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Dr. Kevin Leman: NY Times Best Selling Author
Laugh and Learn about parenting from Dr. Leman as he answers real parents questions as well as addressing parenting skills
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Mar 3, 2020 • 23min
Parenting Basics – Are you running a home or a hotel? (Episode 303)
It’s time to go back to the basics! Do you ever feel like you’re providing room service for your kids? In today’s episode, Dr. Leman breaks down how the home ought to be structured to ensure everyone is doing their part for the family.
**Special Offer– March 1 – 31: Have a New Kid by Friday ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing
Produced by Unmutable
Transcript
Doug: Sam, come get your shoes out of the middle of the hallway. Sally, how many times do I have to tell you you’re on dishes. It’s the only thing I ask you to do around here. I mean, for Pete’s sake, I feel like I’m a maid, not your mother. This is what we get to talk to Dr. Leman about today. Are you running a home or a hotel for your kids?
Doug: Hi, I’m Doug Terpening.
Andrea: And I’m Andrea.
Doug: And we are so glad that you are with us today. If this happens to be your first time with us, just want to let you know that this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, Andrea, of all the people that are on this podcast, you probably are the closest to a mother, and do you ever get frustrated with trying to get your children to help you around the house?
Andrea: Oh boy. I think we’ve talked about this before. The number of different kinds of chore charts we’ve created over the years.
Doug: Oh, that’s right. So we created tons of chore chart. Remember the one where the little pegs and the little things that flipped over?
Andrea: The pegs, that was magnetized to the fridge. And if you knocked it off, you had about a hundred little circles.
Doug: Yeah. And then we had a little pack that they had to wear on their front of their shirts and all these things. So we tried everything until we tried Dr. Leman’s system, which is like gold and actually has worked beautifully. And this is what we’re going to talk about today. How do you get your kids to help you around the house? So Dr. Leman, help us, how do we get our kids to help?
Dr. Leman: Well, if this is an ongoing battle, and I love the way people send me messages, “Oh Dr. Leman, we’ve tried everything.” Well, really? Have you really tried everything? Well, that might be part of the problem. You’ve tried everything. You need to get yourself back on course and understand that you’re the parent here. We live in a home. No one member of the family is more important than anybody else in the family. But we all have responsibilities, and the key word is authority. Parents are in authority over children. That’s a God-given right and duty. Now, if you’re really frustrated, you’ve just had it and you’ve tried, in your mind, everything, I would try this, take a three by five card, or if you’d like something a little bigger to draw attention to it, in fear that your children will not be able to see the three by five card propped up on your kitchen counter, go bigger.
Dr. Leman: But here’s my advice, at the top of that three by five card, in bold print, I’d like you to print the words servant’s notice, underline it. And then number one, “We have resigned our positions.” Point number two, “Please be advised that all culinary, custodial, and transportation departments cease to exist as of this moment. We wish you well in navigating the waters of your young lives, love, your former servants.” That’ll get their attention. Now what’ll really get their attention is if you just fall in line and all of a sudden you’re mother deaf, father deaf, you don’t respond to anything. “I need lunch money, I need a lunch.” “Honey, you know where the refrigerator is.” You can say a few things, but just disengage the kids. You will throw them a curve ball like they’ve never been thrown before.
Dr. Leman: I guarantee you they’ll have an emergency meeting of the family council and try to figure out, “Hey, what’s wrong? I mean, are they crazy? What do we do?” It’s raining, and they expect to be driven to school. I mean whatever it is, get their attention, then follow through in their actions, and now you at least have open ears and open hearts, and we can negotiate some kind of a settlement that is respectful to all parties involved.
Andrea: Yeah, that’ll get their attention. I thought you were going to go with some chore list on the three by five card that we’ve all been taught to create.
Doug: Ah, Dr. Leman, I’m just sitting over here laughing. I just would love to do this with my children and print it off in big bold letters and leave it on the table, and Andrea and I are out for dinner and they’d come find that, oh, that would be awesome. Oh my gosh.
Dr. Leman: See I think, again, please don’t write to me and tell me, “I have a six-year-old and four-year-old and can’t go out to breakfast and leave them alone.” I understand that. But if you’ve got kids that are 12, 13 years of age, whatever, and you lay this note on them and they walk to school and sometimes they’d take a bus to school or whatever, I’d go out to breakfast, just leave for a while. I mean, do something that’s dramatic. Freak them out a little bit. Oh, Dr. Leman, you’re going to damage their psyche for life. No, we’re saying, “You know what, we’re sick of this. This is a disrespectful environment that you guys are really creating in our home and we’re done with it.”
Doug: So we do that. We get their attention, and we’re like, “We are resigning as the servants,” what’s the next step from here? What do we do next?
Dr. Leman: Well, they’ll come to the table, and they’re going to ask you to carry the ball and tell them what to do. And I think this is the second fun part. You don’t play that game. You say, “Hey, you guys know what this meeting’s about.” Because see, do you really believe that those kids don’t know what they’re supposed to do? Now let’s ask Andrea. How many times have you told the kids in your lifetime what they need to do?
Andrea: Over and over and over, I don’t know how many times.
Dr. Leman: It’s countless. So my point is the kids know what they need to do. Now if they need a little help organizing that sooner or later in that discussion, yeah, you can add a couple of things, but it’s got to be clearly on them. What happens though is we do the shocker, we get their attention, and then we end up micromanaging everything and organizing everything. What I’m saying is don’t do that. At Leman Schools, at Leman Academy of Excellence, at one of our schools, we have a great reputation for putting on great plays. We put on Annie and Aladdin, and do you know that those plays that, I’m telling you, you’d think they were college students, if you saw how good they were. Do you know the lighting director is a seventh grader? The audio man is in sixth grade. I mean, the kids put the production on literally by themself. Do they have a faculty member who oversees everything? Yes. And he’s marvelous, does a great job, but it’s run by the students, the scholars.
Dr. Leman: And so what I’m saying is in your home, when it comes to all of these chores that needed to be done just to make our home a better place, make sure you don’t step in and micromanage everything because it won’t work.
Doug: So Dr. Leman, let’s get uber practical here, and Andrea, the kids are supposed to do dishes, and nobody’s washing dishes, and they’re slowly piling up on the counter. What do you do about that? I mean, do you just let the dishes keep piling up and…
Dr. Leman: Yeah, you do. But a terse statement from Andrea or from Doug would really help, like, “Wow. I was thinking maybe we’d have dinner here tonight, but I see the kitchen is not ready for dinner,” and walk out of the room. Take your bride, and if you got a Whataburger in town, have a Whataburger. They’re great burgers by the way.
Doug: Ooh, they are good.
Dr. Leman: “Oh, Dr. Leman we’re vegan.” Okay. Deal with it. Have a celery stick. I don’t care.
Doug: So Andrea…
Andrea: We’re laughing.
Doug: Yeah, but now you can have meatless burgers. So that works out. So I don’t know. So Andrea, it’s your home and all of a sudden dishes are piling up on the counter, which is one of the things that drives you nuts.
Andrea: Yeah, there’s nowhere to work.
Doug: Right. Could you be like, “Okay, we’re going out to dinner and I’m just going to let it keep piling up and let these kids fend for themselves,” could you do that?
Andrea: It’s not my personality. Right? Or maybe it’s not my pattern. My pattern is to kind of keep making little reminders and maybe wash a couple of the big things that are easy to just kind of, “Wow, this will make a big difference if I wash this big mixing bowl and…”
Dr. Leman: Yeah, but Andrea, isn’t it easier quite frankly just for you to do it?
Andrea: Yes. Absolutely.
Dr. Leman: Yeah. And see, that’s the kicker that all parents struggle with because it is easier. And Andrea’s personality is that things have to look nice and things have their right place. And so you shrug your shoulder and say, “Oh those kids,” and they’re off to school, and now she’s got to look at it all day. It’s going to drive her nuts. And I’m saying fight the temptation, let it sit there, and deal with it that evening for dinner. But be prepared for you and Doug to go out for dinner and let the kids look at each other.
Doug: So you’re telling us, yeah, let the laundry pile up, let the dishes pile up. I mean, do your own, but let the kids… Of course, the boys won’t care about that. But the other thing that you have said in the past is about letting siblings engage in doing chores for them. Right? That you say if you do an allowance, right?
Dr. Leman: Right.
Doug: You actually pay, right?
Dr. Leman: Yeah.
Doug: How does that work?
Dr. Leman: Well, if you have one kid who wants to be responsible and the others are laying in the weeds being the slobs they are, and keep in mind a lot of boys, not to sound too sexist, they could give a rip about laundry piled up. They’d wear the same shirt for a week. I mean, my wife said to me yesterday, this is true confessions here on our podcast, she said, “Lemy, tomorrow you need to change your shorts.” I’ve worn them three days, I’ll confess. Three days in a row, my belt’s on them, I don’t have to put a new belt on, they’re right on the floor of my bedroom where it’s easy to pick up. I know where they are. I’m confessing way too much here.
Dr. Leman: But you have to realize some kids don’t give a rip, but if you got a little responsible kid and she likes to make money off of her sibling’s negligence, she’ll be a rich young woman before long. Because if you’re going to pay that young lady for doing her brother’s work or her sister’s work, and it comes out of that sister or brother’s allowance, you’re going to get that kid’s attention eventually. They’re going to figure out, “Hey, I’m broke, and she’s walking around like the queen.”
Doug: Well, I want to get the ebook special today, but when I come back, I want to talk about this very specific way that you suggested that we divide chores in the Terpening household, and it’s worked like gold. So let me do this, and then we’ll come back and tell you what Dr. Leman recommends on how to divide chores. And I’m telling you, this is the time to get a book from Dr. Leman, and it is Have a New Kid by Friday. You can get it now until the end of March of 2020 for $2.99 wherever ebooks are sold.
Doug: And this is the book that I got that had launched me into realizing that I needed to change my parenting. It is a New York times bestseller. It’s sold millions. This is, I was an unaware parent. I thought I was a great parent, but I didn’t realize all the things that I was. I was controlling, I was authoritarian, and Dr. Leman let me down or let me realize it in a really simple way. Go get this book. Have a New Kid by Friday ebook. Unbelievable. $2.99 for yourself. Go and get it today. And now a no-nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman.
Dr. Leman: Hey parents, I get a lot of questions about those computers and the new Goliath, the cell phone, and can kids use those in their bedroom? So many parents, and I think I’ve even made this suggestion years ago, that computers should probably be in a neutral place, but you know what? There’s history buttons, there’s all kinds of ways that you can run some control and some investigation on who your kids are talking to by way of the computer, what sites they’re looking at, et cetera. I wouldn’t make, again, the proverbial molehill into a mountain here. I think the message ought to be that we have confidence in you, and we trust your judgments. That’s the message that needs to go to your kids. So computers in the bedroom, it’s not the end of the world. I wouldn’t get too upset about it. Carry on. Do a good job. Be the parent you need to be.
Doug: All righty, Dr. Leman, so you said to us, “Okay, Terpenings, you want to stop the chore battles?” You gave us this crazy concept. Let the kids decide how they’re going to divide the chores and put it on one sheet of paper, or at least that’s how I remember it hearing. Did I get that? Is that what you say?
Dr. Leman: Right. Let the kids figure it out, and believe it or not, this principle, folks, works with almost everything. Your kid’s just got his driver’s license or his permit, let that son or daughter write the rules governing the use of the family car. So in other words, this is a one of those one-size-fits-all concepts that get the kids involved and committed. Big business uses this all the time, getting employees involved, to the extent of ownership. So there has to be ownership, if we can use that term, for your kids in your home. Let them divvy up the chores. And again, I want to make this point, as your kids grow older and that kid turns 14 and he’s in high school now or she’s in high school, her responsibilities should lighten up. Lighten up. You heard me right. Why? Because we tend to make the firstborn responsible forever, and they do far too much work. And once a kid gets to high school, some of those jobs ought to be handed off to younger siblings so everybody gets a good shot at being responsible in the home.
Doug: So we did this. So just to reiterate, you literally tell the kids, “Here are the things that need to get covered for chores, and you probably have more, kids, so here’s a blank sheet of paper,” and you walk away and have them sit at the table. And I thought this is going to be a total failure. Dr Leman is nutso. Our kids range from probably that time, I don’t know, 16 down to whatever that is, 8, and they all sat there and divided up and found chores that we didn’t even think of, and they’ve owned it ever since. And now as our kids are leaving, the other ones get together and reorganize it. I’m telling you, this is so simple and it works. The other thing that Dr. Leman said to us that we did too is not only did we say, “We resign as servants,” but we said, “We need your help to run this household. Without your effort, this household doesn’t get run.”
Dr Leman, explain why that’s so important to tell our kids that.
Dr. Leman: Because kids get a sense of wellbeing, self-esteem, if you will, from the mundane, from the predictable where they get to pitch in. Kids need to see that they’re needed. Okay? This goes back to basic needs, that their acceptance, they’re accepted by the parents, that they belong, that they have a sense of belonging. Where? In their home. And parents, you want your kid to identify more inside the home than outside the home. If your kid doesn’t identify with your home and he just identifies outside of the home with friends and whatever, that kid’s going to run aground here before too long because home is a safe harbor.
Dr. Leman: And then you have to teach your kids to be competent. It’s important that kids learn, “Hey, I can do some things in life.” Let me, I’ll ask you a personal question. I’m saying everybody who’s listening. Who replaces the toilet paper in your bathrooms? And I’d love to take a vote on this. Does the paper go over the roll or under the roll as it comes out? See, I’m an over the roll person, and once in a while Mrs. Uppington will take my job and she’ll put toilet paper, two-ply, on, but she insists on having it under the roll. What do you think, Doug?
Doug: Oh, totally wrong. Over.
Andrea: It’s confusing. It’s so confusing.
Doug: Over. No, it’s not confusing, over the roll.
Andrea: No, no, no. It’s confusing if it’s not coming the right way.
Doug: Oh yeah. But you sometimes put it the wrong way.
Andrea: That’s because I’m not paying attention.
Dr. Leman: Back to the kids. I mean the nitty gritty of a parent might be, if you got the seven-year-old changing the toilet paper in the bathrooms, as a parent, I’m going to find out, “Honey, is your preference over the roll or under the roll?” Because if it’s under the roll, I got a problem. I’ll use napkins from the kitchen.
Doug: Oh my gosh. Ah, but to your point, one of the things that we haven’t talked about is don’t criticize your kids when they do a project, right? Dr Leman?
Dr. Leman: Yes. You got to respect their efforts. Yeah. Respect their efforts is important.
Andrea: And that means don’t go back and vacuum the room again after they’ve vacuumed poorly. Don’t go back and re-dust the shelf.
Doug: So in conclusion, if you’re struggling with getting chores done at your home, A: don’t micromanage, B: quit being the servants. Acknowledge that you’re doing things and you’re going to do things differently. C: let the kids choose the chores, right? And then D: get out of the way. Let them do it. Tell them you need their help, and then however they do it, respect it. I’m telling you, it actually works. It’ll take you a while for your kids to get the new system, but it works.
Dr. Leman: Yeah. Let’s go back to the point that Andrea just touched on, which is really important. When your kid does something really slipshod, it’s not done well, I mean it’s still a mess or whatever, we’re not saying, when we say respect their effort that you allow sloppy, not completed work, that doesn’t pass. What happens in that case is the son or daughter says, “Hey, can I go outside? I want to go down to James’ home.” And you say to your child, “Honey, I see your room isn’t ready yet for you to go outside.” That’s all. In other words, he doesn’t… So now we’re go back to B doesn’t start till A gets completed. So parents, don’t feel trapped here. This is something you can pull off, be an authority. It works.
Doug: So especially for all the moms out there that are doing, you love your kids so much and it’s just, as Andrea said, it’s easier to do it yourself, I’m telling you. And it takes years and years and years to get it there. But like the other night we came home at 10 o’clock as a family, and our son, not to brag on him, was like, “Oh, that’s right, I got to do dishes.” And actually did them because he knows it’s his responsibility to get them done. And it does pay off. It’s kind of a fight at times, and you can’t let up, sorry. But it will change. It will change, and it’s you that has to change, but you can do it. So anything else, Andrea, that you’d recommend since you fight this more than anybody else on here?
Andrea: I don’t know. The one thing I was thinking about was with younger kids, there’s the training phase, and as they get older, then it’s the stepping back and biting your tongue when they decide their timeframe hasn’t run out.
Doug: Well, I’m really glad you brought that up. Sorry to add one more thing, but Dr. Leman said this, and again I thought he was crazy when he said it, but he’s right. Your five-year-old can start helping around the house, and if you set that ethos way back when, it helps so much.
Andrea: Well, your two-year-old can start helping around the house.
Doug: What was it, Dr. Leman? What is it like-
Andrea: Three?
Doug: … three or four, you said when they start helping with [crosstalk 00:22:01]-
Dr. Leman: Yeah. Yeah. Even a two or three-year-old can help with laundry or helping with the dishwasher, or we talked about the toilet paper roll. I mean a three-year-old can do that. My goodness.
Andrea: I remember our little kids, they would deliver the laundry to the bedrooms. It was one of their favorite jobs, and they’d put the clothes in a basket and they’d drive it like a train down to the bedrooms where it had to go, and they just thought that was a ball.
Doug: Yeah. So all you moms and dads out there, I hope this helps you, to give you some practical, practical ways that you can get help around the home and finally kill the chore monster so that you’re able to do it. So I will say if you want confidence to be able to pull this off, go get Have a New Kid by Friday, please, for your sake. You can get it for $2.99 between now and the end of March of 2020. If you have not read that book, I’m on my hands and knees begging you, for your sake. It is a great, great, great book and will give you tons of confidence on how to do this and relieve the anxiety and be able to love those kids a whole lot more. Well, it was great to be with you and we look forward to the next time we get to hang out and help add to that parenting toolbox.
Andrea: Have a great one.
Doug: Take care. Bye bye.

Feb 18, 2020 • 22min
My oldest is jealous of the middle child. – Ask Dr. Leman 141 (Episode 301)
It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman: “My oldest is jealous of the middle child.” Find out Dr. Leman’s answer in today’s episode.
**Special Offer– Feb 1 – 29: What a Difference a Mom Makes ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing
Produced by Unmutable
Transcript
Doug: Okay, you have more than one kid and now you’re noticing they’re not getting along so well. In fact, I think the oldest is making life miserable for my middle child and I’m afraid it’s going to destroy their relationship. What do I do? That’s the question that Sierra asked Dr. Leman today that we get to hear his answer. Hi, I’m Doug Terpening.
Andrea: And I’m Andrea.
Doug: And we are so glad that you are with us today to add that parenting toolbox, but I want to let you know if this is your first time, welcome. And this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, I’d like to make a confession. I think my oldest sister destroyed our relationship. She is a horrible human being. She used to hold me down and do that typewriter thing on my chest, and then hit your face, ah, and have your sister do it was like the worst thing, but-
Andrea: And you have no relationship with her now do you?
Doug: None. None. No, I love my sister now, but obviously that’s not what destroyed the relationship. So let’s get to Sierra’s question about her kids destroying the relationships.
Sierra: Hey Dr. Leman, I have three boys, 10, six and two and for the most part they get along wonderfully better than typical brothers and sisters do. But the 10 year old has a really hard time with the middle one who’s four, he’s very jealous of him. The middle one doesn’t get in trouble very often. He’s very kind. He stopped… well, he’s quick to say he’s sorry. The older one doesn’t typically have good intentions and he gets in trouble a lot more.
Sierra: He struggles when he hears us encouraging the four year old when he goes to his first hockey practice, we’re very encouraging. He tries really hard and the older one sees how nice we are to the four year old and he really struggles. And then the four year old looks up to the older one and he’s angry at him because he’s jealous and he doesn’t encourage him.
