The China-Global South Podcast

The days of China easily handing out billions of dollars to build infrastructure in developing countries around the world are now over. The Chinese can't afford it anymore and many of the borrowing countries just don't have the capacity to take on more debt. But that doesn't mean the Chinese aren't lending anymore. They are. It's just that the projects they finance today are either small -- below $50 million -- or "beautiful" -- support local communities and align with certain Chinese political objectives. Edwin Li, a Beijing-based project finance attorney for the international law firm Dentons, detailed these new lending priorities in a recent article and joins Eric & Cobus to explain why it's critical that borrowing countries clearly understand what China does and doesn't fund. SHOW NOTES: China ODI Project Finance and Law: How to Define “Xiao Er Mei” (Small or Beautiful) in the Belt and Road Initiative by Edwin Li: https://bit.ly/3MTxde2 Boston University Global Development Policy Center: “Small is Beautiful”: A New Era in China’s Overseas Development Finance? by Rebecca Ray: https://bit.ly/3Hnm8iL JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaGSProject| @stadenesque | @eric_olander |@edwinzhiguoli Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject

Indonesia is a pioneer among developing countries for its efforts in moving up the EV battery metal value chain. Whereas most other countries like the DR Congo and Chile export raw commodities that are processed elsewhere, Indonesia now requires all of the nickel mined in the country to be processed locally. But just as in the DRC where the Chinese dominate the cobalt mining sector, a similar dynamic is now playing out in Indonesia. CGSP's Southeast Asia Antonia Timmerman joins Eric & Cobus from Jakarta to talk about China's controversial role in the Indonesian mining business plus how a new Chinese-backed high-speed railway is generating more concern than excitement. SHOW NOTES: Rest of World: The dirty road to clean energy: How China’s electric vehicle boom is ravaging the environment by Antonia Timmerman: https://bit.ly/3OGPP3k The China-Global South Project: Why Many Indonesians Think Jokowi Fumbled Chinese High-Speed Rail Diplomacy, Even As It Nears Completion by Antonia Timmerman: https://bit.ly/45vx5K1 JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaGSProject| @stadenesque | @eric_olander | @timmerman91 Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject

China is one of the very few truly bipartisan issues in Washington today where there is near unanimous consensus that the U.S. must work to counter Beijing's growing influence around the world, especially in developing countries. The problem is that there is much less agreement on what the U.S. should actually do to respond to the China challenge. Dan Runde, a senior vice president at the DC-based think tank Center for Strategic and International Studies, joins Eric & Cobus to discuss his new book that makes the case for why bolstering U.S. soft power is key to persuading Global South countries to favor the United States over China. SHOW NOTES: Amazon: The American Imperative: Reclaiming Global Leadership through Soft Power by Daniel Runde: https://amzn.to/3OiDPVL Amazon: The United States vs. China: The Quest for Global Economic Leadership by C. Fred Bergsten: https://amzn.to/3Mv7ols JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaGSProject| @stadenesque | @eric_olander | @danrunde Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject

In September 2021, President Xi Jinping announced at the United Nations that China would immediately halt all financing of coal power projects abroad as part of Beijing's broader ambition to achieve carbon neutrality by 2060. Since then, the Chinese government has fulfilled that pledge, terminating coal power plant financing deals in Zimbabwe, South Africa, and other countries. But at home, China's policy on coal is very different. In fact, this year alone, the Chinese have approved more than 20gw of new coal power production in just the first three months of the year, more than all of 2021 combined. Christoph Nedopil Wang, an associate professor at Fudan University and one of the world's leading scholars in Chinese green development finance, joins Eric & Cobus to discuss this striking contradiction in Chinese policy on coal and why China does one thing abroad but another at home. JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaGSProject| @stadenesque | @eric_olander | @nedopil Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject

There was a lot of excitement earlier this month at the IMF and World Bank's annual gathering in Washington, D.C. about rumors that the impasse between China and multilateral development banks (MDBs) had been resolved. That stalemate between the Chinese and the MDBs, namely the World Bank, has impeded debt restructuring deals in Sri Lanka, Zambia, and now Ghana among other countries. But now, two weeks later, there's still no official confirmation from either China or the MDBs that they've settled their differences. Kevin Gallagher, director of the Global Development Policy Center at Boston University, attended the Spring Meetings in Washington, D.C., and joins Eric & Cobus to give an update on the current state of debt relief for some of the world's poorest countries. JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaGSProject| @stadenesque | @eric_olander | @kevinpgallagher | @gdp_center Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject YouTube: www.youtube.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject

