China and the US act as 'security narcissists' in Asia, creating regional instability.
Europe needs to take Asia more seriously and engage beyond China to have a meaningful role in the region.
Deep dives
Understanding the Definition of Asia
In this podcast episode, host Niko Losinan engages in a conversation with Evan Feigenbaum, vice president of studies at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, to discuss the state of Asia. They begin by exploring the concept of Asia itself, questioning whether it is a continent, a region, or even a relevant term. Evan emphasizes that while the geographic construct of Asia may not be entirely useful, thinking about Asia in a strategic sense is crucial. He highlights how the region is becoming increasingly integrated economically and strategically, with events in different subregions having wider implications for the entire region.
The Collision of Economics and Security
Evan Feigenbaum discusses how economics and security are colliding in the region. He explains that while economic integration and security fragmentation have coexisted to some extent in the past, there is now a growing trend where security tensions are starting to overwhelm the positive economic developments. He points out examples of security suspicions affecting economic relationships, such as China and India, and securitization of the US-China economic relationship. Evan warns that this collision between economics and security can potentially undermine the positive progress made in the region and calls for proactive steps to mitigate security competition and reinforce positive economic developments.
China as a Revisionist Power
Evan Feigenbaum characterizes China as a revisionist power rather than a revolutionary one. He explains that while China seeks to revise certain aspects of the international order, it does not aim to overturn everything and replace existing structures entirely. China has joined major international organizations and has been engaged in setting standards and norms within the current system. Evan also highlights China's active participation in international trade and investment agreements, contrasting it with the revolutionary approach of the past. He emphasizes the need to take China's revisionism seriously and to understand its actions within the context of the existing international order.
Europe's Role in Asia
Evan Feigenbaum discusses Europe's role in Asia, highlighting three challenges that Europe faces. First, he points out that Europe often overlooks the entire region, apart from its focus on China, which limits its engagement with other parts of Asia. Second, he mentions that European thinking on Asia is often influenced by transatlantic consensus on China, which may not fully align with European interests. Lastly, he notes that Europe lacks a security role in the region, necessitating approaches that focus on norm setting, regulatory integration, and technology partnerships. Evan emphasizes the importance of European countries taking Asia more seriously and engaging with the region beyond the lens of China alone.
Evan Feigenbaum, Vice President at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, has a career spanning the highest levels of government, academia, think tanks, and the private sector, covering Central, South, and East Asia. It makes him uniquely qualified to discuss the State of Asia writ large on this final episode of the season.
He talks about how China and the US act as 'security narcissists', creating a danger for the whole region, and how other Asian countries are nervously trying to navigate this predicament. Plus: hear why Even calls India a 'dissatisfied power' and why it's a problem that Europe is not being serious about Asia beyond China.
STATE OF ASIA brings you engaging conversations with leading minds on the issues that shape Asia and affect us all. We'll be back this fall with a new season. Until then, look out for bonus episodes in this feed, featuring content from other Asia Society podcasts and some of the many events we organise at Asia Society Switzerland.
- STATE OF ASIA is a podcast from Asia Society Switzerland. Season 4, episode 6 - Published: July 4, 2023 Host: Nico Luchsinger, Executive Director, Asia Society Switzerland Editor/Producer: Remko Tanis, Programs and Editorial Manager, Asia Society Switzerland
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