Sierra: The four year old’s just looking for his encouragement like regarding hockey practice. I’m just wondering how do we instill good sibling relationships when there’s such an age gap and there is jealousy there. Thank you.
Dr. Leman: Well, thank you Sierra and I am going to turn tables on the Terpenings and I’m going to show you how smart Andrea and Doug, sometimes we call them Douglas really is. So we have a family of 10 year old, four year old, two year old. So I’m going to start with you Ms. Andrea-
Andrea: Hello.
Dr. Leman: How many families are represented in those three children?
Andrea: Oh, let’s see, because between the 10 and the four year old, there’s a six year gap that is an only child and then the four and the two are considered siblings or one-
Doug: Or a new family.
Andrea: A new family.
Dr. Leman: There you go. Now friends, I’m calling you friends, everybody listening to the podcast. Do you see how smart she is? She sees the 10, four and two, she says, hey, there’s two families. So let’s think about this for a second. We’ve got a 10 year old who’s the king of the mountain? He is King. He is unchallenged. He is the lion with a big mane. Okay. He gets to the top of the mountain and he just roars and he says, I am King.
Dr. Leman: And then he hears a new word, pregnancy ,and his life is about the change and the thing comes home. What goes on in that now 10 year old’s mind when he first heard that word pregnancy? What do you suppose it was, Doug?
Doug: Competition.
Dr. Leman: Competition. That I wasn’t good enough, they had to get another one. And then they bring the thing home from the hospital and the thing has its own room and grandparents come and bring the thing presents. And before long, firstborn 10 year old feels what? What’s the word that a 10 year old would feel with this little new baby brother moving into his turf?
Andrea: Forgotten?
Doug: Neglected, pushed aside.
Dr. Leman: Yep. Pushed aside, forgotten, threatened by the kids’ existence. And so pretty soon firstborn says, you know what? I’m going to be okay. All that kid does is sleep all day long. That kid can’t do a thing. In fact, that kid is useless. But as the months go by, little Mr. Useless becomes more capable. Oh my goodness, he’s walking. Oh my goodness, he’s touching my stuff. Do you get the picture I’m drawing?
Dr. Leman: And so what happens in families is there’s a search for dominance. There’s a search for being the boss, being the big guy. And not only that, the now four year old, but mom and dad had to do it again and now we got a two year old? So get behind the 10 year old’s eyes for just a minute. And so if I’m a parent, I’m saying things like Sierra, you know what? You’re probably way too hard on your firstborn son.
Dr. Leman: I think you ought to pull them aside and have a conversation like this. Hey honey, can I ask your opinion about something? Sure mom, what? Well it’s about the two little ones? Are they a pain in the butt or is it me? Now, your 10 year old will do a double take when you say that. I can’t believe mom just said pain in the butt, but thank God somebody understands what I’m up against.
Dr. Leman: I get in trouble for what they did. They’re the ones that are messing with my stuff. All I did was tell them to get their hands off it. I’m just protecting my turf. So you have to come alongside of the 10 year old and let, he’s got to feel and see that you understand what he’s up against. Now trust me again, Sierra, I think your question was how do I have positive sibling relationship?
Dr. Leman: You’re not going to have him for a while in all probability, but if you take this approach, it’s going to lessen. These kids will be in each other’s wedding someday. When these kids are older and somebody does something to the four year old or two year old who’s now 12 or 13, big brother’s going to come to their rescue. He’s going to challenge harm to someone who does harm to one of those kids. He’ll be the protective one. So again, don’t get too uptight right now about what you’re seeing.
Dr. Leman: So what I’m saying is get behind the 10 year old’s eyes, do some psychological disclosure, that’s the technical term for it, about what you see going on. So that he see us like somebody sees life from behind his eyes. Then the talking to with a four year old who sounds like a very nice little kid at four, there’s times when four year old is crossing the line, be quick to admonish the four year old.
Dr. Leman: And just using that same example, four year old don’t touch 10 year old stuff, that’s his stuff. You only touch that if he gives you permission to play with that or use that, that kind of thing. So what I’m saying is, mom, you end up being a mediator here, two year old is going to… they’re still at the give me stage, but you’ve got two families. You’ve got the compliant firstborn and the four year old, you’ve got the only child who was invaded by these martians from another planet who have come in and crippled his lifestyle.
Dr. Leman: So you have to do some juggling here, but you get through this, it’s going to get better. It’s not going to cease immediately, but you can make a real dent in it from using psychological disclosure with your 10 year old. If you have a new kid by Friday, that’d be a good read. A lot of good practical stuff there.
Doug: Psychological disclosure, I remember the first time you said sit down with your kids and comment about your other kids, isn’t this kid a little over the top? Isn’t this kid a little too wound? And this kid a little, I thought that sounds terrible. Like I really didn’t. Finally, we were having some issues in our family and I thought, well, I’ll try this crazy guy and see if he could maybe… Oh my gosh, that was one of the best things I ever did.
Doug: To sit down and comment about what everybody knows about the siblings to a sibling was amazing. I mean it was… so, I know this… well, if you’re like me, you would think this sounds like you’re talking bad and can make the relationship worse, it does not. It relieves so many pressure points, it was crazy. So, sorry. Here’s my question though, for you, Dr. Leman, would you say to that 10 year old, hey, I need your help with the four year old in X, Y, and Z. Would you ever do that?
Dr. Leman: Yes. Yeah. Again, proof the Terpenings are smart people because you can reason with a 10 year old. Okay. You can have an adult type conversation with a 10 year old. And you preface it with, I know that kid’s a pain in the tail, but listen, I really need your help on something here because this is really bothering me. And it’s hurting all of our relationships. And quite frankly, it’s impeding our relationship that we have.
Dr. Leman: And I always thought we had a good relationship, but there’s days I’m not real happy with you. So you’re shooting it to him straight. Then you come right back and say, but honey, I need your help. And only you, only you and not the two year old, not the four year, only you can help with this. I want to count on you. Can I count on your cooperation? Get the commitment and then move forward. So I don’t… to me it… I get accused of using common sense and I’m so pleased that I get accused of that because it is common sense, but you have to do it in the right way. And that’s why those Leman books sort of help you learn to respond rather than just react because that’s what most of us do. We just react. That’s never good.
Doug: I want to make sure that we get the break in here, but I want to come back and ask you another question about how you would treat that 10 year old, but before our time runs out, I want to make sure everybody knows that you can go get the ebook, What A Difference A Mom Makes between now and February 29th of 2020 for $2.99. Andrea.
Andrea: Yeah. Here’s another review from Amazon. Wow! For me personally, this is one of the best books I could have read at this time in my life. I’m a mom to two young boys. Because I don’t have daughters and may not even have daughters, I felt my role as a mom wasn’t as important as that of my husband’s. How wrong I was. Dr. Leman explains clearly why moms matter in their son’s lives. I learned so much by reading this, such as how I should change my parenting style and what is acceptable and unacceptable attitudes. The book is not too heavy but just enough depth to convict me on some things I need to work on. I also appreciate how Dr. Leman used his own experiences to expand on his points.
Doug: So I recommend if you’re a mom and you want to have even more confidence raising your boys, go get or any of your kids, but go get What A Difference A Mom Makes for $2.99 between now and the end of February of 2020. So Dr. Leman, besides the psychological disclosure of isn’t that kid crazy, well, you would never say crazy, but that kind of concept. Would you ever say to your kid, your 10 year old, tell me what bothers you about the four and two year old? Would you ever ask them that question?
Dr. Leman: Sure. But I give him a litany of things that I observe first. So he knows that he can swing for the fences because sometimes as a parent you don’t know. I mean she described four year old is almost saintly, but who knows what saintly four year olds does when mom’s eyes are not on the room. So that’s always good. Always good to get the kid’s insight into that. You want to listen, you want to be a listener without being judgemental and that’s hard to do.
Doug: So say 10 year old says, I don’t want you to touch my Legos, we’ll choose one. Then do you go as a mom to the four… or dad to the four year old and say, hey four year old, Legos of 10 year olds, off limits.
Dr. Leman: No. I would wait until… because that situation is going to come. Sure as God made little apples, where that kid’s going to test that out to see if anybody really meant business. So when mom catches them with Lego’s in hand, then I’d pull four year old and says, hey, I’m very disappointed. I think your brother made it really clear that those were his Legos and he didn’t want anybody playing with them.
Dr. Leman: And here you are doing it. I’m very disappointed in the fact you’re not respecting your brother’s wishes. That makes mommy very unhappy. That’s exactly how I’d handle it. So now you’ve hit him at both levels. You hit him from a 10 year old’s position, but you’ve also shared with him as a mom how that made you feel.
Doug: How do you also say to your 10 year old, yeah, I know that four and two year old, they act like angels but you and I both know they’re not. Would you ever say that as well to the 10 year old?
Dr. Leman: Yeah, yeah. But you could do it in guessing way. You could say, honey, you know what? I think most people see your little four year old brother as a pretty cool little four year old who minds and does things sort of perfectly. I think you and I both know there’s times that that little angel has a few little horns on his head to. Something like that. Something the 10 year old would understand.
Dr. Leman: And again, at least the 10 year old saying, hey, somebody understands where I’m coming from. This isn’t easy. When something has to be done, the garbage has to be taken out, they don’t call on that four year old. You know who the garbage man in this house is. And I get in trouble for what they did. Is it my fault that four year old decided to traipse through the puddle and ruin their good shoes? Mom said I was supposed to be watching them. Yeah, I watched him. I watched him walk right through the puddle. What was I supposed to do? So again, keep in mind, you just have to make the sale to the customer, parent. And you have three little customers and they’re all very different.
Doug: Well, a little terminating story to back this up. So we have two boys and they’re four years apart. And I thought the younger one was an angel. I really did. I thought that he was perfect. And the great thing about our second son is that at times he’ll tell us the truth and he shouldn’t. And so we were like talking to James and Jay, our oldest, and he was saying, hey, brothers may not be as pure as you think he is. So we were, I sat down with the younger one. I said, “Do you ever provoke your brother?”
Doug: And he smiled and he says, “Oh yeah, all the time.”
Dr. Leman: I love it.
Doug: It crushed my opinion that he was the saintly child then I realized, yeah, these younger ones are poking the older ones all the time and then it really helped the older one to know that I did see that the younger ones were not walked on water and not perfect. You do need to do it. It helps. I don’t know how to say it other than that, so.
Andrea: I’m wondering if from the other side of the coin, if there’s anything that Sierra and all of us moms out there can do to actually build the family relationships. Like what suggestions do you have? I think what you’ve talked about already is like super powerful, but are there like traditions or activities or things that you could do on the other side to draw them together?
Dr. Leman: Well, I think when a mom says, “Honey, I need your help. Could you help me solve this?” We know this about us, men. Men love to solve problems. Give young men an opportunity to help moms solve problems. You can even invent the problems if you want, mom, I don’t care. Honey, I need your help. You’re so strong, could you do this for me? And so you have kids who are now taller than you. Hey honey, I can’t reach that. Would you get that for me? And then just a slip of a commercial announcement. You know what I love about you? If I asked you to do something, you do it with a smile on your face. Wow, makes me proud just to be your mom. I love you. Thanks honey. That’s all. There are little taglines that you give kids every day.
Andrea: So when the kids are helping you, it changes their perspective on their other siblings?
Dr. Leman: No, it changes their perception of themselves. The kid that’s acting out feels what? Hurt by life, life’s unfair. I’m always picked on. I’m always the one. So when a mom says, honey, I was just thinking about you today when I asked you to clean the garage yesterday to help me because I know dad wanted it cleaned up and you volunteered to help. I was thinking how easy it would be for you to make an excuse or say you had to have homework done or something, but you know what, you did it with a smile on your face. I just wanted to let you know that’s a great sign of maturity in your life. You’re growing up and I just appreciate your willingness to help. I am so lucky to have a son like you. If you want to add, now those two little slugs… no, you don’t want to say that.
Doug: Well, you know the other thing that you said that again I’m starting to see in living color is if you get your kids to serve others. That that just helps get the eyes off myself and to others. And now that can change dynamics and our family loves now to go do that as a group and as a family. And you said we need to have a protocol and it can’t just be about our own selfishness but about investing in others. Yeah.
Dr. Leman: Yeah. Just before Christmas time, NBC had a special called Ellen’s Eggnog, which stood for Ellen’s greatest gifts, grandest gifts or something, blah, blah, blah. But it was a marvelous show where they gave really deserving grateful people in life, great gifts. They gave one kid $150,000 for example, and a brand new car.
Dr. Leman: They gave one man who had lost his wife to cancer with two little girls, they gave him a new house. It was unbelievable. But my wife and I were watching the three night special and everybody that watched the program was in tears apparently, we were, but our son created that show and he was the head writer for and the executive producer of it and we were laughing because that’s who Kevin was as a little kid.
Dr. Leman: He was always a giver. He was always generous. He was always a helper. And here he is, I don’t know, I think he’s 40 years old now or so, but he loves to help people. And it’s something he learned in the confines of his home. And we saw a recent video of our kids that was found that we didn’t know existed, our daughter Hannah sent it to us and it was Christmas time in a Leman home.
Dr. Leman: And we remarked about if you look at that video right now, you could almost forecast what those kids were going to be like as adults by just watching that Christmas video when they were little kid. So here’s something for you all to think about. The little boy or little girl you once were, guess what you still are. So it’s really important to train kids. It’s really important to have these conversations that Doug and Andrea have suggested you have with your kids.
Dr. Leman: It’s called relationship building and it really pays off and you only have a short window to do this parents. Life goes by awful quick. Trust me, those of us who have kids who are older will ask the question every day, where’d those years go? They seem like minutes. So make the best of every day. Put a smile on the heart of your kid. Do it smart.
Doug: Amen. And my encouragement to you is, and I’ve said it a ton, Dr. Leman changed the way I parent and now as teenagers, we’re having way too much fun with our kids. It seems like we’re cheating somehow, but if you invest the effort early and now it a way pay off, we’re living proof. So please, please, please do it. If you want a roadmap, go get one of Dr. Leman’s books, it’s what helped us.
Doug: So right now you get What A Difference A Mom Makes between now and the end of February of 2020 where eBooks are sold for $2.99. Okay, we love adding to your parenting toolbox so you love those kids more and more. And we look forward to the next time we get to be with you and Sierra, thank you for this questions. Anybody that wants to go to birthorderguy.com/podcastquestions. We love answering them.
Andrea: Yeah, thank you Sierra. This was a great question for a great discussion. So have a good week.
Doug: Take care. Bye-bye.

Feb 11, 2020 • 25min
What To Do When Your Kid Hits Mom (Episode 300)
What do you do when your kid hits you? Listen in to learn more about how to handle your kids when they hit you.
**Special Offer– Feb 1 – 29: What a Difference a Mom Makes ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing
Produced by Unmutable
Transcript
Doug: One of the more common questions that we get asked is what do I do with my children who hit? Yep. We get the one obviously about siblings, but more and more we get questions about what do we do about my kids that hit? Well, that’s the question that we get to ask Dr. Leman today for you.
Doug: Hi, I’m Doug Terpening.
Andrea: And I’m Andrea.
Doug: And that was like a low energy, weird kind of beginning. I don’t know what was wrong with it, but I guess who wants to be happy about anybody hitting mom? That’s weird. So, okay. But glad you’re here with us today. I want to let you know that if this is your first time with us, this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raise any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, Dr. Leman, this is not a ask Dr. Leman question, but it really is because the number of moms that are asking us increases to say, “What do I do when my child hits me?” So we’re going to do this in two parts. The first question I’m going to ask you is if I have a three year old who hits mom, what does mom do and what does dad do with the three year old?
Dr. Leman: Okay, well, number one, I appreciate you guys tackling this because kids are creatures of habit. And kids, during the developmental years, once they hit about 16 or 18 months, a kid can get very powerful. They’re acutely aware of the relationship between them doing something and you as a parent reacting or responding in kind. What happens is a kid will … They don’t haul off and slug mommy at age three usually, but it happens. And a mom can read that as, isn’t he adorable? Isn’t he cute? No, there’s nothing cute about a youngster hitting their parent, especially a young boy hitting his mommy or young girl hitting her daddy. Those are the key relationships in families. Keep that in mind. So through trial and error, a kid learns that that’s okay. Well, why do they learn it’s okay? Because the parent didn’t handle it the first time right.
Dr. Leman: So for all you young mommies who have little infants, they’re not crawling yet even, keep this in mind. The first time that kid ever hits you, you need to get a look on your face that looks like angry mama bear who just got her foot caught in a trap. You got to do everything and snarl as you say it with a humongous no. And with young kids, what you do with any kind of hitting, because parents don’t know what to do, they always tell me that. What do you mean you don’t know what to do? You’re five foot four and your child is 24 inches tall. What do you mean you don’t know what to do? Put your arms around the kid in such a way that they can’t hit you. That’s lesson number one.
Dr. Leman: Lesson number two is when you’ve done that and secured them so you know they’re not going to continue that behavior, you put them someplace. If it’s a playpen, and by the way, I hope all you young moms have little playpens of sorts. I know they call them different things, pack and play and everything else, but you know the point. Pick up the child, isolate them, put them in there with a stern no. Okay? That’s giving your kid vitamin n, which we approve of here on our podcast. If it’s appropriate, put a child in their room, close the door, hold the door if you have to. Let that kid have an immediate timeout. I hate that word, but you’re isolating the kid. You’re removing the kid from the scene. The scene is the kid creates a situation that is hitting mom or hitting dad, they need to be isolated immediately. So that’s how you physically handle it, but you also have to use words.
Dr. Leman: Now again, when you talk to a two year old, there’s not a lot of reason in a two year old. But something very similar like, “Mommy doesn’t like that. That hurts mommy’s feelings. That makes mommy feel sad inside.” Kids can understand that. So keep it simple. Someone said keep it simple, stupid. Well, I don’t want to call you stupid, but I’m telling you this isn’t rocket science, what we’re talking about right now, especially with a little three year old. Now again, I’ll give you that kids come with a bent, a disposition. It seems like some kids have an attitude when they come out of the womb. But nevertheless, you cannot allow the behavior to continue. Okay. So again, for you adults, keep in mind you’re training up a child and you’re representing all of womanhood to this young girl or young boy. And I underscore boy because it’s really important that a man, young man, learns to respect his mom.
Andrea: So this is great for mamas who have young children who haven’t yet hit them. Now I’m a listening mom and my three year old has developed a habit of hitting me. Do you have any advice for me?
Dr. Leman: Well again, habits only continue because they’re rewarded. And that’s where parents fail to see. This is operate conditioning at its best. And that’s why I say the first time a kid does something, you have to nip it in the bud so to speak. Because again, habits don’t continue. I don’t care. People tell me their kid whines and he’s nine years old. Give me a break. What have you done, parent, to nip that whining at age three? You didn’t do anything or you did inappropriate things and that’s why they continue to whine at age nine. So behavior only changes in your kids when you change whose behavior? Yours. And I’m the guy that wrote Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours. You don’t make children mind, but you set up situations where a kid figures out I might need to fall in line and do what expected of me.
Doug: So Andrea, you have your three year old, your cute little bundle, in your arms, maybe a two year old. And they turn around and they start just patting your cheeks and then she or he slaps it hard. Could you go full on mama bear or snarl, no, isolate them?
Andrea: Well, first of all, I think you’re painting a different picture. That sounded like they were being playful and they didn’t realize they were really … I think it’s more of a situation where the child is actually angry at me because I took away their toy, I’m making them go take a bath, they don’t want to, and they lash out. Now in a situation like that, it’s a lot easier to rise up and become mama bear because I realize I’m not going to let them treat me this way.
Doug: Dr. Leman, does it matter if it’s the kids angry or the kids playing? Does it matter at all?
