Ep228: Dzogchen & Dark Retreat - Dr Nida Chenagtsang & Justin Von Bujdoss
Nov 17, 2023
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Dr Nida Chenagtsang, a Buddhist teacher and doctor of Tibetan Medicine, and Justin Von Bujdoss, an author and Buddhist teacher, discuss the esoteric Dzogchen practices of trekchö and tögal, as well as the mysterious practice of dark retreat. They delve into the history, dangers, and potential benefits of dark retreat and explore themes of fixation, nationalism, translation, and spiritual trauma. The podcast covers topics such as the unique energy of Bhutan, the importance of using Sanskrit and Tibetan words, and the transformative experience of dark retreat.
Dark retreat is a powerful experiential meditation practice in the Buddhist tradition.
Different traditions have different views on how to approach visions encountered during dark retreat.
A solid foundation in spiritual practice is crucial, built through practices like mantra recitation and taking refuge in the Triple Gem.
Finding a balanced approach in spiritual practice, avoiding rushing or stagnation, and addressing spiritual traumas with compassion.
Deep dives
Overview of Dark Retreat Practice
Dark retreat is a practice that involves sealing oneself in complete darkness for a period of time. It is considered one of the most experiential meditations in the Buddhist tradition. The practice aims to provide direct experiences rather than relying on visualizations or imaginations. Dark retreat has a long history, with different lineages and traditions offering variations of the practice. It is believed to bring about transformative experiences and deep insights. The practice involves specific techniques and steps that can be performed for different durations, ranging from seven days to 49 days or longer, depending on the practitioner's capacity and intentions.
Dr. Nida's Experience and Insights
Dr. Nida Chenak-Tak, a renowned teacher, has personally undergone dark retreat practice. He shared his own experience of being in a dark retreat for six months at the age of 15 or 16. Initially bored, he soon started having vivid visions and lost sense of time. His master instructed him to come out after the six months, but he didn't want to leave as he was enjoying the experience. Dr. Nida's teacher emphasized the essential nature of the practice, empowering students to recognize the nature of their mind and the visions they may encounter during the retreat. He also stressed the impermanence of everything, including one's attachments and the importance of practicing in the present moment.
Different Views on Dark Retreat
There are different views on dark retreat practice within different traditions. Some emphasize recognizing visions as empty forms and not getting attached or following them too deeply. Other traditions encourage practitioners to engage with the visions and see through their illusory nature. Dr. Nida points out that Yuthok Ndenpo's dark retreat teachings incorporate elements of both views. His teachings are rooted in a non-sectarian approach, encompassing various practices and traditions. The depth and transformative nature of dark retreat make it a powerful practice for those who are ready to engage with it.
Personal Experiences and Journey
Both Dr. Nida and the summary writer have personal experiences and connections to dark retreat practice. Although the document does not provide extensive details, it mentions that the summary writer is related to Dr. Nida's teacher through their shared lineage. The summary writer also mentions receiving teachings from their teacher, who emphasized the experiential aspect of dark retreat and shared insights on impermanence and the nature of mind. This personal connection adds another layer of understanding and authenticity to the overall summary.
The importance of a stable foundation in spiritual practice
It is crucial for practitioners to have a solid foundation in their spiritual practice. This foundation is shaped by practices such as mantra recitation (mundro), which helps to establish a clear direction and understanding of the path. The mantra practice builds discipline, cultivates a strong connection with oneself, and helps in purifying negative karma and traumas. Taking refuge in the Triple Gem (Buddha, Dharma, Sangha) helps practitioners find stability and trust in their path. The Four Immeasurables (loving-kindness, compassion, joy, equanimity) foster a sense of human connection and remind us of our basic nature. The practice of Vajrasattva purifies and works on oneself, addressing negative accumulations and traumas. Through these practices, a practitioner can cultivate a healthy and stable foundation for their spiritual journey.
Finding a balance between rushing and stagnation
There are two common extremes in spiritual practice - the rush to progress quickly and the lack of energy or stagnant practice. The first extreme involves a desperate pursuit of enlightenment, constantly seeking the next practice or initiation. The second extreme is seen in those who become stuck in their practice and go through the motions without real energy or growth. It is important to find a balanced approach. Self-reflection and introspection are key, asking oneself why there is a rush or a lack of progress. Cultivating patience and listening to oneself can help course correct and find a more sustainable and nourishing approach to practice.
