Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. This is a very meaningful episode to me. It is probably the most significant interview that I've recorded in the last year, and it is with one of my favorite people and one of my favorite scientists in the world: Roland Griffiths, PhD. Roland has recently been diagnosed with what is very likely terminal stage-four cancer. If you've ever found yourself inspired by someone who walks the walk, this episode is worth listening to. In facing mortality and potentially facing death, what Roland has done and is doing, the perspective he is finding, and the tools he is using, are nothing short of awe inspiring. His example is beyond words, and I wanted to share that with all of you. I hope you find it as deeply enriching and valuable as I did. It is a very tender conversation at points, a very funny conversation, and in many ways, a very profound conversation.To learn more about Roland’s very ambitious project to establish a world-class psychedelic research program—in perpetuity—to advance human flourishing and well-being, please visit GriffithsFund.org.Currently, Roland has received pledges totaling about $14M. This means that he is $6M short of the $20M target, sufficient to support the full research program. To donate, please visit GriffithsFund.org and click “Donate.”For more information about establishing a major gift, please contact Mike DeVito, the Senior Associate Director of Development at mdevito1@jhmi.edu or call him at (443) 278-3174. Donors who contribute $1000 or more and who do not choose to remain anonymous will be acknowledged on the website.Here is Roland’s bio:Roland Griffiths, PhD, is a Professor in the Departments of Psychiatry and Neurosciences at Johns Hopkins University, and founding Director of the Johns Hopkins Center on Psychedelic and Consciousness Research. His principal research focus in both clinical and preclinical laboratories has been on the behavioral and subjective effects of mood-altering drugs.His research has been largely supported by grants from the National Institute on Health, and he is author of over 400 scientific publications. He has been a consultant to the National Institutes of Health, the World Health Organization, and numerous pharmaceutical companies. Roland has conducted extensive research with sedative-hypnotics, caffeine, and novel mood-altering drugs.In 1994 Roland started a regular meditation practice that made him curious about certain altered states of consciousness that prompted him in 1999 to initiate the first study in decades to rigorously evaluate the effects of a high dose of a classic psychedelic drug (psilocybin) in healthy psychedelic-naïve participants. Subsequent studies with psilocybin have been conducted in healthy volunteers, in beginning and long-term meditators, and in religious leaders. Therapeutic studies with psilocybin include treatment of psychological distress in cancer patients, cigarette smoking addiction, major depression, anorexia nervosa, and Alzheimer’s Disease. Other studies have examined non-psychedelic drugs that produce altered states of consciousness having similarities to psilocybin. Brain imaging studies have examined pharmacological and neural mechanisms of action of psilocybin.Roland’s research group has also conducted a series of survey studies characterizing various naturally-occurring and psychedelic-occasioned transformative experiences including: mystical-type experiences, psychologically challenging experiences, near-death experiences (NDEs), Entity and God-encounter experiences, and experiences to which reduced anxiety, depression, and substance use disorders are attributed.Please enjoy!*[05:15] Roland’s earliest personal experience with psychedelics.[11:07] Meditation and interest in altered states of consciousness.[18:32] What is phenomenology?[21:44] Why early attempts at meditation failed, and what made Roland revisit the practice.[29:13] Roland’s work with sedative-hypnotics in the late ’70s.[33:02] Connoisseurs of puff topography.[36:36] When Roland realized the voice in his head wasn’t his.[40:26] From meditation to scientific exploration of psychedelics.[50:29] Entheogens vs. psychedelics.[54:57] Roland’s initial reluctance to experiment with psychedelics.[59:36] Sasha Shulgin, PiHKAL, and TiHKAL.[1:02:12] Bill Richards.[1:03:30] Challenges of the psychedelic trial process.[1:12:41] The results of Roland’s first major psychedelic study.[1:16:46] Pre-existing literature on mystical experiences.[1:18:39] Roland’s more recent psychedelic experiences.[1:27:23] Why isn’t Roland devastated by his terminal diagnosis?[1:42:47] Ego dissolution and anxiety reduction.[1:49:44] The real purpose of this conversation.[1:54:50] A rundown of Roland’s diagnosis and how he’s coping with it.[2:03:44] “Every day is Thanksgiving.”[2:05:39] Gratitude meditation, liver embolization, and other mortality navigations.[2:11:36] Satcitananda.[2:13:18] Eliciting 5-MeO “placebo” experiences without psychedelics.[2:29:14] How does Roland relate to death?[2:34:59] How loved ones can be supportive of someone coping with a terminal diagnosis.[2:38:30] Belief changes associated with psychedelic use.[2:40:45] Thoughts from the crossroads of the quantum, the paranormal, and the psychedelic.[2:52:30] Roland’s endowed professorship and its foreseeable areas of research.[3:09:01] David Yaden.[3:18:23] Is there a contingency if Usona ceases to exist?[3:19:42] Roland’s current prognosis.[3:23:38] Roland’s parting thoughts of gratitude and the road ahead.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sam Harris speaks with Roland Griffiths about the current state of psychedelic research, FDA approvals, risks to mental health, use of psychedelics among the well, the relationship between psychedelics and meditation, advice for “bad” trips, microdosing, stage-4 cancer diagnosis, reflections on death, and the importance of endowments in funding psychedelic research.