Dr. Leman: Well, let me point out, though, that the scenario that the lovely Andrea just painted where a kid doesn’t realize they’re hitting is more along the two year old line. Three year olds know what they’re doing. So there’s a big huge learning gap between a two year old and a three year old. But she makes the point that, again, there are kids who innocently will slap at mom or … But nevertheless, you still give that innocence a big no and a growl because that kid has to understand that. And you still hold the kid’s arms in so they can’t do that. Again, this is important. Abuse in our country is rampant. And with all the knowledge we have about abuse and all the high profile cases we’ve seen where people have been jailed and the reputation’s ruined, you would think that people would pay more attention.
Dr. Leman: Look at the professional athletes who’ve lost millions of dollars through contracts because of spousal abuse. And again, remember abuse comes with the tone and the words. The little kid who you won’t get something for, a treat or whatever, he says, “I hate you.” Really? He hates you. Okay. So the very next time that child asks for anything, you tell him no. “Mommy, can I have a glass of milk?” “No honey, you can’t.” You’ve thrown the kid a curve ball. He’s thinking, “What’s wrong with her?” Let him figure it out. Even a three year old will figure it out sooner or later. You slip him the commercial announcement that says, “I don’t like the way you talk to me. Mommy never wants to do anything for you when you talk to me like that.” So again, all you’re doing is, they have this invisible fence with dogs. You ever seen those things?
Doug: Yep.
Dr. Leman: They work and they’ll keep a dog in the yard. It’s an invisible fence. And I think every parent needs an invisible fence where their little son or daughter knows that you don’t cross the line there. If you do, you’re going to get zapped emotionally by mama bear or daddy bear depending upon the situation. But again, I’m so glad we’re tackling this today because I’ll ask the question for you. Hey Dr. Leman, what if the kid’s 10 or 12?
Doug: That was my-
Dr. Leman: Whoa. Yeah, you got a huge problem there. And you also have a track record of being permissive, now catch this, or way authoritarian with this kid. If you’ve physically been hitting this kid since he was two years old because you thought that was a cool idea, age 10 he’s hitting you back, or 12. Well, who taught him to hit to begin with?
Dr. Leman: So again, these things just don’t come out of thin air. There’s reasons why kids hit. A kid who’s striking out at those people that are supposed to love him the most is saying by the behavior, “I feel hurt by life. Therefore, I have a right to strike out at life.” Well, who and what is life for a 12 year old? It’s their brother, their sister, their parents. The old song You Always Hurt The Ones You Love is profound title because that’s what happens to people in life. So you need some real help if you’ve got a 12 year old that’s hitting you. And just ask yourself, ladies, if that’s your son, “What kind of a husband is she going to make someday?” If that’s your daughter, “What kind of a wife and mom is she going to be someday?” So these are serious things that I think, and rarely do I say you need outside help, but if you got a hitter at that age, you need some outside help to help you get through this.
Doug: So again, I recommend … The reason we’re doing this podcast is because you want a roadmap, you want the confidence to know what to do. Moms, you want to know what a difference you make? Go get the book between now and the end of February of 2020 for $2.99. Okay,
Andrea. So to your question, what were you going to ask?
Andrea: Yeah. I’m wondering, now I’m a mom who’s got a 10 year old or a 12 year old that is hitting me. Is there any hope?
Dr. Leman: Well yeah, there’s always hope. But I’m just telling you, this is major. This is where you give the kid the bread and water treatment, where this kid gets no privilege, he doesn’t get much of anything. The bread and water means you feed him, he’s got shelter. But, “Mom, would you drive me here?” No. “Can I have this? Could I have $20?” No. You need $20, find a way to earn it. There’s all kinds of neighbors that need yard work done or snow shoveled or you name it. Start showing the kids that they have reason to be grateful. Kids today are not grateful. They’re not grateful for anything. And we make it way too easy on them. And so, if we see the errors that we’ve made have created a situation that’s not good for our kid, the last thing your kid needs at that point is a permissive parent who’s driven by guilt to do more giving to a kid. No, you need to stand this kid up on his own two feet, hold them accountable, let them know that you’ve made some mistakes, but they’re going to see a new parent before their very eyes. That’s what turns kids around. And that’s why I say there is hope.
Andrea: And now they’ll associate the hitting with the bread and water treatment.
Dr. Leman: Absolutely. A simple statement, people aren’t for hitting, they’re for loving. I mean, what kind of a family do you want? Back to Thanksgiving, people always ask you, “Well, how was your Thanksgiving?” And I decided this year to tell some people and say, “Tell you the truth, it was marvelous because there were just 10 of us around the table this year. Usually we have a few strays, but we had no strays this year. It was just family. And spontaneously, one of us started. They stood up and they said, ‘I just want to tell each of you why I’m thankful for you.’ And it was Mrs. Uppington this year that started it and she went around the table. And then the next one proceeded. All 10 of us did that. An hour and 10 minutes later we got to number 10. And our eyes were all swollen, our faces were red because we were all crying.” That’s a great Thanksgiving. Not to mention the great dinner Mrs. Uppington put on the table.
Dr. Leman: But you know what? We do have a lot to be thankful for. And those of you who have grandmas and grandpas in your life, I got news for you. They’re not going to be there forever. Take the time to use the words to affirm to those you love. There is a great Thanksgiving message I think. Valentine’s day is upon us. How about that for a time to say, “Hey listen, you know what? I need to tell you how much you mean to me.” Don’t miss those opportunities, parents.
Doug: And that’s why we’re doing this. So you can solve these things so you can have those kinds of conversations with your kids. That’s really why we’re doing it. And Dr. Leman, I want to go back to something you just said real briefly before the break was that you would actually encourage this mom to go seek outside help. In what form would you say? Or dad, what form would you say that should take?
Dr. Leman: Well, again, I always tell people, “If you’re going to go find outside help, find someone who is directive, who will call a spade a spade with you. Look for someone who wants to get rid of you.” By that, I mean someone who specializes in short term therapy. Remember therapy is just a reeducation. You’ve learned to be the parent you are. They’ve learned to be the kid they are. But we need to relearn some things. If you need a book to reinforce that, pick up a copy of Have A New You By Friday. I thought it’d be sort of neat to write a book where people could sort of shrink themselves. And people love that book. All those Friday books are good. But if you’re in this trying to change some behavior, you can’t miss with Have A New You By Friday. It gets you into who you are and shows you how to change mentally. The decisions you make in your mind are the decisions that will eventually show behavioral change in your life. So you can think your way to behavioral change. That’s an interesting concept. But find somebody. Because sometimes you need an outside opinion just to help guide you through it.
Doug: Yeah. One last question. Andrea and I help out at a nonprofit that helps men and women who either of their own accord ended up in a bad spot or sometimes it’s ladies who ended up with abuse from their husband that just had to flee to get back on their feet. But one of the things that, in hearing their stories, there’s men and women there. When talking to the men, it’s interesting how many of them were kind of angry and at 10 year olds, they were this kind of violent. When does a parent need to throw in the towel and say, “I can’t deal with this kid. Somehow I’ve lost control and I just got to move on.” At what age or when do you know you’re done?
Dr. Leman: Well, usually that happens out of desperation and it usually happened around age 18 when a kid is literally can be on their own because the parents have tried about everything. Because see these kids have stole things from the parent they lie at will, they’ve gotten into trouble at school, maybe with the police. I mean, you get to a point where you just say, “You know something? Prodigal son or daughter, you need to go and live life the way you want. We’re holding you back.” And that’s a tough thing for a parent. That’s tough love with a capital T L. But I think sometimes it comes to that. And I think sometimes you have a very kind of conversation with your kid that goes like this. “We love you, but you know what? We really can’t live with you. It’s just, it’s not working for you. It’s not working for us. You need to be gone.”
Dr. Leman: And for some kids they’ll go, some kids will go in the service. And the Master Sergeant can be a pretty good teacher to a young private. Some kids don’t cut it in the military either. They get dishonorably discharged. But if you look at people who’ve had a trouble life, very few who have adult troubled lives had wonderful childhoods. They had terrible, for lack of a better term, childhoods. They had poor relationships. They had no one that they could really trust and talk to. So it all goes back to the parent. When you see a kid that’s off center, you can usually look back at mom and dad and see that there’s a fair share of responsibility that belongs clearly on their shoulders, many times because they were too authoritarian. But these days, many times because they’re too what? Permissive. They breach contempt.
Doug: And now I kind of regret my question because it was taking us down a different path because you’re right, when I think about those stories, they grew up with really bad parents and there was abuse in the family, which is what caused them to continue that lifestyle. So yeah.
Dr. Leman: But see, someone like Doug or Andrea Terpening who volunteers there, you can be a difference maker because you can plant the seed. Do you think that life could be different for you? And see, when you give that vitamin E that says, “I really believe life could be different for you, but I think it’s going to be really difficult.” So you’re not blue smoking them, you’re not saying, “Oh, this is easy. Here, read this book and you’ll be a new person in five days like Dr. Leman said.” It’s not that easy for people who that entrenched in a negative lifestyle. They need some successes, but they need some cheerleaders on the side.
Dr. Leman: I’ll tell you a very personal thing. And I’m just telling you this because it’s who I am. But a friend of mine has a grandchild who was a heroin addict, okay? He served time. He’s in his late twenties. And I heard about how he has kicked heroin and he doesn’t have a car yet, to give you an idea. He was living out behind some retail stores in the desert of Tucson, Arizona. But now he’s working at a fast food place, has to wear a tie to work because he’s now in management, and he’s really turned his life around. What I heard that, I told my wife, I said, “I’m going to go out and see if I can find that kid.” Now he doesn’t know me from Adam. And so I walk in, stupid me, I walk in at the lunch hour, they’re very busy. I asked for that kid and they said, “Well, he’s over there but he’s busy right now.” And I said, “Well, when he gets a second, just have him pop over here. I only need a minute with him.”
Dr. Leman: So I patiently waited. He comes over and looks at me like, who’s this old guy? I said, “Hey listen, I just want you to know I heard your story. That’s an inspirational story. You are an inspiration to me and I want to wish you the very best.” And I stuck out my hand and I shook his hand. Now inside that hand was a hundred dollar bill just for fun. But see, that’s who I am. I love inspirational stories. I love to see if maybe something I could say or something I could do could help that young adult on the right path of life. See, I think we all can be Johnny Appleseeds along that line. Look for places where you can invest in people, even in a 30 second conversation.
Dr. Leman: Do you think that guy is ever going to forget this old guy that came up and slipped him a hundred dollar bill and said, “Hey, good job. I’m so happy to know that you’re on the right track in life.” And what it cost me, it cost me the time to go out there and it cost me a hundred dollar bill. But that’s vitamin E in the flesh. I think that’s how we should live our lives. But again, I’m not sharing that story to say, “Look at me.” Trust me. Well, we’ve done this our entire life and Sandy and I have done it when we didn’t have two nickels to rub together. So it’s not a matter of somebody saying, “Oh, Dr. Leman, that’s easy for you because you can afford this.” No, we did it when we couldn’t afford Jack or diddly.
Doug: Well, Andrea for years has said that we should be serving more. You say that we should serve more. And now that we’ve gotten more involved in this nonprofit of helping them and serving down there, it just fills us up. And the impact, especially on our younger kids, has been way more positive than I ever would have dreamed of. And I know we started this off talking about what do I do when my kid hits mom? But man, getting your kids to go serve others is like, man, there’s nothing bad about that. But we should save that for another time.
Andrea: Yeah, that’s another podcast itself.
Doug: Andrea has given me the wrap-up sign. Good job, Andrea. We’ve got to wrap it up. Will do. Thank you, Andrea. So quick reminder, get the book What A Difference A Mom Makes between now and February 29th of 2020. Ebook, $2.99. And mama bear, don’t be afraid to say no the first time it happens and isolate them and you’ll be thankful years down the road. So thanks for hanging out with us and we hope this adds to your parenting toolbox and we look forward to the next time we get to be with you.
Andrea: Enjoy those kiddos.
Doug: Take care.
Andrea: Bye-bye.

Feb 4, 2020 • 15min
Should we help with homework after stopping school for 2 years? – Ask Dr. Leman 140 (Episode 299)
It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman: “Should we help with homework after stopping school for 2 years?” Find out Dr. Leman’s answer in today’s episode.
**Special Offer– Feb 1 – 29: What a Difference a Mom Makes ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing
Produced by Unmutable
Transcript
Doug: Travel abroad, two years, no work, kids in a van across the United States and Europe. Ah, sounds delightful. But what do you do when you come back to reality and you have to put those kids back in school? What do we do? What do we not do as parents? That’s the question that Tina asked today. How much should we help? How do we agree on how we’re going to help them after we’ve taken a two year hiatus? Hi, I’m Doug Triponi.
Andrea: And I’m Andrea.
Doug: We are so, so glad that you joined us today. And we just want to let you know if this is your first time, this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or a child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, Tina’s question today is about traveling abroad for two years. Doesn’t that sound great, Andrea?
Andrea: Yeah.
Doug: I would have loved to do that. Well, not two years. That would have been too long, and then thinking about all the little animals. Okay, so Dr. Leman, we’re going to jump right into this one. Here is Tina’s question.
Tina: Hello Dr. Leman. My name is Tina [Leehome] and I have been reading your books and listening to your podcasts for years now. I first got your book, Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours, like over 12 years ago at a book club and I didn’t even have kids yet. And I remember that just changed my whole life to read that book. I have a question about homework. I have kids that are now 12, 10, 8 and almost 5, and we did a two year traveling trip. We took two years off and we traveled six months in the United States and then we traveled a year and a half in Europe in an RV. And we started to do school at first, but then we felt that it was taking away from the journey of the trip. So we stopped doing school.
Tina: And now we have started the kids in school in a public school, but it’s a small town community and I’m having a really hard time. My husband and I aren’t agreeing on how we should be helping them in school. And I know your official stand on homework is letting them do it and coming to us, but I feel like right now that we need to be partially their teacher because they didn’t get this and they’re having a lot of catch-up. I just would love some clarity on how to help our kids catch up and-
Doug: And get their homework done. So.
Dr. Leman: Wow. Okay. Wow. Well at first when I heard this, I have to tell you, I pictured the early ’70s, a Volkswagen van with painted flowers on the side of it that said flower power. But having a listen to Tina, I guess that wasn’t the case and it was a challenge, but you referred back to the book Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours, which by the way has sold over a million copies for a reason. If you have troubles with your kids, there’s a great book to pick up, Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours. But one of the big things in that book, Tina, is take time for training. And here’s what you guys have done, and I’m sure you thought about this before you took this two year hiatus from life, so to speak, especially school life, but you’ve broken training. That’s one of the things you’re experiencing now about trying to get the kids back into school.
Dr. Leman: Kids develop self confidence and a psychological security from the mundane, from the predictable, going to school every day, doing homework every day, having a bedroom to call your own. All those mundane things help kids grow up in a secure manner. Now as adventurous as six months traveling here and then six months in Europe sounds, and that’s an education, I’ll give you that, we’ve taken away from the formal teaching. So now when you come back, and I understand well that you’ve read my book well and understand that I really think parents should stay out of homework, but this isn’t a case of staying out of homework. This is a case of giving your kids tutorial help in the home. And yes, both of you can do that, husband and wife can do that, or if you’ve got the bucks to hire somebody else to do it for you, so be it, but it really isn’t a matter of just homework. It’s a matter of tutoring.
Dr. Leman: The catch up was used a few moments ago and your kids in all probability have some catching up to do. I would say especially your eight year old, if I had to pick one child, because they missed some really interesting building blocks along the educational highway of life. So it’s really important that you and husband get to a point where you agree. I wouldn’t split hairs on homework. I would just take it on as this is tutoring, catching up tutoring that we have to do to get our kids up to grade level. Now since you’re in a public school, the kids are tested and it would really behoove you to know exactly where your kids are grade level wise. In public schools for the most part, it’s not hard to catch up because we’ve dumbed a lot of things down quite frankly. Now I know that’s a wide brush and I’m going to get some nasty emails on that, but across the board in general, we’ve dumbed things down in public schools.
Dr. Leman: So find out from the teaching staff where your kids are so you know how much of a gap there is to make up. Now, you might be surprised that one of these kids, or maybe two of them are on grade level right now. Who knows? But wherever they are, they’re going to have to catch up to the routine, if nothing else, of being disciplined to come home from school, do their homework. And again, we’ve talked about that on our podcast. Every family is different, every kid’s different, but most kids that I talk to and I talk with a lot of kids, they want to get that homework done right away. In fact, a lot of them told me they do it in the car on the way home or on the bus on the way home because they want their free time to be their free time.
Dr. Leman: So for starters, again, I don’t think you look at this as homework. I think you look at this as tutorial help to do some catching up. Plus the assessment on the school’s part and your interpretation of that is very important as to how you move forward. But again, husband or wife, whatever the differences are, Tina, you guys got to be on the same page or the kids are going to pick up that dissension and they’re going to use that to their advantage, which is actually going to end up to their disadvantage.
Andrea: I was going to ask you, Dr. Leman, how would you advise Tina to get on the same page with her husband?
Dr. Leman: Well number one, she has to be honest with her feelings toward her husband’s attitude toward this. Men are like kids. I’ve said that so many times. Kids don’t like it when they know that mom or dad is upset. Right? Well guess what? Husbands don’t like it when they know their wives are upset. So you start at that emotional level to get that man on board when he sees how important this is to you. So simple words, “Honey, I’m very upset. I feel a distance between you that I don’t like.” Men don’t like to hear distance between themselves and their wife because they interpret that in a very physical, emotional way. So now you got his attention. Tell him why you’re upset. Tell him what doesn’t sound right about this. And yes, you can precede it with, “Honey, I could be wrong on this, but,” you can soften it, but you still have to tell them as straight out as you can. You know your husband better than anybody else, so you know how to approach him. You know what works, you know what doesn’t work. So proceed with caution.
Doug: Also, at other times you’ve said even if your kids maybe aren’t doing super great in school, but they’re a reader, you don’t have to worry about them. So she has a 12 year old. Does that apply to a 12 year old?
Dr. Leman: If that 12 year old is a voracious reader, I wouldn’t bat an eye at what’s happened. That kid will fall in line sooner or later. If they’re a voracious reader, they’re going to do very well in school. That’s the building block. Show me a voracious reader who likes math and I’ll show you a successful person throughout life.
Doug: Yeah. I think about our oldest, was an okay student. I wouldn’t have called him great, but loved to read. And now he’s super excelling on his own. He learned how to work and he loves to read, but school was not his top 10 forte. What about-
Dr. Leman: Well see, but it wouldn’t surprise me someday if James went and tackled a PhD.
Doug: I agree.
Dr. Leman: For that very reason, that he’s a voracious reader.
Doug: Right, yeah. And he likes to learn. I mean far more than anything else, he wants to learn on his own, which has been huge, and nobody has to motivate him to do it. Okay. Before we finish, I want to make sure that I get in and let you know about the e-book promotion. So the e-book promotion offer is What a Difference a Mom Makes. You can get it now to the end of February of 2020 for $2 and 99 cents. So Andrea, do you want to make a difference in your kid’s life?
Andrea: Absolutely.
Doug: And what the thing about, I should have … Dr. Leman, what will a mom get out of reading this book if she does?
Dr. Leman: Well, first of all, mom, I wrote the book, so I’m biased as can be. Go on Amazon and put the title out there. And just read the reviews. Moms are shocked to read, I think, the tremendous indelible imprint that they put on their son’s life. So when they read that book, they’re going to have, I think, a renewed energy of how they can help chart the waters for their young son to be the man that God would have him be, that you’d be proud to have as your son. But you’re a key element. I always said it’s like making a cake and you’ve got to have all those major ingredients in the cake or the cake falls flat. Well, every young man needs a good dose of femininity. He doesn’t get that from his dad, ladies, he gets it from you.
