Work For Humans

Nubank is the largest digital bank outside of Asia and one of the fastest-growing companies globally, recently surpassing 119 million customers across Brazil, Mexico, and Colombia. Much of that growth has been fueled by an obsessive focus on customer experience. Now, Suzana Kubric and Jessica Matsumoto are bringing that same mindset to employees. In this episode, Dart talks with Suzana and Jessica about what it means to design HR as a product, why Nubank brought in PMs and designers from other disciplines to lead the effort, and how to lead an organization as it goes through this kind of transformation.  Suzana Kubric is Chief People Officer at Nubank, where she’s leading a transformation of HR into a product and design function. She brings a customer-obsessed lens to building employee experience at scale.Jessica Matsumoto is Senior Director of People Experience, Growth, and Culture at Nubank. She co-leads the People & Culture Product team, applying product thinking to reimagine how work is designed.In this episode, Dart, Suzana, and Jessica discuss:- How HR can be reimagined as a product team- Why employee experience needs more than policies and programs- What journey mapping looks like inside a 100-million-customer company- How designers and PMs are reshaping HR’s role and process- What makes employees feel like true customers of work- The risks and rewards of building in the open- Why this shift changes not just what HR does, but what it is- And other topics…Suzana Kubric is Chief People Officer at Nubank, where she is leading a transformation of HR into a product and service design function. She is helping one of the world’s fastest-growing companies redesign work to be as intentional and human-centered as its customer products.Jessica Matsumoto is Senior Director of People Experience, Growth, and Culture at Nubank. She co-leads the People & Culture Product team, applying product thinking and experimentation to the full employee lifecycle.Resources Mentioned:Nubank: https://nubank.com.brConnect with Suzana:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzana-kubric-8948b57/Connect with Jessica:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-matsumoto-5a836620/Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

If work is a product, and employees are customers of that product, then every company is a multi-sided business, one that must serve both consumers and workers. According to platform economist Andrei Hagiu, how companies design that experience, how they structure control, pricing, and participation, matters more than we realize. He has spent his career studying the world’s most influential platforms, from Uber and Airbnb to Apple and Amazon. In this episode, Dart and Andrei explore what platform strategy can teach us about modern work design, why the “employee vs. contractor” debate is outdated, when it is efficient to give employees more control, and what “platform governance” means inside a company.Andrei Hagiu is a professor at Boston University’s Questrom School of Business and a leading expert on multi-sided platforms. His research focuses on the strategic decisions that shape platform businesses, including pricing, control, and design.In this episode, Dart and Andrei discuss:- What Uber, Airbnb, and Upwork get right—and where they fail workers- The difference between a multi-sided business and a true platform- Why “employee vs. contractor” is a false dichotomy- How outdated laws are holding back the future of work- When giving workers more control is smart—and when it’s not- What a Mexican cockfight reveals about platform pricing- How employers can learn from platforms to design better work- And other topics…Andrei Hagiu is a professor of Information Systems at Boston University’s Questrom School of Business and one of the world’s leading experts on multi-sided platforms. His research explores how platforms like Uber, Airbnb, and Apple make strategic decisions about pricing, control, and governance—and what those decisions mean for users, workers, and markets. Prior to BU, Andrei taught at MIT Sloan and Harvard Business School. He advises global companies on platform strategy and is the co-author of several foundational papers on platform economics. His work helps businesses, from tech startups to established firms, navigate the complex dynamics of serving multiple stakeholders at once.Resources Mentioned:Andrei Hagiu’s website: https://andreihagiu.comConnect with Andrei:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrei-hagiu-0646751/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

At its best, work is co-created. It’s not something companies hand out—it’s something employees help build by showing up fully and taking risks. But that kind of courage requires something we don’t talk about enough: audacity. Anne Marie Anderson has built her career on it. She’s worked in 82 countries, broken ground as one of ESPN’s first female sideline reporters, and navigated some of the most high-stakes environments in sports broadcasting. For Anne, audacity isn’t about fearlessness—it’s about dismantling doubt, trusting your voice, and building the kind of support system that helps you leap anyway. In this episode, Anne and Dart talk about what makes someone bold enough to raise their hand, speak up, or swing big, even when failure is possible. They explore the four barriers to audacity, the difference between recklessness and worth-it risk, and how to build the kind of support system that helps people take meaningful leaps at work.Anne Marie Anderson is a keynote speaker, leadership coach, and former sports broadcaster who has worked with ESPN, CBS, and NBC. She’s the author of Cultivating Audacity, and helps individuals and teams unlock courageous performance through mindset, resilience, and presence.In this episode, Dart and Anne discuss:- The four barriers that hold people back from bold action- The difference between recklessness and worth-it risk- How to turn rejection into resilience- Why boldness is a habit, not a personality trait- The “front row” mindset and how to build one- The connection between belonging and courage- Lessons from high-pressure moments in sports and broadcasting- And other topics…Anne Marie Anderson is a keynote speaker, leadership coach, and former ESPN broadcaster. She’s the author of Cultivating Audacity: Dismantle Doubt and Let Yourself Win. Anne helps individuals and teams build confidence, take bold risks, and lead with authenticity. Through her 25+ year career in sports media and performance coaching, she has worked in over 80 countries and brings deep experience in high-stakes communication and personal growth.Resources Mentioned:Cultivating Audacity, by Anne Marie Anderson: https://cultivatingaudacity.comLimitless, by Laura Gassner Otting: https://www.amazon.com/Limitless-Ignore-Everybody-Carve-your/dp/1940858763Connect with Anne:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anne-marie-anderson-3557ab39/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/annemarieandersontv/Website: https://annemarieanderson.comWork with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

