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The Tim Ferriss Show
#689: The Brothers Who Live One Life — The Incredible Adventures of David and Daniil Liberman
Aug 24, 2023
Entrepreneurs and investors David and Daniil Liberman discuss their partnership spanning 16 years, their experience at Snap, grassroots anti-corruption efforts, borrowing resources from IBM, equanimity in the face of political threats, playing the fool for advantage, moving to the US for better opportunities, their unique life as connected brothers, meeting the Dalai Lama, starting a company with Evan, data-driven analysis and goal setting, the teaching and learning of coding, observations on financial crisis and generational wealth disparities, renegotiating contracts based on future success, and investing in a sustainable future.
02:44:50
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Quick takeaways
- Embracing failure and being willing to change direction is crucial for success.
- Understanding the influence of pension funds on the financial and political landscape.
- The relationship between the growing student debt crisis and the bailout of public pension funds.
- Making coding more accessible and enjoyable through interactive learning methods.
- The power of interdisciplinary thinking and promoting a holistic approach to education.
- The need to shift focus from investing in traditional companies to investing in individual income as a solution to economic challenges.
Deep dives
Starting a business in the gaming industry
The Lieberman brothers started their first business as an internet service provider in Russia, which allowed them to provide affordable internet to their community by connecting neighbors. They then transitioned to the gaming industry, focusing on online games. They experienced success and growth, but eventually faced challenges due to the 2008 financial crisis. They had to make the tough decision to close the business, which led them to pivot into the animation industry.
Building an animation studio and political satire show
The Lieberman brothers established an animation studio in Russia and created a political satire show for the largest TV network. They developed innovative production processes that allowed them to produce high-quality animation in a short time frame. However, the show was canceled and financial difficulties arose due to a banking crisis in Cyprus. This setback prompted the brothers to reassess their goals and relocate to Los Angeles, where they focused on developing shows and technology.
Transitioning to Silicon Valley and non-profit transparency
After facing challenges in Hollywood and the animation industry, the brothers decided to move to Silicon Valley. They started a transparent banking platform for non-profits, but they found limited success as the appetite for non-profit transparency was not as strong as they anticipated. This experience led them to realize the larger economic challenges and the need for transparency in various sectors.
Embracing failure and changing direction
The Lieberman brothers adopted a mindset of embracing failure and being willing to change direction when necessary. They recognized that not all ideas will succeed and that it is important to evaluate the growth potential of a project. By analyzing statistics and growth trajectories, they would determine if it was wise to double down or to pivot to a new project. This willingness to adapt and move on has been a key factor in their success.
Observation: The Financial Power of Pension Funds
Through their research, the brothers discovered that pension funds own a massive amount of assets, surpassing the entire publicly traded market. They found this observation intriguing and delved deeper into understanding how pension funds influence the financial and political landscape, leading to decisions that are often not in the best interest of the general population.
Insight: Student Debt and Public Pension Funds
They highlighted the relationship between the growing student debt crisis and the bailout of public pension funds. As pensions faced financial challenges, government subsidies to education decreased, leading to a rise in student debt. They unraveled how protecting pension funds had unintended consequences in other areas, exacerbating the burden of student debt on individuals.
Exciting Idea: Making Coding Accessible and Fun
The brothers are passionate about making coding more accessible and enjoyable for everyone. They created an interactive book that allows learners to start by describing concepts in their own language before translating them into coding languages like Python or C++. This approach aims to make coding feel less intimidating and more like learning a foreign language, allowing more people to explore coding without feeling overwhelmed.
Promoting Interdisciplinary Thinking
The brothers are excited about the power of interdisciplinary thinking and promoting a holistic approach to education. They believe that blending various subjects, like language and coding, leads to a deeper understanding and encourages innovative thinking. They advocate teaching coding by connecting it to everyday language and real-world examples to make it more relatable and engaging.
Shift in Ownership of National Wells
The podcast discusses how the ownership of national wealth has shifted through generations. In the past, boomers owned a significant percentage of national wealth when they were around 30 years old, while millennials owned much less at the same age. With the current trajectory and the impact of the COVID crisis, it is predicted that the next generation after Gen Z will also struggle to accumulate wealth at the same age.
Decrease in Entrepreneurship among Young People
The podcast highlights a decrease in entrepreneurship among young people, particularly those under 30 years old. The share of new businesses created annually by individuals under 30 has declined over the past decade. This shift is fueled by regulations and factors such as student loans, which hinder young individuals from taking risks and starting new businesses. The lack of support and opportunities for young entrepreneurs is leading to a decline in innovation and economic growth.
Proposed Solution: Investing in Individual Income
The podcast proposes a solution to the economic challenges faced by young individuals. The idea is to shift the focus from investing in traditional companies to investing in individual income. By converting individual income into securities, individuals can attract investment and accelerate their growth. This approach aims to provide opportunities for individuals to achieve financial success, uplift the economy, and address issues such as student debt. The podcast calls for educating older generations and investors about this new approach to investing and its potential benefits.
14.
Observations and Ideas: Financial Crisis, Credit Default Swaps, and Pension Funds
7min
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David Liberman and Daniil Liberman (@DaLiberman) are visionary entrepreneurs and investors with a close partnership spanning 16 years. They gained valuable experience at Snap, contributing to projects involving avatars, bitmoji, animation, and product operations. They are currently based in Los Angeles, where their primary focus is on building Product Science, a service dedicated to optimizing mobile apps.
Moreover, the Liberman brothers have established The Libermans Company, referred to as a People Company. Through their commitment to the Founders Pledge, they have allocated all future earnings and economic value for the next three decades to LibermansCo, including founder shares of Product Science and potential returns from future investments.
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[06:59] Childhood.
[09:46] The influence of scientist parents on curious kids.
[12:42] The perils of pursuing anti-corruption innovation in post-Soviet Russia.
[18:09] Building a business with cables and crossbows.
[23:21] Lessons learned by bankrupting a gaming studio.
[29:42] Moscow-style investment recovery.
[31:07] A lucky break in the darkness of debt.
[32:07] Streamlining production through decentralization, parallelization, and a DJ connection.
[35:00] When playing the fools is the smart move.
[41:04] Coming to America.
[44:46] Building momentum with animation in Los Angeles.
[46:19] Divorce lawyer power dynamics.
[47:10] Another unforeseen financial hurdle.
[49:02] To Silicon Valley and nonprofit transparency.
[52:21] How are David and Daniil able to pivot between different ideas so quickly?
[58:12] The formation, advantages, and drawbacks of the Liberman hive mind.
[1:07:18] Separation pros and cons.
[1:08:56] How does external romance fit into this arrangement?
[1:12:12] The Dalai Lama, Jerry Murdock, and Snap.
[1:19:28] Reversing Snapchat's 2018 decline by adapting to data and fixing real problems.
[1:27:40] Applying principles of compound growth to life.
[1:33:23] How working with family has helped with logistics.
[1:37:11] The value of interdisciplinary synthesis.
[1:45:46] How the Libermans might teach people to code.
[1:52:55] A data-driven look at our current financial crisis.
[2:04:21] What's the Liberman solution?
[2:06:46] Incentivizing adoption of such a solution.
[2:10:33] A real-world test.
[2:14:08] Who/what makes for a good investment in this model?
[2:19:35] Do we reduce or elevate the potential for success by minimizing suffering?
[2:27:33] How to invest in people (and why you should).
[2:37:52] Parting thoughts.
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For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.
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Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, Margaret Atwood, Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Dr. Gabor Maté, Anne Lamott, Sarah Silverman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and many more.
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