How To Think In Systems

85 snips

Jun 10, 2025

Guest

Seth Godin

Guest

Robert E. Siegel

In this discussion, Robert Siegel, Lecturer at Stanford and author of The Systems Leader, shares insights on leadership amid chaos. He highlights how today’s leaders must balance innovation with operational demands. Joining him is Seth Godin, a bestselling author and entrepreneur, who reframes uncertainty as part of modern systems. He emphasizes the importance of adapting to change, targeting smaller markets, and redefining success for resilience. Together, they offer fresh strategies to navigate the complexities of leadership and creativity.

Ask episode

AI Snips

Chapters

Books

Transcript

Episode notes

ANECDOTE

Microsoft Word's Feature Creep

Microsoft Word began as a simple word processor focused on writing and formatting documents digitally.
Over time, feature additions led to complexity that overwhelmed many users, prompting some to seek simpler tools.

INSIGHT

Systems Grow Complex Gradually

Systems we build tend to grow complex as we fix problems without seeing the whole picture.
Not thinking systemically risks solving symptoms but causing deeper dysfunctions elsewhere.

INSIGHT

Leadership Needs Systems Thinking

Leadership today requires a systems mindset to navigate increasing complexity and constant change.
Leaders must understand interconnections inside and outside organizations instead of remaining siloed.

Get the Snipd Podcast app to discover more snips from this episode

Get the app

In this episode, we dive into how complexity creeps into our systems—whether in software, organizations, or personal leadership. We start by looking at the evolution of Microsoft Word as a case study of feature creep and unintended consequences, asking why more options can end up stifling creativity.

We’re joined by Robert Siegel, Stanford lecturer and author of The Systems Leader, who unpacks why today is a uniquely chaotic time for leaders. He explores the cross-pressures leaders face—from balancing execution with innovation, to combining strength with empathy—and what it takes to thrive in turbulent environments.

Later, we revisit a powerful 2017 conversation with Seth Godin, bestselling author and entrepreneur. Seth reframes uncertainty as an inherent feature of modern systems, not a personal failure. He shares his perspective on adapting to continual change, why embracing smaller markets and iterative progress makes us more resilient, and how redefining success helps us stay in the game.

Whether you’re leading a team, navigating constant change, or just trying to keep your work meaningful, this episode will give you fresh strategies for thinking and acting systemically.

Five Key Learnings:

Complexity Creep Is Real: As with Microsoft Word, adding features to solve edge cases often leads to more user frustration and less creative freedom. Simplicity can be a competitive advantage.
Systems Leadership Is Essential: Leaders must operate with a systems mindset, recognizing the interconnectedness inside and outside their organizations rather than staying siloed.
Balancing Dualities: Success today means navigating cross-pressures, such as execution vs. innovation and strength vs. empathy—not just picking one.
Embrace Uncertainty: Uncertainty isn’t going away; learning to see it as a product of changing systems makes it less personal and more navigable.
Iterate and Focus Small: Applying your creative efforts to the smallest viable audience allows for better learning, less risk, and greater long-term impact.

Get full interviews and bonus content for free! Just visit DailyCreativePlus.com.

Mentioned in this episode:

To listen to the full interviews from today's episode, as well as receive bonus content and deep dive insights from the episode, visit DailyCreativePlus.com and join Daily Creative+.

The Brave Habit is available now

My new book will help you make bravery a habit in your life, your leadership, and your work. Discover how to develop the two qualities that lead to brave action: Optimistic Vision and Agency. Buy The Brave Habit wherever books are sold, or learn more at TheBraveHabit.com.