at it again. Bingo. Dr. Leman: Next move is she’s out of the classroom period. Okay? Keep in mind I’m a guy that really believes in what I call reality discipline, which means the teacher is the authority in the classroom. A teacher can deal with it in the classroom, but since she’s being so disruptive to everybody, you have to remove her from the scene. Dr. Leman: So step B is remove her from the scene. That means you have to call the office, get somebody to come down and watch your class, walk her down there, or have somebody come down and get her and she deals with a second person, the assistant principal or whatever. If that doesn’t make an impact on the kid and the kid comes back an hour later and we’re right back to square one again, where she’s engaging in that combative behavior, then I would have the child call home from the school office and say, “I don’t know how to behave like a kindergarten scholar and you need to come pick me up now.” Dr. Leman: It’s an ABC quick approach. It says, the school is not going to tolerate this behavior. Now it gets slam dunked back to who? Back to mom. Mom, you can only deal with what happens in the home. So you can tell your daughter how very unhappy you are, how disappointed you are in the fact that you had to come down to school and get her. You had to leave work, you had to do this, that whatever the situation is, and you have to have the look and the demeanor that I am one unhappy lady. Dr. Leman: I would suggest that your six year old kindergarten daughter … I mean she ought to had maturity. She’s six, she’s in the kindergarten, so she’s not on the light side. She’s not on the immature side of things. She’s on the older edge of things. She ought to be able to handle this. But again, I think you need to have a heart to heart with yourself and your husband assuming you have a husband, and figure out what are we doing or what have. we done to create such a powerful child. Dr. Leman: Remember, the powerful child says, I only count life when I dominate, when I win, when I control. That ends up being a really lousy adult someday, a lousy marital mate, a lousy person to be around. So the stakes are high. But rather than drag this out, I would do the ABC, and if it works out in one day, it certainly should get six year old’s attention, that school is no longer going to tolerate your mouth. Dr. Leman: Who’s in charge of the kid’s mouth? She is. Nobody else is. This is something where she is going to be literally forced to make a decision to either make my life a little easier as a six year old or continue to do battle. So I’d love some followup on this one Heidi, and let us know if you are able to work with a home and school together and see what the immediate results are. But this is a powerful child. Andrea: So what if the school doesn’t want to follow this prescribed ABC pattern that you’ve lined out for us? Dr. Leman: Then as a parent, I would say, “Listen, thank you for letting me know about Atilla’s behavior. My husband and I wish you the best at dealing with this difficult problem.” Andrea: Oh, that’s right. Dr. Leman: You’ve taken the tennis ball life, you’ve thrown it back in the court. Okay, you deal with it. I can’t deal with it from home. If you’re not willing to do something on your end, I don’t know where we win here. Seems only one that wins is my powerful daughter. If it escalates to physical pushing, shoving, hitting, injuring other kids, school districts pay all kinds of attention to that, because they’re all afraid they’re going to get a call from an attorney, from some overly zealous parent who wants to sue the school district. That’s a tougher question than it appears, but something’s amiss there. Doug: Before I ask my question, I want to make sure I get this in, which is totally applicable to what we’re talking about. That the ebook promotion is Planet Middle School from November 1st to November 11th of 2019 for a $1.99. Doug: Dr. Leman, here we are talking about problems with kids, how does Planet Middle School help us in raising our middle school kids? Dr. Leman: Today you can go on Amazon and look at the reviews of Planet Middle School. It’s not one of my top sellers. The top, I mean top three, but there’s 64 Leman books out there now. But if you look at the reviews, it’s a five-star rated book on Amazon, and of course the parent that’s going to buy that book essentially is the one who’s got a kid going into the sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade, somewhere in there. But that book is a gem. Oh my goodness. It’s a $1.99 download. My goodness. Download it, read it. It’s going to show you how to deal with this alien who one day all of a sudden showed up in your home, and you’re asking your husband or your wife, where did our sweet little 11-12 year old go? What happened? What did she drink or eat that changed it, because they do change quickly and they get in this middle school age. It’s a fun age. Dr. Leman: This book gives you some practical ways of rolling with the many behavioral changes that you’re going to see and hear from your pubescent adolescent’s mouth. Doug: So get it now. November 1 through 11, 2019 only a $1.99 Planet Middle School. If you have a third, fourth, fifth grader, highly recommend, get it so you know what you’re walking into and it doesn’t just all of a sudden you’re having to react to it. You want to respond and know what you’re walking into. Dr. Leman: Along that line, I like what you’re saying. If your kid’s in fourth grade, it’s a great time to read that book. Just like, Have A New Teenager by Friday, I make the statement frequently, that the teenage years start around age 11. That’s not a teenager at age 11 or 12, but the way kids are growing up today, and the fact that we’ve decided to put Goliath in that kid’s hand at such an early age, and that would be the cell phone by the way, kids are just growing up so darn quick. So get ahead of the game. Dr. Leman: You see a highway signs that say, “Warning, curves ahead.” I’ve got news for you parent, it’s a mountainous road and there’s a lot of curves, so be prepared. That’s a good book to read. Planet Middle School, get it. Doug: Now, a no-nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: Parents love the old time out. They love, you’re grounded. They love taking away privileges. I won’t go into the feared time out. I’ll tell you this about grounding. If you’re going to ground a kid, ground them, ground them from everything. He goes no place for two days. Give him a 48-hour grounding. What do you mean he goes no place? He goes no place. He stays in the home without privileges. It’s a school day, Leman. He doesn’t go to school either. He makes it up. It’s Sunday. He doesn’t go to church either, he stays home. If you’re going to do that. If you’re going to do grounding, do a 48-hour grounding, they won’t like it, trust me. You may not like either, but that’s a whole other question. Dr. Leman: Taking away privileges. I want to talk to you about taking away privileges. It is a privilege to live in a home, to live in a country as ours, where we still have some freedoms left, seems like. But taking away privileges many times is done in anger. Whenever you do things in anger that’s not good. The problem is it builds a mindset in a child depending upon how you do it, if you have the right to put me