The Exit Five CMO Podcast (Hosted by Dave Gerhardt)

Research-First CRO: How Data Leads to Better Marketing Decisions with Haley Carpenter

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Sep 15, 2025

Haley Carpenter, founder of Chirpy, shares her expertise in conversion rate optimization. She discusses how CRO goes beyond A/B testing, emphasizing the need for research to guide decisions. Learn how to implement effective strategies even with limited traffic and the importance of messaging and social proof in boosting conversions. Haley also highlights common pitfalls in B2B marketing and reveals surprising test results that significantly improved sales. Her insights provide a practical roadmap for marketers looking to foster a culture of testing and data-driven decision-making.

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INSIGHT

Research Before Testing

CRO is research plus testing; research must guide testing decisions.
Quantitative data shows what, qualitative reveals why, and both are needed.

ADVICE

Let Data Decide Where To Test

Prioritize testing locations using traffic and conversion data to calculate feasibility.
Let pre-test calculations determine where, what, and how long you can run experiments.

ADVICE

Test Differently With Low Traffic

If you lack traffic for A/B tests, run user and preference tests to get directional, significant data.
Use targeted qualitative research with real customers instead of guessing.

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#281 CRO | Matt is joined by Haley Carpenter, founder of Chirpy, a conversion rate optimization agency. Haley has nearly a decade of CRO experience across agency, SaaS, and eCommerce, and she’s known for helping brands use research and testing to make smarter marketing decisions.

Matt and Haley cover:

Why CRO isn’t just A/B testing, and how research should guide every optimization effort
How to approach CRO when you don’t have massive website traffic, including scrappy testing methods and tools
The role of messaging, value props, and social proof in driving higher conversions (and where B2B often lags behind DTC)

By the end, you’ll have a clearer picture of how to approach CRO as a system, not just a set of tests.

Timestamps

(00:00) - – Intro
(02:09) - – Who is Haley Carpenter
(03:09) - – What CRO really means
(06:09) - – Research vs. testing explained
(10:09) - – Where to start CRO on a website
(13:09) - – Testing with limited traffic
(17:09) - – Using data for smarter decisions
(20:09) - – Building a culture of testing
(24:09) - – How to report CRO results
(29:09) - – Scrappy tools: Clarity & Hotjar
(34:54) - – What B2B can learn from DTC
(38:54) - – Why messaging matters more than features
(42:54) - – The power of social proof
(48:54) - – Common blockers to CRO success
(50:54) - – A surprising test result (+7% sales)
(52:54) - – Vanity metrics vs. real business outcomes
(56:54) - – Closing thoughts

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