Sam Harris speaks with Roland Griffiths about the current state of psychedelic research, FDA approvals, risks to mental health, use of psychedelics among the well, the relationship between psychedelics and meditation, advice for “bad” trips, microdosing, stage-4 cancer diagnosis, reflections on death, and the importance of endowments in funding psychedelic research.
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Quick takeaways
Psychedelics show promise in treating anxiety, depression, and PTSD, especially in cancer patients and those with treatment-resistant depression.
Psychedelics can enhance and resonate with meditation experiences, leading to profound and transformative effects.
There is a need for more research to understand the differences among psychedelics and their effects, and to explore the integration of microdosing with meditation.
Deep dives
The impact of psychedelics in the treatment of anxiety and depression
Roland Griffiths, a professor at Johns Hopkins University, discusses the resurgence of scientific interest in psychedelics. He highlights their utility in the treatment of anxiety and depression, particularly in cancer patients and those with treatment-resistant depression and PTSD. The ongoing research aims to advance understanding in well-being, spirituality, and consciousness. Griffiths also explores the timeline for FDA approvals and the risks associated with psychedelics in vulnerable groups. He acknowledges the need for caution and the importance of developing cultural institutions to support responsible use.
The connection between meditation and psychedelics
Griffiths discusses the relationship between meditation and psychedelics and how they can complement each other. He shares his personal experience of starting with meditation before becoming interested in psychedelics. Griffiths believes that both practices involve investigating the nature of mind and consciousness. He explains that psychedelics can enhance and resonate with meditation experiences, leading to profound and transformative effects. He highlights the similarities in neurophysiological changes observed in both practices and suggests that further research could explore the integration of intermittent psychedelic use with meditation.
The implications of microdosing and the need for more research
Griffiths expresses caution about the claims surrounding microdosing and its therapeutic benefits, stating that there is insufficient data to support its clinical use. However, he acknowledges his personal experience with microdosing LSD and the potential for further exploration. He suggests that combining low doses of psychedelics with an established meditation practice could be an interesting area for research. Griffiths emphasizes the need for more studies to understand the differences among various psychedelics and their effects on individuals.
Griffiths' reflections on receiving a stage 4 cancer diagnosis
Griffiths shares his personal journey of being diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and the initial disbelief and confusion he experienced. He discusses the various psychological postures that individuals often take upon receiving a cancer diagnosis, such as fear, denial, anger, or seeking solace in beliefs about the afterlife. Griffiths explains how he shifted towards embracing the reality of the diagnosis, practicing gratitude, and finding joy and wonder in the present moment. He credits his meditation practice and previous experiences with psychedelics for helping him maintain a positive mindset and reframe challenging experiences.
Importance of Awakening to the Mystery of Life
Awakening to the mystery of life and developing an appreciation for our existence is not dependent on having a terminal diagnosis. The speaker shares how meditation and psychedelic experiences have enhanced their awareness of the profound beauty and mystery of being alive. They emphasize the need for individuals to consciously explore and awaken to this perspective, even without a life-altering diagnosis. The speaker believes that in doing so, individuals can experience a jump in appreciation for life's wonders and develop a deeper understanding of the unsolvable mysteries surrounding consciousness.
Creating a Program of Research on Secular Spirituality and Psychedelics
The speaker discusses the creation of an endowment project aimed at supporting research on secular spirituality and psychedelics. They express the importance of empirically studying the transformative potential of psychedelic experiences in relation to well-being. The endowment is intended to establish a professorship dedicated to rigorous empirical investigations of the relationship between psychedelics, spiritual experiences, and well-being. The long-term goal is to secure funding for ongoing research and create a sustainable program that contributes to the understanding of these experiences. The speaker invites support and donations towards this project, which could have a lasting impact on the exploration of consciousness and spirituality.
Sam Harris speaks with Roland Griffiths about psychedelics and mortality. They discuss the current state of psychedelic research, the timeline for FDA approvals, the risks to mental health posed by psychedelics in vulnerable populations, the use of psychedelics among the well, the relationship between psychedelics and meditation, advice for “bad” trips, microdosing, Roland’s stage-4 cancer diagnosis, reflections on death, and other topics.
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Learning how to train your mind is the single greatest investment you can make in life. That’s why Sam Harris created the Waking Up app. From rational mindfulness practice to lessons on some of life’s most important topics, join Sam as he demystifies the practice of meditation and explores the theory behind it.
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