down than I have the right to put you down, and you get in that proverbial power struggle. Dr. Leman: Rather than take privileges away, and again, kids always want to do things, they always want to be driven to the mall, they always want money, they want to go to a movie, they want to go down to Game Stop and hang out with their buddies. Whatever that is, you can take away the privilege without getting in to the dog and pony show of, all right no more privileges. Dr. Leman: This gets back to, how do you handle things? Your son says to you, “Mom, would you run me down the mall? We’re going to meet a bunch of guys down there at the video place. We’re going to shoot some video games today.” “No honey, I really don’t feel like driving you today.” And walk away. He’ll come after you, “Mom, what do you mean? Everybody’s going to be there. I need to leave right now.” “Honey, I just told you, mom is not very happy today. I don’t feel like driving anywhere.” Dr. Leman: What have you done? You’ve taken away the privilege. You haven’t said, “Hey, I’m not driving you anywhere, young man.” But you put an action, a plan that says things are not well in river city. And what I want that young son to understand at age 14 or whatever, that his mouth, his actions has a direct result on the privileges. There’s that word. That he has in this home. The privileges of being driven by a mom who’s kind enough to drive six miles one way so you could have some fun. Do you see what I’m saying? Rather than just be ruled dominated, be relationship dominated. Where you’re sending the message, the relationship between you and me is a strained right now. Dr. Leman: What has to happen for that relationship to get back on top? It might take at least the next day, because I’ve said many times that kid might be very perceptive and figure out that his mouthiness in the morning just earned him the non-trip to the mall to see his buddies, and he might cuddle up to mom and say, “Oh mom, I’m sorry about what I said.” Right then and there he thinks, I’m at the mall. I said I’m sorry, mom’s going to forgive me, I’m at the mall. Dr. Leman: No. Parents, always give it a day. When a kid does something, he apologizes. You accept that apology, you move on. But he gets vitamin N for the rest of the day. No matter what he wants to do, it’s, “No honey, I really don’t feel like doing that right now. I’m having a bad day.” Say whatever you want to say. But he’ll be able to connect the dots. Let him see that his behavior influences your behavior, and you want to work toward getting that on a healthy line and not an unhealthy one. Doug: All right Dr Leman, I’m going to ask the uncomfortable question. So this kid is six years old, the primary influence in her life has been the people that she lives with in her own home. So if I’m Heidi, I don’t want to, but I should probably put a mirror up and look at the adults that are residing in that house, because that’s who’s influenced her. How do I do that? How do I swallow my pride and say, did I contribute to this? Dr. Leman: Well I think as husband and wife you have to look at each other and say, “My goodness, hearing Leman’s answer was hurtful and a little scary, and I think we both have to look at each other, at ourselves and say, what have we done in the past to help create this kind of behavior in a six year old kid?” I think it’s very matter of fact. You both assume responsibility. Dr. Leman: Here’s a thought for you parent. What child in your family do you butt heads with the most? Is it A, the one that’s most different from you? Or B, the one most like you? Those of you who guessed B, the one most like you, you get a Tootsie pop, a parental Tootsie pop, because you’re right. So it’s the sameness in us that creates the friction and the headbanging so to speak. Dr. Leman: I think parents are just wise to take a look at themselves. Look back at age three, do you see where you caved in to her demands? Or age four, the special way she demanded to be treated? Now, if none of this is true in your life, you have a gut check and you say, “Well I don’t think so, I think we’ve held her accountable, we haven’t gone too far left or too far right, we think we’ve used what you call reality discipline in a very well balanced way,” then you might want to look further into this kid. You might want to have someone do a psychological workup on a kid, even at age six, because something’s amiss. A kid should not be full of that much venom at age six. There’s got to be some reasons for that. Doug: Well, this is Doug Terpening’s passion, this is why I’m begging everyone who’s listening to this, go get the book, Have A New Kid by Friday and read it, so that when Dr Leman says, “Am I applying reality discipline?” You get a chance to look at that and go, “Oh, I am.” And you can start to remove obstacles that are just unnecessary in parenting. It’s easy, but it’s hard, I think is how Dr Leman says it. So for you. Doug: Then for Heidi or anybody else who has a kid that you think is just this strong-willed, go get the book, Parenting Your Powerful Child. Right? Please for your own sake. Really for the child’s sake too. Those are two great options for you to get, and please, please, please, don’t just sweep them under the carpet, but hold the mirror up and look at yourself. It’s painful and it’s hard, but then you’re happy. Doug: Okay. Now I’ve gone to preaching haven’t I Andrea? I should stop. Dr. Leman: Yeah. You know Doug, I can hear a parent saying, “Well, my child’s not powerful. In fact, she’s very quiet. She’s very shy. She’s very sensitive.” Hey parent, that’s why Doug is telling you to read Parenting Your Powerful Child, because that shy, seemingly helpless sometimes child, very sensitive as you like to say, is actually a very powerful child, that you have to tippy toe around. Dr. Leman: So when Doug says, read this, he’s not trying to sell you a book, okay? At $1.99 download, trust me, nobody’s getting wealthy on you plucking down a $1.99. But what you’re buying in that book, quite frankly, is solid gold. That book rocks. It gives parents an opportunity to get behind your child’s eyes and see the maladaptive behavior and thinking that’s going on in your kid’s mind. So you want to deal with that upfront as best you can. So anyway, for what it’s worth. Doug: And again, I know we’re way out of field here from what Heidi’s question is, but I’ll tell you the other benefit, it helps you in other relationships. Once you can start to look at yourself and you start to realize how to parent better, you realize, “Oh, I do these same things to my spouse.” And you’re like, “Hm, maybe that’s why it’s not as well.” Okay, I’ll stop. It just makes life better. I’m done. Doug: So Dr Leman, in conclusion, for Heidi, and helping all those parents out there, let me make sure I get this right. A, I call the school and say, “School, I’m 100% behind you. I am with you. This is your issue in the classroom. Discipline her. Here’s our suggestions. And if you do it, you’re not going to hear any complaints from us. We’re with you. We’ve got your back. Doug: And if they call back and say a week later, “We can’t do that.” Then you say, “It’s your issue. She’s in school, this is what you’re paid to do.” And then the other step at home, I am looking at myself, I’m talking to my husband, if he’s there or my boyfriend, and we’re like, “What are we doing to contribute to this problem?” Did I get that right? Dr. Leman: Yes, you got an A. Andrea: Good job. Doug: Alrighty. Thank you Heidi for your question, and thank all of you for joining us for this episode. We hope that it helps you again, just be able to add to your parenting toolbox so that you have the freedom just to love those kids the way that you hope to, because you know you’re doing what’s best for them. So until we get to see you again- Andrea: Have a great week. Doug: Take care. Bye-bye.

