The Westminster Tradition

Sue Vardon AO, inaugural CE of Centrelink, discusses training Centrelink staff and establishing an in-house RTO. Topics include developing public sector workforce, enhancing public sector education, organizational shift towards learning, essential skills for Centrelink, and workplace communication.

Sue Vardon, inaugural CE of Centrelink, discusses the dangers of outsourcing legal considerations to lawyers in senior executive roles. Topics include the historical shift towards legal expertise in decision-making, balancing innovation and protection in government practices, understanding the role of lawyers in compliance, and navigating decision-making in complex environments.

Exploring the challenges of payment accuracy at Centrelink and the trade-offs between fast, cheap, and good. Highlights include the ANAO report, pandemic preparedness, and the need for a holistic definition of efficiency. The podcast delves into the cultural inclination towards 'yes' in the public service and contrasts core business focus in different government sectors.

If you knew your IT system was unreliable, wouldn't you keep some manual checks to make sure it doesn't go wrong? Not if you're Post Office, and desperately looking for savings. Especially if you've just lost your biggest revenue source, in the form of the Benefits Agency and the cash in the tills it provides.In the final episode of our first (but not last!) mini-series on the Post Office scandal, we examine how the Post Office 'forgot' what it knew about Horizon's unreliability, and then removed key guard rails that might have prevented false prosecutions.Opening grab from Mr Stevens KC (Counsel Assisting the Inquiry) and Kathryn Parker (former Post Office training), 13 January 2023.Subsequent grab from Mr Beer KC (Counsel Assisting) and Susan Harding (former Post office Business Process Architect), 22 February 2023.For thorough and detailed coverage of the Post Office Scandal, start with the reporting of Nick Wallis, including his BBC podcast, the Great Post Office Trial.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Despite hundreds of technical issues and continuing delays in meeting quality requirements, in January 2000, Post Office Board accepted the Horizon IT system as its own.In this episode, we discuss how hard it is to say 'stop' in the middle of a game of whack-a-mole of problem fixing, especially when there are institutional incentives to keep going. We also have strong feelings about the idea of 'minimum viable products' where the delivery of social services - and the founding of prosecutions - are concerned.Opening grab from Mr Stevens KC (Counsel Assisting the Inquiry) and Stuart Sweetman (former Managing Director of Post Office Counters Limited), 17 November 2022.Subsequent grab from Mr Jeremy Folkes (former Infrastructure Assurance Team Leader, Horizon Programme, Post Office Counters Ltd) and Mr Beer KC (Counsel Assisting),  17 November 2022.For thorough and detailed coverage of the Post Office Scandal, start with the reporting of Nick Wallis, including his BBC podcast, the Great Post Office Trial.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Why was the Post Office's Horizon IT system so error ridden in the first place?And is the false conviction of nearly 1000 postmasters really Tony Blair's fault in the end? (Spoiler alert: probably not.)In this episode, Caroline takes us through why Horizon was probably doomed from the start, with Post Office and the Benefits Agency shackled together to buy an ICT system through an elaborately structured, too clever by half Private Finance Initiative (PFI).Among other things, we talk about the role of first ministers and Cabinet in resolving disagreements between portfolios with genuinely different interests; the impossibility of outsourcing political risk; and the challenge of working out the truth when everyone you speak to has an agenda.Harriet Harman, Minister for Social Services, February 1998 letter to PM Blair can be found here.Geoff Mulgan's December 1998 minute to PM Blair can be found here, and his reflections after appearing at the Inquiry can be found on his blog here.Opening grab from Lord Alistair Darling, former Chief Secretary of Treasury, 29 November 2022. Subsequent grab from Sir Geoffrey Mulgan, former civil servant No. 10 Downing St, 2 December 2022.For thorough and detailed coverage of the Post Office Scandal, start with the reporting of Nick Wallis, including his BBC podcast, the Great Post Office Trial.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Explore the British Post Office fiasco with Nick Wallis, Adam Grant, and Tony Moore. They discuss false confessions, aggressive litigation, and challenges with redress. They also highlight the power of docudramas and the impact of psychological safety in the workplace. Discover the lack of transparency and accountability in government systems, and the importance of storytelling to generate public attention and consequences. They further delve into the perceptions of welfare recipients and the need for a positive institutional culture.

In this special holiday bonus, inaugural CE of Centrelink Sue Vardon AO joins Danielle and Caroline to talk through her submission to the Robodebt Royal Commission. Her submission outlines the changes in Centrelink that made Robodebt possible - as well as the things that have stayed the same.She also takes us through her career, from being the only social worker in Wagga Wagga through to leading the establishment of Centrelink.Along the way, she covers the difference between being a 'customer' and a 'recipient', the snap back of bureaucratic and hierarchical cultures, the value of operational experience and much more.Grab at around 1 hr 6 min is Commissioner Holmes and Kathryn Campbell AO CSC and Bar, November 11 2022.This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be.Sue Vardon AO has 23 years of experience as a public sector Chief Executive, including CE of the Office of Public Sector Reform, the Public Service Commissioner and the CE of the Department for Correctional Services in South Australia. She was inaugural CE of Centrelink in 1997, a position she held until 2004.  She finished her full-time public service career as CE of the South Australian Department for Families and Communities. She was the first Telstra Businesswoman of the Year.Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers....While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right.If you want rigorous reporting on Robodebt, we recommend the work of Rick Morton at the Saturday Paper, Chris Knaus and Luke Henriques-Gomes at the Guardian, Ben Eltham at Crikey, Julian Bajkowski at The Mandarin, and of course, the Robodebt Royal Commission itself.Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com.Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!

Taking responsibility and learning from mistakes in the Robodebt scandal, practical steps for creating moral accountability within organizations, the lack of data and accountability in the scandal, the significance of collecting and utilizing data effectively, an email exchange between key figures, the importance of definitive answers and risk evaluation, and building a speak-up culture to handle bad news.

Dr Darren O'Donovan, Senior Lecturer at La Trobe University Law School, reflects on the Robodebt scandal and its impact on victims. Topics include the dangers of generative AI, flaws in the social security system, the role of stereotypes, challenges in explaining averaging, courageous actions of officials, and the fragmentation of knowledge and moral responsibility in institutions.