The Psychology Podcast

Frans de Waal || Gender Through the Eyes of a Primatologist

May 19, 2022

Frans de Waal, a Dutch-American primatologist and professor known for his insights into primate behavior, explores the interplay of gender and biology. He discusses how non-binary acceptance exists among great apes, challenging human norms around gender. The conversation reveals the complexities of alpha dynamics and female agency in primate social structures. Additionally, Dr. de Waal delves into the learned nature of gender roles and highlights the importance of empathy and altruism, calling for greater inclusivity and understanding in human society.

01:02:33

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Episode guests

Frans de Waal

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Episode notes

Intro

2min

Gender and Sex Through Primatology

8min

Gender Identity in Primates and Humans

22min

Challenging the Selfish Gene: Altruism in Humans and Primates

4min

Unveiling Female Agency in Primate Sexuality

19min

Maternal Instincts and Empathic Dynamics

4min

Challenging Mind-Body Dualism and Gender Perspectives

3min

Celebrating Diversity and Mutual Respect

3min

Today we welcome Dr. Frans de Waal, a Dutch American biologist and primatologist known for his work on the behavior and social intelligence of primates. He is a professor in Emory University's psychology department and the Director of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center. Chimpanzee Politics, The Age of Empathy, The Bonobo and the Atheist, and Mama's Last Hug are among his most popular books that have been translated in over 20 languages. His latest book is called Different: Gender Through the Eyes of a Primatologist.

In this episode, I talk to Frans de Waal about sex and gender. As a primatologist, he shares his research findings on the biological differences between male and female primates. Despite obvious distinctions between masculine and feminine behavior, great apes have no trouble accepting non-binary individuals—a behavior we humans need to practice more of. Dr. Frans clears up what alpha male really means and debunks the “natural order” of male supremacy. We also touch on the topics of socialization, power, altruism, reproduction, and equality.

Website: www.emory.edu/LIVING_LINKS

Facebook: /franspublic

Topics

03:11 What is a primatologist?

04:15 Biology in the gender debate

08:42 Donna: the non-binary chimpanzee

13:08 Dominance, power, and prestige

17:12 Alpha males and alpha females

20:50 Sex differences in play and aggression

24:45 Gender identity and self socialization

31:30 The Selfish Gene

35:11 The evolution of the clitoris