On today’s episode, Dr. Leman defines the “Bread and Water” treatment and gives examples on how and when one should implement this last resort method.   **Special Offer– Oct 15 – 31: Under the Sheets ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: Bread and water. I like bread a lot. I drink a lot of water. But Dr. Leman says, “Give them the bread and water treatment.” What the heck is the bread and water treatment? And how do I actually apply it? And Doug and Andrea want to know because we’ve been trying to do this and don’t know how to do it correctly. Doug: Hi, I’m Doug Terpenine. Andrea: And I’m Andrea. Doug: And we are so glad that you are with us. If this is your first time here, welcome. We want to let you know that this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Doug: Well, Dr. Leman, we slip these into you every now and then and this is one that Doug Terpenine wants to know an answer to, so you’re now helping Doug Terpenine. Maybe I should have recorded it and played it back as a question. I could’ve been like that, “Hi Dr. Leman, this is Doug Terpenine and we have a problem.” We have a dear friend whose son has just become uber defiant. He won’t do his chores, he basically won’t do his schoolwork, like he’s- Andrea: He’s 17. Doug: He’s 17. Dad talks to him and he just basically snarkies back to him and they were asking us for advice and I said, “Give them the bread and water treatment.” I also thought the toilet paper example too and they’re like, “Well what is it?” I’m explaining to them and then I’m like, “Oh no, I’m even afraid.” Like a, what is the bread and water treatment and when do you apply it and how do you apply it so that if I go back to them I can explain it to them. So there you go, Dr. Leman. What is the bread, water treatment and how do I apply it? Dr. Leman: The time to apply the bread and water treatment is when you feel like you’ve exhausted about everything and that you are exhausted. I mean in the case of your friend’s kid, 17 years old, defiant doesn’t do a thing, doesn’t do schoolwork. Probably is very mouthy and disrespectful, certainly doesn’t help around the house. He’s just living off it is what he’s doing. Dr. Leman: And that would be a case where I would say to a parent, if I was doing a consultation with them, I would say, “You know what your kid needs is your kid needs the bread and water treatment because quite frankly, your kid does not have a grateful bone in their body.” And I think it’s really important to treat kids, teach kids rather to be grateful. Most kids in America have clean sheets on their bed. They have freshly laundered towels, wash cloths available to them. Dr. Leman: Their parents either give them spending money to buy their own clothes or mom is always buying socks, underwear, jeans, you name it. Shoes, athletic shoes for kids. Kids today in America, North America, you Canadians included, you’ve got it made. You’re cared for, you’re overprotected. It’s amazing your parents don’t put helmets on kids the second they’re born, you’re so over protective of the kids. That makes me ill to think about. Dr. Leman: And so you get these kids who are ungrateful little brats, who grow up to be strong-willed, anti-authority. I don’t care what the authority comes from. They don’t like it. They don’t like anybody telling them what to do. So to answer your question, what’s the bread and water treatment? You give them nothing. That’s where that comes from. The bread and water treatment. There’s food in the house, they are welcome to eat some of it. There’s water at the tap, there’s a bread and a water. Dr. Leman: That’s where that comes from. That’s all they get. They don’t get driven to school. In fact, I’m going to start by getting everybody’s attention. If I had a kid like you described Doug, who was 17 years of age, didn’t do a lick at school, probably doesn’t show up at school some days. When he’s at school, he does nothing. I’ll tell you what I would do. I would go down and without that kids notice or input, I would withdraw that kid from the local school and I would tell my 17 year old that he is free to go to work, get a job and if he wants any services of the family, he’s going to have to work and give something back to the family in exchange for services rendered here at home. Dr. Leman: And furthermore, I would tell him, using the toilet paper technique that we’ve talked about before, if you haven’t, we’re not even going to explain it to you. We’ll let you figure it out what it is. Go back and listen to some other podcast. Give him the toilet paper treatment that says, “You know what? On your 18th birthday, which is coming up here in four and a half months, you are free. We are no longer holding you back from the many things you want to do in life. The adventures await you, success awaits you and nobody wishes you more luck than good old mom and dad. But when you turn 18 you’re out of here. You need to go find your own place.” Andrea: Okay compassionate Andrea has to jump in here. Dr. Leman: But see, that’s the bread and water treatment that says we’re done. So you can say, “Leman, it sounds like you’re going on strike.” Yeah, we are going on strike. We’re done. Because everything we have tried has been thrown back in our face. And so we’re throwing in the towel. We come to realize that we can’t change you. You have to be who you want to be. And apparently this is who you want to be, but you can’t be who you want to be on our nickel once you hit 18. Dr. Leman: And so this is a kid that might go down and sign up for the army and that might be a good thing because he won’t be able to pull the kind of stuff he pulls with you to a tough master Sergeant. So again, it’s one of those last resorts as a parent that says, “You know, I’m making a fool of myself here. I keep giving this kid money and he comes home smoking like pot. I’m supporting his habit, he’s driving my car that I ensure and he’s not a responsible kid. And I give him the keys to the car.” Dr. Leman: Who’s the dumb one here? The kid or you? I can answer that. You. You’re the dumb one. You’re the one that gave the kid the keys to the car. Well, Dr. Leman, I mean school, we think school’s very important. Well, he doesn’t. There’s the problem. And by the way, you talk about not driving him to school. Do you know he lives … We live a mile and a quarter from the school. Exercise is good. Talk to the American Health Association, they’ll tell you, he can walk. Dr. Leman: I know. I grew up in Buffalo, New York. He can walk. Trust me. So I’m just saying, one of my little things that you find in the book, Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours is there’s a time to pull the rug out and let the little buzzer tumble and those little tumbles sometimes hurt. Sometimes they get scraped up emotionally