In this episode, we explore Sam’s conversations about the phenomenon of death. We begin with an introduction from Sam as he urges us to use our awareness of death to become more present in our day-to-day lives. We then hear a conversation between Sam and Frank Ostaseski, founder of the Zen Hospice Project, who shares the valuable lessons he has learned through caring for those in their very last days. Next, we move on to a conversation with Scott Barry Kaufman, who explains what it means to pursue a good life by putting a modern spin on Abraham Maslow’s famous hierarchy of needs. Researcher and professor of neuroscience Roland Griffiths then details his findings on psychedelic therapies. He and Sam discuss the inexplicable powers of psychedelics in easing the anxiety around death, and how these experiences can potentially help us live fuller lives. Shifting perspectives, we move on by hearing NYU professor Scott Galloway explain the social and economic impacts of a society made painfully aware of death by the COVID-19 pandemic. We then listen in to author Oliver Burkeman as he outlines how the knowledge of our mortality can inform practical time management techniques before addressing an age-old question with physicist Geoffrey West: Theoretically, could we engineer humans to live forever? Sam closes this episode with a solo talk, explaining that we needn’t be cynical about the fact that all life must come to an end. Instead, it is the transient nature of life that might be the very thing which makes it beautiful in the first place.   About the Series Filmmaker Jay Shapiro has produced The Essential Sam Harris, a new series of audio documentaries exploring the major topics that Sam has focused on over the course of his career. Each episode weaves together original analysis, critical perspective, and novel thought experiments with some of the most compelling exchanges from the Making Sense archive. Whether you are new to a particular topic, or think you have your mind made up about it, we think you’ll find this series fascinating.  

Sam Harris speaks with Roland Griffiths about the current state of research on psychedelics. They discuss the historical prohibition against their use; the clinical and scientific promise of psilocybin, mescaline, LSD, DMT, MDMA, and other compounds; the risks associated with these drugs; the role of “set and setting”; the differences between psychedelics and drugs of abuse; MDMA and neurotoxicity; experiences of unity, sacredness, love, and truth; the long-term consequences of psychedelic experiences; synthetic vs natural drugs; the prospects of devising new psychedelics; microdosing; research on psilocybin and long-term meditators; the experience of encountering other apparent beings; psilocybin treatment of addiction; and other topics. In his Afterword, Sam discusses his experience on a large dose of psilocybin—his first psychedelic experience in 25 years. If the Making Sense podcast logo in your player is BLACK, you can SUBSCRIBE to gain access to all full-length episodes at samharris.org/subscribe.

Dr. Roland Griffiths, Ph.D., is a professor of neuroscience, psychiatry, and behavioral science and director of the Psychedelic and Consciousness Research at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. He is the author of over 400 scientific research publications and has trained more than 50 postdoctoral research fellows. He has been a consultant to the National Institutes of Health and numerous pharmaceutical companies in the development of new psychotropic drugs.Dr. Roland Griffiths and I discuss the research with John Hopkins University. We spoke about how he got into psychedelics and convinced ethic committees to approve such research, why he chose the scientific path, specifics about his studies with psilocybin, transformations of cancer patients with family members, the impact of psilocybin in existing institutions, the ongoing studies he is performing with long-time meditators and religious leaders, how the integration of psilocybin into society may look and more.Find more information about the center for psychedelic and consciousness research at https://hopkinspsychedelic.org, and read Roland’s publications at https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/publicationsThis episode was recorded on March 2nd, 2021FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE CENTER FOR PSYCHEDELIC AND CONSCIOUSNESS RESEARCH:http://hopkinspsychedelic.orgONGOING STUDIES:Depression Study Websitehttps://hopkinspsychedelic.org/depressionstudyCigarette Smoking-Psilocybin Study Websitehttps://www.quitsmokingbaltimore.org/Alzheimer’s Disease-Psilocybin Study Websitehttps://hopkinspsychedelic.org/alzheimersAnorexia Nervosa-Psilocybin Study Websitehttps://hopkinspsychedelic.org/anorexiaCo-occurring Depression and Alcohol Use Disorderhttps://hopkinspsychedelic.org/depression-alcoholPsychedelic Survey Studieshttps://hopkinspsychedelic.org/index/#researchPUBLISHED STUDIES:All Johns Hopkins Psychedelic Science Publicationshttps://hopkinspsychedelic.org/publications