The Gray Area with Sean Illing

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What Clarence Thomas really thinks

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Aug 29, 2022

Guest

Corey Robin

Corey Robin, a political science professor and author of 'The Enigma of Clarence Thomas,' delves into the complexities of the Supreme Court Justice's life and ideology. He discusses Thomas's shift from black nationalism to conservatism, revealing how historical movements shaped his views on race and progress. The conversation uncovers Thomas's judicial philosophy, his role in pivotal decisions, and the intersections of his personal beliefs with contemporary Republican ideology, providing a nuanced portrait of a controversial figure.

01:04:49

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ANECDOTE

Accidental Thomas Scholar

Corey Robin initially declined to write about Clarence Thomas.
Researching Thomas, he uncovered an untold story of transformation from Black nationalist to conservative icon.

insights

INSIGHT

Thomas's Black Nationalism

Clarence Thomas's Black nationalism centers on Black self-organization, separate from white America.
He believes this separation is permanent due to irreconcilable differences.

question_answer

ANECDOTE

College Activism

In college, Clarence Thomas was a vocal Black nationalist, even among his peers.
He challenged interracial couples on campus and prioritized Black male honor.

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Clarence Thomas: From Black Nationalism to Conservatism

01:54 • 9min

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Interracial Relationships and Black Masculinity

10:33 • 19min

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The Enduring Influence of a Supreme Court Enigma

29:38 • 5min

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Clarence Thomas and the Evolving Republican Ideology

35:04 • 16min

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Collective Action for Global Ambitious Goals

50:38 • 2min

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The Ideological Journey of Conservatism

In 'Invisible Man,' Ralph Ellison tells the story of a nameless black protagonist who navigates the surreal and often hostile world of 20th-century America. The novel begins with the narrator living in an underground room, reflecting on his life and the various ways he has experienced social invisibility. He recounts his journey from a small Southern town to Harlem, involving experiences with racism, a brutal 'battle royal,' and his involvement with the Brotherhood, a civil rights group. The narrative delves into themes of identity, power, and the struggle for self-definition in a society that refuses to see him. Through his experiences, the narrator grapples with the complexities of being a black man in America, ultimately leading to a profound exploration of invisibility and the search for one's true self.

The Enigma of Clarence Thomas

Corey Robin

American Negro slave revolts

Herbert Aptheker

Herbert Aptheker's 'American Negro Slave Revolts' is a groundbreaking work that provides detailed accounts of approximately 250 slave revolts and conspiracies in the United States. The book challenges the myth of African American docility during slavery, highlighting various forms of resistance and rebellion. Aptheker's research spans from the early European settlements to the Civil War, offering insights into the complex dynamics of slave resistance and its impact on American society.

How to Change

The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be

Katy Milkman

In this ground-breaking book, Katy Milkman reveals a proven path to help readers move from where they are to where they want to be. Drawing on her original research and the work of her world-renowned scientific collaborators, Milkman shares strategic methods for identifying and overcoming common barriers to change, such as impulsivity, procrastination, and forgetfulness. The book offers innovative approaches like 'temptation bundling,' using timely reminders, and creating 'set-it-and-forget-it systems' to make change more achievable. It emphasizes the importance of tailoring solutions to specific roadblocks and using science to stack the deck in favor of successful change.

The rhetoric of reaction

Albert Otto Hirschman

Culture of Narcissism

Christopher Lasch

In 'The Culture of Narcissism', Christopher Lasch presents a psychological and cultural synthesis that examines the normalization of pathological narcissism in 20th-century American culture. Lasch argues that since World War II, America has produced a personality type consistent with clinical definitions of narcissistic personality disorder. He locates symptoms of this disorder in various aspects of American life, including radical political movements, spiritual cults, and the broader cultural shifts of the 1960s and 1970s. The book critiques the erosion of family and community structures, the rise of consumerism, and the impact of technological advancements on social relationships. Lasch's work is a comprehensive diagnosis of American culture, predicting the expansion of narcissistic tendencies into all aspects of American life.

Black reconstruction

W.E.B. Du Bois

Published in 1935, 'Black Reconstruction in America' challenges the dominant views of the time by portraying the Reconstruction period as a critical time of Black advancement and a near-revolution of anti-racism and societal change. Du Bois argues that African Americans were active agents of their emancipation and that the period was a second American revolution aimed at democratizing the South. The book critiques traditional historians' views and highlights the significance of African American agency in building U.S. democracy, despite the ultimate failure of Reconstruction and the rise of Jim Crow laws.

Sean Illing talks with Corey Robin, author of a recent article — as well as a 2019 book — about the life and thought of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. Robin discusses how Thomas, whose concurring opinion in the case that overturned Roe v. Wade garnered recent attention, developed the ideological basis of his extremist judicial philosophy, how his views went from the hard-right fringe to more mainstream over the course of his thirty years on the Supreme Court, and how the failures of the 1960's movements shaped his fundamental pessimism about racial progress in America.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Corey Robin (@CoreyRobin), author; professor of political science, Brooklyn College and CUNY Graduate Center

References:

The Enigma of Clarence Thomas by Corey Robin (Metropolitan; 2019)
"The Self-Fulfilling Prophecies of Clarence Thomas" by Corey Robin (New Yorker; July 9)
Clarence Thomas's opening statement, Anita Hill hearing (C-SPAN; Oct. 11, 1991)
Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison (1952)
Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization (2022); Thomas's concurrence
American Negro Slave Revolts by Herbert Aptheker (1943)
Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution - 1863–1877 by Eric Foner (1988; updated 2014)
The Culture of Narcissism: American Life in An Age of Diminishing Expectations by Christopher Lasch (Norton; 1979)
The Rhetoric of Reaction by Albert O. Hirschman (Harvard; 1991)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
Engineer: Patrick Boyd
Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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