with that. But you’ve got to draw the line someplace. Dr. Leman: And in this kid, your friend’s 17 year old son, that line should have been drawn years ago and you wouldn’t be facing what you’re facing today. So again, do you want a blow out or a slow leak? I’m always of the blowout. I’d much rather have a blowout and deal with things early than let things just erode away. Andrea: Okay. That’s really painful because what if this kid just takes to the streets? It’s not like mom’s done. Mom’s heart is going to be crushed over and over by where this child’s life is going. Dr. Leman: Andrea, there’s thousands of parents tonight throughout the US who are wondering where their kids are, who are under the age of 18. There are kids who just figure they know more than the rest of us and they are out in the streets and any time a kid leaves the home, he is in peril. She is in peril. I think I’ve told the story on one of our podcasts where a 15 year old girl knew it all. She took off and she never saw noon the next day. she was found strangled, she was killed. Dr. Leman: But anytime you go out on your own as a youngster, you’re at risk. What am I going to do? Tie a kid to the bed that wants to run away? My advice to parents when kids run, and usually they run to another kid’s house, usually they’re not on the street. Usually, they’re at one of their buddies’ houses. Dr. Leman: And I’ve had cases where the kid runs away. He still goes to school, which I think is funny. So yeah, it’s hard to hear. But it took 17 years to get that kid to that rebellious point. And if the parent would have read Making Children Mind or Have A New Kid By Friday and implemented some of those simple techniques when that kid was six and seven and kicking them and name calling and all the things that kids do when they become powerful, they would have never got to this point where that 17 year old is there. Doug: So how does someone like Andrea though realize that doing all these drastic changes are not going to make his life worse? Dr. Leman: Well, if you look at anybody who did a metamorphosis in their life, they did a real 180, you’ll find that cornerstone of that was failure. It wasn’t victory. Trust me, it came out of failure. It’s just like the drug addict. I’m going to go out and greet a kid this week who is a former heroin addict. He’s been in jail several times. Dr. Leman: And you know what, with God’s help, he’s beat it. And he’s got a responsible job and he’s getting there. He’s in his twenties, he now wears a tie to work and I’m going to go out. I’ve never met this kid by the way. He’s a grandson of a friend of mine and I’m going to go out and I’m going to meet him and I’m going to say, “Hey, my name is Kevin. I’ve heard your inspiring story and I just want to congratulate you because I love inspiring stories.” And I’m going to extend my hand and shake his hand, which I hope he’ll shake my back because he’ll find some money in that handshake and I will leave. Dr. Leman: All he knows is I’m Kevin. And I just wish him well. My wife and I have done that kind of stuff for years. I call it natural tithing. If anybody cares for a term for that. I call it natural tithing. I love success stories like that. But that kid was going nowhere and it was through some tough love, some bread and water treatments on the part of people who really loved and cared about him that helped him make that decision that I don’t want to live like this anymore. I don’t want to be homeless. I don’t want to live on the streets. Dr. Leman: So are all those stories successes? No. Most of them don’t end up in success. A lot of them have tragic endings. But I’m asking you, what do you do with that 17 year old? Do you continue to placate and give and get nothing back? That doesn’t seem like a healthy relationship to me. Doug: I need to put the ebook promotion in and when we come back, I’m going to ask some specifics on how you actually apply this. Because I realized, I don’t actually know how to apply this. But the ebook promotion is, Have A New Husband By Friday. October 15 through the 31st of 2019 for $2.99. Have A New Husband By Friday. Dr Leman, I know that you already gave us last week a little blurp on what this is. Anything else that you’d want to add to Have A New Husband By Friday? Dr. Leman: Well, it’s a book that will change your marriage, ladies. It’s going to teach you some basics that you have to understand about us as men. Things that you assume about us will be revealed in this book not to be true. It’s going to get your attention. You’re not going to believe some of what I write in that book, but trust me, it is well worth your reading. Dr. Leman: It is one of my all time favorite books. I would say in the top four or five for sure of all the books that I’ve authored and it’s a must read. It’s a read you want. If you’re an adult and you’ve been married several years and you’ve got kids starting off in relationships, it’s a great book for them to read as well. Doug: Have A New Husband By Friday for $2.99. An ebook. And I guarantee you if your marriage is struggling, this is, for three bucks, you will be very thankful. And now, a no-nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: All right, you parents, you know, I’ll tell you the truth. There’s days I just close my computer. You asked me all kinds of questions and actually, I think I’m about as responsible as anybody at trying to answer questions for people. But there’s so many, I can’t get through them all. But I do my best. I want you to know that. Dr. Leman: But one of the major questions I get from parents is at what age do I give my son or daughter a cell phone? I’ve heard all the safety arguments. Dr. Leman, we just want to make sure our little Harper can contact us if he needs us. Oh, you can get him a cheap cell phone for that. You don’t have to get him an eight or a 10, you don’t have to get him a smart phone. You get him a dumb phone. Dr. Leman: Parents always want to pin down an age. I try not to do that and yet I think today, by the time I’m done, I’m probably going to give you an age to consider. Kids who are, I mean five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, there’s no way those kids should have cell phones, but they have them. They have them in great number, especially the 12, 11, 10s. I mean almost all kids have cell phones. Cell phones are wonderful things, but kids grow up way too fast. Dr. Leman: There was a book once called All Grown Up And Nowhere To Go. That’s how kids are today. They’re all grown up way too early and they’re getting into things that, quite frankly, they shouldn’t, that are very destructive. without coming across like the old guy that I am, if you asked me for a time, a date, I would say no earlier than 14. If you pushed me hard, I could say 16 but kids today are way overly involved in their phone, in YouTube, in Instagram and you name it. Dr. Leman: We were sitting in a restaurant this week. There were seven at the table. There were three adults and four kids and of the seven at the table restaurant, five of them had their heads in a cell phone. And what they’re looking at, who knows? Is it stuff they have to look at? No. That little cell phone has trained us. If you hear a little bing, I mean you’re like a rabbit with her ears up. You can’t wait to see why your phone just pinged. Late breaking