The Gray Area with Sean Illing Francis Fukuyama’s case against identity politics
Sep 27, 2018
Francis Fukuyama, a Stanford political scientist renowned for his insights on political identity, discusses his views on the complexities of identity politics. He explores how the desire for recognition can fuel political backlash and resentment, highlighting the role of thumos, or the yearning for respect. Fukuyama warns that the retreat into narrow identities undermines democratic action and cohesion. He also delves into the implications of immigration and assimilation in fostering national narratives, ultimately questioning the balance between group recognition and individual rights.
01:32:21
Status Motivates Politics
- Status and recognition often drive political behavior more than material needs.
- Fukuyama links thumos (desire for respect) to modern identity-driven politics that fuel resentment.
Trump As Predicted Threat
- Fukuyama recounts predicting threats to democracy from ambitious individuals in 1991.
- He used Donald Trump as an example of ambition bypassing economic buffers and later entering politics.
Middle-Class Status Loss Spurs Revolt
- Social upheavals often come from the middle class losing status, not the poorest.
- Tocqueville's insight explains many modern populist movements' bases.
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Intro
00:00 • 2min
Fukuyama on Respect, Group vs Individual
01:32 • 1min
Origins of Fukuyama's Thought and Trump Mention
02:41 • 3min
Political Correctness, Status, and the Rise of Backlash
05:50 • 2min
Recognition vs. Economic Needs
07:58 • 4min
Thumos and the Psychology of Dignity
12:04 • 56sec
Why Revolutions Emerge from the Middle Class
13:00 • 3min
Three Components of Modern Identity
16:20 • 6min
Is All Politics Identity Politics?
21:57 • 5min
Broad vs Narrow Identities and Democratic Cohesion
26:30 • 4min
Intersectionality and Multiple Identities
30:46 • 4min
Group Recognition vs Individual Rights
35:11 • 4min
Public Displays, Religious Rhetoric, and Accommodation
39:17 • 8min
Who Shapes Identity Agendas?
47:31 • 2min
Structure vs Agency in Political Change
49:50 • 9min
Democratic Participation and Elite Gatekeeping
58:42 • 3min
Why Identity Claims Can Be Non‑Negotiable
01:01:13 • 5min
Competing National Narratives and Victimization
01:05:49 • 9min
Immigration, Assimilation, and Populist Backlash
01:14:51 • 3min
Why Immigration Compromises Fail
01:18:11 • 10min
Assimilation Realities and American Diversity
01:28:33 • 38sec
Political Decay, Elites, and Patrimonial Drift
01:29:10 • 3min
Recommended Reading on Identity and Voting
01:32:20 • 2min
About Identity: Book Summary and Themes
01:34:26 • 44sec
Outro
01:35:10 • 1min
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The Demand for Dignity and the Politics of Resentment
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Is all politics identity politics? And if so, then what does it mean to condemn identity politics in the first place? That’s the subject of my discussion with Stanford political scientist Francis Fukuyama. In his new book, Identity: The Demand for Dignity and the Politics of Resentment, he builds a theory of what identity means in modern societies and how spiraling demands for recognition are tearing at the fabric of our politics. "The retreat on both sides into ever narrower identities threatens the possibility of deliberation and collective action by the society as a whole," he writes. "Down this road lies, ultimately, state breakdown and failure.” Yikes. Fukuyama’s book revolves around a question I’ve become a bit obsessed by: When do we see political claims as identity politics, and when do we see them as just politics? What’s obscured in the passage from one boundary to another? Whose agendas are served by it? And in a country whose narrative of progress and perfection is inextricably bound up in the success of past moments of identity politics, how did this come to be such a vilified term today? So I asked Fukuyama on the show to discuss it. This is a great conversation with one of the foremost political thinkers of our age. Recommended books: Democracy for Realists: Why Elections Do Not Produce Responsive Government by Christopher Achen and Larry Bartels The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion by Jonathan Haidt
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