Ivan Illich, a radical public intellectual, critiques modern institutions with deep insights into education, healthcare, and capitalism. Joined by biographer David Cayley, they explore Illich's concept of 'conviviality' and the commodification of care that diminishes personal relationships. They discuss the legacy of Illich's 'learning webs' and how his ideas shape contemporary movements around community and solidarity. Their conversation delves into the transformative power of friendship, humor, and the need for genuine connection in an increasingly divided society.

Toronto-based writer David Cayley discusses philosopher Ivan Illich's critiques of institutions, society, and gender roles. The conversation explores Illich's perspectives on powerlessness, Christianity, spirituality, and societal responses to the pandemic, calling for a reevaluation of societal norms and boundaries.

David Cayley and Dougald Hine discuss the legacy of Ivan Illich, exploring topics such as science, climate change, pandemics, ruins, friendship, the role of scientists, marginalized communities, Jewishness, thinning care, and prayer. They emphasize the relevance of Illich's ideas to our present situation, reflecting on the need to reevaluate assumptions of industrial society and find meaning in the current ruins. The chapter highlights Illich's influence, connections with world leaders, and the lack of implementation by politicians.