139 | Elizabeth Anderson on Equality, Work, and Ideology
Mar 22, 2021
01:19:16
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Discussing the complexities of equality and fairness, philosopher Elizabeth Anderson challenges societal norms. The conversation delves into work ethics, capitalism, and the idea of a leisure society. Exploring ideologies, empathy, distributive justice, and the balance between freedom and equality. Examining the concept of self-employment, labor conditions, modern employers' influence, 'bullshit jobs,' and social responsibility in big tech companies.
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Quick takeaways
Creating open opportunity structures for individuals to develop capabilities is crucial for true equality.
Addressing problematic inequalities at a structural level requires flattening hierarchies of honor and stigma.
The discrepancy between the ideal of self-employment and hierarchical organizational structures illuminates workplace power dynamics.
Deep dives
Critiquing Equality of Opportunity
Equality of opportunity is often hailed as a desirable concept, but the podcast delves into questioning its validity. The discussion challenges the conventional definition, which ties equal opportunity to innate abilities or merits. Instead, the emphasis shifts to creating open opportunity structures that allow individuals to develop capabilities and pursue various pathways. The narrative highlights the complexity of measuring inner potential and the importance of educational environments in fostering growth.
Dimensions of Equality Explored
The podcast explores the multidimensional nature of equality, focusing on relationships of domination, hierarchies of honor and stigma, as well as hierarchies of standing. It discusses the need to flatten these hierarchies and emphasizes the importance of examining and addressing problematic inequalities at a structural level. By proliferating dimensions of esteem and valuing diverse talents and contributions, the narrative underscores the complexity of achieving equality across various societal dimensions.
Shift in Market Ideology and Organizational Dynamics
The discussion traces the evolution of market ideology from the concept of universal self-employment to the realities of modern organizational structures. It contrasts the ideal of individual self-employment based on Adam Smith's vision with the prevalent dynamics of hierarchies in firms. The narrative sheds light on the neglected aspects of workplace power dynamics, where employees often face orders from superiors, highlighting the contrast between the envisioned free market world and the hierarchical structures inherent in organizational environments.
Babel Language Learning App and the Myth of Freedom in Choosing Jobs
Babel, a language learning app, offers practical language lessons and a limited-time deal for listeners. The discussion delves into the myth of workers' freedom to switch jobs. It highlights the challenges faced by restaurant workers who experience high rates of sexual harassment, even when changing workplaces. The conversation emphasizes the limited freedom employees have in modern job markets, where employers wield significant control.
Revisiting the Work Ethic and Exploring Issues of Bullshit Jobs
The podcast delves into the historical context of the work ethic, tracing its roots back to Puritan beliefs. It contrasts views on work as self-discipline and the performance of God's will for societal welfare. The discussion extends to the concept of 'bullshit jobs,' highlighting the prevalence of jobs that lack societal value. It calls for a reassessment of work ethics to ensure meaningful contributions to society and questions the current emphasis on long work hours and productivity.
Imagine two people with exactly the same innate abilities, but one is born into a wealthy family and the other is born into poverty. Or two people born into similar circumstances, but one is paralyzed in a freak accident in childhood while the other grows up in perfect health. Is this fair? We live in a society that values some kind of “equality” — “All men are created equal” — without ever quite specifying what we mean. Elizabeth Anderson is a leading philosopher of equality, and we talk about what really matters about this notion. This leads to down-to-earth issues about employment and the work ethic, and how it all ties into modern capitalism. We end up agreeing that a leisure society would be great, but at the moment there’s plenty of work to be done.
Elizabeth Anderson received a Ph.D. in philosophy from Harvard University. She is currently the Arthur F. Thurnau Professor and John Dewey Distinguished University Professor of Philosophy and Women’s Studies at the University of Michigan. Among her honors are the MacArthur Fellowship, a Guggenheim Fellowship, and membership in the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. She was named by Prospect magazine as one of the top 50 thinkers of the Covid-19 era.