Doug: Yeah, and I would highly encourage you to go look at Amazon and read what they have to say as well. So, you can get it now, What a Difference a Mom Makes, between now and the end of February for $2 and 99 cents. So Dr. Leman, you used the word tutoring versus actually doing the work. For this mom, for Tina, how would tutoring look for her? Or are you saying hire a tutor to help their kids? Which one is it?
Dr. Leman: It’s not homework. It’s, number one, remember I said about the assessment? You have the assessment. And let’s say you find out that eight year old is a grade and a half behind. So you go to school and say, “You guys are the educational professionals here. My kid is a year and a half shy of where they need to be. What do I have to present to my son or my daughter to help them bridge that gap? How do we catch up?” They’ll give you the resources. They’re right there at the school. They’re at the public school. Here are the books. Here’s the gap. And so it’s not sitting down and doing homework with the kid every night. It’s tutorial. It’s getting a kid from A to B to C to D. So you’re strengthening their reserve power so they get to catch up.
Dr. Leman: Talk to any professional. When a kid gets too far behind, it’s really difficult for kids to catch up. So if it’s just a grade or a half grade, that’s very, very doable. So I think that’s great. I think that can happen. The school will help you. They always tell us they’re here to work together with parents and partner with parents. This is a great opportunity for them to partner with you. On top of that, you might have teachers at the school who have, we call them scholar hours at our school at Leman Academy, where a teacher makes themselves available for kids that need extra help and that also should be part of the program. The kids have to understand that that two year hiatus probably took a toll and it’s really important that we make that up.
Doug: Do you think the mom ever needs to, Tina needs to ever sit down with her kids and talk to them and say, “Hey, how are you feeling at school? Do you feel awkward? Are there any emotional barriers to having to get back into the routine that we need to talk about,” or not?
Dr. Leman: Sure because two years … Let’s take a five year old for example, three to five. What percentage of that kid’s life has been in school?
Doug: Zero.
Andrea: They’re probably just starting out now.
Dr. Leman: Yeah. Now jump up to the eight year old and take two years out of that, and depending upon that kid did preschool or not, give the percentage of time that kid has missed school. It’s huge. That’s why when you saw those ages there, I said the one that’s most probably going to suffer here is the eight year old, would be my guess.
Doug: Well I know that you have been for years suggesting tutoring and getting outside help and we’re finally helping our kids with tutoring, and we should have done it years ago. It’s so helpful for our kids and I’ve become a big proponent now of it. So you are actually right on something, Dr. Leman. I know usually you’re not, but this time you’re actually right. And so I would encourage you. Tina, so get on the same page with your husband. Talk to him at an emotional level so he can hear it. Go to the school, which is brilliant. I mean, it’s so simple, right? Go to the school and say, “What do we need do to help this kid get there,” as well. And if need be, get tutoring that you need for it.
Doug: So, great question, Tina. Thanks for asking it. As always, you guys can go to birthorderguide.com and slash podcast question and leave a question there. And we would love, love, love, love to answer your questions. So we hope this helps you add to that parenting toolbox so that you can love those kids more and more. We look forward to the next time we’re with you.
Andrea: Have a good week.
Doug: Take care. Bye, bye.

Jan 28, 2020 • 27min
What a Mom Must Know to Raise Her Son (Episode 298)
From representing womanhood to leaving unique indelible imprints, a mother’s role in parenting her son is vital. Learn more about Dr. Leman’s insight into the relationship between mother and son in today’s episode.
**Special Offer– Feb 1 – 29: What a Difference a Mom Makes ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing
Produced by Unmutable
Transcript
Doug: If you were to ask me, I would say the only reason I am where I am today is because of my mom and what she poured into me. Moms make an incredible impact in their sons’ lives. But how? In what ways? Good, bad, indifferent. That’s what we get to ask dr Leman today. Hi, I’m
Doug Terpening.
Andrea: And I’m Andrea.
Doug: And we are so really, really, really glad that you’re with us today. If this happens to be your first time, I want to let you know that this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raise any concerns for you or child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, during my crazy college days that were not good. They were really bad. I kept going down, down, down, down. It was my mom and her unbelievable, unique, mother-only way that helped pull me back into healthy, good spots because of what she had poured into me when I was a younger kid. So Dr. Leman, the question today is, I’m a mom and I’m wondering, “Well, it’s a boy. I’m a mom. What impact do I really have in his life? What do I need to know? What do I not need to know? Shouldn’t his dad do that?” Help us. What does a mother need to know to impact her boys?
Dr. Leman: Well, it’s such a good topic and a profound one. And I’m so glad that you used the term, “Poured into me.” I want everybody to envision making a cake, okay? Even you men who are listening, okay. Think about making a cake. And what every mom needs to understand is that she has a tremendous impact. I call it the indelible imprint on her son’s life, and so think of making that cake and use the term that Mr. Terpening just used, and that is pour into. And what every young man needs is to have a mom who will pour a great deal of, are you ready for the word? Femininity into that young man’s life.
Dr. Leman: Now, those of you who are veterans of our podcast have heard Doug very bravely and openly say, “I wasn’t exactly the greatest person in the world. I was very authoritarian.” And he’s done a lot of changing, but I think Doug would be the first one, and Andrea would be the person to second the motion, that if you scrape away some of that exterior that Doug Terpening had in his life, even back to those wilder college years, if you scrape away and really look at your heart, that’s Doug’s heart, you would find a softness that Andrea Terpening appreciates today. And their kids, both male and female, have profitted from the tenderness and the softness that appears in Doug Terpening’s life. Yes, it took him a while to get there, but the point is that moms pour into their sons all kinds of things, and I don’t think they’re always even conscious of what they pour into those young men, but the point is that women, you make a huge difference in your son’s life, and a husband’s. Dads, you make a huge difference in your daughter’s life.
Andrea: So you say the first thing that a mom pours into their sons is femininity.
Dr. Leman: Yeah, he needs a good dose of femininity. He gets masculinity, okay? He’s born with such things as testosterone, but you get my drift. You get my point that women have to realize, “Well, I’m just his mom.” What do you mean just his mom? You’re it. You represent all of womanhood to this young man. You set the basic foundation in that young man that he’s going to end up respecting women. So how huge is that today in a woman’s mind that she feels respected by the men in her life? So you’re really laying the cement, the foundation ladies, is what I’m saying.
Doug: Are there some specific things that a mom should be consciously pouring into her son? Such as … I can’t think of anything. What are some things? Ability to listen?
Dr. Leman: Well, kindness, thoughtfulness, gentleness. Boys, if you ever watch kids play, just watch, name an age. I don’t care if they’re three or eight or thirteen, watch them play. Do they play differently than girls?
Doug: Yes, definitely.
Dr. Leman: Yeah. Very much so. And so you don’t have to teach your boy to be rough and tumble, or in most cases to be competitive. Now I can hear people say, “I have the most non competitive son.” Hey listen, there’s always exceptions to anything we talk about here on the podcast. We’re using a wide brush here to describe the differences in young men and young women. There are many, many differences. I think one of the things that women, I look up my life, my mom had a calmness about her. Now, you talk about wild, I got thrown out of cub scouts. I got sent home from fourth grade. I got suspended from high school. I got thrown out of college. I mean I got thrown out of … I got thrown out of adult Bible study. That was just within the past two years.
Dr. Leman: So I’ve been there, but my mother, I’ll never forget. I’m 19 years old, okay? I’m a janitor. I’m making $195 a month and I come home and I announce at the dinner table, “I’m engaged, I’m engaged.” You know what my mother said? She said, “Oh, that’s nice honey. Pass the potatoes, would you? That’s nice honey,” is what she said. I went and put a $20 bill down on a $200 diamond. If I would have ever married that chick, it would have been disastrous. If my mother would have gone into a tizzy and reminded me that I was a janitor making $195 a month. And, “How could you even think of such a stupid thing?” Maybe my rebellious nature would have pushed me into a premature marriage with that woman, which I’m telling you would be disastrous.
Dr. Leman: But she had that ability just to understand. She was the one that went to all those meetings at school with my teachers. The teachers all told her the same thing, that I was a little screwball and someday if I ever applied myself, I might be able to do something with my life. She tucked all that information, but she was not someone who overreacted. And there’s a lot of reactionary people in this world, but my mom had a calmness about her, a perspective. She was a good teacher and she loved her baby son. Trust me. I mean, you’ve heard me tell the story, I would say things about what I did in my life and my mom would come back and say, “Oh, you were such a good boy.” Yeah right. But that’s a mother’s love for her son. So there’s so many things that a mom gives to a son. Gives her, and again, the son is watching how mom treats dad, and maybe more importantly, how dad treats mom. So it’s a daily thing.
Doug: So Dr. Leman, one of the things you’ve said that when you said it, I didn’t believe it, but now that I’ve watched it play out in the Terpening household, I do know it’s true. You say that the most important relationship in a child’s life is boy to mom, or son to mom, and girl to dad. Why is boy to mom or son to mom the most important relationship?
Dr. Leman: It’s almost hard to answer that question other than to say it’s the way it is. It’s like asking the question, “Why is a rock hard?” It’s just if …Talk to any family. And today we’re a two car family for most of us in America, and lots of times we go different directions. We meet someplace for a quick dinner. I mean, it’s a hectic, hectic lifestyle we live in. But here’s my question. You have a boy and a girl and you’re in that situation. Who rides home with dad? Who rides home with mom? Why when the NFL player has just made a great play, why does he look in the camera and say, “Hi, mom.” Why doesn’t he say, “Hi dad?” I mean, it’s almost like it’s in the DNA. What did Jesus say on the cross? He said, “Hey, take care of your mother.” I mean, I’m just telling you it’s the way it is. You don’t need a mathematical theorem here to figure this out.
Andrea: Are there some practical things that us moms should know, other than yes, we pour femininity, gentleness, kindness, these things into our sons? Are there some practical steps or things that we should know as we mother our sons?
Dr. Leman: Yeah. Absolutely. Number one, it’s going to sound like it’s the opposite of what I’m telling you is don’t put a skirt on him. He’s not your daughter, he’s your son. So what do boys do that girls usually don’t do? Do boys spit. We could take a little mini quiz right now. Again, are all boys the same or all girls the same? No. Are there girls that spit? There are. I think as a woman, you have to understand this is a little boy. It’s what little boys do. I mean, little boys are immature next to your daughter. You got a 12 year old daughter and a 12 year old son, or if you want to be different, 13 and 12 okay? They’re not twins. But how different inherently is that young woman from that young man?
Dr. Leman: And so I think for a woman, she has to keep in mind, “Hey, this is a guy, this is a boy. This is part of what a boy does.” He’s showing his bravado. And yes, we make fools of ourselves. Think of what the girls said to us, Doug, in seventh and eighth grade. They said, “Why don’t you grow up?” And we would say with our squeaky voices, “We’re trying to.” So I don’t think this is a topic where you say, “Okay, give me three things that you do as a mom.” It’s not three, it’s 300. It’s 3000. It’s an ongoing process where you, as a young mom, get to appreciate the specialness of this young man in your life.
Doug: Great. Well, when we come back, Andrea, I’m going to ask you how you think about you as a mom to your boys. Like how you think about that relationship. Like do you really have full access to your boys or is it really sort of dad’s job to do things? But I’m going to forget this, so I’m going to do it now. And I want to talk about the ebook special that right now is on, and it is about moms. So What A Difference A Mom Makes for $2.99 from February 1st to February 29th of 2020. What A Difference A Mom Makes for 299, and I thought that the latest … We just flipped on to Amazon. I thought, “I wonder what anybody really says about these books.” And the very first one that just came out, I thought it was really great.
Andrea: This was from November. Jennifer wrote, she gave it a five star review on Amazon and it says, “I needed a refreshing as a mom. My teen son and his younger brother really wear me down. I know I need to change. Fresh perspective. This was just that. What it means to be mama bear to my boys, what they need and what matters most for them and for me. I feel like I have a new plan, a better way to begin again. I love his candor as he writes and shares testimonies, the clear and gentle truth. What we do matters, press on.”
Doug: So what I love about Dr. Leman’s books, and I say it all the time, is exactly what Jennifer just said. He gives you a plan and he makes it clear, candor, and funny. So like if you want, if you’re a mama and you’re wondering like, “How do I engage my son?” And you want to have clarity with a plan, get What A Difference A Mom Makes for $2.99 February 1 through 29. Super easy to read and you’ll enjoy it a ton. Okay, Andrea, so back to you.
Andrea: Yes.
Doug: Do you think you have full access to your sons in all areas to pour into them or talk to them or engage them? Or do you think dad’s supposed to do it?
Andrea: I think that naturally, and before I’d heard any of this from Dr. Leman, I felt like there were a lot of areas that were your territory and that I could be the soft one. I could come and sit down on the couch next to them and snuggle up and maybe ask them how they were doing. But I didn’t realize that there were some areas it was important for me to actually speak into their lives. I kind of felt like once they became teenagers that maybe it was kind of, they were more on the man’s side and I maybe was less important in their lives and I was, mom, make dinner, help them with their school, take care of some of the details in their lives, but not the, like you said, access into their lives. Probably not knowing how, and I still don’t really feel like I know how to delve into their heart.
Doug: Dr. Leman, what would you say to the moms that feel like Andrea described?
Dr. Leman: Well, I would just add to that that a mom is so smart to go to her son and say, “Honey, I need your help with something.” Let that boy learn to help the key female figure in his life, namely his mom. It’s interesting, thinking back on our youngest daughter, Lauren, who today is writing screenplays and she’s writing for television and she’s a toy designer. She’s only 27 years old. She’s got three things she’s made that are in the Disney Worlds in Japan and Florida and in California. So I’m just saying this is a pretty high-functioning kid. But when she was little, my wife would always draw little drawings on her lunch bag. Just drawn with a thick magic marker. Different colors, different days.
Dr. Leman: And when she was about 12, I think Mrs. Uppington decided, “Well, she’s probably a little too old to have drawings on her lunch.” And so they stopped. It was like a few days later when Lauren came to mama bear and said, “Mom, how come you don’t put little drawings on my lunch bags anymore?” And what happened was, yeah, Lauren stopped getting them. But her friends, her friends who loved mama bear’s drawings said, “Lauren, how come you don’t have drawings anymore?” And Lauren, I’m telling you, she was getting drawings on our lunch bags, I think through high school.
Dr. Leman: And so I think what we failed to understand is the little things we do every day, that’s why I say there’s not just three things a mom does. It’s a continuing journey as you learn more about yourself as a mom and how much you need your kids in your life. And how much your kids need you in their life in little ways and big ways. But the things that you talked about, snuggling up, and talking to, and tucking in. And those are things that women are so naturally good at. Men by their nature are not great cuddlers, we’re not great communicators. We’re sort of arm’s length.
Dr. Leman: But when we enter our daughter’s life, wow. And men have to understand that their words are taken very seriously by their daughters, because most daughters want to please their daddies. Most sons want to please their mommies. Back to what I suggested earlier about helping, having your sons help you, Andrea, let him help you, because he actually wants to please you. And that’s one of the ways, ask any man what he gets psychological jollies from in his family, and he’ll tell you providership. There’s a very healthy thing in a man’s life when he provides for his family. Watch what happens to a man when his wife is still gainfully employed and he loses his job. He loses a sense of value of who he is because we identify so much in the world of work, where women as competent or more competent than their male counterpart, they don’t get their main identification from their work. They get it from the relationships they have.
Doug: To that point, Thanksgiving was a couple of months ago here, but at the time of this release, but Andrea, our son went and said, “Hey, I want to try and make a pecan pie.” And Andrea stepped back and just supported him in making that pie, because he was helping out with making all the desserts for Thanksgiving. He volunteered it. And Andrea did an amazing job of like supporting him. He screwed up on it and she just, she didn’t jump in and change it. She just said, “Oh, what about if we try this?” And you should have seen him like puff his chest out when that pecan pie came out and everybody ate it.
Andrea: It was really good too.
Doug: Yeah, but to your point about … But your point about he was trying to please mom and you’re right. They soak up, my two boys soak up when mother is positive and they shrink when she is critical of them.
Dr. Leman: Exactly. So the message is let them please you. But there’s certain things where, lifting something for example, and you’ve got a teenage son, “Honey, would you mind taking that? It’s too heavy for me.” I mean let him show his brawn, his bravado off to you. There’s something inside that young male that wants to show off that, “Hey, I’m becoming bigger and stronger.” And the message, of course, is I can help. And one of the things we preach on this podcast is let kids give back to the family. So mom, you’re not a minor person here, you’re your major in families. The whole family literally centers around you.
Andrea: So Dr. Leman, I do have one question. What is a mother’s role in talking to her sons about pornography? I know you’ve mentioned this on other shows, and I’m just curious what you would say here in the context of this episode.
Dr. Leman: Well, first of all, I mean, if you’re a mom who’s just discovered that your son has been watching pornography, the first thing out of your mouth has to be something to the effect of, “I’m very disappointed in what’s happened here.” Okay? So you put the downer face on that as soon as you possibly can. And then you have to say is you’re disappointed that you’re disappointed for several reasons. “One of the reasons is that it’s so demeaning to women and it takes you down a track of life that’s not productive and it’s very addictive behavior. And so as a woman, I’m not talking as a mom here, I’m talking as a woman, I’m offended that someone your age, with your bright future, could in fact look at this stuff. I got to tell you the truth, I’m glad you’re attracted to the opposite sex. That’s healthy and good. Less problems for you down life’s way with you being attracted to women.”
Dr. Leman: “But again, you have to see the demeaning nature of this. You have to see how women are used in this industry of pornography. And are used by who? By men. It’s a very demeaning thing. And again, I want to go back to the fact that once you watch this stuff, what you saw is embedded in your brain now forever. You’re not going to get rid of that. When you’re 50 years old, you’re going to be able to see that image that you saw in that pornography in your brain. It’s not going to leave you. That’s why it’s devastating to a young person to get hooked on pornography, because it stays with you. It’s not something that you can just turn off. It’ll pop into your mind at the most inappropriate times.”
Dr. Leman: “So as a mom who loves you and cares about everything about you, I’m blown away. Am I surprised? Yes, but if you push me on that, no, because I know it’s so prevalent in our society and it’s so readily available for any eyes to see it. But again, I’d really like to partner with you in seeing if we can get beyond this. This is not an easy thing to shake. And you may want to have to talk to somebody else other than your mom. This might be very uncomfortable for us even to have this conversation. If that’s what it takes, I’ll be willing to pay for a couple of sessions for you to go and talk to somebody about this, because this can be devastating to your future and you have to understand that.”
Dr. Leman: “Now, can I do it for you? Can your dad do it for you? No, this is something you have to do for yourself. And quite frankly, it’s not just an emotional problem. I think it’s a spiritual problem, and I think it’s one that you need to correct between your maker and yourself.” But all that does there is it gets the conversation going. Now that son might get mad, he might shut down, he might come around a week later. And if he does, so be it. We’ll continue to have that uncomfortable conversation, but I think you have to draw some lines in your own mind and you have to put the stamp of disapproval on it for sure. But it has to be laced with compassion and understanding of how that can happen.
Andrea: Great. Thank you, Dr. Leman. I think that that’s really important for us moms to know that our boys hearing from us on this topic will make a difference.
Doug: Well, I just think of my mom would have come in and talked to me about this. Holy smokers, I would have listened. That would have been like … I mean, way more powerful than dad actually. Like dad, I would be afraid of, but mom would be like, oh man, that brings it home.
Dr. Leman: Well, Doug and Andrea, how many parents sit down and talk to their sons about nocturnal emissions, better known as wet dreams? Every kid has one. There’s not many an adult man who can’t tell you what that first nocturnal emission was all about, but it’s something that we don’t talk about. It’s the elephant sitting on the couch in the living room. We don’t talk to our kids. Again, I wrote a book called A Chicken’s Guide To Talking Turkey To Your Kids About Sex. It’s a wonderful book. I co-wrote it with a woman that lives here in Tucson who does seminars on teaching kids about sex from a Christian perspective all around the world. It’s a great book. It’s a great title. It’s my lowest selling title that I’m aware of. Why? Because no parent gets up and says, “You know what I want to do today? I want to talk to my kids about sex.” So parents, you can’t stick your head in the sand. You got to talk turkey to your kids.