news. Here it is. Are they useful? Yes. Are they great? In many ways. Should you use restraint in getting kids to have cell phones? Yes. I think you should. Dr. Leman: I say 14. You say 11, you say nine. Go ahead. Give it him at nine. Give it him at 11. You’re the ones that asked me the question. Okay. I try to give you a straight answer. I think 14 is about the proper age to give a kid a cell phone. Also think they ought to be thoroughly engaged in paying for that cell phone because it’s going to drop. It’s going to crack and all that. Let them save, let them work hard to get that cell phone. Don’t just hand them a cell phone. Over and out. Call me if you don’t like this. Doug: Okay, Dr. Leman. So here’s where we stumbled on applying the bread and water treatment with our friends was they asked, “So he can’t eat whatever he wants in the fridge that he feeds himself.” But then they were saying, “Well ,if he does chores, do we say, ‘Okay, you now get heat and electricity?'” How do you apply it? He’s only doing 10% of the chores and stuff like that. How do you actually administer it? Andrea: I was going to add that they’re to the point where they’re saying the next thing they’re going to do is buy him a tent and tell him you live outside. So yeah. Dr. Leman: Well, you need a day of reckoning. There needs to be a time where you say very calmly that, “You know what, things aren’t working out here like we thought they would. They’re certainly not working out for you. You’re very unhappy here. You’ve made that known to not only us as your parents, but to your brothers and sisters and it’s time that we come up with a little different way of doing things and you’re going to see some changes in us real soon. You’re probably not going to like those changes you see.” Dr. Leman: And that’s how I’d start. I’d start with just that, that you’re going to see changes and he’s going to test that out. He’s going to ask for that $20 bill. He’s going to be asked to be driven someplace. Your response is going to be, “Honey, I don’t feel like driving anywhere now.” “But mom, I need …” “No, I hear what you’re saying, but you have to really hear what I’m saying. I’m not driving anywhere. You don’t need my permission for anything. You’ve made it clear. You want to live your life the way you want to live it. Well, you live it. Go ahead and live it.” Dr. Leman: And when he gets left out of things that you might do with the rest of the family, he’ll notice that. “Honey, every time you’re included, we have a big blowout and everybody goes on unhappy and we’re done. We’re not doing that anymore.” So bit by bit, he sees his whole world is beginning to crumble around him. Dr. Leman: It’s called reality discipline. You’re letting the reality of the situation become the teacher to the child. This can’t go on like this, it’s broken so you’re here until you’re 18. We’ll have that conversation. It doesn’t have to all be in the same day. That’s why I say if Doug’s asking a question about how do you implement that, just let him know that he’s going to see some changes. Dr. Leman: But there are going to be changes he’s not going to like, because you’re not kowtowing to him. You’re not placating him. You’re not giving him things that he says he needs or want. There’s food in the house and there’s water to drink and you got your clothes in your room and do what you want to do. Doug: Would you ever say to the kid, “Hey, in four months, you’re out of here, so let’s just start practicing now. we’re giving you nothing like you’ll have in four months.” Dr. Leman: That’s what the conversation about is, you know, you have to learn how to say that. You have to put it almost tongue in cheek. There’s success out there waiting for you. You seem to know everything there is to know in life. You certainly don’t need our input. We wish you the best. But on your 18th birthday, you will be out of this home and if, by chance, your 18th birthday comes and goes and you haven’t removed yourself from our home, your personal belongings, you will find outside of our home. And you can do with those whatever you want. Doug: So say it but not in spite. Don’t say it spitefully just say it frankly. Dr. Leman: No, it’s hard to speak the truth in love, Doug, because our emotions, you know, for the Andreas of the world, she would have a terrible time doing that. She’d be a mess. Andrea: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Dr. Leman: You’d have to be the one that stands up. She’s going to be hiding behind you, using a good deal of Kleenex. Those kinds of things, it goes back to we can’t keep living like this. It goes back to the slow leak theory. There’s a time for action, not pointing fingers, but you know, if we would have done this long time ago, we wouldn’t have got to this point. So those are tough things. Parents, if you’ve never read, Have A New Teenager By Friday, there’s a lot of action-oriented stuff in that book. For those of you who have middle-schoolers, Planet Middle School. If you’re struggling with a mouthy middle schooler and you don’t like today’s topic and you never want to be there with your kid, read Planet Middle School, it’ll help put you on a path that will have a lot happier ending than the one we’re talking about today. Doug: Yeah, and I’ll also throw in Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours as well. And maybe we’ve given you too many books to read, but we just beg of you, go get one of these books and read it for yourself so that you don’t end up in this spot. Because I can tell you, Andrea and I were fostering rebellion until we changed our parenting ways. And you don’t want to. You don’t want it. So it breaks our heart. So go read those books for your sake. Not for ours, but for yours. Doug: Well, thank you Dr. Leman for helping us out. This is still going to be a tough conversation with our friends. I don’t know how we’re still going to help them fully see it, but this definitely, definitely helps me and we appreciate it. [inaudible 00:18:55]. Doug: Well, we look forward to the next time we get to be with all of you. And don’t forget, Have A New Husband By Friday, October 15 to 31st of 2019 for $2.99. Go and get it. Take care. Andrea: Have a good week. Doug: Take care. Bye bye.