When we talk about what makes a great leader, we tend to focus on confidence, decisiveness, and maybe even charisma. Less often do we talk about humility. And yet, humility, according to psychologist Dr. Simon Moss, may be the trait that unlocks the most growth, resilience, collaboration, and trust. In this episode, Dart and Simon talk about why humility isn’t the opposite of confidence, how future clarity increases self-awareness, and how organizations can be structured to reward groundedness instead of ego.  Dr. Simon Moss is a psychologist and Dean of Graduate Research at the University of Wollongong. His research focuses on workplace behavior, ethical leadership, and the psychological conditions that promote wellbeing, performance, and integrity at work.In this episode, Dart and Simon discuss:- The difference between humility and insecurity- Why humble leaders often drive stronger performance- How clarity about the future shapes grounded leadership- The cultural conditions that reward narcissism- The relationship between time pressure and defensiveness- How to design humility into hiring, leadership, and culture- The mission of Radical Humility- And other topics…Dr. Simon Moss is a registered psychologist and the Dean of Graduate Research at the University of Wollongong. His research focuses on how organizational and government policies impact individual wellbeing, progress, and innovation. He has authored approximately 10 books and over 100 peer-reviewed papers, with a focus on workplace behavior, ethical leadership, and emotional intelligence.Simon is the founder of Radical Humility, a research initiative aimed at reducing narcissism in leadership and helping organizations cultivate grounded, human-centered cultures. His books include The Negative Side of Positive Thinking, Where Should I Work? and Emotional Intelligence: Journey to the Source.Resources Mentioned:Radical Humility: https://radical-humility.comConnect with Simon:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-moss-5334944/Email: simon_moss@uow.edu.au  Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Oscar Trimboli has spent his life helping people hear what’s not being said. As a listening expert and advisor to some of the world’s largest companies, he’s discovered a surprising truth: most of us only catch a fraction of what’s being communicated. We hear the words, but miss the silences, emotion, and meaning beneath them. In this episode, Dart and Oscar explore the five levels of listening, what it takes to make someone feel truly seen, and how listening can be taught, measured, and embedded into teams.Oscar Trimboli is a speaker, leadership coach, and the author of How to Listen. He hosts the Apple award-winning podcast Deep Listening and has worked with clients such as Microsoft, AstraZeneca, and Cisco to improve communication and collaboration through listening.In this episode, Dart and Oscar discuss:- The five levels of listening- What it takes to make someone feel truly seen at work- Why most of us only hear 14% of what someone really means- The link between listening and action- How listening can reduce meetings and increase effectiveness- Why silence is the most powerful listening tool- What metaphors reveal about how people see the world- How to teach listening as a core leadership skill- And other topics…Oscar Trimboli is a speaker, author, and host of the Deep Listening podcast. His mission is to create 100 million deep listeners in the workplace. He’s advised organizations including Microsoft, AstraZeneca, and HSBC on how to listen beyond the words and build cultures of understanding. His latest book, How to Listen, explores the science and practice of listening well—and why most of us do far less of it than we think.Resources Mentioned:How to Listen, by Oscar Trimboli: https://www.amazon.com/How-Listen-Discover-Hidden-Communication/dp/1774581914The Deep Listening Podcast: https://www.oscartrimboli.com/podcast/Listening Quiz (Discover your listening barriers): https://www.listeningquiz.comUnreasonable Hospitality, by Will Guidara: https://www.amazon.com/Unreasonable-Hospitality-author/dp/1529146828Don't Think of an Elephant! by George Lakoff, Howard Dean, & Don Hazen: https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Think-Elephant-Values-Politics/dp/1931498717Connect with Oscar:Website: https://www.oscartrimboli.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oscartrimboli Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