Doug: Well, thank you, Dr. Leman for helping us. And for all those moms that are listening to this, we hope this helps you say this is how you can impact your sons. And I just want to remind everybody between now and February 29th of 2020 you can get What A Difference A Mom Makes for $2.99. Go and get it. And the reason we’re doing this is because we really do want you to enjoy your kids, love your kids more and more, have more tools so that you can just be a better parent for your kids’ sake. So we love being with you. We look forward to the next time we get to be with you.
Andrea: Have a great week.
Doug: Take care. Bye-bye.

Jan 21, 2020 • 21min
Should my kid’s school push for ADHD testing? – Ask Dr. Leman 139 (Episode 297)
It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman: “Should my kid’s school push for ADHD testing?” Listen in to find out Dr. Leman’s answer.
**Special Offer– Jan 14 – 31: When Your Best Isn’t Good Enough ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing
Produced by Unmutable
Transcript
Doug: The child just can’t sit still. They’re bouncing around the room, they’re not focused on the math the way they need to and the school says therefore we need to do ADH testing on the child. Is that a good thing? Will it help my child? Does she have ADHD or is this just the phase she’s going through? That’s the question that Pam asked Dr Kevin Leman and we get to hear his answer. Hi, I’m Doug Terpening.
Andrea: And I am Andrea.
Doug: And I’m super duper happy that you are here with us today. I mean like honestly, I’m so happy for you to be able to grow in your parenting. No falsity like, but oh, okay. I’ll jump into the topic. If this is your first time, welcome. We want to let you know this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or child, please go seek a local professional for help. So now that I’m so wound up, I’m just going to keep going and you guys, Andrea and Mr Leman, you can just stop me. Our kids are doing so well now that they’ve left the house and we’ve just had an incredible last two weeks of interaction with our grown children. And I just want to say Dr Leman, thank you a bazillion for helping us change our parenting because we were headed to rebellion and now we’re not.
Doug: So everybody out there, if you don’t know why we do this, it’s because it’s changed our lives and it can change yours as well. So thank you. Okay, into today’s question. Here is Pam’s question for Dr Leman about ADHD.
Pam: Hi Dr Lehman, my name is Pam and I had a question about ADHD and specifically what to do with a kid whose school is starting to push for testing. My sister actually called me today and this has been an ongoing conversation discussion, but the teacher, her daughter’s class just sidelined them today and wants the testing done. And this little girl is eight years old, she doesn’t have her times tables memorized, she loves books, but she doesn’t like reading on her own all that well yet she’s not the best speller. Basically, she is exactly how I was when I was that age. I was diagnosed in the fourth grade with ADD and I never was put on medication, which I’m thankful for, but I also know how stressed out everyone was around me and how big of a frustration I was to them. My sister on the other hand, thrives in academically competitive environments.
Pam: I’m a children’s book illustrator, my sister is a biochemist. She does not know what to do with this little girl who is wired just exactly like I am and it seems like the school doesn’t either. I feel like longterm perspective there is nothing to worry about but everyone else is panicking so I’m wondering if you can offer any advice.
Dr. Leman: Wow. Well, thank you for the well thought out question, ma’am. As soon as you mention testing to a parent, most parents ears go up and back at the same time. Most parents have a negative preset about testing children. Not for vision, not for hearing, but if you get into the emotional side of things, there’s a negative preset there. That being said, I would have to in full disclosure tell you that I basically way on the side of non-medication for young children, but here comes the however. I’ve been around a long time, I’ve seen a lot of kids who quite frankly need medication for them to be able to focus, give focused attention to schoolwork. You mentioned that you thought that school systems don’t take a look at the big picture, the long term effect of medication and I believe that’s true. And the jury’s out on just what are the long term repercussions to medicating children. I can relate one medical story, one conversation I had with my own physician and he was a great physician.
Dr. Leman: Steve is my persiguen and I had my knee done by him and he’s a great human being, a great physician. We were talking about the medication that I was going to take after the surgery and I’ll never forget what he said to me. I said, well, I’m really not that gung ho on taking those meds, I think I’d rather just tough it out. And he said, well, Kevin tell you the truth all those drugs do is scramble your brains anyway. And it’s true so again, I have a negative set in my mind of medication, especially for young children. But again, the however has to be spoken, there are kids who need medication. And ADD is a medical problem, ADD should be diagnosed not by a school teacher, but by a physician who’s trained in obviously medicine, but also behavioral medicine. There are a lot of pediatricians these days who have gone off into that specialty area. So I think you have to be careful about it and yet I think you have to be street-smart here.
Dr. Leman: If you look at the child’s track record in school in the third grade and they’re not reading well and they don’t spell well, and what’s going to change that? How long do you wait before you intercede and bring in some extra help? Well the extra help might be there, but if the kids is unable to focus, we’re in trouble. So as silly as this sounds to some, you can medicate a child for a period of time and see what kind of behavioral change there is in a child and see if the school work improves very measurably. If it did and if it were my son or daughter as anti-medication as I am, I think I would choose to medicate, but I wouldn’t medicate them all year around. I would use a smaller dosage as I possibly could. I would consult with a physician that could certainly understand my inced about medicating a child.
Dr. Leman: This isn’t one where it’s easy to use the broad brush so to speak and say do this or do that. It really is an individual situation where you have to sit down with your physician and make an informed decision about what’s best for your child. Let me say this, are there too many kids medicated today? Yes, in my opinion, way too many. So again, a lot of kids who are boisterous, who are active can get falsely labeled ADD and we drug the little suckers. Again, I think when you put drugs in a kid’s body, you need to put a lot of forethought, a lot of discussion, get some people’s opinion to make a good informed decision for your child. That’s what I’m saying, so.
Andrea: Dr Leman, what are the problems with those medications?
Dr. Leman: Well, again, I don’t want to speak as a physician here because I’m not, but, and by the way, I’ve never diagnosed a kid ADD. Are there kids that I looked at and said, I think that kid’s ADD? Yeah, plenty of them. But I always referred those parents to a medical doctor who actually wrote a book on ADD as well. He’s very well known who made the diagnosis for kids and parents who saw me. But there’s some indication that it can stunt the growth in children, for example. And again, they used to just use Ritalin years ago, there’s other medications physicians use now. Life is a lot more complex and they’re learning more about ADD and ADHD. And again, kids have all kinds of deficits, processing deficits, got kids who are dyslexic and we’re an over medicated society and I’m just saying we should use strain in medicating children.
Dr. Leman: I think getting a kid who’s not doing well in school early, a tutor is an excellent idea. Couple hours a day, maybe even just an hour a day, maybe it’s a teenager down the street, a family friend, preferably not mom or dad, that usually doesn’t work real great. But get the kid some help. I mean if your kid’s a reader and there are parents who have kids who are ADD who are voracious readers, that’s a tremendous plus. If your kid’s a voracious reader, half of your kid’s education problems are over right there, because that kid will do well in school because his or her veracious attitude toward reading.
Andrea: So Pam said that she was, the lady asking the question, that she was diagnosed ADD in fourth-grade herself, but she was never medicated. Could it be that this little girl just needs more time to physically have an outlet or be creative and that she’s just not ready for that focus of school.
Dr. Leman: Sure. I mean every kid is different. I mean, I have often wondered out loud how many labels they would have put on me as a kid because I was a handful. And again, many people outgrow ADD, they physically just outgrow it. And yet there’s adults who have ADD. There’s cases where out of the blue seemingly an adult became ADD. So people are complicated, life’s complicated, the human body is complicated and when you get into medication you just have to know you’re altering some things that are, you just want to make an informed good choice for your son or your daughter. And that’s not an easy choice for a lot of people to make because they come to that situation just as I do with a preconceived idea about what medication could do or can’t do.
Doug: Well, when we come back from the break I want to ask you how do we talk to our school? But at the break, which here we are, I want to talk about the ebook promotion. You get this right now and that is, When Your Best Isn’t Good Enough. You can get it between now and January 31 of 2020 for $1.99. So Dr Leman, if I read this book, what will I get out of it? What benefit will it do me?
Dr. Leman: Well, I think you’ll get an eye opening experience if you read this book, if you’re one of those people that live in piles, you tend to be a procrastinator, you’re a great starter, but not a great finisher. If any of that rings true in your life, get this book and you will see that you are the culprit that defeat yourself. And it probably is a direct result of you growing up in a home where one of your parents were critical of you. Like I say eye opener, it’s, I’m telling you, this is a book that people write back and say, wow, that was a life changer for me. I never realized that I secretly had a plan to defeat myself. And so that’s pretty eye opening statement. So if you’re one of those people that struggle and you know you’re a lot more competent than you show, this is a book for you.
Doug: One of the things I’ve heard you say in the past is if you’re thinking about going to a counselor to help your or a psychologist to help you out, you would highly recommend that you start with this book and for a buck 99 you might be able to diagnose yourself and help your self get over some things. So if you’re thinking, man, I’m kind of stuck, I want to get up moving forward, When Your Best Isn’t Good Enough, January now to the 31st for $1.99. So Dr Leman, you run multiple schools now and when the school calls up and says, “Hey, we want to do testing for ADD.” It’s going to take some parents a lot of guts to say, “No, we want to take our child to our own medical doctor first.” How do they, can you help that parent who’s afraid to have that conversation? What should they say to the school?
Dr. Leman: Well, I think a parent has absolutely the right to take their kid to their primary physician, the pediatrician to a specialist, whatever. If a school’s making a recommendation, it’s a recommendation based upon facts. Okay. It should be a recommendation that’s not only from the teacher, but one of the other allied professionals within the school and say, “Hey, we think there’s a problem here and we believe that testing is appropriate.” And again, that in my mind is completely up to the parent. Parents who have been left out of the conversation too many times, parents are the conversation. They’re the ones responsible for their children. So if a parent wants to take their kid to their own physician, so be it. That’s great. The point is, is there a problem? Is there a processing problem? Is there an ADD problem? Because if you can get that problem moving in the right direction, chances are that kid is going to be able to learn better and that’s what we’re trying to put into effect. Giving that kid the best possible chance for success.
Andrea: Another question that Pam asked was, once she is tested and if she was labeled ADHD, is that okay? Is there something that goes with that label that’s going to travel with them through the years?
Dr. Leman: Kids unfortunately have more labels than they need. We have kids who have all kinds of individual educational programs and every school has them. Why there’s so many these days, who knows? Might have something to do with, we’ve fed kids processed food from the time they were born. I have no idea, but we sure have a lot of kids who have special needs of one kind or another. And parents today, you hear it all the time, I don’t want my kid to be labeled. Well, how about a label like John or Susan? That’s a nice label, their name. I’m not a label person either, again, I was a guy that was written off by school personnel a reminder for some, if you’re new to our podcast, my guidance counselor told me with a straight face, he couldn’t get me in reform school, let alone college.
Dr. Leman: So my wife’s head nurse said, don’t associate with that janitor, he’ll never amount to anything. I laugh, but that time I didn’t. So a lot of us had been written off, a lot of us have had labels of one kind or another. I understand the parents don’t like labels and we do our best. I know at our schools, not to label kids, but we have a huge team of people that work with kids who are struggling in one area or another. We just try to do our best, work with the kids in the classroom and outside the classroom. And if home and school could work together, that’s always a one two punch that’s hard to defeat.
Doug: So to wrap this up and say it again. So what I hear you saying Dr Lehman is, absolutely you should get the child tested and it should be with a medical professional who is, that knows how to diagnose correctly ADHD. And that we should be working with the school, but it’s the parent’s responsibility to make sure they get, they’re testing the right way. And that maybe we are over quickly diagnosing or medicating students, but if that’s what’s necessary, do it cautiously and wisely. Did I say that right?
Dr. Leman: Yeah, we overmedicate at the adult level too. I mean that’s a huge problem in our country. Somebody gets a cold and they want antibiotics, that’s a whole another story. But we do overmedicate that’s for sure.
Andrea: I like that you add that, give the child the lowest dose possible and do a trial period and see if it’s actually making a difference. Don’t just slap them in there with the normal dose. And then don’t medicate them in the summer. I just think that just goes really well with your whole philosophy of not over-medicating.
Doug: Dr Leman I got to tell you something else real quick while we’re on the subject. You also said get a tutor and the Terpening household has been resisting getting a tutor for years and we finally did. And do you know the relief it has brought to this household is amazing and our kids are way less distracted in that subject than ever before. And I know we didn’t touch on it much, but I have become a, I know you’ve been telling us for years, get a tutor, get a tutor, get a tutor. We didn’t follow it, but that was gold. If my kid was labeled ADHD, I think I might start, that’s one of the first steps I would look into. So yeah.
Dr. Leman: Yeah, it gets a focus. I mean, a kid’s homework for example, can be the focus for the entire evening in a home, with tears and tantrums and yelling and screaming and the gnashing of teeth. It’s crazy. That’s why I say when you look at tutors, don’t look at yourself, mom and dad as tutor, find one.
Doug: Find one. We’ve now become-
Andrea: Somebody who knows the subject.
Doug: We are now fans of tutors, the Terpenings have finally listened to Dr Leman. We don’t like to listen to him very often, but every now and then we do.
Dr. Leman: My wife’s been my tutor all my life. She dresses me, tells me what I should do, what I shouldn’t do, what I should eat, what I shouldn’t eat. And I find Ghirardelli squares next to my body at night, wrappers and who’s been eating those? Not me. The woman who tells me how to eat right?
Andrea: I mean the chocolate wasn’t there just their wrapper.
Dr. Leman: That’s right. I’ve had chocolate on my back, many a night.
Doug: Dr Leman, it sounds like maybe we need to have a counseling session with you and Mrs Leman here, so we’ll work on that later.
Dr. Leman: Yes, I need one.
Doug: Yes. Well Pam, thank you for your question. We love them and you can go to birthorderguide.com/podcast question and leave us your question there. We love it. We love hearing what you need. And as always, we love adding to your parenting toolbox so you can love those kids more and more and more. And we look forward to the next time that we get to be with you.
Andrea: Have a great week.
Doug: And don’t forget to go get this book, When Your Best Isn’t Good Enough. Until the 31st of January 2020 for $1.99. Alrighty.
Andrea: All right.
Doug: I’m out.
Andrea: Bye. Bye.
Doug: Bye bye.

Jan 14, 2020 • 15min
My husband watches violent movies when the kids are around. (Episode 296)
From kid cartoons to everyone’s favorite movie trilogy, violence is abundant in today’s entertainment. How do you navigate that as a parent in today’s society? Listen in to hear Dr. Leman’s insight on today’s episode.
**Special Offer– Jan 1 – 13: Intimate Connection ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
**Special Offer– Jan 14 – 31: When Your Best Isn’t Good Enough ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing
Produced by Unmutable
Transcript
Doug: So you’re worried about your kids because your husband keeps playing really violent video games and he loves to watch those really violent movies and you’ve begged him to stop and you don’t like it. Well, is it a big deal? Is it not a big deal? Are you overreacting? Are you under-reacting? That’s the question we get to ask Dr. Leman.
Doug: Hi, I’m Doug Turpenine.
Andrea: And I’m Andrea.
Doug: And we are very thankful that we are here today with you for your sake. So that you can just man, get that parenting and love them kiddos. But if it’s your first time, I want to let you know that this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help.
Doug: Well, Dr. Leman, I have a confession to start off this podcast with. I grew up playing video games all my life. Like I love the video games. When I got married, Mrs. Turpenine picked them up, went outside with a flame thrower, and melted them all.
Andrea: I think the only video game we ever had in our house was the ping pong, you know? Boing, boing. Yeah.
Doug: You growing up?
Andrea: Yeah.
Doug: You growing up? In your home. Yeah.
Andrea: Right.
Doug: So now, later with kids, I didn’t get to play video games with my kids. And now I think I’m thankful for it, but I’m like this husband. Like I want to play video games a bunch, but I can’t anymore. But now we’ve got wives that are like, my husband does all these things. Is it a good thing, bad thing, overreacting, underreacting? Help us out.
Dr. Leman: Here’s the thing. Now I don’t want to come across like a prudish ogre, but we live in a very violent society. There was a study, it’s an older study, but I remember even in a cartoon, a kid’s cartoon, there was over a hundred acts of violence in a cartoon. It’s so pervasive. We don’t even notice it in our society, but a lot of things have gone way over the top in the video arena of life. I mean, everything from shoot the cop or whatever it’s called, you name it. I mean, there’s all kinds of things that, quite frankly just aren’t good for the young minds of kids.
Dr. Leman: The other thing is that violent movies, I mean a parent who watches violent movies in the presence of younger children, I have no appreciation for whatsoever. That is destructive with children. The brain that God gave us is really interesting because it can retain images for a lifetime. Violent images or how about sexual images? One of the reasons why pornography is so rampant and so destructive in our society is that what you see in that pornographic movie, whatever it is, it stays with you. It’s not like you can go wipe it out of your brain. It’s there. And so these receptors in our brains, they’re magnificent, but you have to use a mature attitude towards these things.
Dr. Leman: Now I know there’s people who love action movies and I think in general, men probably enjoy those more than women. And I have to do a disclaimer here. I’m a chick flick movie guy. I don’t like any form of violence. Now my wife is like Andrea Turpenine. She wouldn’t hurt a fly. Okay. She’s as sweet as they come. You should see the movies she likes to watch. I’m telling you, they’re terrible.
Dr. Leman: But I mean she loves shoot them up this and that, and her TV programs are always bumping off somebody. And she goes back to the back bedroom and props up the pillows and watches them. She knows I’m not going to watch. Okay. So I give you that certain people love things that have some violence in them. Okay. I’m not taking that right away from you. I’m saying if you’re going to do that, do it outside of the view of your children. Okay? It’s as simple as that. If a man watches these things and just like this person that asked the question, a wife’s concerned about it. Hey gentlemen, if your wife’s concerned about it, that ought to be reason for you to do a double take on what you’re doing. Okay. Because where I come from, you ought to to put your wife’s feelings first. That’s what makes a marriage a marriage.
Dr. Leman: And yes, ladies, some are thinking, “Well, should that lady put her husband?” Yes, they should. That’s the catchall. The catch 22. You have to service each other, but you have to come to an agreement that some things you do as a couple or individually are not inherently good for the family or for your children. So you have to safeguard. I always love to remind people the word ‘parent’ comes from the word, Latin word ‘parentis’ which means protector.
Dr. Leman: And you have to shield your kids from some things in life. There’s far too many things on TV that shouldn’t be on TV, and movies have gone way, way, way beyond. And kids are scared, they’re frightened. So use common sense here. So again, Doug, I told you this doesn’t have to be a long one in terms of a podcast. I think the message is clear. The kids should not see violent movies, cartoons, certainly acts from their parents. We see this all the time where parents get into physical hitting each other in the eyes of children and totally destructive for children. So I don’t give much room for doubt on this one. This is something. This is on you, parent. You’re the captain or co-captain of the good ship family. And that’s a call that you’re going to be held accountable for.
Doug: So one of the things you said that you just dropped in there is that husbands, if your wife has got a double-take, that should be a red flag. That you’re going to think about it and deal with it. But the reality is like, let’s be honest, not a whole lot of, maybe there’s more marriages than I think that we actually think that way. So what could a wife, in other words, I don’t think many men are stopping to say, “Oh, my wife is concerned about my video games and my movies. I should do something about that.” Right? How could a wife approach her husband in a way that he might be more receptive to be able to hear that concern from her?