It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman: “Why isn’t A before B working for my 7-year-old?” Listen in to find out Dr. Leman’s answer.   **Special Offer– Oct 15 – 31: Under the Sheets ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**     Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing Produced by Unmutable Transcript Doug: Dr. Leman has taught Andria and I an amazing concept, B does not happen before A. And if you don’t know what that is, we’ll tell you again. If you have heard it and you’re sitting there with your arms crossed thinking, “I don’t think it works,” well, Sally asked us today says, “It ain’t working for me.” And we get that to Dr. Leman, why is it not working for Sally? How come B before A isn’t working? But I got a hint. It might be. Hi, I’m Doug. Andrea: I’m Andrea. Doug: And we are so glad that you are joining us today on the podcast. If this is your first time, we just want to say hello and we want to let you know that this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, Dr. Leman, it’s been a long, long, long, long, long time since I’ve asked this question. We pick up new listeners all time. Do you have any experience dealing with counseling individuals about parenting? Have you ever done that face to face? And if so, how long and what did you use to do? Dr. Leman: Oh gosh. I started working with families in 1967, so you do the math. Let’s see. That’s 33 years that way and 19 years the other way, 33 and 19 is how many? Somebody said, “Oh my goodness, he’s going to die any second. I hope he finishes this podcast. He’s old.” Yes. I’ve been at this a long time folks coach. Doug: How many books do you have out now? Two, three, four? Dr. Leman: 63. In fact, I was in New York this summer and I saw a book. I said, now that’s a good title. I looked at it and I did a double-take because at the bottom it said, “Dr Kevin Leman, New York times bestselling author.” I thought, “Holy crow, I don’t remember that book. How can you forget a book?” But there’s 63 of them out there and my hope is I just never see one for a quarter at a garage sale. That would really break my heart. There’s a lot of them out there. Some are better than others. That’s just the way it is in life. But all of them are designed to help you and make you chuckle as you learn. So if you didn’t learn anything, it’s on me, and if you didn’t chuckle, it’s on me. I’ll take both hits. There you go. Doug: Well, I just wanted people again, to have the confidence that you’ve done this. You’re not just a book writer, but you used to sit down face to face with couples and help them through all sorts of, not only parenting, but marriage as well. So there you go, guys. We’re talking to a guy who has seen a lot and has stayed really relevant. He’s running schools, charter schools around the world and so he’s engaged in kids’ lives today, still to this day. So that’s why we get to do and that’s why we love it. Today we get to do one of my favorite things, which is when you record your questions, that we get to ask Dr. Leman. If you want to leave a question for him, you go to birthorderguy.com and go to, I think it’s podcast/podcast questions and you can leave a question. So here we go. We get to hear Sally’s question for Dr. Leman. Sally: Hi Dr. Leman. We have an almost seven year old who is pretty angry at times and when we ask him to do something, he will almost always respond with an angry no. We try A before B but the delay in his getting what he wants [inaudible 00:03:45]. And having a bad attitude and sometimes having violence to myself, my husband or his brother or sister. I just wonder what would do to improve his attitude and [inaudible 00:00:04:06]. Thank you. Dr. Leman: Well, first of all, Sally has to understand something. She and her husband have created a powerful child. Seven year olds who are angry and violent don’t get there by being out in the sun too long or drinking water or whatever. They’ve learned to become powerful because they have authoritarian people around them. They take their cues from us and if there’s ever a theory, an approach that works with kids, it’s this one. It’s so simple, that B doesn’t happen until A gets completed. The fact that he is so explosive when he learns that there’s a consequence, tells me all right, the diagnosis is this is a powerful child. And will the powerful child, like a fish out of water, test your metal? Yes. He’s not only an attention getter, he’s going to make you pay attention. Well, how do you make parents pay attention? Dr. Leman: Well, how bout being nasty and loud and boisterous and say hurtful things? How bout being violent or destroying things? That’ll get your attention. When you follow through, and because a child didn’t do something, he comes and asks. He comes and ask and you had asked him to do something earlier in the day and it’s still not done. And you say to him very matter-of-factly, “Johnathon, the answer to your question is no. You were asked to pick up your room this morning, and I see it’s still a mess.” Now, the smart, powerful child will say, “Oh my goodness, I forgot,” which is a flat out lie, but at least he’s smart saying, “Hey, I forgot.” He’s going to go and he’s going to clean his room up. He’s going to say, “Mom, I cleaned my room. Can I go now?” And the smart mom will say, “Well, no, you can’t go now because the problem is you really didn’t clean it when I asked you to. I asked you to clean it six hours ago, not now.” Dr. Leman: Again, that powerful kid, because he feels like he’s the center of the universe, he’ll kick your shins, he’ll roll on the floor, he’ll tell you, “You’re the worst parent in the world. I hate you. I’m going to run away.” They’ll tell you anything to try to put you on your heels. So it’s really important that you keep your cool, Sally, that you don’t get flustered. Your yes is yes, your no is no. You’ve already said no and you stick to your guns, and nothing basically happens until he does what you asked him to do. Let me give you something fresh off my computer just this week. A woman writes a question to me and she says, “We just don’t know what to do. We’ve got this wonderful kid. He’s never given us any problems. He’s now 13 years old. He told both of us to shut up and we don’t know what to do.” Dr. Leman: This is so out of character, and I wrote back, okay, then let’s shut up. The next time he ask to be driven to the mall, just shut up, turn your back and walk away. The next time he ask $20 for something he needs at school, leave your wallet, stay where it is and walk away, and tell him no. He’ll get the idea. He’ll come and say, “What is wrong with you? I need $20 for this. I need to go here. I need to go there.” And that’s when you slip on the commercial announcement that says, “Listen, we don’t like the way you shut your mouth off at us. We don’t think that’s how kids should talk to parents. We don’t like that. So, that doesn’t work in our home.” The kid will get the message and my question to everybody listening, if you do that and you’re consistent with that for an afternoon, a day or whatever, what’s a kid going to do? Dr. Leman: I think he’s going to come around and say something to the effect of, “Mom, dad, I’m sorry about what I said,” and then we reestablish the relationship. We issue forgiveness and grace and life goes on. Kids are dumb. They’re going to say all kinds of dumb, stupid things. That’s not the first or last dumb thing your kid’s going to say. So I’m just saying there’s not a better principal to put in your life on a daily basis. You have kids, is that B does not happen until A gets completed. It just reeks of responsibility. Keeps the tennis ball life, as I like to say, on the right side of the court, and it works. So all of the atrics that’s coming in your home, Sally, is really his way of saying I don’t like it when you’re a good parent. Andrea: I just have to clarify something in my own mind. You use the example of the child not cleaning their room and then they go and do it because mom says, “Oh no, you can’t do B because you didn’t clean your room.” So they go and clean their room and then she still says no because you didn’t do it when I asked. So A is not that one particular instance. It’s that you’re showing me that you’re going to listen to me and do what I say, what I ask you to do the first time at that time. Because I think I would fall into that category. Oh great. Dr. Leman: Let me give