Sean Carroll's Mindscape: Science, Society, Philosophy, Culture, Arts, and Ideas

312 | Thomas Levenson on the Mutual History of Humans and Germs

Apr 21, 2025

In this enlightening conversation, Thomas Levenson, a science writing professor at MIT, dives into the captivating journey of germ theory. He discusses how early microscopists like Anton van Leeuwenhoek laid the groundwork for modern microbiology, despite societal skepticism. The shift from miasmas to microbes in understanding disease is fascinating, especially in light of historical events like the Great Plague. Levenson also highlights the critical role of scientists like Semmelweis, and the ongoing public health challenges we face today in managing infectious diseases.

01:31:28

Episode guests

Thomas Levenson

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Quick takeaways

The evolution of germ theory transformed public health by shifting beliefs from abstract humors to specific microbes as disease causative agents.

The groundbreaking discovery of microorganisms by Antonie van Leeuwenhoek marked a pivotal moment in science, leading to new insights into infectious diseases.

Historical resistance to scientific advancements, including germ theory and vaccination, illustrates the tension between innovative ideas and entrenched societal beliefs.

Deep dives

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Intro

2min

The Human-Germ Connection

21min

The Evolution of Medical Theories and the Recognition of Germs

5min

From Miasmas to Microbes: The Evolution of Disease Understanding

16min

Navigating Therapy and History: The Cost of Well-being and the Evolution of Microbiology

2min

The Historical Journey of Childbed Fever

14min

The Pioneering Insights of Semmelweis and the Fight Against Infection

4min

Microbes, Misconceptions, and Milestones

16min

The Art of Science Communication

15min

10.

Politics, Trust, and the Consequences of Outsourced Knowledge

3min

The germ theory of disease is a crowning achievement of science, up there with modern physics, continental drift, and evolution via natural selection. (Even if there will always be cranky skeptics.) But the road to widespread acceptance isn't always an easy one. Why did it take so long between Anton van Leeuwenhoek seeing "animalcules" in a microscope (1670s) to Louis Pasteur's work on pasteurization and vaccination (1860's)? Thomas Levenson is the author of a new book exploring this fascinating history: So Very Small: How Humans Discovered the Microcosmos, Defeated Germs--and May Still Lose the War Against Infectious Disease.

Blog post with transcript: https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2025/04/21/episode-312-thomas-levenson-on-the-mutual-history-of-humans-and-germs/

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Thomas Levenson received a B.A. in East Asian Studies from Harvard University. He is currently Professor of Science Writing and director of the graduate program in science writing at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He is the author of numerous books and has written and produced a number of science documentaries for television.

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