Dr. Leman: I would tell a husband that when I see you going down this path it really turns me off. I’d use the term turns me off. And I would say not only emotionally, but spiritually, and certainly sexually. It doesn’t make me want to even be near you. It’s a real turnoff for me. Now again, you talk about, well most couples don’t do this or don’t do that. Well, most couples who get married today will be divorced in seven years too. So the paradigm of servant leadership in marriage went out the window years ago. And there are still people who do engage in servant leadership in marriage and the great majority of them are people of faith because I think they believe that that’s what God would have them do in marriage. So I don’t know.
Dr. Leman: I think violence is a huge issue. You know, you see all the ‘Be kind’ stickers on cars and on schools. You know, be kind, be kind. But the nature of people is not to be kind. The nature of a middle schooler is not to be kind and thoughtful of other people. I would ask everybody to just think about this. You’re driving today and you come to a red light or a stop sign. Why do you stop? Well it’s the law. I don’t want to get a ticket. I don’t want to get an accident. I get all those things. But how many people thought of, I stopped because I don’t want to hurt someone else? It’s our human nature just to think about ourselves, and I just think this whole area of violence is one that’s a worthy taking a stand for.
Dr. Leman: I wrote a book called Smart Women Know When to Say No. And one of the things I’m real clear on is, hey, if your husband lays a hand on you and he’s physically abusive, you get out of there. And that’s not an if or maybe or I’ll think about it. That’s a get out of there. And is it hard for women to get out of there? Yes it is, for a lot of different reasons., But I think this is one of those areas where there’s some hard lines for families and violence is to be avoided.
Doug: I want to pick up on what you encourage the wife to say to her husband, but before we do that, I want to make sure I get the ebook promotion in. And between now and January 31st of 2020, you can get the book When Your Best Isn’t Good Enough for $1.99. Dr. Leman, what is the book about and why would I get this one?
Dr. Leman: This book is for people who don’t measure up, who have that internal voice that says you could have done better. They struggle with perfectionism. They are great starters and not good finishers.
Dr. Leman: It’s a unique way of looking at the fact that you don’t need any enemies. The enemy is clearly within yourself. So again, an easy read, a profound read. It has its roots in the book, The Birth Order Book. It was a book that was something that was developed after that book became a mega hit because of the response I got from so many people. When I talk briefly about this phenomenon in The Birth Order Book. And by the way, if you’ve never read The Birth Order Book, my goodness, what are you waiting for? It’s a life changer for a lot of people.
Doug: Great. So you get When Your Best Isn’t Good Enough between now and January 31st of 2020 for $1.99. So Dr. Leman, Andrea, I shouldn’t ask it. Dr. Lehman’s not a wife. Of all the people here, I think she qualifies the most. Would you agree?
Dr. Leman: Yes.
Andrea: Yes.
Doug: Okay, Andrea. So your husband is watching violent movies and playing violent games and you can’t get him to listen to you. Would you, could you walk up to him and say, I’d like you to know that that behavior turns me off mentally, spiritually and definitely sexually?
Andrea: I think I would probably not be able to do it at the moment, but it would probably be something that I would have to say like the next day.
Doug: Could you say the next day though?
Andrea: Well, I think it makes a difference that if you’re receptive or not. So, yeah, I think I could say it in the right moment.
Doug: What stops most women from saying it, Dr. Leman?
Dr. Leman: Basic fear. You know, most women now, there are women who are tigers by the tail, but most women have a spirit about them can’t we all get along? They want the oceans of life rather smooth. They acquiesce to too many things. They tend to be the pleaser variety. And that in and of itself keeps them from speaking just the basic truth about life to their husband. They say yes when they mean no. They say yes when they really mean I don’t think so. They’re great team players. They don’t want to rock the relationship. But as we’ve talked about, there’s times you have to rock the relationship.
Andrea: I think it would take a precedence of being able to have these conversations, otherwise it could become volatile. Right. That’s what I imagine.
Doug: So Dr. Leman, would you say the book Smart Women Know When to Say No would help women like Andrea who are peacemakers by and large?
Dr. Leman: Oh yeah. And the nice thing is it’s just a little pocket size book. I think it costs like $6.99 for the book in hand. But it’s a wonderful, encouraging book for women that says you’re worth it. You’re worth sharing how you really feel here. So it’s a positive look at changing situations that women find themselves in, and quite frankly, they don’t know what to do.
Doug: Well, and we don’t mean to belabor the point, but you have said more than once that if there’s a king in the house who is not caring about anybody else’s feelings, when wives stand up to them, either they’ll listen because now finally someone’s standing up or they’ll go crazy. And that’ll tell you this is just a bad guy. You know? And but either way, speaking the truth in love helps everybody get clarity around them really quick. So yeah, for the spouse who is worried about her husband and too much violence in the home Dr. Lehman’s encouragement to you is speak up clearly in truth, in love, and let them know that this turns you off mentally, spiritually, and physically. But don’t keep swallowing your tongue. You’re not going to help you or your kids or them. And my encouragement to you is go buy the book, Smart Women Know When to Say No for your sake if you need that encouragement to know that you’re doing the right thing.
Doug: So well, it was great to be with you and we love editing to your parenting toolbox and we’d love seeing you being able to love those kids more and more. We look forward to the next time we’re with you.
Andrea: Thank you Dr. Leman and have a great week everyone.
Doug: Take care. Bye bye

Jan 7, 2020 • 21min
Our 9-year-old is improving, but requires a lot of attention. – Ask Dr. Leman 138 (Episode 295)
It’s time for another Ask Dr. Leman! What do you do when your kid needs attention for good behavior? Listen in for Dr. Leman’s answer.
**Special Offer– Jan 1 – 13: Intimate Connection ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing
Produced by Unmutable
Transcript
Doug: So you’ve been listening to this podcast and reading Dr. Leman’s books and you’ve applied a couple of the principles here and there and you’re like, “Woo hoo, I’m starting to see some change in my kid. This is great.” But all of a sudden this other problem pops up. What do you do about that? That’s the question Alyssa asked that we get to ask for you today.
Doug: Hi, I’m Doug Terpening.
Andrea: And I’m Andrea.
Doug: And we are so glad that you are with us today. Welcome. If this happens to be your first time, I want to let you know this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or your child, please go seek a local professional for help. Well, Dr. Leman, this is being released on January 7th of 2020. The year 2020. And I think it’s been quite a while since I’ve done this, but I think it really helps people understand the context of… If they’re sitting there scratching the chin like, “What does this guy Leman really know? Like what has he done?” Can you tell us just briefly how many books you’ve written and how many years you did private practice as well?
Dr. Leman: Oh gosh. Well let’s start with, I’m old as dirt, okay? I’m a little like Farmer’s Insurance, I know a few things because I’ve seen a few things. I was in private practice for approximately 40 years, so I saw families, kids, marriages, individuals, did a little bit of everything. Worked in a mental health clinic, taught at the university for 10 years. I was a Dean of Students from 1971 to 1981, handled all the discipline problems of college students. That was a great job by the way. When I took that job, I was 6 feet 11, I’m now a 5′ 10″. Anyway, I’ve written lots of books, 64 of them last count.
Dr. Leman: And my whole thing is to teach people, Doug and Andrea, that these people problems can be worked out. Most of the behavior that kids exhibit in our lives is learned behavior. They’ve learned to be the person they are. The question is, can they unlearn them, those negative behaviors? Can kids change? Can people change? Of course they can, but you don’t always have to run to your neighborhood shrink and see them for two years and pay an awful lot of money for those sessions to have that happen. And that’s why I pride myself on the books that I put out, that they are practical and they give you lots of options as a parent. They just don’t tell you what they do, but they give you options as a parent based upon your situation which way to go.
Doug: Well thank you for that background. And I know I’ve said this before, but also I think the proof is in your own personal family. Andrea and I can tell you from experience their kids want to get together for holidays, their kids want a vacation together. Their kids have succeeded in life. So he just doesn’t talk from principle, but from also actual life.
Dr. Leman: Five kids help that. They help bring a reality to life. They’re not all the same and they’re all going to see life differently and your job, parent, is to get behind those eyes of those kids and try to figure it out.
Doug: Amen. Well to that, we get to hear Alyssa’s question about her nine year old and let’s hear what Alyssa has to ask.
Alyssa: Morning Dr. Kevin Leman. My question for you is my nine year old son, he is an only child. He was born powerful. No, we lost a lot of control and power in our parenting over the years. And when he was eight we decided to get some help and we’ve taken the power and control back in our home. My question for you is when we asked him to do something, he likes to debate it or try to divert and do something quickly before he needs to do what he’s told. So it could be like I’ve asked him to unload the dishwasher and he wants to hug the dog and then hug me and then hug his dad. And then it’s like all these little things. And for us it’s frustrating because we know he’s doing it just to take up a little bit more time before he needs to do we do what he’s told.
Alyssa: My other question is, while he’s doing his task, there’s a lot of attention seeking. He can get very loud and obnoxious unloading the dishwasher or anything that we’ve asked him to do. So my question is how do we correct that? How do we correct a child who is listening, but while they’re doing their chore, they’re still attention seeking or while they’re doing their schoolwork, they’re still seeking attention. So I really appreciate your feedback. I hope you understand what I mean.
Dr. Leman: Yeah, I think I get it. Only children are in a class by themselves. They’re little adults. Certainly by age nine a child is fully personality wise formed. In other words, they have a mantra in life that might say, I only count on life when I win, when I dominate, when I control, when I get other people’s attention, when I put people in my service, when I avoid conflict, I mean there’s hundreds of those, fill in the blank for your kids. So you’ve already diagnosed your child as a powerful child, which I think is true. He’s been a powerful child. Now we’re seeing attention getting on top of that. There’s a little plus on that in that we’re moving from powerful to attention getting, which is at least a positive moment. But when you talk about delaying things and I need an extra hug and I need to do this and that, and he builds in other activities, he’s still showing you that he’s powerful.
Dr. Leman: So it’s a combination. And again, when you go from attention getting to power, you just don’t end up powerful. I know you said something like that, but actually a kid doesn’t just start powerful. They start with attention getting. And when that doesn’t seem to work and they don’t get enough attention, then they become powerful. But a couple things, with kids like this, they’re certainly smart enough to really talk to. They are certainly able to reason. And in quiet moments when your nine year old is not being obnoxious or whatever, you slip him a commercial announcement and you say something like, honey, you know I’ve been thinking about you quite a bit today and it seems like you have an insatiable need to garner our attention. It seems like all the time. In fact, you’re really good at making us pay attention to you. For example, when you get real obnoxious, it’s hard not to pay attention to you.
Dr. Leman: But I want you to look around. Stop right now, just look around the house. Do you see any other children here? There’s not another one in sight, you’re it, so you get all of our attention. And I’m wondering what’s going on in your head that makes you think that you need more attention. Do you think we’re going to run out of hugs and kisses or money or freedoms for you? No, we love you but when you make a fool of yourself, quite frankly, we sort of shake our head and we feel a little sorry for you to tell you the truth because this isn’t going to work in our home and it’s not going to work in life. So both dad and I feel bad about the situation you find yourself in and yet I think we both think are smart enough to figure out a way to handle this differently.
Dr. Leman: Now what we just did there is we’ve taken the tennis ball of life that I like to talk about, we placed it back on his side of the court. We’ve used what we call psychological disclosure to tell a child rather nicely that what you’re doing isn’t working and it’s not good for you. Yeah, it’s irritating to us, but it’s not good for you, but we believe that you’re going to be able to handle that. That’s the first thing I would do with a kid like that. If you want to have some fun with him when he’s tuned in to his favorite TV program or maybe at nine he’s on his computer doing something, you can stick your head five inches from his space so he can’t see the TV or he can’t see the computer and just say, I need your attention. I need your attention now. Really, would you just look at me? I need your attention. I need your attention.
Dr. Leman: And get them to the point where… Now again, this isn’t fun, so you’re not doing this in spite, you’re not trying to create more of a power struggle. We’re just making a point that that’s sort of how it feels sometimes on our end when all we’re trying to do is get out the door and you insist on a petting the dog and making sure her fingernails are okay or toenails are okay or whatever. So what I’m saying is you give the child some knowledge, you back off. You’re expressing faith in the kid that he’s going to be able to do some changing here.
Dr. Leman: It sounds, again, like you’ve had some positive changes in your home, you need to go back and rethink how did that work, why did that work so good? What do we do to create a situation where your child begins to change their behavior? Again, keep in mind, I wrote the book Making Children Mind Without Losing Yours, but you really don’t make a child mind do you? But you set up situations where a kid figures out I’m better off to go with the flow than I am to do what I’m doing. So that’s sort of the short term goal here.
Doug: So here’s my question. If I’m a parent listening to this, I’m like, what? There’s no way I’m walking up to my child and saying, you are making a fool of yourself. That’s degrading. That’s not thoughtful. That’s mean. How would you answer that question, Dr. Leman?
Dr. Leman: I would say parent, then enjoy your powerful child. I mean you need to call a spade a spade. Telling the truth in love is a great principle to live by. Telling the truth with love. You’re not doing it to be mean spirited. You’re just saying, this dog and pony show is getting really old and you’re making a fool of yourself. It’s not being received well by us. We talk about the purpose of nature of behavior. What’s the purpose of nature of a kid being obnoxious, of being silly? I mean, they’re kids, they’re going to do that from time to time, but Alyssa’s called in because it’s getting to be too much.
Dr. Leman: We have people at our school… We give awards to kids for their academic achievement and we’re a classical school, so we give crowns. And of course does everybody get a crown? No, but we’ll have parents who just, they feel so down and so bad because their kid didn’t get a crown. That’s just the way it is. Everybody doesn’t get a raise. Everybody doesn’t get advancement. It’s life. And if a parent’s really concerned about their kid not achieving, I would ask the parent to think about what do I do in my home to enhance the probability of my son or daughter doing better in school? So again, are parents a little over the top today? Yeah, they are. They’re a little too sensitive and I think a few of the bumps and bruises kids get in life gives them psychological muscles to deal with the realities that’s coming down life’s way for them.
Doug: When we come back from this, before I give the eBook promotion, I want to let people know we’re going to come back and I’m going to ask you about the parents be in the induced bumps and bruises. But so I don’t forget the eBook right now for you, which again, I can’t ask you enough to go get this book is The Intimate Connection. You can get it now until January 13th and this is incredible, for only $1.99. So now until January 13th of 2020 wherever eBooks are sold. Dr. Leman, if I’ve never heard anything about The Intimate Connection, what is that book about and how’s it going to help me?
Dr. Leman: Well, if you’re married or in a relationship, it’s going to help you understand the person that you love. It’s going to help you understand yourself. It’s a complete guide, in my opinion, to marriage. About everything that you can think of that invades your marriage is talked about in this book. It gives women, I think, a new perspective of what this man is all about and men who are not usually great communicators are going to learn how to communicate to a woman a little differently and they’re going to understand the need for women to be watered like a plant with words. Men avoid words. Men love grunts and I don’t know and I don’t want to tell you and we’re just not the wordsmiths that women are, but this book will encourage men to use words to learn what true affection is all about.
Dr. Leman: And like I say, I don’t want to use basic as a term because it’s more than basic, but it covers the waterfront in terms of emotions and feelings and where you want to go as a couple. And I think it challenges you to work toward oneness. Because if you get that intimate connection in your marriage, quite frankly you have haven’t made. Nothing will tear you apart if you have the intimate connection, it’s hand in glove. It’s one relating to two, two relating to one. They’re inseparable and it’s for $1.99, my goodness. Download it. Offer to buy one for your adult son or daughter who’s married and you’re suspect that maybe things aren’t everything they should be. That’s a wonderful gift for people to start the year 2020 off in fine fashion.
Doug: So you can get it wherever eBooks are sold between now and January 13th of 2020. So Dr. Leman, there at the last thing you were saying, well, bumps and bruises are a part of life, but nowadays as parents, we’re not supposed to bring the bumps and bruises, that we’re supposed to help sooth the wounds and help them. But yet you’re telling me that. How do I balance those two problems?
Dr. Leman: Right. Let’s start off with most parents stick their head in the sand and make excuses for their kids. I’m not saying to brutalize the kids in any way, I’m telling them to tell them the truth. The kid’s moaning over the fact they got a D in a class. Well, honey, could it have any to do with the fact that you don’t do homework on a regular basis? I mean, duh. Honey, I can’t do your homework for you. These are your grades. You got to get it out of your head that somehow these are my grades. Do I feel bad that you’re not doing well in school? Yeah, I’ll give you that. I feel bad because I’m older and I know that you’re going to pay for this later on in life. This is going to determine what kind of apartment you have, what kind of house you have, what kind of car you drive someday. Education is important and you seem to have a nonchalant attitude about it like everything’s cool. Well, I’m older than you are and you’re going to have to trust me on this one, everything isn’t cool because education is important in life. So you need to man up, pony up, whatever term you want, and you need to attack this.
Dr. Leman: So I’m known for not sugarcoating things. I wouldn’t sugarcoat anything. And if your son or daughter gets an emotional bruise over you being brutally truthful with them, so be it. It’ll heal. It’s not the end of the world. But it sure beats blaming somebody else or sticking your head in the sand and pretending a problem doesn’t exist.
Doug: As our children have launched out, a couple of them have launched out into life, you used the term that we need to, what does it, Andrea, develop their…
Andrea: Psychological muscles.
Doug: Psychological muscles. And I heard you use those terms and I didn’t fully understand it until I saw my children in action out there and how important it is. You’re right that the real world isn’t Pattycakes and rainbows and yeah, we should do a whole episode on preparing your kid’s psychological muscles. But all to say thank you, Dr. Leman for that.
Dr. Leman: Well, think about it this way. When your son or daughter goes off into life, okay? How many of the people that they interact with every day really give a rat’s tail about them? Think about that. How many people that interacts with your kids really care about your son or your daughter? I mean, put a number on it. I’m curious to know what people are thinking as they listen to this podcast. I’m going to say not many. The building blocks that you have given them, and I always say you build a beautiful cathedral one brick at a time, as Doug and Andrea has cemented those bricks into the foundations of who those kids are when somebody becomes snarky or nasty or mean to James or one of the other kids, that work that you poured into them, that foundation is what’s going to keep them strong. Do you see what I’m saying?
Dr. Leman: So we prepare our kid for a world that’s not exactly a nice world. So if you sugarcoat everything in the home and you make excuses for kids and you continually let them off the hook and I mean what are you doing? You’re diminishing the chances of your kid developing the kind of protectance that they need as venture into a world that’s not exactly kind.
Doug: Well, Dr. Leman, as someone who’s got kids that have launched now, I just, if you’re listening to this as a parent, this is why we beg you, especially if you have smaller kids, go get these resources, go read these books. Help yourself get these kids ready. Because man, they go from five to out of your house in a blink of an eye. And I know I sound like an old person now, but I’m like, man, do it now. You’ll never regret it. I’m just telling you one of the greatest joys Andrea and I have because we’ve changed our parenting is our adult children are now coming back and asking us, “Well, what do you think about this?” Not all the time, but on enough that it’s like, Oh my gosh, this old crazy guy was right. He says they would and they do. And we don’t ask questions. We never ask questions now, like you said.
Doug: So for your sake, go get that book Have a New Kid by Friday. Download Intimate Connections for your sake, not for mine, but for yours. Okay, well it was great being with you. Alyssa, thank you for having the guts to leave us that question. It was fabulous. You can go to birthorderguide.com to leave your podcast questions there and we love being with you and we love that you’re taking the time to invest in your kids so that you can have more tools to love those kids better and better.
Andrea: Have a great week.
Doug: Have a super one. Look forward to the next time. Take care. Bye, bye.

Dec 31, 2019 • 29min
How do I stay connected to my spouse in the midst of rearing kids? (Episode 294)
Managing your marriage is just as important as rearing your kids. Learn how to stay connected to your spouse in the thick of parenthood on today’s episode.
