No More Slop: AI That Actually Works for GTM

Jul 17, 2025

In this engaging discussion, Christopher Penn, co-founder and Chief Data Scientist at Trust Insights, shares his insights on cutting through the fluff surrounding AI in marketing. He highlights why much AI content fails and introduces effective prompting frameworks to drive better results. Chris also demonstrates how to transform chaotic data into actionable strategies. Furthermore, he addresses the real challenges facing SaaS and education, emphasizing the need for personal branding as a safety net in an AI-driven world. This conversation is packed with practical wisdom and spicy truths!

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ANECDOTE

Early AI Use in Marketing

Christopher Penn started exploring AI and analytics to solve real marketing problems early on.
He used statistical programming in R to tackle challenges like uplift modeling for campaign impact.

INSIGHT

True Thought Leadership & AI

Thought leadership means having original ideas that change how others lead.
Generative AI amplifies whatever quality the thinker brings, good or bad.

ADVICE

Prompt for Creativity

To get creative AI output, add unusual words to prompts to alter probability and force unique answers.
Effective prompting skills are essential for quality AI-generated content.

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In this high-velocity, truth-telling episode, Erin and Ken sit down with data scientist, author, and newsletter legend Christopher Penn to cut through the noise and the slop around AI and go-to-market.

Chris breaks down how today’s AI isn’t solely about scale or speed it’s about whether your thinking actually changes how people lead. From RAGs and reporting frameworks to the future of SaaS, software, and your own job, this conversation pulls zero punches.

🔹 Why most AI content (and dashboards) still suck
🔹 Frameworks for better prompting (and better results)
🔹 A live demo: turning backlink chaos into a strategy-ready infographic
🔹 What CMOs are really asking about AI (and what they should be)
🔹 The real threat to SaaS, higher ed, and your entry-level bench
🔹 Why personal brand is your last, best insurance policy in an AI world

This episode is full of practical frameworks, spicy truths, and no-BS advice from someone who’s been shipping AI before it was cool. A must-listen for anyone serious about GTM in an AI-saturated market.

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Disclaimer

00:24 Meet Your Hosts: Ken and Erin

00:51 AI in Go-To-Market Strategies

02:11 Creative Uses of AI in Daily Life

03:09 Guest Introduction: Chris Penn

04:33 Chris Penn on Early AI and Analytics

06:59 Thought Leadership in the Age of AI

13:07 Frameworks for Effective AI Utilization

18:56 Data-Driven Marketing with AI

23:17 Gladiator Round: Practical AI Demonstration

25:48 Personal AI Preferences

26:07 Creating a Backlink Infographic

27:59 The Power of Infographics in Marketing

29:25 AI Hype and Misconceptions

31:10 Optimization vs. Transformation with AI

33:21 The Future of SaaS and AI

34:12 Guardrails and Ethics in AI

36:02 Challenging the AI Status Quo

41:03 The Impact of AI on Jobs and Education

47:33 Building Personal Brand and Community

49:40 Concluding Thoughts on AI and the Future

About our Guest:

Christopher S. Penn is a leading expert in the fields of artificial intelligence (AI), marketing, and data science. He is widely recognized for his work in helping businesses understand and leverage data and AI for marketing insights and strategies.

As the co-founder and Chief Data Scientist at Trust Insights, a marketing analytics consulting firm, Penn focuses on applying data science, AI, and machine learning to help companies achieve their marketing goals. His expertise extends to:

Google Analytics Adoption: He has been influential in the widespread use of Google Analytics for marketing.
Data-Driven Marketing and PR: Penn advocates for and implements strategies that are heavily reliant on data for informed decision-making in marketing and public relations.
Modern Email Marketing: He has shaped approaches to effective and data-backed email marketing campaigns.
Marketing Data Science: Penn is a pioneer in the application of data science principles specifically to marketing challenges.
AI/Machine Learning in Marketing: His work began in AI in 2013, well before the mainstream emergence of tools like ChatGPT, giving him a deep understanding of its potential and practical applications in the marketing landscape.

Christopher S. Penn is a prolific author, with over two dozen marketing books to his name, including the bestsellers "AI for Marketers: A Primer and Introduction" and "Leading Innovation." He is also the co-host of the award-winning "Marketing Over Coffee" podcast, where he discusses new and classic marketing topics with his co-host, John J. Wall.

His work has benefited a diverse range of prominent brands such as Cisco Systems, T-Mobile, Citrix Systems, GoDaddy, AAA, McDonald's, and Twitter. He is a multi-time IBM Champion in IBM Data and AI. Penn is also a sought-after international keynote speaker, known for demystifying complex AI concepts and providing actionable insights for marketers.

Resources:

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the FutureCraft podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and GTM. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more.

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft GTM website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2