People and Projects Podcast: Project Management Podcast

PPP 466 | 12 Tools Every Leader Needs to Navigate Difficult Bosses, with Josefine Campbell

Jun 27, 2025

Josefine Campbell, a leadership coach and author of '12 Tools for Managing a Selfish Leader,' shares valuable insights on navigating toxic workplace dynamics. She offers practical tools like the 'Stress Staircase' for identifying stress in yourself and your team. Josefine emphasizes that while you can't change a selfish boss, you can transform your self-management approach. Learn to recognize manipulative behaviors and reclaim your well-being with techniques like breathing exercises and effective communication strategies.

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ANECDOTE

Transformation Under Selfish Boss

Josefine coached a client named Marie who transformed significantly despite a selfish, unempathic boss.
Their success challenges common psychological assumptions about managing such difficult leaders.

INSIGHT

Defining Selfish Leadership

Being a selfish leader means prioritizing personal interests over the team's or company's good without remorse or empathy.
Ambition or toughness alone don't qualify someone as selfish leaders, many are just focused and assertive.

ADVICE

Recognize Early Stress Signals

Watch for subtle stress signals like disengagement, increased errors, conflicts, or resignations in yourself and your team.
These signs often reveal toxic leadership effects before serious burnout symptoms appear.

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Summary

In this episode, Andy welcomes back leadership coach Josefine Campbell to discuss her newest book, 12 Tools for Managing a Selfish Leader. If you’ve ever had a boss who seemed unpredictable, emotionally draining, or even manipulative, this conversation offers tools and insights that can help.

Josefine shares the inspiration behind the book, which is based on the story of a coaching client who successfully navigated a toxic leadership environment. You’ll learn how to identify the early signals of stress in yourself and your team, apply tools like the Stress Staircase and the Three Relationship Circles, and recognize behaviors like “praise with a twist.” Most importantly, Josefine emphasizes the critical turning point: recognizing that while you can’t change a selfish leader, you can change how you manage yourself to better navigate the relationship.

If you’re looking for insights on how to manage up, preserve your well-being, and lead yourself through challenging leadership dynamics, this episode is for you!

Sound Bites

“To qualify as a selfish leader, the way I use the term: it's someone who puts their own interests before the interests of the common good of the company, of the team, and of the people.”
“Your breath is the only vital response you can control. It's your way back to calm in the moment.”
“Over-responsibility is a shadow trait of high achievers. When you are highly responsible, it has a dark side. It makes it difficult for you to let go.”
“I cannot change him. I can somehow manage him, but it is about how I manage myself to manage him.”
“The turning point comes when you stop trying to change them and start managing yourself.”

Chapters

00:00 Introduction
02:07 Start of Interview
02:20 Why This Book? What Sparked the Idea?
06:00 What Is—and Isn’t—a Selfish Leader?
08:40 Subtle Early Warning Signs of Stress
10:09 The Stress Staircase: What It Is and How to Use It
13:00 From a Hijacked Mental State to Being Ready
16:49 Techniques: Rewriting History and Praise With a Twist
23:35 Over-Responsibility and High Achievers
26:20 The Three Relationship Circles
29:04 Managing Yourself to Manage Them
32:36 Stay or Go? Coaching Through That Crossroads
35:01 End of Interview
35:36 Andy Comments After the Interview
39:03 Outtakes

Learn More

You can learn more about Josefine and her book at josefinecampbell.com/books.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

Episode 395, our first conversation with Josefine about leading through complexity.
Episode 317 with Mary Abbajay about managing up and succeeding with any boss.
Episode 422 with Bruce Tulgan on how to manage your boss.

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Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!

Talent Triangle: Power Skills

Topics: Leadership, Project Management, Managing Up, Emotional Intelligence, Coaching, Stress Management, Toxic Leadership, Conflict Navigation, Workplace Psychology, Self-Leadership, Empathy, Team Dynamics

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Summer Awakening by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license