compassionate mom. That would be you, Andria. It’s a little added information that you can put in your parental toolbox. You can say, “Honey, I appreciate the fact you did that, but you know what? I needed you to do that six hours ago. And so as far as your request to do this or do that, I’ll tell what? I’ll think about it overnight and I’ll give you an answer tomorrow. How’s that?” So see, you’re just building in another level that says, listen, there’s a consequence. Maybe it was something like, would you run in the baby’s room and get me a pamper? And the kid doesn’t respond. So you have to get up, you leave your baby on the rug, you got to walk back to the back bedroom, get the pamper, come back, no harm done. The kid’s still there. We’re happy about that. Dr. Leman: But it’s a huge inconvenience. But it also lends, I think, some support to, when we ask kids to do things, sometimes when you do it is really important. It’s not helpful for me two hours later for you to run and get a pamper. I don’t need a pamper now. I needed it two hours ago. I wasn’t happy about the fact you just didn’t seem to listen to me. You sort blew me off and you continued playing with your Legos. I felt like I didn’t exist in the room and it wasn’t a good feeling. And as your mom, I’m here to tell you, I never want to feel like that. So again, I call that establishing a quality that you’re telling your child that mom has feelings. Dad has feelings too. We’re not just objects that are here to serve you. And again, keep in mind what we’re teaching kids is they’re not the center of the universe. Other people count in life. So if that helps, does that help soothe your feathers there mama [inaudible 00:10:14]? I better be careful, Doug. Andrea: Yes. Dr. Leman: It seems she will come after me here if I’m not careful. Andrea: I think it’s pretty hard. Dr. Leman: All right, we love you. You know that, Andria. Doug: Oh yeah, you couldn’t see it on the air, but I was laughing at her and she’s like, “But you do the same things.” Andrea: And he admits that. Yes, he does the same thing. Doug: Does that sooth your feathers? Andrea: It makes sense. But see what I’m thinking is the kids are going to be like, because they probably been trained, “Okay, now. All right, I’ll go do that so now I can get onto B.” So really what it shows is the importance of training them from the beginning that I mean A now and then we move on down the letters. Doug: Okay. Before I come back and ask a follow up question to that, because I forget this, I want to make sure I get the ebook offer in today. So the ebook offer for you is Have a New Husband by Friday, October 15 to 31 of 2019 for $2.99, Have a New Husband by Friday. Dr Leman, I almost hate to ask this question, but I will. What is this lousy, no good, horrible book about? Dr. Leman: Well, thank you for asking, Doug. It’s literally one of my favorite all time books. Some books quite frankly are just more fun to do than others, but this is a book, Doug, that every man should really like and love and want his wife to read, because among other things in this book, Have a New Husband by Friday, I teach women why it’s so important not to ask your husband questions. Why it’s so important not to use the why word. What your husband needs more than else from you. Dr. Leman: This is a wonderful book that teaches women who are the relational gurus of life. I’ll give you that, ladies, you’re like that little energizer bunny of communication. You just keep going, but I’m just telling you as straight out as I can. The great majority of you, the huge majority of you do not understand how your husband thinks, and this is a book designed to help you have a new husband because the changes that you’re going to make in your life are going to bring forth a husband who’s going to be much more tuned into your feelings. He’s going to be much more apt to listen to you. So this is one of those books where you see the title of it. It’s a little deceiving. It should be called Have a New You by Friday, Mama. But anyway, it’s a good book for 2.99. I would tell all my friends about that one. Doug: Andy and I have been married 21 years and we are still learning how much we didn’t understand about what the other person thought. So if you want to skip 21 years of having to bang your head against the wall to learn something, get Have a New Husband by Friday for $2.99 October 15th to Halloween of 2019, October 31st. Now a no nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman. Dr. Leman: I’m going to share with you one of my favorite scriptures. The book of John is my favorite book in the Bible. And if you’re not in the Bible, just chill and you can listen if you want or not. But it’s Jesus’ first miracle in Canaan, Galilee and they run out of vino at a wedding. They run out of wine. And I love this because Jesus mother is there and his mother, Mary, comes to Him and says, “Hey son, do your thing. They’re out of wine.” Jesus looks at his mother and he’s not happy. In fact, I think he’s irritated and he says to his mother, “Woman,” calls his mother, woman, “Woman, what are you to do with me?” He separates himself from his mom. Well, what does this smart Jewish mother… And we can all learn from the wisdom of a smart Jewish mother, trust me. Dr. Leman: What does this smart Jewish mother say to her son Jesus? Does she say, “What did you say? Do you know who you’re talking to, young man? You’re talking to your mother. You know I gave birth to you when I was 14 and a half years of age, you ungrateful little smut?” No, that’s not what the Bible says. This smart Jewish mother turns to the steward and says, “Do whatever my sons tells you to do.” I’m telling you, she is like the pro tennis player who just slam the tennis ball back on a Jesus side of the court. That’s what you and I have to be good at as parents, putting the tennis ball back on the right side of the court. “Mom, where’s my shoes?” “Sweetheart, with God as my judge, I haven’t worn your shoes in several days.” You can put some humor in it. Dr. Leman: Kids will always be working you. They think somehow you’re their mop. You mop up things for them. You find things for them. You do everything for them. And so I need some of you to become not such a good mom, if you know what I mean, to really be helpful to your son, to your daughter. Learn how to put that tennis ball live back in the court. And by the way, Jesus did end up changing the water into wine. As a sidebar, the guy tasted it as, “Wow, you’re not like most.” Wow, he got that right. He says, “Usually, the guy brings the good wines out at first, but later when everybody is full and doesn’t carry, brings out the cheap wine. But you have saved the best for last.” Your thought for the day. Almighty God gave us the perfect one in his son Jesus. The rest of us, we’re very imperfect, but we’re learning and that’s why we listen to these podcasts, don’t we? So do the best you can to keep that tennis ball alive in your son or daughter’s side of the court. Doug: So the question out of the break is not for Dr. Leman, but it is for Andria. Andrea: I don’t like being put on the spot. Doug: I know you don’t. So you are Uber empathetic, Uber mercy, right? That’s your gifts to everybody. But what do you need to know in your heart to apply this? What do you need to know that this is the right? I’m not