Interview with Julia Ebner: Extremist Networks & Radicalisation
Oct 16, 2023
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Julia Ebner, author and researcher, discusses factors impacting radicalisation, her experiences as an undercover investigator, and the psychology of conspiracy theories. The hosts also analyze conspiracy theories surrounding COVID vaccines and the Israeli government. They emphasize the rise of extremist networks and the importance of critical thinking to address misinformation.
Radicalization is driven by personal factors like trauma and identity crisis, and immersion in extremist communities can provide a substitute for family and belonging.
Far-right extremism poses a greater threat in terms of terrorism and violence compared to far-left extremism, although reciprocal radicalization between the two can lead to heightened polarization.
It is important to distinguish between different extremist movements and focus on the root causes driving individuals towards radicalization, while emphasizing empathy and understanding without endorsing the ideologies.
Conspiracy myths, technological changes, and the mainstreaming of extremist views through influential figures contribute to the rapid spread of radicalization and the long-term threat to democratic processes and institutions.
Deep dives
The Psychology of Radicalization
Radicalization often stems from personal grievances, identity crises, and a desire for strong group belonging. Common factors include trauma, feelings of loneliness, and a search for a new sense of identity. Immersing oneself in extremist communities can provide a substitute for family and kinship. Violence condoning norms and demonization of outgroups are often present in extremist ideologies. The interplay between far-right and far-left movements can lead to reciprocal radicalization and heightened polarization, as seen in the US. However, it is important to note that far-right extremism poses a greater threat in terms of terrorist attacks and violence compared to far-left extremism.
Challenges in Addressing Extremism
Radical narratives and ideologies are not solely responsible for driving extremism, as personal and psychological factors also play a significant role. Vulnerability and an identity crisis can make individuals more susceptible to radicalization. Empathy and understanding should be emphasized when addressing extremist views, without endorsing or condoning the ideologies themselves. It is crucial to distinguish between different extremist movements and to focus on the root causes driving individuals towards radicalization.
Overlaps and Dynamics with Other Movements
There can be overlaps between extremist movements, such as far-right white nationalist communities and other groups, like conspiracy theorists or misogynist online communities. However, it is important to distinguish the specific ideologies, narratives, and goals of each movement. Radicalization dynamics can also be observed within society at large, where elements of cultishness, in-group/out-group dynamics, and extreme rhetoric exist to varying degrees across different ideologies and communities. While there can be reciprocal radicalization between the far right and far left, it is essential to recognize the differences in their ideologies and the levels of threat posed by each.
Understanding Extremist Individuals
In engaging with extremist individuals, it becomes evident that they have their own stories, struggles, and vulnerabilities. Empathy can be felt for the personal challenges they face, while still condemning the ideologies and violent endorsement that may accompany their beliefs. It is crucial to focus on shared humanity and to explore the psychological purposes served by conspiracy myths and extremist ideologies, in order to effectively address radicalization and offer pathways out of extremist communities.
The Influence of Conspiracy Myths
The podcast explores the impact of conspiracy myths and the potential for individuals to adopt multiple conspiracy beliefs once they believe in one. It emphasizes how doubting science and questioning media reports can lead to a Pandora's box of conspiracy theories.
Mainstreaming Extremist Views
The podcast discusses the increasing visibility and influence of fringe communities and far-right political parties in mainstream politics. It highlights the worrisome trend of anti-minority and populist ideas gaining ground rapidly and the role of influential figures like Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson in normalizing these extremist views.
The Intersection of Technological Changes and Crisis
The podcast explores the intersection of technological changes, such as social media and AI-based technologies, with major crises like the COVID-19 pandemic and economic instability. It suggests that these factors contribute to the rapid spread of conspiracy myths, radicalization, and the mainstreaming of extremist ideologies, posing long-term threats to democratic processes and institutions.
On this week's episode, we have an extended interview with author and researcher, Julia Ebner. Julia is a Senior Resident Research Fellow at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue and has written a series of books exploring the social dynamics of extremist networks, including The Rage: the Vicious Circle of Islamist and Far-Right Extremism, Going Dark: the Secret Social Lives of Extremists, and most recently Going Mainstream: How Extremists Are Taking Over.
Julia also recently completed her DPhil at Oxford's Centre for Studies of Social Cohesion and has been developing novel linguistic analyses to help identify the psychological indicators of violence in extremist material and manifestos. She has also endured publishing some papers with our resident cognitive anthropologist.
In the podcast, we cover a range of topics from the factors impacting radicalisation, Julia's time working for Maajid Nawaz's organisation, the psychology of conspiracy theories, and her experiences as an undercover investigator.
Also on this week's episode, we dive into a recent episode of the DarkHorse to explore the Alex Jones' level conspiracies that Bret and Heather have recently been promoting about the horrific events in Israel. You might imagine it would be difficult to make such a tragic event about COVID dissidents and vaccines but if so you are underestimating the InfoHorse hosts.
For a palette cleanser enjoy an extended review-of-reviews and some marathon shoutouts.