Bad Thoughts: When a Preacher and a Shrink Team Up to Heal the Mind and Soul, with Judah Smith and Dr. Les Parrott and

Oct 23, 2025

Join Dr. Les Parrott, a clinical psychologist and bestselling author, along with Judah Smith, a dynamic pastor and communicator. They explore the five toxic thought patterns—guilt, shame, insecurity, entitlement, and unworthiness—and how reframing these can lead to healing. Judah shares personal struggles with his inner critic, and they discuss the church's potential to embody vulnerability akin to AA meetings. Their engaging conversation weaves together spirituality and psychology, shedding light on transforming harmful thoughts into growth.

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ANECDOTE

Preventative Therapy Sparked The Book

Judah sought preventative therapy with Les and Leslie before major problems emerged.
That relationship later birthed their book and long-term coaching dynamic.

INSIGHT

Psychology Complements Theology

Les argues theology operates emptily without psychological understanding.
Integrating theological and psychological knowledge gives fuller help for human suffering.

INSIGHT

Guilt As A Toxic Thought Pattern

The authors identified recurring

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On this week's episode of Typology, I'm joined by two remarkable guests who sit right at the intersection of faith and psychology: Dr. Les Parrott, a clinical psychologist and author, and pastor Judah Smith, who brings a preacher's honesty and a comedian's timing to our conversation.

Together, they've written a new book called Bad Thoughts: A Preacher and a Shrink's Guide to Reclaiming Your Mind and Soul. It's a lively and deeply honest dialogue between theology and therapy—between the pulpit and the couch.

We dive into what Les calls the five "toxic thought patterns" that keep us stuck—guilt, shame, insecurity, entitlement, and unworthiness—and how reframing those internal narratives can lead to genuine healing. Judah opens up with surprising candor about his own inner critic, the pressure of ministry, and why he believes the future of the church might look a lot more like AA than Sunday morning at 10 a.m.

It's part Enneagram session (spoiler: Judah's possibly a Seven), part theology class, and part group therapy—equal parts laughter, humility, and grace. You'll hear Les explain why awareness is curative, Judah describe what it's like to feel "freer in his soul," and me wrestling right alongside them with what it really means to change our minds.

If you've ever wondered how psychology and spirituality can work together to transform our lives—and not against each other—this conversation is for you.

ABOUT OUR GUESTS

Judah Smith is the lead communicator of Churchome, a thriving community with multiple locations and a global app, known for its cultural relevance and deep love for Jesus. He is the New York Times bestselling author of Jesus Is __. Judah and his wife, Chelsea, live in Seattle, Washington.

Dr. Les Parrott is a #1 New York Times bestselling author and psychologist who has been featured on Oprah, CBS This Morning, the Today Show, CNN, and The View, as well as in USA Today and The New York Times. His books, which include Saving Your Marriage Before It Starts and many others, have sold over five million copies. Les and his wife, Leslie, a marriage therapist, are the creators of BetterLove.com, a resource for couples. Les and Leslie live in Seattle, Washington.