The Experience IS the Brand | Alder Yarrow, Revisited

Jan 20, 2026

Alder Yarrow, an experience designer and founder of Hydrant, dives deep into why experience shapes brand perception. He shares insights on experience design versus user experience and the importance of considering employees as internal customers. Alder emphasizes the value of in-context studies over surveys and discusses how trauma-aware management can foster trust. Their conversation also highlights the critical role managers play in shaping employee experiences and how understanding the 'say-do gap' can enhance organizational growth.

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INSIGHT

Experience Is The Brand

Alder argues that brand equals the sum total of all experiences a customer has with a company.
Designing experiences, not just narratives, is how you actually create brand.

ANECDOTE

Fixing A Financial-Service Signup Problem

Alder recounts a financial services project where employees didn't sign up or use the service.
Three weeks of customer interviews plus internal review revealed design and process gaps blocking adoption.

ADVICE

Audit Every Touchpoint

Study every touchpoint: call centers, papers, digital interfaces, and internal processes.
Fix gaps between what your company intends and what customers actually experience.

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Experience is brand. The experiences people have with a company shape how they feel, what they trust, and whether they stay. Creating those experiences is not just about interfaces or marketing. It requires rethinking internal processes, digital systems, and the everyday realities of work. Alder Yarrow has spent decades helping organizations understand experience from the inside out, and why lasting growth depends on getting it right. In this revisited episode, Dart and Alder talk about experience as brand and define experience design and experience modeling. They also discuss employees as customers and how companies can understand their specific needs.

Alder Yarrow is an experience designer, advisor, and writer. He has spent over 25 years creating customer experiences for some of the world’s leading brands.

In this episode, Dart and Alder discuss:
- How experience becomes brand over time
- What experience design really means
- What experience modeling is and why it matters
- Why employees should be treated as customers of work
- How companies can better understand employee needs
- Why in-context studies matter more than surveys
- The Manager Work Practice Study
- Grounded theory and its role in research
- Experience design versus user experience
- The Jobs-To-Be-Done theory
- The say do gap
- What changes when you redesign employee experience
- Trauma-aware management
- And other topics…

Alder Yarrow has spent over 25 years helping organizations understand experience from the inside out. He has led brand and experience work for companies including Google, Twitter, Home Depot, and Tesla, and previously founded the experience design firm HYDRANT. He later served as Chief Experience Officer at Cibo and is also the founder and editor of Vinography and the author of The Essence of Wine.

Resources Mentioned:
The Innovator’s Dilemma by Clayton M. Christensen:
https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Dilemma-Technologies-Management-Innovation/dp/1633691780

Alder’s blog, Vinography: https://www.vinography.com/

Connect with Alder Yarrow:
Website: https://www.vinography.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alderyarrow/

Work with Dart:
Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.