What do the drafters of the U.S. Constitution, 19th-century industrialists, and a modern defense contractor have in common? According to economic sociologist Joseph Blasi, they all believed in one powerful idea: that democracy itself depends on ownership, and that ownership should be broadly shared. He argues that if we want work to truly work for humans, we need to think beyond job design to a more fundamental question: Who owns the value that work creates? In this episode, Dart and Joe tell the story of shared ownership, from 1700s fishing crews and America’s founding ideals to an $8 billion worker-owned defense contractor, and what it means for the future of work.Joseph Blasi is a Distinguished Professor at the Rutgers School of Management and Labor Relations, where he studies the economic sociology of corporations, governance, and the workplace. He is director of the Institute for the Study of Employee Ownership and Profit Sharing and co-author of The Citizen’s Share.In this episode, Dart and Joe discuss:- How democracy depends on shared ownership- The surprising history of profit-sharing on cod fishing ships- How early U.S. policies supported worker ownership- Why ESOPs work and where they fall short- The role of tax policy in spreading employee ownership- What the founders envisioned for property and citizenship- How wealth distribution shapes democratic institutions- Does America have enough ownership to sustain democracy?- And other topics...Joseph Blasi is a Distinguished Professor at the School of Management and Labor Relations at Rutgers University. He directs the Institute for the Study of Employee Ownership and Profit Sharing and is a leading scholar in the economic sociology of corporations and the future of work. He is the co-author of several books, including The Citizen’s Share, Shared Capitalism at Work, and In the Company of Owners. His research has shaped public policy on employee ownership and equity compensation in the U.S. and internationally.Resources Mentioned:The Citizen's Share: Reducing Inequality in the 21st Century, by Joseph R. Blasi, Richard B. Freeman, and Douglas L. Kruse: https://www.amazon.com/Citizens-Share-Reducing-Inequality-Century/dp/0300209339Rutgers Institute for the Study of Employee Ownership and Profit Sharing: https://smlr.rutgers.edu/content/institute-study-employee-ownership-and-profit-sharingESOP Association: https://www.esopassociation.org/Connect with Joseph:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-blasi-870102111/Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

From an early age, John Truby knew that stories are not just something that happens on a page. Story is all around us. It structures how we interpret events, and even how we decide how to live.  For John, story forms explain the way the world works.John is a screenwriter and the founder and director of Truby’s Writers Studio in Los Angeles, where he teaches novelists, screenwriters and TV writers the deep secrets of what makes a great story. His students have generated more than fifteen billion dollars at the box office, and studios like Sony Pictures, Disney, Fox, HBO and AMC routinely consult John on how to improve the stories they tell.In this replay episode, Dart and John discuss:- The 14 genres that categorize everyday life- Which genres produce the most fulfilling work- Sales as an action story- Business Analysis as detective story- Corporate culture as western - Career as coming of age and memoir- How the horror genre lurks in the shadows around every layoff- And more…John Truby is a screenwriter, director, screenwriting teacher, author, and Hollywood consultant for studios such as Disney, Sony Pictures, Fox, HBO, and AMC. He is the founder and director of Truby’s Writers Studio and has worked on over 1,000 film scripts over the last 30 years.John created his 22-step outline for storytelling in his first book, The Anatomy of Story, teaching his techniques through global masterclasses to over 50,000 students worldwide since the start of his career. His latest book, The Anatomy of Genres, was released in 2022.Resources Mentioned:The Anatomy of Genres, by Jon Truby: https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Genres-Story-Forms-Explain/dp/0374539227The Anatomy of Criticism, by Northrop Frye https://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Criticism-Essays-Princeton-Classics/dp/0691202567Winning on Purpose, by Fred Reichheld: https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Purpose-Unbeatable-Strategy-Customers/dp/B09PC69XV3The Complete Aubrey/Maturin Novels, by Patrick O’Brian: https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Aubrey-Maturin-Novels-volumes/dp/039306011XCinema Paradiso (film), 1988Master and Commander (film), 2003Shane (film), 1953Glengarry Glen Ross (play), by David MametWorld Experience Organization: https://worldxo.org/Connect with John:Website: www.truby.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/johntrubyWork with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Nick Romeo, a journalist featured in The New Yorker and author of 'The Alternative: How to Build a Just Economy', shares compelling insights on transforming our economic landscape. He discusses the urgent need for a new definition of living wage and the power of cooperative ownership models. Romeo critiques traditional economics for oversimplifying human needs and explores innovative gig work solutions that prioritize fairness. The conversation also highlights sustainable business practices and the potential of collaborative ownership in reshaping societal norms.

Elizabeth Anderson, a political philosopher focused on democracy and economic justice, joins Dart Lindsley to discuss the evolution of the work ethic. They explore how historical thinkers like Adam Smith and Karl Marx shaped labor principles that promote dignity and equality. The conversation critiques the neoliberal shift that has concentrated corporate power and suppressed wages. They also highlight the importance of worker protections and the ongoing struggle for gender equality within the workplace, emphasizing the need to reclaim work as a source of fairness and dignity.

In this engaging discussion, Elizabeth Anderson, a renowned professor from the University of Michigan, dives deep into the evolution of the work ethic from a moral principle to a tool for social control. She examines how historical figures like Malthus influenced damaging views on poverty and labor. The conversation highlights the stark contrast between work as a source of dignity versus a means of discipline. Anderson also reveals the dark legacy of the Irish Potato Famine, tracing its connections to contemporary welfare policies and societal attitudes toward the poor.