ReThinking Talking people out of hate with Daryl Davis and former neo-Nazi Jeff Schoep
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Nov 18, 2025 
Daryl Davis, a Black jazz musician and activist, and Jeff Schoep, a former neo-Nazi leader, share their riveting stories of transformation. They delve into how curiosity can combat hate, recounting their first encounter that sparked meaningful dialogue. Daryl’s techniques for challenging extremist beliefs include motivational interviewing and finding common human values. They also discuss cognitive dissonance and practical strategies for engaging with hardline extremists, emphasizing the importance of empathy and keeping the door open for change.
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Childhood That Sparked Curiosity
- As a diplomat's child Daryl attended international schools and expected diversity as normal.
- Returning to segregated U.S. schools at age 10 exposed him to racism and sparked lifelong curiosity about why people hate strangers.
The Restaurant Conversation That Began Change
- Jeff met Daryl on camera in 2016 and reacted angrily before calming and conversing.
- Daryl's calm curiosity and personal story cracked Jeff's certainty and started his internal reconsideration.
Human Connection Breaks Dehumanizing Narratives
- Showing personal humanity can crack hardened ideological defenses more than accusing someone of hate.
- Jeff says Daryl's human story opened a door that ideological argument never could.