**Special Offer– Dec 17 – 31: Birth Order Book ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
**Special Offer– Jan 1 – 13: Intimate Connection ebook for $1.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing
Produced by Unmutable
Transcript
Doug: All right. It’s already been a long day at work. It’s been a long day at the house and I’m just tired, and now I have to go deal with my spouse. I just don’t got no energy for it. In fact, I just don’t even know if I want to deal with it. How much do I actually have to invest in my marriage? And when I’ve got kids, can’t I just pour it all over the kids and then worry about her later? Or him later? That’s the question we get to ask Dr. Leman, how do I stay connected to my spouse in the midst of raising children? Hi, I’m Dr. Penny.
Andrea: And I’m Andrea.
Doug: And we are so happy that you are with us. Truly, I really am happy that you are listening to this for your sake. And to let you know, welcome and I want to let you know this is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or child, please go seek a local professional for help. So Dr. Leman, Andrea and I, we really like each other … Love each other. Sorry, Andrea. I do love you, and-
Andrea: I hope you like me too. Okay.
Doug: And I like you. But life is like crazy nutso, and trying to find time to invest in Andrea is really hard. How do I do this whole thing while I’m raising kids and have a marriage? What’s … help?
Dr. Leman: Well, let’s start with, it’s not easy. When I’m doing marriage seminars … By the way, if you ever want me to come to your church or organization, my preference is to come in and speak on a Sunday morning. Most people figure out this guy’s not as stiff, especially husbands. And they’ll show up and do something Sunday night on marriage, something for stay-at-home mommies and daddies on Monday morning. Sometimes we also do a breakfast on The Way of the Shepherd, my leadership book. And then on Monday night do a session on parenthood. That’s a great way to grow a church. You want to grow a church these days, by the way, folks, you do it through family ministry. But anyway, I forgot what the question was because I went off into seminars. What was your question?
Doug: How do you help us in how much do I really need to invest in my relationship with my wife, my spouse, in the midst of the busyness of being a parent?
Dr. Leman: Yeah, and I was talking about marriage seminars and I talk about the stages that we go through in marriage. The first stage of marriage is expectation stage, and that’s when we’re dating. Okay? This is when we fall into each other’s arms and we talk about the future, and, “I can’t wait for that day that we’re married. We’re just going to be together and it’s going to be just wonderful. We’re going to have this wonderful close, loving relationship. We’re going to have moonlight walks and talks, cuddle up by the fire. Oh, I just can’t wait.” Well, that’s expectation stage. The next stage I call reality, and this is where you find out your wife has morning breath that could kill a cockroach at four and a half feet. And your husband makes noises in bed at night you cannot believe. That’s the reality stage of marriage, and it doesn’t take long to get from expectation to reality. And then the next stage is disillusionment, and that can follow closely as well. “This man isn’t everything I thought he was. There he is watching two ballgames simultaneously munching on a pizza, eating his chicken wings.
Dr. Leman: His hands are a mess.” Yes ladies, this is your gift from God. And before long … And again, keep in mind if you’re married today, your marriage will last about seven years. That’s a good guess. Before long, we’re in the license and we’re in the dissolution of our marriage, and we’re done. So this whole process of staying close is a difficult one because we have careers. And then how about this? The time that little infant, ladies, is laid across your breasts at time of childbirth and there’s that little lip quivering and you’re just looking at this little gracious little gift from God, and you fall in love with that child immediately and that child is so needy. And you’re mama bear and you’re going to meet those needs. And many, many times with the advent of children, that’s when the intimacy and the closeness between a husband and a wife disappear into the back woods. And that’s a dangerous path to take because the longer it exists, the easier it is to stay on that course.
Dr. Leman: I’ve always suggested to young couples in the first two weeks of that baby’s life that you leave the baby home with a babysitter and go out for an evening by yourself to set the paradigm, the model, if you will, that, “We have a connection and a commitment to each other, which precedes our relationship with our kids.” And kids can become too important. So many parents just live their life vicariously through their children and it’s not healthy, it’s not good. You need to take time out for the couple on a daily basis. The husband has to be very much a helper because for the young mom that’s got a baby, she’s exhausted. To put bluntly gentleman, she’s too pooped to whoop, if you know what I mean. So you really have to extend yourself as a man to be the kind of leader you need to be in that home.
Dr. Leman: But as woman, you have to cling to your husband and you have to realize that his needs and your needs are equally as important. You have to work toward meeting those needs in marriage as you begin this new journey with this little life that is going to greatly influence how you live every day of your life.
Doug: So children are coming along and now they’ve taken over, so we’re losing this intimate connection. Is it just that we are physically exhausted? Is that why kids cause us to lose our closeness? Or is there another aspect of adding children to the mix that cause us to lose that?
Dr. Leman: Well, they just take on too much importance. But I think the physical fatigue, especially for a mama bear, that’s real. I mean, parenthood isn’t woman’s work. Parenthood is on both of us. And I’m here to report that today’s daddy’s are so much better than they were even 20 years ago. Dads are very involved, they’re doing a much better job. When that woman who is exhausted is led by her husband’s hand and say, “Honey, come on.” And he walks her in the bedroom and he pulls back the sheets on the bed and literally tucks her in and says, “Honey, you just take a nap. I got it. I got it.” As that woman who’s dozing off for that nap, you know what she’s saying? She saying, “I am so blessed to be married to that man. He understands what I’m up against.” Recently we did a podcast on middle children and we emphasized it was really important for that middle child to understand that people know what they’re up against. Well, so it is for mama bear who just had a child and she needs that helpful husband.
Dr. Leman: But again, the tendency is to get off track and to just focus on the children. So after mama’s nap and after baby is fed and laid down, this is a time we come together and we talk. We talk about life. Yes, we talk about the day, but we talk about feelings. We talk about what’s happening in our lives. And as a reminder, feelings draw you close together, when you share feelings. Judgments do what? They push you apart. I wrote this book, The Intimate Connection, and that’s where we want to strive to be as a couple. We want that intimate connection. But I’m here to tell you, most couples don’t have the intimate connection. They strive for it, but they fall short.
Doug: So Dr. Leman, I got to be honest. Literally, I was making the gaggy emotion here because like feelings? Are you kidding me? After I’ve worked all day, you want me to sit down with my wife and share feelings? That sounds like-
Andrea: Heaven.
Doug: No, there’s another description [crosstalk 00:08:43].
Dr. Leman: Well, I don’t think we have to dramatize it that much, but I think if you have a boss at work who’s just been riding your tail and it’s really irritating, I think it’s important that you share those feelings with your bride, that’s where you enter each other’s worlds. So it’s not so much about, “Let’s hold hands, pray, and sing Michael Row The Boat Ashore.” I’m just talking about every day, sharing what’s going on in your life at the feeling level. And if you felt like your wife dissed you or your husband dissed you, yes, you need some creative ways of bringing that up because sometimes if you bring it up in the wrong way with the wrong attitude, it’s just going to end up with a fight.
Doug: So my feelings don’t have to be all lovey, positive, flowery-
Dr. Leman: No. No. No.
Doug: … they could be genuine feelings.
Dr. Leman: But you need time. How many couples set time for themselves? I mean, the smart man draws the bath for his wife. The smart man doesn’t forget to bring that single rose home, the little unexpected gift, the touch of her hair, the comment that he’s so glad he married her. It’s the words that you use, people, that enrich the marital plan so it blooms and grows and spreads.
Doug: Dr. Leman, I’m hearing you talk about all this and I’m overwhelmed as a male. I got to touch your hair and I got to tell her, “I’m really glad to be married to you.” How the heck am I going to remember all this stuff because that just is honestly so foreign to me to stop-
Dr. Leman: Gosh, you sound like the normal stupid man that I talk to right now.
Doug: I’m just trying to be on it. Right.
Dr. Leman: You’re role playing, you’re doing really good. “You mean I got to touch her hair?”, “Yeah. Yeah. All right, do this.”, “All right, I touched her hair. Now what do I do?” Okay, come on. Get your head out of the sand and realize this is your gift from God. This is your helpmate. This is your oneness. This is the lady you love. This is the lady who pushed that little nine pounder out … Okay. It was six and a half. Nevertheless, she pushed that little guy out, and he’s your pride and joy now. So I’m just saying marriage shouldn’t be a checklist, “I got to do this. I got to do that.” It ought to be a natural outgrowth of the love and the mutual respect that exists between a man and a woman. And a lot of times once we get married, we get in a negative groove. A lot of men, quite frankly, I think take advantage of their wives. They don’t appreciate their great contribution to the family. In my estimation, most women hold families together, not husbands. Am I saying that it should be that way?
Dr. Leman: No, I’m just saying, my opinion is that most women hold families together. They’re so relational. You’re pointing out through your role playing of being the stupid dad here, the stupid husband, that for a lot of us as men, it’s hard to get our arms around some of these touchy feeling kind of things. But I’m just saying, this is just simple courtesy and respect and adoration, and using words to describe how blessed you are to be married to this beautiful woman. And she’s got to feel beautiful because women respond in the intimate side of life only if they feel like they’re really cared for and loved.
Dr. Leman: I mean, I’ve had women tell me … I’ll be real frank now, okay? This is getting a little edgy, but I’ve had women tell me behind closed doors in counseling sessions that, “When my husband just runs his fingers through my hair, that just turns me on, doc. I want to be all over that man.” Well, did that get some man’s attention just now? I bet it did. The little things we do that set up opportunities for not only physical intimacy but emotional intimacy, which is more important.
Doug: So even though you think I’m role playing, actually I’m not. I mean, it’s only in the last couple of years … And we’ve been married 20-
Andrea: Almost 22.
Doug: Almost 22 years. In the first 15, 16, 17 years of my marriage, I didn’t have any of these concepts to be honest. None of them. I brought home money, I was present, I was physically in the room, I didn’t yell too much. And I didn’t understand this.
Dr. Leman: Yeah, but you were King Doug, and there’s a lot of King Doug’s in the world. You come home to your fortress and you hit your chair, and you watch your UCLA Bruins win once in a while.
Doug: Oh, ouch.
Dr. Leman: [crosstalk 00:13:31]. We’re no better over here, believe me. We’re struggling, we don’t know what we’re doing. We just fired our defensive coordinator on top of that. So anyway, we’re getting off track. But I get your point. And a lot of men, that’s how we are. A lot of men see the house, the home, the kids as woman’s work. And women are so relational, they fall into that trap real easy because they love the relationship they have with their kids. But what happens is the relationship with the kids, which they get a lot of emotional strokes from, takes away their need to have emotional strokes come from you as a husband and they’re oblivious to your needs. Your needs are, “I want to feel needed and wanted and fulfilled by this woman.” Well, if she doesn’t feel like she’s really important in your life and she’s treated as a second class citizen, there’s no way that’s going to happen. You’re just lucky you married the gracious woman you did.
Doug: That is true. Thank you Andrea for marrying me. So before we go to break and talk about the book, I forgot to mention this at the beginning. Andrea and I have seen surprisingly a number of marriages around us crumble and the resulting impact on their children are horrific. And so the reason we’re doing this, you’re like, “This is a parenting podcast, we’re talking about marriage.” Man, you want … Dr. Leman says it all the time. You want to make your parenting super hard or screw up your parenting, divorce is the number one way to make that even harder. I don’t think you say number one, but you say it makes it a whole bunch harder. So we want to make sure that the foundation of the family is good.
Doug: And I’m telling you, you are going to get a gift right now and that is that you can get the book from Dr. Leman called Intimate Connections between now and January 13th of 2020 for only $1.99. I shouldn’t start telling you why you should have the book, I’ll let Dr. Leman.
Dr.Leman, why would I care about reading a book about intimate connections? How can reading a book actually helped me out?
Dr. Leman: Well, that $1.99 book that you download can save you hundreds of thousands of dollars. How’s that for an opener? It’s as good a comprehensive marriage book written in plain, simple language that husbands and wives can understand. It goes into the needs of men and women, I highlight how different they are. And again, a husband has to get behind his wife’s eyes and see how she sees life. He has to understand at the feeling level, what it’s like to be a woman. Conversely, we ask women to get behind the eyes of their husband and understand how needy that husband is. He might seem tough, invincible, he might be a former Marine, but trust me, there’s a tender velvet part of him that very much needs the affirmation from you for his basic manliness. He gets energy and fire from the simple words that you give to him, ladies. And so this is a book that if you take the time to read it … And I suggest this is one of those books like the book Sheet Music that I did, which is a book on sexual intimacy in marriage.
Dr. Leman: It’s probably the best selling book on sex written from a Christian perspective. It’s a mega seller, sells like crazy for a reason. Well, The Intimate Connection is equal to that book in terms of its worth and value because it gives you a full look at what marriage is all about to that point where you develop the intimate connection. And the intimate connection would mean if you didn’t see your wife or your husband in six months for whatever reason, maybe one of you was in the armed services, and you came together again after six months, you wouldn’t miss a beat. You would be able to have the same intimate conversations that you had six months prior to it. It means that you’re so into each other that many times there’s no need to even say how you feel because your mate knows that. So it’s a wonderful little book, it’s easy to read, and it’s got Q&A and it’s very practical and useful. So for a buck 99, my goodness, take advan … I hope people are taking advantage of these prices.
Dr. Leman: I mean, last time we offered The Birth Order book at 2.99. I mean, walk in a bookstore, it’s $16. Even online, it’s $11 and some cents. So take advantage of these.
Doug: Yep. You can get The Intimate Connection between now and January 13th of 2020 for a $1.99. And now, a no nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman.
Dr. Leman: “Mommy, I want a puppy. Daddy, can we get a cat?” You know what? The Lemans have had hermit crabs, guinea pigs, turtles and several dogs. Parents, you know the drill here. And some of you, you get so sucked in by your kids. You live in a two bedroom apartment, you both work, you’ve got two kids. Quite frankly, the last thing you need is a pet. But many of you will go ahead and get that pet and you know down the road it’s going to cause problems. Certainly going to cause problems when you want to go away and be at grandma’s for three weeks. Good luck finding a dog sitter, et cetera. Well, not to come across like an old grouch, but you know and I know that if there’s a pet in the family, most of that responsibility for having the pet is falling on who? That’s right, you. Your six year old isn’t taking the cat to get her shots or paying for it, or to get the dog’s nails clipped, or shampooed, or you name it.
Dr. Leman: So this really is a decision that you have to really think through. Now again, we have enjoyed having a dog in our family. We’ve had a dog in our family almost all of my life and I’ve always enjoyed the company of a dog. I would admit to everything I just said that it’s costly, and they can interrupt your lifestyle, and whatever. But is it pet great for a kid? Yes, depending upon where you live, depending upon their age, their responsibility. But don’t get caught up in the emotional moment. If you’re hit with the opportunity, so to speak, to get a pet, give it a week parents and think about it. Think about, “Will this pet really enrich our life right now or is there another time for a pet?” I love going to the zoo, I love seeing all the animals. In fact, recently I was on Fox & Friends, and they had baby Bengal tigers in the studio and a baby leopard. What beautiful creatures. You want to take them home, they’re so gorgeous and beautiful.
Dr. Leman: I love to watch animals, but like what some grandparents have said to me, “I love my grandchildren because I can really enjoy them and then give them back at the end of the evening and go home.” So with that in mind, my advice is simply really think this thing through. Don’t get caught up in emotion in the wailing and crying of your kids because the bottom line is, you, parent more than anybody else in the family is going to be responsible for that pet. You want kids to be responsible? Of course you do, but I’m just telling you, the reality of life is you’re going to do more for that pet than your son or your daughter. Good luck.
Doug: Okay, Dr. Leman, we’ve talked about what the men need to do. Andrea’s question was?
Andrea: Yeah. What about the women? What did we do for our husbands to keep that intimacy alive?
Dr. Leman: Well, men … I want everybody to think about how long does it take to get your wife frisky? Now, we’re talking a little edgy here. I think it was my late friend, Gary Smalley, who first said that women were like Crock-Pots and men were like microwaves. And that’s so true because it takes women a long time in general to really enjoy true, wonderful, fulfilling sex. It doesn’t take a man much time to enjoy fulfilling sex. With that in mind, I wonder how many women realize how much that man needs and wants you in a physical sense? But the words you choose to use, ladies, it’s what drives him, which fulfills him. How many of you would be brave enough today to send an email to your husband at work to say, “Hey, the kids are gone tonight. They’re going to be over at grandma and grandpa’s house. If you hurry home, I have a special treat waiting for you that I know you’re going to love. And by the way, I just bought this new perfume and I wonder if you’re going to enjoy it.”
Dr. Leman: You send that email to your husband. I mean, he’d be salivating like a dog over a steak. Trust me. You get into that man’s head and you tell him how much you need him and want him. I realize that when I say that to some women who just heard that, they go, “Oh no, let’s not go there.” You avoid your husband. You make excuses for your husband. I mean, you might as well just drive him into somebody else’s arms. I’m going to say this as best I can. If you don’t have a love affair with your husband, somebody else will. That’s about a true a statement as there is. If you don’t have a love affair with your husband, somebody else surely will. It’ll happen. So again, the physical side of a man is just so important. If you look at males and females and say, “Who is sex more important to?” You’re probably going to say, “Well, probably a man.” Here’s the interesting side. Who is created by our Creator to enjoy sex more? A man or a woman? I think the answer is clearly a woman.
Dr. Leman: A woman’s response is so profound and huge and strong, and a man’s just not a 10th of that. So isn’t it interesting that the Creator created women in that way? And I think it speaks to us as men that if you look at our sex life as a symphony … keep in mind I wrote a book called Sheet Music. That husband is the conductor of the orchestra, and all these things have to come together for a woman to really experience sexual bliss in a marriage. Not much needs to come together for a man. Quite frankly, time and a place. I mean, most men are happy with that. So this is a struggle for a lot of women. I read my emails, believe me, I know how many of you feel. But are you capable of pulling this off? Yes. Are quickies okay in marriage? They are. Be creative, be inventive. I’ve heard every story there is, there’s not one email you could send me that would shock me at this stage. I’m a little bit like Farmers Insurance. I know a few things because I’ve seen a few things.
Andrea: Can I circle back to something you said at the beginning, and maybe just to bring this back around to closure. You’ve talked about what the men can do for their wives and what the wives can do for their husbands to develop intimacy. You went through the stages at the beginning. We start out with dating, with expectation, and then we move into reality and disillusionment. What about some hope? Is there something in those stages? Is there another stage? Or can we skip disillusionment? And what would you say could be the next stage?
Dr. Leman: Well, actually there is another stage. I invented the word, it’s called gracefullove. It’s one word, gracefullove. We sing that song, especially at Easter time, Because He Lives I Can Face Tomorrow. Well, if you’re a believer in Jesus Christ, and you have the Holy Spirit in your life, I’m just telling you that with God, all things are possible. So many times these aren’t marital problems, these are spiritual problems. These are the fact that we’ve tried to do things on our own without the help of Almighty God. I mean, if you want an exercise to move toward the intimate connection, I would suggest you pray together audibly. It’s a great way to see what’s going on in each other’s heart, but I know from experience of working with couples that very few couples do that. We have our own individual spiritual lives, and God didn’t design us that way. He wants us to be in community not only in a local church or in a small group, but there has to be that oneness right in the home.
Dr. Leman: There’s lots of ways of skinning the proverbial cat, but I think a lot of our marital problems that we see within the Christian Church are really spiritual problems and not marital problems per se.
Doug: Well, it is interesting you say that. I think our marriage turned when I got more aware of my need for God and not myself. And I would say it was surprising how so many things around me went better. That’s a really interesting advice. Well, I think we’re out of time for today. But
Dr. Leman, thank you so much for helping us. Thank you for writing this book. If you are struggling in your marriage in any way, shape, or form, or you feel like your marriage is a five and a six and you want to go to a seven or eight or even a nine, I would highly recommend Intimate Connections. It never hurts to understand your spouse more, it never hurts to actually get behind their eyes as Dr. Leman said to appreciate them. So you can get the book between now and January 13th of 2020 for $1.99. If you’re listening to this podcast after that, you can still go buy the book. It’s still for sale and do it for your sake, for your marriage.
