Dolly Chugh, a professor at NYU Stern and author of "A More Just Future," delves into the complexities of being a patriotic citizen while acknowledging historical injustices. She discusses the 'patriot's dilemma' and concepts like home team bias and belief grief. The conversation emphasizes the 'paradox mindset,' encouraging listeners to embrace complexity in their beliefs and relationships. Chugh also challenges traditional narratives, urging us to rethink historical figures like Rosa Parks and advocate for a more just future.
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Little House on the Prairie
Dolly Chugh's family read the "Little House on the Prairie" series and visited historical sites.
This experience made her question the narrative and whose land it was originally.
insights INSIGHT
Home Team Bias
The "home team bias" affects how we interpret events, favoring our own group's perspective.
This bias influences our understanding of history, particularly our country's past.
volunteer_activism ADVICE
Think Like a Historiographer
Adopt a "historiographer" mindset: question narratives and consider missing perspectives.
Ask yourself, "Who served me this narrative, and what might be missing?"
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This book contains a list of 110 rules that George Washington copied from a French etiquette manual written by Jesuits in 1595. The rules, translated into English by Francis Hawkins in 1640, cover various aspects of social behavior, including respect for others, proper conduct in company, and general courtesies. These rules were influential in shaping Washington's character and behavior throughout his life, and they remain relevant today as a guide to respectful and considerate behavior.
Little House on the Prairie
Laura Ingalls Wilder
The Little House on the Prairie series consists of nine novels that follow the life of Laura Ingalls Wilder from her childhood in the Big Woods of Wisconsin to her adulthood in the Dakota Territory. The books chronicle the Ingalls family's experiences, including their moves to various parts of the American frontier, their struggles with disease and natural disasters, and their daily life as pioneers. The series includes titles such as 'Little House in the Big Woods,' 'Little House on the Prairie,' 'On the Banks of Plum Creek,' 'By the Shores of Silver Lake,' 'The Long Winter,' 'Little Town on the Prairie,' 'These Happy Golden Years,' and 'Farmer Boy,' which is about Almanzo Wilder, Laura's future husband.
10% Happier
Dan Harris
In '10% Happier,' Dan Harris shares his personal journey of discovering the benefits of meditation. Initially a skeptic, Harris, a news anchor, found himself on a path of self-discovery after a nationally televised panic attack. He delves into the world of spirituality and self-help, encountering various figures including brain scientists, CEOs, and spiritual leaders. The book explores how meditation can reduce stress, improve focus, and enhance overall well-being without compromising one's ambition or edge. Harris emphasizes the importance of mindfulness in making one more resilient and better equipped to handle life's challenges, though it does not eliminate problems entirely[2][4][5].
Caste
The Origins of Our Discontents
Antonio Francisco Rodríguez Esteban
Isabel Wilkerson
In this book, Isabel Wilkerson argues that racism in the United States is part of a broader caste system—a society-wide system of social stratification characterized by hierarchy, inclusion, and exclusion. She defines eight pillars that underlie caste systems across civilizations, including divine will, heredity, and dehumanization. Wilkerson uses historical documentation, insightful analogies, and powerful anecdotes to illustrate how this caste system permeates American society, affecting people's lives and behavior. The book also explores the consequences of caste and the possibility of a world without it, emphasizing the need for collective effort to dismantle such systems.
The person you mean to be
Dolly Chugh
This book offers practical tools to confront difficult issues like sexism, racism, and inequality, helping readers become better allies by acknowledging and addressing their own biases. It emphasizes the importance of a growth mindset in becoming a 'good-ish' person who continuously strives for improvement.
New episodes come out every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday for free, with 1-week early access for Wondery+ subscribers.
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The human animal doesn’t love paradox. We love a clear, simple story. Us versus them. Good versus evil. But life is rarely like that. This is especially true when it comes to wrestling with history. Our guest today calls it the patriot’s dilemma. How do you love your country while also acknowledging the painful and horrifying stuff that has happened in the past?
Dolly Chugh is a professor at the New York University Stern School of Business where she teaches MBA courses in leadership and management. This is her second time on the show. The last time she came on, she spoke about the concept of being “good-ish.” One of the reasons we get defensive when people criticize us is that we feel like it’s a threat to our precious notion of being a good person. But if you have a good-ish mindset, then there’s always room to grow. Her new book, A More Just Future, encourages us to do that for America.
Content Warning: This episode includes brief mentions of slavery and violence.
In this episode, we talked about:
Why Dolly was scared to write this book
What the home team bias is and how it shows up when we think about our past
10% Happier with Dan Harris 