Recognizing and addressing spiritual traumas
For some practitioners, spiritual practice can bring about traumas or disappointments. This can be seen in instances where individuals feel pressured or discouraged when they are unable to complete certain practices or receive certain teachings. Spiritual traumas are not uncommon, and it's crucial to address these issues with compassion and understanding. Communication between teachers and students is important in finding a balanced approach that addresses the needs and readiness of each individual. A focus on self-improvement, working on oneself, and a mix of introspection, practice, and guidance can help navigate and heal spiritual traumas.
The value of clarity and balance in spiritual practice
Clarity and balance are essential in spiritual practice. Practitioners must have a clear direction and understanding of their path, while also finding a balance between eagerness and humility. It is important to listen to oneself, ask questions, and engage in introspection to find a more authentic and sustainable approach to practice. While spiritual growth is important, it is equally important to work on oneself, address traumas, and find stability and balance in all aspects of life. With clarity and balance, practitioners can cultivate a healthy and transformative spiritual journey.
In this interview I am joined by Buddhist teacher and doctor of Tibetan Medicine Dr Nida Chenagtsang and author and Buddhist teacher Justin Von Bujdoss.
Dr Nida and Justin discuss the esoteric Dzogchen practices of trekchö and tögal, and comment on their application to inner emotional disturbance and to times of external conflict and war.
Dr Nida and Justin extensively discuss the mysterious practice of dark retreat, in which the retreatant seals himself in complete darkness for days or weeks at a time, triggering powerful hallucinations which can be worked with using special techniques for spiritual advancement.
Dr Nida and Justin discuss the history of dark retreat, compares the differences in the various schools of its practice, warns of its dangers in terms of psychosis, and considers the potential it offers for attaining Buddhist enlightenment.
Dr Nida and Justin also explore themes of fixation, nationalism, translation, and spiritual trauma.
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Video version: https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep228-dzogchen-dark-retreat-dr-nida-chenagtsang-and-justin-von-bujdoss
Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
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Topics include:
00:00 - Intro
01:01 - Geomantic energy of Bhutan
03:55 - The Dzogchen practice of trekchö
05:02 - Cutting through hardness
07:53 - The importance of using Sanskrit and Tibetan words
08:18 - The hardness of conceptual thinking
08:47 - Translating trekchö
09:45 - Dr Nida’s new approach to translation
11:54 - Dharma as medicine
12:27 - Freeing difficult emotions
14:24 - Palestine and political polarisation
17:29 - The pressure to take sides
21:10 - Meditation as medicine
21:33 - Bringing dharma experience to politics
25:09 - The value of softness and passivity
26:10 - Nationalism and fixation
28:09 - The price of enlightened politics
30:27 - Ashoka’s dharma reign
32:47 - Dr Nida’s new book about Yuthok’s Mahāmudrā
35:00 - Varieties of Dzogchen tögal practice
37:42 - The history of dark retreat
45:01 - Nyingma vs Kālachakra dark retreat versions
47:35 - Transforming energy and perception
49:57 - Yuthok and other dark retreat yogis
52:40 - Special characteristics of dark retreat
53:51 - The actual practice
55:07 - Dr Nida’s remarkable dark retreat teacher
01:00:29 - How Dr Nida’s teacher introduced him to the nature of mind
01:09:18 - The signs of success in practice
01:09:42 - The mystical story of Dr Nida and Justin’s karmic connection
01:17:21 - Mahasiddha way vs the educational path
01:20:19 - Side-effects of meditation and dark retreat
01:28:04 - Fun vs beneficial
01:29:48 - Requirements for a dark retreat location
01:30:47 - Dark retreat psychosis
01:35:01 - The need for financial support
01:36:43 - When to break your retreat
01:38:07 - Looking for experiences
01:42:43 - Dr Nida’s recent lucid dream
01:44:23 - Hallucinations and visions
01:47:59 - How to get involved
01:49:51 - Multi-cultural enlightenment
01:52:51 - How did Dr Nida assess Justin’s readiness for dark retreat
01:55:34 - Dark retreat progression
02:03:54 - The power of ngondro
02:04:34 - ‘Spiritual not religious’
02:13:48 - Spiritual trauma
02:16:14 - Why Dr Nida wrote his book in Tibetan
02:19:07 - Questions for the practitioner
02:21:42 - Bad spiritual pedagogy
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Previous episodes with Dr Nida Chenagtsang:
- https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=nida
Previous episode with Justin Von Bujdoss:
- https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=justin
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To find our more about Justin Von Bujdoss, visit:
- https://justinvonbujdoss.com/
- https://www.yangtiyoga.com/
To find out more about Dr Nida Chenagtsang, visit:
- https://www.facebook.com/DoctorNida/
- http://www.skypressbooks.com/
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For more interviews, videos, and more visit:
- www.guruviking.com
Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James
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