Doug: Well, it was super great to be with you and we do these so that we can help you parent your kids better and better, and a great marriage is a great foundation to do that with so that you have that toolbox to love those kids more and more.
Andrea: Have a great day.
Doug: We look forward to the next time. Take care.
Andrea: Bye-bye.

Dec 24, 2019 • 27min
Get Behind the Eyes of the Middle Child (Episode 293)
Being a middle child isn’t always easy, but you can help them navigate their status through how you parent them. Listen in on today’s episode where Dr. Leman breaks down what it means to be the middle child and gives some pointers on how to help them through life.
**Special Offer– Dec 17 – 31: Birth Order Book ebook for $2.99 at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or wherever you get your ebooks**
Show Sponsored by Revell, a division of Baker Publishing
Produced by Unmutable
Transcript
Doug: So you got three kids. You think you got the first one. Definitely understand the babe, but what about that middle child? How do you understand it? They seem so placid. They seem so wonderful. Well, they are quite wonderful. Since Andrea and I are middle child, we think they’re wonderful, but how do you parent a middle child? That’s the question we get to ask Dr. Leman today. Hi, I’m Doug Terpening.
Andrea: And I’m Andrea.
Doug: And we are so glad that you are with us today. It is great to be with you. We hope that you’re having a fabulous morning or afternoon or evening, wherever you’re listening to this at, and we want to let you know, welcome. This is for your education and entertainment purposes only. If the subject matter raises any concerns for you or a child, please go seek a local professional for help. So, Dr. Leman, I’ve got a middle child and I’m coming to you as the birth order expert and saying, help me figure out how to parent my middle child. What do I need to know as a parent?
Dr. Leman: Well, the very first thing we have to discover, Dr. Terpening, is this child really a middle child? Just because you’re child two with siblings on each end doesn’t automatically make you a middle child. When we describe a middle child a little later you’ll say, “That’s not me. Well, there’s a little bit of that in me, but not much. I think I’m more like a firstborn child.” Well, that’s because the child above you in the birth order is of the opposite sex. You always have to look at sex as a variable when you look at the three, four, five, six little cubs that meander out of the proverbial den, so that’s number one. Your true middle child is the one that’s sandwiched between same-sex kids within five years of each other, so if there’s a three year gap, two year gap, four year gap, 18 month gap, whatever, if they’re close the more competitive those cubs are going to be, and the more pronounced that middle child syndrome, so to speak, will be apparent in that kid’s life. Does that make sense so far?
Andrea: So was that within three years you said? Five years?
Dr. Leman: Five years you sort of draw another family. So I would say four years, three years, two years.
Andrea: Between each child, or from the top one to the third one?
Dr. Leman: No, just between the births of the kids. For example, if the first one is right now you have a 13-year-old, and an 11-year-old, and then a five-year-old, okay? The five-year-old is so far removed from the others that they’re going to function as an only child who has four parents. So then the family becomes just a firstborn and a secondborn, and on top of that if one is a male, and one is a female you could have two firstborn personalities. You could have a firstborn and a baby. So, again, when people look at birth order, and they just look at the rank, ordinal position of the child, you missed the whole point of how we’re trying to help you understand your kids, yourself, and your family. You really have to look at the big picture, and the year spread, and the sex of the kids is certainly two very important variables.
Doug: Another question since we’re on this, if we have two children and they’re only two years apart, is the second one a middle child, or is it a baby, and it’s a boy and a girl?
Dr. Leman: In all probability a youngest, yeah. So, again, there’s an art form to some of this quite frankly to figure it out, but it’s fun figuring out, and once you figure it out it makes some sense. And that’s where I think we can help parents today get behind the eyes of that middle child and see how they see life.
Doug: So what are the struggles that a middle child is having as they’re stuck in the middle?
Dr. Leman: Well, that they never had anything to themselves. They had hand-me-down clothes from their older brother and sister, okay? And they feel squeezed. They’re in a position where if they look up there is the king or queen, the junior monarch of the family, the one who calls the shots, the boss, the jefe. And then they look below them and they got this little pipsqueak who seems to get away with murder, and is great at setting the middle child up as the brunt of whatever. What’s the middle child to do? Throw up their hands and move next door. I mean, it’s tough being a middle child.
Dr. Leman: The good news is I always say the middle child is the peanut butter and jelly of the sandwich because they learn that life is certainly not about them. Now at Leman Academy of Excellence, our schools, we try to teach kids they’re not the center of the universe. Most middle children need no teaching on that. They understand that because they’re surrounded by stars and celebrities in their own little world, in their own family. Even the dog takes priority over the middle child, but the good news is they negotiated for everything they ever had. They never had mom and dad to themself. The family photo album is always interesting because most of their best pictures have their older sister or brother’s armpit around their head. That’s how they grow up.
Dr. Leman: They’re sort of smothered in many ways so they become fiercely loyal to their friends, and they are more likely to identify outside of the family than inside of the family. What does that speak to about where’s the rebel in the family? Lots of times you’ll find the rebel in the number one position because the parents were too authoritarian and the kids had dug in and said, “Hey, I want no part of this,” but more likely than not that middle child who felt like he didn’t quite belong, and I think that’s a message for parents today how do you make your middle child feel important? How do you make them feel like they belong? How do you keep them in the ballgame? Because they are most likely to go outside of the family for friendships and whatever values that you hold dearest, family, they might just run from those so you might have a good protocol position in that middle child of the family.
Dr. Leman: On top of that there’s things in families called alliances where child number one and number three bond together, and child two and number four bond together. Just as an example, what do you do when there’s just three of them? It’s one and three versus who? The middle child, so it’s fun. It’s fun to take a look at this. It explains a lot of our kids’ behavior, but, again, we want to help parents today know, okay, how do I approach this middle child? What are the things that I do that make that kid feel important? Number one is ask for your child’s opinion. So many times the loud mouth firstborn, or the loud mouth baby just sort of drowns out everybody else and there’s the middle child who just sort of rolls with the punches, and that’s a skill they have that will pay off in life that they roll with the punches, but just simple asking them, Honey, what do you think we should do? Where would you like to go? I’d love to know how you feel about this or that. Those are things that draws the middle child into the family.
Andrea: So asking for their opinion because they often don’t get heard.
Dr. Leman: No, they don’t. They get lost.
Andrea: And you said in the last podcast, the middle child gets forgotten, and that’s why we’re doing this one.
Doug: Did you ever feel forgotten, Andrea, growing up? You know, because you had a perfect older sister.
Andrea: Right. Well, I’m trying to figure out my younger sister is a little over five years younger than me.
Doug: Were you a baby?
Andrea: So I don’t know, but Dr. Lehman has told me that for some reason Emily and I reversed roles even though I was second, so I’m listening carefully trying to figure out that.
Dr. Leman: Yeah, Andrea is so cautious and precise. She’s more of a firstborn personality for whatever variables. Now, again, we haven’t talked about the critical-eyed parent, which is another huge variable in birth order, but let’s take three girls in a family. The firstborn has always been expected to really just shine in everything. The problem is that no matter how hard she tried, she never quite got there because her mother or her father would always say, “You could do better.” They were a flaw-picker. Lots of times that will spawn a situation that defeats the firstborn daughter in this family, and then the secondborn daughter, especially, if she’s just a couple of years behind the firstborn will bloom. She’ll leapfrog over her, so to speak. And she wasn’t bombarded with the critical nature of the parents because she was protected by the ice cutter in life, which is the firstborn.
Dr. Leman: So the firstborn took all the bumps and bruises of what went on in the family. Whenever there’s dysfunction in the family, the one that’s closest to it that would be the firstborn pays for it. If there’s a child right behind them within just a couple of years, they tend to profit from that, believe it or not. And they again, leapfrog them and become more like a firstborn personality, more like a leader in the family, if that makes sense.
Doug: That’s great. So the first one was ask for their opinion. What would be another parenting tip when dealing with middle children?
Dr. Leman: Yeah. I think you have to come alongside of your middle child, and you have to verbally identify with where they are in life. Simple things like just observations. You know, Honey, I was driving to the grocery store today. I was thinking about you. There you are. You’re sort of stuck in the middle, aren’t you? You got your big sister who just between you and me acts like she knows everything, and you got your little sister who just between you and me we should get a big can of Raid that would help keep her down in her position. I mean, use some humor if you want, but in other words, you’re getting behind the kid’s eyes, and you’re empathizing with the fact that it’s not easy to be a middle child. Just that recognition that that’s a tough place to be in the family goes a long way.
Dr. Leman: And then you’ve heard me say this before, this is the grand slam of them all when you pull that middle child aside and you say, Honey, can I ask your opinion about something? Now notice you’re asking opinion, which always helps. Is your older sister a little over the top or is it me? She’s a little too much, isn’t she? And right there that middle child is going to light up like a firefly in the early evening. Oh, my goodness, somebody understands what I’m up against. So anything that goes in that direction where you’re empathizing with your son, or your daughter about how tough it is to be in that position goes an awful long way.
Doug: There’s a couple of things that you say every now and then, and then I think, “Wow, this guy is out to lunch.” So this was one of them that you said a long time ago to us. I thought, “Okay, well, he’s been right on a couple of things. I might as well try this one.” So I took my middle child aside and I did exactly what you just said. I followed you almost verbatim and I was shocked at the response of my child because I thought “Am I dissing the other children? Am I slandering them?” But you do say it in such a way that you’re not. They’re like literally at the end of it, you’re not kidding this child said, “Dad, thank you. I thought that nobody knew how hard it was,” or I think he said more like “I didn’t think anybody understood what that older brother is like.” And I was like, “Wow, it works.” So it sounds crazy, but it really does help the children.
Dr. Leman: Yeah, you know, as a youngest child I can tell you that we had an old Chevy. There were three kids in our family and nobody ever wanted to sit in the middle. Now it was just a position of whose bigger. And, of course, the middle child of my family was my brother who was the quarterback of the football team so they both had the outside seats in the backseat of the sedan we had, and I had to sit in the middle. With kids it’s sort of like the associated press power rankings. Number one child has some power. Number two, depending upon their sex and their physical size has some power. The least visible power is the baby of the family, but as we’ve talked about on our podcast, watch out for those babies because they can be manipulative. They find ways to get around the older ones.
Dr. Leman: Again, it’s a challenge I think for parents to sit down and realistically see what games the kids play of one-upsmanship in your family. Again, the birth order theory was not created by Kevin Leman. A lot of people give me credit for that. It was a guy by the name of Alfred Adler who back in Austria he was actually a compadre of Sigmund Freud talked about the striving for superiority in families where these kids strive to be on top, to be the boss, to be the jefe, and that’s really the seedlings of where birth order started, but it’s fun as a parent to try to figure it out because it will help you in giving your kids the vitamin E, the encouragement that they need, and the vitamin N that they sometimes need, which is simply, no, we’re going to not do that. We’re going to go in a different direction.
Doug: I’m going to make sure that I get the eBook promotion in here because it’s totally relevant to what we’re talking about, but when we are done with it, I want to come back to what you just said, like what are the traits that kids have as middle children that we need to give them ease and ends to? But before we go to that, it’s a perfect eBook for what we’re discussing is that you can get The Birth Order Book between now and the end of the year, December 31st of 2019 for $2.99.
Dr. Leman: Oh, wow.
Doug: This is wherever eBooks are sold between now and the end of the year. How, Dr. Lehman, will reading that book help me be a better parent?
Dr. Leman: Wow. It will help you in every possible way. There’s a whole section on how to raise your firstborn, your secondborn, your thirdborn, your only child. If you’re a business person, oh, my goodness, read the book. People always ask me. It’s a tough question because books are like kids, but they say, “Hey, I’ve never read one of your books, but I want to. Where do I start?” And lots of times I just say, “Well, read The Birth Order Book.” Because it’s a marriage book. A lot of good stuff on marriage, good stuff on parenthood in there. The book was revised. The book actually came out way back in the Phil Donahue days. He was way before Oprah Winfrey to show you how long that book has been around. It was first released in 1985, but the book that you buy today has about 70% more material than that original book.
Dr. Leman: So many of you who’ve read The Birth Order Book years ago, I think, The Birth Order Book was totally revised, I’m guessing four to five years ago. So that is the most up-to-date version. It’s well worth to read. 2.99, I mean, just even if you have the book. I would download that sucker and have it so it’s at your fingertips when you’re out for lunch with somebody and you’re talking about something relevant and you can pull out the old Birth Order Book, and share some of the little jewels that are in there. That’s a book for everybody, but if you’re a business person and you manage people, wow, read The Birth Order Book. It will give you great insight. Moms, dads, kids love The Birth Order Book. I can’t tell you how many times I get emails from kids who are doing research papers on birth order and they always come back to me and tell me they got an A because the teacher loved the topic so much. It plays out, but we really haven’t described the stereotypical middle child.
Doug: Well, let me just finish and then that’s what we’ll do in just a moment because I got to wrap up. I got to do one more thing and then let’s do that.
Dr. Leman: All right.
Doug: So I just want to highlight something Dr. Leman said that if you’re not a person who reads whole books this is the book to get because then you just find the section, like if you’re struggling with your middle child, go read the middle child section. You don’t have to read the whole book to understand it, it will help you, but Birth Order Book now to the end of the year $2.99 of 2019 between now and the end of 2019 wherever eBooks are sold. And now a no-nonsense parenting moment with Dr. Kevin Leman.
Dr. Leman: Listen carefully. The man who is saying what he is about to say is really not off his rocker. Just stay with me for a little bit would you? Outside activities for kids are not good. Yes, you heard that right. Outside activities for kids. Now, Leman, Leman, Leman, there you go again. What do you mean outside activities aren’t good for kids? My kid is in Little League. We love Little League. Okay, you got me. I give up. Both hands are skyward. So let’s go with limit outside activities for kids, and here’s the problem, folks. If you have three children and each of them just has one outside activity you’re going to go bonkers trying to keep up with them. You’re going to be shuttling kids from one activity to another and at whose expense? At your expense. And check this out, I think at their expense as well because the more activity and the more people engaged in your kids’ lives when they’re young dilutes the indelible imprint that you get a chance to give to your own kids.
Dr. Leman: I think quite frankly, some of us are addicted to our own adrenaline that our own body produces from rushing from event to event. I marvel at how young families make it today when both of them are working and they have children and you want to put activities on top of that. So again, for you parents who have a little older kids it’s time for discussion around the dinner table to say, hey, you know what? I think we all have a little bit too much on our plate. What can we do this next year, this next semester? Any way you want to say it, this next month to limit things so that we have more time for ourselves, more time for each other, and more time for our family.
Doug: Alrighty, Dr. Leman. So now let’s get to the characteristics of a middle child and what I need to be looking out for to give them vitamin E and vitamin N?
Dr. Leman: Okay. Well, again, keep in mind that your true middle child is sandwiched with the same-sex kids on each side of them. So here’s your stereotypical description of a middle child. Fiercely loyal to their friends, competitive, able to roll with the punches. They hit the curve balls of life pretty good. They’re always getting curve balls thrown their way from either on top from the older sibling, or from the younger sibling. They’re natural mediators and negotiators. They’ve had to negotiate, provide everything they had in life, okay? They tend to be secretive. This is the kid that’s most likely when they’re troubled to go to their bedroom and whimper, or just suffer in silence, so to speak. So sometimes parents you got to find a way of coming around this kid.
Dr. Leman: Sometimes it’s just the physical touch. Sometimes it’s putting your arm around that son or that daughter and say, Honey, you seem a little distant. You seem like something’s bothering you and I don’t want to pry. Oh, that’s a good sentence. I don’t want to pry, but if there’s something that you want to talk about I’m all ears. So in other words, you want to try to keep those communication lanes open for that middle child. When that child speaks their mind, okay? Again, sometimes it might be laced with a little anger. I think it’s important that as a parent you’re talking about vitamin E now that you come around that kid and say, Honey, it’s really good to know that you’re brave enough to share how you really feel. So you want to look for ways as a parent to reinforce anytime that kid is not being secretive, he is being communicative, she is showing a real sense of transparency. You want to jump on that because that’s the kind of stuff you want to encourage.
Dr. Leman: The other stuff that’s negative that the middle child can certainly get into is nobody likes me. They can get the victim mentality. Again, that’s where some vitamin N comes into play because you don’t want to pay that off. Again, kids will use drama. If you have middle aged kids you know the word drama. Middle school kids I should say, sorry. There’s always drama in those years, and as a parent sometimes you have to let that kid just pour out all the drama and then sift through the drama to figure out what really happened and work toward holding kids accountable for the things they say and do in life. That’s very generic, but important for the middle child, too.
Doug: Great. So, Andrea, do you want to go through that list for us again?
Andrea: Okay, so they’re fiercely loyal to their friends. They’re highly competitive. They’re able to roll with the punches, and they can hit the curve ball. They are natural negotiators, but they are secretive and they suffer in silence. Then you gave us two tips. One for vitamin E, one for vitamin N. Whenever they do communicate or begin to be transparent to actually give them lots of vitamin E. Don’t criticize what they have to say. And don’t let them fall into the victim mentality that nobody likes me. That’s a good time for vitamin N.
Dr. Leman: Yeah, and see they can work you with nobody likes you. I think if you pursue that with a son or a daughter, you’re going to hear about how big brother or big sister did this or did that. I think as a parent, you come around and say, well, Honey, let me ask you something. Did you talk to your brother Daniel about that? Well, no. So you tell me what’s the best thing to do here? I guess I should talk to Daniel. Well, are you afraid to talk to Daniel? No, I’m not afraid. Well, go talk with him and tell him that he hurt your feelings. Just tell him the truth. If you need some help with it come by, I’ll be glad to listen in, but, again, I think you sort of point those victims on the road to success by whatever is going on in your life that’s causing you grief right now. It’s not going to get solved unless you talk to the source of the grief.
Andrea: What kind of roles do the middle children end up in generally in life?
Dr. Leman: Well, take the teaching profession. Nurses are firstborn and middleborn in huge numbers. They tend to use their skills of getting along with people. Again, they’ve negotiated for about everything they ever had in life, so they’re middle management people. You’re not going to find your typical middle child in high tech, in precision. Engineering, for example, very few middle children compared to firstborn.
Dr. Leman: I was at a banquet the other night at just one of those chicken dinner fundraisers and just meeting some people and this guy volunteered he was an electrical engineer. I just looked at him and said, “Oh, you’re firstborn son, aren’t you?” He looked at me like I was from the moon, and he said, “Yes,” but he had that look on his face like what does that have to do with anything? Well, I wasn’t going to go into birth order 101 with him, but if you meet an engineer in all probability they’re not the middle child. You meet a pilot, they’re not a middle child, an astronaut, not a middle child, I mean, so middle children tend to go in those avenues where their personality, their friendships pay off. So anything that’s relational you’re going to find a good number of middle children in it that’s their thing.
Doug: Well, we could keep going on middle children and this is why you wrote a book about it so that people can get total details. I want to remind you, Birth Order Book, between now and the end of 2019 for $2.99 wherever you get eBooks, and I’m just telling you get that book and then Have a New Kid by Friday, right? Pair those two together and you’re just going to be like, oh, light bulbs, light bulbs. I get it, I get it, I get it. So for your sake, please do that. Well, it’s great to talk to you and help you add to your parenting toolbox that you could love those kids more and more and more. And we look forward to the next time we get to be with you.
Andrea: And go ask that middle child what they’re thinking about this week.
Doug: Yeah, and see what they say.
Andrea: Yep.
Doug: Alrighty. Have a great one. Take care.
Andrea: Have a good week.
Doug: Bye-bye.