going to hurt my child. They’re still going to love me. I’m still a good mom if I hold them accountable to this. Andrea: Right. That in the end or maybe next year, that this will be built into them and they will understand the value of listening like Dr. Leman talked about in the last podcast and following through right out of the gates. And I think in my mind, I’m trying to draw the line between being authoritarian. How do you do that without coming across as the authoritarian parent? That’s for you, Dr. Leman. Dr. Leman: You’re not getting off the hook that easy. I want you to restate your position on this. Andrea: I think it’s hard. Generally, my kids are really compliant. So it’s hard when there’s something good out there that they’re not going to get to do and it’s very hard not to give in and say, okay, they finally did it. So now we can, or I’ll just smooth the waters and I will do the such and such because tomorrow, I’m going to pay because they had to be up late doing the dishes and I now have to deal with a tired, grumpy person. So it’s easier for me to give in. But what I have to know, what Doug is trying to get out of me, is that this is going to pay off and it’s very hard for me to swallow that in the moment. Dr. Leman: Well, you did. You always do good. Trust me. I wrote a book once called Smart Women Know When to Say No, and I talk about the pleasing personality in that book. And pleasers please others so much that it ends up being a detriment to their own personal growth and certainly have a hard time answering the question, who am I? Because they involve themselves so thoroughly and divest their energies in other people’s lives. It’s hard for them to delineate their mind, who I am. I think you do the right thing. I think you tell yourself, “You know what? This was difficult for me knowing my personality, but you know what? I did the right thing and in the long run, this is going to help my son, going to help my daughter function through life a little better, because I was brave enough to do something that isn’t really easy for me to do. That’s not my personality.” Dr. Leman: I’ll never forget. My wife was on a jury and the guy flat out, stole something from a store. I mean, he was absolutely guilty. I mean, he was caught red handed. Well, I just thought well, maybe he just forgot. With four things under his coat, he forgot. Her all inclination is to always give that person a second or a third choice. Well, the guy beat the rap. For all I know, he’s in state penitentiary today. Maybe if they would have convicted him of that minor crime, he would’ve got his life turned around. I just think that we have so little accountability built into our system today. Politically, I mean, take a look at what’s going on in our country. It’s crazy. There doesn’t seem to be any accountability and we are divisive to the nth degree. Dr. Leman: And so when a parent makes a tough choice, that’s difficult for them. I just don’t think they have a choice other than to say, “I did the right thing. This is good for my child. It’s good for my kid.” I mean, how many of you dread taking your kids for inoculations? And seeing those little guys squirm and cry and all of that. I mean, you do that because the great, huge majority of people, professional and otherwise, feel those inoculations are good for kids. So you do some things that are tough as a parent because you love your kids and your personality is just such that it makes it a little bit more difficult than maybe the person next to you. But you do the right thing and so you self-talk. You’d tell yourself, “Hey, I’m okay. This is good. It’s going to be all right.” If you’ve got an encouraging husband, which you do have, he comes along side and sort of reinforces that, life goes on. Andrea: He’s the one that’s able to tell the line for A before B. Doug: Well, thank you Andria for being real and vulnerable. I think there’s a lot of others that are gracious and thoughtful like you and like me, and that really helps them out. And thank you Dr. Leman for again giving us this super easy reason to hang on to this concept and not give in to our kids and to help them out. Like it’s helped us out so much to be able to realize no, you don’t get to go play with your friends because you did not do the dishes. It just like it’s so, and that we are training our child so that they are responsible later down the roads and we’ve launched two kids now and both of them have come back to us already and said, “Mom and dad, thank you for teaching us to be responsible because we get our stuff done and we get to go play and without drama, and we see people around us that don’t do it and there’s so much drama in their life that’s unnecessary.” So your kids will probably even thank you for that. Dr. Leman: Here’s another little one liner I love to use and that is grant and fantasy, what you can’t in reality. Sometimes when you explain to a kid, especially a kid that’s 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 years of age, you can say to them, “Honey, it’d be great if you could go to that event. You’d have a great time. But unfortunately, based on the fact that you didn’t do some simple things that we asked you to do today, the answer is no. So do I feel bad that you’re unable to go? I do, but I feel really good about the fact that I’m doing what I need to do and that is hold you accountable for the decision that you made. That wasn’t a decision that I made. So you can get mad at me, you can get angry at me, but that is displaced because you should be angry with yourself because you had an opportunity to do what I asked you to do. It was a very simple task. You chose not to do it and now you don’t like paying the consequence.” Dr. Leman: “Well, I got news for you. Everybody that gets pulled over by a cop and get cited for speeding, most of them are not praising the efficiency of the officer. They’re angry and they’re mad, which is costing them 240 bucks but it’s a lesson in life.” So anyway, I’m just saying there’s a lot of ways to skin the proverbial cat. Being a parent is not a popularity contest. You need to be the parent, you have to make tough decisions. You got to stick to your guns and your kids will live through it. Gives them psychological muscles. Doug: So I want to wrap up by giving you again the ebook promotion. Have a New Husband by Friday for $2.99, October 15 to 31 of 2019. And if this is a new concept to you, I can’t demand, but I can beg, go out and buy the book, Have a New Kid by Friday right now as well and read it. And you’ll get this whole concept, not just this one phrase and then you’ll be able to go, “Oh, I see why I want to do this.” Or Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours. Or if you have a powerful child like this, like Sally does, go get Parenting Your Powerful Child. I don’t get any royalties. I get nothing. I want you to be able to love those kids and enjoy them. I’m telling you, Andy and I think our teenage years are the best years because we have applied all these principles and they just work and they make it so much fun to parent. Doug: Well, it was great to be with you. And Sally, thank you for the question. We love these questions. Keep them coming, and we look forward to the next time we get to be with you. Andrea: Have a good week. Doug: Take care. Andrea: Thanks. Bye. Bye.