Esther Perel & Jack Saul | Relational Healing to Transform Trauma

Sep 9, 2025

Esther Perel, a renowned psychotherapist, and Jack Saul, a psychologist and trauma expert, dive deep into the transformative power of relational healing. They discuss how creativity can help individuals navigate trauma and improve relationships. Highlights include exploring intergenerational trauma, the significance of physical touch, and the healing effects of shared narratives. The conversation emphasizes the importance of compassion and community in overcoming individual and collective suffering, making for an enlightening exchange on healing through connection.

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INSIGHT

Trauma Shapes Relational Expectations

Trauma creates a confirmation bias that recreates expected harm within close relationships.
Therapy often must interrupt relational loops that reinforce vulnerability and mistrust.

ANECDOTE

Grandfather's Letters Revealed Hidden Trauma

Jack Saul discovered his grandfather's pogrom letters and realized he was carrying intergenerational trauma in his art.
Finding those stories gave him emotional context and deepened his work with torture survivors.

INSIGHT

Eroticism As Antidote To Survival Mode

Esther links eroticism to aliveness and survival among Holocaust survivors and their children.
Pleasure, imagination, and vibrancy function as antidotes to death and chronic vigilance.

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This week, we’re revisiting Thomas’ conversation with Esther Perel, a renowned psychotherapist, NYT bestselling author, and host of the podcast “Where Should We Begin?” They’re also joined by her husband, Jack Saul, an artist, author, and psychologist. It’s a deep discussion on working with trauma survivors, the healing power of creativity, and addressing the impacts of intergenerational trauma in therapy.

Esther defines the “erotic” as a feeling of aliveness and vibrancy that transcends the context of romance. She shares how embracing this fundamental part of our humanity helps us survive traumatic circumstances and release the constriction and expectation of harm that often accompanies trauma.

This is a powerful conversation that highlights how individual healing is deeply intertwined with collective healing, moving our understanding of therapeutic experiences beyond the isolated office into a shared space of transformation. It’s one of our favorite conversations that we aired in the early days of Point of Relation, and we’re excited to share it with you.

✨ Click here to watch the video version of this episode on YouTube:

👉 https://youtu.be/L1LaAkZhICw

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👉 https://pointofrelationpodcast.com

✨ Psychotherapist and New York Times bestselling author Esther Perel is recognized as one of today’s most insightful and original voices on modern relationships. Fluent in nine languages, she helms a therapy practice in New York City and serves as an organizational consultant for Fortune 500 companies around the world. Her celebrated TED Talks have garnered more than 40 million views, and her bestselling books, Mating in Captivity and The State of Affairs, are global phenomena translated into more than 30 languages. Esther is also the host of the hit podcast “Where Should We Begin?” which is available on Apple Podcasts.

Connect with Esther here:

👉 https://www.estherperel.com

✨ Jack Saul Ph.D., is the founding director of the International Trauma Studies Program (ITSP), a research and training institute based in New York City. He has served on the faculties of New York University School of Medicine, Department of Psychiatry, the New School for Social Research, Clinical Psychology Program, and Columbia University, Mailman School of Public Health. As a psychologist and family therapist, he has created a number of programs both in NYC and abroad for populations that have endured disaster, war, torture, and political violence. He’s the author of Collective Trauma, Collective Healing, and has helmed a public arts and conversation project entitled "Moral Injuries of War".

Connect with Jack here:

👉 https://www.jacksaul.org

✨ Thomas Hübl, PhD, is a renowned teacher, author, and international facilitator who works within the complexity of systems and cultural change, integrating the core insights of the great wisdom traditions and mysticism with the discoveries of science. Since the early 2000s, he has led large-scale events and courses on the healing of collective trauma.

In addition to Attuned, he is the author of Healing Collective Trauma: A Process for Integrating Our Intergenerational and Cultural Wounds. He has served as an advisor and guest faculty for universities and organizations, as a coach for CEOs and organizational leaders, and is currently a visiting scholar at the Wyss Institute at Harvard University.

✨ Connect with Thomas here:

Website: https://thomashuebl.com/

Facebook: https://facebook.com/Thomas.Huebl.Sangha/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thomashuebl/

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/ThomasHuebl

YouTube: https://youtube.com/@thomashuebl

✨ Order Thomas Hübl’s newest book, “Attuned: Practicing Interdependence to Heal Our Trauma–And Our World,” here:

👉 https://www.attunedbook.com/

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👉 https://pointofrelationpodcast.com

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