The U.S. and China are waging a hard-fought battle today for dominance of global technology standards, particularly in emerging sectors like 5G mobile telecommunications. While China's access to markets in advanced economies is increasingly limited, tech companies like Huawei, ZTE, and Bytedance are rapidly expanding in the Global South. But the U.S. Congress is adamant to try and limit China's expansion in developing markets by effectively telling countries if you want to work with the U.S., then you can't use Chinese tech. John Lee is closely following this unfolding competition from Berlin where he's a director at the technology consulting firm East West Futures. John joins Eric & Cobus to discuss what developing countries need to do to avoid becoming collateral damage in the expanding U.S.-China tech duel. JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaGSProject| @stadenesque | @eric_olander | @J_B_C16 Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject

When China announced in March that it had brokered a landmark agreement between Iran and Saudi Arabia to restore diplomatic ties, it took a lot of people by surprise. They just didn't see it coming. But now, a month later, it appears that the deal is solid. Just last week, the foreign ministers from both countries reconvened in Beijing to finalize the pact and begin the process of reconciliation. While all of this is very encouraging, William Figueroa, a postdoctoral research associate at the University of Cambridge Centre for Geopolitics and one of the world's foremost Sino-Iran scholars, joins Eric & Cobus to explain why it's still too early to tell if China's new role as the preferred Mideast mediator will succeed. SHOW NOTES: William Figueroa on Academia.edu: https://bit.ly/3odawsn The Diplomat: China and Iran Since the 25-Year Agreement: The Limits of Cooperation by William Figueroa: https://bit.ly/41mfOjN JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaGSProject| @stadenesque | @eric_olander | @iranchinaguy Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject

Singaporean Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and Malaysian Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim both wrapped up state visits to China last week and their discussions with President Xi Jinping revealed some fascinating linkages between contemporary Chinese foreign policy objectives and Beijing's historical perception of its role as Asia's central power. Antoine Roth, an international relations scholar at Tohoku University in Japan explores those themes in his new book "A Hierarchical Vision of Order: Understanding Chinese Foreign Policy in Asia." He joins Eric & Cobus from Sendai to discuss what lessons can be drawn from China's diplomatic history in Asia that can inform a better understanding of contemporary trends in Chinese foreign policy in other parts of the world. SHOW NOTES: Amazon: A Hierarchical Vision of Order: Understanding Chinese Foreign Policy in Asia by Antoine Roth: https://amzn.to/3m532qN JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaGSProject| @stadenesque | @eric_olander | @antoineroth Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject

Chinese lending to countries in Latin America and the Caribbean is gaining momentum. For the second year in a row, China's two largest policy banks have increased lending to countries in the region, albeit in much smaller amounts than what they did a decade ago. At the same time, there's word that China has spent close to a quarter trillion dollars over the past twenty years to bail out dozens of countries struggling to stay afloat under the weight of such much debt. Margaret Myers, director of the Asia and Latin America program at the Inter-American Dialogue in Washington, D.C., and Rebecca Ray, two of the world's leading experts in Chinese overseas development finance, joins Eric to discuss how these two seemingly divergent trends actually align with one another and why the Americas is emerging as a key market for Chinese creditors. SHOW NOTES: Inter-American Dialogue: At a Crossroads: Chinese Development Finance to Latin America and the Caribbean, 2022 by Margaret Myers and Rebecca Ray: https://bit.ly/3LYKuTK Boston University Global Development Policy Center: “Small is Beautiful”: A New Era in China’s Overseas Development Finance? by Rebecca Ray: https://bit.ly/3Hnm8iL JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaGSProject| @stadenesque | @eric_olander | @myersmargaret | @bubeckyray Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject

Reporting on China is difficult even for the most experienced journalist who's spent years living there and speaks the language. So, it's not surprising that reporters in Africa who've had limited exposure to the country often struggle to cover China-related news. In this special episode produced in conjunction with the Africa-China Reporting Project (ACRP) at Wits University in Johannesburg, Eric is joined by veteran China Watcher, Kaiser Kuo, founder and host of the popular Sinica podcast, to discuss how African journalists can improve their reporting on China. The interview with Kaiser was recorded during a live online workshop hosted by ACRP Project Coordinator Bongiwe Tutu that included questions from African journalists who participated in the event. SHOW NOTES: The China Project: Listen to the Sinica podcast: https://bit.ly/3lsspTl South China Morning Post: How Kaiser Kuo became a leading player in China podcasting and kept on rocking: https://bit.ly/3yXkUGU JOIN THE DISCUSSION: Twitter: @ChinaGSProject| @stadenesque | @eric_olander | @kaiserkuo | @sinicapodcast Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC: Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject