

The Westminster Tradition
The Westminster Tradition
Unpacking lessons for the public service, starting with the Robodebt Royal Commission. In 2019, after three years, Robodebt was found to be unlawful. The Royal Commission process found it was also immoral and wildly inaccurate. Ultimately the Australian Government was forced to pay $1.8bn back to more than 470,000 Australians. In this podcast we dive deep into public policy failures like Robodebt and the British Post Office scandal - how they start, why they're hard to stop, and the public service lessons we shouldn't forget.
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 27, 2024 • 37min
The Essendon Footy Club supplements scandal (part 3): regulation in a changing world
What does the community want more - every last transgressor to be punished, or government to keep out of their business?How can regulators keep pace with changing community expectations about what is ‘appropriate’ - and, indeed, what is a workplace?What is a regulator to do when you’re facing these issues in the full glare of media scrutiny?In this final episode of the Essendon mini-series, we think about what this footy doping scandal can tell us about the challenges of being a modern regulator.Intro grab is then Chief Executive of the AFL, Andrew Demetriou, at the press conference releasing the Australian Crime Commission report on 7 February, 2013.This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

May 13, 2024 • 41min
The Essendon Footy Club supplements scandal (part 2): what’s it like to investigate Australia’s biggest sports codes?
A deep dive into the Essendon Footy Club supplements scandal, exploring ASADA's role, regulatory challenges, and the distinction between anti-doping violations and WHS breaches. The podcast delves into the differences in suspensions between Cronulla and Essendon players, offering insights from investigators and former players.

Apr 28, 2024 • 34min
The Royal Commission we should have? The 2013 Essendon Football Club supplements scandal
Former Minister for Finance and President of Essendon Football Club, Lindsay Tanner, discusses the governance lessons from the 2013 Essendon Football Club supplements scandal. Topics include lack of controls and risk management, dangers of new leaders, and the failures within the organization. The episode highlights the importance of governance in addressing player welfare issues and ethical considerations in player health management.

Apr 15, 2024 • 38min
Sue Vardon AO, inaugural CE of Centrelink: On learning while in the job
Sue Vardon AO, inaugural CE of Centrelink, discusses training Centrelink staff and establishing an in-house RTO. Topics include developing public sector workforce, enhancing public sector education, organizational shift towards learning, essential skills for Centrelink, and workplace communication.

Mar 29, 2024 • 27min
Sue Vardon AO, inaugural CE of Centrelink: On lawyers
Sue Vardon, inaugural CE of Centrelink, discusses the dangers of outsourcing legal considerations to lawyers in senior executive roles. Topics include the historical shift towards legal expertise in decision-making, balancing innovation and protection in government practices, understanding the role of lawyers in compliance, and navigating decision-making in complex environments.

Mar 19, 2024 • 31min
'Do it now, get it right later': payment (in)accuracy in Centrelink - setting the stage for Robodebt
Exploring the challenges of payment accuracy at Centrelink and the trade-offs between fast, cheap, and good. Highlights include the ANAO report, pandemic preparedness, and the need for a holistic definition of efficiency. The podcast delves into the cultural inclination towards 'yes' in the public service and contrasts core business focus in different government sectors.

Mar 4, 2024 • 33min
Mr Bates v Post Office part 4 - the roll out of Horizon
If you knew your IT system was unreliable, wouldn't you keep some manual checks to make sure it doesn't go wrong? Not if you're Post Office, and desperately looking for savings. Especially if you've just lost your biggest revenue source, in the form of the Benefits Agency and the cash in the tills it provides.In the final episode of our first (but not last!) mini-series on the Post Office scandal, we examine how the Post Office 'forgot' what it knew about Horizon's unreliability, and then removed key guard rails that might have prevented false prosecutions.Opening grab from Mr Stevens KC (Counsel Assisting the Inquiry) and Kathryn Parker (former Post Office training), 13 January 2023.Subsequent grab from Mr Beer KC (Counsel Assisting) and Susan Harding (former Post office Business Process Architect), 22 February 2023.For thorough and detailed coverage of the Post Office Scandal, start with the reporting of Nick Wallis, including his BBC podcast, the Great Post Office Trial.This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Feb 19, 2024 • 28min
Mr Bates v Post Office part 3 - accepting a lemon
Despite hundreds of technical issues and continuing delays in meeting quality requirements, in January 2000, Post Office Board accepted the Horizon IT system as its own.In this episode, we discuss how hard it is to say 'stop' in the middle of a game of whack-a-mole of problem fixing, especially when there are institutional incentives to keep going. We also have strong feelings about the idea of 'minimum viable products' where the delivery of social services - and the founding of prosecutions - are concerned.Opening grab from Mr Stevens KC (Counsel Assisting the Inquiry) and Stuart Sweetman (former Managing Director of Post Office Counters Limited), 17 November 2022.Subsequent grab from Mr Jeremy Folkes (former Infrastructure Assurance Team Leader, Horizon Programme, Post Office Counters Ltd) and Mr Beer KC (Counsel Assisting), 17 November 2022.For thorough and detailed coverage of the Post Office Scandal, start with the reporting of Nick Wallis, including his BBC podcast, the Great Post Office Trial.This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Feb 6, 2024 • 32min
Mr Bates v Post Office part 2 - a very poor procurement
Why was the Post Office's Horizon IT system so error ridden in the first place?And is the false conviction of nearly 1000 postmasters really Tony Blair's fault in the end? (Spoiler alert: probably not.)In this episode, Caroline takes us through why Horizon was probably doomed from the start, with Post Office and the Benefits Agency shackled together to buy an ICT system through an elaborately structured, too clever by half Private Finance Initiative (PFI).Among other things, we talk about the role of first ministers and Cabinet in resolving disagreements between portfolios with genuinely different interests; the impossibility of outsourcing political risk; and the challenge of working out the truth when everyone you speak to has an agenda.Harriet Harman, Minister for Social Services, February 1998 letter to PM Blair can be found here.Geoff Mulgan's December 1998 minute to PM Blair can be found here, and his reflections after appearing at the Inquiry can be found on his blog here.Opening grab from Lord Alistair Darling, former Chief Secretary of Treasury, 29 November 2022. Subsequent grab from Sir Geoffrey Mulgan, former civil servant No. 10 Downing St, 2 December 2022.For thorough and detailed coverage of the Post Office Scandal, start with the reporting of Nick Wallis, including his BBC podcast, the Great Post Office Trial.This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Jan 24, 2024 • 38min
Mr Bates v Post Office - shades of Robodebt?
Explore the British Post Office fiasco with Nick Wallis, Adam Grant, and Tony Moore. They discuss false confessions, aggressive litigation, and challenges with redress. They also highlight the power of docudramas and the impact of psychological safety in the workplace. Discover the lack of transparency and accountability in government systems, and the importance of storytelling to generate public attention and consequences. They further delve into the perceptions of welfare recipients and the need for a positive institutional culture.